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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Sports Discussion Boards => Topic started by: 240 is Back on July 22, 2008, 07:03:20 PM
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holy crap... never thought it'd happen.
They've called at LEAST 20 teams. Exploring the market to see how many, if any, teams are interested in trading for Favre.
ESPN
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I'm sure he wants to go to a contender, though.
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I'm sure he wants to go to a contender, though.
The current contenders already have qb's.... I think he goes to a team like the bucs or Min.... Both could contend if the qb was good enough.
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The current contenders already have qb's.... I think he goes to a team like the bucs or Min.... Both could contend if the qb was good enough.
It looks like it'll be TB by Monday.
This upsets me. He should have stayed retired. The packers drafted and prepared on the premise that he was retired.
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The current contenders already have qb's.... I think he goes to a team like the bucs or Min.... Both could contend if the qb was good enough.
Bucs? good chance since Gruden coached Favre in Green Bay under Holmgren.
Vikings? Not a chance in hell. No way on God's green Earth the Packers trade Favre to a division opponent. That's a little naive.
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Bucs? good chance since Gruden coached Favre in Green Bay under Holmgren.
Vikings? Not a chance in hell. No way on God's green Earth the Packers trade Favre to a division opponent. That's a little naive.
Not really, if they release him - he will be snatched up by the Vikings. If the Packers trade him, it can be argued, that Farve won.
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Not really, if they release him - he will be snatched up by the Vikings. If the Packers trade him, it can be argued, that Farve won.
Body88, you're smarter than that. Why would the Packers grant Favre his unconditional release from his contract and allow him to sign with whatever team he chooses? Why would the Packers allow him that kind of freedom when they could receive fair trade compensation for him? That makes no business sense. We're talking about Bret Favre here. The Packers would get something in return that they could benefit from.
The Packers could easily get a second round draft choice for Favre, maybe even a first round pick with certain teams. It's not about Favre 'winning' if the Packers trade him because the Packers will end up benefiting from it. Additionally, they can then turn the page and begin the Rodgers era in Green Bay. The fans wil be pissed but ownership won't give a shit about that becasue the Packers always sell out their home games no matter how good or bad the team is. The fans understand that there will have to come a day when Favre is no longer the QB of the Packers.
If the Packers were stupid enough to release Favre(which they will never do), than you could view that as win for Favre. But again, it's not happening and you can sure as shit can bet the Packers will never trade Favre to a divisional opponent.
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This is all irrelevant anyway. Favre just announced to the media that he intends to report to Packers training camp after all. Looks like Brett is the starter for the '09 season. If anyone was stupid enough to believe that the Packers were serious when they said that Favre would only be a BACKUP to Rodgers, than SHAME ON YOU.
What a mess.
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it will be interesting what the pack do now, smart move by Brett. however i think he wont show up, he's bluffing. i dont think he'll play football.
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it will be interesting what the pack do now, smart move by Brett. however i think he wont show up, he's bluffing. i dont think he'll play football.
He's playing for sure. Why go through all this media bullshit if he wasn't interested in playing in 2009? He still has the desire to play. While I agree he shouldn't have retired in the first place, I do think the guy is a legend and he's earned the right to change his mind.
He still wants to play. He's a pro athlete and a competitor. Guys like that have a difficult time walking away from the game. I don't see why he should be degraded becasue of that desire. He can still compete at the highest level. When you know you can still play at a high level in the NFL, it's hard to just walk away for good.
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PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEE LET TAMPA GET HIM!
I'll be at every home game this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEEE LET TAMPA GET HIM!
I'll be at every home game this year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Won't make a difference. You guys need to get younger on defense(especially at the LB and DB positions) and get a good complimentary receiver to 37 year Joey Galloway. Cadillac Williams's career is over and Earnest Graham isn't the long term answer at RB. Warrick Dunn is almost 40 now, right?
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He's playing for sure. Why go through all this media bullshit if he wasn't interested in playing in 2009? He still has the desire to play. While I agree he shouldn't have retired in the first place, I do think the guy is a legend and he's earned the right to change his mind.
He still wants to play. He's a pro athlete and a competitor. Guys like that have a difficult time walking away from the game. I don't see why he should be degraded becasue of that desire. He can still compete at the highest level. When you know you can still play at a high level in the NFL, it's hard to just walk away for good.
He's not being degrated, the packers are sick of him holding them hostage. How many times should they let him pull the bullshit? He is the main reason why the packers have imploded in recent important games, and they decided to cut the cord.
I hope to god he goes to the Jets!
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Won't make a difference. You guys need to get younger on defense(especially at the LB and DB positions) and get a good complimentary receiver to 37 year Joey Galloway. Cadillac Williams's career is over and Earnest Graham isn't the long term answer at RB. Warrick Dunn is almost 40 now, right?
The same thing was said about the patriots lb core last year....they put up good defensive numbers as a team, and the fact some of them where older was highly overrated. Farve would instantly make the Bucs a better team, and its not like the where a bad team last year.
Experience is understated, and youth is overrated with players. I'm not saying old guys are the answer, but I am saying there is some truth to older guys knowing their position better, and running with more confidence, slightly negating the difference in speed.
I think farve makes the Bucs a better team, and if they have the chance, they should sign the crazy bastard.
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The same thing was said about the patriots lb core last year....they put up good defensive numbers as a team, and the fact some of them where older was highly overrated. Farve would instantly make the Bucs a better team, and its not like the where a bad team last year.
Experience is understated, and youth is overrated with players. I'm not saying old guys are the answer, but I am saying there is some truth to older guys knowing their position better, and running with more confidence, slightly negating the difference in speed.
I think farve makes the Bucs a better team, and if they have the chance, they should sign the crazy bastard.
I am going to take the Pac's office hostage until they trade him to the Bears.. GOD WE NEED A QB PLEASE HEAR MY PRAYERS!
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I am going to take the Pac's office hostage until they trade him to the Bears.. GOD WE NEED A QB PLEASE HEAR MY PRAYERS!
Sir, the thought of #4 in Bears uniform sickens me.
You guys do need a QB in the worst way. From what I've been hearing, the quarterback competition has been hideous so far...dropped snaps, overthrown receivers, wrong plays....and that's on a good day.
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The same thing was said about the patriots lb core last year....they put up good defensive numbers as a team, and the fact some of them where older was highly overrated. Farve would instantly make the Bucs a better team, and its not like the where a bad team last year.
Experience is understated, and youth is overrated with players. I'm not saying old guys are the answer, but I am saying there is some truth to older guys knowing their position better, and running with more confidence, slightly negating the difference in speed.
I think farve makes the Bucs a better team, and if they have the chance, they should sign the crazy bastard.
All if have to say to that is this...When the Pats' starting cornerback is Fernando Bryant, a player that couldn't hang on with the defensive starved Lions, that spells trouble.
Your secondary is going to be hurting this year. Lewis Sanders is an avergae NFL starter, Rodney Harrison is 50 years old but a tremendous locker room leader. And the jury is still out on whether Brandon Merriweather can adjust to Belichek's defensive schemes and win a starting job.
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All if have to say to that is this...When the Pats' starting cornerback is Fernando Bryant, a player that couldn't hang on with the defensive starved Lions, that spells trouble.
Your secondary is going to be hurting this year. Lewis Sanders is an avergae NFL starter, Rodney Harrison is 50 years old but a tremendous locker room leader. And the jury is still out on whether Brandon Merriweather can adjust to Belichek's defensive schemes and win a starting job.
Who where the pats starting corners, the year they won their last sb? Fernando isn't the number on corner on the pats, and your forgetting a handful of guys including rookies who have looked awesome in camp. The pats totally revamped their lb core this year, and they will utalize Don Capers to field a pressure style defense. I can say with confidence, having spent time at pats camp this year, your assesment of the pats is a long shot at best : )
13 - 3 I'll bet you money on it.
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Who where the pats starting corners, the year they won their last sb? Fernando isn't the number on corner on the pats, and your forgetting a handful of guys including rookies who have looked awesome in camp. The pats totally revamped their lb core this year, and they will utalize Don Capers to field a pressure style defense. I can say with confidence, having spent time at pats camp this year, your assesment of the pats is a long shot at best : )
13 - 3 I'll bet you money on it.
I have no doubt they'll win 13 or 14 games. having a Qb that throws 50 touchdown(man, that's eye popping) passes will win you a lot of games.
Who is the no. 1 CB on the Pats? Hobbs? I'm agreeing with you about the LB core. Drafting Mayo was a solid move. But I'm talking about your weak secondary, Body88. It's no where near as strong as it was last year. I'm telling you, not paying Asante will end up biting you in the ass when it counts the most.(playoff time)
I bet you the Pats give up 15-20 points a game on defense this year. They will outscore other teams, simple as that. But defense wins championships, as you already know. Things get turned up a notch in the post season. Look no further than the Superbowl when the Giants held that great offense to just 14 points.(and just 7 points until the last two minutes of the game.)
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I have no doubt they'll win 13 or 14 games. having a Qb that throws 50 touchdown(man, that's eye popping) passes will win you a lot of games.
Who is the no. 1 CB on the Pats? Hobbs? I'm agreeing with you about the LB core. Drafting Mayo was a solid move. But I'm talking about your weak secondary, Body88. It's no where near as strong as it was last year. I'm telling you, not paying Asante will end up biting you in the ass when it counts the most.(playoff time)
I bet you the Pats give up 15-20 points a game on defense this year. They will outscore other teams, simple as that. But defense wins championships, as you already know. Things get turned up a notch in the post season. Look no further than the Superbowl when the Giants held that great offense to just 14 points.(and just 7 points until the last two minutes of the game.)
I will take that bet....and I will also bet you that letting Asante walk was not as big of a deal as you are making it out to be. Asante has already strained both of his hamstrings in eagles camp, and reports have him struggling in their defense. We will see this year, if the pats system, had anything to do with his success. The pats are not focusing on a number one corner, they want a bunch of effective guys, because they are going to run a pressure defense. Also, I have seen the rook cb's the pats picked up, and they are going to be good. Revis started for the jets, why can't we have young guys out there? Matt Slater is a sleeper pick, who will make a nice defensive player.The defense is going to be better than last year. It's the exact same defense (Minus Asante), plus four, new, YOUNG, fast lb's. Also, Seymour is going to be 100 percent this year. Letting Asante go won't bite the pats in the ass, they have capable corners, and they are running a pressure style defense this year. The d isn't based on the secondary. The pats won superbowls with guys you never heard of playing cb. From a defensive line standpoint, pats are top three in the NFL, and with the addition of Crable, Mayo,Gutton and Hobsen + Thomas moving back to his most effective position ( since he wont have to play in Colvins spot) = improved d. Meriweather ran stride for stride with Moss, and picked him off at camp last week.....He is going to come on this year, and I have high hopes for James Sanders. I made a similar argument about the colts d last year, and man was I wrong. You ever hear of any of the guys they brought in last year? I didn't and their d was the best it has ever been.
Your sb analogy is flawed imo. It's one game. The g men deserved to win, but it took several miracles for it to happen. I know they did a great job, but over 18 games the pats won game after game. If you are talking pure football success, you go with the long body of work. Unfortunately,the game where the trend was broken, was the biggest game. I know all about defense, the patriots have had several of the best over the last 8 years. The colts are an offensive team, yet they won the sb the year before, against a great bears d. Their defense sucked that year. The patriots defense needs to be good. They don't have to have a dominant d to win a championship, they have to have a good one. I would take a good defense, and a world class offensive, over a piss poor offense, and a world class defense. They wont allow 20 points a game, not over one player leaving. They got better on d. Btw, the pats secondary and lb's had little to do with the pats losing the sb, it was the offensive line.
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By miracles you mean getting outplayed in every single facet of the game? Because if that's what you mean, then yes, a lot of "miracles" happened that day.
Probably had something to do with the fact that those Pats were as overrated as I said they were. ;D
You have been attempting to start crap for weeks now. I let all your threads stay, because your show is old to me. But, I am going to start deleting all your shit if you come into threads and ruin them with your garbage. Let the adults have a conversation. Your threads are meant to annoy people, and they are infact inflamatory.
The mircale I am talking about was the Tyre catch, and Harrison, Samuel and Merweather dropping three game ending ints.I see it didn't take much time for you to start acting like an asshole again, thanks for that pm back when the g men won it all though ::)
You dont have conversations, you just make inflamatory statements.
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Body88, you're smarter than that. Why would the Packers grant Favre his unconditional release from his contract and allow him to sign with whatever team he chooses? Why would the Packers allow him that kind of freedom when they could receive fair trade compensation for him? That makes no business sense. We're talking about Bret Favre here. The Packers would get something in return that they could benefit from.
The Packers could easily get a second round draft choice for Favre, maybe even a first round pick with certain teams. It's not about Favre 'winning' if the Packers trade him because the Packers will end up benefiting from it. Additionally, they can then turn the page and begin the Rodgers era in Green Bay. The fans wil be pissed but ownership won't give a shit about that becasue the Packers always sell out their home games no matter how good or bad the team is. The fans understand that there will have to come a day when Favre is no longer the QB of the Packers.
If the Packers were stupid enough to release Favre(which they will never do), than you could view that as win for Favre. But again, it's not happening and you can sure as shit can bet the Packers will never trade Favre to a divisional opponent.
Packers met with Farve yesterday.....and offered him 20 million to stay retired.
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I will take that bet....and I will also bet you that letting Asante walk was not as big of a deal as you are making it out to be. Asante has already strained both of his hamstrings in eagles camp, and reports have him struggling in their defense. We will see this year, if the pats system, had anything to do with his success. The pats are not focusing on a number one corner, they want a bunch of effective guys, because they are going to run a pressure defense. Also, I have seen the rook cb's the pats picked up, and they are going to be good. Revis started for the jets, why can't we have young guys out there? Matt Slater is a sleeper pick, who will make a nice defensive player.The defense is going to be better than last year. It's the exact same defense (Minus Asante), plus four, new, YOUNG, fast lb's. Also, Seymour is going to be 100 percent this year. Letting Asante go won't bite the pats in the ass, they have capable corners, and they are running a pressure style defense this year. The d isn't based on the secondary. The pats won superbowls with guys you never heard of playing cb. From a defensive line standpoint, pats are top three in the NFL, and with the addition of Crable, Mayo,Gutton and Hobsen + Thomas moving back to his most effective position ( since he wont have to play in Colvins spot) = improved d. Meriweather ran stride for stride with Moss, and picked him off at camp last week.....He is going to come on this year, and I have high hopes for James Sanders. I made a similar argument about the colts d last year, and man was I wrong. You ever hear of any of the guys they brought in last year? I didn't and their d was the best it has ever been.
Your sb analogy is flawed imo. It's one game. The g men deserved to win, but it took several miracles for it to happen. I know they did a great job, but over 18 games the pats won game after game. If you are talking pure football success, you go with the long body of work. Unfortunately,the game where the trend was broken, was the biggest game. I know all about defense, the patriots have had several of the best over the last 8 years. The colts are an offensive team, yet they won the sb the year before, against a great bears d. Their defense sucked that year. The patriots defense needs to be good. They don't have to have a dominant d to win a championship, they have to have a good one. I would take a good defense, and a world class offensive, over a piss poor offense, and a world class defense. They wont allow 20 points a game, not over one player leaving. They got better on d. Btw, the pats secondary and lb's had little to do with the pats losing the sb, it was the offensive line.
How can Asante be 'struggling' in the defensive scheme? What are your sources that tell you he's been struggling in camp? He's a CB, not a Safety. Safeties have far more responsibility on defense than CB's. What's he struggling with? And as far as having pulled hammies, it's only training camp and tweaked hammies occur from time to time. The guy's a stud. He'll be back in top form.
And dude, what are you talking about when you say the pats won superbowls with no-name cb's?? Bullshit. Ty Law has been to the probowl at least four or five times in his career. And his pick for a touchdown against the Rams in the superbowl pretty much sealed the win that started your team' dynasty. And Otis 'my main man' Smith played 15 years in the league and has seven career int's for Td's. Not to mention that he's been one of most reliable, lock down postseason cb's in recent memory.
Those two guys were your starters when the Pats one their first-ever Superbowl. They're not no-names. Asante Samuel is a stud-playmaker and I'm one of his biggest fans. He makes a lot of plays because of his great instincts on the field.
Ok, maybe not 20 points a game but your secondary is definitely weaker than last year. Your front seven is awesome but Belichek has his LB's dropping back in coverage quite often. They'll be doing that alot this year to help the secondary on obvious passing downs.
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How can Asante be 'struggling' in the defensive scheme? What are your sources that tell you he's been struggling in camp? He's a CB, not a Safety. Safeties have far more responsibility on defense than CB's. What's he struggling with? And as far as having pulled hammies, it's only training camp and tweaked hammies occur from time to time. The guy's a stud. He'll be back in top form.
And dude, what are you talking about when you say the pats won superbowls with no-name cb's?? Bullshit. Ty Law has been to the probowl at least four or five times in his career. And his pick for a touchdown against the Rams in the superbowl pretty much sealed the win that started your team' dynasty. And Otis 'my main man' Smith played 15 years in the league and has seven career int's for Td's. Not to mention that he's been one of most reliable, lock down postseason cb's in recent memory.
Those two guys were your starters when the Pats one their first-ever Superbowl. They're not no-names. Asante Samuel is a stud-playmaker and I'm one of his biggest fans. He makes a lot of plays because of his great instincts on the field.
Ok, maybe not 20 points a game but your secondary is definitely weaker than last year. Your front seven is awesome but Belichek has his LB's dropping back in coverage quite often. They'll be doing that alot this year to help the secondary on obvious passing downs.
The eagles run a totally different defense than the pats. The reports I read have been the ones coming out of eagles camp. I watched Asante play since he came into the leauge, I know his skill set, and I think the eagles style of db play will give him trouble. Belichicks d is different than most. A young, expensive, franchise player, who has two pulled hammys already, is a concern - imo.
Your talking about the first superbowl. I said their last superbowl that they won. They won recent sb's their best corners on the shelf. Your changing the argument, I said I have seen the pats win sb's with no name conrners. I didnt say the first of the three. Btw - at the time Ty Law was not the stud he was later on. Otis Smith? He was a number one corner? Come on bro... It's a moot point, I was talking about the most recent sb, not the first.
I agree... The secondary will be slightly weaker, but if the rooks play like they have in camp, I dont think there will be much difference, because of the revamped lb core, and Capers new pressure style d. Mayo was brought in for his effectivness on passing downs, I think the oats struggle a bit ( but still win) at the start of the season, and as things start to gel contend for a sb. Honestly ( I know this sounds crazy), but I think the pats d will be better this year.
I just heard an update on eei, that the packers are considering trading Farve to the bears or the Vikings if they cannot find a suitable trade partner. They already where going to offer him 20 million to stay retired, I dont think smart team moves for the team is what they are thinking right now. Imo - teams know that the packers are going to have to release him, so they are not giving up much to get him.
Parcels traded Curtis Martin to the Jets in his prime.
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Sir, the thought of #4 in Bears uniform sickens me.
You guys do need a QB in the worst way. From what I've been hearing, the quarterback competition has been hideous so far...dropped snaps, overthrown receivers, wrong plays....and that's on a good day.
Yeah my in laws live in Chicago, my father in law is an old guy that lives for his sports. He said that Orton and Chokemen where doing horrible. He was telling me how they were both throwing tons of INT's. We never have had a QB. It's been 20 fucking years and I still wouldn't say we had that great of a QB. My father in law and myself are always arguing about the QB set up in Chicago. I would rather throw my faith in Orton and let him get killed or step up to the plate. The old guy thinks that since Grossman has a winning record he should keep the job, my only issuee, Grossman doesn't have a winning record the defense does. :-X :-X
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Chicago has never had a QB worth a shit as far as I know. Maybe some of the die-hard Bear fans can rattle names from the 50's and 60's butin the last 30 years?
Jim Mcmahon was probably the best in the last 30 years. And he was made of glass. Always on the disabled list.
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Chicago has never had a QB worth a shit as far as I know. Maybe some of the die-hard Bear fans can rattle names from the 50's and 60's butin the last 30 years?
Jim Mcmahon was probably the best in the last 30 years. And he was made of glass. Always on the disabled list.
That's why I said "It's been 20 fucking years and I still wouldn't say we had that great of a QB." That is one thing I wish we could get, we also need to keep a fucking back, and thank god for Devin and his run backs, that's the best part of the O. I am a die hard Chicago fan and will never change my team, but they have done some stupid things as of late! I was pissed when they let Tank go, and the last two backs released made me a little upset. They weren't that great, but they were better then the third string. I just hope the kid does big things his rookie year.
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Oh, I just remembered on litlle thing...
(http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:2RJcAcGZjU3IxM:http://kotaku.com/assets/resources/2008/04/Favre.jpg)
What about the curse?
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I think the curse has already been handed down to the entire Packers organization.
Brett will come out of this looking like the winner. When it's all said and done, the Packers caved in and gave Brett everything he wanted in the first place.
Do you think there is actually a chance that Brett won't win the Packers starting QB job?
Please.... ::)
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I think the curse has already been handed down to the entire Packers organization.
Brett will come out of this looking like the winner. When it's all said and done, the Packers caved in and gave Brett everything he wanted in the first place.
Do you think there is actually a chance that Brett won't win the Packers starting QB job?
Please.... ::)
He was already told Rogers would start...... I bet they trade him to the Vikings. Reports had them in talks on Friday.
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Yep, just read that also.
But a trade to the Vikings? I just don't think the Packers are that stupid to trade him to a division opponent. It's just not realistic to think that will happen.
I mean, it COULD happen but that would be a very bad move for the Packers.
Favre with the Vikings= instant SuperBowl contender.
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Yep, just read that also.
But a trade to the Vikings? I just don't think the Packers are that stupid to trade him to a division opponent. It's just not realistic to think that will happen.
I mean, it COULD happen but that would be a very bad move for the Packers.
Favre with the Vikings= instant SuperBowl contender.
The Vikings and the packers have been talking since Friday. People are apprehensive to give up to much for Farve, because they know the packers are going to have to let him go if they cant find a partner soon. The packers are screwed.....Farve is really acting like an asshole. Shit,they offered the guy 20 million to retire, they are desperate.
Trust me, when I first posted that, any sane football fan would call me nuts. I heard from a reliable source at the time, that they where talking, and it turned out to be true. I thought the Jets might go after him, but I'm not sure if they will give up what it takes to get him, and ditch their plan of rebuilding from the draft.
They could be doing it to get a trade partner to bite, or they could really be trying to work out a deal with the Vikes. Obv the Vikes would give up a lot to get him. I would think McKinney would be in the conversation.
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Yeah my in laws live in Chicago, my father in law is an old guy that lives for his sports. He said that Orton and Chokemen where doing horrible. He was telling me how they were both throwing tons of INT's. We never have had a QB. It's been 20 fucking years and I still wouldn't say we had that great of a QB. My father in law and myself are always arguing about the QB set up in Chicago. I would rather throw my faith in Orton and let him get killed or step up to the plate. The old guy thinks that since Grossman has a winning record he should keep the job, my only issuee, Grossman doesn't have a winning record the defense does. :-X :-X
When horton was under center what was his record
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supposedly he is talking to the bucs now, honestly if he doesnt get traded within another week or so iono if its even worth it for him. I think anything less than a confrence championship for whatever team he does play for has got to be looked at as a failure, especially if he retires after this season. Its gotta be hard moving to another team, learning new coaches, learning new players. So if he doesnt get in somewhere else soon i dont see him playing at all to be honest. If he was smart and could swallow his pride hed go sit on the bench in green bay and wait out the first half of the first game and from then on he would probably be the starter. I agree body88 he is being an ass and a little bitch about things
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All if have to say to that is this...When the Pats' starting cornerback is Fernando Bryant, a player that couldn't hang on with the defensive starved Lions, that spells trouble.
Your secondary is going to be hurting this year. Lewis Sanders is an avergae NFL starter, Rodney Harrison is 50 years old but a tremendous locker room leader. And the jury is still out on whether Brandon Merriweather can adjust to Belichek's defensive schemes and win a starting job.
True, but they're gonna score 800 points this season, right?
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I know all about defense, the patriots have had several of the best over the last 8 years. The colts are an offensive team, yet they won the sb the year before, against a great bears d. Their defense sucked that year. The patriots defense needs to be good. They don't have to have a dominant d to win a championship, they have to have a good one. I would take a good defense, and a world class offensive, over a piss poor offense, and a world class defense. They wont allow 20 points a game, not over one player leaving. They got better on d. Btw, the pats secondary and lb's had little to do with the pats losing the sb, it was the offensive line.
The Patriots not-so-great defense kept the Giants off the scoreboard, too.
You're right - with that offense, the Patriots defense only needs to be good in order to give them a real shot at a title.
The only team to ever win the SB with a piss poor offense and world-class defense were the Ravens, right? There's a reason it's only happened once.
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The Patriots not-so-great defense kept the Giants off the scoreboard, too.
You're right - with that offense, the Patriots defense only needs to be good in order to give them a real shot at a title.
The only team to ever win the SB with a piss poor offense and world-class defense were the Ravens, right? There's a reason it's only happened once.
Correct, but I wouldn't catergorize the 2000 Raven's offense as 'piss poor' as you call it. The beginning of the season was rough where they went 5 games without scoring an offensive touchdown. They Ravens won 3 of those games, by the way. But by the end of the season, rookie Jamal Lewis ran for 1,300+ yards and 9 TD's. Quadry Ismail had 1,000 yard receiving yards season with 6 td's and Trent Dilfer really flourished during the last half of the season. Dilfer didn't win games for the Ravens, he simply didn't lose them. And the Ravens put up 34 points in the Superbowl against the Giants.
We'll call the 2000 Ravens's offense average. It just seems piss poor in comparison to the dominating defense they had that year. The best ever, in my opinion.
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The Patriots not-so-great defense kept the Giants off the scoreboard, too.
You're right - with that offense, the Patriots defense only needs to be good in order to give them a real shot at a title.
The only team to ever win the SB with a piss poor offense and world-class defense were the Ravens, right? There's a reason it's only happened once.
World class offense, with a good defense......over a World Class defense with a decent offense all day long.
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The latter will win more championships every time. Defense wins championships. You can't lose if you don't allow the opponent's offense to score and you force turnovers. The formula works, the 2000 Ravens are proof. Same with the 2002 Bucs.
Of course it's a matter of opinion because both ways have worked. I just prefer defensive-minded games as opposed to high-scoring games.
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TRADED TO THE JETS BITCHES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o :o :o
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Good. It's too bad these aging stars cannot retire gracefully.
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Good. It's too bad these aging stars cannot retire gracefully.
You're long in the tooth like me, do you recall any trade or acquisition of an aging QB that has put any team 'over the top'?
Unitas didn't do it. Tarkenton didn't do it. Montana didn't do it. McNair didn't do it.
I don't think Favre will do it either.
If the Jets try to trade Favre to any north division team, the Jets will have to surrender 3 first round picks to the pack so Favre will not come back to haunt his old team.
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You're long in the tooth like me, do you recall any trade or acquisition of an aging QB that has put any team 'over the top'?
Unitas didn't do it. Tarkenton didn't do it. Montana didn't do it. McNair didn't do it.
I don't think Favre will do it either.
If the Jets try to trade Favre to any north division team, the Jets will have to surrender 3 first round picks to the pack so Favre will not come back to haunt his old team.
The Jets where a 4 - 12 team last year. Lets say Farve is good for 5 wins (thats on the high side). They are looking at 9 - 7 - 10 - 6 BEST case scenario. Farve wont have a lot of time to learn the Jets d, and he has never been in a place where the media and the fans will RIP him ifhe does not perform. Honestly, Farve is a good player, but the fact that the packers let him walk says it all.
I think the jets went from average to slighty above average. Still wont be enough to beat the pats IMO.
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You're long in the tooth like me, do you recall any trade or acquisition of an aging QB that has put any team 'over the top'?
Unitas didn't do it. Tarkenton didn't do it. Montana didn't do it. McNair didn't do it.
I don't think Favre will do it either.
If the Jets try to trade Favre to any north division team, the Jets will have to surrender 3 first round picks to the pack so Favre will not come back to haunt his old team.
If you qualify putting a team 'over the top' as a new QB taking a new team to the SuperBowl and winning it, which is very unrealistic to do in one year, then I'll agree with you.
But in hindsight, you're wrong about Montana and Mcnair. Montana took the Chiefs to the division title, won two playoff games and put the Chiefs in the AFC championship game in one year, and a wildcard the second year. Not too bad.
Steve Mcnair took the Ravens to the division title and a 13-3 record in one year.
I agree with Body88 that Favre should make the jets at least 5 wins better. But until the season plays itself out....
none of us know dick yet.
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You're long in the tooth like me, do you recall any trade or acquisition of an aging QB that has put any team 'over the top'?
Unitas didn't do it. Tarkenton didn't do it. Montana didn't do it. McNair didn't do it.
I don't think Favre will do it either.
If the Jets try to trade Favre to any north division team, the Jets will have to surrender 3 first round picks to the pack so Favre will not come back to haunt his old team.
I agree. I doubt he puts them over the top, but the NFL is so mediocre, you never know. Parity sucks. :-\ (Get rid of the salary cap and bring back Eddie DeBartolo!)
I can see Favre doing for the Jets what Montana did for the Chiefs: take them deep into the playoffs. One problem will be Favre's playoff performances have not been good.
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I agree. I doubt he puts them over the top, but the NFL is so mediocre, you never know. Parity sucks. :-\ (Get rid of the salary cap and bring back Eddie DeBartolo!)
I can see Favre doing for the Jets what Montana did for the Chiefs: take them deep into the playoffs. One problem will be Favre's playoff performances have not been good.
Strongly disagree with you here, Beach Bum. Parity is what makes the NFL so great now. Each year a team has a chance to come out of nowhere and go far and above expectations. The salary cap is what put an end to dynasties such as the 49ers of the 80's and the Cowboys of the 90's. After awhile, you get sick and tired of the same teams winning year after year(unless of course, your a 49ers or Cowboys fan). Debartolo was a great owner for the 49ers but he spent huge amounts of money on players every season. Other smaller market teams couldn't compete financially. Now with the salary cap and the profit sharing, the playing field has been leveled out, so to speak. And the NFL is more popular than ever because of it.
And there is nothing mediocre about the NFL in this day and age. The players are more talented than ever. Bigger, faster, stronger, and smarter. I got to say that some of the great teams in the past few years would absolutely dominate some of the great dynasty teams of yesteryear, IMO.
But that's a separate argument and another thread topic altogether.
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Strongly disagree with you here, Beach Bum. Parity is what makes the NFL so great now. Each year a team has a chance to come out of nowhere and go far and above expectations. The salary cap is what put an end to dynasties such as the 49ers of the 80's and the Cowboys of the 90's. After awhile, you get sick and tired of the same teams winning year after year(unless of course, your a 49ers or Cowboys fan). Debartolo was a great owner for the 49ers but he spent huge amounts of money on players every season. Other smaller market teams couldn't compete financially. Now with the salary cap and the profit sharing, the playing field has been leveled out, so to speak. And the NFL is more popular than ever because of it.
And there is nothing mediocre about the NFL in this day and age. The players are more talented than ever. Bigger, faster, stronger, and smarter. I got to say that some of the great teams in the past few years would absolutely dominate some of the great dynasty teams of yesteryear, IMO.
But that's a separate argument and another thread topic altogether.
You think the NFL is great? I just looked at the NFL roster. Here is a list of teams that I doubt we can call "great" and that I call medicore:
Ravens, Bills, Cincy, Browns, Texans, Chiefs, Dolphins, Jets, Raiders, Titans, Ariz, Falcons, Panthers, Bears, Lions, Niners :'(, Rams, Bucs, and Skins. That's darn the entire NFL.
I agree there are better athletes today, but the teams are not better (same is true of the NBA). Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'd rather see a team of superstars than a team like Arizona strugging to win a few games every year. The Pats were more entertaining last year than the Niners, because the Pats had a couple stars on O and very talented role players (and my Niners stunk). The NFL was more interesting when the Niners and Cowboys were battling for the Super Bowl every year.
Parity has killed rivarlies. Do we even have any rivalries anymore? I'm talking about teams that hate each other, that are competing for championships, and who draw large audiences? I guess the closest we have is Pats v. Indy, but that doesn't exactly have people on the edge of their seats.
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You think the NFL is great? I just looked at the NFL roster. Here is a list of teams that I doubt we can call "great" and that I call medicore:
Ravens, Bills, Cincy, Browns, Texans, Chiefs, Dolphins, Jets, Raiders, Titans, Ariz, Falcons, Panthers, Bears, Lions, Niners :'(, Rams, Bucs, and Skins. That's darn the entire NFL.
I agree there are better athletes today, but the teams are not better (same is true of the NBA). Maybe I'm in the minority, but I'd rather see a team of superstars than a team like Arizona strugging to win a few games every year. The Pats were more entertaining last year than the Niners, because the Pats had a couple stars on O and very talented role players (and my Niners stunk). The NFL was more interesting when the Niners and Cowboys were battling for the Super Bowl every year.
Parity has killed rivarlies. Do we even have any rivalries anymore? I'm talking about teams that hate each other, that are competing for championships, and who draw large audiences? I guess the closest we have is Pats v. Indy, but that doesn't exactly have people on the edge of their seats.
Beach, any one or few of those teams can come out of the gate strong this year. The Browns, Bears, Panthers, and Bills especially have the potential to have really good seasons this year.
As a young boy, my team was the Redskins. I was a big fan of the hogs, the posse, etc. and I loved watching those NFC East battles when that division was the best ever in the late 80's and early 90's. The games against Buddy Ryan's Eagles and Parcells' Giants, and Landry's Cowboys was some of the best football I ever watched. I get very nostalgic and I get goosebumps thinking about some of those games. SO from that perspective, I do agree with missing that aspect of watching top teams. But that's a bias opinion and I was lucky to live in that area to be part of growing up to that level of football. The smaller market teams continued to suck year after year while those great teams thrived.
I just think your opinion is a little biased only because the 49ers were great for a VERY LONG time. Since '81 up until the mid 90's. That's a long stretch of success. Now the 49ers suck ass in this day and age. Now you probably wish there wasn't a salary cap so your owner could spend money like crazy by bringing in high profile free agents every year, right? Like renting Deion Sanders for one year, for example.
Oh well, that's not the state of the NFL these days and it never will be again. No one team is going be have a decided advantage when it comes to keeping depth year after year and losing players to free agency. And it may be awhile before your team is back to prominence.
Frank Gore is a not a sure thing due to his risk for injury. The guy has had acl tears in both knees before he ever came to the pros. Alex Smith looks like a colussul bust and the wide receivers are nothing special(you signed Isaac Bruce who is ancient).You struck gold with Vernon Davis and Patrick Willis but you guys still have a long road to haul. Mike Nolan is a much better defensive coordinator than head coach and you can bet his ass is gone if he has one more losing season. He had to beg ownership not to let him go this past offseason.
I don't blame you for missing the glory days of the 49ers. But it's going to be a LOOOOONG time before you guys get Lombardi trophy #6!
Sorry I'm hitting you with a flamethrower but I honestly got sick and tired of the 49ers winning every fricken year. It made me nauesous, to be perfectly honest and I'm not sorry your team is in the shitter.
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Beach, any one or few of those teams can come out of the gate strong this year. The Browns, Bears, Panthers, and Bills especially have the potential to have really good seasons this year.
As a young boy, my team was the Redskins. I was a big fan of the hogs, the posse, etc. and I loved watching those NFC East battles when that division was the best ever in the late 80's and early 90's. The games against Buddy Ryan's Eagles and Parcells' Giants, and Landry's Cowboys was some of the best football I ever watched. I get very nostalgic and I get goosebumps thinking about some of those games. SO from that perspective, I do agree with missing that aspect of watching top teams. But that's a bias opinion and I was lucky to live in that area to be part of growing up to that level of football. The smaller market teams continued to suck year after year while those great teams thrived.
I just think your opinion is a little biased only because the 49ers were great for a VERY LONG time. Since '81 up until the mid 90's. That's a long stretch of success. Now the 49ers suck ass in this day and age. Now you probably wish there wasn't a salary cap so your owner could spend money like crazy by bringing in high profile free agents every year, right? Like renting Deion Sanders for one year, for example.
Oh well, that's not the state of the NFL these days and it never will be again. No one team is going be have a decided advantage when it comes to keeping depth year after year and losing players to free agency. And it may be awhile before your team is back to prominence.
Frank Gore is a not a sure thing due to his risk for injury. The guy has had acl tears in both knees before he ever came to the pros. Alex Smith looks like a colussul bust and the wide receivers are nothing special(you signed Isaac Bruce who is ancient).You struck gold with Vernon Davis and Patrick Willis but you guys still have a long road to haul. Mike Nolan is a much better defensive coordinator than head coach and you can bet his ass is gone if he has one more losing season. He had to beg ownership not to let him go this past offseason.
I don't blame you for missing the glory days of the 49ers. But it's going to be a LOOOOONG time before you guys get Lombardi trophy #6!
Sorry I'm hitting you with a flamethrower but I honestly got sick and tired of the 49ers winning every fricken year. It made me nauesous, to be perfectly honest and I'm not sorry your team is in the shitter.
Up I know pretty much any team can compete for a Super Bowl in today's NFL (except maybe Arizona, which is cursed). That's part of my point. Teams don't have to be great anymore to win championships. Just look at the Giants.
We went through a stretch in the past 10 years or so where a number of Super Bowl winners didn't even make the playoffs the year before.
I'm not one who believes this mediocrity has been good for the NFL. Seems like you in agree in part, because football was simply better back in the day.
I'm not just talking about my Niners, although I obviously miss the glory days. My point is broader than my team. I'm talking about the league in general. I suspect many fans would rather see teams full of stars. Just look at the NBA and how stars sell out stadiums. When Shaq and Kobe were playing together they sold out visitor arenas all over the country.
Regarding my Niners, I don't expect them to compete until they get a QB. Gore will be fine and he'll likely be in my top 5 when I finally get around to my FF rankings. The WR group has been upgraded with Bruce and Bryant Johnson. Davis will be good. The O-line has been upgraded. We have playmakers on D.
They'll be back one of these days.
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Up I know pretty much any team can compete for a Super Bowl in today's NFL (except maybe Arizona, which is cursed). That's part of my point. Teams don't have to be great anymore to win championships. Just look at the Giants.
We went through a stretch in the past 10 years or so where a number of Super Bowl winners didn't even make the playoffs the year before.
I'm not one who believes this mediocrity has been good for the NFL. Seems like you in agree in part, because football was simply better back in the day.
I'm not just talking about my Niners, although I obviously miss the glory days. My point is broader than my team. I'm talking about the league in general. I suspect many fans would rather see teams full of stars. Just look at the NBA and how stars sell out stadiums. When Shaq and Kobe were playing together they sold out visitor arenas all over the country.
Regarding my Niners, I don't expect them to compete until they get a QB. Gore will be fine and he'll likely be in my top 5 when I finally get around to my FF rankings. The WR group has been upgraded with Bruce and Bryant Johnson. Davis will be good. The O-line has been upgraded. We have playmakers on D.
They'll be back one of these days.
Beach, my point was that the talent level is so much better in the modern day NFL, that's hard to have one or two teams to really separate themselves from the rest. I'm a Ravens season ticket holder and I when I attend games, boy I gotta tell you....today's NFL athlete is on another level from a decade ago. Watching those games live and seeing the game speed that today's NFl player has...wow! There isn't a slow guy on the field these days. Remember Bryan Cox? Linebacker for the Dolphins and Jets? Terrific player but was had a repuitation for being slow. Ran a 4.8 40 yard dash coming into the NFL.
I guarantee there isn't a starting linebacker in the modern NFL who runs that kind of time. And Cox's heyday was in the 90's. We're not talking about that long ago. I just think that these days the talent level is getting so leveled out and that every NFL team has loads of talent on both sides of the ball. I think the success level between great teams and good teams is based on how well the players thrive within a individual team scheme, offensively and defensively.
Sorry bro, i still disagree with you about the 'mediocrity' in the NFL. I love the competition and how every Sunday presents a challenge for every team. Every Sunday there's a greater likelihood you'll be watching a competitive game rather than a blowout.
On another note, I do miss gambling on NFL football when taking the favorite and the point spread was such easy money back in the old days. LOL!
Just a difference of opinion, my man.
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Up I know pretty much any team can compete for a Super Bowl in today's NFL (except maybe Arizona, which is cursed). That's part of my point. Teams don't have to be great anymore to win championships. Just look at the Giants.
We went through a stretch in the past 10 years or so where a number of Super Bowl winners didn't even make the playoffs the year before.
I'm not one who believes this mediocrity has been good for the NFL. Seems like you in agree in part, because football was simply better back in the day.
I'm not just talking about my Niners, although I obviously miss the glory days. My point is broader than my team. I'm talking about the league in general. I suspect many fans would rather see teams full of stars. Just look at the NBA and how stars sell out stadiums. When Shaq and Kobe were playing together they sold out visitor arenas all over the country.
Regarding my Niners, I don't expect them to compete until they get a QB. Gore will be fine and he'll likely be in my top 5 when I finally get around to my FF rankings. The WR group has been upgraded with Bruce and Bryant Johnson. Davis will be good. The O-line has been upgraded. We have playmakers on D.
They'll be back one of these days.
Stay away from Gore when it comes to Fantasy play. Never has scored double digit touchdowns since he's been inthe league. The only 49er I would draft at the skill position would be Vernon Davis. I also think you're much better off with starting Shaun Hill at QB. (former Maryland Terp) Nothing special about his abilities but is smart and doesn't lose games for you.
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Beach, my point was that the talent level is so much better in the modern day NFL, that's hard to have one or two teams to really separate themselves from the rest. I'm a Ravens season ticket holder and I when I attend games, boy I gotta tell you....today's NFL athlete is on another level from a decade ago. Watching those games live and seeing the game speed that today's NFl player has...wow! There isn't a slow guy on the field these days. Remember Bryan Cox? Linebacker for the Dolphins and Jets? Terrific player but was had a repuitation for being slow. Ran a 4.8 40 yard dash coming into the NFL.
I guarantee there isn't a starting linebacker in the modern NFL who runs that kind of time. And Cox's heyday was in the 90's. We're not talking about that long ago. I just think that these days the talent level is getting so leveled out and that every NFL team has loads of talent on both sides of the ball. I think the success level between great teams and good teams is based on how well the players thrive within a individual team scheme, offensively and defensively.
Sorry bro, i still disagree with you about the 'mediocrity' in the NFL. I love the competition and how every Sunday presents a challenge for every team. Every Sunday there's a greater likelihood you'll be watching a competitive game rather than a blowout.
On another note, I do miss gambling on NFL football when taking the favorite and the point spread was such easy money back in the old days. LOL!
Just a difference of opinion, my man.
I agree with you about the individual talent level. Athletes are bigger, stronger, and faster. That's true in pretty much every sport. What we don't have are better teams and a higher quality of play.
We'll just have to agree to disagree about watching an epic battle between a couple of 500 teams versus a couple teams loaded with studs battling for championships. I'd rather watch N.E. v. Indy than ATL v. Det.
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Stay away from Gore when it comes to Fantasy play. Never has scored double digit touchdowns since he's been inthe league. The only 49er I would draft at the skill position would be Vernon Davis. I also think you're much better off with starting Shaun Hill at QB. (former Maryland Terp) Nothing special about his abilities but is smart and doesn't lose games for you.
I disagree. Gore is a stud. He was the third leading rusher in the NFL in 06 on a bad team (1695 yards rushing and 485 yards receiving). He had 1102 and 426 on a bad team last year.
There are question marks throughout the RB ranks this year and there aren't many guys I'll rank ahead of Gore. Only things that concern me about him are his two reconstructed knees.
I may take a look at Bruce or Johnson at WR, because I draft WRs late, but I don't expect much from anyone other than Gore and Davis.
The QB situation is horrible. Alex Smith needs to have a great season or both he and Nolan need to go (although overall Nolan has made good personnel decisions).
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I disagree. Gore is a stud. He was the third leading rusher in the NFL in 06 on a bad team (1695 yards rushing and 485 yards receiving). He had 1102 and 426 on a bad team last year.
There are question marks throughout the RB ranks this year and there aren't many guys I'll rank ahead of Gore. Only things that concern me about him are his two reconstructed knees.
I may take a look at Bruce or Johnson at WR, because I draft WRs late, but I don't expect much from anyone other than Gore and Davis.
The QB situation is horrible. Alex Smith needs to have a great season or both he and Nolan need to go (although overall Nolan has made good personnel decisions).
Gore is a stud but he doesn't score touchdowns that often. Depending on the point- scoring in league play, you want a running back who has a nose for the goaline and Gore hasn't scored more than 8 Td's in one season, I think(rushing only). Yards and receptions score points in some fantasy league but touchdowns are what counts in fantasy football.
I would stay away from Gore because opponents will be stacking eight in the box against him. Defenses won't respect the 49er's passing attack so they'll focus on Gore, which will limit his productivity.
Most or all fantasy people who prefer to draft players from their favorite team end up losing in their drafts. You have to look past your favorite players and draft wisely. There's this guy in my league who is a HUGE Saints fan. Three out of his first six picks are always Saints players and he continues to finish at the bottom of the league year after year. I wonder why. I'm not saying you do that, Beach but Gore is not even in the top eight in fantasy running backs this year. Top eight represents 1/4 quarter of the number of teams in the NFL, so do the math.
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Gore is a stud but he doesn't score touchdowns that often. Depending on the point- scoring in league play, you want a running back who has a nose for the goaline and Gore hasn't scored more than 8 Td's in one season, I think(rushing only). Yards and receptions score points in some fantasy league but touchdowns are what counts in fantasy football.
I would stay away from Gore because opponents will be stacking eight in the box against him. Defenses won't respect the 49er's passing attack so they'll focus on Gore, which will limit his productivity.
Most or all fantasy people who prefer to draft players from their favorite team end up losing in their drafts. You have to look past your favorite players and draft wisely. There's this guy in my league who is a HUGE Saints fan. Three out of his first six picks are always Saints players and he continues to finish at the bottom of the league year after year. I wonder why. I'm not saying you do that, Beach but Gore is not even in the top eight in fantasy running backs this year. Top eight represents 1/4 quarter of the number of teams in the NFL, so do the math.
I don't rank players based on whether they play on my favorite team. My analysis of Gore has nothing to do with him being a Niner. (But I do refuse to draft Dallas Cowboys, just as a matter of principle. :))
Teams won't do anything differently than they did in 06, when Smith started the whole season and stunk up the field.
I play in NFL.com leagues. One point for every ten yards rushing/receiving and six for TDs.
I haven't ranked anyone yet, but give me your top 10 RBs for 08. I guarantee you there are question marks about everyone except LT and possibly Westbrook.
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I don't rank players based on whether they play on my favorite team. My analysis of Gore has nothing to do with him being a Niner. (But I do refuse to draft Dallas Cowboys, just as a matter of principle. :))
Teams won't do anything differently than they did in 06, when Smith started the whole season and stunk up the field.
I play in NFL.com leagues. One point for every ten yards rushing/receiving and six for TDs.
I haven't ranked anyone yet, but give me your top 10 RBs for 08. I guarantee you there are question marks about everyone except LT and possibly Westbrook.
oh, I do agree with you there brother. There doesn't seem to be much of a sure thing with RB this year, with a few exceptions. But I'm even scared about drafing Westbrook because of his size and vulnerability to injury. My top 10 is as follows:
1. LT
2. Steven Jackson
3. Adrian Peterson(although hs injury history scares me.)
4. Joseph Addai
5. Brian Westbrook
6. Marion Barber
7. Clinton Portis
8. Marshawn Lynch
9. Frank Gore
10. Larry Johnson(which is suprising considering his productivity in the past. But his O-line is suspect. He burned a lot of people last year in fantasy.)
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oh, I do agree with you there brother. There doesn't seem to be much of a sure thing with RB this year, with a few exceptions. But I'm even scared about drafing Westbrook because of his size and vulnerability to injury. My top 10 is as follows:
1. LT
2. Steven Jackson
3. Adrian Peterson(although hs injury history scares me.)
4. Joseph Addai
5. Brian Westbrook
6. Marion Barber
7. Clinton Portis
8. Marshawn Lynch
9. Frank Gore
10. Larry Johnson(which is suprising considering his productivity in the past. But his O-line is suspect. He burned a lot of people last year in fantasy.)
That looks pretty good. If you want to talk about QB question marks and/or anemic offenses, the Rams, Vikings, Bills, and Chiefs have significant issues.
I'm really not sure what to do after LT. Definitely concerned about Peterson's injury risk.
LJ is the real wild card. I avoided him last year in part because of stats someone put together showing the significant drop off the year after a RB has a certain number of carries. Forget the number, but it was over 400.
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oh, I do agree with you there brother. There doesn't seem to be much of a sure thing with RB this year, with a few exceptions. But I'm even scared about drafing Westbrook because of his size and vulnerability to injury. My top 10 is as follows:
1. LT
2. Steven Jackson
3. Adrian Peterson(although hs injury history scares me.)
4. Joseph Addai
5. Brian Westbrook
6. Marion Barber
7. Clinton Portis
8. Marshawn Lynch
9. Frank Gore
10. Larry Johnson(which is suprising considering his productivity in the past. But his O-line is suspect. He burned a lot of people last year in fantasy.)
personally i would put barber up in the 2 or 3 slot any time dallas gets in the red zone theres a good chance that man beast is gonna get a td. either way though if you get any of the top 6 your sitting pretty...Johnson burnt me pretty bad last year I drafted him and then couldnt give that guy away Id probably take Lamont Jordan before johnson.