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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Injury and Rehabilitation => Topic started by: unrageable on July 10, 2011, 02:02:47 PM



Title: knee pain. squats?
Post by: unrageable on July 10, 2011, 02:02:47 PM
Squats are my favourite exercise.  I do them 3 times a week because that's what is in my program.

For about 4 weeks now I have had knee pain.  It was originally only the right knee, but now it's both.  I figure this is from squats.

It might be my form but I am not sure.  I wanted to make sure my form was good when I started working out 5 months ago.  I squat wide because I am tall.  My feet are pointed slightly out so my knees track over them.  I squat very deep.  I have put my feet a bit closer together now, maybe a foot 1/2 apart.

I have no ACTUAL pain when squatting.  Once I am warmed up and I am doing my max I have 0 pain.

I have the pain when I bend down.  Like if I drop something and go to pick it up.  It's pain on the way down but it doesn't keep hurting.  It's just the initial bend which hurts.

I have no problem walking, getting up stairs, jumping, etc.  Only the initial down I feel the pain.  I ride my bike to the gym and can feel it a bit when peddling too.

My knees don't look swollen or strange.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: Butterbean on July 13, 2011, 07:09:31 AM
I always have to ask this because I get knee pain when it is time for new shoes.....how old are your w/o shoes?


Also maybe I'm not clear on your form but if you are squatting and your knees track over your feet but are yet "inside" of your feet...don't do that imo...I am no trainer though.

Can you try to make sure that your knees are inline w/your feet and try not to track over them?


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: unrageable on July 13, 2011, 12:12:20 PM
when I say my knees track over I mean they follow my legs out.  I know your not suppose to have your knees go over your toes.  Maybe I did that a few times if I squatted too deep or maybe leaned forward a bit.  I am squatting with my legs closer together now.  Maybe a foot apart.  Not sure if it's helping, but I feel my quads worked more.

My shoes are maybe 4 years old.  They are flat skateboard shoes.  I use to wear these nike runners but I was told shoes with archs are bad for squatting.

I can feel the pain if I press hard on the top of the knee cap.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: Butterbean on July 14, 2011, 08:48:53 AM
4 years old!   Get some new shoes today lol.

Seriously you should probably replace them every 4 months or so..

Maybe someone else knows a good type of shoe for you to get ...I just wear New Balance ..usually cross trainers.....but I would forget Nike.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: jpm101 on July 14, 2011, 10:46:52 AM
OK, I squat barefooted or on occasion with sandals. Get a much better feel and grip with the toes and whole foot it's self. Same reason I don't surf with shoes on, could not even come close to feel and control of the board. I've had PL'ing boots/shoes in the past, but to me always seemed so restricted when squatting. I'm flatfooted, pretty much born that way like so many of my family, so shoes never really helped me anyway. Best shoes I ever had was when I was playing college football. The trainers really paid attention to the right fit.

That tracking the knee/foot thing is very over rated, where is the logic in that I will never know. Knees not going over the toes...please! Let the knees, acting as hinges, follow their own natural path in squatting, DL's or any thing else. Take any foot position that may feel the best for and  your body type. Everyone is different in this respect. Can't force a square peg in a round hole.

Knee pain sharp, moderate, aching, etc? Could be a knee cap thing, the start of arthritis, ligament/tendon, nerves inflamed, etc. A knee is a very complex unit and nothing really to be guessed at. Might want to have a checkup and see what people with more knowledge think.

Might try replacing squats with another leg exercise for awhile. Or start doing your squats once a week to see how the knee responds. Maybe even try adjusting the height of your bike seat, giving a shorter or longer leg stroke as you peddle. This can affect the knee's also. Good Luck.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: unrageable on July 14, 2011, 11:30:07 AM
should I try squatting barefoot before I get new shoes?  In the dirty gym LOL.

My program Starting Strength is squats once a week though.  The guys on the training forum told me to abandon bench press because I am not seeing results.  If I take away squats this isn't Starting Strength anymore lol.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: chaos on July 14, 2011, 06:20:58 PM
How tall are you?


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: unrageable on July 15, 2011, 05:39:19 PM
6 / 6'1 with no shoes


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: chaos on July 15, 2011, 07:36:42 PM
6 / 6'1 with no shoes
Try to stop going 100% deep, I'm 6'2" and noticed when I was going as deep as possible I would get weird pains after I went super heavy, but stopping shy of sitting on my ankles seems to have helped.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: unrageable on July 15, 2011, 08:41:45 PM
I'll take your advice and get back to you.  Hope it doesn't affect my lifts though.

Squatted 200lbs today.  Deep squats are giving me awesome results  8)

Gotta take care of my knees though this has worried me.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: Meso_z on July 16, 2011, 12:40:34 AM
Lately both my knees hurt like hell man..unable to train legs properly.

Sucks.

This pain comes and goes during the year.

 :-\

Still cant figure out what causes this.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: Butterbean on July 16, 2011, 07:57:37 AM
Lately both my knees hurt like hell man..unable to train legs properly.

Sucks.

This pain comes and goes during the year.

 :-\

Still cant figure out what causes this.

How old are your shoes?


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: chaos on July 18, 2011, 08:59:52 PM
How old are your shoes?
LMFAO.

Unraggable, you don't list what other excercises you do on leg day, alot of people don't realize extentions can wreak havoc on knees as well, also hack squats(f'd mine up for awhile >:( )


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: Meso_z on July 19, 2011, 12:24:15 AM
How old are your shoes?
they are brand new,,,


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: Butterbean on July 20, 2011, 07:05:57 AM
they are brand new,,,

OK ...  but the OP needs new ones :)


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: unrageable on July 20, 2011, 12:23:39 PM
sorry guys I didn't respond.  Couldn't get on the site for a few days.

I squatted one day without shoes.  I don't know if it helped.  I squatted again today with my skateboard shoes.

I did do something different though.  When I unracked I slid my hands to the ends of the bar.  I always squatted with my hands closer, like my ring fingers around the smooth rings.

I don't know if this was better.  I think it gave me better balance.  I saw one guy who was squatting heavy doing that.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: Princess L on July 20, 2011, 12:45:35 PM
It would probably be a good idea to work on your hips, abductors, adductors, and IT band.  Foam rolling the IT band would be a good place to start.

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Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: chaos on July 20, 2011, 08:07:19 PM
sorry guys I didn't respond.  Couldn't get on the site for a few days.

I squatted one day without shoes.  I don't know if it helped.  I squatted again today with my skateboard shoes.

I did do something different though.  When I unracked I slid my hands to the ends of the bar.  I always squatted with my hands closer, like my ring fingers around the smooth rings.

I don't know if this was better.  I think it gave me better balance.  I saw one guy who was squatting heavy doing that.
I always go collar to collar squatting every set. What other leg excercises do you do?


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: unrageable on July 21, 2011, 11:50:39 AM
I dont do any other leg exercises.  Starting Strength says not to deviate the program.  Although I am doing bicep and tricep exercises now because I have small arms.

I did do leg extensions one day though with heavy weight, maybe that made my knees worse.  That was about 3 weeks ago.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: chaos on July 21, 2011, 07:27:01 PM
I dont do any other leg exercises.  Starting Strength says not to deviate the program.  Although I am doing bicep and tricep exercises now because I have small arms.

I did do leg extensions one day though with heavy weight, maybe that made my knees worse.  That was about 3 weeks ago.
WTF is "Starting Strength"?


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: Meso_z on July 21, 2011, 09:54:34 PM
OK ...  but the OP needs new ones :)
;D


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: unrageable on July 22, 2011, 04:14:11 PM
WTF is "Starting Strength"?
it's a weightlifting routine for beginners/novice.  The purpose to build a solid muscle base using compound lifts.  Your not suppose to deviate from the program.

It was recommended to me from a lot of people on bodybuilding.com when I first started 5 months ago.  I am quite happy with all my lifts except bench press which blows, military press which is average, and bent over rows average as well.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: unrageable on July 24, 2011, 07:10:47 PM
well from what I have read on meniscus tear symptoms this doesn't sound like it.  Then again I could just be saying this to make myself feel better LOL  ;D

I have no problem straightening or bending my knee.  I only have the pain when I bend down deep and it's just sharp pain at once.  My need doesn't pop or makes sounds when I squat.  It sometimes cracks though when I straighten it.

Are there any other knee problems could fit this better?  Yeah I haven't gone to the doctor yet lol.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: chaos on July 25, 2011, 07:18:01 PM
well from what I have read on meniscus tear symptoms this doesn't sound like it.  Then again I could just be saying this to make myself feel better LOL  ;D

I have no problem straightening or bending my knee.  I only have the pain when I bend down deep and it's just sharp pain at once.  My need doesn't pop or makes sounds when I squat.  It sometimes cracks though when I straighten it.

Are there any other knee problems could fit this better?  Yeah I haven't gone to the doctor yet lol.
Have you tried squatting on a bench that's slightly lower than your knees?


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: unrageable on July 25, 2011, 10:19:44 PM
squatting on a bench?  What do you mean?  Like drag a flat bench into the squat rack?  ???


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: chaos on July 26, 2011, 05:54:50 PM
squatting on a bench?  What do you mean?  Like drag a flat bench into the squat rack?  ???
Yes, then straddle it and sit down until your ass touches the bench, just touch and go.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: Coach is Back! on July 26, 2011, 11:11:04 PM
Mark Rippetoe is a great coach but there are some things I don't agree with. First rule of thumb is if it hurts don't do it. On the other hand, if the knee pain doesn't hurt in a saggital plain, see what happens in a lateral plain. I suspect one of two things, meniscus or patella tendonitis. If you have patella tendonitis chances are your quad isn't firing. One way to check that is to flex your quad like in a leg extension and see if there is a hard contraction, if it isn't chances are that's it.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: unrageable on July 27, 2011, 04:44:42 PM
what's a saggital plain?

Also when I straighten my leg and flex my quad it's hard.  So it's not pantella tendonitis then?


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: kevcat on August 06, 2011, 04:22:47 PM
hey man i feel your pain.Im currently getting physio cos i pretty much have the same thing.
I can squat after a decent warmup, heavy poundages and no pain UNTIL i finish the set then by the time ive cooled down etc it kills if i bend my knee to pick something up or even getting in and out the car.Ive not been told what it is yet though, theyre tryin to figure it out apparently


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: unrageable on September 02, 2011, 07:05:12 PM
hey man i feel your pain.Im currently getting physio cos i pretty much have the same thing.
I can squat after a decent warmup, heavy poundages and no pain UNTIL i finish the set then by the time ive cooled down etc it kills if i bend my knee to pick something up or even getting in and out the car.Ive not been told what it is yet though, theyre tryin to figure it out apparently
interesting man you will have to keep me updated.  I am to much of a baby to go and get this checked.  Rather ask people on the internet LOL!

I feel the most pain when I am at work on my feet all day.  Anytime that I have to bend down or even if I am standing in place and just flex my right knee.  The pain just sucks.

Right now like sitting at the computer and flex my knee, 0 pain it's weird.

At the gym I only have a little pain when doing warm ups.  Once I start going heavy it goes away.  After I am done my squats it's not bad.  When I leave the gym on my bike 0 pain again.

Doesn't make sense to me.  Doesn't sound like a meniscus tear from what I have read.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: John O on September 05, 2011, 02:24:08 PM
Nobody thinks squatting 3 times a week is too much??


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: unrageable on September 08, 2011, 10:42:45 PM
Nobody thinks squatting 3 times a week is too much??
what do you think it is?  The Starting Strength program says to do that.  I haven't heard many people who did the program get any knee injures.  Maybe I was just unlucky.

I love squatting 3 times a week.  Maybe that's the reason why it's my best.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: John O on September 09, 2011, 11:52:19 AM
Well, I was thinking just to much. Even if you go heavy /light/ light, thats seems like a lot of wear & tear on the knees  :-\.

Things have changed maybe I'm old and should just shut up LOL,  but I was always brought up with the thinking each bodypart should be trained at the most twice a week.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: unrageable on September 11, 2011, 05:13:07 PM
Well, I was thinking just to much. Even if you go heavy /light/ light, thats seems like a lot of wear & tear on the knees  :-\.

Things have changed maybe I'm old and should just shut up LOL,  but I was always brought up with the thinking each bodypart should be trained at the most twice a week.
well duly noted  :) Maybe I'll ask on a few more bodybuilding forums.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: chaos on October 01, 2011, 11:11:18 AM
I think if you mix it up, box squats, safety bar squats, wide/narrow, deep/shallow.....light/heavy......blah blah........3 times is still alot but should be OK.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: unrageable on October 01, 2011, 03:03:47 PM
I am going on vacation in 3 weeks.  I will be gone for a month and a half.  No lifting at all.

So we will see if this heals or not.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: unrageable on October 16, 2011, 05:38:37 PM
only did squats on Monday the 10th just to see if anything would change.  By Wed/Thurs at work it felt pretty good.  Flexing it it after standing still for a while there wasn't much pain.  Now the 16th I have 0 pain.  Can go my knees right to the ground without any pain.

My last week of lifting before vacation.  I'll decide when I come back if I should go back to 3x a week or just do squats 1 day.  It's my favorite exercise so we will see.


Title: Re: knee pain. squats?
Post by: chaos on October 16, 2011, 08:03:26 PM
only did squats on Monday the 10th just to see if anything would change.  By Wed/Thurs at work it felt pretty good.  Flexing it it after standing still for a while there wasn't much pain.  Now the 16th I have 0 pain.  Can go my knees right to the ground without any pain.

My last week of lifting before vacation.  I'll decide when I come back if I should go back to 3x a week or just do squats 1 day.  It's my favorite exercise so we will see.
I'd lean towards cutting back, maybe just twice a week? Like a speed day and a heavy day?