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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Sports Discussion Boards => Topic started by: Fury on July 16, 2008, 12:55:01 PM
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Paplefag tells everyone that can hear that he thinks he should close the all-star game. So to prove this, he goes out and blows the lead in the eighth while needing Mo to come in and pitch two perfect innings. Way to go Paps!!!! ::)
Now he's crying about "supposed" threats against his wife.
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Paplefag tells everyone that can hear that he thinks he should close the all-star game. So to prove this, he goes out and blows the lead in the eighth while needing Mo to come in and pitch two perfect innings. Way to go Paps!!!! ::)
Now he's crying about "supposed" threats against his wife.
Man, you really have an inferiority complex! The death threats prolly stem fom the fact that the Yankees have been sub par for years! ;) I suspect the fans in NYC are growing a bit tiresome of it.
Man, to bad pap had an off night last night.....Oh well, he pitches best in the playoffs and the worlds series. I'm sure mo watches him from the couch at home, wondering why he had to give up so many runs when it counted most.
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I'm sure mo watches him from the couch at home, wondering why he had to give up so many runs when it counted most.
Yeah, he's been horrible.
10 ER in 117.2 IP for a post season era of 0.77 - It only makes him the best ever. Papelbon nowhere near Rivera's leage career wise.
He bought all this recent animosity on himself with his stupid comments. Why do you think he started backpeddling at the end of the day? I'm sure Francona spoke with him.
Even most of the posters at SoSH couldn't defend him on this latest round of Papelbonian crap. He's a guy you can only like if he's on your team.
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Yeah, he's been horrible.
10 ER in 117.2 IP for a post season era of 0.77 - It only makes him the best ever. Papelbon nowhere near Rivera's leage career wise.
He bought all this recent animosity on himself with his stupid comments. Why do you think he started backpeddling at the end of the day? I'm sure Francona spoke with him.
Even most of the posters at SoSH couldn't defend him on this latest round of Papelbonian crap. He's a guy you can only like if he's on your team.
What inferiority complex? Mo has easily been the best pitcher in baseball in the first half. The guy's on pace to seriously be a contender for the Cy Young if he keeps it up. Papelbon popping his mouth off like he deserved the start was hilarious. He showed just how good he was by blowing the lead in the eighth and needing Mo to come in and clean up his mess.
And they're "supposedly" death threats. No proof whatsoever. Moron's talking about wanting bullet proof glass in his car, hahahaha! ::)
Mariano is the best closer to ever play the game. Papelbon couldn't even hold a candle to him.
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Yeah, he's been horrible.
10 ER in 117.2 IP for a post season era of 0.77 - It only makes him the best ever. Papelbon nowhere near Rivera's leage career wise.
He bought all this recent animosity on himself with his stupid comments. Why do you think he started backpeddling at the end of the day? I'm sure Francona spoke with him.
Even most of the posters at SoSH couldn't defend him on this latest round of Papelbonian crap. He's a guy you can only like if he's on your team.
Rivera has been part responsible for a lot of the Yankees recent chocks. It's obvious you spend a lot of time on scouting sites, and regurgitate what the state men post ( not an insult, you are a state gay and thats cool). As for as dumb comments, and idiot players, I think the Yankees have that covered ( steroids, arod, Hanks dumb comments etc etc). I'm not trying to defend Pap's comments. I don't really care....The kids a beast, he's emotional, and I wouldn't want anyone else on the mound when all the marbles are on the table. I'm not concerned if he is well liked by rival fans. The kid made a stupid comment, a yankees fan should know all about that.
Nothing you say is going to change the fact that Pap is a premier closer, and he has been since he came in the league. Again, stats are great, but give me a call when the Yanks do something with all those great numbers. I would take Paplebon in a big game over Rivera, recent history in big games suggests that would be the logical choice.
I'm not bashing Mo, I'm not saying he is not the greatest closer ever, but at this stage is his career I take Paplebon over Rivera. Just because Pap had a rough couple of starts does not erase how dominant he is, and the things he has accomplished.
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What inferiority complex? Mo has easily been the best pitcher in baseball in the first half. The guy's on pace to seriously be a contender for the Cy Young if he keeps it up. Papelbon popping his mouth off like he deserved the start was hilarious. He showed just how good he was by blowing the lead in the eighth and needing Mo to come in and clean up his mess.
And they're "supposedly" death threats. No proof whatsoever. Moron's talking about wanting bullet proof glass in his car, hahahaha! ::)
Mariano is the best closer to ever play the game. Papelbon couldn't even hold a candle to him.
Ha - ha, are you saying Paplebon is not a premier closer? That's so dumb I'm not even going to waste my time. I hope the sand man wins the Cy Young, he can mount it on his wall when he's back home in late October.
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Ha - ha, are you saying Paplebon is not a premier closer? That's so dumb I'm not even going to waste my time. I hope the sand man wins the Cy Young, he can mount it on his wall when he's back home in late October.
Paplebon's a premier closer but you trying to put him on par with Mo is hilarious. How old is Mo now and how old is Paplebon? Become a dynasty, dominate for the better part of 2 decades and establish yourself as the greatest closer to ever play the game and then maybe he can talk like he's better than Mo, especially considering Mo has better numbers this year, AND he didn't shit the bed in the all-star game. Who had to clean up who's mess last night? Oh that's right, Paplebon was the fag who blew a one run lead in the eighth and Mo was the guy who pitched two perfect innings. :D
Guy has two good seasons and you're ready to put him on Mo's level. Not that I'm surprised, you Red Sux fans do it with everything. Your 7 world series to our 26. Our dozens upon dozens of legendary players to your Ted Williams, etc....
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Paplebon's a premier closer but you trying to put him on par with Mo is hilarious. How old is Mo now and how old is Paplebon? Become a dynasty, dominate for the better part of 2 decades and establish yourself as the greatest closer to ever play the game and then maybe he can talk like he's better than Mo, especially considering Mo has better numbers this year, AND he didn't shit the bed in the all-star game. Who had to clean up who's mess last night? Oh that's right, Paplebon was the fag who blew a one run lead in the eighth and Mo was the guy who pitched two perfect innings. :D
Guy has two good seasons and you're ready to put him on Mo's level. Not that I'm surprised, you Red Sux fans do it with everything. Your 7 world series to our 26. Our dozens upon dozens of legendary players to your Ted Williams, etc....
I never said Pap was better ALL TIME than Mo. I said at this stage in Mo's career, I would take Pap. Mo is the greatest closer ever, but he is not as dominant as he used to be. I don't get why you are basing one bad outing from Pap ( in an all star game) and claiming thats the norm. It's not, did you watch the playoffs / world series last year? How did Pap do on the biggest stage. How has he been over his career? That logic is not how you access players, and you know it.
I guess you guys didn't get the sarcasm in my first post......I was fucking with you ( just like you fuck with me). It's all in good fun.
Haha, now your telling me the sox didn't have a ton of legendary players? You must be really upset over the current state of the yankees.
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I never said Pap was better ALL TIME than Mo. I said at this stage in Mo's career, I would take Pap. Mo is the greatest closer ever, but he is not as dominant as he used to be. I don't get why you are basing one bad outing from Pap ( in an all star game) and claiming thats the norm. It's not, did you watch the playoffs / world series last year? How did Pap do on the biggest stage. How has he been over his career? That logic is not how you access players, and you know it.
I hate to break it to you, but Mo has been a better pitcher than Pap this season.
Mo is 38 YEARS OLD, has a 1.06 ERA, 23 saves, 50 strikeouts and a 0.64 WHIP.
Pap is 27 YEARS OLD, has a 2.43 ERA, 28 saves, 51 strikeouts and a 0.96 WHIP.
Mo is 11 years older than Pap and he's still pitching better than him. Pap's good, but Mariano Rivera he is not. I'm not even going to get into the fact that Mo is the greatest postseason closer of all the time. Cut the guy some slack, he's 38 years old and still pitching better than 100% of the closers in baseball, including Pap.
Not to mention Paplefag decided he'd rant and rave about how he felt he should close in the last all-star game at the house that Ruth built. and what does he do? He fucking blows it. Way to go douche, you went to great lengths to prove how much you really didn't deserve to close that.
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Rivera has been part responsible for a lot of the Yankees recent chocks. It's obvious you spend a lot of time on scouting sites, and regurgitate what the state men post ( not an insult, you are a state gay and thats cool). As for as dumb comments, and idiot players, I think the Yankees have that covered ( steroids, arod, Hanks dumb comments etc etc). I'm not trying to defend Pap's comments. I don't really care....The kids a beast, he's emotional, and I wouldn't want anyone else on the mound when all the marbles are on the table. I'm not concerned if he is well liked by rival fans. The kid made a stupid comment, a yankees fan should know all about that.
I'm going to assume you meant stat GUY. ;D (I hope).
Recent chokes? Rivera blew one postseason save in 2004 and has since then has given up only one run in 8.2 postseason innings, not losing any games. Yes, he's had two high profile messups in his career, but that's going to happen when you pitch in 12 straight postseasons containing 117 innnings against the 3 best teams in baseball.
I do follow stasts, but I don't follow them blindly. I use them for balance and to counter statements made by people that just aren't true. My posts arent' regurgitations, just my take on what I read.
Nothing you say is going to change the fact that Pap is a premier closer, and he has been since he came in the league. Again, stats are great, but give me a call when the Yanks do something with all those great numbers. I would take Paplebon in a big game over Rivera, recent history in big games suggests that would be the logical choice.
Never would even think to say Papelbon's not premier, not for a second. The Yankees postseason struggles have had absolutely zero to do with Rivera, and I'd still take him over Papelbon, but it's a matter of choice. The numbers back it up as well, but you can't go wrong with either.
I'm not bashing Mo, I'm not saying he is not the greatest closer ever, but at this stage is his career I take Paplebon over Rivera. Just because Pap had a rough couple of starts does not erase how dominant he is, and the things he has accomplished.
At this stage in his career, Mo's putting up one of the greatest seasons ever. I don't think Papelbon will have anywhere near the longevity, mostly due to style and makeup of his stuff. Mariano's a freak, and someone like him may not happen again. So many closers have done what Papelbon's done over a couple of years, but only a select few go beyond that.
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Not gonna get into the debate about who's better{MO! :D}
The NY Daily News totally turned the interview into a lynching.
Paplebon said that if the game was in Boston he should/would close and that "of course Mariano is gonna close the game" he had also said in another interview that Mo was the "Godfather" of closers.
the reporter just changed the way the interview went to make Paplebon look bad.pretty shitty way to do things if you ask me :-\
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Typical NYC media.....Jealous as the day is long of Bostons success. I would think that reporter will start getting some of his own death threats pretty soon.
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I hate to break it to you, but Mo has been a better pitcher than Pap this season.
Mo is 38 YEARS OLD, has a 1.06 ERA, 23 saves, 50 strikeouts and a 0.64 WHIP.
Pap is 27 YEARS OLD, has a 2.43 ERA, 28 saves, 51 strikeouts and a 0.96 WHIP.
Mo is 11 years older than Pap and he's still pitching better than him. Pap's good, but Mariano Rivera he is not. I'm not even going to get into the fact that Mo is the greatest postseason closer of all the time. Cut the guy some slack, he's 38 years old and still pitching better than 100% of the closers in baseball, including Pap.
Not to mention Paplefag decided he'd rant and rave about how he felt he should close in the last all-star game at the house that Ruth built. and what does he do? He fucking blows it. Way to go douche, you went to great lengths to prove how much you really didn't deserve to close that.
These days - Pap = world series..... Mo = blown leads. Also, Pap has had a FEW rough starts recently that are inflating that era ( right now). Mo's not better. The comments you are talking about where taken slighty out of context. Not that big of a deal imo.
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I'm going to assume you meant stat GUY. ;D (I hope).
Recent chokes? Rivera blew one postseason save in 2004 and has since then has given up only one run in 8.2 postseason innings, not losing any games. Yes, he's had two high profile messups in his career, but that's going to happen when you pitch in 12 straight postseasons containing 117 innnings against the 3 best teams in baseball.
I do follow stasts, but I don't follow them blindly. I use them for balance and to counter statements made by people that just aren't true. My posts arent' regurgitations, just my take on what I read.
Never would even think to say Papelbon's not premier, not for a second. The Yankees postseason struggles have had absolutely zero to do with Rivera, and I'd still take him over Papelbon, but it's a matter of choice. The numbers back it up as well, but you can't go wrong with either.
At this stage in his career, Mo's putting up one of the greatest seasons ever. I don't think Papelbon will have anywhere near the longevity, mostly due to style and makeup of his stuff. Mariano's a freak, and someone like him may not happen again. So many closers have done what Papelbon's done over a couple of years, but only a select few go beyond that.
I'm Going to answer this with bullet points :
Didn't mean to type gay, I meant to type guy. Sorry about that, you know I have a lot of respect for you, and think you are a total class act.
Rivera has not had a ton of innings in the post season recently
I know you follow stats, but sometimes you come at me with the "on paper" and (IMO) that means nothing. I know some of the analysis you post is third party, I can tell by how in depth it is, and how targeted it is in saying ( insert Boston player) is not as good as people say he is. Thats fine.
That cool, I would take Pap over Rivera..... Much rather have Pap closing a huge game, and he has proven he can do it.
Maybe Pap won't have the longevity, maybe he wont compare to Mo in the end, but none of that matters to me, I'm a Boston fan, Pap is a GREAT closer, and IMO he is better than MO at this stage.
So if the sox or the yanks dont win the big one this year, who will?
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These days - Pap = world series..... Mo = blown leads. Also, Pap has had a FEW rough starts recently that are inflating that era ( right now). Mo's not better. The comments you are talking about where taken slighty out of context. Not that big of a deal imo.
How is Mo not better? His stats say he is. And you seem to be ignoring the fact that Mo is 11 years older than Pap.
I will bet on my life that Pap won't be anywhere near Mo's level at 38.
Oh, and rough starts? You mean he's pitching bad? Yup, sounds good. Mo's pitched FLAWLESSLY this year, at 38.
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I'm Going to answer this with bullet points :
Didn't mean to type gay, I meant to type guy. Sorry about that, you know I have a lot of respect for you, and think you are a total class act.
Rivera has not had a ton of innings in the post season recently
I know you follow stats, but sometimes you come at me with the "on paper" and (IMO) that means nothing. I know some of the analysis you post is third party, I can tell by how in depth it is, and how targeted it is in saying ( insert Boston player) is not as good as people say he is. Thats fine.
That cool, I would take Pap over Rivera..... Much rather have Pap closing a huge game, and he has proven he can do it.
Maybe Pap won't have the longevity, maybe he wont compare to Mo in the end, but none of that matters to me, I'm a Boston fan, Pap is a GREAT closer, and IMO he is better than MO at this stage.
So if the sox or the yanks dont win the big one this year, who will?
Oh, I knew you were joking, I just thought it was hilarious.
I agree with you on the "on paper" thing - the end goal is to win the WS, so, if a team does that, it renders all negative numbers for that season useless for that year. The can be used, however, to try to point out future trouble spots.
Rivera's just having a better year right now, in almost every measurable sense. He's not blowing any saves, in fact, he's 23 for 23 right now.
Here's my non statisical observation of Papelbon's recent minor struggles: His put away location is off. Papelbon's M-O seems to be to try to get ahead of hitters, then finish them with a fastball at the shoulders or the split in the dirt. I've been seeing him leave the split high and the fastball low, and it's been getting hit. It was very evident in the ABs of Cano and Gardner in the last Yankee game. He had them both set up the way he wanted but didn't make the signature strikeout pitch.
If the Yanks/Sox don't win who will? Well, to be fair, it's hard for even me to take the Yankees as WS contenders right now, but I'll have a better idea over the next 10 games. That said, I'll say..........LA due to the pitching. Milwaukee is a beast in a short series with CC/Sheets too. I'm also intrigued by Arizona with Webb/Haren, but their offesnse is weak. If the playoffs started today, the favorites would probably be Boston.
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How is Mo not better? His stats say he is. And you seem to be ignoring the fact that Mo is 11 years older than Pap.
I will bet on my life that Pap won't be anywhere near Mo's level at 38.
Oh, and rough starts? You mean he's pitching bad? Yup, sounds good. Mo's pitched FLAWLESSLY this year, at 38.
Mo's not better, because he hasn't pitched well when all the marbles where on the table in a long time. Also, Pap was the better pitcher in 2006 and 2007 (even winning a title). Since Pap came into the league, he has been better than Mo, according to the stats. Lower era, more so's, more saves and he helped his team win a world series. Currently, Pap and Mo's stats are very close, and I could give a shit if a couple of bad starts has Paps era a tad higher. Your ignoring the fact that Pap is a young kid, and talking about how much older Mo is than Pap. Experience means something in this game, and Pap is only going to get better. You act like there is a huge disparity in the stats, not really. One bad game for Mo, and Pap is better. As I said before, The era is the only difference, and a single bad start for Pap raised it a run over Mo's. Are you telling me that if Mo goes out, and has a single bad start, while pap drops his era back to Normal, Mo is all the sudden going to be the worse player? Thats what your argument is saying.
You know for a fact Pap wont be on Mo's level? Lets look at the stats over the first three years of their careers ( pap = bold ):
Saves 0, 35, 37 - 0, 5, 43 Total : 72 - 48
ERA 2.65, 0.98, 1.85 - 5.51, 2.09, 1.88 Total : No idea, but paps is lower.
BOOM ;)
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Mo's not better, because he hasn't pitched well when all the marbles where on the table in a long time.
How can you say this? He hasn't given up an earned run in three postseasons since he gave up ONE in 2004.
2007 was Rivera's worst year, yes, but only when compared to himself.
This year's not that close. Papelbon: 40 IP 11 ER 51K 7 BB Rivera: 42.5 IP 5 ER 50K 4BB
Rivera has more IP, yet less than half the ER, and and less walks. Similar to the argument I made last year when I predicted CC would win the Cy over Beckett.
This is taking nothing away from Papelbon. Mo's first half is just off the charts.
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How can you say this? He hasn't given up an earned run in three postseasons since he gave up ONE in 2004.
2007 was Rivera's worst year, yes, but only when compared to himself.
This year's not that close. Papelbon: 40 IP 11 ER 51K 7 BB Rivera: 42.5 IP 5 ER 50K 4BB
Rivera has more IP, yet less than half the ER, and and less walks. Similar to the argument I made last year when I predicted CC would win the Cy over Beckett.
This is taking nothing away from Papelbon. Mo's first half is just off the charts.
He's a Sox fan. Trying to point out that Mo has been flawless since 2004 is a lost cause with retards like Sux fans. Statistically speaking, Mo is better in nearly every category than Pap this season. This is all being done while Pap is 11 years younger than Mo, which is astounding. The guy is 38 years old and still the most dominant closer in baseball. Will Paplebon be anywhere near that good at 38? I seriously doubt it. And if Mo keeps it up, he'll be winning a Cy Young.
One earned run 4 years ago is enough to say the guy sucks according to Body88. Nevermind the fact that he's making excuses for Paplebon blowing saves recently and shitting the bed in the all-star game. ::)
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He's a Sox fan. Trying to point out that Mo has been flawless since 2004 is a lost cause with retards like Sux fans. Statistically speaking, Mo is better in nearly every category than Pap this season. This is all being done while Pap is 11 years younger than Mo, which is astounding. The guy is 38 years old and still the most dominant closer in baseball. Will Paplebon be anywhere near that good at 38? I seriously doubt it. And if Mo keeps it up, he'll be winning a Cy Young.
One earned run 4 years ago is enough to say the guy sucks according to Body88. Nevermind the fact that he's making excuses for Paplebon blowing saves recently and shitting the bed in the all-star game. ::)
Answer the post below.....Tell me who has been better since Pap started playing as a pro, and who was better over the first three years of their careers. Now don't ignore the question, or start talking shit (to aviod the question).
Mo's not better, because he hasn't pitched well when all the marbles where on the table in a long time. Also, Pap was the better pitcher in 2006 and 2007 (even winning a title). Since Pap came into the league, he has been better than Mo, according to the stats. Lower era, more so's, more saves and he helped his team win a world series. Currently, Pap and Mo's stats are very close, and I could give a shit if a couple of bad starts has Paps era a tad higher. Your ignoring the fact that Pap is a young kid, and talking about how much older Mo is than Pap. Experience means something in this game, and Pap is only going to get better. You act like there is a huge disparity in the stats, not really. One bad game for Mo, and Pap is better. As I said before, The era is the only difference, and a single bad start for Pap raised it a run over Mo's. Are you telling me that if Mo goes out, and has a single bad start, while pap drops his era back to Normal, Mo is all the sudden going to be the worse player? Thats what your argument is saying.
You know for a fact Pap wont be on Mo's level? Lets look at the stats over the first three years of their careers ( pap = bold ):
Saves 0, 35, 37 - 0, 5, 43 Total : 72 - 48
ERA 2.65, 0.98, 1.85 - 5.51, 2.09, 1.88 Total : No idea, but paps is lower.
BOOM ;)
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Typical NYC media.....Jealous as the day is long of Bostons success. I would think that reporter will start getting some of his own death threats pretty soon.
You can't call it jealousy.unfortunately thats how the sports sections here treat EVERY athlete :-\
they will do anything to make headlines and sell papers.
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You can't call it jealousy.unfortunately thats how the sports sections here treat EVERY athlete :-\
they will do anything to make headlines and sell papers.
Can you recount the way that played out. I thought Papelbon made his comments, but backpeddled from them the next day, once it was apparent everyone in the world disagreed with him.
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Can you recount the way that played out. I thought Papelbon made his comments, but backpeddled from them the next day, once it was apparent everyone in the world disagreed with him.
In an article before the News came out he talked about Mo being the "Godfather" of closers and how it was such a thrill to meet him and talk to him the first time he made the all star team.
Papelbon did make the statement that he should start but he backtracked and softened what he said in the same article not the next day.the next day he was trying to find the writer ;)
and don't forget the closer from the Angels said the same as Paplebon but no one said boo about that.
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Not aruging - but do you have links to the articles that said the first part and Rodriguez's comments. I'd honestly just be interested in reading them.
I think Papelbon is a bona fide idiot, but don't want blame him for something he didn't deserve.
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Yes, jealous of Boston's success.
I believe it was a NY team that decimated what all you Boston fags were calling the greatest sports team ever assembled. ;)
And jealous of the Red Sox? Congratulations, only a retard would expect the Yankees to be dominant forever. It's called rebuilding, everyone does it. You know, like the 86 years Boston spent doing it? :D
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Yes, jealous of Boston's success.
I believe it was a NY team that decimated what all you Boston fags were calling the greatest sports team ever assembled. ;)
And jealous of the Red Sox? Congratulations, only a retard would expect the Yankees to be dominant forever. It's called rebuilding, everyone does it. You know, like the 86 years Boston spent doing it? :D
Number of Boston titles in the last 8 years - 7
New York - 1
Also, when are you going to answer this post :
Mo's not better, because he hasn't pitched well when all the marbles where on the table in a long time. Also, Pap was the better pitcher in 2006 and 2007 (even winning a title). Since Pap came into the league, he has been better than Mo, according to the stats. Lower era, more so's, more saves and he helped his team win a world series. Currently, Pap and Mo's stats are very close, and I could give a shit if a couple of bad starts has Paps era a tad higher. Your ignoring the fact that Pap is a young kid, and talking about how much older Mo is than Pap. Experience means something in this game, and Pap is only going to get better. You act like there is a huge disparity in the stats, not really. One bad game for Mo, and Pap is better. As I said before, The era is the only difference, and a single bad start for Pap raised it a run over Mo's. Are you telling me that if Mo goes out, and has a single bad start, while pap drops his era back to Normal, Mo is all the sudden going to be the worse player? Thats what your argument is saying.
You know for a fact Pap wont be on Mo's level? Lets look at the stats over the first three years of their careers ( pap = bold ):
Saves 0, 35, 37 - 0, 5, 43 Total : 72 - 48
ERA 2.65, 0.98, 1.85 - 5.51, 2.09, 1.88 Total : No idea, but paps is lower.
BOOM ;)
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Just out of curiousity are you counting BC or Johnny Ruiz or something, because I'm counting 6 - 3 Pats, 2 sox, 1 Celtics.
Anyway, don't you have to multiply all Pats titles by .2 since they represent Maine, Vermont, NH and Connecticut as well?
That gives boston 4.6 titles, with the BC one.
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Not aruging - but do you have links to the articles that said the first part and Rodriguez's comments. I'd honestly just be interested in reading them.
I think Papelbon is a bona fide idiot, but don't want blame him for something he didn't deserve.
Sorry no links :-\.I read the article in the paper early in the week and threw the paper away.
trust me I'm a die hard Yanks fan and would bash the hell outta Papelbon if he deserved it :)
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Sorry no links :-\.I read the article in the paper early in the week and threw the paper away.
trust me I'm a die hard Yanks fan and would bash the hell outta Papelbon if he deserved it :)
Don't worry, I'm sure you'll get another chance. He's already pressured the sox into giving him more money, and it's only his third year.
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Just out of curiousity are you counting BC or Johnny Ruiz or something, because I'm counting 6 - 3 Pats, 2 sox, 1 Celtics.
Anyway, don't you have to multiply all Pats titles by .2 since they represent Maine, Vermont, NH and Connecticut as well?
That gives boston 4.6 titles, with the BC one.
Yes, I'm counting the BC title, and no I don't have to multiply it, Fury is from CT which has nothing to do with NY. Boston is the largest part of the region that the pats represent, which by default makes the city part of the equation. Also, Boston is the largest major city in the state of MA ( the state where the stadium is located), and where the vast majority of the fans live. For the record, the patriots originated in Boston , and they where called the Boston patriots. The New England name has more to do with land, and capitalizing on the fans north of Boston, that have always rooted for the team.
No matter how you slice it, over the last decade, Boston sports teams have dominated sports.
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Don't worry, I'm sure you'll get another chance. He's already pressured the sox into giving him more money, and it's only his third year.
Why do you care so much? Pap deserves the money he is asking....the kids brash, and thats what makes him so successful. It's not like he doesent deserve the money he is asking, and he wants to play for the sox long term. He wants to set himself up, and he has worked hard to do so. You may hate the guy, but he has been awesome for us here in Boston, and since he came in to the league, a better closer - ( as a whole) than Mo. The laundry list of Yankees buffoons runs long and deep. Who is the player who is in all the headlines these days ( for all the wrong reasons)?
In regards to the article Calvin is talking about, why sidestep your original comments, if Pap was set up to look bad?
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Yes, I'm counting the BC title, and no I don't have to multiply it, Fury is from CT which has nothing to do with NY. Boston is the largest part of the region that the pats represent, which by default makes the city part of the equation. Also, Boston is the largest major city in the state of MA ( the state where the stadium is located), and where the vast majority of the fans live. For the record, the patriots originated in Boston , and they where called the Boston patriots. The New England name has more to do with land, and capitalizing on the fans north of Boston, that have always rooted for the team.
No matter how you slice it, over the last decade, Boston sports teams have dominated sports.
You weren't supposed answer that seriously. On my home message board, we'd be saying you owed me a beer.
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Why do you care so much? Pap deserves the money he is asking....the kids brash, and thats what makes him so successful. It's not like he doesent deserve the money he is asking, and he wants to play for the sox long term. He wants to set himself up, and he has worked hard to do so. You may hate the guy, but he has been awesome for us here in Boston, and since he came in to the league, a better closer - ( as a whole) than Mo. The laundry list of Yankees buffoons runs long and deep. Who is the player who is in all the headlines these days ( for all the wrong reasons)?
In regards to the article Calvin is talking about, why sidestep your original comments, if Pap was set up to look bad?
I don't care for the way Papelbon acts on the field or off the field. After six years of MLB service, good players have all the leverage, and get incredible paydays as either free agents from other teams or their current teams have to open up the wallets. The tradeoff is that they're cost controlled by their teams in the early years. It's a give and take - they get you early on the cheap, and, if you're good, you get the money in your peak years and, often, you get overpaid in your decline. Papelbon (and Pedroia) were already talking "not taking a home town discount" and "setting the market" for their positions when free agency comes. It's arrogant, and, very presumtive. If you heard a Yankee bitching about money and talking about all the money he's going to make in FA in FOUR YEARS you'd think he's a jackass too.
I also hate the fact that every time he blows a save, there's some cosmic reason as to why it happened, like there's no way HE could just possilbly get beat. I've seen quotes like "I just wasn't into it" and "didn't have enough time to warm up". In contrast, when Rivera gets beat he just says he didn't do his job and he'll get them next time.
The guy's been in the league two years and his shoulder fell out in one of them, yet he compares himself to the greatest player there ever was at their position. I've seen many quotes from ballplayers themeselves (Joe Nathan comes to mind) saying that he could use a little humilty.
It has nothing to do with his pitching ability. I'll check the numbers later for his first three years vs. Rivera's but I do remember in 1996 Rivera went 17 innings without giving up a HIT. His IP also dwarfs Papelbon's, but that's just my memory speaking. I have a feeling doing the research will be splitting hairs - meaning there's probably legitimate arguments for both sides.
I asked about the article because if I was wrong and he was set up to look bad, I want to admit my mistake.
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I don't care for the way Papelbon acts on the field or off the field. After six years of MLB service, good players have all the leverage, and get incredible paydays as either free agents from other teams or their current teams have to open up the wallets. The tradeoff is that they're cost controlled by their teams in the early years. It's a give and take - they get you early on the cheap, and, if you're good, you get the money in your peak years and, often, you get overpaid in your decline. Papelbon (and Pedroia) were already talking "not taking a home town discount" and "setting the market" for their positions when free agency comes. It's arrogant, and, very presumtive. If you heard a Yankee bitching about money and talking about all the money he's going to make in FA in FOUR YEARS you'd think he's a jackass too.
I also hate the fact that every time he blows a save, there's some cosmic reason as to why it happened, like there's no way HE could just possilbly get beat. I've seen quotes like "I just wasn't into it" and "didn't have enough time to warm up". In contrast, when Rivera gets beat he just says he didn't do his job and he'll get them next time.
The guy's been in the league two years and his shoulder fell out in one of them, yet he compares himself to the greatest player there ever was at their position. I've seen many quotes from ballplayers themeselves (Joe Nathan comes to mind) saying that he could use a little humilty.
It has nothing to do with his pitching ability. I'll check the numbers later for his first three years vs. Rivera's but I do remember in 1996 Rivera went 17 innings without giving up a HIT. His IP also dwarfs Papelbon's, but that's just my memory speaking. I have a feeling doing the research will be splitting hairs - meaning there's probably legitimate arguments for both sides.
I asked about the article because if I was wrong and he was set up to look bad, I want to admit my mistake.
Read above. Body88 made excuses for him in this very thread but chastises Mo for ONE mistake made 4 years ago. Typical Boston bullshit. ::)
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Read above. Body88 made excuses for him in this very thread but chastises Mo for ONE mistake made 4 years ago. Typical Boston bullshit. ::)
I see your still avoiding this post......
Mo's not better, because he hasn't pitched well when all the marbles where on the table in a long time. Also, Pap was the better pitcher in 2006 and 2007 (even winning a title). Since Pap came into the league, he has been better than Mo, according to the stats. Lower era, more so's, more saves and he helped his team win a world series. Currently, Pap and Mo's stats are very close, and I could give a shit if a couple of bad starts has Paps era a tad higher. Your ignoring the fact that Pap is a young kid, and talking about how much older Mo is than Pap. Experience means something in this game, and Pap is only going to get better. You act like there is a huge disparity in the stats, not really. One bad game for Mo, and Pap is better. As I said before, The era is the only difference, and a single bad start for Pap raised it a run over Mo's. Are you telling me that if Mo goes out, and has a single bad start, while pap drops his era back to Normal, Mo is all the sudden going to be the worse player? Thats what your argument is saying.
You know for a fact Pap wont be on Mo's level? Lets look at the stats over the first three years of their careers ( pap = bold ):
Saves 0, 35, 37 - 0, 5, 43 Total : 72 - 48
ERA 2.65, 0.98, 1.85 - 5.51, 2.09, 1.88 Total : No idea, but paps is lower.
Thats what I thought :)
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I see your still avoiding this post......
Thats what I thought :)
I haven't had the chance to look things up, but since you keep posting this, I''ll tell you right off the bat what's completely wrong with your argument.
Rivera was a STARTER in 95 and a set up man in 1996, so comparing the amount of saves means absolutely nothing. Even without that, saves are also largely a product of opportunity, meaning it's not in the closer's hand how many chances he has.
In addition, ERA is horrible stat to measure the effectiveness of a closer due to small sample size of innings. In other words, a whopping total of 3 ER can be lead to a major difference in ERA. This is all without any stat mining, but maybe this week I'll dive into it.
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I haven't had the chance to look things up, but since you keep posting this, I''ll tell you right off the bat what's completely wrong with your argument.
Rivera was a STARTER in 95 and a set up man in 1996, so comparing the amount of saves means absolutely nothing. Even without that, saves are also largely a product of opportunity, meaning it's not in the closer's hand how many chances he has.
In addition, ERA is horrible stat to measure the effectiveness of a closer due to small sample size of innings. In other words, a whopping total of 3 ER can be lead to a major difference in ERA. This is all without any stat mining, but maybe this week I'll dive into it.
The first year Pap was in the big leauges, was he a closer? Also, so what if Mo was a set up man, pap started out in the same roll I believe, and also was considered to start. I looked at the numbers and compared save attemps vs era. I used the stats that where in front of me, and compared the attemps to the era. I think ip is pretty close over the first three years.... Not a Yankees fan, so I used baseball referance to get the stats. Also, my point in posting those stats over and over was to see if Fury knew what he was talking about, when he said Pap cannot be compared to MO. You looked at the stats, and it jogged your memory as to why it might not be as cut and dry as it seemed, that Pap was better.Fury ignored the post, because he had no clue if his actual comments could be backed up by stats and performance.
Please compile the stats, and let me know what you find.
This is what MO looks like vs the sox over the last five years :
total saves vs. boston - 21
blown saves vs. boston - 10
50/50
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I don't care for the way Papelbon acts on the field or off the field. After six years of MLB service, good players have all the leverage, and get incredible paydays as either free agents from other teams or their current teams have to open up the wallets. The tradeoff is that they're cost controlled by their teams in the early years. It's a give and take - they get you early on the cheap, and, if you're good, you get the money in your peak years and, often, you get overpaid in your decline. Papelbon (and Pedroia) were already talking "not taking a home town discount" and "setting the market" for their positions when free agency comes. It's arrogant, and, very presumtive. If you heard a Yankee bitching about money and talking about all the money he's going to make in FA in FOUR YEARS you'd think he's a jackass too.
I also hate the fact that every time he blows a save, there's some cosmic reason as to why it happened, like there's no way HE could just possibly get beat. I've seen quotes like "I just wasn't into it" and "didn't have enough time to warm up". In contrast, when Rivera gets beat he just says he didn't do his job and he'll get them next time.
The guy's been in the league two years and his shoulder fell out in one of them, yet he compares himself to the greatest player there ever was at their position. I've seen many quotes from ballplayers themeselves (Joe Nathan comes to mind) saying that he could use a little humility.
It has nothing to do with his pitching ability. I'll check the numbers later for his first three years vs. Rivera's but I do remember in 1996 Rivera went 17 innings without giving up a HIT. His IP also dwarfs Papelbon's, but that's just my memory speaking. I have a feeling doing the research will be splitting hairs - meaning there's probably legitimate arguments for both sides.
I asked about the article because if I was wrong and he was set up to look bad, I want to admit my mistake.
Your beef comes with the current state of the MLB, and the players union. Guys want to get paid for there services, and Dustin and Pap have a legit argument as to why they should get their $. They have both played MAJOR roles in the 2 ws wins the sox have in the last 3 years. Also, your argument is opinion. I have personally seen Pap and Dustin do EVERYTHING that has been asked from them. Regardless of what they want for money, they are still going out and giving 110% on the field. Thats all the matters, and I would never fault a player for wanting to get paid, and to sign long term with a team they love... They have proven their worth IMO. I would only fault them if they threw hissy fits, refused to play, or threw games. Sort of like what Manny is starting to do. I say trade his ass. How many Yankees have come right from the farm recently, and played Major roles over the span of two years, to help the Yankees win titles? Pap and Dustin are both all star players, they want to get paid like it. Why not lock them up long term? They both want to skip the FA game, and stay in Boston. Why worry about it? If Boston fans don't think it's a huge issue, why does NY? IMHO, thats a media that is mining for reason to take shots, because their team isn't winning titles anymore.
Also, so what if Pap makes comments? I have heard the kid take responsibility for his pitching many times. You get what the New York media gives to you, and they are the same media that called him Paplebum in a headline? A bum? Right, bums are a team full of hugely overpaid players, who have a huge advantage over the rest of the MLB and they cant win - aka, the modern day Yankees. At least the sox are winning. If pap was ever a free agent, the Yankees would sign him in a second. The kids brash crass and he does his job when it counts. Daring to compare himself to the greatest closer ever? Thats nothing more than self righteous Yankees fans huffing and puffing at a kid who is confident, and has backed it up on the big stage.
I would bet you, if you followed the sox game by game, and listened to paps post game comments, you would feel a bit differently.
Btw, Paps shoulder didn't fall out......Tito was using him to much, and they gave him a rest. His shoulder is fine.
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Read above. Body88 made excuses for him in this very thread but chastises Mo for ONE mistake made 4 years ago. Typical Boston bullshit. ::)
Excuses, I said a few bad games has his era a run higher than mo's, and he didn't perform well at the all star game. Deflection is the name of your game my friend.
I can recall Mo blowing a lot more than 1 important save over the last four years. Also, why are you ignoring the fact I called him the greatest closer ever?
Mos stats vs the sox over the last 5 years :
total saves vs. boston - 21
blown saves vs. boston - 10
50/50.....He may be automatic, but not vs the Red Sox.
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No matter how you slice it, over the last decade, Boston sports teams have dominated sports.
i remember in 2001 when colorado won the cup, ray bourque took the cup to boston and they celebrated like they won it
jim rome called boston the biggest loser in sports
funny how things change
E