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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: Butterbean on September 04, 2011, 09:04:46 AM
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I've seen people on this site occasionally indicate that the discovery of "alien life" would destroy the Christian faith.
Can someone post where they came up w/this thought?
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Maybe they just thought of it themselves, a theory ???
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I think opinions have changed quite a bit about it but there's still debate on it between christians. It seems like today most christians are open to it but I do remember personally hearing christians say no way to ET or even suggest any such thing would be demons and such.
Here's a pretty cool article on it that goes deep into the history of the issue:
http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0591.html
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Well we know from the Bible that there are different types of angels. We also know that a group of angles left there `first estate``. The sons of God came down to earth in Genesis 6,.. the ones in Genesis had off spring with humans. So could it be that there `first estate`` means a different planet and the sons of God are ET, a strong possibility, doesn`t hinder my faith in the slightest.
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I think Christians will always find a way to bend reality to fit Christianity so I don't think they reject the possibility of other life.
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Well we know from the Bible that there are different types of angels. We also know that a group of angles left there `first estate``. The sons of God came down to earth in Genesis 6,.. the ones in Genesis had off spring with humans. So could it be that there `first estate`` means a different planet and the sons of God are ET, a strong possibility, doesn`t hinder my faith in the slightest.
Ha ha. Funniest thing I've read today.
Thanks, bro.
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Ha ha. Funniest thing I've read today.
Thanks, bro.
This is what I mean by bending reality to make Christianity fit.
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Ha ha. Funniest thing I've read today.
Thanks, bro.
See, I was reffering purely from a Christain point of view. Did you miss what the title of the thread is, or maybe I should have put 'we Christian believe', The term "We know" is from one Christian (myself) to another (Stella). If I was talking to you I wouldn't say "We know" obviously. Not so funny now, is it.This is what I mean by bending reality to make Christianity fit.
C'mon Deicide can you at least agree that if I was a having a conversation with Stella it would be kind of funny for me to say "we Christians believe" right.
JEEEZ YOU HAVE TO WALK ON EGG SHELLS AROUND HERE. ???
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See, I was reffering purely from a Christain point of view. Did you miss what the title of the thread is, or maybe I should have put 'we Christian believe', The term "We know" is from one Christian (myself) to another (Stella). If I was talking to you I wouldn't say "We know" obviously. Not so funny now, is it.C'mon Deicide can you at least agree that if I was a having a conversation with Stella it would be kind of funny for me to say "we Christians believe" right.
JEEEZ YOU HAVE TO WALK ON EGG SHELLS AROUND HERE. ???
What I meant was just that you somehow connected aliens to angels and...anyway.
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What I meant was just that you somehow connected aliens to angels and...anyway.
Actually, I never said I believed that, I am still pondering away at the Genesis 6 mystery, it is however becomimg a more common view for Christians in comparison to the past, the only other alternative, IF THE BIBLIS TRUE, is that the fallen angels are from a different dimension, not enough information in The Bible to come up with a definative answere, very interesting though. 8)
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See, I was reffering purely from a Christain point of view. Did you miss what the title of the thread is, or maybe I should have put 'we Christian believe', The term "We know" is from one Christian (myself) to another (Stella). If I was talking to you I wouldn't say "We know" obviously. Not so funny now, is it.C'mon Deicide can you at least agree that if I was a having a conversation with Stella it would be kind of funny for me to say "we Christians believe" right.
JEEEZ YOU HAVE TO WALK ON EGG SHELLS AROUND HERE. ???
It's still funny. How do you know even when discussing it with other people who agree?
You simply don't. Pretending severely unsubstantiated claims are fact doesn't make them so.
The onus is on you. You're the one babbling like a madman. You have to prove it.
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It's still funny. How do you know even when discussing it with other people who agree?
You simply don't. Pretending severely unsubstantiated claims are fact doesn't make them so.
The onus is on you. You're the one babbling like a madman. You have to prove it.
wether I know for sure or not is completely irrelevent, anybody with a brain speaks in this manner in any subject in the world when 2 people agree, this is the manner in which they would talk, you are the only one that wants to be politacally correct. Even if I am discussing a fictional scenerio, like back to the future, the movie,.. would I say `remember when Marty when back to 1985, oh according to the movie, and remember , according to the movie....etcetc, OBVIOUSLY NOT, you would simply say, `when Marty went back to 1985, he got intouch with .....
Did Marty go back to 1985 in real life, same thing here, when talking about a scenerio in the Bible to someone who fully believes in the Bible, I shouldn`t have to say ``according to the Bible``, only if I was talking to someone that wasn`t in agreement
In the court, lawyers give there scenerio as facts because they need to get there point across, same thing in every scenerio, it would be incredibly stupid of me to say to Stella ``according to the Bible``, the only time it would be appropriate for me to say this to Stella is if I was also telling everyone else and her as well. If you are still not satisfied I will give you 10 pages of examples if you want, this is normal and common, but any chance you get to hack a Christian, you take it, right...
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This is what I mean by bending reality to make Christianity fit.
there's a bunch of articles on the net from christians making the case that Jesus is extraterrestrial so therefore it's ok to believe in ETs lol... Kind of a strange way to make the case haha..
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BWHAHAHAHAHAHA.... Read this lol...
"And now it's time for us to draw a scientific conclusion from these observations: There are at least 59 intelligent, sinning alien civilizations. Deriving this number is an elementary matter of dividing the total number of years of Jesus' absence by the time required to save a civilization. Dividing 1968 by 33 yields 59.6363, a number which we must round down to the nearest whole number. This gives us 59, which is the Scripturally-proven minimum number of intelligent civilizations in the Universe."
http://www.adequacy.org/stories/2001.7.18.112022.112.html
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wether I know for sure or not is completely irrelevent, anybody with a brain speaks in this manner in any subject in the world when 2 people agree, this is the manner in which they would talk, you are the only one that wants to be politacally correct. Even if I am discussing a fictional scenerio, like back to the future, the movie,.. would I say `remember when Marty when back to 1985, oh according to the movie, and remember , according to the movie....etcetc, OBVIOUSLY NOT, you would simply say, `when Marty went back to 1985, he got intouch with .....
Did Marty go back to 1985 in real life, same thing here, when talking about a scenerio in the Bible to someone who fully believes in the Bible, I shouldn`t have to say ``according to the Bible``, only if I was talking to someone that wasn`t in agreement
In the court, lawyers give there scenerio as facts because they need to get there point across, same thing in every scenerio, it would be incredibly stupid of me to say to Stella ``according to the Bible``, the only time it would be appropriate for me to say this to Stella is if I was also telling everyone else and her as well. If you are still not satisfied I will give you 10 pages of examples if you want, this is normal and common, but any chance you get to hack a Christian, you take it, right...
You leave Marty out of this.
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You leave Marty out of this.
lol, how can I, my favourite series, "Don't be so gullible McFly", my fav. seen is where future bif in part 2 throws Marty's future son over the counter in the cafe, then Marty jumps out and future bif say..' OK Let's hear the right answere" then Marty pushes him and Bif goes..."wata,... since when did you become the physical type" with his robot voice. Sorry bro, just so funny ;D
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Yes, some people believe that demons will play a part in the great delusion in the end times masquerading as ETs.
What I meant was just that you somehow connected aliens to angels and...anyway.
I was wondering what you meant till I read this. But the bible as far as I know no way negates the possibility of non-angel ETs.
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What I meant was just that you somehow connected aliens to angels and...anyway.
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/511qQMjKdAL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
(http://l.yimg.com/k/im_sigg7tzEzjT.a.yw8QPV9ZbpCw---y660-x648-q75-n0/omg/us/img/d5/d0/6676_10997240871.jpg)
(http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTVsyiKlu3NTPIdScWekE_K4C6qd1canNrrVP8Q2UR6Et-fryw)
(http://prattleonboyo.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/knowing-aliens.png?w=360&h=214&h=214)
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http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2011/09/13/16-super-earths-found-outside-solar-system/?hpt=hp_c1
16 'super-Earths' found outside solar system
It's not like aliens put up a welcome banner or anything, but scientists now have newly identified at least one planet that could potentially sustain life.
The European Southern Observatory has just announced the discovery of more than 50 new exoplanets (planets outside our solar system), including 16 super-Earths (planets whose mass is between one and 10 times that of our own planet).
One of these planets in particular could theoretically be home to life if conditions are right. It's called HD 85512 b, and scientists say it's about 3.6 times the mass of the Earth. This planet is about 35 light years from Earth. Its location with respect to its star suggests that this planet could have liquid water under certain circumstances.
Don't get too excited, though; there's a lot more work to be done to explore whether this planet is truly fit for life, in addition to whether there are alien life forms there.
The discovery comes from High Accuracy Radial Velocity Planet Searcher, or HARPS. HARPS is located at the La Silla Observatory in Chile, and is part of a telescope that's nearly 12 feet long.
Here's how it works, according to ESO: When a planet orbits a star, the star move towards and away from the person who's stargazing on Earth in a regular fashion. That's called a change in radial velocity. Because of the Doppler effect, changes in radial velocity makes the star's light spectrum move towards longer wavelengths when it's moving away, and towards shorter wavelengths as it gets closer. HARPS can detect this shift in the spectrum, and infer that there is a planet present.
So far, scientists have confirmed the existence of 564 planets outside of our solar system, according to NASA's PlanetQuest website, not counting this latest batch of more than 50. Beyond that, NASA's Kepler mission has found more than 1,200 exoplanet candidates.
"In the coming 10 to 20 years we should have the first list of potentially habitable planets in the Sun's neighbourhood. Making such a list is essential before future experiments can search for possible spectroscopic signatures of life in the exoplanet atmospheres," said Michel Mayor, who led the HARPS team, in a statement.
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It is because God needs to leave all the shit to hit the fan, to prove his original purpose, that he was right and man was wrong.
If there is quote "inteligent life" elsewere in the universe, gods plan for man can not be proven outside of earth.
Acording to christians, that is why we have suffering, and all the shit that goes along with mans first sin.
If there were other life forms on another planet somewere, things would have to pan out in the exact same manner as they have on earth,
eg. first creation sins and god has to let it all go to pot.
Otherwise what point would god have in proving his first plan was correct?
If it worked somewere else there would be no point because the point would be moot.
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It is because God needs to leave all the shit to hit the fan, to prove his original purpose, that he was right and man was wrong.
If there is quote "inteligent life" elsewere in the universe, gods plan for man can not be proven outside of earth.
Acording to christians, that is why we have suffering, and all the shit that goes along with mans first sin.
If there were other life forms on another planet somewere, things would have to pan out in the exact same manner as they have on earth,
eg. first creation sins and god has to let it all go to pot.
Otherwise what point would god have in proving his first plan was correct?
If it worked somewere else there would be no point because the point would be moot.
I guess I'm having a hard time following your logic here? What would one have to do w/the other?
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Haha I reread that and I sound drunk haha. Sorry bout that.
Basicaly if inteligent life was elswere, and it hadnt sinned, there would be no need for god to answer the question of universal sovriegnty.
That is the crux on witch it hangs
If there is inteligent life, and thats the key, inteligent, things would have to pan out exactly the same, or god is just leting all the wrongs in the world happen for nothing.
All life needs to be created by god, and all life is on earth. That was and is his plan. If there were other planets with life even minute amebas or somthing simualer, it would have to mean god has some other plan. And you have to look at the bible as a whole. It says nothing can be added or removed.
So mostly its the question of universal sovgrienty.
I hope that makes a little more sense :)
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Haha I reread that and I sound drunk haha. Sorry bout that.
Basicaly if inteligent life was elswere, and it hadnt sinned, there would be no need for god to answer the question of universal sovriegnty.
That is the crux on witch it hangs
If there is inteligent life, and thats the key, inteligent, things would have to pan out exactly the same, or god is just leting all the wrongs in the world happen for nothing.
All life needs to be created by god, and all life is on earth. That was and is his plan. If there were other planets with life even minute amebas or somthing simualer, it would have to mean god has some other plan. And you have to look at the bible as a whole. It says nothing can be added or removed.
So mostly its the question of universal sovgrienty.
I hope that makes a little more sense :)
Yes, I was able to follow you this time ;D
I still don't think one would have to do w/the other necessarily though. If there is another planet of beings that have free will and each one of them never decided to sin, then God would still be sovereign...just as He was when He would fellowship w/Adam and Eve in the time before they sinned.
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Yes, I was able to follow you this time ;D
I still don't think one would have to do w/the other necessarily though. If there is another planet of beings that have free will and each one of them never decided to sin, then God would still be sovereign...just as He was when He would fellowship w/Adam and Eve in the time before they sinned.
I was just about to say the same thing, it would be a scenerio equivilent to God's relationship with Adam and Eve before they sinned, which could have been many years.
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Yes, I was able to follow you this time ;D
I still don't think one would have to do w/the other necessarily though. If there is another planet of beings that have free will and each one of them never decided to sin, then God would still be sovereign...just as He was when He would fellowship w/Adam and Eve in the time before they sinned.
What if they have never heard of god or Jesus, just like the Native Americans had not for thousands of years before being colonised?
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Yes, I was able to follow you this time ;D
I still don't think one would have to do w/the other necessarily though. If there is another planet of beings that have free will and each one of them never decided to sin, then God would still be sovereign...just as He was when He would fellowship w/Adam and Eve in the time before they sinned.
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You just proved my point, thanks lol.
If Gods sovreignty is not in question then he is leting all the teribble things here on earth take place for nothing. He could have just wiped out Adam and Eve and started over. But for the benifit of the angels, because who else was there at the time, he has let things go on?
So you basicaly just admited that God wont or cant save us from all the wickedness, and in fact is a heartless bastard for alowing it to continue as long as he has.
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How do you come to the conclusion that He allows "all the terrible things here on earth take place for nothing?"
Have you ever gone through a difficult time in your life that has somehow benefitted you or someone else (then or later)?
Yes I believe God allows us to go through suffering although He could end it in any way He sees fit. Sometimes I see why and sometimes I just don't. But I believe He knows everything and I don't.
Mitchy, do you believe in personal responsibility in general?
Yes, I was able to follow you this time ;D
I still don't think one would have to do w/the other necessarily though. If there is another planet of beings that have free will and each one of them never decided to sin, then God would still be sovereign...just as He was when He would fellowship w/Adam and Eve in the time before they sinned.
You just proved my point, thanks lol.
If Gods sovreignty is not in question then he is leting all the teribble things here on earth take place for nothing. He could have just wiped out Adam and Eve and started over. But for the benifit of the angels, because who else was there at the time, he has let things go on?
So you basicaly just admited that God wont or cant save us from all the wickedness, and in fact is a heartless bastard for alowing it to continue as long as he has.
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Yes, I was able to follow you this time ;D
I still don't think one would have to do w/the other necessarily though. If there is another planet of beings that have free will and each one of them never decided to sin, then God would still be sovereign...just as He was when He would fellowship w/Adam and Eve in the time before they sinned.
You just proved my point, thanks lol.
If Gods sovreignty is not in question then he is leting all the teribble things here on earth take place for nothing. He could have just wiped out Adam and Eve and started over. But for the benifit of the angels, because who else was there at the time, he has let things go on?
So you basicaly just admited that God wont or cant save us from all the wickedness, and in fact is a heartless bastard for alowing it to continue as long as he has.
Suffering makes much more sense without any supernatural deity as the universe is pitilessly indifferent to human suffering. The 'problem of evil' only is a problem if you a priori insert a supernatural power into the universe and then say, why does he allow suffering?
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I absolutly believe in presonal responsability. Eg, if u commit crimes ur likely to end up in prison or worse.
And yes, God absolutly IS alowing all the evil to take place in the world.It would be for nothing, only if there were other biengs someplace else.
Adam and eve were created in perfection, placed in a perfect garden, on a perfect earth, in a perfect universe, and sined and blew it all for everyone lol. Now we have natural disasters, disease, plague,
murder, sickness, and death just to name a few.
All for the purpose of proveing Gods right to rule is the correct way, and mans is not.
That was why the first prophecy was uttered.
Now if there were another world of beings anywere else, all this could have played out already.
So either its not true, God dosnt care, or he dosnt exist.
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I absolutly believe in presonal responsability. Eg, if u commit crimes ur likely to end up in prison or worse.
And yes, God absolutly IS alowing all the evil to take place in the world.It would be for nothing, only if there were other biengs someplace else.
Adam and eve were created in perfection, placed in a perfect garden, on a perfect earth, in a perfect universe, and sined and blew it all for everyone lol. Now we have natural disasters, disease, plague,
murder, sickness, and death just to name a few.
All for the purpose of proveing Gods right to rule is the correct way, and mans is not.
That was why the first prophecy was uttered.
Now if there were another world of beings anywere else, all this could have played out already.
So either its not true, God dosnt care, or he dosnt exist.
So you would say that if an Alien planet has real intelligent life, then they would be inferior to Human beings because Adam and Eve are perfect and these Aliens wouldn't be?
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This is all hypothetical nonsense.
There are no Aliens.
Isn't the idea of a "Supreme being" or "God" also hypothetical?
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The onus is on you. You're the one babbling like a madman. You have to prove it.
Actually the onus is equally upon you there brain child as deicide can attest as weve had this conversation time after time.
you yourself make an ascertion that God doesnt exits, this is your stance. Not proving one doesnt prove the other, so you too have to prove your stance.
OTHERWISE it falls into the we dont know category...
hope this helps, doubt it will ;)