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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: 240 is Back on January 30, 2009, 06:54:38 AM
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How many sets to you train to absolute failure each day in the gym?
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absolute faillure means that you need at least 2 or more spotters until you canīt controll the negative part of the last rep......
i train in each exercise only the last, (sometimes the last 2 sets) to/or close to positive Faillure.....
So, my Training session is about 10 Sets warm-up + 6-8 "hard sets" whith which i hope to stimulate the Body to build more muscle or to get stronger (depends in which rep-range i will be training)
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How many sets to you train to absolute failure each day in the gym?
Probably none. Positive failure, 1-2 per exercise, maybe.
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Never, I am not a failure.
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How many sets to you train to absolute failure each day in the gym?
In the gym i train the equipment till failure. Not the other way around.
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How many sets to you train to absolute failure each day in the gym?
As many as I feel are necessary. What about you, 240?
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101.5
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As many as I feel are necessary. What about you, 240?
usually the last set of each exercise.
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On average, I feel wore out after I break into 20-24
set range(total workout).
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I never ever train to failure
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I never ever train to failure
Average total working sets per session?
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varies a great deal from workout to workout and bodypart etc
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Ok.
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i train til i cant lift the pink dumbbells anymore. :o
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Never. :)
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How many sets to you train to absolute failure each day in the gym?
I like to take it a step further and actually fail to make it to the gym.
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I train to positive failure quite often, normally the last set of a given exercise. With an occasional drop set thrown in.
As far as that psychotic training to the point where you can't even move.....never.
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Training to failure is never an option for me. Usually stop 1 or 2 reps before.
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Seeing as I usually train on my own I suppose I go to failure on all my main working sets and dropsets. I'm sure I could usually get a few extra reps if I had a spotter on hand at all times. Which I don't.
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How many sets to you train to absolute failure each day in the gym?
Except few warm up sets,Every sets to the maximum failure as if its the last sets.
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240, listen /lift to this molly hatchet track in your room after a cup of whole milk !
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I don't get all technical when I train. I train hard and I don't worry about negatives and all that other garbage. Sometimes I think people spend way to much time on all these "techniques", and they don't just train until they are tired.
Typical day for me (back+bi)
Back
Pullups 5x10
Bent over rows 5x10
Good mornings 5x10
Machine pulldowns 5x10
Seated Row 5x10
Bi
Preacher curl 5x12
Dumbell curl (standing)5x10
Hammer Curl 5x12
Cardio
10 min on stairs
This usually takes me 1 hour and 10 min to complete
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I'll usually do a pre-exhaust routine. I'll do the isolation exercise to just about failure then do a rest-pause with it. The compound exercise usually involves either negatives, partials or forced reps after failure depending on which week it is. I am an advocate of failure training, HOWEVER I believe that a quarter of the time you should train to just before failure as it does take it's toll on the body.
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I'll usually do a pre-exhaust routine. I'll do the isolation exercise to just about failure then do a rest-pause with it. The compound exercise usually involves either negatives, partials or forced reps after failure depending on which week it is. I am an advocate of failure training, HOWEVER I believe that a quarter of the time you should train to just before failure as it does take it's toll on the body.
Same here.
Take Legs for example. I do my extensions and hamstring curls before i hit the leg press. I usually get all my target reps, the last one or two I kind of reset myself, say "let's go motherfu66er, these are the ones that count." in my brain, and power them out. Occasionally I do drop sets but it's not a regular thing.
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Same here.
Take Legs for example. I do my extensions and hamstring curls before i hit the leg press. I usually get all my target reps, the last one or two I kind of reset myself, say "let's go motherfu66er, these are the ones that count." in my brain, and power them out. Occasionally I do drop sets but it's not a regular thing.
Yup. I think that drop sets are not really necessary nor beneficial. I mean the way I think about it is like this. Let's say you leg press 600 pounds for 15 reps to positive failure and you stimulate the use of say 90 percent of the muscle fibers in your legs by the final rep, stripping down the weight in incriments so that you're using say 80 then 50 then 30 then 10 percent of the muscle fibers will only lead to additional stimulation which had already been fulfilled by the use of the set that entailed the 90 percent rep. I know people flame Mentzer, but like he said; it really is like turning a light switch on and off again.
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I usually do 4 sets of 10 reps. The last set is usually to failure. By that I am mean Failure with perfect form, not absolute, total muscle failure.
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I never train to failure
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I like to take it a step further and actually fail to make it to the gym.
;D!!!
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That's not George Lucas.....
(http://i44.tinypic.com/16bzr43.jpg)
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That's not George Lucas.....
(http://i44.tinypic.com/16bzr43.jpg)
Haha, that's Rolf Harris. UK getbiggers will know who it is.
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Even exercise I can safety do without a spotter.
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0
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Haha, that's Rolf Harris. UK getbiggers will know who it is.
Animal Hospital Legend. lol
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Animal Hospital Legend. lol
Rolf Harris's Cartoon Time Legend. 8)
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Rolf Harris's Cartoon Time Legend. 8)
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i only do 2 sets for each bodypart. both are to failure. after 2-3 warmup sets..1 low rep,1 high rep.. as long as my reps and/or weight improves from the previous workout, that is all my body needs to grow.. which is at a faster rate then when i used to waste time and energy doing set after set of volume style training..
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Maybe one set to positive failure per exercise, probably less. Lately focusing more on getting a really good contraction rather than reaching failure.
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Maybe one set to positive failure per exercise, probably less. Lately focusing more on getting a really good contraction rather than reaching failure.
I think you should do a minimum of one set to failure, it's fundamental to forcing the muscle to adapt by growing; i don't see how contracting a muscle by itself will make it bigger though it can be good for refinement.
i only do 2 sets for each bodypart. both are to failure. after 2-3 warmup sets..1 low rep,1 high rep.. as long as my reps and/or weight improves from the previous workout, that is all my body needs to grow.. which is at a faster rate then when i used to waste time and energy doing set after set of volume style training..
I do same, after years of high volume. If you challenge the muscle and fatigue it quickly, more sets are both pointless and focus on endurance. The way it works, if you're going to failure: 1st set is the most productive, the 2nd set adds more benefit but less than the 1st. You can then elect to add a 3rd set, the benefit of which is debatable-arguably it adds slightly more benefit though far less than the first 2 sets-the benefit of a 3rd set depends on the intensity of the first 2. If the intensity's high the first 2 you're not getting much more from the 3rd.
The only justification for doing more sets for an exercise is if you're not really working that hard on each set.
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Hopefully most of us understand the difference between positive, negative and complete failure. Each affects the CNS (and results or lack of) in different ways.
Personal view: Only exception to reach any stage of failure would be when using one set of all out reps on a compound exercise. And that being usually once, at the most twice, a week. The squat, bench, DL's, etc for example. Good Luck.
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There's no reason to differentiate compounds from other exercises in terms of either failure training or effectiveness, it's an arbitrary supposition. One of those fallacies that assumes a life of it's own through the years with no verifiable basis in fact. The guillible don't question it. Plenty of pros who got great results training to failure and using highly effective exercises that wouldn't fall under this rule.
As far as definitions of failure, obviously the default that is most widely known is positive failure.
Frequency of taking it to failure: the body can take alot more than some of the current vogues in training suggest. Recovery really doesn't take that long, that's just one theory. ;)
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I do same, after years of high volume. If you challenge the muscle and fatigue it quickly, more sets are both pointless and focus on endurance. The way it works, if you're going to failure: 1st set is the most productive, the 2nd set adds more benefit but less than the 1st. You can then elect to add a 3rd set, the benefit of which is debatable-arguably it adds slightly more benefit though far less than the first 2 sets-the benefit of a 3rd set depends on the intensity of the first 2. If the intensity's high the first 2 you're not getting much more from the 3rd.
The only justification for doing more sets for an exercise is if you're not really working that hard on each set.
ive added a 20+ rep set to my weak bodyparts -chest and quads... when i do them i move to a different exersize.. ex: 2 sets of squats, 1 20 rep set of leg press..
so far this has improved these bodyparts..
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I think you should do a minimum of one set to failure, it's fundamental to forcing the muscle to adapt by growing; i don't see how contracting a muscle by itself will make it bigger though it can be good for refinement.
I think I'm getting enough sets to failure, I might have underestimated before.
I'll give you an example of my biceps workout.
For my heavy exercise (cheat curls or hammer curls) I do about 2-3 warm up sets, then take 1-2 sets to failure.
Then standing dumbbell curls I do about 4 sets between 8-15 reps, stopping 1 or 2 reps before failure. So something like 14, 12, 10, 8. Then take my last set of db curls to failure at about 10 reps.
My last exercise is concentration curls and I do 2 sets/arm, neither to failure. I stop my set when I don't get a perfect contraction at the top. I'm dieting atm, so I'm not looking to put on much mass (though I don't think it's impossible), just refinement like you said.
Last year I was taking pretty much every set to failure except my first, but I'm liking the way its going atm.
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Ya that's good, failure part of the time. Sets that don't go to failure are just warmups or pumping sets IMO, they're not the meat of it. Going to failure on every set only makes sense if doing very few overall sets per muscle, then it makes sense every set. Ya, dieting would also change the equation.
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i perform an exercise until i cant lift the weight anymore. i usually have a spotter to give me 2 or so forced reps. i typically do this every set. i do drop sets, and compound sets every now and then, along with some other high intensity techniques, but usually i stick to lifting a particular weight until i cannot anymore.
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I usually go to failure on the last set of my compound movements. I then go slightly higher with the reps for some isolation work, never going to failure.
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I usually go to failure on the last set of my compound movements. I then go slightly higher with the reps for some isolation work, never going to failure.
No viable reason to limit hard work to only certain types of exercises; try working harder on isolation work.
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I am sure most experience lifters know that not going to failure, every set, never means the any one is not working extremely hard on a exercise. And in return reap the benefits of more muscle size and strength.
Watching the video's of some of the Pro's, and other top BB'ers, it becomes quite clear that there are at least 1 or 2 more rep that could be preformed if true failure was their goal. Watching them workout in person, if becomes even clearer They might push the failure button on the last rep, of the last set, for a given body area at certain times, but most likely not. And some Pro's may just do it for the video audience, not in real time workouts. After all, BB'ing is just another form of show business.
General rule for success for the top guy's are middle range fast reps and cheating. Add to that, shorter workouts per body part for some. Good Luck.
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No viable reason to limit hard work to only certain types of exercises; try working harder on isolation work.
Your training info is always solid, pumpster.
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You're training info is always solid, pumpster.
Thanks man, i appreciate it. That observation was made both from my own experience and from reading workouts of some of the top guys over the years. Guys who got closer to realizing full potential didn't leave any stone unturned in the pursuit of greatness. There's no need to limit yourself with excessive, arbitrary rules that haven't been proven to hold water.
it becomes quite clear that there are at least 1 or 2 more rep that could be preformed if true failure was their goal. Watching them workout in person, if becomes even clearer They might push the failure button on the last rep, of the last set, for a given body area at certain times, but most likely not.
That some guys train short of failure in videos doesn't necessarily tell us anything. (1) It doesn't tell us that they always trained that way earlier in their careers when getting to that size, (2) it doesn't tell us that they reached their full potential, because they likely didn't if they never pushed themselves (see Sergio Oliva's comments on getting in to his best all-time shape in the early 70s, only because he was pushed beyond his limits by Arthur Jones, then compare that with guys known to squander potential with pussy workouts, like Dillet and Wheeler-ya they looked great but everyone knows they'd have looked even better by pushing the envelope ), (3) someone like Schwarzenegger clearly says in Pumping that the body has to be brought into new territory "that it's not used to, the 6th, 7th reps"-he's talking about going beyond what can already be done and as he practiced in calf training in finally gaining great calves later, (4) clearly there were guys who included training to failure and beyond who benefitted from it and practiced it-i have no doubt whatsoever that they reached farther into their full potential and beyond. The only way to have addressed that is to challenge oneself, exactly what guys known to have failed to do this neglected, like Wheeler, Levrone and Dillet. You're not doing everything possible to realize true greatness by taking it easy!
Very much common sense to some BBs-full muscular development doesn't happen without inordinate stress on the muscle, which forces adaptation! Very simple!
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No viable reason to limit hard work to only certain types of exercises; try working harder on isolation work.
I've never really said to myself, this is an isolation movement so don't go to failure, it's just that's the way I'm doing it at the moment. An example would be chest day, I go to failure on my last sets of inclines, db presses, and dips. Then I go to 12-15 reps on flyes to get a load of blood into the muscle. Every now and then I'll do a drop set instead. It kinda depends on how I feel.
I probably should have been clearer in my first post. :D
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I've never really said to myself, this is an isolation movement so don't go to failure, it's just that's the way I'm doing it at the moment. An example would be chest day, I go to failure on my last sets of inclines, db presses, and dips. Then I go to 12-15 reps on flyes to get a load of blood into the muscle. Every now and then I'll do a drop set instead. It kinda depends on how I feel.
I probably should have been clearer in my first post. :D
That makes sense, but i suggest that you sometimes go to failure on any good exercise, either by changing the order, for example flyes first, or keeping them at the end but going to failure there instead of or in addition to the earlier exercises.
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That makes sense, but i suggest that you sometimes go to failure on any good exercise, either by changing the order, for example flyes first, or keeping them at the end but going to failure there instead of or in addition to the earlier exercises.
I'll bear it in mind next time I'm changing things round. I sit down every couple of months and make a new workout schedule. I always try to include things I've never tried before.
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One of the draw backs of going to failure in every workout, besides limiting muscle recovery time (CNS), is much more stress on the joints themselves. One of the reasons that PL'ers approach the point of failure only a few times a month. The point is to check their progress only. Funny thing is is that Pumpster is always so concerned with the stress and danger on the joints. Yet he encourages going to failure.
If Pumpster can provide the envelope that Dillet and Wheeler did not push, I wish he would send it out to everyone. Seeing as how Dillon and Wheeler only did "pussy" waste of time workouts and were not that much concerned with hitting failure. Seems Pumpster knows best and could have made those two guys even greater. Interesting to see if Pumpster could go through a complete workout doing their "pussy" stuff. Or match a pair of 20"-21" guns.
Arnold and Oliva (worked 1 or 2 sets at the most when with Jones, a short period,..going to failure was the point but just for those 1 or 2 sets) are always Pumpsters main examples. All time greats, to be sure, but that was 40 years ago. Some new slants on serious training have developed since than to help BB'ers to reach their own potential. Can combine some of the old training ideas with the current stuff of course .Pumpster may want to step outside the box and broaden his thinking towards modern BB'ing. Or have a more open mind when it comes to training and advancement. Good Luck.
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One of the draw backs of going to failure in every workout, besides limiting muscle recovery time (CNS), is much more stress on the joints themselves. One of the reasons that PL'ers approach the point of failure only a few times a month. The point is to check their progress only. Funny thing is is that Pumpster is always so concerned with the stress and danger on the joints. Yet he encourages going to failure.
Jpm's assumption as almost always the case, is flawed. The stress on the joints has nothing to do with failure if the diet's good and drugs are not exerting excessive loads while using heavy weight and low reps that are too hard on the system. The cause is repetitive chronic stress from rep one onwards. It's just like repetitive stress from typing on a computer keyboard, again having nothing to do with going to failure and everything to do with repetition. I'd also add that using excessively heavy weight also factors in, nothing to do with failure once again.
If Pumpster can provide the envelope that Dillet and Wheeler did not push, I wish he would send it out to everyone. Seeing as how Dillon and Wheeler only did "pussy" waste of time workouts and were not that much concerned with hitting failure. Seems Pumpster knows best and could have made those two guys even greater. Interesting to see if Pumpster could go through a complete workout doing their "pussy" stuff. Or match a pair of 20"-21" guns.
Jpm striking out once again. Dillet's lack of work ethic and unrealized potential is very well known, so much so that Arnold said that if he could train Dillet properly for a time he'd have been the greatest physique ever.
Arnold and Oliva (worked 1 or 2 sets at the most when with Jones, a short period,..going to failure was the point but just for those 1 or 2 sets) are always Pumpsters main examples. All time greats, to be sure, but that was 40 years ago.
40 years ago's irrelevant actually because the example i used in terms of Oliva's biggest improvements was actually using methods that are currently in vogue now in "modern BB" LOL he was already using the "new slants" referred to. :D
Priceless logic on display from the old timer "jpm". ;)