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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Voland on February 01, 2012, 03:25:40 PM



Title: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Voland on February 01, 2012, 03:25:40 PM
when and why?

Imma try traps with legs. They need some direct work now. When do you do traps?


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: jpm101 on February 01, 2012, 03:43:19 PM
If you want traps with legs, than do DL's or even BB Hacks.  Consider squat cleans,also, an ultimate exercise..

If doing DL's, than shrug the shoulders up as you rise to the full standing position. Hold the shrug, than lower the bar to the floor again.

Make your time in the gym worth your while. Good Luck.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: WOOO on February 01, 2012, 04:10:49 PM
I like shrug DLs too... but these days I am just doing 3 sets of 15 barbell shrugs..


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: jon cole on February 02, 2012, 03:42:03 AM
i do traps after shoulder, it works great.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: chaos on February 02, 2012, 06:13:58 AM
Both.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Donny on February 02, 2012, 06:17:46 AM
traps can be trained better in my opinion with back training. as pointed out deadlifts work your traps very well and if you do want more then for me Dumbbell shrugs are king. Donīt understand why some people use upright rows.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: SamsonD on February 02, 2012, 08:19:23 AM
I wasn't getting the growth I wanted without direct trap work.  So I still hit them indirectly with back exercises, but now I do three or four sets of either BB or DB shrugs at the end of my shoulder/tri workout and have had really good results.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Donny on February 02, 2012, 08:28:15 AM
I believe shrugs help to keep your shoulders healthy and help lift and support the shoulder girdle. Together with training the rear deltoid..it helps against shoulder pain. Think of the amount of training the front and side delts get from pressing alone. you know it makes sense!


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Voland on February 02, 2012, 10:14:58 AM
I did back today and threw 3 sets of db shrugs.
I might do the same on shoulder-triceps day.

I'm not looking for the mountain traps but the inner part to add some thickness to the top part of my back because my lats are growing nice and that part looks kinda shallow.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Donny on February 02, 2012, 10:34:33 AM
then you need to isolate the region with an exercise ...lye on a flat bench and hold 2 bells with arms bent 90% but with your lower forearms vertical. raise your shoulder region upwards. This is a very small but effective movement


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Voland on February 02, 2012, 10:44:56 AM
then you need to isolate the region with an exercise ...lye on a flat bench and hold 2 bells with arms bent 90% but with your lower forearms vertical. raise your shoulder region upwards. This is a very small but effective movement

Palms face each other or palms face the feet?


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Donny on February 02, 2012, 12:15:14 PM
Palms face the feet and you are lying FACE down on the bench (hope you understand my description)


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: HEAVYLIFT on February 02, 2012, 02:46:29 PM
what's your split ?


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Voland on February 02, 2012, 03:42:45 PM
what's your split ?

chest-biceps
legs
rest
shoulder-triceps
back, traps, rear delts
rest
rest


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: HEAVYLIFT on February 03, 2012, 03:15:30 AM
separate the back and shoulders workout and work your traps 2x per week

exercise wise you gotta find out what works for you, if nothing is working try something new

check john meadows channel, he has some cool exercises  8)

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLA808445EA052D63A&feature=plcp



Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: jon cole on February 03, 2012, 05:08:38 AM
traps can be trained better in my opinion with back training. as pointed out deadlifts work your traps very well and if you do want more then for me Dumbbell shrugs are king. Donīt understand why some people use upright rows.


after 10 year of unsuccesful traps training i started upright row last august...my traps are now bigger than ever, i use light weight, focus on lock out of traps and negative phase,

i do 4 sets of 10/15 reps with upright row, then 4 set of barbell shrugs, and my traps are burning like hell and are now visible under my t shirt.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: jpm101 on February 03, 2012, 08:24:41 AM
Agree with Jon Cole a 100%. UP-Right rows are one of my few favorite exercises (others being pullover & press and BB Hacks..least favorite..any form of curling). And Jon has the good sense to do them the right way for BB'ing. The squeeze/contraction at the top position can be worth trying. Negatives are good, but tend to recruit more of the bicep/forearm on the way down, if that is what you want. With shrugs, the extra kicker is included. Some may Pre-exhaust the area by doing the shrugs first, than Up-rights.

Which strongly points out, even more, that some exercises are not meant for everyone. Can include squats, DL's and the overused BB bench press as other examples in  BB'ing. Have gotten in the habit of using an Olympic style bar (E-Z bar) for the last couple of years with good results. Might suggest an E-Z bar (Olympic or exercise bar) for some who never can get use to a straight bar. And relieve some wrist/elbow tensions, perhaps.

Problem (my view only) most make is not keeping the bar hugging the body, but allowing it to drift out and away from the body, on the way up or down. This will put too much pressure on the shoulder girdle/rotor cuff, besides not working the traps the way they should be worked. Also raising the bar too high up, above mid/upper chest level is not required. Again, too much pressure on the shoulder girdle. Important that not too wide a grip is used, but having the hands around 6-7" apart. This is where a lot of guy's make their biggest mistake. There are wide grip pulls but they fall in he class of Hi-pulls and only go as high as lower pecs. Gironda favored this style for side delt width. Good Luck..



Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Donny on February 03, 2012, 08:36:22 AM
upright rows are for me a shoulder killer. shrugs hit the traps better and to hit the side delts side raises do the job better. If you have an "allround" programme then traps and shoulders get worked non stop. Deadlifts with heavy weight develop the traps and with shrugs and side raises lifting the bells above shoulder level...itīs enough. Upright rows work for some...that is true but...for me itīs crap. Off course we are all diffrent and itīs good so ;D


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Voland on February 03, 2012, 09:40:26 AM
upright rows are for me a shoulder killer. shrugs hit the traps better and to hit the side delts side raises do the job better. If you have an "allround" programme then traps and shoulders get worked non stop. Deadlifts with heavy weight develop the traps and with shrugs and side raises lifting the bells above shoulder level...itīs enough. Upright rows work for some...that is true but...for me itīs crap. Off course we are all diffrent and itīs good so ;D

Yup no upright rows for me either. Shoulder, elbow and wrist killer. Ain't worth it.
I'll be trying new exercises for a while and then i'll stick with a couple. 


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: chaos on February 03, 2012, 10:16:21 AM
I think jpm mentioned it but its worth noting...most people pull upright rows too high, this is what creates the stress in wrist/shoulder/elbow, imo. Done at mid chest levels seems to be best.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: wes on February 03, 2012, 11:14:35 AM
I always do traps with back as a rule......it`s a back muscle, though it is also a part of the shoulder girdle.

I do shrugs or db shrugs........I also do a thing called "armpit rows" where the db`s are held at your sides by the outer quad and pulled into the armpit.......you can`t really pull them all the way up,but as high as you can will create a great peak contraction in the traps especially if held at the top for a second or two.

As far as uprights go,wider grip to lower pec line = side delt.............closer grip to chin = traps.

Used to do a lot of dead hang cleans back in the day......great exercise if you haven`t tried it yet.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: tbombz on February 03, 2012, 11:22:41 AM
i always do back rear delts and traps together.

side delts, front delts, chest, and arms together.

makes sense to me to do it that way, though traps are involved in side delts i am pretty darn good at relaxing them.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: jon cole on February 03, 2012, 11:27:09 AM
Agree with Jon Cole a 100%. UP-Right rows are one of my few favorite exercises (others being pullover & press and BB Hacks..least favorite..any form of curling). And Jon has the good sense to do them the right way for BB'ing. The squeeze/contraction at the top position can be worth trying. Negatives are good, but tend to recruit more of the bicep/forearm on the way down, if that is what you want. With shrugs, the extra kicker is included. Some may Pre-exhaust the area by doing the shrugs first, than Up-rights.

Which strongly points out, even more, that some exercises are not meant for everyone. Can include squats, DL's and the overused BB bench press as other examples in  BB'ing. Have gotten in the habit of using an Olympic style bar (E-Z bar) for the last couple of years with good results. Might suggest an E-Z bar (Olympic or exercise bar) for some who never can get use to a straight bar. And relieve some wrist/elbow tensions, perhaps.

Problem (my view only) most make is not keeping the bar hugging the body, but allowing it to drift out and away from the body, on the way up or down. This will put too much pressure on the shoulder girdle/rotor cuff, besides not working the traps the way they should be worked. Also raising the bar too high up, above mid/upper chest level is not required. Again, too much pressure on the shoulder girdle. Important that not too wide a grip is used, but having the hands around 6-7" apart. This is where a lot of guy's make their biggest mistake. There are wide grip pulls but they fall in he class of Hi-pulls and only go as high as lower pecs. Gironda favored this style for side delt width. Good Luck..




thanks dude,,,
i'm 33 y/o and i almost destroy my left shoulder with awful form / too heavy - bench press so now i let my ego in the locker room

at the top of upright row the bar touch the point of my chin, i focuse on contraction at top, and imagine that i try to push somethin back with my elbow, during the negative phase i try to put all the weight on my traps.

i only use 120 lbs for heaviest set, and i always do a light set a the end with 100lbs, with constant contraction and it's a trap killer, i try to increase weight from time to time but if i can't touch my chin with the bar then i lower the weight .


i do shrugs after uprow, doing as many reps as i can properly, then give a little kick with calves to lift the bar and focus on negative for a few rep more.

  


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Donny on February 03, 2012, 11:34:38 AM
Great feed back here...great advice.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: jon cole on February 03, 2012, 11:39:42 AM
1-dumbell pull over for back and upper body
2-front squat for quads and core strength
3-up row for traps
4-military press for shoulder and core strenght

4 good old forgotten exercises that gives you a solid look.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: chaos on February 03, 2012, 11:51:25 AM
Wes I don't know what that move is called but I saw Milos do it and I tried it, love it!! Rear delt/traps are fried when you do that move properly.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: wes on February 03, 2012, 06:39:59 PM
Wes I don't know what that move is called but I saw Milos do it and I tried it, love it!! Rear delt/traps are fried when you do that move properly.
Yeah,I saw them first done in an article by Ron Harris,then I gave them a shot....he called them "armpit rows" !!

I add them in now and then......good movement for sure.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: chaos on February 03, 2012, 06:56:07 PM
Did them today, it's a short move, but effective for rear delts/traps.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: njflex on February 03, 2012, 08:16:27 PM
i switched rear delts to back day recently,,,traps and delts together still narrowed it to press movement,more side laterals,fronts get worked well with upper pec movements anyway.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Voland on February 04, 2012, 12:48:56 AM
Yeah,I saw them first done in an article by Ron Harris,then I gave them a shot....he called them "armpit rows" !!

I add them in now and then......good movement for sure.

Oh no, you didn't  :D

If i understood, those are like a shrug with a longer ROM (flexing the elbows back).


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: wes on February 06, 2012, 06:58:19 PM
Oh no, you didn't  :D

If i understood, those are like a shrug with a longer ROM (flexing the elbows back).
More like a dumbell upright row,but the bells are held at the side of the legs and pulled into the armpit area,or as high as you can pull them as they cannot go all the way up to the armpit,but it serves as a good way to describe the exercise.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: njflex on February 06, 2012, 07:33:18 PM
More like a dumbell upright row,but the bells are held at the side of the legs and pulled into the armpit area,or as high as you can pull them as they cannot go all the way up to the armpit,but it serves as a good way to describe the exercise.
yeah,,vizualizing them ,,i've done them in past,,,hmmm try again.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Voland on February 07, 2012, 12:49:24 AM
More like a dumbell upright row,but the bells are held at the side of the legs and pulled into the armpit area,or as high as you can pull them as they cannot go all the way up to the armpit,but it serves as a good way to describe the exercise.

I will try 3 sets of this and 3 db shrugs.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: deadz on February 08, 2012, 04:09:00 PM
I always do them with shoulders.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: jon cole on February 10, 2012, 11:26:14 PM
best traps training = up row / shrugs / armpit

3 set of each.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: TrapsMcLats on February 19, 2012, 09:45:13 PM
Don't forget from the floor cleans!! Best exercise to build bigass traps.  I shy from shrugs because they make my neck too big (I am in radio/tv so i don't want to look stupid), and i think they don't hit JUST the traps as effectively.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Meso_z on March 02, 2012, 07:17:51 AM

after 10 year of unsuccesful traps training i started upright row last august...my traps are now bigger than ever, i use light weight, focus on lock out of traps and negative phase,

i do 4 sets of 10/15 reps with upright row, then 4 set of barbell shrugs, and my traps are burning like hell and are now visible under my t shirt.
How do you perform them? What grip and what kind of bar do you prefer?


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Voland on March 02, 2012, 09:33:15 AM
i did armpit rows 6sets (3 with elbows back and 3 with elbows out. it feels different) light weight, slow movement, holding and squeezing up. high reps.
followed by 4 sets of plate shrugs.
i did it after back.
Today i feel my inner traps a little sore. Not bad for the first time.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: jon cole on March 02, 2012, 11:46:29 PM
How do you perform them? What grip and what kind of bar do you prefer?


straight barbell, grip a little bit narrow than shoulder,using light weight, focus on trying to put my elbow as high as possible, lock my traps.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: local hero on March 03, 2012, 01:05:48 AM
with back every time for me...

what im fond of doing is training my lats 1st, then traps then finish off with a deadlift type movement

everynow n then i'll knock a few sets of shrugs out on any random training day, do the same thing with calves too


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: deadz on March 13, 2012, 06:35:06 PM
DB shrugs are the most effective movement for my trap development.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Voland on March 15, 2012, 04:57:04 PM
did the armpit rows today
i dunno how they are most effective driving the elbows back while going up or the elbows out. so i did 3 sets of each.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: chaos on March 15, 2012, 05:30:58 PM
did the armpit rows today
i dunno how they are most effective driving the elbows back while going up or the elbows out. so i did 3 sets of each.
Elbows back, as close to the body as you can, keep your head forward so the traps can flex.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Donny on March 16, 2012, 11:49:55 AM
DB shrugs are the most effective movement for my trap development.
Me too


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: epicmass on March 20, 2012, 03:26:48 AM
when and why?

Imma try traps with legs. They need some direct work now. When do you do traps?

Do back and shoulders in the same workout = problem solved


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: wild willie on July 23, 2012, 11:52:27 AM
I prefer to work traps with shoulders.....just my 2 cents. To each his own.


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Darren Avey on July 24, 2012, 09:30:00 AM
I do heavy shrugs with back after deads and light (sets of 20) shrugs after shoulders therefore twice a week and the results have been amazing


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: POB on July 24, 2012, 06:12:07 PM

after 10 year of unsuccesful traps training i started upright row last august...my traps are now bigger than ever, i use light weight, focus on lock out of traps and negative phase,

i do 4 sets of 10/15 reps with upright row, then 4 set of barbell shrugs, and my traps are burning like hell and are now visible under my t shirt.

This is good advice, also behind the back shrugs in the smith


Title: Re: traps, with back or with shoulder or other?
Post by: Meso_z on July 26, 2012, 01:28:24 AM
Im gonna give those armpit rows a try.. 8)