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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: oni on February 25, 2012, 02:52:47 AM



Title: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: oni on February 25, 2012, 02:52:47 AM
I keep seeing mentioning that you need to know how to cycle testosterone correctly
So assuming that I won't ever come off or will just cruise sometimes & also that I will probably never compete just want that 4-5 week out look / fitness model physique...
What is the correct way to cycle testosterone?

The compounds that I am most likely to use when I go on are:
Testosterone p/c/e blend
Equipoise
Trenbolone
Dianabol
Anadrol
Nandrolone

Cheers


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: BiGHer on February 25, 2012, 11:11:12 AM
What are your current stats?  Photo?

Get lean and hard first using a low test:high anabolics ratio.  Then once you are lean (7%ish), add in a higher dose of test.  If you are going to put in high dose test though, it's better to have hgh there with it and you will blow back up, but still remain lean.

However, if you just want to consistantly walk around with a 4 week out look, I would go low test.  If libido becomes an issue, increase the test just enough so you don't have any problems.

I don't know what you currently use, your experience with hormones, or what you look like, but try this:

Mondays: 1 cc of Test Enanthate, 1 cc of EQ

Wednesdays: 1 cc of EQ

Fridays: 1 cc of EQ

1 cc of Test Prop and 1.5 cc Tren Ace taken Every other day

When you get under 8% bf, add in Anadrol... 100-150 mgs everyday






Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: oni on February 25, 2012, 01:31:14 PM
What are your current stats?  Photo?

Get lean and hard first using a low test:high anabolics ratio.  Then once you are lean (7%ish), add in a higher dose of test.  If you are going to put in high dose test though, it's better to have hgh there with it and you will blow back up, but still remain lean.

However, if you just want to consistantly walk around with a 4 week out look, I would go low test.  If libido becomes an issue, increase the test just enough so you don't have any problems.

I don't know what you currently use, your experience with hormones, or what you look like, but try this:

Mondays: 1 cc of Test Enanthate, 1 cc of EQ

Wednesdays: 1 cc of EQ

Fridays: 1 cc of EQ

1 cc of Test Prop and 1.5 cc Tren Ace taken Every other day

When you get under 8% bf, add in Anadrol... 100-150 mgs everyday






Thanks pal, looks good. I have no real experience with hormones (I have taken dbol and adrol to compete in cycling, nothing for bodybuilding) so what you wrote looks good for me. I'll probably leave out the tren until I am a bit more experienced though. I am about 11% and plan on dieting down as much as possible before I go on the hormones in about september time, so still trying to push my bodyweight up atm.

What about adding dbol in 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off until I am on the tren? Don't care about water bloat too much until summer time but would prefer low test dosage still

Cheers


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: BiGHer on February 25, 2012, 01:38:15 PM
Thanks pal, looks good. I have no real experience with hormones (I have taken dbol and adrol to compete in cycling, nothing for bodybuilding) so what you wrote looks good for me. I'll probably leave out the tren until I am a bit more experienced though. I am about 11% and plan on dieting down as much as possible before I go on the hormones in about september time, so still trying to push my bodyweight up atm.

What about adding dbol in 4 weeks on, 4 weeks off until I am on the tren? Don't care about water bloat too much until summer time but would prefer low test dosage still

Cheers

Forget dbol.  Don't waste your time.

That whole cycle goes to shit honestly if you don't have the tren in there.  What is your reasoning behind being hesitant with tren?

The doseage I gave is relatively moderate.  You shouldn't be worried in my opinion.  Unless you are a drinker.  Drinking isn't good with Tren.  Up to you though, but that cycle won't be nearly as effective without tren and actually doesn't make sense to switch the dbol in for the tren.


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on February 25, 2012, 01:43:44 PM
cycling is good for a bike.  With test, just stay on, up it, down it, but stay on it.


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: oni on February 26, 2012, 03:17:59 AM
Forget dbol.  Don't waste your time.

That whole cycle goes to shit honestly if you don't have the tren in there.  What is your reasoning behind being hesitant with tren?

The doseage I gave is relatively moderate.  You shouldn't be worried in my opinion.  Unless you are a drinker.  Drinking isn't good with Tren.  Up to you though, but that cycle won't be nearly as effective without tren and actually doesn't make sense to switch the dbol in for the tren.

Well I am just a bit anxious to get on it really. I've never done oils before, just one oral cycle for sports and wanted something that was "beginner friendly".
If it really doesn't matter though I will go in balls deep for my first cycle.
Just to clarify what are the dosages? The tren I can get is 100/100 ace/e and the best testosterone I can get is either 350mg/ml and 400mg/ml (prop, cyp and enan blend). Equipoise is 300mg/ml so how does this sound? I chose sun.wed simply because I will be training m/t/th/f and doing so would make the spike of test/tren fall on my training days.

Sunday:
200mg testosterone blend, 300mg eq, 200mg tren

Wednesday:
200mg test blend, 300mg eq, 200mg tren


I get that I may as well include tren as soon as possible as it will be just the same whether it's my first cycle or 50th, but the main anxiety I have is do I really need to be taking 1.4g of AAS on my first cycle? Seems like one big ass boost from "natural" to me lol.


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: Yannyboy on February 26, 2012, 04:52:06 AM
I bulked on 1.5g of test just before xmas and now I'm cutting on 700mg tren and 200mg test
Haven't used any orals for over a year now


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: oni on February 26, 2012, 05:02:20 AM
I bulked on 1.5g of test just before xmas and now I'm cutting on 700mg tren and 200mg test
Haven't used any orals for over a year now

How long did it take you to work up to 1.5g of test?
I'd like to be around your size, maybe a little bigger but better condition than your avatar (but you're cutting anyway lol)
I just think 1.4g of androgens is a lot for a first cycle really


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: Yannyboy on February 26, 2012, 05:05:11 AM
How long did it take you to work up to 1.5g of test?
I'd like to be around your size, maybe a little bigger but better condition than your avatar (but you're cutting anyway lol)
I just think 1.4g of androgens is a lot for a first cycle really
Went from 500g to 750mg to 1g to 1.5g in about 14 months with a bit of deca and tren thrown in now and again
Yes, I need to lose a bit more bodyfat


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: oni on February 26, 2012, 05:21:28 AM
maybe I could half the dose of equi and tren
That would only be 900mg a week total and as equipoise has low androgenic activity I think this would be much more manageable lol
Then up the dose as I see fit


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: oni on March 01, 2012, 09:35:22 PM
One more question:
Why & when should I increase dosage of testosterone? Assuming I won't be taking growth hormone


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: Arnold jr on March 01, 2012, 10:25:33 PM
Forget dbol.  Don't waste your time.

That whole cycle goes to shit honestly if you don't have the tren in there.  What is your reasoning behind being hesitant with tren?

The doseage I gave is relatively moderate.  You shouldn't be worried in my opinion.  Unless you are a drinker.  Drinking isn't good with Tren.  Up to you though, but that cycle won't be nearly as effective without tren and actually doesn't make sense to switch the dbol in for the tren.

Dbol....the most misunderstood anabolic steroid on getbig.com and without question, the most feared for reasons that make no sense on getbig.com and what's more, the most underutilized steroid on getbig.com

Dbol is in my opinion the single greatest oral steroid of all time; in-fact, if I were bodybuilding it would be the only oral steroid I'd ever use. The reason the perception of Dbol exist on getbig.com is pretty simple...GH15 made numerous comments about Dbol, either he doesn't actually understand it, or because of the way he writes things it got twisted in translation, but either way, immediately a bunch of people on this board started bashing Dbol and is hasn't stopped since.

I'm not saying anything about comparing Dbol to Tren, I'm not even really responding to this thread directly.

Test, Tren and Dbol....with these three steroids alone, if most people put in the time to do things right they could actually use only these three steroids and get all they want.


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: FAST LANE on March 01, 2012, 10:31:12 PM
Dbol....the most misunderstood anabolic steroid on getbig.com and without question, the most feared for reasons that make no sense on getbig.com and what's more, the most underutilized steroid on getbig.com

Dbol is in my opinion the single greatest oral steroid of all time; in-fact, if I were bodybuilding it would be the only oral steroid I'd ever use. The reason the perception of Dbol exist on getbig.com is pretty simple...GH15 made numerous comments about Dbol, either he doesn't actually understand it, or because of the way he writes things it got twisted in translation, but either way, immediately a bunch of people on this board started bashing Dbol and is hasn't stopped since.

I'm not saying anything about comparing Dbol to Tren, I'm not even really responding to this thread directly.

Test, Tren and Dbol....with these three steroids alone, if most people put in the time to do things right they could actually use only these three steroids and get all they want.
Agreed... It's all about diet, and your caloric intake.. like numerous fellas have stated before, any steroid can be used for anything really,,, all that matters is diet... gh15 used to love dbol back in the day I'm pretty sure... still likes it, just most people don't know how to "use" it correctly


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: flinstones1 on March 01, 2012, 10:32:07 PM
dbol is by far my favorite steroid. I've never tried tren though. I fucking hate testosterone with a passion (dont respond to it)


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: FAST LANE on March 01, 2012, 10:33:45 PM
dbol is by far my favorite steroid. I've never tried tren though. I fucking hate testosterone with a passion (dont respond to it)
What do you mean you don't respond to it bro?  No results?


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: flinstones1 on March 01, 2012, 10:46:20 PM
What do you mean you don't respond to it bro?  No results?
Nope, I get nothing past 600mg test or so. As far as responding to it I mean I guess? I developed a dimple chin since I've been using it and a more masculine jawline and shrunken balls so I guess I "respond" to synthetic testosterone ;D, but as far as muscle growth? test does shit for me. I used a shitload of testosterone the past few years...must of run at least 6 test only cycles...I ran it for like two years straight lol never below 500mg... so I can speak from experience here-  and only when I add the anabolics do I notice tissue growth piling on. Right now I'm on 900mg deca,600mg primo and the strongest and biggest I have ever been. Face is bloated really bad but my skin looks fantastic, chest and arms are up in size alot.

 I actually did some research to learn there is a reason why you will never be at your biggest on lots of testosterone vs if you were on high doses of anabolics, but I don't care to explain cause I know people will disagree with me lol. Guys are stubborn, they take high doses of test cause they feel they must, but you really only need 200mg or so to prevent the dangers of low test like diabetes and stuff. it I just know there are alot more huge guys who don't use test then there are huge guys who use lots of test, too many to count for me to ignore.


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: oni on March 01, 2012, 11:46:49 PM
flinstones1: Please post your theory or at least PM me it lol

Arnold: I also liked dbol a lot. When I took it for cycling it was amazing and I gained 7lb in total on just 40mg a day for 6 weeks and that was without weight training or eating to gain weight lol. My quads blew up! How would you suggest taking the dbol? 6 weeks on, 6 weeks off?


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: FAST LANE on March 02, 2012, 12:09:42 AM
Nope, I get nothing past 600mg test or so. As far as responding to it I mean I guess? I developed a dimple chin since I've been using it and a more masculine jawline and shrunken balls so I guess I "respond" to synthetic testosterone ;D, but as far as muscle growth? test does shit for me. I used a shitload of testosterone the past few years...must of run at least 6 test only cycles...I ran it for like two years straight lol never below 500mg... so I can speak from experience here-  and only when I add the anabolics do I notice tissue growth piling on. Right now I'm on 900mg deca,600mg primo and the strongest and biggest I have ever been. Face is bloated really bad but my skin looks fantastic, chest and arms are up in size alot.

 I actually did some research to learn there is a reason why you will never be at your biggest on lots of testosterone vs if you were on high doses of anabolics, but I don't care to explain cause I know people will disagree with me lol. Guys are stubborn, they take high doses of test cause they feel they must, but you really only need 200mg or so to prevent the dangers of low test like diabetes and stuff. it I just know there are alot more huge guys who don't use test then there are huge guys who use lots of test, too many to count for me to ignore.

Yeah, I hear ya brotha.. test for you is like tren for me lol.. get nothing out of it  :'(


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: flinstones1 on March 02, 2012, 12:18:04 AM
flinstones1: Please post your theory or at least PM me it lol

Arnold: I also liked dbol a lot. When I took it for cycling it was amazing and I gained 7lb in total on just 40mg a day for 6 weeks and that was without weight training or eating to gain weight lol. My quads blew up! How would you suggest taking the dbol? 6 weeks on, 6 weeks off?

 it's not a theory. Testosterone, while very anabolic and a very potent one at that, also is very catobolic. Muscle tissue is broken down easier in the presence of supraphysiological doses of testosterone, although it is rebuilt much faster. So you will build muscle with tesotsterone,obviously... but not nearly at the rate if you were to use pure anabolics. Testosterone stimulates protein synthesis but also protein degradation hence a huge cancelation effect, which is why the gains of a test only cycle in most cases are much slower than if you were to use anabolic with it. .  There was a study on this I recall, where patients were given a mild dose of anavar and a low dose of test (I think like 300mg), and gained just as much muscle in 8 weeks as the other group using a large dose of testosterone. (aroud 600mg) for 20 weeks! Food for thought...

 I know that tren on the other hand is quite the opposite, it actually is more of a pure anti catabolic: actually lowers protein synthesis, but decreases protein breakdown. So test and tren it's no mystery why it works when used together. Also theories aside, the greatest physiques of all time did not use much testosterone. 


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: flinstones1 on March 02, 2012, 12:26:37 AM
btw let me say I have nothing against test, I'm on 600mg right now lol. I just use it cause I get it for free from the pharmacy so I don't want to waste it lol it's still a shitty drug and I would trade it for some good EQ or deca any day


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: randy841 on March 02, 2012, 12:34:06 AM
it's not a theory. Testosterone, while very anabolic and a very potent one at that, also is very catobolic. Muscle tissue is broken down easier in the presence of supraphysiological doses of testosterone, although it is rebuilt much faster. So you will build muscle with tesotsterone,obviously... but not nearly at the rate if you were to use pure anabolics. Testosterone stimulates protein synthesis but also protein degradation hence a huge cancelation effect, which is why the gains of a test only cycle in most cases are much slower than if you were to use anabolic with it. .  There was a study on this I recall, where patients were given a mild dose of anavar and a low dose of test (I think like 300mg), and gained just as much muscle in 8 weeks as the other group using a large dose of testosterone. (aroud 600mg) for 20 weeks! Food for thought...

 I know that tren on the other hand is quite the opposite, it actually is more of a pure anti catabolic: actually lowers protein synthesis, but decreases protein breakdown. So test and tren it's no mystery why it works when used together. Also theories aside, the greatest physiques of all time did not use much testosterone.  

A friend competed at the Toronto Pro Show in 2011 - in the heavyweights. He had the same theory on test. Only utilize/use much as is needed to function within physiological limits. Otherwise, the best route for growth is high anabolics.

Furthermore, some have also reiterated that GH15 says he was his biggest on Deca/Eq cycle.



Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: NeilGM on March 02, 2012, 12:34:36 AM
Depending on how long you wish to cycle for.. but f you intend to be on a while (not come off or cycle any time soon) and this is your first proper stack then personally I would start at a modest doseage and add in bits as you go along.

Test Eth (250mg / 1ml) - 1/2ml Mon/Wed/Fri
Bold/Deca* (300mg / 1ml) - 1ml Mon/Fri

*Personally I like Bold better, Deca makes me bloated at higher doses and supposedly you should not run it with tren.

Run this, give it 3-5 weeks for it to start kicking in due to the long ester in the Bold/Deca. Don't expect massive gains, but slow steady gains in size and strength. Get to around 10-15 weeks and look in the mirror, depending on yourbody type and how you started in the first place: If you are lean but want some more size thrown in Androl for 6-8 weeks 50-100mgs a day, take this out and replace with Tren Ace or Mast 100mg EOD for 3 months and see how you look then evaluate. If you are chunky or bloated and want to lean out and add some clean mass thrown in Tren Ace or Mast at 100mg EOD to start, run until lean (depending on initial size to start will determine length) and then evaluate.


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: flinstones1 on March 02, 2012, 12:38:01 AM
A friend competed at the Toronto Pro Show in 2011 - in the heavyweights. He had the same theory on test. Only utilize/use much as is needed to function within physiological limits. Otherwise, the best route for growth is high anabolics.

Furthermore, some have also reiterated that GH15 says he was his biggest on Deca/Eq cycle.



true- also anyone who runs test with dbol is fucking retarted. 10mg of dbol provides total androgen replacement to a male. No need to take "low dose of test" for well being or anything like that lol, dbol does everything test does and better.



Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: Arnold jr on March 02, 2012, 01:50:20 AM
flinstones1: Please post your theory or at least PM me it lol

Arnold: I also liked dbol a lot. When I took it for cycling it was amazing and I gained 7lb in total on just 40mg a day for 6 weeks and that was without weight training or eating to gain weight lol. My quads blew up! How would you suggest taking the dbol? 6 weeks on, 6 weeks off?

I did that quite a bit...6wks on, 6wks off. I'm not sure I fully understand what it is your asking though...specifically.


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: Arnold jr on March 02, 2012, 01:54:49 AM
it's not a theory. Testosterone, while very anabolic and a very potent one at that, also is very catobolic. Muscle tissue is broken down easier in the presence of supraphysiological doses of testosterone, although it is rebuilt much faster. So you will build muscle with tesotsterone,obviously... but not nearly at the rate if you were to use pure anabolics. Testosterone stimulates protein synthesis but also protein degradation hence a huge cancelation effect, which is why the gains of a test only cycle in most cases are much slower than if you were to use anabolic with it. .  There was a study on this I recall, where patients were given a mild dose of anavar and a low dose of test (I think like 300mg), and gained just as much muscle in 8 weeks as the other group using a large dose of testosterone. (aroud 600mg) for 20 weeks! Food for thought...

 I know that tren on the other hand is quite the opposite, it actually is more of a pure anti catabolic: actually lowers protein synthesis, but decreases protein breakdown. So test and tren it's no mystery why it works when used together. Also theories aside, the greatest physiques of all time did not use much testosterone. 

Two things.....

In years past, and this seems to hold true with almost every guy I've ever worked with.....testosterone doses....if the dose is above 500mg/wk but less than 1,000mg/wk there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference in-terms of total progress. Once you reach the 1,000mg/wk range, this is when things start progressing again. In simpler terms:

500mg/wk vs. 750mg/wk --- not much difference.
750mg/wk vs. 1,000mg/wk --- big difference.

Second thing....the New England Journal of Medicine has done several studies using supraphysiological doses of testosterone....their findings would contradict the ones you provided above. On that basis, I'd like to know where you found them because it would be hard to dispute the NEJM....one of the few reputable medical groups that's been fairly unbiased when it comes to hormones.


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: Marlo Stanfield on March 02, 2012, 07:34:57 AM
it's not a theory. Testosterone, while very anabolic and a very potent one at that, also is very catobolic. Muscle tissue is broken down easier in the presence of supraphysiological doses of testosterone, although it is rebuilt much faster. So you will build muscle with tesotsterone,obviously... but not nearly at the rate if you were to use pure anabolics. Testosterone stimulates protein synthesis but also protein degradation hence a huge cancelation effect, which is why the gains of a test only cycle in most cases are much slower than if you were to use anabolic with it. .  There was a study on this I recall, where patients were given a mild dose of anavar and a low dose of test (I think like 300mg), and gained just as much muscle in 8 weeks as the other group using a large dose of testosterone. (aroud 600mg) for 20 weeks! Food for thought...

I know that tren on the other hand is quite the opposite, it actually is more of a pure anti catabolic: actually lowers protein synthesis, but decreases protein breakdown. So test and tren it's no mystery why it works when used together. Also theories aside, the greatest physiques of all time did not use much testosterone. 

im not sure i can get past this sentence alone. your saying that its a fact that testosterone is catabolic? how can something be anabolic and catabolic at the same time ? ???

Im not bashing, where are you getting the bold statements from? any published study?


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: hematocritter on March 02, 2012, 08:00:21 AM
I actually did some research to learn there is a reason why you will never be at your biggest on lots of testosterone vs if you were on high doses of anabolics, but I don't care to explain cause I know people will disagree with me lol. Guys are stubborn, they take high doses of test cause they feel they must, but you really only need 200mg or so



I'm with you on this.
Anabolics are far better at adding mass than plain testosterone. I find D-bol, deca, even primo to be be better at putting muscle on me than test.
I also speak from experience, I have ran just about every AAS completely solo just so I was familiar with their individual effects.
I like the feeling of a decent dose of test, like the raging libido, but that is it.... all it does other than that is make me hairy and hold a little more water.


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: flinstones1 on March 02, 2012, 01:30:12 PM
Two things.....

In years past, and this seems to hold true with almost every guy I've ever worked with.....testosterone doses....if the dose is above 500mg/wk but less than 1,000mg/wk there doesn't seem to be a lot of difference in-terms of total progress. Once you reach the 1,000mg/wk range, this is when things start progressing again. In simpler terms:

500mg/wk vs. 750mg/wk --- not much difference.
750mg/wk vs. 1,000mg/wk --- big difference.

Second thing....the New England Journal of Medicine has done several studies using supraphysiological doses of testosterone....their findings would contradict the ones you provided above. On that basis, I'd like to know where you found them because it would be hard to dispute the NEJM....one of the few reputable medical groups that's been fairly unbiased when it comes to hormones.

No they don't. I am aware of the NEJM study where eugondal men were given supraphysiological doses of testoserone enanthate (600mg) and showed large increses in muscle mass and strength, while comparing 600mg to 300mg and 150mg I believe. What is your point? Test builds muscle no shit :D but, there was a study that showed a low dose of anavar resulted in just as much muscle mass gain in 8 weeks combined with a low dosage of testosterone, compared to mega doses of testosterone for 20 weeks. So a little test and anavar will give you the same gains in 8 weeks as a mega dose of testosterone for 20 weeks.  As well as real life experience I'm sure you will agree, how adding a little deca or EQ can do wonders to a heavy test cycle. My theory is just based on the mechanisms that testosterone works by, muscle growth is slower...efficient yes, but not optimal. When it comes to the heavy androgens like test , there is a huge cancelation effect. This is way over my head to go into where I'm typing right now and I'm too tired to explain: but in a nuthsell: It has to do with insulin.  after a certain point androgens provide their own antidote against muscle growth through lower insulin output. This can be overcome by using enough anabolics in high enough doses, although I do not know the exact mechanism for why, I just know it works. From myself as well as Buselmo,BLP,other bodybuilders I have talked to.

Also- Testosterone isn't even a true anabolic steroid as far as I'm concerned, it's just the  male's primary sex hormone.  Also let me say I enjoy reading your posts and think your very knowladgable  :) just a little biased in some areas.


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: flinstones1 on March 02, 2012, 01:40:22 PM
im not sure i can get past this sentence alone. your saying that its a fact that testosterone is catabolic? how can something be anabolic and catabolic at the same time ? ???

Im not bashing, where are you getting the bold statements from? any published study?

Oh god brother I can't remember where I got everything from, I usually read something and take bits and pieces and  keep it in a file in the back of my mind lol.

here is a study you may find interesting though to back the theory though, I'll look around for some other stuff

http://www.ergo-log.com/oxandrolonetestosterone.html




Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: flinstones1 on March 02, 2012, 01:42:46 PM
btw let me say- I know this is nothing new. Guys have known this holds true for decades ...I just find the topic interesting :)


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: Overload on March 02, 2012, 01:46:17 PM
btw let me say- I know this is nothing new. Guys have known this holds true for decades ...I just find the topic interesting :)

What is nothing new and holds true for decades?


8)


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: tbombz on March 02, 2012, 02:39:00 PM
Flin dont knock high dosed test untill you try it yourself. which you may have but from your posts in this thrrad it seems like your just relying on second hand information. 

pretty much the only thing i used for the past few years was testosterone, either cyp or enan, on average 750-1000 per week. worked well.  not magic, but ok.    bumped the doseage up to 1500mg for a coule weeks while i was using omnadrens, and i blew up real nice. wish i would have had more.

i do think it would be better to run higher doses of anabolics but test still works quite well. much better for mass than alot of roids. and its cheap.  


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: lyquid on March 02, 2012, 03:23:26 PM
Back on topic there all shit up the gh.

I used high dose test gains in weight were great but felt a lot was water. Deca dbol was a lot leaner gains looked very round not a bloxky mid section which made me look smaller. That's what i liked about no test.


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: FAST LANE on March 02, 2012, 03:35:23 PM
Will a high dose of an AI or nolva keep the water under control?


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: flinstones1 on March 02, 2012, 03:39:39 PM
Flin dont knock high dosed test untill you try it yourself. which you may have but from your posts in this thrrad it seems like your just relying on second hand information.  

pretty much the only thing i used for the past few years was testosterone, either cyp or enan, on average 750-1000 per week. worked well.  not magic, but ok.    bumped the doseage up to 1500mg for a coule weeks while i was using omnadrens, and i blew up real nice. wish i would have had more.

i do think it would be better to run higher doses of anabolics but test still works quite well. much better for mass than alot of roids. and its cheap.  

who do you think your talking to some 16 year old on his first cycle? lol. I get watson cyp straight from the american pharm and galenikas from serbia, have not been off test in close to 3 years. 400mg minimum for HRT and alot more when blasting.  I can speak from experience: It doesn't do shit for me other than hair on my back, some thickness, and water weight..very little tissue gain. But like you said: all steroids stop working at some point and there is a time when you must change compounds. So who knows...maybe my body just built up an immunity to test.  


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: Arnold jr on March 02, 2012, 04:07:40 PM
No they don't. I am aware of the NEJM study where eugondal men were given supraphysiological doses of testoserone enanthate (600mg) and showed large increses in muscle mass and strength, while comparing 600mg to 300mg and 150mg I believe. What is your point? Test builds muscle no shit :D but, there was a study that showed a low dose of anavar resulted in just as much muscle mass gain in 8 weeks combined with a low dosage of testosterone, compared to mega doses of testosterone for 20 weeks. So a little test and anavar will give you the same gains in 8 weeks as a mega dose of testosterone for 20 weeks.  As well as real life experience I'm sure you will agree, how adding a little deca or EQ can do wonders to a heavy test cycle. My theory is just based on the mechanisms that testosterone works by, muscle growth is slower...efficient yes, but not optimal. When it comes to the heavy androgens like test , there is a huge cancelation effect. This is way over my head to go into where I'm typing right now and I'm too tired to explain: but in a nuthsell: It has to do with insulin.  after a certain point androgens provide their own antidote against muscle growth through lower insulin output. This can be overcome by using enough anabolics in high enough doses, although I do not know the exact mechanism for why, I just know it works. From myself as well as Buselmo,BLP,other bodybuilders I have talked to.

Also- Testosterone isn't even a true anabolic steroid as far as I'm concerned, it's just the  male's primary sex hormone.  Also let me say I enjoy reading your posts and think your very knowladgable  :) just a little biased in some areas.

I would be shocked, more than shocked if you had two guys who were relatively equal in every way and if you gave one 1,000mg of test a wk and one a very low dose of test and even 100mg of Anavar and the Anavar guy gained more lean tissue than the high test guy...in-fact, if this were possible, I'd be willing to wager $1,000 the Anavar guy wouldn't win...make it $10,000.

I'm not saying low doses of test and high doses of other steroids cannot produce good results....just wanted to clarify. I've done that myself, but high doses of test are essential if you're going to make true gains in mass.....if it weren't, pro bodybuilders wouldn't be supplementing with 2g+ a week.

A side note, saying testosterone isn't really an anabolic steroid....this one doesn't even make sense. It is THE anabolic steroid, it's the primary anabolic steroid. For crying out loud, it carries high anabolic properties.


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: Arnold jr on March 02, 2012, 04:08:30 PM
who do you think your talking to some 16 year old on his first cycle? lol. I get watson cyp straight from the american pharm and galenikas from serbia, have not been off test in close to 3 years. 400mg minimum for HRT and alot more when blasting.  I can speak from experience: It doesn't do shit for me other than hair on my back, some thickness, and water weight..very little tissue gain. But like you said: all steroids stop working at some point and there is a time when you must change compounds. So who knows...maybe my body just built up an immunity to test.  

That's like saying your body built up an immunity to water and oxygen. I'm not being a smartass, you'll rarely find me making smartass comment....it does happen, but this isn't one of those times.


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: makaveli25 on March 02, 2012, 05:42:54 PM
Flin dont knock high dosed test untill you try it yourself. which you may have but from your posts in this thrrad it seems like your just relying on second hand information. 

pretty much the only thing i used for the past few years was testosterone, either cyp or enan, on average 750-1000 per week. worked well.  not magic, but ok.    bumped the doseage up to 1500mg for a coule weeks while i was using omnadrens, and i blew up real nice. wish i would have had more.

i do think it would be better to run higher doses of anabolics but test still works quite well. much better for mass than alot of roids. and its cheap.  

How did you handle the bloat with that much?


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: flinstones1 on March 02, 2012, 05:53:50 PM
I would be shocked, more than shocked if you had two guys who were relatively equal in every way and if you gave one 1,000mg of test a wk and one a very low dose of test and even 100mg of Anavar and the Anavar guy gained more lean tissue than the high test guy...in-fact, if this were possible, I'd be willing to wager $1,000 the Anavar guy wouldn't win...make it $10,000.

I'm not saying low doses of test and high doses of other steroids cannot produce good results....just wanted to clarify. I've done that myself, but high doses of test are essential if you're going to make true gains in mass.....if it weren't, pro bodybuilders wouldn't be supplementing with 2g+ a week.

A side note, saying testosterone isn't really an anabolic steroid....this one doesn't even make sense. It is THE anabolic steroid, it's the primary anabolic steroid. For crying out loud, it carries high anabolic properties.



Your right, the pros today are on massive amounts of testosterone. You can not look like a modern pro without using buttloads of test. But, That's part of the reason they all look like shit IMO. These guys didn't use test and were fairly muscular



(http://www.gmv.com.au/images/2011%20Bodybuilding%20pix/MASTERS%20OF%20MUSCLE%201%20FTP/MikeQuinn.jpg)
(http://forum.ilovespam.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10407&stc=1&d=1270525547)
(http://www.musclenet.com/vic.jpg)
(http://fitnessanddefense.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/arnold-schwarzenegger-big.jpg)
(http://forum.spam.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10407&stc=1&d=1270525547)


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: tbombz on March 02, 2012, 06:09:49 PM
who do you think your talking to some 16 year old on his first cycle? lol. I get watson cyp straight from the american pharm and galenikas from serbia, have not been off test in close to 3 years. 400mg minimum for HRT and alot more when blasting.  I can speak from experience: It doesn't do shit for me other than hair on my back, some thickness, and water weight..very little tissue gain. But like you said: all steroids stop working at some point and there is a time when you must change compounds. So who knows...maybe my body just built up an immunity to test.  
well not everybody responds the same to every steroid. smoofcat hates deca. buselmo loves it. fast lane is a non responder to tren. its like the only thing stav will use these days.


That's like saying your body built up an immunity to water and oxygen. I'm not being a smartass, you'll rarely find me making smartass comment....it does happen, but this isn't one of those times.
say someone runs 500mg for two years. the first month or so gains will be phenomenal. next 6 months they will be alright. after about a year the gains will be basically non existent.  youll be running 500mg to basically maintain what you gained originally.   bump the doseage up to a gram.. same thing happens. great gains at first. good gains for a while after. then your just maintaining.  can make a very small amount of progress, but nothing significant. in this sense, yes one does build up a tolerance or immunity.


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: FAST LANE on March 02, 2012, 08:47:24 PM
well not everybody responds the same to every steroid. smoofcat hates deca. buselmo loves it. fast lane is a non responder to tren. its like the only thing stav will use these days.

 say someone runs 500mg for two years. the first month or so gains will be phenomenal. next 6 months they will be alright. after about a year the gains will be basically non existent.  youll be running 500mg to basically maintain what you gained originally.   bump the doseage up to a gram.. same thing happens. great gains at first. good gains for a while after. then your just maintaining.  can make a very small amount of progress, but nothing significant. in this sense, yes one does build up a tolerance or immunity.
Good post man


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: THECHEMIST on March 02, 2012, 09:10:18 PM
i would love to keep taking dbol but my nips get so damn swollen and sensitive while on it wether on anti-estrogens or not. on drol im g2g


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: Arnold jr on March 03, 2012, 01:57:06 AM


Your right, the pros today are on massive amounts of testosterone. You can not look like a modern pro without using buttloads of test. But, That's part of the reason they all look like shit IMO. These guys didn't use test and were fairly muscular



(http://www.gmv.com.au/images/2011%20Bodybuilding%20pix/MASTERS%20OF%20MUSCLE%201%20FTP/MikeQuinn.jpg)
(http://forum.ilovespam.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10407&stc=1&d=1270525547)
(http://www.musclenet.com/vic.jpg)
(http://fitnessanddefense.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/arnold-schwarzenegger-big.jpg)
(http://forum.ilovespam.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10407&stc=1&d=1270525547)

Hard to say "looks like shit" when you have the likes of Ronnie Coleman the last decade....and he took "butt loads" of test. Currently, Denis Wolf, Evan Centopani.....how could this be deemed "looks like shit?"

As for the pics you posted, without question, I am 100% positive Arnold used testosterone, and all the internet rumors that he didn't or barely used it are just that....rumors. People want to believe he didn't use testosterone....I'm not saying he used 2-3g a wk, but he used it and more than a little...yes, he also had periods of no test. These are his words, not mine.


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: Arnold jr on March 03, 2012, 02:04:23 AM
well not everybody responds the same to every steroid. smoofcat hates deca. buselmo loves it. fast lane is a non responder to tren. its like the only thing stav will use these days.

 say someone runs 500mg for two years. the first month or so gains will be phenomenal. next 6 months they will be alright. after about a year the gains will be basically non existent.  youll be running 500mg to basically maintain what you gained originally.   bump the doseage up to a gram.. same thing happens. great gains at first. good gains for a while after. then your just maintaining.  can make a very small amount of progress, but nothing significant. in this sense, yes one does build up a tolerance or immunity.

I understand what you're saying, and there is definitely some truth to it...that can't be denied, but I don't think it's quite that black and white.

If you're natural, relying on your natural testosterone then you're only going to get so far....if you increase your levels you'll get further, but just as when you're natural there's a cutoff point; however......with higher levels of test, we can make changes with other hormones and will get more out of that test....eventually this will taper off too and we'll have to make more changes or increase the testosterone dosage...or both depending on the person and their goals.

Further, if nothing changes, if we supplement with say 500mg/wk and only 500mg/wk, while we might not be growing anymore if we haven't made any other changes, that testosterone is still helping to support the mass that's in place. This is probably a bit of an over simplification, but at the moment it's the best example I can think of.....you drink water to hydrate, after enough water you are fully hydrated....of course, you'll have to continue to drink more water to remain this way...your hydration isn't improving but the level must be maintained in-order to support what fully hydrated brings. Same with testosterone. Again, I know this isn't the best example, it's simply the first thing that popped in my mind.


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: Arnold jr on March 03, 2012, 02:06:14 AM
i would love to keep taking dbol but my nips get so damn swollen and sensitive while on it wether on anti-estrogens or not. on drol im g2g

Happens to the best of them, and it can vary for everyone. 50mg of Dbol really want to anything to me Gyno wise...signs, symptoms nothing....I've even gotten away with 100mg/ed before and they got a little sore but it wasn't anything bad. Now, 50mg of Anadrol, and that spells guaranteed Gyno symptoms for me every single time.


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: local hero on March 03, 2012, 02:14:12 AM


Your right, the pros today are on massive amounts of testosterone. You can not look like a modern pro without using buttloads of test. But, That's part of the reason they all look like shit IMO. These guys didn't use test and were fairly muscular



(http://www.gmv.com.au/images/2011%20Bodybuilding%20pix/MASTERS%20OF%20MUSCLE%201%20FTP/MikeQuinn.jpg)
(http://forum.ilovespam.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10407&stc=1&d=1270525547)
(http://www.musclenet.com/vic.jpg)
(http://fitnessanddefense.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/arnold-schwarzenegger-big.jpg)
(http://forum.ilovespam.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10407&stc=1&d=1270525547)

what you on about, they all mega dosed everything, including test.......... the staple pro regime has long been 1 amp of sus/enth/cyp ed, along with what ever else


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: oni on March 03, 2012, 04:21:01 AM
Will a high dose of an AI or nolva keep the water under control?

Don't run an AI on cycle, you need estrogen to make the most out of your gains while on cycle
If you're having estrogen problems you're most likely doing it wrong and need to make adjustments so that it doesn't happen, not take more drugs


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: Smallz on March 04, 2012, 08:20:08 AM
Ok, say someone is running 800mg test, 50mg tren a eod and has plenty of eq on hand drops the test to 250mg a week, and ups the tren and eq. What would the benefits of dropping the test and upping everything else be? And about 5iu of gh ed. Will be upping it to 10iu In a few weeks.


Title: Re: Cycling Testosterone
Post by: tbombz on March 04, 2012, 02:39:17 PM
I understand what you're saying, and there is definitely some truth to it...that can't be denied, but I don't think it's quite that black and white.

If you're natural, relying on your natural testosterone then you're only going to get so far....if you increase your levels you'll get further, but just as when you're natural there's a cutoff point; however......with higher levels of test, we can make changes with other hormones and will get more out of that test....eventually this will taper off too and we'll have to make more changes or increase the testosterone dosage...or both depending on the person and their goals.

Further, if nothing changes, if we supplement with say 500mg/wk and only 500mg/wk, while we might not be growing anymore if we haven't made any other changes, that testosterone is still helping to support the mass that's in place. This is probably a bit of an over simplification, but at the moment it's the best example I can think of.....you drink water to hydrate, after enough water you are fully hydrated....of course, you'll have to continue to drink more water to remain this way...your hydration isn't improving but the level must be maintained in-order to support what fully hydrated brings. Same with testosterone. Again, I know this isn't the best example, it's simply the first thing that popped in my mind.
i hear you, i was just clarifying your point for the other people reading the thread, cuz it oculd have been misinterpreted.