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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Sports Discussion Boards => Topic started by: Dos Equis on March 01, 2009, 07:45:34 PM
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I don't get this one. Denver has needs, but not at QB. This was dumb.
Cutler thinks he is still on trading block
By Chris Mortensen
ESPN.com
Yes, the Denver Broncos want Jay Cutler to return for a little sit down to mend fences after the team's reported failed attempt to trade for New England quarterback Matt Cassel. Cutler won't have any of it after the two sides spoke by telephone Sunday.
"They want me to come in and talk to 'em but I'm not doing it right now; I'm going to lay low," said Cutler. "The [Broncos] deny everything. That's a problem. We know for a fact they tried to trade me."
The Broncos have denied reports of their trade talks with the Patriots, Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Detroit Lions. They have characterized any dialogue as "inquiries" not initiated by the team, even though multiple sources have confirmed the Broncos' interest in Cassel, who was dealt Saturday by the Patriots to the Chiefs.
"He's not the only person in the last few days we've received calls on," new Broncos coach Josh McDaniels told the Denver Post. "We've received trade calls on a number of players, which is not uncommon this time of the year. I also think the sensitivity of the other trade that was occurring, with my relationship with New England and the whole Cassel thing, I think that stirred the pot even more."
McDaniels was the Patriots' offensive coordinator last season when he helped guide Cassel, a career backup since high school, to an 11-5 record following Tom Brady's season-ending knee injury on opening weekend.
Cutler, the 11th overall pick out of Vanderbilt in the 2006 draft, told The Denver Post he was angry that his name even came up in trade talks and said he still feels he's on the trading block -- something McDaniels denies.
"We don't want to trade Jay," McDaniels said. "We never did. He's our quarterback. We're excited about this season. And excited about what we're doing here in free agency to improve our team."
Sources say that the Bucs offered first- and fourth-round picks to the Broncos for Cutler, and that the Lions offered their second-round pick (No. 33) and possibly a future pick. The deal would have involved the Broncos getting Cassel from the Patriots.
Cutler was scheduled to return to Denver this week to continue learning the team's new playbook under McDaniels. A source close to Cutler said that the quarterback is "too stung" by the trade talks and has refused to speak with McDaniels by phone, let alone travel from his Tennessee home back to Denver.
"I'm upset. I mean, I'm really shocked at this point," Cutler told The Post. "I could see why they want Cassel. I don't know if they think I can't run the system or I don't have the skills for it. Or if they don't think they can sign me with my next contract. I just don't know what it is. I've heard I'm still on the trading block."
AFC West blog
ESPN.com's Bill Williamson writes about all things AFC West in his division blog.
• Blog network: NFL Nation
Team officials were in contact with his agent, Bus Cook, on Saturday and Sunday to deny their involvement and reinforce their commitment to Cutler. Cook said Cutler has every right to be upset.
"Because that's a vote of no confidence in the guy," Cook told The Associated Press on Sunday. "I don't care if you're talking about trading him for Matt Cassel, Matt Ryan or Tom Brady. That's a vote of no confidence in him, and that's how Jay sees it and I would, too.
"I don't know if they were actively seeking to trade Jay, but on the other hand, I don't know that they were turning a deaf ear to potential offers, either."
It was during their call Sunday with Cook that the Broncos tried to schedule a meeting that the quarterback isn't interested in, at the moment.
A Broncos spokesman told The AP on Sunday that neither McDaniels, newly promoted general manager Brian Xanders nor team owner Pat Bowlen would have anything else to say publicly about the matter.
The organization felt it had adequately addressed the issue by talking to The Post and didn't want to perpetuate the story, team spokesman Patrick Smyth said.
Cutler, who has three years left on his six-year deal he signed as a rookie, is by far the best player McDaniels inherited from Mike Shanahan, who had built a terrific young offense around the quarterback even while neglecting a defense that more than anything probably led to his firing.
Cutler told The Post he feels his relationship with McDaniels has "taken a few steps backward."
"I don't know if the relationship is irreconcilably broken," Cook said. "But I know that as much as he's meant to the organization and that ballclub, if there were attempts to trade him, then I think Jay Cutler is 100 percent right to be more than just a little bit miffed."
Cutler is 17-20 with no playoff appearances since supplanting Jake Plummer late in the 2006 season, and he's known for his petulant, moody personality in his dealings with teammates and the media alike.
"There's an awful lot of smoke for there not to be a fire," Cook said. "If they were in fact trying to trade Jay Cutler, then I think that's a situation that's going to cause a very serious problem for the organization.
"If they weren't, maybe he forgives and forgets. But if they were, that's going to be a very difficult situation to repair."
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3944555
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I do. Mcdaniels wanted his boy....it's his team now, not Shanny's. Cassel is the type who just plays. No crying, no drama, he does what he's told and he is a leader. Cassel is thought of as a top ten QB in the NFL according to Adam Shefter. HIs numbers back that up and no one knows him better than Mcdaniels. Oh, and this won't happen with Cassel, ever:
Cutler is 17-20 with no playoff appearances since supplanting Jake Plummer late in the 2006 season, and he's known for his petulant, moody personality in his dealings with teammates and the media alike.
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cutler is shanahans guy.
new coach=every ones on the block
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cutler is shanahans guy.
new coach=every ones on the block
Agreed. Cutler is thought of as a whiny bitch. Cassel is a stand up leader. Not to mention, he's a hell of a qb. McDaniels could have brought in his boy and generated a first round draft choice to use on defense.
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What is the source for these comments about Cutler? I don't follow the Broncos.
What I do know is Cutler is a good NFL QB and did a great job this past season with only one WR and no running game. Good starting NFL QBs are hard to come by. Cassel is still a risk. Cutler isn't.
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What is the source for these comments about Cutler? I don't follow the Broncos.
What I do know is Cutler is a good NFL QB and did a great job this past season with only one WR and no running game. Good starting NFL QBs are hard to come by. Cassel is still a risk. Cutler isn't.
Cassel is not a risk. He started 15 games last season. McDaniel's knows him better than anyone. He was his coach. Why would the guy bring in a player who he coached for 3 years if he did not think he would do well? You're basically implying that Josh McDaniel's is retarded. Cassel proved that he is a great QB last year....just like Cutler did the season before (his first season). The quote I posted was from your article above, did you read it, it explains the situation (which is a lot of he-said-she said stuff).
McDaniel's is the new head coach, and sometimes someone else's guy is not your guy. Cassel is not just a good player, he is a team guy and a leader. As shown above Cutler is perceived to be a whiny bitch. Look at his public spat with Phillip Rivers - would Manning or Brady do that?
I don't agree with the trade, but if Cutler is not a leader and a team guy, I can see why you bring in Cassel. Also, McDaniels can run his O with Cassel from the start.
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Cassel is not a risk. He started 15 games last season. McDaniel's knows him better than anyone. He was his coach. Why would the guy bring in a player who he coached for 3 years if he did not think he would do well? You're basically implying that Josh McDaniel's is retarded. Cassel proved that he is a great QB last year....just like Cutler did the season before (his first season). The quote I posted was from your article above, did you read it, it explains the situation (which is a lot of he-said-she said stuff).
McDaniel's is the new head coach, and sometimes someone else's guy is not your guy. Cassel is not just a good player, he is a team guy and a leader. As shown above Cutler is perceived to be a whiny bitch. Look at his public spat with Phillip Rivers - would Manning or Brady do that?
I don't agree with the trade, but if Cutler is not a leader and a team guy, I can see why you bring in Cassel. Also, McDaniels can run his O with Cassel from the start.
Cassel is a risk. He has only started 15 games in his career and not every start was good (probably only about half were quality starts). He also had Moss and Welker. Really not much of a comparison to him and Cutler at this stage of their careers. I'm not saying Cassel won't be a good NFL QB, but it's a little early to say he isn't a risk.
I'm not implying anyone is retarded. I'm saying it was dumb to try and trade a proven NFL QB for a guy with 15 starts who wouldn't even be an upgrade. And now they're apparently lying about whether they tried to trade Cutler.
I didn't see the part in the article that said "Cutler is . . . known for his petulant, moody personality in his dealings with teammates and the media alike." My bad. The source is Mortensen. He's pretty reliable.
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of course he's moody hes a fuckin diabetic
ever lived with one?
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Cassel is a risk. He has only started 15 games in his career and not every start was good (probably only about half were quality starts). He also had Moss and Welker. Really not much of a comparison to him and Cutler at this stage of their careers. I'm not saying Cassel won't be a good NFL QB, but it's a little early to say he isn't a risk.
I'm not implying anyone is retarded. I'm saying it was dumb to try and trade a proven NFL QB for a guy with 15 starts who wouldn't even be an upgrade. And now they're apparently lying about whether they tried to trade Cutler.
I didn't see the part in the article that said "Cutler is . . . known for his petulant, moody personality in his dealings with teammates and the media alike." My bad. The source is Mortensen. He's pretty reliable.
Cassel would be just as good as Cutler in Denver - imo, he is McDaniels guy, Payton Manning had Harrison - Wayne and Edge (is he no good?), Cassel finished up the the season as a top 8 QB in the NFL and that aint a fluke. I would agree with you if McDaniels had not coached Cassel over the last three years. How do you know Cutler is going to thrive in McDaniels system? They are going to be the patriots 2.0. They are switching to a 3/4 D and the O is going to be different.
I can see why McDaniels would try this. Cutler is moody and players dont like him. Also, if he does not buy in to the McDaniels way, he is screwed. Josh knows what he is getting with Cassel, he coached him for three years and he is going to run a hybrid of the pats system. There is little risk in this for Josh.
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Big mess for the Broncos. Now that it's out in the open that the Broncos aern't 100% committed to Cutler as the starter, QB starved teams should start throwing out trade offers for this guy.
Cutler probably wants out of Denver now. Apparently, the Broncos are denying the trade rumors. Cutler and his agent know for a fact that he was being shopped and possibly replaced by Cassel.
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Cassel would be just as good as Cutler in Denver - imo, he is McDaniels guy, Payton Manning had Harrison - Wayne and Edge (is he no good?), Cassel finished up the the season as a top 8 QB in the NFL and that aint a fluke. I would agree with you if McDaniels had not coached Cassel over the last three years. How do you know Cutler is going to thrive in McDaniels system? They are going to be the patriots 2.0. They are switching to a 3/4 D and the O is going to be different.
I can see why McDaniels would try this. Cutler is moody and players dont like him. Also, if he does not buy in to the McDaniels way, he is screwed. Josh knows what he is getting with Cassel, he coached him for three years and he is going to run a hybrid of the pats system. There is little risk in this for Josh.
I don't know if Cutler is going to thrive in a new system, but I do know he is a proven NFL QB, which is very hard to come by. They now have a self-created mess over this trade fiasco. I don't blame Cutler for being upset. They ought to at least own up to trying to trade the guy. How is he supposed to trust the new leadership?
You're placing more stock in Cassel's 7 or 8 quality starts than me. I think he still has to prove that he is a solid QB (on Cutler's level) over the course of a season, without Moss and Welker. We'll find out in KC, because he won't have nearly the tools he had in NE.
Denver should have been trying to solidify the running game instead of screwing around with something that isn't broken.
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I don't know if Cutler is going to thrive in a new system, but I do know he is a proven NFL QB, which is very hard to come by. They now have a self-created mess over this trade fiasco. I don't blame Cutler for being upset. They ought to at least own up to trying to trade the guy. How is he supposed to trust the new leadership?
You're placing more stock in Cassel's 7 or 8 quality starts than me. I think he still has to prove that he is a solid QB (on Cutler's level) over the course of a season, without Moss and Welker. We'll find out in KC, because he won't have nearly the tools he had in NE.
Denver should have been trying to solidify the running game instead of screwing around with something that isn't broken.
Again, Josh Mcdaniels has coached Matt Cassel for three years. Why would he trade Cutler if he was not certain Cassel could get it done on a high level in his new system? Cassel has more than 8 quality starts and he is a very good NFL QB. I have wached every game Cassel has ever played in and he has proven he can play with the best of them. He will have great the tools in KC. Pioli is the man who drafted him and they are 40 million under the cap. Dwayne Bowe and Tony Gonzalez are pro-bowl players. They have a decent running game....etc. Pioli will get him more tools. KC has a bunch of good players....they had a very poor coach before.
I don't blame Cutler for being upset either, but I can see why McDaniels would trade him. I'm not putting any stock in anything. McDaniels has worked with Cassel for years and he thought Cassel will do better in his system then Cutler. He might know a thing or two, he was a qb coach to Tom Brady for 2 years, and his O was the greatest O in NFL history in 2007.
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Again, Josh Mcdaniels has coached Matt Cassel for three years. Cassel has more than 8 quality starts and he is a good NFL QB. I have wached every game Cassel has ever played in. He will have the tools in KC. Pioli is the man who drafted him and they are 40 million under the cap. Dwayne Bowe and Tony Gonzalez are pro-bowl players. Pioli will get him more tools. KC has a bunch of good players....they had a very poor coach before.
You watched all 15 of his career starts, so you have a more informed opinion than me, but Cassel did not have more than 8 quality starts IMO. At least not statistically.
We'll see what happens in KC. I think Edwards is a good coach. He didn't have the horses. Gonzo is apparently on the block. LJ wants out. Bowe isn't Moss. He isn't even Welker. But we'll see.
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You watched all 15 of his career starts, so you have a more informed opinion than me, but Cassel did not have more than 8 quality starts IMO. At least not statistically.
We'll see what happens in KC. I think Edwards is a good coach. He didn't have the horses. Gonzo is apparently on the block. LJ wants out. Bowe isn't Moss. He isn't even Welker. But we'll see.
Plus his preseason games. Of course he is going to struggle when he first steps in....the kid never played in a live game for real. His numners at the endof the season solidify him as a top QB. he put the team on his back and carried them many times, he is a winner. McDaniel's not only saw Cassel over his starts, he watched him in practice for 3 years. He knows what he is getting. Also, Cassel's numbers at the end of the year speak for themselves. He was a top 8 QB In the NFL, period. Edwards is a terrible coach, and his 15-33 record over the last three years proves this, imo. Edwards is a nice guy, but he is a horrid coach. If he didn't have the horses then he should have learned how to pick em! He picked at the top of the draft for three years.
I'm sorry beach, but your comments about Bowe are insane. The kid had 995 receiving yards his rookie year and 1022 yards last year with a poor QB. How much better should he be? 1500 yards? Come on. Cassel will put him over the top, mark it down. Tony has not been traded yet, LJ has not been traded yet and the chiefs are 50 million + under the cap. Pioli will give Cassel the players he needs to win. It might not be right away, but Cassel and co will make it happen for KC. Cassel is for real.
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Plus his preseason games. Of course he is going to struggle when he first steps in....the kid never played in a live game for real. His numners at the endof the season solidify him as a top QB. he put the team on his back and carried them many times, he is a winner. McDaniel's not only saw Cassel over his starts, he watched him in practice for 3 years. He knows what he is getting. Also, Cassel's numbers at the end of the year speak for themselves. He was a top 8 QB In the NFL, period. Edwards is a terrible coach, and his 15-33 record over the last three years proves this, imo. Edwards is a nice guy, but he is a horrid coach. If he didn't have the horses then he should have learned how to pick em! He picked at the top of the draft for three years.
I'm sorry beach, but your comments about Bowe are insane. The kid had 995 receiving yards his rookie year and 1022 yards last year with a poor QB. How much better should he be? 1500 yards? Come on. Cassel will put him over the top, mark it down. Tony has not been traded yet, LJ has not been traded yet and the chiefs are 50 million + under the cap. Pioli will give Cassel the players he needs to win. It might not be right away, but Cassel and co will make it happen for KC. Cassel is for real.
He did have some very good games (which is why I added him on my FF team), but it was only a handful of games. I think it's premature to crown someone until they have at least one good season. I'm not really disagreeing with you that he will be good. He probably will be. I'm just reserving judgment till I see him play a little more.
Edwards was as good as his lousy team. If you don't have the horses I don't care how good of a coach you are. Belichick was 36 and 44 in Cleveland, before he had one of the greatest QBs in NFL history. Other than people like Parcells, most coaches don't succeed with crappy players, especially at QB.
Saying Bowe is no Moss or Welker is insane? Here is a comparison the past two years:
Moss
167 for 2501, 34 TDs
Welker
223 for 2340, 11 TDs
Bowe
156 for 2017, 12 TDs
I didn't say he wasn't good. I said he wasn't Moss or Welker and his numbers show that. What that means is Cassel will have a harder time throwing the ball in KC than he did in NE, especially if Gonzo or LJ are gone.
I'll be watching Cassel because I play FF, but I consider him a high risk player at this point.
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He did have some very good games (which is why I added him on my FF team), but it was only a handful of games. I think it's premature to crown someone until they have at least one good season. I'm not really disagreeing with you that he will be good. He probably will be. I'm just reserving judgment till I see him play a little more.
Edwards was as good as his lousy team. If you don't have the horses I don't care how good of a coach you are. Belichick was 36 and 44 in Cleveland, before he had one of the greatest QBs in NFL history. Other than people like Parcells, most coaches don't succeed with crappy players, especially at QB.
Saying Bowe is no Moss or Welker is insane? Here is a comparison the past two years:
Moss
167 for 2501, 34 TDs
Welker
223 for 2340, 11 TDs
Bowe
156 for 2017, 12 TDs
I didn't say he wasn't good. I said he wasn't Moss or Welker and his numbers show that. What that means is Cassel will have a harder time throwing the ball in KC than he did in NE, especially if Gonzo or LJ are gone.
I'll be watching Cassel because I play FF, but I consider him a high risk player at this point.
Don't get me started on the Cleveland situation, Belichick was handcuffed there. Herm Edwards is not in the same stratosphere as Belichick so I wont even bother mentioning the two. Belichick won 11 games last season with a plethora of injuries to his team and a rookie QB at the helm. Also, Belichick had two rings and two defensive gameplans in the HOF when he went to coach the Browns. To me Herm sucks, but maybe I'm wrong.
Moss and Welker were not Moss (resurected) and Welker until they started playing with Brady and Cassel. Before that, Moss' numbers where down and Welker had average numbers. A fair comparison would be to compare Moss while he was in Oakland and Welker while he was in Miami, because Brody Croyle is garbage and Herm couldent coach his way out of a paper bag, imo. I think Bowe goes to the probowl next year.
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Don't get me started on the Cleveland situation, Belichick was handcuffed there. Herm Edwards is not in the same stratosphere as Belichick so I wont even bother mentioning the two. Belichick won 11 games last season with a plethora of injuries to his team and a rookie QB at the helm. Also, Belichick had two rings and two defensive gameplans in the HOF when he went to coach the Browns. To me Herm sucks, but maybe I'm wrong.
Moss and Welker were not Moss (resurected) and Welker until they started playing with Brady and Cassel. Before that, Moss' numbers where down and Welker had average numbers. A fair comparison would be to compare Moss while he was in Oakland and Welker while he was in Miami, because Brody Croyle is garbage and Herm couldent coach his way out of a paper bag, imo. I think Bowe goes to the probowl next year.
Belichick had lousy QBs and pretty average talent. That's the reason he didn't win. He didn't become a "genius" until he had the best playoff QB since Montana. He's a great coach, but he's still only as good as his players. Give him Kerry Collins instead of Brady and I bet he has no Super Bowl wins.
I can't stand Moss, but he was one of the best WRs in football before he went to NE. He stunk, and quit, in Oakland, but when he feels like playing, he's a monster. You really cannot compare Moss and Welker to Bowe and whoever else lines up in KC. Night and day.
Bowe might go to the Pro Bowl next year, but the point was there is less talent in KC than NE. We'll find out how good Cassel really is when he doesn't have the fastest WR and arguably the best slot WR in football lining up on Sundays.
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Belichick had lousy QBs and pretty average talent. That's the reason he didn't win. He didn't become a "genius" until he had the best playoff QB since Montana. He's a great coach, but he's still only as good as his players. Give him Kerry Collins instead of Brady and I bet he has no Super Bowl wins.
youre ignorant. Beilicheck MADE brady.
do u think brady just walked in and bill had the offense run flee flickers,clown routes and hail mary's?
bill was VERY conservative when brady came in
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youre ignorant. Beilicheck MADE brady.
do u think brady just walked in and bill had the offense run flee flickers,clown routes and hail mary's?
bill was VERY conservative when brady came in
Speak English boy.
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Cutler has all the tools to be a great quarterback. He is a fiesty little fucker. But he is no leader, and he needs to be. The QB is always the leader of the team.
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Speak English boy.
witty....
you know jack shit about sports except what espn feeds you and when it comes to politics youre a mental midget.
i wish gb had an ignore button
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Cutler has all the tools to be a great quarterback. He is a fiesty little fucker. But he is no leader, and he needs to be. The QB is always the leader of the team.
Sounds like he has some personality issues he needs to work through, but he can definitely play.
He might lose his WR. Did you hear that knucklehead got arrested again? ::)
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Sounds like he has some personality issues he needs to work through, but he can definitely play.
He might lose his WR. Did you hear that knucklehead got arrested again? ::)
Right. In Atlanta too...While i was in LA. But he wont get in trouble as the charges were dropped.
Hey do you think ax'ing Mike was the right thing to do. I mean the strength to his teams are his running backs and he was down to his 8th string. I think it was messed up.
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witty....
you know jack shit about sports except what espn feeds you and when it comes to politics youre a mental midget.
i wish gb had an ignore button
lol. :) Listen dum dum, all you have to do is ignore me. Don't engage me. It's pretty easy. I do it all the time. :) And learn how to write better than a third grader.
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Right. In Atlanta too...While i was in LA. But he wont get in trouble as the charges were dropped.
Hey do you think ax'ing Mike was the right thing to do. I mean the strength to his teams are his running backs and he was down to his 8th string. I think it was messed up.
The league can still punish him. Remember Pac Man was suspended for being a hoodlum, not because he was actually convicted each time he was arrested.
Which Mike you talking about?
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The league can still punish him. Remember Pac Man was suspended for being a hoodlum, not because he was actually convicted each time he was arrested.
Which Mike you talking about?
Shanahan..ex- coach for Denver
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Shanahan..ex- coach for Denver
Ah so. Heck no they shouldn't have fired him. Didn't they fire him because he refused to fire one or more of his staff?
You're right about the RB situation. They basically signed Tatum Bell off the street.
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Belichick had lousy QBs and pretty average talent. That's the reason he didn't win. He didn't become a "genius" until he had the best playoff QB since Montana. He's a great coach, but he's still only as good as his players. Give him Kerry Collins instead of Brady and I bet he has no Super Bowl wins.
I can't stand Moss, but he was one of the best WRs in football before he went to NE. He stunk, and quit, in Oakland, but when he feels like playing, he's a monster. You really cannot compare Moss and Welker to Bowe and whoever else lines up in KC. Night and day.
Bowe might go to the Pro Bowl next year, but the point was there is less talent in KC than NE. We'll find out how good Cassel really is when he doesn't have the fastest WR and arguably the best slot WR in football lining up on Sundays.
Belichick made Brady just as much as Brady made Belichick. Don't forget that Belichick was able to keep things calm between Bledsoe and Brady when he benched Bledsoe (a very unpopular decision at the time). You can speculate all you want about Kerry Collins, but since it will never happen it's really a useless point - imo. Collins did great with the Titans this year, maybe he gets over the hump with Belichick. Look what Belichick did with Cassel this year. Herm Edwards is not in the same stratosphere as Belichick. As I said, Belichick had two rings and two defensive gameplans in the HOF before he stepped foot in NE. Belichick = 5 rings, 2 defensive gameplans in the NFL HOF, 16-0, 11-5 with rookie QB last year. Herm = losing record. He's like that guy you love in the office, but he sucks at his job....they keep him around because "he is a great guy who is loved by everyone"....but he still stinks.
I can't stand Moss, but he was one of the best WRs in football before he went to NE. He stunk, and quit, in Oakland, but when he feels like playing, he's a monster. You really cannot compare Moss and Welker to Bowe and whoever else lines up in KC. Night and day.
Sure you can. Dwayne Bowe had over 1,000 yards during his second year in the NFL with a garbage QB.....of course that total will climb when Cassel comes to town. It takes three years to develope as a wr in the NFL....Bowe is elite, two 1000 yards seasons since he came in to the NFL? What more do you want!?
Also, Dwayne Bowe had much better numbers than Welker over his first two season in the NFL. It was when Welker started working with Brady and Cassel that his true talent shined. Of course you can compare Bowe and Welker. I would bet you never watched Welker before 2007. I saw him a few times a year when he played NE and I saw the potential there. Common sense says that if Welker increased his numbers 40% playing with Cassel and Brady...that Bowe will increase his numbers also. In regards to Moss, no one does well in Oakland....it is what it is.
Bowe might go to the Pro Bowl next year, but the point was there is less talent in KC than NE. We'll find out how good Cassel really is when he doesn't have the fastest WR and arguably the best slot WR in football lining up on Sundays.
Right....but KC now has the guy who put some of the talent on that NE team and they have some good players also. Do you know a lot of the guys on KC? Herm didn't know how to use them correctly. We already know how good Cassel can be when he has the right tools. Again, Moss and Welker were not what they are now until they started working with Brady and then Cassel. Moss is fast....but the fastest, no. KC has 58 mill in cap space, and they have a lot og draft picks. Pioli will turn it around. Look for them to be contenders within two years.
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Belichick made Brady just as much as Brady made Belichick. Don't forget that Belichick was able to keep things calm between Bledsoe and Brady when he benched Bledsoe (a very unpopular decision at the time). You can speculate all you want about Kerry Collins, but since it will never happen it's really a useless point - imo. Collins did great with the Titans this year, maybe he gets over the hump with Belichick. Look what Belichick did with Cassel this year. Herm Edwards is not in the same stratosphere as Belichick. As I said, Belichick had two rings and two defensive gameplans in the HOF before he stepped foot in NE. Belichick = 5 rings, 2 defensive gameplans in the NFL HOF, 16-0, 11-5 with rookie QB last year. Herm = losing record. He's like that guy you love in the office, but he sucks at his job....they keep him around because "he is a great guy who is loved by everyone"....but he still stinks.
Sure you can. Dwayne Bowe had over 1,000 yards during his second year in the NFL with a garbage QB.....of course that total will climb when Cassel comes to town. It takes three years to develope as a wr in the NFL....Bowe is elite, two 1000 yards seasons since he came in to the NFL? What more do you want!?
Also, Dwayne Bowe had much better numbers than Welker over his first two season in the NFL. It was when Welker started working with Brady and Cassel that his true talent shined. Of course you can compare Bowe and Welker. I would bet you never watched Welker before 2007. I saw him a few times a year when he played NE and I saw the potential there. Common sense says that if Welker increased his numbers 40% playing with Cassel and Brady...that Bowe will increase his numbers also. In regards to Moss, no one does well in Oakland....it is what it is.
Right....but KC now has the guy who put some of the talent on that NE team and they have some good players also. Do you know a lot of the guys on KC? Herm didn't know how to use them correctly. We already know how good Cassel can be when he has the right tools. Again, Moss and Welker were not what they are now until they started working with Brady and then Cassel. Moss is fast....but the fastest, no. KC has 58 mill in cap space, and they have a lot og draft picks. Pioli will turn it around. Look for them to be contenders within two years.
Belichick didn't make Brady. He's not an offensive coordinator, not a QB coach, and doesn't call plays on offense. He gets props for recognizing Brady's potential and for giving him the opportunity, but it's really a stretch to say he made Brady.
I'm not saying Edwards is as good as Belichick, just making the point that great players make great coaches. Edwards had a winning record in NY with pretty average players and a losing record in KC with crappy players.
You know why Belichick was 36 and 44 in Cleveland? Because his QBs were Kosar, Tomczak, and Testaverde.
It really doesn't matter what Welker did before he got to NE. The fact is today he is arguably the best slot in the NFL and Moss, when he feels like playing, is arguably the most dangerous WR in the NFL. Cassel won't have that combination in KC.
You don't think Moss is the fastest WR in football? I haven't seen anyone faster, particularly at his size.
But back to Cutler, now I'm hearing they aren't trying to trade him. That's probably because they couldn't get a good enough offer. What a mess they created. Not a good start for the new crew. Plus they might lose Marshall to suspension.
EDIT: Edwards had a losing record in NY too, but had winning seasons 3 out of 5 years.
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Belichick didn't make Brady. He's not an offensive coordinator, not a QB coach, and doesn't call plays on offense. He gets props for recognizing Brady's potential and for giving him the opportunity, but it's really a stretch to say he made Brady.
I said that they made each other.....not that Belichick made Brady. Belichick does call offensive plays from time to time and he does have final say in all gameplans and drafting. He would work with McDaniel's on plays over the course of a game. Belichick recognized the talent in Brady, Cassel and Bledsoe.
I'm not saying Edwards is as good as Belichick, just making the point that great players make great coaches. Edwards had a winning record in NY with pretty average players and a losing record in KC with crappy players.
Was that his team? Why do Jets fans think he is a putz? He had a crappy team in KC because he does not know how to coach his talent, imo.
You know why Belichick was 36 and 44 in Cleveland? Because his QBs were Kosar, Tomczak, and Testaverde.
Thats far from the only reason Belichick had that record. It was not just the qb's.
It really doesn't matter what Welker did before he got to NE. The fact is today he is arguably the best slot in the NFL and Moss, when he feels like playing, is arguably the most dangerous WR in the NFL. Cassel won't have that combination in KC.
Yes it does. We are comparing Dwayne Bowe Wes Welker. Bowe has better numbers over his first two years in a similar situation in Miami. Cassel will make Bowe even better....but its hard to improve on over a 1000 yards a season.
You have no idea what Cassel will have. The chiefs have money, players and the draft. They also have Tony G and Bowe which are pretty damn good.
You don't think Moss is the fastest WR in football? I haven't seen anyone faster, particularly at his size.
Not anymore. He's very fast but not the fastest.
But back to Cutler, now I'm hearing they aren't trying to trade him. That's probably because they couldn't get a good enough offer. What a mess they created. Not a good start for the new crew. Plus they might lose Marshall to suspension.
It is what it is. It's McDaniel's show and if Cutler is a whiner he won't want him.
EDIT: Edwards had a losing record in NY too, but had winning seasons 3 out of 5 years.
Most Jets fans I know think he was a horrid coach. I agree....he sucks from a tactical standpoint, he's just a nice guy.
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I said that they made each other.....not that Belichick made Brady. Belichick does call offensive plays from time to time and he does have final say in all gameplans and drafting. He would work with McDaniel's on plays over the course of a game. Belichick recognized the talent in Brady, Cassel and Bledsoe.
Was that his team? Why do Jets fans think he is a putz? He had a crappy team in KC because he does not know how to coach his talent, imo.
Thats far from the only reason Belichick had that record. It was not just the qb's.
Yes it does. We are comparing Dwayne Bowe Wes Welker. Bowe has better numbers over his first two years in a similar situation in Miami. Cassel will make Bowe even better....but its hard to improve on over a 1000 yards a season.
You have no idea what Cassel will have. The chiefs have money, players and the draft. They also have Tony G and Bowe which are pretty damn good.
Not anymore. He's very fast but not the fastest.
It is what it is. It's McDaniel's show and if Cutler is a whiner he won't want him.
Most Jets fans I know think he was a horrid coach. I agree....he sucks from a tactical standpoint, he's just a nice guy.
I have a very good idea of what Cassel will have his first year, and it will not be Moss or Welker. I also know he's not going to have two stud WRs (barring a trade for someone like Ocho Cinco).
What WRs in the NFL are faster than Moss? I can't think of any. I'm talking WRs who can actually play and not combine phenoms.
I have no idea why Jets fans you spoke to didn't like Edwards.
Hard to deny that they did not start well in Denver. If you're going to trade your franchise QB, at least tell the guy beforehand. Not a smart move. But I'm they'll all get over it.
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I have a very good idea of what Cassel will have his first year, and it will not be Moss or Welker. I also know he's not going to have two stud WRs (barring a trade for someone like Ocho Cinco).
What WRs in the NFL are faster than Moss? I can't think of any. I'm talking WRs who can actually play and not combine phenoms.
I have no idea why Jets fans you spoke to didn't like Edwards.
Hard to deny that they did not start well in Denver. If you're going to trade your franchise QB, at least tell the guy beforehand. Not a smart move. But I'm they'll all get over it.
They will be bad next season. Not bottom of the barrell because they have a stud at left tackle. And its hard to suck when you have the best left tackle in the game. It atleast gives your QB time and it gives some running lanes.. Skill Position in is good with Marshall, Royal, Champ, And i think they got B=DAWK..But whats going to hurt is their meat and Potato Positions. Defensive line and line backer, Running back and full back. Icing with no cake..
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They will be bad next season. Not bottom of the barrell because they have a stud at left tackle. And its hard to suck when you have the best left tackle in the game. It atleast gives your QB time and it gives some running lanes.. Skill Position in is good with Marshall, Royal, Champ, And i think they got B=DAWK..But whats going to hurt is their meat and Potato Positions. Defensive line and line backer, Running back and full back. Icing with no cake..
They signed Jordan and Arrington to compete at RB, so at least they'll have a little to work with. I agree they will probably be bad.
Although . . . the do play in a pretty weak division.
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They signed Jordan and Arrington to compete at RB, so at least they'll have a little to work with. I agree they probably be bad.
Although . . . the do play in a pretty weak division.
Average at best..
But think about the division. San Diego will be there, Kansas will bring up the rear only because of the major changes. But they did get an upgrade at QB..The dark horse is the Raiders.
Underrated Defense. Those dudes get it done
Solid Running Game. Fargas, McFadden, Bush..those dudes can run
Yes there is a big ? at QB but if they can depend on the run in a division that gives up tons of running yards, Russel wont have to put it up as much. They kist needed to be stable. They are now.
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I dont think cassel would have done any better then cutler in denver last year that being said i dont know if cutler would have done any better then cassel in New england last year. One thing is for sure new england had more talent surronding cassel then denver had surronding cutler or at least more talent spread out over the team. I would say picking up cassel is somewhat of a risk right now, he spent how many seasons learning the pats program, plays and players? bringing him into a new program will definitly be tough, ill tell you this though dwayne bowe will be alot higher in fantasy drafts this year.
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Average at best..
But think about the division. San Diego will be there, Kansas will bring up the rear only because of the major changes. But they did get an upgrade at QB..The dark horse is the Raiders.
Underrated Defense. Those dudes get it done
Solid Running Game. Fargas, McFadden, Bush..those dudes can run
Yes there is a big ? at QB but if they can depend on the run in a division that gives up tons of running yards, Russel wont have to put it up as much. They kist needed to be stable. They are now.
Arrington is average. Jordan is decent. But remember what average RBs have done in that Denver offense. On the other hand, that was under Shanny.
I'm not expecting much out of the AFC West. It's San Diego and everyone else.
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I dont think cassel would have done any better then cutler in denver last year that being said i dont know if cutler would have done any better then cassel in New england last year. One thing is for sure new england had more talent surronding cassel then denver had surronding cutler or at least more talent spread out over the team. I would say picking up cassel is somewhat of a risk right now, he spent how many seasons learning the pats program, plays and players? bringing him into a new program will definitly be tough, ill tell you this though dwayne bowe will be alot higher in fantasy drafts this year.
Yep. That's pretty much what I was saying: Cutler is fine, Cassel is a risk.
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Arrington is average. Jordan is decent. But remember what average RBs have done in that Denver offense. On the other hand, that was under Shanny.
I'm not expecting much out of the AFC West. It's San Diego and everyone else.
Oh yeah..Im sure Shanny could make anyone look like a star.."olandis Gary...lol" but Shanny aint there no more..So denver will be a mess..
On another note..Al Davis will get T.O.
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Yep. That's pretty much what I was saying: Cutler is fine, Cassel is a risk.
Your argument makes no sense. Cutler is the bigger Risk to Mcdaniels than Cassel is. Josh is changing the Denver system to the patriots system. Matt Cassel works in the Patriots system. Matt Cassel is a good leader. Matt Cassel is not a poor locker room leader...and Matt Cassel was just coached for three years by Josh McDaniel's. Josh is going to have to teach Cutler the NE system and all their plays. Cassel knows all this already. For some reason you seem to think that Denver is going to be Denver next year. It's not....its going to be made into a spread style O with a 3/4 D.....just like the....PATS.
Is Cutler a great QB? Yes. Will Cutler be good in the Pats system? I don't know. One thing is for sure though, Cassel is good in the pats system. Saying Cassel is a bigger risk to Denver when McDaniel's has coached Cassel for 3 years, is implementing a patriots system in Denver and is looking for a QB to run the system that Cassel excelled in is inaccurate and uniformed.
In the Pats system Cassel is more proven than Cutler. Cutler plays in the Shanahan system.
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Oh yeah..Im sure Shanny could make anyone look like a star.."olandis Gary...lol" but Shanny aint there no more..So denver will be a mess..
On another note..Al Davis will get T.O.
How do you figure they will be a mess? They just got a coach who led the most potent O in NFL history and learned from one of the greatest coaches in the history of the game....I think he might know a thing or two. You might want to give him a shot.
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How do you figure they will be a mess? They just got a coach who led the most potent O in NFL history and learned from one of the greatest coaches in the history of the game....I think he might know a thing or two. You might want to give him a shot.
Tempermantal QB. New System...it can get ugly. The reason new coaches worked in Atlanta is because if a team has a good running game (2nd in nfl) it takes pressure off a QB and a coach can coach. But with the talent in Denver..looks like Jay will have to learn a new system that will lean on him a lot..
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How do you know this? Josh McDaniel's is going to run a different system than Shanny. He is going to run the Patriots system. Josh KNOWS that Cassel is good in the patriots system and there is no way to tell if Cutler will be just as effective in that system. To Josh McDaniel's ( not Mike Shanahan) Matt Cassel is less of a risk in his system. he just coached the kid to an 11-5 season, and he has worked with him for three years.
I don't think you base your opinions on logic. Am I saying Cutler should be traded, no. I'm saying that if he was it would make perfect sense considering the Broncos are not longer the broncos ( Totally different system and totally different defense being put in.)
How I do know that Cutler is going to be fine? I don't know. The NE "system" still involves taking snaps, reading defenses, finding opens WRs, and completing passes, all things Cutler has proved he is capable of doing. So, I'm making an assumption that Cutler will continue to be a good NFL QB, just like you are making an assumption that Cassel poses no risk at all and will be a great NFL QB.
Dude what are you talking about? What exactly is illogical about me saying Cutler is a good NFL QB and Cassel is still a risk??
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How I do know that Cutler is going to be fine? I don't know. The NE "system" still involves taking snaps, reading defenses, finding opens WRs, and completing passes, all things Cutler has proved he is capable of doing. So, I'm making an assumption that Cutler will continue to be a good NFL QB, just like you are making an assumption that Cassel poses no risk at all and will be a great NFL QB.
Dude what are you talking about? What exactly is illogical about me saying Cutler is a good NFL QB and Cassel is still a risk??
First off, it's much more complicated than that. The pats run a hybrid - spread style O with different terminology and plays than Denver. Cutler will need to be taught the system and all the language I'm not making any assumptions....I'm trying to tell you that Josh McDaniel's knows that Matt can thrive in his system. He knows this for a fact.
Your illogical by Saying Cassel is more of a risk than Cutler is in McDaniel's system. Again, Josh just coached Cassel for three years, do you think he has no clue what he is doing? Josh is changing the whole team around. The trade would make sense.
Cutler is a good NFL QB....But Josh knows Cassel is what he needs in his system and he is a good leader. Cutler has a bad attitude. Maybe Josh does not like him and maybe he will not be happy in Josh's system.
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First off, it's much more complicated than that. The pats run a hybrid - spread style O with different terminology and plays than Denver. Cutler will need to be taught the system and all the language I'm not making any assumptions....I'm trying to tell you that Josh McDaniel's knows that Matt can thrive in his system. He knows this for a fact.
Your illogical by Saying Cassel is more of a risk than Cutler is in McDaniel's system. Again, Josh just coached Cassel for three years, do you think he has no clue what he is doing? Josh is changing the whole team around. The trade would make sense.
No it isn't more complicated than that. It's football. Unless they are speaking Chinese, it doesn't matter if a new "system" will be put in place. He'll learn new plays just like he did when he was drafted. They're not going to be running something completely foreign like the wishbone (or whatever they call it now). I watch the games too. It's not that complicated. I doubt he will install anything more complicated than what Shanahan ran. Shanahan was a great offensive play caller and great judge of talent. I doubt McDaniel will be in any more sophisticated than Shanahan.
lol . . . So you know for a fact that Cassel is not a risk? And you're calling me illogical? Get real. You're sounding like a homer.
McDaniel coached Cassel for 15 games, which only included about 8 good starts. You are ready to crown the kid after about 8 good starts. I'm not. I don't know much about McDaniel, but I do know he showed his inexperience by trying to trade his franchise QB without even telling the QB he was on the block, then apparently lying about it. That certainly doesn't sound like he knows what he's doing.
We'll just have to agree to disagree on whether Cassel would have been an upgrade over Cutler.
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Doesn't sound good. Cutler also apparently put his house on the market.
Cutler, McDaniels finally meet
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (AP) -- Jay Cutler finally met face-to-face with Josh McDaniels over the weekend, but nothing was resolved, leading to doubt the quarterback will show up for the new coach's first team meeting Monday.
Team spokesman Patrick Smyth told The Associated Press on Sunday that the coach and quarterback involved in a simmering feud over trade talks met Saturday at the team's training facility and both sides agreed to regroup and continue conversations.
Denver station KCNC-TV reported that the meeting didn't go well, and The Denver Post reported that words were exchanged between Cutler and McDaniels.
The Broncos insist they're not going to trade Cutler.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/03/15/broncos.cutler.ap/index.html
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Doesn't sound good. Cutler also apparently put his house on the market.
Cutler, McDaniels finally meet
ENGLEWOOD, Colo. (AP) -- Jay Cutler finally met face-to-face with Josh McDaniels over the weekend, but nothing was resolved, leading to doubt the quarterback will show up for the new coach's first team meeting Monday.
Team spokesman Patrick Smyth told The Associated Press on Sunday that the coach and quarterback involved in a simmering feud over trade talks met Saturday at the team's training facility and both sides agreed to regroup and continue conversations.
Denver station KCNC-TV reported that the meeting didn't go well, and The Denver Post reported that words were exchanged between Cutler and McDaniels.
The Broncos insist they're not going to trade Cutler.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/03/15/broncos.cutler.ap/index.html
NEWSFLASH TO CUTLER!!!!!!!!!!
You didnt make the playoffs you little fuck..What makes you think youre untouchable. NFL is a business not a boyfriend...
This fuckin kid is makin me sick with all this.
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NEWSFLASH TO CUTLER!!!!!!!!!!
You didnt make the playoffs you little fuck..What makes you think youre untouchable. NFL is a business not a boyfriend...
This fuckin kid is makin me sick with all this.
I don't think his beef is with being on the block. It's the fact they tried to trade him without telling him and then lied about it.
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I don't think his beef is with being on the block. It's the fact they tried to trade him without telling him and then lied about it.
Who cares? Cutler is not untouchable. Baby.
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Who cares? Cutler is not untouchable. Baby.
Cutler cares, which is why he's upset. I don't think the issue is whether or not he untouchable. I doubt that's his beef. It's whether the team should have told it's franchise QB they were trying to trade him. There also has to be a trust factor given how they lied about trying to trade him. I don't blame Cutler at all for being upset.
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Cutler cares, which is why he's upset. I don't think the issue is whether or not he untouchable. I doubt that's his beef. It's whether the team should have told it's franchise QB they were trying to trade him. There also has to be a trust factor given how they lied about trying to trade him. I don't blame Cutler at all for being upset.
I don't either, but I can see why Mc D would want to bring in Cassel. However, I am starting to agree with you more as to McDaniel's handling this whole thing poorly. Apparently Cutler wanted to sit down and hash things out, but in the third meeting McDaniel's made it clear that he did not want Cutler to be his QB. At least Mc D should have smoothed things over just for this season and then traded him....there has to be a reason why they don't want this kid. Mc D is a rational and smart man.
On a side note, Cutler is a crybaby and a poor team leader....also, he has done nothing over his tenure in Denver (from a winning standpoint). The Bronc's were willing to eat 20 mill to get Shanny out, so I bet they are in agreement with Mc D regarding Cassel.
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stupid move by the broncos, you don't even consider trading a 25 year old qb that just made the pro bowl
i don't blame cutler for being pissed, who wouldn't be angry about that?
why is cassel such a hot comodity? lets see how he does without moss and welker
if the broncos trade cutler mcdaniels will be gone in 2 years, young pro bowl qb's are a little harder to replace than young unproven coaches
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I agree Earl.
He has now demanded a trade. I hope the Niners make a pitch.
Here is an excerpt from an article about why Cutler is upset:
Cutler feels like McDaniels lost his credibility with him when he initially denied to the quarterback that the Broncos tried to acquire Cassel only to admit it later.
"Before this trade for Cassel thing ever came up, in the two weeks or so I had spent with McDaniels, he was basically telling me that he came to Denver because he wanted to coach me and that we needed to trust each other," Cutler said. "He's never been critical to me. But trust now? How can I trust him now?"
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805
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stupid move by the broncos, you don't even consider trading a 25 year old qb that just made the pro bowl
i don't blame cutler for being pissed, who wouldn't be angry about that?
why is cassel such a hot comodity? lets see how he does without moss and welker
if the broncos trade cutler mcdaniels will be gone in 2 years, young pro bowl qb's are a little harder to replace than young unproven coaches
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Lets see how Manning does without Wayne and Harrison? For the record, you didn't even know who Wes Welker was until he started playing in NE. No one did. People ragged on the pats for making the trade. Cassel is a very good NFL QB and thats a fact. McDaniel's wanted to trade for Cassel, because again, he is not running a Shanahan offense. He wanted to bring in a guy that he knew could run his O...a guy he knew would listen to him....a team player. I could see why he would trade for Cassel.
Earl, what has Jay Cutler accomplished in his career that makes him untouchable? McDaniel's is unproven as a head coach, but he does hold the title of running the best NFL O in the history of the sport.
McDaniel's original premise to make the trade is not surprising at all...however, the way he has handled things since is. Josh comes from a system where players play and they don't bitch like babies. If you mouth of you get cut, it's all about the team. Cutler is a baby and he cries all the time. Others have mentioned that he is a poorl leader. Maybe Josh wants nothing to do with him. The Broncos did just eat 20 million to get Shanahan out fo town. Maybe they want to clean house.
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I agree Earl.
He has now demanded a trade. I hope the Niners make a pitch.
Here is an excerpt from an article about why Cutler is upset:
Cutler feels like McDaniels lost his credibility with him when he initially denied to the quarterback that the Broncos tried to acquire Cassel only to admit it later.
"Before this trade for Cassel thing ever came up, in the two weeks or so I had spent with McDaniels, he was basically telling me that he came to Denver because he wanted to coach me and that we needed to trust each other," Cutler said. "He's never been critical to me. But trust now? How can I trust him now?"
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805
I think this is a great example of why McDaniel's wanted Cassel. Cutler is a baby. He is always running his mouth and crying. Fighting with other players in the media - etc. No one is untouchable. The only issue with this whole thing is that the information was leaked. You would be dumb not to explore trade options for all your players and clearly Josh felt Cassel was a better fit for his system than Cutler.
Btw, what the hell has Jay Cutler done since he turned pro? Compile numbers in a crappy devision and have a horrible record with one of the sports best coaches. I can see why he is upset, but wtf has he done?
"I have a better arm than John Elway" - Jay Cutler
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Jeez,I can see Cutler being pisssed but get over it.he's being a little cu nt.
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I think this is a great example of why McDaniel's wanted Cassel. Cutler is a baby. He is always running his mouth and crying. Fighting with other players in the media - etc. No one is untouchable. The only issue with this whole thing is that the information was leaked. You would be dumb not to explore trade options for all your players and clearly Josh felt Cassel was a better fit for his system than Cutler.
Btw, what the hell has Jay Cutler done since he turned pro? Compile numbers in a crappy devision and have a horrible record with one of the sports best coaches. I can see why he is upset, but wtf has he done?
"I have a better arm than John Elway" - Jay Cutler
I don't think Cutler is untouchable. That really isn't the issue. It's really about trust, integrity, etc.
All Cutler has done since turning pro is become the QB of the one of the best offenses in football and make the Pro Bowl. And he did it with only one WR and about ten different RBs. He's already better than most of the QBs in the NFL.
Will be interested to see where he lands. Just look around the NFL. Many of the starting QBs are pretty average (Chicago, Minnesota, SF, TB, Buffalo, Jets, Titans, etc.).
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Lets see how Manning does without Wayne and Harrison? For the record, you didn't even know who Wes Welker was until he started playing in NE. No one did. People ragged on the pats for making the trade. Cassel is a very good NFL QB and thats a fact. McDaniel's wanted to trade for Cassel, because again, he is not running a Shanahan offense. He wanted to bring in a guy that he knew could run his O...a guy he knew would listen to him....a team player. I could see why he would trade for Cassel.
Earl, what has Jay Cutler accomplished in his career that makes him untouchable? McDaniel's is unproven as a head coach, but he does hold the title of running the best NFL O in the history of the sport.
McDaniel's original premise to make the trade is not surprising at all...however, the way he has handled things since is. Josh comes from a system where players play and they don't bitch like babies. If you mouth of you get cut, it's all about the team. Cutler is a baby and he cries all the time. Others have mentioned that he is a poorl leader. Maybe Josh wants nothing to do with him. The Broncos did just eat 20 million to get Shanahan out fo town. Maybe they want to clean house.
manning would be fine without wayne and harrison just like brady was fine without moss and welker, i don't think we can put cassel in their category
i knew welker and i was pissed when NE picked him up
what has jay accomplished? he made the pro bowl at 25, what exactly has cassel accomplished that jay hasn't?
just because mcdaniels had brady and a rejuvenated moss doesn't mean he's some great offensive mind, brian billick was the coodinator for the vikings in 98 and the ravens never had a good offense
you do not trade 25 year old pro bowl quarterbacks because some new unproven coach doesn't like him, if i'm any team thinking about stafford or sanchez i'm making a trade for cutler
why do you always defend these guys that aren't on your team anymore?
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Jeez,I can see Cutler being pisssed but get over it.he's being a little cu nt.
how could somebody not be angry about this? who wouldn't be pissed if some new guy came in and immediately tried to get rid of you?
mcdaniels isn't exactly making jay feel wanted in meetings so why should jay just forget about the whole thing?
if i was a 25 year old pro bowl quarterback, i wouldn't put up with that disrespect from some unproven coach either, i'd demand a trade
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how could somebody not be angry about this? who wouldn't be pissed if some new guy came in and immediately tried to get rid of you?
mcdaniels isn't exactly making jay feel wanted in meetings so why should jay just forget about the whole thing?
if i was a 25 year old pro bowl quarterback, i wouldn't put up with that disrespect from some unproven coach either, i'd demand a trade
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NFL is a tough buisness people get cut,traded and so on.you just gotta deal with it.
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NFL is a tough buisness people get cut,traded and so on.you just gotta deal with it.
true but if i'm some 25 year old pro bowl quarterback i would not tolerate disrespect
totally different than some backup that is just happy to have an nfl job
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manning would be fine without Wayne and harrison just like brady was fine without moss and welker, i don't think we can put cassel in their category
Thats not fair. You cant be biased with your argument. Payton Manning has always been surrounded by the best talent in the game, so we don't know how he would be without them. How would Rivers be without LT, and Gates....How about E. Manning without Plex, Jacobs and Toomer.... Brady has proven he could be great without great wr's. Brandon Marshal and Daniel Graham are not exactly chopped liver out in Denver, btw. My point is that Cassel did a lot of things that proved he was a great QB that had nothing to do with his wr's. Also, the pats O-line allowed the second most sacks in the NFL last year, Cassel is simply a great young player. He has the moxy, the stats and the wins to prove this. he's not better than Cutler, but he is just as good in his system as Cutler was in Shanny's.
what has jay accomplished? he made the pro bowl at 25, what exactly has cassel accomplished that jay hasn't?
So what? Lots of guys make the pro bowl. Has Cutler ever gone 11-5? Cassel had better numbers than Cutler last year. Cassel had pro-bowl type numbers last year. Did Farve have a great year last year? He mad the pro bowl, right?
just because McDaniel's had brady and a rejuvenated moss doesn't mean he's some great offensive mind, brian billick was the coodinator for the vikings in 98 and the ravens never had a good offense
Moss was terrible the year before he got to NE in Oakland....it's not all Moss. Why was he rejuvenated? If your going to tell me that organzing the best O in the history of game is not a big deal you are clearly unwilling to use logic, stats and facts in your argument. You Billick point is just perplexing so I'm going to leave that one alone. McDaniel's also helped to coach a rookie QB to an 11-5 record with 14 starters on Ir in the second hardest devision in the game....not bad.
you do not trade 25 year old pro bowl quarterbacks because some new unproven coach doesn't like him, if i'm any team thinking about stafford or sanchez i'm making a trade for cutler
Of course you think about it if you run a different system and you have a guy who you know that is a better team player and he is just as capable off putting up pro bowl numbers in your system. Do you even watch Cassel play, because he had a pro bowl year last year. If Moss was the reason for this, why didn't he make the pro-bowl?
why do you always defend these guys that aren't on your team anymore?
It's not about a guy from "my team" I have been saying that I can see why McDaniel's would go after Cassel and that trady Cutler is not pure insanity. Alot of you guys dont look at things like this any deeper than "pro-bowl" and reputation. Cassel is proven in the pats system, Cutler is not. I'm not saying Cutler can't do it, or that Cassel is better than Cutler....I'm saying that I can see why Mc D would try to trade him for Cassel.
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true but if i'm some 25 year old pro bowl quarterback i would not tolerate disrespect
totally different than some backup that is just happy to have an nfl job
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Disrespect? Earl, McDaniel's is implementing a patriots O in Denver. The guy looked into trading Cutler for a guy who he has coached for the last 5 years and who he knows that can win in his system.
Cutler should have gone out there, kicked ass with Josh and then when he showed he was the man asked for the trade. The NFL is a business and guys do whats best for their team. Cutler is a baby.
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Disrespect? Earl, McDaniel's is implementing a patriots O in Denver. The guy looked into trading Cutler for a guy who he has coached for the last 5 years and who he knows that can win in his system.
Cutler should have gone out there, kicked ass with Josh and then when he showed he was the man asked for the trade. The NFL is a business and guys do whats best for their team. Cutler is a baby.
when you're a young pro bowl qb you have power, you can do what is best for you
jay knows he's not the new coach's guy so he wants to go where he is wanted
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when you're a young pro bowl qb you have power, you can do what is best for you
jay knows he's not the new coach's guy so he wants to go where he is wanted
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I get that, and I'm not saying that Cutler is wrong....I'm saying that I can see why Josh would go after Cassel and since Cutler knows the NFL is a business he should go out and kick ass THEN ask for the trade. He's in the media crying like a girl over this.
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Thats not fair. You cant be biased with your argument. Payton Manning has always been surrounded by the best talent in the game, so we don't know how he would be without them. How would Rivers be without LT, and Gates....How about E. Manning without Plex, Jacobs and Toomer.... Brady has proven he could be great without great wr's. Brandon Marshal and Daniel Graham are not exactly chopped liver out in Denver, btw. My point is that Cassel did a lot of things that proved he was a great QB that had nothing to do with his wr's. Also, the pats O-line allowed the second most sacks in the NFL last year, Cassel is simply a great young player. He has the moxy, the stats and the wins to prove this. he's not better than Cutler, but he is just as good in his system as Cutler was in Shanny's.-
i don't think peyton has been surrounded by the best talent, i don't think wayne would be a pro bowl receiver without him, if daniel graham was so good why did the pats let him leave?
So what? Lots of guys make the pro bowl. Has Cutler ever gone 11-5? Cassel had better numbers than Cutler last year. Cassel had pro-bowl type numbers last year. Did Farve have a great year last year? He mad the pro bowl, right?
Moss was terrible the year before he got to NE in Oakland....it's not all Moss. Why was he rejuvenated? If your going to tell me that organzing the best O in the history of game is not a big deal you are clearly unwilling to use logic, stats and facts in your argument. You Billick point is just perplexing so I'm going to leave that one alone. McDaniel's also helped to coach a rookie QB to an 11-5 record with 14 starters on Ir in the second hardest devision in the game....not bad.
a lot don't make the pro bowl at 25
moss was rejuvenated because he knew he was playing for a winner, that motivated him
my point about billick is he led the number 1 O before the pats, his offense were never good in baltimore, great coordinators don't make great coaches
why does mcdaniels get all the credit for the pats O, i thought belichek was the "genius"
mcdaniels wasn't leading their O when they won super bowls
Of course you think about it if you run a different system and you have a guy who you know that is a better team player and he is just as capable off putting up pro bowl numbers in your system. Do you even watch Cassel play, because he had a pro bowl year last year. If Moss was the reason for this, why didn't he make the pro-bowl?
yeah i saw cassel play, i saw my steelers force him into several turnovers ;)
moss didn't make the pro bowl for the same reason cassel didn't, others had a better year ie cutler yeah i know favre made it too but that was based on his name, i don't think cutler is a bigger name than cassel
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I don't think peyton has been surrounded by the best talent, i don't think wayne would be a pro bowl receiver without him, if daniel graham was so good why did the pats let him leave?
Wayne, Harrison, Dallas Clark, Gonzo, Addai, Edge numerous pro-bowl offensive linemen....what more do you want? The pats let Graham go because he wanted to much $$. They could not afford to keep him.
a lot don't make the pro bowl at 25
moss was rejuvenated because he knew he was playing for a winner, that motivated him
my point about billick is he led the number 1 O before the pats, his offense were never good in baltimore, great coordinators don't make great coaches
why does mcdaniels get all the credit for the pats O, i thought belichek was the "genius"
mcdaniels wasn't leading their O when they won super bowls
Agreed but Cassel had pro-bowl numbers last year.
Moss is not the only reason Matt Cassel is a good player. Infact Moss dropped a lot of balls last year that would have padded Matt's stats. Moss is great, but he had a "good" year last year. Brandon Marchal is a stud, btw...whats with this "woe-is-me" shit with Cutler, ha-ha.
Bil belichick was a defensive coordinator
Belichick is a genius which he has proven many times over. The guy is one of the best ever, period. He has 5 rings. The fact that he had as much confidence as he did in Josh proves to me that he is a solid coach. I didn't say that Josh would be a great coach, I said that his O was one of the best ever and ignoring that is ridiculous.
McDaniel's wasn't leading their O when they won super bowls
I know. He HELPED lead them when they went 16-0 and 11-5 after the best QB in the biz went on IR in the first game. Again, what more do you want. Guys get head coaching gigs doing a lot less than Josh has done.
moss didn't make the pro bowl for the same reason cassel didn't, others had a better year ie cutler yeah i know favre made it too but that was based on his name, i don't think cutler is a bigger name than cassel
No one even knew who Matt Cassel was until he started. Cassel had better numbers than Cutler this year.
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No one even knew who Matt Cassel was until he started. Cassel had better numbers than Cutler this year.
I certainly didn't know anything about him. Great talent evaluation by the Pats, with both him and Brady.
Regarding Cassel v. Cutler last year, here is how they stack up:
Cassel
327 of 516 for 3693, 63.3 percent, 21 TDs and 11 INTs
Cutler
384 of 616 for 4526, 62.3 percent, 25 TDs and 18 INTs, Pro Bowl
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I certainly didn't know anything about him. Great talent evaluation by the Pats, with both him and Brady.
Regarding Cassel v. Cutler last year, here is how they stack up:
Cassel
327 of 516 for 3693, 63.3 percent, 21 TDs and 11 INTs
Cutler
384 of 616 for 4526, 62.3 percent, 25 TDs and 18 INTs, Pro Bowl
Pretty even numbers there....Cutler threw 100 more times which makes the yards pointless to look at...I would add that Cassel was a "rookie" and went 11-5 in a much harder devision. Cutler has never won. Again, my point is not that Cutler is not a great QB....my point is that I could see why Josh would go after Cassel. He put up pro-bowl numbers in a patriots system.....the system Josh is going to run. Also, how do you know Cutler and Josh just don't get along in general? Thats a factor also.
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I certainly didn't know anything about him. Great talent evaluation by the Pats, with both him and Brady.
Regarding Cassel v. Cutler last year, here is how they stack up:
Cassel
327 of 516 for 3693, 63.3 percent, 21 TDs and 11 INTs
Cutler
384 of 616 for 4526, 62.3 percent, 25 TDs and 18 INTs, Pro Bowl
I gotta go with Matt Cassel if i was starting a franchise...based on those numbers. Picks loose games
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I gotta go with Matt Cassel if i was starting a franchise...based on those numbers. Picks loose games
Not to mention Cassel was a "rookie" and his team ended up 11-5 in a much better devision. Cutler had a losing record, but he did go to the pro-bowl. All I'm saying that is if your a Patriots coach, starting a Patriots system, you might look at a guy who was pro-bowl caliber for you in the Patriots system.
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Not to mention Cassel was a "rookie" and his team ended up 11-5 in a much better devision. Cutler had a losing record, but he did go to the pro-bowl.
so did farve, and Rivers (who i cant stand) had a better year at qb to me...he would go top of the list to me
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Wayne, Harrison, Dallas Clark, Gonzo, Addai, Edge numerous pro-bowl offensive linemen....what more do you want? The pats let Graham go because he wanted to much $$. They could not afford to keep him.
Agreed but Cassel had pro-bowl numbers last year.
Moss is not the only reason Matt Cassel is a good player. Infact Moss dropped a lot of balls last year that would have padded Matt's stats. Moss is great, but he had a "good" year last year. Brandon Marchal is a stud, btw...whats with this "woe-is-me" shit with Cutler, ha-ha.
Bil belichick was a defensive coordinator
Belichick is a genius which he has proven many times over. The guy is one of the best ever, period. He has 5 rings. The fact that he had as much confidence as he did in Josh proves to me that he is a solid coach. I didn't say that Josh would be a great coach, I said that his O was one of the best ever and ignoring that is ridiculous.
I know. He HELPED lead them when they went 16-0 and 11-5 after the best QB in the biz went on IR in the first game. Again, what more do you want. Guys get head coaching gigs doing a lot less than Josh has done.
No one even knew who Matt Cassel was until he started. Cassel had better numbers than Cutler this year.
why does peyton not get credit for making these guys better, edge kinda fell off the map when he left wouldn't you say?
cassel had welker too, who made the pro bowl
cutler isn't 'woe is me' he just wants respect and when you are a young pro bowl qb you are in a position to make demands
belicheck is the head coach and he has the final decision on everything, he had a lot of confidence in crennel too and i like his resume more than mcdaniels ;)
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Pretty even numbers there....Cutler threw 100 more times which makes the yards pointless to look at...I would add that Cassel was a "rookie" and went 11-5 in a much harder devision. Cutler has never won. Again, my point is not that Cutler is not a great QB....my point is that I could see why Josh would go after Cassel. He put up pro-bowl numbers in a patriots system.....the system Josh is going to run. Also, how do you know Cutler and Josh just don't get along in general? Thats a factor also.
I'd also add that Cassel had a much better supporting cast and a much better team, on both sides of the ball.
There could very well be a personality conflict, but I can't really see them not being able to get along as a factor, because the relationship was strained before they ever met.
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I'd also add that Cassel had a much better supporting cast and a much better team, on both sides of the ball.
There could very well be a personality conflict, but I can't really see them not being able to get along as a factor, because the relationship was strained before they ever met.
Who knows, but I do agree with you that this is a big fucking mess at this point. Not sure why Mc D didn't just suck it up for the year and try to trade him later. I get why he did what he did, but I dont get the latest meeting where he was a dick to Cutler.....weird.
At least play the kid so the fans dont want to burn you at the stake.
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Who knows, but I do agree with you that this is a big fucking mess at this point. Not sure why Mc D didn't just suck it up for the year and try to trade him later. I get why he did what he did, but I dont get the latest meeting where he was a dick to Cutler.....weird.
At least play the kid so the fans dont want to burn you at the stake.
Yep. I heard someone on the radio (Clayton?) saying that McDaniels is giving himself a very short leash and better not lose a lot of games this coming season.