Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Wrestling Board => Topic started by: Montague on January 08, 2012, 07:32:44 AM
-
It seems that being an asshole is just in Ole’s lifeblood, as evidenced in how he converses with the guy conducting this phone interview.
However, it’s interesting to listen to some of the accounts regarding the McMahon’s and NWA (+ other territories) during the period from about 1983-1986.
Of particular interest is Ole’s take on the role of cable television in killing off the territories, seeming to suggest that it would have happened with or without Vince Jr's involvement.
Ole points out that his GA program had “national” TV coverage before WWF, although I find it a little pompous to say that he could have done what Vince did just as easily.
IMO, Ole Anderson may have had the opportunity to make the initial moves that Vince did via the cable broadcasting expansion, but he lacked the vision to reach the levels Vince reached with his “MTV” product.
-
Interesting interview.
There are a lot of things wrestling fans debate, but I have found almost universal agreement about people's opionions of Ole Anderson.
I'm not an "insider" like a lot of the guys here, so I never met Ole, but from what I've read from folks here and other wrestlers/referees, etc., Ole is destined to die as friendless as Wahoo McDaniel apparently did.
-
Interesting interview.
There are a lot of things wrestling fans debate, but I have found almost universal agreement about people's opionions of Ole Anderson.
I'm not an "insider" like a lot of the guys here, so I never met Ole, but from what I've read from folks here and other wrestlers/referees, etc., Ole is destined to die as friendless as Wahoo McDaniel apparently did.
I don't know a whole lot about Wahoo, but there's one company that routinely asks past wrestlers they interview to do their "Ole-impersonation."
They began doing it after they noticed a recurring theme: they'd ask the wrestler about working for Ole, and the guy would invariably launch into a mock all on their own accord.
-
In regards to Ole's WWE HOF induction with The Four Horsemen:
"Vince McMahon hates my guts, and I don’t like him. So that’s all there is to it. To be a part of that, anyone with a brain knows who the first Four Horsemen were. It was me and Arn and Ric and Tully Blanchard, and J.J. Dillon was the manager. So if they don’t know that, they don’t know anything about wrestling anyway. So what’s the difference? Vince McMahon is never going to call me. I hate his guts just like he hates mine. It’s no big deal."
source: http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2012/jan/15/mooneyham-column-four-horsemen-back-saddle/
-
I'm surprised Ole hasnt found God as everyone seems to dislike him alot!
-
I'm surprised Ole hasnt found God as everyone seems to dislike him alot!
And, he's sick/ill: two classic symptoms that lead people to sudden religion.
-
And, he's sick/ill: two classic symptoms that lead people to sudden religion.
He has MS, doesn't he? I remember reading that he said he felt he would be better off dead.
-
He has MS, doesn't he? I remember reading that he said he felt he would be better off dead.
Great outlook on life.
-
Great outlook on life.
I know what you mean...but I've known very vibrant people who, once they got really sick, lost the will to live.
-
I know what you mean...but I've known very vibrant people who, once they got really sick, lost the will to live.
Yeah.
Sometimes I think it also has to do with the people around you, too.
I wonder if Ole has anyone who takes care of, or at least checks in on him.
Does he have any family?
Sadly, the only thing I really do know about the man is that he was and is a prick to a lot of people.
In fact, I don't recall anyone ever saying anything good about him. :-\
-
Yeah.
Sometimes I think it also has to do with the people around you, too.
I wonder if Ole has anyone who takes care of, or at least checks in on him.
Does he have any family?
Sadly, the only thing I really do know about the man is that he was and is a prick to a lot of people.
In fact, I don't recall anyone ever saying anything good about him. :-\
I'm sure that "Arn" doesn't count. From what I understand, Ole is about as friendless as a certain member of GetBig is rumored to be. :'(
-
In regards to Ole's WWE HOF induction with The Four Horsemen:
"Vince McMahon hates my guts, and I don’t like him. So that’s all there is to it. To be a part of that, anyone with a brain knows who the first Four Horsemen were. It was me and Arn and Ric and Tully Blanchard, and J.J. Dillon was the manager. So if they don’t know that, they don’t know anything about wrestling anyway. So what’s the difference? Vince McMahon is never going to call me. I hate his guts just like he hates mine. It’s no big deal."
source: http://www.postandcourier.com/news/2012/jan/15/mooneyham-column-four-horsemen-back-saddle/
BIG DEAL!! The 4th Horseman has always been a floating position. They may as well put a question mark or a shadow next to the pics of Blanchard, A. Anderson, and Flair (BTW, how does Flair get inducted TWICE in the HOF?).
- Windham was a Horseman;
- Luger was a Horseman;
- Does WWE realize they just put Chris Benoit in the HOF? He was a Horseman, too.
- Malenko was a Horseman;
- Psycho Sid was a Horseman;
Heck, I've lost count of how many Horseman there have been. Of course, it all revolves around RIC FLAIR. Without FLAIR, there is no Horsemen, just like there's no NWO without Hogan.
-
BIG DEAL!! The 4th Horseman has always been a floating position. They may as well put a question mark or a shadow next to the pics of Blanchard, A. Anderson, and Flair (BTW, how does Flair get inducted TWICE in the HOF?).
Because he's twice as good as everyone else. Whooooooooooooooo !!!!!!
-
Because he's twice as good as everyone else. Whooooooooooooooo !!!!!!
So, if the NWO goes to the Hall of Fame, Hogan gets inducted TWICE.
-
I just read this part of Ole's quote again:
Vince McMahon is never going to call me. I hate his guts just like he hates mine. It’s no big deal."
Obviously, it is a big deal or you wouldn't be talking about it this way, or so much.
And, I'm sure Vince has a lot of sleepless nights over you, Ole. ::)
You haven't been anything but a distant memory in wrestling for how many decades, now?
-
So, if the NWO goes to the Hall of Fame, Hogan gets inducted TWICE.
nWo will and he will.....but Flair >>>>>>>> hogan Whoooooooooooo !!!!!
-
nWo will and he will.....but Flair >>>>>>>> hogan Whoooooooooooo !!!!!
Not even close. Hogan went to WCW and completely ECLIPSED Flair (and that was before the NWO). He got a ticker-tape parade when WCW signed him. Did that happen when Flair went to the WWF? Nope!
Flair even said it himself. If you ask lot of people, not everyone will know who Ric Flair is. Ask them about Hulk Hogan and almost everyone will know who he is.
-
Not even close. Hogan went to WCW and completely ECLIPSED Flair (and that was before the NWO). He got a ticker-tape parade when WCW signed him. Did that happen when Flair went to the WWF? Nope!
Flair even said it himself. If you ask lot of people, not everyone will know who Ric Flair is. Ask them about Hulk Hogan and almost everyone will know who he is.
Don't care one bit what a "lot of people" think. They also think that Brittany Spears is superior to Etta James. Yeah, that was a real "ticker tape parade" for Hogan....wasn't it held at Disney studios or some such nonsense? ::) And Hogan was floundering in WCW before he jumped on the nWo nutsacks. He forced his way into it when he saw it taking off. Without that his tenure in WCW would have been long forgotten.
And besides all that Flair is soooooooooooooooooooooo far superior to hogan on the mic and in the ring, that I really don't care. Hogan was a cartoon character and the only "fans" he had in the 80's were kids, teenage nerds and over 18 mentally handicapped individuals.
-
They also think that Brittany Spears is superior to Etta James. Yeah, that was a real "ticker tape parade" for Hogan....wasn't it held at Disney studios or some such nonsense?
Wow, you just triggered a random trivia flashback in my head!
The c. 1994 WCW shows were taped at one of the lots at Universal Studios.
The audience consisted of mostly tourists who were offered a chance to sit in on a live wrestling show. Most of them were not privy to angles, or even many of the characters, and they cheered and booed based on signs that were shown by the stagehands.
As for Hulkster, yes: he wasn't incredibly hot during his WCW transition.
Of course, neither was WCW programming, which had grown far from its Mid-Atlantic roots by that time.
Bischoff got the idea for the nWo from a Japanese promotion that had done something very similar, and it's been well-established that Luger was slated for the lead until Terry Hogan used his clout to bump the former Narcissist from that spot.
The rest is history.
-
I guess Ole Anderson has been a prick to many people, but I grew up on Georgia Championship Wrestling and still love the old school kayfabe and territory style. If the business was still like that, I'd probably still watch it. I respect Anderson for putting out a good product back then in the infantcy of cable television, I grew up in Ashtabula, Ohio but was able to watch GCW on channel 19 the Superstation.
And to Vince McMahon for changing and then ruining the business, Kiss My Ashtabula !!! ;D
-
Don't care one bit what a "lot of people" think. They also think that Brittany Spears is superior to Etta James. Yeah, that was a real "ticker tape parade" for Hogan....wasn't it held at Disney studios or some such nonsense? ::) And Hogan was floundering in WCW before he jumped on the nWo nutsacks. He forced his way into it when he saw it taking off. Without that his tenure in WCW would have been long forgotten.
And besides all that Flair is soooooooooooooooooooooo far superior to hogan on the mic and in the ring, that I really don't care. Hogan was a cartoon character and the only "fans" he had in the 80's were kids, teenage nerds and over 18 mentally handicapped individuals.
Hopped on the NWO nutsacks? What revisionist history are you watching? Hogan WAS the NWO. The whole concept of the NWO was ex-WWF guys taking over WCW. Hogan was the most logical choice. Without Hogan, the novelty of Hall and Nash jumping ship would have long worn off and there would have been no "Monday Night Wars".
Hogan not only dominated WWF; he came to WCW, RIC FLAIR'S TURF, and took over there. And that was BEFORE the formation of the NWO. Hogan's fans were in all age ranges and, when he came back to WWE, even as a heel, he got more cheers than The Rock, the biggest face in the company at that time.
Flair can't touch Hogan; even HE admitted that Hogan was a bigger star. He called Hogan the biggest star of all time, of course, until he got inducted in the HOF; then he said that Austin was. "I'm sick and tired of saying that it's Hogan; it ends today."
-
Hopped on the NWO nutsacks? What revisionist history are you watching? Hogan WAS the NWO. The whole concept of the NWO was ex-WWF guys taking over WCW. Hogan was the most logical choice. Without Hogan, the novelty of Hall and Nash jumping ship would have long worn off and there would have been no "Monday Night Wars".
Hogan not only dominated WWF; he came to WCW, RIC FLAIR'S TURF, and took over there. And that was BEFORE the formation of the NWO. Hogan's fans were in all age ranges and, when he came back to WWE, even as a heel, he got more cheers than The Rock, the biggest face in the company at that time.
Flair can't touch Hogan; even HE admitted that Hogan was a bigger star. He called Hogan the biggest star of all time, of course, until he got inducted in the HOF; then he said that Austin was. "I'm sick and tired of saying that it's Hogan; it ends today."
Wrong. Hogan wasn't even the first choice to head the nWo, it was Luger. Ask Monty. Yeah a stable of Hall, Nash, Perfect, Bret, etc... would have just tanked. ::)
And thinking Hogan sustained a bigger reaction from the fans than when the Rock returned is laughable. I'm not a Rock guy, but he was at least as big a deal returning and sustained a longer pop than Hogan.
Hogan is like Arnold......Flair is like DeNiro. You prefer comic books and I prefer War and Peace..... Hogan is the biggest draw ever, but Flair is the greatest wrester ever.
It's like saying that some American Idol winner is a better musician because they sold more albums than someone less known, but who put out far superior music.
One closing thought, Flair could put over a broomstick in a match, Hogan could take another star and turn them into a broomstick.
-
After the Disney parade hoopla, Hulk more and more frequently became the recipient of lukewarm receptions throughout much of 1995 and on into ‘96. When the nWo angle began, the original idea was to reveal Luger as the third member and leader. During this same time, Hogan recognized that he needed to do something to revive his character, and when he saw how hot Hall & Nash were becoming, he used his political power to scoop Lex’s spot.
Hogan may have become synonymous with the nWo, but it was never formed with the intention of him being a key player in it.
As for Luger, I doubt he would have been as effective in the role. He had an unimpressive track record on the heels of his WWF run; his last big push being the “Lex Express,” which fizzled fast.
-
After the Disney parade hoopla, Hulk more and more frequently became the recipient of lukewarm receptions throughout much of 1995 and on into ‘96. When the nWo angle began, the original idea was to reveal Luger as the third member and leader. During this same time, Hogan recognized that he needed to do something to revive his character, and when he saw how hot Hall & Nash were becoming, he used his political power to scoop Lex’s spot.
Hogan may have become synonymous with the nWo, but it was never formed with the intention of him being a key player in it.
As for Luger, I doubt he would have been as effective in the role. He had an unimpressive track record on the heels of his WWF run; his last big push being the “Lex Express,” which fizzled fast.
But, but Hogan was "tearing it up!" ;D
I think Perfect would have been the "perfect" choice to head up the nWo.
-
But, but Hogan was "tearing it up!" ;D
I think Perfect would have been the "perfect" choice to head up the nWo.
I think Hulk Bollea did tear it up for the first couple of months because fans were so damned excited that wrestling's biggest name joined their company, which also made it huge news in the wrestling world. But, by then, Hogan's act was old and had become a paradigm.
That's why Hulk, personally, made the decision to cast himself as the nWo leader.
I'd have LOVED to see Hennig head the group. Had they booked it properly, I think Curt would have been a fantastic choice; although, that contingence was highly unlikely.
I had some hope when it looked like he'd become a Horseman, but what did they do?
They put him in that stupid "West Texas Redneck" gang.
-
Wrong. Hogan wasn't even the first choice to head the nWo, it was Luger. Ask Monty. Yeah a stable of Hall, Nash, Perfect, Bret, etc... would have just tanked. ::)
And thinking Hogan sustained a bigger reaction from the fans than when the Rock returned is laughable. I'm not a Rock guy, but he was at least as big a deal returning and sustained a longer pop than Hogan.
I know Hogan wasn't the first choice. It was supposed to be STING, not Luger. A major over babyface had to be the 3rd guy. But, Hogan was the better choice than Sting, anyway. Two ex-WWF superstars joined by the BIGGEST WWF superstar of them all.
As for Hogan and Rock, can you say WRESTLEMANIA 18? Even before then, when Hogan accepted Rock's challenge and later got jacked by Hall and Nash, Hogan was actually getting CHEERED (as a heel) for whipping Rock with his weightlifting belt. At 'Mania itself, the fans were BOOING Rock and cheering Hogan. Chants of "Rocky Sucks", which fans hadn't been using in years, were echoing throughout the SkyDome.
Hogan is like Arnold......Flair is like DeNiro. You prefer comic books and I prefer War and Peace..... Hogan is the biggest draw ever, but Flair is the greatest wrester ever.
It's like saying that some American Idol winner is a better musician because they sold more albums than someone less known, but who put out far superior music.
One closing thought, Flair could put over a broomstick in a match, Hogan could take another star and turn them into a broomstick.
Anyone in a match with Hogan was in the "Main Event". Hogan's career has been almost as long as that of Flair. So, your comparison is rather inaccurate. Their careers have paralleled each other. And Hogan has had the better deal. He became the face of WRESTLING, not just a particular company, but the business itself. Again, Hogan not only ruled the WWF, he also went to Flair's turf and outshined the Nature Boy there, especially when the NWO was formed.
If you'd said that anyone would be a bigger heel in WCW than Flair, people would have thought you were nuts. But, Hogan did it and it shocked the wrestling world. Luger turning heel? BIG DEAL!! Sting.....Possibly!! Bret Hart? BIG WHOOP!! But Hogan...........that was HUGE.
-
After the Disney parade hoopla, Hulk more and more frequently became the recipient of lukewarm receptions throughout much of 1995 and on into ‘96. When the nWo angle began, the original idea was to reveal Luger as the third member and leader. During this same time, Hogan recognized that he needed to do something to revive his character, and when he saw how hot Hall & Nash were becoming, he used his political power to scoop Lex’s spot.
Hogan may have become synonymous with the nWo, but it was never formed with the intention of him being a key player in it.
As for Luger, I doubt he would have been as effective in the role. He had an unimpressive track record on the heels of his WWF run; his last big push being the “Lex Express,” which fizzled fast.
Hogan was simply the better fit. Ironically, "Real American" wasn't designed for Hulk Hogan in the WWF. But, when Tom Cenk left and the US Express was no more, the company gave the song to Hogan.....you know the rest!!!
-
Anyone in a match with Hogan was in the "Main Event". Hogan's career has been almost as long as that of Flair. So, your comparison is rather inaccurate. Their careers have paralleled each other. And Hogan has had the better deal. He became the face of WRESTLING, not just a particular company, but the business itself. Again, Hogan not only ruled the WWF, he also went to Flair's turf and outshined the Nature Boy there, especially when the NWO was formed.
If you'd said that anyone would be a bigger heel in WCW than Flair, people would have thought you were nuts. But, Hogan did it and it shocked the wrestling world. Luger turning heel? BIG DEAL!! Sting.....Possibly!! Bret Hart? BIG WHOOP!! But Hogan...........that was HUGE.
My comparison is that while Hogan was the bigger "star" Flair is/was the better wrestler. There is a difference. I never viewed wrestling from the "he's in the main event so he's the man" because very often there were far better wrestlers in undercard matches because of the politics of the sport, something Hogan was VERY good at. Flair was at times, but not like Hogan.
To me the proof is that has Hogan EVER had a 5 star match? Flair has too many to count, all over the world. IMO, same with promos. Flair has so much classic stuff that is still entertaining to listen to today. Hogans old promos are pathetic and like I mentioned in an earlier post, directed towards pre-teens and morons.
It's all personal choice of course....and I prefer classics and you prefer whatever sells the most albums, it's that simple.
-
Hogan was simply the better fit. Ironically, "Real American" wasn't designed for Hulk Hogan in the WWF. But, when Tom Cenk left and the US Express was no more, the company gave the song to Hogan.....you know the rest!!!
Are you referring to Tom Zenk?
He didn't come to WWF until his buddy Rick Martel brought him in in the Fall of 1986, which was well after production of WWF's The Wrestling Album in 1985.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ce/The_Wrestling_Album.jpg)
That album featured "Real American" by Rick Derringer, which was initially intended for use by the tag team of Barry Windham and Mike Rotundo.
Hulk's Rock 'N' Wrestling cartoon theme was featured on the album, but he'd begun using the Derringer track for his own entrance music by Wrestle Mania II.
And, check out the Macho Man sporting the zebra stripes!
I LOVE this era of wrestling!!
-
Are you referring to Tom Zenk?
He didn't come to WWF until his buddy Rick Martel brought him in in the Fall of 1986, which was well after production of WWF's The Wrestling Album in 1985.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ce/The_Wrestling_Album.jpg)
That album featured "Real American" by Rick Derringer, which was initially intended for use by the tag team of Barry Windham and Mike Rotundo.
Hulk's Rock 'N' Wrestling cartoon theme was featured on the album, but he'd begun using the Derringer track for his own entrance music by Wrestle Mania II.
And, check out the Macho Man sporting the zebra stripes!
I LOVE this era of wrestling!!
Thanks!! I don't know what I was thinking when I said Tom Zenk. Oh, now I do, I was watching some old Strike Force videos on YouTube.
-
My comparison is that while Hogan was the bigger "star" Flair is/was the better wrestler. There is a difference. I never viewed wrestling from the "he's in the main event so he's the man" because very often there were far better wrestlers in undercard matches because of the politics of the sport, something Hogan was VERY good at. Flair was at times, but not like Hogan.
To me the proof is that has Hogan EVER had a 5 star match? Flair has too many to count, all over the world. IMO, same with promos. Flair has so much classic stuff that is still entertaining to listen to today. Hogans old promos are pathetic and like I mentioned in an earlier post, directed towards pre-teens and morons.
It's all personal choice of course....and I prefer classics and you prefer whatever sells the most albums, it's that simple.
Has Hogan had a 5-star match? Hmmmm....WrestleMania 6 (vs. Ultimate Warrior), WrestleMania 18 (vs. The Rock); WrestleMania 3 (vs Andre the Giant).
Hogan's promos were WILD. Listening to Flair, yap about women and song over and over, while hiding behind the Horsemen grew so tired it was ridiculous. No moment Flair had in his career can touch "The Slam Heard 'Round The World".
Hogan put an entire industry on his back, in the TWO BIGGEST PROMOTIONS in the business. He trumped Flair, not only on his turf but on FLAIR'S turf. Guys, against whom Flair would struggle and slog for nearly an hour (i.e. Terry Funk, Harley Race), Hogan would slap silly in a matter of minutes.
Flair, claiming he was the best in the world with a 300-lb juggernaut, making mincemeat out of folks he beat by the skin of his teeth, simply didn't fly. Even FLAIR HIMSELF (until he switched to Austin in 2008) had to bow down and admit that Hogan was THE MAN in the business.
-
Has Hogan had a 5-star match? Hmmmm....WrestleMania 6 (vs. Ultimate Warrior), WrestleMania 18 (vs. The Rock); WrestleMania 3 (vs Andre the Giant).
Hogan's promos were WILD. Listening to Flair, yap about women and song over and over, while hiding behind the Horsemen grew so tired it was ridiculous. No moment Flair had in his career can touch "The Slam Heard 'Round The World".
Hogan put an entire industry on his back, in the TWO BIGGEST PROMOTIONS in the business. He trumped Flair, not only on his turf but on FLAIR'S turf. Guys, against whom Flair would struggle and slog for nearly an hour (i.e. Terry Funk, Harley Race), Hogan would slap silly in a matter of minutes.
Flair, claiming he was the best in the world with a 300-lb juggernaut, making mincemeat out of folks he beat by the skin of his teeth, simply didn't fly. Even FLAIR HIMSELF (until he switched to Austin in 2008) had to bow down and admit that Hogan was THE MAN in the business.
Ummmm, you do realize it's all predetermined, right? And NONE of those matches are even close to 5 star matches by Hogan. You just don't get it. Flair carried those guy in matches for the good of the product. I'm beginning to think you are still a mark, but who knows.
-
Ummmm, you do realize it's all predetermined, right? And NONE of those matches are even close to 5 star matches by Hogan. You just don't get it. Flair carried those guy in matches for the good of the product. I'm beginning to think you are still a mark, but who knows.
I have never heard of a Hogan match being mentioned as a two star, never mind a five. Huge crowds? Sure. But never anything close to a great match.
I guess saying which one cut the better promo is all opinion, but I think Flair would win in a huge margin if you had a poll? He is pretty much considered without peer on the mic. I know I would rather hear about Space Mountain than sitting backstage eating fruit and being cool, brother, but that is just me.
As Stoppa said, just because something sells the most albums does not make it the best.
The end of the argument is this: Flair has almost universal praise from his peers as being the very best. That says plenty for me.
-
Just my .02 ...
This isn't "scientific" by any stretch of the imagination, but almost all conversations I have about wrestling come down to someone using one of Flair's catchphrases far more than any of Hulk's.
Although personally, I like to go Baron von Raschke and say in a fake German accent, "Dat is all da people need to know!!"
-
One observation I've made is that, while Hogan has reinvented his character - to some degree - several times over the years, the Ric Flair character has pretty much stayed unchanged. We've seen multiple heel & face turns, but Ric's persona was unaltered. There aren't too many guys who've done the same act with essentially linear success for as long as Ric did. That includes Taker, Rock, Austin, Hulk, etc.
That is quite remarkable, and a true testament to the performer.
-
One observation I've made is that, while Hogan has reinvented his character - to some degree - several times over the years, the Ric Flair character has pretty much stayed unchanged. We've seen multiple heel & face turns, but Ric's persona was unaltered. There aren't too many guys who've done the same act with essentially linear success for as long as Ric did. That includes Taker, Rock, Austin, Hulk, etc.
That is quite remarkable, and a true testament to the performer.
I was thinking about something similar today. Eye of the Tiger came on the radio and it reminded me that Hogan has had a number of theme songs, whereas Flair has always only had "2001"
and you are right. His "character" is simply him and has been ever since he first came to the Mid-Atlantic in the 70's.
And as Ole Big said, Flair is widely recognized by his peers as being "the man" so I will trust the opinions of those who know.
-
I was thinking about something similar today. Eye of the Tiger came on the radio and it reminded me that Hogan has had a number of theme songs, whereas Flair has always only had "2001"
and you are right. His "character" is simply him and has been ever since he first came to the Mid-Atlantic in the 70's.
And as Ole Big said, Flair is widely recognized by his peers as being "the man" so I will trust the opinions of those who know.
I want to know what radio station you are listening to?
-
I want to know what radio station you are listening to?
It sure wasn't WRFR or WLTM, stud.
-
It sure wasn't WRFR or WLTM, stud.
What? Pat Kelly isn't your boy anymore?
-
What? Pat Kelly isn't your boy anymore?
Greatest senior league coach in Community Bldg history.
-
Wasn't there someone else to be the chosen one before Hogan? Same time frame
-
Wasn't there someone else to be the chosen one before Hogan? Same time frame
Sometime around '86/'87, Vince tried out a bodybuilder/strongman from Manitoba named Tom Magee.
Physically, Tom looked outstanding, but although Stu Hart trained him for a few months, you'd have never known it.
He wasn't very good in the ring.
The old man was said to have creamed his pants (figuratively...I think) at the sight of Magee, and a couple of guys have gone on record saying that Hogan was more than a little nervous over the prospect of his potential/likely "replacement."
They fed him some skilled jobbers, including Bret, but Magee just never worked out.
I mean, he was athletic and worked very hard, but maybe he just didn't have any aptitude for the ring.
Not everyone does.
(http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/pictures/t/tommagee/01.jpg)
-
I was thinking about something similar today. Eye of the Tiger came on the radio and it reminded me that Hogan has had a number of theme songs, whereas Flair has always only had "2001"
and you are right. His "character" is simply him and has been ever since he first came to the Mid-Atlantic in the 70's.
And as Ole Big said, Flair is widely recognized by his peers as being "the man" so I will trust the opinions of those who know.
Actually, Flair didn't use the 2001 theme, during his 91-93 run in WWE.
-
I have never heard of a Hogan match being mentioned as a two star, never mind a five. Huge crowds? Sure. But never anything close to a great match.
I guess saying which one cut the better promo is all opinion, but I think Flair would win in a huge margin if you had a poll? He is pretty much considered without peer on the mic. I know I would rather hear about Space Mountain than sitting backstage eating fruit and being cool, brother, but that is just me.
As Stoppa said, just because something sells the most albums does not make it the best.
The end of the argument is this: Flair has almost universal praise from his peers as being the very best. That says plenty for me.
I've mentioned three of those matches. The crowds were not only huge, they were LOUD. The Hogan-Rock match, the fans went nuts. They BOOED the Rock and cheered for Hogan, despite the WWF breaking its neck trying to make Hogan a heel. Hogan beat Rock with his weightlifting belt, had Hall and Nash hit the Razor's Edge and Jacknife powerbombs (respectively) on Rock, whacked Rock in the head with a hammer, leg-dropped him, spray-painted him, and to top it all off nearly SMASHED Rock in the ambulance with a tractor-trailer.......YET THE FANS STILL CHEERED FOR HOGAN.
Chants of "Rocky Sucks", which the Rock hadn't heard in YEARS, were booming throughout the Sky Dome. The fans were engaged throughout the bout. Of course, the ultimate "mark-out" moment was Hogan kicking out of the Rock Bottom and "hulking up". That sealed it!!! It also marked the end of the NWO, as there was no way Hogan was staying a heel.
As far as the mic goes, I don't pay to hear people yap; I pay to see people scrap.
-
All of that is great I guess. But absolutely none of it makes your point about a five star match OR respect from his peers. Has there ever been a five star with interference?
It might have marked the end of the nWo. Unfortunately, it was probably the last time Hogan got a pop. Three weeks later, he could not get a peep from the crowd one way or the other. It is easy to get heat when you show up once per year. The ability to sustain it is what matters.
Someone said earlier that Hogan made the nWo. I attended many Nitros back then, and frequented many boards, so I feel like I was pretty up with the smarks and marks. I don't recall a single person saying they came to see Hogan. Everyone marked for Hall and Nash, but either hated Hogan being around, or didn't care one way or the other.
Yes, Bash At The Beach caused quite a stir, and Hogan still forced himself to the front, but the nWo was still Hall and Nash.
-
Actually, Flair didn't use the 2001 theme, during his 91-93 run in WWE.
Thats on VKM, not Flair.
-
As far as the mic goes, I don't pay to hear people yap; I pay to see people scrap.
Then why all the love for Hogan who was AT BEST an average in-ring worker? I'll venture to say that you were about 9-12 yrs old when Hogan was in his heyday in the 80's.
-
All of that is great I guess. But absolutely none of it makes your point about a five star match OR respect from his peers. Has there ever been a five star with interference?
It might have marked the end of the nWo. Unfortunately, it was probably the last time Hogan got a pop. Three weeks later, he could not get a peep from the crowd one way or the other. It is easy to get heat when you show up once per year. The ability to sustain it is what matters.
Someone said earlier that Hogan made the nWo. I attended many Nitros back then, and frequented many boards, so I feel like I was pretty up with the smarks and marks. I don't recall a single person saying they came to see Hogan. Everyone marked for Hall and Nash, but either hated Hogan being around, or didn't care one way or the other.
Yes, Bash At The Beach caused quite a stir, and Hogan still forced himself to the front, but the nWo was still Hall and Nash.
Didn't Hogan get a pop when he won the Undisputed World title from Triple H?
Not to mention the night after WrestleMania 18 in Montreal.....
And, there's Rock-Hogan II
-
Thats on VKM, not Flair.
Reminds me of what they did with Hennig’s “Mr. Perfect” ring music, which was basically a kind of “re-mix” of the theme from Exodus. I seem to remember WWF using the actual Exodus soundtrack for a couple of Curt’s earlier Fed matches, which is a big no-no in terms of copyright licensing.
With the Mr. P theme, they included bits of the original, omitted some parts, and altered others - all just enough that they could legally use it.
Flair’s 1991 WWF music undoubtedly has its roots in the 2001 score; especially that one particularly identifiable chord that really stands out. The original has been around for so long, that it may be public domain, meaning anyone can use it - which I suspect is the case since he’s used it for so many years in multiple companies.
With WWF, I would easily believe that Vince had his music guys change it simply for the sake of being different, which the old man has always had a strong tendency of doing.
-
All of that is great I guess. But absolutely none of it makes your point about a five star match OR respect from his peers. Has there ever been a five star with interference?
That wasn't the match. That was the aftermath of the promo in which Rock challenged Hogan to go toe-to-toe at WrestleMania.
The match itself was GREAT, no interference!!
It might have marked the end of the nWo. Unfortunately, it was probably the last time Hogan got a pop. Three weeks later, he could not get a peep from the crowd one way or the other. It is easy to get heat when you show up once per year. The ability to sustain it is what matters.
Again, see the post-WrestleMania Raw in Montreal, the match where Hogan wins the undisputed title, and the rematch with Rock in 2003.
Someone said earlier that Hogan made the nWo. I attended many Nitros back then, and frequented many boards, so I feel like I was pretty up with the smarks and marks. I don't recall a single person saying they came to see Hogan. Everyone marked for Hall and Nash, but either hated Hogan being around, or didn't care one way or the other.
Yes, Bash At The Beach caused quite a stir, and Hogan still forced himself to the front, but the nWo was still Hall and Nash.
I disagree. No Hogan, no NWO!! The reason the gimmick took off was because the unthinkable (at that time, at least) happened. The ultimate babyface of wrestling (not just of WCW or WWF) just went rogue. Again, the concept was that two WWF guys were invading WCW. They were on the hunt for the "Huckster" and the "Nacho Man". They wanted to officially start the war with "Billionaire Ted". But usually when there are "Outsiders", there's also an insider. Who better to be that insider than the ULTIMATE ex-WWF guy, the "Huckster", if you will, Hulk Hogan.
People could buy Hall and Nash being heels; they were initially heels in the WWF as Razor Ramon and Diesel, respectively. But, Hogan....NO WAY!!! The ultimate hero became the supreme traitor. That took a HUGE amount of fans from Raw to Nitro. That wouldn't have happened had Sting been the third man.
-
Sometime around '86/'87, Vince tried out a bodybuilder/strongman from Manitoba named Tom Magee.
Physically, Tom looked outstanding, but although Stu Hart trained him for a few months, you'd have never known it.
He wasn't very good in the ring.
The old man was said to have creamed his pants (figuratively...I think) at the sight of Magee, and a couple of guys have gone on record saying that Hogan was more than a little nervous over the prospect of his potential/likely "replacement."
They fed him some skilled jobbers, including Bret, but Magee just never worked out.
I mean, he was athletic and worked very hard, but maybe he just didn't have any aptitude for the ring.
Not everyone does.
(http://www.onlineworldofwrestling.com/pictures/t/tommagee/01.jpg)
No it was defiinitely the 83/84 time frame when Hogan beat the Sheik.......I will have to do somne research.
-
No it was defiinitely the 83/84 time frame when Hogan beat the Sheik.......I will have to do somne research.
Hmm...
You've got me there, man.
-
No it was defiinitely the 83/84 time frame when Hogan beat the Sheik.......I will have to do somne research.
Are you talking about Paul Orndorff?
-
One thing I always found humorous was that when Vince was "stealing" talent from all of the other territories, he pretty much made them all the same promise: that he had big plans for them, they would work big money programs, be the top draw of the territory, etc.
There were a lot of guys who got pissed off when reality manifested, but they stuck around because Vince paid better simply because he drew more.
-
One thing I always found humorous was that when Vince was "stealing" talent from all of the other territories, he pretty much made them all the same promise: that he had big plans for them, they would work big money programs, be the top draw of the territory, etc.
There were a lot of guys who got pissed off when reality manifested, but they stuck around because Vince paid better simply because he drew more.
And they had ZERO drawing power in other feds after being a rooster, clown, etc.... and jobbing to Hogan for 150 straight house shows and Saturday Nights Main Event.
-
One thing I always found humorous was that when Vince was "stealing" talent from all of the other territories, he pretty much made them all the same promise: that he had big plans for them, they would work big money programs, be the top draw of the territory, etc.
There were a lot of guys who got pissed off when reality manifested, but they stuck around because Vince paid better simply because he drew more.
Reminds me of what used to go on in college football back in the old days...all the "negative" recruiting. Big schools recruiting good athletes that they had zero intentions of actually using, just to keep them from signing with a rival. They don't do that nowadays since there are strict scholarship limits.
-
Reminds me of what used to go on in college football back in the old days...all the "negative" recruiting. Big schools recruiting good athletes that they had zero intentions of actually using, just to keep them from signing with a rival. They don't do that nowadays since there are strict scholarship limits.
Now they just sign as many guys as possible, but cut them loose right before they have to file the paperwork for scholarships. Read an article on that issue last year. Doesn't give the guys time to find other schools. and its perfectly legal by the NCAA. Sad.
-
One thing I always found humorous was that when Vince was "stealing" talent from all of the other territories, he pretty much made them all the same promise: that he had big plans for them, they would work big money programs, be the top draw of the territory, etc.
There were a lot of guys who got pissed off when reality manifested, but they stuck around because Vince paid better simply because he drew more.
Funny as I am reading Piper's book right now, and that one of Vince's tactics to penetrate another territory was to hold a benefit show for a fallen wrestler. What was the territory's promoter going to say....it was a benefit show. Also that alot of these guys were wrestling without contracts and one week before WM 1, Vince approached Hot Rod with a contract and said "sign it" or you won't be in Wrestlemania.
Also said that he felt he had alot more drawing power than Hogan and that people did not watch WM to see Hogan and Mr T but rather to see Roddy get his ass kicked as he had soo much heat. All a matter of opinion.
Also it may have been Orndorff as the original chosen one...I have to research..
-
Funny as I am reading Piper's book right now, and that one of Vince's tactics to penetrate another territory was to hold a benefit show for a fallen wrestler. What was the territory's promoter going to say....it was a benefit show. Also that alot of these guys were wrestling without contracts and one week before WM 1, Vince approached Hot Rod with a contract and said "sign it" or you won't be in Wrestlemania.
Also said that he felt he had alot more drawing power than Hogan and that people did not watch WM to see Hogan and Mr T but rather to see Roddy get his ass kicked as he had soo much heat. All a matter of opinion.
I may have touched upon this in another thread, but...
I like Roddy.
I think Roddy's done a lot of drugs.
I think drugs have fried part of Roddy's brain, and I don't put a whole lot of credibility in what he says - especially as many of his "arguments" about even opinion-based matters like who drew Mania are thin at best.
My buddy saw Piper at the 2005 WWE HOF; said he walked around in sunglasses the whole time and acted stoned out of his mind.
-
Now they just sign as many guys as possible, but cut them loose right before they have to file the paperwork for scholarships. Read an article on that issue last year. Doesn't give the guys time to find other schools. and its perfectly legal by the NCAA. Sad.
That's even worse...at least in the old days the kid got a four year ride.
One more reason that I don't have a major problem with football players leaving early, transferring, etc. That "loyalty" thing is a two-way street.