Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Hendrix on May 27, 2005, 03:27:06 AM
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Here are some Photos of Dorian,Cutler has a lock on second place at MrO but if Dorian was at his best and competing who would come second.Ronnie would still be King or would he be?.
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judging from dorian's series of black eyes, lots of people have been beating him.
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More.
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(http://www.getbig.com/pics/arnold/2005/expo/yates.jpg)
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You would think that a multiple MrO would stay in shape(BIG)especially if his trying to sell his own supplement line.
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You would think that a multiple MrO would stay in shape(BIG)especially if his trying to sell his own supplement line.
maybe he cant take roids anymore or he will die.
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FYI, that's Fux on this rear lat spread picture
and Dorian wouldn't place in the top 5 at the Olympia nowadays
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he wouldt plae atall if he enterd in the shape he is just now... but if Dorian started his career just now he would place top 6 it would be a battle between Cutler,Coleman and Yates...
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You would think that a multiple MrO would stay in shape(BIG)especially if his trying to sell his own supplement line.
Why is there always one whiner who has to make this comment.
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1993 Yates was awesome.
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Dorian's condition was light years ahead of Jays has ever been.
I didnt like his gut but his condition was unique - looks like he was carved out of stone.
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It's NOT Dorian on the 5:th pic. It's JP Fux.
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Dorian's condition was light years ahead of Jays has ever been.
I didnt like his gut but his condition was unique - looks like he was carved out of stone.
Agreed.
Dorian's so called "grainy" condition and dryness was one his strengths. If Cutler could ever attain that level of conditioning (somewhat unlikely) and retain his mass, there could well be a new Mr. O.
As a side note, Cutler did get very ripped at the 2004 ASC, but lost a lot of size and looked flat.
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It's NOT Dorian on the 5:th pic. It's JP Fux.
Sorry about that i was not playing close attention.Anyway i deleted it.Why is there always one whiner who has to make this comment.
I think it is a fair assesment that if you are promoting a supplement line as Dorian is you must look the part.With Dorians marketing of his own supplements it is perplexing that he is not in good shape, the only exscuse is if he has a medical condition
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I think Jay could beat Dorian. Jay is 5'9 and weighs 275lb on stage. Thats 2 inches shorter than Dorian and 20lbs heavier.
Jay cutler is a better version of Nasser with a MUCH better back. We all know that Nasser gave Dorian a run for his money in 95, 96, and 97.
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Since when did we start throwing around competitors' weights as if that had any relevance to how they look onstage?
Who gives a fuck if Jay weighs 20 lbs. more than Dorian did? That doesn't mean shit unless he looks better. The bigger Jay has gotten, the more he has obliterated the lines and small details that he once had.
Maybe bodybuilding judges really do have a "bigger is better" mentality these days, which is pretty sad if they do.
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In Dorian best shape and size he weighed approx 267 pounds and i doubt Cutler was 20 pounds heavier.
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maybe he cant take roids anymore or he will die.
many other past bbers still looks good from healthy eating, steady lifting, and probably HRT treatment. Dorian looks like he eats chips all day. Lee Haney looks like he trains 5 day a week still.
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Blah he's done everything he needed to in the sport, he's been massive, he's won the top crown many times. Why is it so hard to imagine that he couldnt' be bothered holding on to some poxy shape (poxy compared to what he was). Its like playing to 100,000 people and then going back to playing in bars.
Life is short and bodybuilding is a time consuming one.
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When you invest vast amounts of money in a product supplements image is eveything Dorian should resemble a powerfull bodybuilder if he can not do this for personel reasons or medical he should sign a Pro to help market them.
At university i learnt image is everything in marketing and Dorian looking 200 pounds in ordinary shape would sell x amount of product or if Dorian was in fantastic shape he would sell 4x time amount of product.
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in person at an event, anyone who meets him is going to be a real fan (attending a BBing show) who understands that the gear does most of the work, and will prob try his product just to get to visit his stand and have a pic taken.
But 99% of that product is going to be sold at GNC and Vitamin Worlds across the USA to ppl who haven't seen getbig or met him in person and still believe he looks like he did in 93, the image they'll likely have on the package and marketing materials.
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The lat spread pic IS Dorian- someone said it was Fux. Anway, Jay and Dorian are 2 different men- if the judges were looking for freaky vascularity with hardness, Dorian would win hands down. Jay could win too depending on what the judges were looking for.
As far as how Dorian looks now, only think I would suggest is getting a tan!. Guys give Dorian a break- I'm sure he doesnt' cycle anymore and looks good for his age and not being "on". It's funny how guys like Dorian get slammed on the board when they quit roids and then guyslike Don Youngblood get slammed because they took them when they were too old..? Give everybody a break guys and be fair.
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cutler could never beat him based on his graininess alone.
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I admit its not fantastic business sense. But its ethical and it could well be that he's more interested in being with is family and doing things like that then busting himself day in day out to push units.
Not everybody wants to be like muscletech.
Besides, his product is mostly marketed on quality, rather than brutes lying about being 1200% more efficient on creatine, sugar and water mixes.
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in person at an event, anyone who meets him is going to be a real fan (attending a BBing show) who understands that the gear does most of the work, and will prob try his product just to get to visit his stand and have a pic taken.
But 99% of that product is going to be sold at GNC and Vitamin Worlds across the USA to ppl who haven't seen getbig or met him in person and still believe he looks like he did in 93, the image they'll likely have on the package and marketing materials.
Very true,i stand corrected. ;D
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In Dorian best shape and size he weighed approx 267 pounds and i doubt Cutler was 20 pounds heavier.
Agreed. And it's patently absurd to say an in-shape Dorian wouldn't place in the top 6 today. In his day, the top 6 was more competitive than it's been in several years. Other than Jay, Ronnie and Dex, who today could consistently beat Shawn, Flex, Kevin, Nasser and Dillett at their respective bests?
-Prof. Lodz
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When you invest vast amounts of money in a product supplements image is eveything Dorian should resemble a powerfull bodybuilder if he can not do this for personel reasons or medical he should sign a Pro to help market them.
Actually in this case image is not everything, Dorian Yates Approved trades on his achievements as a bodybuilder..... in case you've forgotten he won it six times..... what exactly would be the point in signing some no mark pro who hasnt won an Olympia to market this product?
Why would a former MrO sign any other pro apart from himself to market his product?.....that would seem like a step down dont you think?
All over this supplement range it says Dorian Yates 6 times Mr Olympia and has a photo of him in his prime......i think its marketed just fine.
(i bet you're one of those fellows who'd want to see a bloated 300lb Kamali on the label instead?)
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Ditto, Yates has achieved so much in BB, it would be idiocy not to use himself to promote his product, regardless of how he looks today. Btw he looks old, not out of shape..
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Actually in this case image is not everything, Dorian Yates Approved trades on his achievements as a bodybuilder..... in case you've forgotten he won it six times..... what exactly would be the point in signing some no mark pro who hasnt won an Olympia to market this product?
Why would a former MrO sign any other pro apart from himself to market his product?.....that would seem like a step down dont you think?
All over this supplement range it says Dorian Yates 6 times Mr Olympia and has a photo of him in his prime......i think its marketed just fine.
(i bet you're one of those fellows who'd want to see a bloated 300lb Kamali on the label instead?)
No i see 240s point and accept that Dorian is conducting his supplement buisness wisely i just jumped the gun when i saw that piture of Dorian gaunt and very small by his standards, but 240 brought up the point that probaly 1% have or will see that piture and the legacy of multiple MrOs will be a very strong selling point i was looking at it with tunnel vision.As i said before i stand corrected.
As far as King Cow Kamali on the label absoloutly not,i have a feeling Kamali will be working for Mc Donalds and living in his mothers basement when Barbera gives him the flick.
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One word.. GRAINY.
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Dorian wins
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You would think that a multiple MrO would stay in shape(BIG)especially if his trying to sell his own supplement line.
He's in shape, just not roided to the max.
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As far as I know Dorian Yates approved does sponser athletes (Andy Bolton is 1) and Cutler comes nowhere close to Yates
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jay.. would beat him soundly.. no contest
jay has heem beat on every bodypart except back....
better abs..better arms..delts better chest...
and also much fuller looking...
no contest
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As far as I know Dorian Yates approved does sponser athletes (Andy Bolton is 1) and Cutler comes nowhere close to Yates
He sponsors a boxer in England named Ricky Hatton....If you havent heard of him you will soon because he is gonna fight some big fights here in the states soon, I think he is a welterweight...Dude is a little menace in the ring...
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I think Jay could beat Dorian. Jay is 5'9 and weighs 275lb on stage. Thats 2 inches shorter than Dorian and 20lbs heavier.
Jay cutler is a better version of Nasser with a MUCH better back. We all know that Nasser gave Dorian a run for his money in 95, 96, and 97.
Bro , Nasser in his prime was a match for anyone ,you make it seem like Diesel had no comp, when in fact the years he was king ,he had way more comp. than R.C. Cutler couldn't touch Dorian , maybe size-wise but definitely not condition-wise & I'm talking Dorian's pre-injury physique.
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is that so LLES
ok condition appart...
aside from back name me a bodypart dorian has better than jay...
tsk...
some people believe the hype waaay too much..
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is that so LLES
ok condition appart...
aside from back name me a bodypart dorian has better than jay...
tsk...
some people believe the hype waaay too much..
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He sponsors a boxer in England named Ricky Hatton....If you havent heard of him you will soon because he is gonna fight some big fights here in the states soon, I think he is a welterweight...Dude is a little menace in the ring...
Little manace in the ring eh? Like Dennis the Menace? He looks like he's 12 years old.
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most definately
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If Dorian and Cutler competed in the same ERA, they'd have similar size and Dorian would just have better conditioning.
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Just so everyone knows, THIS is the pic of Fux that keeps getting passed off (incorrectly) as a Dorian pic:
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/dy65.jpg)
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Just so everyone knows, THIS is the pic of Fux that keeps getting passed off (incorrectly) as a Dorian pic:
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/dy65.jpg)
Thank you. I was going to point that out myself.
This picture IS Dorian:
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30855.0;id=28475;image)
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i think it wouldnt even be close if jay and dorian competed.
to this day, even ronnie in 2k3, no one has matched yates conditioning with his mass and desnity. he is the hardest and most dense bb EVER. ronnie is bigger but his conditioning ain the same when he won the O in 98.
yates got bigger but was still in the same shape ever year.
dorian dominated the sport when the competition was at the greatest its ever been. you had shawn, flex, kevin, nasser, dillet all in their prime. i like jay, but with that foursome, i dont know if jay could even beat them, let alone yates.
jay is big and in good conditioning. but he doesnt even come close to yates. please.
for the guys who've been following the sport for only a couple of years, it may appear that jay could beat dorian, but for those of us who've been following it since yates was the man, we know better. you havent read the reports or heard other competitors (who could easily beat jay) say how dominate dorian was.
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Ronnie in 2K3 ;)
(http://www.flexonline.com/mro/final_men_bb/images/ddd0109.jpg)
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is that so LLES
ok condition appart...
aside from back name me a bodypart dorian has better than jay...
tsk...
some people believe the hype waaay too much..
calves, foreams, triceps and hamstrings to name a few...
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to this day, even ronnie in 2k3, no one has matched yates conditioning with his mass and desnity.
I disagree - Ronnie at the 2001 Arnold was in better condition (striations everywhere) with just as much mass- but his shape was lightyears ahead of Dorians:
(http://www.dennis-james.com/Gallery/01ac/images/full/djames_AC04a.jpg)
The fact is, that dorian, even at his best, had a super wide waist:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/diablo86/93%20olympia/dorian_yates_flex_wheeler_.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/diablo86/93%20olympia/dorian_yates_shawn_ray_flex_wheeler.jpg)
Please note that this is NOT an attempt to start another 550 post Ronnie versus Dorian thread! :) It is just an attempt to present the facts! - Dorian's mass with density HAS been equalled, if not surpassed.
But regardless, I still think Dorian would destroy Jay - Dorian has a way better back, about equal arms, better calves, abs, chest etc. Dorian's lat spreads and back shots alone would win him enough points over Jay to take him.
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Please note that this is NOT an attempt to start another 550 post Ronnie versus Dorian thread! :) It is just an attempt to present the facts! - Dorian's mass with density HAS been equalled, if not surpassed.
But regardless, I still think Dorian would destroy Jay - Dorian has a way better back, about equal arms, better calves, abs, chest etc. Dorian's lat spreads and back shots alone would win him enough points over Jay to take him.
I agree totally with Hulksters reasoning Cutler would lose Convincling to Dorian.
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Dorain and Jay at their best would be too close to call. Jay 2001 and Doz 93 or 95. I would edge towards Dorian. As we all know, they both look better than Ronnie at their best.
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Little manace in the ring eh? Like Dennis the Menace? He looks like he's 12 years old.
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Ya that pic must have been before he got on Yates approved...ahah....He is for real though 38 -0 and he has fight against kostya Tszyu on June 5th for the light welterweight belt.....exciting fighter and proably the popular athlete from England right now...If you feel like spending the 50 bucks for pay perview you wont disapointed..Great fight its gonna be
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calves, foreams, triceps and hamstrings to name a few...
to name a few huh.. why not name the rest.....hahahahah...or were u feelin generous...
he doesnt beat jay on calves.... or "foremans"!! (u werent scraping the barrel at all)
jay has him on calves quads shoulders ..triceps..biceps...ches t...abs...
u do the math...
all dorian had that was phenomenal was a big back.. and condition..
thats all....
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Ya that pic must have been before he got on Yates approved...ahah....He is for real though 38 -0 and he has fight against kostya Tszyu on June 5th for the light welterweight belt.....exciting fighter and proably the popular athlete from England right now...If you feel like spending the 50 bucks for pay perview you wont disapointed..Great fight its gonna be
Could end up being the fight of the year.
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is that so LLES
ok condition appart...
aside from back name me a bodypart dorian has better than jay...
tsk...
some people believe the hype waaay too much..
Aside from the back, ok , how about calves, legs ( JC has some some weird looking wheels) Delts, ect......... Like I stated size-wise , yes , but conditioning no , no , no & hell no!!! Why do you think Dorian won so many O's? Aside from size ( pre-injury) no-one could even get close to the conditioning that he could. The man looked like granite. I like how you say aside from conditioning. Like everyone can achieve the look Dorian had. If that's the case then Fux should have won. JC would lose too much size trying to get that hard. Looks like you believe the hype way too much.
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The lat spread pic IS Dorian- someone said it was Fux. Anway, Jay and Dorian are 2 different men- if the judges were looking for freaky vascularity with hardness, Dorian would win hands down. Jay could win too depending on what the judges were looking for.
As far as how Dorian looks now, only think I would suggest is getting a tan!. Guys give Dorian a break- I'm sure he doesnt' cycle anymore and looks good for his age and not being "on". It's funny how guys like Dorian get slammed on the board when they quit roids and then guyslike Don Youngblood get slammed because they took them when they were too old..? Give everybody a break guys and be fair.
Exactly. Why should Dorian stay on? His supplment company is already succesful, he is a millionair, and he has his health. What would he gain by staying huge and juiced??
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Could end up being the fight of the year.
KostaTszyu is a fellow Australian citizen though he was born in Russia, he is training like an animal when he gave a press conferance the other day he had a black eye from all the sparring he is doing, but was talking tough,I bet Kosta takes him in 6 rounds.
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I disagree - Ronnie at the 2001 Arnold was in better condition (striations everywhere) with just as much mass- but his shape was lightyears ahead of Dorians:
(http://www.dennis-james.com/Gallery/01ac/images/full/djames_AC04a.jpg)
The fact is, that dorian, even at his best, had a super wide waist:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/diablo86/93%20olympia/dorian_yates_flex_wheeler_.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/diablo86/93%20olympia/dorian_yates_shawn_ray_flex_wheeler.jpg)
Hulkster when you say things like Ronnie has matched Dorians Condition, your credibility immediatly goes out the window for anyone who has followed the sport. The same is true when you bring light to the fact that Dorian had a wide waist. Go to the Arnold, Olympia or any other major show and ask 100 people who has the biggest GH gut in the history of the sport. 95% will say Ronnie Coleman, 0% will say Dorian.
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Exactly. Why should Dorian stay on? His supplment company is already succesful, he is a millionair, and he has his health. What would he gain by staying huge and juiced??
A Bodybuilder. ;D
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Jay is my favourite pro around, but to say his calves are better than Dorians were is nothing short of stupidity. Dorian has the best shaped calves of anyone up to his time and had size to match, Jay has the best of the current crop but thats it
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Ya that pic must have been before he got on Yates approved...ahah....He is for real though 38 -0 and he has fight against kostya Tszyu on June 5th for the light welterweight belt.....exciting fighter and proably the popular athlete from England right now...If you feel like spending the 50 bucks for pay perview you wont disapointed..Great fight its gonna be
LMAO ;D
E
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Hulkster makes bad analogies , especially using Yates vs Ray & Wheeler as refference to having a big gut , now first let me state Yates' gut was distended and he had a naturally " wide " waist , however in that pic Shawn Ray is about 205lbs and Flex is about 220lbs max , Yates outweighs Ray by 50lbs and Flex by about 37lbs so thats not 100% fair , check out this pic of Yates at 228lbs his waist compares very favorably to Ray & Wheeler at around the same weight.
I've never really been a fan of Cutler's phyisque , Yates does have the edge on calves , I would say triceps , and back , not to mention V-taper , which is clearly evident in the ab-thigh pose , and the latspreads , and Yates has much better balance , and you could break a bodybuilder down part for part but what really matters is how they look in the mandatory poses and in my opinion Yates simply outclasses Cutler.
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Jay, Ronnie and Dex, who today could consistently beat Shawn, Flex, Kevin, Nasser and Dillett at their respective bests.-Prof. Lodz
Don't believe the hype. Only one person mentioned has consistently defeated Shawn, Flex, Kevin, Nasser, and Dillett: Ronnie ; not Jay, not Dex. Jay cheated his way into second place in 2001, and has recieved a series of gifts ever since. But more importantly, Jay could not, would not defeat Yates. Take a look at any Cutler back shots, he has always had a lack of detail, and conditioning problems in the lower region.
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so
u really belive...
dorian... with one arm...
beat paull dillet shawn... kevin
etc.. legitimately...
uh huh yeah right....
all u have to do is compare bodyparts...
dorian beats all of these guys on ONE or two body parts..
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one if were countin dillet specifically..
he had amazing calves...
so dorian only beat him on back...
rest of physique.... lights out...
bbing judges are full of shit...
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Yeah, Dorian was insanely grainy..but Jay should be righ there or bette rin muscularity..except for Back..Dorians Back would crush Jays IMHO...
Dorians weakness was his arms. But that didnt stop him!'
8)
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his biceps did stop him... but the judges didnt...
culter cruses him on pecs.... shoulders..
has better quads....
and better abs...
or dont those body parts count... ::)
dorian had and ugly physique..
but a good back.. and great conditioning...
shawn kevin flex...
have superior physiques..
imo
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Hulkster when you say things like Ronnie has matched Dorians Condition, your credibility immediatly goes out the window for anyone who has followed the sport.
So does yours when you forget what Ronnie looked like back before he had a gut:
(http://www.mundogym.com.ar/Secciones/Deportes/fotos/culturimo/Coleman/coleman11.jpg)
Go to the Arnold, Olympia or any other major show and ask 100 people who has the biggest GH gut in the history of the sport. 95% will say Ronnie Coleman, 0% will say Dorian.
Okay, so just because many people are ignorant of the past somehow gives credibity to your argument:
(http://www.emusclemag.com/webimages/sandows/yates/1_lrg.jpg)
I remember how bad Yates looked. Ronnie has a gut ontop of a narrow waist. Dorian had a gut ontop of a WIDE waist. Ronnie's situation is much better.
Now, back to Jay versus Dorian!:
Dorian (as much as I am not a fan) would kill Jay. I think he looks better in most of the mandatories (except for maybe the front double bi).
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Jay, 2005, would beat Dorian. However, Jay also has almost a decade of technology and gear in his favor, that Dorian did not have to draw upon. Put them both at their peak at the same time with the same gear, and Dorian's graininess would have made Cutler look soft. Imagine Dorian with that same level of graniness, 30 pounds heavier?
He'd be unreal.
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thats a suppose... 240
im talkin based on how they looked... its a speculations whetehr dorian could have been 30lbs heavier with that condition.. i mean look at his waiste at 240 - to 260?????
are dorian arms better than jays? no
are his legs better than jays ? no
are hs shoulders better than jays? no
are his traps better than jays? no
are his biceps better than jays? no
does he have better calves? arguable not a definete
does he have better quads.. no
does he havebetter hams? arguable
does he have a better back yes
....
do the math
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dorian yates won kevin shawn paul nasser.. because the judges let him...
he didnt have better bodies than ANY of them... better back and conditioning .. yes...
like i said
bb judges are full of shit like a crab
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agreed with mesomorph, although i would say that dorian only has jay on lat spread, not the back double bi.
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Hulkster when you say things like Ronnie has matched Dorians Condition, your credibility immediatly goes out the window for anyone who has followed the sport.
::)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=25207.0;id=20765;image)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=25207.0;id=20793;image)
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i agree yates today would beat dorian at his peak.
it's like comparing coleman to arnold. of course coleman wins. but in the same era, arnold would find a way to win. he beat sergio, who was a genetic god greater than coleman.
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So does yours when you forget what Ronnie looked like back before he had a gut:
(http://www.mundogym.com.ar/Secciones/Deportes/fotos/culturimo/Coleman/coleman11.jpg)
I admire Ronnie but Flex had better asthetics and proportions but he lost soley on back and hamstring comparisons where Ronnies coditioning was insane equal or better than Yates his 98MrO coditioning was insane just look at his hamstrings and back not a hint of moisture its a wonder he did not drop dead of dehydraytion.
The point i am trying to make is Ronnie MrO98 was a match for Dorians conditioning and in my opinion exceeded it,Flame me if you must but just look at the photo objectivly or show me a photo of Dorian that exact same pose as dry as Coleman.
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I admire Ronnie but Flex had better asthetics and proportions but he lost soley on back and hamstring comparisons where Ronnies coditioning was insane equal or better than Yates his 98MrO coditioning was insane just look at his hamstrings and back not a hint of moisture its a wonder he did not drop dead of dehydraytion.
The point i am trying to make is Ronnie MrO98 was a match for Dorians conditioning and in my opinion exceeded it,Flame me if you must but just look at the photo objectivly or show me a photo of Dorian that exact same pose as dry as Coleman.
Sorry, Hendrix, but I already tried that route with the Dorian fans. I challenged them long ago to find two Dorian pics in contest shape that were as good as these two:
(http://www.mundogym.com.ar/Secciones/Deportes/fotos/culturimo/Coleman/coleman11.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Coleman08.jpg)
and they all conveniently ignored the challenge.
The Dorian fans got soundly defeated in the massive Ronnie vs. Dorian thread, but they can't admit that the current champ (pre gut- at his best) was better than Dorian..
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Here's a great picture of Yates for ya.
(http://ironage.us/yabbse/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=9856.0;id=13069;image)
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Sorry, Hendrix, but I already tried that route with the Dorian fans. I challenged them long ago to find two Dorian pics in contest shape that were as good as these two:
(http://www.mundogym.com.ar/Secciones/Deportes/fotos/culturimo/Coleman/coleman11.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Coleman08.jpg)
and they all conveniently ignored the challenge.
The Dorian fans got soundly defeated in the massive Ronnie vs. Dorian thread, but they can't admit that the current champ (pre gut- at his best) was better than Dorian..
Ronnie is in good condition in those photos but Yates is stil miles ahead IMO. In the famous black and white photos he is light years ahead.
YOur challenge was readily accepted an you were proven wrong. Everyone agree to this accept you. That fact is Ronnie at his best condition is nowhere near dorians condition. See the B and W photos and there is your proof.
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Everybody always raves about Dorian and the black and white photos. He looked nothing like that on contest day.
E
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Everybody always raves about Dorian and the black and white photos. He looked nothing like that on contest day.
E
Most contest are done in Color these days are they not?
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YOur challenge was readily accepted an you were proven wrong.
No, if you go back and reread the thread, the Dorian fans were silenced quite abrubtly by the video and pics of Ronnie in insane condition in the battle for the olympia 2001. His quads were cut to ribbons.
Everyone agree to this accept you.
If that is true than why was there a 550+ post thread? ::)
See the B and W photos and there is your proof.
Not so fast- Ronnie has some pretty impressive black and white pics too ya know:
(http://www.bbcenter.sk/images/gallery/arnolds_classic/ronnie_coleman/coleman03.jpg)
(http://www.bbcenter.sk/images/gallery/arnolds_classic/ronnie_coleman/coleman02.jpg)
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Most contest are done in Color these days are they not?
He looked worse at the 93 O then he did in those pics. His chest for example never looked that thick on contest day. It has nothing to do with the color of the pics.
E
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No, he couldn't. Dorian's mass, in relation to bone structure, was greater than Cutler's, and Dorian presented such mass in much better conditioning. Actually, when it comes to conditioning, NO ONE can match Dorian, not even eight years after his retirement. Dorian's dryness, come contest day, remains the "gold standard", which all bodybuilders try to emulate. As far as natural structure, muscle belly insertion points, etc, I would say Dorian and Jay are roughly equal, genetic-wise(both highly gifted).
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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i agree yates today would beat dorian at his peak.
WTF?
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Hulkster you want two photos of Yates in contest shape that match or surpass those pics of Coleman , here you go. ;)
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His conditioning was fantastic
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Again
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His conditioning was fantastic
Yes, it is. But Ronnie's condition is certainly not "nowhere near Dorian's".. I mean seriously, give me a break..
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/comp986.jpg)
The Dorian fans are simply forgetting that the modern day bloated Ronnie was once striated as hell, stripped of fat, and hard as a rock.
They make it sound like Dorian had no skin while Ronnie looked like the Stay Puffed Marshmallow man.. ::)
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Just so everyone knows, THIS is the pic of Fux that keeps getting passed off (incorrectly) as a Dorian pic:
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/dy65.jpg)
fuck u hulkster...this pic is not fux..its definetely yates......prove that this pic is fux and not yates......no way fux had a back that perfect....that pic is 100000000000000000000000 0000000000% the back of dorian'THE SHADOW'yates
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f**k u hulkster...this pic is not fux..its definetely yates......prove that this pic is fux and not yates......no way fux had a back that perfect....that pic is 100000000000000000000000 0000000000% the back of dorian'THE SHADOW'yates
That pic is Fux and you prove its Yates wanker :P
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Yes, it is. But Ronnie's condition is certainly not "nowhere near Dorian's".. I mean seriously, give me a break..
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/comp986.jpg)
The Dorian fans are simply forgetting that the modern day bloated Ronnie was once striated as hell, stripped of fat, and hard as a rock.
They make it sound like Dorian had no skin while Ronnie looked like the Stay Puffed Marshmallow man.. ::)
Hulkster I dont mean to flame you personally, and I am not a Dorian Fan anymore than a Ronnie fan. But IMO Dorian at his best Condition was light years ahead of big ron even before the gut. The pic you posted of ROn when he supposedly had amazing condition, he doenst even have Straitions in his chest
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Hulkster I dont mean to flame you personally, and I am not a Dorian Fan anymore than a Ronnie fan. But IMO Dorian at his best Condition was light years ahead of big ron even before the gut. The pic you posted of ROn when he supposedly had amazing condition, he doenst even have Straitions in his chest
I'd have to agree here....whether you like his physique or not, Yates condition at the '93 Olympia was probably the best anyone has come into a show....hard as granite, striations everywhere and DRY DRY DRY
...that was a different era though and i dont know what those guys were doing for contest prep back then but it worked better than whatever they do nowadays. Many in that line up displayed a level of conditioning, hardness and dryness that todays pros struggle to get near...
...in my opinion the '93 Olympia was one of the all time classics, true legends Yates, Flex and Ray in probably their all time best conditions...
.... a shame that to get in that sort of shape you had to borderline death, as Benaziza and Munzer found out to their cost.
Ronnie gets in astounding condition considering his size but the early 90s were the golden age for conditioning and dryness.
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I think Jay could beat Dorian. Jay is 5'9 and weighs 275lb on stage. Thats 2 inches shorter than Dorian and 20lbs heavier.
Jay cutler is a better version of Nasser with a MUCH better back. We all know that Nasser gave Dorian a run for his money in 95, 96, and 97.
who said jay outweighed big yates by 20 odd pounds.......fuck u royalty..............dor ian reportdly weighed at a massive 273lbs,he was one of the biggest guys that in 1997 on that olympia stage.so jay and yates r more or less of the same weight with dorian havin that trademark granite hard thickness that even ronnie cannot achieve................. ...END OF STORY
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f**k u hulkster...this pic is not fux..its definetely yates......prove that this pic is fux and not yates......no way fux had a back that perfect....that pic is 100000000000000000000000 0000000000% the back of dorian'THE SHADOW'yates
That pic is Fux dude. You can see it in his legs and lats...
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::)
still havent seen any dorian pics that match the two hulkster posted none...
for god sakes the man had poor biceps...
what was out the ordinary on dorian's physique except his back....
dorian winning paul flex... shawn... etc was BULL SHIT!!
lets see a pic of dorian matchin these picsronnie displayin these for size impressiveness and symetry and vascularity
(http://www.zonamuscular.com/albums/album15/coleman01.jpg)
(http://www.zonamuscular.com/albums/album15/coleman27.jpg)
(http://kulturysta.com/moj_html/galeria_slaw/kulturystyka_mezczyzni/fot_r_coleman/ronnie_coleman1.jpg)
(http://www.zonamuscular.com/albums/album15/coleman32.jpg)
(http://www.muskelpower.de/service/bilder/coleman_gr.jpg)
...
please post pics of dorian have anywear near that seperation... vascularity size an symetry...
let me break it doen...
when u post pics of dorin with bigger and better arms... a narrower waiiste... better delts... better traps... better glutes ..better hamstrings.... better chest...
then you have an argument...
until then you are just believeing the hype...
all dorian that is better than coleman is calves.. and conditioning....
no more words...
post the pics with the specs i asked for!
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Ronnie has no scrotum.
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LOL , ok i've got a few pics that are much more impressive than ronnie.
oooh ouch.... sorry for owning you.
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lol. few more.. ouch...
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awww.. these 2 are some of my favorites
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The pic you posted of ROn when he supposedly had amazing condition, he doenst even have Straitions in his chest
Whic pic are you refering to? Ronnie in his pre-gut stage had a chest that was striated as all hell:
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/bwcoleman0edecbab.jpg)
Despite the popular contrary belief, comparing Ronnie at his best (pre-gut) to Dorian at his best is like comparing apples to oranges.
Ronnie's physique has something that Dorian did not: muscle shape and an amazing taper (and good vascularity).
For example, compare these pics:
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/comp9921.jpg)
(http://digilander.libero.it/gruppociak/dy91.jpg)
both are in contest shape. Dorian just doesn't have the shape that Ronnie does, and that makes a big difference in how good a physique looks.
Ronnie's taper was so much better than Dorian's, it makes his phyisque esp. when viewed head on from the front or the back look much more impressive:
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/comp012.jpg)
see how much more impressive this looks than that shot of dorian's relaxed back shot at the 93 O?
The reason is taper and conditioning.
Dorian just didn't have the natural muscle shape (especially in the arms and quads) or the X-frame that Ronnie did:
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23903.0;id=18365;image)]
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/comp0029.jpg)
Compare Ronnie's back double bi to Dorian's and you will quickly see that his taper is so much better, and the muscle quality and shape are far superior. Size wise they are the same, but that is where it ends.'
(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/974182876.jpg)
ronnie's quads in the pre-gut stage had such better shape and definition than Dorians.
(http://www.bigroncoleman.com/media/1999_03LG.jpg)
If Ronnie stood next to dorian in his pre-gut stage, his taper would make Dorian run off the stage!
(http://mywebpages.comcast.net/janspot/coleman-yates-lat-spread-rear-relaxed.jpg)
Even Ronnie post-gut still has better muscle shape than Dorian...
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lights out game over....
especially in thatin that last pic... comparing the 2
dorian still havent posted any pics to top any of the photos posted of ronnie...
ronnie is simply out of this world...
yates is ..a-ight
wide waiste.. poor biceps...
how did he beat dillet shawn flex... kevin...
only the full of shit judges know... and will take that secret to their graves...
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Leave it to Hulkster to turn this back into a Yates VS Coleman thread , and he keeps digging for things to justify he notion that Coleman is superior , like Coleman has superior shape , conditioning and taper .
You wanted two pictures of Yates that compared to Coleman's conditioning , I gave you five , and those pic from the 1993 Mr Olympia I would say slightly edge out those pics of Coleman , look at the side tricep shot , you can clearly see his serattus , intercostles and obliques and well as his abs , and in that pic of Coleman you really can't see much with the exception of his abs.
I think you're high when you say Yates has no taper , look at that pic of him doing the front latspread , his V-taper is out of this world even with his " wide " waist
And when you say Coleman has superior muscle shape thats debateable , I would say Coleman has much better shape to his biceps than Yates , Triceps no , maybe a slight edge in roundness on the delts but nothing dramatic , although Coleman has a bigger chest I don't feel it looks any better than Yates'
forearms I would say Yates is better , back about even with perhaps a slight edge going to Coleman on width , midsection , Coleman has the narrow waist and medicore abs , Yates has a wider waist with sharp abs , serattus , intercostles and obliques , I would give the edge to Yates even with the wider waist although Coleman's has become the worse of the sport ,
glutes lol get serious , Yates has shown ripped glutes and who cares ? and Coleman's ass is like his gut the biggest in the sport and that distracts from most poses , hamstrings you could give Coleman a slight edge , Yates isn't bad at all , quads you can give to Coleman although they're not as great as everyone claims , but he does have the edge on sweep , Calves we know we know .
It all boils down to who would present the greatest overall package and who would look the best in the mandatory poses and in my opinion Yates would beat Ronnie Coleman , like he has before , Yates has much better balance , and muscle proportion , he has 99% of Coleman's size & width and fewer weaknesses.
A picture is worth a thousand words , like this one of Yates owning Coleman
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nd
lol what are u blind...
besides thatpic u show the coleman part is shaded...
and yet his delts still own dorian...
...
remember even shawn said it and he competed against both.... chris lund also said it...
cmon man... if u compared flex to coleman... then i could see a debate...
dorian is just not in that class for starters... v taper... muscle shape and size and vascularity... coleman has him beat on...
its a no brainer man....
dorian has an ugly shape... compared to guys like flex coleman shawn dillet... cormier aaraon baker... mike francios to name a few....
he fits in the same boat as... gunter.... he just doesnt have a round full look...
70% of his olympia wins were BULLSHIT!!!
nasser
owned him on evry single bodypart ..aside from back in 1997... easy.... easy....
yet the judges gave it to dorian...
bullshit
gunter ...
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Here is a comparison of them doing the same pose:
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30855.0;id=28652;image)
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/comp986.jpg)
And Dorian gets owned yet again!!
Now that the re-debate is over and Ronnie has won yet again, lets get back to the original topic at hand:
Dorian vs. Cutler!!!
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Funny Yates beat Coleman 5 times and how many times did Coleman beat Yates? thank you ! NONE. ;)
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Funny Yates beat Coleman 5 times and how many times did Coleman beat Yates? thank you ! NONE. ;)
Exactly, end of thread. Yates 5, big ron 0. Shawns opinion is valid but dont forget flex and Levrone have both stated that Dorian is the best ever.. and Chris Lund is a washed up flex photographer trying to hype the current champ.
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Exactly, end of thread. Yates 5, big ron 0. Shawns opinion is valid but dont forget flex and Levrone have both stated that Dorian is the best ever.. and Chris Lund is a washed up flex photographer trying to hype the current champ.
So you guys are honestly saying that Ronnie Coleman in 1991-6 was at the same level as Ronnie Coleman in 1998-2001??
WTF?? ::)
That is like saying that Momo Benaziza could beat Dorian at any time just because he beat a practically pre-pubescent Yates in 1990 at the NOC. ::)
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So you guys are honestly saying that Ronnie Coleman in 1991-6 was at the same level as Ronnie Coleman in 1998-2001??
WTF?? ::)
That is like saying that Momo Benaziza could beat Dorian at any time just because he beat a practically pre-pubescent Yates in 1990 at the NOC. ::)
When Momo beat Dorian Momo looked phenominal, carved from granite, and wings inserting into his hips. That day Momo was the better man, that One(1) time. Now is memory serves me correct, Dorian beat Ron five(5) times. There is a HUGe difference between one and Five. Oh yah Gunter beat ronnie aswell, Now did yates ever loose when he was Mr O?
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That day Momo was the better man, that One(1) time. Now is memory serves me correct, Dorian beat Ron five(5) times. There is a HUGe difference between one and Five.
And I suppose you think there is NO difference between Ronnie's physique back then and when he was winning Mr. Olympia titles? ::)
Oh yah Gunter beat ronnie aswell, Now did yates ever loose when he was Mr O?
Pretty much the entire bodybuilding world views the 1994 Mr. Olympia as the end of the golden age of bodybuilding (when Dorian won with a gut, wide waist, torn bicep, and soft all over). And he beat a career best shape Shawn Ray too.. :'(
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And I suppose you think there is NO difference between Ronnie's physique back then and when he was winning Mr. Olympia titles? ::)
Pretty much the entire bodybuilding world views the 1994 Mr. Olympia as the end of the golden age of bodybuilding (when Dorian won with a gut, wide waist, torn bicep, and soft all over). And he beat a career best shape Shawn Ray too.. :'(
Well I do agree with you that in 94 Ray should have beaten Dorian and mabey even Levrone too. On all the other points I guess we can agree to disagree
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I am not doubting Yates coditinioning it was out of this world.But please show me competition a shot of Dorian in the exact same pose as Coleman as dry and conditioned as in this photo
Funny Yates beat Coleman 5 times and how many times did Coleman beat Yates? thank you ! NONE. ;)
None of the photos you have displayed in colour have matched Coleman and as far as Yates beating Coleman 5 times i bet in those defeats Coleman was not on Half the drug regiem Yates was on.Yates started the whole HGH,IGF and so on with his good freind Dan Duchaine.
People go on about the black and white photos of Dorian in supreme shape but Photographers do this to highlight contrasts,the image is clearer and shows more detail,if they were did in colour they would not be nearly as impressive.Again i plead show me Dorian in the same pose in comp shape that dry.If you do i will happly admit defeat.
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People go on about the black and white photos of Dorian in supreme shape but Photographers do this to highlight contrasts,the image is clearer and shows more detail,if they were did in colour they would not be nearly as impressive.
Very good points. Art Zeller was famous for his shots of Arnold in Black and white.
there are very few black and white shots of Ronnie, but the few that are out there are very impressive.
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I am not doubting Yates coditinioning it was out of this world.But please show me competition a shot of Dorian in the exact same pose as Coleman as dry and conditioned as in this photoNone of the photos you have displayed in colour have matched Coleman and as far as Yates beating Coleman 5 times i bet in those defeats Coleman was not on Half the drug regiem Yates was on.Yates started the whole HGH,IGF and so on with his good freind Dan Duchaine.
People go on about the black and white photos of Dorian in supreme shape but Photographers do this to highlight contrasts,the image is clearer and shows more detail,if they were did in colour they would not be nearly as impressive.Again i plead show me Dorian in the same pose in comp shape that dry.If you do i will happly admit defeat.
Um did you see the pics ND posted on this thread?? Yate's condition in those photos is superior to colemans IMO
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I agree that Dorian was probably more juiced than Ronnie when they were competing together. Think about it - Ronnie is only two years (two lousy years) younger than Dorian, and Dorian looks like his dad.
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Hulkster you want two photos of Yates in contest shape that match or surpass those pics of Coleman , here you go. ;)
They do not surpass the two photos of Ronnie in colour or Black and white,while Yates back is incredibly impressive you cannot seriously say they are better of the photo of Coleman with incredible dryness and detail.
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They do not surpass the two photos of Ronnie in colour or Black and white,while Yates back is incredibly impressive you cannot seriously say they are better of the photo of Coleman with incredible dryness and detail.
Agreed. It is one thing to state that Dorian had an amazing back - even #2 in history could be said without much debate, but better than Ronnie's? I think not.
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Um did you see the pics ND posted on this thread?? Yate's condition in those photos is superior to colemans IMO
Yes i did and i disagree,ND did not show a photo that i and Hulkster put up where Dorians conditioning is as good or surpasses Colemans back double bicep pose the photos are in colour and black and white.Its a subjective sport and people will disagree i was a serious Flex fan In MrO98 and 99 and Coleman beat him on conditioning alone and in my opinion Coleman surpassed Dorians conditioning in those events.Anyway this will be my last post on the subject,Here are the photos again be objective and you might see my opinion as correct or not?.
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Dorian and Coleman.
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(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/bluecolemanbacks.jpg)
Lights out budday!!!
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30855.0;id=28674;image)
ND I am confused as to why you think this pic shows great condtion.
Look at it compared to a contest shot of Ronnie's back double bi:
(http://www.dennis-james.com/Gallery/01ac/images/full/djames_AC02e.jpg)
Not even close.
Dorian has a great back (obviously) but his claim to fame has always been his lats and his christmas tree. His back double bi was far overrated. Simply compare his to Ronnie's and you can clearly see that people give credit to Dorian for having a much better back double bi than he actually does. He is overrated in this pose..
(http://digilander.libero.it/mikementzer/Yates08.jpg)
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=25207.0;id=20793;image)
Ronnie's back double bi is the best in history IMO (Flex Wheeler's is a close second - Ronnie's extra thickness gives him the slight edge)
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30855.0;id=28674;image)
I should rephrase the text under this pic in my post above. Yes, Dorian shows condition (in the delts) but it is NOT a particularly impressive shot of Dorian, simply because, as I showed above, I don't think his rear double bi was as great as everyone seems to think that it is.
(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/976994047.jpg)
Sorry, but this does not look like the greatest back of all time like many claim.. Maybe its the arms that ruin the pose, but it doesn't look anything like this:
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/comp0029.jpg)
And by the way:
(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/976994107.jpg)
How in the hell can people say that the guy standing in the middle is better conditioned and has better muscle quality than Ronnie?? How did dorian win some of his later Olympia's looking this bad??
1993 was one thing - he looked good there. But in some of these shots (I think from 1996 or 7) he barely looks like he should be in the top 6!! Sorry, but the pics don't lie :-\
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Dorian was great.
but you guys are in denial if you think he would beat ronnie coleman. honestly, just admit it.
ronnie's shape was superior.
ronnie's conditioning was just as good if not better.
ronnie's arms are better.
ronnie's legs are bigger and better(except calves of course)
the key here is SHAPE, look at the rear double bis. there is no comparison whatsoever
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they're not in denial....
they are delusional..
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The bottom line is Dorian was champ when there was a superior line up, when there were about 5 or 6 other guys worthy of being champ. Flex, Ray, levrone, Dillet, Nasser ect. the only man these days who is a threat to Ron is Jay. ALso Dorian Beat Ron 5 times.
This debate is similar to the debate of " who was a better hockey player, lemueux or Gretzky". Were never gona change each others minds so why bother trying?
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Dorian beat Ronnie when he was in his prime, one day someone that Ronnie is spanking right now will eclipse him and people will start a whole new debate on whether Ronnie could beat ............. at their respective bests. Its entertaining as everyone has a view, just because you think yours is right doesnt mean you have to force people into believing it also.
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Hulkster wanted two photos of Yates in competition that equalled Coleman's condition in those pics , and if you take a look at any of those pics they equal and I'll go so far as to say his condition at the 1993 Mr Olympia surpasses Colemans .
Ronnies arms aren't better than Yates thats a myth , Ronnies biceps are better than Yates , Yates has better triceps & forearms .
And Hulkster if you're going to use the best picture of Coleman as an example of his better back double bicep shot , you have to use Yates' best picture not one where he is not his best , but thats your M.O. you post subpar pics of Yates when comparing to Coleman to prove a point get angry when people post pics of Coleman with his gut hanging out lol pure hypocrisy , Coleman's back double bicep shot being the best in the history of the sport? I don't think so , not when he has a giant ass and no calves.
This back double bicep shot of Yates has a few things Coleman's doesn't like much better balance between upper & lower body , much better proportion between muscles , obviously Coleman's biceps are better , but his giant ass and weak calves hurt him in this shot .
Yates beat Coleman 5 times and when he beat him in 94 Coleman was smallish , in 95 Coleman came into his own and started to win , in 96/97 he started to come into his own and place real high in contests and beat Flex , so stop acting like it was when Momo beat Yates , Yates was 220lbs when Momo beat him Coleman was at least near his best weight of 250lbs when Yates beat him in 96/97 .
And lets entertain for a moment Coleman has " superior " muscle shape to Yates , big deal , Flex Wheeler had superior muscle shape then both Yates & Coleman and Yates always beat Flex . so much for that .
Yates beat the best at thier best because he was simply more complete , sans 94 , he had size , condition , balance , proportion , symmetry , and he was complete from head to toe , front to back , and he simply looked better in the 7 mandatory poses than the rest of the guys.
In 98 almost everyone on the Pro circuit beat Ronnie Coleman previously , the only reason Coleman won against Flex , was beacuse he was off , he won because Flex wasn't 100%
right out the box Yates was a winner he was only beat a handfull of times , while Coleman was beat month in month out by everyone , and like it was stated he was beat while being Mr Olympia , in their respective peaks in thier all time best shapes Dorian Yates was beat Ronnie Coleman , like he beat the best of the best of the 90s , simply because he has fewer flaws and is more complete.
Bottom pic , Coleman 1996 Mr Olympia at around 250lbs
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ummmmmmm,
I'm sure the title of this thread had something to do with comparing Cutler to Dorian...
...... I must be seeing things.
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Hulkster wanted two photos of Yates in competition that equalled Coleman's condition in those pics , and if you take a look at any of those pics they equal and I'll go so far as to say his condition at the 1993 Mr Olympia surpasses Colemans .
Ronnies arms aren't better than Yates thats a myth , Ronnies biceps are better than Yates , Yates has better triceps & forearms .
And Hulkster if you're going to use the best picture of Coleman as an example of his better back double bicep shot , you have to use Yates' best picture not one where he is not his best , but thats your M.O. you post subpar pics of Yates when comparing to Coleman to prove a point get angry when people post pics of Coleman with his gut hanging out lol pure hypocrisy , Coleman's back double bicep shot being the best in the history of the sport? I don't think so , not when he has a giant ass and no calves.
This back double bicep shot of Yates has a few things Coleman's doesn't like much better balance between upper & lower body , much better proportion between muscles , obviously Coleman's biceps are better , but his giant ass and weak calves hurt him in this shot .
Yates beat Coleman 5 times and when he beat him in 94 Coleman was smallish , in 95 Coleman came into his own and started to win , in 96/97 he started to come into his own and place real high in contests and beat Flex , so stop acting like it was when Momo beat Yates , Yates was 220lbs when Momo beat him Coleman was at least near his best weight of 250lbs when Yates beat him in 96/97 .
And lets entertain for a moment Coleman has " superior " muscle shape to Yates , big deal , Flex Wheeler had superior muscle shape then both Yates & Coleman and Yates always beat Flex . so much for that .
Yates beat the best at thier best because he was simply more complete , sans 94 , he had size , condition , balance , proportion , symmetry , and he was complete from head to toe , front to back , and he simply looked better in the 7 mandatory poses than the rest of the guys.
In 98 almost everyone on the Pro circuit beat Ronnie Coleman previously , the only reason Coleman won against Flex , was beacuse he was off , he won because Flex wasn't 100%
right out the box Yates was a winner he was only beat a handfull of times , while Coleman was beat month in month out by everyone , and like it was stated he was beat while being Mr Olympia , in their respective peaks in thier all time best shapes Dorian Yates was beat Ronnie Coleman , like he beat the best of the best of the 90s , simply because he has fewer flaws and is more complete.
Bottom pic , Coleman 1996 Mr Olympia at around 250lbs
I stopped reading this the moment i read that yates arms were better than colemans. WTF? This is yet another classic nugget of ND wisdom that defies convential thought and popular opinion. Yates whose arms are KNOWN to be weak relative to the rest of his physique and his contempories (fer christsakes the man had a torn bicep - does this mean nothing to you ND) are inferior to colemans in every singel way possible. You could make a case for his triceps being sharper but ronnies comes back atcha with superior shape. And if i read some comment about Ronnies "small" forearms I'll have a shit!
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lol...
yep good ol.. nd ::)
relentless
.. the only thing dorian had on ronnie is calves...
dorian had a wide waist ..not great arms....
actualt there is nothin knock out about him except back and calves....
ronnie is a collectio of knockout parts...
i have never looked at dorian and been like who...
like i have been when i see coleman... dillet...
and he doesnt have the pretty lines.. that shawn flex and cormier have...
like i said.. how he one all those olympias .. is a mystery to me....
ifbb judges are full of shit..
i feel sorry for flex.. kevin nasser shawn....
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And lets entertain for a moment Coleman has " superior " muscle shape to Yates , big deal ,
WTF? So if muscle shape doesn't matter, what does? Size alone? You yourself have campaigned against the "size is the only thing that matters" crowd for a long time now, and now you join the club.. ::) Ronnie's arms are more shapely, (you admit that), have more definition (the biceps are split and the triceps are STRIATED) and more vascular. So how are they better??
And yeah, the comment that Ronnie's arms are not as good as Dorian's overall is great:
(http://digilander.libero.it/gruppociak/dy78.jpg)
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/bwcoleman0edecbab.jpg)
Look how much better they are.. ::)
I'll tear apart the rest of ND's post later tonight.
And I still don't understand exactly how the fact that Dorian beat Ronnie 5 times (hell, at one of the contests, Ronnie placed DEAD LAST) has anything to do with comparing the two at their bests.
And also, Ronnie was sure as hell not 250 pounds at the 1996 Olympia..
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ND's comments pertaining to bodybuilders being compared to Ronnie are so bizzare that I am now convinced that it really has nothing to do with who we are comparing Ronnie to. He just has it out for Ronnie for some unknown reason.
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I said plain and simple Coleman has better biceps , and thats about it , his forearms don't match his biceps/triceps , and Yates has an edge on triceps and Yates forearms match his arms better than Colemans , I'm obviously talking about the prebicep tear .
And you made the claim Ronnie has superior shape , I didn't and lets entertain the idea that he does , it wouldn't matter because he beat Flex who has better shape than both .
And yes muscle shape is important , and its ironic you are stressing this issue because Coleman has oddly shaped triceps , Yates doesn't , Coleman has oddly shaped calves , Yates doesn't , Coleman has oddly shaped abs , Yates doesn't , How about Coleman's oddly shapped giant ass that can be seen in his front poses ? Yates doesn't have that , I entertianed the idea that his shape was superior I never agreed with it .
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Its obvious Yates has the superior shapped triceps
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Its obvious Yates has the superior shapped triceps
No. There not called horseshoes for nothing. when was the last time you saw a horseshoe shaped like the triceps on yates arms?
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@nd
i like how u picked a bad pic of ronnie to support ur tricep argument...lol
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@nd
i like how u picked a bad pic of ronnie to support ur tricep argument...lol
Its tuff to find good pics of Coleman ;)
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Ronnie has better biceps than Yates, Yates has him in Triceps and Forearms.
And it was not ND who turned it into a Coleman is God thread, I believe the culprit as allways was Hulkster.
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I stopped reading this the moment i read that yates arms were better than colemans. WTF? This is yet another classic nugget of ND wisdom that defies convential thought and popular opinion. Yates whose arms are KNOWN to be weak relative to the rest of his physique and his contempories (fer christsakes the man had a torn bicep - does this mean nothing to you ND) are inferior to colemans in every singel way possible. You could make a case for his triceps being sharper but ronnies comes back atcha with superior shape. And if i read some comment about Ronnies "small" forearms I'll have a shit!
Yates Biceps were weak one year you moron. The arm consists of Biceps, tri's and Forearms. Yates owns Ronnie on Tri's and forearms and therefore has better arms.
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Its obvious Yates has the superior shapped triceps
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/diablo86/ripped%20to%20shreds%20d2/dfsfasd.jpg)
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(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=25207.0;id=20765;image)
(http://www.fitplus.cz/allpic/mf/f_164.jpg)
Ronnies and Dorian's Most musculars in their best condition
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(http://www.irongodz.com/irongod/attachment.php?attachmentid=86&stc=1)
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Yates Biceps were weak one year you moron. The arm consists of Biceps, tri's and Forearms. Yates owns Ronnie on Tri's and forearms and therefore has better arms.
WTF are you talkin about. Yates biceps were al;sways poor even pre-op. They were torn for 96 and 97! Quit talkin garbage, "yates owns ronnie" what trash
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/diablo86/ripped%20to%20shreds%20d2/dfsfasd.jpg)
;)
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Cutler obviously
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Just so everyone knows, THIS is the pic of Fux that keeps getting passed off (incorrectly) as a Dorian pic:
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/dy65.jpg)
(http://www.irongodz.com/irongod/attachment.php?attachmentid=153&stc=1)
Yates KILLS Fux on rear lat spread!
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747
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They both suck.
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They both suck.
what about Cutler at 290?
(http://www.bbszene.de/html/mro2004_battle/cap047.jpg)
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one of Ronnies best pics....Back and Triceps are huge.........
(http://www.thebiguniverse.com/coleman/20041.jpg)
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Its tuff to find good pics of Coleman ;)
its not if you know where to look!
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/rc65.jpg)
;)
ronnie's tris looked pretty good when he was in his pre-gut shape.
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its not if you know where to look!
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/rc65.jpg)
;)
ronnie's tris looked pretty good when he was in his pre-gut shape.
Oh yes I'm not denying his triceps are huge or they don't look pretty good , but Yates simply has better triceps
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The Shadow
(http://img244.echo.cx/img244/6391/thesupershadow6jm.jpg)
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WTF are you talkin about. Yates biceps were al;sways poor even pre-op. They were torn for 96 and 97! Quit talkin garbage, "yates owns ronnie" what trash
Dorians bi's were never his strongest part but aside fromt he year he tore them they were never "poor". Rons calves are an example of a "poor" or lagging part. As for the tri's and forearms, The pics dont lie, Ronnie is owned by Yates.
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no way yates had better arms overall than ronnie.
(http://img245.echo.cx/img245/7825/ronc9ij.jpg)
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Yates has him on Tris and Forarms. Ron wins on bi's
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Yates has him on Tris and Forarms. Ron wins on bi's
still cant see how Ronnie would lose to yates when comparing the arms from the front double bicep shot, even though it is refered to as a bicep shot, it is probably the best shot to show completeness of the arms, i.e. big bis forearms, and hanging tris
Even if yates was a super hero
(http://img244.echo.cx/img244/6391/thesupershadow6jm.jpg)
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Ripped at 5'9 275lbs
(http://www.flexonline.com/contests/04Olympia/Men/images/mpre0088.jpg)(http://www.flexonline.com/contests/04Olympia/Men/images/mpre0098.jpg)(http://www.flexonline.com/contests/04Olympia/Men/images/mpre0100.jpg)
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Ronnie has no scrotum.
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Yates looked like crap. His Olympia wins were without a doubt the biggest joke in the history of bodybuilding.
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Yates looked like crap. His Olympia wins were without a doubt the biggest joke in the history of bodybuilding.
He won on the basis of his stone hard conditioning. Same reason why Rich Gaspari consistently placed in the money during the 1980s. It was a level of hardness rarely seen in bodybuilding.
Otherwise, they both had structures extremely lacking. :-\
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Dorian's structure was not lacking - narrow hips, length of torso and legs in proportion (Ronnie's torso is too short), his legs were extremely well shaped and balanced and not just huge lumps like Ronnie's, a proper pec line which Ronnie just doesn't have. Real calves rather than a mass of synthol and scar tissue. Yes, his biceps were weak but that was it.
To say Dorian's Olympia wins were a joke is ridiculous. Ray or Levrone should have perhaps won in 94 but it was close among the three, Dorian was streets ahead in 93 and 95, plenty good enough in 96 and 97 with 92 being close and the top four all in top shape.
Clearly, Franco winning in 81 is the biggest joke ever.
Anyway, I thought this thread was about Jay?
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Dorian's structure was not lacking - narrow hips,
WTF?? Dorian's waist was famously wide! - mainly because of his genetically pre-determined hip width..
(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/976994107.jpg)
I agree that his wins were not a "joke" (except for 1994) but looking at some pics from 1996/7 (like the one above) I wonder how he really did win.. I mean there are many lesser bodybuilders who look MUCH better from the front than this...
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I agree that his wins were not a "joke" (except for 1994) but looking at some pics from 1996/7 (like the one above) I wonder how he really did win.. I mean there are many lesser bodybuilders who look MUCH better from the front than this...
I think it's already been explained that his conditioning was what pushed him over the top. Granted his structural flaws made it debateable whether he was better than others who came in at their best, but his conditioning was unmatched, thus it pushed him to a whole 'nother level......
It was his "ace" that trumped everyone else.......it was his lasting legacy.....
DIV
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I think it's already been explained that his conditioning was what pushed him over the top. Granted his structural flaws made it debateable whether he was better than others who came in at their best, but his conditioning was unmatched, thus it pushed him to a whole 'nother level......
It was his "ace" that trumped everyone else.......it was his lasting legacy.....
DIV
Yes, but he was not very conditioned in 1994, 96 and 97. If you want to see conditioning, look a little to the right of Dorian in that pic.. ;)
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Yes, but he was not very conditioned in 1994, 96 and 97. If you want to see conditioning, look a little to the right of Dorian in that pic.. ;)
I'm speaking about his conditioning in general, not in specific years at specific contests......
You wanted an answer, I gave you my answer.
His conditioning was unmatched by any of the other kids who competed against him. He's the only bastard you could describe as "grainy" during his tenure as Mr. Olympia. The muthafucka displayed more grain than a beer distillery..... :P
Let the shit die, nugga...
DIV
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Ripped at 5'9 275lbs
(http://www.flexonline.com/contests/04Olympia/Men/images/mpre0088.jpg)(http://www.flexonline.com/contests/04Olympia/Men/images/mpre0098.jpg)(http://www.flexonline.com/contests/04Olympia/Men/images/mpre0100.jpg)
That's got to be the lamest 275 lb. bodybuilder on the planet. Nothing impressive about that at all. How that blocky shape with no detail is considered no 2 in the world baffles me.
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no way yates had better arms overall than ronnie.
(http://img245.echo.cx/img245/7825/ronc9ij.jpg)
Show me one picture where Dorian even apporaches this combination of size and shape
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Show me one picture where Dorian even apporaches this combination of size and shape
Here ya go!:
(http://www.emusclemag.com/webimages/sandows/yates/1_lrg.jpg)
;D
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Show me one picture where Dorian even apporaches this combination of size and shape
Okay, I'll be serious and show a pic of Dorian actually posing:
(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/974026580.jpg)
oops. After all, he did beat a career best Shawn Ray in this shape! ;)
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That's got to be the lamest 275 lb. bodybuilder on the planet. Nothing impressive about that at all. How that blocky shape with no detail is considered no 2 in the world baffles me.
When you suck Uncle Joe's dick, anything is possible.
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When you suck Uncle Joe's dick, anything is possible.
Exactly........I think GroinK is getting PoinKed by the Weider clan..... :D
You can't diss Cutler unless you have a better physique than you do, there are probably only a few people in the world at that weight who can lay claim to that....
DIV
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That's got to be the lamest 275 lb. bodybuilder on the planet. Nothing impressive about that at all. How that blocky shape with no detail is considered no 2 in the world baffles me.
1993
(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/starprofile/Dorian_Yates.jpg)
2004
(http://www.ronnie.cz/_img/Fotogalerie/1277_2_1.jpg)
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That pic of Jay is taken at an angle which makes his sumo-wrestler waist look like Brian Buchanan's.. :-\
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That pic of Jay is taken at an angle which makes his sumo-wrestler waist look like Brian Buchanan's.. :-\
My thoughts exactly, that's a real good shot of Jay.
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1993 ;)
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1994 when he beat a career best Shawn Ray , still good enough to win
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The torn bicep can only be seen dead-on in the front double bicep shot and to be honest it doesn't look as bad as when Tom Platz tore his
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On Cutler vs. Dorian
Could Cutler beat Dorian? Probably not, but maybe. 2003 Ironman Jay vs. 1993 Dorian would be a good contest. Doz obviously would be harder and grainier, but you can't deny that Jay is the better athlete from the front and, unlike Nasser, doesn't have a small back. At the end of the day, I predict conditioning would win out and Dorian would take it. From a pure muscular development angle, Jay is the better man. Better lower half of the body, shoulders, traps, tighter abs.
On Dorian vs. Ronnie
Never ends, really. Who had the better conditioning? I would say Dorian. The man is one of the only guys save Munzer/Momo/Paco who look like their skin was just painted on top of muscle tissue. The reason Ronnie can look as though his conditioning is better is because he has frightening genetics for separation and striations. If you've seen his offseason pictures, his arms are separated like crazy and the glutes show striations even at his heaviest.
However, prime Dorian could never, and I mean NEVER, match Ronnie's shape. Yes, Dorian could have the wider spread, but Doz's waist is also thicker and he didn't have nearly the quad sweep of Ron. Ronnie's front relaxed at the 2001 Arnold seriously looks photoshopped.
End of the day? Ronnie, but just barely.
Oh, and anyone who uses competitions to judge the better bodybuilder might as well say Mike Katz is better than Flex Wheeler because Flex wasn't a bodybuilder at all when Katz was competing. ::)
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Dorian would always win simply because he is the most complete bodybuilder and he doesn't have some weaknesses that others do and he simply looks better in the mandatory poses compare to Cutler & Coleman.
Everyone raves about Coleman's shape , he does edge Yates out on quad shape at his best 2001 Arnold Classic and bicep shape and delts , and he was blessed with narrow hips & waist , but I digress , Coleman has oddly shapped triceps , and abs even at thier best wern't that great , his glutes and GIANT and calves have poor shape and I say Yates edges him out in all those aspects , and Yates combo beat Flex Wheeler who in my opinion outclassed Coleman in shape .
Yates has 99% of Coleman's size , better balance & proportion , equal or slightly better conditioning .
Front Double Biceps - I would give this to Coleman just because of his better biceps
although it would be close because you can see his lack of calves and balance in this pose
Rear Double Bicep - I would give this to Yates , although Coleman has an edge on this pose due to slightly better separation you can clearly see his giant ass and weak calves
Front Latspread - Yates , he always looked better in this pose
Rear Latspread - I would say Yates again , Ronnie may have an edge on width , but again his weak calves and giant glutes would hurt him in this shot next to Yates
Side Triceps - Yates he always had an awesome side tricep shot and Coleman's triceps have a very thin side head
Side Chest - I would give this to Ronnie his weak calves can be hidden fairly well from the side and at his best Coleman has the better chest , although his overdeveloped delts hurts this shot for him somewhat
Ab-Thigh - I would give to Yates , even with the wider waist he had better abs , seratus & intercostles and he always looked good in this shot.
In my opinion Yates has an edge of posing , he has the ability to show his physique off better than Coleman , so in my opinion Yates would beat Ronnie in 5 of the 7 mandatory poses .
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Dorian would always win simply because he is the most complete bodybuilder and he doesn't have some weaknesses that others do and he simply looks better in the mandatory poses compare to Cutler & Coleman.
Everyone raves about Coleman's shape , he does edge Yates out on quad shape at his best 2001 Arnold Classic and bicep shape and delts , and he was blessed with narrow hips & waist , but I digress , Coleman has oddly shapped triceps , and abs even at thier best wern't that great , his glutes and GIANT and calves have poor shape and I say Yates edges him out in all those aspects , and Yates combo beat Flex Wheeler who in my opinion outclassed Coleman in shape .
Yates has 99% of Coleman's size , better balance & proportion , equal or slightly better conditioning .
Front Double Biceps - I would give this to Coleman just because of his better biceps
although it would be close because you can see his lack of calves and balance in this pose
Rear Double Bicep - I would give this to Yates , although Coleman has an edge on this pose due to slightly better separation you can clearly see his giant ass and weak calves
Front Latspread - Yates , he always looked better in this pose
Rear Latspread - I would say Yates again , Ronnie may have an edge on width , but again his weak calves and giant glutes would hurt him in this shot next to Yates
Side Triceps - Yates he always had an awesome side tricep shot and Coleman's triceps have a very thin side head
Side Chest - I would give this to Ronnie his weak calves can be hidden fairly well from the side and at his best Coleman has the better chest , although his overdeveloped delts hurts this shot for him somewhat
Ab-Thigh - I would give to Yates , even with the wider waist he had better abs , seratus & intercostles and he always looked good in this shot.
In my opinion Yates has an edge of posing , he has the ability to show his physique off better than Coleman , so in my opinion Yates would beat Ronnie in 5 of the 7 mandatory poses .
basically your saying that rear lat and rear double bicep could go either way. Both could go to Ronnie and then its 4 to 3 Advantage Ronnie
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No I would say Yates would get the rear latspread , simply because his back is just as wide as Coleman's and he doesn't have the overdeveloped glutes and poor calves , same with the rear double bicep , I would say Coleman has a slight edge on detail & biceps , but again his glutes & calves hurt him in any rear shots ( no pun )
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Nah. No chance does anyone beat ronnie on rear double bis shot. his calves only appear small from the front where the sheer volume of his frontal thighs really is apparent. from the back they seem more in line. Coupled with better splits, more separation, greater back width, better natural shape and a far more exaggerated v taper with equal thickness and density give ronnie the edge
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Ronnie has better chest,arms,back,quads, hams and crushes him in structure, muscle shape ,vascularity and separation. So dorians defenders point out that he has better forearms and calves,two secondary muscle groups at best. Real convincing argument. Calves and forearms don't win shows
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f**k u hulkster...this pic is not fux..its definetely yates......prove that this pic is fux and not yates......no way fux had a back that perfect....that pic is 100000000000000000000000 0000000000% the back of dorian'THE SHADOW'yates
the pic is fux. those are not yates' hams or glutes. remember, fux had the yates size, but not conditon.
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LOL , ok i've got a few pics that are much more impressive than ronnie.
oooh ouch.... sorry for owning you.
DAMN, OWNED like a red headed step child!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Ronnie has better chest,arms,back,quads, hams and crushes him in structure, muscle shape ,vascularity and separation. So dorians defenders point out that he has better forearms and calves,two secondary muscle groups at best. Real convincing argument. Calves and forearms don't win shows
Better arms ? hardly better biceps yes , not triceps or forearms , and Coleman has better shape? again in some muscles he does and others he doesn't and Yates has much better balance between muscles and his upper and lower body , I'm sorry but Coleman's massive ass and weak calves hurt any pose from the back , Coleman has small calves overdeveloped quads just poor balance through out his phsyique and I like how you say calves and forearms don't win shows apparently no calves and forearms wins shows , because Coleman gets a buy.
Calves can be seen in every pose from front to back to side to side , you really can't hide poor calves.
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747
OWNING arnold, lee and ronnie
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No I would say Yates would get the rear latspread , simply because his back is just as wide as Coleman's and he doesn't have the overdeveloped glutes and poor calves
But his back is way more detailed when viewed in the back lat spread:
(http://www.hugon0.elisa.pl/greg/galeria/clas_2001/images/a18_jpg.jpg)
Note the striations visible in the lower back. Yates rear lat spread never looked this good. And his glutes and hams ADD to the impressiveness of the pose, not detract from it.
Ronnie's front relaxed at the 2001 Arnold seriously looks photoshopped.
If you are refering to his waist size, no it isn't. Look at any pics from the contest, including the magazines: ronnie had a tiny waist and an incredible taper:
(http://www.bigroncoleman.com/media/Arnold.06_LG.jpg)
Yates would kill to have that kind of shape.
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I don't understand how anyone can think that Yates has a better rear double bi than Ronnie. The rear lat spread is debatable, but not the double bi:
(http://www.steelfitness.com/beta/photogallery/2001arnold/ronniecoleman/ronniecoleman06.jpg)
(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/976994047.jpg)
??? ??? ???
And just because Ronnie has crappy calves does not trump the fact that his entire back in the pose is better. And that should be emphasized.
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Also, I don't think that Ronnie's forearms are as bad compared to Yates as everyone says they are. Yates' forearms have no definition or vascularity:
(http://digilander.libero.it/gruppociak/dy76.jpg)
They are just big. Isn't it ironic that the people who claim that Ronnie is all size and nothing else are now claiming that Dorian's forearms are better for the very same reason? ::)
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/6xo28.jpg)
much better..
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Ronnie has better chest,arms,back,quads, hams and crushes him in structure, muscle shape ,vascularity and separation. So dorians defenders point out that he has better forearms and calves,two secondary muscle groups at best. Real convincing argument. Calves and forearms don't win shows
Exactly. Very good post.
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Coleman may slightly edge Yates on the back double bicep shot from the waist up but guess what from the waist down Coleman can't compete and you and you can't say Yates has no detail in his rear latspread look at this pic , it has just has much detail as Ronnie's , and he isn't leaning as far forward as Coleman when he does it either , and concerning the back double bicep shot to posted , thats not a good comparison , poor lighting look at this pic of Yates in the same shot and you care to explain to me what detail Ronnie has that Yates doesn't , look in the pic Yates upper & lower traps are seprated Coleman's aren't .
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Yates' forearms are more than just big
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Freaky condition , size , detail , triceps back detail , depth and muscle quality , and shredded qlutes :o
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lol coleman looks like a pile of poop
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ouch...
Just look at how dense his muscles are compared to coleman.
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.
lol
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one of the several stupidiest thread i have ever seen on getbig.
and we are page 8 of this crap, trying to compare banana and apples, or rather keyboards and cars.
Yeah this is totaly stupid, this has no purpose, like this thread.
let start a thread about steve reeves owning frank zane...
i bet all the "experts" like zachg85,narsisicdeity and other will come post some very serious crap showing how smart they are and how their arguments are valuable...
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On Cutler vs. Dorian
Could Cutler beat Dorian? Probably not, but maybe. 2003 Ironman Jay vs. 1993 Dorian would be a good contest. Doz obviously would be harder and grainier, but you can't deny that Jay is the better athlete from the front and, unlike Nasser, doesn't have a small back. At the end of the day, I predict conditioning would win out and Dorian would take it. From a pure muscular development angle, Jay is the better man. Better lower half of the body, shoulders, traps, tighter abs.
On Dorian vs. Ronnie
Never ends, really. Who had the better conditioning? I would say Dorian. The man is one of the only guys save Munzer/Momo/Paco who look like their skin was just painted on top of muscle tissue. The reason Ronnie can look as though his conditioning is better is because he has frightening genetics for separation and striations. If you've seen his offseason pictures, his arms are separated like crazy and the glutes show striations even at his heaviest.
However, prime Dorian could never, and I mean NEVER, match Ronnie's shape. Yes, Dorian could have the wider spread, but Doz's waist is also thicker and he didn't have nearly the quad sweep of Ron. Ronnie's front relaxed at the 2001 Arnold seriously looks photoshopped.
End of the day? Ronnie, but just barely.
Oh, and anyone who uses competitions to judge the better bodybuilder might as well say Mike Katz is better than Flex Wheeler because Flex wasn't a bodybuilder at all when Katz was competing. ::)
the last part of your statement is totally obsured. Comparing when Dorian and Ronnie competed agains each other is relevent because hulkster claimed that ronnie matched dorians condition when he was lighter, IE when he competed against Dorian.
How is comparing two bodybuilders who both dieted and trained for and competed in the same show the same as comparing Katz to an infant wheeler? I think you might want to check yourself back into the mental health hospital again.
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the last part of your statement is totally obsured. Comparing when Dorian and Ronnie competed agains each other is relevent because hulkster claimed that ronnie matched dorians condition when he was lighter, IE when he competed against Dorian.
How is comparing two bodybuilders who both dieted and trained for and competed in the same show the same as comparing Katz to an infant wheeler? I think you might want to check yourself back into the mental health hospital again.
No, you're wrong, sorry. Ronnie was four years away from his peak when Dorian competed against him. Look at all the photos Hulkster is using, the majority of them are from 2001. Peak Ronnie never competed against peak Doz, THAT's my point.
Ronnie lost to Fux in 1997, would anyone in their right mind claim Fux is the better bodybuilder? Ronnie lost to a guy named Thierry Pastel in 1994, which as far as I can tell was their only meeting, was HE better than Ronnie?
Ronnie peaked in one of three places depending on your personal preference, 1999 Olympia, 2001 Arnold, 2003 Olympia. None of these were near a prime Dorian. I used an exaggerated example to more clearly illustrate the point.
Was Dorian better than Ronnie in 1997? I don't really believe that, I think at that point Doz was riding on momentum, much like Ron did in 2002 and 2004.
Thus, we have to compare peaks, so 1993 Dorian and one of the above Ronnie years, I'll take the 2001 AC. Out of those two, Ronnie takes it. He just does and it's seriously foolish to deny it. Even a lot of Ironagers agree that Ronnie came with one of the best physiques ever displayed that day.
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No I would say Yates would get the rear latspread , simply because his back is just as wide as Coleman's and he doesn't have the overdeveloped glutes and poor calves , same with the rear double bicep , I would say Coleman has a slight edge on detail & biceps , but again his glutes & calves hurt him in any rear shots ( no pun )
I would bet Ronnie's calves are bigger than Dorian's. It is the shitty lack of diamond shape of his calves which give Dorian the edge. Much the same for Cutler, despite having calves which are no bigger than Ronnie's (and probably smaller judging from pics side by side).
As for Ronnie's overdeveloped glutes - you and I both know how pro BB is judged these days, and there is no such thing as overdeveloped unless synthol or implants were involved.
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Hulk you post the same pics over and over. Yet post crap shots of Doz. Ya Ronnie is impressive but also some of those pics are just that really good pics which make him look alot better than he was. If you watch the videos from those contests he is not as impressive as in those pics ( He is impressive yes... But not like on those shots ) And yes you can see his gut Evan then.
whos better? set them up in the same time frame from starting points same drugs same training and yates is better imo.
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No, you're wrong, sorry. Ronnie was four years away from his peak when Dorian competed against him. Look at all the photos Hulkster is using, the majority of them are from 2001. Peak Ronnie never competed against peak Doz, THAT's my point.
Ronnie lost to Fux in 1997, would anyone in their right mind claim Fux is the better bodybuilder? Ronnie lost to a guy named Thierry Pastel in 1994, which as far as I can tell was their only meeting, was HE better than Ronnie?
Ronnie peaked in one of three places depending on your personal preference, 1999 Olympia, 2001 Arnold, 2003 Olympia. None of these were near a prime Dorian. I used an exaggerated example to more clearly illustrate the point.
Was Dorian better than Ronnie in 1997? I don't really believe that, I think at that point Doz was riding on momentum, much like Ron did in 2002 and 2004.
Thus, we have to compare peaks, so 1993 Dorian and one of the above Ronnie years, I'll take the 2001 AC. Out of those two, Ronnie takes it. He just does and it's seriously foolish to deny it. Even a lot of Ironagers agree that Ronnie came with one of the best physiques ever displayed that day.
"Out of those two, Ronnie takes it. He just does and it's seriously foolish to deny it."
Great argument, ::)
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Yet post crap shots of Doz.
No, many shots are from the 1993 Olympia, his all-time best shape (see the shots of his midsection) and this shot:
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/dy35.jpg)
(http://www.graphicmuscle.com/photos/oly99/01.Colman.jpg)
Dorian just doesn't have the shape or vascularity to compete at Ronnie's level.
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Better arms ? hardly better biceps yes , not triceps or forearms , and Coleman has better shape? again in some muscles he does and others he doesn't and Yates has much better balance between muscles and his upper and lower body , I'm sorry but Coleman's massive ass and weak calves hurt any pose from the back , Coleman has small calves overdeveloped quads just poor balance through out his phsyique and I like how you say calves and forearms don't win shows apparently no calves and forearms wins shows , because Coleman gets a buy.
Calves can be seen in every pose from front to back to side to side , you really can't hide poor calves.
Hardly better biceps? lol Dorian's biceps had shitty peak, they sucked. We all know he showed up with no bicep and still won.
If you're going to argue against poor calves then I'll just point out Yates' poor right bicep.
I don't give a damn about calves, not everyone can have great calves.
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I find the NarcissisticDeity v Hulkster's never ending debate far more interesting than the actual Dorian v Ronnie comparison. These guys have far more staying power, tenacity and stamina than either Dozzer or Ronnie could ever hope to muster. ;D
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"Out of those two, Ronnie takes it. He just does and it's seriously foolish to deny it."
Great argument, ::)
No it is just the truth. anybody with working eyeballs can see it. I honestly don't know what the f**k you people are seeing that think Dorian is superior. Let me say that I think Dorian was an awesome bodybuilder, One of the best ever, but Ronnie IS the best ever. A year before Dorian retired he was asked who he thought was his biggest threat and his reply was "Ronnie coleman....he's a freak. The man has muscle just hanging off his body and he's only getting better." That was Doz's response BEFORE he retired. I know, I know, Narcissistic Deity....Dorian had better EARS and THUMBS
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No, many shots are from the 1993 Olympia, his all-time best shape (see the shots of his midsection) and this shot:
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/dy35.jpg)
(http://www.graphicmuscle.com/photos/oly99/01.Colman.jpg)
Dorian just doesn't have the shape or vascularity to compete at Ronnie's level.
Yeah this settles it in my mind. Even though it is just one shot it highlights quite nicley why ronnie is leagues above doz - namely sheer muscle mass, shape, seperation, vascularity and equal conditioning. Dorian is great and he was no doubt dealt the genetic badhand and has made the most of it more than most but ronnie is just on another level.
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Hulk you post the same pics over and over. Yet post crap shots of Doz. Ya Ronnie is impressive but also some of those pics are just that really good pics which make him look alot better than he was. If you watch the videos from those contests he is not as impressive as in those pics ( He is impressive yes... But not like on those shots ) And yes you can see his gut Evan then.
whos better? set them up in the same time frame from starting points same drugs same training and yates is better imo.
I was sitting in the 5th row behind the judges when ronnie won his first O and he was just as impressive in person as he was in the pics.
As for your second,even stupider point, only two years of age separate them. They have been training and using the same drugs in the same era. It's not like comparing a guy from the's 70's to a modern day bodybuilder, they are both modern day bodybuilders.
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No, many shots are from the 1993 Olympia, his all-time best shape (see the shots of his midsection) and this shot:
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/dy35.jpg)
(http://www.graphicmuscle.com/photos/oly99/01.Colman.jpg)
Dorian just doesn't have the shape or vascularity to compete at Ronnie's level.
Since when is Vascularity a criteria which the competitors are judged on???
Just look at the amazing detail in Rons Legs ::). Doeians muscle quality is far better everywhere, especially in the thighs
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No, many shots are from the 1993 Olympia, his all-time best shape (see the shots of his midsection) and this shot:
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/dy35.jpg)
(http://www.graphicmuscle.com/photos/oly99/01.Colman.jpg)
Dorian just doesn't have the shape or vascularity to compete at Ronnie's level.
You make me laugh ..................no seriously , he doesn't have the shape or vasculartity lol you find new things to cling to all the time , Ronnie has flaws Yates does not its that simple , weak calves , they are weak because they lack development , shape & size and proportion in relation to his quads , his giant overdeveloped glutes hurts his back and side poses , Coleman has poor balance through out his physique this is debateable its obvious .
And again with Coleman has better shape , in some muscles I would agree but not in all , Coleman does not beat Yates in calf shape , glute shape , ab shape , triceps , forearm shape , etc ..etc.
You say Yates didn't have the vascularity or shape to compete on Ronnies level , I say Ronnie doesn't have the balance , muscle proportion and completness front to back top to bottom to compete on Yates level , and Yates beat the best at thier best , men who were bigger , wider and had more shape , who has Ronnie beaten? a sub-par Flex in 98 , Yates was a winner right out the bat , beat Lee Haney in the musculairty round in his first Mr Olympia , and where was Coleman at his first Mr Olympia ? last place , Yates beat them all , Coleman included and his superior balance & completness coupled with his size , shape , conditioning , posing would have zero problem beat any version of Ronnie Coleman with ease.
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Tell me you not serious. Better glute shape? Damn, youre gayer than i thought. Speaking of clinging, hows about ronnies "small forearms and traps" lol
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lol sculpture, get out of middle school and grow up.
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Hulkster is scrapping the bottom of the barrel when he has to mention "ronnie has superior vascularity", something competitor are not even marked on. maney believe excessive vascularity detracts from the physique.
ND said it perfectly that Yates faced far better competition.
Ronnie of today would have trouble beating Nasser, Levrone, Dillet ect of the mid 90's
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Just look at the amazing detail in Rons Legs . Doeians muscle quality is far better everywhere, especially in the thighs
ronnie is actually not flexing his quads in that pic. Check out any pics from the same contest (99 Olympia) and you will see that his quads were amazing.
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ronnie is actually not flexing his quads in that pic. Check out any pics from the same contest (99 Olympia) and you will see that his quads were amazing.
but i suppose dorian is flexing his quads in the same pose?? ::)
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but i suppose dorian is flexing his quads in the same pose?? ::)
No, but Dorian's quads are famous for being not so great:
(http://www.cn-fitness.com/olympia2/dorian_yates_new_defalt.gif)
especially compared to Ronnies:
(http://www.flexonline.com/contests/04Dutch/Pre/images/FDBE0289.jpg)
hell, this is the 2004 Ronnie here, and he looks better in this shot than practically any that I have ever seen of Dorian, except for his crazy rear lat and lower back shots..
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Dorian's quads were weak now? lol they were FAMOUS for being not so great? , well in you mean great as in mismatched with calves and the upper body I guess you're right ::) Yates quads were excellent , his quads matched his calves and they showed excellent separation , with decent upper separation , great size especially in relation to his other muscles , you keep sinking lower & lower Hulkster , I would say Coleman edges Yates out in quads but to say his wern't so great is just nonsense.
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Ronnies quads are bigger, not better.
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Ronnies quads are bigger and in this instance better. But one thing that is rarely remarked is the development of yates thigh rods. They were the most prominent around. i can only think of one pro today with equivalent development - cormier. If you watch the mr O vids during the yates era he would tense his quads while angled outwards to let the crowd know!
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I think any pro BB could agree that Ronnie blows Dorian away.
There really is no comparison with both of them at their respective bests.
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I think any pro BB could agree that Ronnie blows Dorian away.
There really is no comparison with both of them at their respective bests.
I agree.
It is really quite simple. Ronnie carries more muscle on a superior frame. People can dissect the s**t out of them but it boils down to that.
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I agree.
It is really quite simple. Ronnie carries more muscle on a superior frame. People can dissect the s**t out of them but it boils down to that.
A superior frame? obviously you put zero thought into that statement , Coleman does NOT have a superior frame , Yates has the better structure with less flaws , at thier respective bests the about the same ammount of size.
Yates = much better muscle proportion , muscle balance , all of his muscles are balance and fit together perfectly in relation to each other
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Yes... superior frame,nitwit. As in better insertions, smaller joints, narrower hips,wider clavicles you know.... A SUPERIOR FRAME. Thw way you go on about Doz's proportion and balance you would think he had Flex's frame when it's obvious Dorian wasn't blessed with insane genetics. He had very good genetics but not like Ronnie was blessed. And that is the difference between them. They are both dedicated pro's who developed themselves to their absolute limit but ron's limit is above Dorian's. As far as balance goes, Ronnie has two working biceps to Dorian's one. and let's not forget the torn tricep either. The guy won the Olympia contest in his last year with one good arm, amazing.
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Yes... superior frame,nitwit. As in better insertions, smaller joints, narrower hips,wider clavicles you know.... A SUPERIOR FRAME. Thw way you go on about Doz's proportion and balance you would think he had Flex's frame when it's obvious Dorian wasn't blessed with insane genetics. He had very good genetics but not like Ronnie was blessed. And that is the difference between them. They are both dedicated pro's who developed themselves to their absolute limit but ron's limit is above Dorian's
Groink, Ronnie is naturally very narrow and has big joints, even in 98 possibly his best shape his knees jutted out big time. It's only since his quads got ridiculously huge that it disguised this.
His delts give him his apparantly superior shoulder width, his traps are big from top to bottom but very narrow and pinched looking in the relaxed pose and from the rear.
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Groink, Ronnie is naturally very narrow and has big joints, even in 98 possibly his best shape his knees jutted out big time. It's only since his quads got ridiculously huge that it disguised this.
His delts give him his apparantly superior shoulder width, his traps are big from top to bottom but very narrow and pinched looking in the relaxed pose and from the rear.
That's impossible I am never wrong
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Just because Dorian's quads have good thigh rods and therefore look good from the SIDE does NOT mean that they look good from the FRONT.
so, yes, they are famous for being not so great:
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/dy32.jpg)
his quads don't look that great from the front, which is the angle in which all bodybuilders show them the most frequently.
On the other hand, Ronnie's quads look great from the front:
(http://www.dennis-james.com/Gallery/01ac/images/full/djames_AC03f.jpg)
at least in his pre-gut condition.
And besides, Ronnie's thigh rods were better than Dorian's anyway:
(http://www.dennis-james.com/Gallery/01ac/images/full/djames_AC03zc.jpg)
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Yes... superior frame,nitwit. As in better insertions, smaller joints, narrower hips,wider clavicles you know.... A SUPERIOR FRAME. Thw way you go on about Doz's proportion and balance you would think he had Flex's frame when it's obvious Dorian wasn't blessed with insane genetics. He had very good genetics but not like Ronnie was blessed. And that is the difference between them. They are both dedicated pro's who developed themselves to their absolute limit but ron's limit is above Dorian's. As far as balance goes, Ronnie has two working biceps to Dorian's one. and let's not forget the torn tricep either. The guy won the Olympia contest in his last year with one good arm, amazing.
We're obviously comparing the two at their respective bests just in case you didn't know ;) the only edge Ronnie has on structure is a narrower waist & hips , I would say thier shoulderblade width is about the same , Seeing as Coleman has the edge with the waist it helps with the illusion of a much better V-taper .
What ironic is a lot of people bust Dorian's ass for winning with a torn bicep , but have no problem with Coleman winning with poor calves , his calves aren't just small in relation to his quads they lack overall development as well.
Coleman has a better structure ? Coleman has poor balance and always has , even when he was very light and now he is very heavy its worse , ontop of having poor calves he has overdeveloped quads , a giant ass that can actually be seen from the front , just poor balance.
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Far better BBers at their best were defeated by Yates, so I will have to say that Jay would be smoked.
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[
(http://www.dennis-james.com/Gallery/01ac/images/full/djames_AC03f.jpg)
This picture says it all. Not on Dorian's best day...
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[
(http://www.dennis-james.com/Gallery/01ac/images/full/djames_AC03f.jpg)
This picture says it all. Not on Dorian's best day...
I have to say that Titus looks damn good standing next to the champ there.....he is not completely dwarfed or blown away. I mean Ronnie is bigger and Craig wasnt a threat but he does look good.His thighs look great too.
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Oh yes not on his best day ::) ::)
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Yeah this settles it in my mind. Even though it is just one shot it highlights quite nicley why ronnie is leagues above doz - namely sheer muscle mass, shape, seperation, vascularity and equal conditioning. Dorian is great and he was no doubt dealt the genetic badhand and has made the most of it more than most but ronnie is just on another level.
a celebration shot of dorian with his medal around his neck is not fair to compare against a shot hit by ronnie during competition.... and for the last time, VASCULARITY is not something competitors are marked on, so why bother bringing it up? Who has more vascularity between ron and Dorian? I dunno, and I dont care since it is not something they are JUDGED on.
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Oh yes not on his best day ::) ::)
That picture says it all. Not on his damnest best day. Why ND, do you post a pic where dorian is clearly not as good as ronnie? Not only taht but you insist on comparing pics from a compettition to some black and white studio-esque shot which renders your post meaningless before any comparison should be made
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I have to say that Titus looks damn good standing next to the champ there.....he is not completely dwarfed or blown away. I mean Ronnie is bigger and Craig wasnt a threat but he does look good.His thighs look great too.
That's exactly why Craig is called "The uncrowned mr o"
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That picture says it all. Not on his damnest best day. Why ND, do you post a pic where dorian is clearly not as good as ronnie? Not only taht but you insist on comparing pics from a compettition to some black and white studio-esque shot which renders your post meaningless before any comparison should be made
Clearly not as good ? to who you and Ray Charles? get your vision checked look at the picture again and then I'll accept your apology , you might thing I posted a pic of Jason Arntz , get the hell outta here >:( even this one is better >:(
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Erm is the above pic real?
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it's a figment of your imagination.
like a successful black man.
zing.
(based upon the argument on race from other thread)
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Oh yes not on his best day ::) ::)
Exactly.
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Neither of those B&W shots beat the Ronnie pic with Titus/DJ.
Ron's got bigger traps, arms are FAR better conditioned, legs are more separated, shoulders pop out more, AND it's a contest shot.
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Neither of those B&W shots beat the Ronnie pic with Titus/DJ.
Ron's got bigger traps, arms are FAR better conditioned, legs are more separated, shoulders pop out more, AND it's a contest shot.
Same pose , differant angle , competition pic , same effect , beats Coleman ;)
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Same pose , differant angle , competition pic , same effect , beats Coleman ;)
..you've gotta be kidding me. Legs aren't nearly as cut, arms son't have the shape, smaller traps, flat chest.
Oh I forgot. Doz's calves are better. Silly me for forgetting the only ND requirement. ::)
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..you've gotta be kidding me. Legs aren't nearly as cut, arms son't have the shape, smaller traps, flat chest.
Oh I forgot. Doz's calves are better. Silly me for forgetting the only ND requirement. ::)
Its called balance , something Coleman is sevrely lacking and if you'll notice Coleman has his arms slightly higher than Yates and Coleman has bigger traps? what the f**k? and whats funny that in that pic Titus looks almost as good as Coleman and Yates outclasses both of them.
Oh I forgot Coleman doesn't have any calves and nither does Zach so that means they're not a requirement :)
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Its called balance , something Coleman is sevrely lacking and if you'll notice Coleman has his arms slightly higher than Yates and Coleman has bigger traps? what the f**k? and whats funny that in that pic Titus looks almost as good as Coleman and Yates outclasses both of them.
Oh I forgot Coleman doesn't have any calves and nither does Zach so that means they're not a requirement :)
::)
I wish I understood your severe hatred for Ronnie. Odd that you never bring up Haney or Sergio, it's all Arnie/Larry/Dorian. Hm.
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::)
I wish I understood your severe hatred for Ronnie. Odd that you never bring up Haney or Sergio, it's all Arnie/Larry/Dorian. Hm.
I don't hate anyone , in theory no one can't hate people , only things they do and I don't hate anything Coleman did , I just laugh when people on on at lenght about how great he is , its laughable , and what are you trying to elude to Zach? I don't go on about Larry , and I think Haney is leaps & bounds better than Coleman as well , just in case you were wondering ;)
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a celebration shot of dorian with his medal around his neck is not fair to compare against a shot hit by ronnie during competition.... and for the last time, VASCULARITY is not something competitors are marked on, so why bother bringing it up? Who has more vascularity between ron and Dorian? I dunno, and I dont care since it is not something they are JUDGED on.
fair enough. Then no one is EVER allowed to criticize a 2004 Ronnie gut pic that was taken backstage, because the competitors are not JUDGED BACKSTAGE.
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fair enough. Then no one is EVER allowed to criticize a 2004 Ronnie gut pic that was taken backstage, because the competitors are not JUDGED BACKSTAGE.
I can only speak for myself, but I have never critizied Ronnies midsection in the picture you speak of, and I only bring up ronnies midsection when his is being compared to Dorian. I think Ron is one of the best bodybuilders ever, even with his midsection but IMO Dorian is was better.
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(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/dy26.jpg)
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/comp9921.jpg)
Man, when you compare these guys, I don't really understand how dorian can be better. All these pics don't lie! Yes, he has better balance, but that is BECAUSE OF ONE BODYPART! The rest of his physique pales in comparison, so just because Dorian has calves doesn't make up for the fact that almost the entire rest of his physique is inferior to Ronnie! this may seem a bit exaggerrated, but look at the pics I posted!- it is only one of many that show that Ronnie's muscle shape makes his body look so much better than Dorians.
And also, since when is vascularity not judged in contests? Bodybuilders have always gained points for being vascular. Just ask Rich Gaspari.
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For you to say his enitre physique sans calves is inferior to Ronnie's is just plain nonsense , thats a moronic statement , you act like Yates is some B-list bodybuilder , you put way to much stock into Coleman seriously you do , and we've dicusssed this to death , Yates has more than just calves on Coleman , he has proportion & balance and yes in some cases better shape , cling to your , Ronnie has more striations , better vasculairty comments because your " argument " keeps getting weaker , and I've posted pleanty of pics of Coleman onstage with his gut hanging out and nice shot of Yates you posted still looks better than Coleman ;)
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(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/dy26.jpg)
Dorian looks incredible in this picture, but I give the nod to Ronnie.
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it would be interesting to have an actual poll setup to vote. Wonder if the mods can set this up??
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"And also, since when is vascularity not judged in contests? Bodybuilders have always gained points for being vascular. Just ask Rich Gaspari."
Yah Rich used to clean up during the "vascularity" round. Rich was rewarded for his incredible condition, not vascularity. Competitors are not rewarded for vascularity, I gaurentee you have never heard a judge say he gave someone extra points for vascularity. Judges have openly stated that excessive vascularity detracts from the overall physique.
Anyone remember the late Curtis Leffler(sp?) he was the most vascular dude around and he never did well in any shows.
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::)
I wish I understood your severe hatred for Ronnie. Odd that you never bring up Haney or Sergio, it's all Arnie/Larry/Dorian. Hm.
i agree...
a couple of times... i have wondered... the same thing...
simply because ronnies superiority is so blaringly obvious... its simple no contest.. flex vs ronnie.. shawn vs ronnie... dillet vs ronnie... competition
dorian is just not in that league REGARDLESS of what the iffbb judges did back in the 90's
so its apparent nd could not be argueing on fact.. but rather emotion....
and in the this scenario... all roads point to one particular emaotion..
hjust my 2 cents
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i agree...
a couple of times... i have wondered... the same thing...
simply because ronnies superiority is so blaringly obvious... its simple no contest.. flex vs ronnie.. shawn vs ronnie... dillet vs ronnie... competition
dorian is just not in that league REGARDLESS of what the iffbb judges did back in the 90's
so its apparent nd could not be argueing on fact.. but rather emotion....
and in the this scenario... all roads point to one particular emaotion..
hjust my 2 cents
I don't think it is what you guys are alluding to,although it's possible. i probably is just stubborness and also trying to get a rise out of us to keep this never ending debate alive. If you look at pics of the two of them hitting the same pose ronnie is CLEARLY the larger, more muscular person. A ten year old can see it. Maybe N.D. is a nine year old with good vocabulary skills. i think a poll would be useless because people would just vote numerous times for their guy.
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Hardly better biceps? lol Dorian's biceps had shitty peak, they sucked. We all know he showed up with no bicep and still won.
If you're going to argue against poor calves then I'll just point out Yates' poor right bicep.
I don't give a damn about calves, not everyone can have great calves.
it was the left biceps that was torn. and people talk sheet about yates left tricep, but no one knew there was a problem with the tricep till after yates said something.
wasnt this a "could cutler beat yates" topic?
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It wasn't me who turned this into a Yates vs Ronnie thread , I just responded , and Yates isn't my hero and I would never want to look like him but when push comes to shove he is clearly more complete than Coleman , thats a simple fact that simple people can't seem to grasp , at thier respective bests neither had an edge on size , because they were roughly the same size , same with conditioning , Coleman has an edge on some shape & Yates in others , and in my opinion Yates simply looks better in most of the mandatory poses.
Mesmorph78 I like how you come to the conclusion that Yates wasn't even in the same leauge as , Coleman , Dillet , Flex and Ray , but you're a tad off with your assesment it was neither of them who were in his leauge , do deny Yates dominated the sport is just a retarded statement and it shows you know zero about the sport ,Yates owned the sport of bodybuilding in the 90's he was leaps & bounds better than everyone , in my opinion ONLY Flex Wheeler had a legitimate shot at beating him , a 93 Arnold Classic Flex could beat Yates , and no one else , Dillet if he had a back and his condition was dead -on , but he never had a great back so much for that , Ray was just to small and never had a legitimate shot , Coleman was beat outright by Yates 5 times , Nasser could have beat Yates if he had a back , guess what he didn't .
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It wasn't me who turned this into a Yates vs Ronnie thread , I just responded , and Yates isn't my hero and I would never want to look like him but when push comes to shove he is clearly more complete than Coleman , thats a simple fact that simple people can't seem to grasp , at thier respective bests neither had an edge on size , because they were roughly the same size , same with conditioning , Coleman has an edge on some shape & Yates in others , and in my opinion Yates simply looks better in most of the mandatory poses.
Mesmorph78 I like how you come to the conclusion that Yates wasn't even in the same leauge as , Coleman , Dillet , Flex and Ray , but you're a tad off with your assesment it was neither of them who were in his leauge , do deny Yates dominated the sport is just a retarded statement and it shows you know zero about the sport ,Yates owned the sport of bodybuilding in the 90's he was leaps & bounds better than everyone , in my opinion ONLY Flex Wheeler had a legitimate shot at beating him , a 93 Arnold Classic Flex could beat Yates , and no one else , Dillet if he had a back and his condition was dead -on , but he never had a great back so much for that , Ray was just to small and never had a legitimate shot , Coleman was beat outright by Yates 5 times , Nasser could have beat Yates if he had a back , guess what he didn't .
Okay, ND's argument seems to be that Dorian is better because he is more complete. However, this argument is flawed because it ignores the fact that just because you have less flaws (ie. calves) does not make up for the rest of your body being inferior.
For example:
We can say that Dorian is more complete only because he has calves (abs were never mentioned as a weak point in the pre-gut Ronnie years- his abs were good until his gut obliterated them).
However, Ronnie has better arms overall (I think most would agree on this), better chest and better quads (again the pics don't lie), better glutes and hams with a much smaller waist creating a better X-frame. And this is assuming that we call the back even, when in actual fact, most would agree that Ronnie's back is slightly better overall.
So, what good is "being more complete" when you are actually "mostly inferior even if you are "more complete"?
So, the argument that Dorian is better because he has less flaws is totally flawed itself.
I would like the dorian fans to comment on these pics from the 2003 Mr. Olympia:
(http://www.geocities.com/ronniecolemantr/image/Ronnie_Coleman_24.jpg)
(http://www.geocities.com/ronniecolemantr/image/Ronnie_Coleman_28.jpg)
(http://www.geocities.com/ronniecolemantr/image/Ronnie_Coleman_23.jpg)
(http://www.geocities.com/ronniecolemantr/image/Ronnie_Coleman_29.jpg)
(http://www.geocities.com/ronniecolemantr/image/Ronnie_Coleman_35.jpg)
Ronnie's flaws sure aren't very obvious when he dials it in..He looked so good at the 2003 pre-judging that you can make a pretty good argument for it being his best ever shape. By the 2003 night show though, it looks like he softened quite a bit.
Dorian even in his best shape would have a hell of a time with Ronnie in this condition..
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Again you gloss over things , Yates isn't more complete becuse he has calves , he is more complete because he has much better BALANCE , MUSCLE PROPORTION and I love how you keep comming to the conclusion the rest of Yates physique is inferior , pure nonsense , most would agree Coleman has better arms? I sure has hell wouldn't , I'll agree Coleman has better biceps and thats it ! Yates has better triceps and I would say slightly better forearms that match his whole arms.
You act like Coleman's only flaw is his calves , its not , his other flaws are his medicore triceps , I don't care how big his arms are , he still has thin side triceps and this hurts his sidetricep shot , he has a giant ass and this hurts all back poses , its a flaw when you can see your ass in front poses , he also has poor overall muscle balance and always has , and his abs every only clearly visable when he competed at low bodyweights and his abs have an odd shape a thier best , not to mention the lack of clearly defined serattus , intercostels .
The whole argument is Yates is better because he has less flaws , better balance & proportion and is more complete and he also looks better in most of the mandatory poses , has at their respectives bests , the same size & conditioning as Coleman and Yates has faced much higher caliber of competition than Coleman , he just simply outclasses Coleman where it counts in the 7 mandatory poses.
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put this to the people with a poll
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Question:
If Yates truly has "better muscle balance and proportion" then why does he get KILLED in shots like this:
(http://digilander.libero.it/gruppociak/dy78.jpg)
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/bwcoleman0edecbab.jpg)
Answer: because you say that yates has better balance and proportion, but you are forgetting that muscle shape plays a huge role in that, and that is something that Yates lacks compared to Ronnie.
And, I don't know how you can still say that Yates has better arms overall after looking at all these comparison shots.
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Question:
If Yates truly has "better muscle balance and proportion" then why does he get KILLED in shots like this:
(http://digilander.libero.it/gruppociak/dy78.jpg)
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/bwcoleman0edecbab.jpg)
Answer: because you say that yates has better balance and proportion, but you are forgetting that muscle shape plays a huge role in that, and that is something that Yates lacks compared to Ronnie.
And, I don't know how you can still say that Yates has better arms overall after looking at all these comparison shots.
here we go again comparing an offseason yates to a contest ready ronnie.
ronnie is great no doubt, but his tris and calves pale next to yates'.
ronnie has a huge ass and look at the 2003 pics above and it shows. again, ronnie is great but ripping on yates is really getting old.
like it or not ronnie never beat yates, period.
back wise, yates takes it. ronnies rhomboids are lost in his lats and his traps dont cover as much area.
yates abs are much better than ronnies.
hardness=yates.
ronnies best was so far the 247 pound version at the arnold, and he would have been dwarfed by a best ever 257 pound yates.
this will go on and on.
and no cutler really couldnt beat yates
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Question:
If Yates truly has "better muscle balance and proportion" then why does he get KILLED in shots like this:
(http://digilander.libero.it/gruppociak/dy78.jpg)
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/bwcoleman0edecbab.jpg)
Answer: because you say that yates has better balance and proportion, but you are forgetting that muscle shape plays a huge role in that, and that is something that Yates lacks compared to Ronnie.
And, I don't know how you can still say that Yates has better arms overall after looking at all these comparison shots.
Your reasoning just keeps dumber , Yates has inferior shape because Coleman looks better in the most muscular pose? lol just in case you didn't know the most muscular pose is NOT one of the mandatory poses
And its you who keeps forgetting how important muscle shape is , especially considering you keep acting like Yates has zero shape , you act like he looks like Palumbo or Paco , he doesn't and guess what Coleman has some oddly shapped muscles , like calves , like glutes , like abs , like triceps , hell even his quads are oddly shapped , especially if you compare them to someone like Tom Platz.
Its ironic you keep bringing up shape as well , because Flex Wheeler had much better shape compared to Yates & Coleman but Yates consistantly beat him , I'll give you Coleman has the edge in shape with some muscles but don't act like Yates is Palumbo to Coleman because thats moronic.
Yates has superior muscle proportion , that means all of his individual muscles complement each other in a positive way that does not throw off the whole effect , his calves match his quads , unlike Coleman who has small calves and giant overly developed quads , Yates upper & lower body match-up better than Colemans , Yates biceps were a tad small for his frame however they match-up better with his triceps & forearms in my opinion than Colemans , Coleman has giant biceps/triceps but his forearms look too small for them , I've always said Coleman's traps appear small especially when veiwed from the front .
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Yeah but.................neve rmind.
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Yeah but.................neve rmind.
but this was suppossed to be could cutler beat yates.
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Like Haney, Yates never had superstar arms like Ronnie, Sergio and Arnold. Period. Right there, smallish arms relative to his torso throws off Yates' symmetry and balance. Coupled with a predominant thick torso, waist and the hips of a powerlifter, he's got a lot of weaknesses unless the criteria's powerlifting.
The few areas Yates beats Ronnie and almost anyone else are density and thickness-far more obvious and impressive on video than in pics. Impressive, but in almost every other way Ronnie's way out in front-size, shape, aesthetics, smaller bone structure, skin tone, a look of athleticism-Yates often looks more like a wrestler. They're about even on balance, given that Yates' arms don't compare with his thick waist, torso and hips. By the way, someone should have clued Yates in long ago on appearance-the puggishly unfriendly grimaces in most photos sure didn't help..
Yates beats Cutler thanks to sharper definition and density.
Dillet, with better size, smaller waist and hips, wider shoulders, superstar arms and better balance, could've put Yates into retirement if he'd had his act together and politics on his side.
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you guys keep saying yates would get outsized, dont you think if he was still in it that he would be even that much bigger and ronnie would not have won an O yet?
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just in case you didn't know the most muscular pose is NOT one of the mandatory poses
I guess you missed the 2004 Mr. O... ;)
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here we go again comparing an offseason yates to a contest ready ronnie.
Here is a contest pic:
(http://body.builder.hu/imagebank/pictures/974026807.jpg)
and he still gets killed. Why? he doesn't have the shape, definition and vascularity that Ronnie does. It's very simple. Look at the shape of Dorian's arms and chest and then compare them to Ronnie. Even though the size is there, the quality of shape and definition makes all the difference. You can do the same with dorian's quads compared to Ronnies (in pre-gut condition). Hell, Dorian's quads were probably larger than the pre-gut Ronnie's, but the quality is not there when you compare the two. I don't understand why this is so difficult to admit when the pics are right there on the screen for everyone to see. To most people, except the die-hard Dorian fans, the difference is fairly obvious.
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Coleman has some oddly shapped muscles , like calves , like glutes
Ronnie does not have oddly shaped glutes.
(http://www.steelfitness.com/beta/photogallery/2000olympia/ronniecoleman/ronniecoleman05.jpg)
they are very sexy.. :-* :-* :-* :-*
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I've always said Coleman's traps appear small especially when veiwed from the front .
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/6xo13.jpg)
and you have always been wrong! Look at this pic- if Ronnie's traps were any larger he would look ridiculous.
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so could cutler beat yates?
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so could cutler beat yates?
No. But Ronnie could. :-*
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you guys keep saying yates would get outsized, dont you think if he was still in it that he would be even that much bigger and ronnie would not have won an O yet?
No.
PS - buy the 2003 Mr. Olympia DVD. ;)
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(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/6xo13.jpg)
and you have always been wrong! Look at this pic- if Ronnie's traps were any larger he would look ridiculous.
His traps are small ;)
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Hey Hulkster, can you tell us all when the vascularity round was added to competion??
Dont give me the "gaspari" BS either. He was rewared for his condition not his vascularity.
Also compared to most other pros Cutler is not very vascular. hey that probably why he lost to Ronnie, because ronnie edged him out in the vascularity round.
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should change ND's name to devil's advocate because there is no way in hell he is that single minded to believe that Ronnie is so pathetic.
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ronnie has small traps..
riiiiight, and dorian has puny calves.
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Am I the only one who has never been impressed with Yates?
I was impressed more by Dorian's iron will reflected by pushing his body past it's threshold, by the torn biceps, triceps and willingness and drive to compete in the Olympias at less than 100%.
His physique was obviously lacking in those years, and he probably should not have won, but people respect a pro who's drive is non-stop.
DIV
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Am I the only one who has never been impressed with Yates?
join the club!!
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I was always impressed most by Weider's willingness to keep this guy at the top. That was the best.
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I was always impressed most by Weider's willingness to keep this guy at the top. That was the best.
true, I still believe that the 1994 Mr. O. was the worst case of judging since the 1980 show - at least in 2001 and 2000, Ronnie still had a decent back to fall back on. In 1994, even Dorian's back was soft ( at least compared to Shawn Ray's). Not to mention the huge gut, missing and torn bicep etc etc.
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small traps
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y163/BBingDungeon/mr%20olympia%2096/15.jpg)
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(http://www.bbcenter.sk/images/gallery/arnolds_classic/ronnie_coleman/coleman02.jpg)
see, the stupid thing is that if Ronnie's traps were any larger, no doubt ND would be going on about how his traps are too big, just like he goes on about his ass. ::)
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true, I still believe that the 1994 Mr. O. was the worst case of judging since the 1980 show - at least in 2001 and 2000, Ronnie still had a decent back to fall back on. In 1994, even Dorian's back was soft ( at least compared to Shawn Ray's). Not to mention the huge gut, missing and torn bicep etc etc.
Stop being melodramatic his back was soft in 94? look at these pics from 94 of his back I think you feel off your rocker !
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doesnt look as good as ray from those pictures
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the last pic in black and white that has the page number on it is from the 1995 olympia.
i was there, yates was untouchable just as ronnie is today.
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Stop being melodramatic his back was soft in 94? look at these pics from 94 of his back I think you feel off your rocker !
as someone else here likes to say.......WHOOOOOOOSSSHH HHHH
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Yates was probably close to unbeatable at a few Olympias-his advantage in density doesn't come across fully in pics. Some of the rest of the wins are as questionable as Haney's.
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doesnt look as good as ray from those pictures
exactly. ND acts like Dorian has the greatest back double bi ever, but in actuality, it wasn't nearly as good as his lat spreads and lower back shots. this is why Ronnie's back is better overall: he has a much better rear double bi shot. Anyone with good eyes will agree with this statement:
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/bluecolemanbacks.jpg)
Dorian who?
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The the end of the day, Jay is bigger than Dorian and has better shape.
(http://www.fitplus.cz/allpic/mf/f_108.jpg)
(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/Arnold_Classic/2002/006.jpg)
(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/Arnold_Classic/2002/005.jpg)
(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/Arnold_Classic/2002/022.jpg)
(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/Arnold_Classic/2002/020.jpg)
(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/Arnold_Classic/2002/007.jpg)
(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/Arnold_Classic/2002/019.jpg)
(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/Arnold_Classic/2002/018.jpg)
(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/San_Francisco_Pro/2003/SF_Pro_2003_014.jpg)(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/San_Francisco_Pro/2003/SF_Pro_2003_010.jpg)
(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/San_Francisco_Pro/2003/SF_Pro_2003_019.jpg)(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/San_Francisco_Pro/2003/SF_Pro_2003_020.jpg)
(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/Ironman/2003/Ironman2003_071.jpg)
(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/Ironman/2003/Ironman2003_081.jpg)
(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/Ironman/2003/Ironman2003_064.jpg)
(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/Ironman/2003/Ironman2003_034.jpg)
(http://www.fitnesspont.hu/mass-shop/picture_gallery/Mr_Olympia/2004/Mr.O_2004_179.jpg)
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exactly. ND acts like Dorian has the greatest back double bi ever, but in actuality, it wasn't nearly as good as his lat spreads and lower back shots. this is why Ronnie's back is better overall: he has a much better rear double bi shot. Anyone with good eyes will agree with this statement:
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/bluecolemanbacks.jpg)
Dorian who?
Dorian who? Dorian Yates you know the guy who beat Coleman 5 times ;)
This back shot is much better than Colemans , because of the much better balance , the much better muscle proportion , much better calves , smaller glutes and he has the same detail & width ;)
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Am I the only one who has never been impressed with Yates?
i was never ever impressed with him.. condition aside...
nothing about him is impressive or astthetic to me...
he shouldnt have won not even one single mr olympia in my view...
his lacked good muscle shape... ie round muscles....
@ nd i notice you keep going on about how flawed ronnie is... this and that...
did u watch mr olympia 2004 challenge round... ::)
EVERY SINGLE BODYBUILDER bar (markus rhul) in the top six challenged ronnie on the abs and thigh pose... challenged ronnie
because they know to challenge him in ANY other pose... pure folly...
and yet u still maintain.. ronnie isnt good...
lol... you are seriously delusional...
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You must be retarded to think that Dorian picture is on the same level as the Ronnie one. Take your head out of Dorians ass.
Ronnie is alot wider in that picture, his waste is alot smaller, his hams are much more shredded, as are his arms, and Ronnie has much more detail.
You're right Yates far surpasses Coleman on all levels ;)
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In that Pic, Dorian looks to have thicker Delts, Traps, lower back, and calves.
Coleman has better upper arms, Lats, hams, and over all detail and taper.
Its a good comparison pic though.
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/bluecolemanbacks.jpg)(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30855.0;id=29872;image)
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In that Pic, Dorian looks to have thicker Delts, Traps, lower back, and calves.
Coleman has better upper arms, Lats, hams, and over all detail.
Its a good comparison pic though.
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/bluecolemanbacks.jpg)(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30855.0;id=29872;image)
Coleman isn't doing the pose correctly thats why his lats appears better , because he is leaning back and Yates is standing straight up , look at this pic and tell me Yates doesn't have better lats .
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to respectfully disagree with u, dorians back double bi looks pretty damn blocky in that picture. Ronnie's back has much mroe flow in comparison. dorian ahs him beat on calves, but ronnie has better hamstrings. Ronnies biceps also peak more
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look at this pic and tell me Yates doesn't have better lats .
(http://digilander.libero.it/mrolympia2/rc104.jpg)
(http://www.hugon0.elisa.pl/greg/galeria/clas_2001/images/a18_jpg.jpg)
I would be willing to bet that they were pretty equal in lat width, but Ronnie's smaller waist makes his lats look more impressive.
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I agree the smaller waist adds to the effect
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No comparison really. Yates never had that kind of size and was always BLOCKY. If i need a piano moved Yates gets the call.
Yates had better density and looked more powerful than Cutler.
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I agree the smaller waist adds to the effect
Hmmmm. yeah great straight on shot. waist appears small since the shot is taking from a angle above his waistline accentuating his upper body width
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No. There not called horseshoes for nothing. when was the last time you saw a horseshoe shaped like the triceps on yates arms?
since when does a triceps have to be a horseshoe? the shape is what it is. some have more muscle(dorian) and some have more tendon.
some have short peaked bis(franco) and some have football shaped with not much peak bis(levrone, ray).
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I think Jay could beat Dorian. Jay is 5'9 and weighs 275lb on stage. Thats 2 inches shorter than Dorian and 20lbs heavier.
Jay cutler is a better version of Nasser with a MUCH better back. We all know that Nasser gave Dorian a run for his money in 95, 96, and 97.
You're just dumb. Dorian was 265lbs at the 97 O, during pre-judging, at 2% bodyfat, and ballooned to 274 lbs at the night show, while still being a 2% bodyfat. I have said it over and over again, but the retarded fucks, from this board, don't seem to get it:Dorian's conditioning REMAINS the gold-standard, which all bodybuilders aspire to. When you take into account height and bone girth, the ONLY bodybuilder who comes CLOSE to Dorian is the 2003 Coleman.
Jay Cutler...Dorian defeated Ronnie innumerable times during his career, something which Jay Cutler has failed to do even a single time. Doesen't this tell you something about who's the man? I was at the 1996, 1997, 1999 and 2003 Olympias, and also other 300 bodybuilding shows, both amateur and professional, besides being a competitor myself, and I have NEVER seen anything that looks like Yates, in contest condition. He was a human physiology chart, etched in granite. This debate is very stupid because taking into account mass-per-square-inch, density, dryness and structural balance, Dorian is undoubtedly the greatest bodybuilder ever. Tom Platz, Lee Haney, Samir Bannout and Lee Labrada also agree.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Iv'e also seen Dorian in person and people just don't get it. The man looks like he is made of fookin plutonium, he is so dense
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I love how hard you guys fight over this issue. You are both(ND and Hulkster) so passionate about the issue. I think it's funny this thread dissolved into a pissing contest between you both, with the same pictures being posted over and over. It's still entertaining nonetheless.
Yates had Cutler and Coleman in the density/shredded department I think most would agree.
Coleman and maybe Cutler had him in the mass department, even though they look like water buffalos imo.
It's been pointed out before that Yates defeated Coleman 5 times, and the response is always, "Coleman hadn't peaked yet blah blah blah." Well I could point out that If Yates has continued to improve, he would have matched the mass off Cutler and Coleman. He was taller than the both of them so it's not unreasonable to think this.
Bottom line....The judging criteria in the 90s was not the same as the judging criteria today. Today mass reigns supreme. People build their bodies to fit whatever the ideal is in the judges minds and this changes.
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I love how hard you guys fight over this issue. You are both(ND and Hulkster) so passionate about the issue. I think it's funny this thread dissolved into a pissing contest between you both, with the same pictures being posted over and over. It's still entertaining nonetheless.
Yates had Cutler and Coleman in the density/shredded department I think most would agree.
Coleman and maybe Cutler had him in the mass department, even though they look like water buffalos imo.
It's been pointed out before that Yates defeated Coleman 5 times, and the response is always, "Coleman hadn't peaked yet blah blah blah." Well I could point out that If Yates has continued to improve, he would have matched the mass off Cutler and Coleman. He was taller than the both of them so it's not unreasonable to think this.
Bottom line....The judging criteria in the 90s was not the same as the judging criteria today. Today mass reigns supreme. People build their bodies to fit whatever the ideal is in the judges minds and this changes.
That is actually a very good reason as to why Coleman did not beat him. Even Bob Chicherillo beat him at some point. So to say that development and muscular maturity has nothing to do with this is flat out stupid.
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If you're really asking if Cutler could beat Dorian when Cutler is ON, then no, in my opinion.
But if you're asking if Dorian could beat Cutler if Dorian was OFF, then yes, Dorian would beat him.
Applying some logic to my previous statements (both of whcih say the same thing) one could deduce this hypothesis:
Yes, Dorian could beat Cutler, off.
Further modified;
Dorian could beat Cutler off.
Further modified;
WHO GIVES A SHIT!...Dorian was a friggin Mr Olympia!!!!...and until Jay wins it, you can't compare them.
That is all.
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this pic has halleluja resurfaced... where we can see dorian against coleman and another bodybuilder.....
look at dorians earth shatterin density, grainyness and mind bogglin hardness!! :o
as i keep sayin he made all other bodybuilders look like condoms full of shit... and coleman is no exception.
colemans conditionin and density just cant match dorian's ... and coleman's condition looked way better when he competed at a lighter weight many moons ago.
all that coleman has got is size n shape with some excellent seperation in his delts especially... but dorian looks like he is constructed from almost metalic concrete and has superb size ... dorian is the one grabbin all the attention always.
look at how a conditioned smaller atlete like cutler picked apart ronnie in 2001... could you just imagine a dorian goin up against ronnie year in year out... both at their peaks... dorian's sheer awe inspirin density takes coleman apart.
this pic is totally unreal......
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this pic is totally unreal......
YEP, RONNIE LOOKS FUKKIN AMAZING AS ALWAYS.
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this pic has halleluja resurfaced... where we can see dorian against coleman and another bodybuilder.....
look at dorians earth shatterin density, grainyness and mind bogglin hardness!! :o
as i keep sayin he made all other bodybuilders look like condoms full of shit... and coleman is no exception.
colemans conditionin and density just cant match dorian's ... and coleman's condition looked way better when he competed at a lighter weight many moons ago.
all that coleman has got is size n shape with some excellent seperation in his delts especially... but dorian looks like he is constructed from almost metalic concrete and has superb size ... dorian is the one grabbin all the attention always.
look at how a conditioned smaller atlete like cutler picked apart ronnie in 2001... could you just imagine a dorian goin up against ronnie year in year out... both at their peaks... dorian's sheer awe inspirin density takes coleman apart.
this pic is totally unreal......
If you are going to smootch on Dorian's ass, at least do it right.
Because you know, what better way to highlight Dorian's glory than to show him flexing his biceps. :D
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cutler kills dorian in every pose.
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Dorian only beat Jay in back lat spread and calves..
while Jay beat Dorian in arms, chest, shoulders, legs and hamstrings..
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cutler kills dorian in every pose.
EXACTLY.
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many other past bbers still looks good from healthy eating, steady lifting, and probably HRT treatment. Dorian looks like he eats chips all day. Lee Haney looks like he trains 5 day a week still.
You what? Every time I see a modern picture of Haney in some asskissing piece in FLEX he looks like any old normal guy in the street.
The problem with these current pictures of ex Mr Os is that they really help to underline and enforce the public's perception that all that really matters are steroids. Yates claims he still lifts, and if so, that makes it even worse.
My take on the thread is that 1993 Yates would place #3 behind Coleman and Cutler at the 2005 Mr O, because while he has it, size is all that matters now and he doesn't have enough to beat Jay or, of course, Ronnie.
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I agree. Size is king now in bodybuilding. IMO the 90s yielded the most impressive physiques.
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OMG Dorian doesn´t weigh 270 at 3% anymore. So what??? He weighs maybe 210-220 at 10% now and is healthy. You dumbminded Dorian bashers will never get such a condition in your entire life and you blame him putting bodybuilding in a bad light?! Morons!
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You what? Every time I see a modern picture of Haney in some asskissing piece in FLEX he looks like any old normal guy in the street.
The problem with these current pictures of ex Mr Os is that they really help to underline and enforce the public's perception that all that really matters are steroids. Yates claims he still lifts, and if so, that makes it even worse.
My take on the thread is that 1993 Yates would place #3 behind Coleman and Cutler at the 2005 Mr O, because while he has it, size is all that matters now and he doesn't have enough to beat Jay or, of course, Ronnie.
hey guess what , you unrealistic piece of s'hit , you....
... since carl lewis retired he hasnt been able to get anywhere near the 10 second 100 metres! ;)
martina navratilova wouldnt even qualify for a glandslam since she retired ........
how many rounds of boxin dya think marvin hagler would last since he took off his gloves for the last time/
you look at these people now , you wouldnt ever imagined they were top athletes! they must have been on drugs ,lmfaoo. ::)
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THANK YOU FREEAGAIN!!
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martina navratilova wouldnt even qualify for a glandslam since she retired ........
Navratilova has played in several grand slams this year and has come out of retirement on several occasions.
That aside, there is an enormous difference between an athlete retiring due to age, and a pro bodybuilder like, say, Dorian (and I have enormous respect for the man) who, not even ten years on, doesn't look anything like a bodybuilder any more. Neither does Haney.
Evidently, you missed my point; that to the public, this reinforces the 'steroids is all' attitude.
Martina Navratilova is still in unbelievable shape; I suggest you pick up a newspaper from time to time.
Please learn to read - and more importantly, write (unless you're twelve or thirteen, in which case I apologise, but do try harder in school) - before attempting to critique my posts again. Cheers.
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Dorian who? Dorian Yates you know the guy who beat Coleman 5 times ;)
This back shot is much better than Colemans , because of the much better balance , the much better muscle proportion , much better calves , smaller glutes and he has the same detail & width ;)
Denied! Where's the width in that shot?!?! Great back, but that pose doesn't favour him. His calves overshadow his lats for christ's sake. That's not good balance. Arms look better than usual there though, and his delts are big rocks of awesomeness. That photo session yeided some insane pics!!!!!
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Zugzwang,
How do you know Dorian doesn´t look like a bodybuilder anymore? Have you seen him with his shirt off recently? No you have not. Dorian still trains with weights. His bodyfat is still low regarding normal standards (let´s say 10%). Even if he weighs just 200 pounds at that condition, don´t you see that this is an extraordinary accomplishment, assuming he is all natural now?
And HELLO, NEWS FOR YOU: GOING FROM 200 AT LOW BODYFAT TO 270 AT VERY LOW BODYFAT IS ALL ABOUT THE DRUGS (combined with proper training and nutrition of course)!!!
So the public is damn fu**ing right if they think it´s all about the drugs (although they underestimate the training/Nutrition part)!!
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Zugzwang,
How do you know Dorian doesn´t look like a bodybuilder anymore? Have you seen him with his shirt off recently? No you have not. Dorian still trains with weights. His bodyfat is still low regarding normal standards (let´s say 10%). Even if he weighs just 200 pounds at that condition, don´t you see that this is an extraordinary accomplishment, assuming he is all natural now?
If that's true, then great. I have enormous respect for Dorian and hope he does still look good and work out. John Hotten said as much in Muscle - that Yates still is imposing - but he doesn't appear that way at the various expo pictures floating around the 'Net.
I fully appreciate that DY doesn't have anything to prove to me or anyone else out there (or here), but, again, my comment was general and in relation to the stigma attached to BB in the external world.
And HELLO, NEWS FOR YOU: GOING FROM 200 AT LOW BODYFAT TO 270 AT VERY LOW BODYFAT IS ALL ABOUT THE DRUGS (combined with proper training and nutrition of course)!!!
So the public is damn fu**ing right if they think it´s all about the drugs (although they underestimate the training/Nutrition part)!!
Er... that would be my point. ::)
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But why do you care about how the "public" perceives bodybuilding? It is totally irrelevant. Bodybuilding the way you and I want to see it will always be a medical experiment. I mean you can not tell me that even a guy like Darrem Charles is not juiced to the top of his head to present himself onstage as he does.
Bodybuilding will never be mainstream ever!! And if it´s just for the reason that building muscles for their own sake is considered a very narcistic, egoistic and haretic thing in our christian society.
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But why do you care about how the "public" perceives bodybuilding? It is totally irrelevant.
I don't care; it was a throwaway observation. :)
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Jays definitely beat Dorian in the leg department. The reason Dorian's calves look big is b/c he lacks any real thigh sweep. That's why Dorian's thighs always looked narrow from the front and back. Jay always had great thigh development. It looks like he also is starting to have the hamstring development as well.
Add Jay's improved calf development (especially the outer gastroc), and Jay has the more complete leg. 8)
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ND, why do you go on about how great Dorian was. He lacked one arm, and his quad sweep wasn't that great. Moreover, he was the original "Gut" Mr. Olympia. Forget Ronnie, Dorian was the first. Moreover, you go on in one prior thread about how Samir was the best Mr. O ever. Why the f__k do you give a rats ass about Dorian. His biceps, even the good one, sucked. His most muscular blows. Ronnie, damn the gut, is narrower at the hips and this is very evident when they turn around. Ronnie has better arms, lats, traps, chest, thighs, and their shoulders are equal. The only reason Dorian appears to have rounder shoulders is because his arms suck. Ronnie has that amazing bicep peak. Now granted, Dorian in 1993 was the bomb....however, you are talking about his alltime best shape. Compare that to Ronnie circa 2003 and it is no contest. Ronnie to this day was the biggest, most sick individual to ever get onto a posing dais that day. He was unreal. Granted, Dorian's conditioning in 1993 would probably have beaten the Ronnie that showed up in 2004. However, this year and 2003, Ronnie would have whooped his arse. BTW, Jay has Dorian beaten in shape. However, I like Doz's graininess and back better. Compared to an on Ron, the battle is for second. Again ND, if you are such a fan of aesthetics and pleasing physiques, why the love for Dorian and not other mass monsters. ::)
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ND, why do you go on about how great Dorian was. He lacked one arm, and his quad sweep wasn't that great. Moreover, he was the original "Gut" Mr. Olympia. Forget Ronnie, Dorian was the first. Moreover, you go on in one prior thread about how Samir was the best Mr. O ever. Why the f__k do you give a rats ass about Dorian. His biceps, even the good one, sucked. His most muscular blows. Ronnie, damn the gut, is narrower at the hips and this is very evident when they turn around. Ronnie has better arms, lats, traps, chest, thighs, and their shoulders are equal. The only reason Dorian appears to have rounder shoulders is because his arms suck. Ronnie has that amazing bicep peak. Now granted, Dorian in 1993 was the bomb....however, you are talking about his alltime best shape. Compare that to Ronnie circa 2003 and it is no contest. Ronnie to this day was the biggest, most sick individual to ever get onto a posing dais that day. He was unreal. Granted, Dorian's conditioning in 1993 would probably have beaten the Ronnie that showed up in 2004. However, this year and 2003, Ronnie would have whooped his arse. BTW, Jay has Dorian beaten in shape. However, I like Doz's graininess and back better. Compared to an on Ron, the battle is for second. Again ND, if you are such a fan of aesthetics and pleasing physiques, why the love for Dorian and not other mass monsters. ::)
you can go on and on about how the pre-gut Ronnie would destroy Dorian, back it up with pics, break it down bodypart by bodypart, and show how Ronnie has a far superior taper. This can all be clearly illistrated with comparison pics of the wasp-waisted pregut Ronnie vs. Dorian at his wide-waist 1993 best.
But it won't do any good.
People love to discredit Ronnie any chance they get.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30855.0;id=43651;image)
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/comp986.jpg)
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Culter would kill Dorian in a competiton today, both being in their primes and at top condition. Culter probably does higher quality and more steriods in general than Dorian did. Culter also probably does more HGH and insulin as well. The only reason Culter would win today is drugs. However based on natural ability, I would still say Culter is better than Dorian on everything accept the back.
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Average genetics- grossy overdeveloped vastus medialis, lack of separation of the vastus lateralis (the medialis and lateralis actually touch), grossly underveloped rectus femoris and very little thigh sweep. Dorian could do squats and extensions until he was blue in the face, but he still wouldn’t have the genetics to compete with the wheels of Cutler. He would have to be born again. :'(
He used his overly developed calves to make his underdeveloped upper thighs look bigger than they actually were. Arnold did the same thing.
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Great genetics- separation b/w the vastus lateralis, rectus femoris and vastus medialis (with a whole lot of shape). Note how the rectus separates the medialis from the lateralis (as they should). Also note how much fuller Jays’s thigh and calf muscle bellies are in comparison to Dorian’s. Check out the striations as well!
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id like to hear shawn rays opinion on ronnie versus dorian!
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Post the 05 pics of Cutler not this AC crap. 05 Cutler would beat Dorian hands down.
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id like to hear shawn rays opinion on ronnie versus dorian!
back in one of the original dorian vs. Ronnie threads, I posted two shots of Ronnie, one from the front and one from the back from the 98 Olympia and challenged the dorian fans to find two shots from the same contest to beat them.
Shawn commented that it would be tough to find shots of ANY other bodybuilder to compete with them.
that says alot about who he would favor right there: Wasp waist Ronnie all the way.
right shawn? 8)
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Who needs Shawn Ray when there is Hulkster to talk on his behalf? ::)
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Dorian was much drier and harder than Cutler has ever been. Add to this that Dorian had comparable size and better shape and there's your answer. I will say that Cutler has some of the widest shoulders in the history of bodybuilding, which is impressive on a 5'9" frame.
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Who needs Shawn Ray when there is Hulkster to talk on his behalf? ::)
I didn't misquote Shawn. Go and look up the old thread.
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Bump
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Brian Buchanan had a wasp waist. Ronnie never has had in pro competition and his waist does not taper - not in the classic way of Buchanan, Haney, Reeves or Oliva. Ronnie's waist has been smallish at the botton but not a true taper. As I have said before, Ronnie is just a mish mash of parts slapped together with no flow. No fvcking flow baby! Dorian's hips are actually very narrow and even those his waist did protrude it still looked better than Ronnie's bulbous lump, except perhaps in 94. I have seen Dorian and Ronnie compete aghainst each other and it wasn't even close, and this was at a time when Ronnie was supposed to have had his 'wasp' waist. Dorian beat him comfortably.
Ronnie looked good in 98 and 05 and that's it. At least he took my advice for 2005 and worked on his lower pec line - an area he has lacked for years.
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Yeah Anal, Ronnie took your criticisms to heart being that you are the foremost expert in the world on muscular development. ::) I am sure he ran right out and started doing decline presses and flys. :-X
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cutler's got some years left in him. we could see his back develop to dorian's level. if that happens, then jay will be clearly better.
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Depending on how the judges feel that day. I think Dorian's conditioning would make Jay look about 4 weeks out.
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Yeah Anal, Ronnie took your criticisms to heart being that you are the foremost expert in the world on muscular development. ::) I am sure he ran right out and started doing decline presses and flys. :-X
Nice to see this little boy sees the light. Well done son.
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My vote is for ronnie coleman over yates. Dorian's lack of biceps peak and symmetry really takes it away from me. I tend to favor the importance of that area. Hence, I believe Ronnie Coleman has the best front and rear double biceps poses this sport has seen. 98 and 99 mr O's come to mind. The calves and triceps seem insignificant to me.
I like Cutler over Dorian as well. I just find Cutler to be more aesthetic.
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Brian Buchanan had a wasp waist. Ronnie never has had in pro competition and his waist does not taper - not in the classic way of Buchanan, Haney, Reeves or Oliva. Ronnie's waist has been smallish at the botton but not a true taper. As I have said before, Ronnie is just a mish mash of parts slapped together with no flow. No fvcking flow baby! Dorian's hips are actually very narrow and even those his waist did protrude it still looked better than Ronnie's bulbous lump, except perhaps in 94. I have seen Dorian and Ronnie compete aghainst each other and it wasn't even close, and this was at a time when Ronnie was supposed to have had his 'wasp' waist. Dorian beat him comfortably.
Ronnie looked good in 98 and 05 and that's it. At least he took my advice for 2005 and worked on his lower pec line - an area he has lacked for years.
hold on one second:
You are trying to argue that this waist:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/diablo86/93%20olympia/dorian_yates_shawn_ray_flex_wheeler.jpg)
looks better than this one:
(http://www.ifbb.com/contestresults/mrolympia/coleman/99coleman9.jpg)
Are you clinically brain dead??
and, look at ronnie's waist in that last shot, taken from the 99 Olympia. What exactly wrong with the taper??
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JAY CUTLER IS A GREAT BODYBULDER, BUT HE WOULD N'T HAVE A CHANCE AGAINST DORIAN (IN HIS PRIME). JAY WOULD HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM HE HAS NOW WITH RONNIE !!!!!!! WHEN RONNIE OR DORIAN TURN AROUND, THE SHOW IS OVER. THEY'RE BACKS' ARE THE BEST IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT. TO BE HONEST. CUTLER COULDN'T BEAT LEVRONE, RAY, OR WHEELER WHEN THEY WERE IN THEIR PRIMES.
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Now this would make for a much more sound argument. Cutler vs. Yates.
I say Cutler has him on everything but conditioning. Yes, even the rear lat spreads and back. Jay has made incredible improvements to his back.
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Yates would win,
Nasser was basically dominant from the front, better than Jay even, and he could never beat Yates.
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Jay can defend himself from a punk who tries to suckerpunch him, too.
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Dorian would have choked in the challenge round, everybody would call the front double bi.. Poor Dorian..
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Dorian by TKO in the second round!
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Great genetics- separation b/w the vastus lateralis, rectus femoris and vastus medialis (with a whole lot of shape). Note how the rectus separates the medialis from the lateralis (as they should). Also note how much fuller Jays’s thigh and calf muscle bellies are in comparison to Dorian’s. Check out the striations as well!
"Note how the rectus separates the medialis from the lateralis (as they should)" says who? yates muscle shape is what it is. some guys have high calves or lats. some dont. because yates lateral and medial touch only means that that is how they are shaped. like you could train to make them touch and not train the rectus. whoooo boy.
some guys have great biceps brachialis and some guys dont.
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JAY CUTLER IS A GREAT BODYBULDER, BUT HE WOULD N'T HAVE A CHANCE AGAINST DORIAN (IN HIS PRIME). JAY WOULD HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM HE HAS NOW WITH RONNIE !!!!!!! WHEN RONNIE OR DORIAN TURN AROUND, THE SHOW IS OVER. THEY'RE BACKS' ARE THE BEST IN THE HISTORY OF THE SPORT. TO BE HONEST. CUTLER COULDN'T BEAT LEVRONE, RAY, OR WHEELER WHEN THEY WERE IN THEIR PRIMES.
someone who gets it
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No comparison really. Yates never had that kind of size and was always BLOCKY. If i need a piano moved Yates gets the call.
Yates had better density and looked more powerful than Cutler.
Excuse me, but Cutler is much blockier, and at his best - 2001 Olympia - he is actually smaller than Dorian and still has worse conditioning and also inferior symmetry. The 275 lbs Cutler from the 2006 Olympia is very full, yes, but he is also extremely soft, less detailed and has a wider waist than Dorian. Compare 2006 Cutler to the 270 lbs Dorian from the 1997 Olympia and you''ll see that Dorian is just as big but much harder and more shredded.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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One thing you learn from this thread is just how GOOD Yates really was. There's some really impressive photos in here.
This has to be one of the most classic bodybuilding photos of all-time. It's surprising Ron didn't shit out a turd here. LOL
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30855.0;attach=28925;image)
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I disagree - Ronnie at the 2001 Arnold was in better condition (striations everywhere) with just as much mass- but his shape was lightyears ahead of Dorians:
(http://www.dennis-james.com/Gallery/01ac/images/full/djames_AC04a.jpg)
The fact is, that dorian, even at his best, had a super wide waist:
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/diablo86/93%20olympia/dorian_yates_flex_wheeler_.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v240/diablo86/93%20olympia/dorian_yates_shawn_ray_flex_wheeler.jpg)
Please note that this is NOT an attempt to start another 550 post Ronnie versus Dorian thread! :) It is just an attempt to present the facts! - Dorian's mass with density HAS been equalled, if not surpassed.
But regardless, I still think Dorian would destroy Jay - Dorian has a way better back, about equal arms, better calves, abs, chest etc. Dorian's lat spreads and back shots alone would win him enough points over Jay to take him.
u alright today Hulkster? ??? ;D
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Dorian would have choked in the challenge round, everybody would call the front double bi.. Poor Dorian..
LOL...good point!
he would've lost the challenge round both of the years they had it
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as interesting as that question is i find the following question much more interesting:
who trained harder? jay or dorian?
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as interesting as that question is i find the following question much more interesting:
who trained harder? jay or dorian?
An EVEN MORE interesting question would be, could a "Jay vs Dorian" thread beat out the truce "Ronnie vs. Dorian" thread :o :o
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An EVEN MORE interesting question would be, could a "Jay vs Dorian" thread beat out the truce "Ronnie vs. Dorian" thread :o :o
No at his best Ronnie could beat Yates , at his best Cutler wouldn't stand a chance.
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No at his best Ronnie could beat Yates , at his best Cutler wouldn't stand a chance.
WHAT?!?! :o :o :o
Did you type that right?!
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WHAT?!?! :o :o :o
Did you type that right?!
I've always maintained Ronnie could beat Yates I always said it would be close , nothing new its these delusional fan-boys who think Dorian shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Ronnie who can't admit the obvious , Dorian has and could beat Ronnie
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I've always maintained Ronnie could beat Yates I always said it would be close , nothing new its these delusional fan-boys who think Dorian shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as Ronnie who can't admit the obvious , Dorian has and could beat Ronnie
Oh, okay...but how/why is the Truce thread still going then?
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Oh, okay...but how/why is the Truce thread still going then?
??? I haven't posted in it in 8 months , Hulkster , Neo and Pumpster can't leave their opinions to stand on their own two feet .
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??? I haven't posted in it in 8 months , Hulkster , Neo and Pumpster can't leave their opinions to stand on their own two feet .
;) ;D
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Man, this is a GREAT clip from the 1996 Mr. Olympia. How come they don't do this anymore? Just another reason the 90s was better.
Anyways, look at the QUALITY of this lineup, INCREDIBLE! Cutler would really be lucky even to get in the top 4
Oh, and if Dorian was so overrated, how come he got the loudest ovation out of all the BBs? ;)
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FYI, that's Fux on this rear lat spread picture
and Dorian wouldn't place in the top 5 at the Olympia nowadays
it is yates in the rear relaxed lat pic. unless it was fux and was changed. the pic there is yates.
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FYI, that's Fux on this rear lat spread picture
and Dorian wouldn't place in the top 5 at the Olympia nowadays
Haha, I was 14 years old when I posted this. Dorian is now one of my favorite BBs.
And I'm guessing he posted the picture (of which the link is now dead) of Fux's back that is often mistaken for Dorian's, hence the comment.
(http://www.schwarzenegger.it/mro/yates/dy154.jpg)
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you can go on and on about how the pre-gut Ronnie would destroy Dorian, back it up with pics, break it down bodypart by bodypart, and show how Ronnie has a far superior taper. This can all be clearly illistrated with comparison pics of the wasp-waisted pregut Ronnie vs. Dorian at his wide-waist 1993 best.
But it won't do any good.
People love to discredit Ronnie any chance they get.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30855.0;id=43651;image)
(http://www.ronniecoleman.net/comp986.jpg)
haha, almost four years ago and Hulkster and ND still going at :)
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Currently Jay wouldnt beat Toney,Kai,Vic,Dexter,Phil,Branch or Ronnie Rockel(who is massively underrated),let alone Dorian or any of the greatest
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haha, almost four years ago and Hulkster and ND still going at :)
and ND is, much like yourself recently, still being owned by me :P
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I'm not saying Dorian is the best bodybuilder ever, that's debateable, but I think he looks the best hands down in black and white photos. Wonder why that is? Anyone else agree?
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jay at his best beats dorian at his best .... just my opinion
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There really isnt an arguement, Cutler is far from the top guys in the sport, Dorian would beat him hands down. Nasser at his best would push Jay all the way, as Jays back was always watery, it was wide but he was usually soft through the back, similar to Nasser condition wise,so if Nasser was ever going to get an Olympia, it would have been against Jay, as front and side he was superior overall, not as wide from the back, but closer than when hes compared to Dorian or big Ron.
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Your opinion? Post pics of your evidence. The only thing Cutler has better then Dorian is his left quad and bicep.
everyone on this boards.... regulars anyway know the pics.... and as far as a pic comparison..... any pics could be used one way or another to state the case..... overall from what we have all seen.... I recently have a new found respect for jay cutlers physique....
one things is certain... when both guys are dialed in.... theyre both great and when they're off.... it's bad.
I think the tear in dorians arm hurt him and not holding that against him because even if there was no tear and both arms were healthy.... jays arms are better....
make no mistake... not taking anything away from dorian..... great bb'r .... recently finding jays build more appealing
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:D
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Could Cutler Beat Dorian?
No. Dorian is Cutler with a superior structure, more overral long and round muscle bellies and infinitely superior muscle quality - with equivalent size.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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:D
With exception to Cutlers arms, he looks half-way decent in that bottom pic.
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Man, this is a GREAT clip from the 1996 Mr. Olympia. How come they don't do this anymore? Just another reason the 90s was better.
Anyways, look at the QUALITY of this lineup, INCREDIBLE! Cutler would really be lucky even to get in the top 4
Oh, and if Dorian was so overrated, how come he got the loudest ovation out of all the BBs? ;)
great lineup indeed.
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Dorian would win 9 out of 10 times. But a Jay Cutler at his best, say 2001 one, beats ANY Dorian Yates.
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No. Dorian is Cutler with a superior structure, more overral long and round muscle bellies and infinitely superior muscle quality - with equivalent size.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
you little queer look at you digging up old dorian threads
and then you have the nerve to call me a fag for supporting Mr. Levrone ::)
E
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you little queer look at you digging up old dorian threads
and then you have the nerve to call me a fag for supporting Mr. Levrone
E
Epic stalking. No, I won't shove your shit in, phaggot. Stop asking. And where's the plane ticket, you son of a bitch? Will you continue to use the lame excuse that you don't have my address yet?
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Epic stalking. No, I won't shove your shit in, phaggot. Stop asking. And where's the plane ticket, you son of a bitch? Will you continue to use the lame excuse that you don't have my address yet?
SUCKMYMUSCLE
haha just give me your real name and address already and we will settle this, twinkle toes
E
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haha just give me your real name and address already and we will settle this, twinkle toes
E
I've already given you my address, you son of a bitch. Stop running from me and send it already. You embarass yourself every time you demand that I give my adress since I've given it to you ad nauseum. You are so imntimidated by me, it's obvious. I wouldn't ordinarilly beat up a gay guy like yourself because gays are like ladies, but I'll open an exception in your case for being such a shit sniffing phagot.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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I've already given you my address, you son of a bitch. Stop running from me and send it already. You embarass yourself every time you demand that I give my adress since I've given it to you ad nauseum. You are so imntimidated by me, it's obvious. I wouldn't ordinarilly beat up a gay guy like yourself because gays are like ladies, but I'll open an exception in your case for being such a shit sniffing phagot.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
you gave me a bullshit address from brazil, months after i asked for an address from your supposed home in fort lauderdale ::)
i need your real name too
until then, you are a coward hiding from me :-*
E
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Not a chance.
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Dorian would win 9 out of 10 times. But a Jay Cutler at his best, say 2001 one, beats ANY Dorian Yates.
Delusional newbie.
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We'll never know - I happen to think both of them were/are extremely overrated.
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Delusional newbie.
right...cause I need 1000 posts to be considered knowledgeable...
the only pose Dorian could beat Jay at his best would maybe be the back double bicep... Jay would kill him in quad separation, triceps and biceps. Jays mass would cancel out Dorian conditioning, and a well conditioned Jay Cutler would win
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jason cutler couldnt even carry dorians training beg that he didnt have! ,,,you are comparing dorian yates to jason??? what did you lose your mind? they both had no biceps but still jason is not even close to dorian ,,
dorian ws granit ,,dorian was the only bodybuilder who can come with no bicep and win competition when there was competition,,what did jason have ? a very sick ron that was missing half body due to injuries not only bicep,,and still dexter was better!
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dorian ws granit ,,dorian was the only bodybuilder who can come with no bicep and win competition when there was competition,,
spot on as usual
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jason cutler couldnt even carry dorians training beg that he didnt have! ,,,you are comparing dorian yates to jason??? what did you lose your mind? they both had no biceps but still jason is not even close to dorian ,,
dorian ws granit ,,dorian was the only bodybuilder who can come with no bicep and win competition when there was competition,,what did jason have ? a very sick ron that was missing half body due to injuries not only bicep,,and still dexter was better!
well i finally agree with you but you still and never were a pro ifbb bb'er.
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Dorian wins the bodybuilding round, but I would say Jay wins the life outside of bodybuilding round.
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I said Jay Cutler at his best...Dorian wins 9 out of 10 times, but a Jay Cutler at his best could beat any Dorian. Try to think of Jay from 2001, the only Yates that could have a chance against that is 93. And we all know some of those wins Dorian had were bogus...
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Iv'e also seen Dorian in person and people just don't get it. The man looks like he is made of fookin plutonium, he is so dense
What else looks like it was made of pltonium, stud?
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right...cause I need 1000 posts to be considered knowledgeable...
the only pose Dorian could beat Jay at his best would maybe be the back double bicep... Jay would kill him in quad separation, triceps and biceps. Jays mass would cancel out Dorian conditioning, and a well conditioned Jay Cutler would win
Maybe? LOL. Dorian would win the front and rear lat spreads, ab/thigh, side-triceps, rear double-biceps and probably side-chest. Jay would take the front double biceps against an injured Yates, but that's about it.
It's really no contest.
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I said Jay Cutler at his best...Dorian wins 9 out of 10 times, but a Jay Cutler at his best could beat any Dorian. Try to think of Jay from 2001, the only Yates that could have a chance against that is 93. And we all know some of those wins Dorian had were bogus...
Sorry man. Dorian '93 owns '01 Cutler to oblivion. Even if we give Jay the ab-thigh, front double-biceps AND side-chest, he'd barely take any one of those. Contrarily, Doz takes the side-tri, both back poses and the front lat spread by miles.
Jay was awesome that year, but it wouldn't take Dorian's very best to beat him.
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Sorry man. Dorian '93 owns '01 Cutler to oblivion. Even if we give Jay the ab-thigh, front double-biceps AND side-chest, he'd barely take any one of those. Contrarily, Doz takes the side-tri, both back poses and the front lat spread by miles.
Jay was awesome that year, but it wouldn't take Dorian's very best to beat him.
only pose cutler wins is FDB because of yates' fucked bicep
Dorian and Ronnie are number 1 and number 1A in my book, basically a difference of opinion is how you distinguish who's better.
Cutler is nothing special, never was...never will be. He looks like that big boned goofy kid everyone knew that had retard strength.......all blown up on gear
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Dorian would win 9 out of 10 times. But a Jay Cutler at his best, say 2001 one, beats ANY Dorian Yates.
Jay was DQ'ed in 2001, so he'd lose to Yates 10 for 10. Why is jay mr o? Ronnie got old and injured but should have won #9 with the injuries, just far superior structure, and phil and kai are a joke, his main competition for this generation.
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only pose cutler wins is FDB because of yates' fucked bicep
Dorian and Ronnie are number 1 and number 1A in my book, basically a difference of opinion is how you distinguish who's better.
Cutler is nothing special, never was...never will be. He looks like that big boned goofy kid everyone knew that had retard strength.......all blown up on gear
I'm supposed to be a wordsmith, and I couldn't have said it better given ten tries.
Props, mighty Groink :)
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Could Jay Cutler have beat Dorian Yates?
Huh...no.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Yes, both look like shit, Dorian better condition, jay wider and more complete at his best. Not much in it, neither should ever have won the O.
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No
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No
Not saying Dorian wasn't ripped and dry...but those photos are sharpened to within an inch of their life
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Thats the way they were presented here @ GB along with a series of other BBers from the 1996 O, you never get a fully accurate picture from screen caps alot like the 1999 screen-caps of Coleman that were sharpened, posted in another thread elsewhere.
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This is as clear as a screen-cap is from the 96 Olympia no alterations @ all
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Original screen format
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Dorian never looked this good, ever...
Great back and calves, nothing else.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30855.0;attach=28925;image)
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Cutler may carry Dorians garbage outside, on a good day that is....
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Dorian never looked this good, ever...
Great back and calves, nothing else.
Looks real good ::) same contest BTW :-X
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:'(
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Dorian never looked this good, ever...
Great back and calves, nothing else.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30855.0;attach=28925;image)
But back when Dorian competed, the Mr. Olympia was ALWAYS won from the back. And Dorian destroy's Cutler from the back.
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:'(
Still scared to post pics of Dorian flexed? don't blame you 8)
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this is a great pic of dorian flexed! :D
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this is a great pic of dorian flexed! :D
Beat Ronnie at that contest ;)
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Unless it's purely a joke, there should be a rule against posing one guy's worst pics versus another's best. That kind of bullshit makes these debates go on far longer than they should.
Dorian and Ronnie > Jay. At Jay's best versus Dorian or Ronnie's worst winning form, Cutler looks OK, even good -- but he'd still probably lose.
That said, I DO think Jay from '01 would've beaten the stringy, depleted Ronnie in '02. I can't really see him beating Dorian in bloated '94, flatter '96 or torn/bloated '97, though.
I'm sure someone will disagree. Congrats and good luck with that :)
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Can you tell us what bodybuilding show you competed in?
You're just dumb. Dorian was 265lbs at the 97 O, during pre-judging, at 2% bodyfat, and ballooned to 274 lbs at the night show, while still being a 2% bodyfat. I have said it over and over again, but the retarded fucks, from this board, don't seem to get it:Dorian's conditioning REMAINS the gold-standard, which all bodybuilders aspire to. When you take into account height and bone girth, the ONLY bodybuilder who comes CLOSE to Dorian is the 2003 Coleman.
Jay Cutler...Dorian defeated Ronnie innumerable times during his career, something which Jay Cutler has failed to do even a single time. Doesen't this tell you something about who's the man? I was at the 1996, 1997, 1999 and 2003 Olympias, and also other 300 bodybuilding shows, both amateur and professional, besides being a competitor myself, and I have NEVER seen anything that looks like Yates, in contest condition. He was a human physiology chart, etched in granite. This debate is very stupid because taking into account mass-per-square-inch, density, dryness and structural balance, Dorian is undoubtedly the greatest bodybuilder ever. Tom Platz, Lee Haney, Samir Bannout and Lee Labrada also agree.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
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Cutler looks good here, but obvious oil in the deltoids and biceps.
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=30855.0;attach=28925;image)
(http://img6.imagebanana.com/img/bo7guv4a/dorianyatesomfg509.jpg)
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:)
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Never ever seen what people see in Yates apart from his conditioning which was idd great. His physique doesn't flow at all and is simply ugly. I would consider the fridge more aesthetic
especially if he was wearing those hawt high heels.
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Can you imagine Jay wearing these babies?
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-pMkAi4cB1oc/Tkoc-3kBLJI/AAAAAAAAP9s/uyltqDGrxMo/s1600/christian-louboutin-prive-paillette-platforms.jpg)