Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: Vince B on February 13, 2011, 10:49:02 PM
-
There is some confusion about training with machines. Some people don't believe they are useful and miss out on using good equipment. The angled Smith Machine allows users to duplicate the path used in squats, bench presses and other movements. This angle is about 10 degrees from the vertical. Combine that benefit with the safety factor and you have equipment that can be used when training alone.
The handle on my Smith Machine is 1 1/4 inches in diameter. Machines that use Olympic bars are 1 1/8" across. Many machines have a counterweight which more or less eliminates the weight of the bar and so whatever weight you add is what you are lifting. Machines without counterweights seem heavier because you are lifting the bar plus bearing assemblies. On my machine the assembly plus bar weighs about 60 pounds.
When you do squats you do plenty of stabilizing on the machine. To think otherwise means you haven't used these machines.
-
There is some confusion about training with machines. Some people don't believe they are useful and miss out on using good equipment. The angled Smith Machine allows users to duplicate the path used in squats, bench presses and other movements. This angle is about 10 degrees from the vertical. Combine that benefit with the safety factor and you have equipment that can be used when training alone.
The handle on my Smith Machine is 1 1/4 inches in diameter. Machines that use Olympic bars are 1 1/8" across. Many machines have a counterweight which more or less eliminates the weight of the bar and so whatever weight you add is what you are lifting. Machines without counterweights seem heavier because you are lifting the bar plus bearing assemblies. On my machine the assembly plus bar weighs about 60 pounds.
When you do squats you do plenty of stabilizing on the machine. To think otherwise means you haven't used these machines.
Yes we have angled smiths in my gym and theyre better than the straight, vertical ones. much more comfortable.
-
I like the adjustable footrest attached to the smith.
-
my gym(la fitness,studio city) has 3Xangled smiths.
-
Btw is your gym in an institution?...i did a stay at a place called"voices"
had similar bars on the windows
-
sorry, wrong.
both the squat and the bench press is not an angled movement, but rather an S shape.
no matter what angle you put on there, or even if you build an "S" on a machine, itll fit only 1% of all lifters- if that.
the variation and differences between humans means that unless its mapped via a computer, for each individual, then made- itll fit a tiny portion of trainers.
the rest it wont fit at all and encourage movement through incorrect planes..making it almost as inaccurate as the straight smith machine.
its useful for safety only...period. if you are happy to work through less than optimal range, and put some muscle complexes at risk by doing so, then go for it. you will never lift as heavy as free weights for that reason, so what benefit is it giving?..
its purely safety and the ability to go the extra rep without concern...but you'd probably get more benefit from more weight using free weights or doing an exercise like leg press for instance.
maybe the only exercise that its almost ok for is military presses.
-
I prefer universal gym leg press u can goto failure on
personally
(http://www.purplewaveauction.com/a/2009/20090722midwest/2543.JPG)
-
You can plot the start and finish position and even if the actual movement is an S it won't make much difference and will feel 'right'.
-
I prefer universal gym leg press u can goto failure on
personally
(http://www.purplewaveauction.com/a/2009/20090722midwest/2543.JPG)
that ain't a universal but a sad copy.
-
I prefer universal gym leg press u can goto failure on
personally
(http://www.purplewaveauction.com/a/2009/20090722midwest/2543.JPG)
This piece of equipment was state of the art back in the good old days. The problem with that apparatus is that the weight stack had to move to accommodate the moving arm. Not a good thing to do as far as engineering is concerned. The construction was as strong as it should be for those heavy resistances. Also there are safety concerns for the foot pads as they don't restrain the foot.
-
The real universal machines had movement arms that ran along a roller attached to the top of the stack coupled with 2 rollers that ran up the weight stack shafts.
-
Yes, Universal called it Dynamic Variable Resistance. It was hot stuff until Arthur Jones and Nautilus arrived.
-
I felt the leg press needed more weight and much larger foot plate but the bench press and shoulder press were great machines imo.
-
Universal and Paramount targetted universities, YMCA, high schools, hotels, etc., and had multi-stationed units that fit under an 8 foot ceiling. Those were the first attempts to vary the resistance. It wasn't much but users felt the difference. These companies didn't develop the concepts and soon Nautilus, Cybex and others were replacing them. Nobody in those days would have predicted the success that Nautilus had. Especially considering they used chains and looked intimidating. Goodness me but I hate repairing machines with dirty chains. Arthur underestimated how people would use his machines so used 1/2 inch chains instead of stronger 5/8 inch chains that would have been better. He did use double link chains for some machines such as the Duo Squat and they have been okay. Today manufacturers use cables or belt drives and seldom chains.
-
Bay goes "all out" on this "piece of equipment".
(http://feeds2.yourstorewizards.com/1150/images/250x1000/hot-seat-vibrator-sex-toy-furniture.jpg)
-
Only senile Basile would put an exit sign above a mirror.
-
Garbage. Free weights is the way to go. Smith's are for the lazy.
-
Only senile Basile would put an exit sign above a mirror.
;D Maybe it's an exit into another dimension?
-
;D Maybe it's an exit into another dimension?
haha. Maybe it contains the "secrets to hypertrophy" that he's been pimping for 58 years but has never told anyone?
-
haha. Maybe it contains the "secrets to hypertrophy" that he's been pimping for 58 years but has never told anyone?
LOL....or possibly, that is where the flotsam of getbig resides? :o
-
Yes we have angled smiths in my gym and theyre better than the straight, vertical ones. much more comfortable.
try shrugs on one. put your feet well ahead of you so when you pull up on the bar, you're pulling up with the same angle the bar on the machine is set at.
killer.
-
There is some confusion about training with machines. Some people don't believe they are useful and miss out on using good equipment.
so that to the fuckers that have died benching in them haha
-
try shrugs on one. put your feet well ahead of you so when you pull up on the bar, you're pulling up with the same angle the bar on the machine is set at.
killer.
Cool.
A great exercise for FP would be:
Load the smith with as many 45's as it fits, get under the bar, lay on the bench. Then have 3 spotters unrack it for you and let the bar "sit" on your throat.
killer
lol
-
You can plot the start and finish position and even if the actual movement is an S it won't make much difference and will feel 'right'.
disagree like it was stated both exercises contain an "S" movement in them and while yes you can still do the exercise you cannot simulate the "S" on a smith unless its the kind where the guides move and even then I wouldnt know how effective it is.
smiths have their place but dont try and tell ppl they can take the place of free weights in movement...
-
your mom is a good piece of equipment.
-
disagree like it was stated both exercises contain an "S" movement in them and while yes you can still do the exercise you cannot simulate the "S" on a smith unless its the kind where the guides move and even then I wouldnt know how effective it is.
smiths have their place but dont try and tell ppl they can take the place of free weights in movement...
What a load of absolute bullshit. Do the damn exercise. It feels the same. Free weight devotees really are close-minded knuckleheads. Toss all the free weights into the ocean and make our sport a better thing. Get rid of all that clanging and tossing weights down. This is primitive bodybuilding at its worst.
-
So Vince, do you really think this angled version of the Smith has benefit for say, A competitive Olympic Lifter, or Powerlifter training for a competition, beyond say, simple muscle stimulation?
-
What a load of absolute bullshit. Do the damn exercise. It feels the same. Free weight devotees really are close-minded knuckleheads. Toss all the free weights into the ocean and make our sport a better thing. Get rid of all that clanging and tossing weights down. This is primitive bodybuilding at its worst.
-
What a load of absolute bullshit. Do the damn exercise. It feels the same. Free weight devotees really are close-minded knuckleheads. Toss all the free weights into the ocean and make our sport a better thing. Get rid of all that clanging and tossing weights down. This is primitive bodybuilding at its worst.
LMAO first off I said the smith machine has its place so I dont know why you lumped me into the free weight devotee knuckle head crowd...but whatever makes it easier for you to get by
2nd a machine that only allows for motion along one path does not feel that same as doing the exercise with free moving weights that allow you to move the weight ALONG THE NATURAL LINE OF THE MOTION which is an "S"...
sorry to burst your 80 yrs of training knowledge hoss ;)
-
i sold this smith machine for a few years....it allowed the bar to move front to back and up and down....so essentially it just balanced the bar from side to side for you....
(http://www.2ndwindexercise.com/shop/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/i/file_1_52.jpg)
-
i sold this smith machine for a few years....it allowed the bar to move front to back and up and down....so essentially it just balanced the bar from side to side for you....
(http://www.2ndwindexercise.com/shop/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/i/file_1_52.jpg)
ive never used a smith like this before but id really like to try it and see how it feels
-
When you allow the bar to float you might as well just use a barbell. Much cheaper, too.
-
LMAO first off I said the smith machine has its place so I dont know why you lumped me into the free weight devotee knuckle head crowd...but whatever makes it easier for you to get by
2nd a machine that only allows for motion along one path does not feel that same as doing the exercise with free moving weights that allow you to move the weight ALONG THE NATURAL LINE OF THE MOTION which is an "S"...
sorry to burst your 80 yrs of training knowledge hoss ;)
You are splitting hairs to justify what you do or don't do. Typical of muscleheads who don't want to use machines or being seen using them. If it feels the same then it is the same. What could be simpler?
-
To Dr Chimps. Your personal attacks are pathetic and shameful as well. Do you ever have anything to contribute to bodybuilding besides trivia crap? Stay out of my threads you asshole.
-
well. there are some machines that are better at "targeting" certain muscle for some people.. that is of no doubt.. i used numerous free weight movements for chest for the last 25 years.. my chest did not start to grow until i started using machines and found the right seat setting for my structure and started adding on the weight.. i can feel my pecs from start to finish using most of the hammer machines.. so yes, in some cases the machines have a advantage.. to think that only a massive physique can be built by using free weights is close minded and buying into the "hardcore" mentality that the mags tried to convey.. dorian used a combination of hammer and free weights and smiths machines.. did not hurt his build.. jays primary chest movement is hammer inclines.. so if ya feel machines more than by all means use the hell out of them..
-
To Dr Chimps. Your personal attacks are pathetic and shameful as well. Do you ever have anything to contribute to bodybuilding besides trivia crap? Stay out of my threads you asshole.
Like your petty and vindictive attacks on VinceG!? What a hypocrite.
-
You are splitting hairs to justify what you do or don't do. Typical of muscleheads who don't want to use machines or being seen using them. If it feels the same then it is the same. What could be simpler?
youre defending the smith to justify what you do...i can hear you saying the same bs to potential clients lol
I use the smith but not for bench press, ill do hack squats on them from time to time but mainly for yates row, shrugs and calve raises
I also use machines in my workouts too so dont try and explain my viewpoint as the typical free weight "knuckle head"
being ignorant is one thing but being willingly ignorant is another you sir are willingly ignorant
-
youre defending the smith to justify what you do...i can here you saying the same bs to potential clients lol
I use the smith but not for bench press, ill do hack squats on them from time to time but mainly for yates row, shrugs and calve raises
I also use machines in my workouts too so dont try and explain my viewpoint as the typical free weight "knuckle head"
being ignorant is one thing but being willingly ignorant is another you sir are willingly ignorant
No, I let members train the way they want. Occasionally when I am there I correct poor form. Everyone is an expert after a while. Oblivious but experts just the same!
-
No, I let members train the way they want. Occasionally when I am there I correct poor form. Everyone is an expert after a while. Oblivious but experts just the same!
true and true sir, you particularly should take a lesson from the last sentence in your own quote
-
Basile is so fired up, he's probably had to change his "dignity briefs" 3-4 times by now!
-
Basile is so fired up, he's probably had to change his "dignity briefs" 3-4 times by now!
Dignity briefs, he says.
Comedy gold.
-
Basile is so fired up, he's probably had to change his "dignity briefs" 3-4 times by now!
lolz
-
i sold this smith machine for a few years....it allowed the bar to move front to back and up and down....so essentially it just balanced the bar from side to side for you....
(http://www.2ndwindexercise.com/shop/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/i/file_1_52.jpg)
This is a pretty cool machine. I use it at my gym
-
This is a pretty cool machine. I use it at my gym
It really is. Get a similar feel of free weights, but with the control of it being balanced.
And Basille, unless you have actually tried one, don't bother commenting on it.
-
LMAO @ this retarded fuck trying to convince everyone the smith machine is better than free weights!!
hahahahaaa I bet he had to leave Canada in shame after he told someone his theory on hypertrophy and thats why he won't repeat it.
No one, I've told people before to try the angled smith for shrugs, good way to get the up and back movement of the traps.
-
There is no more irritating gym stereotype than the guy who goes around "correcting poor form".
-
There is no more irritating gym stereotype than the guy who goes around "correcting poor form".
This is true, and people will not listen to you anyway 99% of the time. There is an old dude (must be almost 80) that trains around the same time as me these days. He uses pretty terrible form on most everything, including push ups that look like he is trying to fuck something rather than work his upper body. The thing he does that bothers me, and I probably should help him, is this really aggressive version of a cable crossover with too much weight. I would go as far as to say that he couldn't even tell you what muscle group he is attempting to work. He has a good chance at fucking something like his shoulders up doing this "exercise", but despite being qualified to truly help him, I just keep whatever hat I'm wearing pulled low and listen to my music. I bet the guy would walk away in spite of me being clean now, saying "damn steroids...who the hell is he to talk to me like that"....haha, but it isn't even a joke...
-
There is no more irritating gym stereotype than the guy who goes around "correcting poor form".
Irritating? What a joke. When I design pieces of equipment they are intended to be used in a particular fashion. Most users have too many plates and have to cheat to complete the movements. This applies especially to triceps movements. If the elbows move you can be sure the triceps are not being contracted properly. It isn't always obvious how to position oneself in machines. Even long time members need help from time to time.
I wish I had someone knowledgeable around when I started training. That would have saved me countless years and frustration. Getbiggers have no need for information because they already know everything. Some genuine people send me messages wanting help. I prefer to help them via posts. Otherwise I am doing personal training and I try not to do that.
Look at what this site has become. What a joke. Good threads are hijacked for fun and everyone has a good laugh. Then when we see photos of our heroes they are hardly that.
-
This is true, and people will not listen to you anyway 99% of the time. There is an old dude (must be almost 80) that trains around the same time as me these days. He uses pretty terrible form on most everything, including push ups that look like he is trying to fuck something rather than work his upper body. The thing he does that bothers me, and I probably should help him, is this really aggressive version of a cable crossover with too much weight. I would go as far as to say that he couldn't even tell you what muscle group he is attempting to work. He has a good chance at fucking something like his shoulders up doing this "exercise", but despite being qualified to truly help him, I just keep whatever hat I'm wearing pulled low and listen to my music. I bet the guy would walk away in spite of me being clean now, saying "damn steroids...who the hell is he to talk to me like that"....haha, but it isn't even a joke...
AHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHA i love the name
-
We have all been to gyms where various people are misusing equipment and doing all manner of bad form. I usually wonder who is instructing people in those gyms and how come they aren't helped?
At my gym people appreciate the help I give them because I stick around to make sure they are benefitting from what I tell them. I don't do personal training so give my advice to members that I feel deserve it.
-
Irritating? What a joke. When I design pieces of equipment they are intended to be used in a particular fashion. Most users have too many plates and have to cheat to complete the movements. This applies especially to triceps movements. If the elbows move you can be sure the triceps are not being contracted properly. It isn't always obvious how to position oneself in machines. Even long time members need help from time to time.
I wish I had someone knowledgeable around when I started training. That would have saved me countless years and frustration. Getbiggers have no need for information because they already know everything. Some genuine people send me messages wanting help. I prefer to help them via posts. Otherwise I am doing personal training and I try not to do that.
Look at what this site has become. What a joke. Good threads are hijacked for fun and everyone has a good laugh. Then when we see photos of our heroes they are hardly that.
I believe Vince Goodrum would make a better trainer and get better results from a client than you would.
-
Hapless Chaos having to train in a second rate gym. A pity. Don't take your frustration out on others. Makes you look like a prick.
-
Hapless Chaos having to train in a second rate gym. A pity. Don't take your frustration out on others. Makes you look like a prick.
hahhaa Hate to burst your bubble, denture clacker, but my gym has free weights, no need for a never was, exiled, wanna be bodybuilder that had to pick his own judges to win a contest in a high school auditorium to cruise around looking for young men to "guide" and "spot" while they squat in the smith machine.
-
Irritating? What a joke. When I design pieces of equipment they are intended to be used in a particular fashion. Most users have too many plates and have to cheat to complete the movements. This applies especially to triceps movements. If the elbows move you can be sure the triceps are not being contracted properly. It isn't always obvious how to position oneself in machines. Even long time members need help from time to time.
I wish I had someone knowledgeable around when I started training. That would have saved me countless years and frustration. Getbiggers have no need for information because they already know everything. Some genuine people send me messages wanting help. I prefer to help them via posts. Otherwise I am doing personal training and I try not to do that.
Look at what this site has become. What a joke. Good threads are hijacked for fun and everyone has a good laugh. Then when we see photos of our heroes they are hardly that.
In what way is this a good thread?
-
Basile is so fired up, he's probably had to change his "dignity briefs" 3-4 times by now!
does his brief consist of 5 blue stars that he desperately longed for in Getbig?
-
You are splitting hairs to justify what you do or don't do. Typical of muscleheads who don't want to use machines or being seen using them. If it feels the same then it is the same. What could be simpler?
Compound movements cannot be duplicated with machines. Also, machines cannot built total body power and density like free weights. A physique built on machines does not look as impressive as a physique built on free weights, period.
-
besides the stabilizing muscles weight is weight.. machine or free weight.. if the stress is on the targeted muscle then all is good whether it is a free weight or machine.. the result in the look of the muscle will not be any different..
-
In what way is this a good thread?
Dumb is as dumb posts. This is at least an attempt at discussing equipment and training instead of the rubbish usually posted on Getbig.
-
Dumb is as dumb posts. This is at least an attempt at discussing equipment and training instead of the rubbish usually posted on Getbig.
I'm not sure what thread you are reading but this one is mostly about the pros and cons of machines and free weights, which seems to be your desired topic. Just because most of the posters are disagreeing with your contention that "the angled Smith Machine allows users to duplicate the path used in squats" doesn't mean they are dumb (they are correct) and that the posts are "rubbish". You are the one flying off the handle every time someone disagrees with you.
-
i sold this smith machine for a few years....it allowed the bar to move front to back and up and down....so essentially it just balanced the bar from side to side for you....
(http://www.2ndwindexercise.com/shop/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/i/file_1_52.jpg)
We have one in my gym.it's awesome.
-
There is some confusion about training with machines. Some people don't believe they are useful and miss out on using good equipment. The angled Smith Machine allows users to duplicate the path used in squats, bench presses and other movements. This angle is about 10 degrees from the vertical. Combine that benefit with the safety factor and you have equipment that can be used when training alone.
The handle on my Smith Machine is 1 1/4 inches in diameter. Machines that use Olympic bars are 1 1/8" across. Many machines have a counterweight which more or less eliminates the weight of the bar and so whatever weight you add is what you are lifting. Machines without counterweights seem heavier because you are lifting the bar plus bearing assemblies. On my machine the assembly plus bar weighs about 60 pounds.
When you do squats you do plenty of stabilizing on the machine. To think otherwise means you haven't used these machines.
What a piece of junk
-
Just a matter of time before that know it all buffoon and total nincompoop Melvin Goodrum comments. I swear the guy gets jealous when others are bagging me. Go figure!
Chaos is a jerk and a half for sure. Where do these assholes come from and what do they get out of posting nasty stuff here?
Most of you don't train in a good gym. Attitudes and ideas are absorbed without question by most knuckleheads and they do what the thickheads do.....free weights. What a joke and how noisy and boring.
Too bad some of you can't come to my gym and experience some of my machines. Those who do come would be intimidated by many of the machines so would meekly use the good old dumbbells which suits their style. Bodybuilders are like sheep. They blindly follow whatever is in the magazines. They eat too much protein and most have no clue how to get bigger than they are.
-
What a load of absolute bullshit. Do the damn exercise. It feels the same. Free weight devotees really are close-minded knuckleheads. Toss all the free weights into the ocean and make our sport a better thing. Get rid of all that clanging and tossing weights down. This is primitive bodybuilding at its worst.
3 dimensions equates to strength. Machines are not a substitute.
-
Just a matter of time before that know it all buffoon and total nincompoop Melvin Goodrum comments. I swear the guy gets jealous when others are bagging me. Go figure!
Chaos is a jerk and a half for sure. Where do these assholes come from and what do they get out of posting nasty stuff here?
Most of you don't train in a good gym. Attitudes and ideas are absorbed without question by most knuckleheads and they do what the thickheads do.....free weights. What a joke and how noisy and boring.
Too bad some of you can't come to my gym and experience some of my machines. Those who do come would be intimidated by many of the machines so would meekly use the good old dumbbells which suits their style. Bodybuilders are like sheep. They blindly follow whatever is in the magazines. They eat too much protein and most have no clue how to get bigger than they are.
Basile, you're way too dependent on machines for exercise and fitness while I can train people with little to no equipment at all. Not only that, its always the same thing with you in regards to hypertrophy and your "hand built equipment" and it gets redundant.
As far as that piece of equipment, it looks cheap and poorly crafted and quite frankly, I hate Smith Machines. Free weights are the only way to build proper muscle and using a cage rack system allows you the freedom of movement and safety.
-
Lol @ Basshole melting down over the shitty machines he stole the designs for.
-
Lol @ Basshole melting down over the shitty machines he stole the designs for.
Anyone who can find that I copied other equipment can remove that piece from my gym. How about that? Designing equipment takes a lot of time and a few prototypes to get right. Most bodybuilders who are champions have designed bugger all. Larry Scott had a few ideas but they are simple benches. Who out there has a patent on anything new? I have originated many new ideas on gym equipment. Other companies have copied me here in Australia. One manufacturer gave me a free pec deck because he copied some of my designs. I was the first to use linear bearings in Smith Machines and I solved the problem of friction on those machines. Now everyone uses linear bearings.
-
Anyone who can find that I copied other equipment can remove that piece from my gym. How about that? Designing equipment takes a lot of time and a few prototypes to get right. Most bodybuilders who are champions have designed bugger all. Larry Scott had a few ideas but they are simple benches. Who out there has a patent on anything new? I have originated many new ideas on gym equipment. Other companies have copied me here in Australia. One manufacturer gave me a free pec deck because he copied some of my designs. I was the first to use linear bearings in Smith Machines and I solved the problem of friction on those machines. Now everyone uses linear bearings.
Most people go in gyms to train Vince not start welding shit togeather.
-
Basile, you're way too dependent on machines for exercise and fitness while I can train people with little to no equipment at all. Not only that, its always the same thing with you in regards to hypertrophy and your "hand built equipment" and it gets redundant.
As far as that piece of equipment, it looks cheap and poorly crafted and quite frankly, I hate Smith Machines. Free weights are the only way to build proper muscle and using a cage rack system allows you the freedom of movement and safety.
Goodrum obviously missed the putdowns that Keith used to give him. Most were deserved, too. For a total tool who trains on Pilates machines at home you have a nerve to bag my equipment. It is far from cheap. I use expensive components like stainless steel and Thompson Linear Bearings. The shafts are induction hardened and chrome plated so last and don't rust. The Smith machine I posted is probably the most expensive ever made. The footrest would cost over $1000 because it is solid stainless steel.
Free weights have a place in gyms but I seldom use them except for squats. Squats are not a very good exercise, either. Too much pressure on the spine. I build safety into all my machines. You can't drop the bars on your neck because I have safety rails. Same thing on the Smith machine.
-
Most people go in gyms to train Vince not start welding shit togeather.
Where do all these dense people come from? Look Jaime, just sit there in front of your computer and get a piece of paper and pencil and design something new. You don't have to build it. When you have come up with a new design post it here to demonstrate your ability to create something new.
-
Goodrum obviously missed the putdowns that Keith used to give him. Most were deserved, too. For a total tool who trains on Pilates machines at home you have a nerve to bag my equipment. It is far from cheap. I use expensive components like stainless steel and Thompson Linear Bearings. The shafts are induction hardened and chrome plated so last and don't rust. The Smith machine I posted is probably the most expensive ever made. The footrest would cost over $1000 because it is solid stainless steel.
Free weights have a place in gyms but I seldom use them except for squats. Squats are not a very good exercise, either. Too much pressure on the spine. I build safety into all my machines. You can't drop the bars on your neck because I have safety rails. Same thing on the Smith machine.
Its still a piece of crap because its a glorified Smith Machine. And quite frankly, I sell commercial smith machines that are more durable and much less expensive. Regardless of angle, any exercise on it will be restrictive in movement.
As as far as too much stress on your spine....if you're too big of a wuss to do one of the most easiest exercises out there then you should take up salsa or shuffleboard and stay out of the gym
-
I'm not sure what thread you are reading but this one is mostly about the pros and cons of machines and free weights, which seems to be your desired topic. Just because most of the posters are disagreeing with your contention that "the angled Smith Machine allows users to duplicate the path used in squats" doesn't mean they are dumb (they are correct) and that the posts are "rubbish". You are the one flying off the handle every time someone disagrees with you.
Nope, armchair critics are wrong. Go to a gym and try the angled Smith machine and see for yourself. Pick a time when no muscleheads are there because you don't want to lose face by being seen using machines. I am not flying off the handle. However, the ignorance of most here is remarkable.
-
Its still a piece of crap because its a glorified Smith Machine. And quite frankly, I sell commercial smith machines that are more durable and much less expensive. Regardless of angle, any exercise on it will be restrictive in movement.
LOL. You are a joke, Goodrum. Nobody here would buy anything from you even in a fire sale. My machines endure and endure because of quality components. They will be around long after I am gone.
The angle makes all the difference in movements like squats. I was thinking about making one of my Smith machines with a variable angle but I don't think it is necessary. You obviously haven't tried one of these machines or you wouldn't be making such false statements. Return those diplomas you have because they mislead people.
-
Where do all these dense people come from? Look Jaime, just sit there in front of your computer and get a piece of paper and pencil and design something new. You don't have to build it. When you have come up with a new design post it here to demonstrate your ability to create something new.
I really have no interest in designing gym equipment Vince, i don't see it as a particularly creative endeavour in any event.
If i want to do something creative i will paint or write, or a million other things that i would percieve as being of value.
Free weights are all that is needed in a gym, everything else is trivial.
-
vince you ever see or think of designing a weighted push up machine or a bench machine where you faced down?
LOL know it sounds crazy but i think push ups are alot safer for the shoulders and actually can help shoulder injuries and i feel that they also allow for more focus on the pecs.
-
The lads want a seated dip machine before I would even contemplate anything else. I have an idea for a better triceps machine. The best seated one I have used is the MedX machine where a shoulder restraint restricts body movement during the exercise. The trouble with that unit was the hand grip. It wasn't suitable for the movement. At least the MedX triceps machine tries to provide sufficient resistance near the completion of the movement where it is needed. Arthur Jones did well with that unit. I could improve the handle had I one to work on but they are expensive here in Australia. I have modified a few Nautilus machines and what a pain that was. At least I made two Duo Squat machines safer. Muscleheads seldom use them. The best thing I did at my gym was install a separate free weights room to house the muscleheads. It leaves the main equipment area relatively quiet now. The combination of dumbbells clanging and loud music gives me a headache.
-
I really have no interest in designing gym equipment Vince, i don't see it as a particularly creative endeavour in any event.
If i want to do something creative i will paint or write, or a million other things that i would percieve as being of value.
Free weights are all that is needed in a gym, everything else is trivial.
Exactly, the human body movement is free moving and so should the type of resistance used.
-
Jesus, what did I do to deserve advice from resident buffoon, Vince G CSN MFT PHD!
This joke knows very little, trains at home, and hasn't won even a third rate contest yet. Here he is knocking someone who has successfully installed excellent equipment in several Australian gyms.
According to Goodrum we should all we swinging from trees like apes. Maybe that is how he got his long arms!
-
vince you ever see or think of designing a weighted push up machine or a bench machine where you faced down?
LOL know it sounds crazy but i think push ups are alot safer for the shoulders and actually can help shoulder injuries and i feel that they also allow for more focus on the pecs.
No need for it. Here's what I use....
-
Jesus, what did I do to deserve advice from resident buffoon, Vince G CSN MFT PHD!
This joke knows very little, trains at home, and hasn't won even a third rate contest yet. Here he is knocking someone who has successfully installed excellent equipment in several Australian gyms.
According to Goodrum we should all we swinging from trees like apes. Maybe that is how he got his long arms!
Better to swing from trees in a jungle than hanging out with kids at a jungle gym playground
-
You know, Melvin, after Keith died I stopped bagging you. However, here you are on my thread using the pedo card to discredit me. You should be ashamed of yourself to do such a despicable thing.
You, unfortunately, are a complete and nasty asshole. No doubt about it.
Now we find you are using pushup mechanisms with elastic bands. Good grief, what gimmick will you use next!
-
You know, Melvin, after Keith died I stopped bagging you. However, here you are on my thread using the pedo card to discredit me. You should be ashamed of yourself to do such a despicable thing.
You, unfortunately, are a complete and nasty asshole. No doubt about it.
Now we find you are using pushup mechanisms with elastic bands. Good grief, what gimmick will you use next!
Your post was clearly racist, Goodrum's post was subsequent to your post.
-
No need for it. Here's what I use....
what about for the ppl who can bench more than their body weight? lol
-
Your post was clearly racist, Goodrum's post was subsequent to your post.
Racist? Nope. Goodrum has unusually long arms. It is a fact. I never put people down because of race, sex, or size.
-
what about for the ppl who can bench more than their body weight? lol
I think that's where the band comes in.
Resistance push ups are a funny movement, you put any ammount of weight on your back and it's hard to breathe, pushes down on lower back and so on.
I messed my shoulder a little with about 250lbs added on, i like a really wide grip on push ups and my shoulder tore a little. Only a small tear better now, but resistance push ups are a funny movement.
-
You know, Melvin, after Keith died I stopped bagging you. However, here you are on my thread using the pedo card to discredit me. You should be ashamed of yourself to do such a despicable thing.
You, unfortunately, are a complete and nasty asshole. No doubt about it.
Now we find you are using pushup mechanisms with elastic bands. Good grief, what gimmick will you use next!
You are full of shit stating that. After Keith passed away, you kept taking pot shots at me and keep posting up Keith's arguments with me so get real. And quit playing innocent with the "swinging from tree's comment"..... ::)
The resistance band push up is a great exercise to build the chest and you can practically do it anywhere. Great for folks who travel but can't get to a gym. Don't knock it till you try it
-
what about for the ppl who can bench more than their body weight? lol
Use more bands or do more reps. I usually will have someone superset it with with tricep extensions with that same band.
-
How thick are you Melvin? Not the 131 IQ you boasted about having. Maybe 90 on a good day.
I put up a thread to honour Keith Jones' stories. You posted on it that there was already a thread dedicated him. Well, that pissed me and a few other people off so the gloves came off. I posted about the feud you had with Keith because that was something that consumed a lot of time between the two of you. I was the reporter. If you read the thread you will find I posted heaps of stories that were not at all about you. I haven't posted on your threads since. Besides, Keith was funny in those putdowns and that is what I was archiving.
You do have long arms. That prevents you from getting really big arms. Training with pushups and bands is not going to help you much, either. What a total tool and fool you are.
-
Vince, it is like you are 'born again' since Keith's passing.
He obviously burdoned you greatly when he was alive and posting.
Vince keep your material coming...it is very entertaining.
-
I think that's where the band comes in.
Resistance push ups are a funny movement, you put any ammount of weight on your back and it's hard to breathe, pushes down on lower back and so on.
I messed my shoulder a little with about 250lbs added on, i like a really wide grip on push ups and my shoulder tore a little. Only a small tear better now, but resistance push ups are a funny movement.
how did you manage to add that much weight?
my shoulders are both in some what bad shape so hitting my chest is a tad difficult but i can do push ups and my shoulders actually feel a little better after but its just pointless even at the end of my work out its like a freaking marathon with push ups
-
Vince, it is like you are 'born again' since Keith's passing.
He obviously burdoned you greatly when he was alive and posting.
Vince keep your material coming...it is very entertaining.
Keith running his mouth did make it difficult to explain to people how I train folks. I usually blasted him out of the water but it still wasted valuable monitor space.
-
Keith running his mouth did make it difficult to explain to people how I train folks. I usually blasted him out of the water but it still wasted valuable monitor space.
I could never quite understand your on line relationship with Keith. You certainly could hold your own against his constant taunts and belittling. Keith was absolutely obsessed with you. It was very unhealthy.
Yes, Keith's death is sad. It is sad when anyone goes the way he did. However, i don't think it helped his health by constantly attacking others, in particularly, YOU!
Becile, also seems to have a similar obsession.
-
how did you manage to add that much weight?
my shoulders are both in some what bad shape so hitting my chest is a tad difficult but i can do push ups and my shoulders actually feel a little better after but its just pointless even at the end of my work out its like a freaking marathon with push ups
Heavy bag plus some human dead weight lol.
I love push ups, i always feel my chest working through the whole range and get a good pump.
Sometimes i'll do explosive reps, such as clapping, sometimes really slow, sometimes rythmic where you do it fluidly without lock out. I hate doing hundreds of reps so i normally use added weight and focus on intensity.
-
I could never quite understand your on line relationship with Keith. You certainly could hold your own against his constant taunts and belittling. Keith was absolutely obsessed with you. It was very unhealthy.
Yes, Keith's death is sad. It is sad when anyone goes the way he did. However, i don't think it helped his health by constantly attacking others, in particularly, YOU!
Becile, also seems to have a similar obsession.
Keith at least died a legitimate arm wrestling champion. Basile will die as a the winner of a show that he hand picked his own judges. He also won't ever get any blue stars from Ron.
-
Melvin Goodrum tries hard but he is still a joke. One trophy for 2nd place in a hillbilly contest for intermediates. Come on, Goodrum, find some balls and enter an open division. You are over 30 and have been an expert for years. Show us what you know by placing in a decent show.
Who cares about those blue stars? At least I wasn't given them then had them taken away probably because people contacted Ron to protest.
My keyboard is all I need.
-
Basile, at the end of the day, all the name calling and bitch slapping amounts to nothing.
History Vince is a cruel deciple. And 'history' shows that you used d bol (translation: drug cheat) and won Mr Canada under dubious circumstances.
What does this all mean for you Basile? Well, zero credibility and hypocrisy and its finest...and that is just the beginning of the 'sad tale' that is Vincent Basile.
-
Melvin Goodrum tries hard but he is still a joke. One trophy for 2nd place in a hillbilly contest for intermediates. Come on, Goodrum, find some balls and enter an open division. You are over 30 and have been an expert for years. Show us what you know by placing in a decent show.
Who cares about those blue stars? At least I wasn't given them then had them taken away probably because people contacted Ron to protest.
My keyboard is all I need.
Given and taken away...sorry Basile but I don't know what you're talking about. My bodybuilding shows I did were legitimate as well as my placing. Perhaps if I picked my own judges, then things would have been different but only a ratfink and coward would do something like that. How can you claim your Mr Canada title is legit when YOU PICKED YOUR JUDGES???
-
Melvin Goodrum tries hard but he is still a joke. One trophy for 2nd place in a hillbilly contest for intermediates. Come on, Goodrum, find some balls and enter an open division. You are over 30 and have been an expert for years. Show us what you know by placing in a decent show.
Who cares about those blue stars? At least I wasn't given them then had them taken away probably because people contacted Ron to protest.
My keyboard is all I need.
What a surprise. Navy coloured-poster Vince Basile has come out of nowhere to make yet another antagonistic post vis-a-vis Vince Goodrum. What a hypocrite.
-
Not many bodybuilders have been honest about using drugs. I don't exaggerate or distort the truth. Dianabol gave me a boost in 1970. Not much as I used 2 tablets a day for a few months. That was it. Perhaps I wouldn't have won without them. I will never know. It wasn't being a drug cheat then because it wasn't against the rules. It was cheating, though, in the absolute sense in that I regret having tried them. Just about every national champion since 1970 has used anabolic steroids. They were used long before then as well. Probably by many since 1960.
I have integrity and that gives me credibility. I am definitely not a hypocrite. I don't encourage anyone to use drugs but ultimately that is up to each individual and users have to take all the consequences.
-
I could never quite understand your on line relationship with Keith. You certainly could hold your own against his constant taunts and belittling. Keith was absolutely obsessed with you. It was very unhealthy.
Yes, Keith's death is sad. It is sad when anyone goes the way he did. However, i don't think it helped his health by constantly attacking others, in particularly, YOU!
Becile, also seems to have a similar obsession.
You don't get to pick and choose how you die. It was Keith's time and everyone will have their time whether they like it or not.
-
What a surprise. Navy coloured-poster Vince Basile has come out of nowhere to make yet another antagonistic post vis-a-vis Vince Goodrum. What a hypocrite.
And dickhead Dr Chimps makes another antagonistic nasty post to me.
-
And dickhead Dr Chimps makes another antagonistic nasty post to me.
It's been, what, a year or two, but does it ever occur to you, Vince, that you always need to use invectives when you address me? Is this a tangent on your anger management issue?
-
And dickhead Dr Chimps makes another antagonistic nasty post to me.
Every post you make is nasty and antagonistic you old bore. You do nothing but insult people around here and pretend like you're better than everyone else for some unknown reason, and wonder why nobody likes you. Get the fuck out.
-
What a surprise. Navy coloured-poster Vince Basile has come out of nowhere to make yet another antagonistic post vis-a-vis Vince Goodrum. What a hypocrite.
I don't worry about Basile because every time he discusses anything exercise or fitness related, everyone can see that his ideas are ancient and out-dated. The days of machine weights and gadgets are over with. People are moving back to free weights and high intensity training and core conditioning.
Its a whole new world and Basile is still living in the Jurassic period of it.
-
It's been, what, a year or two, but does it ever occur to you, Vince, that you always need to use invectives when you address me? Is this a tangent on your anger management issue?
When the intelligent behave like dickheads can there be hope for anyone else? You need a punch in the nose not invectives and tangents.
-
When the intelligent behave like dickheads can there be hope for anyone else? You need a punch in the nose not invectives and tangents.
You need your stomach stapled, as well as your mouth and keyboard.
-
Becile has his place here....Sure he is a hypocrite, but who isn't?
We are all hypocrites in some way.
Becile adds a bit of depth and character to this place. Yes i attack him. And yes i praise him....afterall, i am a hypocrite.
Bottom line, Vince is NOT going anywhere. He has been weathering these storms at GB for years now. He is thick-skinned and is not phased in the slightest by attacks on his character, family, hypertrophy theories and business interests.
And to all you bitches out there; if you don't like Basile then it is time you leave. Becile is here for long haul and that is a good thing!
-
I don't worry about Basile because every time he discusses anything exercise or fitness related, everyone can see that his ideas are ancient and out-dated. The days of machine weights and gadgets are over with. People are moving back to free weights and high intensity training and core conditioning.
Its a whole new world and Basile is still living in the Jurassic period of it.
I used to think Keith overdid things when he bagged Goodrum. Now I see how pissed off Goodrum must have made him. It is one thing to be reprimanded and quite another to be completely misunderstood by a nobody who is oblivious of what is going on and who has done bugger all in the irongame except dream and bullshit all day long.
-
Most of you guys should be outside instead of posting on the internet. Here is a photo to help prepare you for summer and motivate you to train harder.
-
I used to think Keith overdid things when he bagged Goodrum. Now I see how pissed off Goodrum must have made him. It is one thing to be reprimanded and quite another to be completely misunderstood by a nobody who is oblivious of what is going on and who has done bugger all in the irongame except dream and bullshit all day long.
Say what you want about Keith but he's dead and his pile of ashes are out floating around in the Pacific Ocean with the whales and dolphins. He was the last person to back you up in your useless tirades and theories and now you have no one you crusty old salt.
You can talk up your little contraption all you want but its been said and done. Body Solid makes an angled smith machine with all the bells and whistles for the fraction of the price of your pile of junk, is better built, and has a lifetime warranty from the company and even has more features and functions including a freeweight option. But seriously Basile, you're need to realize that you're not relevent here no more, you have no friends here, you're not respected here, and you are simply the butt of everyone's joke. You have an intertube of fat around your stomach and you spend your time photographing "young lads" and filming people's funerals. You are no one and you won't even be a footnote in the archives of bodybuilding other the list of people that Arnold Schwartznegger laughed at.
Now be gone and stop wasting the last of your years boring us to death with your bullocks because nobody gives a shit.... ::)
(http://www.rocksolidfitness.com/product_images/g/481/body-solid-series7-package__14119_zoom.jpg)
-
Could you Basile please invent these machines for me:
-A machine that mimicks natural stone lifting
-Axle deadlift machine
-Log press machine.
Thanks. :)
-
There is some confusion about training with machines. Some people don't believe they are useful and miss out on using good equipment. The angled Smith Machine allows users to duplicate the path used in squats, bench presses and other movements. This angle is about 10 degrees from the vertical. Combine that benefit with the safety factor and you have equipment that can be used when training alone.
The handle on my Smith Machine is 1 1/4 inches in diameter. Machines that use Olympic bars are 1 1/8" across. Many machines have a counterweight which more or less eliminates the weight of the bar and so whatever weight you add is what you are lifting. Machines without counterweights seem heavier because you are lifting the bar plus bearing assemblies. On my machine the assembly plus bar weighs about 60 pounds.
When you do squats you do plenty of stabilizing on the machine. To think otherwise means you haven't used these machines.
I own a small gym and we do have an angled smith machine. It's vastly superior to the straight ones but unless you're catering to an injury, etc, it's by far more advantageous to do squats, presses, etc on equipment that offers less stability, thus requiring more from the lifter. The counter thought to that statement would be that it's fine for power or aerobic lifts where failure is a certainty and then to either precede it or follow it up with a movement requiring the aforementioned stability from the lifter
-
well. there are some machines that are better at "targeting" certain muscle for some people.. that is of no doubt.. i used numerous free weight movements for chest for the last 25 years.. my chest did not start to grow until i started using machines and found the right seat setting for my structure and started adding on the weight.. i can feel my pecs from start to finish using most of the hammer machines.. so yes, in some cases the machines have a advantage.. to think that only a massive physique can be built by using free weights is close minded and buying into the "hardcore" mentality that the mags tried to convey.. dorian used a combination of hammer and free weights and smiths machines.. did not hurt his build.. jays primary chest movement is hammer inclines.. so if ya feel machines more than by all means use the hell out of them..
This is 100% correct. Dorian is a good example.
-
Could you Basile please invent these machines for me:
-A machine that mimicks natural stone lifting
-Axle deadlift machine
-Log press machine.
Thanks. :)
End of discussion
-
Lifting logs, stones, and axles have no purchase in bodybuilding routines. Next question.
-
Lifting logs, stones, and axles have no purchase in bodybuilding routines. Next question.
You are very boring man. >:( :)
-
Lifting logs, stones, and axles have no purchase in bodybuilding routines. Next question.
So then it wouldn't be a stretch to say you admit that the Smith machine offers little more than a safe way to achive simple muscle stimulation, and that an athlete would be far better off to base the majority of training around free weight movements and actual sport based movements with only a small portion being devoted to machine based training? .
Bar path, it is important..... .
.
-
You need your stomach stapled, as well as your mouth and keyboard.
lmao!!
-
I am saying that squats on an angled Smith machine or with free weights are equivalent.
-
I am saying that squats on an angled Smith machine or with free weights are equivalent.
And you are wrong.
If you ever squatted in your 52 years of lifting
You would know this
-
I don't think my diet is as good as it should be.
-
I don't think my diet is as good as it should be.
(http://www.i-like-lyrics.com/images/Iggy%20Pop.jpg) .
Iggy sez: Add more smack and red meat.
-
Bodybuilders are slowly but surely embracing machines in their training. Some bodyparts require machines or at least some exercises used for those parts. When you see videos of the top guys training they use lots of equipment and rightly so. They know that it doesn't really matter how you put mechanical tension on a muscle as long as it is effective and intense. Hammer machines are used for chest training. Their one useful machine. Imagine training calves without machines?
The intelligent trainee recuits all manner of apparatus to assist training and make workouts effective. He is not limited by thoughtless muscleheads who have no original ideas and who probably can't comprehend ideas longer than one paragraph. Is it any wonder that supplement companies put ad after ad in muscle magazines? They clearly know the dumbbell population and survive on the ignorance of these hapless and very foolish knuckleheads.
-
Bodybuilders are slowly but surely embracing machines in their training. Some bodyparts require machines or at least some exercises used for those parts. When you see videos of the top guys training they use lots of equipment and rightly so. They know that it doesn't really matter how you put mechanical tension on a muscle as long as it is effective and intense. Hammer machines are used for chest training. Their one useful machine. Imagine training calves without machines?
The intelligent trainee recuits all manner of apparatus to assist training and make workouts effective. He is not limited by thoughtless muscleheads who have no original ideas and who probably can't comprehend ideas longer than one paragraph. Is it any wonder that supplement companies put ad after ad in muscle magazines? They clearly know the dumbbell population and survive on the ignorance of these hapless and very foolish knuckleheads.
Training calves without machines??? Well, how about getting two dumbells and a wooden plank and stand on that plank with your heels hanging off.... ::)
(http://muscleworldorder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/logo11.jpg)
-
Training calves without machines??? Well, how about getting two dumbells and a wooden plank and stand on that plank with your heels hanging off.... ::)
(http://muscleworldorder.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/logo11.jpg)
How about walking up a flight of stairs and doing 10 bw calf raises off each step on the way up ???
-
I believe in machines and free weights but WTF do I know anyway
-
How about walking up a flight of stairs and doing 10 bw calf raises off each step on the way up ???
That works too.
-
How about walking up a flight of stairs and doing 10 bw calf raises off each step on the way up ???
Tried that. No good for hypertrophy of already large calves. More homework needed by the Flotsam. If Goodrum agrees with you that is virtual proof that you have no clue about training.
-
How about not training calves. If you got em, you got em; if not, you ain't getting em.
-
Tried that. No good for hypertrophy of already large calves. More homework needed by the Flotsam. If Goodrum agrees with you that is virtual proof that you have no clue about training.
How would you train calves?
-
Tried that. No good for hypertrophy of already large calves. More homework needed by the Flotsam. If Goodrum agrees with you that is virtual proof that you have no clue about training.
So, you tried it and it somehow didn't work for you so it's "no good for hypertrophy?" I figured some never-was that had to rig a judging panel to win a contest with no other competitors while popping dbol quicker than you give out lollipops at the playground would have elite genetics.
-
So, you tried it and it somehow didn't work for you so it's "no good for hypertrophy?"
Bingo! Vince is opposed to anecdotal evidence, except where it concerns him. Good thing science doesn't work that way.