Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums

Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Sports Discussion Boards => Topic started by: mass 04 on December 28, 2008, 05:00:50 PM



Title: "Brett Favre"
Post by: mass 04 on December 28, 2008, 05:00:50 PM
is the most overrated QB in history.
Discuss


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: body88 on December 28, 2008, 05:02:02 PM
is the most overrated QB in history.
Discuss

20 ints and 20 td's yet he's in the pro bowl over rivers  ::)


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Tre on December 28, 2008, 05:04:37 PM
I can't really call him overrated, but he's gotten too much credit just because he's a 'good guy'.

I like the guy, though.  He's the kid who wasn't that smart in school, but you rooted for him anyway, because he was a hard worker and came from a good family. 

...

But at least he showed up to play today, unlike Romo and the 'Girls.



Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: body88 on December 28, 2008, 05:05:31 PM
I can't really call him overrated, but he's gotten too much credit just because he's a 'good guy'.

I like the guy, though.  He's the kid who wasn't that smart in school, but you rooted for him anyway, because he was a hard worker and came from a good family. 

...

But at least he showed up to play today, unlike Romo and the 'Girls.




Showed up to play?  Was that before or after he was throwing dumb int's all over the place.  I hope the Farve circus ends this offseason.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: mass 04 on December 28, 2008, 05:06:28 PM
After the "gunslinger" blows this game, i can't wait for his teary eyed, dragged out "will i return" drama.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Tre on December 28, 2008, 05:07:45 PM
After the "gunslinger" blows this game, i can't wait for his teary eyed, dragged out "will i return" drama.

Time to hang it up...not sure that he will, though.



Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: polychronopolous on December 28, 2008, 05:21:34 PM
is the most overrated QB in history.
Discuss

Lifetime acheivements


Most consecutive starts by a quarterback

Most wins by a quarterback in the regular season

Most career passing touchdowns

Most career passing yards.

End of discussion.






Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Tre on December 28, 2008, 05:24:28 PM
Lifetime acheivements


Most consecutive starts by a quarterback

Most wins by a quarterback in the regular season

Most career passing touchdowns

Most career passing yards.

End of discussion.

Career interceptions record that will never be broken.

Now, end.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Tre on December 28, 2008, 05:25:22 PM

The only downside of the Patriots missing the playoffs is the fact that they're gonna stick microphones in Joey Porter's face. 


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: mass 04 on December 28, 2008, 05:27:07 PM
I don't care about stats. Montana, Bradshaw, Young etc... had worse "stats" but were much better players and decision makers.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: polychronopolous on December 28, 2008, 05:27:15 PM
Careers interceptions record that will never be broken.

Now, end.


Yeah you really destroyed my arguement with that point
 ::)


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: tbombz on December 28, 2008, 05:34:01 PM
brett favre is to quarterbacks what emmit smith is to half backs.   8)


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: body88 on December 28, 2008, 05:34:43 PM
Yeah you really destroyed my arguement with that point
 ::)

He did.  Farve has most his records because he has played for a really long time.  He's highly overrated.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: polychronopolous on December 28, 2008, 05:35:47 PM
He did.  Farve has most his records because he has played for a really long time.  He's not that good.

Haha, another brilliant stat, "because he only played for a long time" and........... "he's not that good"

Wow, you people are bringing out the heavy artillery


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: tbombz on December 28, 2008, 05:37:39 PM
hes a good quarterback. but id have trouble if anybody compaed him to montana marino elway etc.  its like when people compare emmit smith to barry sanders.  ::)


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: polychronopolous on December 28, 2008, 05:40:04 PM
hes a good quarterback. but id have trouble if anybody compaed him to montana marino elway etc.  its like when people compare emmit smith to barry sanders.  ::)

What people compare Emmitt Smith to Barry Sanders? I don't know of any and I live in Dallas

However Emmitt Smith is the all-time leader in rushing yards and anyone who is the all-time leader in any major stat is a badass, whether you want to admit it or not


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: mass 04 on December 28, 2008, 05:40:57 PM
hes a good quarterback. but id have trouble if anybody compaed him to montana marino elway etc.  its like when people compare emmit smith to barry sanders.  ::)
exactly he's a great player no doubt about it, but he's barely top 10 all time. I've never seen a marquee qb with worse decision making skills.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Camel Jockey on December 28, 2008, 05:43:49 PM
What I don't like is the drama he creates and how fans the media accommodate that stuff. Favre opens his mouth and whines then he's being a leader, but god forbid some other football player or athlete for that matter opens his mouth then they are out of line.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: tbombz on December 28, 2008, 05:45:20 PM
all im saying is barry sanders is the best running back to ever play the game !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UQ26EpTmBs


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: CalvinH on December 28, 2008, 05:45:43 PM
exactly he's a great player no doubt about it, but he's barely top 10 all time. I've never seen a marquee qb with worse decision making skills.


During the Giants vs GB game last year when the game went into overtime I told my girl "He's gonna throw a pick,he hasn't thrown one yet today".


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: mass 04 on December 28, 2008, 05:46:52 PM

During the Giants vs GB game last year when the game went into overtime I told my girl "He's gonna throw a pick,he hasn't thrown one yet today".
maybe i'm just bitter he couldn't beat Miami today? ;D


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: The Showstoppa on December 28, 2008, 05:52:49 PM
Favre has always been the same QB.  Love him or hate him, he can make a play that makes your jaw drop or he can make one that makes you shake your head.  What will always separate him was/is his sheer joy of playing.  How many QB's jawed with DT's who sacked him the way Favre did with Sapp, for example?  He always gave his team a chance to win, which is all you can ask.

It is time for him to retire.  Don't want to be remembered as a hanger-on.  Go out having turned the Jets into a winner and watching the Packers win 6 games after you lead them to 13 the year before with virtually the exact same roster.

Great QB, but his time has passed.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: body88 on December 28, 2008, 06:07:26 PM
Haha, another brilliant stat, "because he only played for a long time" and........... "he's not that good"

Wow, you people are bringing out the heavy artillery

The all time records you speak of are because Farve has played for many years.  How couldn't he compile big stats when he played as long as he did.  Why did you leave out his int record, exactly.  He's not in the same world as Marino and Montana, deal with it.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: polychronopolous on December 28, 2008, 06:11:44 PM
The all time records you speak of are because Farve has played for many years.  How couldn't he compile big stats when he played as long as he did.  Why did you leave out his int record, exactly.  He's not in the same world as Marino and Montana, deal with it.

Did you read the first post in the thread?

Did I ever say he was in the same world as Marino and Montana?

Perhaps a remedial class in reading comprehension would be in order for you?


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: KevinP85 on December 28, 2008, 06:12:44 PM
hes a good quarterback. but id have trouble if anybody compaed him to montana marino elway etc.  its like when people compare emmit smith to barry sanders.  ::)


At the end of the day, who gives a fuck! Better, probably, but how many superbowl rings does Emmitt have and how many does Barry have. Exactly!! End of discussion.



Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: CalvinH on December 28, 2008, 06:13:14 PM
maybe i'm just bitter he couldn't beat Miami today? ;D


There is that ;D


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: divcom on December 28, 2008, 06:14:02 PM
all im saying is barry sanders is the best running back to ever play the game !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UQ26EpTmBs


what is reggie bush about the same weight and a bit taller with a lot of the same moves but is worthless as a every down back?  top 10 hyped player of all-time in the nfl.   saints have to play him b/c they jacked off a 2nd overall pick.      

i also like dickerson (straight up back) and faulk (everything but spec teams)


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: KevinP85 on December 28, 2008, 06:14:11 PM
I don't care about stats. Montana, Bradshaw, Young etc... had worse "stats" but were much better players and decision makers.


Add Aikman to that list as well :D


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: polychronopolous on December 28, 2008, 06:14:50 PM

At the end of the day, who gives a fuck! Better, probably, but how many superbowl rings does Emmitt have and how many does Barry have. Exactly!! End of discussion.



Exactly.

And don't forget that Troy Aikman won 90 football games in the 1990's making him the most winning Quarterback of any decade, not to mention he is one of the most accurate quarterbacks in NFL history as well.

I'll take that any day.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: CalvinH on December 28, 2008, 06:16:15 PM
Exactly.

And don't forget that Troy Aikman won 90 football games in the 1990's making him the most winning Quarterback of any decade, not to mention he is one of the most accurate quarterbacks in NFL history as well.

I'll take that any day.


Hated him as I'm Gmen fan but he got it done.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: KevinP85 on December 28, 2008, 06:16:21 PM
Exactly.

And don't forget that Troy Aikman won 90 football games in the 1990's making him the most winning Quarterback of any decade, not to mention he is one of the most accurate quarterbacks in NFL history as well.

I'll take that any day.


Exactly, me too. Same with Eli as well, decent/average quarterback with a ring and Marino, nothing, hahaha


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: pumpster on December 28, 2008, 06:20:57 PM
Lifetime acheivements


Most consecutive starts by a quarterback

Most wins by a quarterback in the regular season

Most career passing touchdowns

Most career passing yards.

End of discussion.





Wrong


Most career interceptions.

Longest continuing drama.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: body88 on December 28, 2008, 06:22:21 PM
Did you read the first post in the thread?

Did I ever say he was in the same world as Marino and Montana?

Perhaps a remedial class in reading comprehension would be in order for you?

You cited all Farves records after I called him OVERREATED.  Those records have to be directly compared to the greatest qb's off all time.  If Farve is the not in the same world as Marino or Montana, but he has all the big records, what is he?  Overrated, and the product of a very long career.  Which one of Farves three pics was your favorite today?  He loves to do that in the big games. 


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: pumpster on December 28, 2008, 06:22:32 PM
Yeah you really destroyed my arguement with that point
 ::)

That's not a minor detail genius.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: polychronopolous on December 28, 2008, 06:22:39 PM
I love when guys pull the "he only has those stats because he played so long"

They like to use that line against guys like Brett Favre and Kareem Abdul Jabar, but it's like "Fuck man, the guy played 18, 20, 22 seasons"... year in year out in the top leagues in their respective sports, fighting off incoming 22 year olds who want their job to accomplish those stats.

That in itself is so impressive that it goes without saying.



Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: pumpster on December 28, 2008, 06:24:46 PM
I love when guys pull the "he only has those stats because he played so long"

They like to use that line against guys like Brett Favre and Kareem Abdul Jabar, but it's like "Fuck man, the guy played 18, 20, 22 seasons"... year in year out in the top leagues in their respective sports, fighting off incoming 22 year olds who want their job to accomplish those stats.

That in itself is so impressive that it goes without saying.



Actually if you knew the game better you'd know that Fran Tarkenton & Warrne Moon also had impressive stats. Cute details for superficial fans like you.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: polychronopolous on December 28, 2008, 06:25:55 PM
That's not a minor detail genius.

You had better be a damn good quarterback to be in the top 5 all time interception category.

That's alot of balls thrown.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: polychronopolous on December 28, 2008, 06:27:05 PM
Actually if you knew the game better you'd know that Fran Tarkenton & Warrne Moon also had impressive stats. Cute details for superficial fans like you.

Yeah, you're right, I was not aware that Tarkenton and Moon had great stats.

Another solid argument. You got me there, I don't even know who those guys are, did they play football as well?


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: mass 04 on December 28, 2008, 06:29:45 PM
You had better be a damn good quarterback to be in the top 5 all time interception category.

That's alot of balls thrown.
Tetaverdee is top 5 in INT's. He's not "damn good".


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: knny187 on December 28, 2008, 06:32:30 PM
PACMAN


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: polychronopolous on December 28, 2008, 06:33:07 PM
Tetaverdee is top 5 in INT's. He's not "damn good".

Sixth all time in yards, ninth all time in touchdowns. played well into his 40's.

Yeah, pretty damn good.




Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Tre on December 28, 2008, 06:36:30 PM
Favre has always been the same QB.  Love him or hate him, he can make a play that makes your jaw drop or he can make one that makes you shake your head.  What will always separate him was/is his sheer joy of playing.  How many QB's jawed with DT's who sacked him the way Favre did with Sapp, for example?  He always gave his team a chance to win, which is all you can ask.

It is time for him to retire.  Don't want to be remembered as a hanger-on.  Go out having turned the Jets into a winner and watching the Packers win 6 games after you lead them to 13 the year before with virtually the exact same roster.

Great QB, but his time has passed.

Fuckin' ay. 

I just figured out who you are. 

Well done, I must say.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: polychronopolous on December 28, 2008, 06:59:58 PM
I'll just say this -- he won 3 consecutive MVP award. No one else in the history of the game has done that.

It's one thing to be the most important guy in, arguable, the most team-oriented sport going today. It's quite another to be that man 3 years in a row during the 90s when you had players like Aikman, Sanders, Emmit Smith, Steve Young, Jerry Rice....all of whom are listed amongst the greatest who ever played their respective positions. Yet, it was always Favre who won.

So no, winning 3 MVPs doesn't go to over-rated players.

Take this into account to, for all those who say "he just played a long time". You get into the Hall of Fame by doing three things:

1. Be dominant at your position when you played
2. Win games for your team more often than those who play your position on another team
3. Do it for a long time

Favre did all three, arguably, better than almost anyone. Did Marino win more games than Favre? I won't argue Brett is better than Dan, but look at win-share games. Favre wins more. And he did it for a long time.

Favre is one of the top 5 quarterbacks to ever play, IMO.

It's like this for my list:

1. Montana
2. Brady
3. Marino
4. Favre
5. Elway

Honorable Mention: Peyton Manning, Steve Young, Bart Starr, Staubach

Great, great, great points.

It's refreshing to actually have someone who can come up with solid, concrete evidence.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: The Showstoppa on December 28, 2008, 08:17:24 PM

I just figured out who you are. 



Whatcha' talking about?


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: HDPhysiques on December 28, 2008, 08:25:38 PM

Add Aikman to that list as well :D

Aikman had killer accuracy in his day, and a solid arm.
Brady = seriously overrated.  Product of the system.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: GroinkTropin on December 28, 2008, 08:28:21 PM
all im saying is barry sanders is the best running back to ever play the game !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UQ26EpTmBs

Bo Jackson.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Tre on December 28, 2008, 08:29:48 PM
Aikman had killer accuracy in his day, and a solid arm.
Brady = seriously overrated.  Product of the system.

Aikman was a lot better than most anti-Cowboys (I was one of them) ever gave him credit for.  He did exactly what he needed to, he led by example, and he won games...and championships.

Brady seems like a heady guy.  But one cannot help but to think that much of his success came as a result of what the NFL has defined as cheating.

The question no one is asking: is the injury to Brady and the Patriots missing the playoffs this year just another example of karma?     


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Joel_A on December 28, 2008, 08:35:21 PM
Aikman was a lot better than most anti-Cowboys (I was one of them) ever gave him credit for.  He did exactly what he needed to, he led by example, and he won games...and championships.

Brady seems like a heady guy.  But one cannot help but to think that much of his success came as a result of what the NFL has defined as cheating.

The question no one is asking: is the injury to Brady and the Patriots missing the playoffs this year just another example of karma?     

Aikman never had 30 td's in a season. Think about that.
He's a good qb but not even close to great.

*His best season was in 92 when he threw for 23 tds. That is laughable in today's standards. He does not belong in the HoF.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: The Showstoppa on December 28, 2008, 08:39:19 PM
Aikman never had 30 td's in a season. Think about that.
He's a good qb but not even close to great.

*His best season was in 92 when he threw for 23 tds. That is laughable in today's standards. He does not belong in the HoF.

Neither did Bradshaw.  28 was his highest.  Does he belong in the HOF?


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: QuakerOats on December 28, 2008, 08:39:44 PM
Aikman never had 30 td's in a season. Think about that.
He's a good qb but not even close to great.

*His best season was in 92 when he threw for 23 tds. That is laughable in today's standards. He does not belong in the HoF.
3 Super Bowl rings say otherwise.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: mass 04 on December 28, 2008, 08:41:45 PM
Aikman was THE QB of the 90's IMO. His career ended early, so his "stats" don't tell the whole story.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Joel_A on December 28, 2008, 08:42:35 PM
3 Super Bowl rings say otherwise.

trent dilfer has 1. does that mean he's better than marino?

superbowls mean shit as far as individual stats go.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: The Showstoppa on December 28, 2008, 08:44:03 PM
Elway's highest TD season was only 27.  No HOF?


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Joel_A on December 28, 2008, 08:44:06 PM
Neither did Bradshaw.  28 was his highest.  Does he belong in the HOF?

no (and i know ill get flak for this)
but the steelers as a team deserves to be one of the best teams of all time.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: QuakerOats on December 28, 2008, 08:45:02 PM
trent dilfer has 1. does that mean he's better than marino?

superbowls mean shit as far as individual stats go.
hahahahahhaaa, you're not honestly comparing Dilfer to Aikman are you? ::)


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Joel_A on December 28, 2008, 08:45:24 PM
Elway's highest TD season was only 27.  No HOF?

elway had lots of td's and yards. he deserves to be in there.

also helps to have mccaffrey, terrell davis, and shannon sharpe on your side, plus a killer defense headed by lynch.




Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: mass 04 on December 28, 2008, 08:46:10 PM
trent dilfer has 1. does that mean he's better than marino?

superbowls mean shit as far as individual stats go.
You can't judge a player solely on stats. Look at some of the guys with huge career stats; Bledsoe, Testaverdee etc.. are they better than Montana, Young, Aikman, Graham etc...


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Joel_A on December 28, 2008, 08:46:32 PM
hahahahahhaaa, you're not honestly comparing Dilfer to Aikman are you? ::)

no, not at all. dilfer had a great defense with him. aikman had a GREAT team, especially his O-line.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: QuakerOats on December 28, 2008, 08:47:35 PM
elway had lots of td's and yards. he deserves to be in there.

also helps to have mccaffrey, terrell davis, and shannon sharpe on your side, plus a killer defense headed by lynch.



Lynch didn't get there until after Elway was gone. ::)


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Joel_A on December 28, 2008, 08:48:36 PM
You can't judge a player solely on stats. Look at some of the guys with huge career stats; Bledsoe, Testaverdee etc.. are they better than Montana, Young, Aikman, Graham etc...

montana himself has said that if himn and marino had role reversals, marino wouldve been winning those superbowls. stats just show pure individual talent. if the rest of your teammates suck, you can only go so far.


marino almost did it by himself in 84.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: The Showstoppa on December 28, 2008, 08:48:41 PM
elway had lots of td's and yards. he deserves to be in there.

also helps to have mccaffrey, terrell davis, and shannon sharpe on your side, plus a killer defense headed by lynch.




Ummm, Elway retired 6 years before Lynch arrived in Denver.   ::)


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: QuakerOats on December 28, 2008, 08:50:36 PM
montana himself has said that if himn and marino had role reversals, marino wouldve been winning those superbowls. stats just show pure individual talent. if the rest of your teammates suck, you can only go so far.


marino almost did it by himself in 84.
exaggerating again about Marino, he had one of the greatest WR tandems in the history of the game in Duper and Clayton.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: The Showstoppa on December 28, 2008, 08:50:46 PM
You want to talk about a great QB as far as numbers, but who never gets a mention...the great Dan Fouts!


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Joel_A on December 28, 2008, 08:50:59 PM
Lynch didn't get there until after Elway was gone. ::)

romanowski okay with you? hes pretty good, yeah?

all this info crunching can get to me sometimes. im no john clayton but i do know quite a lot.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Joel_A on December 28, 2008, 08:53:09 PM
exaggerating again about Marino, he had one of the greatest WR tandems in the history of the game in Duper and Clayton.

how are they great when they are not even in the hall of fame? i agree they are good, but come on, aikman had irvin and novacek. montana had rice and clark. marino had oh yeah duper and clayton. they dont compare.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Joel_A on December 28, 2008, 08:54:07 PM
You want to talk about a great QB as far as numbers, but who never gets a mention...the great Dan Fouts!

i agree. one guy he had was winslow sr. thats it.

all he is remembered by is that long game against miami in the orange bowl.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: QuakerOats on December 28, 2008, 08:55:39 PM
how are they great when they are not even in the hall of fame? i agree they are good, but come on, aikman had irvin and novacek. montana had rice and clark. marino had oh yeah duper and clayton. they dont compare.
look up their #'s, they're right up there with Stallworth/Swann, Bruce/Holt, Rice/Taylor, Carter/Moss, Monk/Brown or any of them.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: The Showstoppa on December 28, 2008, 08:56:35 PM
i agree. one guy he had was inslow sr. thats it.

all he is remembered by is that long game against miami in the orange bowl.

Oh yeah, one of the best games ever.  I was so fired up as a kid, but then they had to play in zero weather at Cincy the next week.  Got smoked.

Fouts did have some good weapons though.  Winslow, Joiner, Chandler, J. Jefferson, Muncie, Brooks, etc...

the defense sucked ass!


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Joel_A on December 28, 2008, 08:57:19 PM
Come on man. You don't believe that? If you did, why didn't Cassel take them to the playoffs? Why wasn't their division record stronger than it was?

Cheating...just a bunch of BS media hooplah. Like Bellichick did anything every other coach is doing. Spare me.

I'm not a Pats fan, but that wasn't cheating.

And though an 11-5 mark proves that the team isn't all-Brady, they can't win the big one without him.

theyve never been all brady. he didnt really have a SUPERB year until randy moss came to town.


he was great, though, considering he only had so-so receivers for the longest time.
plus vinatieri bailed that whole team for a long time.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Tre on December 28, 2008, 08:58:26 PM
Come on man. You don't believe that? If you did, why didn't Cassel take them to the playoffs? Why wasn't their division record stronger than it was?

Cheating...just a bunch of BS media hooplah. Like Bellichick did anything every other coach is doing. Spare me.

I'm not a Pats fan, but that wasn't cheating.

And though an 11-5 mark proves that the team isn't all-Brady, they can't win the big one without him.

I like Cassel, and 11-5 is a record I'd love for my team to have.  If the Raiders were 11-5, tonite's San Diego-Denver game wouldn't mean shit! lol


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Joel_A on December 28, 2008, 08:59:40 PM
look up their #'s, they're right up there with Stallworth/Swann, Bruce/Holt, Rice/Taylor, Carter/Moss, Monk/Brown or any of them.

they were definitely good. but out of all those receiver tandems you posted, where would you rank duper/clayton?


exactly.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: The Showstoppa on December 28, 2008, 09:00:08 PM
I like Cassel, and 11-5 is a record I'd love for my team to have.  If the Raiders were 11-5, tonite's San Diego-Denver game wouldn't mean shit! lol

Poor Raiders fan, huh?  Sorry about that.  My brother is too.



Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: QuakerOats on December 28, 2008, 09:00:26 PM
they were definitely good. but out of all those receiver tandems you posted, where would you rank duper/clayton?


exactly.
i would rank them right up there among the best.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Joel_A on December 28, 2008, 09:02:43 PM
I think he belongs in the HOF. I don't think he deserved to go as early as he did.

The same thing will happen in baseball. Jeter will go in first ballot HOF, even though he's not the greatest infielder of his era.

Some guys are just media darlings that remain untouchable. Aikman was one of those guys. Peyton Manning is another -- they are untouchable, and they would have to be caught throwing kittens from atop the Empire State Building in the nude for anyone to believe differently.

thats whats its all about really. being a media darling.

you hit the nail in the head with Jeter.
Manning can actually play. :)


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Joel_A on December 28, 2008, 09:05:50 PM
all im saying is since football is considered by many as the ultimate TEAM sport, wins shouldnt be attributed to ONE single player.

if you are gonna go by individual talent, you CANNOT use wins as a stat. only individual sports can get away with that (boxing, wrestling, golf, tennis, etc)


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Joel_A on December 28, 2008, 09:06:53 PM
oh, and bodybuilding.  ::)


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: tymac63 on December 28, 2008, 09:19:12 PM
   the team the cowboys had; the OL was one of the best of all times.  the avg running back could have put up the stats that smith had.  not taking nothing from smith, but you can drive a truck though them holes.  but you can say them hogs had a great line as well 


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: TechnoViking on December 28, 2008, 09:36:56 PM
Does anyone else think that Tony Romo is a little version of Farve who makes just as many mistakes as older Brett does?...


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: TechnoViking on December 28, 2008, 09:40:08 PM
By the way...Marino couldn't win because he was a fcuking cock sucker of a human being...He was hated be most of the people on his team...If Marino and Montana changed roles, Marino would not have won in SF either...Clark and Rice would have also dropped a ton of ballz from the douchebag/cokehead Marino...


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: QuakerOats on December 28, 2008, 09:40:50 PM
By the way...Mario couldn't win because he was a fcuking cock sucker of a human being...He was hated be most of the people on his team...If Mario and Montana changed roles, Mario would not have won in SF either...Clark and Rice would have also dropped a ton of ballz from the douchebag/cokehead Mario...
who the hell is Mario? ???


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Joel_A on December 28, 2008, 09:43:24 PM
who the hell is Mario? ???

some plumber.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: TechnoViking on December 28, 2008, 09:44:12 PM
who the hell is Mario? ???

fixed...


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: BFP on December 28, 2008, 09:52:20 PM
all im saying is barry sanders is the best running back player to ever play the game !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UQ26EpTmBs

fixed. For the doubters, show mw anyone who has done more with less.

Jason


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: BFP on December 28, 2008, 09:55:18 PM
I think he belongs in the HOF. I don't think he deserved to go as early as he did.

The same thing will happen in baseball. Jeter will go in first ballot HOF, even though he's not the greatest infielder of his era.

Some guys are just media darlings that remain untouchable. Aikman was one of those guys. Peyton Manning is another -- they are untouchable, and they would have to be caught throwing kittens from atop the Empire State Building in the nude for anyone to believe differently.

Surely youre not so retarded that you would say manning is just a media darling? Have you ever watched a football game or sports stat? Idiot.

Jason


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Joel_A on December 28, 2008, 09:56:46 PM
fixed. For the doubters, show mw anyone who has done more with less.

Jason

maybe jim brown.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: body88 on December 28, 2008, 10:16:11 PM
He did win a few rings before Moss came to town, so that's enough for most critics. You could have said the same about Montana during a few of his "lesser years". Not great on the stat sheet (ala Marino), but what he lacked in "fantasy" game he made up for in the win column.

Vinatieri is owed big time by Pats nation. And Bellichick is the real HOF'er in the whole mix. He's the one who is truly great.

It should be noted that Moss was at the lowest point in his career before he started playing with Brady.  Also, it should be mentioned that Brady passed for over 4000 yards with Branch as a number one option in 2005.  Brady has always made receivers better, and his mindblowing stats in 07 came from Belichick opening up the pats O to Brady, and allowing it to be an explosive ariel attack (and Brady getting some legit wr's).  The running game was the emphasis before the NFL started changing all the rules to encourage passing.  Belichick is infact a genius, so that helps.  It's amazing what Brady did (considering many of the final games were in very bad weather).  I think he would have went 65+ td's to 4 int's if he played in a dome.

I don't know how anyone can question Brady and cite that spygate nonsense.  Last year, when the media frenzy was going on, the guy threw 50 td's to 4 freaking ints.  There was defiantly no monkey business going on last season.  He had the best season of any QB ever, and he did it under intense scrutiny.  Oh and The commissioner of the NFL stated several times no "taping" occurred in any sb's so that whole argument is bs. Brady had all the sb's and owns every record in the books for a single season, he can't be denied.  However, I still consider Montana the best ever (at this point) 

Brady now has Moss and Welker
Manning has Harrison and Wayne
Montana had Rice
etc....


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Joel_A on December 28, 2008, 10:24:59 PM
It should be noted that Moss was at the lowest point in his career before he started playing with Brady.  Also, it should be mentioned that Brady passed for over 4000 yards with Branch as a number one option in 2005.  Brady has always made receivers better, and his mindblowing stats in 07 came from Belichick turning the pats O into a much more explosive ariel attackm and him getting some legit wr's.  The running game was the emphasis before the NFL started changing all the rules to encourage passing.  Belichick is infact a genius, so that helps.  It's amazing what Brady did (considering many of the final games where in very bad weather).  I think he would have went 65+ td's to 4 int's if he played in a dome.

I don't know how anyone can question Brady and cite that spygate nonsense.  Last year, when the media frenzy was going on, the guy threw 50 td's to 4 freaking ints.  There was defiantly no monkey business going on last season.  He had the best season of any QB ever, and he did it under intense scrutiny.  Oh and The commissioner of the NFL stated several times no "taping" occurred in any sb's so that whole argument is bs. Brady had all the sb's and owns every record in the books for a single season, he can't be denied.  However, I still consider Montana the best ever (at this point) 

Brady now has Moss and Welker
Manning has Harrison and Wayne
Montana had Rice
etc....

why on earth would you put montana ahead of brady? brady has done a lot more than montana has ever done (and that's saying a LOT). brady's not my fav qb (marino is) but he definitely should be ahead of montana at this point, no?


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: body88 on December 28, 2008, 10:25:56 PM
why on earth would you put montana ahead of brady? brady has done a lot more than montana has ever done (and that's saying a LOT). brady's not my fav qb (marino is) but he definitely should be ahead of montana at this point, no?


I agree, but I won't say Brady is the greatest ever until it's all said and done.  At that point I think it might be able to be said without much of a counter argument from others.  If he wins another sb, it's not even debatable - imo.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: HDPhysiques on December 28, 2008, 10:57:01 PM
Brady seems like a heady guy.  But one cannot help but to think that much of his success came as a result of what the NFL has defined as cheating.     

Correct.  The NFL had to go back and instruct officials on how to properly call defensive holding/pass interference according to the rule book, after the Pats RAPED the Colts receivers year after year in the AFC playoffs, and prior to that, the Rams receivers in SB36.  You call any of those games according to the rule book, and the Pats don't even get a sniff of at least 2 of their Super Bowls.

Come on man. You don't believe that? If you did, why didn't Cassel take them to the playoffs? Why wasn't their division record stronger than it was?

Maybe it's because they have about 18 players on Injured reserve, and their defense is getting almost elderly.

Cheating...just a bunch of BS media hooplah. Like Bellichick did anything every other coach is doing. Spare me.

They were caught, and tapes from previous years mysteriously "disappeared".  Yeah, right.  Goodell was doing a favor for his buddy Bobby Kraft, and sweeping under the rug a whole multitude of problems that those tapes would've revealed for the league's legitimacy.

I'm not a Pats fan, but that wasn't cheating.

You sound like one.  And perhaps their "gift" in SB36 wasn't "cheating", but there's no question that Bobby Kraft and Tags were buddies.  Any reasonably knowledgeable football fan will never acknowledge their SB36 "win" as legit after seeing the 150+ yards in free uncalled penalties they got away with in that game.  See these videos for a refresher in that gang raping (150 yards of uncalled penalties & Bernie Kukar - Incompetent or "on the take"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-L9ExI_76E&feature=related
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3529369093687376012

Brady has always made receivers better, and his mindblowing stats in 07 came from Belichick opening up the pats O to Brady, and allowing it to be an explosive ariel attack (and Brady getting some legit wr's).  The running game was the emphasis before the NFL started changing all the rules to encourage passing. 

They never changed rules to encourage passing.  They held a meeting prior to the 05 or 06 season (don't recall which), and reminded officials how to properly call defensive pass interference, holding, and other molestation of receivers which the PATS were responsible for.

Belichick is infact a genius, so that helps.

He's an excellent coach in a number of ways.  Not sure about genius, though.  He excels at knowing exactly how far he can push the rules, bend the rules, etc...

Oh and The commissioner of the NFL stated several times no "taping" occurred in any sb's so that whole argument is bs.

ROFLMAO!   I guess Bill Clinton never had "inappropriate relations" with that woman, either, right?


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: body88 on December 28, 2008, 11:04:01 PM
Correct.  The NFL had to go back and instruct officials on how to properly call defensive holding/pass interference according to the rule book, after the Pats RAPED the Colts receivers year after year in the AFC playoffs, and prior to that, the Rams receivers in SB36.  You call any of those games according to the rule book, and the Pats don't even get a sniff of at least 2 of their Super Bowls.

Maybe it's because they have about 18 players on Injured reserve, and their defense is getting almost elderly.

They were caught, and tapes from previous years mysteriously "disappeared".  Yeah, right.  Goodell was doing a favor for his buddy Bobby Kraft, and sweeping under the rug a whole multitude of problems that those tapes would've revealed for the league's legitimacy.

You sound like one.  And perhaps their "gift" in SB36 wasn't "cheating", but there's no question that Bobby Kraft and Tags were buddies.  Any reasonably knowledgeable football fan will never acknowledge their SB36 "win" as legit after seeing the 150+ yards in free uncalled penalties they got away with in that game.  See these videos for a refresher in that gang raping (150 yards of uncalled penalties & Bernie Kukar - Incompetent or "on the take"):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-L9ExI_76E&feature=related
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3529369093687376012

They never changed rules to encourage passing.  They held a meeting prior to the 05 or 06 season (don't recall which), and reminded officials how to properly call defensive pass interference, holding, and other molestation of receivers which the PATS were responsible for.

He's an excellent coach in a number of ways.  Not sure about genius, though.  He excels at knowing exactly how far he can push the rules, bend the rules, etc...

ROFLMAO!   I guess Bill Clinton never had "inappropriate relations" with that woman, either, right?

I am tired as hell right now, so I will a answer some of the points tommorow. 


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: HDPhysiques on December 28, 2008, 11:13:25 PM
I am tired as hell right now, so I will a answer some of the points tommorow. 

No need.  The 2 video clips I posted links of says it all.  Peyton Manning should be the one with 3 rings now, and Warner with 2.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Tre on December 29, 2008, 12:39:10 AM
Oh well...they can't all be Jackson/Allen backfields, can they?

Fucking Al Davis, I swear.

The life of a Raiders fan is the most painful of all over the past two decades.



Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: KevinP85 on December 29, 2008, 04:02:27 AM
why on earth would you put montana ahead of brady? brady has done a lot more than montana has ever done (and that's saying a LOT). brady's not my fav qb (marino is) but he definitely should be ahead of montana at this point, no?



You should ask Marino, how does it feel to never win a superbowl. I am willing to bet he'll trade all those "stats," and his left nut for a ring!

IMO, who gives a fuck if you can't win the big one, ask guys like Moss and Owens.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: LatsMcGee on December 29, 2008, 04:14:38 AM
Brett Favre is a man who loves Wrangler Jeans.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: polychronopolous on December 29, 2008, 06:44:37 AM
Brett Favre is a man who loves Wrangler Jeans.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2pIvg-2vEY


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: body88 on December 29, 2008, 06:58:53 AM
No need.  The 2 video clips I posted links of says it all.  Peyton Manning should be the one with 3 rings now, and Warner with 2.

Sore, bitter, loser  :D


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: body88 on December 29, 2008, 08:47:05 AM
Quote
Correct.  The NFL had to go back and instruct officials on how to properly call defensive holding/pass interference according to the rule book, after the Pats RAPED the Colts receivers year after year in the AFC playoffs, and prior to that, the Rams receivers in SB36.  You call any of those games according to the rule book, and the Pats don't even get a sniff of at least 2 of their Super Bowls.
Excuses on top of excuses here.  The rule you speak of was looked at because Bill Polian (a member of the competition committee), was upset that his soft team could not beat the Patriots.  Ironically, the year the colts won the sb, their db's were among the most physical with receivers. It's funny that when the colts finally won a sb, it was through bone crushing defense.  The kind they used to cry about!  Your above post is your typical crybaby argument (used by sore losers all over the sports world). Lastly, the fact that Bill Polian is a member of the competition committee, and also the gm of the colts is pretty shady if you ask me.  His team loses, and he wants to call meeting to have rules "re emphasized"?  Sounds kind of shady to me.  What's the story with that conspiracy!?  Is that a conflict of interest?  The only guy that seemed to have a problem was Polian. Every fan of every team can tell you about favoritism by the NFL of another team (usually the team with a lot of success, or the team they can't seem to beat).

Quote
Maybe it's because they have about 18 players on Injured reserve, and their defense is getting almost elderly
 
Actually the defense is very young. Injuries have forced them to resign older players.  The only "old" players left are Bru and Harrison. Starting d:  Wilfork 26, Seymour 28, Warren 26, Greene 28, Wright 29, Crable 22, Guyton 22, Mayo 23, Alexander 26, Hobbs26, Meriweather,22, Wilhite 22, Wheatley 23, Sanders 26, Thomas 30.  If you knew anything about that pats (which you don't), you would know the defense has been 80% rebuilt while the pats have remained competitive.  The pats also have a slew of draft pics this year.

Quote
They were caught, and tapes from previous years mysteriously "disappeared".  Yeah, right.  Goodell was doing a favor for his buddy Bobby Kraft, and sweeping under the rug a whole multitude of problems that those tapes would've revealed for the league's legitimac

First, Goodel spent most of his NFL career working for the Jets. Did you know that? Goodel is closer with the Jets than the Pats.  The Patriots provided all the tapes that were requested by the NFL.  The tapes were destroyed after one was leaked to the news station Goodel's wife worked for (which the pats could sue over if it happened again). Wes Welker was just fined 10k for making a snowangel.  Favoritism my ass ::)  Just accept that the pats were punished, and the tapes were not that big of a deal.  The tapes were provided, reviewed and destroyed after one was LEAKED to the news station that Goodel's wife works for.  You would understand that leaking sealed evidence could bring up some issues with the pats right?  How would a court of law look at those tapes after they were leaked ( when they are guaranteed to be secure by the NFL)?

Quote
You sound like one.  And perhaps their "gift" in SB36 wasn't "cheating", but there's no question that Bobby Kraft and Tags were buddies.  Any reasonably knowledgeable football fan will never acknowledge their SB36 "win" as legit after seeing the 150+ yards in free uncalled penalties they got away with in that game.  See these videos for a refresher in that gang raping (150 yards of uncalled penalties & Bernie Kukar - Incompetent or "on the take"):

The Pats sb's were proven to be legit, and the Boston Herald is on the verge of tanking due to the backlash from writing that bullshit story.  The videos you posted can be found by looking up the loser of every superbowl in recent memory......and asking some yahoo fan which conspiracy they bought into that cost them to lose.  You just happened to find a mega loser with far to much time on their hands. 

Quote
They never changed rules to encourage passing.  They held a meeting prior to the 05 or 06 season (don't recall which), and reminded officials how to properly call defensive pass interference, holding, and other molestation of receivers which the PATS were responsible for.
That was initiated by a member of the competition committee (Bill Polian), who also happens to be the gm of the team that was "mugged".  Hmmmm, talk about conspiracies!!!!  I wonder why he didn't reemphasize the rules when his db's were crushing people the year they won the sb.  They did have the most penalties off all db's in the NFL that year.

Quote
He's an excellent coach in a number of ways.  Not sure about genius, though.  He excels at knowing exactly how far he can push the rules, bend the rules, etc
Your hate is twisting your mind.  Belichick was voted coach of the year last year by his peers during the whole spygate thing after leading his team to the only undefeated 16 game season. Belichick helped produce an 11-5 record with 14 starters on ir and the loss of the NFL's best QB this year. Belichicks defensive plans are credited for both the Giants sb wins under Parcels and two of the pats three sb's.  Thats not even taking into account Belichicks steller playoff record, his unrivled winning percentage and the three sb's he won here in NE.  Most everyone in the NFL admits he is a genious, whether they like him or not.  His peers have the utmost repsect for his football mond, it's clear that you just don't like him.

Quote
ROFLMAO!   I guess Bill Clinton never had "inappropriate relations" with that woman, either, right?
Many coaches have come out and said the whole spygate thing was overblown.  Guys like Parcels said that teams have been doing this stuff for years, and that gamesmenship is part of the NFL.  There are tons of people who say spygate was nonsense, and many people who feel that it was a big deal (most of the teams who can't beat the pats).  Most of the NFL greats (Jimmy Johnson, Parcels, Dan Rooney-etc) have said that spygate was nonsense, so after looking at the pats record post spygate (29-6), listening to the opinions of several prominent NFL people (Parcels, Bill Polian, Jimmy Johnson, Art Rooney-etc), and finding out that the pats did not use taping to win their sb's, I formed the opinion that gamesmenship is part of the NFL, and even though taping gave the pats little advantage, Belichick is that much of a competitor and will do everything he can to win.  Belichick stated several times that they used the tapes later for scouting perposes (which is ok). Again "stealing sings in not illegal....what Belichick got into trouble for was trying to expose a loophole in the NFL rule and having the camera on the sideline.  He was wrong and he was punished.  Considering Welker was just fined 10k for a snowangel, I think the magnitude of the pats fine was meant to send a message to the whole NFL.  I am on the side of the fence that believes that spygate was crap, and you are on the other side.  It's no more complicated than that.  Legit arguments can be formed for both sides, it is what it is.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: HDPhysiques on December 29, 2008, 11:56:07 AM
Typical Pats "fan boy" excuses....

Excuses on top of excuses here.  The rule you speak of was looked at because Bill Polian (a member of the competition committee), was upset that his soft team could not beat the Patriots.  Ironically, the year the colts won the sb, their db's were among the most physical with receivers. It's funny that when the colts finally won a sb, it was through bone crushing defense.  The kind they used to cry about!

Nothing wrong with playing physical defense.  The difference is that the Colts did it WITHIN THE RULES OF THE GAME, while the Pats got away with blatant late hits, helmet-to-helmet hits, holding, taking out the knees, etc....    The Colts were just a solid, fundamentally sound, hard hitting defense.  The Pats are cheap shot artists.  The "150+ yards of uncalled penalties" video alone shows enough of that, and that doesn't even include the ass rapings they did on Marvin Harrison and the Colts receivers.

Your above post is your typical crybaby argument (used by sore losers all over the sports world). Lastly, the fact that Bill Polian is a member of the competition committee, and also the gm of the colts is pretty shady if you ask me.  His team loses, and he wants to call meeting to have rules "re emphasized"?  Sounds kind of shady to me.  What's the story with that conspiracy!?  Is that a conflict of interest?  The only guy that seemed to have a problem was Polian.

No, try the entire rest of the league.  Polian is a stand up guy, and was doing the responsible thing as a member of the competition committee.  When one team gets away with murder on the field, he was right to call them and the officials out on that, and bring back fair play to the league.

Actually the defense is very young. Injuries have forced them to resign older players.  The only "old" players left are Bru and Harrison. Starting d:  Wilfork 26, Seymour 28, Warren 26, Greene 28, Wright 29, Crable 22, Guyton 22, Mayo 23, Alexander 26, Hobbs26, Meriweather,22, Wilhite 22, Wheatley 23, Sanders 26, Thomas 30.  If you knew anything about that pats (which you don't), you would know the defense has been 80% rebuilt while the pats have remained competitive. 

LOL @ your bragging about your Pats knowledge - obvious clouded judgement, fanboy.  The impact players on the defense are old.  Besides Harrison and Tedy, 28, 29, and 30 is getting old in the NFL.   The few young guys on the defense (22,23, 26) are not impact guys like Seau, Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel, and some of the cast offs they've sent to other teams. So the point remains.... they finished with a worse record than last year because of injuries and an aging defense, not because Brady to Cassell is a huge drop off.  Brady = product of the system, and is an above avg QB at best.  Certainly no Montana, Manning, Young, Elway, etc...

First, Goodel spent most of his NFL career working for the Jets. Did you know that? Goodel is closer with the Jets than the Pats. 

I'm well aware of both Tags and Goods backgrounds.  That doesn't mean that can't buddy up with money man Bobby Kraft, and protect one of the league's most valued franchises.

The Patriots provided all the tapes that were requested by the NFL.  The tapes were destroyed after one was leaked to the news station Goodel's wife worked for (which the pats could sue over if it happened again). Wes Welker was just fined 10k for making a snowangel.  Favoritism my ass ::)  Just accept that the pats were punished, and the tapes were not that big of a deal.  The tapes were provided, reviewed and destroyed after one was LEAKED to the news station that Goodel's wife works for.  You would understand that leaking sealed evidence could bring up some issues with the pats right?  How would a court of law look at those tapes after they were leaked ( when they are guaranteed to be secure by the NFL)?

Hilarious paragraph.   They are cheaters and have been for 7-8 seasons now.  Busted, and the tapes mysteriously "disappear"....  Ummm.... yeah right.

The Pats sb's were proven to be legit, and the Boston Herald is on the verge of tanking due to the backlash from writing that bullshit story.  The videos you posted can be found by looking up the loser of every superbowl in recent memory......

Problem is, the videos don't lie.  Doesn't matter which fans of which teams made them.  The video evidence is the video evidence.  The Pats got away with murder in SB36, a game that was NOT called in accordance with the NFL rule book.  It was called in a way that would benefit their inferior team and allow them to break/bend the rules.  I know it must suck to hear that your championship is not legitimate, but sorry, it wasn't.  The video doesn't lie.

That was initiated by a member of the competition committee (Bill Polian), who also happens to be the gm of the team that was "mugged".  Hmmmm, talk about conspiracies!!!!  I wonder why he didn't reemphasize the rules when his db's were crushing people the year they won the sb.  They did have the most penalties off all db's in the NFL that year.

They were "crushing people" within the bounds of the rule book.  And as you point out, when they were not within the rules, they were penalized for it.  That's why Polian wasn't complaining - it was all legit.

Your hate is twisting your mind.
 

No hate here, bub.  Just a fan of legitimate sport, not the financially motivated gifts that the NE franchise has gotten for so long.  Perhaps you should do some research into the early and mid-90's, when Ortmayer and the Pats were working a plan to move the Pats to St. Louis.

Belichick was voted coach of the year last year by his peers during the whole spygate thing after leading his team to the only undefeated 16 game season.


I already said he was an excellent coach.  Few would disagree with that.  But there's no question he's been the beneficiary of some lopsided officiating.  Like I said, his biggest strength as a HC is his ability to work around the rule book.  Kudos to him.

Belichick helped produce an 11-5 record with 14 starters on ir and the loss of the NFL's best most overrated QB this year.

Fixed.

Many coaches have come out and said the whole spygate thing was overblown. 

Of course... those wanting to gain favor with Goodell, Mike Pereira and the officials.  It's in their best interests to "hush" on the matter of spygate.

I am on the side of the fence that believes that spygate was crap, and you are on the other side.  It's no more complicated than that.  Legit arguments can be formed for both sides, it is what it is.

I'm far less concerned about spygate than I am the blatant one-sided officiating on defensive backs that resulted in at least 2 of their 3 Super Bowl wins or playoff runs.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: body88 on December 29, 2008, 12:27:53 PM
Quote
Nothing wrong with playing physical defense.  The difference is that the Colts did it WITHIN THE RULES OF THE GAME, while the Pats got away with blatant late hits, helmet-to-helmet hits, holding, taking out the knees, etc....    The Colts were just a solid, fundamentally sound, hard hitting defense.  The Pats are cheap shot artists.  The "150+ yards of uncalled penalties" video alone shows enough of that, and that doesn't even include the ass rapings they did on Marvin Harrison and the Colts receivers.


So when the colts do it it's physical play?  I can remember off the top of my head three instances in which Bob Sanders hit a pats receiver leading with his helmet this year alone.  The video you showed can be made for any physical defense.  It's a video that someone with way to much time on their hands put together that is one sided and biased.  Your making excuses for the colts, and it's as simple as that.  Again the colts db's were the most penalized db's in the NFL the year they won the sb, and you ignore this.  Just another sour excuse maker for a team that was as soft as a babys ass. Wahhh, wahhhh!!!

Quote
No, try the entire rest of the league.  Polian is a stand up guy, and was doing the responsible thing as a member of the competition committee.  When one team gets away with murder on the field, he was right to call them and the officials out on that, and bring back fair play to the league.

Lie. Show proof that the rest of the NFL felt the same way.  Your biased opinion is not fact. Also, you call polian a stand up guy....was that before or after he got drunk in the Jets press box and threatened to break the leg of a well respected journalist?  More twisting of the truth to push your biased agenda.  The pats still won in 2004 with the rule reemphasized, and by your words winning a sb during a time when the rules had been made "fair" again. Your envy is sickening.  The pats played rugged, football.  The NFL is not made for pussies like Bill Polian and the 03 colts.  What did Manning say: "we had some protection issues, as he threw his line under the bus"....typical, it's always some kind of excuse with fans like you and with the players that whine.  Thankfully Manning grew up and is now one of the best qb's ever.


Quote
LOL @ your bragging about your Pats knowledge - obvious clouded judgement, fanboy.  The impact players on the defense are old.  Besides Harrison and Tedy, 28, 29, and 30 is getting old in the NFL.   The few young guys on the defense (22,23, 26) are not impact guys like Seau, Harrison, Bruschi, Vrabel, and some of the cast offs they've sent to other teams. So the point remains.... they finished with a worse record than last year because of injuries and an aging defense, not because Brady to Cassell is a huge drop off.  Brady = product of the system, and is an above avg QB at best.  Certainly no Montana, Manning, Young, Elway, etc...
 
Hi pumpster/Bfury!  The most impactful players in a 3-4 are the defensive line. The nose who anchors the whole scheme (Wilfork 26), the DE that ties up two blockers (Seymour 28) and the DE who crashes the pocket(Warren 26).  Out of those players the oldest player (Seymour) is 28....that's the first dumb thing you said proven wrong.  Further more, the current crop of lb's (the guys who make the plays in a 3-4), are Mayo (Defensive rookie of the year Favorite), Guyton, Alexander, Vrabel and Thomas.  Again, Vrabel is the oldest of the bunch at 33. Mayo is 22, Guyton is 22, Alexander is 26 and Thomas is 30. Jr was only brought back when Ad Thomas went on ir. Lastly, you are simply incorrect in saying that the pats d is aging. I showed you that 90% of the starting D is either 20-25 or 25-28.  The only "old" players on the pats 2009 roster are Bru (if they keep him) and Harrison.  Both will be in limited roles.  As shown above AGAIN, you don't know shit about the patriots.  Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about!

Brady is a product of the system and he is average? Show me an average QB who SMASHED every single season QB record, won three sb's and passed for 50td's and 4 int's.  I know you are just trying to get a rise out of me, but your lack of football knowledge is embarrassing. The guy just won the MVP, lol.


Quote
I'm well aware of both Tags and Goods backgrounds.  That doesn't mean that can't buddy up with money man Bobby Kraft, and protect one of the league's most valued franchises.
Clearly you were not....and the fact you are ignoring my point which blew yours out of the water proves you are just trying to be a smartass, and lack basic knowledge of the NFL or the Patriots.  Your not going to get a rise out of me, you seem to be taking far more pleasure in this than me, ha!


Quote
Problem is, the videos don't lie.  Doesn't matter which fans of which teams made them.  The video evidence is the video evidence.  The Pats got away with murder in SB36, a game that was NOT called in accordance with the NFL rule book.  It was called in a way that would benefit their inferior team and allow them to break/bend the rules.  I know it must suck to hear that your championship is not legitimate, but sorry, it wasn't.  The video doesn't lie.
It must suck to be so insecure that you think it hurts my feelings to hear your mindless nonsense.  You're not right, and you're ob quite insecure :-/

Quote
They were "crushing people" within the bounds of the rule book.  And as you point out, when they were not within the rules, they were penalized for it.  That's why Polian wasn't complaining - it was all legit.
Why because you say so?  Again I form a great counter point to your nonsense and you come back with more baseless nonsense!  Show me the proof!!??

Quote
I already said he was an excellent coach.  Few would disagree with that.  But there's no question he's been the beneficiary of some lopsided officiating.  Like I said, his biggest strength as a HC is his ability to work around the rule book.  Kudos to him.
Another lie.....based on sour grapes and jealousy.  Just remember that the Giants won their first two sb's because of Bill Belichick  :)

Quote
No hate here, bub.  Just a fan of legitimate sport, not the financially motivated gifts that the NE franchise has gotten for so long.  Perhaps you should do some research into the early and mid-90's, when Ortmayer and the Pats were working a plan to move the Pats to St. Louis.
What does this have to do with anything LMAO!!??  Kraft was the one who put up his own money to keep the Pats in NE, at the time the Pats were making no money, and the best interest of the team would have been a move!
Quote
Of course... those wanting to gain favor with Goodell, Mike Pereira and the officials.  It's in their best interests to "hush" on the matter of spygate.
Why does Jimmy Johnson care about Goodel or Pereira....he is retired, and Parcels was also retired at the time.  More delusional garbage by hd.

Quote
Fixed.
You are DRIPPING with Jealousy!

Quote
I'm far less concerned about spygate than I am the blatant one-sided officiating on defensive backs that resulted in at least 2 of their 3 Super Bowl wins or playoff runs.
You seem to be the only one!!!!  Just more nonsense!  You're bitter as a lemon!!



Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: TrapsMcLats on December 29, 2008, 01:13:20 PM
is the most overrated QB in history.
Discuss

completely agree.  Unless you want INT's at critical moments of course... then he's your man.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: donthate1 on December 29, 2008, 01:20:13 PM
is the most overrated QB in history.
Discuss

Not overrated, but overpaid!

Just fukin retire already! 


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: GroinkTropin on December 29, 2008, 11:18:50 PM
fixed. For the doubters, show mw anyone who has done more with less.

Jason

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxnf5Tq-AcY  PUHHHHHLLLEEEEEZZZZEEEE black


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: HDPhysiques on December 30, 2008, 12:47:29 AM
LOL @ body88's epic meltdown.

So when the colts do it it's physical play?  I can remember off the top of my head three instances in which Bob Sanders hit a pats receiver leading with his helmet this year alone.

No shit - and he was PENALIZED for it - that's the point.  The Colts play solid D within the rules, and when they don't, they are appropriately penalized for it.  Something that the Pats, from 01-07 were not.

The video you showed can be made for any physical defense. 

Really?  Then where are they?  What other teams so blatantly got away with BULLSHIT that there are countless internet sites with video proof of it?   I'm waiting..........

It's a video that someone with way to much time on their hands put together that is one sided and biased.  Your making excuses for the colts, and it's as simple as that.  Again the colts db's were the most penalized db's in the NFL the year they won the sb, and you ignore this.

I'm not ignoring it at all - in fact, that's EXACTLY MY POINT!  The rest of the league gets flagged, while the Pats got away with murder, specifically in 01 and 04, and there is VIDEO PROOF.

Just another sour excuse maker for a team that was as soft as a babys ass. Wahhh, wahhhh!!!

Just another typical Pats fan meltdown. 

Lie. Show proof that the rest of the NFL felt the same way.  Your biased opinion is not fact.

Nor is yours. However, my "biased opinion" is supported with video evidence, while you just claim sour grapes.  You lose, jack.

Also, you call polian a stand up guy....was that before or after he got drunk in the Jets press box and threatened to break the leg of a well respected journalist?  More twisting of the truth to push your biased agenda. 

No, I only care about the field of play.  Obviously that's something you Pats fan want to turn the page on.

The pats still won in 2004 with the rule reemphasized, and by your words winning a sb during a time when the rules had been made "fair" again.

No, the rule was re-emphasized following the 2004 playoffs.  That was the year when the Colts were most victimized by Pats DB's.

Your envy is sickening. 

LOL @ envy.  Nah, I just have respect for legitimate sport, not a farce.

Thankfully Manning grew up and is now one of the best qb's ever.

Indeed, he's far better than Brady.

Hi pumpster/Bfury!  The most impactful players in a 3-4 are the defensive line. The nose who anchors the whole scheme (Wilfork 26), the DE that ties up two blockers (Seymour 28) and the DE who crashes the pocket(Warren 26).  Out of those players the oldest player (Seymour) is 28....that's the first dumb thing you said proven wrong.  Further more, the current crop of lb's (the guys who make the plays in a 3-4), are Mayo (Defensive rookie of the year Favorite), Guyton, Alexander, Vrabel and Thomas.  Again, Vrabel is the oldest of the bunch at 33. Mayo is 22, Guyton is 22, Alexander is 26 and Thomas is 30. Jr was only brought back when Ad Thomas went on ir. Lastly, you are simply incorrect in saying that the pats d is aging.

Every NFL analyst on every major network must be wrong then, and you're right.  :epic rollseyes:   The point was that they are not as good on defense this year than last, and that is why Cassell didn't go 16-0.  I would definitely argue that their injuries are more to blame than 1 additional year of aging on the defense, but the fact is every analyst made mention of the fact that their D is aging.  If guys like Bill Cowher, Jimmy Johnson, Marshall Faulk, Deion Sanders, Mark Schlereth, Ron Jaworski, etc.... are telling me that, I'm going to tend to take their word for it over yours.  Simple as that.  You can talk all you want about how they adjust their scheme, and who they plug in where, but the bottom line is, they are older, and more injured that last year, and that is why the D failed to produce like they did last year, and therefore why Cassell didn't enjoy the same team success that Brady did.

As shown above AGAIN, you don't know shit about the patriots.  Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about!

No, clearly you are a biased fanboy, incapable of seeing your team for what they really are.... an above average football team coached by an above average coach, who benefitted greatly from no-calls in Super Bowls and playoff games, thanks to their tight connections with the league office.

Brady is a product of the system and he is average? Show me an average QB who SMASHED every single season QB record, won three sb's and passed for 50td's and 4 int's.  I know you are just trying to get a rise out of me, but your lack of football knowledge is embarrassing. The guy just won the MVP, lol.

System & non-calls.  Of course, this is a cumulative effect.  The reason they, and he, did so well in 07, even under scrutiny after spygate, was because the talent level was so high.  Guys like Moss, Harrison, and Seymour took lower contracts in order to go to, or stay in, NE where they would be on a winning team.  Any defensive player, after seeing what you could get away with in NE, would love to play there and have a chance to win a ring, and pile up personal stats.

Clearly you were not....and the fact you are ignoring my point which blew yours out of the water proves you are just trying to be a smartass, and lack basic knowledge of the NFL or the Patriots.

Your point didn't blow anything of mine out of the water, sorry, bro.  In fact, my video evidence of their gift in SB36 cannot be refuted.

Your not going to get a rise out of me.....

It's obvious that I already have - you're in full blown meltmode.

It must suck to be so insecure that you think it hurts my feelings to hear your mindless nonsense.  You're not right, and you're ob quite insecure :-/ 

LOL - another resident Freud.  Knock yourself out, dude.  :rollseyes:

Why because you say so?  Again I form a great counter point to your nonsense and you come back with more baseless nonsense!  Show me the proof!!??

I've already shown you non-refutable video proof.  And if your "great counter point" was so great, then why do I not even know which of your fanboy rants you're even referring to?  You haven't even scored a point, let alone a "great counter point".

Another lie.....based on sour grapes and jealousy.  Just remember that the Giants won their first two sb's because of Bill Belichick  :)   

The Giants won because of Bill Parcells.  The same Bill Parcells that turned 1-15 Miami into a 11-5 division winner and playoff team.

What does this have to do with anything LMAO!!??  Kraft was the one who put up his own money to keep the Pats in NE, at the time the Pats were making no money, and the best interest of the team would have been a move!

The fact that you don't even know what I'm talking about here shows that you lack a significant amount of knowledge regarding your own teams history, and their near move to STL in the early-mid 90's.  Do some lookups on Steve Ortmayer, Jerry Clinton, Bobby Kraft, etc... and see what you come up with.

More delusional garbage by hd.
You are DRIPPING with Jealousy!
You seem to be the only one!!!!  Just more nonsense!  You're bitter as a lemon!!

No, I just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night.  ;)


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: BFP on December 30, 2008, 09:57:34 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxnf5Tq-AcY  PUHHHHHLLLEEEEEZZZZEEEE guy

Youre going to compare the Raiders when Jackson was there to the fucking Sanders' Lions? Surely youre kidding.

Jason


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: batista21 on January 07, 2009, 06:55:25 AM
I think that Brett Favre should just retire from football and start weight lifting/ bodybuilding.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: MuscleMcMannus on January 07, 2009, 07:20:02 AM
People that spend so much goddamn time preoccupied with football and quarterbacks are f'in losers!


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: George Whorewell on January 07, 2009, 07:27:00 AM
definetly not overrated- 3 time MVP ( Only Peyton manning has done that besides Favre), two superbowl appearences, one superbowl win+ the various records he holds.- Who gives a shit if he has the most int's? He's a gunslinger who takes a lot of risks. If not having a lot of int's mattered so much, Chad Pennington would be a hall of famer. As long as your teams win and you throw a lot of Td's, who cares? Outside of maybe a five year period between 95-00 ( which resulted in two superbowl appearences), he has played on mediocere teams where he has largely been the entire offense ( maybe throw in one or two years where Ahmad whats hisname was the running back and wasn't injured). He's a leader, a tough guy and has a rocket for an arm.

I do think that the idiots at ESPN overhype him way way way too much to the point where everyone is sick of hearing about him. As far as this year goes, he didn't play well down the stretch- But I blame a lot of that on the awful Jets coaching staff who tried to transform him into Chad Pennington instead of letting him be himself and throw the ball down field. Also, he had no game breaking receivers to throw to except the halfway decent and malcontent Laverneus Coles who dropped 80 million balls. That being said, he shouldn't have made the pro bowl this year, but who cares? Its a popularity contest.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Tre on January 07, 2009, 07:50:28 AM

'Favre' is the new f-word.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Tom on January 07, 2009, 07:51:27 AM
it's time to retire favre! don't be a hanger on and get punch drunk for the rest of your life! it would be different if he was on a super bowl contending team, but he's not and won't be so yeah you still love to play, but why play if you lose more than you win at this point in your career?

now, speaking of favre being such a 'good guy and a 'stand up guy" not to blow anyone's personal opinion of the man, but this is the same guy who has/had a addiction problem with scrips and also back in the day was known as one of the "three amigos" around town hanging out with mark chmura (?!) and was a known womanizer and getting plastered while wife and the kiddies were at home.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: Palpatine Q on January 07, 2009, 08:01:10 AM
I' know i'm jumping in late here but here's a few opinions.

When the Jets signed Favre, I wasn't overly thrilled. He was a good QB who got weekly blowjobs from the media no matter what he did on the field, which was throw a LOT of picks. especially later in his career. His "gunslinger" days were long gone.

Emmit smith was a FUCKING GREAT Running back. Scored TD's, had the heart of a lion and didn't put the ball on the ground. Barry Sanders was the best runner I have ever seen, but has zero rings.


The Patriots got away with MURDER in the secondary, I don't give a shit how many reports and stats you want to pull out of your ass. Their is physical play, and then there's laying the guy out before the ball arrives.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: CalvinH on January 07, 2009, 08:05:34 AM
Epic use of the qoute function in this thread :o


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: HDPhysiques on January 09, 2009, 12:18:36 AM
The Patriots got away with MURDER in the secondary, I don't give a shit how many reports and stats you want to pull out of your ass. Their is physical play, and then there's laying the guy out before the ball arrives.

Quoted for MASSIVE truth.

I will NEVER acknowledge them as the champions of SB36, and the Colts probably should've made it to one or two more SB's too.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: webcake on January 09, 2009, 12:34:31 AM
jesus christ!!  :o

whats with everyone posting their life stories?


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: kwri298 on January 09, 2009, 10:23:51 AM
it's time to retire favre! don't be a hanger on and get punch drunk for the rest of your life! it would be different if he was on a super bowl contending team, but he's not and won't be so yeah you still love to play, but why play if you lose more than you win at this point in your career?

now, speaking of favre being such a 'good guy and a 'stand up guy" not to blow anyone's personal opinion of the man, but this is the same guy who has/had a addiction problem with scrips and also back in the day was known as one of the "three amigos" around town hanging out with mark chmura (?!) and was a known womanizer and getting plastered while wife and the kiddies were at home.

Brett is all about Brett, he doesn't care about the team, he only cares about himself.  The Packers move forward because Brett said he was retiring then when he decides to un-retire he makes them look like the bad guys.  He left Green Bay in limbo for too many years.  Brett is someone who thinks he's entitled to things simply because he's Brett Favre.  Peyton Manning and Tom Brady both work very hard for where their at.  Brett Favre didn't even know what a Nickel defense was until he was in the league for a few years.  Brett Favre is the most overrated QB in the history of NFL IMO.


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: mass 04 on January 09, 2009, 10:27:25 AM
Brett is all about Brett, he doesn't care about the team, he only cares about himself.  The Packers move forward because Brett said he was retiring then when he decides to un-retire he makes them look like the bad guys.  He left Green Bay in limbo for too many years.  Brett is someone who thinks he's entitled to things simply because he's Brett Favre.  Peyton Manning and Tom Brady both work very hard for where their at.  Brett Favre didn't even know what a Nickel defense was until he was in the league for a few years.  Brett Favre is the most overrated QB in the history of NFL IMO.
YES YES. A 1000 TIMES YES!!!!!!


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: The Showstoppa on January 09, 2009, 10:41:15 AM
Yes, the leagues 3 time MVP is over-rated...

I am so glad that my favorite athlete of all-time, Larry Bird, retired before he faded too badly and was scrutinized by today sports fan with the attention span of a hummingbird. 
wow, how quickly people forget...


Title: Re: "Brett Favre"
Post by: kwri298 on January 09, 2009, 09:34:51 PM
Yes, the leagues 3 time MVP is over-rated...

I am so glad that my favorite athlete of all-time, Larry Bird, retired before he faded too badly and was scrutinized by today sports fan with the attention span of a hummingbird. 
wow, how quickly people forget...

So we agree ;D