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Title: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 07, 2010, 08:36:41 AM
Former ATF Agent Pleads Guilty (to stealing money, planting drugs and framing innocent people.)
ktul.com ^ | 05/06/2010 | ktul.com

Posted on Friday, May 07, 2010 12:31:49 AM by The Magical Mischief Tour

________________________ ________________________ ____________


Tulsa, OK - A Tulsa federal agent pleads guilty. He admits to stealing money, planting drugs and framing innocent people. His arrest is part of a larger investigation into possible corruption within the Tulsa Police Department.

34-year-old Brandon McFadden confessed to the crimes as part of a plea deal with the US Attorney's office. McFadden will also be a witness for the prosecution in other cases against law enforcement officers.

Former ATF Agent Brandon McFadden finally has his day in Tulsa Federal Court and pleads guilty to a host of shocking charges including the possession and conspiracy to distribute drugs, possession of a firearm during drug trafficking, and money laundering.

Neal Kirkpatrick is McFadden's attorney.

"He was involved for a couple of years in some dealings with TPD and he wanted to be able to look his children in the face and this is the first step," Kirkpatrick says.

Prosecutors say McFadden stole money, planted drugs and framed innocent people partly because of greed, a clear abuse of both his power as a federal agent and an abuse of the public trust.

"I would agree with that. In his confession, he asked for a special enhancement for abusing his position of trust and he will," explains US Attorney Jane Duke, the prosecuting attorney in the case.

McFadden's arrest is part of a larger investigation into possible corruption in the Tulsa Police Department and at least one TPD officer will also face trial.

In the meantime, several convictions have already been thrown out and innocent suspects freed because of tainted or fabricated evidence and witnesses, like Brandon McFadden, who just plain lied under oath.

McFadden is out on bond under house arrest until his sentencing hearing on July 28.

________________________ ________________________ _

disgusting. 



Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people
Post by: Dos Equis on May 07, 2010, 08:43:36 AM
Disgusting is right.   >:(


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Tito24 on May 07, 2010, 08:44:16 AM
Skin him, and have people stone him to death...


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Hugo Chavez on May 07, 2010, 08:47:32 AM
bet that happens more often than people would like to think it does.  skip jail, it's the gator pit for him :D


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 07, 2010, 08:49:40 AM
bet that happens more often than people would like to think it does.  skip jail, it's the gator pit for him :D

Damn right it happens more than you think. 

To them we are all civilians, not citizens.  The ATF is another agency that should be eliminated entirely. 


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: MRDUMPLING on May 07, 2010, 12:15:40 PM
Don't get me started on the BATF, if one government law enforcement agency shouldn't exist it is definitely them!


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: BM OUT on May 07, 2010, 12:34:25 PM
Randy Weaver is laughing his ass off somewhere saying 'I told you so".


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Purge_WTF on May 07, 2010, 01:04:22 PM
  It's too bad the Branch Davidians aren't alive to do the same.

  Damn the ATF.


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: 240 is Back on May 07, 2010, 02:21:55 PM
they bulldozed the building and MELTED and BURIED the DOOR to the place the next day, so that nobody would ever be able to count the rounds fired INTO the waco complex.



Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people
Post by: Dos Equis on May 07, 2010, 05:04:38 PM
lol.  The CTs never end. 


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: chaos on May 07, 2010, 05:30:26 PM
they bulldozed the building and MELTED and BURIED the DOOR to the place the next day, so that nobody would ever be able to count the rounds fired INTO the waco complex.


It's a double edged sword there.....had those people just come out fo the compound a couple of months earlier..........


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people
Post by: Dos Equis on May 07, 2010, 05:40:49 PM
It's a double edged sword there.....had those people just come out fo the compound a couple of months earlier..........

And had Vernon Howell not been a child molester. . . .


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Skeletor on May 07, 2010, 07:16:34 PM
Some older info but gives insight as to what the scumbag did:

Tulsa Police Officer, Former ATF Agent Accused Of Corruption
Posted: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 7:14 PM EST
By Lori Fullbright, The News On 6


In federal court records, a federal prosecutor accuses the police officer and agent of making up a drug bust, then lying about it on the witness stand, which sent a man and his daughter to federal prison.

Records say a confidential informant also testified at the trials of Larry Barnes and his daughter Larita but later claimed he lied along with the officers.

Records say after the informant passed a lie detector test, a judge released the Barneses from prison and dismissed their case.

Records show Larita Barnes was sentenced to 10 years in prison after a confidential informant named Ryan Logsdon, Tulsa police officer Jeff Henderson and ATF agent Brandon McFadden all testified that the informant bought meth from her and her father for $3,000.

Later Logsdon - the informant - claimed he lied, that the officers actually gave him the cash and told him to say he bought it from the Barnes.  Logsdon says the officers told him the Barneses were drug dealers, but the cops couldn't make a case against them.

Records show Logsdon passed a polygraph test so Larita was released after serving nearly two years behind bars.  Her father had been sentenced to five years. He was also released and their cases were dismissed.

While she was in prison, Larita's son, 9-year-old Hershel Clark, was killed by an accused drunk driver when the boy got off the school bus near Mannford.  He was the only boy of five children, and since Larita was in prison in Texas, she wasn't allowed to attend the funeral.

Court records show Larry Barnes told the judge at his sentencing, "I don't take drugs.  I don't use drugs.  Ryan Logsdon is a liar. H e's a proven liar."

Now, another person accused in a drug case where Agent McFadden was involved wants his case dismissed.  Records show McFadden testified he found nearly six grams of cocaine on Allen Shields.

Shields' attorney argues if McFadden could have lied in the Barneses' case, he could have lied in Shields' case as well.

In an unrelated case, Shields was recently ordered to stand trial for holding his girlfriend at gunpoint, while the woman's 9-year-old daughter hid in a back room and called 911.

Prosecutors say Shields is also a suspect in the disappearance of Tulsan Angie Tucker and the murder of Tulsa businessman Neal Sweeney, although he's not been charged with either.

Records show a federal prosecutor from Arkansas has been and still is investigating possible corruption among some officers in Tulsa.  No charges have been filed against either officer Henderson or Agent McFadden.

Henderson has been placed on administrative leave pending an investigation by an outside agency. Agent McFadden is no longer working for the ATF.  He resigned in September.



http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12237659


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: brooklynbruiser on May 07, 2010, 07:32:59 PM
If you are an agent and you are caught breaking the same laws you are supposed to uphold, you shouldn't be able to plea bargain. It's an insult to everyone.


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Hugo Chavez on May 08, 2010, 01:19:38 AM
they bulldozed the building and MELTED and BURIED the DOOR to the place the next day, so that nobody would ever be able to count the rounds fired INTO the waco complex.


that's not all, they also removed the portion of the concrete safe room that they blasted a hole in killing the remaining women and children that could have survived the fire otherwise.  There's another documentary that goes through that in slow motion and shows the detonation separate the propane tank explosion.  Pictures of the breach still exist but that they took the time to remove the breach area from any analysis says everything.  When the went to do explosive analysis of the reinforced concrete safe room, the blast area was the only area missing.


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people
Post by: Hugo Chavez on May 08, 2010, 01:28:01 AM
lol.  The CTs never end.  
this isn't really a nutty CT imo, but if you really want to call it that, you'll be calling out mostly conservative/right leaning people for it.  back in the 80's they are the ones that raised the biggest questions, concerns and accusations.  many I agree with and many put into rightwing funded documentaries.  you should watch some of them, they're filled with testimony from both people involved and proffesionals who would know and or did know, cia, fbi etc.


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people
Post by: drkaje on May 08, 2010, 03:10:12 AM
lol.  The CTs never end. 

Every single time some whackos get corrected there's a conspiracy theory that turns them into martyrs.


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people
Post by: Hugo Chavez on May 08, 2010, 04:00:51 AM
Every single time some whackos get corrected there's a conspiracy theory that turns them into martyrs.
not sure I understand your point, who is the martyr in this?  :-\


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 08, 2010, 04:14:02 AM
Waco was truly a disgusting act by the vile pigs in govt. Jack bootery at its worst.


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Hugo Chavez on May 08, 2010, 04:19:26 AM
Waco was truly a disgusting act by the vile pigs in govt. Jack bootery at its worst.
I'll have to remember that, call it "Jack Bootery" so people don't get their panties in a bunch ;D


I should have studied to be a lawyer :D


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 08, 2010, 04:21:11 AM
I made it up just now thinking about it.


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 08, 2010, 04:37:08 AM
Why do people get upset when we call them jack boots? 

That's what most of these bitches are.  Get any one of these punks alone wo a gun badge and ten of their buddies next to them and they aint swat. 

Most of these agencies are nothing more than high paid street gangs.


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Hugo Chavez on May 08, 2010, 04:46:13 AM
Why do people get upset when we call them jack boots?  

That's what most of these bitches are.  Get any one of these punks alone wo a gun badge and ten of their buddies next to them and they aint swat.  

Most of these agencies are nothing more than high paid street gangs.
well that's what I'm willing to call them when they are busting into some home with a full squad, shooting dogs and ruining lives over a little pot.  But when they're saving someone from a psycho taking hostages, I don't call them that then.  So there's a disconnect somewhere...  You have all these states with masses of people trying to legalize pot.  Even mothers forming groups to support it lol... That's probably because by now almost everyone knows someone or knows of someone that had their lives totally fucked over for smoking some fucking goddamned weed.  how lame is that?  People want them to go after the real criminals, not people just living their lives and blowing a little steam off with a bowl.  The people have the power, it's time they start using it with the initiative power they have.  Get what you want on the ballot and cram it down the department's throat


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Skip8282 on May 08, 2010, 08:06:06 AM
well that's what I'm willing to call them when they are busting into some home with a full squad, shooting dogs and ruining lives over a little pot.  But when they're saving someone from a psycho taking hostages, I don't call them that then.  So there's a disconnect somewhere...  You have all these states with masses of people trying to legalize pot.  Even mothers forming groups to support it lol... That's probably because by now almost everyone knows someone or knows of someone that had their lives totally fucked over for smoking some fucking goddamned weed.  how lame is that?  People want them to go after the real criminals, not people just living their lives and blowing a little steam off with a bowl.  The people have the power, it's time they start using it with the initiative power they have.  Get what you want on the ballot and cram it down the department's throat



Couldn't agree more.  It's a shame that a little bit of weed can fuck with a person for life.


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Hugo Chavez on May 08, 2010, 08:15:33 AM

Couldn't agree more.  It's a shame that a little bit of weed can fuck with a person for life.
I would call it outright goddamned fucking retarded :D  And I don't even smoke the shit.  Beer man myself ;D  But I doubt beer is any better than pot.


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people
Post by: Dos Equis on May 08, 2010, 08:53:04 AM
this isn't really a nutty CT imo, but if you really want to call it that, you'll be calling out mostly conservative/right leaning people for it.  back in the 80's they are the ones that raised the biggest questions, concerns and accusations.  many I agree with and many put into rightwing funded documentaries.  you should watch some of them, they're filled with testimony from both people involved and proffesionals who would know and or did know, cia, fbi etc.

This

Quote
they bulldozed the building and MELTED and BURIED the DOOR to the place the next day, so that nobody would ever be able to count the rounds fired INTO the waco complex.



= nutty CT.  "They" means who?  The federal government?  So Clinton, Reno, etc. ordered that the building be bulldozed and "MELTED and BURIED the DOOR" the day after the child rapist Vernon Howell burned down his complex to cover up shots being fired into the complex.  I don't know anyone even typing that nonsense can do so with a straight face. 

And I don't really care about political affiliation.  Conservatives can believe in nutty conspiracy theories just like liberals. 


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Hugo Chavez on May 08, 2010, 10:11:44 AM
BB, you really need to research this before shooting your mouth off on it.  It's NOT a crazy CT... There is so much damaging material it's retarded; it would have anyone of the rest of us in prison for 6 consecutive life sentences.  Go ahead and laugh, it's easy to do when you haven't done a lick of research on it. Again, you're mainly accusing conservatives/the right of being nuts on this.  They did most of the work uncovering the truth.  So keep on with it BB.  Tell us why conservatives are off their rocker on this?  It'll be amusing to hear you tell us why the right is totally wrong on Waco.....


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Hugo Chavez on May 08, 2010, 10:14:28 AM
BB, quick question.... I've taken the time to post several documenteries on Waco.  Did you watch even part of one? 


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 08, 2010, 10:16:07 AM
The govt made outlandish claims to justify their actions and could have easily ended the situation by waiting it out.  There was no justification for using the tank over there.


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people
Post by: Dos Equis on May 08, 2010, 10:19:40 AM
This is an internet message board, so I will shoot my mouth off as much as I like.   :)  

So let me see if I understand this.  Someone makes the ridiculous allegation that the federal government bulldozed the compound and melted and burried the door to cover up how many shots were fired into the building, and I'm supposed to disprove this?  lol.  

Uh . . . no.  

No I did not watch the documentaries you posted.


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Hugo Chavez on May 08, 2010, 10:20:14 AM
The govt made outlandish claims to justify their actions and could have easily ended the situation by waiting it out.  There was no justification for using the tank over there.
And even that's a gross oversimplification of what and why, but I know what you mean.  For those who have actually studied Waco, fucking balls it's hard to listen to jackasses just wave it off as a crazy CT...  This is nothing remotely on the level of alien/ufo/reptilian shit etc...


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: 240 is Back on May 08, 2010, 10:22:59 AM
they might have melted and buried and bulldozed for another reason.  who knows.



Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people
Post by: Hugo Chavez on May 08, 2010, 10:25:44 AM
This is an internet message board, so I will shoot my mouth off as much as I like.   :)  

So let me see if I understand this.  Someone makes the ridiculous allegation that the federal government bulldozed the compound and melted and burried the door to cover up how many shots were fired into the building, and I'm supposed to disprove this?  lol.  

Uh . . . no.  

No I did not watch the documentaries you posted.
oh, aren't you special then ::)

"No I did not watch the documentaries you posted"

Nothing much else needs to be said, you admit not giving enough of a shit to spend the time researching what happened.  You don't care to listen to the people involved or the experts who brought valued testimony to the case.  

By all means, shit on the right with this.      


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people
Post by: Dos Equis on May 08, 2010, 10:35:44 AM
oh, aren't you special then ::)

"No I did not watch the documentaries you posted"

Nothing much else needs to be said, you admit not giving enough of a shit to spend the time researching what happened.  You don't care to listen to the people involved or the experts who brought valued testimony to the case.  

By all means, shit on the right with this.      

Special Ed maybe (to quote my kids). 

This is funny.  So I don't watch some youtube (or whatever) clips you posted and this is a problem?  lol.  As if whatever you posted is somehow the authority on what happened.   ::)

I remember Waco.  I followed the story very closely.  I read quite a bit about it.  I could care less what you think about some nutty conspiracy.   

I've also read Danforth's report.  http://www.cesnur.org/testi/DanforthRpt.pdf 

I know, I know.  It's a fraud.  He was paid by Janet Reno.  He's part of the conspiracy, yadda yadda. 


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Hugo Chavez on May 08, 2010, 10:42:21 AM
whatever, go to hell.... They were not youtube clips they were posted on youtube you fucking assclown.  They have been televised many times.  You're just the kind of fucking tard that thinks just because someone uploaded it from their dvr it invalidates it ::)

maybe I'll just wait for the next time it shows up on TV for you to take it serious?  hahaha, not.....


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people
Post by: Dos Equis on May 08, 2010, 10:48:05 AM
Oh look.  A meltdown.  How unpredictable.  lol. 

Yes, I will continue to believe that Vernon Howell was a child rapist, that Vernon Howell set fire to the complex, that Vernon Howell and others murdered and wounded ATF agents, and that Vernon Howell is responsible for the Waco tragedy. 

And I will continue to believe that the allegation that the government bulldozed the complex and burned and buried doors the day after as part of a mass federal government conspiracy is another loony conspiracy theory. 


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: 240 is Back on May 08, 2010, 11:09:04 AM
I dont know what the Waco "conspiracy" was ???

They had a chance to arrest him alone jogging or soemthing the day before, and passed.  instead they sent a team to the house and the Davidians started firing.

After a standoff, the feds moved in, and we have video to show they did a hell of a lot of firing...then they destroyed the crime scene in less than 24 hours.

Maybe you know of other crime scenes where 50+ died, where they bulldoze in 24 hours.  LMAO

Of course.... some of you on this thread are CLINTON VOTERS .... haha libs... of course you're going to defend waco...



Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people
Post by: Dos Equis on May 08, 2010, 11:14:38 AM
I dont know what the Waco "conspiracy" was ???


Yes you do. 

Quote
they bulldozed the building and MELTED and BURIED the DOOR to the place the next day, so that nobody would ever be able to count the rounds fired INTO the waco complex.



Educate yourself.  Read the Danforth Report.  And stay off the nutty CT websites. 


Title: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 31, 2010, 05:36:48 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly
By Erin Alberty

The Salt Lake Tribune


Published: December 24, 2010 06:54AM

 
Shouts break the evening silence.

“Police! Search warrant!”

Officers burst through the door. A man appears across the room. Metal glints from his clasped hands. Shots echo from a police-issue Glock 22. Todd Blair slumps to the floor.

“Five seconds,” said Blair’s mother, Arlean. “In five seconds, he was dead.”

Officers entered Blair’s home Sept. 16 during a drug raid when he stepped into the hall, wielding a golf club, police video shows. Ogden police Sgt. Troy Burnett shot Blair, 45, in the head and chest.

The shooting was deemed legally justified.

“They could have handled it a lot better,” Arlean Blair countered. “They could have tasered him. They could have done a lot of things other than shoot him.”

Investigation reports obtained by The Tribune depict an operation that took some unexpected turns away from protocol before that one explosive moment.



Grounds for search • Whether Todd Blair was a meth dealer or just a well-connected addict is a matter of dispute. Investigators from Weber and Morgan counties began watching Blair in 2009 after hearing that he was letting drug dealers live at his home in exchange for their products, according to the search warrant request. There were previous reports of meth traffic to and from the home, near 5900 South and 2600 West in Roy.

Investigators gathered evidence that it was Blair’s roommate, Melanie Chournos, buying and selling meth — a factor in the no-knock search that would precede Blair’s death.

Detectives later saw Blair leaving for short, nighttime trips, which suggested drug trades, they wrote. Two tipsters claimed that they had seen Blair — not just Chournos — handing drugs to customers.

Investigators, however, didn’t report seeing Blair make a transaction.

“He was not a dealer,” Arlean Blair insists. “I know that he used ... but he was not a drug dealer. A drug dealer has lots of money and nice things. If you looked in his house, he had nothing. He gave everything away to people who were having trouble.”

Two of Blair’s friends claimed they never saw him even use drugs, but others told police he had caved in to his meth addiction.

“He was paranoid,” Candice Coburn — Blair’s on-again, off-again girlfriend — is quoted as saying in a police interview. “His brain was fried. He would punch and yell at invisible people and me.”

Coburn has told The Tribune that she described no such delusions to police, nor did she ever witness them.

“He really was a nice person,” she said. “We had our fights, but ... he was always giving, always helpful.”

On Sept. 16, the day of Blair’s death, Weber-Morgan Narcotics Strike Force investigator Shane Keyes received word that Blair had 2 ounces of heroin and would be getting more that night. Keyes asked 2nd District Judge Scott M. Hadley for a no-knock, nighttime search warrant because house “lookouts” were known to give warning when police were nearby. Meth dissolves quickly, Keyes added, and “if given the opportunity, Chournos will destroy the evidence.”

However, the warrant doesn’t mention that Chournos had already moved out of Blair’s home — a development officers noted in interviews after his death.

“I had been told that there was some ... domestic violence,” said Weber County sheriff’s Sgt. Nate Hutchinson, who was involved with the raid.

Blair was living alone. Because of the reports of violence, officers decided to wait until he left, pull him over in his Pontiac Grand Am and then search the empty house.



“Dynamic entry” • That night, officers saw people come and go from the home. Finally, a man matching Blair’s description got into the car with a woman and drove away.

Officers pulled them over, but instead found it was Blair’s friend, who had been staying with him. Police released the couple and returned their attention to Blair’s home.

The SWAT team prepared for a “dynamic entry” — breaking through the door and subduing anyone inside.

Normally, that involves extensive planning, officers said in investigation interviews.

“A PowerPoint presentation is typically put together (and) a briefing of everybody sitting around the round table in our office ... and all the details are laid out as far as the suspect, the location, the route in, the ... evacuation points and ... where the closest medical [facility] is,” officer Brandon Beck said in a transcribed interview with county investigators.

Instead, the team gathered at a nearby retirement home to go over the plan.

To do a dynamic entry without the in-office briefing is “absolutely not our standard,” said Burnett, the officer who shot Blair, during an interview with investigators.

On the video, minutes before the raid begins, an officer can be heard asking the group, “Did somebody grab a copy of the warrant off my desk?”

“Oh, don’t tell me that,” Burnett replies. He then tells the other officers, “He doesn’t have a copy of the warrant.”

Because the warrant was for a no-knock search, the copy wasn’t necessary to enter the house, Weber County Attorney Dee Smith said.

“Someone could have easily hurried and brought it back [from the office],” he said.

There is no time limit for when a warrant should be presented to a subject, agreed Ogden Police Chief Jon Greiner — “it depends on the situation” — but generally when a warrant is served, “It’s in [officers’] possession at the time.”

As the raid played out, Blair wouldn’t ask for the warrant anyway.



Officers rush in • Burnett was assigned to lead the team in. It wouldn’t be his first use of deadly force — in 2006, he shot and killed white supremacist William Glen Maw after Maw fled from a traffic stop and then turned and pointed a gun at Burnett. Then-Weber County District Attorney Mark De Caria commended him for his bravery.

Outside Blair’s house, Burnett held his .40-caliber Glock 22 “at the low ready,” with a round in the chamber. Six other officers were behind him. It was about 9:30 p.m. when they began to yell, “Police! Search warrant!”

After three strikes on the door, it burst open.

Accounts of what happened next vary by a second here and a foot there.

Those minutiae matter, Smith said.

“We actually broke [the video] down frame by frame,” he said.

The second man in, Ogden officer Jared Francom, said Burnett had gotten “about one foot in the door” when gunfire erupted.

Burnett recalled:

“The door flew open. I was first in the door. I went to the right to ... a living-room area. ... I moved to the right to dig my corners.

“[The number of] feet from the front door to where I first saw him, I don’t know ... eight feet from inside the front door, but I had went ... to the right. I don’t know how far.”

Blair appeared in the door frame holding a MacGregor Lite golf club in the stance of a right-handed batter.

“He had some silver thing. ... I thought it was a sword or something,” Burnett said. “It was silverish and thin.

“I didn’t think about saying words. I just thought about not getting hit, or slashed or whatever.”

The distance from Burnett to Blair has been estimated between “a little more than an arm’s length away,” according to Burnett, to 8 feet, as reflected by a scale diagram showing positions of the shell casings.

“There’s no way to say an exact measure,” Smith said.

Also important is whether Blair was moving toward the officers. Blair initially wasn’t in the doorway but appeared about a second later — technically an “approach,” Smith said. Then he appears to take “about two steps into the doorway with the club raised,” Smith said.

Burnett didn’t remember Blair advancing.

“I’m sure that I was moving forward,” he said. “I don’t know if he was. He was just — it seemed like he was just kind of still. ... I can’t recall him chasing after me. I don’t recall that. He was just right there.”

Francom said, “It appeared to me that he was coming toward us. But there wasn’t much time for him to make too much of an advance before.”

Ultimately, Smith said, it was Burnett who didn’t have time to wait.

“Our best conclusion is it would have taken less than half a second for Mr. Blair to close that gap and strike the officer,” he said.



Aftermath • Video after the shooting shows an officer putting handcuffs on Blair and searching for a pulse. Burnett orders a call to medics and stays in the front room, while other officers search the house.

“Everybody out,” Burnett says. “This is a different crime scene now.”

It isn’t clear from evidence logs whether investigators found the drugs they were looking for. There was paraphernalia and “a small, pink plastic bag with a white crystal substance.”

But neither the substance nor its amount is identified, and officials with the Weber-Morgan Narcotics Strike Force didn’t return The Tribune’s calls for comment.

Ogden police investigated the shooting independently and agreed it was justified.

“He had less than a second to make a decision with a guy swinging what looked like a sword in his hands,” Greiner said. “We train these officers regularly on how to defend themselves and be able to go home at night.”

He said his department also reviewed strategies for no-knock search warrants.

“We’ve discussed a couple of ways as to how we can be more careful,” he said without elaborating. “The problem is, what you’re looking for could easily be destroyed and there’s generally weapons. ... I just don’t know an easy way to get in there.”

Blair’s family has obtained a copy of the video and reports. Neither Arlean Blair nor her two daughters have viewed them.

“No way,” said Todd Blair’s sister, Delene Hyde. “How could I watch my brother’s murder?”

The family has discussed suing police but hasn’t finalized anything.

“We decided to let it rest until after Christmas,” Arlean Blair said. “Christmas is a special time in our family — him [Todd Blair] included.”


Editor’s note: The story has been updated to reflect that Candice Coburn’s remarks were quoted from police reports. Coburn has since told The Tribune that she never saw Blair “punch and yell at invisible people” and made no such statement to police.

Utah’s deadly force law

76-2-404. Peace officer’s use of deadly force.

(1) A peace officer, or any person acting by his command in his aid and assistance, is justified in using deadly force when:

(c) the officer reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent death or serious bodily injury to the officer or another person.

(2) If feasible, a verbal warning should be given by the officer prior to any use of deadly force under Subsection (1)(c).



Video online

In order to show the public how the events unfolded, The Tribune has posted a video of the raid online at www.sltrib.com.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/home/50932722-76/blair-burnett-officers-police.html.csp#


________________________ _________-


Disgusting.   I used to respect cops when I was a kid.  Now -  well - we will leave that alone.  

Taxpayer financed street gangs.

  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WV6Bq8xeQrU


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 31, 2010, 05:37:52 AM
This is total fucking bullshit.  "Protect and serve"  my ass. 

They murdered that guy.   




Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 31, 2010, 05:50:24 AM
Wonder why these "bravest" are not going after bloods, crips, ms-13, vatos loco, etc?   


We all know why now don't we.   Fucking pussies. 


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Bindare_Dundat on December 31, 2010, 06:21:50 AM
The worst is when they shoot those little dogs about 5-6 times for their own sick pleasure as I just cant figure out how a shitzu or a Russell Terrier or even a Lab, for that matter, could be a threat.


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 31, 2010, 06:24:53 AM
The worst is when they shoot those little dogs about 5-6 times for their own sick pleasure as I just cant figure out how a shitzu or a Russell Terrier or even a Lab, for that matter, could be a threat.

"Life on the line"    ::)  ::)   


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Skip8282 on December 31, 2010, 08:04:25 AM
Looks legit to me.  I don't have any problem with this one.


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 31, 2010, 08:11:26 AM
Looks legit to me.  I don't have any problem with this one.

Come on skip.  They did not have a warrant.   The guy was probably thinking his place was being burglarized by people and screaming police.   

These guys were armed to the teeth with helmets, assault rifles, kevlar vests etc.   

Dude had a golf club. 

Even if he did have drugs?   So what?    Its not like this was a hostage situation or thre was danger of imminent violnce to others.   


I'm totally against the militarization of the police force.         


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Skip8282 on December 31, 2010, 08:18:51 AM
Come on skip.  They did not have a warrant.   The guy was probably thinking his place was being burglarized by people and screaming police.   

These guys were armed to the teeth with helmets, assault rifles, kevlar vests etc.   

Dude had a golf club. 

Even if he did have drugs?   So what?    Its not like this was a hostage situation or thre was danger of imminent violnce to others.   


I'm totally against the militarization of the police force.         



They had a warrant, just not on them and didn't have to as it was no-knock.  We know now he had a golf club, but the only thing the officers could see was a metal glint.

It's easy to sit back and play Monday morning quarterback.  When you're the cop whose life is on the line, and you have a second to make a decision, it's completely different.  Talk is easy.

We can agree that a lot of times the cops use way too much force, but in this case, I think they were justified (just going off the vid).


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 31, 2010, 08:26:03 AM
The only reason their "life was on the line" was brecause they broke into a guys house in the middle of the night.   If they knocked on the door and the guy fled into the batheroom and then came out with a club, I could see that.

I'm just imagining a scenario where in the middle of the night my house gets busted in to and I a startled and grab my gun.   

Do I deserve death for trying to protect my house? 

I totally disagree with no-knock warrants.   

I don't think obtaining drugs as evidence is worth the risk of loss of life.   

I'm very conservative on a lot of issues, but not on criminal procedure stuff.   I know a few cops and know how they "build" these cases, an its often on bullshit evidence, like this case.         


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Hugo Chavez on December 31, 2010, 09:18:57 AM
saw this on another forum.  It looks like flat out murder to me.  Same with the father that was shot holding a hose sprayer ::)


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: 240 is Back on December 31, 2010, 10:01:29 AM
Obviously, Obama hasn't responded from his vacation in his pseudobirthplace.

No surprise there!


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 31, 2010, 10:14:03 AM
That's cuz a cracka wuz clipped.


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: SAMSON123 on December 31, 2010, 10:42:34 AM
Wonder why these "bravest" are not going after bloods, crips, ms-13, vatos loco, etc?   


We all know why now don't we.   Fucking pussies. 

Don't you know that the Bloods, Crypts, MS-13, etc etc are "tools" of the police ?!?!!?!?. They were created by the Police and CIA as a way of terrorizing a neighborhood/city/state thereby justifying hiring more police... Also these "gangs" are given and allowed to sell and transport drugs for the CIA/police for the sake of funding their coffers. With this created "crime atmosphere", new totally brainless police are being hired to give the illusion of dealing with crime. These new cops react like they are playing a video game and the HUMAN is just a character on the screen that means absolutely nothing and is ripe for being killed. Sadly the only ones being killed are the innocent citizens and notice the cops murdered without even a flinch in this video.

I have said this before that nothing in america is as it seems. Few are the HONEST things...much are the DISHONEST things. Much to the CHAGRIN of others...this criminality is what CAPITALISM brings. when a society is built upon GREED and WANT then there is nothing that society will not do to achieve that end..EVEN IF IT IS ILLEGAL AND/OR DEADLY!!!


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 31, 2010, 10:53:15 AM
I thougfht the same thing.  Was like a video game.


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: 225for70 on December 31, 2010, 11:00:01 AM
I thougfht the same thing.  Was like a video game.

Shit is crazy, There's a thread about this topic on the G&O...

They say that this killing is justified...

However, it doesn't look right in my book. They gave the guy no change to surrender.


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 31, 2010, 11:03:24 AM
I think that guy had no idea what was going on.


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: 225for70 on December 31, 2010, 11:05:00 AM
I think that guy had no idea what was going on.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=360404.msg5096912#msg5096912



Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Hugo Chavez on December 31, 2010, 03:29:25 PM
spot on lol...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsCuurneZVE


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Dos Equis on December 31, 2010, 07:06:12 PM


They had a warrant, just not on them and didn't have to as it was no-knock.  We know now he had a golf club, but the only thing the officers could see was a metal glint.

It's easy to sit back and play Monday morning quarterback.  When you're the cop whose life is on the line, and you have a second to make a decision, it's completely different.  Talk is easy.

We can agree that a lot of times the cops use way too much force, but in this case, I think they were justified (just going off the vid).

I agree with this.  Cops had to make a split second decision. 


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 12, 2011, 04:54:16 AM
New case of this bullshit.   "Protect and Serve" my ass.   Cops are mostly organized and taxpayer financed street gangs and mafia rackets. 

________________________ ________________________ __________________

Medical care blocked for Marine Veteran killed by SWAT - update
KGUN9-TV ^ | May 11, 2011 | KGUN9-TV


________________________ ________________________ _________________


TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) - 9 On Your Side has uncovered startling new information in the case of a man SWAT team members killed Thursday.

Medical attention was standing by to try to save Jose Guereña.

Paramedics waited more than an hour.

Then deputies sent them away

By then Guereña was dead.


(Excerpt) Read more at kgun9.com ...



Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 12, 2011, 04:55:41 AM
Former Marine killed by SWAT was acting in defense, family says
kgun9.com ^ | May 11, 2011 | Joel Waldman



Jose Guerena, 26, was killed when a SWAT team came to his house to serve a search warrant

Guerena's wife, Vanessa, said the SWAT team did not identify themselves

Thinking it was a home invasion, Guerena got his rifle

Now, Pima County Sheriff's officials are refuting original claims that Guerena fired at the SWAT members. In fact, they confirmed his safety was still on when his gun was recovered. Also, officials said that reports that some SWAT officers' shields were riddled with bullets are also untrue.

SWAT gunned Jose down with 71 rounds fired in just about seven seconds; officials said they did not expect Vanessa to be home with their four-year-old son, Joel, who ended up witnessing his dad's death. Now he has questions about what happened, like so many others.

"The only thing he asked me, 'Mom, my dad a bad guy? They killed my dad! Police killed my dad? Why? What did my dad do?'" explained Guerena.

Jose's relatives want his children to know he did his best to be a great husband, dad and patriot.


(Excerpt) Read more at kgun9.com ...



Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 12, 2011, 05:01:10 AM
SWAT team fired 71 shots in raid
Fernanda Echavarri
Arizona Daily Star Arizona Daily Star | Posted: Wednesday, May 11, 2011 12:00 am
BENJIE SANDERS / ARIZONA DAILY STAR



 Lt. Michael O'Connor, of the Sheriff's Department, discusses the shooting death of Jose Guerena. .


..The Pima County Regional SWAT team fired 71 shots in seven seconds at a Tucson man they say pointed a gun at officers serving a search warrant at his home.

Jose Guerena, 26, a former Marine who served in Iraq twice, was holding an AR-15 rifle when he was killed, but he never fired a shot, the Sheriff's Department said Monday after initially saying he had fired on officers during last week's raid.

Six days after Guerena was shot, few details about the investigation that brought the SWAT team to the southwest-side home Guerena shared with his wife and their two young sons are known. Guerena's role in the narcotics investigation is unclear and deputies would not comment on what was seized from his home.

Three other homes within a quarter of a mile from Guerena's house, were served search warrants related to the investigation that morning. The addresses and the names of people who live in the other homes have not been made public.

Vanessa Guerena says she heard noise outside their home about 9 a.m. Thursday and woke her husband who had just gone to bed after working a 12-hour shift at the Asarco Mine, she said. There were no sirens or shouts of "police," she said.

Guerena told his wife and son to hide inside a closet and he grabbed the AR-15 rifle, his wife said.

The department says SWAT members were clear when identifying themselves while entering the home.

"Tucson is notorious for home invasions and we didn't want to look like that," said Lt. Michael O'Connor of the Pima County Sheriff's Department. "We went lights and sirens and we absolutely did not do a 'no-knock' warrant."

When five SWAT members broke through the front door Guerena was crouched down pointing the gun at them, said O'Connor.

"The suspect said, 'I've got something for you,' when he saw them," O'Connor said. Guerena's wife denied he said that.

Deputies began shooting.

A deputy's bullet struck the side of the doorway, causing chips of wood to fall on his shield. That prompted some members of the team to think the deputy had been shot, O'Connor said.

The Sheriff's Department put in a call to Drexel Heights fire at 9:43 a.m. requesting assistance with a shooting. But crews were told to hold off.

Guerena was dead by the time they were allowed in the house, fire officials said.

Vanessa Guerena vividly remembers seeing her wounded husband.

"When I came out the officers dragged me through the kitchen and took me outside, and that's when I saw him laying there gasping for air," Vanessa Guerena said. "I kept begging the officers to call an ambulance that maybe he could make it and that my baby was still inside."

The little boy soon after walked out of the closet on his own. SWAT members took him outside to be with his mother.

"I never imagined I would lose him like that, he was badly injured but I never thought he could be killed by police after he served his country," Vanessa Guerena said.

The family's 5-year-old son was at school that morning and deputies say they thought Guerena's wife and his other child would also be gone when they entered the home.

Guerena says there were no drugs in their house.

Deputies said they seized a "large sum of money from another house" that morning. But they refused to say from which of the homes searched that morning they found narcotics, drug ledgers or drug paraphernalia. Court documents showing what was being sought and was found have not been made public. A computer check on Guerena revealed a couple of traffic tickets and no criminal history.

Guerena was a Tucson native and Flowing Wells High School graduate. He joined the U.S. Marines in 2002. He served two tours in Iraq in 2003 and 2005 as part of the Yuma-based MWSS-173 under direct supervision of Master Sgt. Leo Verdugo.

Verdugo was with Guerena's family Tuesday afternoon. He gave them a Marine Corps jacket and gloves to use at Guerena's burial.

"He was an excellent Marine, with a bright future ahead of him," Verdugo said.

"We had just bought a home and he was working graveyard shifts and overtime just to help pay the bills, we were just starting to make this house our home," Vanessa Guerena said.

"I know I can't have him back but I want justice. I want explanations for what happened," she said.

Contact reporter Fernanda Echavarri at fechavarri@azstarnet.com or 573-4224.


________________________ ________________________ _____________-


Unbelievable.   I wish I was on the jury for this.  I would vote for the death penalty for every one of these murderous disgusting pigs. 


   


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: whork25 on May 12, 2011, 05:17:35 AM
Wonder why these "bravest" are not going after bloods, crips, ms-13, vatos loco, etc?   


We all know why now don't we.   Fucking pussies. 

Thank you
Fuck these pricks
Agree 100%
Seen to many times. These fuckers are all though when they outnumber some guy but when there is a risk they themselves may be in danger they dont do shit.
Somehow they always feel thretened and forced to act violently when the opponent is a easy prey. But when their opponent is some who might actually be a threat  somehow they always keep cool. Fuck em i hope they get their entitlements and pentions cut


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 14, 2011, 10:30:21 AM
SWAT raid fatal drama is revealed in 911 call
Story
Audio
Fernanda Echavarri Arizona Daily Star | Posted: Saturday, May 14, 2011 12:15 am
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Submitted Photo
Jose Guerena
Related Audio Clips


The wife of a Tucson man killed in a Pima County SWAT raid May 5 pleaded for five minutes with 911 dispatchers to send an ambulance for her mortally wounded husband, audio records show.
Often through tears and sometimes in broken English, Vanessa Guerena, tells 911 operators that her husband had been shot by a "bunch of people" who opened the door of their southwest-side home and "just shoot him." Meanwhile, dispatchers worked to determine if she was calling from a house where the SWAT team was serving a search warrant, audio released Friday by Drexel Heights Fire Department reveals. It takes about an hour for waiting medics to know what happened, and the man is dead before fire crews are allowed into the home.
Jose Guerena, 26, a former Marine, was sleeping after the graveyard shift at Asarco Mission mine about 9:30 a.m. when his wife woke him saying she heard noises outside and a man was at their window. Guerena told his wife to hide in a closet with their 4-year-old son, his wife has said. He grabbed an AR-15 rifle and moments later was slumped in the kitchen, mortally wounded from a hail of gunfire.
For about five minutes after Guerena was shot, his wife stays on the phone trying to explain what happened and asking for an ambulance.
More than a week later, few details about the investigation that brought the SWAT team to the home Guerena shared with his wife and their two young sons are known. Details of the search warrant have not been made public and deputies would not comment on what was seized from the home.
The Pima County Sheriff's Department has provided no details about the investigation that prompted the raid and little information about the moments leading up to 71 gunshots being fired at Guerena, whose gun had the safety on. He was shot 60 times, doctors told the family. Initially the Sheriff's Department said Guerena fired at officers, but they retracted that this week. Drexel Heights provided audio of the 911 calls after the Star filed a public records request.
Vanessa Guerena, 27, continuously asks the operator to "please, please" send somebody to help her husband in a call in which she seems desperate, frustrated and panicked and says she could hear people talking outside.
About a minute into the 911 call a dispatcher who says she is with the Sheriff's Department comes on and asks if the SWAT team was at her house. Guerena sounds confused, and says her husband isn't talking to her anymore. She then talks over two operators who are trying to figure out if the house in the 7100 block of South Redwater Drive is among those targeted to be searched that morning as part of an investigation.
The operator asks again if there were law enforcement officers at her house and Guerena says yes, that they're outside. She then adds that they had come inside earlier, shot her husband and pointed a "big ol' gun" at her. She grabbed her son and worried she would be shot.
"Please send me an ambulance and you can ask more questions later, please!"
Guerena tells the dispatcher that her husband had returned home about 6:30 a.m. after work and was sleeping.
Prompted by the dispatcher, Guerena says her husband was shot in the stomach and hands.
The dispatcher asks Guerena to put her cheek next to her husband's nose and mouth to see if he's breathing, but she replies in Spanish that her husband is face- down.
The operator tells Guerena to grab a cloth and apply pressure to his wounds, but the wife responds frantically: "I can't! I can't! There's a bunch of people outside of my house. I don't know what the heck is happening!"
A dispatcher asks if the people outside are the SWAT members. "I think it's the SWAT, but they ... Oh my God!" Guerena says.
A dispatcher asks that she open the door for the SWAT, but Guerena replies that the door was already opened by police.
"Is anybody coming? Is anybody coming?" she asks.
The operator tells Guerena help is on the way, but they're still trying to figure out what happened.
"I don't know, that's it, whatever I told you, that's it," Guerena says.
Just after the five-minute mark, Guerena's end of the line goes silent.
The two dispatchers spend about four minutes talking to each other and calling out for Guerena while trying to figure out if the call is coming from the same residence where the warrant was served. At the end of the 10-minute 911 call, a dispatcher says she has confirmation that Guerena is outside with deputies on the scene.
Other audio records Drexel Heights released to the Star Friday indicate the agency dispatched a medical unit at 9:43 a.m. but was told by the Sheriff's Department to hold off.
Dispatchers said there were several addresses where the SWAT team was going that morning and they were not sure if this house was one of them, the audio shows.
The Sheriff's Department dispatcher said she had not received any requests for medical help from deputies on scene. Drexel Heights fire dispatcher asked: "You don't want us going in, right?" The sheriff's operator then said: "I don't know what is going on. You guys go ahead and hold off until we know what it's going to be."

The Sheriff's Department operator said people at the scene wanted the medical help to stay back because they might be dealing with a "barricaded subject."

Three other homes within a quarter mile of the Guerena house were served search warrants that morning as part of the sheriff's investigation. The addresses and the names of people who live in the homes have not been made public. However, the Sheriff's Department has said they found drugs and money.
Guerena was a Tucson native and Flowing Wells High School graduate. He joined the Marines in 2002. He served two tours in Iraq in 2003 and 2005 as part of the Yuma-based MWSS-173.
 
Contact reporter Fernanda Echavarri at fechavarri@azstarnet.com or 573-4224.


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 15, 2011, 03:10:43 AM
West Point grad shot, killed at Nevada Costco
united states military academy at west point 12 July 2010 | 0 Comments

From the Las Vegas Review-Journal:

The man shot by police outside a Summerlin Costco store on Saturday was a graduate of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point with a master’s degree from Duke University, friends said.

Army veteran Erik Scott, 39, was at the store near Charleston Boulevard and the Las Vegas Beltway with his girlfriend before three officers fatally shot him in a confrontation.

Friends and an attorney speaking on behalf of Scott’s relatives, described him as a good man from a military family. His father was in the Air Force, and his grandfather fought in World War II, friend Mike Pusateri said.

“The most loyal, honest, trustworthy, salt-of-the-earth guy you could meet,” said Pusateri, 38. “You only meet one or two of those kinds of guys in your life, and Erik is one of them.”

Scott worked for Boston Scientific, a medical devices manufacturer, as a sales representative for the company’s pacemakers. Attorney Ross Goodman, who represents Scott’s family, said Scott was one of the company’s top sales employees.

Pusateri and Goodman said Scott and his girlfriend were at the Costco because they were moving in together and wanted to buy the things they needed. The two men declined to discuss the events that led to the shooting.

According to Las Vegas police, officers were called to 801 S. Pavilion Center Drive at 12:47 p.m. by a store worker who said a man was destroying merchandise. Police were told the man had a gun.

Capt. Patrick Neville described Scott as “kind of going berserk.” Workers evacuated the store. Officers stopped Scott outside as the customers were leaving.

Neville said an officer tapped the man on the shoulder and identified himself as police. Scott then spun around and reached for a gun, law enforcement officials said.

“They ordered him to the ground,” Neville said of the officers on Saturday. “He does not comply with that order. He reaches for the weapon, pulls the weapon out, at which time, the weapon was out of the waistband.”

Three officers fired multiple times, killing Scott.

One witness interviewed Saturday and three others interviewed Sunday by the Review-Journal gave accounts that differed from what police described.

With a few minor variations, the witnesses recounted matching sequences of events. The witnesses interviewed did not see what happened inside the store that prompted workers to call police. Three of the witnesses, upset by the event, asked that their names not be published.

Once Scott was outside, none of the witnesses saw him brandish a weapon or make any movement that would seem like he was brandishing a weapon.

The first witness already had made his purchases and was waiting in line for a worker to check his receipt when he saw an officer enter the store. The officer whispered something to the worker checking the receipts. The first witness then heard that employee turn to another employee and say, “He said we should let him through.”

The four witnesses described a calm rush of customers exiting the front of the store after Costco workers told everyone to leave.

Attorney David Amesbury said he arrived in time to see shoppers leaving. He described the customer exodus as being “like the aftermath of Disneyland.”

A customer told Amesbury that he couldn’t go in, so the attorney waited on a bench west of the entrance. He said he had a clear view of two officers standing beside the entrance with their guns drawn.

All four witnesses said they were within 20 feet of the store’s main entrance. They said Scott walked out of the entrance with the crowd.

They described an officer shouting at Scott, then a quick succession of gunshots.

The witnesses differed in their recollection of what one of the officers said.

Amesbury heard, “I told you to stop. Stop.”

Two witnesses interviewed Sunday heard, “Drop it.”

A fourth witness, interviewed Saturday, heard, “Get down,” “Put it down,” or “Get out of the way.”

A second anonymous witness said Sunday he saw Scott pull up his shirt and turn toward the shouting officer. Then he saw the man get shot, drop to his knees and fall face-first in front of the entrance.

“There wasn’t even time for someone to react,” the second witness said. “The guy didn’t pull a gun. There was no gun in his hand, there was no gun on the ground.”

The second witness said he was interviewed by homicide detectives and gave them the same account.

The first anonymous witness also didn’t see Scott make a threat.

“I certainly did not see the guy do anything with a gun that would threaten anybody,” the first witness said Sunday. “It appeared to me that if he had guns on him, that they were literally in his pocket or in his waist.”

The first witness also was interviewed by homicide detectives about the shooting.

Amesbury said he did not see the man get shot, but, “When I go around the corner, I see this guy laid out. I didn’t see a gun.” Amesbury’s view of the shooting was blocked by stone pillars. He was not interviewed by police.

Before the shooting, Scott was walking with a woman that three witnesses thought was his girlfriend. They said she became distraught after the shooting. The incident also left the witnesses shaken.

It’s just incredible “with all these people around that Metro would provoke something there,” the second witness said. “I don’t want to second-guess the police, but wouldn’t it have been better to confront him out at his car?”

After the shooting, some people in the crowd panicked. An elderly woman was knocked down and cut her elbow in the chaos, the second witness said.

Only Scott was struck by gunfire .

Police said Scott had two handguns on him when he was shot. Goodman said Scott had a concealed-weapons permit.

Pusateri said his friend was a “safety freak” around guns. He said that “absolutely not in a million years” would Scott be careless with them around others.

Scott graduated from West Point, in New York, in 1994 and was stationed for a time at Fort Hood, Texas, as a tank platoon leader. In 2003, he graduated from Duke University in North Carolina with a master’s degree in business administration.

Friends said they noticed nothing strange about Scott in the days before the shooting.

On Friday, Scott’s vehicle was struck by another vehicle while he was rushing a pacemaker to Summerlin Hospital Medical Center, Pusateri said. Scott was not injured in the collision, and a firefighter took the device from the crash scene to the hospital, he said.

Friends were distraught and puzzled as to why police shot and killed Scott.

“He’s a stand-up guy in the community,” Goodman said. “This guy is not somebody to put himself in a situation like that.”

Pusateri, who also sells medical devices, said Scott worked closely with patients in his job. He called Scott’s job the “pinnacle” of the business.

“It’s very, very sad,” Pusateri said. “I’m shocked by it. It’s the tragic loss of a great man.”

Contact reporter Lawrence Mower at lmower@reviewjournal.com or


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 15, 2011, 03:17:44 AM
Atlanta Woman, 88, Shot Dead in Drug Raid

Posted by Tim Lynch

Today’s New York Times reports on another drug raid gone awry.  Kathryn Johnston thought criminals were breaking into her home–so she retrieved a handgun and shot at the people who were at her front door.  As it turns out, the men at the door were cops on a drug raid.  The officers were wounded, but they returned fire and killed Ms. Johnston.  According to the Times report, the cops involved may have lied to get the search warrant and may have lied about the shooting afterward.  These incidents are far more common than most people believe, as this Cato raidmap shows.

Tim Lynch • November 28, 2006 @ 12:01 pm
Filed under: General; Law and Civil Liberties
 Www.Cato.org




Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Hugo Chavez on May 15, 2011, 03:46:43 AM
I guess there is no comment from the morons that were all for this shit....


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 15, 2011, 03:48:29 AM
I guess there is no comment from the morons that were all for this shit....

The drug war is total bullshit.   


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Deicide on May 15, 2011, 04:07:16 AM
I agree with this.  Cops had to make a split second decision. 

Anything to support state authority, right Beach? ::)


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 15, 2011, 04:12:56 AM
I don't support this swat crap.   It's pure bullshit.   


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Hugo Chavez on May 15, 2011, 04:31:30 AM
Anything to support state authority, right Beach? ::)
bb is pure neocon but doesn't even know what that means, what do you expect?


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 15, 2011, 04:32:51 AM
Just once I'm hoping for some dude like in the professional to take out a whole swat team when one of these bullshit no knock warrants go to the wrong house and terrorize some innocent family. 

Until that happens, these jackboots and bitches w badges will only get worse.


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Hugo Chavez on May 15, 2011, 04:39:42 AM
Just once I'm hoping for some dude like in the professional to take out a whole swat team when one of these bullshit no knock warrants go to the wrong house and terrorize some innocent family. 

Until that happens, these jackboots and bitches w badges will only get worse.

great movie


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 15, 2011, 04:39:56 AM
Oh another thing - guess who is the pofs sheriff in pima county?   Take a long guess? 

No other than that disgusting fat pofs dupnik who trashed rush limbaugh, blamed talk radio for the giffords shooting etc. 

The far left pofs posters on this site like benny and blacken were praising that scumbag to the hilt for that.  Ill bet they won't say shit about this dead marine at the hands of the states' modern say praetorian guard. 


Title: Re: Police are Out of Control - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 15, 2011, 06:42:44 AM
Co-defendant: High-ranking cop stole from hookers
San Francisco Chronicle ^ | May 14, 2011 | Justin Berton




PLEASANT HILL -- The former commander of a law enforcement task force in Contra Costa County robbed prostitutes whose operations were competing with his own brothel in Pleasant Hill, his co-defendant in a drug theft case told investigators.

The former commander, ex-state Department of Justice agent Norman Wielsch, said prostitutes and drug dealers deserved to have their money stolen, said Christopher Butler, a private eye in Concord and Wielsch's former colleague on the Antioch police force.

In a 34-page narrative that he wrote for investigators detailing his alleged criminal exploits and obtained by The Chronicle, Butler also said a woman accused of prostitution had told him that she had sex with Wielsch in exchange for having charges against her reduced.

In 2009, at Wielsch's suggestion, the woman helped the task force commander and private eye set up a massage parlor on Gregory Lane in Pleasant Hill that fronted for a brothel, Butler said.

Wielsch, 50, and Butler, 49, were charged in February with stealing drugs from evidence lockers in Contra Costa and selling them. Separately, Butler has been charged with arranging the false drunken-driving arrests of men who were targets of his investigations firm. Wielsch and Butler have pleaded not guilty.

Lawyer's denial

.......


(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Roger Bacon on May 15, 2011, 06:48:41 AM
You're quickly becoming one of my favorites! Keep up the good work 333386!


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 15, 2011, 06:57:54 AM
You're quickly becoming one of my favorites! Keep up the good work 333386!

I try to be as honest as I know how to be.   I know sometimes I piss off some of the real  GOP or Bust types, and obviously piss off the far left commie types, I only go by my own experiences in lower westchester (Yonkers, New Ro., Mt. Vernon) as well as NYC (Bronx, Brooklyn) experiences for my belief system.

I grew up with a ton of terrible people.  About 35% became cops, 15% firemen, 10% mafia, 20% moved away, 20% the rest of us.

I know the deal all too well.  The guys I grew up with who became cops are far worse than those who pursued crime as a living.   I say this regrettably as I was and am still friendly with a lot of them.   Every single firehouse and police station in Yonkers is littered with BMW's, mercedes, etc.  Coincendece?   Hardly.   

The cops I know, and have known since 10 y/o, are worse than any gangster you will ever see on tv.   I'm not kidding.   I have seen and have been witness to things that would make the average taxpayer puke for months. 

                         


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 15, 2011, 07:16:11 AM
What is funny is that people like Benny, mal, Blacken, et al attack me endlessly for attacking Obama.   what they dont grasp is that obama is part of the police, tyranny, authoritarian  police state, than anyone.   

Because obama has darker skin than bush, these I D I O T S like benny, mal, blacken, straw, etc, think he has their interests at heart.  They are suckers and dupes.   People like Judge. Nap., RP, Celente, etc know the deal, yet because of racial alliegiance, the suckers still follow obama.         


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Roger Bacon on May 15, 2011, 07:25:03 AM
What is funny is that people like Benny, mal, Blacken, et al attack me endlessly for attacking Obama.   what they dont grasp is that obama is part of the police, tyranny, authoritarian  police state, than anyone.   

Because obama has darker skin than bush, these I D I O T S like benny, mal, blacken, straw, etc, think he has their interests at heart.  They are suckers and dupes.   People like Judge. Nap., RP, Celente, etc know the deal, yet because of racial alliegiance, the suckers still follow obama.         

I've got an aunt that loved Obama, it boggles my mind.  What's truly strange, is the worse Obama gets or the stranger his policy the more she supports him.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: garebear on May 15, 2011, 07:33:46 AM
What is funny is that people like Benny, mal, Blacken, et al attack me endlessly for attacking Obama.   what they dont grasp is that obama is part of the police, tyranny, authoritarian  police state, than anyone.   

Because obama has darker skin than bush, these I D I O T S like benny, mal, blacken, straw, etc, think he has their interests at heart.  They are suckers and dupes.   People like Judge. Nap., RP, Celente, etc know the deal, yet because of racial alliegiance, the suckers still follow obama.         
You get so convoluted when you try to tie shit to the left.

Just because you really want something to be doesn't make it so.

You should be more honest with yourself.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 15, 2011, 07:35:22 AM
I've got an aunt that loved Obama, it boggles my mind.  What's truly strange, is the worse Obama gets or the stranger his policy the more she supports him.

1 My dad called me last night.  Cops has a check point in yonkers last mnight license and reg.  My dad is like 65 y/o old school - and said to the cop -
 
" Whats going on a hostage sitation?"   told me the cop was totally rude to him and my mom and was a dick about the the license and registration, etc.  my dad has busted his ass his whole life and the thought of some pofs cop being rude to him makes me want to take that asshole out on the spot.   i'm sick of cops.  99.9% of them are pofs assholes in need of getting KTFO'd for about 5 months straight, and then, maybe they get their badge back.   I say this as someone who knows dozens of cops and go to their houses for BBQ's etc.   I know cops who stage drug busts to frame people, place guns on scenes, rip security cameras out wall to hide the assaults they commit on people, hide in the squad car, etc.

If someone is looking for me to be sympathetic to cops - sorry charlie.    When I see these lazy grossly overpaid thugs with guns get out of the car and treat the general public with some dignity and respect, I will change my mind.      
  
Did you ever see My KRS 1 thread on obama?

He nailed it more than anyone.

Check this out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-12MTDarTc        


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 15, 2011, 07:36:44 AM
You get so convoluted when you try to tie shit to the left.

Just because you really want something to be doesn't make it so.

You should be more honest with yourself.

Yawn - Sheriff Dupmick, DA Niphong anyone?   


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Dos Equis on May 15, 2011, 07:57:59 AM
Anything to support state authority, right Beach? ::)

Nope.  Never said that. 


Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Dos Equis on May 15, 2011, 07:58:52 AM
bb is pure neocon but doesn't even know what that means, what do you expect?

Neither do you nor a lot of other people.  So now it means "police state"?  lol . . . .


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: garebear on May 15, 2011, 08:01:33 AM
If you want to argue that the US is a police state, the biggest piece of evidence is the incarceration rate.

No one on Earth now or in history has put its people in prison like us. It really is out of control.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 15, 2011, 08:04:46 AM
If you want to argue that the US is a police state, the biggest piece of evidence is the incarceration rate.

No one on Earth now or in history has put its people in prison like us. It really is out of control.

Agreed 10000000000000000000000%


Its totally ridiculous.   Jail needs to be reserved for violent criminals ans little else.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 15, 2011, 11:28:08 AM
Teacher cleared of sex assault reveals his nightmare
dailymail.co.uk ^ | 5-15-11 | Katie Silver





A PE teacher falsely accused of molesting a 12-year-old schoolgirl has spoken of his pain at telling his children he was going to be arrested.

Sean Lanigan was pulled out of a class in Fairfax, Virginia, and told he was going to be arrested for allegedly carrying out the offences.

In reality his 'crimes' had been invented and the schoolgirl bore a grudge against him.

Despite being cleared of all the offences, the teacher’s $125,000 legal fees still haven’t been repaid by the state and he is struggling to get his life back.

The young girl claimed that the teacher had taken him into the gym and said he was going to ‘treat her like a Queen’ and briefly groped her.

This line, it turns out is a lyric from one or her favourite music bands, the Ataris.

He had told his ‘victim’ off for being abusive on the school bus and the girl apparently told her friends: ‘Mr Lanigan’s a jerk. I’m going to make him pay.’

When it came to trial, the jury took only 47 minutes to decide he was not guilty. Such a short deliberation in a child sex abuse case is extremely rare.


They described it as an ‘easy decision’ since ‘there was no evidence.


(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: RUDE BUOY on May 15, 2011, 11:31:05 AM
unreal


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 15, 2011, 11:42:47 AM
Raw video: Sheriff's Office interview on fatal SWAT raid
KGUN9 ^ | 5/13/2011 | Jim Shields, Forrest Carr


________________________ ________________________ ________



This week, KGUN9 News reporter Joel Waldman interviewed Pima Co. Sheriff's Department Lt. Michael O'Connor about the shooting of Jose Guerena, who died last week when a SWAT team tried to serve a search warrant at his Tucson home. The victim's wife Vanessa has stated that neither she nor her husband knew that the people breaking into her home were deputies. She said that her husband, who pointed a rifle at deputies, was only trying to defend himself. Guarena never got off a shot. But SWAT team members fired a total of at least 71 rounds, leaving the home riddled with holes. Ms. Guerena was hiding in a closet at the time with one of the couple's children. Neither was hurt.

A clip of raw video from that interview is presented in the Video Gallery at left. Below are selected quotes from the interview.

O'Connor: "This case involves a narcotics conspiracy case, which means that we are looking for a lot of different narcotics related material. That can be drug ledgers, scales, anything that would be in furtherance of this narcotics conspiracy. And it involved all four residents that we were looking at in that quarter mile of so of each other."


(Excerpt) Read more at kgun9.com ...



________________________ ________________________ ___________


I hope this woman bankrupts the city and every pofs cop in that whole county personally for what they did.     


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 15, 2011, 11:49:11 AM
http://www.kgun9.com/story/14643812/this-case-involves-a-narcotics-conspiracy-case-which-means-that-we-are-looking-for-a-lot-of-different-narcotics-related-material-that-can-be-drug?redirected=true#



Unbelievable.  And cops wonder why the geneeral public hates them?   GMAFB.   Bitches and Bullshitters w Badges.   

Until a few of these happen - nothing will change.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmkrPWQCmIU


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skeletor on May 15, 2011, 12:01:14 PM
Teacher cleared of sex assault reveals his nightmare
dailymail.co.uk ^ | 5-15-11 | Katie Silver





A PE teacher falsely accused of molesting a 12-year-old schoolgirl has spoken of his pain at telling his children he was going to be arrested.

Sean Lanigan was pulled out of a class in Fairfax, Virginia, and told he was going to be arrested for allegedly carrying out the offences.

In reality his 'crimes' had been invented and the schoolgirl bore a grudge against him.

Despite being cleared of all the offences, the teacher’s $125,000 legal fees still haven’t been repaid by the state and he is struggling to get his life back.

The young girl claimed that the teacher had taken him into the gym and said he was going to ‘treat her like a Queen’ and briefly groped her.

This line, it turns out is a lyric from one or her favourite music bands, the Ataris.

He had told his ‘victim’ off for being abusive on the school bus and the girl apparently told her friends: ‘Mr Lanigan’s a jerk. I’m going to make him pay.’

When it came to trial, the jury took only 47 minutes to decide he was not guilty. Such a short deliberation in a child sex abuse case is extremely rare.


They described it as an ‘easy decision’ since ‘there was no evidence.


(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...



Insane, this person will never truly get his life back and will always carry the stain. (And the little shit that accused him will probably claim in the future she's been "traumatized" by the whole process).


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 15, 2011, 12:03:35 PM
I blame all levels of law enforcement for shit like this.  I had it happen to a friend of mine who was ultimately cleared on appeal, but it ruined his life.   

I handled all the way up to trial, and the cops and DA were unbelievable in how they handled it.  Truly disgusting.   

Presumption of innocence my ass.     


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skeletor on May 15, 2011, 12:07:38 PM
33 do you have inquest panels in NY for cases were cops are involved?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 15, 2011, 12:17:00 PM
33 do you have inquest panels in NY for cases were cops are involved?

I don't handle that much criminal stuff.  my buddy was framed by a corrupt detective looking for a huge civil settlement for his lying daughter and it was obvious.   the DA's knew it was bogus and just pushed it along and the daughter lied her ass off the stand and the judge bougt it.

It was tossed outr on appeal and upon a tape later surfacing showig it was impossible for him to have done it.   It was unbelievable. 

Honestly - I have ZERO respect for 99% of cops, DA's, law enforcement in general.

Most law enforcement in this country is nothing more than a well financed street gang and organized crime cartel.   
________________________ _____________________-


 
San Ramon officer delays plea to charges stemming from CNET scandal
By Robert Salonga
Contra Costa Times
Posted: 05/13/2011 10:04:48 AM PDT
Updated: 05/13/2011 12:02:05 PM PDT



Click photo to enlarge
San Ramon police officer Louis Lombardi arrived in Department 20 courtroom in Martinez, Calif....«1»MARTINEZ -- A San Ramon officer's newly hired attorney delayed a plea Friday to corruption charges in a growing scandal involving the sale of drugs stolen from police evidence.

Louis Lombardi, 38, became the latest law enforcement member ensnared in a widening corruption probe when he was arrested last week and his Discovery Bay home searched. Prosecutors charged him with five felonies May 6, alleging he sold drugs to confidential informants and embezzled cash, drugs and guns from police seizures.

Lombardi appeared in a Martinez courtroom Friday wearing a gray pinstriped suit and was clean-shaven; he had a mustache when he was arraigned. His next scheduled court appearance is May 19 in Walnut Creek alongside three defendants who have been previously charged. He has hired Concord-based attorney Dirk Manoukian.

"I'm anxious to see the discovery and separate fact from fiction," Manoukian said outside a Martinez courthouse. "Mr. Lombardi is anxious to look at the discovery and start sifting through it."

Lombardi is free after posting $500,000 bail last week; prosecutors have asked the court to determine if that money was illegally obtained. He declined to answer reporters' questions and remains on administrative leave from the San Ramon Police Department.

His arrest was part of an ongoing, wide-ranging investigation by both the District Attorney's Office and state Department of Justice that surfaced with the February arrests of Norman Wielsch,


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Advertisement
 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
former commander of the Central Contra Costa Narcotics Enforcement Team (CNET), and Christopher Butler, a former Concord-based private investigator. Wielsch and Butler are accused of multiple felony counts based on allegations they conspired to sell drugs confiscated in police raids.

Wielsch's attorney, Michael Cardoza, said last week that Lombardi's arrest was connected to Butler's activities but his alleged crimes appear to have stronger ties to Wielsch and CNET. Lombardi was a CNET agent from 2004 to 2009 during his tenure with the Contra Costa County Sheriff's Office.

Prosecutors say Lombardi stole money from at least three seizures, and in 2007 solicited a confidential informant to burglarize a building that he had executed a search warrant on to steal money. Prosecutors have asked the court to keep secret the identity of several informants they say Lombardi has threatened.

Since his drug arrest, Butler has also been charged with conspiring with former Danville officer Stephen Tanabe based on allegations they set up men for DUI arrests to tarnish their standing for upcoming divorce and child custody hearings. Tanabe has also been served with drug and bribery charges.

Butler, 49, Wielsch, 50, and Tanabe, 47, are all out on bail and have pleaded not guilty to their charges. All three served on the Antioch police force in the 1990s. Lombardi, authorities said, became friends with Butler from his mutual connection to Wielsch.

On Wednesday, it was revealed that in a typewritten confession of sorts that has not been released publicly, Butler accused Wielsch of using his expertise and influence as head of CNET to run a short-lived brothel out of a Pleasant Hill storefront between 2009 and 2010. Wielsch's attorney said it was Butler who operated the brothel and that the allegation was offered as a way to negotiate a lighter prison sentence.

Robert Salonga covers public safety. Contact him at 925-943-8013. Follow him at Twitter.com/robertsalonga.



   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 15, 2011, 12:24:18 PM
Here is a pic of the marine these disgusting assholes gunned down.   I wish I were on that jury - I would pull the lever myself.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 16, 2011, 08:41:43 AM
In bad economy, drivers buckling under traffic tickets
St. Pete Times ^ | Monday, May 16, 2011 | By Michael Van Sickler, Times Staff Writer


________________________ ________________________ __



Rosemary Smith saw the motorcycle cop's flashing lights behind her, and her eyes immediately started to well up.

She was going 17 mph over the speed limit and faced a $256 fine, the officer told her after she pulled into a parking lot off Fourth Street N.

As she fought back tears, her life story spilled out. She was a full-time college student, her only income from part-time work as a bank teller. She had a wedding coming up in November.

"I've got house bills to pay," said Smith, 21, visibly shaken as she clutched the wheel of her blue Saturn. "I'm freaking out."

Motorists complaining about tickets is nothing new for traffic cops. But officers say they are sensing growing distress.

"A day doesn't go by when I don't see someone cry," said Officer Mauricio Steffek. "They can't believe how much the ticket costs. They'll tell me, 'Give me a break. I don't have a job now. I'm falling behind the mortgage or car payments.' "

Once a minor, if stressful, inconvenience, the everyday traffic citation is becoming a life altering breaking point for many.

And more and more, drivers aren't paying them — creating a ripple effect in city and county budgets across Tampa Bay.

In St. Petersburg, the money collected from traffic tickets has dropped from $681,000 in 2008 to $494,214 in 2010. It's projected to dwindle even further this year — despite the fact that police handed out 1,500 more tickets last year than they did in 2008.

"It's a drastic drop that means we have to find revenue from other places," said Tim Finch, St. Petersburg's director of budget and management. "It makes it tougher on other departments."

Pinellas County has seen its ticket revenue fall by $700,000 in two years. In Tampa, police estimate they will bring in $900,000 less than they did in 2008. In Hillsborough, fine collections are down nearly $3 million since 2008.

"It's directly related to the economy," said Hillsborough Clerk of Courts Pat Frank. "People are being more cautious because they can't afford it. And police officers are more reluctant to give out tickets when the fines are more costly."

In recent years, Florida's tax adverse politicians have raised fees to generate new revenue. Traffic law-flouting motorists are a tempting target because they don't garner public sympathy.

State lawmakers in 2009 approved new measures to produce more than $63 million, all from the pockets of wayward motorists. Included: a new $10 charge on all traffic infractions, cutting an 18 percent discount for attending traffic school, and a $25 increase for exceeding the speed limit by 15 to 29 mph.

Local governments tack on more charges. In Pinellas County, for instance, each citation can get assessed an extra $30 for court costs; $3 for driver education safety programs; $3 for teen court; and $2 to pay for public safety applicant screenings.

Tickets range from $62 for a bicycle infraction to $456 for traveling 20 to 29 mph over the limit in a school or construction zone. If a driver is hit with multiple violations, such as speeding, not wearing a seat belt and having an expired tag, fines can climb to nearly $700.

In times like these, a ticket can be a severe blow to those living paycheck to paycheck.

Officers have the discretion to waive the ticket if they think the driver would be better served with a warning. Traffic cops like to say it's about public safety, not the money.

On a recent Tuesday morning, Steffek listened to Smith's tale of woe. He called up her driving history. Clean. He decided to waive the fine.

"It would have been hard for me to pay," said Smith, grateful and smiling.

As she drove away, Steffek said he had imagined himself in her predicament.

"She was shaking really bad," he said. "She was scared."

• • •

Pain felt by drivers is so evident their biggest supporters are often the cops who stop them.

"Our deputies feel that because of the way the economy is, they give out a lot more warnings," said Detective Larry McKinnon, Hillsborough sheriff's spokesman.

Same with Pinellas.

"We're very aware of some of the cost," said spokeswoman Marianne Pasha. "If there is an opportunity to write a warning, rather than write a citation, that's what we'll do."

In many cases, deputies won't write multiple citations like they did in the past. If someone with a clean driving record is caught speeding without wearing a seat belt, McKinnon said, they'll be cited for a seat belt violation.

"We're more tolerant," he said. "People have lost their jobs and are struggling. A lot of times you'll see families in the car. How do you write someone a $700 ticket when they have a carload of kids?"

Empathy comes with a price.

Pinellas is on track to write 2,000 fewer tickets than it did two years ago. Hillsborough tickets dropped by 40,000 from 2008 to 2010. Not all of that stemmed from deputies waiving tickets, McKinnon said.

The other reason also is economic: There are fewer deputies out there writing tickets.

In St. Petersburg, police are handing out more tickets than ever, but fewer people are paying, said Lt. William Korinek, who oversees traffic enforcement.

"People are saying that the tickets are too expensive," Korinek said. "For the most part, they're not criminals. They're people like you and me, average people going about their day. "

On a recent Tuesday, Chris Robinson, a retired 64-year-old, was running errands when he was stopped for speeding.

He was going 48 mph in a 35 mph zone. The fine: $206.

"I can't pay it," Robinson said as his shoulders sagged and he cradled his face in his hand. "I'm on a fixed income. It's going to kill me."

Fined drivers can pay the full sum within 30 days, or spread the fine out in six monthly installments.

An increasingly popular option: People can work off the debt with community service.

"Economic conditions are driving that," said Hazel Bure, director of the court and operational services at the Pinellas County Clerk of Court. "The traffic fines are very high."

Drivers calculate the hours they need to work for a nonprofit by dividing the fine by the $7.25 hourly minimum wage. A $206 fine would be almost 29 hours. The fine isn't waived until the courts get a verification letter from the nonprofit.

The option is a boon to groups like Habitat for Humanity. Since 2008, the nonprofit has seen the number of people volunteering to pay off tickets double to about 12 a week, said Kevin Klucas, the group's volunteer coordinator.

"It works well for us, and hopefully becomes a good experience for them, too," Klucas said.

While some turn the experience into a productive one, officials say others let a ticket disrupt their lives. If a fine isn't paid, a motorist's driver's license is suspended, a misdemeanor that can mean going to jail. The state doesn't track the number of suspended licenses, but some law enforcement officers say there has been a rise.

A look at Pinellas County jail records show that more than 7,000 people were processed for that charge since 2005.

The majority of those were people arrested on the charge for the second or third time.

• • •

During rush hour last week, Steffek and fellow St. Petersburg Officer Chris Dort stopped more than a dozen drivers in two hours. Nearly everyone fretted about the fine.

"I work hard and make just enough to pay my bills," said Bob Samples, a 47-year-old restaurant worker facing a $206 speeding ticket. John Zurek was looking at $256 for going 17 mph over the limit. A 20-year-old St. Petersburg College student who recently quit his job at a sandwich shop, Zurek said he didn't know where he'd get the money.

Whatever strain motorists are feeling, it may only get worse.

St. Petersburg officials are installing red light cameras to catch offenders and will likely start handing out $158 tickets this summer. Hillsborough County already does. Tampa soon will.

"I feel bad for some of these drivers," Dort said. "People are busy. They're running around, trying to make ends meet. It's real rough out there."



________________________ ________________________ _________

I'm so sick of these asshole cops.   They pull the same shit near me and harass people over everything. 

We have illegals all over the place they dont do dick about yet bust balls from people coming to and from work.   

figures - lazy fat disgusting pofs cops attack easy targets instead of addressing real crime.       


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Bindare_Dundat on May 16, 2011, 08:44:21 AM
I can just about find weekly stories of this type of thing.

(http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2011/0513/20110513__20110514_B02_CD14ERIEDOG~p1.JPG)

Cops called for help with threatening phone call. Cops show up and shoot family dog dead.

Family Dog Killed By Police Officer

Erie Police Officer Feels Threatened, Shoots German Shepherd

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...47/detail.html

ERIE, Colo. -- A call for help to police ends with a family dog getting shot and killed by the responding officer.

Brittany Landis called Erie Police after she said she got a threatening phone call. She said she was on her porch with her two dogs, a 4-year-old German shepherd and an 11-year-old golden retriever, when Officer Jamie Chester approached through her neighbor's yard.

"As soon as I saw him, the dogs also saw him and started just trotting over there, not rushing over there, not barking, not growling, just curious," said Landis.

"The two made contact, eye contact, and the officer put his hand on his weapon," said neighbor Andy Feero. "He said something to the dog, motioning her not to move and then he started walking backwards."

Landis said she called her dog back.

"I said, 'Ava, nein!' -- our German Shepherd was trained in German," said Landis.

Nein is German for no.

"She heard me. She turned and looked at me and the police officer shot her," said Landis. "I started screaming, 'Oh my God! What did you do? What did you do?' He came towards me and said, 'Ma'am, I had to do it. I had to do it.'"

Neighbors Call Shooting 'Senseless'

"It was a senseless shooting. I didn't hear any barking noises out of her until she got shot," said Feero. "I saw the weapon come out and he let her have it -- (from) six feet away."

According to Erie police Lt. Lee Mathis, Chester perceived a threat to his safety and shot the dog to avoid personal injury. Mathis said the officer reported the dog was baring her teeth and had her hair standing up. He told 7NEWS officers have no obligation to get bit by a dog before protecting themselves.

"Before shooting, did the officer say anything?" asked 7NEWS reporter Marshall Zelinger.

"Nothing. No warning. No, 'Get control of your dog.' Not, 'You get your dog or I'm going to shoot,'" said Landis. "To me, that's scary. You have a police officer out on the force that is that quick to draw out his deadly weapon. That's scary."

Family Took Dog To CSU Vet For Necropsy

Landis told 7NEWS the dog's body was taken to Colorado State University for a necropsy. She said she was told Ava was shot through the back.

"I was told it severed her spinal column. And it went through her liver and her lungs; it ended up in abdomen, so it hit a lot of vital organs."

Mathis told 7NEWS the bullet went through the left shoulder of the dog.

"I want justice for my dog, for my family," said Landis.



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 16, 2011, 09:00:40 AM
Like I said - I used to respect law enfocrcement and cops.   No longer.   I really consider them to be 99% pofs no different than the rude scum at the DMV. 

I grew up with one asshole pofs thug who has 5 police brutality civil lawsuits against him for beating the piss out of people.  it has cost the city hundreds of thousands of dollars in settlements.   

Guess what - the jerkoff was promoted to detective. 

I have another friend who is a cop who has broken his hand five times on peoples faces, most of which were cuffed at the time.  He was promoted to detective despite a ton of terrible crap he has done.   


Its awful.   Most people who dont know what goes on think its like Mayberry.  Its not, most police departments are publicly financed street gangs and little else.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Bindare_Dundat on May 16, 2011, 09:16:40 AM
Like I said - I used to respect law enfocrcement and cops.   No longer.   I really consider them to be 99% pofs no different than the rude scum at the DMV. 

I grew up with one asshole pofs thug who has 5 police brutality civil lawsuits against him for beating the piss out of people.  it has cost the city hundreds of thousands of dollars in settlements.   

Guess what - the jerkoff was promoted to detective. 

I have another friend who is a cop who has broken his hand five times on peoples faces, most of which were cuffed at the time.  He was promoted to detective despite a ton of terrible crap he has done.   


Its awful.   Most people who dont know what goes on think its like Mayberry.  Its not, most police departments are publicly financed street gangs and little else.   

At worst they get suspended WITH PAY. wow, what a punishment. ::)


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 16, 2011, 10:47:34 AM
You can find weekly stories about good cops too. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 16, 2011, 07:22:50 PM
Skip to comments.

Long Arm of the Law Penalizes Texans Who Nab Catfish by Hand
WSJ ^ | 16 May 2011 | ANA CAMPOY
Posted on May 16, 2011 10:54:28 PM EDT by Palter

State Noodles With Decriminalizing Fish-Grabbing; Watch Out for the Tail

Brady Knowlton believes it's his inalienable right as a Texan to shove his bare hand into the mouth of a 60-pound catfish and yank it out of a river.

But wrestling a flapping, whiskered giant as it latches onto your arm with its jaws isn't among Texas's accepted methods of capturing fish. It is, rather, a class C misdemeanor, with fines of up to $500.

So Mr. Knowlton, a 30-year-old-private citizen, oilman and outdoor enthusiast here, is pushing a bill in the state Legislature to legalize hand fishing, also known as noodling, grabbing or hogging. Noodlers go into the water, then reach into holes, hollow tree trunks and other underwater nooks to find the fish.

Nothing beats "the heebie-jeebies you get underwater, in the dark, with this little sea monster biting you," he says. He recalls that his arm looked like "the first stage of a chili recipe" after his first noodling experience about 15 years ago. Catfish are equipped with bands of small but very abrasive teeth.

The bill swam easily through the state house, but now rod-and-reel anglers are speaking up against the proposed law, currently in the state Senate.

They say noodling is unfair to the fish, since they're grabbed in their burrows without a chance to swim away.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 17, 2011, 06:57:14 PM
Dupnik won't release more info about SWAT shooting of Tucson man
Arizona Daily Star ^ | May 17, 2011 | Fernanda Echavarri
Posted on May 17, 2011 10:17:28 PM EDT by george76

The Pima County Sheriff’s Department will release no more information about the circumstances surrounding the killing of Jose Guerena during the serving of a search warrant by the department’s SWAT officers May 5 at his home.

Two weeks after the shooting the department has yet to disclose exactly what they were searching for in the Guerena home ...

...

On May 5, five members of the SWAT team fired 71 shots at Guerena while serving a search warrant at the 7100 block of South Redwater Drive. He was shot 60 times.

The 26-year-old former Marine was sleeping at about 9:30 a.m. after working the graveyard shift at Asarco’s Mission Mine when his wife woke him saying she heard noises outside and saw a man was at their window.

(Excerpt) Read more at azstarnet.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 17, 2011, 07:05:56 PM
I certainly don't see them... Maybe once every year or so you might get a "good cop" story.

Cops don't protect shit... They don't stop crime... They just report on it.

I ask everyone who reads this to be honest with themselves and tell me a time when a cop actually HELPED you... I haven't got a SINGLE story and I'm 36 years old.

You guys?

When seconds count, the cops are only minutes away.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: 240 is Back on May 17, 2011, 08:19:16 PM
You can find weekly stories about good cops too. 


???

Do they want a cookie for doing their job correctly?



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 17, 2011, 08:36:45 PM
I certainly don't see them... Maybe once every year or so you might get a "good cop" story.

Cops don't protect shit... They don't stop crime... They just report on it.

I ask everyone who reads this to be honest with themselves and tell me a time when a cop actually HELPED you... I haven't got a SINGLE story and I'm 36 years old.

You guys?

Really?  You live in an awfully small world tu. 

I've had great experiences with law enforcement.  My kids loved the DARE program at their school.  They have been guest speakers in numerous college classes.  I know of numerous examples of cops investigating and arresting criminals.  They helped protect my car when I had a flat tire.

They risk their lives to protect the public. 

Are there bad ones?  Of course.  Every profession has its bad apples.  But there are tons of great people who work in law enforcement. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 17, 2011, 08:37:19 PM

???

Do they want a cookie for doing their job correctly?



I don't know.  Ask them. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: roccoginge on May 18, 2011, 01:25:36 AM
Dupnik won't release more info about SWAT shooting of Tucson man
Arizona Daily Star ^ | May 17, 2011 | Fernanda Echavarri
Posted on May 17, 2011 10:17:28 PM EDT by george76

The Pima County Sheriff’s Department will release no more information about the circumstances surrounding the killing of Jose Guerena during the serving of a search warrant by the department’s SWAT officers May 5 at his home.

Two weeks after the shooting the department has yet to disclose exactly what they were searching for in the Guerena home ...

...

On May 5, five members of the SWAT team fired 71 shots at Guerena while serving a search warrant at the 7100 block of South Redwater Drive. He was shot 60 times.

The 26-year-old former Marine was sleeping at about 9:30 a.m. after working the graveyard shift at Asarco’s Mission Mine when his wife woke him saying she heard noises outside and saw a man was at their window.

(Excerpt) Read more at azstarnet.com ...

I just watched this on the local news here.  I have a dfeeling the cops are going to loose on this one.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 18, 2011, 02:27:16 AM
BB - 99 percent of the ones I grew up w either were or later become thugs and power crazed psychos doing real bad stuff. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 18, 2011, 05:58:10 AM
Indiana Supreme Court rules Hoosiers have no right to resist unlawful entry of homes by police
Hotair ^ | 05/16/2011 | Bruce McQuain


________________________ ________________________ _________-



No, you read it right. That’s what the Indiana Supreme Court decided in what would be a laughable finding if it wasn’t so serious:

Overturning a common law dating back to the English Magna Carta of 1215, the Indiana Supreme Court ruled Thursday that Hoosiers have no right to resist unlawful police entry into their homes.

The author of the story reporting this is right – somehow the ISC managed, in one fell swoop, to overturn almost 900 years of precedent, going back to the Magna Carta.

In a 3-2 decision, Justice Steven David writing for the court said if a police officer wants to enter a home for any reason or no reason at all, a homeowner cannot do anything to block the officer’s entry. [emphasis mine]

Or said another way, your home is no longer your castle.

Remember the 4th Amendment to the US Constitution?

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

Bzzzzzt.

Wrong – in Indiana

“We believe … a right to resist an unlawful police entry into a home is against public policy and is incompatible with modern Fourth Amendment jurisprudence,” David said. “We also find that allowing resistance unnecessarily escalates the level of violence and therefore the risk of injuries to all parties involved without preventing the arrest.”

David said a person arrested following an unlawful entry by police still can be released on bail and has plenty of opportunities to protest the illegal entry through the court system.

One has to wonder what part of “unlawful” Justice David doesn’t get. What part of the right of the people to “be secure… shall not be violated” wasn’t taught to him in law school.

How secure is anyone in their “persons, houses, papers and effects” if, per David, a police officer can waltz into any home he wants to “for any reason or no reason at all?”

The given reason by the Justice is resistance is “against public policy?” What policy is that? For whatever reason, most believe our public policy as regards our homes is set by the 4th amendment to the US Constitution. Since when does Indiana’s “public policy” abrogate the Constitutional right to be “secure in our persons, houses, papers and effects”?

Additionally, most would assume it is the job of the police not to “escalate the level of violence”, not the homeowner. Like maybe a polite knock on a door to attempt an arrest instead of a battering ram and the violent entry of a full SWAT team to arrest a suspected perpetrator of a non-violent crime. Maybe a little pre-raid intelligence gathering, or snagging the alleged perp when he leaves the house to go to work, or walk the dog, or go to the store.

Now citizens in Indiana are to give up their 4th Amendment rights because it might “elevate the violence” if they attempt to protect themselves from unlawful activity? Sounds like the “don’t resist rape” nonsense that was once so popular.

And check out this “analysis”:

Professor Ivan Bodensteiner, of Valparaiso University School of Law, said the court’s decision is consistent with the idea of preventing violence.

“It’s not surprising that they would say there’s no right to beat the hell out of the officer,” Bodensteiner said. “(The court is saying) we would rather opt on the side of saying if the police act wrongfully in entering your house your remedy is under law, to bring a civil action against the officer.”

So we’ll just throw out your 4th amendment right to satisfy the court’s desire to “prevent violence,” is that it?

One hopes the decision is destroyed on appeal and if the Justices are in an elected office they become very “insecure” in their probability of staying there.

The two dissenting Justices got it mostly right:

Justice Robert Rucker, a Gary native, and Justice Brent Dickson, a Hobart native, dissented from the ruling, saying the court’s decision runs afoul of the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

“In my view the majority sweeps with far too broad a brush by essentially telling Indiana citizens that government agents may now enter their homes illegally — that is, without the necessity of a warrant, consent or exigent circumstances,” Rucker said. “I disagree.”

Rucker and Dickson suggested if the court had limited its permission for police entry to domestic violence situations they would have supported the ruling.

But Dickson said, “The wholesale abrogation of the historic right of a person to reasonably resist unlawful police entry into his dwelling is unwarranted and unnecessarily broad.”

I say mostly right because they indicated that in the case of domestic violence, they too were willing to throw the 4th amendment under the bus.

How does one say “it runs afoul of the Fourth Amendment” and then later agree to a partial abrogation of the 4th under certain circumstances? What part of “shall not be violated” don’t they understand? It doesn’t say “shall not be violated except in case of domestic violence” does it?

Oh, and just to point out that this likely isn’t an outlier for this crew:

This is the second major Indiana Supreme Court ruling this week involving police entry into a home.

On Tuesday, the court said police serving a warrant may enter a home without knocking if officers decide circumstances justify it. Prior to that ruling, police serving a warrant would have to obtain a judge’s permission to enter without knocking.

Because, you know, it would be just asking too much to have the police actually justify a no-knock entrance to a judge, wouldn’t it?

Amazing.

And you wonder why you have to constantly protect your rights daily from attacks within?

This is why.




Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 18, 2011, 10:31:02 AM
Wait... You are saying that cops protect people? Who? They protected your CAR? That's what you have?

You think speaking at schools is "helping" people?  Your view of how people are "helped" is what's small.

So you are saying that talking to kids and doing lectures and protecting your car in the event of a flat tire is helping people?

Hahahaha!!!

Hil-ar-ious.



Here is what you asked:  "I ask everyone who reads this to be honest with themselves and tell me a time when a cop actually HELPED you... I haven't got a SINGLE story and I'm 36 years old." 

I just gave you several examples, from personal experience, of cops helping me and other people. 

The fact you claim to be 36 and have never heard of a single instance of a police officer helping someone is alarming.  Do you live in a Michael Jackson bubble?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 18, 2011, 10:33:08 AM
BB - 99 percent of the ones I grew up w either were or later become thugs and power crazed psychos doing real bad stuff. 

33 I can't argue with your personal experience.  I'm sorry you had such bad experiences with those folks.  

I do think it's unreasonable to say that all, or even most, cops are bad because of experiences in your neighborhood.  Just to put this in context, there are over 800,000 people in law enforcement in this country.  Hard to use a broad brush.  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 18, 2011, 10:34:09 AM
You gave one example actually... They watched your car for you.

I do not consider that "helping people" sorry... I can pay a valet attendant 20 bucks and he'll do that all night.

None of the other stuff you mentioned is actually helping people... It's not stopping crime what so ever.

You have a reading comprehension problem.  Go back and read your statement, your question, and my response. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 18, 2011, 10:40:31 AM
I personally grew up with an know today in social settings a cop who have 5 police brutality cases against him.   This guy is a roid freak and is worse than any gangster i have ever met, and what did the police department do for his service and hundreds of thousands of dollars in settlements the taxpayers got stuck with?

They promoted him to detective.

I have another friend who is a cop who is even worse than him who made detective and who in no exaggeration is a one man crime spree all on to himself.     


Their attitude towards the public ?   Treat taxpayers and citizens like utter garbage and dirt.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 18, 2011, 10:43:32 AM
I personally grew up with an know today in social settings a cop who have 5 police brutality cases against him.   This guy is a roid freak and is worse than any gangster i have ever met, and what did the police department do for his service and hundreds of thousands of dollars in settlements the taxpayers got stuck with?

They promoted him to detective.

I have another friend who is a cop who is even worse than him who made detective and who in no exaggeration is a one man crime spree all on to himself.     


Their attitude towards the public ?   Treat taxpayers and citizens like utter garbage and dirt.   

I know of examples of bad cops too.  Not much worse than a bad government employee with police power.  Try dealing with federal government regulators.  Scary stuff. 

But I also know of many good ones. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 18, 2011, 10:52:44 AM
Then you are the only person so far in this thread.

Pretty much the minority so far.

lol.  Yes, the empirical evidence in this thread, and your 36 years of never hearing of a single instance of a cop helping someone, has this issue all locked up.   :)


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 18, 2011, 10:56:13 AM
Well, we can sit around and hit refresh until someone else comes by to take up your stance on the matter.



Seriously?  lol . . . .

Even if ten people chime in and agree with me, it wouldn't prove squat. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 18, 2011, 10:59:28 AM
It would at least give some credence to what you're saying... So far it's about 20-1 or so I'd say.

No it wouldn't.   ::)  Where is tony when I need him?   :D  Educate this dude on statistics and empirical evidence would ya? 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 18, 2011, 11:49:14 AM
Sheriff’s Dept. defends SWAT shooting silence
Story(152) CommentsSheriff’s Dept. defends SWAT shooting silence
Fernanda Echavarri, Arizona Daily Star Arizona Daily Star | Posted: Wednesday, May 18, 2011 11:45 am | Comments
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2721700/posts

Benjie Sanders/Arizona Daily Star, File

 

This January 2011 file photo shows Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik. The Sheriff's Department said Tuesday it will provide no further information on a fatal May 5, SWAT shooting until the investigation is complete. .
..Related Stories

Related: SWAT officers' 71 gunshots require an explanation.


Tucson attorney Michael Storie, who represents law enforcement officers, has called a news conference at 10 a.m. Thursday to discuss the Pima County Sheriff's Department SWAT shooting.

Storie says in a news release that he represent officers on the PCSD SWAT involved in the fatal May 5, incident.

Storie said he will answer questions on behalf of SWAT officers involved.

The Pima County Sheriff's Department issued a statement today trying to explain its policy regarding the delay in information about the SWAT raid in which a Tucson man was killed.

Here is an unedited copy of today's statement:

Officer Involved Shooting - Update

May 18, 2011

"As a result of the need for information surrounding the shooting of Jose Guerena by members of the Pima Regional SWAT Team, the public has received misinformation and emotionally-charged speculation.

The investigation that lead to the service of the search warrants on May 5 is a complicated one involving multiple people suspected of very serious crimes. Sometimes, law enforcement agencies must choose between the desire of the public to quickly know details, and the very real threat to innocent lives if those details are released prematurely. Sheriff Dupnik has made it a departmental policy to be open and forthcoming with information released to the news media. When the decision is made to withhold information, as it has been in this case, there is a legitimate reason for that decision. The day the search warrant was served, we reported to the media that Mr. Guerena fired at SWAT officers. This is what was understood at that time. After a more detailed investigation, we learned that he pointed his assault rifle at SWAT officers, however, the safety was on and he could not fire. This is a clear example of erroneous information being provided without careful investigation. Rather than risking the release of further information, it is imperative that we complete all aspects of this investigation.

Complicating matters is the fact that multiple agencies were involved in this incident. The criminal investigation must be completed, in addition to the investigation by the County Attorney's office, prior to any administrative review of the actions of the officers involved in the shooting. By mutual agreement, that administrative review will include officials from the Pima County Sheriff's Department, the Marana Police Department, the Oro Valley Police Department and the Sahuarita Police Department. Each of these agencies had officers involved in the shooting as members of the Pima Regional SWAT Team.

Since the Sheriff's Department has had such a long-standing practice of open and timely communication with members of the news media, it is understandable that questions are asked about when more information will become available. However, it is unacceptable and irresponsible to couch those questions with implications of secrecy and a cover-up, not to mention questioning the legality of actions that could not have been taken without the approval of an impartial judge. As a law enforcement professional with decades of experience, Sheriff Dupnik will make the decision to release the information when the investigation is completed, the danger to innocent lives has been mitigated, and all agencies involved have been given the opportunity to review the actions of their personnel."

Deputy Jason S. Ogan

Public Information Officer

Pima County Sheriff's Department

Here is today's news article about the shooting:

Dupnik won't release more info about SWAT shooting of Tucson man

The Pima County Sheriff's Department will release no more information about the circumstances surrounding the killing of Jose Guerena during the serving of a search warrant by the department's SWAT officers May 5 at his home.

Two weeks after the shooting the department has yet to disclose exactly what they were searching for in the Guerena home as well as three other residences in the area that were subjects of a drug investigation. Court documents that show what officers were searching for in the case have been sealed and what was seized as evidence has also been sealed.

Sheriff Clarence Dupnik, through a department spokesman Tuesday morning, declined an interview request.

No one from the department will comment about the case until the investigation is complete, Deputy Jason Ogan said Tuesday. There is no timeframe for when the investigation will be over, he said.

On May 5, five members of the SWAT team fired 71 shots at Guerena while serving a search warrant at the 7100 block of South Redwater Drive. He was shot 60 times.

The 26-year-old former Marine was sleeping at about 9:30 a.m. after working the graveyard shift at Asarco's Mission Mine when his wife woke him saying she heard noises outside and saw a man was at their window. Guerena told his wife to hide in a closet with their 4-year-old son, his wife said. He grabbed an AR-15 rifle and moments later was slumped in the kitchen, mortally wounded from a hail of gunfire.

Guerena did not fire a shot and his gun had the safety on, deputies said, after initially saying he had fired on the SWAT officers


________________________ _______-

Dupnik is the typical powermad freak like Nifong, Spitzer, etc. 

I hope every member of the squat team, Dupnick, and anyone else involved in this hang in the town square.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 21, 2011, 03:24:11 AM
http://abcnews.go.com/US/tucson-swat-team-defends-shooting-iraq-marine-veteran/t/story?id=13640112



Disgusting.   This dupnik asshole needs to be Nifonged


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Deicide on May 21, 2011, 03:38:11 AM
Police strip searched me last year on the NYC subway platform at 4 in the morning.

Fuckers.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 21, 2011, 08:25:49 AM
Police strip searched me last year on the NYC subway platform at 4 in the morning.

Fuckers.

Ne-kid?  Why? 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 21, 2011, 11:33:33 AM
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Old Man Says Cop Beat Him for Trying to Help
Courthouse News ^ | Wednesday, May 18, 2011 | By STEVEN CALLEGAN
Posted on May 21, 2011 3:15:50 PM EDT by Fitzy_888

Fairhope, Ala. (CN) - A police officer beat an elderly man who called 911 to report an accident and stop a drunken driver from leaving the scene of a crime, according to a complaint in Baldwin County Court.

Dorsey Henderson says he investigated an auto accident that happened across the street from his house. After determining that one of the drivers was belligerently intoxicated, he told the man not to leave and called the police.

When Officer Trent Scott arrived on the scene, Henderson tried to tell him what had happened and that he had put the driver under "citizen's arrest" because he was trying to leave. Officer Scott told Henderson there is "no such thing as citizen's arrest in Alabama," adding "get out of the way[,] old man."

While citizen's arrest is a gray area in Alabama, Henderson says he had "only been trying to help."

Nevertheless, Scott put him in an arm bar, tearing the man's rotator cuff, and walked him across the street.

When they were back in Henderson's driveway, Scott "slammed" the elderly man face first into the driveway, breaking his nose and his glasses. Scott "proceeded to beat" Henderson in "the back of the head, neck and arms." Scott did not arrest Henderson or charge him with any crime.

Henderson's wife, Dorris, watched from a wheelchair 18 feet away and called 911, saying that Scott was "beating the hell out of my husband." When the ambulance arrived, Scott sent it away, handcuffed the man and put him in the back of his patrol car.

Scott's superior showed up, released Henderson and called the ambulance back to treat Henderson and bring him to Thomas Hospital.

As of May 16, 2011, Officer Trent Scott was still employed by the Fairhope Police Department.

Henderson and his wife seek damages for constitutional violations. They are represented D. Keith Landers of Daphne, Ala.

TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Government; US: Alabama; Click to Add Topic
KEYWORDS: baldwincounty; dorseyhenderson; moralabsolutes; standingarmy; trentscott; Click to Add Keyword
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Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Deicide on May 21, 2011, 01:57:53 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVAEonEkSyo


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 21, 2011, 02:04:43 PM
Henderson's wife, Dorris, watched from a wheelchair 18 feet away and called 911, saying that Scott was "beating the hell out of my husband." When the ambulance arrived, Scott sent it away, handcuffed the man and put him in the back of his patrol car.



________________________ ____________________-


That pofs cop is still on the payroll soaking up tax dollars.  Imagine being a taxpayer learing thatyou are slaving away at work and some of your tax dollars are going to pay this disgusting thug with a badge?   

And why didnt the EMT call 911 and report this thug with a badge?   

 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 21, 2011, 02:13:44 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVAEonEkSyo

Fellow dago who makes me proud. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 21, 2011, 03:47:41 PM
Guerena family attorney responds to SWAT lawyer (Wants Pima Sheriff Dupnik to release reports)
KGUN9-TV (ABC) ^ | 5/19/2011 | Craig Smith, Layla Tang




TUCSON (KGUN9-TV) - Guerena family attorney Christopher Scileppi said he's working with a dead Marine's honor, and a family's grief.  He wants to see proof to back up attorney Mike Storie's account of the SWAT raid that left Jose Guerena dead.

Storie held a news conference Thursday and released several new details about the May 5 raid at the Guerena house that have been kept private until now.  He detailed why SWAT was serving a search warrant and what they found, and gave a reason for why paramedics waiting at the scene were not allowed inside the house to treat Guerena after he was shot.  Storie told KGUN9 that a SWAT robot was sent into the home to examine the threat level, and by then, it was too late for Guerena.  Scileppi has continued to argue that Guerena thought he was defending his home from an invasion when SWAT broke down his door.

"The SWAT team has lawyered up and all Mr. Storie, their lawyer, did today was attempt to discredit a Marine who served two tours abroad and put out statements unsupported by facts," Scileppi told KGUN9 News.  Now he's calling for Storie and Sheriff Clarence Dupnik to release the reports and documents about the raid.

[Snip]

Scileppi disputed Storie's account that Guerena ducked or fell into a room where SWAT couldn't see him and be sure he was no longer a threat, and that's why they didn't order medical care for him.  Scileppi says blood stains in the house make it look like Guerena went down in the hall where SWAT could see him easily.

 


(Excerpt) Read more at kgun9.com ...

________________________ ________________________ ________



Damn I hate the fucking cops.   Trying to discredit this hero vs. taking responsibility for their murderous bullshit.     


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 21, 2011, 04:02:21 PM
This is why i loathe 99% of police.  At the end of the day - they will cover up and support criminal cops who commit the worst of offenses as opposed to doing what is right.  A decorated vet of two wars lost his life due to this murderour police department, and they are still palying games?  Oh fuck that!  put me on the jury, and I will march every member on that swat team on up to the gallo with their families watching.  Sorry - these pofs taxpayer financed pieces of trash needto suffer severe penalities.         

So in my mind - if there were say 10 members on that raid, and not one speaks out - they are all equally culpable and damnable IMHO considering this family lost a loved one due to their bullshit tactics.  That is at least 99% as they will all hide behind the wall of blue while a family is grieving.   Sorry, I cant support that and only wish each of those cops suffers the same fate in front of their own families.   

I grew up with so many thug cops its not funny.  They dont do dick but harass commuters on their way to work, write up millions of bullshit tickets to oft targets, avoid tough assignments, never get out of the damn car and walk the beat to talk to taxpayers, act rudely to people, lie on the stand routinely, FRAME INNOCENT PEOPLE, complain about pensions, pay, vacations, etc, and otherwise are no different than the worst pofs at the DMV.  Most are on roids, treat the general public like cattle, and are on 24/7 power trips.   BTW - drive by any police station near me, all you see are BMW's, Mercedes, decked out Jeeps, Hummers, etc.  These guys are cashing in on the taxpayer like no tommorow and creating a crime way all on to themselves.     

I know I will piss off many here with saying that, but I have seen this my whole life, cops are far worse than the criminals in 90% of cases. 

I would trust neighborhood patrols over a "professional" police force any day of the week.   i have seen far too much from those I grew up with and still am "friendly" with to come to any other conclusion.         


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 23, 2011, 06:27:41 AM
TSA at the prom now? 


http://www.koat.com/r-video/27979990/detail.html





Title: Re: Police video shows how drug raid turned deadly - Video - Looks like murder to me
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 23, 2011, 09:53:17 AM
Shit is crazy, There's a thread about this topic on the G&O...

They say that this killing is justified...

However, it doesn't look right in my book. They gave the guy no change to surrender.

The time it takes for the guy to surrender is about the time it takes for the same guy to point and shoot a gun....  tough call for the cop...unfortunate for the club wielding guy...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 23, 2011, 09:56:37 AM
Unfortunate for the taxpayer who now has to shell out MILLIONS for these thugs with badges who simply could have waited till the guy went to work to pick him up.   


This is total bs on the sheriffs' department.  I wish I were on the jury - every one of these dirtbag cops would be walked to the gallows at high noon, including Sheiff Dipshit. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 23, 2011, 09:57:01 AM
It would at least give some credence to what you're saying... So far it's about 20-1 or so I'd say.

I know a LOT of good cops..


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 23, 2011, 09:58:00 AM
Unfortunate for the taxpayer who now has to shell out MILLIONS for these thugs with badges who simply could have waited till the guy went to work to pick him up.   


This is total bs on the sheriffs' department.  I wish I were on the jury - every one of these dirtbag cops would be walked to the gallows at high noon, including Sheiff Dipshit. 

I doubt you would qualify for a jury.. no offense


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 23, 2011, 10:01:40 AM
I know a LOT of good cops..

I don't.   I know steroid addicted thugs raping the taxpayer blind all while they are driving bmw's, mercedes, etc, trating the public like crap, beating innocent people, focsed only on their vacations and pensions, etc.   

I know tons of cops.  Probably 40% or better of the people I grew up with became cops or firemen.   The fire people are way better IMHO.   The cops I know are are nothing but a taxpayer financed street gang and crime wave.   

   

 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 23, 2011, 10:20:06 AM
This.

Fire people actually HELP... show up to do good. Cops are the foot soldiers of the criminal justice enterprise system... Making money on the hard work of decent people.

Not many firemen show up to a bank robbery, aggravated assault in progress, Domestic violence, rape, shooting, bar riot etc etc. Love the firemen, I do, but there are a couple of guys on this thread who are unrealistic with their hatred of cops... sad..really is.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 23, 2011, 10:24:53 AM
Not many firemen show up to a bank robbery, aggravated assault in progress, Domestic violence, rape, shooting, bar riot etc etc. Love the firemen, I do, but there are a couple of guys on this thread who are unrealistic with their hatred of cops... sad..really is.

Agree.  Some of the cop hatred is irrational.  And some of these folks would be the first ones calling 911 if they need help. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 23, 2011, 10:28:37 AM
Not really - cops don't do dick in 99% of cases but write up a report after the real crap went down.  

Actually if you look at job hazard stats -  there are many more professions far more dangerous than police work.      Many cops like to tell themseves they have the hardest job in the world and the most dangerous, etc, which is pure bullshit and nit supported by th facts.   

Where I live - they now have these trucks that we call "end of the world" trucks to where its decked out with everything from soup to nuts, yet they never do a damn thing but sit at Dunkin donust on Central Ave., in Yonkers, NY.   

Foot patrol?  ha ha ha ha! ! ! !    most of these assholes are too busy giving tickets for drivers without seatbelts or cwell phones while they theselves sit all day on their own cell phones, bucking red lights and stop stop signs, doing nohing, etc.   

 



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 23, 2011, 10:39:35 AM
Not really - cops don't do dick in 99% of cases but write up a report after the real crap went down.  

Actually if you look at job hazard stats -  there are many more professions far more dangerous than police work.      Many cops like to tell themseves they have the hardest job in the world and the most dangerous, etc, which is pure bullshit and nit supported by th facts.   

Where I live - they now have these trucks that we call "end of the world" trucks to where its decked out with everything from soup to nuts, yet they never do a damn thing but sit at Dunkin donust on Central Ave., in Yonkers, NY.   

Foot patrol?  ha ha ha ha! ! ! !    most of these assholes are too busy giving tickets for drivers without seatbelts or cwell phones while they theselves sit all day on their own cell phones, bucking red lights and stop stop signs, doing nohing, etc.   

 



It is absolutely a dangerous job.  I wouldn't want to carry a gun and walk some of the streets in high crime neighborhoods.  They deserve a medal just for signing up for the job. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 23, 2011, 10:48:03 AM
Many more jobs are statistcally far more dangerous.     


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 23, 2011, 10:54:21 AM
Many more jobs are statistcally far more dangerous.     

Even if that's true, it doesn't make being a cop any less dangerous.  Would you feel safe being a patrol officer in a high crime neighborhood?  I know I wouldn't. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on May 23, 2011, 10:55:35 AM
Ever hear of a deterrent?  The idea that a cop is around deters people from doing stupid shit.  The reason I haven't killed someone driving 155 mph on a regular basis has more than a little to do with cops.  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 23, 2011, 10:58:02 AM
Ever hear of a deterrent?  The idea that a cop is around deters people from doing stupid shit.  The reason I haven't killed someone driving 155 mph on a regular basis has more than a little to do with cops.  

Maybe it has something to do with no wanting to kill yourself or be sued into bankruptcy?   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on May 23, 2011, 11:00:31 AM
Maybe it has something to do with no wanting to kill yourself or be sued into bankruptcy?   

also deterrents.  but I know what I'm thinking when I'm driving and being sued isn't ever it.  Getting thrown in jail for driving like a maniac always is.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 23, 2011, 11:55:20 AM
Most cops don't show up at any of those things in progress... They show up after the crime has been committed.

Cops report on crime... they do not stop it.

Ridiculous statement. We make arrests for things like that on a regular basis. Granted a lot of the time we get there after the fact, collect evidence, write the reports, it goes to detective cops who work the case, get the warrants, then the street cops or specialized units make the arrests..

But we arrest for those things on a regular basis. I think you're hatred has warped your view of what cops really do. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 24, 2011, 05:20:45 AM
Not really... I know a lot of cops... Was even going to be one at one time... Changed my mind when I saw how you don't really do anything.

You never saw me not really doing anything. Don't know what town you are measuring by.. Probably worked out for both of us... you not being a cop..


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 24, 2011, 10:38:46 AM
You never saw me not really doing anything. Don't know what town you are measuring by.. Probably worked out for both of us... you not being a cop..

lol.  Tell me about it. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Option D on May 24, 2011, 10:41:37 AM
lmao


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Option D on May 24, 2011, 10:43:33 AM
seriously good thread.. Dont really hear this a lot coming from a white dude..


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 24, 2011, 10:44:54 AM
lmao

ha ha ha ha! ! ! !



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Option D on May 24, 2011, 10:45:57 AM
cops shot my roomates dog (he is white) back when he was living in carona. He was letting off fireworks.. people confused them for guns (he didnt own any) police busted in his house. his dog barked.. they shot him with a pump action.. then tore up the house.. and found fireworks


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 24, 2011, 10:50:18 AM
There may be a few good cops, and I know they convince themselves of this, but what they don't get is that its the entire police structure that is the problem! 

They act like zoo keepers more than anythig else and then wonder why the public barks at them.  sorry - these cops, ALL OF THEM!  are paid by the taxpayer and should treat those who pay their salaries, pensions, health care, etc, as a paying customer and and show a littl damn respect.   

And this whole nonsense of "officer safety" trumping everything else is also getting way out of control too.  I know it sounds harsh, but sorry, peoples' rights under the US const. come first.   If a cop or other govt worker is notprepared to accept those risks, dont take the job.         


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Option D on May 24, 2011, 10:55:50 AM
There may be a few good cops, and I know they convince themselves of this, but what they don't get is that its the entire police structure that is the problem! 

They act like zoo keepers more than anythig else and then wonder why the public barks at them.  sorry - these cops, ALL OF THEM!  are paid by the taxpayer and should treat those who pay their salaries, pensions, health care, etc, as a paying customer and and show a littl damn respect.   

And this whole nonsense of "officer safety" trumping everything else is also getting way out of control too.  I know it sounds harsh, but sorry, peoples' rights under the US const. come first.   If a cop or other govt worker is notprepared to accept those risks, dont take the job.         
if you feel like this.. dont come to LA  and dont go to the south bay and mess with the lennox sheriffs dept.. they will let your ass know where you stand..


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 24, 2011, 10:59:50 AM
if you feel like this.. dont come to LA  and dont go to the south bay and mess with the lennox sheriffs dept.. they will let your ass know where you stand..

I grew up with and am friendly with tons of cops in yonkers/bronx NY.    i know first hand how they treat the public.   I actually know this guy.   Thinks he did nothing wrong at all and attacks everyoneon his facebook and youtube who question him.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZqYrn4tBtA


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Option D on May 24, 2011, 11:04:18 AM
Cops like this are everywhere... Of course the only 2 people who think cops are good in this thread are a old white mega Christian and a cop.

Big shock they are giving each other reach arounds about how great cops are.


Ok.. i have mixed feelings. Which i think is normal. There are cops that work in high crime areas like south central (where im from) and about half of them are really fucked up and make generalizations about the community. Which we all do.. but for a cop to do it is irresponsible.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 24, 2011, 11:04:40 AM
lmao

Hahahaha!   ;D


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 24, 2011, 11:14:23 AM
This guy didnt have a dog license. 

Again - each of these cops is costing the taxpayer 125k and up a year in salary alone and will retire with crazy pensions at 45 years old.

Sorry - my sympathies are with the average homeowner payng 10k a year plus in property taxes alone in Yonkers, not the cop. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xM4lVoq4Io 



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 24, 2011, 12:33:46 PM
USDA fines Missouri family $90k for selling a few rabbits without a license
Daily Caller ^ | 5/24/11





It started out as a hobby, a way for the Dollarhite family in Nixa, Mo., to teach a teenage son responsibility. Like a lemonade stand.

But now, selling a few hundred rabbits over two years has provoked the heavy hand of the federal government to the tune of a $90,643 fine. The fine was levied more than a year after authorities contacted family members, prompting them to immediately halt their part-time business and liquidate their equipment.

The Dollarhite’s story, originally picked up by conservative blogger Bob McCarty, has turned into a call to arms for critics of the government’s reach and now has both Democratic and Republican lawmakers vowing to intervene.

John and Judy Dollarhite began selling rabbit meat by the pound in 2006, and as pets to neighbors and friends in 2008.

Raised on the three-acre lot on which their home sits, the rabbits were heralded by local experts for their quality and kept in pristine condition.

When a local pet store asked them to supply their pet rabbits, the Dollarhites had no idea they would be running afoul of an obscure federal regulation that prohibits selling more than $500 worth of rabbits to a pet store without a license from the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA). Under the law, pet stores are exempt from regulation.

But by selling to pet stores for resale, the humble Dollarhites became “wholesale breeders of pet animals,” said Dave Sacks, a spokesman for USDA who defended the fine, even while admitting it “looks curious” to the average person.

That’s especially so since the Dollarhites face no accusation they mistreated any animals. Instead, they committed what’s called in regulatory parlance a “paperwork violation” under the Animal Welfare Act, a 1966 law intended to prevent the abuse of animals.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 24, 2011, 01:09:51 PM
This guy didnt have a dog license. 

Again - each of these cops is costing the taxpayer 125k and up a year in salary alone and will retire with crazy pensions at 45 years old.

Sorry - my sympathies are with the average homeowner payng 10k a year plus in property taxes alone in Yonkers, not the cop. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xM4lVoq4Io 



Sorry I missed the part where they brutalized the guy.... is it in another film?

And if you have never arrested someone surrounded by a crowd, you probably wouldn't understand why there were several cops on scene.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 24, 2011, 02:19:15 PM
Ok here is what I am talking about -

My car got broken into an hour ago and they cleaned it out.   Right in broad daylight.  Probably took about 600 worth of stuff. 

I called insurance and have window coverage and needed to make police report to file the claim.  Cops come by and say to me "Bro - you know where you are right?  This is the Box, this is how it is."

Now, I know my hood is not great at all and car thefts are huge near me.   But the cops dont do dick around here, no foot patrols, no thing at all. 

Sit in the damn car and dont do a damn thing while cimes get committed in broad daylight, then write a report afterwards ad tell me that I shoudaccept the thugs committing crimes because that is how it is.   

       


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: garebear on May 24, 2011, 03:16:22 PM
I grew up with and am friendly with tons of cops in yonkers/bronx NY.    i know first hand how they treat the public.   I actually know this guy.   Thinks he did nothing wrong at all and attacks everyoneon his facebook and youtube who question him.  

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZqYrn4tBtA
Unacceptable. Plain and simple.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 25, 2011, 10:23:47 AM
Seventy-One Shots: The Death of Jose Guereña
Pajamas Media ^ | May 25, 2011 | Bob Owens




Jose Guereña survived two tours in Iraq, but he couldn't survive his own government.

Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik infamously railed in January of this year that Arizona is a “Mecca for prejudice and bigotry.”

One must wonder if the “prejudice and bigotry” he considers endemic to Arizona is to blame for the death of U.S. Marine veteran Jose Guereña, killed when Dupnik’s deputies gunned him down in his home. They fired 71 shots. They hit him 60 times. And then, as if this wasn’t enough, Dupnik’s deputies blocked paramedics for an hour and 14 minutes from approaching the scene, denying Guereña treatment until he was assuredly dead.

Dupnik’s SWAT team initially claimed that Guereña fired at them while they were serving a warrant — as he slept. They claimed that his bullets hit the bulletproof shield that the entry team hid behind, and that the barrage of bullets they fired back was in self-defense.

Only, Guereña never fired his weapon. Awoken by his wife with screams that men with guns were invading his home and threatening his family, Jose Guereña armed himself with a AR-15 rifle and crouched in the hallway. The SWAT team unloaded upon Guereña on sight. He apparently recognized the home invaders as police. He took 60 rounds, but never — as the Pima County Sheriff’s Department was forced to admit — took off his weapon’s safety as he was being killed.

Prejudice and bigotry?

It was, you’ll recall, a claim Dupnik made in the wake of Jared Loughner’s bloodly rampage at a “Congress in your Corner” event at a Safeway supermarket in Tucson, where six were killed and 14 others were injured — including, gravely, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords. Dupnik was attempting to blame the conservative Tea Party movement for the shooting when he made the comment. And even after it was revealed that Loughner’s few known political views had been described as “quite liberal,” and were in fact muddled at best, he refused to retract his slur.

So when Dupnik’s teams attempted a complicated four-house raid of minority families looking for drugs, perhaps bigotry and prejudice really was in play.

Perhaps Dupnik’s officers assumed every Hispanic accused of being a drug dealer really was one, and perhaps they assumed that the tenant of a home protecting his loved ones must be a bloodthirsty cartel member waiting in ambush. Is that why they gunned down a tired, hard-working father sleeping off a night shift at the local copper mine? A Marine veteran of Iraq that had the discipline not to fire — a discipline that a trigger-happy SWAT team which has now killed three men in less than a year cannot itself exercise?

Not only has the Pima Sheriff’s Department tried to justify firing 71 shots at one man in a small hallway, hitting him (thankfully, just him) 60 times in a home where his wife and child were present. They’ve attempted to justify their refusal to let a team of paramedics treat Guereña, who was still miraculously alive after being sprayed mercilessly with bullets. It takes a competent SWAT team just a handful of minutes to “clear” a residential home during a raid. Dupnik’s SWAT team refused to declare the scene “clear” for an agonizing one hour and 14 minutes, and not until Jose Guereña had already died.

A cynic might be tempted to suggest Dupnik’s SWAT team was waiting for the only witness to their assault to die. Considering how the Sheriff’s Department has acted since they stormed the home, a rational person might be tempted to agree.

Not content to blame the victim for his own death, they attempted to insinuate he was a drug dealer, even though they were forced to admit under direct questioning that no drugs were found in his home, and that a clumsy cop falling down may have triggered the bloodbath.


Vanessa Guereña claims that neither she nor her husband heard the officers announce themselves as police. As anyone who has ever seen an episode of any popular police reality show knows, no entry team waits 15 seconds after announcing themselves to batter down a door and rush the inhabitants — as Pima County Lt. Michael O’Connor claims his SWAT team did. Identical scenes of immediate entry upon announcement (or after breaching), without giving those inside a chance to react, is a standard tactic captured again and again.

Why Lt. Michael O’Connor decided to tell a mistruth about a well-known, heavily documented, and highly standardized technique isn’t immediately clear. Perhaps it is because of the inevitable wrongful death lawsuit to be filed against the Pima County Sheriff’s Department on behalf of Vanessa Guereña and her two children. Or perhaps it is because of the possible DOJ civil rights investigation. Perhaps Dupnik’s employees simply are unable to act any more professionally after a raid than they do during one.

No-knock warrants are typically used to surprise the target of raids and keep them from disposing of evidence, with possible violence from the offender cited as justification for the military-style use of heavy armor and machine guns.

Jose Guereña’s death was entirely preventable. Over-armed, over-amped law enforcement is causing far more harm to the public than other tactics and techniques possibly could.

The over-militarization of law enforcement agencies and over-use of SWAT teams is an idea that needs to be revisited in a sane society. Too many good people have been traumatized, and too many killed, under the flimsiest of circumstances.


After surviving two tours of duty in Iraq, only to lose his life in an encounter with Clarence Dupnik’s keystone cops, Jose Guereña was buried with full military honors.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 25, 2011, 10:42:54 AM
DOJ letter:'TSA would likely be required to cancel any flight'(FEDs threaten air blockade of Texas)
The Lone Star Report ^ | 5/24/2011 | Andy Hogue





The U.S. Department of Justice sent a letter to House and Texas Senate leaders Tuesday -- reportedly in person -- threatening a shut-down of airports if HB 1937 is passed.

The letter claims Rep. David Simpson's (R-Longview) anti-TSA-groping bill is against federal law and the Supremacy Clause of the U.S. Constitution. We include the text of the DOJ's letter, as well as a portion of Simpson's reply, below.


(Excerpt) Read more at lonestarreport.org ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: 225for70 on May 25, 2011, 01:39:31 PM
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/05/25/congressman_on_recent_flight_tsa_patted_down_child_little_old_lady_ignored_man_in_arab_garb.html

The Hill reports: "I walked through … right behind me there was a grandmother — little old lady, and she was was patted down," Rep. Paul Broun (R-Georgia) said on C-SPAN's "Washington Journal."

"Right behind her was a little kid who was patted down. And then right behind him was a guy in Arabian dress who just walked right through. Why are we patting down grandma and kids?"

Go to the website there is a video.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 25, 2011, 01:49:33 PM
Seventy-One Shots: The Death of Jose Guereña
Pajamas Media ^ | May 25, 2011 | Bob Owens




Jose Guereña survived two tours in Iraq, but he couldn't survive his own government.

Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik infamously railed in January of this year that Arizona is a “Mecca for prejudice and bigotry.”

One must wonder if the “prejudice and bigotry” he considers endemic to Arizona is to blame for the death of U.S. Marine veteran Jose Guereña, killed when Dupnik’s deputies gunned him down in his home. They fired 71 shots. They hit him 60 times. And then, as if this wasn’t enough, Dupnik’s deputies blocked paramedics for an hour and 14 minutes from approaching the scene, denying Guereña treatment until he was assuredly dead.

Dupnik’s SWAT team initially claimed that Guereña fired at them while they were serving a warrant — as he slept. They claimed that his bullets hit the bulletproof shield that the entry team hid behind, and that the barrage of bullets they fired back was in self-defense.

Only, Guereña never fired his weapon. Awoken by his wife with screams that men with guns were invading his home and threatening his family, Jose Guereña armed himself with a AR-15 rifle and crouched in the hallway. The SWAT team unloaded upon Guereña on sight. He apparently recognized the home invaders as police. He took 60 rounds, but never — as the Pima County Sheriff’s Department was forced to admit — took off his weapon’s safety as he was being killed.

Prejudice and bigotry?

It was, you’ll recall, a claim Dupnik made in the wake of Jared Loughner’s bloodly rampage at a “Congress in your Corner” event at a Safeway supermarket in Tucson, where six were killed and 14 others were injured — including, gravely, Rep. Gabrielle Giffords. Dupnik was attempting to blame the conservative Tea Party movement for the shooting when he made the comment. And even after it was revealed that Loughner’s few known political views had been described as “quite liberal,” and were in fact muddled at best, he refused to retract his slur.

So when Dupnik’s teams attempted a complicated four-house raid of minority families looking for drugs, perhaps bigotry and prejudice really was in play.

Perhaps Dupnik’s officers assumed every Hispanic accused of being a drug dealer really was one, and perhaps they assumed that the tenant of a home protecting his loved ones must be a bloodthirsty cartel member waiting in ambush. Is that why they gunned down a tired, hard-working father sleeping off a night shift at the local copper mine? A Marine veteran of Iraq that had the discipline not to fire — a discipline that a trigger-happy SWAT team which has now killed three men in less than a year cannot itself exercise?

Not only has the Pima Sheriff’s Department tried to justify firing 71 shots at one man in a small hallway, hitting him (thankfully, just him) 60 times in a home where his wife and child were present. They’ve attempted to justify their refusal to let a team of paramedics treat Guereña, who was still miraculously alive after being sprayed mercilessly with bullets. It takes a competent SWAT team just a handful of minutes to “clear” a residential home during a raid. Dupnik’s SWAT team refused to declare the scene “clear” for an agonizing one hour and 14 minutes, and not until Jose Guereña had already died.

A cynic might be tempted to suggest Dupnik’s SWAT team was waiting for the only witness to their assault to die. Considering how the Sheriff’s Department has acted since they stormed the home, a rational person might be tempted to agree.

Not content to blame the victim for his own death, they attempted to insinuate he was a drug dealer, even though they were forced to admit under direct questioning that no drugs were found in his home, and that a clumsy cop falling down may have triggered the bloodbath.


Vanessa Guereña claims that neither she nor her husband heard the officers announce themselves as police. As anyone who has ever seen an episode of any popular police reality show knows, no entry team waits 15 seconds after announcing themselves to batter down a door and rush the inhabitants — as Pima County Lt. Michael O’Connor claims his SWAT team did. Identical scenes of immediate entry upon announcement (or after breaching), without giving those inside a chance to react, is a standard tactic captured again and again.

Why Lt. Michael O’Connor decided to tell a mistruth about a well-known, heavily documented, and highly standardized technique isn’t immediately clear. Perhaps it is because of the inevitable wrongful death lawsuit to be filed against the Pima County Sheriff’s Department on behalf of Vanessa Guereña and her two children. Or perhaps it is because of the possible DOJ civil rights investigation. Perhaps Dupnik’s employees simply are unable to act any more professionally after a raid than they do during one.

No-knock warrants are typically used to surprise the target of raids and keep them from disposing of evidence, with possible violence from the offender cited as justification for the military-style use of heavy armor and machine guns.

Jose Guereña’s death was entirely preventable. Over-armed, over-amped law enforcement is causing far more harm to the public than other tactics and techniques possibly could.

The over-militarization of law enforcement agencies and over-use of SWAT teams is an idea that needs to be revisited in a sane society. Too many good people have been traumatized, and too many killed, under the flimsiest of circumstances.


After surviving two tours of duty in Iraq, only to lose his life in an encounter with Clarence Dupnik’s keystone cops, Jose Guereña was buried with full military honors.


60 out of 71 is impressive!

How slanted and prejudiced the author was who wrote the article..obvious


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 25, 2011, 01:51:20 PM
Have you paid attention to this story? 


 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 25, 2011, 01:53:42 PM
Ok here is what I am talking about -

My car got broken into an hour ago and they cleaned it out.   Right in broad daylight.  Probably took about 600 worth of stuff. 

I called insurance and have window coverage and needed to make police report to file the claim.  Cops come by and say to me "Bro - you know where you are right?  This is the Box, this is how it is."

Now, I know my hood is not great at all and car thefts are huge near me.   But the cops dont do dick around here, no foot patrols, no thing at all. 

Sit in the damn car and dont do a damn thing while cimes get committed in broad daylight, then write a report afterwards ad tell me that I shoudaccept the thugs committing crimes because that is how it is.   

       

Out of 10 burglary of  vehicles that occurred in Region 2 yesterday, all 10 had either purses, briefcases, shopping bags, GPS devices etc in plain view.

It is frustrating for cops when citizens won't even take the time to remove their expensive items from plain view, then whine that their car got broken into.

We set up traps, we catch the bad guys, judges give them a slap on the wrist because it's a property crime, and we start the process over again. If only the citizens would give us a little help and not leave $600 worth of stuff protected only by glass.    


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 25, 2011, 01:55:57 PM
It was in the trunk.  They busted the side window and opened the trunk.   Oh, they took a gym bag with dirty clothes, a water bottle  and Axe deoderant in it too.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 25, 2011, 02:14:36 PM
It was in the trunk.  They busted the side window and opened the trunk.   Oh, they took a gym bag with dirty clothes, a water bottle  and Axe deoderant in it too.   

those bastards stole your axe deodorant??


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 25, 2011, 02:20:52 PM
those bastards stole your axe deodorant??

Yes, and my freaking swimming stuff.  I can imagine some ghetto thug animal trying to hawk my speedo goggles and fins to some doper on the street.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 25, 2011, 07:43:21 PM
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The Police State Is Personal
The Ludwig Von MIses Insitiute ^ | May 25, 2011 | Wendy McElroy
Posted on May 25, 2011 10:43:26 PM EDT by danielmryan

Does America now qualify as a police state? And, if so, where do you — or will you — personally draw a hard line and say, "No! That is a law or a police order I refuse to obey"?

As an anarchist, I view all states as police states, because every law is ultimately backed by police force against the body or property of a scofflaw, however peaceful he may be. I see only a difference of degree, not of kind. But even small differences in the degree of repression can be matters of life or death, and so they should not be trivialized.

A police state is more commonly described as a totalitarian government that exerts extreme social, political, and economic control. It maintains this control by a pervasive surveillance of its own citizenry, by draconian law enforcement, and by granting or withholding "privileges" such the ability to travel. Typically, there is a special police force, such as a Stasi, that operates with no transparency and few restraints. Unlike traditional policemen, who respond to crime, the purpose of such state police is to monitor and control society.

Let me restate my opening question: does America now embody this common description of a police state?

Clearly it does. The American government exerts extreme control over society, down to dictating which foods you may eat. Its economic control borders on the absolute. It politicizes and presides over even the traditional bastion of privacy — the family. Camera and other surveillance of daily life has soared, with the Supreme Court recently expanding the "right" of police to perform warrantless searches. Enforcement is so draconian that the United States has more prisoners per capita than any other nation; and over the last few years, the police have been self-consciously militarizing their procedures and attitudes. Travel, formerly a right, is now a privilege granted by government agents at their whim. Several huge and tyrannical law-enforcement agencies monitor peaceful behavior rather than respond to crime. These agencies operate largely outside the restrictions of the Constitution; for example, the TSA conducts arbitrary searches in violation of Fourth Amendment guarantees.

The Internet would run out of electrons before I could complete a list of the specifics that constitute an emerging Police America. The extent to which you are personally oppressed by the state, however, can be estimated by answering several more abstract questions:

How many peaceful activities would make you a criminal if you chose to do them?

How much of your life is spent working to pay taxes and other government fees?

How freely can you relocate your assets and person outside state jurisdiction?

How freely can you use your assets and person within state jurisdiction?

Few people aside from the state apparatchiks can answer in a way that makes them feel anything but economically enslaved and physically trapped.

No one should have to chose between family and the state, nor their wealth and the law. When confronted by such choices, there is no easy or correct answer. An increasing number of Americans are becoming expatriates for their own safety and that of their families. But the great majority of people are rooted in place by extended family, friends, work, inertia, emotional attachments, or other compelling reasons.

Those who recognize the emergence of Police America and yet feel a need to stay should ask themselves a question: where is the limit at which you withdraw your cooperation and say "no!" to a state law or a state agent's order? Would you inform on a neighbor, as the authorities already urge you to do? Would you assist a friend or family member even if it made you criminally an accessory; if so, whom? Would you steal from or harm an innocent person on command? If ordered, would you assist a police officer to do so, or would you interfere and, so, become vulnerable to a charge of "obstructing justice"?

There are several reasons for asking yourself such questions now. They include:

The consequences of your act may depend not merely on where you draw a line but also on how you do so. Planning can help you draw your line in a prudent way.

You may be reluctant to draw the lines you wish because you fear endangering your loved ones, your wealth, or something else valuable to you. If possible, secure these in advance. Prepare.

If you don't know where the lines are, then you are far more likely to act against your own principles or interests when suddenly confronted by a distressing, demanding situation like an officer barking commands.

Knowing where your limits are makes it more possible to avoid situations that trigger them.

Harry Browne advised people to pay a price as soon as possible because it costs less overall; this applies to psychological prices as well as to financial ones. It will never be easier for you to consider this question than right now, in privacy and comfort.

There are no correct answers. The purpose of the exercise is merely to become more aware of how you, personally, could live under a police state while retaining your safety and your self-respect.

The author of several books, Wendy McElroy maintains two active websites: wendymcelroy.com and ifeminists.com. Send her mail.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 25, 2011, 07:45:14 PM
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Big Brother Is Watching You
Reason Magazine ^ | 05/25/2011 | A. Barton Hinkle
Posted on May 25, 2011 11:43:55 PM EDT by The Magical Mischief Tour

In 1991, George Holliday filmed the LAPD’s arrest and beating of Rodney King. The videotape provoked national controversy. If a similar incident happened today, it might provoke something else: the arrest of George Holliday.

Cell phones and cameras with video-recording capability have become ubiquitous. This has led to an increase in the filming of police officers, which has led to a backlash: Cops have begun arresting those who film them, on charges such as interfering with an investigation—even when the filmer is not interfering and the officer is not investigating.

In one now-famous example, motorcyclist Anthony Graber’s helmet cam was rolling when Graber was pulled over last March by a Maryland State Trooper. The Trooper came out of an unmarked car in plain clothes, yelling, with his gun drawn. Graber didn’t like that—and posted the video on YouTube. In short order he was arrested and charged with felony wiretapping. A judge eventually threw the charges out—six months later.

Such incidents have led to a national conversation about the propriety of videotaping cops, even as dashboard cameras have become standard in squad cars. There seems to be some tension in the assumption that, as Graber’s lawyer put it, "the officer has a privacy expectation, but the motorist doesn’t."

That asymmetry has been underscored by recent rulings over global positioning systems. Last year the Virginia Court of Appeals said Fairfax County police did not violate a suspect’s right to privacy when, without a warrant, they surreptitiously put a GPS device on his vehicle to track his movements. Individuals have no expectation of privacy on the public streets, the court ruled—a position also taken by the Ninth Circuit in California.

Yet this past January, Kathy Byron, a member of Virginia’s House of Delegates, introduced legislation that would have forbidden the use of GPS tracking devices for the purpose of following political candidates. People running for public office "are still entitled to some privacy," she argued.

If ordinary citizens have little claim to privacy in public places, then what about their electronic devices? U.S. border-patrol agents often search the phones and computers of American citizens who cross the border—routinely "accessing email accounts, examining photographs and looking through personal calendars," according to The Constitution Project, a watchdog group. "In some cases, electronic devices were confiscated for as long as a year." And in Michigan, the State Police have high-tech forensic devices enabling them to download information from the cell phones of stopped motorists—something they have been doing without a warrant.

In New York, a cell phone alert system will send text messages with a unique ring tone in the event of a terrorist attack or other emergency. By next year the system will go nationwide, and all new cell phones will be required to contain the special chip needed to relay the messages. Orwell comparisons are overdone, but it is hard not to think of 1984: "The voice from the telescreen paused. A trumpet call, clear and beautiful, floated into the stagnant air. The voice continued raspingly: ‘Attention! Your attention, please! A newsflash has this moment arrived from the Malabar front. Our forces in South India have won a glorious victory. . . .’ "

Soon Americans might have no right to expect privacy even in the privacy of their own homes. Earlier this month the U.S. Supreme Court ruled 8-1 that police officers may force their way into your domicile without your consent, without a warrant, and without what are usually referred to as "exigent circumstances"—e.g., someone inside the home yelling for help. The case, Kentucky v. King, concerned an incident in which police officers chasing a drug suspect ran into an apartment building, smelled marijuana, heard noises they thought might indicate someone was destroying evidence—and broke down the wrong door. This, said the Supremes, was perfectly fine.

Dissenting Justice Ruth Bader Ginsberg asked an apposite question: "How ‘secure’ do our homes remain if police, armed with no warrant, can pound on doors at will and, on hearing sounds indicative of things moving, forcibly enter and search for evidence of unlawful activity?"

The Indiana Supreme Court recently issued two rulings of a similar nature. The first said police officers serving a warrant can enter a home without knocking if officers decide they need to. The second said residents have no right to prevent the unlawful entry of police officers into their homes.

Before long the police might not even need to enter your home to search it. Last year Forbes reported that a company called American Science & Engineering racked up $224 million in sales of ZBVs. Those are Z Backscatter Vans, equipped with x-ray machines that can see through walls and clothing. The magazine says the vans have become "powerful tools for security, law enforcement and border control."

Let’s be clear about one thing: Asymmetry is not the same as injustice. The police can pull you over for speeding, but not vice versa—and that is as it should be. The whole idea of having police departments is to allow only certain authorized individuals -- the ones with badges—to raid homes, arrest suspects, and so on. And many of the developments noted above will help law enforcement catch bad guys, which is a good thing.

But it is not the only thing. It is not even the primary thing. Catching bad guys is an ancillary goal for government, whose first duty is to protect the rights of law-abiding citizens. It’s hard for government to do that while simultaneously chipping away at them.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: _bruce_ on May 26, 2011, 02:39:06 AM
It's similiar here in Austria.
If there's a fine e.g. parking ticket, driving too fast, license for your car expired, etc. the police is fast and furious.
If for example a citizen needs help then the tides turn...
...for example a friend of mine and some buddies of his were attacked by a dog from a shitty owner... they called police for help...

...answer: "Stop screaming and fuck off."
A patrolling police car didn't stop when taunted and asked for help.
After 30 minutes and numerous calls from many people in the same street police arrived...

a whole swat team(15+) for a single idiot with his dog.

This has been going on for a long time and the only difference is now it's becoming obvious... cameras everywhere, silent public unrest.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Deicide on May 26, 2011, 03:01:06 AM
It's similiar here in Austria.
If there's a fine e.g. parking ticket, driving too fast, license for your car expired, etc. the police is fast and furious.
If for example a citizen needs help then the tides turn...
...for example a friend of mine and some buddies of his were attacked by a dog from a shitty owner... they called police for help...

...answer: "Stop screaming and fuck off."
A patrolling police car didn't stop when taunted and asked for help.
After 30 minutes and numerous calls from many people in the same street police arrived...

a whole swat team(15+) for a single idiot with his dog.

This has been going on for a long time and the only difference is now it's becoming obvious... cameras everywhere, silent public unrest.


Ja? im Ernst?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: _bruce_ on May 26, 2011, 03:15:05 AM
Ja? im Ernst?

Ja.
Ich kann mich auch erinnern, dass seit Ewigkeiten die cobbs, besonders in kleinen Städten den Bürgern gerne am Arsch gehn.
Wenn du draussen sitzt - immer langsam vorbei fahren und herschaun - das mehrere male -> "Wer, warum, wieso?"
Oft ist es auch so dass, wenn du am abend wo "herumlungerst" ohne laut oder so zu sein, du aufgefordert wirst dich zu verziehen... is seit gut 20 Jahren so.
In einer Anstalt in Wien, wo du einen Bachelor absolvieren kannst, es so ist, dass wenn du am Gang mit anderen stehst und plauderst, das ganze aufgelöst wird da eine Möglichkeit des versammelten Protests besteht.



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 26, 2011, 01:32:27 PM
New LAPD Patrol Car To Sport Infrared Night Vision, License Plate Scanner
May 26, 2011 1:03 PM




The Los Angeles Police Department is expected to debut the Chevrolet Caprice Police Patrol Vehicle (PPV) in mid-2011. (credit: Translogic/AOL)

LOS ANGELES (CBS) — If you thought the patrol car in the 1987 action movie “Robocop” was high-tech, wait until you see what L.A.’s finest will be soon be driving.

AOL’s Translogic caught a sneak peek of the new squad car of choice for the Los Angeles Police Department: the Chevrolet Caprice Police Patrol Vehicle (PPV).

Billed as the “sum total of all the law enforcement community has learned about patrol cars to date”, the PPV boasts a 6.0L V-8 engine with 355 horsepower, 18-inch steel wheels, and a host of gadgets that puts any Hollywood squad car to shame.

The Caprice, which replaces the long-used Ford Crown Victoria, is equipped with an infrared night vision camera, automated license plate scanner, and a touch-screen center console that replaces the older computers traditionally used by officers.

In addition to horsepower and firepower, the cruiser is also outfitted with the latest in information technology, with ethernet, Wi-Fi and an experimental wireless-mesh network in the trunk.

Even the bad guys can ride in comfort: cut-outs in the back seat are custom-made to accommodate any handcuffed suspect.

At a taxpayer cost of $20,000, LAPD officials say vehicle wrapping was used on the all-black sedans instead of the traditional paint to minimize repair expenses and protect resale value.

Drivers can expect to see the new 2012 Chevrolet Caprice PPV cruising city streets as early as mid-2011.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: _bruce_ on May 26, 2011, 01:55:47 PM
New LAPD Patrol Car To Sport Infrared Night Vision, License Plate Scanner
May 26, 2011 1:03 PM




The Los Angeles Police Department is expected to debut the Chevrolet Caprice Police Patrol Vehicle (PPV) in mid-2011. (credit: Translogic/AOL)

LOS ANGELES (CBS) — If you thought the patrol car in the 1987 action movie “Robocop” was high-tech, wait until you see what L.A.’s finest will be soon be driving.

AOL’s Translogic caught a sneak peek of the new squad car of choice for the Los Angeles Police Department: the Chevrolet Caprice Police Patrol Vehicle (PPV).

Billed as the “sum total of all the law enforcement community has learned about patrol cars to date”, the PPV boasts a 6.0L V-8 engine with 355 horsepower, 18-inch steel wheels, and a host of gadgets that puts any Hollywood squad car to shame.

The Caprice, which replaces the long-used Ford Crown Victoria, is equipped with an infrared night vision camera, automated license plate scanner, and a touch-screen center console that replaces the older computers traditionally used by officers.

In addition to horsepower and firepower, the cruiser is also outfitted with the latest in information technology, with ethernet, Wi-Fi and an experimental wireless-mesh network in the trunk.

Even the bad guys can ride in comfort: cut-outs in the back seat are custom-made to accommodate any handcuffed suspect.

At a taxpayer cost of $20,000, LAPD officials say vehicle wrapping was used on the all-black sedans instead of the traditional paint to minimize repair expenses and protect resale value.

Drivers can expect to see the new 2012 Chevrolet Caprice PPV cruising city streets as early as mid-2011.


Love it how those assholes phrase it like it's a good thing.
Will be helpful "gathering" more money from the tax payers.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 26, 2011, 02:08:30 PM
http://articles.cnn.com/2008-08-07/justice/mayor.warran...


A Maryland mayor is asking the federal government to investigate why SWAT team members burst into his home without knocking and shot his two dogs to death in an investigation into a drug smuggling scheme.

"This has been a difficult week and a half for us," Cheye Calvo, mayor of Berwyn Heights, Maryland, said Thursday. "We lost our family dogs. We did it at the hands of sheriff's deputies who burst through our front door, rifles blazing."

The raid last week was led by the Prince George's County Police Department, with the sheriff's special operations team assisting, after a package of marijuana was sent to Calvo's home.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 26, 2011, 04:05:31 PM
Love it how those assholes phrase it like it's a good thing.
Will be helpful "gathering" more money from the tax payers.

Technology is a good thing. The plate scanner has the capability to read and log hundreds of plates in a short amount of time and will red flag and annouce any stolen vehicle, felony wanted person and can be used to place suspects in the vicinity of a recent serious crime.

Night vision? Hell yeah... looking for that suspect that just stabbed an old man for his cell phone and ran down a dark alley or into a field?

Where they lose me is the horsepower. We've come a long way since the catch em at any cost days and there isn't a lot of need for horsepower. It will likely result in more collisions going to hot calls because the rookie officers tend to let the adrenaline go to their heads.

   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 03:14:15 AM
Documents: SWAT officer fired 'until his weapon ran dry'
KOLD news ^ | 5/26/2011 | Sonu Wasu


________________________ ________________________ _________-

The Pima County Sheriff's Department released video, audio, and more than 500 pages of incident reports and interview transcripts related to the May 5 shooting death of a former Marine.

The shooting took place while officers were serving a warrant in a drug conspiracy case at Jose Guerena's home, on Redwater Street.

The SWAT team arrived at the home just before 9:30 a.m., hoping that children would be out of the house and at school at that time.

The video of the whole incident times out at 1 minute and 17 seconds.

It starts with a team of SWAT officers driving up to the Guerena home.

It appears to be peaceful and quiet, but in transcripts officers stated they were on high alert, after being told the suspect they were about to encounter could be armed, and that they were heading to a home where the residents may be linked to home invasions, drug deals and possibly murder.

When they get to the scene they quickly take up their positions.

In an audio recording provided to KOLD News 13 by the Sheriff's Department, you can hear SWAT officers knocking on the front door and announcing who they are at least three times. They do this in both English and Spanish.


(Excerpt) Read more at kold.com ...


________________________ ___________________-

This is the definition of the police state.   

There were so many better ways to handle this its not even funny.   

War on Drugs is such total nonsene its not even funny.     


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 03:19:06 AM
Here is the video.

Total bullshit.

http://azstarnet.com/online/video/vmix_79f8c3e2-8804-11e0-a06f-001cc4c002e0.html



I hope these cpps and dupnick go away a long time.   Total nonsense. 




Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 03:27:57 AM
Obama signs 4-year Patriot Act extension in France
YahooNews (AP) ^ | 5/27/2011 | Jim Abrams





WASHINGTON – Congress on Thursday passed a four-year extension of post-Sept. 11 powers to search records and conduct roving wiretaps in pursuit of terrorists. Votes taken in rapid succession in the Senate and House came after lawmakers rejected attempts to temper the law enforcement powers to ensure that individual liberties are not abused.

Following the 250-153 evening vote in the House, the legislation to renew three terrorism-fighting authorities headed for the president's signature with only hours to go before the provisions expire at midnight.

With Obama currently in France, the White House said the president would use an autopen machine that holds a pen and signs his actual signature.


(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 03:58:12 AM
That plate scanner sounds pretty fascist to me. Just like DUI checkpoints.

Check out the video I posted.  Disgusting.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 27, 2011, 04:59:25 AM
That plate scanner sounds pretty fascist to me. Just like DUI checkpoints.

License plates have no expectation of privacy and they can be observed from a public place and are clearly designed as such. I just don't see the connection at all. In fact, it is quite a stretch..


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 04:59:51 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 27, 2011, 05:09:04 AM
Here is the video.

Total bullshit.

http://azstarnet.com/online/video/vmix_79f8c3e2-8804-11e0-a06f-001cc4c002e0.html



I hope these cpps and dupnick go away a long time.   Total nonsense. 




I saw the video. Looks legit to me. I will post a comment I saw on the site that pretty much echos my sentiment.

 SWAT doesn't accidentally arrive at your house. They were there executing a just and valid warrant. They had corroborated information that the people involved in this investigation were violent and carried firearms. The shooting was ABSOLUTELY justified and any of you that are crying for this criminal shocks me. What would you do? Ask the guy if his safety is on and politely ask him to put the assault rifle down?

The Supreme Court has established that police shootings are not to be held to the reasonableness standard of the general public, and listening to you guys crying over this I am thankful for that. This shooting will be evaluated under the standard of what a reasonable OFFICER would do. And PCSO takes many pains to identify themselves, with markings, sirens, yelling police, etc..for the exact scenario that presented itself in this case.

Any subject who levels a firearm at these HEROS did it knowlingly and in wreckless disregard of the safety of him and that of his wife and child. He knew it was the police. His lying wife knew it was the police. And when the family, if they even try it, loses in court, I hope you all will apologive to the HEROS of the PCSO Regional SWAT Team.

I'll add that they were more than reasonable by running the siren. They took longer to make entry after announcing than was probably prudent. You have information there are guns and they may be involved in home invasions you really don't want to allow the suspects to arm themselves like this guy apparently did. When confronted with a suspect with an assault rifle during a dynamic entry you shoot. In fact, placed in that situation, everyone on this board would shoot or likely be dead within a couple years of working the street because you can't make a hard decision under pressure. That the gun was on safe plays no part of the overall situation.

The only thing technically wrong with that entry in my opinion is with the info they had, they waited too long to make entry. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 05:12:13 AM
They did not have a warrant for his house and found nothing at all in the house!   Guess why Sheriff Dipshit wont release the warrant?  Because there was none! 

Please -that video is horrific.   

The siren was only going for a few seconds and did not even sound lke a police siren.  The van was unmarked and there were no marked cars identifying this as police.   

Finally - they did not give the man an adequate time to come to the door before kicking it in.   

This is total bullshit.     



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 27, 2011, 05:19:47 AM
They did not have a warrant for his house and found nothing at all in the house!   Guess why Sheriff Dipshit wont release the warrant?  Because there was none! 

Please -that video is horrific.   

The siren was only going for a few seconds and did not even sound lke a police siren.  The van was unmarked and there were no marked cars identifying this as police.   

Finally - they did not give the man an adequate time to come to the door before kicking it in.   

This is total bullshit.     



Really? You know for a fact they had no warrant? I call bs on it.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: whork25 on May 27, 2011, 05:22:34 AM
I saw the video. Looks legit to me. I will post a comment I saw on the site that pretty much echos my sentiment.

 SWAT doesn't accidentally arrive at your house. They were there executing a just and valid warrant. They had corroborated information that the people involved in this investigation were violent and carried firearms. The shooting was ABSOLUTELY justified and any of you that are crying for this criminal shocks me. What would you do? Ask the guy if his safety is on and politely ask him to put the assault rifle down?

The Supreme Court has established that police shootings are not to be held to the reasonableness standard of the general public, and listening to you guys crying over this I am thankful for that. This shooting will be evaluated under the standard of what a reasonable OFFICER would do. And PCSO takes many pains to identify themselves, with markings, sirens, yelling police, etc..for the exact scenario that presented itself in this case.

Any subject who levels a firearm at these HEROS did it knowlingly and in wreckless disregard of the safety of him and that of his wife and child. He knew it was the police. His lying wife knew it was the police. And when the family, if they even try it, loses in court, I hope you all will apologive to the HEROS of the PCSO Regional SWAT Team.

I'll add that they were more than reasonable by running the siren. They took longer to make entry after announcing than was probably prudent. You have information there are guns and they may be involved in home invasions you really don't want to allow the suspects to arm themselves like this guy apparently did. When confronted with a suspect with an assault rifle during a dynamic entry you shoot. In fact, placed in that situation, everyone on this board would shoot or likely be dead within a couple years of working the street because you can't make a hard decision under pressure. That the gun was on safe plays no part of the overall situation.

The only thing technically wrong with that entry in my opinion is with the info they had, they waited too long to make entry. 
Go fuck yourself


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: whork25 on May 27, 2011, 05:23:50 AM
They found nothing and shoot a man X times for it

How the fuck does that make them heroes???

Then any gangbanger who makes a driveshooting is a hero too right?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 05:29:36 AM
Really? You know for a fact they had no warrant? I call bs on it.

Yes, they had a general neighborhood warrant because they claimed they were investing drug dealing or some shit.   Total nonsense.

Why could they just get this guy on his way to work?   

And since when is swat used to do general warrants?   

Don't you see why the general public increasingly distrusts and has nothing but utter scorn for most cops?       



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: 225for70 on May 27, 2011, 05:30:19 AM
Go fuck yourself

X2,

Only a cop could rationalize the way agnostic does.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 05:51:50 AM
X2,

Only a cop could rationalize the way agnostic does.


Almost every cop i have ever met looks at everyone as a criminal in one form or another.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: whork25 on May 27, 2011, 06:01:49 AM
Yes, they had a general neighborhood warrant because they claimed they were investing drug dealing or some shit.   Total nonsense.

Why could they just get this guy on his way to work?   

And since when is swat used to do general warrants?   

Don't you see why the general public increasingly distrusts and has nothing but utter scorn for most cops?       


All valid points. We talk a lot about cutting spending right now how about firing these fuckers. Lots of nutjobs with guns why do we have to pay their salary? And doesnt it say on the police cars: "To protect and serve?" How the hell is this protect and serve?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: _bruce_ on May 27, 2011, 06:19:11 AM
Go fuck yourself

x3


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 27, 2011, 06:38:54 AM
well this conversation has developed rather well..

Here is a clip from a report out a few hours ago..

Jose Guerena died May 5 after a SWAT team descended on his home in a Tucson suburb with a search warrant. His home was one of four believed to be associated with a drug smuggling operation in the area.

A video released Thursday by the sheriff's department shows the uniformed SWAT team pulling up outside his house, sounding their sirens, banging on the front door -- before kicking it in -- and opening fire shortly after entering the home.

Watch video on CNN affiliate KGUN9

Officers fired more than 70 shots, the investigation showed. Deputies said they opened fire after Guerena, 26, gestured at them with an AR-15 -- a semiautomatic rifle.

Some of the officers said they believed that Guerena fired on them, but the investigation showed that no shots were fired from the weapon and it was never taken off the safety position.

Initial news reports indicated that he had been struck by more than 60 bullets. However, CNN has seen an initial report from the medical examiner that details 22 bullet wounds.




So they had a warrant. To state they had no warrant is untruthful and removes credibility. I call a duck a duck. I acknowledge when officers do wrong, got no problems being critical of police. Being fair after considering all information and known facts is what I'm good at.

I just wish you guys could be more rational with your conclusions...  ;)



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 06:48:41 AM
No they didnt.  The warrant was not specifically for his house from what I understand.  It was a neighborhood wide warrant and did they same thing to another house in the hood.  Notice too how they did not find a damn thing in his house showing that the information supplied to get the warrant was most likely bullshit as well.   

And again -why use SWAT and dynamic entiries for drug search?   Seriously?  It getting some drugs more important than the high likelihood of physical injury and death?  Seriously?  Is retrieving some drugs so important that you literally invade a mans' home with special forces operators in unmarked cars and having military weaponds and tactics?  ?   

And don't get me started with the "CI told m so nonsense".  That is pure bullshit too.  They get some junky to drop dimes on others to avid prosecution and the junky says whatever will keep his ass from getting a felony.   Anyone with a clue knows the deal.   

I grew up with tons of cops and know exactly what they do and the bullshit scams they pull in drug cases to get warrants.  Additionally, most judges rubber stamp warrants anyway.     

Oh and if they thought this guy was involved in the crimes and had credible info - why not get an arrest warrant as well as a search warrant, pick him up at wok and do the search while he is in custody?

Answer - because it was bullshit from day 1.   





   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 08:05:29 AM
Menlo Park Cops Raided Wrong House, Says Claimants in Lawsuit
Officers accused of raiding wrong home during execution of a Nov. search warrant.
By Chris Roberts|  Wednesday, May 18, 2011  |  Updated 2:51 PM PDT





When Menlo Park police officers busted into an East Palo Alto home and pointed a firearm at a two-year old girl in November, they had the wrong house, say the two homeowners, who are filing a $500,000 claim against both cities.

The cops did have a search warrant for a home on Garden Street on Nov. 2, 2010, but it wasn't for the home of Carlos Nava and Melissa Verduzco, whose door cops broke down at 6:45 a.m. that day, reported the Palo Alto Daily News.

The East Palo Alto City Council rejected the claim on an unanimous vote. The Menlo Park City Council has yet to consider the case.

According to the claims, "A sergeant Cowans slammed (Nava's) face to the ground and kneed him in the back of the head. Later, this officer punched (Nava) about the body," the newspaper reported.

Other officers entered Verduzco's room and "pointed laser-sighted firearms" at Verduzco and her 2-year-old daughter, the claims state.


It's unclear which house cops intended to hit and what they were searching for. Menlo Park cops did not comment on the story, according to the newspaper.

Because of the alleged botched raid, Nava suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder, stutters occasionally and has back and neck problems, the claims state. All three have suffered nightmares and "general fear and violation of their civil rights," according to the claims.

East Palo Alto City Attorney Valeria Armento said that the case is a Menlo Park matter, not an East Palo Alto matter. All of the raiding was done by East Palo Alto cops.

Copyright NBC Local Media

 
 
 
 

 
Find this article at:
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Menlo-Park-Cops-Raided-Wrong-House-Says-Claimants-in-Lawsuit-122191569.html

 

________________________ _____________________



They should have sued for millions instead.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 27, 2011, 08:24:15 AM
No they didnt.  The warrant was not specifically for his house from what I understand. By law a warrant has to state certain criteria. It would not be for a nieghborhood as that is general. It can list more than one specific address, but they would contain specific addresses  It was a neighborhood wide warrant and did they same thing to another house in the hood.  Notice too how they did not find a damn thing in his house showing that the information supplied to get the warrant was most likely bullshit as well.   

And again -why use SWAT and dynamic entiries for drug search?   Seriously?  It getting some drugs more important than the high likelihood of physical injury and death?  Seriously?  Is retrieving some drugs so important that you literally invade a mans' home with special forces operators in unmarked cars and having military weaponds and tactics?  ? 

Prior to running any warrant a threat assessment is done. At my department it's an actual checklist. If there are indicators that there are weapons in the house and the suspect(s) have a history of violence, in this case there were allegations of home invasions then SWAT runs them. So it would be SOP for SWAT to run such a warrant   

And don't get me started with the "CI told m so nonsense".  (no one said anything about CI, but even with CI's there is criteria that has to be met. CI has to have been in premise and observed specific things within a given period of time, usually the observation has to be within 72hrs )That is pure bullshit too.  They get some junky to drop dimes on others to avid prosecution and the junky says whatever will keep his ass from getting a felony.   Anyone with a clue knows the deal.   

I grew up with tons of cops and know exactly what they do and the bullshit scams they pull in drug cases to get warrants.  Additionally, most judges rubber stamp warrants anyway.  Often times warrants are denied. But generally before a judge is approached with a warrant the officers have made certain they have enough information to meet the criteria. That is probably why you get the impression it is rubberstamped    

Oh and if they thought this guy was involved in the crimes and had credible info - why not get an arrest warrant as well as a search warrant, pick him up at wok and do the search while he is in custody? Easier said than done. A confrontation at a Wendy's full of people isn't as easy or as safe as the home. Approaching and getting into position on many places of employment is not easily done. Many factors go into where and when to run a warrant.

Answer - because it was bullshit from day 1.  Your conclusion ignores a lot of facts, but then, if you are prejuduced against something, it's expected.  





   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 08:27:27 AM
Yeah ok, this guys only record was a few traffic tickets.    Enough for your theory.   FAIL.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 08:30:07 AM


Right - because is safer taking out a dudes house like Navy Seals in daylight.   ::)  ::)

As for the CI - obviously that was bullshit as they found nothing at all.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 08:54:06 AM
We've Gone from a Nation of Laws to a Nation of Powerful Men Making Laws in Secret
zero hedge ^ | 5/27/11 | George Washington


________________________ ________________________ __



Preface: Some defendants are no longer allowed to see the "secret evidence" which the government is using against them. See this and this.

The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that judges can throw out cases because they don't like or believe the plaintiff ... even before anyone has had the chance to conduct discovery to prove their case. In other words, judges' secret biases can be the basis for denying people their day in court, without even having to examine the facts.

Claims of national security are being used to keep the shenanigans of the biggest banks an corporations secret, and to crush dissent.

But this essay focuses on something else: the fact that the laws themselves are now being kept secret.

America is supposed to be a nation of laws which apply to everyone equally, regardless of wealth or power.

Founded on the Constitution and based upon the separation of powers, we escaped from the British monarchy - a "nation of men" where the law is whatever the king says it is.

However, many laws are now "secret" - known only to a handful of people, and oftentimes hidden even from the part of our government which is supposed to make laws in the first place: Congress.

The Patriot Act

Congress just re-authorized the Patriot Act for another 3 years.

However, Senator Wyden notes that the government is using a secret interpretation of the Patriot Act different from what Congress and the public believe. Senator Wyden's press release of today states:

Speaking on the floor of the U.S Senate during the truncated debate on the reauthorization of the PATRIOT ACT for another four years, U.S. Senator Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) – a member of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence -- warned his colleagues that a vote to extend the bill without amendments that would ban any Administration’s ability to keep internal interpretations of the Patriot Act classified will eventually cause public outrage.

Known as Secret Law, the official interpretation of the Patriot Act could dramatically differ from what the public believes the law allows. This could create severe violations of the Constitutional and Civil Rights of American Citizens.

***

I have served on the Senate Intelligence Committee for ten years, and I don’t take a backseat to anybody when it comes to the importance of protecting genuinely sensitive sources and collection methods. But the law itself should never be secret – voters have a need and a right to know what the law says, and what their government thinks the text of the law means, so that they can decide whether the law is appropriately written and ratify or reject decisions that their elected officials make on their behalf.



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 27, 2011, 09:02:39 AM
I read in the article the wife saw the police outside through a window and yelled to her husband.... Now with the siren, knock on the door more than once with an announcement more than once that they were the police, and her visual that they were the police, care to explain why he still thought he should grab his assault rifle and meet up with em?

   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 09:14:36 AM
I read in the article the wife saw the police outside through a window and yelled to her husband.... Now with the siren, knock on the door more than once with an announcement more than once that they were the police, and her visual that they were the police, care to explain why he still thought he should grab his assault rifle and meet up with em?

   

How did know they were police?  They were in an unmarked vehicle and dressed like commandos.    Again - this goes to even something more basic - where do the police think its ok to do this for the sole purpose of retrieving some drugs with such a high liklihood of physical harm and danger to others?   
   

Total bullshit.   The war on drugs, and I dont or have ever used drugs in any form, is nothing but a massive scam on the taxpayer and does nothing but keep far too many govt workers employed at a tremendous cost to the taxpayer. 

Even if he did have marijuana in his house - does that justify this crap?   In a police state run by thug cops - yes of course they will justify anything.   

This whole swat team nonseseis pure bullshit.   Were they trying to apprehend a fugitive for murder?   Responding to a hostage situation? Responding to a violent crime in progress like a violtent home invasion? 

No.  These wannabes were all jacked up to retrieve some drugs and killed a former marine and now two kids are without a father. 



AGAIN - DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND WHY THE AVERAGE PERSON HATES THE POLICE NOW?   



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 10:26:27 AM

AGAIN - DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND WHY THE AVERAGE PERSON HATES THE POLICE NOW?   



I don't think the average person hates the police.  It's usually people who have had bad experiences with the police who "hate" them. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 10:30:28 AM
I don't think the average person hates the police.  It's usually people who have had bad experiences with the police who "hate" them. 


Not where I live for sure.    Did you watch the video I posted?   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 10:33:22 AM

Not where I live for sure.    Did you watch the video I posted?   

Which one? 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 10:34:53 AM
Which one? 

The one of the ex-marine getting killed.   Short of an active hostage situation or fugitive wanted for capital murder - I dont see how anyone condones that.     


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 10:36:27 AM
The one of the ex-marine getting killed.   Short of an active hostage situation or fugitive wanted for capital murder - I dont see how anyone condones that.     

You'll have to link me.  You posted a number of videos in this thread. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 10:38:02 AM
Here is the video.

Total bullshit.

http://azstarnet.com/online/video/vmix_79f8c3e2-8804-11e0-a06f-001cc4c002e0.html



I hope these cpps and dupnick go away a long time.   Total nonsense. 




BUMP


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 10:41:38 AM
BUMP

Thanks.  How could you possibly draw any conclusions based on that 1:17 minute clip?  Impossible for me to say whether they acted reasonably or not. 

Why was the SWAT team called?  What happened when they entered the home? 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 10:41:50 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFhZ-G1Pb1Q


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 10:42:54 AM
Thanks.  How could you possibly draw any conclusions based on that 1:17 minute clip?  Impossible for me to say whether they acted reasonably or not. 

Why was the SWAT team called?  What happened when they entered the home? 

Very easily - SWAT should not have been there in the first place and is signs of a growing police state. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 10:44:09 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTXCSOUl9W4


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 10:52:47 AM
Very easily - SWAT should not have been there in the first place and is signs of a growing police state. 

Sounds like they had the right to be there if they had a warrant.  A judge must have signed off on it.  Police obtaining and executing a warrant isn't evidence of a police state. 

I watched the second clip.  Still not enough information.  The wife saw the SWAT team.  Pretty obvious it wasn't a home invasion.  He shouldn't have pointed a rifle at armed men with "SWAT" signs all over the place.  It's a tragedy that this guy was killed, but I would have shot him too if he pointed a gun at me. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 10:57:09 AM
Why do you feel that it's OK for the police to point a gun at you, but you not to point one back?

If the police knock on my door with search warrant and guns drawn, I will not be stupid enough to point a rifle at them.  That's essentially suicide by cop. 

If I'm a cop with a search warrant and someone points a gun at me, I would shoot them in a heartbeat.  Sounds like they followed proper use of force guidelines.  You don't wait for someone to pull the trigger before you fire. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 10:57:29 AM
Sounds like they had the right to be there if they had a warrant.  A judge must have signed off on it.  Police obtaining and executing a warrant isn't evidence of a police state. 

I watched the second clip.  Still not enough information.  The wife saw the SWAT team.  Pretty obvious it wasn't a home invasion.  He shouldn't have pointed a rifle at armed men with "SWAT" signs all over the place.  It's a tragedy that this guy was killed, but I would have shot him too if he pointed a gun at me. 


Again - its the police state that enables this shit in the first place!   Why couldnt they get this guy at work or in his car and then done the warrant?   Mind you there were no drugs in the house.  

Again - without an active hostage situation or horrific crime in prgress like terrr event or something of that nature - why would SWAT be employed for this?  

ts utterly absurd.  
 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 10:59:51 AM
If the police knock on my door with search warrant and guns drawn, I will not be stupid enough to point a rifle at them.  That's essentially suicide by cop. 

If I'm a cop with a search warrant and someone points a gun at me, I would shoot them in a heartbeat.  Sounds like they followed proper use of force guidelines.  You don't wait for someone to pull the trigger before you fire. 

Oh yeah, cause the really knocked and waited for someone to come downstairs and repond on that.   again - they were in an unmarked car, no uniformofficers, all dressed like commandos in a way no one would know WTF is going on.   

This is the gestapo plain and simple. 

And again - lets say he did have drugs -does that justify such reckless tactics in a residential hood in the first place?   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 11:03:17 AM
So what you're really saying is that if this were WW2 and the gestapo showed up, you'd just go willingly?

You do realize that this is exactly how that shit started.




What gets me is that is that this was for a general search warrant, not even an arrest warrant!    

Think about that - this guy was not even accused of a crime in the first place and they sent the gestapo to his house over what most likely was a tip from a CI tryig to avoid prosecution ad save his own ass and had motive to supply bullshit info to the cops. 

This s where I turn all lib on some stuff - the war on drugs does not justify this crap. 
    



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 11:04:47 AM

Again - its the police state that enables this shit in the first place!   Why couldnt they get this guy at work or in his car and then done the warrant?   Mind you there were no drugs in the house.  

Again - without an active hostage situation or horrific crime in prgress like terrr event or something of that nature - why would SWAT be employed for this?  

ts utterly absurd.  
 

A police state would be the police busting down the door without a warrant.  Or a situation like Amadou Diallo.  

I don't have a problem with cops who use the system to do their job.  If they had no basis to search the guy's house, the judge wouldn't have given them a warrant (unless they lied to get to the warrant).  

And we can't judge whether their search of the house was reasonable based on what they find or don't find after the search is over.  I think we have to look at whatever information they had when they got the warrant to determine whether it was appropriate, followed by whether they followed proper use of force guidelines for their department.  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 11:07:35 AM
A police state would be the police busting down the door without a warrant.  Or a situation like Amadou Diallo.  

I don't have a problem with cops who use the system to do their job.  If they had no basis to search the guy's house, the judge wouldn't have given them a warrant (unless they lied to get to the warrant).  

And we can't judge whether their search of the house was reasonable based on what they find or don't find after the search is over.  I think we have to look at whatever information they had when they got the warrant to determine whether it was appropriate, followed by whether they followed proper use of force guidelines for their department.  


I'm not arguing cops showing up to execute to do a search warrant.  Im saying you dont send Spec Ops decked out for combat for stuff like this, which used to be done by uniform officers.       


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 27, 2011, 11:07:44 AM
How did know they were police?  They were in an unmarked vehicle and dressed like commandos.    Again - this goes to even something more basic - where do the police think its ok to do this for the sole purpose of retrieving some drugs with such a high liklihood of physical harm and danger to others?   
   

Total bullshit.   The war on drugs, and I dont or have ever used drugs in any form, is nothing but a massive scam on the taxpayer and does nothing but keep far too many govt workers employed at a tremendous cost to the taxpayer. 

Even if he did have marijuana in his house - does that justify this crap?   In a police state run by thug cops - yes of course they will justify anything.   

This whole swat team nonseseis pure bullshit.   Were they trying to apprehend a fugitive for murder?   Responding to a hostage situation? Responding to a violent crime in progress like a violtent home invasion? 

No.  These wannabes were all jacked up to retrieve some drugs and killed a former marine and now two kids are without a father. 



AGAIN - DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND WHY THE AVERAGE PERSON HATES THE POLICE NOW?   



The average person likes the police. I didn't know we were arguing what the average citizen thought. Recent polls in my city show a better than 80% positive response to the question "Do you think the police are doing a good job?"

I'm discussing this particular incident. Anybody above the age of 6 can recognize a swat team outside their window. You are wanting me to suspend logic and believe that she actually thought, with the sirens, the knock, the announcement of police, the "POLICE"  on the uniforms and having movies and television shows for the last 20 yrs showing what SWAT looks like she decided she must be being invaded by commando troops? Riiiiiight.

Reports say the suspect was "also was involved in drug smuggling, strong-armed robberies and human smuggling"

Let me play you for just a second and use your ability to jump to conclusions ...


Here is what must have happened..

Suspect is a drug dealer who also was a suspect in home invasions and human smuggling. He had several guns and body armor along with an assault rifle. What innocent person owns body armor? The military doesn't let you keep theirs when you leave.. No, people who commit home invasions have lots of guns and body armor.

Wife spotted what was obviously police outside the house. She's like "oh shit, did we get rid of the evidence already? Did we forget anything?" She yells to hubby "Baby, the police are outside with helmets and guns and looks like they want to come in!"

Hubby, waking up says "Shit! the pigs are here!" no way I'm going down without a fight and grabs his AR-15 and confronts them forgetting the safety is on because he's half asleep. As he shouts out to come and get some he is surprised to find its on safe. In the meantime the SWAT officers open up on the obvious threat..

NOW we are discussing it on an even playing field...  

When you want to discuss the issue rationally, give me a shout..


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 11:09:02 AM
So what you're really saying is that if this were WW2 and the gestapo showed up, you'd just go willingly?

You do realize that this is exactly how that shit started.



No, I'm saying what I said:  if SWAT shows up at my house with guns drawn, I will not be stupid enough to point a rifle at them.  

This is not WWII.  There is no gestapo.  

Not sure what you mean by how this got started?  You mean this guy getting shot?  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 27, 2011, 11:09:35 AM

I'm not arguing cops showing up to execute to do a search warrant.  Im saying you dont send Spec Ops decked out for combat for stuff like this, which used to be done by uniform officers.       
Yes, until a large number of uniform cops kept getting killed... now when there is a potential and articulable threat of violence SWAT, with better training and equipment does it. Makes perfect sense ..  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 27, 2011, 11:10:18 AM
A police state would be the police busting down the door without a warrant.  Or a situation like Amadou Diallo.  

I don't have a problem with cops who use the system to do their job.  If they had no basis to search the guy's house, the judge wouldn't have given them a warrant (unless they lied to get to the warrant).  

And we can't judge whether their search of the house was reasonable based on what they find or don't find after the search is over.  I think we have to look at whatever information they had when they got the warrant to determine whether it was appropriate, followed by whether they followed proper use of force guidelines for their department.  

exactly


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 11:11:32 AM

I'm not arguing cops showing up to execute to do a search warrant.  Im saying you dont send Spec Ops decked out for combat for stuff like this, which used to be done by uniform officers.       

Why not?  If they suspect the person is armed, the police should do whatever they can to protect themselves. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 27, 2011, 11:13:16 AM
Why not?  If they suspect the person is armed, the police should do whatever they can to protect themselves. 

X2


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 11:17:47 AM
Yes, until a large number of uniform cops kept getting killed... now when there is a potential and articulable threat of violence SWAT, with better training and equipment does it. Makes perfect sense ..  

Sorry - you signed up for the job.  You knew exactly what you were getting in to and "officer safety" IMHO is not nearly as important as the constitution and the presumption of innonence of people  

Again - "reports"  ? ? ?    By who?  

And if there were sufficient reports  to warrant an arrest, why not go for an arrest warrant and take the guy at work or in his car instead of playing Navy Seal?  

Bro - you may be a good cop, but you are like 99% i have ever met, you will defend  almost anything othe cops do, even when it means innocent people getting killed like this ex marine who did two tours in Iraq.  

 

     "Officer safety" should not mean people having to give up their rights just because the "bravest" all of a sudden can't deal with  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 11:18:28 AM
Why not?  If they suspect the person is armed, the police should do whatever they can to protect themselves. 

For real?   Beach  - the why not just shoot everyone first?   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 11:22:39 AM
For real?   Beach  - the why not just shoot everyone first?   

Because that would be murder. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 11:25:15 AM
Why not?  If they suspect the person is armed, the police should do whatever they can to protect themselves. 


So if the cops execute a search warrant in the middle of the night in my house, of which i have no idea about, and I have my gun because I think my house is being broken in to since its the middle of the night, I should be killed?

Sorry beach, that is bullsit - this is where I really dont give a damn when police get lit up when these raids go wrong.    They bring it on themselves though these tactics yet they are so caught up in the culture of "bravest" bullshit which encourages his stuff.  

Again - these cops needs to take a lot more lessons in con law, crim pro, basic common sense, and less playing wannabe navy seal.  
  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: 225for70 on May 27, 2011, 11:27:44 AM
Sorry - you signed up for the job.  You knew exactly what you were getting in to and "officer safety" IMHO is not nearly as important as the constitution and the presumption of innonence of people  

Again - "reports"  ? ? ?    By who?  

And if there were sufficient reports  to warrant an arrest, why not go for an arrest warrant and take the guy at work or in his car instead of playing Navy Seal?  

Bro - you may be a good cop, but you are like 99% i have ever met, you will defend  almost anything othe cops do, even when it means innocent people getting killed like this ex marine who did two tours in Iraq.  

 

     "Officer safety" should not mean people having to give up their rights just because the "bravest" all of a sudden can't deal with  

Great post..


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 11:29:35 AM
Because that would be murder. 


Yeah - and in cases like this, and that guy with the golf club - that is exacty what happened.    

Lets say this guy thought the house was being broken in to and realized it was the cops at the last minute yet still had the AR15, do you honestly believe he still would have walked out of there alive?


Sorry - peoples' rights to be secure in their house are more important to me than the cops' navy seal act.  Its total bullshit and changing thenature of the society.

This is EXACTLY why the colonists started offing the red coats, and we will get there too before long unless these wannabes change their tactics.            


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 11:30:17 AM

So if the cops execute a search warrant in the middle of the night in my house, of which i have no idea about, and I have my gun because I think my house is being broken in to since its the middle of the night, I should be killed?

Sorry beach, that is bullsit - this is where I really dont give a damn when police get lit up when these raids go wrong.    They bring it on themselves though these tactics yet they are so caught up in the culture of "bravest" bullshit which encourages his stuff.  

Again - these cops needs to take a lot more lessons in con law, crim pro, basic common sense, and less playing wannabe navy seal.  
  

If cops execute a search warrant in the middle of the night at your home, identify themselves, and you point a gun at them, then yes you or anyone else who does so should be shot.

Not sure that is a realistic scenario, because I doubt most search warrants are carried out in the dead of night.  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 11:34:47 AM
Yeah - and in cases like this, and that guy with the golf club - that is exacty what happened.    

Lets say this guy thought the house was being broken in to and realized it was the cops at the last minute yet still had the AR15, do you honestly believe he still would have walked out of there alive?


Sorry - peoples' rights to be secure in their house are more important to me than the cops' navy seal act.  Its total bullshit and changing thenature of the society.

This is EXACTLY why the colonists started offing the red coats, and we will get there too before long unless these wannabes change their tactics.            

Don't you need more information before concluding the police murdered the former Marine? 

Do you really believe this guy thought his house was being invaded when his wife saw the SWAT team and told them she had a baby?  This was broad daylight. 

The peoples' right to be secure in their homes is the reason why police ordinarily have to get a search warrant from a judge before entering someone's home.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 11:40:35 AM
If cops execute a search warrant in the middle of the night at your home, identify themselves, and you point a gun at them, then yes you or anyone else who does so should be shot.

Not sure that is a realistic scenario, because I doubt most search warrants are carried out in the dead of night.  

Yeah cause at 2am and people screaming I can really ascertain what is going on.   

Did you read my story about the West Point grad who was killed at COSTCO?

Cops gave conflicting instructions and he was shot because he was folloing the instructions of one and the other shot him.   

Dude was totally innocent and the jackboots came blazing in like wild fire and killed him.   

There are way too many of these cases happening lately, and its not the fault of the public.     



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 11:44:36 AM
Yeah cause at 2am and people screaming I can really ascertain what is going on.   

Did you read my story about the West Point grad who was killed at COSTCO?

Cops gave conflicting instructions and he was shot because he was folloing the instructions of one and the other shot him.   

Dude was totally innocent and the jackboots came blazing in like wild fire and killed him.   

There are way too many of these cases happening lately, and its not the fault of the public.     



Did not see the story.  I'm not going to defend cops who engage in misconduct.  But I also will not say all or a majority of cops are bad, or we're in some police state, because a handful of cops break the law. 

You've mentioned the "animals" who live in or around your city a number of times.  How do you think law enforcement should deal with those folks? 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 11:47:47 AM
Don't you need more information before concluding the police murdered the former Marine? 

Do you really believe this guy thought his house was being invaded when his wife saw the SWAT team and told them she had a baby?  This was broad daylight. 

The peoples' right to be secure in their homes is the reason why police ordinarily have to get a search warrant from a judge before entering someone's home.   

What ih she was like "go downstairs and see what it is, I cant tell they have guns"   He goes downstairs with the gun ON SAFETY not knowing what it is, they see him through the glass with the gun and just light him up.  

Utter bullshit.  No uniformed officers, no squad cars, nothing.  

Again - why not call up the house and say they are there to conduct a search warrant?  oh god forbid some drugs get tossed in the toilet -oh the horror, lets instead conduct a delta force operation to "preserve" evidence, mind you in a house to where the owner has no history at all but some tickets, etc. 

Dont you see how nuts this is?     


  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 11:55:33 AM
Did not see the story.  I'm not going to defend cops who engage in misconduct.  But I also will not say all or a majority of cops are bad, or we're in some police state, because a handful of cops break the law. 

You've mentioned the "animals" who live in or around your city a number of times.  How do you think law enforcement should deal with those folks? 

According to the law, constiution, and presumption of innocence lik we are all afforded.   

Most cops are of the mind set that you are guilty until proven innocent.   

Another thing - cops are supposed to hand you the warrant for review and you let them in.   If the guy smashes the dor closes, then they go in. 

From what i can tell in the video - there was may 10 seconds at best of muddles yelling at the door before they bashed it in like gestapo jack booted thugs. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Deicide on May 27, 2011, 11:56:32 AM
What ih she was like "go downstairs and see what it is, I cant tell they have guns"   He goes downstairs with the gun ON SAFETY not knowing what it is, they see him through the glass with the gun and just light him up.  

Utter bullshit.  No uniformed officers, no squad cars, nothing.  

Again - why not call up the house and say they are there to conduct a search warrant?  oh god forbid some drugs get tossed in the toilet -oh the horror, lets instead conduct a delta force operation to "preserve" evidence, mind you in a house to where the owner has no history at all but some tickets, etc. 

Dont you see how nuts this is?     


  

Beach Bum will defend the State and state authority no matter what. Just a fact.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 11:58:09 AM
What ih she was like "go downstairs and see what it is, I cant tell they have guns"   He goes downstairs with the gun ON SAFETY not knowing what it is, they see him through the glass with the gun and just light him up.  

Utter bullshit.  No uniformed officers, no squad cars, nothing.  

Again - why not call up the house and say they are there to conduct a search warrant?  oh god forbid some drugs get tossed in the toilet -oh the horror, lets instead conduct a delta force operation to "preserve" evidence, mind you in a house to where the owner has no history at all but some tickets, etc. 

Dont you see how nuts this is?     


  

They were wearing clothes that said "SWAT."  The wife spoke to them.  I don't know all the facts, but based on what I've watched in the clips you posted, I find it hard to believe they didn't know SWAT was at the door.    

It doesn't matter if the guy had his rifle on safe.  The police don't know that.  It's unreasonable to require police to determine whether someone actually intends to fire a weapon if the weapon is being pointed at them.  I can't imagine their rules of engagement would require them to try and figure out whether a weapon is on safe.  

Don't you think it's reasonable to assume that someone holding a weapon in a firing position has every intention to fire the weapon?  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 11:58:54 AM
Beach Bum will defend the State and state authority no matter what. Just a fact.

Decide will drop into a thread, make an unsupported absurd comment, and run away.  Just a fact.   :)


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 12:03:19 PM
They were wearing clothes that said "SWAT."  The wife spoke to them.  I don't know all the facts, but based on what I've watched in the clips you posted, I find it hard to believe they didn't know SWAT was at the door.    

It doesn't matter if the guy had his rifle on safe.  The police don't know that.  It's unreasonable to require police to determine whether someone actually intends to fire a weapon if the weapon is being pointed at them.  I can't imagine their rules of engagement would require them to try and figure out whether a weapon is on safe.  

Don't you think it's reasonable to assume that someone holding a weapon in a firing position has every intention to fire the weapon?  


Again - they bashed the door down and started shooting after about 10 seconds.  There is no evidence he knew they were swat.  

He never fired a shot and they lied about that too, no to mention keeping EMT from him for an hour.  

By the way - whatever happened to "drop your weapon"        ? ? ?    


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 12:04:10 PM
Wait.

What time of day was this?

You can see writing on things in pitch black darkness?

Didnt you watch the vid?   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 12:05:53 PM
I wish I were on this jury.   

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XP0f00_JMak


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 12:20:10 PM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWROMSE5eKY



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 12:23:36 PM
Remember this gem? 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXqGT74vBKk


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 12:55:03 PM

Again - they bashed the door down and started shooting after about 10 seconds.  There is no evidence he knew they were swat.  

He never fired a shot and they lied about that too, no to mention keeping EMT from him for an hour.  

By the way - whatever happened to "drop your weapon"        ? ? ?    

That does not sound accurate to me.  The wife said she saw them, held up something telling them she had a child, then went and woke her husband up.  No way that happened in ten seconds.  The fact the wife saw SWAT and they were wearing clothes identifying them as SWAT makes it pretty obvious they knew it wasn't some home invasion. 

"Drop your weapon"?  Seriously?  Who says that outside of the movies?  I would think pointing the weapon is enough. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 12:56:58 PM
That does not sound accurate to me.  The wife said she saw them, held up something telling them she had a child, then went and woke her husband up.  No way that happened in ten seconds.  The fact the wife saw SWAT and they were wearing clothes identifying them as SWAT makes it pretty obvious they knew it wasn't some home invasion. 

"Drop your weapon"?  Seriously?  Who says that outside of the movies?  I would think pointing the weapon is enough. 


Watch the video again.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 01:01:11 PM
Another thing Beach - she clearly stated on the 911 phne call she had no idea who they were.  

And the cops are lying again here.    They are disgusting.  They have already been caught in about 5 lies so far   

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I7EJszqTgc


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 01:03:14 PM
She clearly says she did not know who shot him.  This disgusting vermin ketp EMT away for an hour. 

I hope each of them gets life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LsxnRUNKuE



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 01:04:23 PM
You should only fire your weapon if you or someone you know is in imminent danger.

It's why you can't shoot someone in the back.

You are in imminent danger when someone points a weapon at you.  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 01:05:27 PM
You are in imminent danger when someone points a weapon at you.  


Like the gestapo nazis who showed up at this innocent guys home?   



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 01:07:46 PM
Another thing Beach - she clearly stated on the 911 phne call she had no idea who they were.  

And the cops are lying again here.    They are disgusting.  They have already been caught in about 5 lies so far   

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I7EJszqTgc

Why are you assuming she is telling the truth? 

She did say she told them she had a baby.  How could she talk to them and not know who they were? 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 01:09:35 PM
Like the gestapo nazis who showed up at this innocent guys home?   



Nah.  Just in general.  You disagree that you are in imminent danger when someone points a weapon at you? 

C'mon dude.  Are you really saying that if someone points a weapon at you, you will tell them to drop their weapon, ask them if it's loaded, ensure it's not safe, etc.?   You know good and well if someone pointed a weapon at you, and you were armed, you'd cap them.  I know I would. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 01:10:23 PM
Ha ha ha ha.   Oh lord.   

She said she saw mwn w guns attacking the house.  She is supposed to assume they are cops when no marked cars or uniformed police are rthere? 

How you defend this really is beyond my comprehension, especially since they have already been caught in about 5 lies so far.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 01:17:35 PM
Ha ha ha ha.   Oh lord.  

She said she saw mwn w guns attacking the house.  She is supposed to assume they are cops when no marked cars or uniformed police are rthere?  

How you defend this really is beyond my comprehension, especially since they have already been caught in about 5 lies so far.

I'm not defending what happened.  I need more information.  But . . . based on what I've seen so far, I find it hard to believe she didn't know SWAT was at the door.  I also think the guy was dumb to point a weapon at the police, especially if the weapon was on safe.  

Not sure how you can condemn the police without knowing what really happened.  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 01:19:45 PM
That's not inherently true and it's not what is taught at most police academy training... at least not the ones I used to assist with.

;)

I call BS.   ::)


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: kcballer on May 27, 2011, 01:20:53 PM
Don't point a gun at police officers or you will be shot.  He pointed a gun, and got shot. 

Officers will get off and move onward and upward in their careers. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 01:23:51 PM
I don't believe there is any justification on a search warrant alone for these type of tactics in the first place.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: kcballer on May 27, 2011, 01:24:46 PM
I don't believe there is any justification on a search warrant alone for these type of tactics in the first place.

It's not your call.  You aren't putting yourself in danger are you?  So STFU. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 01:31:34 PM

Unless a person has killed someone already, there is no call for imminent danger, now if he has already killed someone, then you are well within legal law to kill that person.


If you had police training, and this is what you were taught and/or believe, then you should demand a refund. 

I don't believe any legitimate law enforcement agency taught you that kind of nonsense.  That is absolutely ridiculous.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 01:40:49 PM
No kidding TU. We are all guilty until proven innocent now.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 01:43:59 PM
It's often a judgement call, but considering who you are, and you are simply believing this on your own opinion, I'll let you slide.

This is not a "war" there Beach... These are citizens of the United States of America we are talking about... Not enemy combatants.

When a police officer kills an individual he is becoming the judge and jury and denying that citizen due process... So no... I don't think my training and education in the criminal justice field needs a refund.

You simply need to be educated.

Absurd.  Nobody taught you that crap.  I challenge you to find one piece of paper from the use of force guidelines from any law enforcement agency in the country that says:  "Unless a person has killed someone already, there is no call for imminent danger, now if he has already killed someone, then you are well within legal law to kill that person." 

I'll apologize to you if you find something.  But I doubt you will, because that's just retarded. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 01:52:59 PM
They created the situation by showing up like that. 

Regular search warrants are not supposed to be served like this. 



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 01:58:32 PM

You don't have to go far... A quick google will show you the extreme instances when the use of deadly force is warranted.

There are hundreds of cases to back my opinion and many less to back yours.

Since you disbelieve... and are in the minority, why don't you prove ME wrong... You're the one who says I'm full of shit... so you show me.

Being a cop doesn't give you some ability to choose to use deadly force more so than the average citizen.



You pull something out of your rear end and ask me to disprove it?  Absolutely not. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 02:03:07 PM
Today a three-judge panel of the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals held that in a deadly force case brought under the Fourth Amendment, the jury must affirmative be instructed that: "The use of deadly force is inappropriate unless the police officer had probable cause to believe that the suspect posed a threat of serious harm to the officers or others." 

Sorry, but this does not support your position.  An officer has probable cause to believe that a suspect poses a threat of serious harm to officer if the suspect is pointing an assault rifle at him.

To quote Drinking With Bob:  It's common-freaking-sense.  

Since you claim to have had police training, post something (if you still have it) from the portion of your training that discusses the use of deadly force, which confirms your earlier claim about when it's appropriate.  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 02:06:05 PM
Right... So you know more than me, even though I'm the one with experience, but I have to prove it because you choose to not believe it.

Bullshit.


No. You made a retarded statement and asked me to disprove it.  Not going to happen.  
  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Deicide on May 27, 2011, 02:06:10 PM
If you had police training, and this is what you were taught and/or believe, then you should demand a refund. 

I don't believe any legitimate law enforcement agency taught you that kind of nonsense.  That is absolutely ridiculous.   

You also believe that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was legitimate and real.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 02:11:45 PM
You think I'm just hanging on to police policies... Fuck off Beach.

I have been involved in the scenarios... you haven't... go fuck yourself.

Of course you don't believe it... You just wanna claim you know everything. Guess what genius... You don't.

::)

LOL!  Is that all you got?   :)  I don't know quite a bit.  But one thing I do know is you are full of crap on this.  I can't believe you actually believe some of the stuff you say.   :-\ 



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 02:12:18 PM
You also believe that the Gulf of Tonkin incident was legitimate and real.

What??  lol.  What the heck?  lol . . . .


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Deicide on May 27, 2011, 02:15:03 PM
What??  lol.  What the heck?  lol . . . .

That's just another way of saying that you are incredulous when someone makes known that the government has done something fishy.The Gulf of Tonkin is just one example. Another would be multiple instances of our CIA helping to assassinate elected leaders of other countries, installing dictators and turning a blind eye to their crimes. You think it simply did not happen.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 02:17:02 PM
That's just another way of saying that you are incredulous when someone makes known that the government has done something fishy.The Gulf of Tonkin is just one example. Another would be multiple instances of our CIA helping to assassinate elected leaders of other countries, installing dictators and turning a blind eye to their crimes. You think it simply did not happen.

What the heck you talking about?   I thought the issue was when a police officer can use deadly force?   ::)


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on May 27, 2011, 02:18:47 PM
You think I'm just hanging on to police policies... Fuck off Beach.

I have been involved in the scenarios... you haven't... go fuck yourself.

Of course you don't believe it... You just wanna claim you know everything. Guess what genius... You don't.

::)

You've been meltdowning at an alarming rate lately... que pasa, holmes?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 02:19:19 PM
That's because you're scared to fucking look.

What I find the most funny... is that one day, you're gonna be fucked over, or your kid is going to get fucked over, and then you will be the one bitching and complaining.



So now you're resorting to the elementary school "you're scared" approach?  C'mon man.  lol . . . .

I tell you what, this is only the internet.  It's only a message board.  You don't have to support anything you say.  I aint mad atcha.  Take a few deep breaths.   :)

But what you said is still retarded.   :D


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 02:19:35 PM
That's how I look at it.  Beach I am sure is well meaning, buts needs to realize that happened to that ex marine could happen to him or anyone just even the smallest change of circumstances.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on May 27, 2011, 02:21:26 PM
That's how I look at it.  Beach I am sure is well meaning, buts needs to realize that happened to that ex marine could happen to him or anyone just even the smallest change of circumstances.

Probably not.... you're taking what happens to maybe .001% of the population and trying to act like it's happening all over the place.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 02:22:28 PM
That's how I look at it.  Beach I am sure is well meaning, buts needs to realize that happened to that ex marine could happen to him or anyone just even the smallest change of circumstances.

Abuse of police power can happen to anyone. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 02:23:02 PM
No... I'm just tired of talking to you because you're a fucking idiot.

I ain't mad at you either... you're just a buffoon.

Here is an easy solution:  don't engage me.   :)

This is the part where say you're not posting in the thread anymore.   :)


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: 225for70 on May 27, 2011, 02:24:09 PM
Abuse of police power can happen to anyone. 

It's just happens to the police with a greater frequency.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 02:24:17 PM
Probably not.... you're taking what happens to maybe .001% of the population and trying to act like it's happening all over the place.

Correct.  We have nearly a million law enforcement personnel in this country.  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: kcballer on May 27, 2011, 02:31:18 PM
No kidding TU. We are all guilty until proven innocent now.

Not at all.  You are presumed dangerous until proven otherwise.  That is different.  And that stems from the need to protect oneself and the community at large. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 02:37:25 PM
It's just happens to the police with a greater frequency.

Um, wouldn't all abuse of police power happen to the police? 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 02:38:40 PM
No... I will post in this thread, because it's in the right area and the topic starter is keeping it on point and not bitching and moving it to the girls board.

You can still go fuck yourself.

LOL!

(http://www.socalbubble.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/denial-and-the-coming-data-meltdown.jpg)


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on May 27, 2011, 02:39:08 PM
somebody needs to get tu his blankie.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 03:13:55 PM
Just read this report.  According to this, the police were announcing in English and Spanish who they were for 30 minutes: 

At 9:34 a.m., the audiotapes reveal that SWAT officers began what would be about 30 minutes of repeating in English and Spanish: "It's the Pima County Sheriff's Department SWAT team. Anyone inside the house, come out with your hands up, no weapons in your hands."

Complex drug probe triggered SWAT raid
By Fernanda Echavarri Arizona Daily Star | Posted: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:01 am

The man shot and killed by SWAT officers, as well as his brother and another man, were listed as suspects in a complex drug investigation being conducted by the Sheriff's Department, according to documents released Thursday.

That investigation was the reason heavily armed SWAT officers went to Jose Guerena's house to serve a search warrant that ended in his fatal shooting May 5, reports show.

More than 500 pages of officers' statements, evidence lists and witness interviews were released by the Pima County Sheriff's Department. Also released were audiotapes from the shooting scene, radio transmissions and other communications made by law enforcement personnel during the serving of search warrants on four homes on the southwest side.

A short video showing Pima County Regional SWAT team members serving the warrant was also released. The written documents detail what sheriff's personnel did during the incident.

The short video recording shows that deputies approaching Jose Guerena's home turned the sirens on for a few seconds as they approached. It also shows them announcing themselves, then knocking down the front door and firing their guns.
Audiotapes reveal that no SWAT officers entered Guerena's house. Law enforcement officers went into his home only after a robot was sent in and it was determined about an hour after the shooting that Guerena, a former Marine, was dead.

The reports state Jose Guerena; his brother, Alejandro; and Jose Celaya were named as suspects in briefings given to officers before the search warrants were served. Many of the officers' reports refer to the sheriff's long-term drug investigation as the reason for the search warrants.

Reports show about $100,000 in cash, marijuana and firearms were seized that morning from the four homes that were searched.

Items found in Jose Guerena's house included: a Colt .38-caliber handgun, paperwork, tax returns, insurance papers, bank statements and a bank card, reports showed.

Another report said detectives found body armor in a hallway closet and a U.S. Border Patrol hat in the garage.
Some search warrant documents remained sealed and were not released Thursday.

Dramatic video

In the video released by the Sheriff's Department, about five SWAT team members are seen jumping out of the vehicle with shields, helmets and bulletproof vests, all marked "POLICE" across the front and back. The sirens stop and the officers begin shouting "Police, search warrant, open the door," alternating with the same command in Spanish three times before they break down the front door of Guerena's house.

A couple of seconds after the door is opened, one officers says, "Hit him," and all the officers begin shooting from the doorway.

One of the officers falls down a couple of seconds after they open fire, and then all SWAT team members back away from the door, the video shows.

The Sheriff's Department said previously that Guerena pointed an AR-15 rifle at officers as they entered the home. It was determined that Guerena did not fire at officers.

At 9:34 a.m., the audiotapes reveal that SWAT officers began what would be about 30 minutes of repeating in English and Spanish: "It's the Pima County Sheriff's Department SWAT team. Anyone inside the house, come out with your hands up, no weapons in your hands."

Michael Storie, an attorney representing the five SWAT officers who shot at Guerena, said last week that all those officers were separated immediately after the shooting so they could be interviewed and provide objective statements of what happened. The audiotapes reveal that after about 45 minutes, all the SWAT officers are together. They can be heard talking about what happened, according to tape recordings made at the scene.

"That was um, like a movie, the way he jumped out," said the SWAT team leader.

"Well, he waited, he waited and once Hector came up ..." said another SWAT member just before being interrupted by the SWAT leader who said, "What did he say?" Hector is the name of one of the SWAT officers.

Two other voices say they "couldn't hear anything" and that they didn't know if Jose Guerena said anything before the shooting began.

"He yelled something, 'I got something for you' or something," the SWAT leader told them, according to the audiotapes.
The Sheriff's Department said previously that Guerena said something as he pointed his gun at officers.

"I just started boom, boom, boom, boom," said another voice on the tape.

"Yeah, we were all out of ammo when we got back," the SWAT leader said.

While this conversation is going on outside, the robot was sent into the house to check on Jose Guerena, who was shot at least 60 times.

A SWAT deputy directed the robot into the home and observed Guerena lying face down in the kitchen area.

The deputy operating the robot used its arm to apply pressure to Guerena to see if he would respond.

He then used the robot to push down on Guerena's lower and middle back several times but received no response.

While outside, a SWAT member asked the team leader if they were going inside the house. The team leader can be heard on the tape saying no, and the team member said, "Why not? ... Might as well finish what I started."

The deputy operating the robot did not see Guerena's chest rising or falling, as if he were breathing, and said he was "Code 900" or dead, about 50 minutes into the audiotape.

One officer wrote in a report that in a briefing before the incident he was told there was an ongoing narcotics investigation and that suspects may be linked to a double homicide.

Other officers were briefed about a double slaying in Tucson in which a man and his wife were killed during a home invasion that was witnessed by the couple's young daughter.

According to a report, a detective interviewing Jose Guerena's younger brother, Jesus Gerardo Guerena, asked him about the slayings of Manuel and Cynthia Orozco. Jesus Guerena said he knew the couple because they were related to his brother Alejandro's wife.

According to Star archives, Manuel and Cynthia Orozco were killed during a home invasion in March 2010.

A second home

A second SWAT team served a search warrant at a nearby house in the 6200 block of Oklahoma Street at the same time as the shooting. Later that morning officers also served a warrant at two other houses all related to the same investigation, the reports show.

Detective John Mawhinney wrote in his report that he conducted a search of the residence in the 6200 block of West Oklahoma Street in connection with this case and found a large shoebox full of cash under a bed.

A later tally showed the box contained nearly $94,000. He also found a bag of marijuana in the stove and ammunition, his report stated.

Inside the home on Oklahoma, a report states, an AK-47 rifle was found. Guns and ballistic vests were found at several of the residences, the reports show.

Seven vehicles were also found at the house on Oklahoma. Several reports indicated drug dogs used in searches at the house alerted officers to the smell of narcotics on most of the vehicles there.

While investigators were searching the Oklahoma residence, a pickup truck pulled up to the house. A report states that Alejandro Guerena was driving the truck. He was detained.

The report states Alejandro Guerena told investigators there was a "pistola" in the truck. Detectives recovered a .45-caliber handgun from the vehicle.

WIFE INTERVIEWED

Also released were statements made after the shooting by Vanessa Guerena, Jose Guerena's wife.

She and the couple's young son were in the home at the time of the shooting.

She described having to talk to her 4-year-old son about his father after he asked what had happened to his dad. She told him he had been shot but would be OK.

"All I want to know, if he's alive," she told a detective.

The detective replied: "I'm sorry, he died."

"No! What were you guys thinking?" she said.

The detective told her the team was serving a search warrant and "never intended on shooting him. That was not the intention."

Vanessa Guerena said her husband was left alone for a long time after the shooting.

She said her son told her, "Mommy, I saw my daddy on the floor, with all this blood. What happened? Is he gonna be OK?' "

The Sheriff's Department would not comment on the reports and tapes.

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_ffd3cd6b-6564-59a9-8b43-a1635ae66bd4.html


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Bindare_Dundat on May 27, 2011, 03:44:13 PM
Thats the first time in this type of situation I've read that SWAT calls out for someone for about 30 minutes. Is that usual procedure cause all I ever see is movement so fast it doesnt allow anyone time to react.

All they found was weed from what I gather, another reason to legalize the fucking stuff already.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 05:00:15 PM
Look at the damn tape.  30 minutes my ass.   More lying.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 05:10:12 PM
Look at the damn tape.  30 minutes my ass.   More lying.

They are reporting on what the audiotapes show, not what the police say the audiotapes show.  Sounds like the reporter actually listened to the tapes.  At least that's the way I read the article.  ("the audiotapes reveal that SWAT officers began what would be about 30 minutes of repeating in English and Spanish")


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 05:19:17 PM
Did you watch the video I posted? 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 05:26:14 PM
Did you watch the video I posted? 

I watched two of the videos you posted. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 05:28:34 PM
I'm gonna post the wifes entire statement later. I believe her over the cops.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 05:39:12 PM
I'm gonna post the wifes entire statement later. I believe her over the cops.

In the short clip I saw of her, she did not sound believable, but I'll watch a longer statement if you have one.

But what about the reporter apparently saying he/she listened to the audio of the cops announcing their presence for 30 minutes?  Do you interpret that part of the article the same way? 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 27, 2011, 06:45:12 PM
I watched the video. Where are they saying the thirty min occured? 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 07:30:54 PM
I watched the video. Where are they saying the thirty min occured? 

I got if from the article I posted: 

At 9:34 a.m., the audiotapes reveal that SWAT officers began what would be about 30 minutes of repeating in English and Spanish: "It's the Pima County Sheriff's Department SWAT team. Anyone inside the house, come out with your hands up, no weapons in your hands."


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 27, 2011, 09:41:46 PM
What typically happens in a case like this is some segments of the public immediatley condemn the officers before the investigation is complete. When that happens, you can pretty much discont their opinions as biased.

It really shows the level of ignorance when it is suggested in cases where there is a potential for violence that regular street cops knock on the door and announce they are there, then wait patiently while the people inside grab weapons and destroy evidence. That "it is there job they signed on for" is perhaps the most ignorant statement I have read on Getbig.

I've been in law enforcement over 25 yrs and I've assisted in removing unfit officers from the force. I've called a duck a duck in every case, weighing all the facts and circumstances. I wish some segments of the public would educate them on what it actually takes to arrest bad guys on a regular basis instead of running off at the mouth about shooting the guns out of their hands or judo chopping unconcious instead of firing at someone with a knife who is charging you, as I have actually heard ignorant people suggest.

The fact police officers have in the past killed innocent people in high stress situations making bad decisions is tragic and obviously something we train hard not to do. I have personally drawn my weapon in probably over a hundred instances making high risk felony stops, arresting people who are armed, or had committed violent crimes and likely armed. I've never shot anyone. Of the 1600 sworn on the force, only about 10 have ever shot anyone. There is a lot of restraint shown on a regular basis. I've had situations where I could have legally shot someone and at risk to myself took a calculated risk and did not. I know many others who have done the same

Lets let the facts come to light before we conclude what they should or should not have done in this case 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 27, 2011, 09:43:51 PM
You should only fire your weapon if you or someone you know is in imminent danger.

It's why you can't shoot someone in the back.

I agree... and if an AR 15 is pointed at me I am in imminent danger...wtf??


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 27, 2011, 09:47:49 PM
According to the law, constiution, and presumption of innocence lik we are all afforded.   

Most cops are of the mind set that you are guilty until proven innocent.   

Another thing - cops are supposed to hand you the warrant for review and you let them in.   If the guy smashes the dor closes, then they go in. 

From what i can tell in the video - there was may 10 seconds at best of muddles yelling at the door before they bashed it in like gestapo jack booted thugs. 

You watch too many movies... cops are NOT required to hand you the warrant at the time of service but have a signed warrant available to show when the scene is secure.

The classic "let me see the warrant before you come in " is just for the movies


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 27, 2011, 09:53:44 PM
What typically happens in a case like this is some segments of the public immediatley condemn the officers before the investigation is complete. When that happens, you can pretty much discont their opinions as biased.

It really shows the level of ignorance when it is suggested in cases where there is a potential for violence that regular street cops knock on the door and announce they are there, then wait patiently while the people inside grab weapons and destroy evidence. That "it is there job they signed on for" is perhaps the most ignorant statement I have read on Getbig.

I've been in law enforcement over 25 yrs and I've assisted in removing unfit officers from the force. I've called a duck a duck in every case, weighing all the facts and circumstances. I wish some segments of the public would educate them on what it actually takes to arrest bad guys on a regular basis instead of running off at the mouth about shooting the guns out of their hands or judo chopping unconcious instead of firing at someone with a knife who is charging you, as I have actually heard ignorant people suggest.

The fact police officers have in the past killed innocent people in high stress situations making bad decisions is tragic and obviously something we train hard not to do. I have personally drawn my weapon in probably over a hundred instances making high risk felony stops, arresting people who are armed, or had committed violent crimes and likely armed. I've never shot anyone. Of the 1600 sworn on the force, only about 10 have ever shot anyone. There is a lot of restraint shown on a regular basis. I've had situations where I could have legally shot someone and at risk to myself took a calculated risk and did not. I know many others who have done the same

Lets let the facts come to light before we conclude what they should or should not have done in this case 

Agree.  It takes a special person to risk his or her life to be a public servant.  Tough job.  Thanks for your service. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 27, 2011, 09:58:08 PM
I simply ask. Do you feel you have a right to point a gun at someone else more than the average citizen does?

If you think you do. Then I'm sorry. But you are in fact a fascist.

Holmes, lets exit la la land for just a minute and discuss this. Police are citizens and some citizens are police. I actually have MORE rules regarding the use of my weapon than the average citizen. You have state law, I not only have the same state law, but I am also given additional rules with General Orders and Standard Operating Procedures.

Without police you would be in a world of trouble if you thought about it. Your dream of having no police would quickly become a nightmare. Someone has to keep the thugs from destroying the good people. Someone has to stop the drunks from driving their cars into your families SUV, arrests the rapists and killers, keep the freeways from becoming high speed death traps.. the list goes on.

Reasonable people realized that in order to do that job, which isn't so easy, we would need some protections. Some of the rules are if we are in uniform, displaying a badge  and all the trappings that let you know we are police, you can't point a gun at us. We have been screened and the odds are a lot better I am not the drug smuggling home invasion human trafficking suspect...so in that case... sorry, but tie goes to the police..


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 27, 2011, 10:07:57 PM
So you're saying you DO have more of a right to point a gun than I do?

Can you be more specific? If you come home from work tonight, and you are attacked by a man in a jogging suit who knocks you to the ground and starts to pull out a gun while yelling "You stole my money I'm gonna kill you" then you have the exact same right as me to shoot the man.

If I am clearing a warehouse at night due to a burglar alarm and I come around the corner and we see each other at the same time, me in police uniform and you in plain street clothes, my right to point my weapon at you trumps your right to point your weapon at me. Does that make sense to you?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 27, 2011, 10:16:29 PM
I appreciate your specificity but I think its wrong. Maybe I own the warehouse. Maybe you aren't a real cop.

Perhaps I think you are the one who set the alarm off.

The fact that you feel that your badge allows you to point a gun at me is what's fucked up. I certainly wouldn't pull a gun on someone just because they are there.

Did you read the article about the guy in Pennsylvania I posted?

What do you have to say about that?



If the people just go with your word. Then you're saying that your word means more than mine and that all cops words mean more. That's how the police state starts.

I won't be silent. Sorry.

I'm sorry, your statements show you and I are just too far apart to continue any meaningful dialogue


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 28, 2011, 03:18:30 AM
Question for beach and agnostic.   

Do you guys agree with the statement

"it's better for 100 guilty men to go free than for 1 innocent man to be convicted"


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 28, 2011, 04:06:32 AM
This Is Your War on Drugs
Friday, May 27th, 2011
We have another video of a raid by the Columbia Police Department. The action starts at 5:30. There’s more violence. More perfunctory dog killing. (I didn’t hear a single menacing growl, and the dogs were shot while retreating.) There’s more careless tossing of flash grenades. (They threw five, then, bizarrely, two more “to prove that the previous 5 grenades had done no damage.”) This raid, once again, was for marijuana.

I’ve become somewhat inoculated to the outrage in many these stories. I think you probably need to in order to write about this stuff every day. But I was shaking while watching this one. Then I let out a string of profanities. Then I gave my dog a hug.

All of which is why you need to watch it. And help distribute it as far and wide as the Columbia raid video from last year. This isn’t like watching video of a car accident or a natural disaster. This doesn’t have to happen. You’re watching something your government does to your fellow citizens about 150 times per day in this country. If this very literal “drug war” insanity is going to continue to be waged in our name, we ought to make goddamned sure everyone knows exactly what it entails. And this is what it entails. Cops dressed like soldiers breaking into private homes, tossing concussion grenades, training their guns on nonviolent citizens, and slaughtering dogs as a matter of procedure.

More details from the good people at Keep Columbia Free.



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This entry was posted on Friday, May 27th, 2011 at 9:31 pm by Radley Balko and is filed under General Drug War, Police Militarization. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.


http://www.theagitator.com/2011/05/27/this-is-your-war-on-drugs-2/




Video at site.    Ridiculous.   



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 28, 2011, 04:08:53 AM
http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com




Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 28, 2011, 04:35:31 AM
Source: San Francisco Chronicle

A San Francisco judge dismissed 26 more felony cases Friday involving plainclothes police officers who allegedly lied about the circumstances of drug searches and arrests or stole from suspects, bringing the number of prosecutions lost in the widening scandal to nearly 120.

Superior Court Judge Lillian Sing granted the dismissals at prosecutors' request. Outside court, prosecutors said the cases - nearly all of them involving drug charges - had been dropped largely because of potential credibility problems with an undercover officer at the Mission Station, Ricardo Guerrero, whose testimony in a preliminary hearing this year was called into question by videotape evidence that defense attorneys secured.

Prosecutors had already dropped eight cases in which Guerrero was involved since the video surfaced this month.

The video was of an arrest that Guerrero and other undercover officers from the Mission Station made at a Tenderloin residential hotel Dec. 30. It shows Guerrero carrying a gym bag from the suspect's room that he did not account for and was not booked as evidence.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/0...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 28, 2011, 09:01:04 AM
Question for beach and agnostic.   

Do you guys agree with the statement

"it's better for 100 guilty men to go free than for 1 innocent man to be convicted"

I do not.  I think guilty men should be punished and innocent men should not.  It's not an either/or. 

And it really makes no sense.  I would ask the question this way:  is it better for 25 serial child molesters, 25 serial rapists, 25 serial killers, and 25 Bernie Madhoffs to go free than for 1 innocent man to be convicted.  Neither is acceptable. 

Where is the clip you were going to post with the extended interview of the Arizona woman?  I'd like to watch it. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 28, 2011, 09:03:36 AM
Sorry forgot.  I'm on my phone.  Its not a video but a transcript of the interogation she got.  Its like 30 pages long and she claims the cops may have dropped the AR on the body as she had no idea he had an AR at all.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Hugo Chavez on May 28, 2011, 09:06:54 AM
"it's better for 100 guilty men to go free than for 1 innocent man to be convicted"
I'm sure BB actually thinks it's better for 100 innocent men to be convicted because it feels better knowing someone is doing time for the crime regardless if they are actually guilty or not...

THE BIGGER CRIME IS AN INNOCENT BEING CONVICTED.  The true perpetrator is still out there AND an innocent man has lost his life.

If BB thinks that it's ok to trade an innocent life, then maybe he should step up and sacrifice himself.  He'd be talking different if he was the one accused, that's for sure...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 28, 2011, 10:57:55 AM
I'm sure BB actually thinks it's better for 100 innocent men to be convicted because it feels better knowing someone is doing time for the crime regardless if they are actually guilty or not...

THE BIGGER CRIME IS AN INNOCENT BEING CONVICTED.  The true perpetrator is still out there AND an innocent man has lost his life.

If BB thinks that it's ok to trade an innocent life, then maybe he should step up and sacrifice himself.  He'd be talking different if he was the one accused, that's for sure...

 ::)  This is what's known as a "false dichotomy." 

"The fallacy of false dichotomy is committed when the arguer claims that his conclusion is one of only two options, when in fact there are other possibilities. The arguer then goes on to show that the 'only other option' is clearly outrageous, and so his preferred conclusion must be embraced.

Either you let me go to the Family Values Tour, or I'll be miserable for the rest of my life. I know you don't want me to be miserable for the rest of my life, so you should let me go to the concert.

Either you use Speed Stick deodorant, or you will stink to high heaven. You don't want to stink, so you better by Speed Stick.

Either I keep smoking, or I'll get fat. I don't want to get fat, so I better keep smoking.

Either we keep Charles Manson in jail, or we release him, thus risking murder, carnage, and mayhem. We don't want murder, carnage, or mayhem, so we had better keep him in jail."

http://mind.ucsd.edu/syllabi/98-99/logic/falsedichotomy.html


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 28, 2011, 11:21:05 AM
I'm sure BB actually thinks it's better for 100 innocent men to be convicted because it feels better knowing someone is doing time for the crime regardless if they are actually guilty or not...

THE BIGGER CRIME IS AN INNOCENT BEING CONVICTED.  The true perpetrator is still out there AND an innocent man has lost his life.

If BB thinks that it's ok to trade an innocent life, then maybe he should step up and sacrifice himself.  He'd be talking different if he was the one accused, that's for sure...

as sure as you were that you knew what BB would say, you were wrong which was shown my his answer. Does this cause you to doubt other things you were so sure about?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 28, 2011, 11:21:12 AM
BB - the statement is about how the legal system treats the accused.  In theory, there are supposed to be adequate safeguards afforded the accused to where its far easier for guilty to get off than an innocent man convicted. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 28, 2011, 11:22:41 AM
Question for beach and agnostic.   

Do you guys agree with the statement

"it's better for 100 guilty men to go free than for 1 innocent man to be convicted"

No, I don't agree with it. It's better for no innicent man to be convicted and all guilty people be convicted.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 28, 2011, 11:25:35 AM
BB - the statement is about how the legal system treats the accused.  In theory, there are supposed to be adequate safeguards afforded the accused to where its far easier for guilty to get off than an innocent man convicted. 

There should be safeguards.  We have plenty.  It's not a perfect system, and definitely benefits those who have means, but we an outstanding system already in place. 



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on May 28, 2011, 11:25:54 AM
No, I don't agree with it. It's better for no innicent man to be convicted and all guilty people be convicted.

Precisely. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 29, 2011, 05:24:02 PM
The Jose Guerena Raid: A Demonstration of Tactical Incompetence
 captainsjournal.com ^ | 27 May, 2011 | Herschel Smith




Helmet camera footage of the SWAT team raid on the home of Jose Guerena has been released.

Bob Owen noticed the same thing I did. One of the team members fell in the doorway upon breaching and entering the home. The video speaks for itself, but by way of summary, let’s observe the following.

First, Mr. Guerena’s weapon, contrary to initial accounts by the SWAT team, was never taken off of safety. The team took no shots from him. Second, the team mills around for a while before breaching the home. Third, they don’t form into a stack. Fourth, absurdly, they knock and allow only four seconds for a response. Fifth, one of the members falls in the doorway. Sixth, upon shots being fired (by the SWAT team), more than one team member begins backing away from the incident. Seventh, one of the team members who initially backed away moves forward to fire shots over the heads of other team members who are in the home (it’s a wonder that SWAT team members didn’t get shot by their own team). All the while, several team members are standing aimlessly outside the home, doing nothing. Then to top it all off, even though medical responders arrived within minutes, they weren’t allowed into the home for one hour and fourteen minutes.

The Sheriff may as well have sent the Keystone Cops to raid the home. These clowns shouldn’t be allowed anywhere near weapons.

UPDATE: Thanks to Glenn Reynolds for the LINK.

UPDATE #2: So I asked a certain former Marine I know (combat tour of Fallujah in 2007) what he thought about this particular raid. Here are his thoughts. This would be hilarious if a man hadn’t died in the process. Tactically speaking, their raid was foolish, and they are guilty of murder. So this SWAT team wanted to “get some?” Great. Go join the Marine Corps and deploy to a foreign country and fight insurgents. You’re supposed to be peace officers, to prevent things like this from happening. As it was, Mr. Guerena thought his home was being invaded, and so what would you do in this circumstance? Well, you go get a weapon and post up. You send rounds down range to protect your family. Mr. Guerena even had the good discipline not to do that. This whole incident was evil.

UPDATE #3: I’ve had a chance to talk with my son about this some more, and a good summary of what this raid was like is to say that “It looks like the Iraqi Army raiding a house.” I had known that the ISF wasn’t present during much of his time in Fallujah (most of the security forces were Marines and IPs), so I asked him, “Why do you say that? Have you seen the Iraqi Army raiding a house?” He said yes, and I responded by asking him what it looked like? He said “It looks like that. Just like that. People falling all over each other, emptying their weapons, shooting at everything, and shooting at nothing.”



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 29, 2011, 05:56:35 PM
FBI Joy Ride Wrecks Ferrari, DOJ Refuses to Pay Damages
 www.theNewspaper.com ^ | 05/26/2011 | n/a




US government refuses to pay damages for Ferrari F50 destroyed during an FBI joy ride.

 The US Department of Justice is deploying all of its legal muscle to avoid paying the price after an FBI agent destroyed an exotic car during a joy ride. After nearly two years of trying to recover the money owed by the government, Motors Insurance Company filed a lawsuit against the government seeking the full $750,000 value of the wrecked 1995 Ferrari F50.

The vehicle originally had been stolen in 2003 from a Ferrari dealer in Pennsylvania. Motors paid the $630,000 insurance claim, giving the firm title to the missing exotic. On August 12, 2008, the FBI stumbled upon the car in Kentucky during a separate investigation. The agency held the vehicle with permission from Motors. On May 27, 2009, FBI Special Agent Frederick C. Kingston got behind the wheel of a 1995 Ferrari F50 with by Assistant US Attorney J. Hamilton Thompson in the passenger seat.

"Just a few seconds after we left the parking lot, we went around a curve, and the rear of the car began sliding," Thompson wrote in an email to Managing Assistant US Attorney E.J. Walbourn on the day of the incident. "The agent tried to regain control, but the car fishtailed and slid sideways up onto the curb. The vehicle came to rest against a row of bushes and a small tree. Both myself and the agent exited of our own power."



 A claims adjuster noted the frame was bent, rendering the vehicle -- now worth $750,000 in working condition -- a total loss. DOJ began stonewalling when Motors tried to get information about what happened. The agency refused to honor a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request for any documents regarding the storage and use of the vehicle on the day of the accident. The request was denied as "an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy." Motors filed a separate lawsuit to force the disclosure of agency records concerning the Ferrari.

 "Based on the denial of Motors Insurance Company's claim, plaintiff anticipates that DOJ and FBI will claim immunity against civil liability under 28 USC Section 2680(c) and assert that the vehicle was damaged while in the detention of law enforcement authorities," Motors attorney Richard C. Kraus wrote in an April 14 lawsuit. "The information requested under FOIA and withheld by DOJ and FBI will be necessary to determine whether 28 USC Section 2680(c) applies."

 That is precisely what DOJ has done. The agency insists sovereign immunity prohibits the suit, and no negligence claim can arise because federal law prohibits claims against the government for goods damaged while detained by law enforcement.

"The exception applies to bar suit against the United States and does not permit litigation over the reasonableness of the law enforcement officer's conduct in question," Assistant Attorney General Tony West wrote in a May 9 brief to the court. "The broad interpretation of the detention-of-goods exception, coupled with the necessity that the court construe the United States' waiver of sovereign immunity strictly in favor of the sovereign, require a finding that the United States has not consented to this sort of suit and plaintiff has failed to state a claim under federal law. Accordingly, the United States respectfully requests that the above-captioned action be dismissed with prejudice."

US District Judge Avern Cohn on Tuesday set a June 22 date for final briefs on the government's motion to dismiss the suit.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 29, 2011, 06:29:22 PM
Albemarle Road church fined $100 per branch for excessive tree pruning
 


By Brittany Penland
Correspondent
 
Posted: Saturday, May. 28, 2011

 






Eddie Sales looks over some of the trimmed crape myrtles on the grounds of Albemarle Road Presbyterian Church. Diedra Laird - dlaird@charlotteobserver.com
 
Buy Photo | Store

 

Every two to three years, Eddie Sales trims and prunes the crape myrtles at his church, Albemarle Road Presbyterian Church.
 
But this year, the city of Charlotte cited the church for improperly pruning its trees.
 
"We always keep our trees trimmed back because you don't want to worry about them hanging down in the way," said Sales, a church member.
 
The church was fined $100 per branch cut for excessive pruning, bringing the violation to $4,000.
 
"I just couldn't believe it when I heard about it," Sales said. "We trim our trees back every three years all over our property, and this is the first time we have been fined."
 
The fine will be dropped if the church replaces each of the improperly pruned trees, said Tom Johnson, senior urban forester for city of Charlotte Land Development Division.
 
"When they are nonrepairable, when they have been pruned beyond repair, we will ask them to be replaced," Johnson said. "We do that for a number of reasons but mainly because they are going to come back unhealthy and create a dangerous situation down the road."
 
Charlotte has had a tree ordinance since 1978, and when trees are incorrectly pruned or topped, people can be subject to fines, Johnson said.
 
Trees planted as a result of the ordinance are subject to the fines if they are excessively trimmed or pruned. These include trees on commercial property or street trees. They do not include a private residence.
 
"The purpose of the tree ordinance is to protect trees," Johnson said. "Charlotte has always been known as the city of trees. When we take down trees, we need to replace these trees."
 
Individuals who would like to trim their trees should call the city foresters to receive a free permit to conduct the landscape work.
 
Foresters will then meet with the person receiving the permit and give instructions on how to properly trim their trees, Johnson said.
 
The state Division of Forestry recommends that anyone trimming trees should be certified by the National Horticulture Board, but certification is not required to receive a permit.
 
On private property, fine amounts are based on the size of the tree improperly pruned. For small trees such as cherry trees or crape myrtles, the fine is $75 per tree. Excessive cutting can increase that fine to $100 per branch.
 
For large trees such as oaks or maples, the fine is $150 per tree.
 
Because there is a widespread lack of understanding on how to prune crape myrtles in the Charlotte area, Johnson said, residents found in violation regarding these trees are asked to simply replace them, and the fine will be lifted.
 
Sales said trees found in violation at the church must be cut down and replaced with new trees by October, but the church plans to appeal. Sales doesn't know how much it would cost to replace the trees.
 
"We trimmed back these trees in the interest of the church," Sales said. "If we were in violation, we certainly did not know we were."
 
Typically during the course of a year, Johnson said, about six private residents are found in violation of improper topping or pruning.
 
"We are trying to be pro-active and not trying to fine people excessively," Johnson said.

Brittany Penland is a freelance writer for the Observer's University City News. Have a story idea for Brittany? Email her at penland.brittany@gmail.com.
 
Subscribe to The Charlotte Observer.


Read more: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/05/28/2333197/church-fined-for-improper-tree.html#ixzz1NnasBxHu



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Bindare_Dundat on May 30, 2011, 05:44:49 AM

The following statistics only count state, city, and county law enforcement agencies. The statistical rates are based on the NPMSRP statistics and employment data provided by the 2008 US DOJ/FBI UCR.

The first map in this series displays the Police Misconduct Rate (PMR), which is the number of law enforcement officers per 100,000 law enforcement officers per state associated with reports of police misconduct within the time period:



(http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/2010-Q2-PMR-Map.png)


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Bindare_Dundat on May 30, 2011, 05:51:43 AM
By projecting this month’s NPMSRP* totals out to one year, the following comparisons can be made between the reported police misconduct allegation rate and the reported 2008 general crime rate* as published by the FBI and DOJ for 2008

(http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/UCR-v-NPMSRP.png)


*National Police Misconduct Statistics and Reporting Project

Basically what these statistics show is that your chances of being sexually assaulted increse with contact by the police, as well as having excessive fatal force used against you. The other numbers are close to even across the board, when compared to the general crime rate.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 30, 2011, 05:58:57 AM
My of the yahoos I know get very little training after the academy and suffer from high doses of "group think" since the ones I know usually only spend time with each other before and after work and have adopted an "us vs them" mmentality. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 30, 2011, 06:21:01 AM
My of the yahoos I know get very little training after the academy and suffer from high doses of "group think" since the ones I know usually only spend time with each other before and after work and have adopted an "us vs them" mmentality. 

We have a 7 month long academy. After that, you ride with a field training officer, actually several, for 3 months. You are then on probation for 18 months at which time you can be fired at will.

I have never been to New York but have fellow cop friends who are from there or visit there. I get the impression they are quite a large family and do spend a lot of time together.

We used to be like that but I've noticed over the last 15 yrs things have changed considerably. We used to have "choir practice" on a regular basis. Meeting after your last shift and having a beer or two and talking over the weeks calls or fishing or whatever. Those have become extinct. Cops these days don't really hang out after work. We have seperate lives and friends. I "work for the city" as far as most people know and have 1 or 2 cop friends I will socialize with on occassion. The young cops are more family oriented and most are on health kicks it seems, rarely drinking and god forbid you offer them a donut. I think it's a good thing that cops are starting to leave the job at the job. This will lead to longer and healthier lives after retirement.

I hear you about the us vs them mentality. I've seen it but never understood it. I've qouted Robert Peel before,  a guy who is considered the father of modern day law enforcement who said "The police are the public and the public are the police" and I like that qoute. That mentality too is falling to the wayside. At least here it is. There are a few hold outs but as standards continue to increase for these positions, I think we are getting a better pool of applicants, who grew up in a different time, and it reflects in the attitudes.       


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 30, 2011, 09:08:46 AM
I don't know why you think it's not like that today.

Cops hang out with cops... That's just the way it is...

 All my cop "friends" are gone now that I don't deal with that line of work... It didn't take long either... I have a buddy who dated a cop for a bit... She told us on a double date once that almost all of her friends were cops and if it weren't for our group, she wouldn't have any non-cop friends.



I don't think it's like that today because I am a cop and make observations. My observation is that it's not like that today. If you have a different opinion thats cool.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 31, 2011, 10:20:32 AM
Your observations seem very flawed.

How many of the guys you hang out with aren't involved in law enforcement in some way? That can even be rhetorical... You can just ask yourself honestly how many you really hang with that aren't.



I have two that I hang out with on any regular basis. The remainder of my friends are not involved in the business. I am hurt that someone who thinks cops should have no additional authority than any citizen thinks my observations are flawed.. ::)


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 01, 2011, 03:44:37 AM
AlterNet / By Rania Khalek
America's Creeping Police State


Imperialism abroad is destroying what is left of our democracy at home. From warrantless wiretapping to warrantless door-busting, this is what a police state looks like.

May 31, 2011 |


The late Chalmers Johnson often reminded us that “A nation can be one or the other, a democracy or an imperialist, but it can’t be both. If it sticks to imperialism, it will, like the old Roman Republic, on which so much of our system was modeled, lose its democracy to a domestic dictatorship.” His warning rings more true by the day, as Americans watch the erosion of their civil liberties accelerate in conjunction with the expansion of the US Empire.

When viewed through the lens of Johnson’s profound insights, the Supreme Court’s recent ruling in Kentucky v. King makes perfect sense. On May 13, in a lopsided 8-1 ruling, the Court upheld the warrantless search of a Kentucky man’s apartment after police smelled marijuana and feared those inside were destroying evidence, essentially granting police officers increased power to enter the homes of citizens without a warrant.

Under the Fourth Amendment, police are barred from entering a home without first obtaining a warrant, which can only be issued by a judge upon probable cause. The only exception is when the circumstances qualify as “exigent,” meaning there is imminent risk of death or serious injury, danger that evidence will be immediately destroyed, or that a suspect will escape. However, exigent circumstances cannot be created by the police.

In this case, the police followed a suspected drug dealer into an apartment complex and after losing track of him, smelled marijuana coming from one of the apartments. After banging on the door and announcing themselves, the police heard noises that they interpreted as the destruction of evidence. Rather than first obtaining a warrant, they kicked down the door and arrested the man inside, who was caught flushing marijuana down the toilet. ..............(more)

The complete piece is at: http://www.alternet.org/rights/151150/america%27s_creep... /


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 01, 2011, 09:11:25 AM
The Guerena Shooting: Initial Analysis
The Confederate Yankee ^ | 28 May, 2011 | MikeM





The Guerena Shooting: Initial Analysis

As regular readers know, I’m a USAF veteran (I was a security police officer in SAC during the cold war) and have extensive civilian police service, including SWAT duty. I have been writing on the Erik Scott case In Las Vegas since August of 2010. Those extensive posts are available in our Erik Scott archive.

The Jose Guerena shooting, which took place on May 5, is similar in many ways. My co-blogger, Bob’s May 25 story on the Pajamas Media site (here) has stimulated considerable interest in the story on the Net. What I’ve yet to see is concise information that would allow people who don’t have police and/or tactical team backgrounds to better understand what appears to have happened in this case. To that end, I’ll explain why SWAT teams exist, what purpose(s) they should serve, how they should work, and proper police procedure in any case where the police have shot a citizen.

I’ll also analyze the brief—less then 60 seconds—police video of the actual shooting (it may be found here). Please keep in mind that I am working only from media and Internet accounts, including the aforementioned video and other documents released by the Pima County Sheriff’s Office, the law enforcement entity involved. As such, I don’t have all of the facts, and as Donald Rumsfeld might say, there are unknown unknowns. In other words, I don’t know enough about this specific incident to know precisely what I don’t know.

That said, I hope to produce at least a reasonable foundation for understanding what seems to have happened on May 5. Go here and here for local media accounts of the incident.

UPDATE 052911, 1329 CT: Go here for an updated news story reporting the Guerena, according to the medical examiner, was actually hit 22 times, not 60 as was originally reported by the doctors who examined him. See the "Analysis" section below for additional commentary.

SWAT TEAMS: RATIONALE AND REALITY

Special Weapons and Tactics (SWAT) teams have, over the last thirty years, become relatively common in American law enforcement. Their primary reason for being is to provide a highly trained, enhanced capability beyond the training and equipment available to patrol officers. Patrol officers are most commonly armed only with their handguns and perhaps .12 gauge shotguns in their patrol vehicles, though some police agencies have begun to also equip them with carbines, such as variants of the AR-15 family. This is rational in that the effective range of shotguns with reasonable accuracy is essentially the same as handguns. Many people think shotguns are extraordinarily powerful, long range weapons, but in fact, their enhanced effectiveness—compared with handgun ammunition—depends entirely on keeping the shot column together, which again, limits them to essentially the same practical range as handguns. Patrol officers commonly wear bullet-resistant vests (there is no such thing as a bullet-proof vest) sufficient only to stop common handgun rounds. Tactical vests such as those worn by SWAT operators are simply too large, bulky and heavy for daily patrol wear.

The classic scenario for a SWAT callout is a barricaded hostage taker, a situation that commonly ends with a negotiator talking the suspect or suspects out without bloodshed, or more rarely, with a single shot from a sniper’s rifle. More rare still is an assault by SWAT operators. This is rare because no matter how much SWAT types love to do this sort of thing, it is horrendously dangerous to everyone involved. SWAT teams are also commonly employed for the service of no-knock warrants, where absolute surprise, speed, and overwhelming action are a necessity to minimize danger and prevent the destruction of evidence.

SWAT teams are very expensive to equip, train and to maintain. Generally speaking, only major cities have dedicated SWAT teams whose focus is constant training. Such officers generally have no other primary duties and work together on a daily basis learning and honing their craft.

It’s particularly important to understand that one of the fundamental principles of professional SWAT philosophy and training is that each operator be superior to his police peers in physical prowess, mental and emotional stability, quick thinking skills, situational awareness, shooting skills, and every other skill specific to SWAT operations. What this essentially means is that SWAT operators are expected to be faster, smarter and more capable than the average cop. Where most officers would shoot, and shoot a great many rounds, they are expected to be able to take the extra few seconds—or fractions of a second—necessary to more fully and accurately analyze any situation before shooting. And when they shoot, they are expected to do it with far greater restraint and accuracy than most officers.

Note the Navy SEAL who took out Osama Bin Laden with two rounds and two rounds only, one to the chest, one to the head. This is a classic example of cool, perfect shot placement under stress, and is precisely the sort of thing SWAT troops are supposed to be able to do. After all, if they are no better at this sort of thing than the average street cop, all that has been done is to give average street cops more destructive, longer ranged weapons.

In recognition of the generally greater danger SWAT personnel face when properly employed, most teams are armed with fully automatic weapons, such as the ubiquitous H&K MP5 in 9mm. Many also use AR-15 variant carbines in .223 with 16” or shorter barrels. So arming SWAT teams is reasonable and necessary—again, if they are properly employed—but it is also a contributing factor to many potential problems.

Many people assume that the police are generally expert shots. Not so. Many officers aren’t particularly fond of guns, and a surprising number own no firearms other than their issued handgun. Because ammunition is expensive, particularly when one is equipping an entire police force, most Law Enforcement Organizations (LEOs) tend to hold qualifications only once a year. The courses of fire for such qualifications tend to be relatively easy, require less than 50 rounds, and qualifying scores are generous. Officers are often allowed to shoot as many times as necessary to achieve a barely passing score. Most LEOs do not provide practice ammunition for their officers, so a great many officers only practice with their handguns consists of their annual qualification shoot. They may, or may not, clean their weapons thereafter. A great many civilians are far more proficient than most police officers simply because they are more interested in firearms and shooting, and are willing to take the time to practice.

During my police days, my most effective training was that I undertook on my own time and money, taking courses such as those offered by Chuck Taylor, among others, where I learned proper submachine gun handling and tactical employment. I am, in fact, certified by Taylor’s American Small Arms Academy to teach, among other things, the submachine gun. I also hold NRA training certification. No such training was available though my LEO which simply could not afford it, particularly for an entire SWAT team.

It is at least in part in recognition of this reality that SWAT teams try to obtain advanced training, and sufficient time and money to practice—a great deal--with their weapons. Exposed only to cinematic machine gun handling, many people have formed a very wrong idea of the proper employment of submachine guns, which consists primarily of spraying magazines of ammunition with a seemingly endless number of rounds from the hip, ventilating the landscape as far as the eye can see. In reality, such weapons should virtually always be employed only from the shoulder, sights must be used, and only two to three round bursts employed. With proper training, this is much faster and far more accurate. In SWAT missions, putting the minimum number of rounds necessary precisely on target at precisely the right moment with no margin for error is the expected level of performance. In fact, many real pros consider any mission where they had to fire a single round a failure. They understand that this will certainly not always be possible, but it is their goal.

Most LEOs cannot afford a full-time, dedicated SWAT team. There is simply not sufficient call for it, and it is far too expensive. They deal with this by appointing various officers from various bureaus to a team, equipping them as they can afford, and indulging in what training they can afford. This is a significant limitation because when the team trains, all of those officers are not doing their usual duties, which often requires calling in off-duty officers to work overtime shifts to cover for missing SWAT troops. Many agencies try to minimize this significant problem by forming joint teams comprised of officers from two or more local agencies. While this helps somewhat with costs, it produces unique problems in terms of arguments over authority, leadership, cost sharing, and a variety of other issues.

The paramilitary structure of LEOs can also interfere with proper staffing of a SWAT team. Ideally, because of the very nature of such teams and the situations for which they should be employed, the most qualified people, regardless of their daily rank or position, should be placed in each and every team position, from leadership positions, to snipers. Unfortunately, rank has its privileges, and people with rank are often placed in leadership positions commensurate with their rank in their LEO while far more capable people are passed over entirely or relegated to entry or perimeter team duties. I know of one team that appointed as its primary sniper—they’re most commonly called “marksmen” or something similarly non-threatening sounding—a detective who had never before fired a rifle, and whose entry level skill was far less than that of many available officers. It is this odd internal dynamic that might see a former special forces troop expert in small unit tactics, relegated to the most distant position on a perimeter or doing coffee and sandwich runs for the command post. Less competent and experienced "leaders" tend not to want far more experienced and capable underlings too close lest they look bad by comparison.

Beyond the enormous expense of time and salary for training a team is the cost of equipment. To equip a single operator with body armor, handgun, submachine gun, helmet, eyewear, radio and proper headset, Nomex protective gear, uniform, boots, and the various other necessary items can easily run to $5000.00 and more. In LEOS where shift supervisors are constantly being brow-beaten over an extra hour or two of necessary and justifiable overtime—virtually every LEO in America--such costs might as well be $500,000.00.

SWAT teams should generally be used only for high-risk situations requiring specific skills and equipment not available to a patrol force. However, many agencies have, for many years, used them for serving high-risk warrants, including arrest warrants for violent felons, and general search warrants in drug cases. While SWAT guys love to don their gear and practice their craft in the real world, this tends to develop a mindset within an agency that makes use of SWAT teams routine rather than rare. This can lead to complacency, which any competent cop can explain is potentially deadly. Particularly in drug cases, there is a heightened risk of bad information, which can lead to teams assaulting the wrong homes and even killing the wrong people. Police lore is full of such true stories, which are taught as cautionary tales in competent SWAT training.

Remember this: Your local SWAT team responding to a hostage situation in a bank where your wife works as a teller may be a highly trained, unified, competent group of operators expert in the use of their first-rate equipment and professional tactics. More likely, they’re a group of well-meaning, undertrained and underequipped cops with uninformed and inexperienced leadership. Their knowledge and skill levels will likely vary widely, and in fact, some may be less capable than many street cops. Any combination is possible, but the operator coming through the bank door with an MP5 may be expert in its use, or he may have only fired 50 rounds through the weapon a year ago at the last qualification, and have no real idea where its actual point of aim is today.

ORGANIZATION AND TACTICS:

I will not go into great detail here on specific SWAT tactics, as most importantly, the bad guys just don’t need to know. But secondarily, such information is available to those with a need to know, and in far greater detail that it is possible for me to provide in this single article.

Generally, SWAT teams are divided into command, assault, sniper and perimeter elements. The command element commonly includes the leader(s) of the team who will be responsible for making tactical plans and giving tactical orders. The sniper element will normally consist of a sniper and spotter, hopefully trained to function as two bodies sharing the same mind. Many teams can afford only one such team (a competent rifle can easily cost $3000.00 alone). If one of the members of the team is sick or unreachable when a call-out occurs, someone less trained and experienced will have to fill in—or not. The perimeter team’s job is to establish a safe perimeter around the target building or area and keep unwanted people out and the bad guys in.

It is the entry team that is of greatest interest to us here. Such elements commonly consist of an operator leading with a heavy, bullet-resistant shield or “bunker” as it is sometimes called. One or two operators are designated to break open doors using specialized tools. As soon as a door is opened, a “stack” immediately enters. A “stack” commonly consists of several men—usually three or four in addition to the man with the shield—following single file on each other’s heels through the doorway. In such stacks, operators commonly place one hand on the shoulder of the man in front of them, allowing them to stay together and to communicate readiness with a simple squeeze passed up the stack as they begin.

All police officers are taught to avoid the “fatal funnel,” or placing them selves in a narrow, tight area where it is easy for bad guys to shoot them. Being silhouetted in a doorframe is a classic example, as is being stacked up in a narrow hallway. If one can’t avoid such areas, it is imperative to minimize the time spent in them.

Each member of the “stack” has a specific area of responsibility, a portion of the space(s) they will enter they are responsible for checking out visually. Only they are authorized to engage—shoot—potential threats in their area of responsibility. This is essential because there can easily be more than one threat in more than one place. If an entire stack focuses or fires on the first perceived threat, the entire team may be wiped out by an unseen shooter. In addition, shooting in enclosed spaces is extraordinarily loud. Officers must be careful not to inadvertently deafen each other, or blind each other with the muzzle flash of a weapon fired too close to the eyes of a fellow officer. This kind of discipline requires constant training and conditioning and cool thinking under fire.

A significant part of training for entry teams and SWAT teams in general involves “deconfliction,” or muzzle awareness. Any police officer can attest to the fact that it is surprisingly easy to unintentionally point weapons at other people. In high stress situations where many people simultaneously occupy the same small place, particularly when sound and rapid movement in an unfamiliar area are also present, it is ridiculously easy to make deadly mistakes. By assigning very specific areas of responsibility, areas from which an operator’s muzzle should not stray, the possibility of accidently shooting another operator, rather than a bad guy, is minimized. It is minimized, but always a real danger, and such shootings are far more common than the police are comfortable admitting. Officers are also taught to keep their trigger fingers “in register,” or outside the trigger guard of their weapons, off the trigger, in direct contact with the frame or receiver of their weapons, until milliseconds before it is necessary to fire. This too minimizes the risk of accidental or unintentional discharges (ADs).

Generally, the stack’s duties consist of “clearing” every potential danger area in a structure. They do this by going room to room, never turning their backs—so to speak—on un-cleared rooms or areas, securing—by whatever means necessary—any hostiles. Only when the entire structure has been cleared, do other officers enter and conduct a search. Even so, no one relaxes prematurely. Properly done, a normally sized, three bedroom home may be properly cleared within a few minutes.

In some particularly dangerous cases, the stack will be preceded by one or more “flashbangs.” These are specialized hand grenades, which do not produce fragmentation, but a brilliant flash of light and very loud report, both effects being magnified by close quarters. The advantage of these devices is that they can render bad guys senseless long enough for the police to subdue them with little risk to themselves. The disadvantages are that if they detonate too close to a bad guy, they can seriously injure or kill them, and they can start fires.

Once a dynamic entry has begun, it must not hesitate. The stack must enter with speed and determination to surprise and overwhelm any resistance. Particularly in serving drug search warrants, one immediate goal is to prevent the destruction of evidence, which might be easily flushed down a toilet, for example. To that end, retreat or hesitation is not an option.

If anyone is injured, SWAT operators, as police officers, have the same duty to see that they receive aid as quickly as safety will allow.

THE LAW: SEARCH AND SEIZURE AND SHOOTING

Every aspect of search and seizure is governed by the Fourth Amendment, which states:

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 01, 2011, 09:12:10 AM
Despite the claims of some of the self-appointed “elite” that the language of the late 1700s cannot be read or understood by the modern liberal mind, this, like the rest of the Bill of Rights, is quite clear. If the police want to search someone’s home, they need a warrant. To get a warrant, they must have probable cause, which is defined as facts or circumstances that would lead a reasonable police officer to conclude that a crime has been committed and that a specific person has committed it. A vague, general suspicion or inference is not probable cause. Saying for instance that Joe is a drug dealer and that Steve has been seen in Joe’s company does not implicate Steve in the drug trade absent specific evidence of his involvement.

To obtain a warrant, an officer must write a complete affidavit, which, as the Fourth Amendment so clearly states, describes his probable cause, and which particularly describes the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. “Particularly” is an important word. Not only is it necessary to, for example, provide the address of a home to be searched, the home itself should be carefully described. If, for example, the SWAT team shows up at 1506 Walnut Street to search a two story red brick home with a detached single car garage and finds instead a single story ranch, painted tan with brown trim and no garage, they know something is very wrong. This is not uncommon, particularly with drug cases. Insufficient probable cause or vague descriptions will usually cause a judge, who must review each affidavit and approve each warrant, to refuse to issue a warrant.

There are exceptions to the warrant requirement, such as hot pursuit or exigent circumstances. In this case, the police apparently had a warrant. In servicing warrants, officers must commonly knock, clearly identify themselves and their purpose, and allow sufficient time for the occupants to respond. No-knock warrants may be granted, but only upon a convincing showing of specific danger and need.

Keep in mind that if anyone lies to obtain a warrant, everything that occurs as a result of the service of the faulty warrant may be tainted and many not be used in court. However, generally speaking, officers who are acting on good faith, who have no reason to believe that the warrant under which they are acting is faulty, are generally not legally liable. This, of course, does not excuse criminal behavior, negligence or incompetence.

The use of confidential informants in drug cases is always problematic. Such people are virtually always criminals and drug users and are inherently unreliable. Even so, they are often the only way to successfully penetrate drug operations. Professional, capable judges are always suspicious of such people and commonly require a higher standard of proof than just the word of a CI.

Search warrants must generally be served during the daytime, and within a specific, brief window of time, usually within 24 hours of their issuance. A judge may grant exceptions, but they must be spelled out in the warrant. After the warrant has been served, officers are required to promptly file a “return,” which is an after action report that specifically describes everything found and seized as a result of the warrant. Lying on any portion of the related paperwork is perjury, a serious criminal offense, usually a felony.

Prior to searching any home, particularly if a forced entry is likely, professional teams will have conducted sufficient surveillance, and will have produced detailed diagrams of the interior of the home, which will include likely locations of any firearms or defensive preparations, and hiding/storage places of any drugs. They will want to know how many people are usually in the home, their identities and everything about them. Even if the police cannot get inside a home, a great deal may be learned from merely observing the home and the manner in which it is constructed. Remember that professional teams try to avoid forced or “dynamic” entries because of the great danger involved. Professionals seek, prior to searching, to isolate and capture the primary suspect outside the home whenever possible. This is why careful surveillance and accurate information is so important; it can greatly lessen the risk to everyone involved.

WHEN THE POLICE MAY SHOOT:

Police officers may use deadly force when there is an imminent threat of serious bodily injury or death to them selves or another. It cannot be a possible threat that might manifest itself within the next few minutes. It must be obvious, real and about to happen at the instant that deadly force was used. If these conditions exist, an officer may use whatever force is necessary to stop the bad guy from doing whatever gave the officer justification to use deadly force in the first place. If the bad guy dies as a result of the application of that force, bad for him, but the police always shoot to stop, never to kill. If they shoot effectively—and SWAT teams are supposed to always shoot effectively and with the minimum expenditure of ammunition—the bad guy will usually be killed, but he will surely be stopped.

If a single 9mm round from an officer’s handgun stops the bad guy, that’s a good thing. If five rounds from a shotgun are reasonably required, that’s perfectly permissible under the law. However, the second a bad guy ceases to be a threat, all shooting must stop. The law--to say nothing of professionalism, common sense and decency--does not allow gratuitous magazine emptying or “me too” shooting when the danger has clearly passed.

In such circumstances, some will claim that when confronted by someone holding a gun, or even when the police suspect someone is armed—as in the Erik Scott case—the police may blithely fire away. This is dangerous nonsense. Remember that SWAT operators should be better trained and more experienced than their patrol brethren. They are expected to be able to wait those few fractions of a second longer before shooting necessary to be certain that shooting is absolutely required. In a nation with a Second Amendment, and where citizens may carry concealed handguns in most states, police officers simply cannot shoot anyone seen holding a weapon. In fact, officers deal with people who are openly carrying weapons, or who are carrying concealed weapons, every day without injuring anyone. Was this not true, our streets would be littered with the bodies of law-abiding people shot by panicky cops who had no legal reason to be certain of a threat before emptying their weapons.

Remember, again, that a SWAT team making a dynamic entry understands that citizens within might very well mistake them for home invaders and might meet them with firearms in their hands. Merely holding a firearm, or even pointing it in their general direction, does not automatically constitute an imminent threat of serious bodily injury or death, particularly for officers wearing highly effective body armor behind a bullet resistant shield. Remember too that SWAT operators are supposed to be more capable of correctly making just this kind of split second judgment.

Professional teams are extensively debriefed after each mission. Each and every discrepancy is minutely analyzed and discussed. An officer firing when he might have avoided it, or firing more than reasonably required, is in trouble. An officer crossing the bodies of his teammates with the muzzle of his weapon because he was distracted and didn’t cover his area of responsibility is likewise in trouble. SWAT teams work for perfection, but understand that human beings seldom reach it.

THE GUERENA RAID:

With all of these factors in mind, let’s analyze the 54 second video clip released by the Pima County SO. The video seems to have been shot from a helmet-mounted camera worn by an officer in the back seat of a vehicle parked in the driveway of the Guerena home. The vehicle is apparently parked behind another vehicle, which is directly in front of the garage. Throughout the video, music, apparently from the radio in the police vehicle, can be heard. As the officers are preparing to enter, I can hear them speaking, but for whatever reason, most of what they say is unintelligible. No doubt, others using other equipment might be able to more clearly hear what is being said.

Before I begin a second by second breakdown of the action, some general observations. Not counting the two officers who are apparently in the vehicle—one in the driver’s seat clearly in the view of the camera as the video begins and the officer recording the incident—there are as many as seven officers clustered around the door and front yard of the home. And I do mean clustered, as in having no apparently coherent organization. In fact, throughout the tape, they appear to be more or less constantly shifting their positions, apparently aimlessly.

The viewpoint of the camera is apparently through the left side, back window of the police vehicle and is slightly to the right of the plane of the front door of the home. Immediately to the front of the police vehicle is a garage, to the left of that, the front door, and to the left of that, what appears to be a living room picture window. It is bright daylight. The camera appears to be approximately 25 feet from the front door of the home.

The officers making a sort of entry can generally be seen only from the back and the camera is somewhat shaky throughout the clip. Brief glimpses of the faces of a few of the officers are possible, but it is very difficult, perhaps impossible to identify them. Keep in mind that the time frames are based on the time stamp running with the video, so I may be off by fractions of a second here and there.

THE VIDEO:

Seconds 0-8: The clip begins with the camera focusing on an officer in tactical gear and helmet in the front seat of a police vehicle. The field of view shifts around, finally settling, shakily, on a consistent view of the front of the home and of the approximately seven officers in tactical uniforms and gear in the front yard, driveway and near the front door. An officer with a bullet-resistant shield is consistently standing, more or less, in front of the door.

5: The police vehicle siren begins.

7: It stops for about a half second and begins again.

14: The siren ceases. The siren sounds very much like a car alarm, and is not very loud, even within the vehicle that is apparently broadcasting the sound. It has sounded, with a brief interruption, for only about nine seconds.

15: An officer can be heard saying “do it.”

17: An officer says “bang, bang, bang,” apparently over the radio. It’s not clear what he means or why he is saying this.

26: An officer holding a large, purpose-built pry bar, approaches the door and knocks lightly several times. He immediately retreats backward toward the garage.

33: An officer advances and apparently kicks the door open (officers standing in the way obscure the action, but the pry bar is apparently not used). That officer withdraws to the area of the garage. Officers immediately start moving around, but in no organized fashion. There is no stack, and no one seems to have any idea what to do. There is no organized attempt at a dynamic entry.

38: At this point, it appears that another officer actually enters the home to the right of the officer holding the shield. It is difficult to be sure, because various officers shift directly in and out of the view of the camera, which does not change. The shield-holding officer stands in the doorway, but does not enter. Another officer is standing to the left of the officer with the shield. He too does not enter, but only points his weapon into the home through the doorway. Again, officers are apparently speaking, but I cannot make out what they are saying.



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 01, 2011, 09:12:45 AM
40: Shots start, and are apparently a combination of semi-automatic and automatic fire. No muzzle flashes are visible and it is impossible to tell exactly who is firing. In addition, their specific weapons are not visible. Two officers immediately retreat out of the frame of the camera, to the right, in front of the garage. This leaves the officer who is apparently inside the house, the officer holding the shield who is blocking the doorway and the officer leaning over his left shoulder, at the left side of the doorway, leaning in, apparently firing. It appears that the officer with the shield is armed only with a handgun (normal procedure when carrying a shield) while the others are armed with long guns of various types. I can make out the distinct reports of at least three weapons.

Almost immediately, an officer in the background, who was closer to the camera, has slung his long gun behind his back. He draws his handgun, and runs to the front door.

44: Positioning himself between the officer holding the shield and the officer on the left, he sticks his handgun between them, apparently one-handed, and begins to fire. By this time, the officer holding the shield can be clearly seen to be on his back on the ground in the doorway. His shield is now oriented so that it is between him and the camera.

48: The shooting stops. The officers seem disoriented, not knowing what to do. There are no apparent attempts to reload. Only the three who remained outside are visible. The officer who apparently entered, ahead of the shield man, is not visible.

50: One final round is fired. It’s not possible to tell who fires it or why. The camera quickly shifts downward, away from the scene of the shooting, and the video stops at 54 seconds.

OBSERVATIONS:

(1) There appears to be no organization at all. The officers are not organized into an entry stack, they are not apparently taking pre-determined positions, and they mill about, apparently not knowing what should happen next.

(2) They are apparently announcing themselves, but their words are muted. It would be entirely possible for people in the home to be unable to hear what they are saying.

(3) The activation of the siren appears to be uncoordinated with the action at the door. I cannot hear any radio traffic asking for such activation, and there are no visual signals requesting it. If the residents heard it at all, it could be easily mistaken for a car alarm.

(4) Music, apparently playing in the police vehicle, is a very disturbing sign. It indicates a lack of training and concentration that would be potentially deadly in any SWAT operation. This is an amazing bit of foolishness. It is hard enough to clearly hear radio traffic and voices in fast moving, stressful situations. Adding extraneous music is incredibly stupid and dangerous.

(5) Whoever knocks does so very quietly and makes only 4-5 knocks. It’s not possible to tell whether the home has a doorbell, but from the knock to the kick that opens the door only about seven seconds elapse, not nearly enough time for any resident to answer the knock even if they did hear it.

The evidence currently suggests that Vanessa Guerena, Jose’s wife, spotted armed men roaming about the yard. Telling Jose, he directed her to hide in a closet with their four year old child, and taking up an AR-15, crouched in a hallway to intercept what he likely thought were armed home invaders. The exact time frame of these actions is currently unknown.

That the officers take the time to knock and sound a siren indicates that they did not consider time to be of the essence. They were apparently not concerned that the residents of the home would be armed and waiting for them, or that they might be trying to dispose of evidence. Had this been the case, they would have obtained a no-knock warrant and entered without warning, maximizing shock and surprise and minimizing the danger. As it is, their actions indicate a poor state of planning and readiness, haphazardly combining elements of a low-risk warrant service-albeit with a fully armed SWAT team, which makes no sense—and a high-risk, no-knock entry, for which a SWAT team makes sense.

(6) When the door is kicked open, the officer who apparently opened the door has to hastily retreat through several other officers, indicating very poor planning. In proper dynamic entries, the breaching officer or officers are positioned so that they can immediately swing out of the way without obstructing others, allowing the stack to immediately enter. Here, no one moves toward the door in a coordinated manner.

(7) After the door swings open, it takes about five seconds for an officer to apparently enter the door on the right, the shield man to stand in the doorway, blocking it, and the officer on the left of the door to lean in and point his weapon into the home.

(8) An important consideration here is that the officers were standing in bright sunlight. Upon entering, or looking into the home, unless they took appropriate steps to compensate, their vision would be compromised. Anyone who has been outside in bright sunlight and stepped into a building without lights on understands what I’m talking about. It is likely that when they saw Guerena, and the specifics of that encounter are far from clear, they saw only a dark and/or indistinct outline. It is impossible to see if the officers are wearing goggles or dark glasses, which would allow them to see clearly in a darkened dwelling upon entry, but there is no apparent sign of them adjusting such eyewear off their eyes as they stand in the doorway. It is entirely possible that those who fired had no real idea why they were firing because they could not clearly see the “threat” that was drawing their fire.

(9) The shooting begins with 4-5 evenly spaced shots, apparently on semi-automatic. Those shots are quickly joined by a wild melee of fire which lasts about eight seconds, followed by a two second silence and one final shot. According to media accounts, the SWAT team “leader” said that the officers involved exhausted their ammunition. That’s not at all hard to believe, and it is possible that more than 71 rounds were fired.

What is absolutely clear is that the firing was not professionally done. Professional operators fire in two-three rounds bursts, take the milliseconds necessary to asses whether their fire has had the desired effect, and fire again, in a carefully controlled, highly accurate manner, only if necessary. What I heard on the video was panicky fire. Two officers heard the first firing, and they simply opened up and held their triggers down, or kept pulling the trigger, until their bolts locked back, their magazines having been emptied. No doubt their trigger fingers were still jerking even then.

Considering the nature and volume of fire, it is amazing that Guerena was hit some 60 times. It is also amazing that the entire neighborhood was not ventilated. Apparently at least one round did strike a neighboring home—which indicates that the police recognized the reckless manner of their fusillade sufficiently to check out the surrounding area—which caused to police to break into that home to ensure they hadn’t killed anyone. Apparently, they were lucky and did not. It is equally amazing that they did not shoot each other.

UPDATE 052911, 1329 CT: According to a more recent local news story, the medical examiner has reported that Guerena was hit not 60 times as originally suggested by doctors, but only 22 times. This is far more in line with common results of police shootings where most rounds fired do not hit their intended targets. This is also far more in line with what would be expected of the wild and uncontrolled fire of the SWAT shooters in this particular incident, particularly those firing on full-auto. Highly skilled operators can control fully automatic fire in a submachine gun or light carbine such as the AR-15, untrained operators cannot. In any case, carefully controlled and aimed short bursts are always preferred. Police officers are directly responsible for each and every bullet they fire. In this case, nearly 70% of the rounds fired by the police missed. This might make more likely my contention that the officer's vision was compromised and that at least some of them had no real idea of their target or why they were shooting at it, other than the knowledge that one of their number was initially shooting at something. As shocking as all of this might be, the hit rate is about average for police shootings. SWAT teams should do much better. Knowing this, it is even more incredible that the officers did not shoot Mrs. Guerena, her child, themselves, or anyone else in the neighborhood.

(10) That the shield man never actually entered the home, but merely stood in the doorway, perfectly silhouetted, in the very center of a textbook fatal funnel speaks very poorly of the team’s training and experience. It’s not clear how he ended up on his back in that doorway. Did he trip and fall? Perhaps he was knocked off his feet by his teammates, eager to get in on the action. It is also possible that the fourth officer who hastily ran up to the door and thrust his handgun between two of his fellow officers may have fired it so closely to the head and face of the shield man that he was momentarily stunned--or injured--and knocked off his feet. Other officers block the view of the camera, so it is not, from the video alone, possible to know what happened.

(11) Perhaps the most egregious and telling indicator of little or no training, planning, experience and ability is the officer who runs to the doorway, thrusts his handgun between two fellow officers, likely shooting very close to their ears and eyes, to fire off some “me too” rounds. It is highly unlikely that this officer could have had any idea of his target, if he saw one at all. To be completely fair, he was probably acting as police officers do, tending toward action rather than inaction, but proper SWAT training teaches only appropriate, effective action. There is absolutely no room for “me too” shooting, on the street or during SWAT operations.

(12) It is not, of course, possible to know what the officers did prior to the video, but they had obviously been there for at least a short time before the videotaping began.

FINAL THOUGHTS:

The information available through media accounts does not present clear probable cause for a search of Guerena’s home. One media account noted:

“The reports state Jose Guerena; his brother, Alejandro; and Jose Celaya were named as suspects in briefings given to officers before the search warrants were served. Many of the officers' reports refer to the sheriff's long-term drug investigation as the reason for the search warrants.

Reports show about $100,000 in cash, marijuana and firearms were seized that morning from the four homes that were searched.

Items found in Jose Guerena's house included: a Colt .38-caliber handgun, paperwork, tax returns, insurance papers, bank statements and a bank card, reports showed.

Another report said detectives found body armor in a hallway closet and a U.S. Border Patrol hat in the garage.”

Notice that there is no information to indicate that any drugs or money were found in Guerena’s home, or that Guerena or his home, were in any way directly related to criminal activity. In fact, the police have, to date, not released the search warrant affidavit, warrant and return for Guerena’s home. However, there is no evidence to indicate that they found anything at all illegal in Guerena’s home. If they had, considering the public and Internet attention this case is generating, they surely would have made it public. Any drug case they were working has long been blown. Secrecy is no longer an issue.

None of the items listed as having been found in Guerena’s home are illegal, or indeed, unusual, particularly for a former Marine who had served two combat tours. One reason that the warrant information has not been released is likely that it was non-specific. In other words, the grounds for searching Guerena’s home may have been shaky at best.

Another media reports notes:

“According to a report, a detective interviewing Jose Guerena's younger brother, Jesus Gerardo Guerena, asked him about the slayings of Manuel and Cynthia Orozco. Jesus Guerena said he knew the couple because they were related to his brother Alejandro's wife.

According to Star archives, Manuel and Cynthia Orozco were killed during a home invasion in March 2010.”

This seems to indicate the police straining to find justification for SWAT involvement in the search, to say nothing of justifying the search itself. Guerena’s younger brother knew two people killed in a 2010 home invasion because they were related to his brother’s wife? Hopefully this is not the extent of the police’s justification for the search, or of Guerena’s being “linked to a double homicide.”

Very disturbing is the fact that the police did not allow Guerena medical help for about an hour and a quarter. In fact, they may not have entered the home after their fusillade of fire, instead withdrawing and eventually sending in a robot to poke and prod Guerena to make sure he was dead. That the SWAT team apparently did not immediately follow up their fire and completely clear the home is further, damning evidence of unbelievably poor leadership and execution. For those who have experience in such matters, the apparent behavior of the police is simply mind-boggling.

What is also unknown is how the police handled the aftermath of the shooting. Officer involved shootings are probably the most demanding situations officers face. The need for absolute perfection in the handling and collection of evidence, the interviewing of witnesses and involved officers, even the precise accounting for each round fired and its final resting place—a nightmare in this case—is of the utmost importance. The slightest deviation from proper procedure can indicate incompetence, cover-up or both.

As you read further accounts of this situation keep in mind that the actions of the police must be judged only on what they knew, or reasonably should have known, when they arrived to serve the warrant that morning. Post-shooting attempts to paint Guerena as the worlds most dangerous drug dealer and homicidal maniac (who, faced with four armed men he likely recognized as police did not take his weapon off safe) mean nothing at all, other than that the police are furiously spinning to justify what may turn out to be unjustifiable.

I don’t have all the facts. No one does. But based on the video, and what is currently known, it is very hard indeed to see how the police acted with anything less than amazing incompetence, incompetence that cost the life of a former Marine, a man who was apparently a solid citizen working hard in a copper mine to provide for his young family.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 01, 2011, 09:14:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_tGqHtrgtH4


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 02, 2011, 05:56:49 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iMr76atjUA


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 02, 2011, 06:20:49 AM
By Claudia Grisales | Wednesday, May 25, 2011, 01:15 PM

Austin police and city officials this morning awarded Cpl. Javier Bustos, who wounded an armed man following a September police pursuit, the medal of valor, a departmental recognition used to honor courage displayed while on the duty.

On Sept. 25, Bustos shot Pat Allen Faith in the shoulder when Faith raised his gun at other drivers in Southeast Austin following a high-speed chase with police, officials have said. Faith then shot and killed himself, police said.

“What was displayed that day was true bravery,” Police Chief Art Acevedo said before presenting the award to Bustos with Mayor Lee Leffingwell at his side. “Cpl. Bustos did what we trained him to do.”

The award comes days after former Travis County Sheriff Margo Frasier, in her first review as the newly installed police monitor, criticized certain actions of officers and raised concerns about a series of communication failures among 911 operators connected to the September incident.

Acevedo has said his department continues to review the events of that night, while Sgt. Wayne Vincent, president of the Austin police union, has described Frasier’s comments as unreasonable “second-guessing.”

In her memo, Frasier agreed that Bustos appropriately used deadly force.

On Wednesday, Bustos expressed gratitude for the honor, following a standing ovation from dozens of fellow officers, family and friends who attended the event at a police training center in Southeast Austin.

“If I could take this medal and break it into little pieces, I would give it to the people involved that night” along with those who trained me, Bustos said upon receiving the award. “Those officers involved that night, those are my heroes.”

Note: This story has been edited to correctly attribute a quote to Sgt. Wayne Vincent, president of the Austin police union.



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 02, 2011, 06:22:57 AM
The point of my thread here is no to say there are not individual acts of bravery, heroism, etc, its to show that in general as a society we are becoming more of a police state as a whole.   

And we are.   There is no denying that by any rational person. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 02, 2011, 06:26:26 AM
The point of my thread here is no to say there are not individual acts of bravery, heroism, etc, its to show that in general as a society we are becoming more of a police state as a whole.   

And we are.   There is no denying that by any rational person. 

If that is the point of your thread, you've failed miserably  :-\


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 02, 2011, 06:27:23 AM
If that is the point of your thread, you've failed miserably  :-\

I really don't think you are the best person to make that assessment.    ;D  ;D


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 02, 2011, 06:36:29 AM
I really don't think you are the best person to make that assessment.    ;D  ;D

you may have a point


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 02, 2011, 07:01:05 AM
I don't know if you are familiar with Alex Jones or not but he is a local here. Met him a few times, nice enough guy in person. I used to listen to his radio show just because I knew him and he would often talk about local law enforcement. I would listen to him on many occassions talking about an incident that I had intimate knowledge of, and he would be putting a ridiculous police state spin on it. It was funny at the time because it was so ridiculous. One example was a situation where we were looking for a  couple guys who had committed an aggravated robbery of an individual and fled the scene in a vehicle. Cops located the car and a pursuit took place ending with the guys bailing out and running into the neighborhood where Alex happened to be living. A perimiter was established, and the police helicopter was up so we called for their assistance. The copter showed up, flew around the area we eventually located the guys on top of a shed in a backyard.

That Sunday Alex did 2 hrs on how black helicopters were spying on him because of what he does.

I say I used to find him funny. Now not so much because there are a lot of people out there just gullible enough to start believing half the things he says.           


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 02, 2011, 07:33:07 AM
I dont listen to AJ. 

I only know what I deal with on a day to day basis.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 02, 2011, 08:38:19 AM
I dont listen to AJ. 

I only know what I deal with on a day to day basis.   

Give me an example of what you dealt with yesterday 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 02, 2011, 08:47:51 AM
Give me an example of what you dealt with yesterday 

Yesterday - lets see - County Cop stationed at the exit on to Bronx River PKWY backing up traffic at rush hour checking seat belts causing chaos. 

Traffic madness backed up for a while.  i dont blame the cop himself cause heis following directions, but seriously?   Seatbelt check during rush hour at an already over used traffic area?   

GMAFB.   

   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 02, 2011, 09:01:21 AM
Yesterday - lets see - County Cop stationed at the exit on to Bronx River PKWY backing up traffic at rush hour checking seat belts causing chaos. 

Traffic madness backed up for a while.  i dont blame the cop himself cause heis following directions, but seriously?   Seatbelt check during rush hour at an already over used traffic area?   

GMAFB.   

   

How did you determing he was checking seatbealts? Just curious


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 02, 2011, 09:02:38 AM
How did you determing he was checking seatbealts? Just curious

Asked him.   



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on June 02, 2011, 11:13:49 AM
I don't know if you are familiar with Alex Jones or not but he is a local here. Met him a few times, nice enough guy in person. I used to listen to his radio show just because I knew him and he would often talk about local law enforcement. I would listen to him on many occassions talking about an incident that I had intimate knowledge of, and he would be putting a ridiculous police state spin on it. It was funny at the time because it was so ridiculous. One example was a situation where we were looking for a  couple guys who had committed an aggravated robbery of an individual and fled the scene in a vehicle. Cops located the car and a pursuit took place ending with the guys bailing out and running into the neighborhood where Alex happened to be living. A perimiter was established, and the police helicopter was up so we called for their assistance. The copter showed up, flew around the area we eventually located the guys on top of a shed in a backyard.

That Sunday Alex did 2 hrs on how black helicopters were spying on him because of what he does.

I say I used to find him funny. Now not so much because there are a lot of people out there just gullible enough to start believing half the things he says.           

He's a nut.  You are correct that there are a number of gullible people out there who believe what this nut says. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 03, 2011, 07:32:00 AM
He's a nut.  You are correct that there are a number of gullible people out there who believe what this nut says. 

It's funny but people like Alex Jones, and many anti police folks like your ACLU and NAACP etc etc share something in common..

When they speak, they paint all cops with a broad brush. They will generalize and say how the cops brutalize the minorities, or the cops are nazi thugs in blue uniforms etc etc. But I notice that every once in awhile they let it slip that every cop they KNOW,or meet is cool, or a good cop. Kind of like a lot of bigots. They hate all blacks except Jim, and Joe and Bob and ...who are different than the other blacks... No, the fact is, you have an inaccurate preconception of blacks, or cops and you keep meeting good ones but can't get your mind around the realization that maybe it's not that you are just sooo lucky to meet the good ones, but that most of them are good, and you are simply wrong about them.

I hear it all the time. We have a local activist who is friends with half the force, but he can't help saying "APD is racist against blacks".. If you ask him, will what about officer Smith? "Oh no, he isn't" what about Officer Townes?" Oh, he's a good cop.."Well what about..." so on and so forth till you've named half the force. Ask them specifically who is racist and he doesn't have an answer, just that the police are...

Anyhoo, I've noticed that little gem over the years..   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on June 03, 2011, 10:19:41 AM
It's funny but people like Alex Jones, and many anti police folks like your ACLU and NAACP etc etc share something in common..

When they speak, they paint all cops with a broad brush. They will generalize and say how the cops brutalize the minorities, or the cops are nazi thugs in blue uniforms etc etc. But I notice that every once in awhile they let it slip that every cop they KNOW,or meet is cool, or a good cop. Kind of like a lot of bigots. They hate all blacks except Jim, and Joe and Bob and ...who are different than the other blacks... No, the fact is, you have an inaccurate preconception of blacks, or cops and you keep meeting good ones but can't get your mind around the realization that maybe it's not that you are just sooo lucky to meet the good ones, but that most of them are good, and you are simply wrong about them.

I hear it all the time. We have a local activist who is friends with half the force, but he can't help saying "APD is racist against blacks".. If you ask him, will what about officer Smith? "Oh no, he isn't" what about Officer Townes?" Oh, he's a good cop.."Well what about..." so on and so forth till you've named half the force. Ask them specifically who is racist and he doesn't have an answer, just that the police are...

Anyhoo, I've noticed that little gem over the years..   

Excellent point.  I talk to my kids all the time about the importance of avoiding overstatements. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on June 04, 2011, 11:41:09 AM
It's funny but people like Alex Jones, and many anti police folks like your ACLU and NAACP etc etc share something in common..

When they speak, they paint all cops with a broad brush. They will generalize and say how the cops brutalize the minorities, or the cops are nazi thugs in blue uniforms etc etc. But I notice that every once in awhile they let it slip that every cop they KNOW,or meet is cool, or a good cop. Kind of like a lot of bigots. They hate all blacks except Jim, and Joe and Bob and ...who are different than the other blacks... No, the fact is, you have an inaccurate preconception of blacks, or cops and you keep meeting good ones but can't get your mind around the realization that maybe it's not that you are just sooo lucky to meet the good ones, but that most of them are good, and you are simply wrong about them.

I hear it all the time. We have a local activist who is friends with half the force, but he can't help saying "APD is racist against blacks".. If you ask him, will what about officer Smith? "Oh no, he isn't" what about Officer Townes?" Oh, he's a good cop.."Well what about..." so on and so forth till you've named half the force. Ask them specifically who is racist and he doesn't have an answer, just that the police are...

Anyhoo, I've noticed that little gem over the years..   



I generally don't have a problem with cops and my brother is one, but IMO most of this generalizing is brought on by yourselves.  Lawyers, shrinks, and educators seem to have similar problems.  Anyway, you all often fail to police yourselves.  So, even though most of you are good, your failure to strictly weed out the bad ones causes those bad apples to overshadow a lot of what the good cops do.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 04, 2011, 11:47:13 AM
My point in starting this thread was not really about individual officers, but society in general on levels.   There are plenty of good cops, but as a nation we seem to be going over the top in what we criminalize and penalize.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on June 04, 2011, 11:49:17 AM
My point in starting this thread was not really about individual officers, but society in general on levels.   There are plenty of good cops, but as a nation we seem to be going over the top in what we criminalize and penalize.   




I agree, we criminalize and penalize way too much.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: garebear on June 05, 2011, 08:04:05 AM
Right on, bros.

Should be more penilize and less penalize. (No homo)


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 06, 2011, 07:32:07 AM
Sheriff Dipshit Strikes again.     Will he blame Limbaugh and talk radio again for this? 

 





Pima deputies charged with theft of drug money
KOLD 13 ^ | June 3, 2011 | Brian White


________________________ ________________________ __


TUCSON, AZ (KOLD) - Unsealed court records allege that two former Pima County Sheriffs deputies worked together to pull over known drug traffickers to steal their money.

In the "superseding indictment" that was unsealed Thursday, prosecutors allege that then-Deputies Miguel Arvizu and Francisco Jimenez arranged to also provide "security" while others stole drugs and money from a storage facility in Green Valley.

Arvizu was a deputy for nearly seven years, from June 8, 2003, to when he resigned April 28, 2010. Jimenez was hired June 23, 2006, and resigned March 17, 2011.

The charges paint a picture of two allegedly corrupt deputies who ran drugs and stole the profits, according to the indictment.

In all, Arvizu is charged with eight counts that include theft of government money and attempted distribution of 3 kilograms of cocaine. Jimenez faces similar charges.


The indictment, which was unsealed Thursday, alleges Jimenez used his position at Pima County Sheriff's Department and his patrol car in the commission of several offenses. The indictment also alleges that Arvizu, a former Pima County Sheriff's deputy, assisted Jimenez and his other co-conspirators in stealing drugs and drug sale proceeds.

The indictment alleges that on June 26, 2010, Arvizu arranged a traffic stop on a vehicle that that purportedly contained drug proceeds, according to court documents. Jimenez allegedly stole $4,000 from the car's glove compartment, and later gave Arvizu a portion of the money.

On October 8, Jimenez searched a vehicle parked at the Tucson Mall that purportedly contained drug proceeds, and stole another $4,000 from the glove compartment.

On November 24, Arvizu arranged for Jimenez to provide "security" while co-conspirators broke into a storage facility in Green Valley and allegedly stole controlled substances and drug proceeds, according to court documents.

Arvizu has been charged with eight counts, including: conspiracy to commit an offense against the United States, theft of government money and property, attempted distribution of three kilograms of cocaine, attempted possession with the intent to distribute more than 100 kilograms of marijuana, and assaulting a person having lawful charge, custody, and control of money and other property of the United States, with the intent to rob, steal, and purloin said money and property of the United States.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 07, 2011, 12:41:07 PM


I generally don't have a problem with cops and my brother is one, but IMO most of this generalizing is brought on by yourselves.  Lawyers, shrinks, and educators seem to have similar problems.  Anyway, you all often fail to police yourselves.  So, even though most of you are good, your failure to strictly weed out the bad ones causes those bad apples to overshadow a lot of what the good cops do.

I respectfully disagree. Again, speaking for my department, we do a very good job of weeding out the bad ones. We have a systems in place that  help us do that. Everytime any force is used that requires more than just putting someone in handcuffs we are required to do use of force reports. A supervisor reviews them and depending on the seriousness it can be a level 3 which just requires notes be added to the report by the Sergeant, pressure points, pepper spray, wrist locks are an example. A strike to any part of the body is a level 2 and he Sergeant must respond, interview witnesses and suspect... a strike to the head, or any force that requires hospitalization is a 1 and a special unit investigates. Then there is the video cameras in every car and mikes on every patrol officer. We are just now starting to outfit our bike and walking beat officers with body cameras. I think we are going a little too far for the sake of being transparent and trying to show we are doing things right, but once in awhile you have an officer that does something stupid, or criminal and some segments assume it is a large portion of us.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on June 07, 2011, 04:02:24 PM
I respectfully disagree. Again, speaking for my department, we do a very good job of weeding out the bad ones. We have a systems in place that  help us do that. Everytime any force is used that requires more than just putting someone in handcuffs we are required to do use of force reports. A supervisor reviews them and depending on the seriousness it can be a level 3 which just requires notes be added to the report by the Sergeant, pressure points, pepper spray, wrist locks are an example. A strike to any part of the body is a level 2 and he Sergeant must respond, interview witnesses and suspect... a strike to the head, or any force that requires hospitalization is a 1 and a special unit investigates. Then there is the video cameras in every car and mikes on every patrol officer. We are just now starting to outfit our bike and walking beat officers with body cameras. I think we are going a little too far for the sake of being transparent and trying to show we are doing things right, but once in awhile you have an officer that does something stupid, or criminal and some segments assume it is a large portion of us.



It doesn't matter, you could have 100 checks and balances.  The only thing the public cares about is the end result, and in the end, the police do a horrible job of policing themselves.  Rarely are cops terminated. 

I'm not exempt by the way.  As a public employee myself, we also do a horrible job of weeding out the incompetent lackies.  Just trying to get one out is a bureaucratic nightmare.  And the public does take notice.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 08, 2011, 06:33:47 AM
Education officials break down Stockton man's door
12:15 AM, Jun 8, 2011 

 

STOCKTON, CA - Kenneth Wright does not have a criminal record and he had no reason to believe a S.W.A.T team would be breaking down his door at 6 a.m. on Tuesday.

"I look out of my window and I see 15 police officers," Wright said.

Wright came downstairs in his boxer shorts as a S.W.A.T team barged through his front door. Wright said an officer grabbed him by the neck and led him outside on his front lawn.

"He had his knee on my back and I had no idea why they were there," Wright said.

According to Wright, officers also woke his three young children ages 3, 7, and 11 and put them in a Stockton police patrol car with him. Officers then searched his house.

As it turned out, the person law enforcement was looking for was not there - Wright's estranged wife.

"They put me in handcuffs in that hot patrol car for six hours, traumatizing my kids," Wright said.

Wright said he later went to the mayor and Stockton Police Department, but the City of Stockton had nothing to do with Wright's search warrant.

The U.S. Department of Education issued the search and called in the S.W.A.T for his wife's defaulted student loans.  

"They busted down my door for this," Wright said. "It wasn't even me."

According to the Department of Education's Office of the Inspector General, the case can't be discussed publicly until it is closed, but a spokesperson did confirm that the department did issue the search warrant at Wright's home.

The Office of the Inspector General has a law enforcement branch of federal agents that carry out search warrants and investigations.

Stockton Police Department said it was asked by federal agents to provide one officer and one patrol car just for a police presence when carrying out the search warrant.

Stockton police did not participate in breaking Wright's door, handcuffing him, or searching his home.

"All I want is an apology for me and my kids and for them to get me a new door," Wright said.

News10/KXTV

http://www.news10.net/news/article/141072/2/Dept-of-Education-breaks-down-Stockton-mans-door



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tt2yGzHfy7s


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 10, 2011, 10:08:38 AM
Source: The New York Times


POUGHKEEPSIE, N.Y. — For Bill O’Brien, summer has meant the serene bliss of the Hudson River ever since he went out fishing for stripers as a boy. But last year, after he was stopped once too often by law enforcement patrol boats with armed officers, he decided he had had it. He sold his 22-foot jet boat, convinced that a restful afternoon on the Hudson was just becoming too stressful to enjoy.

“One time I got stopped four times in one day.” Mr. O’Brien, 45, an M.R.I. technologist from Orange County, said. “It feels like every agency and municipality on the Hudson has a boat, and they’re all out there trying to justify themselves by finding someone doing something wrong. It’s just gotten out of control.”

Ten years after the terror attacks downriver made security checks a commonplace aspect of everyday life, a tea party of sorts is brewing on the Hudson, as boaters and marine businesses complain bitterly about being stopped too often and questioned too closely by officers wearing flak jackets and holstered pistols — many of them on the lookout for terrorists.

And as boating season begins, that vigilance has become one of those vexing flashpoints, like baggage searches and airport body scans, in the shifting definition of what is normal — post-9/11 overreaction to some, and a response to real risks to others.

Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/11/nyregion/stepped-up-s...



________________________ _-


This is definately true.


Between the coasties, every damn PD, Rockland Westchester county,  Fire Department, etc, its become like the gestapo out there.   

 
Its a royal pain in the ass dealing with these jerkoffs.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 10, 2011, 10:18:56 AM
Janet Napolitano Visits NYU Law School to Discuss Need for Citizen Spies
The Activist Post ^ | June 9, 2011 | (unattributed)





Homeland Security head, Janet Napolitano, continued her campus tour in a recent stop at NYU Law School where she gave a speech about the state of security as we approach the 10-year anniversary of the 9/11 attacks, and following the announced death of Osama bin Laden.

In the video below Napolitano lays out a sweeping surveillance agenda that includes citizen spies who have a mission of "shared responsibility" to thwart "Core" al-Qaeda, foreign groups "inspired by" al-Qaeda, as well as domestic "extremist" groups, which apparently include an increasing number of plots by U.S. citizens. She added that "there is no single portrait" of today's potential terrorist, citing recruiting tactics "including Hip Hop videos, if you can imagine that." And, naturally, cyberspace. Each of the four key ways that she stated as critical to Homeland Security's mission will widen the Stasi-style network of unpaid employees of the State virtually deputized to spy on their neighbor in the private and public sector and issue reports to the DHS federal security matrix.

Strengthen the nation's 72 fusion centers, which coordinate with local police, businesses, churches, universities and more in a cooperative effort to federalize local communities.

Continue the expanded use of Suspicious Activity Reports (SAR), initially used for IRS reporting and for businesses to alert government officials to large cash purchases at their establishments. The new initiative will cover all sectors that will share back to DHS.

Launch the National Terrorism Advisory System to replace the general color-coded terror alert system and set up a "base level" high risk, which will be augmented with specific messages. One component of this new system that she does not address is that it will be directed toward the individual by utilizing a text messaging system, as well as social networks to issue government statements and warnings (or propaganda).

Continue expansion of a national "If You See Something, Say Something" campaign that began with the NY Metropolitan Transit Authority, and kicked off at private businesses like Wal-Mart whereby people can receive ongoing messages via telescreens in government buildings, private businesses and public areas, then report on anyone for any reason without consequence for false reports.
She also predictably suggests that the counter-terrorism apparatus is a useful tool that can save citizens in need of rescue from natural disasters.

 More likely, it is the roll-out of soft martial law that will create a permanent state of fear, suspicion, false arrests, police brutality, and the end of the American republic in the same fashion that led to the end of every society that chose the path of security over freedom.



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 10, 2011, 10:27:52 AM
Hudson Boaters Angered by Security Checks
Suzanne DeChillo/The New York Times

The Westchester County Police marine unit patrolling the Hudson River near the Indian Point nuclear power plant. Boaters are far more likely to be stopped than they were in the past, law enforcement officials say, but that is just a fact of life after 9/11.  

By PETER APPLEBOME




POUGHKEEPSIE, N.Y. — For Bill O’Brien, summer has meant the serene bliss of the Hudson River ever since he went out fishing for stripers as a boy. But last year, after he was stopped once too often by law enforcement patrol boats with armed officers, he decided he had had it. He sold his 22-foot jet boat, convinced that a restful afternoon on the Hudson was just becoming too stressful to enjoy.

Enlarge This Image
 
Suzanne DeChillo/The New York Times

Last year, after being stopped on the river once too often by armed law enforcement officers, Bill O'Brien sold his 22-foot jet boat.
Enlarge This Image
 
Suzanne DeChillo/The New York Times
Boaters near Croton-on Hudson. The authorities say increased vigilance of small boats is needed, given that antiterrorism experts cite


“One time I got stopped four times in one day.” Mr. O’Brien, 45, an M.R.I. technologist from Orange County, said. “It feels like every agency and municipality on the Hudson has a boat, and they’re all out there trying to justify themselves by finding someone doing something wrong. It’s just gotten out of control.”

Ten years after the terror attacks downriver made security checks a commonplace aspect of everyday life, a tea party of sorts is brewing on the Hudson, as boaters and marine businesses complain bitterly about being stopped too often and questioned too closely by officers wearing flak jackets and holstered pistols — many of them on the lookout for terrorists.

And as boating season begins, that vigilance has become one of those vexing flashpoints, like baggage searches and airport body scans, in the shifting definition of what is normal — post-9/11 overreaction to some, and a response to real risks to others.

A petition drive among boaters has generated hundreds of signatures and scores of angry comments. Boat clubs are mulling strategies, and the largest boating-industry group along the river, the Hudson Valley Marine Trades Association, recently wrote the Coast Guard commander in New York to protest “an incredible increase of recreational vessel boarding.”

Boaters say the stops have multiplied in large part because they are only minimally coordinated among roughly two dozen agencies that watch the river: federal authorities, state police from New York and New Jersey, county sheriffs’ departments and a host of other organizations, familiar and obscure, including the Border Patrol and the New York Naval Militia.

But Coast Guard and law enforcement officials say much of their watchfulness reflects a bigger concern: In addition to its quiet joys and natural splendor, the Hudson is home to some potentially rich targets for terrorists — including the Indian Point nuclear power plant, West Point and the Tappan Zee Bridge — and could become a pathway for attackers to reach New York City unnoticed.

Those officials say that, yes, boaters on the Hudson and on other waterways are far more likely to be stopped than they were in the past, but that is just one way in which life has changed.

“We get a lot of complaints, but maritime safety and security has taken on a whole new direction since 9/11 — we’re more proactive, we’re more vigilant,” said Lt. James Luciano, who oversees the Westchester County Police Department’s marine unit. “Before 9/11, you could access buildings more easily than you can today. Look at airport security.”

No one compiles figures for all the agencies patrolling the Hudson, so it is unclear how much enforcement has escalated. The Coast Guard says its boardings vary from year to year, and dropped to 300 last year, from 741 the previous year.

But the authorities say increased vigilance is needed, given that antiterrorism experts cite small boats as a particular threat — as evidenced in the deadly 2008 attacks in Mumbai, India, that were begun from two inflatable speedboats. About 45,000 boats are registered in counties along the Hudson.

Lex Filipowski, a businessman and motivational speaker, said he had been furious about the situation since he was stopped four times in two days by four agencies. “If they stopped cars on the roadways the way they stop boats on the river, there would be a revolution” he said.  

As he launched his 25-foot-long boat, “Carpe Diem,” at the Pirate Canoe Club here, another boater, Frank Bergman, seemed as concerned with boating politics as with boating.

“We understand they have a job to do to keep the bridges safe and protect Indian Point, but it’s just overkill,” said Mr. Bergman, president of the Hudson River Boat and Yacht Club, which represents 36 boat clubs. “The question in my mind is, is it homeland security or boater safety or just harassment and justifying their jobs?”

Boaters, a sometimes cantankerous and self-regarding lot, have grumbled for years about the stops, which can involve being pulled over for a check of credentials and required safety gear like life vests, or a demand to board the boat for inspection.

The discontent began to escalate when Mr. Filipowski posted an angry statement and petition last June on the Web site of the magazine Boating on the Hudson. More than 250 people signed, many expressing their own grievances.

“I’m thinking about selling my boat, stopped all the time,” one wrote.

“We are not terrorists and criminals,” wrote another. “We are citizens who own and use boats.”
 

Marinas and boat sellers, their customers already buffeted by high gasoline prices, also raised alarms. “We are operating in tough economic times and cannot afford to lose customers who are discouraged by law enforcement operations,” Gabe Capobianchi, president of the marine trades association, wrote the Coast Guard last month.

It was not always this way. Before 9/11, some boaters complained of too little law enforcement. “Back then the Hudson felt like the Wild West,” said George Samalot, who has owned a sailboat repair business in West Haverstraw since 1985.

But since the 2001 attacks, security and enforcement have been transformed, aided by grants from the Department of Homeland Security that have underwritten more and better boats and manpower. Westchester County did not have a marine unit until 1999; now it has two high-tech surveillance boats that cost $250,000 and $400,000 and can patrol around the clock.

That can be a good thing. When Detectives Kenneth Hasko and C. J. Westbrook cruised from Tarrytown to Cortlandt one recent Friday, their one stop involved rescuing a couple in a new $40,000 boat with a dead battery, stuck on a sunken barge. The officers found the couple’s knowledge of marine safety and their own boat to be somewhat lacking.

“You have your flares?” Detective Westbrook asked.

“What’s a flare?” the man replied.

They towed the couple in and made sure they got help. “They could have ended up with a new boat with a hole in the hull,” Detective Westbrook said. “And we’re the bad guys?”

Officials say that while they are sensitive to the complaints, there is no going back to the world before 9/11.

“Job No. 1 is keeping people safe,” said Charles Rowe, a Coast Guard spokesman. “Even the ones who are complaining.”



http://www.guy-boaters.html?_r=1



________________________ ______________________-


I deal with this shit EVERY weekend by this assholes.   

I had a coast guard cutter with a .50 cal trained on me down near the empire state building last year. 

I didnt have the fire extinshuisher updated and the guy threatened me w impounding my boat.  They had four guys in BDU's with AR's and glocks and "escorted" me 1 miles north to the marina and made me get my car and tae the boat out of the water over an overdue fire extinshuisher.


The govt is killing everything in this country.   The terrorists have definately won. 

   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 10, 2011, 01:06:55 PM
Unlawful Police Entry Ruling Could Be Reconsidered (Indiana)
theindychannel.com ^ | 06/10/2011 | uncredited




INDIANAPOLIS -- The Indiana Supreme Court may reconsider its ruling that eliminates the right of homeowners to resist unlawful police entry into their homes.

The attorney for Richard Barnes, whose criminal case in Vanderburgh County led to the court ruling last month, filed a formal petition for a rehearing Thursday.

Barnes' attorney argues the ruling violates the Fourth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

"We believe however that a right to resist an unlawful police entry into a home is against public policy and is incompatible with modern Fourth Amendment jurisprudence," part of the petition read.

The court issued its controversial 3-2 ruling May 12, declaring that Hoosiers no longer had a legal right to resist police officers who are entering their home without a legal basis to do so.

The ruling said homeowners could instead seek legal remedies through court proceedings after the fact.

The decision sparked large public outcry, including from state officials. Seventy-one Indiana lawmakers filed a joint brief with the Supreme Court on Wednesday, asking the court to reconsider its opinion.

Gov. Mitch Daniels and Attorney General Greg Zoeller have publicly questioned the decision.


(Excerpt) Read more at theindychannel.com ...



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 10, 2011, 01:28:17 PM
Today I Learned The Department of Education Has a Police Force
Right Across The Atlantic ^ | Mike Merritt





Honestly, the first thing that comes to mind when I think “Department of Education” is No Child Left Behind, followed by a lot of trouble coming up with what else the DOE actually does in the government. Never in my life would I have thought that it contains its own set of federal agents that apparently have the power to raid people’s homes.

Yet, that’s what happened on Tuesday morning, as a California man woke to find feds from the DOE breaking down his door. And it gets uglier:

As Wright came downstairs in his boxer shorts, he said the officers barged through his front door. Wright said an officer grabbed him by the neck and led him outside on his front lawn.

“He had his knee on my back and I had no idea why they were there,” Wright said.

It turns out the agents had the wrong man. Not only the wrong man, but the person they were after wasn’t even a man, but his estranged wife! This poor guy was popped into a police car for six hours in front of his children. I suppose it’s better than the team shooting him down, like happened to Iraq vet Jose Guerena last month, right?

Not really. The militarization of our federal police force(s) has gotten ridiculous. When you hear more about raids than good ‘ol search warrants based on the fourth amendment then something is seriously wrong. Going further, there is absolutely no reason that so many federal agencies need the power to raid homes. The FBI? Sure. The DEA? Okay, I can see that in certain situations.


(Excerpt) Read more at theatlanticright.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 10, 2011, 06:46:53 PM
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Guest Post: Police State Amerika
zero hedge ^ | 6/10/11 | David Galland, Casey Research
Posted on June 10, 2011 8:33:27 PM EDT by Nachum

Police State Amerika

I just had a conversation with constitutional lawyer and monetary expert Dr. Edwin Vieira. I first became acquainted with Dr. Vieira, who holds four degrees from Harvard and has extensive experience arguing cases before the Supreme Court, at our recent Casey Research Summit in Boca Raton, where he spoke on how far off the constitutional rails the nation has traveled. Here is a summary of what he told me…

Dr. Vieira and I covered a lot of ground in our lengthy conversation, most of it related to the U.S. monetary system – its history, nature, and likely fate. But in between the details and analysis of how it is that the nation’s fiscal and monetary affairs have deteriorated to the current dismal state – and how the global sovereign debt crisis is likely to be resolved – a couple of deeply concerning truths emerged.

Concerning because, taken together, these truths have set the stage for a full-blown police state.

The first of these two truths has to do the nature of today’s money. To set the stage, I present the following excerpt from Dr. Vieira’s paper A Cross of Gold related to the original Federal Reserve Act.

Section 16 of the Act provided that:

Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Federal Reserve Board for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks are hereby authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States, and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in gold on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, or in gold or lawful money at any Federal reserve bank.

Observe: From the very first, Federal Reserve Notes were denominated “advances” and “obligations”—that is, instruments and evidence of debt. True “money”, however, is the most liquid of all assets, not a debt that might be repudiated, and certainly not a debt that has been serially repudiated.

And if Federal Reserve Notes were from the start to be “redeemed in gold or lawful money”, they obviously were never conceived to be either “gold” or “lawful money”. So, because by definition the only “money” the law recognizes is “lawful money”, by law Federal Reserve Notes were never (and are not now) actual “money” at all, but at best only some sort of substitute for “money”.

The monetary conjurers’ trick has been, slowly, steadily, and stealthily, to reverse this understanding in the public’s mind. That is, to make the substitute pass for the real thing, and then remove the real thing from the operation.

This subterfuge was not overly difficult to put over. After all, in the term “redeemable currency”, which is the noun and which the adjective? When people deal with a “paper currency redeemable in gold”, the natural uninstructed inclination is to treat the paper currency as “money” and the gold as something else. The paper currency, as the saying goes, is merely “backed” by gold—but of course is not itself gold. And because the currency is not itself gold, the money-manipulators can remove the gold “backing” farther and farther into the background, without affecting the nature of the paper as “currency” (at least nominally).

Thus, a “redeemable currency” can be converted into a “contingently redeemable” or “conditionally redeemable” currency, through temporary suspension of specie payments (as happened repeatedly during the Nineteenth Century); and then into a full-fledged “irredeemable currency”, through permanent suspension of specie payments, as with Federal Reserve Notes after 1933 domestically and 1971 internationally.

Yet, to the average citizen (whose most serious liability is mental inertia), even though a paper currency’s promise of redemption has been dishonored, it nonetheless remains “currency”.

Thus one grasps that the so-called “right to redemption” attached to any paper currency is actually a liability, inasmuch as it exposes the holders of that currency to repudiation, because they possess only the paper, not the gold.

Even in the best of times, the holders of redeemable paper currency are not economically and politically independent. Rather, they depend upon the honesty and the competence of the money-managers.

This is why America’s Founding Fathers, realists all, denominated redeemable paper currency as “bills of credit”. They knew that such bills’ values in gold or silver always depended upon the issuers’ credit—that is, ultimately, the issuers’ honesty and ability to manage their financial affairs.

The unavoidable trouble with “bills of credit”, though, is that they can (and usually do) turn out to be “bills of discredit”, when the holders discover that the money-managers are dishonest and incompetent—or worse, as is the situation today, highly competent at dishonesty. Then the holders of the paper currency (if they are sufficiently astute) realize how unwise it is to allow the gold to be held by the very people with the greatest incentive, and the uniquely favorable position and opportunity, to steal it.

But when the money-managers refuse to redeem their currency, what can the holders of that currency do to protect themselves? Well, what were they able to do in 1933 and in 1971? Nothing. If the holders of Federal Reserve Notes had enjoyed an effective, enforceable “right” to the gold that the Federal Reserve System and the Treasury of the United States promised to pay in redemption of those notes—that is, if the currency had been “redeemable” in the only meaningful sense that redemption was absolutely assured as a matter of law and especially fact—the gold seizures of 1933 and 1971 would never have happened.

Thus, the ostensibly “redeemable” character of paper currency of the pre-1933 and pre-1971 type did not protect the holders of that currency. Instead, it turned out to be the very device used to deceive, defraud, divest, and dispossess them of gold—proving in the most palpable manner that a society’s acceptance of “redeemable currency” is the product of confusion and the invitation to inevitable economic and political disaster.

In our conversation, Dr. Vieira ticked off eight specific ways in which the current monetary system is unconstitutional. While I won’t go into the specifics here, the important thing to understand is that, as currently operated, the federal government has managed to manipulate things to avoid any constitutional restrictions on its ability to spend.

This, of course, gives the government free rein to reward favored voting blocs with expensive social programs, buy fleets of limousines, launch expensive overseas adventures, bail out well-connected donors, and otherwise spend the country into ruin.

To understand why this is so important as a precedent to the evolution of fascism, view the matter in reverse by considering how different things would be if the constitutionally mandated requirement that the government’s currency be redeemable in good money – gold or silver – was still enforced. In that case, the government’s ability to spend would be effectively limited by what it collected in revenues. That, in turn, would have greatly curtailed its ability to grow into the bloated juggernaut it has.

In other words, the American ideal of a limited government would have been hard wired.

As it stands, though, exactly the opposite has been allowed to evolve – unchallenged by anyone, including the Supreme Court. Why has the nation’s highest court chosen not to tackle this clear breach of the Constitution?

According to Dr. Vieira, it is likely because if they were to void the current system as being unconstitutional, they would effectively blow apart the U.S. and global economy. But as they have no authority to even suggest an alternative system, they are faced with the reality that while they have the power to do great damage, they have no power to cushion the blow. And so, the Supreme Court does nothing.

As a result, the ability of the federal government to continue its insane spending and rolling out new initiatives designed to win over voters continues with no legal restraints – the latest example being the health-care initiative.

Put another way, in cahoots with the Fed, the federal government is able to wage war, bail out the banks, foster socialism, and otherwise bankrupt the nation – to do whatever it wants – largely thanks to its continued operation of an unconstitutional monetary system.

It Gets Worse…

The second fundamental truth is that the Supreme Court has been a co-conspirator and instrument of the government’s degradation of individual liberty.

Dr. Vieira and I spent a fair amount of time on this topic – of how the nation’s highest court could let stand the egregious excesses of recent decades; the Patriot Act, Guantanamo, institutionalized torture and renditions, domestic spying, eminent-domain abuses, warrantless searches, etc., etc. In his view, there can be only one of two reasons that the Supreme Court has been so accommodating – one is that the justices are incredibly incompetent, and the other is that they are working within the context of an unseen agenda.

Ruling out the first, his final conclusion is that they are operating with an unseen agenda in mind. In his view, that agenda revolves around the rising potential for widespread social unrest emanating from the nationwide monetary Ponzi scheme. Doing its part to prepare, the Supreme Court has been establishing the precedents necessary for the government to cope with that unrest.

Too radical a thought? Returning to Dr. Vieira’s point – ask yourself how else to explain the Supreme Court’s actions. Are they collectively of low intelligence, or otherwise so stupid as to be unable to understand the Constitution? Or do they now view the Constitution and the Bill of Rights as dead letters, freeing them up to respond to the government’s overheated demands for new and previously unimaginable new “emergency” (read “fascist”) powers?

Is there an alternative explanation?

On this general theme, Dr. Vieira correctly points out that, in order for a fascist state to exist does not require the government to actually arrest anyone – but only that they can arrest anyone. Do you think you broke a law over the past week? I can assure you that every one of you dear readers broke a lot of laws. Sure, you may not have realized you were breaking a law – but, as the old saying goes, “Ignorance of the law is no excuse.”

The Stage Is Set

Unrestricted in its growth by any constitutionally mandated limits on its ability to create and manipulate money – the official currency now being nothing more than IOUs redeemable in nothing more tangible than coins made out of base metal alloys with inflated face values – and supported by a Supreme Court that has unequivocally demonstrated a willingness to ignore or sign off on egregious tramplings of the Constitution, the stage is set for the U.S. government to evolve into something far more dangerous on the domestic front.

All it requires now is a triggering event, and it would be naïve to think that such an event won’t occur. Maybe not tomorrow, maybe not this decade – but when it inevitably does, the federal government already has all the precedents it needs to do “whatever it takes.” This absence of legal restrictions on its actions is the very foundation of fascism.

When I asked Dr. Vieira how the nation has progressed on a scale from 1 to 10 towards becoming a police state, with 10 being a full-blown version, he put us currently at about 7.

There really is no investment angle to be derived from this situation – well, at least nothing new. Owning tangible investments that will hold up in the face of a continued currency debasement continues to make sense – but with the caveat that FDR’s unconstitutional gold confiscation of the 1930s was let stand and there is zero reason to think that the accommodating Supreme Court wouldn’t go along with it again. One would hope to see straws in the wind before any moves toward confiscation would begin. Until those straws start flying, the precious metals – as well as other tangibles – belong as part of your portfolio.

And I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention the importance of politically diversifying your life and your money as one of the few steps you can take to avoid the serious risk that comes from being “all in” in a single jurisdiction.

Some readers have berated me for often writing on what might be considered gloomy topics. To which I would respond: If you are sitting in a theater and see a fire breaking out, would you fail to make others aware of it, because you didn’t want to interrupt their entertainment?

Well, we can see a fire blowing up – the kindling for which has been piled up deep by a series of out-of-control governments. Unless and until there is something akin to an “American Spring.” this fire is going to spread and consume even more of the accumulated wealth of the broader public – and maybe worse.

Do what you can to protect yourself and your families – then get on with your life. You may not be able to do much about the bigger-picture trend, but you can certainly take steps on a personal level to mitigate the ill effects.

Hope for the best, plan for the worst… but then live life to the fullest

TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Miscellaneous; Click to Add Topic
KEYWORDS: amerika; default; economy; police; state; teachers; zombies; Click to Add Keyword
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1 posted on June 10, 2011 8:33:29 PM EDT by Nachum
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To: Nachum
Bfl.


2 posted on June 10, 2011 8:35:25 PM EDT by Vigilantcitizen (I got a fever and the only prescription is more watermelon trickworm, better known as bass crack.)
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To: Nachum
bump


3 posted on June 10, 2011 9:02:40 PM EDT by Paperdoll (No more Bushs!)
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To: Nachum
How about a new currency: the Zombie dollar?


4 posted on June 10, 2011 9:15:40 PM EDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in a thunderous avalanche of rottenness heard across the universe.)
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To: Nachum
May as well get this ball rolling...

The 16th Amendment

was not ratified! The Income Tax is therefore illegal.
Note: As goes our nation in the push by the Socialist Council on Foreign Relations, so goes the rest of the “free” world. The CFR through its enforcement arm, the Communist United Nations, will eventually eliminate all
freedom in this world. Only you and I can stop it. Removing the funding provided directly by the US Taxpayer (all of our income taxes go out of the country) will be a huge blow to the Elitists who seek to be the world
dictator thru the UN.

{Philander Knox, Sec of State, 1909-1913, the Taft Administration, proclaimed the 16th amendment to be ratified just a few days before he left office in 1913 {sound familiar?}, to make way for the Wilson administration, even though he knew it had not been legally ratified.

Philander Knox had for many years been the primary attorney for the richest men in America, including Carnegie, Rockefeller, Morgan, the Vanderbilts, the Mellons, and others. He had created for them the largest cartel in the world, then was appointed, at their request, as the Attorney General in the McKinley/Roosevelt administrations, where he refused to enforce the Sherman
anti-trust laws against the cartel he had just created.

The income tax amendment was pushed through Congress in 1909 by Sen Nelson Aldrich, father-in-law of John D Rockefeller Jr, and grandfather and namesake of Nelson A Rockefeller, and would not have been ratified if Knox
had not fraudulently proclaimed it so.

http://www.apfn.net/Doc-100_bankruptcy20.htm


5


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 11, 2011, 09:20:26 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TL6bRLEtWlA


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: 240 is Back on June 12, 2011, 09:51:29 AM
great video, 33


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 13, 2011, 08:06:39 AM
THE EDITOR'S COLUMN: America, what is happening here?
Morning Journal ^ | 6/12/11 | Tom Skoch, Editor



HERE’S a story that is so screwy it sounds like a script from “The Simpsons,” but it’s real, and it’s about our federal government at work. That’s what makes it so scary.

At 6 a.m. last Tuesday, a good citizen, Kenneth Wright of Stockton, Calif., was awakened by the clamor of about 15 armed SWAT team members breaking through the front door of his house.

Wearing only his boxer shorts as he came downstairs, Wright was grabbed by the neck and put down on his lawn with an officer’s knee on his back.

His kids, ages 3, 7, and 11 were terrified. Wright, confused and upset, was handcuffed, stuffed into the back of a hot police cruiser and held there for six hours while the agents searched his home.

What’s going on here?

The commandos were armed agents of — really — the U.S. Department of Education. And they bashed their way into his house and held him and his children while they apparently searched for evidence of alleged student loan fraud involving Wright’s estranged wife.

Amazing. Alarming.

Why does the U.S. Department of Education need a SWAT squad? And why would they need to bash their way into an ordinary person’s house and terrorize everyone there at 6 a.m., just to look for student loan paperwork?

Those are good questions for the uber-bureaucrat who requested the search warrant, one Special Agent Howard Nance of the Education Department’s Office of the Inspector General.

But Nance isn’t answering questions. And his Education Gestapo is refusing public requests to explain themselves, citing an ongoing criminal investigation.

Unbelievable. Now faceless bureaucrats can tear up the Fourth Amendment and bash their way into your house brandishing heavy weapons in search of paperwork. And they refuse to explain themselves.

Your papers had better be in order, citizen.

Back in March 2010, I was puzzled to read an obscure account of the Department of Education seeking to buy a couple dozen short-barreled shotguns. Now we know what that was about.

Other unlikely federal bureaucracies have their own armed agents, too, including the Small Business Administration and even the Railroad Retirement Board, according to Quin Hillyer, writing in the Freedom Line Blog at the Center for Individual Freedom, based in Alexandria, Va.

Dealing with government bureaucrats is bad enough, but Americans are really in danger when the bureaucrats can send gunmen to break down your door for any stupid reason they can get a deranged judge to sign off on, as Kenneth Wright and his kids discovered this past week.

There’s no reason for these agencies to have their own little armies. And there’s even less reason for those agents to confront citizens with deadly weapons. Somebody is going to get killed, if for no other reason than negligent handling of those firearms. Check out the YouTube video of a U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency agent who shot himself in the foot while telling a classroom audience he was the only one in the room qualified to handle the pistol he was holding. Now imagine 15 jumpy, macho Education Department commandos with loaded shotguns milling around in your living room.

Apparently all these bureaucratic armed squads in the Executive branch of government have their roots in a law adopted in 1978 setting up Inspector General offices. Shame on Congress for not thinking that one through. Now Congress needs to undo that damage.

Similarly, President Obama needs to tell the Department of Education and all the other oddball armed Inspector General units in his Executive Branch to stand down and turn in their guns before they hurt somebody.

Obama might be a little gun-shy right now, though. That’s because tomorrow, Republican Congressman Darrell Issa of California is to open a congressional hearing into the Project Gunrunner Operation Fast and Furious scandal that has barely made the national news yet.

That’s the scandal in which the U.S. Department of Justice led by Obama crony Eric Holder has been stonewalling congressional inquiries into why the Justice Department’s Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) allowed hundreds of firearms to be purchased illegally in the U.S. and taken into Mexico supposedly for tracking to narco-gangsters, and how some of those guns the ATF lost track of turned up in connection with the murders of two U.S. agents and who knows how many Mexican citizens.

Whistleblowers indicate that the OK for this insanity went high up into the Justice Department. How could such a dangerous international operation get started without approval of the attorney general or the White House?

And how could anyone who is competent and in their right mind, possibly allow such a ridiculous and potentially deadly scheme to go ahead?

So far, Obama has said only that he and Holder did not authorize the Gunrunner Fast and Furious scheme, which falls short of saying they knew nothing about it.

The answers Rep. Issa is seeking could be, well, explosive.

Meanwhile, make sure not to fudge your college loan paperwork, lest you get a rude awakening at the end of a Department of Education shotgun.

America, what is happening here?

Tom Skoch is editor of The Morning Journal and www.MorningJournal.com, where his Tell the Editor blog appears. He is on Twitter as MJ_Tom_Skoch and can be contacted by e-mail at tskoch@morningjournal.com.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Hereford on June 13, 2011, 11:24:47 AM
So what is so bad about a police state? If they police and contain the shitbags that are causing the problems in society, isn't that a good thing?

The majority of issues and social rot that is taking place today is due to liberalism and scaling back the policing of society.  If drug addicts wern't typically thieves and con-artists, then society probably wouldn't be so adverse to drug-use.

And another thing... the coast guard isn't going to waste time liek that for a bad fire-extinguisher. There is more to that story. You were probably being a prick and pissed them off.



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 13, 2011, 11:28:36 AM
So what is so bad about a police state? If they police and contain the shitbags that are causing the problems in society, isn't that a good thing?

The majority of issues and social rot that is taking place today is due to liberalism and scaling back the policing of society.  If drug addicts wern't typically thieves and con-artists, then society probably wouldn't be so adverse to drug-use.

And another thing... the coast guard isn't going to waste time liek that for a bad fire-extinguisher. There is more to that story. You were probably being a prick and pissed them off.



Absoutely not.   Out on the water, the last thing you wan to do is piss off the coasties.   They can really ruin your day.   

And I'm not bs'ing one bit on the fire extinguisher.     


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Hereford on June 13, 2011, 11:43:44 AM
Well fortunatly, I'm far enough away from the coast that I typically dont have to deal with them. Most of them I've run across out here are pretty cool.

Must be a New York thing.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 14, 2011, 03:54:48 AM
SWAT Team Mania: The War Against the American Citizen
ww.rutherford.org ^ | 13 June, 2011 | John W. Whitehead


________________________ ________________________ _______________



“He [a federal agent] had his knee on my back and I had no idea why they were there.”--Anthony Wright, victim of a Dept. of Education SWAT team raid

The militarization of American police--no doubt a blowback effect of the military empire--has become an unfortunate part of American life. In fact, it says something about our reliance on the military that federal agencies having nothing whatsoever to do with national defense now see the need for their own paramilitary units. Among those federal agencies laying claim to their own law enforcement divisions are the State Department, Department of Education, Department of Energy, U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, and the National Park Service, to name just a few. These agencies have secured the services of fully armed agents--often in SWAT team attire--through a typical bureaucratic sleight-of-hand provision allowing for the creation of Offices of Inspectors General (OIG). Each OIG office is supposedly charged with not only auditing their particular agency’s actions but also uncovering possible misconduct, waste, fraud, theft, or certain types of criminal activity by individuals or groups related to the agency’s operation. At present, there are 73 such OIG offices in the federal government that, at times, perpetuate a police state aura about them.

For example, it was heavily armed agents from one such OIG office, working under the auspices of the Department of Education, who forced their way into the home of a California man, handcuffed him, and placed his three children (ages 3, 7, and 11) in a squad car while they conducted a search of his home. This federal SWAT team raid, which is essentially what it was, on the home of Anthony Wright on Tuesday, June 7, 2011, was allegedly intended to ferret out information on Wright’s estranged wife, Michelle, who no longer lives with him and who was suspected of financial aid fraud (early news reports characterized the purpose of the raid as being over Michelle’s delinquent student loans). According to Wright, he was awakened at 6 am by the sound of agents battering down his door and, upon descending the stairs, was immediately subdued by police. One neighbor actually witnessed the team of armed agents surround the house and, after forcing entry, they “dragged [Wright] out in his boxer shorts, threw him to the ground and handcuffed him.”

This is not the first time a SWAT team has been employed in non-violent scenarios. Nationwide, SWAT teams have been employed to address an astonishingly trivial array of criminal activity or mere community nuisances: angry dogs, domestic disputes, improper paperwork filed by an orchid farmer, and misdemeanor marijuana possession, to give a brief sampling. In some instances, SWAT teams are even employed, in full armament, to perform routine patrols.

How did we allow ourselves to travel so far down the road to a police state? While we are now grappling with a power-hungry police state at the federal level, the militarization of domestic American law enforcement is largely the result of the militarization of local police forces, which are increasingly militaristic in their uniforms, weaponry, language, training, and tactics and have come to rely on SWAT teams in matters that once could have been satisfactorily performed by traditional civilian officers. Even so, this transformation of law enforcement at the local level could not have been possible without substantial assistance from on high.

Frequently justified as vital tools necessary to combat terrorism and deal with rare but extremely dangerous criminal situations, such as those involving hostages, SWAT teams--which first appeared on the scene in California in the 1960s--have now become intrinsic parts of local law enforcement operations, thanks in large part to substantial federal assistance. For example, in 1994, the U.S. Department of Justice and the Department of Defense agreed to a memorandum of understanding that enabled the transfer of federal military technology to local police forces. Following the passage of the Defense Authorization Security Act of 1997, which was intended to accelerate the transfer of military equipment to domestic law enforcement departments, local police acquired military weaponry--gratuitously or at sharp discounts--at astonishing rates. Between 1997 and 1999, the agency created by the Defense Authorization Security Act conveyed 3.4 million orders of military equipment to over 11,000 local police agencies in all 50 states. Not only did this vast abundance of military weaponry contribute to a more militarized police force, but it also helped spur the creation of SWAT teams in jurisdictions across the country.

In one of the few quantitative studies on the subject, criminologist Peter Kraska found in 1997 that close to 90 percent of cities with populations exceeding 50,000 and at least 100 sworn officers had at least one paramilitary unit. In a separate study, Kraska determined that, as of 1996, 65 percent of towns with populations between 25,000 and 50,000 had a paramilitary unit, with an additional 8 percent intending to establish one.

While the frequency of SWAT operations has increased dramatically in recent years, jumping from 1,000 to 40,000 raids per year by 2001, it appears to have less to do with increases in violent crime and more to do with law enforcement bureaucracy and a police state mentality. Indeed, according to Kraska’s estimates, 75-80 percent of SWAT callouts are now for mere warrant service. In some jurisdictions, SWAT teams are responsible for servicing 100 percent of all drug warrants issued. A Maryland study, conducted in the wake of a botched raid in 2008 that resulted in the mistaken detainment of Berwyn Heights mayor Cheye Calvo and the shooting deaths of his two dogs, corroborates Kraska’s findings. According to the study, SWAT teams are deployed 4.5 times per day in Maryland with 94 percent of those deployments being for something as minor as serving search or arrest warrants. In the county in which the Calvo raid occurred, more than 50 percent of SWAT operations carried out were for misdemeanors or non-serious felonies.

This overuse of paramilitary forces and increased reliance on military weaponry has inevitably resulted in a pervasive culture of militarism in domestic law enforcement. Police mimicry of the military is enhanced by the war-heavy imagery and metaphors associated with law enforcement activity: the war on drugs, the war on crime, etc. Moreover, it is estimated that 46 percent of paramilitary units were trained by “active-duty military experts in special operations.” In turn, the military mindset adopted by many SWAT members encourages a tendency to employ lethal force. After all, soldiers are authorized to terminate enemy combatants. As Lawrence Korb, a former official in the Reagan Administration, put it, soldiers are “trained to vaporize, not Mirandize.”

Ironically, despite the fact that SWAT team members are subject to greater legal restraints than their counterparts in the military, they are often less well-trained in the use of force than are the special ops soldiers on which they model themselves. Indeed, SWAT teams frequently fail to conform to the basic precautions required in military raids. For instance, after reading about a drug raid in Missouri, an army officer currently serving in Afghanistan commented:

My first thought on reading this story is this: Most American police SWAT teams probably have fewer restrictions on conducting forced entry raids than do US forces in Afghanistan. For our troops over here to conduct any kind of forced entry, day or night, they have to meet one of two conditions: have a bad guy (or guys) inside actively shooting at them; or obtain permission from a 2-star general, who must be convinced by available intelligence (evidence) that the person or persons they’re after is present at the location, and that it’s too dangerous to try less coercive methods.

Remember, SWAT teams originated as specialized units dedicated to defusing extremely sensitive, dangerous situations. As the role of paramilitary forces has expanded, however, to include involvement in nondescript police work targeting nonviolent suspects, the mere presence of SWAT units has actually injected a level of danger and violence into police-citizen interactions that was not present as long as these interactions were handled by traditional civilian officers. In one drug raid, for instance, an unarmed pregnant woman was shot as she attempted to flee the police by climbing out a window. In another case, the girlfriend of a drug suspect and her young child crouched on the floor in obedience to police instructions during the execution of a search warrant. One officer proceeded to shoot the family dogs. His fellow officer, in another room, mistook the shots for hostile gunfire and fired blindly into the room where the defendant crouched, killing her and wounding her child.

What we are witnessing is an inversion of the police-civilian relationship. Rather than compelling police officers to remain within constitutional bounds as servants of the people, ordinary Americans are being placed at the mercy of law enforcement. This is what happens when paramilitary forces are used to conduct ordinary policing operations, such as executing warrants on nonviolent defendants. Yet studies indicate that paramilitary raids frequently result in misdemeanor convictions. An investigation by Denver’s Rocky Mountain News revealed that of the 146 no-knock raids conducted in Denver in 2000, only 49 resulted in charges. And only two resulted in prison sentences for suspects targeted in the raids.

General incompetence, collateral damage (fatalities, property damage, etc.) and botched raids tend to go hand in hand with an overuse of paramilitary forces. In some cases, officers misread the address on the warrant. In others, they simply barge into the wrong house or even the wrong building. In another subset of cases (such as the Department of Education raid on Anthony Wright’s home), police conduct a search of a building where the suspect no longer resides. SWAT teams have even on occasion conducted multiple, sequential raids on wrong addresses or executed search warrants despite the fact that the suspect is already in police custody. Police have also raided homes on the basis of mistaking the presence or scent of legal substances for drugs. Incredibly, these substances have included tomatoes, sunflowers, fish, elderberry bushes, kenaf plants, hibiscus, and ragweed.

All too often, botched SWAT team raids have resulted in one tragedy after another for the residents with little consequences for law enforcement. Judges tend to afford extreme levels of deference to police officers who have mistakenly killed innocent civilians but do not afford similar leniency to civilians who have injured police officers in acts of self-defense. Even homeowners who mistake officers for robbers can be sentenced for assault or murder if they take defensive actions resulting in harm to police.

And as journalist Radley Balko shows in his in-depth study of police militarization, the shock-and-awe tactics utilized by many SWAT teams only increases the likelihood that someone will get hurt. Drug warrants, for instance, are typically served by paramilitary units late at night or shortly before dawn. Unfortunately, to the unsuspecting homeowner--especially in cases involving mistaken identities or wrong addresses--a raid can appear to be nothing less than a violent home invasion, with armed intruders crashing through their door. The natural reaction would be to engage in self-defense. Yet such a defensive reaction on the part of a homeowner, particularly a gun owner, will spur officers to employ lethal force.

That’s exactly what happened to Jose Guerena, the young ex-Marine who was killed after a SWAT team kicked open the door of his Arizona home during a drug raid and opened fire. According to news reports, Guerena, 26 years old and the father of two young children, grabbed a gun in response to the forced invasion but never fired. In fact, the safety was still on his gun when he was killed. Police officers were not as restrained. The young Iraqi war veteran was allegedly fired upon 71 times. Guerena had no prior criminal record, and the police found nothing illegal in his home.

The problems inherent in these situations are further compounded by the fact that SWAT teams are granted “no-knock” warrants at high rates such that the warrants themselves are rendered practically meaningless. This sorry state of affairs is made even worse by recent U.S. Supreme Court rulings that have essentially done away with the need for a “no-knock” warrant altogether, giving the police authority to disregard the protections afforded American citizens by the Fourth Amendment.

In the process, Americans are rendered altogether helpless and terror-stricken as a result of these confrontations with the police. Indeed, “terrorizing” is a mild term to describe the effect on those who survive such vigilante tactics. “It was terrible. It was the most frightening experience of my life. I thought it was a terrorist attack,” said 84-year-old Leona Goldberg, a victim of such a raid. Yet this type of “terrorizing” activity is characteristic of the culture that we have created. As author Eugene V. Walker, a former Boston University professor, wrote some years ago, “A society in which people are already isolated and atomized, divided by suspicious and destructive rivalry, would support a system of terror better than a society without much chronic antagonism.”


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 16, 2011, 06:02:23 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opq_TyU6moM


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 16, 2011, 06:20:10 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opq_TyU6moM

Couple things to consider here..

We heard one side of the story. It sounds awful. IF the what was reported turns out to be the facts of the case then the officers over reaction was unprofessional and quite possibly a civil rights violation. If what was reported turns out to be the facts, then the officers will likely be terminated and face civil and or criminal charges.

Having been at similar scenes many many times I can tell you that those kinds of situations are horribly sticky. The officers are trained to consider that scenario as a possible homicide. No assumptions can be made that it is just a suicide as history as shown us that isn't always the case. Any evidence lost or contaminated from the start can impact the end result of the investigation later on. So EMS is working on the subject, step father is over their shoulder, possibly intervening with the process due to being emotionally distraught. Officer, not knowing yet if this is a homicide, if this is the suspect, or if the persons actions are impeding the life saving measures being undertaken attempts to remove the person from the crime scene to A. let the paramedics do their job and 2. Protect the crime scene.

At this point is where the cops lose me. I wasn't there, but I've been at many a suicide, many a traffic fatality where family wants to rush to their childs/mother/dad/daughters side but we can't let them for the above reasons. It is heart breaking to keep them away, it is one of the most difficult things I've had to do, but I just don't believe the need to use force to the extent he was pretty beat up was necessary. I can understand physically removing a person from a crime scene. But you really have to weigh all the facts you have at the moment before deciding how far you have to go with it.

Like I said, I wasn't there, we haven't heard both sides of the story, but it looks bad. Many departments have a policy about not discussing a case like this while it's under investigation. My department used to do that and it drove me crazy. We would have a very legit incident happen, witnesses, video audio to back it up, but our Chief at the time would not make a single comment. So the media would have a field day for months with their version of what happened. By the time the video and audio was released 6 months later showing the officers did an outstanding job, no one cared. Our current Chief doesn't do that and it helps out a lot.
 



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 17, 2011, 07:28:28 AM
County shuts down kids’ lemonade stand, fines parents $500 BARF ALERT!
http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookout/20110617/ts_yblog_thelookout/county-shuts-down-kids-lemonade-stand-fines-parents-500 ^ | 6/17/2011 | Zachary Roth






A more wholesome American scene could hardly be imagined: a bunch of kids selling lemonade on a summer's day.

But local authorities in Montgomery County, Md., saw things differently. They shut down the kids' venture and ended up fining their parents $500.  

The Marriott and Augustine kids had set up their stand Thursday right next to the Congressional Country Club in Bethesda, Maryland, where the US Open golf tournament has been taking place--bringing thousands of thirsty fans to the neighborhood. The kids planned to send 50 percent their profits to a charity that fights pediatric cancer. But a Montgomery County inspector said the children needed a vendors' license to run the stand, according to a report from local TV station WUSA9. And after the stand proprietors allegedly ignored a few warnings, the inspector slammed the kids' parents with a $500 fine.

"Does every kid who sells lemonade now have to register with the county?" Carrie Marriott, the mother of one of the would-be entrepreneurs, asked the inspector.

"Cute little kids making five or ten dollars is a little bit different than making hundreds," replied the inspector. "You've got coolers and coolers here."

"To raise money for pediatric cancer," Marriott replied.


(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...



________________________ ______________________

At some point, people are just going to pull out a rope and hang these govt pieces of shit, well deserved too. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 17, 2011, 07:47:48 AM
Bellevue family sues FBI over 'terrifying' raid
Describing the fear
Keith Hodan | Tribune-Review
Brian Bowling is a Pittsburgh Tribune-Review staff writer and can be reached at 412-325-4301 or via e-mail.
PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, June 16, 2011



________________________ ____________________-



The lasting impact of the raid on Gary Adams' home became clear in a comment from his 3-year-old granddaughter during a recent trip to the pharmacy.

"She said, 'Granddad. Police. Hide,' " Adams, 57, of Bellevue recalled Wednesday while discussing the federal lawsuit he filed against the officers who burst into his home March 3.

Led by FBI Special Agent Karen Springmeyer, about a dozen officers used a battering ram to enter Adams' rented Orchard Street home in a search for Sondra Hunter, then 35. But Hunter hadn't lived at that address for almost two years, while Adams and his family had been living there for more than a year, according to the lawsuit filed by Adams and 10 other family members.

The family crowded into a Downtown conference room with their lawyer, Timothy O'Brien, to discuss the case.

An FBI spokeswoman referred all calls to the U.S. Attorney's Office, where a spokeswoman declined to comment.

The lawsuit says that officers knew, or should have known, that Hunter no longer lived there. By executing an arrest warrant at a residence that wasn't Hunter's, they violated the family's Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure, and their Fifth Amendment right to due process, the lawsuit says.

The officers were part of a local, state and federal task force rounding up more than three dozen people suspected of being members of the Manchester Original Gangsters street gang. Hunter was still at large at the end of the sweep, and court records show that she was living in Long Beach, Calif., at the time. She returned to Pittsburgh when she heard she was wanted by the police.

She is charged with conspiracy and heroin trafficking and is free on a $25,000 unsecured bond.

Adams said he knew Hunter's family from when they lived in Manchester, but there was no other connection between them and no reason for police to believe that Hunter lived in the house.

Other than citations for traffic violations and scalping tickets without a permit, Adams has been a law-abiding citizen.

The incident destroyed his confidence in the police and his ability to sleep through the night, he said.

"They had guns on my wife, my babies. I'd like to know how they would feel -- the people in my house -- if that happened to them," he said.

Denise Adams, 58, said seeing the red dots from the officers' targeting lasers crawl across her children's faces also has cost her faith in law enforcement.

"I don't want to, but this was terrifying," she sobbed.

Duquesne University law professor Bruce Ledewitz said arrest warrants don't give police carte blanche to enter any building because they think a suspect is inside. Instead, such warrants only authorize police to go to the person's residence.

Police usually enjoy "qualified immunity" from lawsuits even when they make mistakes, as long as they were carrying out their duties responsibly, he said. Entering a residence without probable cause, however, would strip the immunity away from those officers.

University of Pittsburgh law professor David Harris said the family faces several obstacles in winning. In particular, he thought it would be tough for them to overcome the officer's qualified immunity because the Supreme Court has repeatedly raised the bar for suing police officers.

"Not only do they have to make a mistake, it has to have been particularly egregious," for them to lose immunity, he said. "They have to be violating a law that was absolutely crystal clear, and they have to have known it."



Read more: Bellevue family sues FBI over 'terrifying' raid - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_742235.html#ixzz1PY4sMjQJ


________________________ _____________________

And some of you wonder why many hate the police? 



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 20, 2011, 08:05:36 AM
Bellevue family sues FBI over 'terrifying' raid
Describing the fear
Keith Hodan | Tribune-Review
Brian Bowling is a Pittsburgh Tribune-Review staff writer and can be reached at 412-325-4301 or via e-mail.
PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, June 16, 2011



________________________ ____________________-



The lasting impact of the raid on Gary Adams' home became clear in a comment from his 3-year-old granddaughter during a recent trip to the pharmacy.

"She said, 'Granddad. Police. Hide,' " Adams, 57, of Bellevue recalled Wednesday while discussing the federal lawsuit he filed against the officers who burst into his home March 3.

Led by FBI Special Agent Karen Springmeyer, about a dozen officers used a battering ram to enter Adams' rented Orchard Street home in a search for Sondra Hunter, then 35. But Hunter hadn't lived at that address for almost two years, while Adams and his family had been living there for more than a year, according to the lawsuit filed by Adams and 10 other family members.

The family crowded into a Downtown conference room with their lawyer, Timothy O'Brien, to discuss the case.

An FBI spokeswoman referred all calls to the U.S. Attorney's Office, where a spokeswoman declined to comment.

The lawsuit says that officers knew, or should have known, that Hunter no longer lived there. By executing an arrest warrant at a residence that wasn't Hunter's, they violated the family's Fourth Amendment right against unreasonable search and seizure, and their Fifth Amendment right to due process, the lawsuit says.

The officers were part of a local, state and federal task force rounding up more than three dozen people suspected of being members of the Manchester Original Gangsters street gang. Hunter was still at large at the end of the sweep, and court records show that she was living in Long Beach, Calif., at the time. She returned to Pittsburgh when she heard she was wanted by the police.

She is charged with conspiracy and heroin trafficking and is free on a $25,000 unsecured bond.

Adams said he knew Hunter's family from when they lived in Manchester, but there was no other connection between them and no reason for police to believe that Hunter lived in the house.

Other than citations for traffic violations and scalping tickets without a permit, Adams has been a law-abiding citizen.

The incident destroyed his confidence in the police and his ability to sleep through the night, he said.

"They had guns on my wife, my babies. I'd like to know how they would feel -- the people in my house -- if that happened to them," he said.

Denise Adams, 58, said seeing the red dots from the officers' targeting lasers crawl across her children's faces also has cost her faith in law enforcement.

"I don't want to, but this was terrifying," she sobbed.

Duquesne University law professor Bruce Ledewitz said arrest warrants don't give police carte blanche to enter any building because they think a suspect is inside. Instead, such warrants only authorize police to go to the person's residence.

Police usually enjoy "qualified immunity" from lawsuits even when they make mistakes, as long as they were carrying out their duties responsibly, he said. Entering a residence without probable cause, however, would strip the immunity away from those officers.

University of Pittsburgh law professor David Harris said the family faces several obstacles in winning. In particular, he thought it would be tough for them to overcome the officer's qualified immunity because the Supreme Court has repeatedly raised the bar for suing police officers.

"Not only do they have to make a mistake, it has to have been particularly egregious," for them to lose immunity, he said. "They have to be violating a law that was absolutely crystal clear, and they have to have known it."



Read more: Bellevue family sues FBI over 'terrifying' raid - Pittsburgh Tribune-Review http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/pittsburgh/s_742235.html#ixzz1PY4sMjQJ


________________________ _____________________

And some of you wonder why many hate the police? 



No, we just wonder why a small percentage of you take relatively isolated incidents (10,000 search warrants a day are run throughout the nation, very few are like this) and try and paint a picture of a police state.

I too want police to do their due diligence when gathering information for search warrants. I think it should be a rare event that something like this happens. I know from experience that if you put the effort in, this should rarely happen. You can not avoid it completely because of various problems like people leaving vacating a house and the new occupants continue paying utilities without changing the names out of convenience. It's rare but it can happen. I think in EVERY case of a search warrant run on the wrong address that police must show they excercised due diligence and circumstances were highly unusual, or they lose in court.     


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 20, 2011, 08:46:06 AM
U.S. NEWS
JUNE 20, 2011.Police Scandals Hobble Prosecutors

Hundreds of Criminal Cases Dismissed in San Francisco Bay Area as Allegations of Law-Enforcement Corruption Persist.

By JUSTIN SCHECK




SAN FRANCISCO—Bay Area prosecutors have been forced to dismiss more than 800 criminal cases in the past year because of allegations of police corruption that include selling drug evidence, conducting unlawful searches and conspiring to get men drunk and then arrest them on drunk-driving charges.


San Francisco District Attorney George Gascon requested that the FBI examine arrests at low-income hotels

.The series of police scandals has taxed the budgets of the district-attorney and public-defender offices, and prompted two federal investigations.

In some cases, defense lawyers found that security-camera videos in residential hotels—showing police making drug arrests—apparently contradicted the officers' sworn statements.

In one case, a suspect was seen in a video of his arrest wearing a different jacket from the one the officers entered into evidence.

Last year, the San Francisco district attorney dismissed about 700 criminal cases after a drug crime-lab worker was accused of stealing evidence. This year, since March, the district attorney has dismissed about 125 cases, mainly felony drug prosecutions.

East of San Francisco in Contra Costa County, the state-run County Narcotics Enforcement Team, or CNET, has been caught up in a widening scandal resulting in the dismissal of 15 cases, according to the county district attorney. The district attorney said earlier this month he was turning the investigation of the cases over to the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

The CNET chief, two police officers and a private investigator are charged with a range of gun, drug and other crimes, including selling methamphetamine, steroids and marijuana stolen from evidence lockers.

The four also are charged with masterminding a plot to get men drunk and then arrest them for driving while intoxicated.

In November of last year, prosecutors charge, the private investigator "arranged to have a female decoy" invite men to a bar. The men were going through divorce proceedings in which he represented their wives.

After the man and the decoy drank for a while, one of the police officers would call another and ask him to stop the man's car on suspicion of drunk driving, the indictment says.

Lawyers for the CNET chief and the investigator say their clients admit some wrongdoing and are cooperating with investigators.

Peter Keane, a professor at Golden Gate University School of Law in San Francisco and a former defense lawyer, said the scandals raise questions about whether there is a "systemic problem" in the oversight of state and local narcotics investigators in California. Mr. Keane blames the problem partly on the intrusive nature of drug investigations.

"So much of making drug arrests involves going into somebody's house," he said.

Lt. Troy Dangerfield, a spokesman for the San Francisco Police Department, said no officers have been charged with misconduct, though the investigation is ongoing. He said several officers have been reassigned from undercover duty, and that some dismissed cases could be refiled if officers were cleared of wrongdoing.

George Gascon, appointed district attorney in San Francisco this year after serving as San Francisco police chief since 2009, said the scandals have resulted in his office "having to spend a lot of resources to make decisions on mistakes and bad practices in the past."

Defense lawyers have credited Mr. Gascon with trying to investigate, rather than conceal, the problems. At his request, the FBI is examining arrests made at low-income hotels. The investigation is looking into "allegations that SFPD officers were conducting unauthorized searches," an FBI spokeswoman said.

San Francisco Public Defender Jeff Adachi has held news conferences to show videos that raise questions about police searches. Mr. Adachi said his office is reviewing about 7,000 cases for possible police wrongdoing.

Jesus Reyes, 65 years old, a resident of the Julian House hotel in San Francisco, was arrested Feb. 25 on drug charges. ,In an interview and in court filings Mr. Reyes said that police searched him and a van he was in without his consent.

They took his keys, entered his apartment and searched it, he said.

"I asked them if they had a search warrant, and they just ignored me," Mr. Reyes said.

During the apartment search, police confiscated a laptop computer and camera, and found a small amount of methamphetamine. They arrested Mr. Reyes and jailed him for three days, Mr. Reyes said.

The laptop and camera weren't recorded in the police report as confiscated evidence.

In May, a judge dismissed the case after Mr. Reyes's lawyer obtained a video showing officers entering the room and leaving with bags apparently containing the belongings that were later not booked as evidence.

The police declined to comment on the case.

Write to Justin Scheck at justin.scheck@wsj.com


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304563104576363522151841968.html?mod=WSJ_WSJ_US_News_5








Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on June 20, 2011, 09:50:24 AM
No, we just wonder why a small percentage of you take relatively isolated incidents (10,000 search warrants a day are run throughout the nation, very few are like this) and try and paint a picture of a police state.
 

Agree.



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 20, 2011, 10:03:11 AM
Lawmaker Seeks More Transparency for SWAT Team Raids
Capitol Confidential ^ | 6/20/2011 | Ken Braun


________________________ ________________________ ______



The part-time mayor of an upper middle class Maryland suburb of Washington, D.C. found himself and his mother-in-law handcuffed in his own home by a Prince George’s County SWAT team one July evening three years ago. His two black Labrador retrievers had been shot dead, the second one from behind as it fled the officers who had broken into the home in a ‘no knock’ raid as part of a drug investigation. Five months later, Berwyn Heights Mayor Cheye Calvo and his entire family had been cleared of all wrongdoing and suspicion, but the county police were still refusing to provide documentation to justify why they had violently entered the home of an innocent man.

One expert analyst on SWAT raids says the use of them for non-violent offenders, let alone innocent targets, has become alarmingly routine, yet way under the public radar because most of the targets are not as high profile as Calvo. A Michigan lawmaker will soon introduce legislation aimed at giving citizens a better look at what their militarily-equipped police teams are up to.


(Excerpt) Read more at michigancapitolconfident ial.com ...



________________

Its always an isolated incident when dogs get capped.   ::)  ::)  ::)

I wish the law allowed for the homeowner to personally sue these scumbags into poverty.    Maybe they would think twice before playing rambo with peoples' property. 



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 22, 2011, 06:43:56 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7ZkFZkejv8


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 22, 2011, 08:34:01 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7ZkFZkejv8

The cop was very professional in his demeanor, I'll give him that. The yard issue is irrelevant though it weighs in the citizens favor. For example, I can chase a bad guy, tackle him in your front yard, and be handcuffing him. You can be in your own yard, looking over my shoulder, and I would be right in telling you to get back if I felt exposed to you while performing my job of arresting the individual.

IN this particular case, reviewing the tape, arrest would not be the likely result in most cases. If an officer felt concerned they may ask to frisk the person for weapons before continuing if the person refused to leave the immediate area of the activity. They may position an officer in an "overwatch" position to keep the bystanders in observation. In this case the citizen was in error by refusing the officers request, but the officer was also in error by resorting to arrest to solve the safety concern.

   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 22, 2011, 11:48:33 AM
Yes, but the citizen didn't remove anyone's liberty... The officer did.

which is within an officers pervue. 2 things at work here... Had the citizen obeyed the cops reasonable request of vacating the yard into her home until the situation was over then it ends there. Or, had the officer, rather than using his authority to arrest when a lawful order is disobeyed, resolved the safety concern in another fashion, it would have been fine.

 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 22, 2011, 11:54:23 AM
which is within an officers pervue. 2 things at work here... Had the citizen obeyed the cops reasonable request of vacating the yard into her home until the situation was over then it ends there. Or, had the officer, rather than using his authority to arrest when a lawful order is disobeyed, resolved the safety concern in another fashion, it would have been fine.

 


Screw that.   Its her home, not the officers' fiefdom to bark orders to people.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 22, 2011, 12:22:55 PM
Exactly... This is her yard... She has to pay the taxes on that property, not him. He is the one trespassing.

Its cops like that I wish got KTFO'd about 50 times over until hey got an attitude adjustment towards those who pay their damn salary, pensions, and benes.

 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 22, 2011, 01:07:39 PM

Screw that.   Its her home, not the officers' fiefdom to bark orders to people.   

I didn't hear any barking.. and a yard is considered under the law in this circumstance as a public place.She was not in her home.  She could not stand in HER yard naked, or waving an assault rifle, nor blaring loud music. There are limitations to her rights in her yard. While I don't agree in THIS case an arrest was necessary to resolve the concerns of the officer, just being in her yard does not negate culpability 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on June 22, 2011, 01:28:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7ZkFZkejv8

Oh brother.  What an idiot.  She was asking for a confrontation.  She needed to stay outside for "fresh air," while taping some guy being arrested?   ::)  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: sync pulse on June 22, 2011, 03:35:37 PM
Why would anyone object to being photographed?...If you are doing nothing wrong,...why be afraid?...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Hugo Chavez on June 22, 2011, 04:31:42 PM
lol @ Beach Bum...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 23, 2011, 08:17:54 AM
Why would anyone object to being photographed?...If you are doing nothing wrong,...why be afraid?...
This would apply to red light cameras, police cameras in high crime areas... and yes I agree, why would anyone object. I didn't hear the officer though mention anything about objecting to being filmed. It was her close proximity presence while they conducted their business that concerned him. While I didn't share his concern from my computer desk, I don't think it was the filming


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 23, 2011, 08:46:51 AM
What the cop shuld have said is


"Mam - here is what is happeneing, we arrested the suspect for ____, he is being brought to the station for booking, this isthe procedure, I dont mind you filming us, but can you please just step back a bit as there may be some hostilities if the suspect tries to escape or flee" 



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 23, 2011, 09:10:24 AM
I disagree on all fronts... I don't think you should just go around randomly filming people in general, however, as the police state grows, the premise of having footage of the police during the course of their work is probably one of the more invaluable things the citizens have in their arsenal.

I think that filming me at the stop light and everything else is pretty much fascist... but I'm John Q. Public and I don't get to take away liberty without any repercussion like the police do. If I take away your freedom wrongly, even if I believe it's for the best of intentions, I get charged with a crime... I believe it's a felony as well.

Cops just get to say "Oh, I'm sorry, and move on."

So the idea of filming the public and filming a public servant (That is what you are right?) is not the same.

No, I agree it is not the same. What I do should be available to the public. I have nothing to hide. If you can safely film me, have at it. Hell, I'm usually filming myself with video in the car and a mic on my shirt.

As far as filming you running a red light...the camera only snaps shots of people busting a red light. When you bust that red light you could and often do kill me and others.. so if you're feelings are hurt getting your picture taken running a red light..tough sh*t ya know?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 23, 2011, 09:12:05 AM
What the cop shuld have said is


"Mam - here is what is happeneing, we arrested the suspect for ____, he is being brought to the station for booking, this isthe procedure, I dont mind you filming us, but can you please just step back a bit as there may be some hostilities if the suspect tries to escape or flee" 



and she would have said "why? I'm just getting fresh air, I'm in my yard, "

Then what would you say?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 23, 2011, 09:15:56 AM
and she would have said "why? I'm just getting fresh air, I'm in my yard, "

Then what would you say?

Maybe, maybe not.   But when you start the conversation in an adversarial way, like most cops i have dealt with do, you get a predictable reaction from the person paying your salary and pension.   




Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 23, 2011, 09:38:33 AM
Maybe, maybe not.   But when you start the conversation in an adversarial way, like most cops i have dealt with do, you get a predictable reaction from the person paying your salary and pension.   




Trust me, she would have said it.. he was professional and he asked her nicely. She was going to be stubborn no matter what he said... so then what?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: sync pulse on June 23, 2011, 10:47:18 AM
When the social neocons put up red light and survellience cameras they use the trite saying,.."If you are doing nothing wrong..." to justify it.  Turnabout is fairplay...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 23, 2011, 11:24:50 AM
When the social neocons put up red light and survellience cameras they use the trite saying,.."If you are doing nothing wrong..." to justify it.  Turnabout is fairplay...

agreed...whatever neocons are....


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 23, 2011, 11:33:27 AM
Aren't you basically stating that you absolutely knew what was going to happen?

isn't that perpetuating the us vs. them mentality?

Not at all... I've been in similar situations over the course of a couple decades hundreds of times.. there are always exceptions but it's been my experience that people like that, and when I say "like that..' I mean those who for whatever reason have decided they are going to ignore the cop and continue doing what they want, rarely change course until arrest is upon them or has occurred. Often times new cops will spend ungodly amounts of time trying to talk to these people mistakenly thinking "if only I explain my side, they will understand and comply" not realizing some people aren't rational.

For example, 25 yrs ago I may have spent a lot of time trying to explain to you why there is a difference with an officer in uniform at a burglary call and a citizen with a gun.. But my experience told me it would be a complete waste of time.

Often times we get 1 yr law students, or someone who listened to the wrong person and they mistakenly feel they have the right to do something when in fact they don't. Rather than do as they are ask, then complain later, they feel compelled to stay their ground, regardless of what the cop says. For example, we are called to a home because the wife is being beat by her husband. Wife is bleeding and crying. Officers can see and hear her while they are standing on the porch, with the husband standing in the doorway saying "You can't come in, I know my rights, you don't have a search warrant!"

Well, he is right, we don't have a search warrant. He is wrong in that we don't need one in this case.. But you can't tell him that...he knows the law. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on June 23, 2011, 12:48:10 PM
When the social neocons put up red light and survellience cameras they use the trite saying,.."If you are doing nothing wrong..." to justify it.  Turnabout is fairplay...

How do you define a social neocon?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: sync pulse on June 23, 2011, 01:01:58 PM
Some one who is in favor of routine survellience of daily life fits here,...red light cameras, video survellience of public places, prohibition of marijuana, prohibition of Docotor's supervision of steroid cycles...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on June 23, 2011, 01:05:17 PM
Some one who is in favor of routine survellience of daily life fits here,...red light cameras, video survellience of public places, prohibition of marijuana, prohibition of Docotor's supervision of steroid cycles...

Thanks.  Never heard that before. 

We chased the van cams out of here. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 24, 2011, 09:13:08 AM
Doesn't seem like a good comparison, only because of course it's visible by the officers at the door.
The comparison is good because in both cases the person was wrong about their knowledge of existing laws

None the less, I don't agree with the "I know this is what would happen." in any scenario... people can, will, and have done what you don't expect.

You are kind of right. She could have responded by pulling out an uzi or hand grenade or she could have went inside when the officer again explained the situation. If you recall, he had already explained his position. But based on similar situations in the past, the outcome can be predicted with reasonable accuracy. 

This is why people feel they can convict people based on belief and not fact... Innocent people going to jail.

Sorry, you lost me there..



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 24, 2011, 09:26:42 AM


Funny you have not commented on my ATF thread.   



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 24, 2011, 09:27:55 AM
Funny you have not commented on my ATF thread.   



haven't read it. If I read every thread you posted I'd be unemployed  :)


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 24, 2011, 09:54:01 AM
Funny you have not commented on my ATF thread.   



I looked over the thread, watched a couple of the videos, what do you want to know?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 24, 2011, 09:57:08 AM
I looked over the thread, watched a couple of the videos, what do you want to know?

What is your thought on that and do you accept that the fact that stories like this greatly undermine any respect whatsoever for law enforcement?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 24, 2011, 10:15:09 AM
What is your thought on that and do you accept that the fact that stories like this greatly undermine any respect whatsoever for law enforcement?

Based on just what I read on your thread it looks like someone probably had good intentions, i.e. they are going to get the guns regardless of whether we arrest someone for buying 5 or not, so lets let them operate, follow the supply line, then bring down the big fish.

This method is used daily when dealing with drugs and suppliers. Why arrest for a kilo when you can arrest for 2,000 kilos.

In hindsight and possibly forsight it wasn't well thought out. Were basic questions asked? How many guns do we plan on letting go through? How long will we continue this operation? What is the realistic outcome of taking this risk? What is the best case scenario, what is the worst case scenario?

As far as undermining respect for law enforcement and calling for all agencies to be done away with as you have called for, I think that;

1. Government agencies are accountable for their actions and should be held accountable. That doesn't happen all that often and its a shame. but most americans are sheeple and "scandals" are forgotten when the next season of American Idol airs. When errors like this are made, heads should roll if the facts support it.

2. The ATF and many Govt Agencies do an overall great job and the call for doing away with them is ridiculous and ill informed.     


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 24, 2011, 10:16:42 AM
Based on just what I read on your thread it looks like someone probably had good intentions, i.e. they are going to get the guns regardless of whether we arrest someone for buying 5 or not, so lets let them operate, follow the supply line, then bring down the big fish.

This method is used daily when dealing with drugs and suppliers. Why arrest for a kilo when you can arrest for 2,000 kilos.

In hindsight and possibly forsight it wasn't well thought out. Were basic questions asked? How many guns do we plan on letting go through? How long will we continue this operation? What is the realistic outcome of taking this risk? What is the best case scenario, what is the worst case scenario?

As far as undermining respect for law enforcement and calling for all agencies to be done away with as you have called for, I think that;

1. Government agencies are accountable for their actions and should be held accountable. That doesn't happen all that often and its a shame. but most americans are sheeple and "scandals" are forgotten when the next season of American Idol airs. When errors like this are made, heads should roll if the facts support it.

2. The ATF and many Govt Agencies do an overall great job and the call for doing away with them is ridiculous and ill informed.     




Are you kidding?  Good intentions?   Fucking really?   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 24, 2011, 10:25:14 AM



Are you kidding?  Good intentions?   Fucking really?    

Absolutley.

Fact... Drug cartels are getting drugs through no matter what we do
Fact... Drug cartels are getting access to guns no matter what we do

Letting some drugs through to catch bigger dealers is a tactic used every day. A cop will not arrest for a small amount, follow the trail up the ladder and when they have the bigger fish, they make the arrest. The impact is far greater than if they arrested the street dealer.

They were applying that tactic to guns. I don't think their reasoning was "Hey lets let them get a lot of guns so they can kill our agents". It was, lets allow the small fry to buy guns for the cartels and stop the flow at the top......

I could be wrong and it could be a huge dirty ugly conspiracy to destroy america as we know it...

But it's more likely a bad idea with good intentions that went really bad  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 24, 2011, 10:29:11 AM
Good intentions my ass.   GMAFB.   Good intentions.   ::)  ::) 

Yeah, give a 5 y/o a loaded gun hoping the kid will learn gun safety and after it blows its head off tell the judge and jury - "but we didnt mean for him to kill himself"


Fucking please.  these disgusting pieces of trash with badges were playing russian roulette with others lives to fozster their own sick agenda and now people are dead.   Fuck that good intentions. 

 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 24, 2011, 10:29:58 AM
Good intentions my ass.   GMAFB.   Good intentions.   ::)  ::) 

Yeah, give a 5 y/o a loaded gun hoping the kid will learn gun safety and after it blows its head off tell the judge and jury - "but we didnt mean for him to kill himself"


Fucking please.  these disgusting pieces of trash with badges were playing russian roulette with others lives to fozster their own sick agenda and now people are dead.   Fuck that good intentions. 

 

Ok I'll play... what were their intentions?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 24, 2011, 11:11:27 AM

Play CBS News Video
(CBS News)  Congress holds its first hearings Monday on the "gunwalker scandal" that CBS News first uncovered back in February.


Officials at the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) encouraged gun shops to sell thousands of assault rifles and other weapons destined for Mexican drug cartels.



On "The Early Show" Friday, CBS News Investigative Correspondent Sharyl Attkisson reported those who defend the strategy say their goal was to let the little fish go -- to get the big fish. But insiders say, in the process, lives were needlessly put in danger.


Attkisson initially broke the story for CBS News.


Last June, about nine months into the ATF operation known as "Fast and Furious," suspects had "purchased 1,608 firearms for over $1 million in cash transactions at various Phoenix-area gun shops," according to internal documents obtained by CBS News. The documents indicate ATF already knew that 179 of those very weapons had turned up at crime scenes in Mexico, and 130 in the U.S.

Issa subpoenas ATF over gunwalking allegations
ATF agent cooperates in gunwalking investigation
Agent: I was ordered to let U.S. guns into Mexico


Yet, ATF allowed some of the same suspects -- accused of being middlemen for Mexican drug cartels -- to continue to buy and transfer assault weapons. Sometimes, agents say, they videotaped the buys, but didn't interdict the guns.


Documents indicate intentions were good. The idea, according to those documents, was to "allow the transfer of firearms" to pinpoint big cartel crooks rather than the small-time traffickers supplying them.


Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/10/earlyshow/main20070475.shtml#ixzz1QDq9f0Qv


Looky what I found.....


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 24, 2011, 11:15:18 AM
ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING? 

Damn bro - you are seriously a boot licker for the govt.  The DOJ has not complied with Issa' requests and has sent only a few docs and even at that were HIGHLY redacted. 

Go read through my thread.  Damn bro - seriously - wake the hell up. 

2009 Obama and Hillary were slamming gun dealers and sayng guns wer flooding the border WHILE THEY WERE FORCING THE FUCKING DEALERS TO DO THIS AGAINST THEIR WISHES! 

Guess why? 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 24, 2011, 11:35:10 AM
Traffic tickets to cost Tennesseans more
WSVM ^ | 06/24/2011 | WSVM


________________________ __________________


NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -Tennesseans could be charged up to nearly $70 more for traffic tickets under a new state law that takes effect next month and is intended to fund crime lab services for law enforcement agencies.


The law that takes effect July 1 adds $13.75 onto each traffic violation, and motorists can be cited for as many as five violations on a single ticket.


The fee applies only to people who chose not to contest their tickets in court and pay the fine before a court date or a compliance date.


Proceeds will help offset the costs of the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation's crime lab services.


But motorists complain the extra charge is too much on top of already expensive fines.


Sen. Randy McNally, a Republican from Oak Ridge, sponsored the legislation, which he said was necessary to prevent massive TBI layoffs or increased costs to local law enforcement agencies that need the lab services to investigate crimes.


(Excerpt) Read more at wsmv.com ...



________________________ ______________

And what happens if everyone drives as they say and no tickets get written?  Oh wait - its abut safety, not revenue . . . . . . .


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 24, 2011, 11:37:30 AM
Traffic tickets to cost Tennesseans more
WSVM ^ | 06/24/2011 | WSVM


________________________ __________________


NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) -Tennesseans could be charged up to nearly $70 more for traffic tickets under a new state law that takes effect next month and is intended to fund crime lab services for law enforcement agencies.


The law that takes effect July 1 adds $13.75 onto each traffic violation, and motorists can be cited for as many as five violations on a single ticket.


The fee applies only to people who chose not to contest their tickets in court and pay the fine before a court date or a compliance date.


Proceeds will help offset the costs of the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation's crime lab services.


But motorists complain the extra charge is too much on top of already expensive fines.


Sen. Randy McNally, a Republican from Oak Ridge, sponsored the legislation, which he said was necessary to prevent massive TBI layoffs or increased costs to local law enforcement agencies that need the lab services to investigate crimes.


(Excerpt) Read more at wsmv.com ...



________________________ ______________

And what happens if everyone drives as they say and no tickets get written?  Oh wait - its abut safety, not revenue . . . . . . .

Then drive legally, no problem...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on June 24, 2011, 11:41:19 AM
I got pulled over the other day for an expired safety sticker.  My wife's car.   >:(  Got off with a warning.  Cop was friendly.  I was friendly.  Not a big deal. 

Now, if I had been pointing a video camera at him as he approached my car, I bet I would have gotten a ticket. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 24, 2011, 11:42:02 AM
Did you read the article?   The funding for the lab is based on anticipated revenue by writing a certain amount of tickets.  and you wonder why people feel this whole thing is a sham?    


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 24, 2011, 11:43:27 AM
I got pulled over the other day for an expired safety sticker.  My wife's car.   >:(  Got off with a warning.  Cop was friendly.  I was friendly.  Not a big deal. 

Now, if I had been pointing a video camera at him as he approached my car, I bet I would have gotten a ticket. 

Beach - do you wear a high and tight? 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on June 24, 2011, 11:47:00 AM
Beach - do you wear a high and tight? 

Nope.  Why?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 24, 2011, 11:56:35 AM
Did you read the article?   The funding for the lab is based on anticipated revenue by writing a certain amount of tickets.  and you wonder why people feel this whole thing is a sham?    

Listen up...


I can go back and review tickets written from 2008, 2009, 2010 and within the ballpark, predict tickets written for 2011. People violate traffic laws. You can count on it. Wish they didn't but they do. Cops write tickets for those violations on occassion... no mystical conspiracy here..   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on June 24, 2011, 01:20:51 PM



Documents indicate intentions were good. The idea, according to those documents, was to "allow the transfer of firearms" to pinpoint big cartel crooks rather than the small-time traffickers supplying them.


Read more: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/06/10/earlyshow/main20070475.shtml#ixzz1QDq9f0Qv


Looky what I found.....



And?  Their intentions are completely immaterial.  If a guy's wife goes into labor on the freeway and rushes to get her to the hospital and kills people because of his rush, his intentions are good, but he's going to prison.

These guys should get exactly the same thing.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 24, 2011, 05:08:47 PM
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Supreme Court puts extra burden on crime labs
The Los Angeles Times ^ | June 24, 2011 | David G. Savage
Posted on June 24, 2011 8:04:06 PM EDT by Lurking Libertarian

The Supreme Court on Thursday put an extra burden on crime labs, declaring that a man accused of drunken driving has the right to demand that a lab technician testify in person about a blood test that showed he was impaired.

The 5-4 decision was the latest to extend the reach of a defendant's constitutional right "to be confronted with the witnesses against him." And once again, the outcome was driven by an unusual coalition of conservative and liberal justices.

Two years ago, the court said a crime lab technician was a witness for the prosecution and, therefore, must be available to testify. In Thursday's decision, the court went a step further, saying it will not suffice to send any technician or lab analyst who can explain the testing. Rather, the prosecution must supply the same technician who conducted the blood test and signed to certify the result.

"We hold that surrogate testimony … does not meet the constitutional requirement," Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg wrote for the court majority, which also included Antonin Scalia, Clarence Thomas, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan. The Constitution does not permit shortcuts, the court said, and in many cases, a crime lab report is the prosecution's strongest evidence.

(Excerpt) Read more at latimes.com ...






Good decision. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 24, 2011, 06:18:36 PM


And?  Their intentions are completely immaterial.  If a guy's wife goes into labor on the freeway and rushes to get her to the hospital and kills people because of his rush, his intentions are good, but he's going to prison.

These guys should get exactly the same thing.

Intentions are taken into consideration in both cases. Called mitigating circumstances and used in court all the time


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 24, 2011, 06:38:15 PM
Intentions are taken into consideration in both cases. Called mitigating circumstances and used in court all the time

That is only sentencing.    Not in innocence or guilt.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 24, 2011, 08:36:15 PM
That is only sentencing.    Not in innocence or guilt.

During sentencing yes,

But during the initial phase of filing charges and during trial intentions are important. some crimes require culpable states of the mind, i.e. negligent, intentional, gross negligence, knowing, should have known, are some elements of an offense.

As someone argued it's only the results that matter. Not correct. If I intentionally murder you, it is a different charge than if I kill you through negligence (manslaughter). That is just one of several examples.     


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 25, 2011, 06:05:05 AM
Not in the course of another crime. If I kill someone in course of robbing a bank or stealing a car. Even of it's an accident. That's murder. No matter if you meant to do it or not.

That has nothing to do with what I was talking about


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Hugo Chavez on June 26, 2011, 01:29:16 AM
The cop was very professional in his demeanor, I'll give him that. The yard issue is irrelevant though it weighs in the citizens favor. For example, I can chase a bad guy, tackle him in your front yard, and be handcuffing him. You can be in your own yard, looking over my shoulder, and I would be right in telling you to get back if I felt exposed to you while performing my job of arresting the individual.
IN this particular case, reviewing the tape, arrest would not be the likely result in most cases. If an officer felt concerned they may ask to frisk the person for weapons before continuing if the person refused to leave the immediate area of the activity. They may position an officer in an "overwatch" position to keep the bystanders in observation. In this case the citizen was in error by refusing the officers request, but the officer was also in error by resorting to arrest to solve the safety concern.

I just listened to Ian Punnett on Coast to Coast AM tonight.  The entire show was devoted to this.  It was a really great show, several members of law enforcement called in from all over the country.  They had as a main guest, George DeAngelis, former assistant chief of police in El Paso, TX, and professor of criminology at Park University.  They covered this topic and a lot more around law enforcement.  It was a really great show.  Almost all of the cops seemed to agree that this cop went to far but there was also points made in favor of understanding what goes on at a scene...  If anyone wants to watch it, it'll probably be on youtube tomorrow, search it, it was good...





Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Hugo Chavez on June 26, 2011, 02:38:31 AM
here it is:  Good show....

(posted under FAIR USE for commentary and criticism)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZM5e_LNtvY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JyRj1HA4Mq4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dnx91il7-0E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY_wnTSwFZ4


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: roccoginge on June 26, 2011, 06:05:06 PM
There's a video on Alex Jones's site showing the Rochester police ticketing all the protestors for curb violation on all of their parked cars, pathetic.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 26, 2011, 06:16:30 PM
Not in the course of another crime. If I kill someone in course of robbing a bank or stealing a car. Even of it's an accident. That's murder. No matter if you meant to do it or not.

I think it is a separate issue. There is culpability dealing with what someone will be charged with, and at what level.

"Murder" is a generic term. There is negligent homicide, manslaughter, capital murder etc etc.

You statement is not correct as it stands. If I am stealing a car, and in the course of stealing a car, I accidentally run over a pedestrian while escaping and kill them, intentions come into play. It may be a homicide, but it may be classed as a 2nd degree felony rather than 1st degree.

There are exceptions to that rule too. If I kill someone I kidnapped then it is 1st degree.. if I kill more than one person in a single episode it would be 1st, if I kill a police officer, or elderly or handicapped etc etc.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on June 27, 2011, 01:03:23 PM
Intentions are taken into consideration in both cases. Called mitigating circumstances and used in court all the time


Not the type of intent we were talking about.  You're referring to the degree of responsibility, I was under the impression we were talking about responsibility period.

That may not have been what you meant, but when, right off the bat, you start talking about their intentions, it certainly comes across that you were trying to dismiss any responsibility they may bear for their actions.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 28, 2011, 06:26:26 AM

Not the type of intent we were talking about.  You're referring to the degree of responsibility, I was under the impression we were talking about responsibility period.

That may not have been what you meant, but when, right off the bat, you start talking about their intentions, it certainly comes across that you were trying to dismiss any responsibility they may bear for their actions.

Skip, I wasn't talking in the legal sense in the beginning if I recall correctly. It was a choice between the ATF either purposefully orchestrating the plan knowing agents would die, knowing they wouldn't be able to successfully impact gunrunning and with a deeper motive to somehow further their cause to remove guns from american citizens homes or;

They hatched the plan with the intentions of tracing the weapons to the big fish and making a positive impact.

It was my opinion and according to at least one article authors opinion after reviewing documents, that they had good intentions, but they were wrong.

I think it matters what their intention was, though they should still be held accountable.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Option D on June 28, 2011, 09:15:22 AM
Happened last year around the same day

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-chipotle-deputy-shooting,0,6720848.story

this is sad.. right by my house.. like i walk to this chiptole all the time


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 28, 2011, 09:43:19 AM
Happened last year around the same day

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-chipotle-deputy-shooting,0,6720848.story

this is sad.. right by my house.. like i walk to this chiptole all the time

what's this world coming to?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on June 28, 2011, 05:14:03 PM
Happened last year around the same day

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-chipotle-deputy-shooting,0,6720848.story

this is sad.. right by my house.. like i walk to this chiptole all the time


There's not enough in the story.  Was the guy trying to get away or made an innocent mistake and a corrupt cop shot him?



Chipotle got good food?


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 28, 2011, 08:41:12 PM
beach, can you merge this with my police state thread? 


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: roccoginge on June 28, 2011, 10:54:01 PM
Do you maybe think that sometimes people become cops to rape the system and help criminals?  The movie "Departed" is serious.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on June 29, 2011, 10:17:11 AM

There's not enough in the story.  Was the guy trying to get away or made an innocent mistake and a corrupt cop shot him?



Chipotle got good food?

Yes, the story is a shell at this point and way to early to determine anything with that info.

Chipotle will make you a burrito the size of an infant with 2000 calories, or you can go the bowl route and eat pretty healthy there. Food is not bad.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on June 29, 2011, 01:33:46 PM
Chipotle will make you a burrito the size of an infant with 2000 calories, or you can go the bowl route and eat pretty healthy there. Food is not bad.



Hmmm...certainly will have to try that some day.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on June 29, 2011, 03:01:39 PM
Yeah.  Chipotle is good. 


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Dos Equis on June 29, 2011, 03:22:54 PM
beach, can you merge this with my police state thread? 

Done.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 29, 2011, 04:15:23 PM
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Army, Navy Photographer Accused Of Passport Fraud
News4Jax ^ | Monday, June 27, 2011
Posted on June 29, 2011 7:59:21 PM EDT by nickcarraway

Elisha Dawkins graduated in August from nursing school in Jacksonville.

He put on hold his plans for taking the board exams because the Navy called him into action as a photographer.

Dawkins photographed happenings at Guantanamo Bay, an act that's evidence he's a trusted member of the military with top secret clearance.

Now, Dawkins, a Navy reservist and decorated Army combat photographer who served in Iraq, is in jail, charged with passport fraud. He's facing 10 years in prison for what could be a simple misunderstanding.

"Suddenly, he's picked up and thrown in jail? Then it's time for this senator to start asking questions," U.S. Sen. Bill Nelson., D-Fla., said.

Nelson has questions echoed by Dawkins' friends, including Dianne Rinehardt.

Elisha Dawkins served with the Army in Iraq.

"It's a travesty, and we're trying to stop it," Rinehardt said.

Rinehardt went through nursing school with Dawkins and is a veteran herself. She's upset about the trouble her friend is in. In sharing his story with other vets, Rinehardt said that lots of people who don't know Dawkins can't believe it. "We're all appalled that, how can you serve this country and be more dedicated to the ideals of this country, and serve this country and then be told, 'Guess what, you made a little clerical error. You're out of here.' And that's a travesty," Rinehardt said. A federal indictment states that Dawkins started to fill out a passport application in 2004, didn't complete it, then filled out a new application two years later. On that new application, he checked a box "no" for the question, "Have you ever applied before?" according to the indictment.

Dawkins got the passport, but three months ago, the government issued a warrant for his arrest. He was taking photos for the Navy at the time.

When Dawkins got back to the U.S. in April, he was arrested about a week later and has been in jail for two months since.

"The state department is implying there's something more. I want to know, and that's why I've written them," Nelson said. "We've sent emails through our standard home, family email chains throughout the country," Rinehardt said. "The more attention we bring to this, the more people will see this as a disservice."

Dawkins' attorney calls the case an "absurd prosecution," saying that filling out a "no" box "did not merit criminal charges."

Because the trial is scheduled for next month, if Dawkins is still in jail at that point, he will insist on going to trial.

A pretrial hearing Tuesday in Miami is the next step.







Truly freaking nuts. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 30, 2011, 02:11:30 PM
Government sues Apollo 14 astronaut over lunar camera (Edgar Mitchell)
Yahoo ^ | 6/30/11 | Terry Baynes - Reuters


________________________ ________________________ _______________________



NEW YORK (Reuters) - The U.S. government has sued a former NASA astronaut to recover a camera used to explore the moon's surface during the 1971 Apollo 14 mission after seeing it slated for sale in a New York auction.

The lawsuit, filed in Miami federal court on Wednesday, accuses Edgar Mitchell of illegally possessing the camera and attempting to sell it for profit.

In March, NASA learned that the British auction house Bonhams was planning to sell the camera at an upcoming Space History Sale, according to the suit.

The item was labeled "Movie Camera from the Lunar Surface" and billed as one of two cameras from the Apollo 14's lunar module Antares. The lot description said the item came "directly from the collection" of pilot Edgar Mitchell and had a pre-sale estimate of $60,000 to $80,000, the suit said.

Mitchell was a lunar module pilot on Apollo 14, which launched its nine-day mission in 1971 under the command of Alan Shepard. The sixth person to walk on the moon, Mitchell is now retired and runs a website selling his autographed picture.

He has made headlines in the past for his stated belief in the existence of extraterrestrial life.

"All equipment and property used during NASA operations remains the property of NASA unless explicitly released or transferred to another party," the government suit said, adding NASA had no record of the camera being given to Mitchell.

The suit said the government had made repeated requests to Mitchell and his lawyer to return the camera but received no response.


(Excerpt) Read more at news.yahoo.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on June 30, 2011, 02:15:33 PM
Collars for Dollars; How the drug war sacrifices real policing for easy arrests.
Reason Magazine ^ | 06/30/2011 | Peter Moskos


________________________ ____________________



When I was a police officer in Baltimore, one sergeant would sometimes motivate his troops in the middle of a shift change by joyfully shouting, “All right, you maggots! Let’s lock people up! They don’t pay you to stand around. I want production! I want lockups!” He said this while standing in front of a small sign he most likely authored: “Unlike the citizens of the Eastern District, you are required to work for your government check.”

In the police world, there are good arrests and better arrests, but there is no such thing as a bad arrest. In recent years, measures of “productivity” have achieved an almost totemic significance. And because they are so easy to count, arrests have come to outweigh more important but harder-to-quantify variables such as crimes prevented, fights mitigated, or public fears assuaged.

There’s an argument that putting pressure on rank-and-file officers to make lots of arrests is a good thing. After all, we pay police to arrest criminals. But there’s a difference between quantity and quality. Quantity is easy to influence, and the rank and file can easily increase their output of discretionary arrests for minor offenses like loitering, disorderly conduct, and possession of marijuana. They are also influenced by what is known in New York as “collars for dollars”: Arrest numbers are influenced by the incentive of overtime pay for finishing up paperwork and appearing in court.

Police would love to arrest only “real” criminals, but that isn’t easy. It’s difficult to find a good criminal. There’s never a felon around when you need one. Fishing for low-level drug arrests is a far easier way to generate overtime.

When I worked in Baltimore, officers would pull up on a drug corner and stop the slowest addict walking away. While conducting a perfectly legal “Terry Frisk”—a cursory search nominally conducted for officer safety—cops would feel some drugs in a pocket. That easy arrest and lockup likely meant two hours of overtime pay.

In some cities, like New York, it’s trickier. Overtime for court testimony is harder to get, and the state’s highest court has ruled—precisely to prevent the Baltimore-style approach—that feeling drugs during a Terry Frisk does not allow an officer to search that pocket and remove those drugs. The court reasoned that the drugs are not a threat to the officer’s safety, and safety is the only justification for these sorts of frisks.

In New York state, small-scale possession of marijuana is virtually decriminalized. It’s not even an arrestable offense. But police in need of overtime are nothing if not wily. So a group of officers might approach a man in a high-crime neighborhood and, in no uncertain terms, “ask” him to empty his pockets. Fearful, resigned, or simply taking the path of least resistance, the suspect might do so, and in the process he might reveal a small “dime bag” of weed. While possessing that amount of marijuana is not an arrestable offense, it becomes one as soon as the drug is placed in “public view.”

Supporters sometimes say these small-scale drug arrests are part of a “broken windows” approach to preventing crime. This tactic comes from an influential 1982 Atlantic magazine article by George Kelling and James Q. Wilson that combined the 19th century police theories of Robert Peel with the 20th century urban philosophy of Jane Jacobs. The idea is that if you take care of the little things—disorder, quality-of-life issues, and public fear—then the big things like robbery and murder will take care of themselves.

Since Police Commissioner William Bratton implemented a broken windows policing strategy in the early 1990s, homicides in New York dropped more than 80 percent. But the crime didn’t drop because police were cracking down on drug users; overall, illegal drug use is as high as ever. When the murder rate was falling fastest in the 1990s, police never arrested more than a few thousand people per year for public-view marijuana. Only after the crime drop slowed did police turn to small-scale drug arrests to meet their “productivity goals.” It’s as if real criminals became too difficult to find, and the addiction to overtime pay remained strong as ever.

Last year in New York City, 50,300 people—mostly young black and Hispanic men—were arrested solely for misdemeanor “public-view” possession of marijuana. It’s true that some may have been up to no good. And some might have been walking down the street proudly smoking a spliff in front of the police. But nobody really believes this accounts for most of those 50,300 lockups. Many were people just going about their business, intending to smoke later, in private, in the very manner the law was intended to decriminalize.

“What is it with the drugs?” a man once asked me while I was policing a 7-11 for coffee, “When there’s shootin’ or fightin’, you don’t seem to care! But when there’s drugs, you come right away.” It’s a fair question to ask. Why do we do it? What do we gain? Especially when we know drug arrests are expensive and turn a lot of otherwise law-abiding citizens into cop-hating criminals?

The drug war, because it can’t be won, encourages outward signs of police effectiveness at the expense of good old-fashioned policing. Hard-working cops, especially those who ask for little more than a middle-class income in return for the dangerous work they do, turn to drug arrests to make ends meet. The Baltimore sergeant was right: Police officers do need to work for their government check. It’s a shame “collars for dollars” has become the easiest way to do it.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on June 30, 2011, 06:18:14 PM
You know... There is are areas that cops are just to chicken shit to go.

I was talking to a local dispatcher the other day and they actually told me that there are areas where if there's a call for a shooting, the cops just ignore it and wait for the EMTs to show up first.

Talk about a bunch of punk ass bitches.

Of course, according to the anonymous cop on here, I'm lying, but whatever.


I don't know about ignoring it, but my brother has let me know that there are plenty of cops who cower when shit goes down.  Not sure if I hold it against them or not.  None of us really knows how we're going to react when bullets are flying at us (fortunately I've never been in such a situation).

But, if someone is in that situation and can't handle it, they need to get rid of them pronto.  And as I noted before, the police repeatedly fail to police themselves.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 01, 2011, 07:20:54 AM

I don't know about ignoring it, but my brother has let me know that there are plenty of cops who cower when shit goes down.  Not sure if I hold it against them or not.  None of us really knows how we're going to react when bullets are flying at us (fortunately I've never been in such a situation).

But, if someone is in that situation and can't handle it, they need to get rid of them pronto.  And as I noted before, the police repeatedly fail to police themselves.

Again, I can only speak for the police agencies I have worked for..

Over the 29 yrs I've been in the business, there have been ocassions when an officer failed to act due to being afraid. In every case I have been aware of or a witness to, that officer was immediatly dealt with. In most cases, cowardice is identified when an officer is new and on probation. Because usually, if you are in a department of any size, it doesn't take long before you are facing a hairy situation. Those officers are at will employees, on probation and are typically fired if they demonstrate they are scared and won't act. Nothing wrong with being scared, I've been scared many times, but you cannot fail to respond because you are scared.

So I am surprised your brother knows "plenty of cops" who cower when the shit hits the fan. I know of zero that are currently employed in this department who do. And tomorrow if one is identified, he/she will be terminated as they always are.

And Tu... your dispatcher mislead you. I don't think you are lying about this thing, but just fed some questionable information. EMS will NOT respond to a shooting if police have not arrived and deemed the scene safe to enter. So we don't have an option of waiting for EMS to go first. They will "stage" down the street and wait for us to give them the all clear. That is their protocol.  Now if there is information there are no suspects on scene like a self inflicted wound, well that's different.

I've been to plenty of shootings. I've been to plenty of shootings in really bad areas. It's not something cops look forward to because you have million things going through your head as you are driving there.  It's usually always chaotic, you don't know if the shooter(s) still there. If there is a crowd, you figure everyone is armed because you just don't know but there is little you can do about it. You have to give first aid to the victim and hope you have back up to watch the crowd. You have to gather suspect info and get that out over the air, find out who saw what and seperate the witnesses, establish a crime scene perimeter and make a lot of notifications. So its not an easy call but I've never seen or heard of any officers here shunning that call or any call because it's dangerous..

But I will tell you this... if there is a call of a large fight....cops usually don't kill themselves getting to those. The rookies will want to rush in, but then you have 20 people trading punches and it's impossible to control. The veterans know from experience most of them have the stamina of a 70 yr old and usually the fight runs it's course. You bump the siren as you get close and it helps break them up and scatter them. When we get there it's over with some bumps and bruises... If the info changes and weapons are involved, we do get there as soon as possible. but fist fights... not so much.     


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people.
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 01, 2011, 07:33:32 AM
Do you maybe think that sometimes people become cops to rape the system and help criminals?  The movie "Departed" is serious.

I do. I don't know if that is their original intent, but over the last 20 yrs we have examples of cops who were criminals. New Orleans had it's share at one time and I recall San Antonio busted some cops who were providing security for a drug cartel to transport drugs and money. I can't say if that was their intention from day 1 but who knows..

I think screening applicants and doing thorough background checks is paramount to avoiding those issues. Also having a management that makes it clear lying, or any criminal activity is grounds for termination in every case.

Then they need to go further and terminate any officers who are shown to have covered for them. We are pretty strict here. You can screw up and make an honest mistake, get days off and move on with your career. But if you lie during the investigation, and it is uncovered, you are fired. If your buddy lies for you, he is fired. If you stop a drunk cop and don't arrest him, and it is discovered, you are fired. The cop who was drunk gets discipline but he is not fired. Any cop who knew about it and didn't report is is fired.

I think in that atmosphere, it would be hard to function as a criminal cop. That is the atmosphere we have here. You can survive screwing up in most cases, or mistakes of the heart, you can't survive criminal acts or lying. You can't survive covering for your buddy.  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Option D on July 01, 2011, 08:07:38 AM

There's not enough in the story.  Was the guy trying to get away or made an innocent mistake and a corrupt cop shot him?



Chipotle got good food?

http://laist.com/2010/07/13/questions_arise_about_police_shooti.php

A deputy-involved shooting that left an 18-year-old dead has some questioning whether law enforcement should have used deadly force. On June 24th, plainsclothes officers from a multi-jurisdiction task force were meeting in a Studio City parking lot when they noticed a man apparently casing cars, including one of police's unmarked ones.
A task force member approached the man, who became uncooperative, prompting a struggle. A sheriff's deputy who came over in aid and drew his gun ordering the suspect to the ground was then hit by another vehicle. The driver, 18-year-old Granada Hills honors student Zac Champommier, was fatally shot.
The man being detained was 29-year-old Douglas Ryan Oeters. He told the LA Times that although Champommier hit a sheriff's deputy, he was driving slowly and didn't post a threat.
"They did not show any badge before rushing at me," Oeters explained of the officers, who more resembled red necks than police. "I am sure Zac was scared just like me and left the parking lot due to a panic they started for no reason. This has caused an innocent 18-year-old to be shot after he reacted to the group surrounding me."
Sheriff's officials told the Times that "the two officers who fired their weapons did not have time to identify themselves to" Zac. They also said they clearly identified themselves to Oeters.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Option D on July 01, 2011, 08:10:17 AM
Just type in google. Chipotle shooting studio city


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 01, 2011, 10:59:55 AM
So I should believe the anonymous police officer over the dispatcher who I know and trust 100 percent?

apparently...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: tu_holmes on July 01, 2011, 11:06:54 AM
apparently...

Sorry... I don't trust the government.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 01, 2011, 11:10:51 AM
http://laist.com/2010/07/13/questions_arise_about_police_shooti.php

A deputy-involved shooting that left an 18-year-old dead has some questioning whether law enforcement should have used deadly force. On June 24th, plainsclothes officers from a multi-jurisdiction task force were meeting in a Studio City parking lot when they noticed a man apparently casing cars, including one of police's unmarked ones.
A task force member approached the man, who became uncooperative, prompting a struggle. A sheriff's deputy who came over in aid and drew his gun ordering the suspect to the ground was then hit by another vehicle. The driver, 18-year-old Granada Hills honors student Zac Champommier, was fatally shot.
The man being detained was 29-year-old Douglas Ryan Oeters. He told the LA Times that although Champommier hit a sheriff's deputy, he was driving slowly and didn't post a threat.
"They did not show any badge before rushing at me," Oeters explained of the officers, who more resembled red necks than police. "I am sure Zac was scared just like me and left the parking lot due to a panic they started for no reason. This has caused an innocent 18-year-old to be shot after he reacted to the group surrounding me."
Sheriff's officials told the Times that "the two officers who fired their weapons did not have time to identify themselves to" Zac. They also said they clearly identified themselves to Oeters.

I wonder who wrote the article..it's "pose" a threat not "post" a threat..

I would prefer to wait until the investigation is complete to comment but I will comment on the article itself. I've read a few articles written by otherwise good folks that dealt with incidents I had direct knowledge of and they got a lot of things wrong or wrote the article with a slant to sell papers.

First, there are very few police shootings where "some people" haven't wondered if it was a good shooting. I know of one where the officer shot 1 time at a person who was kneeling over a victim with a buther knife poised to stab the victim in the chest. The cop had yelled to drop the knife as the suspect was approaching the victim, waited until the last moment to take the shot and killed the suspect just before they could stab the victim.

You would think..ok, they don't get any better than that...... but you would be amazed at the outcry from the minority community over the shooting. So knowing there is rarely a police shooting where some people don't bitch, that first line in the article is a given..

Then Oeters says Zac (the deceased) must have been scared and left the parking lot due to the panic.... but also says that when Zac struck the deputy he was driving slow and didn't "post" a threat. Seems a little contradictory in nature.

So I still think at this point, it's best to wait till the smoke clears.      


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 01, 2011, 11:11:26 AM
Sorry... I don't trust the government.

irrelevant to our conversation at this point


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 01, 2011, 11:21:06 AM
So I should believe the anonymous police officer over the dispatcher who I know and trust 100 percent?

1. If your dispatcher is so sure cops are ignoring shots fired calls and letting EMS go in first then ;

A. Why doesn't she/he report the behavior so it can be addressed?
B. Why isn't EMT raising hell because they have to go into a hot area because police aren't responding?

Dispatchers have limited insight because they dispatch. How is he/she arriving at the conclusion they purposely duck those calls?

I'm not a dispatcher, I'm the guy who actually goes to the calls. Believe what you want..

   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 01, 2011, 12:42:39 PM
Hardly... You hate the idea that your amazing government paycheck profession might actually have faults in it.

I don't hate the idea, I hate that it does have faults. I believe I acknowledge that and have spoken about some of them. I call a duck a duck

It's commonly understood that these calls go unanswered and no one cares because it's the "ghetto".

The EMTs avoid the places too when they can... or just wait until daylight or what have you.
If that is happening, that's sad. Wouldn't and doesn't happen here. 



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on July 01, 2011, 01:29:23 PM
Again, I can only speak for the police agencies I have worked for..

Over the 29 yrs I've been in the business, there have been ocassions when an officer failed to act due to being afraid. In every case I have been aware of or a witness to, that officer was immediatly dealt with. In most cases, cowardice is identified when an officer is new and on probation. Because usually, if you are in a department of any size, it doesn't take long before you are facing a hairy situation. Those officers are at will employees, on probation and are typically fired if they demonstrate they are scared and won't act. Nothing wrong with being scared, I've been scared many times, but you cannot fail to respond because you are scared.

So I am surprised your brother knows "plenty of cops" who cower when the shit hits the fan. I know of zero that are currently employed in this department who do. And tomorrow if one is identified, he/she will be terminated as they always are.

And Tu... your dispatcher mislead you. I don't think you are lying about this thing, but just fed some questionable information. EMS will NOT respond to a shooting if police have not arrived and deemed the scene safe to enter. So we don't have an option of waiting for EMS to go first. They will "stage" down the street and wait for us to give them the all clear. That is their protocol.  Now if there is information there are no suspects on scene like a self inflicted wound, well that's different.

I've been to plenty of shootings. I've been to plenty of shootings in really bad areas. It's not something cops look forward to because you have million things going through your head as you are driving there.  It's usually always chaotic, you don't know if the shooter(s) still there. If there is a crowd, you figure everyone is armed because you just don't know but there is little you can do about it. You have to give first aid to the victim and hope you have back up to watch the crowd. You have to gather suspect info and get that out over the air, find out who saw what and seperate the witnesses, establish a crime scene perimeter and make a lot of notifications. So its not an easy call but I've never seen or heard of any officers here shunning that call or any call because it's dangerous..

But I will tell you this... if there is a call of a large fight....cops usually don't kill themselves getting to those. The rookies will want to rush in, but then you have 20 people trading punches and it's impossible to control. The veterans know from experience most of them have the stamina of a 70 yr old and usually the fight runs it's course. You bump the siren as you get close and it helps break them up and scatter them. When we get there it's over with some bumps and bruises... If the info changes and weapons are involved, we do get there as soon as possible. but fist fights... not so much.     



haha, please.

Dude what police agency do you work for?  It's amazing the utopia going on.  Bad officers are dealt with swiftly and firmly.  Few, if any cops cower.  Piss poor behavior is identified early and dealt with.  Professionalism rules the day.  There is no blue wall.  Cops who cover for each other are harshly dealt with.

lol, I've never even heard of such a close to perfect police department much less encountered one.

Like I said, I don't have a bad view of you guys having a brother as cop.  I don't even have a problem with you all giving each other passes for speeding and other minor traffic violations.  But some of this is just nuts.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 01, 2011, 01:43:48 PM


haha, please.

Dude what police agency do you work for?  It's amazing the utopia going on.  Bad officers are dealt with swiftly and firmly.  Few, if any cops cower.  Piss poor behavior is identified early and dealt with.  Professionalism rules the day.  There is no blue wall.  Cops who cover for each other are harshly dealt with.

lol, I've never even heard of such a close to perfect police department much less encountered one.

Like I said, I don't have a bad view of you guys having a brother as cop.  I don't even have a problem with you all giving each other passes for speeding and other minor traffic violations.  But some of this is just nuts.

Austin Police Department

It's all accurate information. The blue wall for all intents and purposes came crashing down about 8-10 yrs ago. Not only the holding officers accountable, but with advances of video cameras in every car, some officer now carrying body cameras, there is little left to the imagination.

They pay us very well here, you will never hear a cop complaining about the pay. And for that pay, they expect a lot. It's a pain sometimes because on ocassion the citizens expect too much, but I get it.... we say we are professional, we expect to be paid as professional, it's only fair the public expects us to be professional.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 01, 2011, 01:45:08 PM


haha, please.

Dude what police agency do you work for?  It's amazing the utopia going on.  Bad officers are dealt with swiftly and firmly.  Few, if any cops cower.  Piss poor behavior is identified early and dealt with.  Professionalism rules the day.  There is no blue wall.  Cops who cover for each other are harshly dealt with.

lol, I've never even heard of such a close to perfect police department much less encountered one.

Like I said, I don't have a bad view of you guys having a brother as cop.  I don't even have a problem with you all giving each other passes for speeding and other minor traffic violations.  But some of this is just nuts.

and kudos to your brother. My brother is a retired cop. I kinda owe him for leading me down this path. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 01, 2011, 06:35:32 PM
Exactly Skip... It's complete crap.

From Youtube below.

Not exactly the perfect department he makes Austin out to be.

(Note... I'm not saying the guy below is guilty or innocent, just that the same shit happens everywhere)



Dec 8, 2007 - Gary Griffin can now return to the force after he won an appeal after losing his job as a police officer with the Austin TX police department due to excessive force. He had been an officer for 10 years previous. It is not known when he will be back on the streets.

A man was restrained and beaten by a Austin TX police officer last year and now officer Gary Griffin can return back to the force after losing his job. Griffin appealed the decision by acting chief Cathy Ellison of the Austin police department.

The chief made the decision to kick Griffin off of the force for six months after reviewing a police dash cam video that showed Griffin using excessive force.

It took a whole year but Griffin has finally won the appeal and he is returning back to work and that is not going over well with the family of Joseph Cruz. Cruz is the man in the video who was beaten.

Cruz was sleeping at a bus stop when Griffin tried to wake him up and that is when things got out of hand.

Before Griffin returns to the force he will have to see a psychiatrist.

The Austin City Council on Thursday approved a $55,000 settlement for the family of a mentally ill man who was beaten by an Austin police officer.

According to court documents, Griffin responded to a "person down" call in July 2006 and found Cruz, who has schizophrenia, asleep on a bus stop bench. When Cruz did not wake up, Griffin repeatedly hit him with his billy club and then punched Cruz in the face, breaking his nose, the documents said.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7nEf2563Fs

a great example of what I was talking about. The officers actions were out of line. Another officer brought it to the attention of the supervisor. The supervisor reported it and the officer was terminated after an investigation. The officer excercised his right to appeal and against our wishes he was reinstated by the arbitrator. The arbitrator is independant and the department is bound by civil service law to abide by the ruling. He has since bneen removed from patrol


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on July 02, 2011, 05:34:26 AM
a great example of what I was talking about. The officers actions were out of line. Another officer brought it to the attention of the supervisor. The supervisor reported it and the officer was terminated after an investigation. The officer excercised his right to appeal and against our wishes he was reinstated by the arbitrator. The arbitrator is independant and the department is bound by civil service law to abide by the ruling. He has since bneen removed from patrol



No, this is actually a great example of what I said earlier in thread:




It doesn't matter, you could have 100 checks and balances.  The only thing the public cares about is the end result, and in the end, the police do a horrible job of policing themselves.  Rarely are cops terminated. 

I'm not exempt by the way.  As a public employee myself, we also do a horrible job of weeding out the incompetent lackies.  Just trying to get one out is a bureaucratic nightmare.  And the public does take notice.



That's why federal employees also get a bad rep.  Nobody gives a shit about us crying about the bureacracy.  The end result is we fail to police ourselves.  Laws, rules, policies, negotiated agreements all need to be changed so that we can weed out the bad apples.

Until then, they will continue to overshadow the rest.

My brothers in Dallas, not far from you.  Not buying the Blue Wall stuff for a minute.  8-10 years ago, you were all denying it existed.  Now it's well, it did exist but it's gone, haha.  Sorry, he's told me way, way too much.

When measured in the balance though, I think overall the police do a solid job.  A lot that needs work, but a lot of good stuff too that never gets noticed or appreciated.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 02, 2011, 07:13:11 AM
But the cops DID police themselves. The cops did everything they were supposed to when this was brought to light by another officer.

And my brother was Ft Worth. He would agree with you that Dallas isnt where Austin or Ft Worth is yet. But give it 10 more years. And the blue wall is gone here. There are just too many real world examples where cops have reported cops illegal or unprofessional behavior to think otherwise. And frankly, I don't miss it. I was never into the us vs them mentality


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 02, 2011, 08:47:38 AM
You make a lot of us vs. them statements in this thread.

I'm with Skip on this one.

Can you produce a couple us vs them statements I've made I would love to see some

 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Dos Equis on July 02, 2011, 11:10:18 AM
a great example of what I was talking about. The officers actions were out of line. Another officer brought it to the attention of the supervisor. The supervisor reported it and the officer was terminated after an investigation. The officer excercised his right to appeal and against our wishes he was reinstated by the arbitrator. The arbitrator is independant and the department is bound by civil service law to abide by the ruling. He has since bneen removed from patrol

Agree.  This is an example of cops policing themselves. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on July 05, 2011, 08:55:30 AM
But the cops DID police themselves. The cops did everything they were supposed to when this was brought to light by another officer.




Now it really seems that you are just being flat out dishonest.

3 supervisors got temp suspensions because they failed to acknowledge what this guy did was wrong.  Only ONE cop, (acting Chief Ellison), found the guys actions out of line and took action to remove him.

Further, he was represented by Stribling, an attorney for the police union!!  You don't get to argue the cops "did everything", when it's the cops' union representing the guy.

Finally, the arbitrator ruled that Austin PD (you know, the uber professional force) never gave the guy appropriate training in the use of excessive force and that's why he got his job back.

BTW, 3 supervisors supporting this guy = the blue wall.

So, one cop at the very top tried to do the right thing, 3 supervisors tried to cover for the guy, the department failed to correctly train the guy, and the police union argued and won on his behalf.  Sorry, but to any reasonably objective person - that's a failure to police yourselves.





Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 05, 2011, 09:23:04 AM


Now it really seems that you are just being flat out dishonest.

3 supervisors got temp suspensions because they failed to acknowledge what this guy did was wrong.  Only ONE cop, (acting Chief Ellison), found the guys actions out of line and took action to remove him.

Further, he was represented by Stribling, an attorney for the police union!!  You don't get to argue the cops "did everything", when it's the cops' union representing the guy.

Finally, the arbitrator ruled that Austin PD (you know, the uber professional force) never gave the guy appropriate training in the use of excessive force and that's why he got his job back.

BTW, 3 supervisors supporting this guy = the blue wall.

So, one cop at the very top tried to do the right thing, 3 supervisors tried to cover for the guy, the department failed to correctly train the guy, and the police union argued and won on his behalf.  Sorry, but to any reasonably objective person - that's a failure to police yourselves.





How did the cop at the top find out about it?

And as far as Stribling, he is a contract attorney for CLEAT which represents officers who are members of the Association. Any officer who is fired, or suspended for over 3 days has a right to an appeal. That's how it is set up with civil service. Most of the time the arbitrators ruling is correct, sometimes it is off in the administrations opinion. IN this case they obviously didn't agree with the arbitrator.

This incident was brought to the attention of I.A. by the supervisors. In this case, the supervisors (which included a Commander) were disciplined because they did not watch the entire tape which ran for an hour. They watched the incident itself just before and after and addressed the incident. What they missed was comments made by the officer to another officer that appeared on tape well after the incident happened that I.A. found. And honestly, it would have caught most supervisors because until that point it wasn't common practice to watch videos well past the incident.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on July 05, 2011, 10:09:43 AM


And as far as Stribling, he is a contract attorney for CLEAT which represents officers who are members of the Association. Any officer who is fired, or suspended for over 3 days has a right to an appeal. That's how it is set up with civil service. Most of the time the arbitrators ruling is correct, sometimes it is off in the administrations opinion. IN this case they obviously didn't agree with the arbitrator.

So?  Police officers collectively negotiate for, lobby, and benefit from union representation like this.  Just because it's codified doesn't mean a free pass.  Like I said earlier,
   "Nobody gives a shit about us crying about the bureacracy.  The end result is we fail to police ourselves.  Laws, rules, policies, negotiated agreements all need to be changed so that we can weed out the bad apples."

 


Quote
This incident was brought to the attention of I.A. by the supervisors.

That's your claim, for all we know the guy that took the beating filed a complaint that brought it to light.




Quote
In this case, the supervisors (which included a Commander) were disciplined because they did not watch the entire tape which ran for an hour. They watched the incident itself just before and after and addressed the incident. What they missed was comments made by the officer to another officer that appeared on tape well after the incident happened that I.A. found. And honestly, it would have caught most supervisors because until that point it wasn't common practice to watch videos well past the incident.



The facts released thus far don't support your claim.  They were suspended because they failed to acknowledge what this guy did was wrong - they covered for a corrupt cop.

"Ellison also handed three of Griffin's supervisors – Cpl. Andrew Haynes, Lt. Deborah Sawyer, and Cmdr. Michael Nyert – temporary suspensions for failing to conclude that Griffin's actions in arresting Cruz were out of line"

http://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2007-01-05/433594/


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 05, 2011, 11:24:41 AM
So?  Police officers collectively negotiate for, lobby, and benefit from union representation like this.  Just because it's codified doesn't mean a free pass.  Like I said earlier,
   "Nobody gives a shit about us crying about the bureacracy.  The end result is we fail to police ourselves.  Laws, rules, policies, negotiated agreements all need to be changed so that we can weed out the bad apples."

 


That's your claim, for all we know the guy that took the beating filed a complaint that brought it to light.






The facts released thus far don't support your claim.  They were suspended because they failed to acknowledge what this guy did was wrong - they covered for a corrupt cop.

"Ellison also handed three of Griffin's supervisors – Cpl. Andrew Haynes, Lt. Deborah Sawyer, and Cmdr. Michael Nyert – temporary suspensions for failing to conclude that Griffin's actions in arresting Cruz were out of line"

http://www.austinchronicle.com/news/2007-01-05/433594/

Sorry, but I've little confidence in the Austin Chronicle. Had my own experience with Jordan Smith where she had access to the truth, but chose to ignore it because she does not like cops and the truth didn't fit her story. The supervisors failed to review the entire tape and missed a comment by the officer. Otherwise, had 3 supervisors had no problem with the officers actions, the chief would have never known about it. And the citizen didn't complain.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 05, 2011, 12:48:58 PM
Upper East Side Woman, Darbe Pitofsky, Ticketed For Using City Trash Can
newyork.cbslocal.com ^ | 07-05-2011 | Staff


________________________ ________________________ ____________________-



An elderly Upper East Side woman claims a sanitation agent chased her, threatened her with arrest and slapped her with a ticket for putting day-old newspapers in a city trash can.

Darbe Pitofsky, 83, said she was on her way for a cup of coffee around 6:30 a.m. on June 25 when she threw a brown bag filled with old papers in a city litter basket near her apartment on East 71st Street.

She said a sanitation worker quickly jumped out of his vehicle and demanded her information to write a summons.

“I froze,” Pitofsky told 1010 WINS’ Carol D’Auria. “He just frightened the hell out of me, scared me to death, I was terrified.”

She said the worker demanded a form of identification and threatened to “put her away” if she didn’t comply.

Pitofsky said it took the worker 25 minutes to write the summons and when she complained that it would cost her $100, she said he threatened to make it $300.

A representative for the Sanitation Department said street baskets are for pedestrian use only but added Pitofsky can challenge the ticket if she thinks there has been a mistake.

Litter baskets across the city are marked with stickers that read “no household trash” or “no business trash,” along with a warning of a $100 fine for violation. The Sanitation Department has a platoon of enforcement agents tasked with enforcing litter basket laws. Their duties even include doing detective work on trash suspected of being illegally dumped.

Pitofsky says she has already filed a complaint.

Her story is similar to that of 80-year-old Delia Gluckin, who last December, was also fined $100 for “improper disposal” for throwing her newspaper in a trash can in Inwood.

Do you think the city’s enforcement of the rules are too harsh? Let us know below…


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on July 05, 2011, 12:57:57 PM
Sorry, but I've little confidence in the Austin Chronicle. Had my own experience with Jordan Smith where she had access to the truth, but chose to ignore it because she does not like cops and the truth didn't fit her story. The supervisors failed to review the entire tape and missed a comment by the officer. Otherwise, had 3 supervisors had no problem with the officers actions, the chief would have never known about it. And the citizen didn't complain.   



Bullshit.  More flat out lying from you.  The link below takes you to the memo written by acting Chief Ellison detailing all of the facts and why Commander Nyert was suspended.  The "full video review" is a minute fraction.

The Chief found out about this from the District Attorney's office who reviewed the tape and recommended an investigation be launched!!

Not to mention that the civil rights suit was also against the 3 supervisors - not the acting Chief.

And, when the corrupt cop Griffin sued for discrimination, he only named the acting Chief, not the 3 supervisors.

How much more evidence is needed?  They tried to cover for the guy.  You're trying to cover for them.

lol, dude, you're a walking case study of the blue wall.

http://home.kxan.com/news_PDFs/Nyert_memo.pdf 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 05, 2011, 01:13:04 PM


Bullshit.  More flat out lying from you.  The link below takes you to the memo written by acting Chief Ellison detailing all of the facts and why Commander Nyert was suspended.  The "full video review" is a minute fraction.

The Chief found out about this from the District Attorney's office who reviewed the tape and recommended an investigation be launched!!

Not to mention that the civil rights suit was also against the 3 supervisors - not the acting Chief.

And, when the corrupt cop Griffin sued for discrimination, he only named the acting Chief, not the 3 supervisors.

How much more evidence is needed?  They tried to cover for the guy.  You're trying to cover for them.

lol, dude, you're a walking case study of the blue wall.

http://home.kxan.com/news_PDFs/Nyert_memo.pdf 

Skip I read the letter and you are right! I was talking about an incident that happened 5 yrs ago from memory but I do recall the officer direct filed the case to avoid getting it reviewed. The officer not only charged the guy with Public Intoxication, but he added Assault on a Police officer or resisting arrest, I can't recall which charge but had he not done that he may have gotten away with it. Because he placed that bogus charge on the guy it was reviewed by the D.A. who raised the flag.

I'm no blue wall, I'm just old. I remember viewing the tape in a room full of officers. I was appauled by the officers actions and to me he was clearly using excessive force. I was surprised that a few officer looking at the same tape thought it was "borderline". I didn't think it was borderline at all and I was not happy with the arbitrators decision. Most of the force wasn't.

I recall his lawsuit against the Chief. She was the decision maker and therefore the only one he could sue. Again, I thought it was a baseless lawsuit and it was.

 



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 05, 2011, 01:17:02 PM
Haha.. It's "the liberal media".



Still waiting on those "us vs them" statements....


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on July 05, 2011, 02:12:19 PM
Skip I read the letter and you are right! I was talking about an incident that happened 5 yrs ago from memory but I do recall the officer direct filed the case to avoid getting it reviewed. The officer not only charged the guy with Public Intoxication, but he added Assault on a Police officer or resisting arrest, I can't recall which charge but had he not done that he may have gotten away with it. Because he placed that bogus charge on the guy it was reviewed by the D.A. who raised the flag.

I'm no blue wall, I'm just old. I remember viewing the tape in a room full of officers. I was appauled by the officers actions and to me he was clearly using excessive force. I was surprised that a few officer looking at the same tape thought it was "borderline". I didn't think it was borderline at all and I was not happy with the arbitrators decision. Most of the force wasn't.

I recall his lawsuit against the Chief. She was the decision maker and therefore the only one he could sue. Again, I thought it was a baseless lawsuit and it was.

 





That's fine, but in any event, we as public employees really need to help get some changes through so that dirtbags can be more easily dealt with.  Some people I've come across are so fucking lazy it would make a 3 toed sloth proud.

IMO, until we start truly removing red-tape and administrative crap and really start policing ourselves, the public image isn't likely to change anytime soon.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 05, 2011, 03:29:05 PM
No Tu, I didnt

Skip, here is the delimma. Without recourse, or arbitration, civil servants would not be able effectively enforce the law. Gave my wife a ticket? Your fired.. didn't vote for me for ____ your fired.  Small group of citizens don't like how you handled that call? Your fired...
 
So I think it IS important to have some protections in place like arbitration so that an officer who is disciplined has recourse to in theory make sure he or she got a fair shake. I have seen where a particular officer was fired and reinstated by an arbitrator 3 times before a firing that held up. It does make it harder to get rid of officers who might better serve another career. I've been very frustrated at times by an arbitrators ruling I understand why it's there.

I was involved in a case where a cadet was terminated for incompetence and safety issues. He was also dishonest. He sued because he said the department was biased against christians. It went to federal court and we won, but I could not believe with 6 inches of documentation and video of his incompetence we had to go through a week of court hearings in order to get rid of him. THats a rare case, but it happens.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 06, 2011, 01:27:20 PM
Teen faces prison after sex doll prank goes awry (Prosecutors gone wild, kid faces 8 years prison)
WSVM ^ | 07/06/2011 | AP News






INDIANAPOLIS (AP) - When 18-year-old Tyell Morton put a blow-up sex doll in a bathroom stall on the last day of school, he didn't expect school officials to call a bomb squad or that he'd be facing up to eight years in prison and a possible felony record.

The senior prank gone awry has raised questions of race, prosecutorial zeal and the post-Columbine mindset in a small Indiana town and around the country, The Indianapolis Star reported in its Tuesday editions.

Legal experts question the appropriateness of the charges against Morton, and law professor Jonathan Turley at George Washington University posed a wider question about Morton's case on his legal blog.

"The question is what type of society we are creating when our children have to fear that a prank (could) lead them to jail for almost a decade. What type of citizens are we creating who fear the arbitrary use of criminal charges by their government?"

(Excerpt) Read more at wsmv.com ...








Typical Nazi police state bs.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Option D on July 06, 2011, 01:30:06 PM
LMAO.. Thats fucked up.. blow up dall=bomb


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 06, 2011, 01:33:57 PM
City turning red-light cameras back on
http://blog.chron.com/houstonpolitics/2011/07/city-turns-red-light-cameras-back-on




The city of Houston will turn its red-light cameras back on today, Mayor Annise Parker announced after this morning’s City Council meeting.

According to a statement from the mayor’s office, tickets will be issued after a “short period of equipment testing.”

Houston voters approved a referendum to turn off the cameras in November, but a federal judge ruled last month that it had been improperly placed on the ballot, rendering the results invalid. As a result, the city faced a choice to turn the cameras back on or canceling its contract with American Traffic Solutions, which could cost the city $16 million.

At the same time, Parker said, the city seek permission for an appeal of the ruling by U.S. District Judge Lynn Hughes in attempt to honor the will of the voters.

Here is what the city filed with Hughes:




________________________ ________________________ _______

How would it cost the city 16 Million? 



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on July 06, 2011, 05:10:03 PM
No Tu, I didnt

Skip, here is the delimma. Without recourse, or arbitration, civil servants would not be able effectively enforce the law. Gave my wife a ticket? Your fired.. didn't vote for me for ____ your fired.  Small group of citizens don't like how you handled that call? Your fired...
 
So I think it IS important to have some protections in place like arbitration so that an officer who is disciplined has recourse to in theory make sure he or she got a fair shake. I have seen where a particular officer was fired and reinstated by an arbitrator 3 times before a firing that held up. It does make it harder to get rid of officers who might better serve another career. I've been very frustrated at times by an arbitrators ruling I understand why it's there.

I was involved in a case where a cadet was terminated for incompetence and safety issues. He was also dishonest. He sued because he said the department was biased against christians. It went to federal court and we won, but I could not believe with 6 inches of documentation and video of his incompetence we had to go through a week of court hearings in order to get rid of him. THats a rare case, but it happens.   


This is not an either/or issue.  There is a comfortable middle ground.  I'm just arguing, we haven't found it yet.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 07, 2011, 07:10:25 AM
Yes you did... However, you are so warped you don't even see it.

Anonymous cop says he's right and everyone else is wrong.

Oh well.

wow, you really explained it well and made your case... debate team experience Tu?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 07, 2011, 09:56:12 AM
Most cops don't do dick but pat themselves on the shoulder and cry a river why they are not paid 500k a year. 


I grew up with tons of cops, they are by far the worst of the lot.   Mostly overpaid bitches w badges who would be washing cars if they were not cops and will find any reason whatsoever to justify their rape of the taxpayer.     


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 07, 2011, 11:57:51 AM
Cop shoots, kills dog during Adams Morgan festival
TBD.com ^ | September 12, 2010 | TBD, ABC7





UPDATE 7:47 p.m. Sept. 13: The Washington Post has obtained the police report on the incident. It describes the dog as appearing "to be out of control" and says the dog "charged" at the officer before it was fatally shot.

10:16 p.m. Updated with a statement from Third District police that conflicts with the dog handler's spokesman's statement, and an e-mailed statement from the handler himself.

There's never a shortage of police officers at Adams Morgan Day, just in case someone gets out of hand. Today, that someone was a dog.

An officer with the D.C. police department shot and killed a dog — possibly a rottweiler or pit bull — outside The Brass Knob antique store at 2311 18th St. NW. The shooting followed an intense, two-minute scuffle between the dog and what witnesses describe as a "smaller" white dog.

In dispute of the what the dog's handler has said, police tonight released a statement saying the dog was out of control and also bit the handler. Here's the entire e-mail from Third District Capt. Aubrey P. Mongal:

Earlier this afternoon, during the Adams Morgan Day events, an MPD officer encountered a dog in the crowded pedestrian area that got out of the control of it’s handler. The dog attacked another dog and also bit it handler. The officer, after making several attempts to subdue the dog by training tactics, had to finally shoot one time to stop the dog.

On the contrary, says the handler, who only wants to be identified as Aaron. In an e-mail to TBD, Aaron said the apparent foster dog, Parrot, didn't bite anyone.

In my recollection and as the eyewitness accounts will coroborate, the dog was completely under my control when the k9 officer removed me. Parrot bit no human, the only blood he drew was when i thrust my hand into his mouth to get him off the other dog. The k9 officer's injury, which he showed me at the station after, was nothing more than a rope burn from Parrot's leash, suffered when the officer was throwing my dog down a flight of stairs.

 D.C. Police Chief Cathy Lanier, in an earlier response to an e-mail from advisory neighborhood commissioner and candidate for the Ward 1 D.C. Council seat Bryan Weaver, said three people, including a K9 officer, were bitten by the dog. Here's an excerpt of the e-mail:

I don't know all of the facts at this point so it is very difficult for me to comment beyond the facts that I have been given. All I know is that there is one dog who was attacked by the pit bull and 3 people, including a K9 officer, that were bitten by the pit bull.

Police sources had earlier told ABC 7 the officer who shot the dog was a canine handler who was experienced with dogs. He was trying to separate the dogs, and attempted to choke hold the larger dog. While he was trying that, the dog attempted to bite him or did bite him, and he threw him down the stairwell in an attempt to injure the dog. The dog charged the officer and the officer opened fire, the sources said.

An unidentified spokesperson for the dog's handler said the cop didn't try hard enough to subdue the dog.

In an e-mail to TBD, Weaver said the dog had seemed friendly at his booth at the festival just 15 minutes before the incident:

"Aaron is a good guy, he said he had the dog under control and the cop grabbed it from him and threw him down the well at [Marie] Reed and shot him. Dog was playing with kids at my booth 15 min earlier. Aaron is really shaken."

One witness, 46-year-old Harriet Winslow, said that at first, she saw the two dogs — the white-sandy pitbull-looking dog and a cute white fluffy lap dog — barking and fighting.

"Everybody glanced over and the owners of these dogs were frantically trying to pull them apart. We're all looking concerned. Suddenly, the owner of the pitbull was down on the ground trying to subdue his dog. He was really trying hard — I have to give him credit. He was on the ground wrapping his arms around the dog. I could see him down on the ground. I mean he was really trying."

After the two dogs were pulled apart, Winslow says she could see that the smaller dog was fine. But the dogs were still barking at each other.

Then a cop appeared.

"I glanced over again and I saw a very able bodied police officer fully a stride the dog — the cop straddling dog. The pitbull was still animated, still trying to get up. But this cop — I thought 'Wow this guy is good at this, he subdued a really angry dog.' Then I thought 'Good, this is now over.' Then I walk just five or 10 feet away and I hear a gun shot."

Before she heard the shot, she said she thought "the cop was totally in control. ... It's not something I would want to do. He really was on top of this dog."

Noah Siegel, who works at nearby Spaghetti Garden restaurant, says he saw "two or three cops" surrounding the dog. One of the officers, says Siegel, had the dog on a leash and attempted to drag it away from the commotion.

The dog began "trying to attack the cop," says Siegel. "Next thing I knew, they had it down there in the corner and I heard a shot and that was it," says Siegel, who was interviewed by ABC 7's Brianne Carter.

An onlooker who attempted to intervene in the dogfight sustained a scrape or two. "He's fine," reports ABC 7's Carter.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 07, 2011, 12:04:13 PM

I think your job is fascist and brings no real value to society at large.


I think your opinion is ridiculous on this point.... but you're welcome to it.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 07, 2011, 12:05:48 PM
Most cops don't do dick but pat themselves on the shoulder and cry a river why they are not paid 500k a year. 


I grew up with tons of cops, they are by far the worst of the lot.   Mostly overpaid bitches w badges who would be washing cars if they were not cops and will find any reason whatsoever to justify their rape of the taxpayer.     

Thanks for sharing your opinion of cops. Fortunately your opinion is in the small minority.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 07, 2011, 12:07:35 PM
Thanks for sharing your opinion of cops. Fortunately your opinion is in the small minority.

You know what they say about opinions.   ;D


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 07, 2011, 12:14:04 PM
Jailed for cashing Chase check at Chase bank
King 5 ^ | 07/07/2011 | King 5






AUBURN, Wash. - Buying his own home was a big accomplishment for construction worker, Ikenna Njoku, of Auburn. He’s only 28 years old. “I was really excited. For the first time, I actually got to buy a lawn mower, mow my lawn and everything,” said Njoku.

Njoku qualified for the first time home buyer rebate on his tax return.

"It was really important, I had a vehicle I was looking on paying off," said. Njoku. And it wasn’t just any vehicle. “It was a 2001 Infinity I-30, silver…just like my favorite car, “he said.

Njoku signed up to have the rebate deposited directly into his Chase Bank account. But when the IRS rebate arrived, there was a problem. Chase had closed Njoku’s account because of overdrawn checks in the past. The bank deducted $600 to cover what he owed them and mailed him a cashier’s check for the difference--$8,463.21.

But when Njoku showed up at the Chase branch near his house intending to cash the check, he was in for a nasty surprise.

The check had Njoku’s name and address on it and was issued by JP Morgan Chase. But the Chase Customer Banker who handles large checks at the Auburn branch was immediately suspicious.

“I was embarrassed,” Njoku said. “She asked me what I did for a living. Asked me where I got the check from, looked me up and down—like ‘you just bought a house in Auburn, really?’ She didn’t believe that,” he said.

The Customer Banker said the check looked fake, so she took it, along with Njoku’s driver license and credit card, and called Bank Support.

After waiting for about 15 minutes, Njoku said he got impatient and told Chase he was leaving to do an important errand. By the time he got back, the bank was closed. Njoku said he called customer service and asked them what he should do. He says they told him to go back to the bank the next day to get his money.

But when Njoku arrived, it wasn’t the money that was waiting for him.

“They just threw me in jail; they called the police and said this guy has a fraudulent check,” Njoku said.

Auburn police arrested him for forgery - a felony crime.

“I was like - you’re making a mistake, you’re making a mistake, don’t take me to jail, I got work tomorrow. I can’t afford to miss work,” he said.

Njoku was taken to jail on June 24, 2010, which was a Thursday. The next day, Chase Special Investigations, realized it was a mistake. The check was legitimate. The Investigator called Auburn Police and left a message with the detective handling the case, but it was her day off. So Njoku stayed in jail for the entire weekend. Finally, on Monday, he was released.

Auburn Police Commander Dave Colglazier said Chase could have done a lot more to let them know they’d locked up an innocent man.

“We do have a main line that comes into our front office,” he said. “There are ways to reach someone 24/7 at a police department.”

For Njoku, going to jail for five days meant a lot more than just losing his freedom. He said the entire time he was “just stressed out…trying to figure out what was going on with my vehicle. I love my vehicle,” he said.

Njoku’s car had been towed from the bank parking lot and his check seized as evidence.

“I had to wait a couple of weeks,” he said, “and my car got sold, auctioned off."

Njoku says he didn’t have the money to pay the impound fees and fines to get his car back before it was sold. He said he also lost his job because he didn’t show up for work while he was in jail.

After all of that, Njoku said he never heard a word from Chase.

“They haven’t even sent me a letter or apologized,” he said. “It’s been a year we’ve been trying to contact these guys.”

Finally, A Seattle attorney offered to help. Last week, Felix Luna sent Chase a scathing letter. Read the attorneys' letter to Chase

“It’s one thing to make a mistake,” Luna said. “It’s one thing to make multiple errors of judgment like Chase has made and then, once you realize that your error has caused such harm to somebody else, to just ignore it for a year. I think he deserved better. I think all their customers do.”

Like Njoku, KING 5 had a difficult time getting answers from Chase. A week after first contacting them, they sent a two line e-mail.

"We received the letter and are reviewing the situation. We'll be reaching out to the customer," wrote Darcy Donoahoe-Wilmot, from Chase Media Relations.

Njoku said that even after he got out of jail, he said was confused and upset. "For a month, two months, I was just down and depressed," he said.

He’s still happy he bought his house, but sad that his experience with his own bank was so humiliating.

“They treated me like a criminal,” he said.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 07, 2011, 07:48:16 PM
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New Bill Prevents Cops from Visually Judging Speed (OH)
Fox8News ^ | 7/7/11
Posted on July 7, 2011 11:15:33 PM EDT by EBH

AKRON, Ohio— State lawmakers have passed a bill forbidding law enforcement officers from 'guesstimating' the speed of a moving vehicle.

The law was changed after a Summit County man was ticketed on Route 21 by a policeman who visually determined how fast he was driving. Last year, he fought the ticket all the way to the Ohio Supreme Court and lost. But his attorney worked with legislators who recently re-wrote the law.

"I knew it would probably upset a few, but not to the level that it did," said Attorney John Kim, from Akron. Kim represented the defendant for more than two-years and he's thrilled the issue has been resolved. "It all begins with principle and looking my client directly in the eyes, he was absolutely adamant that he was not guilty of speeding," said Kim.

State Representative Barbara Sears, R-Lucas County, worked to get the measure passed. "I took the cause up, just because, to me it didn't seem appropriate, it seemed like we certainly have the ability to have a better, more concrete way of measuring speed and that seemed like the best way to do it," said Rep. Sears.

Bath resident Jonathan Emerson isn't comfortable with the idea that a police officer could make a visual determination of speed. "It seems unrealistic to think that a police officer would be able to judge within five miles an hour," said Emerson.

(Excerpt) Read more at fox8.com ...

TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; US: Ohio; Click to Add Topic
KEYWORDS: Click to Add Keyword
 
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Yay!!!!
1 posted on July 7, 2011 11:15:39 PM EDT by EBH
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2 posted on July 7, 2011 11:16:48 PM EDT by EBH ( Whether you eat your bread or see it vanish into a looter's stomach, is an absolute.)


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 07, 2011, 07:50:11 PM
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TSA employee arrested after theft string
7 News ^ | July 7, 2011
Posted on July 7, 2011 10:44:19 PM EDT by BulletBobCo

FORT LAUDERDALE-HOLLYWOOD INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT, Fla. (WSVN) -- Police have arrested a TSA employee after he is responsible for a string of thefts over the past months.

Thirty-year-old Nelson Santiago was arrested Thursday after stealing electronics from passengers checked luggage and then sell them online. "He had this down to a science. He'd take an item then he would photograph it with his cell phone, post it on Craigslist and most often it was sold by the time his shift had ended," said Broward Sheriff's Office Dani Moschella.

According to Broward Sheriff's Office, Santiago was allegedly caught by a Continental Airlines employee slipping an iPad out of a suitcase and into his pants.

BSO said the scam when on for six months and the sale of the stolen items added up to $50,000. "He stole most of the electronic equipment. A lot of iPads, computers, some small video cameras, a GPS device," said Moschella.

Rosanne Ambrico is a frequent travel and is in shock with the news. "It's a TSA worker. They are screened, they go through background checks and obviously he should have been cleared but I don't know what happen,"

Santiago has been charged with grand theft. He has been a TSA officer since January 2009 but no longer works with the agency.

TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Front Page News; News/Current Events; US: Florida; Click to Add Topic
KEYWORDS: tsa; Click to Add Keyword

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1 posted on July 7, 2011 10:44:22 PM EDT by BulletBobCo


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 07, 2011, 09:09:34 PM
Child pornography found on Assistant U.S. Attorney’s computer
The Daily Caller ^ | 7 Jul 2011 | Caroline May
Posted on July 7, 2011 6:22:41 PM EDT by mandaladon

Iowa Republican Sen. Chuck Grassley sent a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder Thursday requesting an explanation as to why the Justice Department declined to file charges against a federal prosecutor with child pornography found on his work computer.

The finding against the Assistant United States Attorney (AUSA) was made by the Justice Department’s Office of the Inspector General (OIG).

According to the Inspector General’s report, the AUSA admitted to spending a significant amount of time each day viewing porn at work.

“The OIG conducted an investigation concerning allegations that an AUSA was using his government computer to view inappropriate material on his government computer,” the Grassley letter quoted from the OIG report. “The investigation determined that the AUSA routinely viewed adult content during official duty hours, and that there was at least one image of child pornography recovered on the AUSA’s government computer. The AUSA acknowledged that he had spent a significant amount of time each day viewing pornography.”

Grassley further questioned why the department kept employing the individual for at least two months following the report; what types of cases this AUSA prosecuted; the status of the individual’s pension; and what types of Internet filters the Department now uses.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: whork25 on July 08, 2011, 01:21:39 AM
I think your opinion is ridiculous on this point.... but you're welcome to it.

I share his opinion


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: whork25 on July 08, 2011, 01:22:16 AM
Thanks for sharing your opinion of cops. Fortunately your opinion is in the small minority.

Not that small i support it to for 70% of the cops out there its spot on


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 08, 2011, 10:27:24 AM
BSO: TSA Worker Steals iPad, Electronics From Luggage
Baggage Screener Accused Of Stealing Electronics, Selling Them Online

POSTED: Thursday, July 7, 2011
UPDATED: 10:21 am EDT July 8, 2011


 
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. -- A Transportation Security Administration worker is accused of stealing from the luggage of travelers at Fort Lauderdale - Hollywood International Airport Monday.

Broward Sheriff's Deputies said a Continental Airlines worker saw Nelson Santiago, 30, slip an iPad out of a suitcase and into his pants.

 Video


That worker reported the theft to his supervisor and Santiago was arrested.

Deputies said Santiago is responsible for a string of thefts over the past six months. They said he told detectives that he stole computers, GPS devices and video cameras from luggage he was screening.

He then allegedly took pictures of the stolen goods with his cell phone, and posted them for sale online.

BSO said the items would often sell by the time Santiago's shift ended.

Detectives estimate Santiago stole about $50,000 worth of electronics. So far, he was charged with two counts of grand theft and has been released on bond.

Detectives are trying to locate possible victims, though most will never recover their property.

Santiago had worked as a TSA officer since January 2009, but no longer works with the agency.

Other News: Photos: The Many Faces Of Casey Anthony

Copyright 2011 by Post-Newsweek Stations. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 09, 2011, 06:44:56 PM
Thursday, July 7th, 2011


Oak Park, Michigan:

Their front yard was torn up after replacing a sewer line, so instead of replacing the dirt with grass, one Oak Park woman put in a vegetable garden and now the city is seeing green.

The list goes on: fresh basil, cabbage, carrots, tomatoes, cumbers and more all filling five large planter boxes that fill the Bass family’s front yard.

Julie Bass says, “We thought we’re minding our own business, doing something not ostentatious and certainly not obnoxious or nothing that is a blight on the neighborhood, so we didn’t think people would care very much.”

But some cared very much and called the city. The city then sent out code enforcement.

“They warned us at first that we had to move the vegetables from the front, that no vegetables were allowed in the front yard. We didn’t move them because we didn’t think we were doing anything wrong, even according to city code we didn’t think we were doing anything wrong. So they ticketed us and charged me with a misdemeanor,” Bass said . . .

City code says that all unpaved portions of the site shall be planted with grass or ground cover or shrubbery or other suitable live plant material. Tomatoes, peppers and cucumbers are what Basses see as suitable.

However, Oak Park’s Planning and Technology Director Kevin Rulkowski says the city disagrees. He says, “If you look at the dictionary, suitable means common. You can look all throughout the city and you’ll never find another vegetable garden that consumes the entire front yard.”

So what is suitable? From another local news report:

 . . .  we asked Rulkowski why it’s not suitable.

“If you look at the definition of what suitable is in Webster’s dictionary, it will say common. So, if you look around and you look in any other community, what’s common to a front yard is a nice, grass yard with beautiful trees and bushes and flowers,” he said.

God forbid your yard doesn’t include beautiful trees, bushes and flowers. It’s your job, Oak Park citizens, to give Kevin Rulkowski pretty things to look at. According to Bass’s blog, she’s demanding her right to a jury trial. So the city plans to throw the book at her.

our attorney spoke to the prosecutor today. (for the record, my crush on him is totally finished after today.)

his position: they are going to take this all the way.

officially, this means i am facing 93 days in jail if they win.

no joke.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: whork25 on July 10, 2011, 04:09:22 AM
Bump.... I understand Agnostic may have missed it the first time while he was out saving the citizens of Austin from themselves.

Probably out with some collegues shooting dogs or some people who pose no risk at all but somehow Agnostic felt "threatened"

Funny how these trained professionals feels threatened when they can get away with shooting something

Weird they never get threatened by someone who fires back

Fucking cowards


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 10, 2011, 01:43:00 PM
Officials identified 1 out of every 17 Denver police officers as having serious discipline issues
Pajamas Media ^ | 0710/2011 | Pajamas Media
Posted on July 10, 2011 5:16:02 PM EDT by The Magical Mischief Tour

“City officials have identified one out of every 17 Denver police officers as having discipline issues serious enough that their courtroom testimony may be suspect.”

Denver’s Police Department has been stupidly run and marginally corrupt — not as bad as Chicago perhaps — as long as I can remember, so much so that the city more or less has a budget item in the millions of dollars every year for settlements with people unjustifiably killed or wounded by police. (After a real surge in those cases, the City of Denver hired a new Director of Public Safety who has been firing some bad eggs … so of course now the police union is lobbying to fire him.) In this case, the Denver PD is required to notify defense attorneys of any possibly important facts; when they have a cop who is one of these, the Denver PD sends a notice, quote:

“The District Attorney has received notice that this officer has been subject to an administrative finding that may or may not prove relevant if he or she testifies in a criminal matter. Information regarding this administrative proceeding should be obtained through the Denver Police Department’s Civil Liabilities Bureau.”

When the defense attorneys try to find out what the issue is, they’re often told those are personnel records, and thus cannot be released.

(Excerpt) Read more at pajamasmedia.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 10, 2011, 01:44:29 PM
http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com





Wow.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 10, 2011, 05:53:53 PM
I can go through the thread and pull out specific pieces, but I don't really like to spend the time doing that.

And I could show you were wrong but if you don't have the time, I don't have the time to post them, that's cool

I don't find it worthwhile and if I make a point, such as your defensive nature against the media, the constant position of the "police policing themselves" even when it's quite obvious it's not, and your position in threads about how your rights to do certain things (such as point a gun at me) are much more valid than my right to defend myself, then I'm pretty sure that even quotations to that effect (which are all there) certainly won't matter to you, so why bother?

The above are  your reasons you don't want to post examples. No response required. I don't agree with your reasons, but we already knew that.

You like your job. You think you do a fantastic job at it... Well, good. I'm happy for you.

Thanks. I love most aspects of my job, dislike others. I'm pretty good at it, not  the best but above average  

Here's some nice statistics for you... Look them up if you don't believe it.

Currently 1 dollar for every 15 dollars in tax money is spent on corrections AND while the US population has grown by less than 33% in the past 25 years, the incarceration rate has risen by 400%.

Don't doubt it. Not a fan of a multitude of laws we have on the books. But then I'm not a fan of people who beat up or shoot or rob other people. I'll take your numbers at face value for the sake of the argument.  


In the Soviet Union, during the height of Stalin, Stalin had incarcerated 20 people per 100,000 in the Gulags for NON-VIOLENT crime. Today, in the FREE democracy of the United States of America, we incarcerate 19.7 per 100,000 for (again) NON-VIOLENT crime.

Again, for the sake of argument I'll take your numbers at face value. Personally, I am not in favor of incarceration for most drug offenses, but I'd like to see the guy who rips off the old lady out of her life savings with bogus construction scams get a few years in the slammer.  

I think your job is fascist and brings no real value to society at large.

I think you would be hard pressed to arrest bank robbers, rapists, aggravated assault suspects, burglary suspects etc on your own or control traffic, work accidents, investigate child abuse, sexual assaults, forgeries, thefts and other various crimes without us. Who would respond to 911 calls?  



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 11, 2011, 06:21:11 PM
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'State of emergency' in 'Nazi'-cop town
WorldNetDaily ^ | July 10, 2011 | July 10, 2011
Posted on July 11, 2011 10:17:08 PM EDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks

The Arizona town that's become a YouTube sensation for its police department hauling away a woman speaking at a town-hall meeting declared a state of emergency this afternoon, leaving many local residents in fear of what officers dressed in full riot gear might do.

Jennifer "Jade" Jones, 45, the woman forcibly removed by police from a recent public meeting in Quartzsite, Ariz., despite the vocal objections of the mayor, says an illegal secret meeting was held today with the public locked out of the building.

"About noon today, the town council, at the request of the police chief, declared an official state of emergency," Jones said online. "Please help!"

The Arizona Republic reported the emergency meeting was held "to beef up security after receiving death threats."

Jones told WND there's actually no emergency of any kind, as it's a peaceful Sunday with people attending church; but in the wake of a WND report which exposed allegations of wrongdoing by local government officials, the town council and police convened an unpublicized meeting to declare an emergency for their own protection.

"Obviously it has put a fear into them, as they realize, 'Oh my God, everyone's looking at us now,'" she said. "There's been no incident to warrant this. They did this to protect themselves. The people are in danger."

She says local residents have no idea what may be coming next.

"They've got their tactical gear on, the police chief and his sergeant," Jones said. "I don't know what that means. I need to get the word out in case they come here. I am very concerned for my safety. We're two hours from Phoenix, out in the middle of nowhere. A lot of things can go wrong before someone gets here."

(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 11, 2011, 06:24:53 PM
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State Employees Caught Stealing Welfare Benefits
News Channel 5 ^ | 07/11/2011 | News Channel 5
Posted on July 11, 2011 9:29:15 PM EDT by The Magical Mischief Tour

It's the state agency responsible for Tennessee Welfare programs such as the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, formerly called Food Stamps and Families First.

But a NewsChannel 5 investigation discovered employees at the Department of Human Services illegally taking benefits for themselves.

Our investigation revealed a series of cases in just the last year that have embarrassed the department.

We found employees fired, even convicted of food stamp fraud and welfare fraud.

But what may be equally surprising is that more than ten percent of the employees working at DHS actually qualify for welfare programs their department oversees.

In just the last year, DHS has fired seven employees in connection with welfare fraud investigations and at least two others for taking cash meant for flood victims.

"For our employees to violate the public trust like this is just despicable," said Alan Hall, Inspector General for the Department of Human Services.

His department is responsible for finding fraud and abuse. Investigators discovered employees ripping off the program as part of separate schemes.

"It's embarrassing to prosecute your own employees for fraud and theft," Hall said.

Many of the cases involve the use of Electronic Benefit Cards or EBT cards.

They work like debit cards, and they are the way the state provides money to buy food or even cash to Tennessee citizens who qualify for assistance.

Last year surveillance cameras at a Nashville store caught DHS employee Leslie Alexander using an EBT card to buy items. The problem is the card wasn't hers.

Investigators say she used her position at DHS to set up fake EBT accounts.

She then gave EBT cards to her friends. Investigators say they stole tens of thousands of dollars.

Alexander was convicted and sentenced to 12 years. Much of her sentence will be suspended and she will be on probation.

But she is not alone.

Joe Cloyd worked as an eligibility counselor at the DHS office in Wilson County.

He's accused of taking someone else's EBT card and withdrawing money for himself.

NewsChannel 5 Investigates asked him, "Why were you using this EBT card inappropriately?"

Cloyd responded, "Well I won't have the time, but it was not so black and white."

He now faces criminal charges and admits he's repaying money to the state.

DHS Inspector General Alan Hall said, "He took benefits entitled to someone else who needed them at the time and took them for himself."

Documents show DHS has prosecuted four employees in the past year.

Leslie Alexander was convicted.

Joe Cloyd's case is still pending.

Alisa Harrison was an eligibility counselor charged with using a card that wasn't hers.

And Felisa Trotter was convicted for illegally getting food stamp benefits.

Investigators proved that she and her husband lied -- claiming they weren't married, which enabled her to qualify for benefits.

Ironically, Trotter worked in the appeals division and heard from people doing the same thing.

But what may be most surprising is that 593 DHS employees are currently receiving food stamp benefits.

That's more than ten percent of all the employees in the department.

The starting salary for an eligibility counselor is just over $26,500 a year. Eligibility Clerks make as little as 17,500 according to an ad for an open position on the state website.

"When you know the rules very well, if you're not honest, you start thinking about how to break the rules," Hall said.

Hall promises the department is stepping up efforts to find fraud and says no employee will get away with it for long.

"I believe they're the rare occurrences, because all of our employees want to do the right thing," Hall said.

The department has a welfare fraud hotline. The number is 1-800-241-2629.



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 11, 2011, 06:30:20 PM
Former Newark police officer says he was fired after blowing whistle on cops
The Star-Ledger ^ | 07/11/2011 | James Queally/The Star-Ledger
Posted on July 11, 2011 2:03:59 PM EDT by The Magical Mischief Tour

A former Newark police officer says he was fired for telling department investigators about a group of detectives accused of stealing money from drug dealers in 2007, according to a civil lawsuit filed last month.

Eugene Collins, 42, says he was harassed and run out of the department after he told internal affairs investigators when an unknown man accused Collins’ former partner, Samad Washington, and several other officers of keeping confiscated drug money.

The information given to internal affairs, he said, resulted in his being fired on charges of neglect of duty and conduct unbecoming an officer. His lawsuit, filed in Superior Court in Newark, seeks damages.

In the lawsuit, Collins says the man approached him in March 2007 and claimed Washington had stolen $71,000 in drug money during an arrest. Both officers were detectives and periodically were partnered.

Collins told his ex-partner about the allegation, according to the suit, but when Washington asked him to file a report without mentioning the money, Collins refused.

Two weeks later, internal affairs Detective Antonio Domingues approached Collins to question him about a report Washington filed, detailing Collins’ conversation with the unknown man who "threatened Washington’s livelihood and members of his family," according to the suit.

(Excerpt) Read more at nj.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 12, 2011, 08:42:37 AM
Collins may very well be telling the absolute truth.

I'll tell you about another real life story of alleged firing for wrongful reasons. Around 2005 a 42 yr old cadet graduated our academy class. He was a self proclaimed minister, former AMWAY salesman and satellite installer. He had issues with his first Field Training period. He could not take constructive criticism, had an excuse for everything and was found to have lied in at least one report. In an effort to give him another opportunity (I would have sought his termination when he lied) he was transferred into my command and given a new set of trainers and a fresh opportunity. He again failed with officer safety and integrity issues. After 4 months and no progress, including an angry outburst when his unsafe response to a robbery was critiqued he was terminated.

We had 3 videos of his unsafe actions and 5 inches of documenation on his lack of progress and safety issues as well as a pyschological report stating he was untrainable for policing.

He went to the local Chronicle which by the way, hates police and said he was fired because he is Christian. They disregarded that 95% of the department are Christians, the Commander who chaired his termination board was also a minister, etc etc and they ran with the story because they could not pass up an opportunity to bash the department. He also said he was fired because he refused to taser an old man. They titled the article "God Vs. Taser" (you can look it up) and ran the article.

Our policy at the time was not to comment on something under litigation so for a long time I had to sit quietly while he ran his mouth lying about the facts. Jordon Smith, the author of the article printed all his claims as truth.

It finally went to federal court where 12 jurors listened for 5 days. His side presented their case, our side presented ours. We showed where he lied about being a minister, about having a following of thousands (he included his amway distributors as his church goers) about graduating the academy "with honors" and about lying on his income taxes as well as reports.

The jurors took about an hour to come to a verdict. After it was all said and done, they said they knew he was lying from the first day on...

Jordon Smith, the original author attended 4 hrs of the entire trial..never followed up on my offer to interview us now that we could talk about it. What she did was run another article saying how the jury was wrong and we got away with firing a great officer because he was god fearing and would'nt taser old men with heart conditions. The old man by the way was about 50 yrs old and 6' 240 lbs. He was just scared and wouldn't engage when the other officer was trying to arrest him for beating his wife.

So I tend to read articles like that with a grain of salt until both sides have a chance to present their case.       


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 12, 2011, 08:51:03 AM
Litigiation?   WTF.  No wonder we are so screwed!  Even though I am a lawyer - I am sickened by many of the cases that make it to court without getting dismissed out right. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 12, 2011, 08:53:44 AM
Litigiation?   WTF.  No wonder we are so screwed!  Even though I am a lawyer - I am sickened by many of the cases that make it to court without getting dismissed out right. 

Me too. We moved for summary judgement but the Judge said something to the effect of because he claims he was fired due to religious beliefs, he deserves a trial. We had ample evidence to show he was fired for anything but religious beliefs.. but to no avail..


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 12, 2011, 08:55:28 AM
Me too. We moved for summary judgement but the Judge said something to the effect of because he claims he was fired due to religious beliefs, he deserves a trial. We had ample evidence to show he was fired for anything but religious beliefs.. but to no avail..

Absurd what goes on in the legal system.   

I favor a system now requiring some level of mediation before litigation at this point.  the cost to the taxpayer for this craziness is beyond insane.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 14, 2011, 07:33:29 PM
Sheriff's Deputy Kills Former NFL Player Outside a Convenience Store
Reason.com ^ | July 12, 2011 | Jacob Sullum
Posted on July 14, 2011 11:46:12 PM EDT by yup2394871293

On Sunday a Kern County, California, sheriff's deputy shot and killed David Lee "Deacon" Turner, a 56-year-old former running back for the Cincinnati Bengals, outside a convenience store in Bakersfield. Police questioned Turner, who was coming out of the store with his 19-year-old son, while investigating reports of teenagers asking adults to buy them alcohol and cigarettes. The Kern County Sheriff's Office says Deputy Wesley Kraft fired twice at Turner after the former football player hit Deputy Aaron Nadal over the head with a bag containing two 24-ounce cans of beer. Turner's son offered a strikingly different account:

Turner's son was too shaken to speak with Eyewitness News on Sunday, but he told his sister what he witnessed.

"They asked my dad if he was the person buying alcohol for underage youth," Jerrica Cor-Dova said.


(Excerpt) Read more at reason.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 15, 2011, 08:48:57 AM
A former pro football player swinging a bag with 2 24 oz cans of beer at my head... sounds dangerous


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 15, 2011, 08:54:11 AM
A former pro football player swinging a bag with 2 24 oz cans of beer at my head... sounds dangerous

Yeah, too bad most cops are pussies without the badge and gun and are woefully inept at unarmed self defense and disarming anyone without killing them. 

I get cops in my self defense class all the time, most are really unable to handle themselves in unarmed combat situations.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 15, 2011, 08:58:53 AM
Yeah, too bad most cops are pussies without the badge and gun and are woefully inept at unarmed self defense and disarming anyone without killing them. 

I get cops in my self defense class all the time, most are really unable to handle themselves in unarmed combat situations.   

Sure wish people realized that before taking swings at them.. bad things can happen. What with us being pussies and all..


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 15, 2011, 09:00:32 AM
Sure wish people realized that before taking swings at them.. bad things can happen. What with us being pussies and all..


you are suppoed to be trained for that and be able to deal with that.  You signed up for the job knowing what it entails. 

If you can't disarm someone with a beer can without killing them, quit and get another job or seek additional training. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 15, 2011, 09:09:16 AM
you are suppoed to be trained for that and be able to deal with that.  You signed up for the job knowing what it entails. 

If you can't disarm someone with a beer can without killing them, quit and get another job or seek additional training. 

Spoken like a guy who's only experience with violence is in a self defense class where fake guns miraculously come out of their hands, rubber knives are easily taken away, and no one is swinging a bag containing metal weights at your head. It says "after he was struck".. you need to consider he was likely dazed, big man may have been continuing the attack, officer felt he was in grave danger, might be passing out..

Don't know, it may be ruled a bad shooting. It may be ruled a good shooting. I wasn't there, haven't read the investigation or seen the video. But guys like you crack me up with your self defense class talk.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 15, 2011, 09:12:34 AM
Spoken like a guy who's only experience with violence is in a self defense class where fake guns miraculously come out of their hands, rubber knives are easily taken away, and no one is swinging a bag containing metal weights at your head. It says "after he was struck".. you need to consider he was likely dazed, big man may have been continuing the attack, officer felt he was in grave danger, might be passing out..

Don't know, it may be ruled a bad shooting. It may be ruled a good shooting. I wasn't there, haven't read the investigation or seen the video. But guys like you crack me up with your self defense class talk.



Dont' they give you tazers, pepper spray, batons, etc? 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 15, 2011, 09:14:05 AM


Dont' they give you tazers, pepper spray, batons, etc? 

Yep... and we'll use them if given a chance.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 15, 2011, 09:20:22 AM
Yep... and we'll use them if given a chance.

Or a gun if its easier to shoot someone.    ;D


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 15, 2011, 09:28:10 AM
Or a gun if its easier to shoot someone.    ;D

Had a lady in a town meeting ask why the officer didn't just shoot the knife out of the suspects hand rather than shoot the suspect... you sound an awful lot like her ya know..


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 15, 2011, 09:32:42 AM
Had a lady in a town meeting ask why the officer didn't just shoot the knife out of the suspects hand rather than shoot the suspect... you sound an awful lot like her ya know..

That is insane.   Knives are no joke at all, and to be honest - I would rather fight a guy with a club, bat, chains, brick, pipe, etc over someone with a knife.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 15, 2011, 11:39:48 AM
Police in Ga. shut down girls' lemonade stand
AP News ^ | 07/15/2011 | AP News

Posted on Friday, July 15, 2011 3:49:27 PM by The Magical Mischief Tour

MIDWAY, Ga. (AP) -- Police in Georgia have shut down a lemonade stand run by three girls trying to save up for a trip to a water park, saying they didn't have a business license or the required permits.

Midway Police Chief Kelly Morningstar says police also didn't know how the lemonade was made, who made it or what was in it.

The girls had been operating for one day when Morningstar and another officer cruised by.

The girls needed a business license, peddler's permit and food permit to operate, even on residential property. The permits cost $50 a day or $180 per year.


(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 15, 2011, 12:10:19 PM
Police in Ga. shut down girls' lemonade stand
AP News ^ | 07/15/2011 | AP News

Posted on Friday, July 15, 2011 3:49:27 PM by The Magical Mischief Tour

MIDWAY, Ga. (AP) -- Police in Georgia have shut down a lemonade stand run by three girls trying to save up for a trip to a water park, saying they didn't have a business license or the required permits.

Midway Police Chief Kelly Morningstar says police also didn't know how the lemonade was made, who made it or what was in it.

The girls had been operating for one day when Morningstar and another officer cruised by.

The girls needed a business license, peddler's permit and food permit to operate, even on residential property. The permits cost $50 a day or $180 per year.


(Excerpt) Read more at hosted.ap.org ...


Well uh..the cops...uh...there is an ordinance..uh....the girls should have...uh......oh hell, what the fuck were the cops thinking??? 

Did their supervisor say that morning that news was slow, the spotlight isnt on the department, go out and do something to garner media attention. Even better if it's little girls.... I mean come on!!! Man these podunk cops make life hard for us!



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 15, 2011, 12:13:57 PM
With the above post I throw in the towel. Police State is apparently what we've come to. A lemonade stand for Christs sake! 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 15, 2011, 12:16:01 PM
With the above post I throw in the towel. Police State is apparently what we've come to. A lemonade stand for Christs sake! 

ITS CALLED DISCRETION


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 15, 2011, 12:17:44 PM
ITS CALLED DISCRETION

or common sense..those cops had neither.. I'm embarrassed...  :o


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on July 15, 2011, 12:27:46 PM
Had a lady in a town meeting ask why the officer didn't just shoot the knife out of the suspects hand rather than shoot the suspect... you sound an awful lot like her ya know..


hahahahahahahaha


How the hell do you guys even respond to that kind of stupidity?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 15, 2011, 02:08:14 PM

hahahahahahahaha


How the hell do you guys even respond to that kind of stupidity?

Well, we don't actually say what we're thinking..


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 18, 2011, 05:35:04 PM
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MS Police Officer Shoots Chained Dog Six Times
Wordpress.com ^ | March 23, 2011 | Yesbiscuit
Posted on July 18, 2011 9:49:02 PM EDT by Immerito

MS Police Officer Shoots Chained Dog Six Times March 23, 2011

In Gulfport, MS, police were called to a subdivision to investigate a possible break-in. During the course of the investigation, an officer went into the backyard of a neighbor’s home where she encountered the owner’s chained dog. The owner, who was just coming outside to get his dog, says the officer was standing approximately 30 feet from the end of the dog’s chain when she put half a dozen bullets in the dog.

Samuel Lovato rushed his beloved pet – named Melmo – to the vet but the injuries were too extensive and euthanasia was performed in order to relieve Melmo’s suffering. Mr. Lovato:

“I’ve had her for 11 years. Eleven years. She was a great dog, a good dog and she was just in her yard doing her job and just being a dog.”

Police will investigate themselves, as usual:

Police are looking into the incident, according to Lt. Craig Petersen with the Gulfport Police Department.

“First, we need to conduct our internal investigation,” Lt. Petersen said. “I feel really bad for the gentleman and the loss of his dog, but we’ll conduct the internal investigation.”

He also said that officers have to make life and death decisions in an instant, including assessing threats from animals.

“The officer has discretion in how to protect themselves in these situations, totally up to the officer based on the facts and circumstances of that particular case.”

Sound like they’ve already got the “Justified Killing” stamp all inked up? But wait, there’s more:

There is no timetable for when the investigation will be completed. The officer involved in the shooting remains on active duty.

So I guess it’s ‘Gulfport dog owners, hide your dogs’? Maybe while you’re at it, hide your kids too. I hate to think of a kid being in a yard with a dog where half a dozen bullets are flying.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 18, 2011, 05:36:04 PM
Laura Ingraham: Airport Workers Stole My Baptismal Cross!
http://dailycaller.com/ ^ | July 18, 2011 | Mathew Boyle
Posted on July 18, 2011 8:34:08 PM EDT by Biggirl

Laura Ingraham’s baptismal cross went missing from her checked luggage at the Newark airport this weekend, and the syndicated radio host says either a Transportation Security Administration (TSA) worker or a Continental Airlines employee is responsible.

Ingraham had just finished several radio and television appearance in New York City and was in a rush to the airport. She told The Daily Caller she normally carries her luggage on planes, but since she was pressed for time and was carrying copies of her new book, she checked a suitcase before her Friday evening flight from Newark to Denver.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 20, 2011, 08:52:42 AM
Law enforcement to begin iPhone iris scans amid privacy concerns
 11:02am EDT
By Zach Howard



CONWAY, Mass (Reuters) - Dozens of police departments nationwide are gearing up to use a tech company's already controversial iris- and facial-scanning device that slides over an iPhone and helps identify a person or track criminal suspects.

The so-called "biometric" technology, which seems to take a page from TV shows like "MI-5" or "CSI," could improve speed and accuracy in some routine police work in the field. However, its use has set off alarms with some who are concerned about possible civil liberties and privacy issues.

The smartphone-based scanner, named Mobile Offender Recognition and Information System, or MORIS, is made by BI2 Technologies in Plymouth, Massachusetts, and can be deployed by officers out on the beat or back at the station.

An iris scan, which detects unique patterns in a person's eyes, can reduce to seconds the time it takes to identify a suspect in custody. This technique also is significantly more accurate than results from other fingerprinting technology long in use by police, BI2 says.

When attached to an iPhone, MORIS can photograph a person's face and run the image through software that hunts for a match in a BI2-managed database of U.S. criminal records. Each unit costs about $3,000.

Some experts fret police may be randomly scanning the population, using potentially intrusive techniques to search for criminals, sex offenders, and illegal aliens, but the manufacturer says that would be a difficult task for officers to carry out.

Sean Mullin, BI2's CEO, says it is difficult, if not impossible, to covertly photograph someone and obtain a clear, usable image without that person knowing about it, because the MORIS should be used close up.

"It requires a level of cooperation that makes it very overt -- a person knows that you're taking a picture for this purpose," Mullin said.

CONCERNS

But constitutional rights advocates are concerned, in part because the device can accurately scan an individual's face from up to four feet away, potentially without a person's being aware of it.

Experts also say that before police administer an iris scan, they should have probable cause a crime has been committed.

"What we don't want is for them to become a general surveillance tool, where the police start using them routinely on the general public, collecting biometric information on innocent people," said Jay Stanley, senior policy analyst with the national ACLU in Washington, D.C.

Meanwhile, advocates see the MORIS as a way to make tools already in use on police cruiser terminals more mobile for cops on the job.

"This is (the technology) stepping out of the cruiser and riding on the officer's belt, along with his flashlight, his handcuffs, his sidearm or the other myriad tools," said John Birtwell, spokesman for the Plymouth County Sheriff's Department in southeastern Massachusetts, one of the first departments to use the devices.

The technology is also employed to maintain security at Plymouth's 1,650 inmate jail, where it is used to prevent the wrong prisoner from being released.

"There, we have everybody in orange jumpsuits, so everyone looks the same. So, quite literally, the last thing we do before you leave our facility is we compare your iris to our database," said Birtwell.

One of the technology's earliest uses at BI2, starting in 2005, was to help various agencies identify missing children or at-risk adults, like Alzheimer's patients.

Since then, it has been used to combat identity fraud, and could potentially be used in traffic stops when a driver is without a license, or when people are stopped for questioning at U.S. borders.

Facial recognition technology is not without its problems, however. For example, some U.S. individuals mistakenly have had their driver's license revoked as a potential fraud. The problem, it turns out, is that they look like another driver and so the technology mistakenly flags them as having fake identification.

Roughly 40 law enforcement units nationwide will soon be using the MORIS, including Arizona's Pinal County Sheriff's Office, as well as officers in Hampton City in Virginia and Calhoun County in Alabama.

(Editing by Barbara Goldberg and Jerry Norton)



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 20, 2011, 09:44:36 AM
Fascism meets the 21st century... Holy shit.


I'm not letting this shit go TU.



   



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 20, 2011, 09:54:34 AM
And you shouldn't... I have no doubt that if people didn't speak up about it, this would be like Nazi Germany all over again.

It's bad enough now, but just imagine if we didn't have the Bill of Rights in the first place?

I blame those who willfully accept this bullshit just as much as the thug law enforcement "community"


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: whork25 on July 20, 2011, 11:31:11 PM
Funny how a almost bancrupt country can afford all that control..


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 21, 2011, 07:24:45 AM
Video: Police officer threatens concealed-carry driver with execution, beating

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/07/21/video-police-officer-threatens-concealed-carry-driver-with-execution-beating



Ohio’s concealed-carry law requires anyone stopped by police to immediately notify the officer if they are armed. Failure to do so is a first-class misdemeanor that can result in a six-month jail term and a thousand-dollar fine, as well as losing the license to carry. It’s usually not considered a death penalty offense, unless one gets pulled over in Beachwood Canton, Ohio, in a case highlighted today by Ohioans for Concealed Carry:

"William pulled his car to the side of the road to let out two passengers, but only the female occupant managed to exit before the police pulled up and began screaming at all three parties. “Stay in that car, I’m not going to mess around,” screamed one of the officers at the two people attempting to exit the vehicle. The driver and concealed handgun licensee, William, remained seated in his vehicle when an officer entered the rear of the vehicle."

"William stated, “I have a concealed carry, and…” when he was abruptly told to shut up. Dash camera video footage shows the driver turning his head, and his voice can be heard, but the words are inaudible. A few minutes passed while the officer continued to berate the two passengers. He proceeded to the driver’s side and tries to open the door but is delayed by a seat belt. William states “I have a conceal…” and the officer demands that he better tell the truth or else! This interruption causes William to “tell the truth” and his attempt to notify is interrupted. William exited the vehicle with his driver’s license in the same hand as his concealed handgun license. He held it up for the officer to see, and the officer said, “Why are you having that?” This gave William the opportunity to say, “I have a CCW, and…” The officer then said, “Do you have a gun?” William answered yes, causing the officer to grab it from William’s waist."

"At this point, William was handcuffed and put into the police cruiser. The officer then started to berate William, stating: “I should blast you in the mouth right now … I’m close to caving in your head.” and “you’re just a stupid human being!”

The officer continued to berate the driver after arresting him and locking him in the back seat, offering such bon mots as “people like you don’t deserve to @#$%#$ move throughout public. Period!” Just after the discovery of the licensed firearm (and caught on tape), the same officer threatened to “put lumps” on a woman who had been outside of the car if he saw her in the area again.



________________________ ________________________ ___

This is when I wish there were a venue to allow the public to take on these pigs, only they get no badge, no gun, no backup, no nightstick, nothing. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: whork25 on July 22, 2011, 03:45:20 AM
90% of cops aint shit without their badge and gun and they now it


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 22, 2011, 08:04:54 AM
Ex-officers indicted in police Explorer scandal
San Francisco Examiner ^ | July 22, 2011 | From Associated Press




Two Richmond officers who resigned in the midst of a police Explorer scandal have been indicted on allegations they intimidated two young Explorers they illegally armed and put to work for their private security firm.


A federal grand jury in Oakland on Thursday indicted 31-year-old Danny Harris and 34-year-old Ray Thomas on conspiracy counts for allegedly trying to prevent the Explorers from telling authorities that Harris illegally bought them guns and sent them into crime-plagued neighborhoods.


Federal law prohibits people under 21 from buying or owning guns.


(Excerpt) Read more at sfexaminer.com ...



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 22, 2011, 08:14:52 AM
Little confused... is POLICE STATE - OFFICIAL thread for examples of a police state, or pointing out there are some bad officers among the rank and file? I suggest you start a different thread where you can post the reported allegations of corrupt cops and keep POLICE STATE for more clearer examples of your perception of Government officials, using the authority of the police, to supercede your constitutional rights and establish an enviornment where US citizens are helpless against the jack booted storm trooper thugs in uniform.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 22, 2011, 08:20:52 AM
Little confused... is POLICE STATE - OFFICIAL thread for examples of a police state, or pointing out there are some bad officers among the rank and file? I suggest you start a different thread where you can post the reported allegations of corrupt cops and keep POLICE STATE for more clearer examples of your perception of Government officials, using the authority of the police, to supercede your constitutional rights and establish an enviornment where US citizens are helpless against the jack booted storm trooper thugs in uniform.

Wrong - its not a few - its WAY TOO MANY and its pervasive at all levels of this disgusting govt you are nothing but an enforcer for. 

Cops are not protectors of the public, they are enforcers and henchmen for the govt. and the horrible policies that are put in place. 

We all make choices in life, you make the choice to be an agent of the police state, it is what it is. 

Whether its DHS making videos targeting whites, ATF & DOJ running gun scams, local police stealing cash and $$$ from dealers, etc, you are all part of the same bullshit and war on the average joe blow going to work and subject to this nonsense.

     


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 22, 2011, 08:37:35 AM
Wrong - its not a few - its WAY TOO MANY and its pervasive at all levels of this disgusting govt you are nothing but an enforcer for. 

Cops are not protectors of the public, they are enforcers and henchmen for the govt. and the horrible policies that are put in place. 

We all make choices in life, you make the choice to be an agent of the police state, it is what it is. 

Whether its DHS making videos targeting whites, ATF & DOJ running gun scams, local police stealing cash and $$$ from dealers, etc, you are all part of the same bullshit and war on the average joe blow going to work and subject to this nonsense.

     

I think you are mistaken.. we'll just have to agree to disagree. Good luck with your cause


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 22, 2011, 08:47:50 AM
Yeah, like you would ever admit to anything else?


Talk to the average citizen off the record what they think of 99% of law enforcement and your eyes might open a bit.   


Between bullshit speed points, onerous regulations on all levels of activity, over zealous arrests and prosecutions for what used to be minor crap, "zero tolerance" bullshit, etc, most law enforcement agencies are nothing more than a praetorian guard for the govt.   


I am not kidding, i feel safer on the subway with the thugs and gangbangers than I do around a place with 3 or more cops.       


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on July 22, 2011, 09:09:18 AM
Yeah, like you would ever admit to anything else?


Talk to the average citizen off the record what they think of 99% of law enforcement and your eyes might open a bit.   


Between bullshit speed points, onerous regulations on all levels of activity, over zealous arrests and prosecutions for what used to be minor crap, "zero tolerance" bullshit, etc, most law enforcement agencies are nothing more than a praetorian guard for the govt.   


I am not kidding, i feel safer on the subway with the thugs and gangbangers than I do around a place with 3 or more cops.       

Again, I support your right to believe what you want, your right to vote in and out those who make the laws, and seek change for things you disagree with.

I just don't share your personal belief on this matter. Simple as that.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 22, 2011, 09:20:11 AM
Here is the difference: 



1.  The cops are looking for OT, collars, etc. and have quotas to bust balls and raise  $ $ $ $.  They have a financial incentive to bust my balls.     

2.  The gangbangers on the subway typically don't mess with me cause I usually give a head nod and they don't want to bother. 


 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 24, 2011, 01:07:29 PM
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TSA worker stole watches, debit card from LAX bags, officials say
Los Angeles Times ^ | July 22, 2011 | Allen J. Schaben /
Posted on July 24, 2011 5:08:31 PM EDT by george76

A Transportation Security Administration officer has been indicted on five charges in the theft of four watches and a pre-paid debit card from luggage at Los Angeles International Airport, officials announced Friday.

A federal grand jury indicted Paul Yashou, 38, of Torrance, on two felony and three misdemeanor theft counts Friday afternoon.

Yashou is alleged to have stolen the items from luggage going through security at LAX’s Terminal 1,

(Excerpt) Read more at latimesblogs.latimes.com ...

TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events; US: California; Click to Add Topic
KEYWORDS: tsa; Click to Add Keyword
 
A dollar a day keeps the 404 away. Thank you very much!!


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 26, 2011, 04:47:28 AM
As Criminal Laws Proliferate, More Are Ensnared
By GARY FIELDS and JOHN R. EMSHWILLER

www.wsj.com


________________________ ___________________

Eddie Leroy Anderson of Craigmont, Idaho, is a retired logger, a former science teacher and now a federal criminal thanks to his arrowhead-collecting hobby.

 With the growing number of federal criminal statutes, it's become increasingly easy for Americans to end up on the wrong side of the law. Kelsey Hubbard talks with WSJ's Gary Fields about the impact.

In 2009, Mr. Anderson loaned his son some tools to dig for arrowheads near a favorite campground of theirs. Unfortunately, they were on federal land. Authorities "notified me to get a lawyer and a damn good one," Mr. Anderson recalls.

There is no evidence the Andersons intended to break the law, or even knew the law existed, according to court records and interviews. But the law, the Archaeological Resources Protection Act of 1979, doesn't require criminal intent and makes it a felony punishable by up to two years in prison to attempt to take artifacts off federal land without a permit.

Faced with that reality, the two men, who didn't find arrowheads that day, pleaded guilty to a misdemeanor and got a year's probation and a $1,500 penalty each. "We kind of wonder why it got took to the level that it did," says Mr. Anderson, 68 years old.

Wendy Olson, the U.S. Attorney for Idaho, said the men were on an archeological site that was 13,000 years old. "Folks do need to pay attention to where they are," she said.

The Andersons are two of the hundreds of thousands of Americans to be charged and convicted in recent decades under federal criminal laws—as opposed to state or local laws—as the federal justice system has dramatically expanded its authority and reach.

As federal criminal statutes have ballooned, it has become increasingly easy for Americans to end up on the wrong side of the law. Many of the new federal laws also set a lower bar for conviction than in the past: Prosecutors don't necessarily need to show that the defendant had criminal intent.

See a breakdown of the rise of federal sentences by the type of offense.

U.S. National Archives, Washington, D.C.

.The first federal criminal statute, signed into law on April 30, 1790, includes only a handful of offenses: treason, counterfeiting, piracy, and murder, maiming and robbery in federal jurisdictions. It fit on to two sheets of parchment, each around 27 inches by 22 inches, and was handwritten in iron gall ink.

The law is currently kept in a vault in the National Archives in Washington, D.C. See a digital copy, or click here to read the text.

.
.These factors are contributing to some unusual applications of justice. Father-and-son arrowhead lovers can't argue they made an innocent mistake. A lobster importer is convicted in the U.S. for violating a Honduran law that the Honduran government disavowed. A Pennsylvanian who injured her husband's lover doesn't face state criminal charges—instead, she faces federal charges tied to an international arms-control treaty.

The U.S. Constitution mentions three federal crimes by citizens: treason, piracy and counterfeiting. By the turn of the 20th century, the number of criminal statutes numbered in the dozens. Today, there are an estimated 4,500 crimes in federal statutes, according to a 2008 study by retired Louisiana State University law professor John Baker.

There are also thousands of regulations that carry criminal penalties. Some laws are so complex, scholars debate whether they represent one offense, or scores of offenses.

Counting them is impossible. The Justice Department spent two years trying in the 1980s, but produced only an estimate: 3,000 federal criminal offenses.

The American Bar Association tried in the late 1990s, but concluded only that the number was likely much higher than 3,000. The ABA's report said "the amount of individual citizen behavior now potentially subject to federal criminal control has increased in astonishing proportions in the last few decades."

A Justice spokeswoman said there was no quantifiable number. Criminal statutes are sprinkled throughout some 27,000 pages of the federal code.

There are many reasons for the rising tide of laws. It's partly due to lawmakers responding to hot-button issues—environmental messes, financial machinations, child kidnappings, consumer protection—with calls for federal criminal penalties. Federal regulations can also carry the force of federal criminal law, adding to the legal complexity.

With the growing number of federal crimes, the number of people sentenced to federal prison has risen nearly threefold over the past 30 years to 83,000 annually. The U.S. population grew only about 36% in that period. The total federal prison population, over 200,000, grew more than eightfold—twice the growth rate of the state prison population, now at 2 million, according the federal Bureau of Justice Statistics

Tougher federal drug laws account for about 30% of people sentenced, a decline from over 40% two decades ago. The proportion of people sentenced for most other crimes, such as firearms possession, fraud and other non-violent offenses, has doubled in the past 20 years.

The growth in federal law has produced benefits. Federal legislation was indispensable in winning civil rights for African-Americans. Some of the new laws, including those tackling political corruption and violent crimes, are relatively noncontroversial and address significant problems. Plenty of convicts deserve the punishment they get.

Roscoe Howard, the former U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia, argues that the system "isn't broken." Congress, he says, took its cue over the decades from a public less tolerant of certain behaviors. Current law provides a range of options to protect society, he says. "It would be horrible if they started repealing laws and taking those options away."

Still, federal criminal laws can be controversial. Some duplicate existing state criminal laws, and others address matters that might better be handled as civil rather than criminal matters.

Some federal laws appear picayune. Unauthorized use of the Smokey Bear image could land an offender in prison. So can unauthorized use of the slogan "Give a Hoot, Don't Pollute."

The spread of federal statues has opponents on both sides of the aisle, though for different reasons. For Republicans, the issue is partly about federal intrusions into areas historically handled by states. For Democrats, the concerns include the often lengthy prison sentences that federal convictions now produce.

Those expressing concerns include the American Civil Liberties Union and Edwin Meese III, former attorney general under President Ronald Reagan. Mr. Meese, now with the conservative Heritage Foundation, argues Americans are increasingly vulnerable to being "convicted for doing something they never suspected was illegal."

"Most people think criminal law is for bad people," says Timothy Lynch of Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank. People don't realize "they're one misstep away from the nightmare of a federal indictment."

View Full Image

Associated Press
 
Driver Bobby Unser got a criminal record after being lost in a blizzard.
.Last September, retired race-car champion Bobby Unser told a congressional hearing about his 1996 misdemeanor conviction for accidentally driving a snowmobile onto protected federal land, violating the Wilderness Act, while lost in a snowstorm. Though the judge gave him only a $75 fine, the 77-year-old racing legend got a criminal record.

Mr. Unser says he was charged after he went to authorities for help finding his abandoned snowmobile. "The criminal doesn't usually call the police for help," he says.

A Justice Department spokesman cited the age of the case in declining to comment. The U.S. Attorney at the time said he didn't remember the case.

Some of these new federal statutes don't require prosecutors to prove criminal intent, eroding a bedrock principle in English and American law. The absence of this provision, known as mens rea, makes prosecution easier, critics argue.

A study last year by the Heritage Foundation and the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers analyzed scores of proposed and enacted new laws for nonviolent crimes in the 109th Congress of 2005 and 2006. It found of the 36 new crimes created, a quarter had no mens rea requirement and nearly 40% more had only a "weak" one.

View Full Image

Associated Press
 
Justice Anthony Kennedy, pictured, recently voiced concern over a statute.
.Some jurists are disturbed by the diminished requirement to show criminal intent in order to convict. In a 1998 decision, federal appellate judge Richard Posner, a noted conservative, attacked a 1994 federal law under which an Illinois man went to prison for three years for possessing guns while under a state restraining order taken out by his estranged wife. He possessed the guns otherwise legally, they posed no immediate threat to the spouse, and the restraining order didn't mention any weapons bar.

"Congress created, and the Department of Justice sprang, a trap" on a defendant who "could not have suspected" he was committing a crime, Judge Posner wrote.

Another area of concern among some jurists is the criminalization of issues that they consider more appropriate to civil lawsuits. In December, the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals, which is considered liberal, overturned the fraud conviction of a software-company executive accused of helping to issue false financial statements. The government tried "to stretch criminal law beyond its proper bounds," wrote the Circuit's chief judge, Alex Kozinski.

Civil law, he said, is a better tool to judge "gray area" conduct—actions that might, or might not, be illegal. Criminal law, he said, "should clearly separate conduct that is criminal from conduct that is legal."

Occasionally, Americans are going to prison in the U.S. for violating the laws and rules of other countries. Last year, Abner Schoenwetter finished 69 months in federal prison for conspiracy and smuggling. His conviction was related to importing the wrong kinds of lobsters and bulk packaging them in plastic, rather than separately in boxes, in violation of Honduran laws.

According to court records and interviews, Mr. Schoenwetter had been importing lobsters from Honduras since the mid-1980s. In early 1999, federal officials seized a 70,000-pound shipment after a tip that the load violated a Honduran statute setting a minimum size on lobsters that could be caught. Such a shipment, in turn, violated a U.S. law, the Lacey Act, which makes it a felony to import fish or wildlife if it breaks another country's laws. Roughly 2% of the seized shipment was clearly undersized, and records indicated other shipments carried much higher percentages, federal officials said.

In an interview, Mr. Schoenwetter, 65 years old, said he and other buyers routinely accepted a percentage of undersized lobsters since the deliveries from the fishermen inevitably included smaller ones. He also said he didn't believe bringing in some undersized lobsters was illegal, noting that previous shipments had routinely passed through U.S. Customs.

After conviction, Mr. Schoenwetter and three co-defendants appealed, and the Honduran government filed a brief on their behalf saying that Honduran courts had invalidated the undersized-lobster law. By a two-to-one vote, however, a federal appeals panel found the Honduran law valid at the time of the trial and upheld the convictions.

The dissenting jurist, Judge Peter Fay, wrote: "I think we would be shocked should the tables be reversed and a foreign nation simply ignored one of our court rulings."

Robert Kern, a 62-year-old Virginia hunting-trip organizer, was also prosecuted in the U.S. for allegedly breaking the law of another country. Instead of lobsters from Honduras, Mr. Kern's troubles stemmed from moose from Russia.

He faced a 2008 Lacey Act prosecution for allegedly violating Russian law after some of his clients shot game from a helicopter in that country. In the end, he was acquitted after a Russian official testified the hunters had an exemption from the helicopter hunting ban. Still, legal bills totaling more than $860,000 essentially wiped out his retirement savings, Mr. Kern says.

Justice Department officials declined to comment on Messrs. Kern and Schoenwetter.

View Full Image

Charlie Litchfield for The Wall Street Journal
 
Would-be inventor and felon Kirster Evertson: 'If I had abandoned the chemicals, why would I have told the investigators about them?'
.One area of expansion has been environmental crimes. Since its inception in 1970, the Environmental Protection Agency has grown to enforce some 25,000 pages of federal regulations, equivalent to about 15% of the entire body of federal rules. Many of the EPA rules carry potential criminal penalties. Krister Evertson, a would-be inventor, recently spent 15 months in prison for environmental crimes where there was no evidence he harmed anyone, or intended to.

In May 2004 he was arrested near Wasilla, Alaska, and charged with illegally shipping sodium metal, a potentially flammable material, without proper packaging or labeling.

He told federal authorities he had been in Idaho working to develop a better hydrogen fuel cell but had run out of money. He had moved some sodium and other chemicals to a storage site near his workshop in Salmon, Idaho, before traveling back to his hometown of Wasilla to raise money by gold-mining.

Mr. Evertson said he believed he had shipped the sodium legally. A jury acquitted him in January 2006.

However, Idaho prosecutors, using information Mr. Evertson provided to federal authorities in Alaska, charged him with violating the Resource Conservation and Recovery Act, a 1976 federal law that regulates handling of toxic waste. The government contended Mr. Evertson had told federal investigators he had abandoned the chemicals. It also said the landlord of the Idaho storage site claimed he was owed back rent and couldn't find the inventor—allegations Mr. Evertson disputed.

Once the government deemed the chemicals "abandoned," they became "waste" and subject to RCRA. He was charged under a separate federal law with illegally moving the chemicals about a half-mile to the storage site.

"If I had abandoned the chemicals, why would I have told the investigators about them?" said Mr. Evertson in an interview. He added that he spent $100,000 on the material and always planned to resume his experiments.

Prosecutors emphasized the potential danger of having left the materials for two years. "You clean up after yourself and don't leave messes for others," one prosecutor told the jury, which convicted Mr. Evertson on three felony counts. Prosecutors said clean-up of the site cost the government $400,000. Mr. Evertson, 57, remains on probation, working as night watchman in Idaho.

In a statement, Ms. Olson, the Idaho U.S. Attorney, said that by leaving dangerous chemicals not properly attended he endangered others and caused the government to spend more than $400,000 in clean-up costs. "This office will continue to aggressively prosecute" environmental crimes, she said.

Critics contend that federal criminal law is increasingly, and unconstitutionally, impinging on the sovereignty of the states. The question recently came before the Supreme Court in the case of Carol Bond, a Pennsylvania woman who is fighting a six-year prison sentence arising out of violating a 1998 federal chemical-weapons law tied to an international arms-control treaty. The law makes it a crime for an average citizen to possess a "chemical weapon" for other than a "peaceful purpose." The statute defines such a weapon as any chemical that could harm humans or animals.

Ms. Bond's criminal case stemmed from having spread some chemicals, including an arsenic-based one, on the car, front-door handle and mailbox of a woman who had had an affair with her husband. The victim suffered a burn on her thumb.

In court filings, Ms. Bond's attorneys argued the chemical-weapons law unconstitutionally intruded into what should have been a state criminal matter. The state didn't file charges on the chemicals, but under state law she likely would have gotten a less harsh sentence, her attorneys said.

Last month, the Supreme Court unanimously ruled Ms. Bond has standing to challenge the federal law. By distributing jurisdiction among federal and state governments, the Constitution "protects the liberty of the individual from arbitrary power," Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote for the court. "When government acts in excess of its lawful powers, that liberty is at stake."

During oral arguments in the case, Justice Samuel Alito expressed concern about the law's "breadth" by laying out a hypothetical example. Simply pouring a bottle of vinegar into a bowl to kill someone's goldfish, Justice Alito said, could be "potentially punishable by life imprisonment."

—Tom McGinty and Louise Radnofsky contributed to this article.
Write to Gary Fields at gary.fields@wsj.com and John R. Emshwiller at john.emshwiller@wsj.com
.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 27, 2011, 02:28:15 AM
She should sue the shit out everyone.  Insane.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 27, 2011, 04:59:57 AM
Feds told to return nearly $650k to fishermen
By Laura Strickler Topics Law and Order .2 Comments
www.cbs.com




The U.S. Commerce Secretary has ordered his agency to return almost $650,000 from 11 cases against commercial fishermen in the Northeast involving "excessive" fines and "selective enforcement" that were levied against them by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's Office of Law Enforcement.


In February, CBS News reported on complaints from Northeast fishermen that they had been subject to overly aggressive law enforcement. The Commerce Department appointed an independent judge to conduct a review of 30 cases against the fishermen.


"For too long, our fishermen have been the victims of intimidation and enormous penalties" said Senator John Kerry (D-MA) in response to the report, "Now unfair fines are being refunded and now the reality of what happened has been publicly exposed which may be just as important."


According to the report released today, the independent judge, Charles Swartwood, found fishing regulations to be "complex, complicated, constantly changing, and in some cases, contradictory."


In his report, Swartwood said he also found a "siege mentality throughout the fishing industry" where fishermen feel they are treated as "criminals".


Swartwood noted that fishermen are "paranoid" about violating a regulation because they could end up paying a "coerced amount" or run the risk of losing in the appeals process "which could force the fisherman out of business".


In a memo today Commerce Secretary Gary Locke said the cases where Swartwood found fault with NOAA showed "a lack of supervision, oversight and standards in the work of NOAA law enforcement."


Today Senator Kerry and other members of the Massachusetts Congressional delegation called for NOAA to take action against the staff who were responsible. However, Locke stopped short of calling for any disciplinary action against NOAA employees. Locke pointed to a series of regulatory reforms that have been made since the complaints first came to his attention.



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 27, 2011, 02:54:41 PM
Woman gets jury trial for displaying plastic testicles on truck
Posted: Jul 27, 2011 8:09 AM EDT
Updated: Jul 27, 2011 6:00 PM EDT
 
www.drudgereport.com



 
Virginia Tice of Bonneau was given a $445 ticket for displaying big plastic testicles like these on the back of her pickup truck. (Source: Flickr)

 BONNEAU, S.C. (AP) - A Berkeley County woman will get a jury trial for a ticket she was given by police for displaying big plastic testicles on the back of her pickup truck.

Virginia Tice of Bonneau was given a $445 ticket July 5 that accuses her of violating the state's obscene bumper sticker law.

Police Chief Franco Fuda asked for a jury trial, saying questions of obscenity should be determined by community standards.

Tice's attorney, Scott Bischoff, expects a trial next month. A relative said Tice didn't want to talk about the case before the trial.

She was ticketed after pulling into a gas station in her truck with big red fake testicles hanging from the trailer hitch.

Copyright 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 27, 2011, 06:14:44 PM
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2754875/posts


Check this out.   Pics are heartbreaking.    Disgusting.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on July 27, 2011, 06:21:09 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGB1fhx0raM



This bs with killing people's dogs is getting way out of control too.   Sick of this shit. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on July 28, 2011, 12:39:42 PM
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2754875/posts


Check this out.   Pics are heartbreaking.    Disgusting.   



Saw it this morning.  That's pretty fucked up - especially when he was screaming for his dad.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: garebear on August 01, 2011, 04:47:12 AM
She should sue the shit out everyone.  Insane.
I'm confused. You are against law and order but you want all the blacks in jail?

Who's going to put them there, hotshot?




Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 01, 2011, 04:54:14 AM
I'm confused. You are against law and order but you want all the blacks in jail?

Who's going to put them there, hotshot?




Where have I said I want all blacks in jail? 

I just want the lazy leeches and parasites who are on welfare, section 8, food stamps, WIC, medicaid, etc , popping out babies like a pez dispenser on a work farm in the sweltering heat with basic hand tools from 8:30 am to 4:30 pm daily. 

and that is both black and white.       


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 01, 2011, 06:52:56 PM
(VIDEO) Police officer facing probe after beating up videographer
Daily Mail ^ | July 31, 2011 | Daily Mail Reporter
Posted on August 1, 2011 10:42:41 PM EDT by Do Not Make Fun Of His Ears

A police officer is being investigated after being caught on tape beating a videographer outside of his home in March.

A Las Vegas police department review found that Officer Derek Colling violated police policies when he used 'excessive force' on Mitchell Crooks.

The incident happened on the night of March 20 when Mr Crooks, 36, was in his driveway videotaping police as they investigated a burglary report across the street.

Mr Crooks said that when he refused to stop filming, Mr Colling arrested and beat him, with the sounds of the altercation recorded by the camera.

In the video, Mr Crooks can be heard yelling in pain while Colling can be heard telling him to 'shut up.' At one point the officer tells him that his decision not to turn off the camera put him in 'a world of hurt.'

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 01, 2011, 07:07:44 PM
DA: Elk Grove police officer justified in shooting handcuffed suspect
blogs.sacbee.com ^ | 8-1-11 | Kim Minugh
Posted on August 1, 2011 10:59:52 PM EDT by smokingfrog

An Elk Grove police officer acted lawfully in January when he fired his AR-15 rifle at a handcuffed suspect, seated in the back of a patrol car, who officers thought may still have been armed, according to Sacramento County District Attorney Jan Scully.

No weapon was found on then-32-year-old John Hesselbein when officers searched him for the second time after the shooting.

In her 11-page letter to police Chief Robert Lehner absolving the officer of any criminal liability, Scully argued that the officer had reason to believe Hesselbein was dangerous and that the officer "had the right to act in self-defense and in defense of his fellow officers."

Hesselbein was shot Jan. 30 after his wife called police to report he was drunk and abusive. His cheek was grazed by the rifle round.

Later, Hesselbein pleaded no contest to battery on a spouse in connection with the incident.

(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.sacbee.com ...





Wtf!


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on August 02, 2011, 06:32:07 AM
Unbelievable!

The guy had his liberty removed and got shot, yet it was totally justified?!

Where's Agnostic to tell us how it makes perfect sense?

Got no problem with taking the liberty away  from a wife beater. Having said that, any subject in the back seat of the patrol car should have already been searched prior to putting him in. It's  SOP and if the officer still thought the subject was armed then he did not think he did a good search the first time. I have a problem with the officer who could have killed a person needlessly because of poor procedure.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 02, 2011, 08:08:08 AM
Police shut down 4 year old girl's lemonade stand
Omaha.com ^ | 8/2/2011 | Omaha.com




CORALVILLE, Iowa (AP) — Police closed down a lemonade stand in Coralville last week, telling its 4-year-old operator and her dad that she didn't have a permit.

An officer told Abigail Krutsinger's father Friday that she couldn't run the stand as RAGBRAI bicyclers poured into Coralville.

A city ordinance says food vendors must apply for a permit and get a health inspection.

Abigail's dad, Dustin Krutsinger, said the ordinance and its enforcers are going too far if they force a 4-year-old to abandon her lemonade stand.



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on August 02, 2011, 08:11:35 AM
Police shut down 4 year old girl's lemonade stand
Omaha.com ^ | 8/2/2011 | Omaha.com




CORALVILLE, Iowa (AP) — Police closed down a lemonade stand in Coralville last week, telling its 4-year-old operator and her dad that she didn't have a permit.

An officer told Abigail Krutsinger's father Friday that she couldn't run the stand as RAGBRAI bicyclers poured into Coralville.

A city ordinance says food vendors must apply for a permit and get a health inspection.

Abigail's dad, Dustin Krutsinger, said the ordinance and its enforcers are going too far if they force a 4-year-old to abandon her lemonade stand.



saw this one already


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 02, 2011, 09:20:16 AM
Mother fined $535 after daughter, Skylar Capo, 11, saves endangered woodpecker from hungry cat
http://www.nydailynews.com/ ^




Never let a good deed go unpunished.

An 11-year-old Virginia girl trying to rescue a baby woodpecker instead earned her mother a $535 fine when it turned out the bird was a protected species.

Skylar Capo saved the bird from the clutches of a cat which was about to turn the feathered friend into lunch.

"I've just always loved animals," Skylar told WUSA-TV. "I couldn't stand to watch it be eaten."

When she was unable to find the baby's mother, she asked her own mother if they could adopt the orphaned bird.

"She was just going to take care of it for a day or two, make sure it was safe and uninjured, and then she was going to let it go," said Skylar's mom Alison Capo.

As they were headed home they stopped into a store and brought the bird inside where they incidentally encountered an officer from the Department of Fish & Wildlife.

The officer informed them that the bird was a protected species, and it was illegal to transport it.


(Excerpt) Read more at nydailynews.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 02, 2011, 11:22:55 AM
“They Killed Him.” New Video Shows Aftermath of Fullerton Police Beating.
OC Register ^ | 8/1/2011 | DENISSE SALAZAR and ERIC CARPENTER





FULLERTON – Surveillance video surfaced Monday of two witnesses describing a fatal confrontation between a homeless man and six police officers.

The video from an Orange County Transportation Authority bus shows a woman and a man getting on the bus shortly after the July 5 incident between the officers and Kelly Thomas, 37, a homeless man who suffered from schizophrenia.

The woman, who appears agitated, gets on the bus at the Fullerton Transportation Center and tells the driver "the cops are kicking this poor guy over there. ... He's almost halfway dead."

The male witness tells the driver that the man, later identified as Thomas, was sitting on a bench when he was approached by two officers and ran from them. "They caught him, pound his face, pound his face against the curb ... and they beat him up," the man said. "They beat him up, and then all the cops came and they hogtied him, and he was like 'Please God! Please Dad!"


(Excerpt) Read more at ocregister.com ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 02, 2011, 11:33:17 AM
Retired Military Translator's Home Reportedly Raided in DEA Mix-Up
Published July 31, 2011 | FoxNews.com



A retired military translator who served in Iraq says he was treated like a criminal when agents from the DEA barreled into his Detroit home just after 2 a.m. Tuesday morning, MyFoxDetroit.com reported.

"As soon as I opened the door, somebody grabbed me and took me outside and put me on the grass," Ramsey Tossa said. “The first thing I thought was they were terrorists who want to kill me because I served in Iraq.”

Tossa and his family were asleep at the time. He woke up when he heard loud banging on the door. He was taken outside, had lasers trained on him and saw agents dragging his wife and daughters who were “half naked.”

“I kept asking, what’s going on?” he said. “And they held my neck to the ground so I can’t talk.”

He began to have chest pains and paramedics eventually took him to a nearby hospital, reported the station.

According to the report, the DEA was executing a search warrant for Tossa’s landlord’s son, who apparently uses Tossa’s one-story house’s address for mailing.

The DEA told the station that it is taking Tossa's complaint seriously.

“Before they raid any house, they should have more information,” Tossa said. “Not rumors.”

Please click here for more from MyFoxDetroit.com


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/31/retired-military-translators-home-reportedly-raided-in-dea-mix-up/



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/31/retired-military-translators-home-reportedly-raided-in-dea-mix-up/#ixzz1Ttxs7gGu


________________________ ________


My only hope is to see some of these cops' wives, daughters, dogs, and kids, have undergo the same bullshit right in front of them. 




Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skeletor on August 02, 2011, 11:52:09 AM
Imagine if this man (a veteran no less) had a gun and tried to protect his family from intruders (and he had valid reasons to fear intruders).. All his family would die from the gunfight and he would be blamed for it..


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 03, 2011, 12:16:29 PM
Breaking news: Multi-agency armed raid hits Rawesome Foods, Healthy Family Farms for selling raw milk and cheese
Wednesday, August 03, 2011
by Mike Adams, the Health Ranger
Editor of NaturalNews.com (See all articles...) 

 
 

(NaturalNews) This is a NaturalNews exclusive breaking new report. Please credit NaturalNews.com. A multi-agency SWAT-style armed raid was conducted this morning by helmet-wearing, gun-carrying enforcement agents from the LA County Sheriff's Office, the FDA, the Dept. of Agriculture and the CDC (Centers for Disease Control).

Rawesome Foods, a private buying club offering wholesome, natural raw milk and raw cheese products (among other wholesome foods) is founded by James Stewart, a pioneer in bringing wholesome raw foods directly to consumers through a buying club. James was followed from his private residence by law enforcement, and when he entered his store, the raid was launched.

Law enforcement demanded that all customers (members) of the store vacate the premises, then they demanded to know how much cash James had at the store. When James explained the amount of cash he had at the store -- which is used to purchase product for selling there -- agents demanded to know why he had such an amount of cash and where it came from.

James was handcuffed, was NEVER read his rights and was stuffed into an UNMARKED car. While agents said they would leave behind a warrant, no one has yet had any opportunity to even see if such a warrant exists or if it is a complete warrant.

Note to NaturalNews readers: This was an ILLEGAL raid being conducted mob-style by government thugs who respect no law and no rights. This is an all-out war by the government against people who try to promote healthy raw and living foods.

James is now being held at the Pacific division police department at Centinela and Culver in Los Angeles. He is being held at $123,000 bail with no possibility of using bail bonds. Law enforcement has demanded that if he comes up with the money to cover bail, he must disclose to them all the sources of that money. (This is an illegal demand!)

Law enforcement is now destroying all the Rawesome Foods inventory by pouring the raw milk down the drain and collecting the raw cheese for destruction.

Massive public protests are needed to teach these criminal law enforcement agencies that they cannot illegally arrest and persecute individuals merely for buying and selling raw milk and cheese. We are organizing a public protest day in cooperation with James. Please watch NaturalNews for an announcement of that. Story is developing...

Right now, James needs help raising money with his legal defense needs. Our non-profit Consumer Wellness Center is currently serving as the collection point for donations. You may donate right now at www.ConsumerWellness.org (100% of the donations go directly to James' legal defense needs, the Consumer Wellness Center keeps nothing).

See this video of James Stewart talking about his farm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foKg...

Here's background on Healthy Family Farms which was also targeted in the raid:

Healthy Family Farms in Santa Paula, California:

"Healthy Family Farms is a sustainable, pasture-based farming operation. We raise all our livestock on pasture. We raise all of our animals from birth. We do not feed any of our animals soy, choosing instead to feed animals as they are designed to be fed. This results in healthy, sturdy animals needing no hormones, antibiotics, or other artificial "enhancements." We harvest our animals humanely by hand before they are delivered to the farmers markets. We never freeze our products. In addition to farmer's markets sales, we have an active CSA, which offers discounts to our valued members."


About the author: Mike Adams is an award-winning journalist and holistic nutritionist with a passion for sharing empowering information to help improve personal and planetary health He has authored more than 1,800 articles and dozens of reports, guides and interviews on natural health topics, impacting the lives of millions of readers around the world who are experiencing phenomenal health benefits from reading his articles. Adams is a trusted, independent journalist who receives no money or promotional fees whatsoever to write about other companies' products. In 2010, Adams created NaturalNews.TV, a natural living video sharing site featuring thousands of user videos on foods, fitness, green living and more. He also launched an online retailer of environmentally-friendly products (BetterLifeGoods.com) and uses a portion of its profits to help fund non-profit endeavors. He's also the founder of a well known HTML email software company whose 'Email Marketing Director' software currently runs the NaturalNews subscription database. Adams volunteers his time to serve as the executive director of the Consumer Wellness Center, a 501(c)3 non-profit organization, and regularly pursues cycling, nature photography, Capoeira and Pilates. Known by his callsign, the 'Health Ranger,' Adams posts his missions statements, health statistics and health photos at www.HealthRanger.org

 


Learn more: http://www.naturalnews.com/033220_Rawesome_Foods_armed_raids.html#ixzz1TzzMYGx0



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 03, 2011, 01:37:21 PM

http://www.infowars.com/raw-food-raid-armed-agents-bust-raw-milk-cheese-sellers

Raw Food Raid: Armed Agents Bust Raw Milk & Cheese Sellers
         



Assault on independent health accelerates as retailers charged with conspiracy, ‘mislabeling cheese’

UPDATE: We have learned that in addition to James Stewart, two other people have been arrested in this raid and are being charged with conspiracy to sell unpasteurized raw milk products. Sharon Palmer of Healthy Family Farms is currently in jail, with bond set at $120,000. Palmer was featured in the documentary Farmageddon. Victoria Bloch, an L.A. county liaison for the Weston A. Price Foundation has also been arrested.


Activists are planning a protest tomorrow morning outside the L.A. county courthouse (details pending) to send a strong message that we have a right to healthy, natural foods. Help rally people to this cause, tell people about this outrageous and backwards persecution and fight for our natural rights. Check back at Infowars.com and Natural News.com for further updates.




VIDEO OF RAID: Police Seize Cash, Produce, Dump Raw Milk




UPDATE: Trio of Los Angeles raw food advocates reportedly charged with conspiracy, ‘mislabeling cheese’

Mike Adams
Natural News
August 3, 2011

(NaturalNews) The raid on Rawesome Foods by a combined force of agents from the FDA, Dept of Agriculture, CDC and the LA County Sheriff’s office wasn’t the only SWAT-style armed raid that took place today. Sharon Palmer, a mom and owner of Healthy Family Farms was also arrested and taken to jail. A third woman, Victoria Bloch, the LA County liaison for the Weston A Price Foundation (www.WestonaPrice.org) , was also reportedly arrested, NaturalNews has learned.

All three are reportedly being charged with conspiracy to commit a crime. What crime? The “crime” of advocating raw milk for consumers!

As NaturalNews previously reported (http://www.naturalnews.com/033220_R…), the SWAT-style raid was conducted like a terrorist operation, where the cops immediately went after Rawesome’s cash and then began vandalizing and destroying the store’s entire inventory. This raid was an act of economic terrorism against a legitimate, ethical business selling wholesome, healthful products to a very happy group of members.

A massive public protest on the front steps of the LA courthouse is being planned for the morning of August 4th, where James Stewart has been promised a hearing before a judge. NaturalNews is calling on its readers and supporters to join in this protest to help send a message to the law enforcement tyrants that we will not tolerate our health food stores being terrorized by criminal cops and rogue federal agencies. We will announce the time and place of the protest as soon as we are provided the details. Watch for that announcement here on NaturalNews.com or on our Facebook page: www.Facebook.com/HealthRanger

Video coverage of the event is being provided by a contributing reporter whose name we will reveal after the video reports are filed (in order to protect him from possible oppression by L.A. law enforcement thugs).

Matt Drudge is linking to this story from www.DrudgeReport.com and Alex Jones is also covering it from www.InfoWars.com

We’ve also posted a CounterThink cartoon on this raw milk topic. You can view the cartoon at:
http://counterthink.com/Raw_Milk_Li…

Spread the word, folks. Enough is enough! We must take a stand against this government-run campaign of terror against health food retailers. It is time to stop government-run terrorism against health food stores.

It’s time we fought back and let these criminals know we will not be treated like food slaves by a corrupt, criminally-run government that wishes to force everyone to drink DEAD MILK and DEAD CHEESE (which they know causes disease).

This is it, friends! Big Government has declared war on the innocent. The Obama administration, which has already gone out of its way to promote yet more GMOs in the food supply, is now overseeing government-sponsored terrorism against the health food movement. If you don’t take a stand against this, you might as well lay down, surrender to Big Brother, and eat your soylent green…

We are collecting funds for the legal defense of Rawesome Foods. Please donate through the Consumer Wellness Center at www.ConsumerWellness.org where 100% of the donations go directly to their legal defense.

Thank you all for your sharing of these stories and your concerns. We are fighting for our basic rights and freedoms against a police state cabal of criminals who now run our federal government and will stop at nothing to turn innocent citizens into gulag prisoners.




Breaking news: Multi-agency armed raid hits Rawesome Foods, Healthy Family Farms for selling raw milk and cheese

(NaturalNews) This is a NaturalNews exclusive breaking news report. Please credit NaturalNews.com. A multi-agency SWAT-style armed raid was conducted this morning by helmet-wearing, gun-carrying enforcement agents from the LA County Sheriff’s Office, the FDA, the Dept. of Agriculture and the CDC (Centers for Disease Control).

Rawesome Foods, a private buying club offering wholesome, natural raw milk and raw cheese products (among other wholesome foods) is founded by James Stewart, a pioneer in bringing wholesome raw foods directly to consumers through a buying club. James was followed from his private residence by law enforcement, and when he entered his store, the raid was launched.

Law enforcement demanded that all customers (members) of the store vacate the premises, then they demanded to know how much cash James had at the store. When James explained the amount of cash he had at the store — which is used to purchase product for selling there — agents demanded to know why he had such an amount of cash and where it came from.

James was handcuffed, was NEVER read his rights and was stuffed into an UNMARKED car. While agents said they would leave behind a warrant, no one has yet had any opportunity to even see if such a warrant exists or if it is a complete warrant.

Note to NaturalNews readers: This was an ILLEGAL raid being conducted mob-style by government thugs who respect no law and no rights. This is an all-out war by the government against people who try to promote healthy raw and living foods.

James is now being held at the Pacific division police department at Centinela and Culver in Los Angeles. He is being held at $123,000 bail with no possibility of using bail bonds. Law enforcement has demanded that if he comes up with the money to cover bail, he must disclose to them all the sources of that money. (This is an illegal demand!)

Massive public protests are needed to teach these criminal law enforcement agencies that they cannot illegally arrest and persecute individuals merely for buying and selling raw milk and cheese. We are organizing a public protest day in cooperation with James. Please watch NaturalNews for an announcement of that. Story is developing…

A d v e r t i s e m e n t
Right now, James needs help raising money with his legal defense needs. Our non-profit Consumer Wellness Center is currently serving as the collection point for donations. You may donate right now at www.ConsumerWellness.org (100% of the donations go directly to James’ legal defense needs, the Consumer Wellness Center keeps nothing).

See this video of James Stewart talking about his farm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foKg…

Here’s background on Healthy Family Farms which was also targeted in the raid:

Healthy Family Farms in Santa Paula, California:

“Healthy Family Farms is a sustainable, pasture-based farming operation. We raise all our livestock on pasture. We raise all of our animals from birth. We do not feed any of our animals soy, choosing instead to feed animals as they are designed to be fed. This results in healthy, sturdy animals needing no hormones, antibiotics, or other artificial “enhancements.” We harvest our animals humanely by hand before they are delivered to the farmers markets. We never freeze our products. In addition to farmer’s markets sales, we have an active CSA, which offers discounts to our valued members.”



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 05, 2011, 11:13:46 AM
TSA Confiscates Pregnant Woman's Insulin, Ice Packs
Security Tells Woman Isulin Vial Was An Explosives Risk

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/28773212/detail.html



POSTED: 9:55 pm MDT August 4, 2011
UPDATED: 10:55 am MDT August 5, 2011

DENVER -- A Denver couple has filed a formal complaint with the Transportation Security Administration after a pregnant woman's insulin and ice packs were confiscated by screeners at Denver International Airport.

The couple has traveled around the world with her medical supplies, including insulin and syringes, and have never encountered any troubles before, they said.

"It made me feel upset and made me feel somewhat helpless," said Aaron Nieman.


Nieman's wife was traveling alone to a baby shower in Phoenix when she was questioned by a TSA agent as she went through security around 4 p.m. Thursday.

"He's like, 'Well, you're a risk.' I'm like, 'Excuse me?' And he's like, 'This is a risk ... I can't tell you why again. But this is at risk for explosives,'” Nieman's wife said. She asked 7NEWS not to use her name for fear of retaliation for speaking out.

"I got a bottle of nail polish. I got hair spray bottles. I got needles that are syringes. But yet I can't take through my actual insulin?” she asked.

The mother-to-be said she brought the appropriate doctor's note and the medication was labeled correctly, so she's perplexed as to why her insulin would be confiscated this time.

She said she was able to get half a vial through security, apparently unnoticed by TSA agents.

"It was at the bottom of my lunch box because they didn't search it all the way through. They just took out every thing on top,” she said.

The woman has since made arrangements for additional insulin to be delivered to her while she's in Arizona.

The TSA would not get into specifics of this case, but provided 7NEWS this prepared statement.


TSA's mission is to safely, efficiently and respectfully screen nearly 2 million passengers each day at airports nationwide.

We are sensitive to the concerns of passengers who were not satisfied with their screening experience and we invite those individuals to provide feedback to TSA through a variety of channels. We work to balance those concerns with the very real threat that our adversaries will attempt to use explosives to carry out attacks on planes.

It is the traveler's responsibility to have proper government issued identification and a boarding pass; to cooperate with applicable screening procedures and instructions and to communicate their disability or health related needs.

Liquid medications should be labeled, and those in quantities larger than 3.4 ounces (100ml) each need to be separated from other carry-on items and declared to the security officer as medically necessary. A declaration can be made verbally, in writing, or by a person's companion, caregiver, interpreter, or family member. Liquids in excess of 3.4 ounces will require additional screening


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: OzmO on August 05, 2011, 11:20:13 AM
another government agency growing to powerful. 

Who the hell started the TSA anyway?

Who gave more power after it was started?


BTW,  went through security a half a dozen times last week with liquids in my carry on and wasn't caught. 

fucking posers lol.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 05, 2011, 11:22:03 AM
another government agency growing to powerful. 

Who the hell started the TSA anyway?

Who gave more power after it was started?


BTW,  went through security a half a dozen times last week with liquids in my carry on and wasn't caught. 

fucking posers lol.

Bush started it, obama doubled down on it. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: OzmO on August 05, 2011, 11:24:25 AM
Bush started it, obama doubled down on it. 

What did Obama do to give more power? 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 05, 2011, 11:25:02 AM
What did Obama do to give more power? 
]

He appinted napolitano 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: OzmO on August 05, 2011, 11:27:56 AM
]

He appinted napolitano 

and what did Napolitano di?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 05, 2011, 11:29:39 AM
and what did Napolitano di?

They unionized these thugs and made them less accountable tot he public and taxpayer. 

Its another GWB disastrous policy that obama latched on to. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 05, 2011, 01:45:04 PM
DOD, DHS Among Agencies Dedicated To Environmental Justice
Judicial Watch/facebook ^ | 8/5/11 | staff




Though it is unrelated to their mission, the Department of Defense, Homeland Security, Commerce and Housing are among the federal agencies that will focus on helping minorities get green under an Obama Administration plan that aims to bring “environmental justice” to poor and underserved communities nationwide.

The effort was launched by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) last fall and the agency has doled out millions of dollars in “environmental justice grants” to dozens of leftwing groups, including some dedicated to helping illegal immigrants. Earlier this year the administration dedicated an additional $7 million to study how pollution, stress and social factors affect “poor and underserved communities.”

http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2010/oct/u-s-gives-liberal-activists-environmental-justice-grants

http://www.judicialwatch.org/blog/2011/jan/another-7-million-environmental-justice

The goal is to help low-income populations obtain the same degree of protection from health and environmental hazards as wealthy communities. The organizations that receive U.S. tax dollars reportedly teach black, Latino and indigenous folks how to recycle, reduce carbon emissions through “weatherization” and participate in “green jobs” training.

As if it weren’t bad enough that millions of dollars have already gone to this initiative, the president is further wasting valuable taxpayer resources by forcing other federal agencies, most with unrelated duties, to participate. Besides the previously mentioned, the Department of Education, Veterans Affairs, Agriculture, Transportation, Justice, Health and Labor have all been forced to develop “environmental justice strategies to protect the health of people living in communities overburdened by population.”

This week the agencies signed an official Memorandum of Understanding on Environmental Justice outlining some of their new duties. Under the agreement the agencies will make environmental justice part of their mission and they will provide the public with annual progress reports on their efforts. In a written statement, the Obama Administration proclaims that it’s the latest effort to address the inequities that may be present in some communities.

http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/bd4379a92ceceeac8525735900400c27/28420a5ae8467cf5852578e200635712!OpenDocument

Obama’s EPA administrator, Lisa Jackson, has promised to bring minorities environmental justice since getting appointed, saying that all too often they live in the shadows of our society’s worst pollution and, as a result, face disproportionate health impacts and greater obstacles to economic growth. She assures that every agency has a “unique and important role to play in ensuring that all communities receive the health and environmental protections they deserve.” The broad collaboration will translate into real progress for overburdened communities, according to Jackson.



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 07, 2011, 03:55:38 AM
America's Third War: The U.S. Cut a Deal With the Sinaloa Cartel, Say Court Documents
By William Lajeunesse
Published August 05, 2011 | FoxNews.com
  Print  Email  Share  Comments
U.S. federal agents allegedly cut a deal with the Sinaloa drug cartel that allowed it to traffic tons of narcotics across the border, in exchange for information about rival cartels, according to documents filed in federal court.

Click here to view the Sinaloa Cartel case document.

The allegations are made by Vicente Zambada-Niebla, a top ranking cartel boss extradited to the U.S. last year on drug charges. He is a close associate of Mexico's most wanted man, Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman and the son of Ismael "Mayo" Zambada-Garcia. 


Both remain fugitives, in part, because of the deal Zambada- Niebla made with the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency, according to a defense motion filed last Friday in the case.

Alvin Michaelson, the Los Angeles attorney representing Zambada- Niebla who wrote the brief, refused comment.

The deal allegedly began with Humberto Loya-Castro, a Sinaloa cartel lawyer who became an informant for the D.E.A. after a drug case against him was dismissed in 2008. 

According to the motion, the deal was part of a 'divide and conquer' strategy, where the U.S. helped finance and arm the Sinaloa cartel, through Operation Fast and Furious, in exchange for information that allowed the D.E.A. and FBI to destroy and dismantle rival Mexican cartels. Operation Fast and Furious is the failed Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives anti-gun trafficking program which allowed thousand of guns to cross into Mexico.

"Under that agreement, the Sinaloa Cartel, through Loya, was to provide information accumulated by Mayo, Chapo, and others, against rival Mexican Drug Trafficking Organizations to the United States government. In return, the United States government agreed to dismiss the prosecution of the pending case against Loya, not to interfere with his drug trafficking activities and those of the Sinaloa Cartel, to not actively prosecute him, Chapo, Mayo, and the leadership of the Sinaloa Cartel, and to not apprehend them.”

Zambada- Niebla was arrested in Mexico City in March 2009 and extradited to the U.S. in February to stand trial on narco-trafficking-related charges. The indictment claims he served as the cartel's "logistical coordinator" who oversaw an operation that imported tons of cocaine into the U.S. by jets, buses, rail cars, tractor-trailers, and automobiles. Zambada-Niebla is now being held in solitary confinement in a Chicago jail cell.

The motion claims Mayo, Chapo and Zambada- Niebla routinely passed information through Loya to the D.E.A. that allowed it to make drug busts. In return, the U.S. helped the leaders evade Mexican police. 

It says: "In addition, the defense has evidence that from time to time, the leadership of the Sinaloa Cartel was informed by agents of the DEA through Loya that United States government agents and/or Mexican authorities were conducting investigations near the home territories of cartel leaders so that the cartel leaders could take appropriate actions to evade investigators- even though the United States government had indictments, extradition requests, and rewards for the apprehension of Mayo, Chapo, and other alleged leaders, as well as Mr. Zambada-Niebla.”

In 2008, "the DEA representative told Mr. Loya-Castro that they wanted to establish a more personal relationship with Mr. Zambada-Niebla so that they could deal with him directly."

In March 17, 2009, Loya set up a meeting at the Sheraton Hotel in Mexico City with two D.E.A. agents, identified as Manny and David. There, the four men met and Zambada-Niebla claims he received immunity from an indictment out of federal court in Washington D.C.

"There is also evidence that at the hotel, Mr. Zambada-Niebla did accept the agreement and thereafter in reliance on that agreement, provided further information regarding rival drug cartels. Mr. Zambada-Niebla was told that the government agents were satisfied with the information he had provided to them and that arrangements would be made to meet with him again. Mr. Zambada-Niebla then left the meeting. Approximately five hours after the meeting, Mr. Zambada-Niebla was arrested by Mexican authorities. “

Experts who reviewed the document say the U.S. typically has written agreements with paid informants that spell out each other's responsibilities. They doubt Zambada-Niebla had one, although Loya probably did. The defense here is hoping to obtain DEA reports that detail the agencies relationship with the Sinaloa cartel and get the agents on the stand.

In response in court, the U.S. doesn't dispute that Zambada-Niebla may have acted as an informant - only that he did not act with D.E.A. consent.

The D.E.A. and the federal prosecutors in Chicago had no comment.

Former D.E.A. director Karen Tandy told Fox News "I do not have any knowledge of this and it doesn't sound right from my experience.”

  Print  Email  Share  Comments


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 08, 2011, 04:10:04 AM
DEA Agents Raid Wrong House in Sterling Heights
Updated: Monday, 01 Aug 2011, 10:15 AM EDT
Published : Saturday, 30 Jul 2011, 11:38 PM EDT


http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/alexis_wiley/agents-raid-wrong-house-in-sterling-heights-20110730-rs




STERLING HEIGHTS, Mich. (WJBK) - Drug Enforcement Agency Officers bust into a home in Sterling Heights, armed with a search warrant. The only problem? The guy they were looking for doesn't live there. Fox 2 talked to the man who opened the door, and was stunned by what happened next.

Click on the video player to watch Alexis Wiley's report.

Ramsey Tossa is a lot of things. He's a U.S. citizen, a retired military translator and a proud father. But a criminal, he's not. Still, he says he was treated like one Tuesday morning around 2:00 a.m. when he woke up to find DEA agents banging loudly on the door.

"As soon as I opened the door, somebody grabbed me and took me outside and put me on the grass," Tossa said. "The first thing I thought was they were terrorists who want to kill me because I served in Iraq."

The DEA agents were executing a search warrant. Tossa said he started having what he thought was a heart attack. Paramedics took him to the hospital. When it was finally over, the agents took a few pieces of mail addressed to someone the Tossa's say they've never met. The DEA says the person they were looking for is actually the landlord's son. He uses that house as his address. The Tossa's are demanding answers. The DEA tells us they are taking the complaint seriously. They deny anyone was thrown to the ground. They also indicate there was likely cause to search the house.



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 14, 2011, 04:14:25 AM
Government calls buying 'night flashlights,' making 'extreme religious statements' indicators of terrorism
Posted: August 12, 2011
11:00 pm Eastern

By Bob Unruh
© 2011 WND



Just days after the White House announced a community-based approach to combating terrorism in the United States, the FBI and other agencies are asking managers of surplus stores to spy on their customers, watching whether they pay in cash, make "extreme" religious statements or purchase products such as waterproof matches.

And the request from the government also is going to gun shops, fertilizer suppliers, motels and hotels, authorities say.

Earlier this month, the Obama administration announced a new plan titled "Empowering local partners to prevent violent extremism in the United States." In it, Obama wrote, "Communities – especially Muslim American communities whose children, families and neighbors are being targeted for recruitment by al-Qaida – are often best positioned to take the lead because they know their communities best."

The report warns that while the Constitution recognizes freedom of expression, "even for individuals who espouse unpopular or even hateful views," it also is the responsibility of government to deter "plots by neo-Nazis and other anti-Semitic hate groups, racial supremacists, and international and domestic terrorist groups."

Get the prescription for reclaiming America's heritage of liberty, justice and morality – Joseph Farah's "Taking America Back," autographed only at the WND Superstore.

"The best defenses against violent extremist ideologies are well-informed and equipped families, local communities, and local institutions. Their awareness of the threat and willingness to work with one another and government is part of our long history of community-based initiatives and partnerships dealing with a range of public safety challenges," the report says.

(Story continues below)


    

 
 

One of the apparent elements of the White House strategy is a series of brochures being handed out to farm supply stories, gun shops, military surplus stores and even hotels and motels. The brochures ask proprietors, clerks and others to watch out for "potential indicators" of terrorism, including "paying with cash," having a "missing hand/fingers," making "extreme religious statements coupled with comments that are violent or appear to condone violence" and making bulk purchases of "Meals Ready to Eat" or "night flashlights."

The following was handed out to surplus stores by agents of the FBI in Denver in recent days.


The flyer was reminiscent of the Department of Homeland Security's 2009 report "Right-wing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment" that suggested "the return of military veterans facing significant challenges reintegrating into their communities could lead to the potential emergence of terrorist groups."

The report from the DHS Office of Intelligence and Analysis defined right-wing extremism in the U.S. as "divided into those groups, movements and adherents that are primarily hate-oriented (based on hatred of particular religious, racial or ethnic groups) and those that are mainly anti-government, rejecting federal authority in favor of state or local authority, or rejecting government authority entirely. It may include groups and individuals that are dedicated to a single issue, such as opposition to abortion or immigration."

The DHS report had followed only by weeks a report from the Missouri Information Analysis Center that linked conservative groups to domestic terrorism.

The Missouri report warned law enforcement agencies to watch for suspicious individuals who may have bumper stickers for presidential candidates such as Ron Paul, Bob Barr and Chuck Baldwin. It further warned law enforcement to watch out for individuals with "radical" ideologies based on Christian views, such as opposing illegal immigration, abortion and federal taxes.

Officials with Oath Keepers.org noted the document was similar to one earlier given to gun store managers in Utah. Authorities in Denver confirmed to WND that related brochures are going to surplus stores, hotels and motels, farm supply companies that handle fertilizer and gun shops.

"This new handout expands the absurdity by now also targeting customers of military surplus stores, and by specifically targeting the purchasing of very common, and very popular, preparedness items such as Meals Ready to Eat (MREs) as 'potential indicators of terrorist activities,'" said a statement from Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes.

"Islamic terrorists are not known to hang out in local Army-Navy surplus stores, stocking up on MREs, high capacity magazines and bi-pods for their long range rifles," the statement said. "As Brandon Smith, over at Alt-market.com notes, 'These are very common purchases, not for terrorists, but for Preppers and Survivalists, who are obviously the targets of the FBI profile, not secret al-Qaida agents.'

"Spot on," Rhodes wrote. "Obviously, the current crop of FBI 'leadership' considers anyone who wants to be self-sufficient and prepared to be a 'threat' that should be relentlessly tracked and reported."

An FBI spokesman in Denver confirmed to WND that the flyer is genuine.

"It has been disseminated throughout the United States by the FBI. The flyer and the information on it, stands on its own merit. It was created by FBI headquarters in Washington, D.C., the Denver Division has placed our contact information on the flyer and distributed it to local businesses within the states of Colorado and Wyoming.

"I assure you the process and the information has been well vetted by the Department of Justice before being released."

In addition to contact information for the FBI, the flyer also had a telephone number for the Colorado Information Analysis Center, a law enforcement "fusion" center where director Dana Reynolds told WND it's just part of the information-collecting done by the government.

He said when tips are turned in about suspicious activity, they are evaluated to determine whether there should be a police investigation.

"If it turns out to be nothing, if there's no probably case, then the contact is ended there."

However, when asked about profiling for suspicious behavior, such as that done successfully by security authorities in Israel, he said that was not being done, and why it is not being done "is a good question."

One-time Colorado congressional candidate Rob McNealy, who also is a decision-maker in the Libertarian Party, told WND he came across the flyer to surplus stores among his circle of friends and quickly confirmed it was genuine.

He pointed out to WND the irony that the government, through the Federal Emergency Management Agency, specifically advises citizens to collect "ready-to-eat canned meats, fruits and vegetables" as well as "flashlight and extra batteries" and "matches in a waterproof container."

Then the FBI asks store managers to report the "suspicious" activity of buying the same items.

"It's almost like entrapment," McNealy said.

He warned that such practices could be used as attacks on free speech, the right of association and other constitutional provisions. And he believes authorities are targeting Americans who choose to prepare themselves for emergencies.

"Al-Qaida terrorists are not running around buying MREs," he said.

McNealy said he has information "from somebody who sat in on one of the [fusion-center type] training things in their class they will talk about all the groups out there who are dangerous to cops, sovereign citizens, neo-Nazis – and Oath Keepers and tea party groups."

"They lump them all together," he said.

Oath Keepers reported last year that it appeared the Southern Poverty Law Center had become "officially" part of DHS. That was because the chief of the SPLC "now sits on the DHS 'Working Group on Countering Violent Extremism' along with the leaders of other so-called non government organizations," the group reported.

The move came after a government agency accused a father of being associated "with a militia group known as Oath Keepers."

"It should come as no surprise to see Joint Terrorism Task Forces in states now listing the purchasing of firearms, high capacity magazines, bi-pods, night vision, MREs, weatherproofed ammunition containers, etc. as 'potential indicators of terrorist activities' since SPLC is almost entirely focused on going after the militia movement and the Patriot Movement, and is also focused on relentlessly demonizing and smearing nearly any individual or group on the political right that advocates strict adherence to the Constitution or who advocates for the right to bear arms, for state nullification of unconstitutional federal laws, etc. which is why SPLC also has a special animus toward Oath Keepers, which it has labeled as one of the most worrisome groups out there, because it contains active duty police and military who advocate for strict obedience to the Constitution and who pledge to refuse to obey unconstitutional orders," Rhodes wrote at the time.

"They see all of us on the patriot right as being terrorists or potential terrorists, and they intend to use all the power of government to control, suppress, marginalize, investigate, track, and if possible, prosecute us all until they stamp out our beliefs and views," Rhodes told WND.

"How far we have come from the Founder's ideal of a 'well regulated' (well equipped and well trained) citizen militia where ALL able bodied citizens were expected to keep and bear their own weapons, ammunition, field gear, and other supplies essential to personal military capability and competence. And the Founders expected us to keep that military gear at home and to actually train together in its use so we would 'be prepared' for anything, you know, like the Boy Scouts motto. That motto is a sad remnant of the Founders' ideal of a prepared citizenry," Rhodes wrote.

"Under the logic of this most recent handout, the Boy Scouts should be reported as 'suspicious,'" he wrote.

"The Founders would have wanted all of us, every one, to 'be prepared' for 'any old thing.' They would have wanted us to have night vision, gas masks (which come in handy in many situations), 'high-capacity' magazines – and the powerful military pattern rifles that use them – bi-pods so we can shoot accurately at long distance, and plenty of ammunition in 'weatherproofed' containers (also known as surplus ammo cans). They would have wanted us to have plenty of MREs for handy field use, and even 'night flashlights.' I suppose 'day flashlights' are OK with the FBI Joint Terrorism Task Force, but those dangerous 'night flashlights' are verboten, and anyone who buys one must be reported! I certainly hope it wasn't actually someone at the FBI who wrote that.

"Funny thing is, who exactly do the authors of these handouts think they are talking to when they ask gun store and military surplus store owners and staff to spy on their customers and serve as a network of government snitches? These stores are usually owned and staffed by veterans, who are also very preparedness minded – in other words, just like the customers the government wants them to inform on. That's like handing the MIAC report to Ron Paul and Chuck Baldwin supporters and asking them to keep an eye on those pesky, subversive, and potentially dangerous Ron Paul and Chuck Baldwin supporters. It's absurd," Rhodes wrote.

The U.S. administration has made clear in a number of cases that it is concerned about conservatives as a potential danger and even has argued in court that it wants the authority to track American citizens in order to develop "probable cause" needed for search warrants.

That argument is being made before the U.S. Supreme Court in a dispute over whether police investigators and other authorities should be allowed to track American citizens who have not done anything that would ordinarily prompt a judge to issue a search warrant.

"The court of appeals' decision, which will require law enforcement officers to obtain a warrant before placing a GPS device on a vehicle if the device will be used for a 'prolonged' time period, has created uncertainty surrounding the use of an important law enforcement tool," said the government's brief in the case, U.S.A. v. Antoine Jones.



http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2763382/posts



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 14, 2011, 05:58:16 AM
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FBI adds ‘preppers’ to potential terrorists list
Gun Rights Examiner ^ | 11 August, 2011 | David Codrea
Posted on August 12, 2011 8:39:07 AM EDT by marktwain

“An FBI Denver Joint Terrorism Task Force handout being distributed to Colorado military surplus store owners lists the purchase of popular preparedness items and firearms accessories as ‘suspicious’ and ‘potential indicators of terrorist activities,’” an exclusive report by Oath Keepers reveals.

Essentially, the government is conflating Americans who believe in being prepared for disruptions in normal circumstances with potential domestic enemies who bear scrutiny, and are recruiting those they patronize to spy and snitch on their customers. As potential terrorists. For such suspicious activities as buying storable food. And paying in legal tender.

This is not a new tactic. Oath Keepers themselves have been targets of a campaign to portray their organization and membership as “militia extremists” and haters, due in large part to the smear efforts by the Southern Poverty Law Center. It has been used against people who champion the Constitution and warn against the United Nations. And it’s not confined to the FBI, but is also used by the Department of Homeland Security and so-called “Fusion Centers” and…

(Excerpt) Read more at examiner.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 15, 2011, 07:35:59 PM
Police officer shot dead after pointing stun gun at man's dogs as he attended domestic
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2025812/Police-officer-Robert-Lasso-shot-dead-pointing-stun-gun-mans-dogs.html ^
Posted on August 15, 2011 6:43:35 PM EDT by Orange1998

A police officer killed while responding to a domestic disturbance in a small eastern Pennsylvania borough had pointed a stun gun at two dogs before being shot, court records reveal.

Freemansburg police officer Robert Lasso had pointed at the attacking dogs when the homeowner pulled out a shotgun and fired the fatal blast on Thursday evening.

In police custody, the alleged gunman, 46-year-old George Hitcho Jr, said he had told Mr Lasso to get off his property and not come on unless he had a warrant, authorities said. Killed: Robert Lasso was shot dead as he attended a domestic disturbance

'He tried to kill my dogs and pointed a gun in my face,' Hitcho said, according to the documents. 'I do not care if you a cop or not ...Unbelievable.'

The officer had been responding to a report of a disturbance and ended up at the back of Hitcho's house, authorities said.

Police Chief George Bruneio, who arrived after Mr Lasso requested assistance, instructed him to 'shoot the dogs' and that's when the homeowner pulled out a shotgun and fired, authorities said.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 18, 2011, 10:15:00 AM
Woman’s yard sale to pay medical bills gets shut down
Salem.katu.com ^ | 8/18/11 | Emily Sinovic, Reporter




A woman fighting a terminal form of bone cancer is trying to raise money to help pay bills with a few weekend garage sales, but the city of Salem says she’s breaking the law and is shutting her down.

Jan Cline had no idea, but the city of Salem has a clear law that states a person can only have three yard sales a year.

Cline has been selling her stuff in the backyard for a few weekends and said she thought she’d be fine by keeping the sale out of everyone’s way.

“It’s a struggle,” Cline says. “It’s a struggle for me because I’m very independent, used to taking care of myself.”

She’s run businesses and supported herself for years but this summer she was diagnosed with bone cancer.


(Excerpt) Read more at salem.katu.com ...



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: garebear on August 18, 2011, 01:05:02 PM
Woman’s yard sale to pay medical bills gets shut down
Salem.katu.com ^ | 8/18/11 | Emily Sinovic, Reporter




A woman fighting a terminal form of bone cancer is trying to raise money to help pay bills with a few weekend garage sales, but the city of Salem says she’s breaking the law and is shutting her down.

Jan Cline had no idea, but the city of Salem has a clear law that states a person can only have three yard sales a year.

Cline has been selling her stuff in the backyard for a few weekends and said she thought she’d be fine by keeping the sale out of everyone’s way.

“It’s a struggle,” Cline says. “It’s a struggle for me because I’m very independent, used to taking care of myself.”

She’s run businesses and supported herself for years but this summer she was diagnosed with bone cancer.


(Excerpt) Read more at salem.katu.com ...


Tea Party to this woman: Fuck you. You should have been rich. Don't be a socialist and try to get medical help. Die in the fucking ditch. God bless America.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: OzmO on August 18, 2011, 01:14:33 PM
No, no,   she should ask Michelle Bachmann to bail her out.  After all, Bachmann voted yes to 190 Billion in bail outs. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 18, 2011, 01:28:46 PM
No, no,   she should ask Michelle Bachmann to bail her out.  After all, Bachmann voted yes to 190 Billion in bail outs. 

Bachmann took care of 23 foster kids, so most likely she would have helped her out. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: OzmO on August 18, 2011, 01:36:34 PM
Bachmann took care of 23 foster kids, so most likely she would have helped her out. 

That's right.  Ayone who voted for billions in bail outs can't be all that bad. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 19, 2011, 07:01:32 PM
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Family gets $333,000 for 2009 raid in which cops killed dog
Chicago Tribune ^ | August 19, 2011 | David Heinzmann
Posted on August 19, 2011 7:20:35 PM EDT by Immerito

A federal jury awarded $333,000 to a Chicago family Thursday after Chicago police officers raided its South Side home with guns drawn and shot its dog in a search that found no criminal activity in the apartment.

Teenage brothers Thomas and Darren Russell were in their second-floor apartment in the 9200 block of South Justine Street in February 2009 when officers announced they had a warrant to search both units of the two-flat. Thomas Russell, then 18, opened the door and found officers with their guns drawn, according to the lawsuit. Russell said that he put his hands in the air and asked permission to lock up his 9-year-old black Labrador, Lady, before they entered.

Police refused the request and came into the house, the lawsuit said. When Lady came loping around the corner with her tail wagging, Officer Richard Antonsen shot the dog, according to the suit, which alleged excessive force, false arrest and illegal seizure for taking the dog's life.

(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Hugo Chavez on August 19, 2011, 07:06:32 PM
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Family gets $333,000 for 2009 raid in which cops killed dog
Chicago Tribune ^ | August 19, 2011 | David Heinzmann
Posted on August 19, 2011 7:20:35 PM EDT by Immerito

A federal jury awarded $333,000 to a Chicago family Thursday after Chicago police officers raided its South Side home with guns drawn and shot its dog in a search that found no criminal activity in the apartment.

Teenage brothers Thomas and Darren Russell were in their second-floor apartment in the 9200 block of South Justine Street in February 2009 when officers announced they had a warrant to search both units of the two-flat. Thomas Russell, then 18, opened the door and found officers with their guns drawn, according to the lawsuit. Russell said that he put his hands in the air and asked permission to lock up his 9-year-old black Labrador, Lady, before they entered.

Police refused the request and came into the house, the lawsuit said. When Lady came loping around the corner with her tail wagging, Officer Richard Antonsen shot the dog, according to the suit, which alleged excessive force, false arrest and illegal seizure for taking the dog's life.

(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...

good!!!


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Bindare_Dundat on August 19, 2011, 07:56:33 PM
Did the cops lose their jobs?
Who pays for their fuck up, meaning where does the money cone from?
Did the cops have to pay any money out of their own pockets.
Seems like a hollow victory under tragic circumstances. I love dogs, especially lovable labs. Pisses me off. I'd wanna find the cop later and kick his face in.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on August 20, 2011, 07:59:32 AM
Did the cops lose their jobs?
Who pays for their fuck up, meaning where does the money cone from?
Did the cops have to pay any money out of their own pockets.
Seems like a hollow victory under tragic circumstances. I love dogs, especially lovable labs. Pisses me off. I'd wanna find the cop later and kick his face in.

Cops unlikely lost their job. It would depend on many things. Unfortunately in this case a dog was killed and that's horrible. I'm glad the family got compensation to ease the pain but I'm sure they'd rather have their dog back.

The money comes from the taxpayers. The cops likely didn't pay any of it. There are some protections for cops otherwise we would have none. In cases where the officer acts so far out of policy or the law, then they are not covered and have to pay. In this case, it COULD be argued on the cops behalf;

1. The cop who fired was part of a team and was operating in good faith that due diligence was done on the part of the person who secured the warrant.

2. It is NOT good policy when serving a warrant to allow the person answering the door to then leave your sight or control. This was learned by trial and error in which occupants would then retrieve a gun and shoot the officer or would destroy evidence. So you can understand their reluctance to let the person do that.

3. is "the dog wagging his tail" version from both parties or the plaintiffs only? I've entered many a residence in intense and stressful conditions and have yet to shoot fluffy or bowzer just because..

So when you find out those circumstances, it MAY not be the prudent thing to do. If you find that the officer was willy nilly set on blowing a way a lab just for fun, then not only should he pay, lose his job, I'd suggest a little prison time for cruelty to animals.

I've run search warrants many a time and I still can't figure out how I still read about cops who run them on the wrong address. There is no excuse for it.     


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Bindare_Dundat on August 20, 2011, 08:34:48 AM
Cops unlikely lost their job. It would depend on many things. Unfortunately in this case a dog was killed and that's horrible. I'm glad the family got compensation to ease the pain but I'm sure they'd rather have their dog back.

The money comes from the taxpayers. The cops likely didn't pay any of it. There are some protections for cops otherwise we would have none. In cases where the officer acts so far out of policy or the law, then they are not covered and have to pay. In this case, it COULD be argued on the cops behalf;

1. The cop who fired was part of a team and was operating in good faith that due diligence was done on the part of the person who secured the warrant.

2. It is NOT good policy when serving a warrant to allow the person answering the door to then leave your sight or control. This was learned by trial and error in which occupants would then retrieve a gun and shoot the officer or would destroy evidence. So you can understand their reluctance to let the person do that.

3. is "the dog wagging his tail" version from both parties or the plaintiffs only? I've entered many a residence in intense and stressful conditions and have yet to shoot fluffy or bowzer just because..

So when you find out those circumstances, it MAY not be the prudent thing to do. If you find that the officer was willy nilly set on blowing a way a lab just for fun, then not only should he pay, lose his job, I'd suggest a little prison time for cruelty to animals.

I've run search warrants many a time and I still can't figure out how I still read about cops who run them on the wrong address. There is no excuse for it.     

I have a few friends that are officers, I understand some of the bullshit they go through but there seems to be an epidemic of dogs getting blown away by law enforcement.

 In this instance the officers didn't just break the door open, they announced they were there and offered enough time for  the kid to  open the door for them and he obviously didn't have a weapon at that time.  He was complying to their orders and had his hands up. He asked permission to do something. Doesn't sound like a situation where you have some belligerent asshole refusing orders that would create cause for concern.  I also think officers need more training on dog breeds and what to look for. Why didn't they ask, is your dog aggressive after they were informed that there was one there? How many aggressive labs does a person come across in a life time and even so I don't feel threatened by one even without a gun, especially when I'm around a group of my peers, I'd rip its head off bare handed if I needed to.

I think there are way to many trigger happy or nervous police officers around that shou;dnt be in the position they are in. They aren't able to make proper decisions in a short amount of time. I see how some people react to my dog sometime, they shit themselves and he isn't even doing anything. Those types of people shouldn't be executing warrants like this.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on August 20, 2011, 08:43:40 AM
I have a few friends that are officers, I understand some of the bullshit they go through but there seems to be an epidemic of dogs getting blown away by law enforcement.

 In this instance the officers didn't just break the door open, they announced they were there and offered enough time for  the kid to  open the door for them and he obviously didn't have a weapon at that time.  He was complying to their orders and had his hands up. He asked permission to do something. Doesn't sound like a situation where you have some belligerent asshole refusing orders that would create cause for concern.  I also think officers need more training on dog breeds and what to look for. Why didn't they ask, is your dog aggressive after they were informed that there was one there? How many aggressive labs does a person come across in a life time and even so I don't feel threatened by one even without a gun, especially when I'm around a group of my peers, I'd rip its head off bare handed if I needed to.

I think there are way to many trigger happy or nervous police officers around that shou;dnt be in the position they are in. They aren't able to make proper decisions in a short amount of time. I see how some people react to my dog sometime, they shit themselves and he isn't even doing anything. Those types of people shouldn't be executing warrants like this.

You raise some good points. But I have been to some scenes where the dog has torn up a neighbor and the owner is still saying "Fluffy never did that before" so you really can't rely on what your told anyway.

I was a K-9 trainer/handler in the military for 10 yrs and we had Labs for police dogs that were aggressive. But I hear what you are saying.. the breed is important as far as size, if it is a poodle, yorkie etc.. changes things.

I consider myself very experienced when it comes to dogs. But I could not tell a group of cop cadets that they don't have to be concerned with ______ breed because that would be opening them up to injury when they need to climb a fence to get a 360 on a house with a burglar in it and they see breed _____ in the back yard and think.. Oh, they told me that breed is ok, and then they get their ass handed to them when they enter the yard. taco bell dogs and the like excluded.. they will nip the hell out of you but are more an annoyance than a danger. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Bindare_Dundat on August 20, 2011, 09:02:25 AM
This is the kind of cop you want doing what that other asshole cop was supposed to be doing. Stayed cool under pressure and didnt have to execute the dog, (even though the dog is probably toast after that incident). That lab probably would have been alive if they had just tazered it instead and the tax payer wouldnt have to dish out 300 000 dollars for the screw up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzcLXqP2WVA


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on August 20, 2011, 02:04:48 PM
This is the kind of cop you want doing what that other asshole cop was supposed to be doing. Stayed cool under pressure and didnt have to execute the dog, (even though the dog is probably toast after that incident). That lab probably would have been alive if they had just tazered it instead and the tax payer wouldnt have to dish out 300 000 dollars for the screw up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzcLXqP2WVA


Good response by that officer. In the entry case, likely the officers didn't have a Taser in his hand but a hand gun. By the time he put it away and drew the Taser a lot of time elapses. Tasers have no lasting effects on the dog so that one was probably fine.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 20, 2011, 06:08:41 PM
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Beach ATV cop: My blood test was illegal
miamiherald.com ^ | 20 Aug 2011 | David Smiley
Posted on August 20, 2011 9:55:54 PM EDT by smokingfrog

The fired Miami Beach police officer accused of plowing his ATV into a man and woman during a drunken, on-duty joyride last month says he was illegally blood tested and deserves his job back.

Derick Kuilan, who faces two felony counts of reckless driving with serious bodily injury and two of DUI with serious bodily injury, wrote in a grievance filed with the city of Miami Beach that investigators wrongly took his blood after the July 3 crash.

Prosecutors say the blood test — taken more than five hours after the pre-dawn crash — showed Kuilan’s blood-alcohol levels were above the legal limit. Police Chief Carlos Noriega told The Herald during a recent interview that his department took steps to ensure that Kuilan’s blood test was drawn legally, including contacting the state attorney’s office, before taking a sample. He said those efforts are what led to the five-hour delay.

But Kuilan and his defense attorney, Evan Hoffman, are challenging the test.

“The city based their arbitrary decision to terminate me on an unconstitutional/unlawful test and false, inflammatory and unsubstantiated allegations and information,” Kuilan wrote in his grievance, filed July 27, the day after he was charged by prosecutors.

(Excerpt) Read more at miamiherald.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 22, 2011, 06:19:04 PM
Federal Asset Seizures Rise, Netting Innocent With Guilty (Big Government Tyranny Alert)
The Wall Street Journal ^ | 2011-08-22 | John R. Emshwiller & Gary Fields
Posted on August 22, 2011 10:12:50 PM EDT by rabscuttle385

New York businessman James Lieto was an innocent bystander in a fraud investigation last year. Federal agents seized $392,000 of his cash anyway.

An armored-car firm hired by Mr. Lieto to carry money for his check-cashing company got ensnared in the FBI probe. Agents seized about $19 million—including Mr. Lieto's money—from vaults belonging to the armored-car firm's parent company.

He is one among thousands of Americans in recent decades who have had a jarring introduction to the federal system of asset seizure. Some 400 federal statutes—a near-doubling, by one count, since the 1990s—empower the government to take assets from convicted criminals as well as people never charged with a crime.

Last year, forfeiture programs confiscated homes, cars, boats and cash in more than 15,000 cases. The total take topped $2.5 billion, more than doubling in five years, Justice Department statistics show.

The expansion of forfeiture powers is part of a broader growth in recent decades of the federal justice system that has seen hundreds of new criminal laws passed. Some critics have dubbed the pattern as the overcriminalization of American life.

(snip)

The more than 400 federal statutes allowing for forfeiture range from racketeering and drug-dealing to violations of the Northern Pacific Halibut Act, according to a December 2009 Congressional Research Service report. The report shows that seizure powers were extended to about 200 of those laws in 2000 in a major congressional overhaul of the forfeiture system.

Top federal officials are also pushing for greater use of civil-forfeiture proceedings, in which assets can be taken without criminal charges being filed against the owner.

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 26, 2011, 10:29:28 AM
Class action suit says Florida Highway Patrol illegally tickets
motorists who warn others about speed traps


 9:51 AM, Aug 26, 2011  |   comments

  Tampa, Florida -- When the Florida Highway Patrol pulls someone over on the
highway, it's usually because they were speeding.



But Eric Campbell was pulled over and ticketed while he was driving the speed limit.


Campbell says, "I was coming up the Veterans Expressway and I notice two
Florida Highway Patrol Cars sitting on the side of the road in the median, with lights
off."


 Campbell says he did what he always does:

flashed his lights on and off to warn drivers coming from the other direction that there
was speed trap ahead.

According to Campbell, 60 seconds after passing the trooper, "They were on my tail
and they pulled me over."

Campbell says the FHP trooper wrote him a ticket for improper flashing of high beams.
Campbell says the trooper told him what he had done was illegal.

But later Campbell learned that is not the case. He filed a class action suit which says
"Florida Statue 316.2397" -- under which Campbell was cited -- "does not prohibit
the flashing of headlights as a means of communications, nor does it in any way
reference flashing headlights or the use of high beams."

However, the FHP trooper who wrote the ticket either didn't know or didn't
care. "You could tell in his voice he was upset," Campbell says. "He was



http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/207550/250/FHP-sued-for-giving-out-illegal-tickets



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 27, 2011, 03:18:29 AM
When Heroes Become Bureaucrats: Why cops and firefighters stood by as a man drowned in San...
City Journal ^ | Summer 2011 | Steven Greenhut
Posted on August 27, 2011 1:50:33 AM EDT by neverdem

Why cops and firefighters stood by as a man drowned in San Francisco Bay

On Memorial Day, a suicidal man waded into San Francisco Bay outside the city of Alameda and stood there for about an hour, neck-deep in chilly water, as about 75 bystanders watched. Local police and firefighters were called to the scene, but they refused to help. After the man drowned, the assembled “first responders” also refused to wade into the water to retrieve his body; they left that job for a bystander.

The incident sparked widespread outrage in northern California, and the response by the fire department and police only intensified the anger. The firefighters blamed local budget cuts for denying them the training and equipment necessary for cold-water rescues. The police said that they didn’t know if the man was dangerous and therefore couldn’t risk the safety of their officers. After a local TV news crew asked him whether he would save a drowning child in the bay, Alameda fire chief Ricci Zombeck gave an answer that made him the butt of local talk-show mockery: “Well, if I was off duty, I would know what I would do, but I think you’re asking me my on-duty response, and I would have to stay within our policies and procedures, because that’s what’s required by our department to do.”

If you stand a better chance of being rescued by the official rescuers when they are off duty, it naturally leads people to question the purpose of these departments, which consume the lion’s share of city budgets and whose employees—in California, anyway—receive exceedingly handsome salaries. In Orange County, where I worked for a newspaper for 11 years, the average pay and benefits package for a firefighter is $175,000 a year. Virtually every Orange County deputy sheriff earns, in pay and overtime, over $100,000 a year, with a significant percentage earning more than $150,000. In many cities, police and fire budgets eat up more than three-quarters of the city budget, and that doesn’t count the unfunded liabilities for generous pension packages, which can top 90 percent of a worker’s final year’s pay. It’s hard to argue that these departments are so starved for funds that they’re entitled to stop saving lives.

After I wrote a newspaper column deploring the Alameda incident, I received many e-mails from self-identified police officers and firefighters. Though a few were appalled by the new public-safety culture they saw on display, most defended it; some even defended Zombeck’s words. Many made reference to a fire in San Francisco that week that had claimed the life of at least one firefighter. The message was clear: Don’t criticize firefighters, because they put their lives on the line protecting you. There’s no doubt that firefighters and police have tough and sometimes dangerous jobs, but that doesn’t mean that the public has no business criticizing them—especially as they become infected with the bureaucratic mind-set spread by public-sector union activism. The unions defend their members’ every action; to the extent that they admit a problem, they always blame tight budgets.

The unions that represent first responders also have a legislative agenda to reduce oversight and accountability. I recall when a state assembly member closely aligned with public-safety unions contacted me about a union-backed bill that was too egregious even for his taste. Sponsored by a firefighters’ union after a district attorney prosecuted an on-duty firefighter for alleged misbehavior that led to a death, the bill in its original form would have offered immunity to firefighters even for gross negligence on the job. The legislation failed after the media started paying attention and ignited a contentious public debate. Perhaps the outrage at the Alameda incident will likewise cause a far-reaching discussion—one that helps restore the principle that the real constituency for public safety is the public, not bureaucrats and government workers.

Steven Greenhut is the director of the Pacific Research Institute’s Journalism Center, editor-in-chief of CalWatchdog.com, and a columnist for the Orange County Register.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on August 27, 2011, 11:25:41 AM
When Heroes Become Bureaucrats: Why cops and firefighters stood by as a man drowned in San...
City Journal ^ | Summer 2011 | Steven Greenhut
Posted on August 27, 2011 1:50:33 AM EDT by neverdem

Why cops and firefighters stood by as a man drowned in San Francisco Bay

On Memorial Day, a suicidal man waded into San Francisco Bay outside the city of Alameda and stood there for about an hour, neck-deep in chilly water, as about 75 bystanders watched. Local police and firefighters were called to the scene, but they refused to help. After the man drowned, the assembled “first responders” also refused to wade into the water to retrieve his body; they left that job for a bystander.

The incident sparked widespread outrage in northern California, and the response by the fire department and police only intensified the anger. The firefighters blamed local budget cuts for denying them the training and equipment necessary for cold-water rescues. The police said that they didn’t know if the man was dangerous and therefore couldn’t risk the safety of their officers. After a local TV news crew asked him whether he would save a drowning child in the bay, Alameda fire chief Ricci Zombeck gave an answer that made him the butt of local talk-show mockery: “Well, if I was off duty, I would know what I would do, but I think you’re asking me my on-duty response, and I would have to stay within our policies and procedures, because that’s what’s required by our department to do.”

If you stand a better chance of being rescued by the official rescuers when they are off duty, it naturally leads people to question the purpose of these departments, which consume the lion’s share of city budgets and whose employees—in California, anyway—receive exceedingly handsome salaries. In Orange County, where I worked for a newspaper for 11 years, the average pay and benefits package for a firefighter is $175,000 a year. Virtually every Orange County deputy sheriff earns, in pay and overtime, over $100,000 a year, with a significant percentage earning more than $150,000. In many cities, police and fire budgets eat up more than three-quarters of the city budget, and that doesn’t count the unfunded liabilities for generous pension packages, which can top 90 percent of a worker’s final year’s pay. It’s hard to argue that these departments are so starved for funds that they’re entitled to stop saving lives.

After I wrote a newspaper column deploring the Alameda incident, I received many e-mails from self-identified police officers and firefighters. Though a few were appalled by the new public-safety culture they saw on display, most defended it; some even defended Zombeck’s words. Many made reference to a fire in San Francisco that week that had claimed the life of at least one firefighter. The message was clear: Don’t criticize firefighters, because they put their lives on the line protecting you. There’s no doubt that firefighters and police have tough and sometimes dangerous jobs, but that doesn’t mean that the public has no business criticizing them—especially as they become infected with the bureaucratic mind-set spread by public-sector union activism. The unions defend their members’ every action; to the extent that they admit a problem, they always blame tight budgets.

The unions that represent first responders also have a legislative agenda to reduce oversight and accountability. I recall when a state assembly member closely aligned with public-safety unions contacted me about a union-backed bill that was too egregious even for his taste. Sponsored by a firefighters’ union after a district attorney prosecuted an on-duty firefighter for alleged misbehavior that led to a death, the bill in its original form would have offered immunity to firefighters even for gross negligence on the job. The legislation failed after the media started paying attention and ignited a contentious public debate. Perhaps the outrage at the Alameda incident will likewise cause a far-reaching discussion—one that helps restore the principle that the real constituency for public safety is the public, not bureaucrats and government workers.

Steven Greenhut is the director of the Pacific Research Institute’s Journalism Center, editor-in-chief of CalWatchdog.com, and a columnist for the Orange County Register.

I think you can agree that it is refreshing when the government honors a persons personal rights to do what they want as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. This falls in line with your mantra that the government intrudes in our lives way too much. In this case, I think some of them were reading your posts and recognized they would be violating that guys rights if they intervened and there would be a post on here titled "First responders violate citizens rights"

 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on August 27, 2011, 04:13:54 PM
http://www.dailypress.com/news/gloucester-county/dp-nws-gloucester-sheriff-abbott-0827-20110826,0,3563854.story

MIDDLESEX ——
Sheriff Guy L. Abbott was indicted Thursday on 25 felony criminal counts that include embezzlement and bribery following a nearly two-year investigation.

Abbott was arrested on the charges Thursday and processed at the Peninsula Regional Jail in James City County, said Brian Gottstein, spokesman for the Virginia Office of the Attorney General. Abbott was released on a personal recognizance bond.

A special grand jury that began meeting earlier this year in the basement of the Gloucester County Courthouse indicted Abbott on 18 counts of misuse or misappropriation of public assets, four counts of embezzlement and three counts of bribery. The crimes are alleged to have occurred from 2000 through 2008, Gottstein said.

Abbott declined to comment under advice of his attorney.

Abbott was elected to the office of Middlesex County Sheriff in 1999 and was sworn in on Jan. 1, 2000. He has continued in his capacity as Middlesex Sheriff throughout the investigation that's spanned nearly two years.

The Attorney General's Office authorized a criminal investigation of Abbott in November 2009 and his office was raided in March 2010. Affidavits filed in courts in York, James City and Chesapeake have sought Abbott's emails from a Gmail account, records of purchases with a credit card he used as sheriff and other documents.

Some search warrants and other documents related to the cased that have been filed in Middlesex Circuit Court remain sealed.

Affidavits filed in other courts by Jennifer S. Brown, special agent accountant for the Virginia State Police, list crimes related to the investigation as embezzlement, embezzlement by officers of public or other funds and other charges.

Abbott's first appearance in Middlesex County Circuit Court will be Sept. 7 at 9:30 a.m. Abbott has filed for re-election this year and is being challenged by three other candidates.

Glad to see an example of the system working when a criminal in uniform is uncovered and indicted...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on August 27, 2011, 07:49:50 PM
I know right... It only took 11 fucking years.

Wonder how many peoples lives he ruined in that time.

ruined? probably none.. but it's time he faced the music. Embarrassment to law enforcement everywhere.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on August 29, 2011, 06:38:26 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-08-25/19-of-50-slain-police-killed-in-ambushes/50138148/1

WASHINGTON – Nearly 40% of police officers fatally shot this year have been slain in ambush-style attacks or when they were surprised by suspects with firearms, according to a USA TODAY review of officer deaths.


The killings, many stunning for their brutality, have some law enforcement and Justice Department officials scrambling to provide additional protection or training for their forces.

Of the 50 officers killed by gunfire this year — a 32% increase from the same time last year — at least 19 were victims of ambush or surprise attacks, according to a review of the case summaries and interviews with police officials.

The increase in gun-related officer deaths is particularly troubling since violent crime in much of the nation has been in steady decline. "This is a devastating and unacceptable trend," Attorney General Eric Holder told law enforcement officials this month in Washington. "Too many guns have fallen into the hands of those who are not legally permitted to possess them."

Holder has launched a broad review of officer-safety in the wake of rising gunfire fatalities, citing the need for more research to help officers survive violent encounters, including ambush-style attacks.
(excerpt)


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on August 29, 2011, 06:40:28 AM
Police officer11 of 11
Police recorded a big jump in fatalities in 2010, especially when it came to shootings and vehicle accidents.Fatality rate per 100,000 workers: 18
Median wage: $55,620

The number of police officers killed on the job skyrocketed 40% in 2010 to 134 from 96 the year before.

Craig Floyd, CEO of the National Law Enforcement Officer Memorial Fund in Washington, said that the increase in police fatalities has continued into 2011 with year-to-date deaths up 22% through early August.

"They're taking away training dollars, equipment dollars and manpower dollars," said Floyd. "When you cut law enforcement budgets people, including officers, die."

Floyd said that, with fewer officers on the streets, criminals also seem more willing to shoot at them than in the past.

However, one of the main culprits when it comes to police killings are traffic accidents, said Floyd.

Traffic-related accidents were up 37% in 2010 and represented 56% of all fatalities. Only two occurred in high-speed pursuits, he said, with the rest occurring on routine patrol.

"We see a lot of crashes when officers are responding to emergency calls," he said. "Officers are different. They want to help and they put themselves at potential life-threatening peril to help others."




Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 30, 2011, 11:10:54 AM
Surveillance photo shows officer in sex act: Some viewers may find this photo offensive
KOB.com ^ | 8/29/11 | E Garcia




KOB Eyewitness News 4 has obtained surveillance pictures of a State Police officer having sex with a woman on the hood of a car in broad daylight.

State Police aren't saying anything about the photos, but KOB Eyewitness News 4 is pressing for answers.

Two weeks ago KOB reported a story about an officer caught on camera having sex while in full uniform, an act shown on security camera at the Santa Fe Canyon Ranch.


(Excerpt) Read more at kob.com ...





LMAO - I hope it was worth it for this guy.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skeletor on August 30, 2011, 11:12:51 AM
Surveillance photo shows officer in sex act: Some viewers may find this photo offensive
KOB.com ^ | 8/29/11 | E Garcia




KOB Eyewitness News 4 has obtained surveillance pictures of a State Police officer having sex with a woman on the hood of a car in broad daylight.

State Police aren't saying anything about the photos, but KOB Eyewitness News 4 is pressing for answers.

Two weeks ago KOB reported a story about an officer caught on camera having sex while in full uniform, an act shown on security camera at the Santa Fe Canyon Ranch.


(Excerpt) Read more at kob.com ...





LMAO - I hope it was worth it for this guy.   

"Stop resisting!"


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 30, 2011, 11:34:29 AM
 :D


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on August 30, 2011, 11:50:12 AM
:D

Daaaaaang!


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on August 30, 2011, 11:51:49 AM
They always told us in the academy, the badge will get you pu**y but the pu**y will get your badge... not worth the job...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 31, 2011, 12:16:07 PM
Woman Faces 15 Years in Prison for Recording Police
Forbes ^ | 24 Aug | Kain



“The felony charge against Tiawanda Moor has finally reached a courtroom.

Moore faces up to 15 years in prison for recording her attempt to report a Chicago cop who she says sexually assaulted her. Moore says she recorded the conversation because she felt Internal Affairs officers were pressuring her not to file a complaint. The Tribune article focuses on whether or not that claim is true. Which really misses the point.

State’s Attorney Anita Alvarez ought to be tossed on her tuckus for bringing this case in the first place. In a city with a long history of police abuse and corruption, where we only recently learned that for two decades people were tortured in police stations while Chicago police supervisors, prosecutors, and politicians looked the other way, it’s an absolute outrage that Alvarez would prosecute a woman for trying to protect herself while trying to file a complaint. And shame on the Illinois legislature for not having the courage to repeal this ugly, blatantly unconstitutional law."

So let me get this straight. A woman is allegedly sexually assaulted by a police officer. Worried that the police might be corrupt – can’t imagine why – said woman records her conversation with internal affairs. The state attorney then proceeds with criminal charges because…okay, I can’t continue. My brain hurts. What is wrong with these people?

I hear this a lot from people who say we need to trade off civil liberties for security: If you’ve done nothing wrong you have nothing to fear (from cameras, domestic spying, DNA gathering from innocent people, the Patriot Act, etc.)...


(Excerpt) Read more at forbes.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on August 31, 2011, 01:08:19 PM
Feds go after Idaho man who shot grizzly bear to protect his family (Jack boot thug alert)
Michelle Malkin ^ | 8/31/2011 | Michelle Malkin



Maybe it’s time to start a Jackboot Watch feature.

We’ve got DOJ lawyers going after Gibson guitars. There’s the ongoing Fast and Furious debacle. Add the eco-nitwit rogues at the Interior Department. Then there’s the War on Lemonade Stands.

And now, we’ve got the U.S. Attorney in Idaho filing federal charges against Jeremy Hill, a father who shot a grizzly bear on his property to protect his wife and kids — even though state officials who investigated the case thoroughly took no action against the man. He now faces up to a year in prison and a $50,000 fine. He pleaded not guilty last week and faces trial in October:
**snip**
Having lived in bear country for three years now, I can say with certitude that I’d do the exact same thing if faced with the situation Hill found himself in. Absolute certitude.


Idaho GOP Gov. Butch Otter has appealed to Interior Secretary Ken Salazar to intervene on Hill’s behalf. Not likely that Obama’s Loathsome Cowboy Salazar will do anything to help, but Otter’s letter will at least bring needed attention to this injustice.


(Excerpt) Read more at michellemalkin.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 10, 2011, 04:21:13 AM
Free Republic
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Skip to comments.

Owners Angry After Cops Shoot Dog in Backyard
NBC ^
Posted on September 10, 2011 2:13:55 AM EDT by Borough Park

-snip-

But Samuelson's neighbor, Fernando Perez, said he told the cops several times that Ozzy was roaming in the back.

When the security alarm system at the home went off, Samuelson called Perez to check it out while she made the 20-minute drive to her house, he said. Perez said he knew not to go into the backyard because of the dog and when officers arrived, he warned them.

"'Be careful. It’s a big dog,' I told them. They told me to go back to my house," said Perez, who repeated the warning several more times. "Before I get to my driveway, I hear the two shots. They walked into the backyard with the guns in their hand. Then they ran from the backyard like they were scared or something."

Samuelson said she got Ozzy to protect the house and deter thieves. Police have not said what triggered the alarm.

"He was our protector," Samuelson said. "He’s a huge part of our family."

(Excerpt) Read more at nbcmiami.com ...



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 10, 2011, 04:22:58 AM
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2776299/posts


Pic at site.     Hopefully these pigs will do this to the wrong homeowner some time in the future.


Title: Re: ATF Agent Pleads Guilty to stealing money, planting drugs and framing people
Post by: pillowtalk on September 10, 2011, 04:40:35 AM
And had Vernon Howell not been a child molester. . . .

"the guy's real name was Vernon, FFS!! let him be a messianic child molester for a while, what's it to ya??"

Not x1 child from the compound, reported being sexually molested & there was NO evidence of a Meth lab either. Another Goy eats up the MSM party line ::)

"Why do we not see 'Bradley Tanks' shooting fire into blockaded Catholic church's?? If child molestation is your concern that is"

Another enemy of the state painted as a nonce, quell surprise!! If he had of survived he would have died in a car accident. With the other party mysteriously vanishing into thin air.
Never seen that before......

Timothy James McVeigh (April 23, 1968 – June 11, 2001) RIP

PT


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 13, 2011, 07:28:49 AM
TSA officers arrested on drug charges in Conn.
Last Updated: 10:35 AM, September 13, 2011




STAMFORD, Conn. — Federal prosecutors in Connecticut say a state trooper, a police officer and three Transportation Security Administration officers based at airports have been arrested on charges of participating in a conspiracy to distribute tens of thousands of highly addictive painkiller pills.

Authorities say the TSA officers, based at airports in Florida and New York, a Westchester County, N.Y., police officer and a Florida state trooper received cash payments to help transport oxycodone pills from Florida to New York and Connecticut and/or transport cash proceeds from the sale of the drugs back to Florida.

Authorities plan to announce details of the arrests at a news conference in Stamford on Tuesday afternoon.



Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/tsa_officers_arrested_on_drug_charges_hyGeqc8GW8r27TFmGcMX6K#ixzz1XqYLCOe1



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Hugo Chavez on September 14, 2011, 10:11:58 PM
LOL, 3333, got a graphic you'll love...



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 21, 2011, 12:45:22 PM
APNewsBreak: CA Police Officer Charged With Murder (Kelly Thomas beating)
ABC News/AP ^ | September 21, 2011 | GILLIAN FLACCUS




A defense lawyer says a police officer has been charged with murder in the death of a mentally ill homeless man in Southern California.

Attorney John Barnett says his client, Fullerton police Officer Manuel Ramos, surrendered to authorities Wednesday and was being charged with second-degree murder.

The Orange County district attorney's office was set to announce the charge in the death of 37-year-old Kelly Thomas after a violent confrontation on July 5 with Fullerton officers.

Six officers were placed on paid administrative leave after the incident that occurred while police were investigating reported vehicle break-ins at a transit hub.

Thomas suffered severe head and neck injuries and was taken off life support five days later.


(Excerpt) Read more at abcnews.go.com ...



________________________ ____________


Good - disgusting what happened to this guy.   I only hope the father gets some peace of mind knowing his son was calling out for him. 


and for this scumbag killer cop? 
 I hope he rots in a cell and gets raped daily and bleeds out of his ass to death.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 21, 2011, 01:24:43 PM
Solyndra execs to plead Fifth in hearing
The Daily Caller ^ | 9/20/11 | C.J. Ciaramella




The chief executive and chief financial officer of Solyndra will invoke their Fifth Amendment rights and decline to answer any questions at a congressional hearing on Friday.

According to letters obtained by Reuters, Solyndra attorneys have advised CEO Brian Harrison and CFO W. G. Stover to not testify at a hearing of the House Energy and Commerce Committee. (RELATED: Rahm Emanuel on Solyndra: I don’t remember)

“I have advised Mr. Harrison that he should decline to answer questions put to him by this subcommittee based on his rights under the Fifth Amendment,” Harrison’s attorney, Walter F. Brown Jr., wrote to the the committee. “This is not a decision arrived at lightly, but it is a decision dictated by current circumstances.”

The House Energy and Commerce Committee opened an investigation into Solyndra after the solar panel manufacturing company — which received a $535 million loan from the Department of Energy — announced it would be declaring bankruptcy earlier this month.


(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on September 21, 2011, 03:55:16 PM
Solyndra execs to plead Fifth in hearing
The Daily Caller ^ | 9/20/11 | C.J. Ciaramella




The chief executive and chief financial officer of Solyndra will invoke their Fifth Amendment rights and decline to answer any questions at a congressional hearing on Friday.

According to letters obtained by Reuters, Solyndra attorneys have advised CEO Brian Harrison and CFO W. G. Stover to not testify at a hearing of the House Energy and Commerce Committee. (RELATED: Rahm Emanuel on Solyndra: I don’t remember)

“I have advised Mr. Harrison that he should decline to answer questions put to him by this subcommittee based on his rights under the Fifth Amendment,” Harrison’s attorney, Walter F. Brown Jr., wrote to the the committee. “This is not a decision arrived at lightly, but it is a decision dictated by current circumstances.”

The House Energy and Commerce Committee opened an investigation into Solyndra after the solar panel manufacturing company — which received a $535 million loan from the Department of Energy — announced it would be declaring bankruptcy earlier this month.


(Excerpt) Read more at dailycaller.com ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




I was reading this earlier.  Below is a link to the DA's report, spelling out exactly what happened from their investigation and reasons for the charges.

It's really fucked up to read what was done to this guy.

2 officers charged, the others skated IMO.

http://documents.latimes.com/charges-kelly-thomas-police/


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 23, 2011, 06:46:15 PM
New Jersey Cop Attacked Woman Who Filmed Him at DWI Checkpoint
Reason.com ^ | September 16, 2011 | Mike Riggs
Posted on September 23, 2011 10:38:48 PM EDT by Immerito

Leslie Rosario and Jessamine Roman have filed suit against the Ridgefield Park Police Department, claiming that an officer assaulted Rosario when she refused to hand over her cell phone at a DWI checkpoint. The Record reports that Rosario filmed the stop as the car's driver, Juan Calle, was being administered a sobriety test:

(Excerpt) Read more at reason.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Hugo Chavez on September 23, 2011, 07:05:59 PM


I was reading this earlier.  Below is a link to the DA's report, spelling out exactly what happened from their investigation and reasons for the charges.

It's really fucked up to read what was done to this guy.

2 officers charged, the others skated IMO.

http://documents.latimes.com/charges-kelly-thomas-police/
I don't get the connection?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on September 25, 2011, 03:20:30 PM
I don't get the connection?


You mean why I think the other officers should be charged?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 25, 2011, 05:51:04 PM
Free Republic
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The Federal Reserve Plans To Identify “Key Bloggers”& Monitor Billions Of Conversations About....
The Economic Collapse ^ | ???
Posted on September 25, 2011 9:02:53 PM EDT by blueyon

**The Federal Reserve Plans To Identify “Key Bloggers” And Monitor Billions Of Conversations About The Fed On Facebook, Twitter, Forums And Blogs**

The Federal Reserve wants to know what you are saying about it. In fact, the Federal Reserve has announced plans to identify "key bloggers" and to monitor "billions of conversations" about the Fed on Facebook, Twitter, forums and blogs. This is yet another sign that the alternative media is having a dramatic impact. As first reported on Zero Hedge, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York has issued a "Request for Proposal" to suppliers who may be interested in participating in the development of a "Sentiment Analysis And Social Media Monitoring Solution". In other words, the Federal Reserve wants to develop a highly sophisticated system that will gather everything that you and I say about the Federal Reserve on the Internet and that will analyze what our feelings about the Fed are. Obviously, any "positive" feelings about the Fed would not be a problem. What they really want to do is to gather information on everyone that views the Federal Reserve negatively. It is unclear how they plan to use this information once they have it, but considering how many alternative media sources have been shut down lately, this is obviously a very troubling sign.

You can read this "Request for Proposal" right here. Posted below are some of the key quotes from the document (in bold) with some of my own commentary in between the quotes....

(Excerpt) Read more at theeconomiccollapseblog. com ...



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 30, 2011, 11:02:04 AM
South Florida ICE Chief Indicted on Child Pornography Charges
Right Side News ^ | 9/29/2011 | Erick Hamme







Mugshot of ICE director for Miami, Fla., Anthony Mangione, charged with the transportation, receipt, and possession of child pornography.

(CNSNews.com) - The chief of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) in south Florida has been indicted on charges of transportation, receipt, and possession of child pornography.

Following a nearly six-month investigation, federal investigators searched 50-year-old Anthony Mangione’s home in April and found “one or more” images of “a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct.”

Mangione has served 27 years in law enforcement and has headed up ICE’s regional office since July 2007.

He entered a not guilty plea on Wednesday, and at the request of the both the defense and prosecution, the judge ordered that he be sent to Miami for a psychological evaluation.

The indictment states that Mangione knowingly transported “by any means, including by computer, one or more visual depictions, where the production of such visual depictions involved the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct and the visual depictions are of such conduct.”

The transportation and receipt charges carry minimum sentences of 5 years. The possession charge carries a maximum of 10 years and if convicted on all charges, a maximum of 50 years in prison.

According to the press release announcing the indictment, Mangione also faces a “term of supervised release of five years to life following his prison sentence, and will be required to register as a sex offender in any jurisdiction in which he lives, works, or attends school.”

In a 2008 press release after ICE put a man behind bars for 10 years for using the Internet to lure in a minor for sexual activities, Mangione was quoted as saying, “This case reveals the disturbing truth that child predators will go to great lengths to sexually exploit minors ... ICE is committed to identifying and arresting these individuals who seek to victimize children and help ensure that justice is served.”



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 09, 2011, 06:54:35 PM
US Department of Homeland Security developing system to predict criminal intent
engadget.com ^ | Oct. 8, 2011 | Donald Melanson
Posted on October 9, 2011 10:40:09 PM EDT by Free ThinkerNY

We're not exactly lacking in opportunities for Minority Report references these days, but sometimes they're just unavoidable.

According to a new report from CNET based on documents obtained by the Electronic Privacy Information Center, the US Department of Homeland security is now working on a system dubbed FAST (or Future Attribute Screening Technology) that's designed to identify individuals who are most likely to commit a crime.

That's not done with something as simple as facial recognition and background checks, however, but rather algorithms and an array of sensors and cameras that can detect both physiological and behavioral cues that are said to be "indicative of mal-intent."

What's more, while the DHS says that it has no plans to actually deploy the system in public just yet, it has apparently already conducted a limited trial using DHS employees -- though no word on the results of how well it actually works, of course.

(Excerpt) Read more at engadget.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 13, 2011, 07:14:48 AM
Edited on Thu Oct-13-11 10:56 AM by meow2u3
Source: New York Daily News



A former NYPD narcotics detective snared in a corruption scandal testified it was common practice to fabricate drug charges against innocent people to meet arrest quotas.

The bombshell testimony from Stephen Anderson is the first public account of the twisted culture behind the false arrests in the Brooklyn South and Queens narc squads, which led to the arrests of eight cops and a massive shakeup.

(snip)

The city paid $300,000 to settle a false arrest suit by Jose Colon and his brother Maximo, who were falsely arrested by Anderson and Tavarez. A surveillance tape inside the bar showed they had been framed.

A federal judge presiding over the suit said the NYPD's plagued by "widespread falsification" by arresting officers.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2011/10/13/201...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 15, 2011, 07:18:19 AM
FBI begins recording call-ins (talk radio)
wnd ^ | October 14, 2011 | Kathy Shaidle




Next time you call a talk radio station, beware: The FBI may be listening.

According to WMAL.com, "The FBI has awarded a $524,927 contract to a Virginia company to record as much radio news and talk programming as it can find on the Internet. …

The FBI says it is not playing Big Brother by policing the airwaves, but rather seeking access to what airs as potential evidence." The agency's reasons for recording all these radio programs don't get any clearer as the news report goes on. No doubt that is intentional.


(Excerpt) Read more at wnd.com ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 15, 2011, 12:58:09 PM
Justice Department Silent on Pornography Found on Assistant U.S. Attorney’s Computer
Grassley senate.gov ^ | october 14, 2011 | Chuck Grassley
Posted on October 15, 2011 1:52:15 PM EDT by opentalk

WASHINGTON – Senator Chuck Grassley today said that 100 days after he sent a letter to the Justice Department questioning why the department declined to prosecute an assistant United States attorney after the Inspector General found that the attorney had spent hours online viewing adult content during work hours, he still has not received a response.

According to the Inspector General, the Assistant U.S. Attorney acknowledged he had spent a significant amount of time each day viewing pornography, including one case of child pornography. The report indicates that the U.S. Attorney’s office declined to prosecute the case.

Grassley said his staff has contacted the department several times since the letter was sent, but has yet to receive an official response from the Justice Department.

In a July 7, 2011 letter to Attorney General Eric Holder, Grassley questioned the department’s decision to not prosecute and delay disciplinary action against the attorney. He also asked the types of cases the attorney worked on and the steps the department has taken to update its technology to keep pornography off its computers. Grassley said he’s looking to be sure these types of activities are stopped in the future.

Last year, Grassley learned that 33 employees at the Securities and Exchange Commission who were found to have viewed pornography during work hours were not terminated and were given uneven and light disciplinary action.

(Excerpt) Read more at grassley.senate.gov ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 18, 2011, 07:42:02 PM
Skip to comments.

Wrong Door Raid and Flash-Bang Grenade Heart Attack Provoke Lawsuits
Reason ^ | October 13, 2011 | Lucy Steigerwald
Posted on October 18, 2011 11:44:26 PM EDT by Immerito

A few victims of the drug war's "standard procedure" are fighting back in court. First, a Colorado Springs woman who suffered a heart attack during a raid has brought a lawsuit:

Rose Ann Santistevan, 71, is suing for medical expenses and noneconomic losses such as pain and suffering.

An emphysema sufferer, Santistevan was alone in bed receiving oxygen on Oct. 6, 2009, when a multijurisdictional SWAT task force with a search warrant surrounded her home in the 200 block of South Prospect Street. They threw in a flash-bang grenade before rushing in with guns drawn, authorities have confirmed.

Stricken by a heart attack, Santistevan was admitted in critical condition at Memorial Hospital Central, where she remained for several days. A search of her home yielded no arrests and turned up no drugs, the family said.

(Excerpt) Read more at reason.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 21, 2011, 06:55:51 AM
Jawbreaker justice
bostonherald.com ^ | 10/21/2011 | Michael Graham




If the Occupy Boston movement has you convinced that America’s 20-somethings are spoiled brats waiting for someone else to solve all their problems, meet Anthony McKay of Swampscott.

McKay was at home celebrating his 29th birthday with his family when he heard someone outside breaking into his truck. While his wife called police, McKay confronted the would-be robber, who happened to be a druggie known in the neighborhood for carrying a knife.

McKay caught the robber, foiled the crime and — as an added bonus — broke the druggie’s jaw during their scuffle. It’s what I like to call “good news all around.”

And what is McKay’s reward for not being the guy who closes his door? For stepping up and doing the right thing?

He’s facing jail time, charged with assault and battery.

It seems the Swampland police plan to make an example of this solid citizen.

Police Sgt. Tim Cassidy told The Daily Item that citizens should leave the protection of your property and family to the police . . . period. “We don’t urge anybody to (fight back),” he said. “We want them to call us.”

The message from the cops is clear: If someone wants to rob you or your wife or kids, let ’em!


(Excerpt) Read more at bostonherald.com ...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Disgusting. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: pillowtalk on October 22, 2011, 03:52:57 AM
Into the fire - G20 Torronto.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuGKvLXQyJU

PT


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 23, 2011, 05:25:25 AM
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At least 93 Milwaukee police officers have been disciplined for violating law
Milwaukee J-S ^ | 23 oct 2011 | Gina Barton
Posted on October 23, 2011 8:24:25 AM EDT by rellimpank

At least 93 Milwaukee police officers - ranking from street cop to captain - have been disciplined for violating the laws and ordinances they were sworn to uphold, a Journal Sentinel investigation found.

Their offenses range from sexual assault and domestic violence to drunken driving and shoplifting, according to internal affairs records. All still work for the Police Department, where they have the authority to make arrests, testify in court and patrol neighborhoods.

Officers who run afoul of the law often aren't fired or prosecuted, the newspaper found. Consider:

At least six officers disciplined by the department for illegal behavior suffered no legal consequences whatsoever. One was Reginald Hampton, accused of sexually assaulting two women he met on duty. Another was Mark Kapusta, suspended after a woman said he pointed a gun at her head during a drunken road-rage incident. Neither officer was charged or ticketed.

Twenty-three officers got breaks from prosecutors that allowed them to avoid being convicted of serious charges - or any charges at all - as long as they didn't commit more crimes and followed prosecutors' instructions. One was Patrick Fuhrman, originally charged with a felony for a beating that sent his wife to the hospital and, according to a witness, left blood in every room of their house. A conviction on that charge could have gotten him fired from the department, banned from carrying a gun for life and imprisoned for 3½ years. Instead, he ended up with two tickets for disorderly conduct.

TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events; Click to Add Topic


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 24, 2011, 08:06:41 PM
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2011/10/24/stockton-homeowner-wants-police-to-fix-trashed-house



Disgraceful.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 25, 2011, 05:16:39 AM
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NYPD Officers Charged With Gun Running
Friends of Ours ^ | 10/25/11 | Friends of Ours
Posted on October 25, 2011 9:13:20 AM EDT by AtlasStalled

Eight current and former NYPD officers have been arrested "on federal charges including gun trafficking and conspiracy to smuggle cigarettes" as reported by William K. Rashbaum for The New York Times: "the charges allege that the officers — five are still on the force and three are retired — were involved in smuggling more than a dozen illegal handguns as well as M-16 rifles and shotguns, the people briefed on the case said."

It's been a rough month for the NYPD.

Earlier this month a former detective testified at the corruption trial of a fellow officer that "it was common practice to fabricate drug charges against innocent people to meet arrest quotas" in the Brooklyn South and Queens narcotic squads as reported by John Marzulli for the Daily News, and a Bronx grand jury indicted seventeen cops for their alleged roles in a wide-spread ticket-fixing ring within as reported by Erin Einhorn and Rocco Parascandola for the Daily News.

(Excerpt) Read more at bitterqueen.typepad.com ...






Nice.   Yeah, let's toss another 35 billion at the "first responders".   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on October 25, 2011, 11:14:27 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/ap-sources-5-nypd-officers-arrested-gun-sting-121040308.html



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 25, 2011, 11:16:50 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/ap-sources-5-nypd-officers-arrested-gun-sting-121040308.html



This story is on all our news stations today.  Also included cigarettes and slot machines.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on October 25, 2011, 08:00:41 PM
This story is on all our news stations today.  Also included cigarettes and slot machines.   

Yep. Glad they got caught. Apparently their internal affairs got wind of it and followed up. Good for them. I hate bad cops


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 28, 2011, 06:51:22 PM
Hundreds of union members back 16 NYPD cops in court over 'huge traffic ticket scam'
dailymail ^ | 10.28.11
Posted on October 28, 2011 10:22:49 PM EDT by InvisibleChurch

Hundreds of police union members turned up outside court today to support 16 New York policemen charged with abusing their authority by helping family and friends avoid paying traffic tickets.

The 13 officers, two sergeants, one lieutenant and five others were arraigned in a Bronx court on Friday after handing themselves in last night following a mammoth city investigation.

But union members made their voice heard by clogging the street near the courthouse, filling the hallways near the arraignment room and applauding in court after the officers left.

Patrick Lynch, president of the Patrolmen's Benevolent Association, said ticket fixing was sanctioned at the highest levels of the department, and he vowed that when the dust settled, they would prove it.

'Taking care of your family, taking care of your friends is not a crime,' he said. 'To take a courtesy and turn it into a crime is wrong.' The case began with a 2009 internal probe into Bronx officer Jose Ramos, who was suspected of associating with a drug dealer, officials said.

While listening to the NYPD officer's phone, investigators allegedly heard calls from people seeing if he could fix tickets for them. Ramos has been working for the department for nearly 18 years. He and his wife were arrested at their home on Thursday night. All other 15 policemen turned themselves in, reported the New York Post.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 30, 2011, 04:16:18 AM
Officers Jeer at Arraignment of 16 Colleagues in Ticket-Fixing Investigation
New York Times ^ | October 28, 2011 | N. R. KLEINFIELD and JOHN ELIGON
Posted on October 29, 2011 8:41:02 PM EDT by Immerito

A three-year investigation into the police’s habit of fixing traffic and parking tickets in the Bronx ended in the unsealing of indictments on Friday and a stunning display of vitriol by hundreds of off-duty officers, who converged on the courthouse to applaud their accused colleagues and denounce their prosecution.

As 16 police officers were arraigned at State Supreme Court in the Bronx, incensed colleagues organized by their union cursed and taunted prosecutors and investigators, chanting “Down with the D.A.” and “Ray Kelly, hypocrite.”

As the defendants emerged from their morning court appearance, a swarm of officers formed a cordon in the hallway and clapped as they picked their way to the elevators. Members of the news media were prevented by court officers from walking down the hallway where more than 100 off-duty police officers had gathered outside the courtroom.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on October 30, 2011, 06:30:24 AM
Hundreds of union members back 16 NYPD cops in court over 'huge traffic ticket scam'
dailymail ^ | 10.28.11
Posted on October 28, 2011 10:22:49 PM EDT by InvisibleChurch

Hundreds of police union members turned up outside court today to support 16 New York policemen charged with abusing their authority by helping family and friends avoid paying traffic tickets.

The 13 officers, two sergeants, one lieutenant and five others were arraigned in a Bronx court on Friday after handing themselves in last night following a mammoth city investigation.

But union members made their voice heard by clogging the street near the courthouse, filling the hallways near the arraignment room and applauding in court after the officers left.

Patrick Lynch, president of the Patrolmen's Benevolent Association, said ticket fixing was sanctioned at the highest levels of the department, and he vowed that when the dust settled, they would prove it.

'Taking care of your family, taking care of your friends is not a crime,' he said. 'To take a courtesy and turn it into a crime is wrong.' The case began with a 2009 internal probe into Bronx officer Jose Ramos, who was suspected of associating with a drug dealer, officials said.

While listening to the NYPD officer's phone, investigators allegedly heard calls from people seeing if he could fix tickets for them. Ramos has been working for the department for nearly 18 years. He and his wife were arrested at their home on Thursday night. All other 15 policemen turned themselves in, reported the New York Post.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...





WTF??

How can this be?  Agnostic told me that there's no such thing as the blue wall anymore.

hahahahahaha


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on October 30, 2011, 08:37:37 PM



WTF??

How can this be?  Agnostic told me that there's no such thing as the blue wall anymore.

hahahahahaha

I think I have said many a time Skip, I can't speak for other departments. Plus, how again was this practice of fixing tickets uncovered? Oh yeah, by other cops..


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on October 31, 2011, 06:17:23 PM
I think I have said many a time Skip, I can't speak for other departments. Plus, how again was this practice of fixing tickets uncovered? Oh yeah, by other cops..



Again??

Uh, I already clearly demonstrated you were a liar and the cops did not do shit.  Better go back and read tool.

You decided to claim "bad memory".  ::)

I have no idea who went after these cops and doubt you do either.  But, maybe when I have some free time I'll look into it.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 31, 2011, 06:21:19 PM
In my self defense class tonight I got the whole skinny from a cop in the Bronx in one of the precincts.  Told me five of the cops are in his precinct and detail.   Hve known this guy for about 6 years. 

here is what happened - cop who was on the take from a drug dealer got caught on a wiretap fixing a ticket.   From there the whole thing unraveled.   


cops did not uncover this, it was a dirty cop taking from the dealers that led to this. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on October 31, 2011, 06:39:12 PM
In my self defense class tonight I got the whole skinny from a cop in the Bronx in one of the precincts.  Told me five of the cops are in his precinct and detail.   Hve known this guy for about 6 years. 

here is what happened - cop who was on the take from a drug dealer got caught on a wiretap fixing a ticket.   From there the whole thing unraveled.   


cops did not uncover this, it was a dirty cop taking from the dealers that led to this. 



So one bad cop decided to roll.  I'm guessing to get his sentence reduced or plea bargain?



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 31, 2011, 06:43:25 PM


So one bad cop decided to roll.  I'm guessing to get his sentence reduced or plea bargain?



No one rolled at all.  It all got started on wiretap and unfolded from there. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on October 31, 2011, 06:45:53 PM
No one rolled at all.  It all got started on wiretap and unfolded from there. 


Ah, I see.  Interesting.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on October 31, 2011, 07:34:57 PM

Ah, I see.  Interesting.


I have many contacts skip!   

I love NYC on the one hand cause it's 24 7 and I am A man on the go 24 7, but I am tired bro. 


I haves lived this for 36 years.   I know the cops and the criminals. 


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on October 31, 2011, 08:42:08 PM


Again??

Uh, I already clearly demonstrated you were a liar and the cops did not do shit.  Better go back and read tool.

You decided to claim "bad memory".  ::)

I have no idea who went after these cops and doubt you do either.  But, maybe when I have some free time I'll look into it.

"While listening to the NYPD officer's phone, investigators allegedly heard calls from people seeing if he could fix tickets for them. Ramos has been working for the department for nearly 18 years. He and his wife were arrested at their home on Thursday night. All other 15 policemen turned themselves in, reported the New York Post.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on October 31, 2011, 08:47:22 PM
"The case evolved from a 2009 internal affairs probe of a Bronx officer suspected of associating with a drug dealer, officials said. While listening to the officer's phone, investigators heard calls from people seeing if he could fix tickets for them, they say."


on another thread there is video of an officer arresting another officer for speeding and reckless driving.



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on November 01, 2011, 01:37:49 PM
"While listening to the NYPD officer's phone, investigators allegedly heard calls from people seeing if he could fix tickets for them. Ramos has been working for the department for nearly 18 years. He and his wife were arrested at their home on Thursday night. All other 15 policemen turned themselves in, reported the New York Post.


And you know these investigators are cops?  Or members of the DA's office?  Or feds?  Or are you trying to play the old DA = top cop, etc.?

Whatever.  Yes, eventually other cops at some level have to arrest the bad ones.  If that's your pathetic attempt at denying the blue wall exists, then bahahahahahaha....how sad.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 06, 2011, 07:13:34 PM
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Cops suspected of illegal gun sales in Calfornia probe
sacbee.com ^ | 6 Nov 2011 | Sam Stanton
Posted on November 6, 2011 9:41:59 PM EST by smokingfrog

SACRAMENTO — The federal probe into suspected illegal gun sales by local law enforcement officers involves at least four major police agencies in the Sacramento region, officials confirmed Friday.

Two deputies from the Sacramento County Sheriff's Department, one Sacramento police officer and one Roseville police officer are the focus of the probe that spilled into the open Thursday, the Bee has learned.

In addition, a Sacramento firearms dealer allegedly involved with some of the officers is under investigation, sources said.

Agents from the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives served a number of search warrants Thursday at officers' homes and a Sacramento gun shop.

At least three officers were placed on administrative leave Thursday: the Roseville officer and the two Sacramento County sheriff's deputies.

Roseville Police Sgt. Cal Walstad confirmed one officer from his agency was placed on leave but said he could not name the officer or provide further details. Two deputies who worked out of the Sacramento County sheriff's Rio Cosumnes Correctional Center also were placed on leave Thursday, sources told The Bee.

Sacramento police confirmed that one of their officers is under investigation in the case but would not release details. In addition, a California Highway Patrol officer based in the Sacramento region is considered a witness in the case, CHP spokeswoman Fran Clader said.

Sheriff Scott Jones said he understands the public has a lot of unanswered questions about the investigation, including the number and type of weapons involved, the relationship among the targets and the people to whom the guns were being sold illegally.

"Frankly, they're all legitimate questions," he said.

But Jones said he cannot speak in detail about the case because it is ongoing and because the ATF is the lead agency.

(Excerpt) Read more at sacbee.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on November 07, 2011, 12:29:30 PM

And you know these investigators are cops?  Or members of the DA's office?  Or feds?  Or are you trying to play the old DA = top cop, etc.?

Whatever.  Yes, eventually other cops at some level have to arrest the bad ones.  If that's your pathetic attempt at denying the blue wall exists, then bahahahahahaha....how sad.

You need some help skip.. you went from semi reasonable to unpleasant overnight..


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on November 07, 2011, 04:38:30 PM
The fact you are blind to the fact is laughable.

True story... I know this girl who was beat up by her bf... His cousin is a sheriff in a local county, that sheriff made a call to the Judge in the county of the infraction and the girl's domestic case was immediately dismissed.

She didn't even get to say her mind in court, the judge simply heard 2 questions and the commonwealth attorney requested a dismissal and they granted it!

Sounds like you got a screwed up system up there... what are you doing about it?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on November 08, 2011, 04:23:47 PM
You need some help skip.. you went from semi reasonable to unpleasant overnight..



Nope, same guy.  I just see no point in lying.  You, on the other hand, seem to be very dishonest.  And if you're dishonest on a message board, I can only imagine what you're like at work.

I've said before, I think most cops are good.  Hell, my brother's a cop not far from you (but he's honest too).


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on November 08, 2011, 04:25:52 PM
I rail against it constantly.

However, I'm in the minority. Be honest.

Most people don't care because the system doesn't get everyone. It gets a small percentage and those people get shafted.

The powers that be are stalin-esque in that they follow a policy of benevolent dictatorship.

Take advantage of the few but allow the overall majority to feel as if it's working well enough for them.

When you screw over 1 in 50 or 1 in 100 the other 99 are happy and there is no upheaval. If you fucked over 1 out of 10 you would have a lot more malcontents.



Yes, this goes right back to my initial argument that people in public service fail to police themselves.  And that makes EVERYBODY else look bad.  We have to do a much better job.  Constant uphill battle with the unions sometimes, but sometimes we've got people who are just assholes.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on November 08, 2011, 05:18:21 PM


Nope, same guy.  I just see no point in lying.  You, on the other hand, seem to be very dishonest.  And if you're dishonest on a message board, I can only imagine what you're like at work.

I've said before, I think most cops are good.  Hell, my brother's a cop not far from you (but he's honest too).

Yeah skip, you are honest, your brother is honest, but I'm not... awesome conclusion based on... well, nothing.. but hell, that hasn't stopped you from concluding many things on these boards has it


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Hugo Chavez on November 08, 2011, 05:52:36 PM
Yeah skip, you are honest, your brother is honest, but I'm not... awesome conclusion based on... well, nothing.. but hell, that hasn't stopped you from concluding many things on these boards has it
Skip is probably one of the most reasonable people here IMO.  He's more willing to listen to opinions he may not like and answer in an unbias way or an understanding way even though he doesn't agree.  We would do good to have more people like Skip posting here.

His only fault that I can see, he's a Steelers fan :-\  


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on November 08, 2011, 06:59:50 PM
Skip is probably one of the most reasonable people here IMO.  He's more willing to listen to opinions he may not like and answer in an unbias way or an understanding way even though he doesn't agree.  We would do good to have more people like Skip posting here.

His only fault that I can see, he's a Steelers fan :-\ 



Ouch.  It's been a rough Mon and Tues too.  I was shit talking at work about how it's going to be hard for Baltimore to beat us twice in the same season, yada, yada...

Now I'm getting smacked around every 10 minutes or so.

Sucks...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Hugo Chavez on November 08, 2011, 07:12:20 PM


Ouch.  It's been a rough Mon and Tues too.  I was shit talking at work about how it's going to be hard for Baltimore to beat us twice in the same season, yada, yada...

Now I'm getting smacked around every 10 minutes or so.

Sucks...
You'll live ;D  I'm a Broncos fan and look at what I've had to cheer for year after year... not much...  If all you have to do is get a little shit.... lol... you can take it... ;D

At least Ben wears number 7 in honor of Elway ;D  That's about the only positive thing I see in that team lol...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 09, 2011, 02:06:17 PM
Pregnant mom: Sandwich arrest was horrifying
pantagraph.com ^ | 5 Nov 2011 | AP story

Posted on Wednesday, November 09, 2011 1:09:41 PM by smokingfrog

HONOLULU -- Nicole Leszczynski couldn't imagine that two chicken salad sandwiches would land her and her husband in jail and her 2-year-old daughter in state custody. But it happened five days ago, when the 30-weeks-pregnant woman forgot to pay for her snack while grocery shopping.

"It was the most ridiculous chain of events that happened," she said while sobbing Monday. "It's still hard to believe what happened."

Leszczynski, 28, and her husband Marcin, 33, were handcuffed, searched then released on $50 bail each. Their ordeal at the police station lasted a few hours, but their daughter Zofia spent the night away from her parents in a case that has sparked nationwide outrage and forced the Safeway supermarket chain to review the incident.

The family had moved to an apartment near downtown Honolulu from California two weeks ago. Still settling in, they ventured out Wednesday to stock up on groceries, took the bus, got lost, and ended up at a Safeway supermarket.

Famished, the former Air Force staff sergeant picked up the two sandwiches that together cost $5. She openly munched on one while they shopped, saving the wrapper to be scanned at the register later.

But they forgot to pay for the sandwiches as they checked out with about $50 worth of groceries.


(Excerpt) Read more at pantagraph.com ...



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Skip8282 on November 09, 2011, 03:53:21 PM
You'll live ;D  I'm a Broncos fan and look at what I've had to cheer for year after year... not much...  If all you have to do is get a little shit.... lol... you can take it... ;D

At least Ben wears number 7 in honor of Elway ;D  That's about the only positive thing I see in that team lol...



yeah, I think you all are like 3-5 or something?  I believe you play a little better on road.  Is KC taking lead in your division?


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 12, 2011, 12:25:34 PM
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Occupy Blue Wall Street?
The American Interest ^ | November 6, 2011 | Walter Russell Mead
Posted on November 12, 2011 2:46:15 PM EST by neverdem

New Yorkers are getting an uncomfortable look at the ugly realities behind what we like to think of as the country’s bluest, most European and most enlightened city. A series of trials now underway in the Bronx reveal the harsh truth of embedded corruption and contempt for the public at the heart (if that is the right word) of the New York City police union.

A palpably shocked New York Times covered the story last week as union-organized cops hurled their venom and hate at the law they are sworn to uphold:

As 16 police officers were arraigned at State Supreme Court in the Bronx, incensed colleagues organized by their union cursed and taunted prosecutors and investigators, chanting “Down with the D.A.” and “Ray Kelly, hypocrite.”

Many of the approximately 1,600 allegations against the Bronx 16 are low level ticket-fixing charges. In the Bronx (as in many other American jurisdictions) it has been a police perk for many years that officers can quietly fix tickets for family, friends and, one supposes, the occasional generous stranger. Those perks seem to reflect an informal, parallel power structure in the police force which gives long serving cops and union connected officers what those involved no doubt see as just and fair recompense for services rendered and dues paid...

(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.the-american-interest.com ...


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on November 13, 2011, 11:44:48 AM
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Occupy Blue Wall Street?
The American Interest ^ | November 6, 2011 | Walter Russell Mead
Posted on November 12, 2011 2:46:15 PM EST by neverdem

New Yorkers are getting an uncomfortable look at the ugly realities behind what we like to think of as the country’s bluest, most European and most enlightened city. A series of trials now underway in the Bronx reveal the harsh truth of embedded corruption and contempt for the public at the heart (if that is the right word) of the New York City police union.

A palpably shocked New York Times covered the story last week as union-organized cops hurled their venom and hate at the law they are sworn to uphold:

As 16 police officers were arraigned at State Supreme Court in the Bronx, incensed colleagues organized by their union cursed and taunted prosecutors and investigators, chanting “Down with the D.A.” and “Ray Kelly, hypocrite.”

Many of the approximately 1,600 allegations against the Bronx 16 are low level ticket-fixing charges. In the Bronx (as in many other American jurisdictions) it has been a police perk for many years that officers can quietly fix tickets for family, friends and, one supposes, the occasional generous stranger. Those perks seem to reflect an informal, parallel power structure in the police force which gives long serving cops and union connected officers what those involved no doubt see as just and fair recompense for services rendered and dues paid...

(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.the-american-interest.com ...


"and one supposes, the occasional generous stranger".......what ever happened to real news reporting .. ::)


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on November 14, 2011, 07:48:53 PM
Seriously dude?

So you read the entire article, and the one thing you mention is that that the statement of "the occasional generous stranger" isn't real news?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

You have got to be joking.



nah, dead serious. When I read an article for example and it is written by Fox news, I can't depend too much on the article being unbiased. When I read something or watch something on MSNBC I have to take it with a grain of salt because it is biased news. When someone is writing an article and leaves the fact reporting to start making suppositions that they have no idea are true or not, it again hurts the credibility. What the officers were doing and have done for years in my book is obviously wrong. That officers are defending their actions with "thats the way we've always done it and the administration knew and didnt care" doesnt make it right. It's a no brainer that doesnt need my comments. But I just miss the old school days of journalism where the news was reported and the authors biases were kept out for the most part.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 19, 2011, 08:49:21 AM
That cop really is a sadistic bully. 

What these power craven union thugs in the pd don't grasp is that it is crap like this that will make those on the fence feel sympathy for some of these kids. 

Maybe the next time this thug cop writes some bogus ticket or makes a false arrest to boost his bloated OT and pension, maybe, just, maybe, for once someone will pepper spray this thug till he coughes up blood.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjnR7xET7Uo



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 20, 2011, 08:22:59 PM
Family Says Police Killed Their Dogs and Slammed Grandmother to Ground
WHO-TV (NBC) Des Moines, Iowa ^ | November 18, 2011 | Aaron Brilbeck
Posted on November 20, 2011 8:50:57 PM EST by bamahead

Matthew Spaulding says he and his family were terrorized at their own home by police who slammed his grandmother to the ground and shot his dogs-- missing his head by less than an inch. "Told us to get on the ground. I got on the ground they put me in handcuffs," Spaulding recalls, "Then they threw my dad to the ground and my dog Sadie was right here sniffing my head. She was next to me. They shot her. The blood got on my face and then she took off running behind me and they shot her like three more times."

Tuesday morning, Greene County Sheriffs Deputies and Perry Police officers arrived at Spaulding's Jefferson farmhouse to deliver a search warrant. The Spauldings say they were immediately ordered to the ground.. even Matthew Spauldings' disabled father, Chris. "My son hit the ground I hit the ground but I didn't make it too fast so (the officer) jumped on the middle of my back, shoved his knee in and held a gun to the back of my head and handcuffed me. After they shot my first dog my mom come out"

"They had taken me to the ground," Chris Spauldings' mother Susan Mace says, "So I was laying with my face in the ground. And I asked them why they shot the dog because the dogs weren't close to them"

The Spauldings say after the first dog was killed, a second dog running away from the shots --- and away from police--- was also shot. "They weren't barking. They weren't attacking nobody." Matthew Spaulding says, "They didn't even give us a chance to put them in the kennel. We have a big kennel outside our house we could have put them in but they wouldn't give us a chance."

Perry Police are not commenting. And they're refusing to turn over any paperwork or reports about the incident saying it's part of an ongoing investigation. But we were able to get copies of the search warrants. One warrant shows police were looking for any kind of legal or illegal drugs. The other shows police were looking for a stolen X-Box video game system. No drugs and no stolen games were found--and no one was arrested.

Chris Spaulding says he's furious his dogs were killed--his mother was ruffed up and his son was almost killed by police---all over a missing video game system. "Some of these officers should be fired because they kinda took their job too far. No common sense. No public safety when you got a kid on the ground," he says, "That's messed up man. Right beside his head. You could have shot my son."



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on November 21, 2011, 11:02:55 AM
That cop really is a sadistic bully. 

What these power craven union thugs in the pd don't grasp is that it is crap like this that will make those on the fence feel sympathy for some of these kids. 

Maybe the next time this thug cop writes some bogus ticket or makes a false arrest to boost his bloated OT and pension, maybe, just, maybe, for once someone will pepper spray this thug till he coughes up blood.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjnR7xET7Uo



It's been our experience in dealing with similar protests that pepper spray is not the answer. The better option is to explain that they have to move, explain what will happen if they don't then calmly and methodically remove each person one by one. Had they skipped the pepper spray, it would have ended the same


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 26, 2011, 04:59:03 AM
Senate To Vote On Legislation That Allows U.S. Military to Detain Americans Without Charge or Trial
The SHTF.com ^ | 25 Nov, 2011 | Mac Slavo
Posted on November 25, 2011 6:06:35 PM EST by Errant



Remember that debate between Ron Paul and Newt Gingrich, where Mr. Gingrich suggested we should expand and strengthen the Patriot Act in the name of protecting US citizens from terrorists? Mr. Gingrich indicated that there exists a line between criminal law and the war on terror, and that we need not worry the government will overstep its bounds.

While Americans enjoy the Thanksgiving weekend and join the annual running of the bulls celebration at malls and retail outlets, something sinister is taking place in Congress – and it should scare the hell out of you. If the President and Senate have their way, your front lawn will soon become a battlefield, and you’ll be subjected to military, not criminal, law.

From the ACLU Via The Daily Sheeple:

The Senate is gearing up for a vote on Monday or Tuesday that goes to the very heart of who we are as Americans. The Senate will be voting on a bill that will direct American military resources not at an enemy shooting at our military in a war zone, but at American citizens and other civilians far from any battlefield — even people in the United States itself.

The Senate is going to vote on whether Congress will give this president—and every future president — the power to order the military to pick up and imprison without charge or trial civilians anywhere in the world. Even Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) raised his concerns about the NDAA detention provisions during last night’s Republican debate. The power is so broad that even U.S. citizens could be swept up by the military and the military could be used far from any battlefield, even within the United States itself.

The worldwide indefinite detention without charge or trial provision is in S. 1867, the National Defense Authorization Act bill, which will be on the Senate floor on Monday. The bill was drafted in secret by Sens. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) and passed in a closed-door committee meeting, without even a single hearing.

I know it sounds incredible. New powers to use the military worldwide, even within the United States? Hasn’t anyone told the Senate that Osama bin Laden is dead, that the president is pulling all of the combat troops out of Iraq and trying to figure out how to get combat troops out of Afghanistan too? And American citizens and people picked up on American or Canadian or British streets being sent to military prisons indefinitely without even being charged with a crime. Really? Does anyone think this is a good idea? And why now?

This is happening right now – IN AMERICA! A law that is designed to specifically bypass Constitutional protections and one that will undoubtedly be used against the American people to further advance and expand the national police state.

Once signed into law the President (or anyone of his minions within the Justice Department or Homeland Security acting on his behalf) can issue orders to arrest, detain and imprison an American citizen in the United States without due process. Since most terror arrests fall into the realm of national security, and therefore are secret, no evidence would ever need to be presented for the permanent detainment (and who knows what else) of an American imprisoned under this law.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 26, 2011, 11:29:40 AM
Driven By Drug War Incentives, Cops Target Pot Smokers, Brush Off Victims Of Violent Crime
11/25/11 11:20 AM ET Updated: 11/25/11 12:38 PM ET


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/21/drug-war-incentives-police-violent-crime_n_1105701.html




CHICAGO -- As Jessica Shaver and I chat at a coffee shop in Chicago's north-side Andersonville neighborhood, a police car pulls into the parking lot across the street. Then another. Two cops get out, lean up against their cars, and appear to gaze across traffic into the store. At times, they seem to be looking directly at us. Shaver, who works as an eyebrow waxer at a nearby spa, appears nervous.

"See what I mean? They follow me," says Shaver, 30. During several phone conversations Shaver told me that she thinks a small group of Chicago police officers are trying to intimidate her. These particular cops likely aren't following her; the barista tells me Chicago cops regularly stop in that particular parking lot to chat. But if Shaver is a bit paranoid, it's hard to blame her.

A year and a half ago she was beaten by a neighborhood thug outside of a city bar. It took months of do-it-yourself sleuthing, a meeting with a city alderman and a public shaming in a community newspaper before the Chicago Police Department would pay any attention to her. About a year later, Shaver got more attention from cops than she ever could have wanted: A team of Chicago cops took down her door with a battering ram and raided her apartment, searching for drugs.

Shaver has no evidence that the two incidents are related, and they likely aren't in any direct way. But they provide a striking example of how the drug war perverts the priorities of America's police departments. Federal anti-drug grants, asset forfeiture policies and a generation of battlefield rhetoric from politicians have made pursuing low-level drug dealers and drug users a top priority for police departments across the country. There's only so much time in the day, and the focus on drugs often comes at the expense of investigating violent crimes with victims like Jessica Shaver. In the span of about a year, she experienced both problems firsthand.

THE BATTERY

On the night of May 13, 2010, Shaver was smoking a cigarette with her friend Damon outside the Flat Iron bar in Wicker Park. She said she saw a woman walking away from the bar alone when two men began shouting profanities at her. The men then began walking toward the woman. "I made eye contact with her, and she looked like she was in trouble," Shaver said.

Shaver shouted at the men to leave the woman alone, at which point she says the the two men turned their attention to her, approached her, and began shouting at her. Damon told the men to leave Shaver alone. They jumped Damon and began to beat him. Shaver said she then tried to pry the men off her friend, and managed to free him long enough for him to get away and call 911. Shaver said she was punched repeatedly, including in the face. She fell, stood up, and was hit in the face again. The men then robbed her and left. When she woke up the next morning with bruises, she went to the hospital. Doctors found a concussion and several contusions.

Two weeks later, Shaver still hadn't heard from the detective assigned to her case. When she finally went to the police station in person to get an update on the investigation, she was told there was no record of the incident. She filed another report, but was told it was unlikely police would be able to track down the witnesses again, and that even if they were, the witnesses' memories were likely to have faded. Shaver says she decided to investigate on her own. She went back to the Flat Iron and questioned customers and employees herself. A bartender gave her the men's nicknames: "Cory" and "Sonny," the guy who hit her. Shaver learned that Sonny was also a reputed cocaine dealer. She heard he had a violent streak, and had been banned from a number of neighborhood bars.

"I was scared," Shaver said. "I'd heard bad things about this guy, and he knew who I was."

Shaver is thoroughly tattooed, which makes her easy to recognize. So she dyed her hair, covered her tattoos with clothing, and kept investigating. She worked her way through social networking sites like Facebook and MySpace until she was able to put actual names to her attackers' faces and nicknames. And yet she still couldn't get anyone at Chicago PD to help her. "I gave them the guy's name and everything," she said. "There were even hip hop videos online with him in them. I told them, 'That's the guy!' They still wouldn't listen to me."

In August 2010, three months after the attack, Shaver contacted a reporter for Time Out Chicago, who began asking around about her case. Shaver also met with Chicago Alderman Joe Marino. Shortly before the Time Out article went to press, a detective finally called Shaver down to the police station to identify her attacker. But even with her identification, the police didn't arrest "Sonny." He wasn't charged with the assault until the following month, when he was arrested on an unrelated domestic violence charge.

Shortly after she finally identified her attacker at the police station, Shaver said the detective in charge of her case told her, "Now I don't want to hear any more bitching from you."

MISPLACED PRIORITIES

Arresting people for assaults, beatings and robberies doesn't bring money back to police departments, but drug cases do in a couple of ways. First, police departments across the country compete for a pool of federal anti-drug grants. The more arrests and drug seizures a department can claim, the stronger its application for those grants.

"The availability of huge federal anti-drug grants incentivizes departments to pay for SWAT team armor and weapons, and leads our police officers to abandon real crime victims in our communities in favor of ratcheting up their drug arrest stats," said former Los Angeles Deputy Chief of Police Stephen Downing. Downing is now a member of Law Enforcement Against Prohibition, an advocacy group of cops and prosecutors who are calling for an end to the drug war.

"When our cops are focused on executing large-scale, constitutionally questionable raids at the slightest hint that a small-time pot dealer is at work, real police work preventing and investigating crimes like robberies and rapes falls by the wayside," Downing said.

And this problem is on the rise all over the country. Last year, police in New York City arrested around 50,000 people for marijuana possession. Pot has been decriminalized in New York since 1977, but displaying the drug in public is still a crime. So police officers stop people who look "suspicious," frisk them, ask them to empty their pockets, then arrest them if they pull out a joint or a small amount of marijuana. They're tricked into breaking the law. According to a report from Queens College sociologist Harry Levine, there were 33,775 such arrests from 1981 to 1995. Between 1996 and 2010 there were 536,322.

Several NYPD officers have alleged that in some precincts, police officers are asked to meet quotas for drug arrests. Former NYPD narcotics detective Stephen Anderson recently testified in court that it's common for cops in the department to plant drugs on innocent people to meet those quotas -- a practice for which Anderson himself was then on trial.

At the same time, there's increasing evidence that the NYPD is paying less attention to violent crime. In an explosive Village Voice series last year, current and former NYPD officers told the publication that supervising officers encouraged them to either downgrade or not even bother to file reports for assault, robbery and even sexual assault. The theory is that the department faces political pressure to produce statistics showing that violent crime continues to drop. Since then, other New Yorkers have told the Voice that they have been rebuffed by NYPD when trying to report a crime.



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Option D on November 28, 2011, 07:28:09 AM
Police State

http://nation.foxnews.com/newt-gingrich/2011/11/22/gingrich-and-paul-debate-patriot-act


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on November 28, 2011, 07:59:06 AM
Senate Moves To Allow Military To Intern Americans Without Trial
         

NDAA detention provision would turn America into a “battlefield”

Paul Joseph Watson
Infowars.com
Monday, November 28, 2011




The Senate is set to vote on a bill today that would define the whole of the United States as a “battlefield” and allow the U.S. Military to arrest American citizens in their own back yard without charge or trial.

“The Senate is going to vote on whether Congress will give this president—and every future president — the power to order the military to pick up and imprison without charge or trial civilians anywhere in the world. The power is so broad that even U.S. citizens could be swept up by the military and the military could be used far from any battlefield, even within the United States itself,” writes Chris Anders of the ACLU Washington Legislative Office.

Under the ‘worldwide indefinite detention without charge or trial’ provision of S.1867, the National Defense Authorization Act bill, which is set to be up for a vote on the Senate floor this week, the legislation will “basically say in law for the first time that the homeland is part of the battlefield,” said Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.), who supports the bill.

The bill was drafted in secret by Senators Carl Levin (D-Mich.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.), before being passed in a closed-door committee meeting without any kind of hearing. The language appears in sections 1031 and 1032 of the NDAA bill.

“I would also point out that these provisions raise serious questions as to who we are as a society and what our Constitution seeks to protect,” Colorado Senator Mark Udall said in a speech last week. One section of these provisions, section 1031, would be interpreted as allowing the military to capture and indefinitely detain American citizens on U.S. soil. Section 1031 essentially repeals the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 by authorizing the U.S. military to perform law enforcement functions on American soil. That alone should alarm my colleagues on both sides of the aisle, but there are other problems with these provisions that must be resolved.”

A d v e r t i s e m e n t
This means Americans could be declared domestic terrorists and thrown in a military brig with no recourse whatsoever. Given that the Department of Homeland Security has characterized behavior such as buying gold, owning guns, using a watch or binoculars, donating to charity, using the telephone or email to find information, using cash, and all manner of mundane behaviors as potential indicators of domestic terrorism, such a provision would be wide open to abuse.

“American citizens and people picked up on American or Canadian or British streets being sent to military prisons indefinitely without even being charged with a crime. Really? Does anyone think this is a good idea? And why now?” asks Anders.

The ACLU is urging citizens to call their Senator and demand that the Udall Amendment be added to the bill, a change that would at least act as a check to prevent Americans being snatched off the streets without some form of Congressional oversight.

We have been warning for over a decade that Americans would become the target of laws supposedly aimed at terrorists and enemy combatants. Alex Jones personally documented how U.S. troops were being trained to arrest U.S. citizens in the event of martial law during urban warfare training drills back in the 90′s. Under the the National Defense Authorization Act bill, no declaration of martial law is necessary since Americans would now be subject to the same treatment as suspected insurgents in places like Afghanistan and Iraq.

If you thought that the executive assassination of American citizens abroad was bad enough, now similar powers will be extended to the “homeland,” in other words, your town, your community, your back yard.

*********************

Paul Joseph Watson is the editor and writer for Prison Planet.com. He is the author of Order Out Of Chaos. Watson is also a regular fill-in host for The Alex Jones Show.



Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 05, 2011, 11:57:30 AM
http://boston.cbslocal.com/2011/12/02/7-year-old-accused-of-possible-sexual-harassment-for-kicking-boy-in-groin




We have lost our fucking minds as a country.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 21, 2011, 07:03:13 AM
Local Cops Ready for War With Homeland Security-Funded Military Weapons

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/12/20/local-cops-ready-for-war-with-homeland-security-funded-military-weapons.html



A decade of billions in spending in the name of homeland security has armed local police departments with military-style equipment and a new commando mentality. But has it gone too far? Andrew Becker and G.W. Schulz of the Center for Investigative Reporting report.

by Andrew Becker  (/contributors/andrew-becker.html) , G. W. Schulz  (/contributors/g--w--schulz.html)  | December 21, 2011 4:45 AM EST


Nestled amid plains so flat the locals joke you can watch your dog run away for miles, Fargo treasures its placid lifestyle, seldom pierced by the mayhem and violence common in other urban communities. North Dakota (/cheats/2011/12/12/police-use-predator-drones.html) ’s largest city has averaged fewer than two homicides a year since 2005, and there’s not been a single international terrorism prosecution in the last decade.

But that hasn’t stopped authorities in Fargo and its surrounding county from going on an $8 million buying spree to arm police officers with the sort of gear once reserved only for soldiers fighting foreign wars.

Every city squad car is equipped today with a military-style assault rifle, and officers can don Kevlar helmets able to withstand incoming fire from battlefield-grade ammunition. And for that epic confrontation—if it ever occurs—officers can now summon a new $256,643 armored truck, complete with a rotating turret. For now, though, the menacing truck is used mostly for training and appearances at the annual city picnic, where it’s been parked near the children’s bounce house.

“Most people are so fascinated by it, because nothing happens here,” says Carol Archbold, a Fargo resident and criminal justice professor at North Dakota State University. “There’s no terrorism here.”

Like Fargo, thousands of other local police departments nationwide have been amassing stockpiles of military-style equipment in the name of homeland security, aided by more than $34 billion in federal grants since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, a Daily Beast investigation conducted by the Center for Investigative Reporting (http://centerforinvestigativereporting.org/)  has found.

Interactive Map: States Spend Billions on Homeland Security (http://projects.cironline.org/police-grants) 
 Atlanta Police S.W.A.T. members searched a building for a shooting suspect in July of 2010., John Bazemore

The buying spree has transformed local police departments into small, army-like forces, and put intimidating equipment into the hands of civilian officers. And that is raising questions about whether the strategy has gone too far, creating a culture and capability that jeopardizes public safety and civil rights while creating an expensive false sense of security.

“The argument for up-armoring is always based on the least likely of terrorist scenarios,” says Mark Randol, a former terrorism expert at the Congressional Research Service, the nonpartisan research arm of Congress. “Anyone can get a gun and shoot up stuff. No amount of SWAT equipment can stop that.”

Local police bristle at the suggestion that they’ve become “militarized,” arguing the upgrade in firepower and other equipment is necessary to combat criminals with more lethal capabilities. They point to the 1997 Los Angeles-area bank robbers who pinned police for hours with assault weapons, the gun-wielding student who perpetrated the Virginia Tech massacre in 2007, and the terrorists who waged a bloody rampage in Mumbai, India (/articles/2009/11/19/reliving-mumbais-911.html) , that left 164 people dead and 300 wounded in 2008.

The new weaponry and battle gear, they insist, helps save lives in the face of such threats. “I don’t see us as militarizing police; I see us as keeping abreast with society,” former Los Angeles Police chief William Bratton says. “And we are a gun-crazy society.”

“I don’t see us as militarizing police; I see us as keeping abreast with society.”

Adds Fargo Police Lt. Ross Renner, who commands the regional SWAT team: “It’s foolish to not be cognizant of the threats out there, whether it’s New York, Los Angeles, or Fargo. Our residents have the right to be protected. We don’t have everyday threats here when it comes to terrorism, but we are asked to be prepared.”

The skepticism about the Homeland spending spree is less severe for Washington, D.C., Los Angeles and New York, which are presumed to be likelier targets. But questions persist about whether money was handed out elsewhere with any regard for risk assessment or need. And the gap in accounting for the decade-long spending spree is undeniable. The U.S. Homeland Security Department says it doesn’t closely track what’s been bought with its tax dollars or how the equipment is used. State and local governments don’t maintain uniform records either.

To assess the changes in law enforcement for The Daily Beast, the Center for Investigative Reporting conducted interviews and reviewed grant spending records obtained through open records requests in 41 states. The probe found stockpiles of weaponry and military-style protective equipment worthy of a defense contractor’s sales catalog.

In Montgomery County, Texas, the sheriff’s department owns a $300,000 pilotless surveillance drone, like those used to hunt down al Qaeda terrorists in the remote tribal regions of Pakistan and Afghanistan. In Augusta, Maine, with fewer than 20,000 people and where an officer hasn’t died from gunfire in the line of duty in more than 125 years, police bought eight $1,500 tactical vests. Police in Des Moines, Iowa, bought two $180,000 bomb-disarming robots, while an Arizona sheriff is now the proud owner of a surplus Army tank.

The flood of money opened to local police after 9/11, but slowed slightly in recent years. Still, the Department of Homeland Security awarded more than $2 billion in grants to local police in 2011, and President Obama’s 2009 American Recovery and Reinvestment Act contributed an additional half-billion dollars.

Law enforcement officials say the armored vehicles, assault weapons, and combat uniforms used by their officers provide a public safety benefit beyond their advertised capabilities, creating a sort of “shock and awe” experience they hope will encourage suspects to surrender more quickly.

“The only time I hear the complaint of ‘God, you guys look scary’ is if the incident turns out to be nothing,” says West Hartford, Conn., Police Lt. Jeremy Clark, who organizes an annual SWAT competition.

A grainy YouTube video from one of Clark’s recent competitions shows just how far the police transformation has come, displaying officers in battle fatigues, helmets, and multi-pocketed vests storming a hostile scene. One with a pistol strapped to his hip swings a battering ram into a door. A colleague lobs a flash-bang grenade into a field. Another officer, holding a pistol and wearing a rifle strapped to his back, peeks cautiously inside a bus.

The images unfold to the pulsing, ominous soundtrack of a popular videogame, Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 (/cheats/2010/11/11/ldquocall-of-dutyrdquo-biggest-videogame-launch-ever.html) . Though resembling soldiers in a far-flung war zone, the stars of this video are Massachusetts State Police troopers.

The number of SWAT teams participating in Clark’s event doubled to 40 between 2004 and 2009 as Homeland’s police funding swelled. The competition provides real-life scenarios for training, and Clark believes it is essential, because he fears many SWAT teams are falling below the 16 hours of minimum monthly training recommended by the National Tactical Officers Association.

“Luck is not for cops. Luck is for drunks and fools,” Clark said, explaining his devotion to training.

One beneficiary of Homeland’s largesse are military contractors, who have found a new market for their wares and sponsor training events like the one Clark oversees in Connecticut or a similar Urban Shield event held in California.

Special ops supplier Blackhawk Industries, founded by a former Navy SEAL, was among several Urban Shield sponsors this year. Other sponsors for such training peddle wares like ThunderSledge breaching tools for smashing open locked or chained doors, Lenco Armored Vehicles bulletproof box trucks, and KDH Defense Systems’s body armor.

“As criminal organizations are increasingly armed with military-style weapons, law enforcement operations require the same level of field-tested and combat-proven protection used by soldiers and Marines in Iraq, Afghanistan, and other high-risk locations,” boasts an Oshkosh Corp. brochure at a recent police seminar, where the company pitched its “tactical protector vehicle.”

The trend shows no sign of abating. The homeland security market for state and local agencies is projected to reach $19.2 billion by 2014, up from an estimated $15.8 billion in fiscal 2009, according to the Homeland Security Research Corp.

The rise of equipment purchases has paralleled an apparent increase in local SWAT teams, but reliable numbers are hard to come by. The National Tactical Officers Association, which provides training and develops SWAT standards, says it currently has about 1,650 team memberships, up from 1,026 in 2000.

Many of America’s newly armed officers are ex-military veterans from the front lines of Iraq and Afghanistan. Charles Ramsey, who was police chief in Washington, D.C., on 9/11, upgraded the weaponry when he moved to Philadelphia in 2008. Today, some 1,500 Philly beat cops are trained to use AR-15 assault rifles.

“We have a lot of people here, like most departments, who are ex-military,” Ramsey says. “Some people are very much into guns and so forth. So it wasn’t hard to find volunteers.”

Some real-life episodes, however, are sparking a debate about whether all that gear also creates a more militarized mind-set for local police that exceeds their mission or risks public safety.

In one case, dozens of officers in combat-style gear raided a youth rave in Utah as a police helicopter buzzed overhead. An online video shows the battle-ready team wearing masks and brandishing rifles as they holler for the music to be shut off and pin partygoers to the ground.

And Arizona tactical officers this year sprayed the home of ex-Marine Jose Guerena with gunfire as he stood in a hallway with a rifle that he did not fire. He was hit 22 times and died. Police had targeted the man’s older brother in a narcotics-trafficking probe, but nothing illegal was found in the younger Guerena’s home, and no related arrests had been made months after the raid.

In Maryland, officials finally began collecting data on tactical raids after police in 2008 burst into the home of a local mayor and killed his two dogs in a case in which the mayor’s home was used as a dropoff for drug deal. The mayor’s family had nothing to do with criminal activity.

Such episodes and the sheer magnitude of the expenditures over the last decade raise legitimate questions about whether taxpayers have gotten their money’s worth and whether police might have assumed more might and capability than is necessary for civilian forces.

“With local law enforcement, their mission is to solve crimes after they’ve happened, and to ensure that people’s constitutional rights are protected in the process,” says Jesselyn McCurdy, senior legislative counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union. “The military obviously has a mission where they are fighting an enemy. When you use military tactics in the context of law enforcement, the missions don’t match, and that’s when you see trouble with the overmilitarization of police.”

The upgrading of local police nonetheless continues. Arizona Sheriff Joe Arpaio (/articles/2011/12/16/sheriff-joe-arpaio-slammed-in-federal-civil-rights-probe-report.html)  now claims to operate his own air armada of private pilots—dubbed Operation Desert Sky—to monitor illegal border crossings, and he recently added a full-size surplus Army tank. New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly boasted this fall he had a secret capability to shoot down an airliner if one threatened the city again. And the city of Ogden, Utah, is launching a 54-foot, remote-controlled “crime-fighting blimp” with a powerful surveillance camera.

Back in Fargo, nearby corn and soybean farmer Tim Kozojed supports the local police but questions whether the Homeland grants have been spent wisely. ”I’m very reluctant to get anxious about a terrorist attack in North Dakota,” Kozojed, 31, said. “Why would they bother?”

Tags:
•U.S. Politics (/politics.html)
©2011 The Newsweek/Daily Beast Company LLC






Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 24, 2011, 05:35:16 PM
America as a Totalitarian Dictatorship
SATURDAY, 24 DECEMBER 2011 07:43 RAY PEACH





Since my first deployment to South East Asia, I have seen this great country gradually slip away. America has gone from being the world's greatest creditor nation, standing as a beacon of hope for the world, to the world's biggest debtor nation, where 42 million Americans rely on food stamps to survive. All of this prompted me to write a book, where I detail how this all came about, and how America will end. This isn't some conspiracy theory, it is happening right now in front of us. Like it or not, America is a Totalitarian Dictatorship, and this article will help you understand why.

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After the Oklahoma City Bombing, my job required that I attend a two-day briefing on counter terrorism. At that meeting, several people from the DoD, NSA, and FBI repeatedly stated that the biggest threat to National Security was domestic terrorism. The specific examples they provided were members of the National Rifle Association, Right to Life Organizations, Military Veterans, and others who were merely exercising their constitutional rights, or in some cases, doing nothing at all. Myself and others were encouraged to engage in a program where we would report on coworkers, employees, and neighbors about such things as “subversive” bumper stickers. Since it’s the role of the government to protect constitutional rights, including the freedom of speech, I understood this was no longer a country dedicated to liberty and the rule of law – since none of these activities are illegal.

Obama’s Marxist mentor, Zbigniew Brzezinski, and his associate, Carl Friedrich, equated socialism and totalitarianism saying, “[It] is a system of revolution, which seeks to destroy the existing political order so it can be changed economically, socially, and culturally.” so as to comply with socialist ideology. “Totalitarian movements, motivated by the general goals which their ideologies outline, have thus not stopped at the seizure of power.”

In reality, while socialists are constantly talking about how great things will be, stated plans are never realized, because the elite never had any intention of implementing them in the first place. To hide this, socialists say that things would have worked, if only the elite had more power, money, or time. Failure is always someone else’s fault.

The intent of a socialist regime is to increase the political control of the elite, or to maintain the status quo. However, as Utopian symbols are replaced with political reality and the economy starts to fail, the state must incrementally apply pressure and violence to maintain control. This creates a problem for the state, as a free society is composed of interlocking and overlapping groups with various interests. It is almost impossible to subject one social group to punitive, or “re-educative,” measures without producing a hostile reaction, not only from the group concerned, but also from other groups, whose vested interests dictate their response. In time the socialists really have no choice but to resort to massive terror. Totalitarian terror is, therefore, the vital nerve of the socialist system.

The compulsive emphasis on the total support of the regime forms part of, “the great universal religion” that mirrors the Hebrew-Christian faith, while persecuting all heretics. In time, the dissenter commits an intolerable offense to the grandeur of the socialist enterprise, and must be liquidated because he or she has no place in a world that the socialist movement is bent on building. The bourgeoisie (middle class), the Christians, and the Hebrews remain outside of that unanimity and are therefore traitors. Terror makes certain that the masses are not infected, while the misfits are liquidated. In this way, all brutal premeditated violence and terror becomes rationally justified to the socialist. The citizen’s support for the state’s use of terror must be active not passive; and in time all members are expected to participate in whatever ritual of violence is required of them.

At first, terror centers on the liquidation of open and secret resistance but soon moves to the hunt for “potential enemies.” Only in this later stage does terrorism come into its own, as it aims to fill everyone with fear and vents its full passion against humanity.  The state hunts actual or potential enemies, and in many cases, actual enemies are purposely passed over in favor of the liquidation of innocent people, so as to instill fear in everyone. Soon terror reigns supreme as the bodies’ pile high and the corpses rot and stink.  Lenin summed this up when he said, “When the old society dies, the corpse of bourgeois society cannot be nailed down in a coffin and put in the grave. It decomposes in our midst, this corpse rots and contaminates us.”

A Terroristic State Police

Friedrich and Brzezinski make no secret that the plans for the destruction of our existing society are total, and will lead to a massive use of terror.  This has always been the case with such plans, as any reader of communist or fascist history can tell you. In every respect, human life and the nature of social existence is subjected to extensive revisions; provided for in the ideology and the subsequent expedient requirements of the new order.

The history of socialism tells us that, socialist dictatorships initially adopt a step-by-step program that gradually increases in violence.  When the cognitive strain between dogma and reality becomes so great that it can no longer hold its illusion, massive terror becomes necessary to maintain the party’s grip on power. In 1934, this was officially made part of Soviet law, giving the MVD (secret police) a free hand in political cases. Similarly, the German Gestapo dispensed “justice” through administrative processes from which there was no appeal. Eventually torture, murder, purges, and concentration camps became a way of life, where no legal procedure was followed at all.

The machinery of terror is based on defending the “people” from its “enemies,” and is glorified for its heroism and efficiency. It relies on a pliable criminal code that broadly defines a political offense in terms of its potential threat to the state (the people). Socialism depends on a national system of terroristic police to control and supervise party members and non-party members, exploiting modern science – including scientific psychology.  Supervision and enforcement of such laws requires a national court system that is structured on socialist ideals, the abject degradation of police and judicial procedures, and a disregard for the stated purpose of the law.

While at the Harvard School of Government in the 1970s, Carl Friedrich taught that the state has a monopoly on violence, along with the right to use it whenever the elite deem it appropriate.  Friedrich pointed out that in socialist states, the role of the police consisted of enforcing the socialist agenda, not with protecting the citizen, or maintaining law and order. He said that with the coming authoritarian American state, the role of the police would be “vastly expanded” to enforce extensive new regulations and views on morality, saying, “The guardian of law and order is no longer… the protector of the weak against the strong and the attacker, but the agent of the government in all its ramifications”.   One of Friedrich’s students was George Bush (V2.0).

In 2009, the Rand Corporation developed a report entitled, “A Stability Police Force for the United States, Justification and Options for Creating US Capabilities.” The stated purpose of this police force is to merge the functions of the Department of Homeland Security with military units to create a “high end” police force like those currently being developed in Europe. This organization would have jurisdiction over local civilian police departments. The report provides information on funding, manpower, training, and political considerations. It makes no secret that it is directed against the U.S. citizen.

According to the Whitehouse web site, on January 11, 2010 Obama signed an executive order for the “Establishment of the Council of Governors,” granting the president the authority to appoint a ten-person council to rule the country in case of an emergency, further expanding NSPD-51 and HSPD-20.  Max Weber did a similar thing in Weimar Germany after WWI when he worked to create Article 48 that would give the German Chancellor dictatorial powers in case of an emergency.  Hitler took advantage of Article 48 by having his own Storm Troopers burn down the Reichstag (German Parliament) while blaming it on the Jews. Using this as a pretext Hitler then declared martial law and the world would never be the same.

Things had been somewhat different in Russia where the Tsarist government, mostly through manipulation and propaganda, was regarded as being too corrupt and evil to support. Not realizing that the Bolsheviks were much worse, the average Russian, including the Army and Navy, would no longer support the existing government. As a result the Bolsheviks literally just walked in and took over.  It was only after the hope and change occurred did the Bolsheviks show that they were infinitely worse than the Tsars had ever even been purported to be, igniting revolution.

The Crossover

Friedrich & Brzezinski said the end of America would come with the acceptance of fraud, especially the acceptance of propagandistic fraud on a large scale, followed by the ideological acceptance of force and violence. Not so much physical violence at first but psychological violence that is done to the mind and to moral sentiment. Friedrich and Brzezinski predicted 50 years ago that this would be the result of the ice cold reasoning of an ideology that is built on pseudoscientific principles.  The final phase, they said, would be rapid radicalization, the seizure of power, and the total transformation of the economic system. This would soon be accompanied with use of physical violence and terrorism on a large scale, along with the liquidation of enemies of the state.

As I write this, Obama has said he will sign a bill that will remove all pretext of law in this country. It injects the military directly into domestic affairs, giving them the ability to detain and execute, without trial, any American Citizen they want to in the US - simply by calling them a terrorist. Say goodbye to Posse Comitatus.

While this is portrayed as a mechanism for protecting Americans from Al-Qaeda, section 802 of the USA PATRIOT Act (Pub. L. No. 107-52) expands the definition of terrorism to cover “domestic,” as opposed to international, terrorism.   A person engages in domestic terrorism if they do an act “dangerous to human life” that is a violation of the criminal laws of a state or the United States, if the act appears to be intended to:  (i) intimidate or coerce a civilian population; (ii) influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or (iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination or kidnapping.  Additionally, the acts have to occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States and if they do not, may be regarded as international terrorism.

Another provision of the USA PATRIOT Act entitled “Disclosure of educational records - Sec. 507.” This section requires a judge to issue an order permitting the government to obtain private educational records if the Attorney General or his designee certifies that the records are necessary for investigating domestic or international terrorism.  No independent judicial finding is required to verify that the records are relevant.  This means that the Attorney General may obtain the private educational records by asserting that the records are relevant to a domestic terrorism investigation.  These records may include information such as a student's grades, private medical information and counseling, which organizations the student belonged to, or any other information that the educational institution collects about its students.

This means that anyone can be called a terrorist if the government says they are, if it merely appears that someone wants to intimidate or coerce someone else; but the definition of intimidation and coercion have been redefined under hate crime legislation, where the mere appearance of improper thought represents terrorism as evidenced by anything the state wants, including the church, school, or classes you attended. Today people and organizations listed as terrorists include: The TEA Party, people who pay in cash, military veterans, and anyone else exercising their right to disagree with the Government.

To further illustrate the real meaning of this legislation, it should be pointed out that in 2009, La Raza member Sonia Sotomayor was appointed to the U.S. Supreme Court, although she and her organization have a history of advocating the violent overthrow the United States. Just 48 hours after Obama announced her nomination, George Bush (v2.0), Carl Rove, and John McCain attended a La Raza meeting, where they voiced their approval of the radical organization. This and other actions such as refusing to control the boarders, shows that the target of the Federal government is middle class America.

Simultaneously with the decision to throw the concept of a “trail by a Jury of your peers” out the window, DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano has announced the activation of detention camps around the nation, under the guise of housing large number of illegal aliens. However, the DHS has also announced they are reducing the number of border patrol agents by half, and are not working to detain or deport illegals, so this argument is obviously false.  These camps were constructed under a 2006 contract with Halliburton, again for the supposed detention of illegal immigrants.

America as a Totalitarian Dictatorship

A dictatorship is defined as an autocratic system of government that is ruled by an individual. A totalitarian government is one where every aspect of human behavior is controlled by the state, defining right, wrong, good and evil – where all disagreement is forbidden

As I am writing this, Obama is suing the State of Arizona for passing a law that essentially says that they will enforce existing Federal Statutes. In the suit, Obama’s argument is that Presidential policy trumps Federal and State statutes, and a federal judge agreed. Meanwhile, Congress did nothing - making this a dictatorship. In September, a Christian schoolboy was suspended from Western Hills High School in Texas for saying he thought that being a homosexual is wrong - making this a totalitarian dictatorship.

The American people have been complacent for too long, and they need to wake up. On January 5th, 1967 Ronald Reagan said, “Freedom is a fragile thing and is never more than one generation away from extinction. It is not ours by inheritance; it must be fought for and defended constantly by each generation, for it comes only once to a people. Those who have known freedom and then lost it have never known it again.”

It’s this generation’s turn and if we choose to ignore the call because our favorite show is on TV, the next generation won’t have any hope at all.

Copyright © 2011

Mr. Peach (visit his website)  is a retired engineer who spent a great deal of his life traveling the world to solve problems for fortune 500 companies and the U.S. Government. After serving 8 years in U.S. Naval Air he went to work for Litton Guidance Systems as a field engineer, working in the Middle East and Asia. For the next 12 years he worked as a systems engineer for Hughes Aircraft where he was involved with the F-14D, F-15E, and the F/A-18 tactical aircraft...........read more


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Shockwave on December 24, 2011, 06:32:57 PM
Wow.....
He makes a lot of very valid points....
And low and behold.... no party line bullshit.
Very good read from someone who can look beyond the bullshit and see what is really happening, something so many others cant.


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 26, 2011, 04:01:32 PM
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-terror-checkpoints-20111220,0,3213641.story



Awesome - Obama and Janet Incompetano greatly expanding the TSA.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 27, 2011, 12:47:17 PM
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1211/70878.html



Do these pofs ever stop?    The SOPA Act is a disaster.   


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 30, 2011, 07:44:04 AM
In futile car search for drugs, Pompton Lakes police inflict $12K worth of damage (Asset Forfieture)
NJ.com ^ | December 29, 2011 | James Queally




When Pompton Lakes police seized Darren Richardson’s car on a rainy September afternoon, they told him it was headed for an impound lot. When they returned it three weeks later, he says, the 2004 BMW belonged in a junk yard.

The instrument cluster and leather dashboard were gone. The caramel-colored seats were torn up. The gear shift was ripped out and stray wires hung limp everywhere. Geico, Richardson’s insurance company estimated the damage at $12,636.42 — more than he paid for the car — and declared the vehicle a "total loss."

According to police reports, the damage to the black BMW 325i came in the aftermath of a traffic stop during which officers detected a "strong odor of raw marijuana" inside the vehicle. Searching for a cache of drugs, members of three different police agencies and a detective from a federal drug task force spent two days tearing the car apart, the reports said.

So what did police find after their $12,000 search?

Absolutely nothing.

Richardson, 28, of the Haskell section of Wanaque, filed a notice of claim against the department last week, seeking damages for false arrest and malicious prosecution. He also said Geico may sue the department to recoup the cost of the claim it has already paid to Richardson.


(Excerpt) Read more at nj.com ...


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Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Agnostic007 on December 30, 2011, 07:51:40 AM
In futile car search for drugs, Pompton Lakes police inflict $12K worth of damage (Asset Forfieture)
NJ.com ^ | December 29, 2011 | James Queally




When Pompton Lakes police seized Darren Richardson’s car on a rainy September afternoon, they told him it was headed for an impound lot. When they returned it three weeks later, he says, the 2004 BMW belonged in a junk yard.

The instrument cluster and leather dashboard were gone. The caramel-colored seats were torn up. The gear shift was ripped out and stray wires hung limp everywhere. Geico, Richardson’s insurance company estimated the damage at $12,636.42 — more than he paid for the car — and declared the vehicle a "total loss."

According to police reports, the damage to the black BMW 325i came in the aftermath of a traffic stop during which officers detected a "strong odor of raw marijuana" inside the vehicle. Searching for a cache of drugs, members of three different police agencies and a detective from a federal drug task force spent two days tearing the car apart, the reports said.

So what did police find after their $12,000 search?

Absolutely nothing.

Richardson, 28, of the Haskell section of Wanaque, filed a notice of claim against the department last week, seeking damages for false arrest and malicious prosecution. He also said Geico may sue the department to recoup the cost of the claim it has already paid to Richardson.


(Excerpt) Read more at nj.com ...


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Good for him, hope he wins plus damages


Title: Re: Police State - Official Thread
Post by: Soul Crusher on December 30, 2011, 08:54:01 AM
Wake deputy kills dog while searching for runaway teen (another 'isolated incident')
WRAL (Raleigh-Durham) ^ | December 29, 2011 | Beau Minnick




A Wake County sheriff’s deputy shot and killed a couple’s 3-year-old dog Wednesday night while searching for a runaway teenager.

John and Linda Super say two deputies came to their home on King Circle, looking for a 15-year-old neighbor who had run away and had often spent time with them.

One of the couple’s dogs, Elvis, forced his way out the front door and ran outside as the couple talked to the deputies, they said. One of the deputies shot Elvis twice, including once in the back of the head, killing him, according to the Supers.

“All we’ve got is a dead dog and a lot of questions that need answers,” Linda Super said. “(Elvis) came running out, never bothered a soul, never opened his mouth, never woofed or nothing when he came out the door.”

Wake County Sheriff Donnie Harrison said the deputy, Roderick Belfield, said the dog was barking and running towards him. Belfield will not be punished for shooting the dog.

--SNIP--

Harrison said he is investigating whether Belfield or the other deputy, Kenneth Edward Kay, used profanity while subduing John Super, who was upset after the shooting. John Super says the deputies were rough with him.

One of the runaway teen's guardians said Elvis was "vicious" and had lunged for the deputy, something the Supers dispute

“(Elvis) was my fourth child,” Linda Super said. “He was like the center of our lives.”


(Excerpt) Read m