Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums

Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Sports Discussion Boards => Topic started by: CalvinH on November 13, 2008, 12:35:44 PM



Title: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: CalvinH on November 13, 2008, 12:35:44 PM
Free agency for MLB starts tonight so I figured I'd throw this up and see if it sticks :)


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on November 14, 2008, 09:11:24 AM
Yanks start off with a safe move by acquiring Swisher.  The got him for next to nothing, and I don't see this hindering any potential big moves.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: CalvinH on November 14, 2008, 12:17:26 PM
Yanks start off with a safe move by acquiring Swisher.  The got him for next to nothing, and I don't see this hindering any potential big moves.


I agree.looks like a good start.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: body88 on November 14, 2008, 01:57:22 PM
I expect the sox to showcase more from their farm.  They will go after a name or two, but I think they are in pretty good shape as is. 


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on November 14, 2008, 04:05:07 PM
I expect the sox to showcase more from their farm.  They will go after a name or two, but I think they are in pretty good shape as is. 

What do you think they will do at catcher?  Boras stated Varitek's starting point was at Posada's level 4/52 or 13m per.  I wouldn't give him 4 at 13 TOTAL.

I'm pretty sure Theo will feel the same way and not go four years.  He's let big names go before (Nomar, Manny, etc...) so I think he won't be afraid to let him walk.

Do you think they'll offer him 2 at a reduced rate, or just let him go?


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on November 14, 2008, 05:35:58 PM
I was really looking forward to this offseason, as the Yankees have 80+ million coming off the books, and there is a great FA class.

CC Sabathia was at the top of my list, and the Yankees reportedly have put forth a 6/140 offer.  If so, they're not playing games with this one.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: body88 on November 14, 2008, 11:50:42 PM
What do you think they will do at catcher?  Boras stated Varitek's starting point was at Posada's level 4/52 or 13m per.  I wouldn't give him 4 at 13 TOTAL.

I'm pretty sure Theo will feel the same way and not go four years.  He's let big names go before (Nomar, Manny, etc...) so I think he won't be afraid to let him walk.

Do you think they'll offer him 2 at a reduced rate, or just let him go?

I don't think the Sox offer will Tek what he wants.  Tek (as an offensive player) is far past his prime....however, teams with young-talented pitching staffs will forgo his poor offensive numbers, to utilize his coaching abilities behind the plate.  Time and time again, Tek's pitchers have raved about his worth in that regard.  Further more, there is really no way the Sox can keep him if he is asking 13 mill per year.  I think the sox will offer him 10 Mill per year ( in order to save him them embarrassment of a pay cut), but they will not offer him a third year guaranteed.  Obviously this will be a sticking point, and most likely cause his departure from the sox.

The Sox have adopted the mothod of developing talent from within, and building a cohesive team with the farm......yes, they will go after a big name or two ( Marc Tex), but they will not overpay for a player who is past his prime.  I suspect that Theo is working on a "bomb dropper", but other than that, the sox will use their homegrown talent to plug in players where they have holes.

Aside from injuries, the sox were one game away from going back to the world series, so I think they are in far better shape than people will give them credit for.

Expect for the Sox to contend for a title next year.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on November 15, 2008, 06:13:08 AM
  I think the sox will offer him 10 Mill per year ( in order to save him them embarrassment of a pay cut), but they will not offer him a third year guaranteed.  Obviously this will be a sticking point, and most likely cause his departure from the sox.

I totally agree about the third year.  I'm still not sure about going as high as 10m per.  Epstein can be shrewd.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: CalvinH on November 20, 2008, 08:50:39 AM
I really thought Mussina would come back :-\


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on November 20, 2008, 10:54:10 AM
I really thought Mussina would come back :-\

I didn't, he'd kind of been hinting at it. Hopefully, we don't need him because our rotation looks like this:

Sabathia
Wang
Chamberlain
Burnett
Hughes/Pettitte.

We'll see, though.  All depends on the FAs.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on December 03, 2008, 08:11:57 AM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzz

Somebody make a move already.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: CalvinH on December 03, 2008, 08:41:57 AM
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz zzzzzzzz

Somebody make a move already.



Hopefully some action at the winter meetings.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on December 03, 2008, 09:01:17 AM
I think with the economic situation everyone's facing nobody wants to set the market.  Once one of the big chips falls, this thing should heat up.

Many big name players were not offered arbitration, meaning teams are willing to let players walk with no draft pick compensation rather than risk having to pay them money that's not dictated by them.  Players like Dunn, Abreu, etc....

Could be an interesting situation.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: CalvinH on December 03, 2008, 09:05:03 AM
I think with the economic situation everyone's facing nobody wants to set the market.  Once one of the big chips falls, this thing should heat up.

Many big name players were not offered arbitration, meaning teams are willing to let players walk with no draft pick compensation rather than risk having to pay them money that's not dictated by them.  Players like Dunn, Abreu, etc....

Could be an interesting situation.



In todays paper it said that Sabbathia might just fall into the Yanks lap because no has made an offer besides the Brewers 100mil.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on December 03, 2008, 09:08:41 AM


In todays paper it said that Sabbathia might just fall into the Yanks lap because no has made an offer besides the Brewers 100mil.

Wouldn't bother me at all.  I think his preference is the West Coast, but he won't leave 40M on the table to get it.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: CalvinH on December 03, 2008, 09:22:38 AM
Wouldn't bother me at all.  I think his preference is the West Coast, but he won't leave 40M on the table to get it.



There's talk about the Braves giving Burnett 5 years.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on December 03, 2008, 09:25:25 AM


There's talk about the Braves giving Burnett 5 years.

If they do that, let them have him.  I think 5 years of Burnett is insane.  He just doesn't give you the innings.  And, if you look at his history, he seems to have his "least injured" years in walk years.

I would definitely take him for the 3-4 year range though.   Having AJ in the #4 slot would be insane.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: headhuntersix on December 03, 2008, 06:48:33 PM
I love this shit...I'm hoping the Sox pick up Lowe as it seems he wants back to Boston. It would appear their earlier move with Texas was to get either Saltilimachia (no idea on the SP) or the other kid. We need somebody to protect Oritiz so I hope they nail Texiera


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on December 04, 2008, 06:00:45 AM
Lowe and Teixeira would be great pickups for the sox.  The only issue being what to do with Lowell after Youkilis is moved to third.   Ideally, he could be a righty/lefty platoon with Ortiz, but I don't think either of them would go for that, and the sox probably don't want to have a 25-26M dollar DH.

Teixeira is reported to be only concerned with getting the maximum dollar amount.   If true, he could end up anywhere.  I think it will be either Anaheim,Boston, NY, or Baltimore.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: headhuntersix on December 04, 2008, 07:44:46 AM
One day I hear that and one day u hear he wants to win. If he goes to the friggen Nationals we know he's full of shit. Ortiz needs protection. It remains to be seen how injured he was or how much was Manny. I think he needs protection. His post season production was depressing. I was more excite to see Bay or Drew come up then him. Teixeira said he wants it done by Christmas so times ticking by.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: body88 on December 04, 2008, 08:02:28 AM
Lowe and Teixeira would be great pickups for the sox.  The only issue being what to do with Lowell after Youkilis is moved to third.   Ideally, he could be a righty/lefty platoon with Ortiz, but I don't think either of them would go for that, and the sox probably don't want to have a 25-26M dollar DH.

Teixeira is reported to be only concerned with getting the maximum dollar amount.   If true, he could end up anywhere.  I think it will be either Anaheim,Boston, NY, or Baltimore.

There is no way Lowe comes back to Boston.  The guy is a borderline drunk, and there is a reason they got rid of him.  Lowe could be seen puking in the trash buckets at Water Works on random weekend nights when he played in Boston.

The sox will trade Lowell if they get Tex (and I think they will). 


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: headhuntersix on December 04, 2008, 08:23:02 AM
I can only take ur word on that and there has to be some reason they let him walk but....we could use him. The more pitching the better. There is no telling how Becket will be and Dice-K's year was smoke and mirrors.  I'm not saying he can't do it again but he had a trainwreck on the basepads every other inning. I watched alot of baseball last year...it was very hard to relax with him on the mound.

2008 Season Stats
SPLITS G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO W L P/GS WHIP BAA ERA
Season 34 34 1 0 211.0 194 84 76 14 45 147 14 11 92.3 1.13 .246 3.24
Career 533 255 9 3 1940.1 1915 925 809 156 546 1275 126 107 93.2 1.27 .257 3.75



Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on December 04, 2008, 08:25:20 AM

The sox will trade Lowell if they get Tex (and I think they will). 

I don't know how many takers there are for a guy his age coming off hip surgery.   They would absolutely end up having to eat at a MINIMUM 5 million/year of his contract to move him, which, if you believe the numbers it would take to sign Teixeira, would make the total cost for Teixeira to be between 25-30 million/year until Lowell's contract is up.

That's a ton of money.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on December 04, 2008, 08:28:15 AM
One day I hear that and one day u hear he wants to win. If he goes to the friggen Nationals we know he's full of shit. Ortiz needs protection. It remains to be seen how injured he was or how much was Manny. I think he needs protection. His post season production was depressing. I was more excite to see Bay or Drew come up then him. Teixeira said he wants it done by Christmas so times ticking by.

Yes, if he ends up in somebody's shit system, we'll know the truth, but it's likely that those teams won't even try for him.  Baltimore may be the exception.

The sox definitely need another bat.  Ortiz may rebound somewhat, but I wouldn't bank on a total transformation.  Use guys like Bichette, Mo Vaughn, and Cecil Fielder as comps.  Once guys like that start getting hurt and getting older, it's hard for them to revert back to true form.




Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: body88 on December 05, 2008, 03:51:51 PM
I don't know how many takers there are for a guy his age coming off hip surgery.   They would absolutely end up having to eat at a MINIMUM 5 million/year of his contract to move him, which, if you believe the numbers it would take to sign Teixeira, would make the total cost for Teixeira to be between 25-30 million/year until Lowell's contract is up.

That's a ton of money.

Lowell has always had hip problems.  The sox have built with the farm, they will spend what it takes to make the correct move.  They payed Lugo millions to sit on the bench.   Someone will take Lowell, he is a great player, and he was producing at a very high level before he aggravated the hip.  I have not heard a word about Lowell not being the same after the surgery. 

The sox farm is the future. It produced many current starters, many studs and also produced two legit MVP candids (Dustin won the damn thing).  Guys like Tex are finishing touches for the new system. Pap, Dustin, Lester,Masterson and Youk are studs.  Jacobe, Delcarmen,Jet and Cora are all solid MLB players.  I still think Jacobe will develope in to a stud.  There is a ton of talent in the sox farm, and some of it will be showcased this year.

The only thing the sox really need (that the farm cannot provide a stop gap for) is a catcher.  That said, they def need to go after what's best for the tea, but they will still contend if they don't get anyone.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: body88 on December 05, 2008, 03:56:08 PM
I can only take ur word on that and there has to be some reason they let him walk but....we could use him. The more pitching the better. There is no telling how Becket will be and Dice-K's year was smoke and mirrors.  I'm not saying he can't do it again but he had a trainwreck on the basepads every other inning. I watched alot of baseball last year...it was very hard to relax with him on the mound.

2008 Season Stats
SPLITS G GS CG SHO IP H R ER HR BB SO W L P/GS WHIP BAA ERA
Season 34 34 1 0 211.0 194 84 76 14 45 147 14 11 92.3 1.13 .246 3.24
Career 533 255 9 3 1940.1 1915 925 809 156 546 1275 126 107 93.2 1.27 .257 3.75




We have pitching on the farm.  We are better than you think with no help at all.  Look at Masterson, Paplebon and Lester as proof.  We will go after a stud, but we are much stronger than you think with homegrown talent.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: CalvinH on December 09, 2008, 01:06:06 PM
Mets sign K-rod for 3 years.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: body88 on December 09, 2008, 02:49:28 PM
Sox = Tex and Burnett!  I hope!


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on December 09, 2008, 05:57:04 PM
KRod to the Mets was about as sure a thing as could be,  I think.

If the Sabathia ends up declining the Yankees' offer, Teixeira is going to be a lot richer, wherever he lands.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: CalvinH on December 10, 2008, 06:22:45 AM
CC just signed with the Yanks 8)


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on December 10, 2008, 06:37:55 AM
CC just signed with the Yanks 8)

Yeah baby.

Yankees strategy appeared to work well on this one - give him Johan money from the start to keep other teams from even entering the bidding.

Time to add Pettitte, one of the other FA pitchers, and a bat.






Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: mass 04 on December 10, 2008, 07:26:01 AM
I can't wait two years from now, when "C.C" is 600 lbs and has an era of 5.00 sweating Crisco in the summer. ;D


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on December 10, 2008, 07:30:25 AM
I hope NY doesn't sign Lowe.  I'd rather see them get one year out of Pettitte, and take a 2-3 year gamble on Sheets.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: body88 on December 10, 2008, 01:09:55 PM
I hope NY doesn't sign Lowe.  I'd rather see them get one year out of Pettitte, and take a 2-3 year gamble on Sheets.

It looks like the Yankees are going to be the New York Red Sox soon.  Interest and both Manny and Lowe!  It will be fun to see all the yanks fans claiming that they loved Manny all along, and that he is worth the monster contract they are going to give him.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: body88 on December 10, 2008, 01:12:37 PM
Yeah baby.

Yankees strategy appeared to work well on this one - give him Johan money from the start to keep other teams from even entering the bidding.

Time to add Pettitte, one of the other FA pitchers, and a bat.







You could look at it from that angle, or you could look at it like CC was doing everything he could not to play in NYC.  CC blatantly told the Dodgers that he wanted to play for them, and he gave them over three weeks to try and scrape the cash together to sign him.  In the end the dodgers couldn't generate the money needed to sign CC, and he went with the Yankees.  Not only that, he leveraged a third guaranteed year after the Yankees boched at the concept.  You could look at it as the PA telling him not to leave 60 million on the table.

A good sign no doubt, but it seems like CC didn't want to be a Yankee.  I think that might count for something when the going gets tough, and it will.  It was a solid sign though, and money is no object so I say A for the Yankees first move.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: CalvinH on December 10, 2008, 05:19:17 PM
Yanks just made an offer to A.J.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on December 10, 2008, 07:01:35 PM

You could look at it from that angle, or you could look at it like CC was doing everything he could not to play in NYC.  CC blatantly told the Dodgers that he wanted to play for them, and he gave them over three weeks to try and scrape the cash together to sign him.  In the end the dodgers couldn't generate the money needed to sign CC, and he went with the Yankees.  Not only that, he leveraged a third guaranteed year after the Yankees boched at the concept.  You could look at it as the PA telling him not to leave 60 million on the table.

A good sign no doubt, but it seems like CC didn't want to be a Yankee.  I think that might count for something when the going gets tough, and it will.  It was a solid sign though, and money is no object so I say A for the Yankees first move.

There's a difference between not wanting to play somewhere and not having it be your first choice.  Do I think, all things being equal, he would choose LA or SF over NY?  Probably.  But if he really didn't want to play in NY he could have declined the offer, which would have created opportunity for other teams to negotiate, or accepted the one from the Brewers who indicated they may have gone up to 125.  That would probably mean leaving about 15-20 on the table, which nobody would fault him for.  The Yankees went for the 7th year and 160 because Sabathia wanted to beat Johan's contract, which also points to the direction that it really is all about the money with these guys, and they will most likely take that over anything.

CC's got the makeup to handle NY.  The Dodgers never had a formal meeting with CC, just a passing conversation in the lobby.  I think it came out that it was overblown.

The Dodgers thi


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on December 11, 2008, 06:32:28 AM
Yanks just made an offer to A.J.

I'm having a hard time believing the Yankees would offer him 5 years, but they just might.

Some other good news - it appears the Yankees have swapped Melky Cabrerra for Mike Cameron.  If so, that's a big offensive upgrade, a defensive wash, and a short contract that will pave the way for Austin Jackson in a year.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on December 12, 2008, 04:26:41 PM

.  It is realistic to theorize that the Yankees starting rotation could be Sabathia, Wang, Chamberlain, Burnett, Hughes next year, or some combination of that.  Hank wants to spend money, and, if it's spent WISELY, the Yankees will be right back at it, with a young rotation that could last them years.


Wish I bet money on this quote.......



Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: body88 on December 23, 2008, 10:46:02 AM
Tex to the sox?  How does this starting this lineup look!?  Couple tha with the added pitching they have coming up from the farm, and I think the sox are favorites to win the East.....if it happens of course.

1. Ellsbury
2. Padrioa
3. David Ortiz
4. Texiera
5. Youkolis 
6. Jason Bay
7. Jd Drew
8. Lowery
9. Tek


Starting Pitching:
Beckett
Lester
Dice K
Masterson
Wakfield/Bowdein/Buckholz/Lowe (thats what I'm hearing),Smoltz, Bird



Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: body88 on December 23, 2008, 12:23:36 PM
The Yankees get Tex? Holy smokes!


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: CalvinH on December 23, 2008, 01:37:35 PM
The Yankees get Tex? Holy smokes!


 ;D



I'm gonna try to download some pics I took at Fenway this year.my company has great seats behind home plate.it was from the night Halliday was lights out.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: body88 on December 23, 2008, 01:44:05 PM

 ;D



I'm gonna try to download some pics I took at Fenway this year.my company has great seats behind home plate.it was from the night Halliday was lights out.

Just remember Yankees fans, how much money did Tampa spend to win the pennet last year?  Less than what JD Drew makes in one season  :P :-X  I cannot fathom that the Yankees have already spent 400 million dollars, lol.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: CalvinH on December 23, 2008, 01:52:12 PM
Just remember Yankees fans, how much money did Tampa spend to win the pennet last year?  Less than what JD Drew makes in one season  :P :-X  I cannot fathom that the Yankees have already spent 400 million dollars, lol.


It really is nuts when you think about it,and then consider it's still close to last years payroll :-X :-\


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Doug_Steele on December 23, 2008, 02:26:12 PM
How much does a decent seat go for to see the yanks play?


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: body88 on December 23, 2008, 03:28:07 PM

It really is nuts when you think about it,and then consider it's still close to last years payroll :-X :-\


True dat (ha-ha).  I'm not going to hate on the yanks, but its amazing how much money they are willing to spend.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: CalvinH on December 24, 2008, 08:19:00 AM
How much does a decent seat go for to see the yanks play?



Not sure about the new stadium.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: CalvinH on December 24, 2008, 08:20:09 AM

True dat (ha-ha).  I'm not going to hate on the yanks, but its amazing how much money they are willing to spend.


As of right now their payroll is 20mil less than last year.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: body88 on December 24, 2008, 09:09:24 AM

As of right now their payroll is 20mil less than last year.

And?  Look at the salaries of Arod, CC, Jeter and Tex alone.  Imo the Yankees need to spend more time developing their own players, because the spending tactic has not worked for them over the last 8 years.  The Yankees ain't done yet, they are going to go after Manny to.

I can see the sox letting the Yanks blow their load in FA and dealing some of their many prospects to make some trades.  They really don't need all that much right now.  They do need a big bat long term though.  Although this Lars Anderson kid they have is supposed to be a Tex type hitter.

Also, the Redsox no longer have the second highest payroll in baseball.  Many teams outspend them now.  The gap is not even really close either way.


Yankees $209,081,579 $6,744,567
Tigers $138,685,197 $4,622,840
Mets $138,293,378 $4,609,779
Red Sox $133,440,037 $4,765,716
White Sox $121,152,667 $4,487,136
Angels $119,216,333 $4,110,908
Cubs $118,595,833 $4,392,438
Dodgers $118,536,038 $4,233,430
Mariners $117,993,982 $4,538,230
Braves $102,424,018 $3,414,134
Cardinals $100,624,450 $3,049,226
Blue Jays $98,641,957 $3,522,927
Phillies $98,269,881 $3,388,617


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Doug_Steele on December 24, 2008, 10:49:22 AM
And?  Look at the salaries of Arod, CC, Jeter and Tex alone.  Imo the Yankees need to spend more time developing their own players, because the spending tactic has not worked for them over the last 8 years.  The Yankees ain't done yet, they are going to go after Manny to.

I can see the sox letting the Yanks blow their load in FA and dealing some of their many prospects to make some trades.  They really don't need all that much right now.  They do need a big bat long term though.  Although this Lars Anderson kid they have is supposed to be a Tex type hitter.

Also, the Redsox no longer have the second highest payroll in baseball.  Many teams outspend them now.  The gap is not even really close either way.


Yankees $209,081,579 $6,744,567
Tigers $138,685,197 $4,622,840
Mets $138,293,378 $4,609,779
Red Sox $133,440,037 $4,765,716
White Sox $121,152,667 $4,487,136
Angels $119,216,333 $4,110,908
Cubs $118,595,833 $4,392,438
Dodgers $118,536,038 $4,233,430
Mariners $117,993,982 $4,538,230
Braves $102,424,018 $3,414,134
Cardinals $100,624,450 $3,049,226
Blue Jays $98,641,957 $3,522,927
Phillies $98,269,881 $3,388,617


Damn, my Tigers are 2nd in payroll and they put a shitty product out on the field last year..


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: CalvinH on December 24, 2008, 11:18:06 AM
How much does a decent seat go for to see the yanks play?


The Yanks are selling tickets to one of their preseason games against the Cubs for the same prices that were charged in 1923 :D


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: body88 on December 24, 2008, 03:40:01 PM
Damn, my Tigers are 2nd in payroll and they put a shitty product out on the field last year..


Exactly why spending as much as you can on big names wont work without homegrown depth.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Doug_Steele on December 24, 2008, 03:50:23 PM

Exactly why spending as much as you can on big names wont work without homegrown depth.

We had some good homegrown talent with our pitchers but i know we went out and got Sheffield, Ordonez and Willis.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: body88 on December 24, 2008, 08:45:23 PM
We had some good homegrown talent with our pitchers but i know we went out and got Sheffield, Ordonez and Willis.

No Question, but my point is that in todays MLB there is more value in developing your own players than tossing tons of cash at a bunch of free agents.  Over the last few years, the sox most clutch guys were the ones they grew on their own.  The Yankees are going to be very good, but teams like the Rays will be just as good with their own talent, and teams built this way have more ability to band together as a team unit when the going get tough in the playoffs.  Like it or not, big time FA's have big egos, and if the pat and paste method worked the Yankees would have 8 titles over the last decade.  Further more, the strongest Yankee teams were nothing like their current mega rosters.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on December 26, 2008, 06:00:11 AM
Just remember Yankees fans, how much money did Tampa spend to win the pennet last year? 

Yes, the Rays were really good last year, and will be for a few years. 

But, remember, the only way they were able to get that that point was to finish last for 10 years and get the #1 or so pick in the draft.    That's not the way any other wants to/can afford to build a baseball team.  It's an anomaly.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: body88 on December 26, 2008, 11:38:22 AM
Yes, the Rays were really good last year, and will be for a few years. 

But, remember, the only way they were able to get that that point was to finish last for 10 years and get the #1 or so pick in the draft.    That's not the way any other wants to/can afford to build a baseball team.  It's an anomaly.


Neither is spending 400+ million on a bunch of allstars.  It's a healthy medium of both.  Considering the Yankees results over the last 8 years, it would be an anomaly if their spending worked this year.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on December 27, 2008, 04:08:23 PM
Neither is spending 400+ million on a bunch of allstars.  It's a healthy medium of both.  Considering the Yankees results over the last 8 years, it would be an anomaly if their spending worked this year.

No, it wouldn't.  This year, they spent their money on prospects who are young and in their statistical prime.  They spent it on players who were elite at their positions.  It's not being spent on aging ex-steroid users and old, broken down pitchers.

Adding that to a team is not detrimental.  The money's irrelevant if you can afford it.  The Yankees did not lose since '00 because they signed a few expensive free agents.  They lost because they spent the money poorly, had a lot of injuries, didn't develop a good enough pitching staff, and had some bad luck.

But, to your point about having a mix., they do have a great combination of home grown talent combined with them.  If Pettitte comes back or they go with Hughes OR Kennedy as their #5, 3 out of their 5 starters, their closer, some middle relief and 4 of 9 position players are all from the farm.  That comes to over 40% of the 25 man roster.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Escher on December 29, 2008, 02:10:18 PM
Neither is spending 400+ million on a bunch of allstars.  It's a healthy medium of both.  Considering the Yankees results over the last 8 years, it would be an anomaly if their spending worked this year.

Why would spending work vs not work?  It all comes down to the players being acquired, not how they're acquired.  I've read that spending is what's responsible for no WS for the Yanks since 2000, which makes absolutely no sense.  What's been responsible is what is usually responsible: lack of good pitching combined with awful luck.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: body88 on December 29, 2008, 04:00:15 PM
Why would spending work vs not work?  It all comes down to the players being acquired, not how they're acquired.  I've read that spending is what's responsible for no WS for the Yanks since 2000, which makes absolutely no sense.  What's been responsible is what is usually responsible: lack of good pitching combined with awful luck.

That and spending a ton of money on players that didn't help them win anything.  Do you think a big name FA is going to play as hard day in and day out as a very talented player who was brought up from the farm?  When big stars get their millions a lot of them get lazy.  Saying bad luck has to do with the Yankees woes is an excuse.  This is a pro team, with pro scouts and a rich history.  Spending a ton of money on free agents simply has not worked for them thus far.  Every team in the MLB can cite bad luck as their reason for losing......thats an excuse, and one that would get you laughed out of every MLB dugout.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Escher on December 29, 2008, 05:44:40 PM
That and spending a ton of money on players that didn't help them win anything.  Do you think a big name FA is going to play as hard day in and day out as a very talented player who was brought up from the farm? 

Of course they do.  Derek Jeter has one of the biggest contracts in baseball and whether you love him or hate him you can't ever claim he doesn't play every single out of every game he's in.  Oh, I get it - he's "homegrown" so he's immune to money, then?  Please.  This is just fan crap - the tough, gritty home town guy vs the big, bad mercenary who doesn't care.  Funny, Manny Ramirez and Keith Foulke seemed to work out just fine for Boston in '04.  I guess they forgot they weren't homegrown.
When big stars get their millions a lot of them get lazy. 

Of course.  I'm sure you have reams of data backing this up, too.

Saying bad luck has to do with the Yankees woes is an excuse.  This is a pro team, with pro scouts and a rich history.  Spending a ton of money on free agents simply has not worked for them thus far.  Every team in the MLB can cite bad luck as their reason for losing......thats an excuse, and one that would get you laughed out of every MLB dugout.

When I say "bad luck" I'm pointing to the vagaries of baseball, not a "woe-is-us" line of argument.  Wang getting hurt running the basepaths in an interleague game is bad luck, for example.  Our lineup collectively having a down year due to injuries and lack of hitting in high leverage spots is luck.  Yes, all teams have to deal with it, and some times your team gets hit with it harder than others.  Not meant as an excuse, just a factor for any sport.  It's why every prediction for any team always starts out with "if they stay healthy..."

The point is trying to argue that the Yankees haven't won because they've signed expensive players is just silly.  It's applying the same value to a CC Sabathia as you would a Carl Pavano.  We've seen all different types of teams, homegrown, FA heavy, players traded for, win championships.  The fact that the Yankees didn't make the playoffs for the FIRST TIME since 1995 suggests that actually, their player acquisition has worked out quite well for the most part.  Winning a WS is not easy, regardless of who is on your roster.  The other team is talented and they want to win too.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: mass 04 on January 07, 2009, 09:06:54 PM
according to "ESPN" the Red sox are close to signing Smoltz.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: CalvinH on January 08, 2009, 11:49:06 AM
according to "ESPN" the Red sox are close to signing Smoltz.



Looks like a done deal.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on January 08, 2009, 12:32:08 PM
Great upside if he can bounce back.

41 years olds coming of labrum surgury is a risk not too many teams could afford, but the sox can, so it's a good move.

After this and the Penny signing, I'm guessing Bucchholz is not in the plans right now.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: body88 on January 08, 2009, 12:48:33 PM
Great upside if he can bounce back.

41 years olds coming of labrum surgury is a risk not too many teams could afford, but the sox can, so it's a good move.

After this and the Penny signing, I'm guessing Bucchholz is not in the plans right now.

Depends, imo.  They need all the pitching they can get.  Maybe they are trying to work a deal, and Clay is the guy to go if that happens.


Title: Re: Hot Stove thread.
Post by: Grape Ape on January 08, 2009, 01:01:54 PM
Depends, imo.  They need all the pitching they can get.  Maybe they are trying to work a deal, and Clay is the guy to go if that happens.

I actually just posted that on my main board.  I was thinking of the rumored  Bucchholz for Saltilamaccia deals.

Somebody mentioned rumors of a Wakefield retirement.  I haven't heard this before, have you?