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Title: Tiger Mother
Post by: BayGBM on January 23, 2011, 10:51:16 AM
Are you a Tiger mother?  Do you know one?

Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior
By AMY CHUA

A lot of people wonder how Chinese parents raise such stereotypically successful kids. They wonder what these parents do to produce so many math whizzes and music prodigies, what it's like inside the family, and whether they could do it too. Well, I can tell them, because I've done it. Here are some things my daughters, Sophia and Louisa, were never allowed to do:
• attend a sleepover

• have a playdate

• be in a school play

• complain about not being in a school play

• watch TV or play computer games

• choose their own extracurricular activities

• get any grade less than an A

• not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama

• play any instrument other than the piano or violin

• not play the piano or violin.

I'm using the term "Chinese mother" loosely. I know some Korean, Indian, Jamaican, Irish and Ghanaian parents who qualify too. Conversely, I know some mothers of Chinese heritage, almost always born in the West, who are not Chinese mothers, by choice or otherwise. I'm also using the term "Western parents" loosely. Western parents come in all varieties.

All the same, even when Western parents think they're being strict, they usually don't come close to being Chinese mothers. For example, my Western friends who consider themselves strict make their children practice their instruments 30 minutes every day. An hour at most. For a Chinese mother, the first hour is the easy part. It's hours two and three that get tough.

Despite our squeamishness about cultural stereotypes, there are tons of studies out there showing marked and quantifiable differences between Chinese and Westerners when it comes to parenting. In one study of 50 Western American mothers and 48 Chinese immigrant mothers, almost 70% of the Western mothers said either that "stressing academic success is not good for children" or that "parents need to foster the idea that learning is fun." By contrast, roughly 0% of the Chinese mothers felt the same way. Instead, the vast majority of the Chinese mothers said that they believe their children can be "the best" students, that "academic achievement reflects successful parenting," and that if children did not excel at school then there was "a problem" and parents "were not doing their job." Other studies indicate that compared to Western parents, Chinese parents spend approximately 10 times as long every day drilling academic activities with their children. By contrast, Western kids are more likely to participate in sports teams.

What Chinese parents understand is that nothing is fun until you're good at it. To get good at anything you have to work, and children on their own never want to work, which is why it is crucial to override their preferences. This often requires fortitude on the part of the parents because the child will resist; things are always hardest at the beginning, which is where Western parents tend to give up. But if done properly, the Chinese strategy produces a virtuous circle. Tenacious practice, practice, practice is crucial for excellence; rote repetition is underrated in America. Once a child starts to excel at something—whether it's math, piano, pitching or ballet—he or she gets praise, admiration and satisfaction. This builds confidence and makes the once not-fun activity fun. This in turn makes it easier for the parent to get the child to work even more.

Chinese parents can get away with things that Western parents can't. Once when I was young—maybe more than once—when I was extremely disrespectful to my mother, my father angrily called me "garbage" in our native Hokkien dialect. It worked really well. I felt terrible and deeply ashamed of what I had done. But it didn't damage my self-esteem or anything like that. I knew exactly how highly he thought of me. I didn't actually think I was worthless or feel like a piece of garbage.

As an adult, I once did the same thing to Sophia, calling her garbage in English when she acted extremely disrespectfully toward me. When I mentioned that I had done this at a dinner party, I was immediately ostracized. One guest named Marcy got so upset she broke down in tears and had to leave early. My friend Susan, the host, tried to rehabilitate me with the remaining guests.

The fact is that Chinese parents can do things that would seem unimaginable—even legally actionable—to Westerners. Chinese mothers can say to their daughters, "Hey fatty—lose some weight." By contrast, Western parents have to tiptoe around the issue, talking in terms of "health" and never ever mentioning the f-word, and their kids still end up in therapy for eating disorders and negative self-image. (I also once heard a Western father toast his adult daughter by calling her "beautiful and incredibly competent." She later told me that made her feel like garbage.)

Chinese parents can order their kids to get straight As. Western parents can only ask their kids to try their best. Chinese parents can say, "You're lazy. All your classmates are getting ahead of you." By contrast, Western parents have to struggle with their own conflicted feelings about achievement, and try to persuade themselves that they're not disappointed about how their kids turned out... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html

http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Hymn-Tiger-Mother-Chua/dp/1594202842/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1295808287&sr=8-1


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: Mega Man on January 24, 2011, 03:50:36 PM
It's 100% true.....

Its all how you teach you're kid to think and focus. I come from a family of very smart kids (4 to be exact). And as soon as we could under stand basic communication....My mom started to read books to us, take us to the library, and basic math, which are the basics for learing. Also mom would give us great praise and compliments for learning new lessons, and told us how much smarter we were than other kids. Learning to read and count early is key...cause kids can learn to relate words and numbers to life at early stages, making them more mature and smarter for their age.

Also my parents were selective with who I was friends with and spent time with. My mom would let me play with older kids or family friends, that were known to be smart and know to be socialy advanced. Also TV was not allowed during the school week, cause it was distracting while us kids tried to read or do homework.


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: BayGBM on January 24, 2011, 07:04:09 PM
"... The tiger mother's cubs are being raised to rule the world, the book clearly implies, while the offspring of "weak-willed," "indulgent" Westerners are growing up ill equipped to compete in a fierce global marketplace..."


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: Migs on January 24, 2011, 07:18:25 PM
i'll sum up the post and book.  ready?

friggin discipline

thats all  :D


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: BayGBM on January 24, 2011, 08:07:15 PM
The author appeared on the Today show last month.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/41005969/ns/today-books/40927341


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: ToxicAvenger on January 24, 2011, 08:12:26 PM
my parents and most upper class indian/ pakistani parents
Quote
• attend a sleepover
would never happen.....might get in trouble for mention of such idiocy

Quote
• have a playdate
you get 1 hr of sports a week in school....more than enough

Quote
• be in a school play
 ok by parents if you are getting straight As...god forbid if you r in a play and pull a B

Quote
• complain about not being in a school play
not allowed to complain...PERIOD!

Quote
• watch TV or play computer games
1/2 hr of TV before bedtime thru high school...bed time ws 8:30pm. weekends we just chose not to watch TV...no time...homework and we took the opportunity for freedom to play outdoors

Quote
• choose their own extracurricular activities
cricket/horseback riding....ws accepted grudgingly

Quote
• get any grade less than an A
i got in major trouble in 9th grade for pulling a B in math. I got a 93% or so....with a curve..that ws a B. Most kids in class got 100%s
history...geography...re ligious studies....i could fail to my hearts content and nothing ws ever said about it.
everything else had to be Aced
Quote
• not be the No. 1 student in every subject except gym and drama
my parents would never allow me to go to a school that actually had a drama class. Such bullshit is for slackers and B students

Quote
• play any instrument other than the piano or violin
slackers play instruments. One could get caned for wanting to be an entertainer. btw...entertainer = clown



you can be 3 things in my family. A doctor...an Engineer....or a faliure



Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: benchmstr on January 24, 2011, 08:15:46 PM
so the idea is to make the kid have no real social skills...

a play date does not create social skills....self initiated reaction with others does that...not mommy introducing you..

cant merge, or make a deal without certain social skills....which Asians severely lack..

bench


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: ToxicAvenger on January 24, 2011, 08:23:53 PM
so the idea is to make the kid have no real social skills...

a play date does not create social skills....self initiated reaction with others does that...not mommy introducing you..

cant merge, or make a deal without certain social skills....which Asians severely lack..

bench


i had zilch social skills when i started college...with women(and otherwise)...i ws in an all boys high school....

didn't matter though.... when ya start constantly crushing the competition in college...at age 15...a superority complex works just as well, if not better than social skills  :)


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: Butterbean on January 25, 2011, 08:01:45 AM
Bay, what does that lady say about Physical Punishment/Discipline? 


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: SWTYGRL on January 25, 2011, 09:02:18 AM
Ms. Chua was recently featured in the Wall Street Journal, the article is titled "Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior"  In this article she discusses her parenting techniques which include calling her 7 year old daughter "Garbage, lazy, cowardly, self-indulgent and pathetic" because the daughter cannot master a piece of music.

Ms. Chua's youngest daughter eventually has a "breakdown" and experiences some rebellion.

The respose in editorials has been tremendous, the highest number of in the history of the WSJ.

Many include the fact that the Chinese community has the highest number of suicides in young adults. 

It is fascinating...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html)


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: Butterbean on January 25, 2011, 11:59:17 AM
Interesting dynamic between her and her husband:



When she still kept playing it wrong, I told her she was purposely working herself into a frenzy because she was secretly afraid she couldn't do it. I told her to stop being lazy, cowardly, self-indulgent and pathetic.

Jed took me aside. He told me to stop insulting Lulu—which I wasn't even doing, I was just motivating her—and that he didn't think threatening Lulu was helpful. Also, he said, maybe Lulu really just couldn't do the technique—perhaps she didn't have the coordination yet—had I considered that possibility?

"You just don't believe in her," I accused.

"That's ridiculous," Jed said scornfully. "Of course I do."

"Sophia could play the piece when she was this age."

"But Lulu and Sophia are different people," Jed pointed out.

"Oh no, not this," I said, rolling my eyes. "Everyone is special in their special own way," I mimicked sarcastically. "Even losers are special in their own special way. Well don't worry, you don't have to lift a finger. I'm willing to put in as long as it takes, and I'm happy to be the one hated. And you can be the one they adore because you make them pancakes and take them to Yankees games."


 :-\


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: loco on January 25, 2011, 12:15:38 PM
"... The tiger mother's cubs are being raised to rule the world, the book clearly implies, while the offspring of "weak-willed," "indulgent" Westerners are growing up ill equipped to compete in a fierce global marketplace..."

More like tiger mother's cubs are being raised to be on therapy and medication.    ;D


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: Mega Man on January 25, 2011, 01:42:55 PM
Enough with the Tiger Mothers......I more interested at being a cub of some hot Cougars ;D


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: BayGBM on January 25, 2011, 02:17:03 PM
More like tiger mother's cubs are being raised to be on therapy and medication.    ;D

...in December the latest test results from the Program for International Student Assessment (PISA) was released.  American students were mired in the middle: 17th in reading, 23rd in science and 31st in math--17th over all.  For the first time since PISA began its rankings in 2000, students in Shanghai took the test--and they blew everyone else away, achieving a decisive first place in all three categories.  When asked to account for the results, education experts produced a starkly simple explanation: Chinese students work harder, with more focus, for longer hours than American students do.

...last year, China surpassed Japan as the world's second largest economy.  The U.S. is still number 1--but for how long?  We're rapidly reaching the limit on how much money the federal government can borrow--and our single biggest creditor is China.  How long, for that matter, can the beleaguered U.S. education system keep pace with a rapidly evolving and increasingly demanding global marketplace?  Chinese students already have a longer school year than American pupils--and U.S. kids spend more time sitting in front of the TV than in the classroom...  
 
:'(


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: BayGBM on January 25, 2011, 02:30:06 PM
Bay, what does that lady say about Physical Punishment/Discipline? 

She doesn't talk about physical discipline in any of the articles of I have read about or authored by her.


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: SWTYGRL on January 25, 2011, 02:41:57 PM
"While I applaud Asian parents for expecting the most of their children, I believe that the problem with this type of strict Asian parenting is that the fear of failure and the constant need to excel lead to children who are risk-averse. They stick to tried-and-true professions and never fully expand their abilities in different directions. This has resulted in an Asian society that follows the lead of American ingenuity. Sure, there may be more failures in America but those who achieve, achieve in such a spectacular manner that it creates opportunities for others."
Cam Nguyen

Chinese often extol the benefits of balance (yin and yang is a ancient Chinese philosophy) I believe balance in parenting would probably be best.  I believe we can learn from the Chinese (high expectations) and they can learn from the West (playdates and participation in sports).



Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: Migs on January 25, 2011, 04:22:02 PM
Bay, what does that lady say about Physical Punishment/Discipline? 

if it's anything like what i have seen, they are brutal lol.  Someone was always getting hit it a flip flop or some utensil


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: BayGBM on January 25, 2011, 04:34:13 PM
A few months ago, I was at an education forum, and I pointed out that the U.S. had fallen to 23rd in math and science.  I suggested that K-12 schools should think about extending the school year or modifying the calendar so that kids go to school year round with perhaps a month long break over the xmas/new year’s holiday, one in the spring and one in the summer.  The teachers went ballistic!  They said summer break was sacrosanct* and that they (and their unions) would oppose any effort to extend the school year or modify the academic calendar.

Seriously, the fact that the U.S. was falling way behind international competitors did not seem to faze them in the slightest.  :'(


* Remember, the current academic calendar was established in the 19th century and based on the fact that back in the day families needed their kids to be home during the summer to help with harvesting crops at a time when the U.S. still had an agrarian economy.  Basically, lots of people were farmers and kids worked on family farms in the summer.  Obviously (to me at least), the original need for a summer break is long gone.


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: 240 is Back on January 25, 2011, 04:51:10 PM
A few months ago, I was at an education forum, and I pointed out that the U.S. had fallen to 23rd in math and science.  I suggested that K-12 schools should think about extending the school year or modifying the calendar so that kids go to school year round with perhaps a month long break over the xmas/new year’s holiday, one in the spring and one in the summer.  The teachers went ballistic!  They said summer break was sacrosanct and that they (and their unions) would oppose any effort to extend the school year or modify the academic calendar.

Seriously, the fact that the U.S. was falling way behind international competitors did not seem to faze them in the slightest.  :'(

I was a teacher for 6-7 years, and I loved the idea of 45 days on, 15 days off.  9 weeks on (1 quarter), 3 weeks off.

we spent the first quarter of every year reviewing what they forgot over the 11 week break. 

the system was designed around migrant farming.  things aren't like that anymore.


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: Princess L on January 25, 2011, 07:01:34 PM
When she still kept playing it wrong, I told her she was purposely working herself into a frenzy because she was secretly afraid she couldn't do it. I told her to stop being lazy, cowardly, self-indulgent and pathetic.

Jed took me aside. He told me to stop insulting Lulu—which I wasn't even doing, I was just motivating her—and that he didn't think threatening Lulu was helpful. Also, he said, maybe Lulu really just couldn't do the technique—perhaps she didn't have the coordination yet—had I considered that possibility?

"You just don't believe in her," I accused.

"That's ridiculous," Jed said scornfully. "Of course I do."

"Sophia could play the piece when she was this age."

"But Lulu and Sophia are different people," Jed pointed out.

"Oh no, not this," I said, rolling my eyes. "Everyone is special in their special own way," I mimicked sarcastically. "Even losers are special in their own special way. Well don't worry, you don't have to lift a finger. I'm willing to put in as long as it takes, and I'm happy to be the one hated. And you can be the one they adore because you make them pancakes and take them to Yankees games."

More like tiger mother's cubs are being raised to be on therapy and medication.    ;D

X2


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: BayGBM on January 25, 2011, 07:34:33 PM

X2


Your agreement here is puzzling.  It is not as if there aren’t lots of young Americans on therapy and medication.  There are (arguably for the wrong reasons) and we are seriously falling behind competitor nations.  In fact America seems to have invented therapy and rehab and it wasn’t because their kids were being driven to excel.  It seems to have happened for precisely the opposite reason: kids have been given way too much freedom and are growing up without adequate parenting or supervision.  In the face of the facts (American young people are falling behind) your agreement appears glib and an insufficient retort.

Is a disciplined work ethic no longer valued in America?  Do parents really believe playing Wii or sports is more important than having their child perform reading and math drills at home or learning to read music and play a musical instrument?

I wonder if your kids will be able to compete with Mrs. Chua’s kids...  :-[


...When Rubenfeld protested Chua’s harangues over “The Little White Donkey,” for instance, Chua informed him that his older daughter Sophia could play the piece when she was Lulu’s age.  Sophia and Lulu are different people, Rubenfeld remonstrated reasonably.  “Oh, no, not this,” Shua shot back, adopting a mocking tone: “Everyone is special in their own special way.  Even losers are special in their own special way.”

With a stroke of her razor-sharp pen, Chua has set a whole nation of parents to wondering: Are we the losers she’s talking about?


 :-\


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: Princess L on January 25, 2011, 09:00:11 PM

Your agreement here is puzzling.  It is not as if there aren’t lots of young Americans on therapy and medication.  There are (arguably for the wrong reasons) and we are seriously falling behind competitor nations.  In fact America seems to have invented therapy and rehab and it wasn’t because their kids were being driven to excel.  It seems to have happened for precisely the opposite reason: kids have been given way too much freedom and are growing up without adequate parenting or supervision.  In the face of the facts (American young people are falling behind) your agreement appears glib and an insufficient retort.

Is a disciplined work ethic no longer valued in America?  Do parents really believe playing Wii or sports is more important than having their child perform reading and math drills at home or learning to read music and play a musical instrument?

I wonder if your kids will be able to compete with Mrs. Chua’s kids...  :-[


I don’t disagree that we are falling behind academically.  Obviously that is a fact.  Of course a disciplined work ethic is of value.  This however, seems to be extreme parenting.  Even though I am not a parent, I believe good parenting maintains a balance between demanding too much and accepting too little.

What does it mean to be successful?  Of course there are multiple definitions and interpretations of success.  People can be very successful in terms of outward accomplishments while still feeling empty inside, wondering if they are ever good enough. Part of feeling happy is feeling secure/safe and loved.  Kids need to know that they are loved even when they fail, mess up, and are less-than perfect. It creates positive self esteem. This “tiger” style of parenting relies on ridicule, humiliation, shame, and disgrace as motivation.  Some kids will crumble under a “tiger” style and throughout their lives never feel "good enough" about themselves, no matter how successful they become. Other children will rise to the challenge with an "I'll show you" attitude that makes them feel accomplished. Both are likely to possess some undesirable traits as a result of being driven to perfection.

An adjusted academic calendar has been being proposed for years and the damn unions keep shooting it down.  ::) >:(  That alone would be a huge step in bridging the widening gap...




Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: marcie999 on January 25, 2011, 10:19:28 PM


I bet she has an academic understanding of the word mother.


My Dads medical case manager is a high flier Tiger Mother would be proud of. No empathy or people skills at all.

I would ask folks like that be removed from the medical system. Design an empathy test for fields that require contact with vulnerable people and don't let them in.

 >:(


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: loco on January 26, 2011, 05:57:56 AM
Ms. Chua was recently featured in the Wall Street Journal, the article is titled "Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior"  In this article she discusses her parenting techniques which include calling her 7 year old daughter "Garbage, lazy, cowardly, self-indulgent and pathetic" because the daughter cannot master a piece of music.

Ms. Chua's youngest daughter eventually has a "breakdown" and experiences some rebellion.

The respose in editorials has been tremendous, the highest number of in the history of the WSJ.

Many include the fact that the Chinese community has the highest number of suicides in young adults.  

It is fascinating...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704111504576059713528698754.html)


Interesting dynamic between her and her husband:



When she still kept playing it wrong, I told her she was purposely working herself into a frenzy because she was secretly afraid she couldn't do it. I told her to stop being lazy, cowardly, self-indulgent and pathetic.

Jed took me aside. He told me to stop insulting Lulu—which I wasn't even doing, I was just motivating her—and that he didn't think threatening Lulu was helpful. Also, he said, maybe Lulu really just couldn't do the technique—perhaps she didn't have the coordination yet—had I considered that possibility?

"You just don't believe in her," I accused.

"That's ridiculous," Jed said scornfully. "Of course I do."

"Sophia could play the piece when she was this age."

"But Lulu and Sophia are different people," Jed pointed out.

"Oh no, not this," I said, rolling my eyes. "Everyone is special in their special own way," I mimicked sarcastically. "Even losers are special in their own special way. Well don't worry, you don't have to lift a finger. I'm willing to put in as long as it takes, and I'm happy to be the one hated. And you can be the one they adore because you make them pancakes and take them to Yankees games."


 :-\


What’s the best advice Warren Buffett has ever received?  You might be surprised: It has nothing to do with money.

In an exclusive interview with Yahoo! News and The Huffington Post, he credited his father for teaching him how to live, and explained that all parents can make a "better human being" by offering their children unconditional love:

"The power of unconditional love. I mean, there is no power on earth like unconditional love. And I think that if you offered that to your child, I mean you’re 90 percent of the way home. There may be days when you don’t feel like it, it’s not uncritical love, that’s a different animal, but to know you can always come back, that is huge in life. That takes you a long, long way. And I would say that every parent out there that can extend that to their child at an early age, it’s going to make for  a better human being."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_upshot/20100708/bs_yblog_upshot/buffett-recounts-the-best-advice-hes-ever-received


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: BayGBM on January 26, 2011, 07:06:32 AM
U.S. students get an F in science
by Jill Tucker

Just 1 out of every 100 U.S. schoolchildren excels at science, while less than a third of their peers reach grade-level proficiency in the subject, according to the Nation's Report Card released Tuesday.

The scores are not nearly good enough given the demand for innovators, inventors and problem solvers required to keep the country on the cutting edge of industry and enterprise, education officials said.

"In a world that is increasingly dependent on science, we are failing to educate our kids in science," said Tom Luce, CEO of the National Math and Science Initiative, a nonprofit that awards grants to improve education. "That's putting them at risk and putting our country at risk," he said in a statement.

California students fared worse than the national average on the standardized tests, with fourth-graders, for example, lagging behind 43 jurisdictions - 42 states and the Department of Defense schools - on the science test and in a dead heat for last with three others: Hawaii, Arizona and Mississippi.

Four states did not participate in the voluntary testing, administered in 2009 by the National Assessment Governing Board, an independent and bipartisan group that has members appointed by the U.S. secretary of education.

California education officials called the scores troubling.

Challenging the test
San Francisco science teacher George Cachianes, however, had a different take, calling the test itself troubling, not the state of science education - especially at Lincoln High School.

The mostly multiple-choice test "fails to test creativity, thinking and the ability to solve problems," he said. "At Genentech, they cherish those qualities."

Cachianes would know. He was a researcher for 15 years at the biotech company and Columbia and Stanford universities before becoming a public school teacher.

His high school course syllabus includes lessons on the "function of restriction endonucleases (vs. exonucleases)" and "prokaryotic vs. eukaryotic gene expression." Class lab work rivals that in university graduate school programs, he said.

Cachianes doesn't focus on memorization of scientific principles or formulas, but instead on the ability to think - something that is not easily tested by filling in the bubbles on a standardized test, he said. Students or scientists can always look up facts or formulas, he added.

"If we're teaching to the test, you're going to reward people who memorize well and you're going to turn off people who like to think and apply knowledge," he said.

How they scored
The National Assessment of Educational Progress, the Nation's Report Card, was given to about 150,000 each of fourth- and eighth-grade students nationwide.

About 11,000 12th-graders also took the test, with national results indicating that 2 percent tested at an advanced level while 21 percent were considered proficient. State-by-state results were not available for the high school students.

In 2009, 34 percent of fourth-graders, 30 percent of eighth-graders, and 21 percent of 12th-graders were considered proficient in science.

A greater number demonstrated a partial mastery of the subject, with 72 percent of fourth-graders, 63 percent of eighth-graders, and 60 percent of 12th-graders performing at or above the basic level.

Black, Latino and low-income students lagged behind their white, Asian and wealthier peers, yet another indication of a pervasive achievement gap, officials said.

The results released Tuesday could not be compared with those from previous years because of a new testing format.

The test, which is administered every four years, focused on physical, life, Earth and space sciences, as in the past. But the new exam, which included some written-response questions, emphasized a student's ability to use his or her scientific knowledge rather than regurgitate it, a little more in line with what teachers such as Cachianes would like to see on such exams.

California lags
California's lagging test scores indicate a lower level of proficiency in the content appearing on the national exams, but they also reflect a significant difference in the population of students tested compared with those in other states.

In California, 22 percent of fourth-graders and 20 percent of eighth-graders tested at proficient or above, while 58 percent of fourth-graders and 48 of eighth-graders tested at a basic level or above.

Fifty-one percent of the California students who took the national assessment test were Latino, compared with 22 percent nationally. The state also has a greater percentage of poor students than any other state.

Latino students nationally score lower than all other ethnicities, except for black students. Poor students also lag behind their peers.

It's not an excuse but an explanation, state officials said.

"This test is a less-than-precise measure of student performance in California, but it is one more signal about where we stand and where we're headed," said state Superintendent Tom Torlakson. "Like other educators and business leaders across California, I have become increasingly concerned about this issue - and more determined than ever to see more science taught in our schools."


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: ToxicAvenger on January 26, 2011, 01:22:11 PM
bottom line...

American educated kids fail miserably when compared to foreign kids(india...pakistan....japa n..i dont count china...go to pakistan/india and see how many upperish class chinese end up in schools there)....its part lax parenting and part lax education system.....and part the stupid overly liberal mindset where (and i read this someplace) American high school teachers wont mark mistakes on exams in red for fear of hurting the students feelings!!!  WHAT????

i can speak of at least university of maryland...but i think its true for most mid and top level schools...

go to the math/engineering/physics departments(THE DEFINING depts. in any university)...and you'll see a bunch of indians...koreans...paki stanis...and surprisingly russians...not many chinese though (they might be there..scraping by...but i never saw any in my honors classes).

People can make all the excuses they want....but eventually the most disciplined and smart over time end up governing.....and it doesn't look good for the races/people i DIDN'T mention..of their OWN fault


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: loco on January 26, 2011, 01:51:21 PM
Venezuelans, and many other Latin Americans are highly educated, though they are also highly unemployed.  Until not long ago, Venezuela had a surplus of medical doctors, lawyers and teachers, many of them unemployed because there aren't enough jobs for them.

So why do these Venezuelans insist on higher education knowing that they are the future unemployed?  Part of it is because college education in Venezuela is free, if you are smart enough and hard working enough.  Part of it is because it is a third world country and they know they can't support a stay home mom and kids on a bus driver's salary.  And a big part of it is because parents place high value on higher education and not only are they themselves educated, but they also encourage and urge their kids to go to college.

I think the problem in the US has been that for many years, you could work at a GM plant with nothing but a GED and still make a decent living, with all kinds of benefits, health care, pension plan, etc.  Now that those years are gone in the US for ever, maybe things will change and more value will be placed on education.


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: Option D on January 26, 2011, 05:24:04 PM
Whatever..heres a list off the some of U.S. inventions.. tell me if we trail

Facebook
Myspace
Internet
Windows and Mac
Football
Basketball
Freedom
MC Donalds
Starbucks
Rail Roads
Airplanes


America.. Fuck yeah


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: Butterbean on January 27, 2011, 07:43:54 AM

 This “tiger” style of parenting relies on ridicule, humiliation, shame, and disgrace as motivation.  



Are you saying Ms. Chua posts here?




Whatever..heres a list off the dome of U.S. inventions.. tell me if we trail

Facebook
Myspace
Internet
Windows and Mac
Football
Basketball
Freedom
MC Donalds
Starbucks
Rail Roads
Airplanes


America.. Fuck yeah



Bed, Bath and Beyond!
Books!



:D ;D


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: ToxicAvenger on January 27, 2011, 07:47:17 AM
Whatever..heres a list off the dome of U.S. inventions.. tell me if we trail
Internet

i would just like to go on record saying that AL-Gore did not invent the internet....actually

The Internet was originally developed by DARPA ( the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency )as a means to share information on defense research between involved universities and defense research facilities.

thankyou....

o..to give credit where its due..AL-gore DID invent global warming :)


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: w8m8 on January 27, 2011, 07:54:51 AM
Are you saying Ms. Chua posts here?

:D ;D


 ;D

I may want a name change


i would just like to go on record saying that AL-Gore did not invent the internet....actually

The Internet was originally developed by DARPA ( the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency )as a means to share information on defense research between involved universities and defense research facilities.

thankyou....

o..to give credit where its due..AL-gore DID invent global warming :)


 ;D


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: Butterbean on January 27, 2011, 07:59:42 AM
i would just like to go on record saying that AL-Gore did not invent the internet....actually

The Internet was originally developed by DARPA ( the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency )as a means to share information on defense research between involved universities and defense research facilities.

thankyou....

o..to give credit where its due..AL-gore DID invent global warming :)

lol


;D

I may want a name change



 ;D


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: benchmstr on January 28, 2011, 02:12:29 PM
i had zilch social skills when i started college...with women(and otherwise)...i ws in an all boys high school....

didn't matter though.... when ya start constantly crushing the competition in college...at age 15...a superority complex works just as well, if not better than social skills  :)
people with this complex are always the first to crack under pressure...

bench


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: ToxicAvenger on January 30, 2011, 04:31:04 PM
people with this complex are always the first to crack under pressure...

bench

i misspoke...its not a complex...

i actually AM superior  ;D


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: benchmstr on January 30, 2011, 04:49:55 PM
i misspoke...its not a complex...

i actually AM superior  ;D
in what aspect?...a lot of people are superior...but in the wrong field to showcase such..

bench


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: ToxicAvenger on January 30, 2011, 05:05:08 PM
in what aspect?...a lot of people are superior...but in the wrong field to showcase such..

bench

sigh...ok so we r doing this serious...fiine...

my field that i'm in...i got in it 7ish years ago...and within 1 1/2 years of being in it i ws teaching corporate clients ...IT professionals some of whom had been in the field for 20 years...
within 2 1/2 years of teaching...the FBI sent me 1 class and then sent me 4 more classes 1 after the other...all of those guys got deployed....apparently the US govt thought me good enough to teach ...yanno military communication in combat zones someplace depended on how well i taught these guys/gals

its been 7ish years and i'm gonna take and pass a test that most people pass in their late 40s..with 20 plus years of experience...i'm 34....

superior enough.?...i just happened to fall into this field...i think i woulda kicked ass at anything...barring my interest in it  :)

bench...i dont know what ya do...but if you wanna be the best at what you do...better than 99% of the crowd..you  have be cock sure of yourself..and back it up....it comes with being good...

...we can save humble for those who need it....the mediocre folks  ;)


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: benchmstr on January 30, 2011, 05:42:25 PM
sigh...ok so we r doing this serious...fiine...

my field that i'm in...i got in it 7ish years ago...and within 1 1/2 years of being in it i ws teaching corporate clients ...IT professionals some of whom had been in the field for 20 years...
within 2 1/2 years of teaching...the FBI sent me 1 class and then sent me 4 more classes 1 after the other...all of those guys got deployed....apparently the US govt thought me good enough to teach ...yanno military communication in combat zones someplace depended on how well i taught these guys/gals

its been 7ish years and i'm gonna take and pass a test that most people pass in their late 40s..with 20 plus years of experience...i'm 34....

superior enough.?...i just happened to fall into this field...i think i woulda kicked ass at anything...barring my interest in it  :)

bench...i dont know what ya do...but if you wanna be the best at what you do...better than 99% of the crowd..you  have be cock sure of yourself..and back it up....it comes with being good...

...we can save humble for those who need it....the mediocre folks  ;)
i already am better than most in my field...i established myself as the "go to guy" a long time ago...

bench


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: benchmstr on January 30, 2011, 05:44:04 PM
sigh...ok so we r doing this serious...fiine...

my field that i'm in...i got in it 7ish years ago...and within 1 1/2 years of being in it i ws teaching corporate clients ...IT professionals some of whom had been in the field for 20 years...
within 2 1/2 years of teaching...the FBI sent me 1 class and then sent me 4 more classes 1 after the other...all of those guys got deployed....apparently the US govt thought me good enough to teach ...yanno military communication in combat zones someplace depended on how well i taught these guys/gals

its been 7ish years and i'm gonna take and pass a test that most people pass in their late 40s..with 20 plus years of experience...i'm 34....

superior enough.?...i just happened to fall into this field...i think i woulda kicked ass at anything...barring my interest in it  :)

bench...i dont know what ya do...but if you wanna be the best at what you do...better than 99% of the crowd..you  have be cock sure of yourself..and back it up....it comes with being good...

...we can save humble for those who need it....the mediocre folks  ;)
i think you could possibly work with my cousin..

bench


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: ToxicAvenger on January 30, 2011, 05:52:26 PM
i think you could possibly work with my cousin..

bench
what does he do mang?


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: ToxicAvenger on January 30, 2011, 07:13:15 PM
i already am better than most in my field...i established myself as the "go to guy" a long time ago...

bench

then you understand where i'm coming from....
 :)


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: benchmstr on January 30, 2011, 07:18:26 PM
what does he do mang?
what you are trying to do...if you have done federal...he likely reviewed, and approved you're info...between him, and i we have enough security clearance to bake a big ass cake...

bench


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: ToxicAvenger on January 30, 2011, 07:23:15 PM
what you are trying to do...if you have done federal...he likely reviewed, and approved you're info...between him, and i we have enough security clearance to bake a big ass cake...

bench

i've once done another agency ...that i'm not allowed to put on my resume also  >:( >:( >:(

either way...then your couzin will probably be looking at me again after i pass my CCIE....i plan on going to SAIC :)  and hopefully they will clear me(TS)....then i can make some real money  :D



Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: benchmstr on January 30, 2011, 08:05:40 PM
i've once done another agency ...that i'm not allowed to put on my resume also  >:( >:( >:(

either way...then your couzin will probably be looking at me again after i pass my CCIE....i plan on going to SAIC :)  and hopefully they will clear me(TS)....then i can make some real money  :D


i got a lot of shit that i am not allowed to put on a damn resume...pisses me off to no end, because how hard i had to work for that shit..

bench


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: ToxicAvenger on January 31, 2011, 02:24:37 AM
i got a lot of shit that i am not allowed to put on a damn resume...pisses me off to no end, because how hard i had to work for that shit..

bench

all i did ws teach a class...so it wasn't all that much hard work in my case...but it sure would look cool on my resume  :(


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: benchmstr on January 31, 2011, 06:20:41 PM
all i did ws teach a class...so it wasn't all that much hard work in my case...but it sure would look cool on my resume  :(
i mainly teach classes now...which is awesome...i still miss the old days though...

bench


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: ToxicAvenger on February 01, 2011, 01:27:30 AM
i mainly teach classes now...which is awesome...i still miss the old days though...

bench

i'm done teaching....  :(

i dont have the patience anymore....


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: BayGBM on March 10, 2012, 11:26:24 AM
India is no stranger to the tiger mom trend
As millions of Indians migrate from villages to cities, parents increasingly view the educational success of their children as paramount.
By Mark Magnier, Los Angeles Times

Stay-at-home mom Swati Rastogi watched her daughter Krisha play with plastic monkeys as son Dhruva lined up model cars in their two-bedroom apartment surrounded by Hindi and English alphabet posters.

Dhruva, 3, asked whether Pakistan is part of India. He was informed that it's not. "I don't know where that comes from," she said, watching attentively.

That's a rarity for Rastogi, who leaves little to chance when it comes to her children's education. Although China and its diaspora receive lots of attention for hyper-parenting since last year's publication of the book "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother," Indians aren't exactly wallflowers in the child-rearing department.

At a January literary festival in Jaipur, "Tiger Mother" author Amy Chua told adoring audiences that Indian tiger moms may outnumber China's.

"The crowd went gaga over almost anything she said," said Shobha De, a writer, socialite and mother of six. "I don't think she's seen such a positive reaction elsewhere in the world."

Indian tiger parents feature in Indian TV series, reality shows, books and magazines in a society willing to do almost anything for its children's future, even sometimes before they're born. "Looking for sperm donors," read a recent Chennai advertisement. "Must have graduated from a top technical institute."

As millions of Indians migrate from villages to cities, expanding India's middle class, parents increasingly view education as their family's best ticket to higher social status and material wealth.

In one survey, parents said they spent half their take-home pay on education. The sacrifices, monetary and otherwise, made so children can learn English and won't have to work on a farm, lead to a frequent mantra, experts say: With all I've done for you, why aren't you getting perfect grades?

"It's become very crass," said Shayama Chona, former principal at prestigious Delhi Public School.

The drive to succeed is filling the world's top hospitals, universities, multinational companies and start-ups with people of Indian descent. Given the growing competition from Chinese and Indian youngsters, American students must raise their game, President Obama warned in May.

"In Indian culture, parents say: 'You're going to do engineering, not music, and you're going to be first. No excuses,'" said Indian-born University of Houston Chancellor Renu Khator.

Rastogi, who rates her intensity as average for an Indian parent, quit her software industry job to raise her children, enrolling both in pre-nursery school at age 2, supplemented by home instruction.

When her daughter turned 3, Rastogi and travel executive husband Aakash applied to 15 nursery schools, scouring their circle of connections to find one who was a board member at Delhi Public School, then charming his secretary for a recommendation letter. Covering their bases, they also prayed to deceased guru Sai Baba.

"It was divine intervention" when Krisha got in, Rastogi said.

Rastogi then focused on Dhruva, showing up every other day at Krisha's school so teachers and administrators wouldn't forget her and making cut-out tree props for school assemblies. Dhruva was also accepted.

"If you want relaxing weekends, enroll elsewhere," the school principal told parents at orientation. "If you're ready to work weekends helping your kids study, you're in the right place."

Despite being taught the first-grade syllabus in advance, Krisha is struggling in Hindi and English penmanship, so she and her mother practice at home.

"I give her a deadline, not a very tight one, just 10 minutes," Rastogi said. "She's more interested in distractions than the blackboard."

Recently, Rastogi backed off teaching Krisha herself — sending her instead to thrice-weekly tutoring — after realizing she was losing her temper, occasionally slapping her daughter, when progress lagged. Krisha's also doing twice-weekly art and dance classes for relaxation.

A government survey released in early March found that 99% of Indian children had been either slapped on the face or hit with a cane at school, and 81% had been told they were incapable of learning.

"Hitting, slapping and forcing kids, which is quite common in the Indian context, are traits of tiger parenting," said Mumbai's DNA newspaper. "Such parenting behavior would have child rights groups up in arms in the West."

Some mothers consciously reject the parental arms race. Novelist Namita Devidayal, a self-avowed "slummy mom," teaches her children yoga. "India used to be more holistic," she said. "We're trying to be like China, but we're not even getting there. Hopefully this will balance out."

The pressure carries costs: In 2010, there were 2,479 suicides in India committed by students who had failed school tests, compared with 1,571 in 2001. Chennai's Sneha hotline, one of India's first such counseling programs in a nation where mental health treatment still carries a stigma, fields up to 450 calls daily from anxious students.

In search of offspring perfection, some parents wield guilt, anger, feng shui and time-management strategies, pushing teenagers to study as much as 10 hours a day outside classes, after canceling cable TV subscriptions and banning parties.

"My mum went insane," said Kavita Mukherji, a recent graduate who now works in the publishing industry. "She locked me in, delivering food to my room, so I wouldn't leave the house." At a temple one day, her mother made her walk around an auspicious idol for luck. "If I do 100 rounds, will I score 100% in every subject?" Mukherji asked her mother. "She got offended and never took me to a temple again."

That said, most Indian tiger moms believe they're less fanatical than their Chinese counterparts, perhaps tempered by a more tolerant culture and core spirituality. "Tiger moms in India are not as fierce," author De said.

Back in her living room, Rastogi tells her children to pick up their toys.

"I'm not a tiger mom," she says. "I'm just doing my role. Working would be selfish. It would just leave more for the grandparents."


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: Overload on March 16, 2012, 07:03:37 AM
The Viets are the same way.

My girlfriend's family is from Vietnam and all of the kids are extremely successful and have very high level education. They are taught that they are nothing without an education and the family atmosphere is surrounded by helping the children. The parents often spend more time helping their children with school and musical activities. They push their kids to be the highest person in the class and NOT to act like American kids. The Indochinese have the highest test scores across the board in certain subjects.

My girlfriend's little nephew makes straight A's, has won the Regional(Houston area) spelling bee 4 times in a row and he plays Beethoven on the piano with his eyes closed, he's 11. His parents would not allow the newspaper to interview him about his state championship spelling bee performance, he finished 3rd in the entire state of Texas for his age. These kids are taught to be humble and that success is part of life that you cannot achieve without hard work and dedication. This kid asks me questions about life that i honestly have a hard time explaining to him. He really is so smart it amazes me every day. At 11 years old he is already talking about becoming a doctor and an author so he can support his parents and buy a house for his little brother. This kid has a better head on his shoulders than most American's in their 20's.

It's all conditioning, the parents force him to do homework every night and when he's done, he has to do homework for the next grade. So by the time he hits the next grade, he already knows what it's about and it's easy for him. It's not that he is incredibly intelligent, but he has no choice and he is conditioned to perform to his parents every word. Part of it makes me proud because kids need leadership and discipline to be successful, but at the same time he has never road a bike or spent time with his friends away from school. They only let him spend a very small amount of time watching TV or playing video games. He has to get all his studies done in order to even eat dinner and they are very strict about his every move, it's almost like he's a little robot.


8)


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: BayGBM on March 19, 2012, 08:15:23 PM
I knew it was bad but 1 in 4?   :'(



When high school is too much: 1 in 4 don't graduate, report finds
By Michael Muskal

This post has been corrected. Please see note at bottom for details.

The nation is making progress in increasing the high school graduation rate, according to a study released Monday, yet 1 in 4 Americans don't complete high school.

The report, released by advocacy groups, was presented at the Grad Nation education summit in Washington, D.C. The event itself was organized by the America’s Promise Alliance, founded by former Secretary of State Colin Powell.

The national graduation rate increased by 3.5 percentage points between 2001 and 2009, the report found. The graduation rate rose from 72% to 75.5% in 2009 -– meaning that roughly one of every four American students dropped out of high school. The groups’ goal is 90% by 2020.

“The good news is that some states have made improvements in their graduation rates, showing it can be done. But the data also indicate that if we are to meet our national goals by 2020, we will have to accelerate our rate of progress, particularly in the states that have shown little progress,” said Robert Balfanz, director of Everyone Graduates Center, Johns Hopkins University, and co-author of the Building a Grad Nation report.

In addition to the center and America’s Promise Alliance, other groups involved in the report were Civic Enterprises and the Alliance for Excellent Education. The report was sponsored by AT&T with additional support from the Pearson Foundation.

High school graduation rates are considered a key indicator of future student success and earning potential. In his State of the Union address, President Obama encouraged states to pass laws to require students to stay in school until they graduate or they turn 18. It is estimated that high school graduates will earn $130,000 more over their lifetimes than dropouts.

The report found that 24 states increased their high school graduation rates. In addition, the number of high schools graduating 60% or fewer students on time -- so-called dropout factories -- fell from 2,007 in 2002 to 1,550 in 2010. The authors estimate that 790,000 fewer students attended a dropout factory in 2010 than in 2002.

The increase in graduation rates was mainly because of improvement in 12 states, with New York showing growth of 13 percentage points and Tennessee showing growth of 17.8 percentage points since 2002, according to the report. Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, Texas, South Carolina, Missouri, Alabama, Massachusetts, Wisconsin and Kentucky were among the top dozen.

Ten states -- Arizona, Arkansas, California, Connecticut, New Jersey, Nebraska, New Mexico, Nevada, Rhode Island and Utah -– saw declines in graduation rates.

Only one state, Wisconsin, has reached the 90% plateau, though Vermont is getting close, the report notes.

If every state had a graduation rate of 90% or better, 580,000 additional students would have graduated in the class of 2011, increasing the gross domestic product by $6.6 billion and generating $1.8 billion in additional revenue as a result of increased economic activity, the report estimates.


Title: Re: Tiger Mother
Post by: Parker on April 22, 2012, 02:57:18 AM
BTW, Chinese tigers are endangered species on the verge of being extinct, and still, they served their penises at the restaurant on the Tiger reserve...

Smart, huh?