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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Positive Bodybuilding Discussion & Talk => Topic started by: Disgusted on November 19, 2008, 07:37:11 PM
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OK, this little article is being written in part because of the recent thread on the G%O board and the debate that I and others have had with Adam concerning his so called diet principles. These are my opinions based on many many years of either first hand research and working very closely with others. There are many different scenarios when it comes to dieting. For example, I may be working with a bber precontest or I may be working with an obese person or I may be working with an obese diabetic or maybe it an off season bber.
Let me state here that I am NOT against eating carbs. They are very good for you and taste great too. :D ;D but I may and most likely will at some time or another cut them down, in fact way down to zero at times. When dieting someone down for a contest I "use" carbs and I mean that in such a way that someone would use and ex girlfriend for sex. I am exploiting them and their abilities for what they can do to the body, get it now. ;)
I really hate to see people being mislead. I can see how anyone would ever think that eating McDonalds everday can be healthy. Although I agree in the purist sense of the definitions that there is no such thing as "junk food", but we all use the term so I think that it is OK. Food is food, it is something that the human body can use as nourishment. Junk on the other hand it something that does not supply or even robs the body of nutrients without giving something back. So there is a lot of sugar in some foods such as the food served at McDonalds. There is also other things such as chemicals. Now even if you did not care about the chemicals, when you are trying to keep track of your diet in a precise manner such as a bber there is no way of knowing exactly how much your body is being robbed of nutrients and how it is affecting you fat loss. It becomes a guessing game. If you are eating say a half pound of sugar a day from sugar laden food you are seriously throwing a monkey wrench onto your plans. IMO there is no reason what so ever to put something into your body on a daily basis that is that unhealthy for you. Remember, sugar gives nothing back and robs you in return!!
I wish that it was as simple as just eating X amount of protein and the rest of the calories in any form that you want and get ripped. Now before anyone comes on here and gives me the what about this guy example, let me tell you that I know plenty of skinny muscular looking guys who eat very little and drink a case of beer a nite. If you ask these guys how they got that way they may tell you to do what they are doing. Do you think that it would work? It might but I doubt it. It's kinda like a really short guy walking up to a really tall guy and asking him how he can be tall like him. Just because a guy is very lean does not mean he will know how to make everyone like he is!!!
Anyone can lose "weight" at least for a while on 2000 calories per day. This is not to say that they are building muscle or even maintaining it either. Even though dieting is not rocket science there are some basic rules to follow. There basic rules apply to everyone, but they can and eventually will need to be adjusted to keep the weightloss going. The leaner you get the harder it is to get any leaner. It is not normal for your body to sit at 4% BF. It will do everything that it can to stop you from getting there, it's basic survival.
Protein, you need it to live and build muscle. I recommend 1 and up to 1.5 gr per pound at times.
Fats, you need them to live. I usually never count them cause I get them in a correct ratio form the protein that I use.
Carbs you DO NOT need them to live. You need glucose and you body can get that elsewhere.
Dieting is actually very simple once you catch on a realize what ratios work for you. Once you get ripped or at least very lean I suggest that you add in the correct amount of carbs for your body and what it can handle. Cheat days are OK once a week and you can maintain your level of BF by doing that. In fact, a my clients eat whatever they want during contest prep once per week. I am going to end this here for now, but will add more later. Feel free to ask questions if you like.
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spot on (again) Jim
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I dont think theres much u can add there, because like AVBG said, your spot on bro.
Just one question. Whats your view on cardio in the offseason?? I already know what it is, but i think others would like to know.
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I dont think theres much u can add there, because like AVBG said, your spot on bro.
Just one question. Whats your view on cardio in the offseason?? I already know what it is, but i think others would like to know.
There really is no need for it in short. Some people chose to do some and that is OK TOO. Up to the person.
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Jim ...........just want you to know I think it is great what you are doing here. You have so much to teach and to share......I learned a ton from you and you helped me so much during a hard time.
I worked with Jim , and it was after my 2nd back surgery . I was miserable and in my worst shape ever. I mean, I couldn't even look in the mirror. In a short time he knocked 40 lbs off me and kept me regaining some of the muscle that had wilted away ......Sadly ,I wasn't able to finish what I started with him[still want to ] .And I still had a ways to go .[maybe 20 -30 lbs ] But I learned a ton and was able to totally change my body comp over time ,using things I learned from JIm.
No ass kissing here fellas , just fact . Jim is a person that has what I would call a " feel " or a talent for the game . He knows what works and how and when to apply it . And yes , there are more ways to "skin a cat " but I have been around the game for along time. Rubbed elbows with some pros and top amatures in my day . As well some top trainers and gurus . And in all honestly , Jim is very ,very good at what he does. And think about this, King has worked everyone in the sport . From Milos to Chad .[ and everyone in between] .Why and this point would he be using JIM when he needs to be at his all time best ? Simple , because he trusts JIM over everyone else that he can get him to his biggest , best , and most conditioned........
I am not even sure what Jim's opinion is of me or if he would even want to ever work with me again. [I guess pm me big guy.....also if you have a camera phone I could send you a few pics and you can see you taught me well ....lol.....it 's alot different from what you started with before ...lol...bigger ,leaner , and yes, clean........not where I want to be ...but much ,much better]
Whether you pm me or not JIM.......good stuff here bro.......keep it up ......guys take advantage of his knowledge and character [ a rare trait in the bbing world] .........My best to you and your family ...........
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There really is no need for it in short. Some people chose to do some and that is OK TOO. Up to the person.
K one more question.
Whats ur view on a targeted keto diet in the offseason, where u only eat carbs before training, during training, and after training, and if ur lean enough, the meal after the pwo meal.
U ever know of anyone who has done this with success gaining mass in the offseason.
I know alot of people are starting to recommend this type of diet, what do u think??
Or should one just K.I.S.S ???
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Jim ...........just want you to know I think it is great what you are doing here. You have so much to teach and to share......I learned a ton from you and you helped me so much during a hard time.
I worked with Jim , and it was after my 2nd back surgery . I was miserable and in my worst shape ever. I mean, I couldn't even look in the mirror. In a short time he knocked 40 lbs off me and kept me regaining some of the muscle that had wilted away ......Sadly ,I wasn't able to finish what I started with him[still want to ] .And I still had a ways to go .[maybe 20 -30 lbs ] But I learned a ton and was able to totally change my body comp over time ,using things I learned from JIm.
No ass kissing here fellas , just fact . Jim is a person that has what I would call a " feel " or a talent for the game . He knows what works and how and when to apply it . And yes , there are more ways to "skin a cat " but I have been around the game for along time. Rubbed elbows with some pros and top amatures in my day . As well some top trainers and gurus . And in all honestly , Jim is very ,very good at what he does. And think about this, King has worked everyone in the sport . From Milos to Chad .[ and everyone in between] .Why and this point would he be using JIM when he needs to be at his all time best ? Simple , because he trusts JIM over everyone else that he can get him to his biggest , best , and most conditioned........
I am not even sure what Jim's opinion is of me or if he would even want to ever work with me again. [I guess pm me big guy.....also if you have a camera phone I could send you a few pics and you can see you taught me well ....lol.....it 's alot different from what you started with before ...lol...bigger ,leaner , and yes, clean........not where I want to be ...but much ,much better]
Whether you pm me or not JIM.......good stuff here bro.......keep it up ......guys take advantage of his knowledge and character [ a rare trait in the bbing world] .........My best to you and your family ...........
WTF!!!!!!!! Where have you been bro? Good to hear from you and thank you so much for the kind words. Yes you did make some awesome improvements when we worked together!! YOU came a long way from where you started at but you know, it's one step at a time and never too later to start again. Hell man, you got it in you and you know it! I hope all has been well with you and yes I will PM you. :)
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Awesome my friend ......the words were true and heartfelt without a doubt .......love to finish what we started right after the first of the year.........shoot me your number and I will send you some pics ....it much different this time.....lol.........I will look forward to your pm.....you made my night........it been a rough number of years for me .....time to take care of me for awhile .....shoot me prices and such......I will send you payment before x=mass and we can start after the first of the year.........it will be way easier this time around .....ha ha ......take care bro....
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Jim ...........just want you to know I think it is great what you are doing here. You have so much to teach and to share......I learned a ton from you and you helped me so much during a hard time.
I worked with Jim , and it was after my 2nd back surgery . I was miserable and in my worst shape ever. I mean, I couldn't even look in the mirror. In a short time he knocked 40 lbs off me and kept me regaining some of the muscle that had wilted away ......Sadly ,I wasn't able to finish what I started with him[still want to ] .And I still had a ways to go .[maybe 20 -30 lbs ] But I learned a ton and was able to totally change my body comp over time ,using things I learned from JIm.
No ass kissing here fellas , just fact . Jim is a person that has what I would call a " feel " or a talent for the game . He knows what works and how and when to apply it . And yes , there are more ways to "skin a cat " but I have been around the game for along time. Rubbed elbows with some pros and top amatures in my day . As well some top trainers and gurus . And in all honestly , Jim is very ,very good at what he does. And think about this, King has worked everyone in the sport . From Milos to Chad .[ and everyone in between] .Why and this point would he be using JIM when he needs to be at his all time best ? Simple , because he trusts JIM over everyone else that he can get him to his biggest , best , and most conditioned........
I am not even sure what Jim's opinion is of me or if he would even want to ever work with me again. [I guess pm me big guy.....also if you have a camera phone I could send you a few pics and you can see you taught me well ....lol.....it 's alot different from what you started with before ...lol...bigger ,leaner , and yes, clean........not where I want to be ...but much ,much better]
Whether you pm me or not JIM.......good stuff here bro.......keep it up ......guys take advantage of his knowledge and character [ a rare trait in the bbing world] .........My best to you and your family ...........
Great post... I sympathize with the back issue..
Rarely come along a guy that nobody has anything negative to say... especially in this industry...
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Awesome my friend ......the words were true and heartfelt without a doubt .......love to finish what we started right after the first of the year.........shoot me your number and I will send you some pics ....it much different this time.....lol.........I will look forward to your pm.....you made my night........it been a rough number of years for me .....time to take care of me for awhile .....shoot me prices and such......I will send you payment before x=mass and we can start after the first of the year.........it will be way easier this time around .....ha ha ......take care bro....
good luck attaining your goals bro!
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Thanks Alex and flexingtonsteel .......I appreciate your remarks ......I am mainly a lurker here .....but both of you have my respect and are a big part of GET BIG........have your fun guys.....but stay positive guys .....you will learn more in the end........Jim is wealth of knowledge ....Alex you do make me laugh at times ....so thank you
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Thanks Alex and flexingtonsteel .......I appreciate your remarks ......I am mainly a lurker here .....but both of you have my respect and are a big part of GET BIG........have your fun guys.....but stay positive guys .....you will learn more in the end........Jim is wealth of knowledge ....Alex you do make me laugh at times ....so thank you
haha, thank you. I dont know if thats a good thing or a bad thing though ( being a getbig "fixture" lol )
And of course ill keep it positive. Im the mod of this board ;D
But since ur friends with jim, stick around bro and post on this board, we'd love to have ya! A friend of jims is a friend of mine :)
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edit: deleted content of that post because it was already discussed on the main forum
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Hey Jim, regarding cheat days, would you recomend cheating on an off day or a training day, or it really doesn't matter?
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Hey Jim, regarding cheat days, would you recomend cheating on an off day or a training day, or it really doesn't matter?
Good question. Sometimes it is tuff to cheat an then train. IF you are going to say use Saturday as a cheat day then I would train first.
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Jim, what's your opinion on never going "OFF" like my friend Dizzle was suggesting me in another thread
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well you said it sucks to be off !
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well you said it sucks to be off !
it does :D
I just want to see Jim's opinion on that. a devil on my shoulder is telling me to do that ;D
8)
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disgusted
can you post up some sample diets?
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Good question. Sometimes it is tuff to cheat an then train. IF you are going to say use Saturday as a cheat day then I would train first.
Thanks for the response man!
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Good stuff Jim...........my diet philosophy to a "T".
Iabadman,how`s it going bud.........hope all is well.
Tim Wescott
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disgusted
can you post up some sample diets?
people pay him for that, I don't think it's OK to ask him to post a diet here
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Disgusted, what's your opinion about the high carb, very low fat diet used by people such as jrod and Alex A? How does it compare to your diet approach when used by a natural bber?
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Disgusted, what's your opinion about the high carb, very low fat diet used by people such as jrod and Alex A? How does it compare to your diet approach when used by a natural bber?
I have trained plenty of natural guy and there is no reason for me to train them any differently than the others, low carb is what I always prefer.
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I have trained plenty of natural guy and there is no reason for me to train them any differently than the others, low carb is what I always prefer.
I know you've trained natural guys, what I meant was along the lines of - would a very low fat diet be less suitable for naturals because of the need for fats for hormone production? Is this one of the reasons for your dieting approach?
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jim...........where does tequila and chicken wings fit into this? ;)
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Nice post. Very informative and to the point. I for one can really use the info. I don't compete but I like to lean up during certain times of the year and am very interested in different theories on how to lean up without dropping to much mass. Thanks for the info and I'll be on the lookout for more.
Pat
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jim...........where does tequila and chicken wings fit into this? ;)
:o Hmmmm I just got that. >:( The answer obviously is that they don't. ;D
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I know I posted this in another thread, but regarding Palumbo's approach and yours....do you share his thoughts as far as zero carb, or do you prefer to allow some during the day. He also only advocates ONE cheat meal whereas you advocate a day (or at most 2 - 3 meals?).
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thats a awesome article
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I know I posted this in another thread, but regarding Palumbo's approach and yours....do you share his thoughts as far as zero carb, or do you prefer to allow some during the day. He also only advocates ONE cheat meal whereas you advocate a day (or at most 2 - 3 meals?).
Pretty much zero except some trace amounts here and there. Yes a total cheat day.
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Pretty much zero except some trace amounts here and there. Yes a total cheat day.
you care about carbs in eggs, nuts, veggies, ect ect ?
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Pretty much zero except some trace amounts here and there. Yes a total cheat day.
We are all very curious on your training thoughts Jim (from the other thread). Oh, and regarding the trace amounts...is that off season as well?
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We are all very curious on your training thoughts Jim (from the other thread). Oh, and regarding the trace amounts...is that off season as well?
how you going to grow if your worrying about 'trace carbs' ?? lmao
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Nice post. Very informative and to the point. I for one can really use the info. I don't compete but I like to lean up during certain times of the year and am very interested in different theories on how to lean up without dropping to much mass. Thanks for the info and I'll be on the lookout for more.
Pat
I guess that's summer time..hi hi ;D
I'm a little new here, but noticed every time "Disgusted" talks, there is something to learn. :)
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how you going to grow if your worrying about 'trace carbs' ?? lmao
Let me guess.....you're a permabulker?
Its all about learning....you might want to consider it.
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Pretty much zero except some trace amounts here and there. Yes a total cheat day.
Just curious,if you were working with a drug free athlete (do you ever do that?), would you still have him go that low on carbs. Seems like naturals go flatter much easier than someone who is on a good dose of androgens. I know I have trouble getting a pump and I get a very flat deflated look to my muscles on low carbs (50 grams or less.) About 100 grams a day seems to work pretty good for me when leaning out. Any suggestions?
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Just curious,if you were working with a drug free athlete (do you ever do that?), would you still have him go that low on carbs. Seems like naturals go flatter much easier than someone who is on a good dose of androgens. I know I have trouble getting a pump and I get a very flat deflated look to my muscles on low carbs (50 grams or less.) About 100 grams a day seems to work pretty good for me when leaning out. Any suggestions?
I think Jim said in his other thread that he does recommend it for naturals.
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I think Jim said in his other thread that he does recommend it for naturals.
Thanks.
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I know I posted this in another thread, but regarding Palumbo's approach and yours....do you share his thoughts as far as zero carb, or do you prefer to allow some during the day. He also only advocates ONE cheat meal whereas you advocate a day (or at most 2 - 3 meals?).
I think the keto diet/palumbo recommends 2 full days with lots of carbs, but only 1 meal can be whatever you want. So it's not only 1 carb meal a weak.
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Makes no difference if you are natural or not. Cheat days is all day for one day, been doing it this way for over 15 years. I first stating playing around with zero carb back around 1982 in high school while I was gettin ready for my first show.
Off season just add carbs, but never too many that you get fat. Pretty simple.
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Makes no difference if you are natural or not. Cheat days is all day for one day, been doing it this way for over 15 years. I first stating playing around with zero carb back around 1982 in high school while I was gettin ready for my first show.
Off season just add carbs, but never too many that you get fat. Pretty simple.
What is a good or general bodyfat percentage you feel naturals to stay at off season?
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What is a good or general bodyfat percentage you feel naturals to stay at off season?
Hard to say since BF levels are measured against lean tissue so one person will measure at a lower percentage with the same amount of fat but at a higher amount of muscle. Go by the mirror and don't lie to yourself, visible abs is usually a good reference point.
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The part I don't get Disgusted is that you don't carb up your "athletes" the days before a show...
How can you achieve fullness without carbs ???
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The part I don't get Disgusted is that you don't carb up your "athletes" the days before a show...
How can you achieve fullness without carbs ???
I'll answer that in a little more detail when I get time but let me ask you this, why would carbs make you full?
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The part I don't get Disgusted is that you don't carb up your "athletes" the days before a show...
How can you achieve fullness without carbs ???
I dont think jim ever said he doesnt carb up his guys, jims guys eat carbs and ALOT of them..... Just not everyday!! And its not your traditional carb up either
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Jim how much do you typically charge for contest prep?
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Jim how much do you typically charge for contest prep?
he charged me ONE MILLION DOLLARS!!!!
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Hard to say since BF levels are measured against lean tissue so one person will measure at a lower percentage with the same amount of fat but at a higher amount of muscle. Go by the mirror and don't lie to yourself, visible abs is usually a good reference point.
So, what are your thoughs on the way Lyle felt a workout should be like when doing keto-style dieting (get back into ketosis as fast as possible via heavy workouts on the frist 2 - 3 days of week) then a 'depletion' workout prior to starting carb up? On a personal note, I really liked the first two workouts of the week after my carb-ups....but never really felt that 'dragging ass' type of feel toward end of week. Also, I felt the 'depletion' workouts were a pain in the ass and werent anything that would help me grow.
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I'll answer that in a little more detail when I get time but let me ask you this, why would carbs make you full?
Glycogen storage in the muscle tissues.
Deplete and deplete the body then he overcompensates. Isn't it how the body works?
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Glycogen storage in the muscle tissues.
Deplete, deplete the body then he overcompensate. Isn't it how the body works?
yeah... but obviously jim knows something we dont. thats why pros will go to him for help.
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Does this mean anything? :D
Int J Sport Nutr. 1992 Dec;2(4):328-34.Links
Effects of carbohydrate loading and weight-lifting on muscle girth.
Balon TW, Horowitz JF, Fitzsimmons KM.
Dept. of Diabetes, City of Hope Medical Center, Duarte, CA 91010.
Bodybuilders have used different carbohydrate loading regimens in conjunction with resistance exercise prior to competition in the belief that this would result in increased muscle size. To investigate this possibility, muscle girth measurements were obtained from nine weight-trained males before and after a control (standard isocaloric diet) and an experimental trial (carbohydrate loading). The latter regimen consisted of 3 days of intense weight-lifting while the subjects ingested a diet of 10% carbohydrate (CHO), 57% fat (F), and 33% protein (P), followed by 3 days of light weight-lifting and a day of rest while ingesting a diet of 80% CHO, 5% F, and 15% P. The control trial consisted of an identical weight-lifting regimen while subjects ingested an isocaloric (45 kcal/kg BW/day) diet. Body weight and girths (forearm, upper arm, chest, thigh, waist, and calf) were obtained before and after each trial in a relaxed and flexed state. The results indicate that an exercise/carbohydrate loading regimen had no significant effect on muscle girth as compared to the control trial. It is concluded that CHO loading has no additional advantage to enhancing muscle girth in bodybuilders over weight-lifting alone.
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Does this mean anything? :D
Well....three days of low carb then another three days of their 'loading' probably WOULDNT show anything IMO. Hit low carb for 5 - 6 days with a 'load' then tell us you dont experience a difference in circumference.
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Jim how much do you typically charge for contest prep?
Sorry for the late reply bro. I am currently not training people anymore.
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Well....three days of low carb then another three days of their 'loading' probably WOULDNT show anything IMO. Hit low carb for 5 - 6 days with a 'load' then tell us you dont experience a difference in circumference.
Why would circumference matter anyway? It would be minimal. Carbs sodium and water will make a huge difference in as little as a couple of hours. ;)
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Sorry for the late reply bro. I am currently not training people anymore.
King isn't a person?
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King isn't a person?
No he's a mutant. ;)
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Why would circumference matter anyway? It would be minimal. Carbs sodium and water will make a huge difference in as little as a couple of hours. ;)
Only reason I brought up circumference was the study that was quoted talked about muscle 'girth'.