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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Positive Bodybuilding Discussion & Talk => Topic started by: Alex23 on February 16, 2009, 07:11:55 PM



Title: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Alex23 on February 16, 2009, 07:11:55 PM
... as you started thining down? Did you see any improvements in utilization and responsiveness?

Discuss.


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: tbombz on February 16, 2009, 07:25:02 PM

im not flex

but


if you wanna know about lean dudes vs. fat dudes on carb intake


keep your fat intake minimal and your protein intake high and as long as your training hard you wont get fat even if your eating TONS of carbs.



Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Alex23 on February 16, 2009, 10:25:08 PM
Well it's obvious that the fatter the more resistant your are to insulin.

Now how lean do you have to get to become "visibly" more sensitive? Is Keto shit the best approach for a fatter beast to reach leanerness?


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: tbombz on February 16, 2009, 10:30:42 PM
Well it's obvious that the fatter the more resistant your are to insulin.

Now how lean do you have to get to become "visibly" more sensitive? Is Keto shit the best approach for a fatter beast to reach leanerness?


define insulin resistance

but you can have insulin resistant fat cels and insulin sensitive muscle cells. and vice versa.

insulin resistance in cells is dicated by how "full" they are of whatever they carry.

one weight trainign session depleting a fat dudes glycogen immidetly sensitizes his muscle cells to insulin.

one meal which causes fat cells to become filled in a skinny dude will immidietly cause his fat cells to become insulin resistant.





Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Bobby on February 17, 2009, 04:35:18 AM
im not flex

but


if you wanna know about lean dudes vs. fat dudes on carb intake


keep your fat intake minimal and your protein intake high and as long as your training hard you wont get fat even if your eating TONS of carbs.



define minimal


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: wes on February 17, 2009, 06:32:18 AM
im not flex

but


if you wanna know about lean dudes vs. fat dudes on carb intake


keep your fat intake minimal and your protein intake high and as long as your training hard you wont get fat even if your eating TONS of carbs.


Totally wrong son!!


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: benz on February 17, 2009, 06:48:51 AM
Totally wrong son!!

wes keeping it real!


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Alex23 on February 17, 2009, 10:37:34 AM
I'm totally confused now... I read Chris Aceto's book some month back and he mentioned 10-12% bf is the optimal range for insulin sensitivity; the fatter you are the more resistant you get, hence fatoses with type II. too lean, the body is fighting to stay in homeostatsis and overreacts to insulin...

I'm no poindexter how focuses on science shit yet has no physique nor am I a juicer / insuliner, I was just asking flaxington when did he start noticing a change in his body's response but I think he is pounting... ;D


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: brent2741 on February 17, 2009, 10:59:10 AM
Totally wrong son!!

true dat


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: chris-a on February 17, 2009, 01:52:36 PM
I'm totally confused now... I read Chris Aceto's book some month back and he mentioned 10-12% bf is the optimal range for insulin sensitivity; the fatter you are the more resistant you get, hence fatoses with type II. too lean, the body is fighting to stay in homeostatsis and overreacts to insulin...

I'm no poindexter how focuses on science shit yet has no physique nor am I a juicer / insuliner, I was just asking flaxington when did he start noticing a change in his body's response but I think he is pounting... ;D

in english?


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: tbombz on February 17, 2009, 09:00:56 PM
Totally wrong son!!
and why is that ?


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Alex23 on February 17, 2009, 09:17:18 PM
in english?

That's the best I can do with my limited skills...


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Big Mark C on February 17, 2009, 09:18:45 PM
That's the best I can do with my limited skills...

dont listen to the haterz king23    they are jealous of your sucess


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Nasty Nate on February 17, 2009, 09:22:35 PM
im not flex

but


if you wanna know about lean dudes vs. fat dudes on carb intake


keep your fat intake minimal and your protein intake high and as long as your training hard you wont get fat even if your eating TONS of carbs.



I'll tend to agree with this.


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Alex23 on February 17, 2009, 09:28:35 PM
I'll tend to agree with this.
 

Majeeb-Durkah, what's your take on separating oil/fats and starchy carbs in different meals? Many say the combination throws your pancreas out and tends to mess up digestion and enzymes to the point of promoting fat storage. Suddently spags and meatballs isn't as attrractive... but a hot pinky ravioli still is, for different purposes.


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Nasty Nate on February 17, 2009, 09:35:56 PM
 

Majeeb-Durkah, what's your take on separating oil/fats and starchy carbs in different meals? Many say the combination throws your pancreas out and tends to mess up digestion and enzymes to the point of promoting fat storage. Suddently spags and meatballs isn't as attrractive... but a hot pinky ravioli still is, for different purposes.

Not sure if i'd agree with fat storage from that, I guess it would depend on the individual and just how many starchy carbs the person was taking in. But it would probably be more a maintenance of bodyfat %, while gaining lean mass. For leaning out, I think keto is the best in every way, but for bulking doing something like what tbombz suggested would work nicely. What kind've diet are you on now, Alex?



Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: tbombz on February 17, 2009, 09:36:43 PM
define minimal
hey boddy

well... for example if you wanted to eat clean with high carbs minimal fat, many bodybuilder eat somethink like brown rice with lea steak. both brown rice and lean steak contain some fats. when keeping fat intake minimal, one wouldnt mind with these 'trace fats',,,, but would not add in any extra fat at all other than whats found in their proteins and carbs.


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Alex23 on February 17, 2009, 09:44:30 PM
Not sure if i'd agree with fat storage from that, I guess it would depend on the individual and just how many starchy carbs the person was taking in. But it would probably be more a maintenance of bodyfat %, while gaining lean mass. For leaning out, I think keto is the best in every way, but for bulking doing something like what tbombz suggested would work nicely. What kind've diet are you on now, Alex?

I figured.

These days I probably take in 300g-400g of carbs or so, mainly in the morning pre and post training. I rarely eat any starchy food after 6PM. I take in about 3000 calories. I train 6 days a week for the first time in my life but I'm extremely strong for my size. I'm down to about 240-245 from 250+, quite round still but have no interest in being stringy and deflated, hence the higher carbs. My goal is 230 range with decent proportions... Check my vids...


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Nasty Nate on February 17, 2009, 09:48:13 PM
I figured.

These days I probably take in 300g-400g of carbs or so, mainly in the morning pre and post training. I rarely eat any starchy food after 6PM. I take in about 3000 calories. I train 6 days a week for the first time in my life but I'm extremely strong for my size. I'm down to about 240-245 from 250+, quite round still but have no interest in being stringy and deflated, hence the higher carbs. My goal is 230 range with decent proportions... Check my vids...

Yeah that sounds pretty solid, probably staying really full with those carbs. The only thing I hate about the keto diet is how flat it makes you. No carbs means you hold no water which means alot of weight drop at the start... kind've a blow to the ego i guess but it doesn't matter too much.

I do know one guy that does something like what you mentioned though... he can't handle eating the amount of carbs needed to get all his calories in, so he has protein/fat only meals for half of his meals(seeing as you can get the calories in easily with fats), and usually high carbs in the morning and pre/post workout. It seems to work well for him in terms of gains and maintenance of bf levels.


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Alex23 on February 17, 2009, 09:58:04 PM
Yeah that sounds pretty solid, probably staying really full with those carbs. The only thing I hate about the keto diet is how flat it makes you. No carbs means you hold no water which means alot of weight drop at the start... kind've a blow to the ego i guess but it doesn't matter too much.

I do know one guy that does something like what you mentioned though... he can't handle eating the amount of carbs needed to get all his calories in, so he has protein/fat only meals for half of his meals(seeing as you can get the calories in easily with fats), and usually high carbs in the morning and pre/post workout. It seems to work well for him in terms of gains and maintenance of bf levels.

Excellent, that's what I'm looking for. I've actually seen some "depuffing" following that "regiment" but still get that "fullness" feeling... usually day 5-6-7 start cutting down the carbs, then on day 1 start upping it again until day 3 (legs), my routine kidna looks like this:

monday: chest - triceps - abs, 300-400g carbs
tuesday: back tickness - biceps - abs, 400-500g carbs
wednesday: legs - 500g carbs
Thursday: triceps - light chest - 200g carbs
friday: biceps - back width - 200g carbs
saturday: shoulder - light quads - 200g
sunday: off 0-100g carbs

Where calories intake is pretty much constant to 3000 only macronutrients are shuffled....


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Nasty Nate on February 17, 2009, 10:12:17 PM
Looks like you've got everything figured out pretty well. I'd stick with that for awhile, you should do really well with it.


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Has Beens on February 20, 2009, 05:32:52 PM
im not flex

but


if you wanna know about lean dudes vs. fat dudes on carb intake


keep your fat intake minimal and your protein intake high and as long as your training hard you wont get fat even if your eating TONS of carbs.



I do the complete opposite to get lean. Although I keep my protien in the 220-250 range, I keep my fats fairly high (red meat, nuts, ect.) and my carbs on the lower end (180-250). I keep a very strict, boring diet and do no cardio until 6 weeks out. I am down 19 lbs in 4 weeks with 11 to go.


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Alex23 on February 20, 2009, 06:38:32 PM
I do the complete opposite to get lean. Although I keep my protien in the 220-250 range, I keep my fats fairly high (red meat, nuts, ect.) and my carbs on the lower end (180-250). I keep a very strict, boring diet and do no cardio until 6 weeks out. I am down 19 lbs in 4 weeks with 11 to go.


Has Beens, now here's a guy I would listen to once I firmly decide to do that bodybuilding thing.... would you take a noob under your wing big guy?


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Has Beens on February 20, 2009, 07:50:45 PM


Has Beens, now here's a guy I would listen to once I firmly decide to do that bodybuilding thing.... would you take a noob under your wing big guy?

LOL....nothing big about me, I am about to wither away !..I will be glad to help any way I can.


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Bobby on February 21, 2009, 03:48:29 AM
I do the complete opposite to get lean. Although I keep my protien in the 220-250 range, I keep my fats fairly high (red meat, nuts, ect.) and my carbs on the lower end (180-250). I keep a very strict, boring diet and do no cardio until 6 weeks out. I am down 19 lbs in 4 weeks with 11 to go.

Approximately how much fat do you eat? what kind of fat sources do you go for?
Your carb/protein ratios are very similar to mine, but fat i am only having one lean red meat meal a day + 2 whole eggs. might not be good enough.


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Has Beens on February 21, 2009, 11:12:42 AM
I don`t measure my fats, I go by the mirror and how far out from a show I am. I love red meat and can get away with eating it 2-3 times a week (4 times a day). I eat cashews all day long as a snack. I drink 2% milk everyday and eat a fair amount of salmon. When I feel I am coming down too fast I just up the red meat.


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Alex23 on February 21, 2009, 12:38:06 PM
I don`t measure my fats, I go by the mirror and how far out from a show I am. I love red meat and can get away with eating it 2-3 times a week (4 times a day). I eat cashews all day long as a snack. I drink 2% milk everyday and eat a fair amount of salmon. When I feel I am coming down too fast I just up the red meat.

I'm amazed that you drink milk... most people say it makes their skin thicker, I don't see the problem offseason or when one enjoys himself and just lifts for fun but pre-contest...

I also hope you don't drink milk and eat salmon at the same time.


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Bobby on February 21, 2009, 02:52:43 PM
I don`t measure my fats, I go by the mirror and how far out from a show I am. I love red meat and can get away with eating it 2-3 times a week (4 times a day). I eat cashews all day long as a snack. I drink 2% milk everyday and eat a fair amount of salmon. When I feel I am coming down too fast I just up the red meat.

Interesting! it seems calories could go overboard easily if you're snacking all day, but you seem to know what you're doing so i guess i am nitpicking too much...

I found a box of nuts that's low carb 3g per 100g and lots of healthy fats...snacking on it right now 8)


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Has Beens on February 21, 2009, 05:02:24 PM
I'm amazed that you drink milk... most people say it makes their skin thicker, I don't see the problem offseason or when one enjoys himself and just lifts for fun but pre-contest...

I also hope you don't drink milk and eat salmon at the same time.

I am still 11 weeks out so a glass or two of milk a day works for me. We all react different and being a "hard gainer" works to my benefit when dieting. My 7 regular meals are actually very strict, very measured, and I don`t deviate from it throughout the day so I can get away with a bit here and there.


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Has Beens on February 21, 2009, 05:05:16 PM
Interesting! it seems calories could go overboard easily if you're snacking all day, but you seem to know what you're doing so i guess i am nitpicking too much...

I found a box of nuts that's low carb 3g per 100g and lots of healthy fats...snacking on it right now 8)

I think I was a bit misleading about "snacking all day". I have a small hand full after or between meals...kills that urge to cheat.


Title: Re: FlaxseedOilShteel, what's your take on insulin sensitivity...
Post by: Bobby on February 22, 2009, 08:34:30 AM
I think I was a bit misleading about "snacking all day". I have a small hand full after or between meals...kills that urge to cheat.

got it! small hand... i wasn't eating the whole pack though, so no harm  8)