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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Sports Discussion Boards => Topic started by: Option D on January 12, 2009, 11:39:33 AM
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This dude is underrated...
It was hilarious when he picked up the phone on the Giants sideline
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I loved Bravo Two Zero.
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Week to week man, I don't have much faith in him. But when he plays good he's great. But in BIG games he's not always consistent. The last 2 weeks he was. We'll see if he can make it 3 in a row.... then maybe 4
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under rated? 4 strait nfc 'chips is under rated?
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under rated? 4 strait nfc 'chips is under rated?
and they always callin for him to be out of philly. if i were him i would go. he isnt appreciated there
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I see pittsburgh beating the eagles in the bowl
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I think he's inconsistent but he def has a sense of self-preservation. Whenever they are going to boot his ass outta Philly, he wins some games. If they don't go to the SB I think he may be gone, if not they'll likely give him another year.
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I like McNabb don't get me wrong, But Philly doesn't anyone too long no matter who you are.
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Actually he's over-rated, because the hype for years had him identified with the level of play seen now, which has always only been part of it. He's streaky and only got going after having his ego deflated with the benching. He was always coddled and too damn comfortable in philly, needed a fire lit under his complacent ass.
Don't know about self-preservation, the fact is that his coach has always been overly-protective, which is exactly why McNabb was so shocked by the benching after all the years of favoritism.
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Actually he's over-rated, because the hype for years had him identified with the level of play seen now, which has always only been part of it. He's streaky and only got going after having his ego deflated with the benching. He was always coddled and too damn comfortable in philly, needed a fire lit under his complacent ass.
Pretty much spot on. They didn't want him there in the first place and Eagle fans are quick to turn. We may seem the same from Vince Young and maybe even Eli.
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hahahahahah 5 NFC championships....with a 70% pass offense and he plays quarterback with shitty wideouts...Who's overrated?...I swear. Man do yall even watch football
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hahahahahah 5 NFC championships....with a 70% pass offense and he plays quarterback with shitty wideouts...Who's overrated?...I swear. Man do yall even watch football
His WR aren't that shitty. TO made him look real good going to the SB. He's spotty at best now. It takes a blow to his ego to get him to play hard.
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His WR aren't that shitty. TO made him look real good going to the SB. He's spotty at best now. It takes a blow to his ego to get him to play hard.
I think he went to 3 nfc championships with out T.O. And
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And he has Westbrook who pretty much carries that offense. Dude is a work horse. The story with McNabb will be the same with Eli. Good performances here and there but they will get booted out of their respective cities at some point.
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And he has Westbrook who pretty much carries that offense. Dude is a work horse. The story with McNabb will be the same with Eli. Good performances here and there but they will get booted out of their respective cities at some point.
Nope...John Elway was a Choker till he won it..., Peyton Manning was a choke till he did it. Marino was a choke and he never did it...What about Jim Kelly...He got to 4 and he never did it.. they all had WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY better weapons than James Trash...just sayin ;)
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Other than T.O., McNabb has never had a great set of skill position players. He has done more with less than any QB in the NFL in the past ten years. Westbrook is a stud, but how many games has he missed? Just a few years ago McNabb's No. 1 WR was Todd Pinkston for goodness sake. Remember Thrash and Freddie Mitchell? Are those even in the league?
As I said in the other McNabb thread, name one QB who has been more successful than McNabb, other than Brady and Manning, in the last ten years (keeping in mind that Manning had Harrison and later Wayne).
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Other than T.O., McNabb has never had a great set of skill position players. He has done more with less than any QB in the NFL in the past ten years. Westbrook is a stud, but how many games has he missed? Just a few years ago McNabb's No. 1 WR was Todd Pinkston for goodness sake. Remember Thrash and Freddie Mitchell? Are those even in the league?
As I said in the other McNabb thread, name one QB who has been more successful than McNabb, other than Brady and Manning, in the last ten years (keeping in mind that Manning had Harrison and later Wayne).
TO, Donte Stallworth and Westbrooke are very good players. He didn't have tons of talent, but he has had no less than other QB's.
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TO, Donte Stallworth and Westbrooke are very good players. He didn't have tons of talent, but he has had no less than other QB's.
very true, most QB's dont have a Westbooke. also he has had for the most part the same group of coaches during his tenure which most QB's dont have. and how many QB's have had the kind of defense the Eagles have consistantly had.
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TO, Donte Stallworth and Westbrooke are very good players. He didn't have tons of talent, but he has had no less than other QB's.
His WRs were terrible. He had Stallworth for 12 games in 2006. He had the likes of Pinkston, Thrash, and Mitchell pretty much every year. When they gave him T.O. he went to the Super Bowl.
Other than Brady and Manning, which QB has performed better and accomplished more than McNabb in the past ten years?
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And he has Westbrook who pretty much carries that offense. Dude is a work horse. The story with McNabb will be the same with Eli. Good performances here and there but they will get booted out of their respective cities at some point.
Well Eli did win a Superbowl. ::)
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His WRs were terrible. He had Stallworth for 12 games in 2006. He had the likes of Pinkston, Thrash, and Mitchell pretty much every year. When they gave him T.O. he went to the Super Bowl.
Other than Brady and Manning, which QB has performed better and accomplished more than McNabb in the past ten years?
How about Kerry Collins. Started for 3 different teams, went to the Superbowl, and brought all 3 teams to the divisional playoffs at least once.
http://www.nfl.com/players/careerstats?id=COL620367
http://www.nfl.com/players/donovanmcnabb/profile?id=MCN017517
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How about Kerry Collins. Started for 3 different teams, went to the Superbowl, and brought all 3 teams to the divisional playoffs at least once.
http://www.nfl.com/players/careerstats?id=COL620367
http://www.nfl.com/players/donovanmcnabb/profile?id=MCN017517
Collins is really just an average QB IMO. The talking heads were saying all season that he "manages the game." I don't really agree. He has 186 TDs and 179 INTs in his career. That's about how he plays. Throws the ball to the other team as much as he throws to his own team.
He made the Pro Bowl 1 time in his career.
The fact he played in a Super Bowl is impressive, but I'd be more impressed if he took mediocre talent to the NFC/AFC championship game several times.
You think he has been more successful than McNabb the past ten years?
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Im in Atlanta right now listening to sports talk radio. Phil Sims is on the 2 live Stews...they asked him if McNabb is in the Hall of Fame...He Says "Absolutley, no question. He is going to 5 Nfc chamoinship games.
Then when asked if he shoud be in the hall he says "I dont know. I dont loose any sleep over it. But its disrespectful to McNabb to put my name in the same conversation with his.."
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His WRs were terrible. He had Stallworth for 12 games in 2006. He had the likes of Pinkston, Thrash, and Mitchell pretty much every year. When they gave him T.O. he went to the Super Bowl.
Other than Brady and Manning, which QB has performed better and accomplished more than McNabb in the past ten years?
Great qb's make poor receivers better.....Brady won sb's with wr's just as crappy as the ones you mentioned above. I'm not saying that you don't make a valid point, I'm saying that you are ignoring guys.
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Great qb's make poor receivers better.....Brady won sb's with wr's just as crappy as the ones you mentioned above. I'm not saying that you don't make a valid point, I'm saying that you are ignoring guys.
That's exactly what McNabb did. He took poor receivers to the NFC Championship game.
Who am I ignoring? I've asked several times in two threads who has outperformed McNabb over the last ten years other than Brady and Manning. Old School is the only person who offered a name (Collins).
The criticism of McNabb cannot be justified under any reasonable measure: wins, playoff appearances, playoff wins, TDs, TD v. INT ratio, yards. The only major flaw with McNabb is he always gets hurt.
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That's exactly what McNabb did. He took poor receivers to the NFC Championship game.
Who am I ignoring? I've asked several times in two threads who has outperformed McNabb over the last ten years other than Brady and Manning. Old School is the only person who offered a name (Collins).
The criticism of McNabb cannot be justified under any reasonable measure: wins, playoff appearances, playoff wins, TDs, TD v. INT ratio, yards. The only major flaw with McNabb is he always gets hurt.
got a point there
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Other than Brady and Manning, which QB has performed better and accomplished more than McNabb in the past ten years?
Kurt Warner
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Collins is really just an average QB IMO. The talking heads were saying all season that he "manages the game." I don't really agree. He has 186 TDs and 179 INTs in his career. That's about how he plays. Throws the ball to the other team as much as he throws to his own team.
He made the Pro Bowl 1 time in his career.
The fact he played in a Super Bowl is impressive, but I'd be more impressed if he took mediocre talent to the NFC/AFC championship game several times.
You think he has been more successful than McNabb the past ten years?
Not as successful, but just below if you're talking success of 10 years. I'd also say the same of Kurt Warner who wasn't drafted, yet won a Superbowl and has got there twice. And now also getting to the NFC championship with Arizona who is a deeply underrated team. Again, I'm talking success here. McNabb has been successful, but has choked on the most important games of his career.
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dont forget that for all the years that McNabb went to the NFC Championship game, the Eagles defense was one of the best in the league. he may not have had as many offensive threats on his side, but his defense was loaded and its not like he was blowing teams out. He manages the offense well enough to let his defense win the games.
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Kurt Warner
He played six years in St. Louis, with a nice three-year run with the "greatest show on turf," and a Super Bowl win, but not more successful than McNabb over the long haul. Fewer wins, fewer starts, fewer TDs, yards, Pro Bowls, etc. Also, Warner had Holt, Bruce, and Faulk (who was the best RB in the NFL at the time). Prolific offense. But after his six years in St. Louis, only three of which were good, he has been a journeyman. Nice job this year in Arizona, but he does have two of the best WRs in the NFL in Boldin and Fitzgerald.
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dont forget that for all the years that McNabb went to the NFC Championship game, the Eagles defense was one of the best in the league. he may not have had as many offensive threats on his side, but his defense was loaded and its not like he was blowing teams out. He manages the offense well enough to let his defense win the games.
Are you shittin me. you= didnt watch football in the early 2000's....if his defense was winning games..he dosent go to pro bowls. they threw 70% of the time...thats all him chief...he has a shit load of 300yrd games
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Not as successful, but just below if you're talking success of 10 years. I'd also say the same of Kurt Warner who wasn't drafted, yet won a Superbowl and has got there twice. And now also getting to the NFC championship with Arizona who is a deeply underrated team. Again, I'm talking success here. McNabb has been successful, but has choked on the most important games of his career.
I don't know. Collins doesn't impress me. He's no better than a backup IMO.
See my comments above about Warner. Very short run. Very bad stints after his three-years of greatness in St. Louis. Outstanding WR group in Arizona.
McNabb choked in the Super Bowl, but remember he got there without T.O., who didn't play in the NFC Championship game that year.
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mcnabb is over rated? another reason not to take pumpster seriously
lmaoo
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mcnabb is over rated? another reason not to take pumpster seriously
lmaoo
Yeah. That was my last time reading one of that guys posts
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Yeah. That was my last time reading one of that guys posts
seriously his and other's argument is that they had westbrook...well fuckhead's...wb was a backup for atleast 2 of the 4 nfc chip seasons...He wasn't even close to the breakout star he is as of late. buckhalter was solid...ill say that
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Are you shittin me. you= didnt watch football in the early 2000's....if his defense was winning games..he dosent go to pro bowls. they threw 70% of the time...thats all him chief...he has a shit load of 300yrd games
where was the eagles defense ranked all the years they went to the NFC championship games?
McNabb has put up good numbers and not made the playoffs, if J. Johnson has a bad year they dont see the post season.
and spare me the your weak Pro Bowl argument ::), its strictly a popularity contest and nothing more look to this years qb's for examples.
my point being McNabb not having any help on offense is a poor one because his team has had consistantly very good defenses.
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seriously his and other's argument is that they had westbrook...well fuckhead's...wb was a backup for atleast 2 of the 4 nfc chip seasons...He wasn't even close to the breakout star he is as of late. buckhalter was solid...ill say that
right.
the 2001-2005 nfc championship games only saw a good westbrook 2 out of those 4 years. And McNabb was still the man of that team.
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where was the eagles defense ranked all the years they went to the NFC championship games?
McNabb has put up good numbers and not made the playoffs, if J. Johnson has a bad year they dont see the post season.
and spare me the your weak Pro Bowl argument ::), its strictly a popularity contest and nothing more look to this years qb's for examples.
you shittin me right. Yeah they had a monster secondary. But mcnabb was the one who got the team going. defense didnt win games like the 2000 ravens or the 2008 steelers
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If McNabb had been a better QB they take it over the top alot sooner than 09, he's been there forever.
If he'd have been great, he wouldn't have been seriously outplayed at QB last year, and benched this year. Only the coach lighting a fire under his highly complacent and pampered ass triggerred better play, McNabb didn't do it on his own and isn't smart enough to realize even now that it was completely appropriate.
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you shittin me right. Yeah they had a monster secondary. But mcnabb was the one who got the team going. defense didnt win games like the 2000 ravens or the 2008 steelers
youre shitting me..the eagles D didnt win games?? ::) you need to look up where their D ranked all those years they were winning. and comparing the eagles D to the ravens of 2000 hardly sides with your point, thats completely secondary...if that.
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Nothing against McNabb. He's a great QB. But Jeff Garcia got the Eagles to the Division playoffs too with most of the same people McNabb has been playing with. They were 5-4 when McNabb went down and ended up 10-6. Personally I think any good QB who manages the game well could win in Philly.
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seriously his and other's argument is that they had westbrook...well fuckhead's...wb was a backup for atleast 2 of the 4 nfc chip seasons...He wasn't even close to the breakout star he is as of late. buckhalter was solid...ill say that
Westbrook is a serious weapon on that offense and anybody that doesn't believe that needs to watch all the games where Westbrook came up big and was McNabb's last out because he could no longer scramble like he used to.
Bottom line is that McNabb has gotten many chances and continues to be inconsistent. Garcia did a better job leading the team, just like Collins did this year in Tennessee. People are so quick to dismiss the entire Eagles team and claim McNabb was the reason they won games. Obviously their WRs could do something right because McNabb wasn't throwing to himself.
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Nothing against McNabb. He's a great QB. But Jeff Garcia got the Eagles to the Division playoffs too with most of the same people McNabb has been playing with. They were 5-4 when McNabb went down and ended up 10-6. Personally I think any good QB who manages the game well could win in Philly.
Exactly. Mcnabb is the type of guy who makes you say " this guy belongs with the top QB's in the NFL" then he puts together the worst game you have ever seen when it matters most. That said, maybe this year will be different.
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Exactly. Mcnabb is the type of guy who makes you say " this guy belongs with the top QB's in the NFL" then he puts together the worst game you have ever seen when it matters most. That said, maybe this year will be different.
Nice assessment. I agree.
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Nothing against McNabb. He's a great QB. But Jeff Garcia got the Eagles to the Division playoffs too with most of the same people McNabb has been playing with. They were 5-4 when McNabb went down and ended up 10-6. Personally I think any good QB who manages the game well could win in Philly.
Shit he is underrated too..
Gotta remember ..Garcia was a 3x Pro Bowler in SF before joining the Eagles
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Nothing against McNabb. He's a great QB. But Jeff Garcia got the Eagles to the Division playoffs too with most of the same people McNabb has been playing with. They were 5-4 when McNabb went down and ended up 10-6. Personally I think any good QB who manages the game well could win in Philly.
Garcia didn't get the Eagles to the NFC Championship game, like McNabb has done 5 times.
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Shit he is underrated too..
Gotta remember ..Garcia was a 3x Pro Bowler in SF before joining the Eagles
Not only that, but he has the best statistical year in Niner QB history (better than Montana and Young).
What's interesting (for those who think McNabb is overrated) is no one can really identify the laundry list of QBs who were better than McNabb the last ten years. He has easily been one of the top 5 best QBs in the NFL since 1998.
And as you pointed out in an earlier thread, Phil Simms is already saying McNabb should be in the HOF.
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Nothing against McNabb. He's a great QB. But Jeff Garcia got the Eagles to the Division playoffs too with most of the same people McNabb has been playing with. They were 5-4 when McNabb went down and ended up 10-6. Personally I think any good QB who manages the game well could win in Philly.
precisely my point.
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Not only that, but he has the best statistical year in Niner QB history (better than Montana and Young).
What's interesting (for those who think McNabb is overrated) is no one can really identify the laundry list of QBs who were better than McNabb the last ten years. He has easily been one of the top 5 best QBs in the NFL since 1998.
And as you pointed out in an earlier thread, Phil Simms is already saying McNabb should be in the HOF.
We understand that you can make an argument with the stats, but the knock on McNabb has always been that just when you start to consider him one of the elite qb's he puts together a horrible string of games, and stink up the joint. I think the overrated talk will stop when McNabb wins something significant. The pats went to the AFC title game in 06 and back to the sb in 07 and no one gives a shit. Manning went to several AFC championship games, and no one cared until he actually won one.
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What will stick out in my mind the most about with McNabb was his performance in the last moments of the SB. they had a chance to win the game yet he took his sweet time.
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We understand that you can make an argument with the stats, but the knock on McNabb has always been that just when you start to consider him one of the elite qb's he puts together a horrible string of games, and stink up the joint. I think the overrated talk will stop when McNabb wins something significant. The pats went to the AFC title game in 06 and back to the sb in 07 and no one gives a shit. Manning went to several AFC championship games, and no one cared until he actually won one.
Um . Yeah they actually did. When Manning went to the AFC championships he was still extremely hyped...in which he should have been...he just hadnt won one.
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We understand that you can make an argument with the stats, but the knock on McNabb has always been that just when you start to consider him one of the elite qb's he puts together a horrible string of games, and stink up the joint. I think the overrated talk will stop when McNabb wins something significant. The pats went to the AFC title game in 06 and back to the sb in 07 and no one gives a shit. Manning went to several AFC championship games, and no one cared until he actually won one.
It isn't just about stats. It's about whatever measure you want to use: wins, playoff appearances, playoff wins, winning while surrounded by poor talent, playing in the toughest division in football, TDs, yards, TD/INT ratio, you name it.
No one has made a reasonable argument that McNabb is overrated. If he is overrated, you could rattle off 10 or 15 QBs who have been more successful the past ten years. You can't. I admit he has had bad games. Who hasn't? For years I thought Manning was the best regular season QB in the NFL (better than Brady). He couldn't get it done in the playoffs. Does that mean Manning hasn't been one of the top 2 or 3 QBs in the NFL the past 8 to 10 years? No.
And just so everyone understands, I'm not an Eagles fan and not a huge McNabb fan. I don't like the fact he is injury prone. I think he acts like a space cadet sometimes. He did not handle the T.O. matter as well as he could have. Picking up the phone on the Giants sideline was bush league. He choked in the Super Bowl.
That said, you can't deny the facts. The man has produced like few other QBs in the NFL with some of the worst skill position players in the league.
The overrated talk is not supported by any sort of reasonable facts.
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It isn't just about stats. It's about whatever measure you want to use: wins, playoff appearances, playoff wins, winning while surrounded by poor talent, playing in the toughest division in football, TDs, yards, TD/INT ratio, you name it.
No one has made a reasonable argument that McNabb is overrated. If he is overrated, you could rattle off 10 or 15 QBs who have been more successful the past ten years. You can't. I admit he has had bad games. Who hasn't? For years I thought Manning was the best regular season QB in the NFL (better than Brady). He couldn't get it done in the playoffs. Does that mean Manning hasn't been one of the top 2 or 3 QBs in the NFL the past 8 to 10 years? No.
And just so everyone understands, I'm not an Eagles fan and not a huge McNabb fan. I don't like the fact he is injury prone. I think he acts like a space cadet sometimes. He did not handle the T.O. matter as well as he could have. Picking up the phone on the Giants sideline was bush league. He choked in the Super Bowl.
That said, you can't deny the facts. The man has produced like few other QBs in the NFL with some of the worst skill position players in the league.
The overrated talk is not supported by any sort of reasonable facts.
(In a real deep, black mans voice) YEAH!!!!
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(In a real deep, black mans voice) YEAH!!!!
lol. ;D
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It isn't just about stats. It's about whatever measure you want to use: wins, playoff appearances, playoff wins, winning while surrounded by poor talent, playing in the toughest division in football, TDs, yards, TD/INT ratio, you name it.
No one has made a reasonable argument that McNabb is overrated. If he is overrated, you could rattle off 10 or 15 QBs who have been more successful the past ten years. You can't. I admit he has had bad games. Who hasn't? For years I thought Manning was the best regular season QB in the NFL (better than Brady). He couldn't get it done in the playoffs. Does that mean Manning hasn't been one of the top 2 or 3 QBs in the NFL the past 8 to 10 years? No.
And just so everyone understands, I'm not an Eagles fan and not a huge McNabb fan. I don't like the fact he is injury prone. I think he acts like a space cadet sometimes. He did not handle the T.O. matter as well as he could have. Picking up the phone on the Giants sideline was bush league. He choked in the Super Bowl.
That said, you can't deny the facts. The man has produced like few other QBs in the NFL with some of the worst skill position players in the league.
The overrated talk is not supported by any sort of reasonable facts.
The idea that someone is "overrated" is based on what you make comparisons with. McNabb is overrated when he's grouped with quarterbacks such as Payton Manning and Tom Brady which is often where many people's expectations lie.
When McNabb is grouped with QB's such Rivers and Breez he's not.
McNabb is a great QB who has at times shown greatness on the field. But until he wins the BIG GAME he'll never be truly great and the tendency to compare him with the likes of Brady and Manning will always lead people to consider him over rated.
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It isn't just about stats. It's about whatever measure you want to use: wins, playoff appearances, playoff wins, winning while surrounded by poor talent, playing in the toughest division in football, TDs, yards, TD/INT ratio, you name it.
No one has made a reasonable argument that McNabb is overrated. If he is overrated, you could rattle off 10 or 15 QBs who have been more successful the past ten years. You can't. I admit he has had bad games. Who hasn't? For years I thought Manning was the best regular season QB in the NFL (better than Brady). He couldn't get it done in the playoffs. Does that mean Manning hasn't been one of the top 2 or 3 QBs in the NFL the past 8 to 10 years? No.
And just so everyone understands, I'm not an Eagles fan and not a huge McNabb fan. I don't like the fact he is injury prone. I think he acts like a space cadet sometimes. He did not handle the T.O. matter as well as he could have. Picking up the phone on the Giants sideline was bush league. He choked in the Super Bowl.
That said, you can't deny the facts. The man has produced like few other QBs in the NFL with some of the worst skill position players in the league.
The overrated talk is not supported by any sort of reasonable facts.
Maybe overrated is too strong a term. He is great when the BIG game isn't at hand (NFC Championship and Superbowl). Jim Kelly was a great quarterback, but until McNabb wins the big one, he'll be in the same league.
I'll agree that McNabb is undoubtedly the best QB the NFC has had in the last 10 years. Maybe that's why the NFC hasn't won many SB's either. Only 3 NFC wins in the last 10 years and those QB's were Warner, Brad Johnson, and Eli Manning. Eh. Let's see if McNabb can beat out Warner this time.
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Maybe overrated is too strong a term. He is great when the BIG game isn't at hand (NFC Championship and Superbowl). Jim Kelly is a great quarterback, but until McNabb wins the big one, he'll be in the same league.
I'll agree that McNabb is undoubtedly the best QB the NFC has had in the last 10 years. Maybe that's why the NFC hasn't won many SB's either. Only 3 NFC wins in the last 10 years and those QB's were Warner, Brad Johnson, and Eli Manning. Eh. Let's see if McNabb can beat out Warner this time.
Dam we essentially said the same thing. :-\ ;D Dick.
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Ass
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Ass
One thing for sure, If by some miracle, the Eagles win the Super Bowl, he should call T.O. out at the press conference afterwards. :D
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Yeah. Just make sure the phone has the Dallas Cowboys insignia on it though.
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Yeah. Just make sure the phone has the Dallas Cowboys insignia on it though.
He could say: "Yeah T.O. it's even less tiring when you win a super bowl!"
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Um . Yeah they actually did. When Manning went to the AFC championships he was still extremely hyped...in which he should have been...he just hadnt won one.
Most of the media refereed to Manning as an amazing qb who never could win the big one. I was not referring to Manning being "hyped", I was talking about his peers and the media. Unless you win the big one it's all for nothing in many peoples eyes.
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The idea that someone is "overrated" is based on what you make comparisons with. McNabb is overrated when he's grouped with quarterbacks such as Payton Manning and Tom Brady which is often where many people's expectations lie.
When McNabb is grouped with QB's such Rivers and Breez he's not.
McNabb is a great QB who has at times shown greatness on the field. But until he wins the BIG GAME he'll never be truly great and the tendency to compare him with the likes of Brady and Manning will always lead people to consider him over rated.
I'm comparing McNabb with every QB in the NFL.
I don't think anyone has said that McNabb is better than Brady and Manning. He isn't. But in two threads some have argued that he is simply isn't very good (not true); that he is overrated (he isn't). Outside of Brady and Manning, both of whom are better than every other QB in the NFL, there isn't another QB in the NFL with McNabb's success. I don't think many talk about him as one of the top 3 QBs in the NFL over the past decade, but he is. So from that standpoint, he's actually underrated.
McNabb has had a HOF career whether he wins the "big one" or not. From that angle, he isn't much different than Jim Kelly, pre-Super Bowl winner John Elway, Marino, pre-Super Bowl winner Manning, Dan Fouts, or any other QB who never won a championship. They were all great QBs, whether they won rings or not.
Also, keep in mind what he has done with the talent around him. I'd be more critical if he had Harrison/Wayne and didn't get to the Super Bowl. That's why I think what Brady did is so great. He won his Super Bowls without having the best WRs in the league. When they gave him Moss, Welker, etc., he set records and went to the Super Bowl. McNabb did the same thing (achieved with average or even sub par talent and went to the Super Bowl when they got him T.O.).
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I'm comparing McNabb with every QB in the NFL.
I don't think anyone has said that McNabb is better than Brady and Manning. He isn't. But in two threads some have argued that he is simply isn't very good (not true); that he is overrated (he isn't). Outside of Brady and Manning, both of whom are better than every other QB in the NFL, there isn't another QB in the NFL with McNabb's success. I don't think many talk about him as one of the top 3 QBs in the NFL over the past decade, but he is. So from that standpoint, he's actually underrated.
McNabb has had a HOF career whether he wins the "big one" or not. From that angle, he isn't much different than Jim Kelly, pre-Super Bowl winner John Elway, Marino, pre-Super Bowl winner Manning, Dan Fouts, or any other QB who never won a championship. They were all great QBs, whether they won rings or not.
Also, keep in mind what he has done with the talent around him. I'd be more critical if he had Harrison/Wayne and didn't get to the Super Bowl. That's why I think what Brady did is so great. He won his Super Bowls without having the best WRs in the league. When they gave him Moss, Welker, etc., he set records and went to the Super Bowl. McNabb did the same thing (achieved with average or even sub par talent and went to the Super Bowl when they got him T.O.).
I see what you are saying. It's the standards set based on a certain POV that cause people to call him overrated and your point about him being a very QB is valid.
If he wins the Super Bowl he'll be regarded as a great QB, until then he's just good.
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I see what you are saying. It's the standards set based on a certain POV that cause people to call him overrated and your point about him being a very QB is valid.
If he wins the Super Bowl he'll be regarded as a great QB, until then he's just good.
That's only if the standard for greatness means you win a Super Bowl. I don't think that's the standard. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl.
Marino was a great QB. Fouts was a great QB. There are many others who were great QBs and didn't win Super Bowls.
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That's only if the standard for greatness means you win a Super Bowl. I don't think that's the standard. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl.
Marino was a great QB. Fouts was a great QB. There are many others who were great QBs and didn't win Super Bowls.
Ageed, but did they have a tendency to choke when it was all on the line? A great QB is not made by a superbowl or by having great stats, it's a mixture of the both, poise and superior decision making. Right now McNabb is lacking many qualities that make a guy great and not just very good. Currently, McNabb is very streaky in regards to his play. Btw, the NFC east has certainly not been the best division in football for McNabb's entire tenure. Great players make average players around them better.
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Ageed, but did they have a tendency to choke when it was all on the line? A great QB is not made by a superbowl or by having great stats, it's a mixture of the both, poise and superior decision making. Right now McNabb is lacking many qualities that make a guy great and not just very good. Currently, McNabb is very streaky in regards to his play.
He choked in the Super Bowl. Did he also choke in all of those playoff games the Eagles won the last 8 years? Did he choke in every NFC Championship game? I doubt it. I'd tie his performance directly to the likes of Thrash, Pinkston, and Mitchell, who will never be confused with Harrison/Wayne, Boldin/Fitzgerald, etc.
But let's assume he is streaky. That just means there is a flaw in his game. Every QB has flaws. (Except for Joe Montana. :D) I thought Manning played his worst football in the playoffs for years. He was/is still a great QB.
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That's only if the standard for greatness means you win a Super Bowl. I don't think that's the standard. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl.
Marino was a great QB. Fouts was a great QB. There are many others who were great QBs and didn't win Super Bowls.
Do you think McNabb is on the same level as Marino and Fouts?
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That's only if the standard for greatness means you win a Super Bowl. I don't think that's the standard. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl.
Marino was a great QB. Fouts was a great QB. There are many others who were great QBs and didn't win Super Bowls.
Its not my standard, of course. But a winning record, with good stats and super bowl vics makes you a great QB almost certainly.
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Do you think McNabb is on the same level as Marino and Fouts?
Not yet.
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Its not my standard, of course. But a winning record, with good stats and super bowl vics makes you a great QB almost certainly.
I agree.
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Not yet.
I don't think he'll ever be seen in that company if he doesn't win a super bowl. But he may compile stats to justify it by the time he's all done, who knows.
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I don't think he'll ever be seen in that company if he doesn't win a super bowl. But he may compile stats to justify it by the time he's all done, who knows.
I don't think he has to be in the Marino/Fouts category to be considered great. Those guys are really on another level.
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How many come from behind wins had McNabb had? I don't know and I also feel that shows what a great QB is. Coming from behind shows moxie and focus. IMO, if a QB's team leads all the time through a game, he's untested. That's what made Montana, Brady,Elway, Manning, Staubach, etc. put on elite levels.
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He choked in the Super Bowl. Did he also choke in all of those playoff games the Eagles won the last 8 years? Did he choke in every NFC Championship game? I doubt it. I'd tie his performance directly to the likes of Thrash, Pinkston, and Mitchell, who will never be confused with Harrison/Wayne, Boldin/Fitzgerald, etc.
But let's assume he is streaky. That just means there is a flaw in his game. Every QB has flaws. (Except for Joe Montana. :D) I thought Manning played his worst football in the playoffs for years. He was/is still a great QB.
The story on McNabb has been the same for years. A guy who is a great qb, but when it comes down to it, he finds a way to stink up the joint so bad that you second guess calling him great. He does not make players around him better, but he shows flashes of being elite for short periods.
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How many come from behind wins had McNabb had? I don't know and I also feel that shows what a great QB is. Coming from behind shows moxie and focus. IMO, if a QB's team leads all the time through a game, he's untested. That's what made Montana, Brady,Elway, Manning, Staubach, etc. put on elite levels.
Agree.
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The story on McNabb has been the same for years. A guy who is a great qb, but when it comes down to it, he finds a way to stink up the joint so bad that you second guess calling him great. He does not make players around him better, but he shows flashes of being elite for short periods.
I agree he has been inconsistent at times.
On the other hand, the fact he took sub par talent to the NFC Championship game multiple times really cuts against the argument that he does not make the players around him better. Look where they are now with a rookie and Kevin Curtis at WR. They have overachieved . . . again.
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I agree he has been inconsistent at times.
On the other hand, the fact he took sub par talent to the NFC Championship game multiple times really cuts against the argument that he does not make the players around him better. Look where they are now with a rookie and Kevin Curtis at WR. They have overachieved . . . again.
Why do you keep leaving out Westbrooke and their good offensive line? The Eagles D is pretty damn good to (ranked 3rd in the NFL this year?). If McNabb made guys around him better, than they don't stink......which goes against you saying he has no one to throw to. Until he wins something he is good not great. If he takes the Eagles to the sb and wins he is great.
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Why do you keep leaving out Westbrooke and their good offensive line? The Eagles D is pretty damn good to (ranked 3rd in the NFL this year?). If McNabb made guys around him better, than they don't stink......which goes against you saying he has no one to throw to. Until he wins something he is good not great. If he takes the Eagles to the sb and wins he is great.
yeah they did good this year..
IMO i think he is already great
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yeah they did good this year..
IMO i think he is already great
That's cool. But to me great = Brady, Montana and Manning.
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What will stick out in my mind the most about with McNabb was his performance in the last moments of the SB. they had a chance to win the game yet he took his sweet time.
He wasn't great most of the game, the opposite of steppin up. Clearly psyched out to the point of throwing up and playing well below good let alone great.
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Why do you keep leaving out Westbrooke and their good offensive line? The Eagles D is pretty damn good to (ranked 3rd in the NFL this year?). If McNabb made guys around him better, than they don't stink......which goes against you saying he has no one to throw to. Until he wins something he is good not great. If he takes the Eagles to the sb and wins he is great.
I'm not leaving out Westbrook. He is a stud. But he suffers from the same problem as McNabb (injury prone). Also, he didn't become a starter till about 2004. He only started 3 games in 2002, 8 games in 2003, and 12 games in 2004. McNabb was already taking Thrash, etc. deep into to playoffs by that point.
The Eagles D really doesn't have anything to do with McNabb making sub par WRs better.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on the standard for greatness. He doesn't need a Super Bowl win to prove he is great. I agree with Phil Simms. :)
Also, the issue wasn't whether or not he is "great." It was whether he is overrated. I'm still waiting for your laundry list of QBs that outperformed McNabb the past ten years. :)
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Phil Simms is hardly the arbiter, much of what he says is fluff, doesn't want to offend some of his buds.
Definitely over-rated-if he'd played most or all of his career as he is now or has every once in a while during a streak, he'd deserve the accolades. Even for his style of QBing, he's not the best, McNair was better. McNair wasn't over-hyped, he was justifiably considered very good, just short of great, which left him near the top at the time and a few notches higher than McNabb.
It'll be amusing to see Bum try to come up with any serious list of great QBs who were streaky like McNabb. NONE come to mind. ;D
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I'm not leaving out Westbrook. He is a stud. But he suffers from the same problem as McNabb (injury prone). Also, he didn't become a starter till about 2004. He only started 3 games in 2002, 8 games in 2003, and 12 games in 2004. McNabb was already taking Thrash, etc. deep into to playoffs by that point.
The Eagles D really doesn't have anything to do with McNabb making sub par WRs better.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on the standard for greatness. He doesn't need a Super Bowl win to prove he is great. I agree with Phil Simms. :)
Also, the issue wasn't whether or not he is "great." It was whether he is overrated. I'm still waiting for your laundry list of QBs that outperformed McNabb the past ten years. :)
The eagles D has something to do with the teams success. In regards to McNabb making receivers better, if that is true, your argument is slightly flawed imo. If McNabb causes his receivers to overachieve they are no longer garbage....unless you're saying that they are so terrible that even with McNabb elevating their play they still stink. Whats the difference between an average QB with great receivers and a Great QB (as you say) with average receivers? I'd say it's a wash. As I said before great QB's make average receivers better, and they excel when it matter most. They win, plain and simple. Westbrooke has a lot to do with the Eagles success, because teams have to change their whole gameplan around him. This year that rookie McNabb has is pretty damn good if you ask me.
I'm not talking about being overrated or underrated. I'm talking about being great. McNabb is not great. Until he stops being a streaky choker and he wins something of substance he is not great. No one cares if you win an AFC championship game. If he wins it all this year I will change my tune. Great = Brady, Montana, Manning. Very good = McNabb.
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The eagles D has something to do with the teams success. In regards to McNabb making receivers better, if that is true, your argument is slightly flawed imo. If McNabb causes his receivers to overachieve they are no longer garbage....unless you're saying that they are so terrible that even with McNabb elevating their play they still stink. Whats the difference between an average QB with great receivers and a Great QB (as you say) with average receivers? I'd say it's a wash. As I said before great QB's make average receivers better, and they excel when it matter most. They win, plain and simple. Westbrooke has a lot to do with the Eagles success, because teams have to change their whole gameplan around him. This year that rookie McNabb has is pretty damn good if you ask me.
I'm not talking about being overrated or underrated. I'm talking about being great. McNabb is not great. Until he stops being a streaky choker and he wins something of substance he is not great. No one cares if you win an AFC championship game. If he wins it all this year I will change my tune. Great = Brady, Montana, Manning. Very good = McNabb.
You're not really saying McNabb has had good WRs and TEs in Philly, are you?
What about Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, Dan Marino, and Dan Fouts. Were they "great" QBs?
Was Trent Dilfer a great QB?
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Why do you keep leaving out Westbrooke and their good offensive line? The Eagles D is pretty damn good to (ranked 3rd in the NFL this year?).
thats my point, everyone says he did all this with no help. all the years he won the NFC championships, he had one of the best defenses in the league, with one of the best D coordinators in the league. A defense like that can be just as helpful as an All Pro wide receiver.
and Westbrooke is one of the best int he league.
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That's only if the standard for greatness means you win a Super Bowl. I don't think that's the standard. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl.
Marino was a great QB. Fouts was a great QB. There are many others who were great QBs and didn't win Super Bowls.
winning a SB doesnt make you a great QB. a QB doesnt do it by himself. Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Jim McMahon, Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson all won the SB.
you could be the greatest QB ever and if your team isnt good enough then you're not going to win it period. you need a defense.
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winning a SB doesnt make you a great QB. a QB doesnt do it by himself. Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Jim McMahon, Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson all won the SB.
you could be the greatest QB ever and if your team isnt good enough then you're not going to win it period. you need a defense.
I agree.
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You're not really saying McNabb has had good WRs and TEs in Philly, are you?
What about Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, Dan Marino, and Dan Fouts. Were they "great" QBs?
Was Trent Dilfer a great QB?
No, I'm saying that you said that McNabb was a GREAT player who made those around him better. If that is true, then he was not surrounded by offensive garbage because he made them better than average. Whats the difference between an ELITE qb with average recievers and an average QB with great recievers? Matt Leinert had the same team that Warner has and they stunk under him.
Trent Dilfer was not a great QB because he did not have the stats to go with the sb win. I said that the reason that McNabb is not a great player yet, it because he chokes in big situations and has yet to lead his team to sb. The great ones don't choke.
Did the above qb's play streaky and cost their team sb's at every chance they got?
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winning a SB doesnt make you a great QB. a QB doesnt do it by himself. Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Jim McMahon, Phil Simms, Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, Brad Johnson all won the SB.
you could be the greatest QB ever and if your team isnt good enough then you're not going to win it period. you need a defense.
I never said that sb's made the QB. It's a combination of sb's, stats and showing the ability to lead your team to huge wins. McNabb has been a choker up to this point. The great ones don't puke during a big game. They show leadership and poise. Who would you rather have at the helm of your team in the sb? Brady, Manning or McNabb? McNabb is not great yet.
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I never said that sb's made the QB. It's a combination of sb's, stats and showing the ability to lead your team to huge wins. McNabb has been a choker up to this point. The great ones don't puke during a big game. They show leadership and poise. Who would you rather have at the helm of your team in the sb? Brady, Manning or McNabb? McNabb is not great yet.
yeah i know you didnt say that, there are many average qb's who have won it because they were on a good team.
i can think of many qb's who i'd rather have on a good team in the SB other than McNabb, his performance in the last minutes of the SB against your Pats was horrendous.
McNabb has had enough help to win the SB IMO.
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No, I'm saying that you said that McNabb was a GREAT player who made those around him better. If that is true, then he was not surrounded by offensive garbage because he made them better than average. Whats the difference between an ELITE qb with average recievers and an average QB with great recievers? Matt Leinert had the same team that Warner has and they stunk under him.
Trent Dilfer was not a great QB because he did not have the stats to go with the sb win. I said that the reason that McNabb is not a great player yet, it because he chokes in big situations and has yet to lead his team to sb. The great ones don't choke.
Did the above qb's play streaky and cost their team sb's at every chance they got?
The fact McNabb was able to succeed with below average WRs doesn't mean those WRs became good. It just means he is that good and made those average WRs play better. Maybe it's more accurate to say he succeeded in spite of them.
An average QB is always going to be average IMO. He could be more successful with "great" WRs, but at the end of the day he's still going to be average.
I've never been a Leinart fan. Warner had one of the best seasons in NFL history with the Rams, so he's already proved he can be "great." His problem is he can't play under pressure. Give him time and good WRs and he'll produce.
How do you characterize McNabb's WRs and TEs the past 8 years?
You said McNabb needs to win a Super Bowl before he can be considered great. I disagree. I guess that's just a matter of opinion.
Your comments about him choking in big games are not supported by his stats. All playoff games are "big games." I just looked at his playoff numbers. Here they are:
01:
Game 1: 24 for 33, 161 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 8 carries for 32 yards, 1 TD
Game 2: 20 for 41, 181 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT
02:
Game 1: 16 for 25, 194 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT
Game 2: 26 for 40, 262 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 4 carries for 57 yards
Game 3: 18 for 30, 171 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 4 carries for 26 yards, 1 TD
03:
Game 1: 20 for 30, 247, 1 TD, 0 INTs, 4 carries for 24 yards
04:
Game 1: 21 for 39, 248 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs, 11 carries for 107 yards
05:
Game 1: 21 for 33, 286 yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs
Game 2: 11 for 24, 136 yards, 0 TDs, 1 INT, 4 carries for 26 yards
Game 3: 30 for 51, 357 yards, 3 TDs, 3 INTs
09:
Game 1: 23 for 34, 300 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
Game 2: 22 for 40, 217, 1 TD, 2 INTs, 5 carries for 16 yards, 1 TD
Keep in mind that his WRs were Thrash, Pinkston, Freddie Mitchell, etc. for most of those games.
Do you think Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, Dan Marino, and Dan Fouts were "great" QBs?
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Playoff Numbers
Passing
19Tds 12 Ints
252-440 57%
3 Rushing touchdowns
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Playoff Numbers
Passing
19Tds 12 Ints
252-440 57%
3 Rushing touchdowns
Sb wins? At this point he's good but not great. He will be great if he wins it all.
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The fact McNabb was able to succeed with below average WRs doesn't mean those were WRs became good. It just means he is that good and made those average WRs play better. Maybe it's more accurate to say he succeeded in spite of them.
An average QB is always going to be average IMO. He could be more successful with "great" WRs, but at the end of the day he's still going to be average.
I've never been a Leinart fan. Warner had one of the best seasons in NFL history with the Rams, so he's already proved he can be "great." His problem is he can't play under pressure. Give him time and good WRs and he'll produce.
How do you characterize McNabb's WRs and TEs the past 8 years?
You said McNabb needs to win a Super Bowl before he can be considered great. I disagree. I guess that's just a matter of opinion.
Your comments about him choking in big games are not supported by his stats. All playoff games are "big games." I just looked at his playoff numbers. Here they are:
if he is so great, why arent free agent WR'ers or TE rushing to play in Phili?
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if he is so great, why arent free agent WR'ers or TE rushing to play in Phili?
Please tell me that you didnt just type that
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Do you think Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, Dan Marino, and Dan Fouts were "great" QBs?
i think 4 are better. Marino easily.
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Please tell me that you didnt just type that
please tell me you have more than that ::)
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please tell me you have more than that ::)
Dude the NFL free agent process is way more complicated than that.
Wideouts would love to play with McNabb..
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if he is so great, why arent free agent WR'ers or TE rushing to play in Phili?
I have no idea. Salary cap? Bad personnel decisions? Poor drafting? What does that have to do with McNabb? Why didn't FA WRs flock to NE to play with Brady for years?
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i think 4 are better. Marino easily.
Wasn't asking if they are better than McNabb. I was asking if body considered them "great." His standard for greatness includes winning a Super Bowl and none of those QBs won a Super Bowl.
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I have no idea. Salary cap? Bad personnel decisions? Poor drafting? What does that have to with McNabb? Why didn't FA WRs flock to NE to play with Brady for years?
free agents such as Randy Moss and Corey Dillon...
also NE already had multiple SB rings so they didnt need to drop a large amount of cash for WR's or other free agents. why should they? they were hugely successful w/o them.
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Dude the NFL free agent process is way more complicated than that.
Wideouts would love to play with McNabb..
as surprising as this may be to you free agents have more pull than you think, they're not helpless.
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free agents such as Randy Moss and Corey Dillon...
also NE already had multiple SB rings so they didnt need to drop a large amount of cash for WR's or other free agents. why should they? they were hugely successful w/o them.
NE had a pretty average WR group for years before Moss.
Maybe the reason Philly didn't bring in more high profile WRs is they were winning without them? I don't know. . . .
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NE had a pretty average WR group for years before Moss.
Maybe the reason Philly didn't bring in more high profile WRs is they were winning without them? I don't know. . . .
Why didn't FA WRs flock to NE to play with Brady for years?
Yes NE had average wideouts years before Moss but they were still winning SB's. thats why FA WR's werent flocking to NE like you asked, the FA WR's would have NO leverage, all the leverage was with NE due to their success.
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McNabb would have to do more than win a SB to be great, he would have to consistently maintain his current performance for a couple of years minimum. Just a SB win puts him in Dilfer/Doug Williams territory.
Wideouts as i mentioned and as just mentioned by someone else is a weak argument, others have won with solid rather than great wideouts. McNabb hasn't.
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21-6 so far. McNabb must be so frustrated being that he has no help ::)
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Here we go again. McNabb choking on some bad throws. But the defense ain't helping him out any.
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Here we go again. McNabb choking on some bad throws. But the defense ain't helping him out any.
"another open receiver for McNabb and another miss" Joe Buck
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"another open receiver for McNabb and another miss" Joe Buck
hahaha still watchin?
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hahaha still watchin?
good game!
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This next play will decide if McNabb and Reid stay in Pbilly..
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Sorry Beach, but like I said a great quarterback can come from behind and win. McNabb will play for Tampa next year.
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I say he's gone after this game. So many shitty passes and piss poor leadership. Defense was nothing special but McNabb blew big time. More spotty performance from a good QB, not a great one.
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i think McNabb will be back. he is a good qb, who else are they going to get?
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i think McNabb will be back. he is a good qb, who else are they going to get?
Someone who will be consistent. McNabb is not irreplaceable.
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maybe Hank Baskett don't like catching the football.
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maybe Hank Baskett don't like catching the football.
Just Hefners leftovers :-\
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McNabb and Bum fastidiously maintaining that unblemished .000 record. ;D :D
McNabb, Reid lose chance at redemption
Champions write their own legacy. Everyone else's gets written for them.
That is the reality for Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb, the coach and quarterback who reached five NFC championship games together and will now be remembered mostly for losing four of them and a Super Bowl.
Whether that's fair is beside the point. When the Eagles lost 32-25 to the Arizona Cardinals yesterday, Reid and McNabb lost the chance to write their own redemption story.
"It's a very sudden thing when you lose in the playoffs," Reid said through his soon-to-be-shaved playoff beard. "They all hurt. These are different guys. Every team is different."
McNabb had one more shot to write himself a new one. The Eagles' march to midfield with under 3 minutes left gave them plenty of time to drive for a tying touchdown. Four incompletions from the Arizona 47 ended the season.
McNabb, trying to put the ball over defenders, overthrew Jackson on second down. On third, he was forced to throw quickly as a blitzing defender closed and the ball was behind Hank Baskett.
Fourth-and-10 will linger longest, however.
Kevin Curtis was matched up with former Eagles cornerback Rod Hood. As Curtis cut toward the sideline, he stumbled. McNabb, throwing in rhythm, put the ball right where Curtis should have been. The receiver got his hands up and almost made the catch, but the combination of gravity's tug and the quickness with which the ball was upon him was too much.
Hood may have reached out and tripped Curtis up. It was hard to tell from replays.
"All I know is my man went down," McNabb said.
But Curtis, who deflected a pass that turned into McNabb's only interception, didn't have his legacy on the line. Neither did the other receivers who dropped passes during a futile first-half stretch. Neither did Asante Samuel or Sheldon Brown, who were abused by Cards superstar wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald.
McNabb did. That explains why he was the last player off the field, walking up the tunnel with a stunned expression. It explains the weariness in his eyes and voice as he answered familiar questions about an all-too-familiar result. When someone asked if this team's late surge meant it was building toward a bright future, McNabb's eyes widened in disbelief.
"I guess I've been building for 10 years," McNabb said, in a tone that made it sound like a very long time.
There's no way to know if McNabb and Reid will ever have another chance. Certainly no one saw this one coming.
"You say 'next time,' but you can't really do that with this," Reid said. "That's not how this works."
Twenty-eight NFL teams are fighting to get to where the Eagles were. Coaches have been fired and hired. Players will be released and drafted and signed. Another spring of minicamps and another hot summer of two-a-days will pass before the opening kickoff of another punishing regular season.
When you consider all that, it really is remarkable that Reid and McNabb have been able to make these five trips to the final four. It has been a superb run by the coach and the quarterback, but that will not be their legacy. Not now.
They lost that chance yesterday.
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Sorry Beach, but like I said a great quarterback can come from behind and win. McNabb will play for Tampa next year.
You think a "great" QB would have resulted in Curtis catching that ball on 4th and 10? McNabb played a very good game. Well enough to win. He put the ball on the money on 4th and 10. Curtis was basically tackled and he didn't make the catch, despite getting two hands on the ball. Fitzgerald would have made that catch. Kevin Curtis, who is a WR3 at best, did not. That has nothing to do with McNabb.
The guy had Curtis, Jackson, and Celek as his WRs and TE. Pitiful. Westbrook had 12 carries for 45 yards. Despite that, McNabb was 28 for 47 for 375 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT, and had 2 carries for 31 yards. Completed passes to 9 different receivers. Couldn't ask for much more.
I heard someone say that McNabb has had exactly 1 thousand yard WR in his career (T.O.). That's just shameful. He overachieved again despite being surrounded by pretty average talent.
If he winds up in Tampa they'll be a better team and the Eagles probably don't make the playoffs. Kevin Kolb is no McNabb.
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You think a "great" QB would have resulted in Curtis catching that ball on 4th and 10? McNabb played a very good game. Well enough to win. He put the ball on the money on 4th and 10. Curtis was basically tackled and he didn't make the catch, despite getting two hands on the ball. Fitzgerald would have made that catch. Kevin Curtis, who is a WR3 at best, did not. That has nothing to do with McNabb.
The guy had Curtis, Jackson, and Celek as his WRs and TE. Pitiful. Westbrook had 12 carries for 45 yards. Despite that, McNabb was 28 for 47 for 375 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT, and had 2 carries for 31 yards. Completed passes to 9 different receivers. Couldn't ask for much more.
I heard someone say that McNabb has had exactly 1 thousand yard WR in his career (T.O.). That's just shameful. He overachieved again despite being surrounded by pretty average talent.
If he winds up in Tampa they'll be a better team and the Eagles probably don't make the playoffs. Kevin Kolb is no McNabb.
I agree with this assessment. You really can't fault McNabb too much on this loss. the defense gave up 30+. Not going to win too many games like that no matter who you have behind the center.
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Underrated????????? How about over the hill....like the rest of his teamates. The NFL world knows Dallas will be back!!!!!! Sooner or later it will be all ours again. For the next 5 yrs the Super Bowl will belong to the BOYZ. W/o us the Superbowl sucks!!!!
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You think a "great" QB would have resulted in Curtis catching that ball on 4th and 10? McNabb played a very good game. Well enough to win. He put the ball on the money on 4th and 10. Curtis was basically tackled and he didn't make the catch, despite getting two hands on the ball. Fitzgerald would have made that catch. Kevin Curtis, who is a WR3 at best, did not. That has nothing to do with McNabb.
The guy had Curtis, Jackson, and Celek as his WRs and TE. Pitiful. Westbrook had 12 carries for 45 yards. Despite that, McNabb was 28 for 47 for 375 yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT, and had 2 carries for 31 yards. Completed passes to 9 different receivers. Couldn't ask for much more.
I heard someone say that McNabb has had exactly 1 thousand yard WR in his career (T.O.). That's just shameful. He overachieved again despite being surrounded by pretty average talent.
If he winds up in Tampa they'll be a better team and the Eagles probably don't make the playoffs. Kevin Kolb is no McNabb.
Classic denial. You just know that if it takes 4 paragraphs and endless excuses, there's a smokescreen going up.
The truth is the QB is most responsible for wins and loses, which is why he has a 113 million dollar contract, commercials, acolades, etc. The trend is very clear...
When someone asked if this team's late surge meant it was building toward a bright future, McNabb's eyes widened in disbelief.
"I guess I've been building for 10 years," McNabb said, in a tone that made it sound like a very long time.
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I agree with this assessment. You really can't fault McNabb too much on this loss. the defense gave up 30+. Not going to win too many games like that no matter who you have behind the center.
Actually the defense isn't at fault as much as some think, they simply couldn't cover the best receiver and a good QB, which would happen against most defenses in the league including the good ones.
This is a classic McNabb deflection, which is exactly the kind of enabling mentality that keeps him there. Bottom line he didn't come thru at the end...AGAIN. He's getting 113 million because the QB is a focal point of a team and is usually the single most responsible individual on the team for wins and loses despite the team game rhetoric.
McNabb's extremely lucky that he's got an enabler coach who still calls him the best QB in the league. About the ONLY time he hasn't been pampered by the coach was during that benching, which effectively lit a fire under his complacent ass-for a while-streak players like McNabb eventually peter out, as happened yesterday. They got rid of the wrong QB last year.
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He must not have eaten his Campbell's Chunky Soup. He's an inconsistent player at best and proved it by not going to the Super Bowl.
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He must not have eaten his Campbell's Chunky Soup. He's an inconsistent player at best and proved it by not going to the Super Bowl.
Agreed. McNabb is not a winner. He has skill and he can make you go wow, but he is not a winner. Brady never had a 1000 yard wr until 2007 and he led the pats to 3 sb's with wr's no one ever heard off. McNabb is not on Brady or Mannings level. He is not great....he is very good.
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McNabb had good receivers this year, including Westbrook who doubles as a receiver but he couldn't put it together. He threw many bad passes and a few that the guys dropped but most of it was his bad play. His WR were the ones who got open (wide open) on the TD plays, not McNabb. I'd say McNabb might be holding his receivers back....hmmmm.....
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McNabb had good receivers this year, including Westbrook who doubles as a receiver but he couldn't put it together. He threw many bad passes and a few that the guys dropped but most of it was his bad play. His WR were the ones who got open (wide open) on the TD plays, not McNabb. I'd say McNabb might be holding his receivers back....hmmmm.....
This is true. Jackson is very good, Westbrooke is a gamechanger and Curtis is no different than say a Jabar Gaffney in NE or a Crayton in Dallas. McNabb is simply not great....he is good.
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He is not great....he is very good.
The problem is, McNabb's a teaser, just good enough for some to believe he'll take if over the top "one of these years". It's a curse actually.
Garcia showed what the Eagles could be with a better QB.
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Donovan McNabb likely staying put in Philadelphia
Strong finish to regular season, solid playoff will keep McNabb in Philly
Dan Pompei | On the NFL
5:06 PM CST, January 24, 2009
To hear them explain it in Philadelphia, Donovan McNabb is to blame for everything from the Eagles' failure to win a Super Bowl to the crack in the Liberty Bell.
Coach Andy Reid knows better, so expect McNabb to be wearing wings on his helmet when the Eagles open the 2009 season.
Whether the Chicago native gets the contract extension he desires is another matter. The Eagles probably would be wise to wait another year before making that call, as McNabb already is signed through the 2010 season.
I wouldn't go so far as to say the Eagles should make a commitment to McNabb now that would make him their starting quarterback when he will be pushing 35. But at 32, he is a fine player.
He has been for a number of years, and he reached a personal best in passing yards this season. His passer rating (86.4) was the fourth best of his career. His completion percentage (60.4) was third best. His number of touchdown passes (23) was third best.
Of more importance, he resurrected the Eagles' season by helping the team win four of its last five games when he came back after being benched. He also led Philadelphia to two road victories in the playoffs before the Eagles lost to the Cardinals in the NFC championship game.
During that eight-game stretch—the most critical eight games of the season—McNabb had a 92.2 passer rating, completed 62.7 percent of his throws and threw 14 touchdown passes to five interceptions.
Some Philadelphians claimed he choked in the NFC title game, when in fact he was the reason the Eagles almost won it rather than the reason they lost it. He threw for 375 yards and led two third-quarter touchdown drives that helped the Eagles overcome an 18-point deficit. It wasn't McNabb's fault the Eagles' defense let the Cardinals score again.
What Eagles fans need to ask themselves is how could the team possibly improve without McNabb? Maybe they could put all their chips on a Matt Cassel trade, but there is no guarantee Cassel will be the quarterback he was in New England.
The only quarterbacks in the league who clearly were better than McNabb this season were Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Kurt Warner, Philip Rivers and Chad Pennington.
There is a group of maybe eight quarterbacks who were about as effective as McNabb. We could debate if McNabb was better or worse than each, but the truth is there wasn't a lot separating him from Cassel, Jay Cutler of the Broncos, Aaron Rodgers of the Packers, Tony Romo of the Cowboys, Matt Ryan of the Falcons, Matt Schaub of the Texans, Jeff Garcia of the Bucs and Eli Manning of the Giants.
So what we have established is McNabb was among the top 14 quarterbacks in football this season, perhaps among the top 10. Maybe the Eagles believe Kevin Kolb eventually could be a premier quarterback, and maybe he can. But McNabb is an Eagle in the hand; Kolb is an Eagle in the bush.
The Eagles would be served best looking for better players to surround the very good quarterback they have rather than looking for another.
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-0901234donovan-mcnabb-chicago-bears,0,645308.column