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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Industry Business Technology Board => Topic started by: 24KT on March 30, 2012, 02:10:00 PM



Title: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on March 30, 2012, 02:10:00 PM
The BRIC nations, (Brazil, Russia, India & China) along with Japan & Saudi Arabia have delivered a death blow to the US Dollar.

(http://www.midlands.coop/assets/funeral/products/coffin-merrion-zoom.jpg)

BRIC Summit wraps up with a consensus on bilateral trade agreements.

Bottom line:  NO US Dollars!!!

http://further-left-forum.blogspot.ca/2012/03/no-dollar-trade.html (http://further-left-forum.blogspot.ca/2012/03/no-dollar-trade.html)

Get ready for hyperinflation, ...coming to an American town near you... SOON!

I'm just glad my money is banked in GOLD! As the US Dollar devalues to zero, my purchasing power is retained.



Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Shockwave on March 30, 2012, 03:26:12 PM
Is this on any other news source? Not a flame, but this is serious bidness, and If I can see this corroborated on a legitimate news source, Im gonna be worried.
But honestly, that site leaves me with doubts.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on March 30, 2012, 03:54:12 PM
Is this on any other news source? Not a flame, but this is serious bidness, and If I can see this corroborated on a legitimate news source, Im gonna be worried.
But honestly, that site leaves me with doubts.

I understand. I've been getting sources from all over, and putting pieces together. Occassionally when I see something that puts all the pieces together co-herently, I may pop in to post here, ...but given this forum's penchant for moderator encouraged flaming & character assasination, informing people here is NOT a priority for me. There are too many people to protect who aren't slamming me every step of the way.

All I can suggest in the time being is to try to corroborate it elsewhere. Unfortunately, I have too much on the go right now to be taking the time to support statements.

I believe Lindsey Williams has been discussing the Saudi built Chinese refinery and the fact that the US Dollar will not be used to settle debts. We know India is paying for a million barrels a day of Iranian oil with GOLD. Chinese & Russian bilateral trade dumping US dollars is old news. I posted that 2 yrs ago, but Hugo saw fit to delete it,  Now with China & Japan (the #2 & #3 largest economies in the world inking a trade agreement between themselves which specifies the US Dollar will NOT be used for settlements, ...it will be a death spiral. I believe by the end of the year, the greenback will be dead in the water. I hope I'm wrong, ...but I don't think so.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 30, 2012, 06:03:29 PM
Is this on any other news source? Not a flame, but this is serious bidness, and If I can see this corroborated on a legitimate news source, Im gonna be worried.
But honestly, that site leaves me with doubts.
Her last line should be a givaway. "I'm just glad my money is banked in GOLD! As the US Dollar devalues to zero, my purchasing power is retained."

Then she wants you to click the link in her sig line lol...


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 30, 2012, 06:07:34 PM
Her last line should be a givaway. "I'm just glad my money is banked in GOLD! As the US Dollar devalues to zero, my purchasing power is retained."

Then she wants you to click the link in her sig line lol...

The dollar is destined to fail regardless of jags pimping here.   We are on the highway to hell w bernake Obama geithner etc


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 30, 2012, 06:13:54 PM
The dollar is destined to fail regardless of jags pimping here.   We are on the highway to hell w bernake Obama geithner etc
I didn't dispute that.  This doesn't mean it's ok to pimp her product here.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 30, 2012, 06:16:17 PM
I didn't dispute that.  This doesn't mean it's ok to pimp her product here.

Agreed.   Why would people buy gold and leave it w someone like her.   I mean come on now! 


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on March 30, 2012, 07:30:31 PM
Agreed.   Why would people buy gold and leave it w someone like her.   I mean come on now! 

The question should be "Why would people buy gold at almost $1700/ounce?!?!?"


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 30, 2012, 07:33:40 PM
The question should be "Why would people buy gold at almost $1700/ounce?!?!?"

Because they see what is in store for the future w the monetary policies we pursue.


I buy more silver than gold TBH.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on March 30, 2012, 08:31:41 PM
Because they see what is in store for the future w the monetary policies we pursue.

If that were really the case, there are a lot better vehicles to use...

I buy more silver than gold TBH.

At ~$32/ounce? Smart man, smart man.  ::)


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on March 30, 2012, 10:12:26 PM
I didn't dispute that.  This doesn't mean it's ok to pimp her product here.

I have not once mentioned Karatbars in this thread or in the others I've recently started. I've only spoken of GOLD in it's generic form.

I've been away so long, there are many here that have no knowledge whatsoever that I'm associated with Karatbars. You're the one informing them.
I don't care where you get your GOLD, just get it. Of course I would prefer people use the same supplier I use, but it's up to them to determine what the best decision for them. I happen to believe my source has the most options for the most people. But each individual has to determine their own situation and what works best for them.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on March 30, 2012, 10:19:32 PM
Agreed.   Why would people buy gold and leave it w someone like her.   I mean come on now! 

First of all, you really need to get your facts straight.

People are not leaving their GOLD with me. I wouldn't want that kind of responsibility.
People have the option to take physical delivery, OR keep it in FREE storage outside of the country (and outside of their government's reach) if THEY CHOOSE.

Understand, Obama has just signed into law NDAA and declared martial law within the USA. That gives him the right to confiscate whatever he chooses. There has been precedent set in 1933 when US citizens had their gold confiscated under penalty of imprisonment. Do YOU trust your government not to do it again? There are many who do not, as such, they prefer their money stored in a medium that not only retains it's value & purchasing power, but also one outside of the reach of a government they do not trust.

Those who do not trust a facility used by 30% of World Gold Council Members, can always take physical possession.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on March 30, 2012, 10:32:24 PM
The question should be "Why would people buy gold at almost $1700/ounce?!?!?"

Because in the long run GOLD retains it's value & purchasing power.

The price of GOLD has long been suppressed & manipulated downwards in order to conceal the rapid demise of fiat federal reserve note. the manipulators are losing control, and soon GOLD will revaluate to reflect it's true value. Gold may seem expensive at $1700, however, understand that is $1700 of devalued dollars... worth about the same amount as $20 circa 1913. Gold at $1700 oz is a much better acquisition than GOLD at $2,000/oz, or even $3,000/oz.

We have the ability to essentially take zero value dollars and exchange it for GOLD.

The smart money is doing just that, before people & businesses stop accepting dollars for GOLD... or anything else.
Governments and people arond the world are already phasing out the US Dollar, it won't be long before people in the USA start doing the same.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: howardroark on March 30, 2012, 10:37:57 PM
The question should be "Why would people buy gold at almost $1700/ounce?!?!?"

Hmmm let's see...
1) Because the Federal Reserve has expanded the money supply by a ridiculous amount and the dominant view among economists is that a recession can only be combated through more inflation.
2) Because the President's budget plan never balances the budget. Red ink for as far as the eye can see.
3) Because the opposing party's "star" budget plan doesn't balance the budget for DECADES to come.
4) Because the United States suffers from having two unfunded but politically popular entitlement programs which are destined to bankrupt the federal government.
5) Because government spending has been rapidly increasing, no matter who is in power.
6) Because several state governments could be possibly pushing to the point of bankruptcy, and then might need bailouts.
7) Because the financial system is even weaker now than it was before the crisis, and thus might receive massive bailouts to the tunes of trillions of dollars.
8) Because the federal government is already on the hook for trillions of dollars in the case of another panic.
9) Because the federal government is facing political gridlock where the only thing the two parties can agree on is to increase spending year after year.
10) Because the governments in the United States at all levels have been taken over by special interest groups seeking to enrich themselves on the back of the taxpayer.
11) Because the political sentiment to change all of this before things start getting sour simply does not exist at this point in history.

Want me to keep listing?


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 30, 2012, 10:41:02 PM
I have not once mentioned Karatbars in this thread or in the others I've recently started. I've only spoken of GOLD in it's generic form.

I've been away so long, there are many here that have no knowledge whatsoever that I'm associated with Karatbars. You're the one informing them.
I don't care where you get your GOLD, just get it. Of course I would prefer people use the same supplier I use, but it's up to them to determine what the best decision for them. I happen to believe my source has the most options for the most people. But each individual has to determine their own situation and what works best for them.
No I didn't inform them. ::)  You're using this reply to do so. ::)  It's the same game you got away with before... Talk about gas prices all the time knowing your sigline goes to selling gaspills.  Relax, I'm not deleting your scam even though I should.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on March 30, 2012, 11:05:56 PM
Hmmm let's see...
1) Because the Federal Reserve has expanded the money supply by a ridiculous amount and the dominant view among economists is that a recession can only be combated through more inflation.
2) Because the President's budget plan never balances the budget. Red ink for as far as the eye can see.
3) Because the opposing party's "star" budget plan doesn't balance the budget for DECADES to come.
4) Because the United States suffers from having two unfunded but politically popular entitlement programs which are destined to bankrupt the federal government.
5) Because government spending has been rapidly increasing, no matter who is in power.
6) Because several state governments could be possibly pushing to the point of bankruptcy, and then might need bailouts.
7) Because the financial system is even weaker now than it was before the crisis, and thus might receive massive bailouts to the tunes of trillions of dollars.
8) Because the federal government is already on the hook for trillions of dollars in the case of another panic.
9) Because the federal government is facing political gridlock where the only thing the two parties can agree on is to increase spending year after year.
10) Because the governments in the United States at all levels have been taken over by special interest groups seeking to enrich themselves on the back of the taxpayer.
11) Because the political sentiment to change all of this before things start getting sour simply does not exist at this point in history.

Want me to keep listing?

I doubt that at $1700/ounce this sort of insurance makes sense; to each their own though. But even if I were to grant you everything on that list, it's unclear how owning gold would help you in the situations that you cite. Sure gold has traditionally been a "stable" asset against inflation and there's practically no evidence that inflation is a danger right now. And besides, you'd still have another small problem: what protects you from an effective "confiscation" of the gold, not unlike the one that happened under Executive Order 6102?


Because in the long run GOLD retains it's value & purchasing power.

The price of GOLD has long been suppressed & manipulated downwards in order to conceal the rapid demise of fiat federal reserve note. the manipulators are losing control, and soon GOLD will revaluate to reflect it's true value. Gold may seem expensive at $1700, however, understand that is $1700 of devalued dollars... worth about the same amount as $20 circa 1913. Gold at $1700 oz is a much better acquisition than GOLD at $2,000/oz, or even $3,000/oz.

A $1.00 in 1973 had the same purchasing power as $22.57 in 2012; let's say $23. So, an ounce of gold in 1913 cost 23 * 20 = 460 2012 dollars per ounce.

Besides, if the U.S. Government wanted to, it could make the value of gold plummet overnight. The average gold trading volume per day was 18 million ounces in late 2008 and the U.S. has approximately 287 million ounces of gold. Selling even a tenth of it's gold would massively move the market downwards.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 31, 2012, 03:10:44 AM
Gold and silver have been treasured assets for how long? 


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 31, 2012, 03:39:39 AM
Gold and silver have been treasured assets for how long?  
If you're buying gold and silver expecting a total collapse and total chaos, you would be better to spend that money on salt, flower, other dry goods, medical supplies etc.  If the shit really hits the fan, gold and silver will be of little trading value.  If you expect to live out of this dark age then yea it wouldn't hurt to have some.

The only reason I mention this is because you have posted in the past with the idea that we could be headed toward that kind of epic shit.  If we have a total meltdown, end of America kind of shit, precious metal will be mostly worthless; enameled copper wire would be worth more than gold due to simple local electrical applications even dumbshits can firgure out...  Nobody will want gold or silver if the world falls apart.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 31, 2012, 03:41:22 AM
If you're buying gold and silver expecting a total collapse and total chaos, you would be better to spend that money on salt, flower, other dry goods, medical supplies etc.  If the shit really hits the fan, gold and silver will be of little trading value.  If you expect to live out of this dark age then yea it wouldn't hurt to have some.

The only reason I mention this is because you have posted in the past with the idea that we could be headed toward that kind of epic shit.  If we have a total meltdown, end of America kind of shit, metal will be mostly worthless; enameled copper wire would be worth more than gold due to simple local electrical applications even dumbshits can firgure out...  Nobody will want gold or silver if the world falls apart.


I have a lot of other stuff.   


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 31, 2012, 03:48:26 AM

I have a lot of other stuff.   
how much salt do you have?


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 31, 2012, 03:52:38 AM
how much salt do you have?

None.   Have a lot of 25 year rated freeze dried food.  Water, guns, ammo, Etc.   


And to the poster above who said we have o inflation threat now?    LMFAO.    Fucking delusional. 


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Hugo Chavez on March 31, 2012, 04:09:10 AM
None.   Have a lot of 25 year rated freeze dried food.  Water, guns, ammo, Etc.  


And to the poster above who said we have o inflation threat now?    LMFAO.    Fucking delusional.  
Right, just to let you know, if a total end of shit as we know it, type of thing happens, salt would quickly become more valuable than gold.  As a survivalist you should probably put that on the list.  It's the oldest and easiest preservative and it will be in high demand with anyone who survives; those who survive will be doing a lot of canning and other methods of perserving all of which will require salt.  You have gold and silver for its value right?  With what you think might happen, those metals are not worth much in that case.  Like I said, enameled copper wire would be worth more than pure gold.  copper wire would be worth a lot to a small group wanting to rebuild or build a new generator but chunks of gold, not so much.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 31, 2012, 04:14:36 AM
Right, just to let you know, if a total end of shit as we know it, type of thing happens, salt would quickly become more valuable than gold.  As a survivalist you should probably put that on the list.  It's the oldest and easiest preservative and it will be in high demand with anyone who survives; those who survive will be doing a lot of canning and other methods of perserving all of which will require salt.  You have gold and silver for its value right?  With what you think might happen, those metals are not worth much in that case.  Like I said, enameled copper wire would be worth more than pure gold.  That would be worth a lot to a small group wanting to rebuild or build a new generator but chunks of gold, not so much.

I have some copper too. Getting more.  


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: tonymctones on March 31, 2012, 05:39:21 AM
agree with huggy, jagson is pimping the end of the world to hock gold even though she has little knowledge of finance or markets other than what her sales manager tells her.

If that shit happens gold is going to be the least of your worries, at least for some time anyway.

Ill put my money in guns and ammo, then come take your shit that youve invested in maybe by that time the gold will be worth something.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Skip8282 on March 31, 2012, 06:53:01 AM
Understand, Obama has just signed into law NDAA and declared martial law within the USA. That gives him the right to confiscate whatever he chooses. There has been precedent set in 1933 when US citizens had their gold confiscated under penalty of imprisonment.




No, it doesn't.

And he's signed NDAA a couple of times now, tool.  It's a recurring spending act.  ::)


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Shockwave on March 31, 2012, 06:57:42 AM


No, it doesn't.

And he's signed NDAA a couple of times now, tool.  It's a recurring spending act.  ::)
Yeah, but this NDAA had the "indefinate detainment" part, which the others lacked. (Not talking about Jag, just about how this one is different than all the others.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Skip8282 on March 31, 2012, 07:17:37 AM
Yeah, but this NDAA had the "indefinate detainment" part, which the others lacked. (Not talking about Jag, just about how this one is different than all the others.


Uh...no.  AUMF is the indefinite detention and they tried to get an upholder in NDAA.  The final passed bill has a specific section that indefinite detention doesn't apply to U.S. citizens.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Shockwave on March 31, 2012, 07:29:54 AM

Uh...no.  AUMF is the indefinite detention and they tried to get an upholder in NDAA.  The final passed bill has a specific section that indefinite detention doesn't apply to U.S. citizens.
I remember they put that in, but I thought there was a loophole that if they define you as a terrorist even if youre a US citizen they can grab you?


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on March 31, 2012, 10:15:56 AM
Have a lot of 25 year rated freeze dried food.  Water, guns, ammo, Etc.

Egads... do you really worry that much about a total breakdown of the social order and a return to the primitive? Allow me to answer you by quoting someone that you, presumably, respect: you!

Fucking delusional.

And besides, you still haven't answered... If you really believe what you claim to believe, then how will the 3 ounces of gold and 4 ounces of silver you own help you when the Government (either by law or by Executive Order) makes it illegal to possess gold and silver and demands that you surrender it, as they did in the past? Hmm?

And even if that doesn't happen how, exactly, are your precious metals protected from a effort by the Government to manipulate the spot price of gold by simply offering for sale a percentage of its gold reserves, thus flooding the market and far exceeding demand, inevitably causing the price (of both gold and silver) to plummet?


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 31, 2012, 10:31:38 AM
 :). People have been collecting gold and silver for thousands of years why?    Of course the keynsian utopians know best and are smarter than thousands of years of combined experiences.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: howardroark on March 31, 2012, 10:32:57 AM
I doubt that at $1700/ounce this sort of insurance makes sense; to each their own though. But even if I were to grant you everything on that list, it's unclear how owning gold would help you in the situations that you cite. Sure gold has traditionally been a "stable" asset against inflation and there's practically no evidence that inflation is a danger right now.

If you were to "grant" me everything on the list - something you must do if you are to face reality simply because everything on that list is unavoidable FACT and 100% true - then that's all the evidence you need for inflation being a danger right now.

Just looking at the fiscal and monetary pictures - a large run-up of national debt, no real plan to balance the budget for the coming decades, low interest rates which thus far have kept deficits from exploding, and an explosion in the money supply - high inflation is almost unavoidable.

Quote
And besides, you'd still have another small problem: what protects you from an effective "confiscation" of the gold, not unlike the one that happened under Executive Order 6102?

Nothing does. But at that point, why invest in anything? As we've seen during the financial crisis, the federal government has no problem stealing people's investments for politically favored ends (see: GM/Chrysler bailout & bankruptcy).

Quote
A $1.00 in 1973 had the same purchasing power as $22.57 in 2012; let's say $23. So, an ounce of gold in 1913 cost 23 * 20 = 460 2012 dollars per ounce.

You're using numbers from 1973 to compare an ounce of gold from 1913 to an ounce in 2012? Doesn't work that way buddy. Besides, historical prices are not an indicator of what the price of a particular good should be in the present.

Quote
Besides, if the U.S. Government wanted to, it could make the value of gold plummet overnight. The average gold trading volume per day was 18 million ounces in late 2008 and the U.S. has approximately 287 million ounces of gold. Selling even a tenth of it's gold would massively move the market downwards.

If the federal government gets to the point where it needs to start selling off its gold, then prices will be much, much higher than they are now and inflation will be much, much greater than it is now.

Besides, the amount of gold that the federal government does have is very much in doubt. The Fed, for example, owns no gold of its own but only "gold certificates" (skip to 1:45):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu32deAm_n8


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: howardroark on March 31, 2012, 10:35:51 AM
If that shit happens gold is going to be the least of your worries, at least for some time anyway.

Actually, I recently joined a network of preppers who have a plan to use gold and silver as alternative currencies in the event of some kind of economic crisis. They also have plenty of rice, beans, canned foods, guns, and ammo stocked away of course. There's no reason not to take an "all of the above" approach just in case.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 31, 2012, 10:38:08 AM
 :).  Cut off food stamps and welfare and this nation will have riots nationwide like you can't believe.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: tonymctones on March 31, 2012, 11:11:13 AM
Actually, I recently joined a network of preppers who have a plan to use gold and silver as alternative currencies in the event of some kind of economic crisis. They also have plenty of rice, beans, canned foods, guns, and ammo stocked away of course. There's no reason not to take an "all of the above" approach just in case.
something is only a currency if its accepted b/c of the expectation that it has value.

Guns and ammo will be much more valuable in a situation like that then gold and silver even if for trading purposes.

But I agree no reason to not stock up on everything a little


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on March 31, 2012, 11:28:57 AM
If you were to "grant" me everything on the list - something you must do if you are to face reality simply because everything on that list is unavoidable FACT and 100% true - then that's all the evidence you need for inflation being a danger right now.

Is inflation a danger in general? Of course - and especially in the long run - as it is with every economy in the world. But right now, given the economic environment in which we're in, inflation is a small danger. If it were not for the Fed's inability to lower interest rates any more, nobody would really be concerned about it.


Just looking at the fiscal and monetary pictures - a large run-up of national debt, no real plan to balance the budget for the coming decades, low interest rates which thus far have kept deficits from exploding, and an explosion in the money supply - high inflation is almost unavoidable.

You are buying gold at $1,700/ounce today to protect against high inflation in the coming decades? I'm pretty sure that if you wait out a couple of years, you'll be able to get gold at better (i.e. lower) prices, but hey... if Glenn Beck and G. Gordon Liddy told you that they buy gold and you need to as well, who am I to argue?


You're using numbers from 1973 to compare an ounce of gold from 1913 to an ounce in 2012? Doesn't work that way buddy. Besides, historical prices are not an indicator of what the price of a particular good should be in the present.

It was a typo - all numbers were from 1913.


If the federal government gets to the point where it needs to start selling off its gold, then prices will be much, much higher than they are now and inflation will be much, much greater than it is now.

I didn't say "needs." If the Federal Government wanted to manipulate the gold market and cause prices to plummet, they could do so trivially.


Besides, the amount of gold that the federal government does have is very much in doubt. The Fed, for example, owns no gold of its own but only "gold certificates" (skip to 1:45): (snip youtube link)

Right, the Federal Reserve doesn't own gold. And the news is? Nobody ever said the Federal Reserve owns gold. The U.S. Government does, however, own gold -- over 8 thousand tonnes of it, as a matter of fact.


Gold is great and if someone has a lot of money saved, investing some in gold makes good financial sense as a counterbalance. But the notion that gold is the end-all, be-all financial product, and that in the post-apocalyptic world of Mad Max you imagine is right around the corner would ensure your survival is, to put it bluntly, nonsense. In such an environment items like food, water, medicines, gas, seeds, livestock, guns and ammunition, tools and equipment would be a whole lot more valuable than gold anyways.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on April 01, 2012, 07:39:10 PM
No I didn't inform them. ::)  You're using this reply to do so. ::)  It's the same game you got away with before... Talk about gas prices all the time knowing your sigline goes to selling gaspills.  Relax, I'm not deleting your scam even though I should.


Yes, I used to talk constantly about gas prices, and what was going to take place, and YES, my sig line offered a solution for those willing to explore a solution to the problem. That was back in 2006, ...and you have the audacity to tell me 5 yrs later that I was full of it? How much more proof do you needof both my sincerity as well as accuracy? Do you need to be sodomized by a gas pump?

You call it a scam, ...I call it living a life of integrity. I do what I do because I believe in it,
Unlike those who are forced to go to work every day because they HAVE to, even though they HATE their jobs,
I have the luxury of CHOOSING how I spend my time, and generate income, as well as acquire GOLD.

And yes, I talk about GOLD, and  yes my sig line does lead to more info, ,,,lucky for the readers of this forum, I'm willing to ignore the trolls and the tin-pot dictators, and share with them a solution to the very problems that beset them.

There are those who can choose to listen to the trolls, detractors, liars, character assassins both in the MSM and on these boards, ...and there are those who are smart enough to see a no-brainer and protect themselves and their families with the best solution going for the middle class, ...especially at a time when the middle class is being targeted & systematically wiped out.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on April 01, 2012, 07:52:04 PM
I doubt that at $1700/ounce this sort of insurance makes sense; to each their own though. But even if I were to grant you everything on that list, it's unclear how owning gold would help you in the situations that you cite. Sure gold has traditionally been a "stable" asset against inflation and there's practically no evidence that inflation is a danger right now. And besides, you'd still have another small problem: what protects you from an effective "confiscation" of the gold, not unlike the one that happened under Executive Order 6102?


A $1.00 in 1973 had the same purchasing power as $22.57 in 2012; let's say $23. So, an ounce of gold in 1913 cost 23 * 20 = 460 2012 dollars per ounce.

Besides, if the U.S. Government wanted to, it could make the value of gold plummet overnight. The average gold trading volume per day was 18 million ounces in late 2008 and the U.S. has approximately 287 million ounces of gold. Selling even a tenth of it's gold would massively move the market downwards.


I'm not concerned about paper ETF's. My concern is physical. When ETF's crash, and people's money is stolen right out from underneath them like Gerald Celente's by MF Global, the physical market will be free to reach it's true price.

They've been suppressing the price of gold for years. Their manipulations used to last for months, ...now they barely last for days sometimes not even hours. The interesting part in all of this though is that whenever they smash the price of gold down, ...who do you think buys it up... CENTRAL BANKS! For the first time in years, central banks are actually net buyers of gold. they know what time it is. As far as I'm concerned, if the US treasury is shorting US Federal Reserve notes, I might as well be too. So far, I have not been dissappointed.

As far as I'm concerned, they can move the market downward. To me, it's simply a buying opportunity I will take full advantage of.

There is free vaulting in non-seizure locations for those concerned with government confiscation and/or insurance issues.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on April 01, 2012, 09:13:01 PM
Yeah, but this NDAA had the "indefinate detainment" part, which the others lacked. (Not talking about Jag, just about how this one is different than all the others.

EXACTLY Shockwave! Clinton, & Bush, both signed similar bills into law, ...but Obama's goes ALOT further.  A WHOLE LOT FURTHER!


Uh...no.  AUMF is the indefinite detention and they tried to get an upholder in NDAA.  The final passed bill has a specific section that indefinite detention doesn't apply to U.S. citizens.


An injustice anywhere, is injustice everywhere. the very traps, snares, and pitfalls that Americans have cheered the construction of, is now being used on Americans themselves. People cheered the idea that a law was being put into place whereby non-US citizens could be arrested, detained indefinately, held for years without trial, essentially disappeared. Well if they thought it was just then, what's wrong with the concept now?


I remember they put that in, but I thought there was a loophole that if they define you as a terrorist even if youre a US citizen they can grab you?

They can do more than grab you Shockwave, ...they can essentially MURDER you, based on suspicion alone.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on April 01, 2012, 09:45:23 PM
The BRIC nations, (Brazil, Russia, India & China) along with Japan & Saudi Arabia have delivered a death blow to the US Dollar.

(http://www.midlands.coop/assets/funeral/products/coffin-merrion-zoom.jpg)

BRIC Summit wraps up with a consensus on bilateral trade agreements.

Bottom line:  NO US Dollars!!!

http://further-left-forum.blogspot.ca/2012/03/no-dollar-trade.html (http://further-left-forum.blogspot.ca/2012/03/no-dollar-trade.html)

Get ready for hyperinflation, ...coming to an American town near you... SOON!

I'm just glad my money is banked in GOLD! As the US Dollar devalues to zero, my purchasing power is retained.


Is this on any other news source? Not a flame, but this is serious bidness, and If I can see this corroborated on a legitimate news source, Im gonna be worried.
But honestly, that site leaves me with doubts.



Bank of Korea has cut it's dollar reserves

South Korea, Asia's fourth-largest economy, pared the share of dollars in its foreign-exchange reserves to the lowest level since the global financial crisis erupted in 2007.

Dollar holdings dropped to 60.5 percent of foreign- exchange reserves at the end of last year from 63.7 percent in 2010, the central bank said in its annual report for 2011 released today.

The drop underscores a shift among reserve managers to diversify assets, with China’s yuan and Australia’s dollar among the beneficiaries. South Korea’s government earlier this year announced plans to invest in Chinese equities as well as bonds as the yuan’s international role increases.

“The move to diversify reserves away from U.S. dollars and the euro accelerated last year, largely on weaker fiscal fundamentals and subdued economic conditions in developed markets,” Wai Ho Leong, a senior regional economist at Barclays Capital in Singapore, said in an e-mail. “At the same time, it marked a move into gold, and bonds of stable emerging-market economies, particularly those with better longer-term prospects and currency appreciation potential.”

The central bank boosted the proportion of equity investments to 5.4 percent last year from 3.8 percent, it said. Holdings of foreign government bonds rose to 36.8 percent from 35.8 percent in 2010, the BOK said.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-30/bok-s-dollar-holdings-fell-to-60-5-of-fx-assets-in-2011.html (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-03-30/bok-s-dollar-holdings-fell-to-60-5-of-fx-assets-in-2011.html)



And We're starting to see more commentaries on the recent summit.


The SWIFT Settlement System
 
In our previous article we looked at whether the U.S. Dollar was headed for a major fall or not. We demonstrated how the dominance of the U.S. dollar was almost entirely dependent on the grip it had over oil producers and this allowed the oil price to be designmnated in the U.S. dollar. The U.S. has gone to war in Kuwait and Iraq over this issue under the guise of destroying “weapons of Mass Destruction” as it appears on the verge of doing in Iran. It is no coincidence that Iran has long since ceased using the dollar to price its oil. It has also eliminated the U.S. dollar from its reserves. But of greater importance to the emerging world has been the use of the Belgian-based SWIFT system of international settlements. Not only has the move stopped the sale of Iranian oil, but it has also interfered with an important source of oil to the emerging world.
 
Right now there are ongoing discussions between the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa) countries over ther use of the SWIFT system of international settlements as a ‘weapon’ against Iran. The full extent of the impact of this appears to have been ignored. With China and India as two of Iran’s clients, they found that the U.S. could hurt them considerably with this action. If they can hurt them in this way, then they can hurt them the same way on other issues. So the question that the BRIC nations are now asking is, “Must we be subject to the financial will of the U.S.?”
 
The question has long-term implications that could affect these nation’s freedom of financial activity. The question demands to see just how powerful the U.S. really is. It is very clear to these emerging nations that if they are to keep on growing, unfettered by the U.S. will, they must set up a system that is not vulnerable to U.S. influence and to reduce the influence of the dollar itself.
 
What is being realized slowly is that the actions that come out of this conference may well mark a watershed in the shift of power from West to East and the significant reduction in the power of the U.S. as the globe’s main financial influence. Consequently, these nation’s will have to lower the influence of the U.S. dollar on their affairs if they are to achieve real financial independence. This has to be a future and extremely negative influence on the international value of the U.S. dollar. 
http://www.24hgold.com/english/news-gold-silver-the-decline-and-fall-of-the-usd.aspx?article=3860352942G10020 (http://www.24hgold.com/english/news-gold-silver-the-decline-and-fall-of-the-usd.aspx?article=3860352942G10020)




Brave New Bank? BRICS moot dropping dollar, IMF

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vg9qvYwQHg


Bye-bye Dollar: BRICS doesn't trust the buck

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REqrkeonbWc

Peter Schiff on BRICS and the demise of the dollar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IpwyPlZUB8


And here we see the US Governments go to answer for everything... brainwash the public into starting another war, because now countries have the audacity to protect themselves from the arbitrary whims of what is essentially an insolvent a broke ass thug!

US Lists BRICS As New Threat - Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa - Build Up 2 WW3

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jb1ANLFqqWo


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Skip8282 on April 02, 2012, 02:17:14 PM
Yep, Guideline #3:


3.  Liberally use Wall-O-Text

Okay, so you made some shit up, got called out on it, but don't want to disappear.  The next best tactic is to create a Wall-O-Text.  Nobody, and I mean NOBODY, is going to read your 105 paragraph post, cut and pasted from some obscure website.

For added benefit, always highlight, italicize, underline, and bold various random portions of the paragraphs to make it appear as though you actually took the time to read all that dribble.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: OzmO on April 02, 2012, 02:18:51 PM
America is evil, buy gold, put HGH in your gas tank. 


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Soul Crusher on April 02, 2012, 02:19:29 PM
America is evil, buy gold, put HGH in your gas tank. 

America's monetary system is being run and controlled by evil people - yes. 


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on April 02, 2012, 03:39:14 PM
The question should be "Why would people buy gold at almost $1700/ounce?!?!?"

Actually avxo, the real question to ask is NOT what does it cost? ...but rather 'WHAT IS IT WORTH?'

If we are all in agreement that people should be acquiring & accumulating GOLD... let's move on.
What's stopping people from acquiring gold? Are you waiting for the price to drop before acquiring it?

Some of the most brilliant minds have determined we've pretty much seen a bottom as far as gold prices go. And I'm not refering to the clowns we see in MSM, the same ones like Kramer with his stupid bells, or the ones who were pushing financials like Bears, ...I'm talking those who actually know what's going on. the Marc Fabers, the Eric Sprotts. Peter Schiffs, James Turks, John Embrys, and Alasdair MacLeods etc., ...me.  :D

We all seem to believe that we've seen a bottom in gold prices. I'm afraid that those waiting for the price to drop may be out of luck, ...unless they are acquiring their gold through karatbars. Karatbars customers can actually get their gold for FREE. Wouldn't you agree that FREE is a better price than $1700. Can you get gold anywhere else at a better price than FREE?

(http://www.jaguarenterprises.com/images/free+gold+wealth.jpg)



Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Agnostic007 on April 02, 2012, 04:26:46 PM
Because in the long run GOLD retains it's value & purchasing power.

The price of GOLD has long been suppressed & manipulated downwards in order to conceal the rapid demise of fiat federal reserve note. the manipulators are losing control, and soon GOLD will revaluate to reflect it's true value. Gold may seem expensive at $1700, however, understand that is $1700 of devalued dollars... worth about the same amount as $20 circa 1913. Gold at $1700 oz is a much better acquisition than GOLD at $2,000/oz, or even $3,000/oz.

We have the ability to essentially take zero value dollars and exchange it for GOLD.

The smart money is doing just that, before people & businesses stop accepting dollars for GOLD... or anything else.
Governments and people arond the world are already phasing out the US Dollar, it won't be long before people in the USA start doing the same.


Bet you $50 cash Gold on Dec 31, 2012 will be cheaper than it is today..


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on April 02, 2012, 05:10:18 PM

Bet you $50 cash Gold on Dec 31, 2012 will be cheaper than it is today..

I only bet at Caesar's Palace, and only at BlackJack.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on April 02, 2012, 06:02:57 PM
Actually avxo, the real question to ask is NOT what does it cost? ...but rather 'WHAT IS IT WORTH?'

That was the underlying crux of the question which I asked "why would people buy gold at $1700/ounce?" It's not, realistically, worth $1700/ounce, the spot price notwithstanding.


If we are all in agreement that people should be acquiring & accumulating GOLD... let's move on. What's stopping people from acquiring gold? Are you waiting for the price to drop before acquiring it?

Except we're not all in agreement. As a growth investment vehicle is not sensible and most people want growth (perhaps because most people aren't into conspiracy theories and don't see collapse around each and every corner, but that's a discussion for another time). Investing in the stock market at large over 10 or 20 years is a much better bet if the end goal is growth and this is a well-known, substantiated fact.

Some of the most brilliant minds have determined we've pretty much seen a bottom as far as gold prices go. And I'm not refering to the clowns we see in MSM, the same ones like Kramer with his stupid bells, or the ones who were pushing financials like Bears, ...I'm talking those who actually know what's going on. the Marc Fabers, the Eric Sprotts. Peter Schiffs, James Turks, John Embrys, and Alasdair MacLeods etc., ...me.  :D

Of course the "most brilliant minds" are those who agree with your particular viewpoint, and those who don't are "clowns." Some would say that people who make such statements are clowns themselves.

And even if you honestly believe that $1700/ounce (or even $1500/ounce) is a solid support for the spot price of gold and that they're only upside... well, you can believe that the moon is made of cheese and that the tooth fairy leaves a dollar under your pillow, but that doesn't mean that your beliefs are true. What matters is cold, hard facts. And the facts don't point out to a price of $1700 being reasonable.


We all seem to believe that we've seen a bottom in gold prices. I'm afraid that those waiting for the price to drop may be out of luck, ...unless they are acquiring their gold through karatbars. Karatbars customers can actually get their gold for FREE. Wouldn't you agree that FREE is a better price than $1700. Can you get gold anywhere else at a better price than FREE?

Nobody can get anything for free, and anyone who believes otherwise is a fool. And a foold will sooner or later, lose everything and if he's lucky understand exactly how big a fool he actually was.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Internet Tough Guy on April 03, 2012, 04:18:24 PM
Samson is too smart for this board.   ::)



Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: OzmO on April 03, 2012, 04:55:07 PM
Buy Gold, hate America, put dexa-trim in your gas tank.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: kcballer on April 04, 2012, 09:00:17 AM
Buy Gold, hate America, put dexa-trim in your gas tank.

Too late to buy gold unless it's from samsonjag.

It's all those Indian and Chinese peasants with gold chains.  That's where all the power is  ::)

She is such a fool. No one should listen to her nonsense. An ETF holds more gold and the Indian and Chinese governments combined.

Oh but it's the peasants without running water that will overthrow the US currency  ::) They haven't even figured out how to not sh*t into a river or realized it's not good for your health to then drink it. 


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: OzmO on April 04, 2012, 09:34:50 AM
So should i send these "shake weights" back too?   :D


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on April 09, 2012, 01:46:25 AM
That was the underlying crux of the question which I asked "why would people buy gold at $1700/ounce?" It's not, realistically, worth $1700/ounce, the spot price notwithstanding.

This is where you & I differ in opinion. I believe it IS worth $1700/oz... infact a heckuva lot more. I believe that the price of GOLD has been surpressed & manipulated downwards for years, and that the fed, and other Central banks have been using ETF's & other paper derivatives to fool the public, and suppress the real price of GOLD. Their lies & scheming will soon be coming to an end, and true price discovery will be realized when those paper derivatives go to their true value...ZERO.

Quote
Except we're not all in agreement. As a growth investment vehicle is not sensible and most people want growth (perhaps because most people aren't into conspiracy theories and don't see collapse around each and every corner, but that's a discussion for another time). Investing in the stock market at large over 10 or 20 years is a much better bet if the end goal is growth and this is a well-known, substantiated fact.

The key operative phrase in that last paragraph is "if the end goal is growth". Right now, ...my goal is protection, preservation, and safe haven for my money. Ever since the Swiss decided to peg their franc to the euro, the only safe haven left standing in my opinion is GOLD. I will first preserve & protect my money before taking a portion of it to invest. Investing is a very tricky business these days because the rules no longer apply. Whimsical Fed intervention (read manipulation) has tossed the rule book out the window.

"In the absence of GOLD, there is no protection against confiscation through inflation" --Alan Greenspan (fmr. chair of the Federal Reserve)

 
Quote
Of course the "most brilliant minds" are those who agree with your particular viewpoint, and those who don't are "clowns." Some would say that people who make such statements are clowns themselves.

Not at all, a brilliant mind is a brilliant mind whether they agree with me or not. Warren Buffet is a prime example of a brilliant mind with whom I'm in disagreement. I believe that lately he has taken to espousing a path full of peril for the average person. I won't judge him for it tho, because he has far more skin in the game than I do. Berkshire Hathaway has been bleeding more red ink than a stuck pig, and if I stood to lose $400 Billion a year, ...I don't know what I'd do. The same goes for clowns. look at max Keiser. the man is a total clown. I do happen to agree with him tho on many issues, even though I think he's a clown.

 
Quote
And even if you honestly believe that $1700/ounce (or even $1500/ounce) is a solid support for the spot price of gold and that they're only upside... well, you can believe that the moon is made of cheese and that the tooth fairy leaves a dollar under your pillow, but that doesn't mean that your beliefs are true. What matters is cold, hard facts. And the facts don't point out to a price of $1700 being reasonable.

You just might be looking at a different set of "FACTS". And if we are looking at the same set of facts, my dots are connecting to create an entirely different picture than the one you're seeing.

Quote

Nobody can get anything for free, and anyone who believes otherwise is a fool. And a foold will sooner or later, lose everything and if he's lucky understand exactly how big a fool he actually was.


That's certainly news to me, ...and it will certainly come as news to plenty of my colleagues as well. Because many of us ARE getting gold for free. infact, as I type, my colleagues in Germany, Austria & Switzerland are testing & working the kinks out of another new and innovative way we've developed to get free gold into people's hands. It's our new 'Gold-back' system which will soon be rolled out throughout the rest of Europe, and into North America, whereby karatbars account holders who shop online at particular partner retailers will see a percentage of their purchases deposited into their gold accounts. Let's use Walmart or Victoria's Secret as examples. When you shop online with Walmart, or Victoria's Secret, you would make your purchase using your credit card as you normally would, and you would get gold back, 10% of your purchase. Of course the amount of gold back varies with each retailer.

Being very familiar with our Karatbars Gold Fund, whereby FREE GOLD is added to our accounts every month, I can't help but to conclude your comment to be based either upon deliberate intent to deceive readers or simply upon false assumptions, rather than on actual investigation? I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and say you're just very jaded & cynical from bad experiences, and have simply made a false assumption prior to doing any real investigation. Am I correct?


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on April 09, 2012, 02:10:10 AM
Too late to buy gold unless it's from samsonjag.

It's all those Indian and Chinese peasants with gold chains.  That's where all the power is  ::)

She is such a fool. No one should listen to her nonsense. An ETF holds more gold and the Indian and Chinese governments combined.

Oh but it's the peasants without running water that will overthrow the US currency  ::) They haven't even figured out how to not sh*t into a river or realized it's not good for your health to then drink it. 

ETF's are just paper. Read the fine print. They don't have to deliver any gold. They can default, and give you devalued paper in exchange. Or worse... they can default and give you nothing!.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on April 09, 2012, 02:11:56 AM
So should i send these "shake weights" back too?   :D

No OzmO, keep the shake weights. they will help you to develop the proper technique for what appears to be your favourite activity.  ;D


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: tu_holmes on April 09, 2012, 02:14:33 AM
Anyone notice that gold is down 83 dollars in the last month?

My crew are big time in gold and they are stepping away from it. The gold market only has another couple of years in it and it too will stop.

This is the new gold rush and it's not forever.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on April 09, 2012, 02:21:55 AM
Anyone notice that gold is down 83 dollars in the last month?

My crew are big time in gold and they are stepping away from it. The gold market only has another couple of years in it and it too will stop.

This is the new gold rush and it's not forever.

I've noticed the dip, ...and am grateful for it. I'm looking at my gold position as a long term thing, using a dollar cost averaging approach.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: w8m8 on April 09, 2012, 03:04:53 AM
America is evil, buy gold, put HGH in your gas tank. 

Buy Gold, hate America, put dexa-trim in your gas tank.

 ;D


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Fury on April 10, 2012, 05:10:26 AM
So let's dwell on this for a moment.

Let's say that it does hit the fan and this country (and the world) goes to hell in a hand basket. Does anyone think they'd be in any position to make their way to go Singapore to get their gold out of vault? No, of course not. If this country collapsed like old lazy eye is predicting, then what means of transportation are you going to use to get to these unnamed overseas vaults?

What is going to happen is that Ms. "Enterprises" is going to "hold" your gold and when everything goes off the reservation, she, along with your gold "bullion", is going to vanish into the wind.




Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on April 10, 2012, 05:48:56 AM
Let's look closer at the scam this piece of shit is running. You'll notice her making comments along the lines of "your gold will be held in overseas" vaults. Jim Rogers has made a similar suggestion. So let's dwell on this for a moment.

Let's say that it does hit the fan and this country (and the world) goes to hell in a hand basket. Does anyone think they'd be in any position to make their way to go Singapore to get their gold out of vault? No, of course not. If this country collapsed like old lazy eye is predicting, then what means of transportation are you going to use to get to these unnamed overseas vaults?

What is going to happen is that Ms. "Enterprises" is going to "hold" your gold and when everything goes off the reservation, she, along with your gold "bullion", is going to vanish into the wind.


I do not hold gold for anyone.

Gold CAN be vaulted for free through SecureLog in Frankfurt, a well established & trusted vaulting facility with over 8000 employees, used & trusted by the World Gold Council.

If you don't trust any facility to store your gold, TAKE DELIVERY ON IT!

You can purchase gold and have it immediately delivered to you. Depending on the quantity you purchase, it will be delivered immediately through FedEx, or for amounts larger than $50,000 delivery is fulfilled using G4S the largest private armoured security services firm in the world. G4S is the service of choice for banks around the world.



Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on April 10, 2012, 06:28:28 AM
Beyond Currency Wars, the Coming Global Gold Standard w/John Butler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YGZnwCg-Os


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: kcballer on April 10, 2012, 08:00:16 AM
ETF's are just paper. Read the fine print. They don't have to deliver any gold. They can default, and give you devalued paper in exchange. Or worse... they can default and give you nothing!.

And yet the ETF physically holds more gold than both of them.  Whether buyers of the ETF get physical possession or not is not the point.  The ETF itself still has more gold than the backwater of india.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: kcballer on April 10, 2012, 08:03:24 AM
I do not hold gold for anyone.

Gold CAN be vaulted for free through SecureLog in Frankfurt, a well established & trusted vaulting facility with over 8000 employees, used & trusted by the World Gold Council.

If you don't trust any facility to store your gold, TAKE DELIVERY ON IT!

You can purchase gold and have it immediately delivered to you. Depending on the quantity you purchase, it will be delivered immediately through FedEx, or for amounts larger than $50,000 delivery is fulfilled using G4S the largest private armoured security services firm in the world. G4S is the service of choice for banks around the world.



Hahaha so many vague statements. 


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on April 10, 2012, 10:15:06 AM
And yet the ETF physically holds more gold than both of them.  Whether buyers of the ETF get physical possession or not is not the point.  The ETF itself still has more gold than the backwater of india.

That is an inaccurate statement. ETF's are paper derivatives. They are pieces of paper that is supposed to represent actual gold, however, just as Jeff Christian testified before the CFTC in spring 2010, they are derivative financial instruments that trade in multiples of up to 100 of the underlying value. In other words, they run the printing presses on ETF's.

It's a giant game of musical chairs, and when the music stops playing, people come up short, and you can bet it won't be billionaires like the Koch brothers who got tipped off to collect their money the day before MF Global tanked. It will be average citizens. Investing  Gambling in ETF's not something I would ever do or recommend for anyone.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: tu_holmes on April 10, 2012, 10:18:37 AM
That is an inaccurate statement. ETF's are paper derivatives. They are pieces of paper that is supposed to represent actual gold, however, just as Jeff Christian testified before the CFTC in spring 2010, they are derivative financial instruments that trade in multiples of up to 100 of the underlying value. In other words, they run the printing presses on ETF's.

It's a giant game of musical chairs, and when the music stops playing, people come up short, and you can bet it won't be billionaires like the Koch brothers who got tipped off to collect their money the day before MF Global tanked. It will be average citizens. Investing  Gambling in ETF's not something I would ever do or recommend for anyone.

That's not true...

Gold no longer backs U.S. currency

In the early 1970s, inflation caused by rising prices for imported commodities, especially oil, and spending on the Vietnam War, which was not counteracted by cuts in other government expenditures, combined with a trade deficit to create a situation in which the dollar was worth less than the gold used to back it.

In 1972, the United States reset the value to 38 dollars per troy ounce (122.17 ¢/g) of gold. Because other currencies were valued in terms of the U.S. dollar, this failed to resolve the disequilibrium between the U.S. dollar and other currencies. In 1975 the United States began to float the dollar with respect to both gold and other currencies. With this the United States was, for the first time, on a fully fiat currency.

In economics, fiat currency or fiat money is money that enjoys legal tender status derived from a declaratory fiat or an authoritative order of the government. It is often associated with paper money because, without government fiat, bank notes are not a legal tender in payment of debt, and only specie is unlimited legal tender for money debts. However this is not universally true, as some currencies, notably sterling issued by Scottish banks, is not legal tender but is accepted by longstanding confidence in the Scottish banking system.

A bank of issue whose notes enjoy legal tender status by government fiat can use its own notes, making their redemption in specie optional — a matter of the 'monetary policy' of the bank in question. Historically, the institution of fiat currency has preceded and enabled the demonetisation of specie, via a monetary policy decision not to offer payment in specie at par, e.g. by suspension, devaluation or redemption in bullion or foreign currency instead. Eventually this leads to no form of payment, redemption or exchange whatsoever being offered by the issuer and a system of irredeemable freely floating national currencies.

In September 2004, it was estimated that if all the gold held by the U.S. government (261.7 million ounces = 8 140 Mg) were again required to back the circulating U.S. currency ($733,170,953,704), gold would need to be valued at $2,800/ounce (90 $/g).


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on April 10, 2012, 10:19:04 AM
Hahaha so many vague statements. 

Would you prefer I be more specific? We get specific on our webinars. That is the place for specificity.
If you or anyone else wants specifics, join us on one of our webinars. There's one taking place at 3pm EDT / (12 noon pacific)
You can find the schedule by scrolling to the bottom of my webpage.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Fury on April 10, 2012, 10:25:22 AM
This charlatan acts like she's bequeathing new knowledge onto all of us here, ignoring the fact that we've been talking about this stuff for years. Nothing she is saying hasn't already been said.


The only difference is that the rest of us weren't pushing a criminal enterprise on the backs of our posts.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Internet Tough Guy on April 10, 2012, 01:04:53 PM
This charlatan acts like she's bequeathing new knowledge onto all of us here, ignoring the fact that we've been talking about this stuff for years. Nothing she is saying hasn't already been said.


The only difference is that the rest of us weren't pushing a criminal enterprise on the backs of our posts.

She's still trying to get on Hollywood Squares when she should be finding a quiet way to kill herself.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 02, 2012, 12:52:18 AM
Anyone notice that gold is down 83 dollars in the last month?

My crew are big time in gold and they are stepping away from it. The gold market only has another couple of years in it and it too will stop.

This is the new gold rush and it's not forever.

Well, I think we have a difference of opinion there Tu. I don't think it's over, ...I think it's just beginning.

The following conversation took place between my friend Jeff, and his friend's son. He's a bright but relatively young investor. He had purchased some gold based on some things Jeff told his father. Shortly afterward, the price dropped hard. As you'll see, he was not very happy with Jeff's advice and said so in an email to him. So Jeff called him. The conversation went pretty much like this...

Jeff: Sounds like you're upset.

Friend's son: Yeah, that's putting it mildly. What the hell am I supposed to do now?

Jeff: Because the gold price has dropped?

Friend's son: Yes! It's down 15% in a month! I thought you said this was going to be a good investment.

Jeff: It is. And it will be. You might even consider buying more here if you have the funds.

Friend's son: I have some other money, but why would I put it in gold? It's losing money.

Jeff: Because it's on sale. Because it's cheaper now than when you bought it. And especially because none of the reasons for buying it have gone away.

Friend's son: That doesn't mean it's going to go back up.

Jeff: As I told your dad, there are no guarantees, but I think it will have to go higher. Either way, it will hold its purchasing power over time. We're holding it as an alternate currency, a more sound form of money that can't be debased.

Friend's son: Yeah, well, my money just got debased, big time. It needs to go up 20% for me just to get back to even.

Jeff: Five years from now your dollars will have lost at least 10% of their value, based just on current trends. There's a good chance it will lose more than that. And gold will probably rise more than 10% a year.

Friend's son: [silence.]

Jeff: Look, I know you're upset, but I'd hate to see you bail. This is one of the best investments we can make this decade.

Friend's son: [relenting a little bit]: You really believe that.

Jeff: I can't promise you anything, but yes, I do.

Friend's son: And that's because you think inflation is coming.

Jeff: It's for a lot of reasons, and that's one of them. Inflation is virtually baked in the cake; the dollar's long-term problems will be impractical to resolve; and the global economy is on high alert. These are exactly the kind of circumstances gold is meant for.

Friend's son: Then why is it falling?

Jeff: Institutions need cash and liquidity, and gold offers a bid. Besides, nothing goes up in a straight line, and gold had just run up 35%. It was time for a break.

Friend's son: So this big drop really doesn't worry you.

Jeff: It doesn't. I'm buying. In fact, I'll prove it to you - send me your gold and I'll buy it from you.

Friend's son: [Silence.]

Jeff: I know it doesn't feel good right now, and it may take some time for it to make another new high, but gold is too important not to own here. It's a long-term trade, so plan on holding it for a while. In fact, if it helps, just forget about the fact that you own it - go do something fun and have a beer at the pub.

Friend's son: [a little chuckle].

Jeff: I don't think you made a mistake buying at the price you did, in spite of it being lower now. Odds are high you'll be happy in a few years.

Friend's son: [pause] All right...

I'm glad his friend's son decided to hold on, because that conversation took place in June, 2006! He'd bought gold at around $700 and watched a month later as the price fell to as low as $567.

Gold ended up declining a total of 21% in just five weeks before bottoming, after a run-up of 35% (sound familiar?). And yes, it took over a year before it hit a new high.

Yet, his friend's son - now older and wiser - wishes he could go back in time and make the same mistake again and buy gold at $700. He has more than doubled his purchasing power, despite of buying at a temporary peak.

I think that a few years from now we'll all wish we could go "back in time" and buy gold at $1,700. And I believe those who truly understand the value of gold as a long term store of value will still feel that way if gold falls to $1,500, as some writers are projecting.

I think this because circumstances now are worse - and hence more bullish for gold - than they were in 2006. Look at how much money has been printed (the monetary base now exceeds $2.6 trillion, a mind-boggling 200% increase since 2006). Look at the state of the global economy: highly vulnerable and propped up by governments. Consider the lingering and inescapable predicament of many European nations - how, exactly, will this be resolved in a healthy way? Ask yourself if the outlook for the US dollar is out of the woods (roughly 10% of federal revenue now goes solely to debt payments - a figure that is projected to triple). Explain how the reckless path of deficit spending will shift without causing some kind of major impact on the economy (history shows abject deficit spending leads to economic downfall, virtually without exception). Tell me how we avoid massive inflation, an outcome that seems so certain at this point that about the only way to avoid it would be a massive global meltdown - and even then, the Fed would surely print to oblivion.

Nothing is guaranteed. But until real interest rates are positive again, government leaders instigate honest solutions to our debts and deficits, the global economy becomes an engine of growth, the sovereign debt issues in Europe are genuinely resolved, and global currencies - especially the US dollar - are strong again, I'm buying gold.

Yes, there will be volatility. And yes, a short-term "solution" to what seems like certain default in Greece, for example, would cause some speculators to sell gold. But like in the spring of 2006, these are temporary, short-term fixes only. For the tumultuous times that are most likely ahead, there simply isn't any better currency protection than gold and silver.

Join me in calling your favorite bullion dealer and making the mistake of buying gold at $1,700 / oz


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on May 02, 2012, 01:46:02 AM
I think that a few years from now we'll all wish we could go "back in time" and buy gold at $1,700. And I believe those who truly understand the value of gold as a long term store of value will still feel that way if gold falls to $1,500, as some writers are projecting.

If you really believe that, I have a proposal for you. I am offering to enter into a legally binding contract to sell you one London Good Delivery Bar - that's 12.5 kgs of gold; I will accept payment now, at a 3% discount from the current spot price, and will deliver the bar at a time of your choosing, after May 1, 2013. If you really believe that gold will go up, then this is a win-win situation and you will take me up on it. We can meet at a notary public that is convenient for you and sign the contract. I'll even pay the notary fees, but please be sure to bring the cash.

Nothing is guaranteed.

You can be guaranteed over 27.5 lbs of gold at a price that is about $50 lower than spot. Can't beat that!

 
But until real interest rates are positive again, government leaders instigate honest solutions to our debts and deficits, the global economy becomes an engine of growth, the sovereign debt issues in Europe are genuinely resolved, and global currencies - especially the US dollar - are strong again, I'm buying gold.

Great. I'm selling. Send me a PM and we can work out the details.


Yes, there will be volatility.

So don't delay, call today! Lock in your low rate for your London Good Delivery Bar at a great price!


Join me in calling your favorite bullion dealer and making the mistake of buying gold at $1,700 / oz

I'm standing by for your PM.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on May 02, 2012, 02:03:30 AM
24, if you message me in the next 5 minutes, I'll actually do 5% below the current spot. Don't delay, message me today!


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on May 02, 2012, 02:19:13 AM
I guess you must not be in a buying mood at ~ $1600/oz, or you would have attempted to contact me to lock in the low rate. Oh well... You lost out on buying 400 ounces of gold at 5% below spot.

You can still take advantage of my 3% discount though.

I'm standing by!


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 02, 2012, 06:56:22 AM
If you really believe that, I have a proposal for you. I am offering to enter into a legally binding contract to sell you one London Good Delivery Bar - that's 12.5 kgs of gold; I will accept payment now, at a 3% discount from the current spot price, and will deliver the bar at a time of your choosing, after May 1, 2013. If you really believe that gold will go up, then this is a win-win situation and you will take me up on it. We can meet at a notary public that is convenient for you and sign the contract. I'll even pay the notary fees, but please be sure to bring the cash.

Avxo, you make me giggle.

For the sake of argument, I'm going to take the position that everything you've just said was true.

I choose to purchase only Karatbars for a number of reasons including, but not limited to...

With Karatbars, I don't have to worry about authenticity of the gold, storage for the gold, insurance etc., but also because I can receive smaller more transaction friendly weights.

I am someone who would prefer to have 31 one gram weights, over a 1 oz weight any day of the week.

I have no use for larger weights since they don't provide me with the flexibility I demand from my gold,

I do indeed believe gold will go up, and if it does what I fully believe it will, ...I will most definitely have no use for a 400/oz bar. I would prefer to have it in the form of 12,440 one gram units. Actually, I would much prefer 24,880 half gram units, but unfortunately in some jurisdictions those are subject to VAT. As such, you can easily see why a 400 oz bar would certainly not be an optimal win - win situation for me.


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You can be guaranteed over 27.5 lbs of gold at a price that is about $50 lower than spot. Can't beat that!


Actually, Karatbars can beat that. If I am able to get it for FREE from Karatbars, why would I buy from you? Besides, for that amount of gold, I would expect a better price than $50 below spot,


 
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Great. I'm selling. Send me a PM and we can work out the details.


So don't delay, call today! Lock in your low rate for your London Good Delivery Bar at a great price!


I'm standing by for your PM.

...bbbut, you're not my favourite bullion dealer, ...Karatbars International is. sorry.

24, if you message me in the next 5 minutes, I'll actually do 5% below the current spot. Don't delay, message me today!

I guess you must not be in a buying mood at ~ $1600/oz, or you would have attempted to contact me to lock in the low rate. Oh well... You lost out on buying 400 ounces of gold at 5% below spot.

You can still take advantage of my 3% discount though.

I'm standing by!

Actually Avxo, I'm not in a buying mood at the moment. As of 10:55 EDT current spot is $1652.10. It's currently down $10.10. Since Karatbars prices lag the market by 24 hrs, I don't get in a buying mood until I see the price rise. I know I can then lock in my sale price. When I see the market dips from day to day, I know I can delay purchases because the Karatbars price the next day will reflect price movements the previous day. Just another advantage I prefer by using Karatbars

And lastly Avxo, If you expect me to message you within 5 mins, for goodness sakes dude, don't post it at 6:00 in the morning. I don't live on a farm. Who the heck gets up that early in the morning? I can barely even see to type this reply to you. It feels like my eyesballs are wearing fuzzy little angora sweaters at the moment.  ;D


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on May 02, 2012, 08:54:14 AM
Then how about 400 ounces of gold in karatbars, for $1500 / ounce? You pay today and can take e-delivery anytime after December 1st, 2013?

And as for sleeping... you should know better! You snooze, you lose!


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 02, 2012, 09:36:27 AM
Then how about 400 ounces of gold in karatbars, for $1500 / ounce? You pay today and can take e-delivery anytime after December 1st, 2013?

And as for sleeping... you should know better! You snooze, you lose!

Now you got my attention! ...but why would I want to pay for 400 / oz of karatbars at $1500 / oz, when I can get it directly from Karatbars at a far more economical price, ...perhaps even free? Or when I can have it added to my Karatbars account by various merchants as I go about the course of my everyday online shopping? And why would I choose to acquire those karatbars from you, when I can acquire it from Karatbars directly, ...and make money on my own acquisition?

And lastly, what the heck is e-delivery? ??? If I'm going to acquire 400 oz of Karatbars, why would I want to wait til December to take delivery. If I'm getting 400 oz of Karatbars, I'm going to want it either immediately in the vault within 3 days, or immediately delivered to me via G4S armed security couriers, not 19 months from now. I'm not into futures speculating. That's what screwed Gerald Celente. I make immediate exchanges. put my fiat paper down, and I expect my gold to be in the vault within 3 days, or enroute to me within 3 days. No sitting around for 19 months. Of course I will want some gold sitting in my Karatbars account, because in the near future, we will have the ability to trade mere fractions of a gram for goods & services with merchants worldwide.

If gold does what I fully expect it to do, and we use Mike Maloney's conservative estimate of $20,000 / oz, that could equate to roughly $600 / gram. If I'm buying something that cost $78, I can simply transfer 0.13 grams of gold to the merchant, rather than have to deal with a hyperinflated fiat currency that results in price changes by the minute. That's what can occur in a hyperinflationary period. When goods & services are priced in gold however, we see no such wild fluctuations. It's a sound money system, not subject to inflation, or devaluation, insolvent governments.

Since you seemed determined to sell me some gold, and are even willing to sell me Karatbars, ...I'll make it easy for you to close the deal.

I will agree to the deposit of 400 oz of genuine KaratbarsTM from you, in a variety of formats and to a few different accounts, which will be specified, over a specific time period to be specified, in exchange for $100 Trillion Zimbabwe dollars.

Yes, Avxo, I'm not just a millionaire, or even a mere billionaire, I am a TRILLIONAIRE multiple times over. :D

If these terms are agreeable to you, hit me up in PM within the next 5 mins, ;D


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on May 02, 2012, 09:47:32 AM
Now you got my attention! ...but why would I want to pay for 400 / oz of karatbars at $1500 / oz, when I can get it directly from Karatbars at a far more economical price, ...perhaps even free? Or when I can have it added to my Karatbars account by various merchants as I go about the course of my everyday online shopping? And why would I choose to acquire those karatbars from you, when I can acquire it from Karatbars directly, ...and make money on my own acquisition?

Because (a) I doubt you could get gold right now for the price I quoted ($1500 per ounce) and you certainly can't get it for free.

And lastly, what the heck is e-delivery? ??? If I'm going to acquire 400 oz of Karatbars, why would I want to wait til December to take delivery. If I'm getting 400 oz of Karatbars, I'm going to want it either immediately in the vault within 3 days, or immediately delivered to me via G4S armed security couriers, not 7 months from now.  Of course I will want some sitting in my Karatbars account, because in the near future, we will have the ability to trade mere fractions of a gram for goods & services with merchants worldwide.

Having no idea what karatbars are, I assumed it's some sort of e-gold thing, where you can transfer gold electronically. If they're not, then fine - whatever the customary transfer mechanism for karatbars is.


If gold does what I fully expect it to do, and we use Mike Maloney's conservative estimate of $20,000 / oz, that could equate to roughly $600 / gram. If I'm buying something that cost $78, I can simply transfer 0.13 grams of gold to the merchant, rather than have to deal with a hyperinflated fiat currency that results in price changes by the minute. That's what can occur in a hyperinflationary period. When goods & services are priced in gold however, we see no such wild fluctuations. It's a sound money system, not subject to inflation, or devaluation, insolvent governments.

Do you really expect gold at $20,000 / oz? If so, I have an even better proposal for you. Forget about what I said before. Check this out! For $10,000 in cash today, I will guarantee, in writing, the delivery of 1000 ounces of gold - in whatever medium you prefer (bars, coins, karat-thingies) - at any time you wish, after the spot price of gold exceeds $10,000 / oz. That would work out to $1000 / ounce!


Since you seemed determined to sell me some gold, and are even willing to sell me Karatbars, ...I'll make it easy for you to close the deal.

I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. You've been talking awfully loud in here, so... are you willing to put your money where your noisehole is?


If these terms are agreeable to you, hit me up in PM within the next 5 mins, ;D

No need for a PM. I'm perfectly willing to do this in public, for everyone to see.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 02, 2012, 11:10:25 AM
Because (a) I doubt you could get gold right now for the price I quoted ($1500 per ounce) and you certainly can't get it for free.

OK, so you doubt. I get that part, but I still haven't seen an answer to my questions.
Your doubts about my ability to acquire gold at less than $1500 oz or even free, do not in my estimation amount to sufficient reasons to acquire it from you via a speculative future transaction. There is no doubt in my mind of about what my options are with Karatbars, I know what I can get via Karatbars, and what they are worth, so again I ask for all the reasons specified above, why would I acquire it from you in the manner you propose?

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Having no idea what karatbars are, I assumed it's some sort of e-gold thing, where you can transfer gold electronically. If they're not, then fine - whatever the customary transfer mechanism for karatbars is.

Gee whiz Avxo, if you're going to disparage something, or even make a comparison, you really should know what it is you are disparaging or comparing in the first place... don't you think? I'm hesitant to post it here, because I don't want to be accused of spamming, but for your edification, so you can know what you're talking about... KaratbarsTM are trademarked 999.9% pure 24kt gold bullion bars, produced by a private Tier 1 refinery on the LBMA good delivery list. Of the 95 Tier One refineries in the world, 89 are government owned or controlled. Only 6 are private, and our refinery Atasay, that produces our Atakulche karatbars are one of those 6. KaratbarsTM contain a unique hologram across the back and come embedded in a plastic card, the size of a credit card with the LBMA stamp, and the assayers signature attached. This makes KaratbarsTM easily recognizable by banks and gold merchants all over the world, as genuine 24 kt 999.9% pure monetary gold. KaratbarsTM are the finest quality & highest purity of gold available, ...and it's available at the lowest price. For the first time, Gold has become afforable for the masses. In addition to removing the burden of proof of authenticity from the bearer, the plastic card also serves to protect the gold, because gold of that purity is very soft, and the hologram ensures the gold has not been tampered with.


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Do you really expect gold at $20,000 / oz?

I do expect it to happen. What I don't know is when? Infact, I think it is quite reasonable for it to even go higher than that. as to when... well, that's a crap shoot. But in the meantime, whether it gets there in my lifetime, or in my grandchildren's lifetime, I do know that gold in the meantime will serve as a secure store of value.

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If so, I have an even better proposal for you. Forget about what I said before. Check this out! For $10,000 in cash today, I will guarantee, in writing, the delivery of 1000 ounces of gold - in whatever medium you prefer (bars, coins, karat-thingies) - at any time you wish, after the spot price of gold exceeds $10,000 / oz. That would work out to $1000 / ounce!

Oh Avxo, stop. you're making me giggle uncontrollably now. I told you my terms. ...and your math is fuzzy. :D

As I stated before, I'm not into speculative futures trading. I hope you won't take offense by this, but how do I even know you will be able to get gold either now or in the future? I'm not into ETF's or Gold "certificates" I acquire only physical. Karatbars is a company I know & trust. I've met the owner & CEO. I've been face to face with him, and belly to belly, so to speak, and I trust this company. I've watched him in operation for the past few years before I even trusted him with a dime, and I've seen him step up to the plate and do the right thing time after time after time. I know the strength of Karatbars. I know Harald's vision, and  his mission, and I have all the trust & respect in the world for him. I've met the people behind Karatbars, as well as those in charge of Customer Support at their various worldwide offices. Karatbars has patent pending proprietary gold extraction technology that allows us to extract as much as 15x's the amount of gold from ore than other technologies, and to do so without the use of cyanide & mercury. In my opinion, that makes Karatbars a tactical player in present & future global gold extraction which is very important to me. The poisioning of this planet is neither sustainable, nor conducive to human life. Africa has the ability to be the bread basket of the world, but it can't be if cyanide & mercury are poisoning the water table and seeping into the plants & vegetation.

Quote

I am willing to put my money where my mouth is. You've been talking awfully loud in here, so... are you willing to put your money where your noisehole is?

 :o  Noisehole?? tsk tsk. now that's not very nice.
You say you're willing to put your money where your mouth is, ...but from what I can see, I'm the only one being asked to put up any cash. lol. :D

But yes, I am in fact putting my money where my "noisehole" is. I walk my talk every day. The acquisition of gold obtained via Green gold extraction technology is an active part of the conscious consumerism I endeavor to practice. The fact that you even made this "offer" tells me you missed the part where I said I'm not into speculative futures trading for precious metals. I acquire from karatbars, and within 3 days, my gold is either securely vaulted in the facility of my choosing, or it is immediately delivered to me via FedEx or G4S depending on the quantity of gold I'm taking delivery on.

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No need for a PM. I'm perfectly willing to do this in public, for everyone to see.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on May 02, 2012, 01:21:34 PM
Your doubts about my ability to acquire gold at less than $1500 oz or even free, do not in my estimation amount to sufficient reasons to acquire it from you via a speculative future transaction.

That's a fair point.

There is no doubt in my mind of about what my options are with Karatbars, I know what I can get via Karatbars, and what they are worth, so again I ask for all the reasons specified above, why would I acquire it from you in the manner you propose?

I'll answer your question in a second. I understand that you don't want to engage in a speculative future transaction, but I assume that hinges only on the issue of whether I can actually produce the gold, if the conditions are met. So let's play a game, shall we?

Let's assume, arguendo, that I have the 100 ounces of physical gold held in a secure storage facility that you approve of. Let's further assume that I am willing to enter into a contract with you that says: "In exchange for $10,000 paid on May 2nd, 2012, avxo agrees to deliver, on demand by 24KT, a total of 100 ounces of gold, at any time after the price of gold exceeds $10,000 per ounce. avxo irrevocably agrees to allow the secure gold storage facility to store the 100 ounces of gold and hold them in escrow. If avxo fails to deliver 100 ounces of gold to 24KT on demand after the price of gold exceeds $10,000 per ounce, the facility is authorized to transfer ownership of the 100 ounces of gold to 24KT."

Surely, if you actually believe that gold will hint $20,000 per ounce (an estimate you called conservative) then this is a great deal for you: you will be buying 100 ounces of gold at $100 per ounce; this is a ridiculous discount over current spot price of ~$1600 per ounce. The last time that gold was at $100 was almost 20 years ago!

So would you then be willing to enter into a contract? If not, why?


Gee whiz Avxo, if you're going to disparage something

I didn't disparage anything. I know nothing about Karatbars, and don't feel inclined to learn about them, since I have no intention of purchasing gold at the current astronomical prices. I assumed, for the purposes of this example, that it was some kind of electronically transferrable currency backed by gold. Big deal...

[...] KaratbarsTM are trademarked 999.9% pure 24kt gold bullion bars

999.9%? Really? Damn, that's impressive. Every ounce of it must contain like 9.999 ounces of gold!


For the first time, Gold has become afforable for the masses.

At $1700 an ounce, I'd hardly call it affordable. And I certainly wouldn't call it sensible. But to each their own.


I do expect it to happen. What I don't know is when? Infact, I think it is quite reasonable for it to even go higher than that. as to when... well, that's a crap shoot. But in the meantime, whether it gets there in my lifetime, or in my grandchildren's lifetime, I do know that gold in the meantime will serve as a secure store of value.

So you should jump at the opportunity to buy it at the deep discount I'm offering. Again, assume I have the gold and am willing to keep it in escrow for you. You pay $10,000 now and you get 100 ounces of gold as soon as gold exceeds $10,000 per ounce. Again, you'd effectively be paying $100 per ounce!


Oh Avxo, stop. you're making me giggle uncontrollably now. I told you my terms. ...and your math is fuzzy. :D

My math isn't fuzzy at all. I'm willing to sell you 100 ounces of gold for $10,000 -> ($10,000) / (100 ounces) = $100 per ounce.


As I stated before, I'm not into speculative futures trading.

As I said, I can respect that. But surely, such a deep discount is too good to pass up. Remember, gold was at $100 per ounce was in 1974 - almost 40 years ago! I'm offering a deal that's hard to beat! Unless you don't think that buying at $100 per ounce isn't a good investment!


I hope you won't take offense by this, but how do I even know you will be able to get gold either now or in the future?

No, I don't take offense at all. It's a perfectly valid concern. Again, assume that I have 100 ounces of gold stored in escrow, and that if I don't hold up my end of the bargain, a phone call to the storage facility will release the 100 ounces of gold held in escrow to you.


You say you're willing to put your money where your mouth is, ...but from what I can see, I'm the only one being asked to put up any cash. lol. :D

It's true that I don't have to put up cash right now - but I would have to eventually. But if that's your major concern, assume I have the 100 ounces held under the previously described escrow arrangement.


If the numbers scare you, I have another idea. I have 2 1 oz gold canadian maple leaf coins in front of me. I am willing to allow a board member we both trust to hold onto them for 5 years. You pay me $500 by PayPal, and if at any time in the next 5 years the price of gold exceeds $5,000 / ounce, the coins are yours for the $500 you sent: effectively, you'd buy gold at $250 per ounce. If, on the other hand, gold doesn't cross the $5,000 per ounce mark in the 5 year period, I get to keep the coins and the money. How's that sound?

[Update: Hell, I'm, willing to get 2 ounces of "Karatbars" if you don't like Maples. Same deal. We can even keep them online using whatever storage gold bar - a company you trust - offers.]

Again, I understand you say you're not into speculation (although, in reality you are: whenever you buy an asset thinking it's low, you're engaging in speculative behavior). But surely there's some combination of the numbers at which you're willing to speculate. What is it?


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 02, 2012, 04:19:55 PM
That's a fair point.

I'll answer your question in a second. I understand that you don't want to engage in a speculative future transaction, but I assume that hinges only on the issue of whether I can actually produce the gold, if the conditions are met. So let's play a game, shall we?
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/gold+dice2525.jpg)
You just don't stop do you? I thought we were already playing a game. The "See how long avxo can keep coming up with wild scenarios before I pee my panties with laughter" game. no? ???

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Let's assume, arguendo, that I have the 100 ounces of physical gold held in a secure storage facility that you approve of. Let's further assume that I am willing to enter into a contract with you that says: "In exchange for $10,000 paid on May 2nd, 2012, avxo agrees to deliver, on demand by 24KT, a total of 100 ounces of gold, at any time after the price of gold exceeds $10,000 per ounce. avxo irrevocably agrees to allow the secure gold storage facility to store the 100 ounces of gold and hold them in escrow. If avxo fails to deliver 100 ounces of gold to 24KT on demand after the price of gold exceeds $10,000 per ounce, the facility is authorized to transfer ownership of the 100 ounces of gold to 24KT."

Dude your numbers keep going down. :o What happened to 1,000 oz of gold? :o I don't like it when a guy goes down on me. {psssst: Well, actually I do, ...but not when they do it with numbers.} ;D

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Surely, if you actually believe that gold will hint $20,000 per ounce (an estimate you called conservative) then this is a great deal for you: you will be buying 100 ounces of gold at $100 per ounce; this is a ridiculous discount over current spot price of ~$1600 per ounce. The last time that gold was at $100 was almost 20 years ago!

So would you then be willing to enter into a contract?


No I would not

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If not, why?

I am tempted to say the reason is ..."because it's Wednesday" :D
Meaning = My money, my reasons, my choices & my decision. If I don't want to share them with you, ...any 'ole excuse will do! ;D

...but I won't go that route. I'll simply re-iterate as I told you previously, Physical Gold acquisition for me is not a speculative investment? it is a safe haven. A store of value of the money I currenctly have. It's not something to wheel & deal, ...or "make market moves" to make money, ...it is about preserving the value & purchasing power of the money I currently have in a form that allows me maximum protection, as well as flexibility. It is a straight exchange of worth-less fiat paper, for hard money. What you are proposing is a bet, that ties up my bad money (which at the moment is still being accepted) for 5 yrs in order to gamble on a time line of which I am not confident. I am confident about gold's movement... just not when it will occur. Tieing any amount of money up in escrow or otherwise in a medium, form, or fashion that is not highly liquidateable if need be, would be in my opinion counter to my particular strategy. It would be tantamount to parking money in a CD that I couldn't touch, all the while inflation eats away at it's value. I am confident gold will rise, over the long term, I believe GOLD has to revalue, and that true price discovery is inevitable, ...but as I said previously, when that will be, I do not know. Who is to say it will occur during the next 5 years? it could, ...but it may not. it could take 6 years. If I made such a bet with you and it took 6 years, that would certainly suck for me wouldn't it? All indicators tell me there isn't much further the FED or the ECB can go, and I know the Obama admin intends to destroy the dollar, and the BIS & the IMF are just itching to introduce their SDRs to the world, but I only do my gambling at Caesars, and only at the Black Jack table.


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I didn't disparage anything. I know nothing about Karatbars, and don't feel inclined to learn about them, since I have no intention of purchasing gold at the current astronomical prices. I assumed, for the purposes of this example, that it was some kind of electronically transferrable currency backed by gold. Big deal...

It's not backed by gold, ...it is GOLD! 999.9% pure 24kt monetary gold

(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/KaratbarsCardFront.jpg)

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999.9%? Really? Damn, that's impressive. Every ounce of it must contain like 9.999 ounces of gold!

There you go again with your fuzzy math. ;D

Yes it is impressive, ...very impressive.


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At $1700 an ounce, I'd hardly call it affordable. And I certainly wouldn't call it sensible. But to each their own.

it is extremely affordable for the masses, because one is not required to acquire multiple ounces at a time.

it works just like your current fiat paper currency savings account. like the one you have at Wells Fargo, citibank, Bank of America etc., you make regular discretionary bank deposits when you want, and your account balance accrues in dollars & cents, or euro, or yen, or whatever denomination the account is in. It's the same with your KaratbarsTM account. You make regular discretionary deposits whenever you choose, except, instead of your balance accrueing in dollars & cents, your account balance accrues in grams, and ounces, and kilos etc., etc., It's quite affordable for the masses, because one can make a deposit of as little as 50 euro, or approx $65 US dollars, and start accumulating GOLD 1 gram at a time. Using a dollar cost averaging approach as Swiss investor Marc Faber recommends, an individual can start accumulating GOLD as a way to safeguard and protect their purchasing power... for less than $20 a week. Everyone can afford that.


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So you should jump at the opportunity to buy it at the deep discount I'm offering. Again, assume I have the gold and am willing to keep it in escrow for you. You pay $10,000 now and you get 100 ounces of gold as soon as gold exceeds $10,000 per ounce. Again, you'd effectively be paying $100 per ounce!


My math isn't fuzzy at all. I'm willing to sell you 100 ounces of gold for $10,000 -> ($10,000) / (100 ounces) = $100 per ounce.

LOL, What part of I don't engage in speculative futures did you not understand?


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As I said, I can respect that. But surely, such a deep discount is too good to pass up. Remember, gold was at $100 per ounce was in 1974 - almost 40 years ago! I'm offering a deal that's hard to beat! Unless you don't think that buying at $100 per ounce isn't a good investment!

avxo, have you not heard? "Greed is one of the 7 Deadly Sins." If gold goes above $10,000/oz, I will have plenty and will have no need for an additional 100 oz.

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No, I don't take offense at all. It's a perfectly valid concern. Again, assume that I have 100 ounces of gold stored in escrow, and that if I don't hold up my end of the bargain, a phone call to the storage facility will release the 100 ounces of gold held in escrow to you.

OK, it's official. you are deaf. ;D

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It's true that I don't have to put up cash right now - but I would have to eventually. But if that's your major concern, assume I have the 100 ounces held under the previously described escrow arrangement.

dude, you don't get it do you? lol. I'm not into assumptions. I want no counter-party risk, that is why I acquire phyical bullion in the form of karatbarsTM

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If the numbers scare you, I have another idea. I have 2 1 oz gold canadian maple leaf coins in front of me. I am willing to allow a board member we both trust to hold onto them for 5 years. You pay me $500 by PayPal, and if at any time in the next 5 years the price of gold exceeds $5,000 / ounce, the coins are yours for the $500 you sent: effectively, you'd buy gold at $250 per ounce. If, on the other hand, gold doesn't cross the $5,000 per ounce mark in the 5 year period, I get to keep the coins and the money. How's that sound?

it sounds like tying up my money for 5 years for government issued gold that should Harper or Mulcair decide to recall, would leave me sitting with $100 of fiat paper trash. in the event there is no recall, leave me with a couple of not very flexible coins. What is it about "No GOVERNMENT ISSUED GOLD"  do you not understand?


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[Update: Hell, I'm, willing to get 2 ounces of "Karatbars" if you don't like Maples. Same deal. We can even keep them online using whatever storage gold bar - a company you trust - offers.]

Again, I understand you say you're not into speculation (although, in reality you are: whenever you buy an asset thinking it's low, you're engaging in speculative behavior). But surely there's some combination of the numbers at which you're willing to speculate. What is it?

OK, now we're getting somewhere ...except I don't want to bet with you. You are more than welcome to open up a free Karatbars account and acquire a few oz. You should commit to acquiring at least 100 grams... over time, or all at once is you want. I think you'll be very happy you did. :) And when gold does what I think it will do, you can thank me with a bottle of Moet Karatbars Champagne. If gold does not do what I think it will, you can liquidate your Karatbars, get your fiat paper currency back, and rub my nose in it. Deal?

(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/karatbars+champagne.jpg)


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 02, 2012, 04:59:59 PM
Let's be real, if you want gold or silver physical, take actual possession and get American eagles, Canadian maples, Austrian Philharmonics, south African kugarands, even Chinese pandas or Mexican liberatads. 


Forget this crazy shit about letting someone else hold it.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 02, 2012, 05:15:14 PM
Let's be real, if you want gold or silver physical, take actual possession and get American eagles, Canadian maples, Austrian Philharmonics, south African kugarands, even Chinese pandas or Mexican liberatads. 


Forget this crazy shit about letting someone else hold it.

As Mike Maloney is so fond of saying "If you don't hold it, ...you don't own it."
I agree with 33386 about taking physical possession for those who don't trust any vaulting facility to store their precious metals for them, ...but I vehemently disagree with his advice to acquire Government issued gold.

Remember, with Government issued gold, you are NOT the owner, merely the bearer, and the government can recall it's gold at any time.

I firmly beleive privately issued LBMA gold is what people should be getting, ...but to each it's own. You can be rest assured that the 1% of the 1% acquire privately issued or numismatics not subject to confiscation. 


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 02, 2012, 05:19:05 PM
As Mike Maloney is so fond of saying "If you don't hold it, ...you don't own it."
I agree with 33386 about taking physical possession for those who don't trust any vaulting facility to store their precious metals for them, ...but I vehemently disagree with his advice to acquire Government issued gold.

Remember, with Government issued gold, you are NOT the owner, merely the bearer, and the government can recall it's gold at any time.

I firmly beleive privately issued LBMA gold is what people should be getting, ...but to each it's own. You can be rest assured that the 1% of the 1% acquire privately issued or numismatics not subject to confiscation. 

The thing is that American eagles, Canadian maples, SA kugarands, Austrian phils are widely accepted and recognized.   

If you have to redeem your gold or silver for. Currency or barter or other items, it's easier to unload commonly respected coins like. I listed. 


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 02, 2012, 06:28:44 PM
The thing is that American eagles, Canadian maples, SA kugarands, Austrian phils are widely accepted and recognized.  

If you have to redeem your gold or silver for. Currency or barter or other items, it's easier to unload commonly respected coins like. I listed.  

That is my point exactly. There was a time when South Africa was on the list of pariah countries and one could not liquidate a Krugerrand unless they were inside South Africa, and even then it was a challenge. further more... you're talking 1 oz coins which can and have been counterfeited in the past. the burden of proof is one YOU.

Do you recall that video hugo posted a few years back, when what'shisface from NIA was trying to trade his Canadian Maple leaf for $50 and no one would take it? Of course that was out of genuine ignorance, however, if you go into any coin dealer, or any cash for gold place and attempt to sell it, they will require it be tested first, ...and heaven help you if you have a counterfeit. You're also going to lose something. Karatbars offes the guaranteed highest buyback price. in addition, if you do have to liquidate because you're in a cash crunch and need a quick $500, why should you have to liquidate the entire oz. If your oz was instead in 31 one gram units, you could liquidate the 10 units, and still retain possession of the other 21. Actually, LBMA certified gold is more widely accepted and recognizeable globally as the genuine thing., and becoming more recognizeable everyday.Karatbars is open in over 100 countries and is currently delivering to I believe 58+ at present. By the end of the year, we expect Karatbars to be in 194 countries worldwide. Remember, the Vatican could have chosen to issue a limited edition commemorative Pope John Paul II gold coin using any mint they chose. They chose KaratbarsTM. there's a reason for that.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on May 02, 2012, 09:37:33 PM
No I would not

I can certainly understand the "not wishing to speculate" part, although I will again point out that in buying (and recommending) gold, you're doing just that: speculating (although not necessarily with a mind towards appreciation). But I want to make sure I understand something: I'm offering to sell you the option to buy gold (even going so far as to offer it in the preferred medium of your choice) for $250 per ounce, which is approximately 15% of the current spot price and you're turning me down? You claim that gold is a great buy at $1,700 an ounce, that it has only upside and that you feel that a $20,000 per ounce it has only upside. And yet, you refuse to spend $500 to get gold that would cost you $3,400 on the open market, and which you think will eventually be worth $40,000. You know what this tells me? It tells you that you are full of shit when you say that gold is a great buy at $1,700 per ounce.


What you are proposing is a bet

Right. It's a bet that calls your repeated assertions that gold only has upside, and the statement you quoted (and tacitly approved of) that $20,000 per ounce is a conservative estimate on the value of gold.

that ties up my bad money (which at the moment is still being accepted) for 5 yrs in order to gamble on a time line of which I am not confident. I am confident about gold's movement... just not when it will occur. Tieing any amount of money up in escrow or otherwise in a medium, form, or fashion that is not highly liquidateable if need be, would be in my opinion counter to my particular strategy. It would be tantamount to parking money in a CD that I couldn't touch, all the while inflation eats away at it's value. I am confident gold will rise, over the long term, I believe GOLD has to revalue, and that true price discovery is inevitable, ...but as I said previously, when that will be, I do not know. Who is to say it will occur during the next 5 years? it could, ...but it may not. it could take 6 years. If I made such a bet with you and it took 6 years, that would certainly suck for me wouldn't it? All indicators tell me there isn't much further the FED or the ECB can go, and I know the Obama admin intends to destroy the dollar, and the BIS & the IMF are just itching to introduce their SDRs to the world, but I only do my gambling at Caesars, and only at the Black Jack table.

OK... so you don't want to tie up your money. I have another idea. How about this? I will buy 2 ounces of gold in Karatbars, which I will transfer to you immediately. You don't have to put any money down. If gold hits $3,000 per ounce in the next two years, you win and you got two ounces of gold for free. If, on the other hand, gold doesn't hit $3,000 per ounce in that timeframe, then you will return the 2 ounces of gold to me along with an additional $500 in cash.

Something tells me that you won't agree even to this proposal.


It's not backed by gold, ...it is GOLD! 999.9% pure 24kt monetary gold

First of all, it's unclear what "pure monetary gold" means. It's a nonsensical term. And second of all, I'll repeat again: 999.9%? You are claiming that a gold bar is 999.9% pure gold? How is it possible for something to be 9.9 times itself? Do you even understand how percentages work?

(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/KaratbarsCardFront.jpg)

For all your "expertise" (and I use the term loosely) in gold you just showed how clueless you are. The 999.9 is the gold's millesimal fineness. It isn't a *PERCENTAGE*. It's a PER MILLE (‰) measurement. Literally, it means "out of thousands." It's basically saying that 999.9 out of 1000 parts gold.

But even if you didn't know any of that, it should be completely obvious even to someone who hasn't even taken mathematics but has basic life skills that it is IMPOSSIBLE for anything to be 999.9 percent pure - since percent is out of a hundred.

I feel sorry for anyone who chooses to follow your advice - you're clearly clueless and, what's worse, have no idea that you are clueless.



Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 02, 2012, 11:12:24 PM
I can certainly understand the "not wishing to speculate" part, although I will again point out that in buying (and recommending) gold, you're doing just that: speculating (although not necessarily with a mind towards appreciation). But I want to make sure I understand something: I'm offering to sell you the option to buy gold (even going so far as to offer it in the preferred medium of your choice) for $250 per ounce,

first you say $1600 oz, then $1500oz, then you drop it down to $10/oz, then bring it up to $100/oz, then you go to $250/oz in government issued gold no less, and expect me to find each escalation in price more enticing? WTF? I don't think you have this negotiating thing down.


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[...] which is approximately 15% of the current spot price and you're turning me down? You claim that gold is a great buy at $1,700 an ounce, that it has only upside and that you feel that a $20,000 per ounce it has only upside. And yet, you refuse to spend $500 to get gold that would cost you $3,400 on the open market, and which you think will eventually be worth $40,000.

You keep forgetting all my other stated reasons... the demand for flexibility, and liquidateability, the desire to remove counter-party risk, my requirement for ecologically friendly green gold. My aversion to government issued gold, my ability to get FREE gold added to my karatbars accounts without having to go to the open markets. and my lack of confidence in any particular timeline etc., etc.,

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You know what this tells me? It tells you that you are full of shit when you say that gold is a great buy at $1,700 per ounce.

Well if that's what it tells you, ...that's what it tells you. It doesn't make you right, it just means you don't understand me. That's ok. Not very many people do. And just because I think gold may be a great buy at $1700 oz, doesn't mean I'm going to buy it at $1700, ...especially when I can acquire at an even better price. to me, FREE is better than $1700. $1700 is a great price for those who have no other choice but to go to the open market. People like me who have karatbars accounts however, can get theirs free through a variety of mechanisms currently in place, with more soon to be in place.

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Right. It's a bet that calls your repeated assertions that gold only has upside, and the statement you quoted (and tacitly approved of) that $20,000 per ounce is a conservative estimate on the value of gold.

I never said Gold only has an upside. I know it can come down. I've seen it fall from $1920/oz last September. Scroll back through this thread and re-read the conversation Jeff had with his friend's son back in 2006. Re-read what I've said about central banks working to surpress the price. I believe in the long haul it will go up, but as to when I don't know, ...and I'm not about to make some stupid bet with you wherein one of us stands to come out on the short end, simply to prove I'm right. only a vain egotistical grandstander does that, ...and I'm not that vain or egotistical (at least I'd like to think I'm not) I told you the bet I was willing to make. One wherein neither of us loses anything. if I'm right, you end up a winner, and can buy me a bottle of Karatbars champagne to show your appreciation. If I'm wrong, you can liquidate your buillion, and get your cash back, and rub my nose in it. Nobody loses. I'm not about to take your money simply because you didn't believe what I believed at the time I believed it. And I sure as heck am not about to gamble mine on a timeline I have no confidence in. That would be just plain stupid.

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OK... so you don't want to tie up your money. I have another idea.

Oh brother, ...not another idea!?! ::)  lol.

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How about this? I will buy 2 ounces of gold in Karatbars, which I will transfer to you immediately. You don't have to put any money down. If gold hits $3,000 per ounce in the next two years, you win and you got two ounces of gold for free. If, on the other hand, gold doesn't hit $3,000 per ounce in that timeframe, then you will return the 2 ounces of gold to me along with an additional $500 in cash.

Something tells me that you won't agree even to this proposal.

For once your instincts are correct. :D

Tell you what... how about this... You exchange fiat paper currency for 3 ounces of Karatbars through our purchase plan. You keep the karatbars ...either in your Karatbars account, or take delivery (your choice), and if gold hits $3,000 per ounce in the next 3 years, you smile, thank me, say "Well look at that!", I'll let you decide at that time whether you want to send me a bottle of Karatbars champagne or not. and if it doesn't hit $3,000 within that timeframe, you're free to liquidate your karatbars by exchanging them back to cash. 

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First of all, it's unclear what "pure monetary gold" means. It's a nonsensical term. And second of all, I'll repeat again: 999.9%? You are claiming that a gold bar is 999.9% pure gold? How is it possible for something to be 9.9 times itself? Do you even understand how percentages work?

For all your "expertise" (and I use the term loosely) in gold you just showed how clueless you are. The 999.9 is the gold's millesimal fineness. It isn't a *PERCENTAGE*. It's a PER MILLE (‰) measurement. Literally, it means "out of thousands." It's basically saying that 999.9 out of 1000 parts gold.

But even if you didn't know any of that, it should be completely obvious even to someone who hasn't even taken mathematics but has basic life skills that it is IMPOSSIBLE for anything to be 999.9 percent pure - since percent is out of a hundred.

I feel sorry for anyone who chooses to follow your advice - you're clearly clueless and, what's worse, have no idea that you are clueless.



Now you're just trying to be nasty. I know how math works. We're talking about gold. 4 nines is the standard 999.9   Sheesh, you remind me of the guy the other day who kept insisting rather adamantly that there were only 28 grams to an ounce. Finally I looked at him and said "Maybe if you're talking drug weights, but we're talking gold, and gold is measured in troy ounces and there are 31.1 grams to a troy ounce. Good grief!!! Tell me Avxo, Are you always such a drama Queen! Did you go through all this drama to open up your savings account at Bank of America, or wherever you do your banking? Did you negotiate with the teller, offer her a bet? I can just see it now. "You give me $5000 today, and if this bank doesn't get robbed in the next 10 years, I'll come back and deposit $20,000 into a savings account,  ::) Is that how it went?


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on May 03, 2012, 12:05:02 AM
first you say $1600 oz, then $1500oz, then you drop it down to $10/oz, then bring it up to $100/oz, then you go to $250/oz in government issued gold no less, and expect me to find each escalation in price more enticing? WTF? I don't think you have this negotiating thing down.

Well, I kept taking the price per ounce down, to see if you'd bite - surely there must be a price at which you find gold to be an attractive investment. But so far, it doesn't look like you're interested.And yes, I am adjusting the price depending on the timeframe of the bet and my estimate of the risk I'm taking in offering this bet to you. It's fairly standard practice in the financial world - adjusting numbers to make risk pallatable. But you wouldn't know anything about that, would you?

And as for government-issued gold, you're blatantly lying and being dishonest. I offered to do this using Karatbars, which I would transfer to you.

You keep forgetting all my other stated reasons... the demand for flexibility, and liquidateability, the desire to remove counter-party risk, my requirement for ecologically friendly green gold. My aversion to government issued gold, my ability to get FREE gold added to my karatbars accounts without having to go to the open markets. and my lack of confidence in any particular timeline etc., etc.,

No, I'm not forgetting; I merely want to see what the contours of your confidence in gold and its price on the open market are. You see, you make grandiose statements about gold; you say you're buying heavily at these record high prices and that you consider it a great value. You endorse statements that conservatively estimate gold at $20,000 per ounce. But when someone challenges you, you back off, and say you lack confidence in a particular timeline.
 

Well if that's what it tells you, ...that's what it tells you. It doesn't make you right, it just means you don't understand me.

You're right. I have problems understanding irrational actions...


That's ok. Not very many people do.

I'll bet.


to me, FREE is better than $1700.

You can't acquire gold for free. But if you could, then that would be even worse for your case. Because it would mean that gold is worthless. You see, nobody gives anything of value away for free. If you're getting gold for free, it means the gold doesn't have value. And you're basing this whole "scheme" on the fact that gold has some intrinsic value.


People like me who have karatbars accounts however, can get theirs free through a variety of mechanisms currently in place, with more soon to be in place.

See above.

Tell you what... how about this... You exchange fiat paper currency for 3 ounces of Karatbars through our purchase plan. You keep the karatbars ...either in your Karatbars account, or take delivery (your choice), and if gold hits $3,000 per ounce in the next 3 years, you smile, thank me, say "Well look at that!", I'll let you decide at that time whether you want to send me a bottle of Karatbars champagne or not. and if it doesn't hit $3,000 within that timeframe, you're free to liquidate your karatbars by exchanging them back to cash.

No thanks - I don't consider gold a good investment at the current prices, either as a counter against inflation or as a vehicle for growth. I'll stick to the nice returns I'm netting from the stock market.


Now you're just trying to be nasty. I know how math works.

Apparently not - since you claim that Karatbars are 999.9% pure gold. A physical impossibility.


We're talking about gold. 4 nines is the standard 999.9

Right. And they represent millesimal fineness. Not "999.9% percent purity." You pass yourself off as an expert, but you don't know the basics!


Did you negotiate with the teller, offer her a bet?

I negotiated, yes. As a result, I ended up getting a package reserved for people who maintain much larger balances than I do; and I got all the fees waived. But I didn't offer a bet.


I can just see it now. "You give me $5000 today, and if this bank doesn't get robbed in the next 10 years, I'll come back and deposit $20,000 into a savings account,  ::) Is that how it went?

Unlike you, my bank didn't try to convince me that buying gold at what are close to record-high prices was a smart investment; indeed, the investments they did offer to sell me were investments that they themselves were willing to take a risk on - including a CDS based fund. Luckily for me, I didn't dive in that bottomless pit.

And I'd point out that my last offer was quite different - you'd get gold right away (in your preferred format) for free. And if gold went to to $3,000 per ounce within the timeframe, you'd get to keep it. If it didn't, you'd lose $500. But you aren't confident enough in the price breaching $3,000 to risk $500... that tells us all exactly how much faith you put in gold.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 07, 2012, 04:25:12 PM
::)  {sigh} I am soooo reminded of that classic line:

"What we have here, is a failure to communicate!"  :D


Well, I kept taking the price per ounce down, to see if you'd bite - surely there must be a price at which you find gold to be an attractive investment. But so far, it doesn't look like you're interested.And yes, I am adjusting the price depending on the timeframe of the bet and my estimate of the risk I'm taking in offering this bet to you. It's fairly standard practice in the financial world - adjusting numbers to make risk pallatable. But you wouldn't know anything about that, would you?

I'm not "investing" in gold. I'm acquiring it. I'm exchanging one form of currency for another. I know plenty about negotiating. I used to own an agency that represented actors, models, and various other performers. I've negotiated many a contract in my day. And your taking $10,000 from someone, while entering into a legally binding contract to deliver 1000 ounces of physical gold to them at $10/oz is a risk you certainly cannot afford to take. For one, it would be fraudulent right from the start, since you know you cannot and will not ever be able to fulfill such an agreement were gold to go upwards of $10K per oz. Pallatable? What you were proposing was biting off far more than you'd ever be able to chew. Infact, you'd choke on it! I don't enter into financial transactions providing quick cash to those who cannot, and do not possibly have a snowball's chance in hell to live up to their obligations. What do I look like to you... The FED, the IMF, or the ECB?  ;D


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And as for government-issued gold, you're blatantly lying and being dishonest. I offered to do this using Karatbars, which I would transfer to you.

You need to scroll back a bit, There were no lies involved, at least not on my end. I have no interest in Government issued gold. if i did, I would have offered to simply purchase the 2 Maple Leafs you claimed you had in hand, for $500. I'm not interested in Government issued 1 oz gold coins, and as I've stated many times, I'm not interested in being the custodian of someone else's gold, or holding gold in escrow, until clear ownership can be established. You deal with storing it securely and insuring it adequately. I'm not a bank, financial institution, or vault storage facility, ...and have no interest in becoming one. I also have no interest in running around trying to sell coins to see who will give me the highest price on them, so I can exchange that cash for karatbars, which is what I would do with Maple Leafs. I'm just a girl with a Karatbars account.

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No, I'm not forgetting; I merely want to see what the contours of your confidence in gold and its price on the open market are. You see, you make grandiose statements about gold; you say you're buying heavily at these record high prices and that you consider it a great value. You endorse statements that conservatively estimate gold at $20,000 per ounce. But when someone challenges you, you back off, and say you lack confidence in a particular timeline.

First of all, I never said I was buying heavily. I said I was acquiring gold using a dollar cost averaging approach. That's the advise Marc Faber dispenses, and I happen to believe there is merit, wisdom, & prudence in it. I'm an individual who prefers to acquire on the dips, and as I see the spot price drop from day to day, I am able to postpone acquisitions because the pricing structure of my supplier (Karatbars International) lags the market by 24 hours. If I see the spot price shoot up on Wednesday, I'm going to want to make my exchange immediately that day, because my supplier will still be quoting Tuesday's rates, and if I wait to make my acquisition on Thursday, my supplier's rates will have changed to reflect the increase that occurred on Wednesday. Hindsight is always 20/20 and I prefer an acquisition strategy that affords me such clarity of vision.

I do not "endorse" Mike Maloney's statement, however, I do not view HIS prediction as an unreasonable one. Infact, if one were to do some homework on the subject via credible sources (not loud mouth apocalyptic gun freaks who when push comes to shove can only whip out a notepad and jot down a license plate faster than a speeding bullet) with all factors taken into account, Mike's prediction can quite reasonably be considered conservative IMO.

Furthermore, you are offering me a bet, my acceptance of which you claim to be verification of my confidence in the intrinsic value of gold. "Putting my money where my noisehole is" as you so eloquently put it, but in actuality, what you are offering is a bet upon something I've clearly stated I have no confidence in at all... that being the timeline.

Good grief!!! You're like the Getbig resident 3 card monte dealer. >:(

Did you actually think I was foolish enough to NOT spot that sleight of hand?
Or was it that you believed the readers here were foolish enough not to spot it?

 
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You're right. I have problems understanding irrational actions...

There's nothing irrational about it. Not all gold is equal in my opinion. Just as not all cars are equal. eg. A Mercedes Benz and a Ford Pinto. There are added benefits that come with a mercedes that you will not find in a pinto. A Pinto has certain risks and liabilities that you will not find in a mercedes. The engineering of the mercedes is clearly far superior to that of the pinto, and as such the mercedes not only holds the road better, but also holds its value far better than a pinto. Yes, a pinto and a mercedes are both combustion automobiles, both have engines, a fuel tank, 4 tires etc., etc., but when it comes right down to it, ...what do they really have in common?

For me, not just any old gold will do. For me, the quality & purity of the gold matters ALOT. Only gold that has been refined down to a purity of 999.9 is considered currency. I don't personally own a refinery, and therefore do not have the ability to refine gold of lesser purity down to 999.9. Therefore I acquire only gold that has already been refined down to that level of purity, the only level of purity that is considered currency gold WORLDWIDE. It is quite simply, me exchanging one form of currency for another. there are too many goverment issued coins that have started rusting after a few years. And a while back, the Chinese took delivery on a shipment of gold that they drilled into. Turns out it was simply gold plated tungsten. When traced back via the serial numbers, turns out it came from the US MINT I believe, during the years when Summers was the Treasury Security under Clinton. It was quite a curious thing because .. afterall, we know that neither the US gov nor it's financiers would ever lie to or defraud anyone right? ::)

(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/kb/images/fort+tungsten.jpg)

In addition, my acquisition of Karatbars gold, does not contribute to the poisoning of the environment with toxic chemicals like mercury & cyanide into a water table that produces the food that others have to eat. The very same food that I may myself one day be eating. Take a look at the drought levels in California. They're not producing as much food as they once did. The BP Gulf of Mexico disaster, and the prolific use of Corexit as a dispersant, has done a number on the midwest farm belt. it is called conscious consumerism. I hope that clarifies.


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You can't acquire gold for free.

That is a false assumption based IMO on your lack of investigation, and your own assumptions, due to your very limited paradigmn.

Many of us with Karatbars accounts are doing just that.

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But if you could, then that would be even worse for your case. Because it would mean that gold is worthless. You see, nobody gives anything of value away for free. If you're getting gold for free, it means the gold doesn't have value. And you're basing this whole "scheme" on the fact that gold has some intrinsic value.

Au contraire. That would be the case, ONLY by your limited understanding. Because of their understanding of the deep intrinsic value of gold, Karatbars has indeed developed ingenious ways of providing account holders with this very valueable resource for FREE.

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No thanks - I don't consider gold a good investment at the current prices, either as a counter against inflation or as a vehicle for growth. I'll stick to the nice returns I'm netting from the stock market.

To each his own. I would say ...it's a free country, ...but I just remembered you live in the USA! ;D

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Apparently not - since you claim that Karatbars are 999.9% pure gold. A physical impossibility.

Now you want to nit pick at semantics? lol. OK fair enough. It is a bad habit I've developed along the way. But believe it or not, most average people understand it better when I say 999.9% pure. Tell you what... I'll make a concerted effort in the future not to do it... just for you. :-*

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Right. And they represent millesimal fineness. Not "999.9% percent purity." You pass yourself off as an expert, but you don't know the basics!

I don't pass myself off as an expert at all. I'm just a gal who owns a Karatbars account that empowers me to exchange increasingly worth-less paper currency for un-counterfeitable 24kt gold refined to a purity of 999.9. I have access to the highest quality & purity of gold available,(the only purity of gold that is considered gold currency WORLDWIDE), and is easily recognizable as such due to it's attached LMBA GDL certification. and I'm able to acquire it at the best possible price, ...some of which is FREE, and I'm able to acquire it in smaller, more affordable, transaction friendly weights allowing me maximum flexibility, now and in the future. Soon, I'll even be able to acquire even more of it simply by going about my everyday business when I shop online. The idea of getting free gold deposited into my account, just from spending cash on a sweater, a pair of shoes, a new computer, ...or even if I buy a toy for my soon to be born grandchild appeals to me. I can even avail myself of FREE storage of my gold in a non-seizure country, and/or take immediate delivery if I choose.

Infact, I just got delivery of my limited edition numerically sequenced Pope John Paul II Karatbars this morning... and they're gorgeous!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m4dBRmQdsE

They took me by surprise because I missed the email informing me they were on their way. They shipped them out on Thursday from Germany, ...and they arrived first thing Monday. One of my colleagues in Colorado had his shipped out on Friday, and got his today as well. That's pretty quick service. I don't know very many suppliers that can deliver gold from halfway around the world in 3 or 4 days to 58+ countries around the world. I don't even know of any suppliers in the USA who can deliver that quickly... even within the USA. lol. Evidently my supplier is legitimate enough that The vatican (a MAJOR financial world power) has chosen to do business with them commissioning 100,000 limited edition Karatbars, which under international law are non confiscatable, and sure to rise in value over and above the very gold content of the pieces themselves.

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I negotiated, yes. As a result, I ended up getting a package reserved for people who maintain much larger balances than I do; and I got all the fees waived. But I didn't offer a bet.

So why were you offering me a bet, ...and a sucker's bet at that?

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Unlike you, my bank didn't try to convince me that buying gold at what are close to record-high prices was a smart investment; indeed, the investments they did offer to sell me were investments that they themselves were willing to take a risk on - including a CDS based fund. Luckily for me, I didn't dive in that bottomless pit.

I'm not looking to convince you or anyone else of anything. I'm sharing information about what I'm doing, and inviting those who may want to know more to get the facts for themselves and make up their own minds,

Of course your bank wouldn't offer to sell you gold. Bankers hate gold. To a banker, gold is the enemy. they can't produce it out of thin air, and charge interest for it. Infact, back in the fall I believe, we saw editorials in both the New York Times and the Wall Street Journals, both of which were calling for a co-ordinated effort by bankers to kill gold. Haven't you figured it out by now? The bankers are a bunch of crooks.

How to Be a Crook (aka What bankers do best)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oHbwdNcHbc


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And I'd point out that my last offer was quite different - you'd get gold right away (in your preferred format) for free. And if gold went to to $3,000 per ounce within the timeframe, you'd get to keep it. If it didn't, you'd lose $500. But you aren't confident enough in the price breaching $3,000 to risk $500... that tells us all exactly how much faith you put in gold.


There you go again with the 3 card monty trick. You've switched a frequently voiced lack of confidence in a given TIMELINE, for a lack of confidence in GOLD. Stop it. >:(
 
As I've stated before, where I lack the confidence is not in gold's ability to breach $3000, but in any particular timeline for it to do so. Sheesh, what is so difficult about that for you to comprehend? I will let others try to forecast timelines. I won't go there.

A GOLD BUYER SPEAKS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQqxTdo__V0


I AM GOLD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ9-6UiI9pI

Hope That Clarifies,
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/Judi-sig50.jpg)
"The wealthy buy gold as a reservoir of eternal wealth, not as a profit-making vehicle. Gold is where the wealthy keep a portion of their assets.  They know gold will still be considered wealth when their great grand-kids inherit it." - Richard Russell, -  Editor of The Dow Theory Letters.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 08, 2012, 08:12:59 AM
Let's see what my friend, and unfortunately my competitor has to say by way of predictions.


James Turk gives his timeline on the Dollar's Collapse and Gold's role as the messenger!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0Gag8rvYF8


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 14, 2012, 08:30:38 PM
IMF to buy Gold worth $2.3 billion as credit risk increases

Last Updated : 14 May 2012 at 08:05 EDT

NEW YORK (Commodity Online): The International Monetary Fund (IMF) is planning to purchase more than $2 billion worth of gold on account of rising global risks. The IMF currently holds around 2800 tonnes of gold at various depositories

“The Fund is facing increased credit risk in light of a surge in program lending in the context of the global crisis. While the Fund has a multi-layered framework for managing credit risks, including the strength of its lending policies and its preferred creditor status, there is a need to increase the Fund’s reserves in order to help mitigate the elevated credit risks”, Bloomberg quotes a report by an IMF staff while also adding that a $2.3 billion gold purchase is in the planning.

IMF's borrowers include Eurozone countries like Greece and Portugal. Greece is IMF's biggest borrower and the nation is currently caught in a political deadlock that seems bent on denying itself the much needed bailout fund.

Countries like Spain is also officially in recession after its first quarter GDP contracted. Other nations in the Eurozone region is also showing increased signs of slow manufacturing activity and economic growth.



LOL, So despite having preferred creditor status, ...even the IMF feels the need to stock up on a little gold.

Hmmm... you don't suppose the fact that the IMF is looking to acquire over $2.3 billion, and if the dollar was slightly higher and gold priced slightly lower, that the price was manipulated slightly to allow the IMF to get $2.3 Billion worth of gold without triggering too big an upswing in gold, or the inevitable run on the dollar?. I mean, this way, their $2.3 Billion in paper gets them a whole lot more gold than they would have gotten. Nah, that would be a crazy conspiracy ::)



UPDATE:

IMF stresses need to increase reserves due to rising credit risk

*** This is an updated version. The IMF has NOT stated that it plans to buy $2.3 billion of gold as reserves. INSTEAD, the IMF has only stated that it plans to increase its reserves

NEW YORK (Commodity Online): The International Monetary Fund (IMF) is planning to increase its precautionary reserves on account of rising global risks, the organization's latest report says.

“The Fund is facing increased credit risk in light of a surge in program lending in the context of the global crisis. While the Fund has a multi-layered framework for managing credit risks, including the strength of its lending policies and its preferred creditor status, there is a need to increase the Fund’s reserves in order to help mitigate the elevated credit risks”, the IMF report states

“Directors supported an increase in the medium-term indicative target for precautionary balances to SDR 20 billion in light of the increase in total Fund credit and commitments since the last review in 2010”, the report adds

IMF's borrowers include Eurozone countries like Greece and Portugal. Greece is IMF's biggest borrower and the nation is currently caught in a political deadlock that seems bent on denying itself the much needed bailout fund.

Countries like Spain is also officially in recession after its first quarter GDP contracted. Other nations in the Eurozone region is also showing increased signs of slow manufacturing activity and economic growth.



{hee hee} From where I'm sitting, it looks like someone got their knuckles wrapped for spilling the beans, and were asked to make a hasty retraction. But that's just my opinion.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on May 14, 2012, 11:49:52 PM
You also have to remember, in a poop hits the fan scenario, karatbars account holders will still be able to conduct business, and carry on trade and commerce.

Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

How will they be able to do all these things?


You see, unlike other storage facilities, Karatbars account holders are fully insured in the event of a robbery. With every other vaulting facility I have researched, ...when you go through the fine print, you will discover they are not liable. Iin the event of a theft, ...YOU are SOL. Karatbars account holders however are fully covered, and will also retain the ability to conduct commerce, by trading fractions of a gram for goods & services with merchants all over the world.

Karatbars doesn't protect you from government agents going in, raiding the vault and confiscating your gold and their insurance won't either. But I guess your main concern now isn't the government; it's the Beagle Boys breaking in the vault... Good news, it might surpise you to know that your homeowner's insurance (especially with a rider added) could offer you protection from the theft of your gold from any vaulting facility.

And what merchants are you referring to that are accepting Karatbars? Name 10, and let's see what services your gold will buy.


Understand as well, when you buy gold coins from a dealer, those purchases are registered and documented. The US Gov knows who has them, as well as how much you bought.

Please provide a reference to support this assertion. Businesses might hold records, made in the course of their regular operations, but not specifically for gold purchases and certainly not at the behest of the U.S. Government. Such records wouldn't be available to it without a warrant anyways. Karatbars, I'm sure, maintains such records during their regular course of business as well.


If they ever decide to come and take them, ...they know exactly where to go.

And they don't know where to go with Karatbars, or any other vaulting provider? To continue my thought above, every legitimate company, regardless of where they operate from, maintains records, and those records can be subpoenaed. So, unless you're asserting that Karatbars doesn't maintain records like a legitimate company, I don't see how the authorities couldn't figure out exactly where to go.


Some may find themselves in the undesireable position of having to get rid of a bunch of lead, in order to hang into their gold and/or silver.

Authorities the world over don't take too kindly to threats like the above, even when they are speculative, nebulous and veiled.



Whereas with a Karatbars account, purchases under a certain amount, do not need to be registered, and no one is going to know you have them, ...unless you tell someone.

Noone except Karatbars (see above) and, of course, your bank, which was the medium through which funds were transfered to Karatbars to begin with.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 15, 2012, 10:23:46 AM
Objection. Assumes facts not in evidence.

You speak as if Karatbars is on trial, and you're the prosecutor.
Karatbars is not on trial. They've been conducting business for many years, are well established and trusted. Karatbars are even recommended by Bund Der Sparer a HUGE independent 3rd party European consumer Watchdog organization. The only one making assumptions is YOU.

If however Karatbars were on trial, I would think the prudent thing for any jury to do, would be to get the information for themselves. They can do that by visiting the website in my sig line, and attending one of our information webinars, ...and making up their own minds, rather than relying on someone like you who disparaged and criticized Karatbars without even knowing what they were in the first place.


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How will they be able to do all these things?

If you have questions, maybe you should attend one of our webinars to get your answers?
We have a LIVE interactive webinar taking place (in english) this afternoon at 12 noon PDT / 3PM EDT / 9 pm CET


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Karatbars doesn't protect you from government agents going in, raiding the vault and confiscating your gold and their insurance won't either. But I guess your main concern now isn't the government; it's the Beagle Boys breaking in the vault... Good news, it might surpise you to know that your homeowner's insurance (especially with a rider added) could offer you protection from the theft of your gold from any vaulting facility.

And what merchants are you referring to that are accepting Karatbars? Name 10, and let's see what services your gold will buy.

Are you suuuuuure about this?  There are distinct advantages to vertical integration (ie: owning mines, owning a refinery, and having the distribution). Perhaps you should stop guessing, and get the facts. You might be very surprised. I hear about new businesses coming on board from time to time as many of my colleagues ink these deals. I've even seen some of the contracts. If you want to call Germany and acquire a list of acceptance points, you're more than welcome to do so. I prefer to wait until ALL acceptance points are compiled, uploaded, and revealed by the company.

I do know a guy in my local area who actually used his karatbars to settle his bar tab the other night. He offered cash or karatbars. They jumped at the karatbars. hee hee

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Please provide a reference to support this assertion. Businesses might hold records, made in the course of their regular operations, but not specifically for gold purchases and certainly not at the behest of the U.S. Government.

(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/rotflmao.gif)
Please stop. I'm laughing so hard my sides are aching and I'm about to pee.

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Such records wouldn't be available to it without a warrant anyways.Karatbars, I'm sure, maintains such records during their regular course of business as well.

Warrant? in the USA? Oh puleaze! Since when do LEO need warrants in the USA these days, ...they just make requests.


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And they don't know where to go with Karatbars, or any other vaulting provider? To continue my thought above, every legitimate company, regardless of where they operate from, maintains records, and those records can be subpoenaed. So, unless you're asserting that Karatbars doesn't maintain records like a legitimate company, I don't see how the authorities couldn't figure out exactly where to go.

There is a big difference between American law, and German law. There is a reason Germans are known for precision and for being regimented and doing things strictly 'by the book'. Yes Karatbars keep records, however, strict customer privacy and confidentiality are maintained. A "request" by LEO for information on customers is not enough. Neither is "suspicion of wrongdoing" sufficient. One has to have been tried AND convicted of drug trafficking or money laundering in order for your customer records to be revealed.

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Authorities the world over don't take too kindly to threats like the above, even when they are speculative, nebulous and veiled.

What threats are you refering to? Who is making a threat? Certainly not I. I'm simply stating the facts. If someone comes to your door to illegally seize STEAL your stuff, are you simply going to roll over, or are you going to stand your ground and defend yourself? Do you have a problem with the 2nd Amendment? And which authorities were you refering to? The state officials who recently passed a law saying a homeowner had the right to use deadly force against any LEO attempting an illegal entry into their homes? Are those the authorities you were referring to? Or was the prospect of LEO breaking into your home to steal your stuff the threat you were referring to?

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Noone except Karatbars (see above) and, of course, your bank, which was the medium through which funds were transfered to Karatbars to begin with.


Are you suuuuuuure about that? Many jewellers, gold dealers, and merchants are acquiring many of our limited edition collector cards, and gift cards, at spot, marking them up and offering them for sale in their businesses. What a lovely gift to give expecting parents for their soon to arrive bundle of joy! I know my soon-to-be-born grandchild already has a few karatbars.

Did you know that parents can purchase a gold bar every month for their child's future, ...and by the time that child reaches college age, they could potentially have a nice fat golden piggy bank with which to afford a Harvard education if they wanted without any back breaking student loans?

(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/kb/images/piggy-gold5050.jpg)

The possibilities are endless....


There are forces that are bigger than us. Forces that will impact our lives whether we want them to or not. When they do impact, they will either crush us, ...or push us into success. Rather than scream about the upcoming storm, it is far better to learn how to dance in the rain! It's all just part of these growing "global currency trends" [dot] com that we see taking place around us everyday.

Those who want more information or more specifically accurate information are welcome to view the info for themselves, and make up their own minds. Like I said, we have an upcoming LIVE webinar this afternoon that you are welcome to attend as my guests

Hope That Helps,
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/kb/images/Judi-sig50.jpg)
ps: Just to clarify, while I was away from this forum the past year, I got a visit from the stork. I had daughter, an adopted one. Actually, I didn't adopt her, ...she adopted me. lol. A few weeks ago, they shocked me by announcing they were preggers!!! (http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/em/yippee.gif)


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on May 15, 2012, 12:32:19 PM
You are clearly way too taken in by these "Karatbars" to actually debate the subject rationally. You just spit out marketing propaganda and make vague statements which you take back and then subtly twist when challenged to avoid the appearance of being pinned down. Alas, your posts in this thread alone speak volumes about how full of shit you are.

Good luck with your "investment" strategy. I hope that you don't swindle too many people into buying your "999%" pure gold embedded in a plastic card.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: OzmO on May 15, 2012, 12:34:49 PM
 :D


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 15, 2012, 01:39:18 PM
Dear 24KT,

You take the tone of an expert on economics, finance, investment matters relating to gold, and seem privy to top-secret knowledge indicating the future status of the global economy.

Can you tell me about your credentials (primarily education, but experience as well if you'd like) for discussing these matters with such certainty?



Like I've stated many times in this thread... I'm just a girl with a Karatbars account.

Fortunately for me, I do have access to some of the best financial advisors, and experts in the above mentioned fields.

I have a Ph.D. from the School of Hard Knocks, ...and my eyes wide open. I don't live in the USA remember.

Anyway, ...it's been a slice. Those who want more info are free to visit my website(s) or PM me. Don't mean to cut the conversation short, but I have to get myself ready for the Las Vegas Money Show starting tomorrow. I gotta fly.... cya


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: tu_holmes on May 15, 2012, 01:40:59 PM
If you are buying gold now... You're 3 years too late.

Gold has peaked and it's just going down.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Shockwave on May 15, 2012, 01:48:51 PM
If you are buying gold now... You're 3 years too late.

Gold has peaked and it's just going down.

I think I agree with this.
Buy low, sell high.
The other way around, doesnt work so well. JMHO.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 15, 2012, 02:14:38 PM
If you are buying gold now... You're 3 years too late.

Gold has peaked and it's just going down.


Do you know how many times I've heard that? I've been hearing gold was at it's peak since it was $800/oz

It's only going down, ...until it goes back up again. Besides, what girl can't resist a good sale?


I think I agree with this.
Buy low, sell high.
The other way around, doesnt work so well. JMHO.


Who is planning on selling it?  Most Karatbars account holders I know are accumulating them using Marc Faber's advise.


Tu & Shockwave, please see my earlier post to give you more insight into my perspective.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=421212.msg6095781#msg6095781 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=421212.msg6095781#msg6095781)

Now I really have to run
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/kb/images/Golden+Nikes5050.jpg)


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on May 15, 2012, 02:16:14 PM
Like I've stated many times in this thread... I'm just a girl with a Karatbars account.

Yeah, just a girl. Just a girl who spams marketing material from a company hocking gold on a forum about bodybuilding, dispenses financial advice under the guise of regular conversations, while playing the expert and then falling back to "I'm just a girl" when challenged. While you may be a female, I don't think that girl is the word I'd associate with your behavior...


Fortunately for me, I do have access to some of the best financial advisors, and experts in the above mentioned fields.

For some definition of "best" at any rate... At least that's what an expert in the field of answering that I have to have access to told me to type.


I have a Ph.D. from the School of Hard Knocks, ...and my eyes wide open.

Aha! I knew there was a reason why the school wasn't accredited, and now I see why!


Anyway, ...it's been a slice. Those who want more info are free to visit my website(s) or PM me. Don't mean to cut the conversation short, but I have to get myself ready for the Las Vegas Money Show starting tomorrow. I gotta fly.... cya

Thanks for patronizing my city! Do let me know if you find any businesses here that accept Karatbars as payment in exchange for goods and/or services. I just can't wait to buy a $0.49 piece of gum with 1 gram of gold in a plastic card that's worth (let me check... the damn price fluctuates, so I can never know how many cards I need to carry with me)... Ah, yes, $49.66 as of right now. And, just so I know, what will I be getting my change, which works out to $49.17, in? Could I get it in pork bellies in a plastic card?


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on May 15, 2012, 03:02:34 PM
This lady is a quack.

Visit www.Imaskeevyfuckthatwan tsallyourmoneybecauseyou reagulliblepieceofshit.c om (http://www.Imaskeevyfuckthatwantsallyourmoneybecauseyou reagulliblepieceofshit.com) for legitimate advise, run by me, a guy with an optionsxpress account. Look forward to having your business.

I'll have 500 ounces of whatever you're selling sir!


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on May 15, 2012, 08:25:02 PM
Um, well, it's only 735% pure, if that's ok!

Well.. that's not as good as this other thing.. but i guess I shouldn't complain. I'll still be getting 7.35 options for every option I purchase.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: tu_holmes on May 16, 2012, 09:29:27 AM
Do you know how many times I've heard that? I've been hearing gold was at it's peak since it was $800/oz

It's only going down, ...until it goes back up again. Besides, what girl can't resist a good sale?



Who is planning on selling it?  Most Karatbars account holders I know are accumulating them using Marc Faber's advise.


Tu & Shockwave, please see my earlier post to give you more insight into my perspective.

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=421212.msg6095781#msg6095781 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=421212.msg6095781#msg6095781)

Now I really have to run
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/kb/images/Golden+Nikes5050.jpg)
You may have heard it before, but this is the real.

I have friends who have made MILLIONS buying and selling and dealing in THIS gold market... MILLIONS. I can send you to them if you really feel like you want an education.

They got in at the bottom and rode it to the top.

They are going back into retail gold sales because the price of gold is continuously dropping.

Look at the trends... It's DOWN... it's going DOWN... The Gold bubble has burst... if you didn't already buy and sell, you might as well not bother.

Gold is down over 200 dollars in the past 6 months.

The US dollar is gaining strength and that's just the facts... Dollar up... Gold down... Gold will continue to drop as the economy makes a push to the positive, which it is.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: loco on May 16, 2012, 09:58:55 AM
One thing is for sure:

This 24KT/JaguarScams/Samson123 does bring people together, against her.  Republicans and Democrats, conservatives and liberals, KKK and Black Panthers, Jews and Palestinians, all come together against this woman's bs and scams.      ;D


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 16, 2012, 07:12:27 PM
You may have heard it before, but this is the real.

I have friends who have made MILLIONS buying and selling and dealing in THIS gold market... MILLIONS. I can send you to them if you really feel like you want an education.

They got in at the bottom and rode it to the top.

They are going back into retail gold sales because the price of gold is continuously dropping.

Look at the trends... It's DOWN... it's going DOWN... The Gold bubble has burst... if you didn't already buy and sell, you might as well not bother.

Gold is down over 200 dollars in the past 6 months.

The US dollar is gaining strength and that's just the facts... Dollar up... Gold down... Gold will continue to drop as the economy makes a push to the positive, which it is.

Tu,

I too have had friends who have made millions in THIS gold market, ...and I have friends who will CONTINUE to make millions.

Gold was NEVER in a bubble. It's paper derivatives that are in the bubble, ...and that bubble will soon pop.

Yes, we are seeing very predictable events in this run up to an election, ...lets hope they can even keep it going til then. All I will say is keep your eyes on gold and see what happens.


The new global gold-backed financial system is now actively supported by 140 nations and opposed by only 28.

BRICS vs G5. Game over. Monaco Colloquium Group wins.

Brazil, Russia, India, China, South Africa and 135 other countries are now set-up to run the new asset-backed global financial system, and ditch the Old West's fiat-paper banking casino. Only the US, UK, Germany, France, Italy and the G5's shrinking group of slave states are holding out against the benevolent reforms.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 16, 2012, 07:16:24 PM
This lady is a quack.

Visit www.Imaskeevyfuckthatwan tsallyourmoneybecauseyou reagulliblepieceofshit.c om (http://www.Imaskeevyfuckthatwantsallyourmoneybecauseyou reagulliblepieceofshit.com) for legitimate advise, run by me, a guy with an optionsxpress account. Look forward to having your business.

The last time someone told me I was delusional,
I laughed so hard, ...I almost fell off my unicorn!


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Agnostic007 on May 17, 2012, 07:05:54 AM
say I buy a gram and I live in Austin Texas. Say I want to keep it at my house. What would it cost to have them send me this credit card thingy with the gram of gold on it


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 17, 2012, 09:06:17 AM
say I buy a gram and I live in Austin Texas. Say I want to keep it at my house. What would it cost to have them send me this credit card thingy with the gram of gold on it

Agnostic007,

I don't live in Austin, and I don't have a chart of shipping rates in front of me so I can't say with any certainty what it would cost for you. I will say it's not the most feasible to be buying 1 gram at a time, and having each gram immediately shipped each time. I believe the shipping price of around 14,30 euro would be the same if you had 1 gram shipped, or if you had 31 grams shipped. If you wanted to do that, you could I suppose, but I don't think it is very cost effective.

Most people I know who choose to take delivery, will first do so on a few 'demo cards', in order to examine the product for themselves or to have on hand to show others what it looks like, but will wait until they have a larger quantity to ship so that it all comes to them in 1 cost effective shipment.

The option to keep Pope John Paull II collector cards in free storage is not available at the moment. Whatever quantity of those you purchase are automatically delivered, and shipping costs are automatically calculated in depending on the quantity purchased.

If you are thinking of acquiring  1 or a few karatbars, please consult with me first so we can make sure you fill in the correct spaces. We have had some people accidently acquire karatbars for immediate delivery to them, when they intended to have them kept in storage instead, ...and vice versa.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 17, 2012, 09:07:46 AM
When gold prices start to move...they will move quickly.  Today gold is up $33 at this point from yesterday's closing price...is this the turning point?  who knows...but already it has erased the past three days of pullback...will it go lower before it "takes off"?  All we do know is that at some time soon, it has no choice but to go MUCH higher as the dollar continues it's steady loss in purchasing power.

Today could be the lowest price you will see to buy Karatbars ...with a $33 ... Ooops...it's now up $43...we know that karatbars will be priced higher tomorrow, so we "Dollar cost average" and get more today.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: w8m8 on May 17, 2012, 10:47:36 AM
say I buy a gram and I live in Austin Texas. Say I want to keep it at my house. What would it cost to have them send me this credit card thingy with the gram of gold on it

seriously ? .. I think indulging this "topic" needs a thread if it's own


on the V board

Agnostic007,

If you are thinking of acquiring  1 or a few karatbars, please consult with me first so we can make sure you fill in the correct spaces.




quel surprise .. it's not advantageous to you for anyone to "buy" into this scheme without contacting you .. is it ?

you can bend everything to fit your message .. damn shame you need this exposure on Getbig to make it worth your while .. I'd think between those gas caps sales and this new grand ADventure you would have BETTER things to do with your time .. being rich and all I can't quite understand you WANTING to be part of a group of people you deem as beneath you .. oh wait .. this is all because you want to make us rich ?




http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=1897197



Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on May 17, 2012, 10:33:34 PM
If you are thinking of acquiring  1 or a few karatbars, please consult with me first so we can make sure you fill in the correct spaces.

I thought you were "just a girl", and not giving into advice to people... now you're all about helping people "fill in the correct spaces." Is there a commission for your consulting services?


We have had some people accidently acquire karatbars for immediate delivery to them, when they intended to have them kept in storage instead, ...and vice versa.

"We" ehh? So much for being "just a girl with a gold bar account". Clearly you're involved with the day-to-day operations of this scheme. I can't say I'm surprised. The writing was really on the wall, between your incessant hocking, your penchant for repetition of the name of the product (with the requisite ™ sign of course) and your verbatim quotes of questionable material written by someone who moonlights in marketing.

I'm sure the operation will fold any day now, alas,  the relentless spamming won't stop. You'll just move on to bigger and better things. Perhaps peddling colonics equipment – strictly as a girl who enjoys colonics, of course! ::)


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 18, 2012, 01:36:05 AM
I thought you were "just a girl", and not giving into advice to people...

I AM "just a girl with a karatbars account", and I do not dispense investment, financial planning or tax advise. I'm just sharing what I'm doing, and the many benefits and advantages I experience by using this particular supplier, and how others can do the same.

Quote
now you're all about helping people "fill in the correct spaces." Is there a commission for your consulting services?

I have ALWAYS been about helping people, ...whether you, or anyone else realizes it or not makes no difference.

As for wanting to make sure he fills in the correct spaces? YOU'RE DARN RIGHT I DO! LOL. The absolute VERY LAST thing I'd want to see occur is him inadvertently make the wrong kind of a purchase, and come in here screaming about how he bought gold and never got delivery. NO THANK YOU. Like the trolls here wouldn't have a field day with that one? Puleaze!  I don't charge a commission for "those kinds" of consulting services. I help people with their karatbars accounts whether there is any financial compensation for me or not.

Understand, karatbars is not an MLM company. It is a private gold savings plan - by invitation only.  One has the option to be an affiliate (if one chooses) and be rewarded by the company for doing something they would be doing anyway, that is telling others about a great solution they've found. we do that every day. Only difference is some people are rewarded for it, while others are not.


Quote

"We" ehh? So much for being "just a girl with a gold bar account". Clearly you're involved with the day-to-day operations of this scheme.
(http://www.jaguarenterprises.net/images/rotflmao.gif)
I WISH I were involved in the day-to-day operations. In most every company I've been involved with, I've been "in-the-loop" so to speak, and have ALWAYS been privy to high level talks & discussions taking place, I've always been able to present my ideas at the table, personally, or by proxy. This time around, I'm not at the table, ...and it's driving me craaaaazy. There are about 5 major leaders who regularly have discussions with Harald the CEO, ...and unfortunately for me, ...these guys know how to keep secrets. A few of us have gotten good at prying a few secrets out of them, ...but sometimes they just won't budge. infact, I was joking with our top affiliate in North America last week that if she kept teasing me, and not telling me what was coming, I'd stop talking to her for 6 months. Of course she just laughed. And I was able to make good on my threat for about 2 days, ...but no, I'm not involved in the day-to-day operations of the company. I've had many ideas which I've thrown out there, only to discover that they had already thought of it, and it was currently in the works. When that happens repeatedly, after a while, you just sit back with full complete confidence, knowing they've really thought of everything. Occasionally Harald will keep some things close to his chest and not even reveal it to them, ...then he'll spring on us, and blow us all away with his incredible foresight and forward planning. But no, I'm not involved in the day to day operations. I'm not even in on the conference calls with Harald in Germany.... YET. Until then, I'm stuck trying to pry secrets out of those who ARE involved in the day-to-day operations. I regularly try to bribe them with baked goods, ...yummy home baked chocolate chip cookies... but so far no takers.  :D

Quote
I can't say I'm surprised. The writing was really on the wall, between your incessant hocking, your penchant for repetition of the name of the product (with the requisite ™ sign of course) and your verbatim quotes of questionable material written by someone who moonlights in marketing.

I'm sure the operation will fold any day now, alas,  the relentless spamming won't stop. You'll just move on to bigger and better things. Perhaps peddling colonics equipment – strictly as a girl who enjoys colonics, of course! ::)

Right about now, you're sounding like a guy who could use a good colonic... or two. lol


Understand what Karatbars is - and - What it is not

The World’s First and Only Private Monetary System - Not backed by Gold – it is Gold

Real Money – Sound Money - A Sound Money System

Karatbars International needs more people that are willing and able to aid, support and assist others.
Have a passion and purpose to help others avoid pain.

If we don’t stand for something, we’ll fall for anything.
Being a core Karatbars Affiliate means waking up each morning with a burning passion and purpose.

Who can I help today? Most people don't know what we know.

Most of the time.......
  • People get hurt because of what they don't know or aren't taught.
  • People perish because of lack of knowledge.
  • People are working their tails off trying to maintain stability.
  • Most people do not have the time to do the "little things" that successful people do.
  • Financial education and personal development often get overlooked and put off until later.

Meanwhile, day after day...
  • Our governments are getting deeper & deeper in debt.
  • They borrow more and more money.
  • They are spending more and keep printing more and more money (out of thin air) to monetize their spending.
  • They are kicking the can down the road, ...without a whole lot of road left IMO

For every action... there is an equal and opposite reaction.

We all know there are consequences for our actions.
Why do our World leaders not know this simple fact?

It is all about getting good information to people.
Our plan has the power to help them, their families and their friends.

Remember October of 2008?

Financial Crisis - Stock Market crashed
Banking system came within hours of a complete failure
The World’s Governments had to intervene
People were caught flatfooted
Trillions of dollars changed hands in a matter of a few hours

Was October of 2008 a warning sign of what is coming again?
Many Financial experts believe that October of 2008 will happen again.
We have been warned that the next time will be more sudden and more devastating.

We are not here to scare people. Good information is NEVER a disadvantage. Fear can be overcome with knowledge.

If people don't know what to do, or what to believe, history shows that they will do nothing, except glide along with good intentions. The road leading to failure and destruction is paved by those that had good intentions.

People will be, either better or worse financially, in the future based on decisions they make today.
We simply show people the very best solution we've found to preserve money.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on May 18, 2012, 11:17:30 AM
I AM "just a girl with a karatbars account", and I do not dispense investment, financial planning or tax advise. I'm just sharing what I'm doing, and the many benefits and advantages I experience by using this particular supplier, and how others can do the same.

You do nothing but dispense advice - you just pretend it's not advice. As for being "just a girl with a karatbars account" - cut the bullshit. Not even 2 paragraphs down you admit that's not the case, when you say you're "rewarded" for telling others. This stinks of multi-level marketing.


As for wanting to make sure he fills in the correct spaces? YOU'RE DARN RIGHT I DO! LOL. The absolute VERY LAST thing I'd want to see occur is him inadvertently make the wrong kind of a purchase, and come in here screaming about how he bought gold and never got delivery. NO THANK YOU. Like the trolls here wouldn't have a field day with that one? Puleaze!  I don't charge a commission for "those kinds" of consulting services. I help people with their karatbars accounts whether there is any financial compensation for me or not.

Why do you care if he comes in here screaming? How does that affect the value of your "investment" directly? After all, even if Karatbars went away, your "investment" is safe, right? So, again, why is it any concern of yours (beyond getting compensated) what a prospective customer puts on the form? Unless the customer isn't a customer but a mark?


Understand, karatbars is not an MLM company. It is a private gold savings plan - by invitation only.

If it walks like a duck, it quacks like a duck and it looks like a duck, I'd say it's a safe bet to say it's a duck.


One has the option to be an affiliate (if one chooses) and be rewarded by the company for doing something they would be doing anyway, that is telling others about a great solution they've found. we do that every day. Only difference is some people are rewarded for it, while others are not.

QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! See above!


I WISH I were involved in the day-to-day operations. In most every company I've been involved with, I've been "in-the-loop" so to speak, and have ALWAYS been privy to high level talks & discussions taking place, I've always been able to present my ideas at the table, personally, or by proxy. This time around, I'm not at the table, ...and it's driving me craaaaazy. There are about 5 major leaders who regularly have discussions with Harald the CEO, ...and unfortunately for me, ...these guys know how to keep secrets. A few of us have gotten good at prying a few secrets out of them, ...but sometimes they just won't budge.

Typical MLM setup... Don't worry, you'll get the announcement soon enough, when the leaders are ready to tell you what to do next.


infact, I was joking with our top affiliate in North America last week that if she kept teasing me, and not telling me what was coming, I'd stop talking to her for 6 months.

...


I've had many ideas which I've thrown out there, only to discover that they had already thought of it, and it was currently in the works. When that happens repeatedly, after a while, you just sit back with full complete confidence, knowing they've really thought of everything.

LOL! this is getting more and more hilarious by the second.


Occasionally Harald will keep some things close to his chest and not even reveal it to them, ...then he'll spring on us, and blow us all away with his incredible foresight and forward planning.

I take it back... this isn't just any MLM. It's a fucking cult!



Understand what Karatbars is - and - What it is not

What it is: Plastic cards with flakes of gold sold at quite a ridiculous premium over spot prices?

What it's not: A good investment.

How am I doing?


The World’s First and Only Private Monetary System - Not backed by Gold – it is Gold

Even if it were such a monetary system (and it lacks a few properties that are typically associated with a monetary system, even if you ignore the fact that it's not actually widely accepted as a currency), it wouldn't be the first such system. Stop lying.


Karatbars International needs more people that are willing and able to aid, support and assist others.

Can't they afford to hire people to aid, support and assist others?


If we don’t stand for something, we’ll fall for anything.

Also "GO TEAM!" and other such platitudes.


Being a core Karatbars Affiliate means waking up each morning with a burning passion and purpose.

LOL @ waking up with a purpose... As for the burning passion, are you sure that's not a urinary tract infection?


Who can I help today? Most people don't know what we know.

The typical line of those with secret knowledge... Bernie Madoff used that line too, you know.


For every action... there is an equal and opposite reaction.

And gravity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between two bodies. So what?


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: loco on May 18, 2012, 11:42:31 AM

I take it back... this isn't just any MLM. It's a fucking cult!


LOL   ;D


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: w8m8 on May 18, 2012, 11:44:12 AM
W8-- I have never seen such an impolite, abusive and well thought out post on this website ( especially by a female). If you are in fact a woman, I decree that we begin private negotiations for an online relationship. All courting will be done publicly on the political forum and privately through PM's.

Thanks.

lol .. no offense George .. but Will-n-Booty (hopefully) will be the last of any courtships being exhibited on Getbig if anyone has any sense  :)



Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Internet Tough Guy on May 18, 2012, 12:45:21 PM
lol .. no offense George .. but Will-n-Booty (hopefully) will be the last of any courtships being exhibited on Getbig if anyone has any sense  :)



I would suggest that "24KT" "Benny Blanco" and "Samson" could have a public love triangle, but they're all the same pathetic person.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 18, 2012, 12:51:06 PM

you are a salesperson who has full intention of spreading your pitch here regardless of how many despise it

your signature is also a spam signal for google rankings ... Ron has spoken out that he even knows you aren't the knowledge base you like to proclaim yourself as

this is just another gas pill situation .. you must know how you clutter up a decent board for no more than your own selfish self centered agenda .. you will twist any topic to work a salespitch in ... so I always wonder why .. why do you do it ? is it that imperative for your success ? is it a requirement that you post sales ads all over ? is this the only forum you bombard ?

you call anyone who disagrees a troll .. if anyone dares confront you , you smash the report button .. so why not just blog on your own site so you can plagiarise and hawk your wares till your hearts content ?


save your piss poor retort saying "ignore" my posts .. save your stupid bold headlines .. save your asinine childlike innocent ACT .. you were gone for a good while .. emphasis on good .. why do you return to only cement the fact that for years everyone has been right about you .. you live in the past ( MANY YEARS AGO ) attempting to impress people with some lowly "acting" career that was less memorable than a hamburger commercial .. name dropping like anyone believes you or any of the mentioned folks would care to recall you

snake oil .. gas pills .. bah .. now a new private form of currency only special folks can acquire ... really can you just stop ? or is this an addiction ?

you must have better things to do that can be a positive experience and bring you some joy .. this spamming can't be what your vision was when you thought of what you would be doing at this late stage in life


My my, my, ...such an angry response. You always know you're touching on the truth when the thugs start coming out attempting a group beat down.

If you don't like what I post in my thread, don't click on it. There is no law that says you have to read my thread.

But if you are going to participate in it, why not address the actual subject of the thread, instead of trying to get personal?

...or are you simply doing your job Catherine?

How much of that $4.6 million that Jamie Dimon of JP Morgan gave to the New York cops did you get?
Or were you just paid in doughnuts?


Keiser Report: Mafia vs OWS (ft. Geralde Celente) (E283)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0YeKkkQIxA


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 18, 2012, 01:30:48 PM
You do nothing but dispense advice - you just pretend it's not advice. As for being "just a girl with a karatbars account" - cut the bullshit. Not even 2 paragraphs down you admit that's not the case, when you say you're "rewarded" for telling others. This stinks of multi-level marketing.

Karatbars affiliates & customers don't dispense financial advise. We simply share with others the solution we're using, and we let others decide for themselves if it may be a possible solution for them as well.

Karatbars is NOT an MLM company. I'm also rewarded by my phone company if I refer a friend. That doesn't make them an MLM company either.

Quote
Why do you care if he comes in here screaming? How does that affect the value of your "investment" directly? After all, even if Karatbars went away, your "investment" is safe, right? So, again, why is it any concern of yours (beyond getting compensated) what a prospective customer puts on the form? Unless the customer isn't a customer but a mark?

What do you mean what do I care? If he made the wrong type of purchase, No, it wouldn't affect my savings, but that's irrelevant. It would affect his experience with the company; a company that could be a solution for him, as well as those he thought enough about to share with. If he wanted gold for delivery, but instead ordered gold for storage, do you think he'd be happy? By the same token, if he ordered gold for storage, and ended up dishing out a delivery fee he hadn't intended on, then had to worry about how to safeguard it, would he be happy? Of course not.

Quote
If it walks like a duck, it quacks like a duck and it looks like a duck, I'd say it's a safe bet to say it's a duck.


QUACK! QUACK! QUACK! See above!


Typical MLM setup... Don't worry, you'll get the announcement soon enough, when the leaders are ready to tell you what to do next.
...


LOL! this is getting more and more hilarious by the second.

I take it back... this isn't just any MLM. It's a fucking cult!

Why so adamant to trash a company or a product you admittedly know very little about?
Are you paid to steer people away from possible solutions? Or are you simply testing out your next stand-up gig?

Quote
What it is: Plastic cards with flakes of gold sold at quite a ridiculous premium over spot prices?

What it's not: A good investment.

How am I doing?

very poorly.


Quote
Even if it were such a monetary system (and it lacks a few properties that are typically associated with a monetary system, even if you ignore the fact that it's not actually widely accepted as a currency), it wouldn't be the first such system. Stop lying.


Can't they afford to hire people to aid, support and assist others?

Why would they do that? ...spend exhorbitant amounts on newspaper or magazine ads that don't get seen and are tossed out with the paper daily? Or waste money on commercials that only get tivo'd out or skipped entirely and never seen? Why not save all that otherwise wasted money, and use it to reward actual account holders? That's how an efficient company works.

Quote
Also "GO TEAM!" and other such platitudes.


LOL @ waking up with a purpose... As for the burning passion, are you sure that's not a urinary tract infection?

OK, I'll admit, that did make me laugh. For a moment there, you actually reminded me of Keith.

Quote
The typical line of those with secret knowledge... Bernie Madoff used that line too, you know.


And gravity is inversely proportional to the square of the distance between two bodies. So what?

Well it's pretty clear to me that you DON'T know what we know, ...because if you did, you sure wouldn't be attempting such a disservice to the readers here, You wouldn't be trying to confuse them or dissuade them, and you certainly wouldn't be attacking. So either you don't know (at best) or... you enjoy your life as a troll. If things keep going the way they are in the USA, you might just find yourself a nice home under a bridge somewhere.


But back to the subject at hand. What solution do you have for the tanking paper money system?


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on May 18, 2012, 02:38:08 PM
Karatbars affiliates & customers don't dispense financial advise. We simply share with others the solution we're using, and we let others decide for themselves if it may be a possible solution for them as well.

Are you kidding? You continually dispense financial advice - and pretty bad one at that. You've advocated that people on here (and not just in general, either) ought to purchase gold, without considering their current economic situation, their portfolio, any existing investments they might already have and ultimately their goals in investing. And, mind you, you're not just saying they ought to purchase just any gold; they ought to purchase Karatbars specifically, which are somehow inherently better.


Karatbars is NOT an MLM company. I'm also rewarded by my phone company if I refer a friend. That doesn't make them an MLM company either.

The phone company provides a service, and isn't sending you out there to make sales on their behalf.


What do you mean what do I care? If he made the wrong type of purchase, No, it wouldn't affect my savings, but that's irrelevant. It would affect his experience with the company; a company that could be a solution for him, as well as those he thought enough about to share with. If he wanted gold for delivery, but instead ordered gold for storage, do you think he'd be happy? By the same token, if he ordered gold for storage, and ended up dishing out a delivery fee he hadn't intended on, then had to worry about how to safeguard it, would he be happy? Of course not.

Why would you care if he's happy? And what do you care about his experience with a third party - the company in this case? His experience doesn't affect you in any way.


Why so adamant to trash a company or a product you admittedly know very little about?
Are you paid to steer people away from possible solutions? Or are you simply testing out your next stand-up gig?

I'm adamant that people need to understand exactly what it is you're selling. And it's not a "solution" unless the problem is: "how can you make a bad investment?"


very poorly.

It seems pretty accurate to me. How much does a 1 gram gold bar cost to purchase right now, for physical delivery but excluding shipping?


Why would they do that? ...spend exhorbitant amounts on newspaper or magazine ads that don't get seen and are tossed out with the paper daily? Or waste money on commercials that only get tivo'd out or skipped entirely and never seen? Why not save all that otherwise wasted money, and use it to reward actual account holders? That's how an efficient company works.

An efficient company wants to market itself to get new customers. Having unpaid hacks running around spamming Internet fora on their behalf hardly seems like something a reputable company would want to do or even condone. And yet, here you are...



Well it's pretty clear to me that you DON'T know what we know, ...because if you did, you sure wouldn't be attempting such a disservice to the readers here, You wouldn't be trying to confuse them or dissuade them, and you certainly wouldn't be attacking. So either you don't know (at best) or... you enjoy your life as a troll. If things keep going the way they are in the USA, you might just find yourself a nice home under a bridge somewhere.

I own quite a nice home already - free and clear. Conveniently, there's a bridge less than 10 minutes away, so if push comes to shove, I won't have to change my zip code.


But back to the subject at hand. What solution do you have for the tanking paper money system?

The situation isn't quite as dramatic as you (and the people whose articles you copy-paste) describe it to be. And if it were, I doubt the solution is flakes of gold encased in plastic.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Skeletor on May 18, 2012, 05:38:07 PM

LOL @ waking up with a purpose... As for the burning passion, are you sure that's not a urinary tract infection?

Haha, this is "golden" (pardon the pun) ;)


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on May 18, 2012, 05:54:17 PM
For all you betting types out there, Peter Grandich has put an offer on the table,
...and he's even willing to make a prediction on a timeline as well.

Peter Grandich New York Hard Assets - May 15, 2012

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEHJZnWnjhs


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on September 18, 2012, 06:18:35 AM
Jeff Berwick of DollarVigilante.com - Gold Confiscation & Gold-Silver


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5K5fhtPs2U

Given the backdrop, it appears to me like someone has "internationalized" himself,
...either that or he's a network marketer.  :D


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Internet Tough Guy on September 20, 2012, 05:11:58 PM
Given the backdrop, it appears to me like someone has "internationalized" himself,
...either that or he's a network marketer.  :D

FFS it must suck to be you.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 20, 2012, 05:25:51 PM
www.providentmetals.com



Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on September 26, 2012, 08:52:16 AM
Karatbars (http://www.karatbarbullion.com) produces more affordable, transaction friendly weights of pure 999.9 24 kt LBMA gold that cannot be counterfeited. LBMA certified gold is recognized by all banks & financial institution around the world as Good Delivery Gold, acceptable for payment in settlement of debt.

Those wanting to make a purchase of one of the customer Gold packages or an affiliate VIP package, can contact me for a coupon code that will give them 100€ off

www.karatbarbullionshop. com (http://www.karatbarbullionshop.com)


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on September 26, 2012, 09:01:50 AM

QE3: The Funny Money Team Has Officially Crossed the Rubicon

By Nathan Lewis | FORBES.COM ECONOMICS | 9/24/2012 @ 5:01PM

(http://blogs-images.forbes.com/nathanlewis/files/2012/09/300x2002.jpg)

Now they’ve gone and done it.

Humans’ natural pattern-recognition habits usually work something like this: the first time is a fluke. The second time is a coincidence. The third time is a pattern or trend. At that point, people begin to accept the twice-confirmed event as a new part of their environment. They may also tend to extrapolate the new trend or pattern into the indefinite future.

This, arguably, was one purpose of the Federal Reserve’s newest “QE3”: as Paul Krugman puts it, the promise to be “credibly irresponsible” for years ahead. According to the Keynesians’ Bizarro World logic, this is a good thing.

What happens next? The investing mainstream, which has mostly acted as if the dollar is stable in value even as it has been declining for a decade due to the Fed’s “easy money” stance, may begin to see things in a new way.

We may begin to see a decline in dollar demand, with inflationary consequences. This was the main reason for the inflation of the 1970s, not an expansion in supply. The dollar’s monetary base – the total number of dollars in existence – was $68.361 billion in August 1971, the month the dollar left the Bretton Woods gold standard parity at $35/oz. In January 1980, the month the dollar hit its nadir around $850/oz. and Paul Volcker decided that enough was enough, the monetary base was $132.831 billion, an increase of 93%. This came nowhere close to the 2,328% increase in the dollar price of gold (i.e. a decline of the dollar by 96%). During the 1990s, when the dollar actually rose in value, the monetary base increased by 121%, reflecting economic expansion for the most part.

If we start to see this kind of 1970s-style revulsion in demand, on top of the Fed’s eager increase in supply and promises of zero percent rates for years ahead, things could get really interesting.

The funny-money guys have begun the process of destroying themselves. This is what has always happened eventually. The temptation of using the printing press to solve every sort of economic difficulty – here, it is supposedly a cure for unemployment; in Europe it is a way to avoid sovereign default — eventually becomes an incurable addiction.

Ideally, as I chronicled in my book Gold: the Once and Future Money, this results in a political migration towards the Classical ideal of a currency that is as stable and reliable as possible, and free of human intervention. In practice, the best real-world way to achieve this goal is a gold standard system.

Already this has begun to happen, illustrated by the Republican Party’s suggestion of a commission to study the gold standard alternative. That rather mild step is appropriate for this time. We still have five or ten years, before replacing the imploding fiat currency system becomes a political imperative. At that point there will be no “debate” with the Keynesians, because it is hard to have a debate with someone who has already been tarred and feathered.

Before that happy day, there is a lot of work to do. First, we have to become very clear about what we are trying to accomplish, and why. We want a currency that is stable in value, a universal constant of commerce, and a neutral medium of business, not a fiat abstraction whose value depends on Ben Bernanke’s latest press conference. In practice, the best way to achieve this goal is a gold standard system.

Those who adhere to the principles of stable money gain a lot of benefits. In the middle of the 20th century, the United States was the world’s premier defender of the gold standard system. The former champion, Britain, disappointed its fans by devaluing in 1931, 1949 and 1967. Not surprisingly, the United States also became the world’s financial center, had the world’s dominant international currency, became the center of a gentle global empire, and had a middle class that reached a level of prosperity never seen before (or since).

When Britain was the world’s premier champion of the gold standard system, during the 19th century (the U.S. was an emerging market then), it too became the world’s financial center, had the world’s dominant international currency, had an empire that spanned the globe, and became a hotbed of industrial innovation and capitalist wealth-creation.

But perhaps a better example of the power of sound money is provided by Holland. In the 17th century, while Britain was still in the Mercantilist age of unreliable currencies, the Dutch had fully embraced the principle of stable, gold-linked money. Amsterdam became the world’s financial center, and the Dutch guilder was the world’s dominant international currency. Holland became a hotbed of industry and world commerce. The middle class became wealthy enough to finance an artist class whose works fill museums today.

This little nation of two million, on some of the worst land in Europe, eventually gained its own global empire, which included all or part of today’s: Indonesia, Brazil, Australia, India, Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen, Bangladesh, Oman, Burma, Sri Lanka, Taiwan, Thailand, Malaysia, Cambodia, Vietnam, China, Japan, South Africa, Suriname, Guyana, Colombia, Chile, and Ghana.

And, let’s not forget, an outpost at the mouth of the Hudson River, then known as “New Amsterdam.”

The gold standard works.

Unemployment can still be a problem, but you don’t try to solve it with funny money manipulation. Instead, a combination of economy-positive policies such as tax reform or regulatory reform, plus welfare as necessary to relieve the immediate suffering, is the preferred strategy. Fundamental problems get fundamental solutions, not a temporary jolt of currency meth.

There are many potential ways to design a gold standard system, some of which require no gold reserves at all. Gold is simply “the standard,” a basis of measurement. We can navigate by Polaris, the North Star, and get excellent results without having to actually own the star itself. Historically, however, gold standard systems have had the most longevity when the currency issuers are subject to the requirement of “redeemability,” to deliver gold bullion on demand. We should have a long and intelligent discussion about the pros and cons of the various ways to run a proper gold standard system, which will also help to dispel a lot of the fatuous nonsense on the topic that is floating around out there.

I think the funny money team has crossed the monetary Rubicon. No turning back for them now. The old era is past; the wheels of history have begun to turn. The new era, if it is to be a happy era, will also be an era where the Classical ideal of a currency as stable and neutral as possible becomes prominent. We now have to build that monetary system in our minds, in all of its exacting and meticulous detail, so that we can wheel it out, shiny and perfect like a new Mercedes, when the time comes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/nathanlewis/2012/09/24/qe3-the-funny-money-team-has-officially-crossed-the-rubicon/


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on September 26, 2012, 09:11:39 AM
Fed Floods Market With Fake Gold, The Latest Hurdle For Gold Investors

By: Dominique de Kevelioc de Bailleul:

Tungsten-filled 10-ounce gold bars suddenly have appeared at some of the finest dealers of Manhattan.

No doubt, beginner investors who seek to purchase real money, a real asset, the ultimate safety, have had to overcome decades of carefully orchestrated financial propaganda from the Fed, Washington and academia.  ‘They’ say, the dollar is good, and gold is just a rock, a silly anachronism and an asset useful only to persecuted WWII-vintage Jews.

Then, having cleared the propaganda hurdle, the new class of awakened investors have had to somehow research the gold market long enough to maybe run into articles which discuss the accusations of fraud riddled throughout the paper gold aspect of the market and the manipulation scheme perpetrated by JP Morgan.

What appeared to be an easy way out of the dollar, through a click of a mouse and a few bucks commission on the Scottrade website, may turn out to be more dangerous than holding a debauching currency.

Enter, stage right, comes Jeff Christian, who assures investors that the paper market is on the up-and-up.  The debate between GATA and Jeff Christian kept some investors out of the line to take delivery of real metal, forestalling a bit longer the inevitable and coming stampede into the gold market.

Was GATA an organization spewing ‘conspiracy theories about a gold cartel?

Christian, a suspected shill for the gold cartel, argued that GATA was seeing things, imagining dark-hat bankers ripping off the public with un-backed gold ETFs and bogus short sales of the metal in the futures market.

The case of Andrew Maguire and the CFTC investigation into JP Morgan proves beyond a reasonable doubt that Christian is either a liar, an incompetent or a shill for the Fed.

Christian leaves the stage and CFTC’s Bart Chilton enters.  Chilton, the corn-fed, boy-next-door kind of guy, who grows up to become a heroic fighter of corruption in the financial markets, is the perfect character for the next act to Christian’s ‘Gaslight’ performance.

And the tangible results of the so-called Eliot Ness of Wall Street?  Nothing.  Nearly three years after the CFTC hearings and investigation into JP Morgan, Chilton comes up with zip, furthering the con of the U.S. dollar.  Chilton is now quiet.  He’s done his job for the Fed.  He may leave now.

Now, the poor, confused investor hears that the Fed’s QE-to-infinity policy will further debase the U.S. dollar.  Even some of the ‘big boys’ have come out with recommendations to buy gold.  PIMCO’s Bill Gross and Bridgewater Associate’s Ray Dalio have gone public recently to counter Warren Buffett, Charlie Munger and Bill Gates, the con-job trio billionaire shills for the Fed.

Is it time to buy some physical?  Even the big boys think it’s a good idea.

But wait, the circulation of phony gold bars hits the news, and the companies selling the bars are, of course, the most reputable walk-in retailers of New York.

And the timing of news of the tungsten-filled gold bars couldn’t come at a most fortuitous time for the Fed.  The most recent announcement of QE3-to-infinity policy from Bernanke & Company is a downright admission that the U.S. economy is not responding to previous QEs, unprecedented levels of ‘currency swaps’ and a reflation of the over-the-counter derivatives market.

The Fed needs more help pushing the mob away from gold, because there isn’t enough gold to back all the paper promises saturated throughout the banking system.

“We’re getting closer and closer to the big disclosure that the banksters have stolen the gold, and now they’re flooding the market with fake gold,” TruNews radio host Rick Wiles tells his listening audience of Sept. 24.

Is Wiles spreading another ‘conspiracy theory’?  Let’s ask Christian what he thinks.  Let’s see if Chilton will recommend to the U.S. State Department that it shut down the Chinese company that’s been alleged to have made the phony bars.  Let’s see if Warren Buffett has anything to say.


see video at http://www.myfoxny.com/story/19578206/fake-gold-bars-turn-up-in-manhattan (http://www.myfoxny.com/story/19578206/fake-gold-bars-turn-up-in-manhattan)



If you are buying gold, make sure what you buy is non-counterfeitable, and empowers you with maximum flexibility


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Soul Crusher on September 26, 2012, 09:50:08 AM
http://www.cnbc.com/id/49180320


sick 


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Internet Tough Guy on October 02, 2012, 02:29:43 PM
QE3: The Funny Money Team Has Officially Crossed the Rubicon

Yet another "last straw" from Chicken Little The Spam Queen. 

Not a single callback from any of your "tons" of super-successful friends to help you turn your pathetic life around? 


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Agnostic007 on October 03, 2012, 06:55:01 AM
"If you are buying gold, make sure what you buy is non-counterfeitable, and empowers you with maximum flexibility"

But... if the article is true and some of the most reputable dealers are selling fake gold, other than smelting it myself, how in the world can I KNOW it is real gold? At least with the dollar bill, I have the information I need to make sure it's not fake. 


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: tu_holmes on October 03, 2012, 10:23:39 AM
"If you are buying gold, make sure what you buy is non-counterfeitable, and empowers you with maximum flexibility"

But... if the article is true and some of the most reputable dealers are selling fake gold, other than smelting it myself, how in the world can I KNOW it is real gold? At least with the dollar bill, I have the information I need to make sure it's not fake. 

You can buy it from Jag-Offs company and then you're GUARANTEED they will be selling you real gold.

::)


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on October 03, 2012, 12:02:23 PM
You can buy it from Jag-Offs company and then you're GUARANTEED they will be selling you real gold.

::)

Oh, well... if I'm GUARANTEED then it's a different story. I'll buy 100 plastic card thingies! At last, I'm becoming a crafty consumer!


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Skeletor on October 03, 2012, 12:18:44 PM
Oh, well... if I'm GUARANTEED then it's a different story. I'll buy 100 plastic card thingies! At last, I'm becoming a crafty consumer!

Ironclad, sorry goldclad 999.9% guarantee.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on October 03, 2012, 05:21:16 PM
Why buy gold when I can buy a vat of bacteria  (http://science.slashdot.org/story/12/10/02/2246242/super-bacteria-create-gold) that precipitate metallic gold from a solution of gold (III) tetrachloride?


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on October 06, 2012, 11:38:01 PM
Why buy gold when I can buy a vat of bacteria  (http://science.slashdot.org/story/12/10/02/2246242/super-bacteria-create-gold) that precipitate metallic gold from a solution of gold (III) tetrachloride?


So you go buy a vat of bacteria, ...I'll stick with acquiring as many karatbars as I can.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Internet Tough Guy on October 07, 2012, 11:27:53 AM

So you go buy a vat of bacteria, ...I'll stick with acquiring as many karatbars as I can.

Then you should be too busy to spam this board to death.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on October 11, 2012, 03:00:58 PM
"If you are buying gold, make sure what you buy is non-counterfeitable, and empowers you with maximum flexibility"

But... if the article is true and some of the most reputable dealers are selling fake gold, other than smelting it myself, how in the world can I KNOW it is real gold? At least with the dollar bill, I have the information I need to make sure it's not fake.  

Make sure that the gold you get is produced by an LBMA accredited refinery on their Good Delivery List.

Does the gold that you acquire, or propose to acquire have security features that would instantly alert you as to whether or not the gold has been tampered with?

Is it even economically feasible for a counterfeiter to tamper with the gold? 1 gram gold bars produced by Karatbars are tamper-proof. In addition to the many security features, it quite literally would cost a counterfeiter more money to produce a fake gold bar, than it would to simply produce a genuine 24KT one.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on October 11, 2012, 03:02:11 PM
Lost Confidence Can’t Be Restored & Gold’s Final Move


Today a legend in the business surprised King World News when he said, “Gold is going to keep going up until the US dollar is finished.  So the reign of the US dollar will come to an end.”  Keith Barron, who consults with major gold companies around the world, and is responsible for one of the largest gold discoveries in the last quarter century, also said, “At that point the global collapse will be in full-swing.”

On the heels of another major country being downgraded yesterday, Barron also warned, “The real problem here is that you can’t restore confidence at this point in the cycle.”  Here is what he had to say:  “Europe is getting worse all the time.  The IMF is now saying that European banks may have to sell off an additional $4.5 trillion of assets.  At the same time, they are trying to push various governments for increased austerity measures, and it’s not working.  Either the countries are simply not implementing the increased austerity or they are not implementing them to the extent that the troika wants.”

Keith Barron continues:

“Some countries are refusing, and in addition they are having more civil unrest.  The unemployment rate is now a staggering 25% in Greece.  It has reached a mind boggling 52% unemployment for those under the age of 25 in Spain.  These are truly incredible numbers, and as I said, they are fomenting very intense civil unrest.

This is going to lead to the death of democracy if something is not done....

“The only way to paper over the cracks here is to throw money at it.  So we see the European Central Bank doing that, and this is just going to be the wave of the future.  Europeans are also worried about increasing capital controls, and right now there are large movements of capital going into physical gold.  This is what people are doing to preserve their wealth in Europe, moving into gold.
 
At some point these policies are going to become tremendously inflationary and you are going to see interest rates begin to rise quite precipitously.  At that point the global collapse will be in full-swing.  The real problem here is that you can’t restore confidence at this point in the cycle.  At the end of the day, the only way to get out of this type of situation is to repudiate the debt.”

Barron also added: “Gold is going to keep going up until the US dollar is finished.  So the reign of the US dollar will come to an end, and we will see a new currency.  But in the meantime, you could see gold go to $3,000, $5,000, $7,000, $10,000, who knows?  It’s not really an appreciation in the price of gold, it’s a drop in the currency.

This is something people don’t really understand.  Gold is going up because the global fiat currencies are becoming worth less and less all the time.  If you look at a chart of the US dollar over the last century, the Fed has virtually destroyed the US dollar already, and this will just accelerate going forward.

So all we need to see here is for major pension funds to begin to move into gold, and you will see some real fireworks because the availability of physical gold is already tight in this market.  Eventually there will be a mass movement into gold during this destructive cycle, and the daily movements in the price of gold will literally shock people, even the most veteran of the goldbugs.

Putting aside the consolidation in gold, we don’t yet know what will push the price of gold through $1,800 and eventually to new all-time highs, but what we do know is that the intensity of this global crisis will only continue to escalate and it’s absolutely critical that investors protect themselves and their families from what is coming.”


http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/10/11_Lost_Confidence_Cant_Be_Restored_%26_Golds_Final_Move.html (http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2012/10/11_Lost_Confidence_Cant_Be_Restored_%26_Golds_Final_Move.html)


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Internet Tough Guy on October 13, 2012, 02:07:09 AM
Enough of this; let's get to the interesting stuff. Do you pleasure yourself with karatbars and/or gold-encrusted dildos?

If not, she surely knows "tons" or "hundreds" of succesful people that do.   ::)


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on October 13, 2012, 11:16:34 AM
Karatbars Gold Pricing Facts
Understanding the different asset classes when it comes to gold


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHPEuyF0FTg



Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on November 12, 2012, 08:36:23 AM
Ron Paul Sound Currency Message is Resonating With Worldwide Leaders, Including China
by Barbara Shoff

(http://media1.policymic.com/site/articles/16690/photo.jpg)

While doing the research for this article, it appeared the leaders of China have been listening to Ron Paul while most leaders in the U.S. continue to mock him.

Though history proves fiat currencies fail, central banks, including the Federal Reserve are bound and determined to convince the world that this time history won’t repeat itself.

So, if you were China and you owned $1.2 trillion in U.S. bills, notes, and bonds, what would you do to hedge your bets and cover your fanny? Exactly what China is doing: buying gold. In fact, they are buying so much; it appears they are preparing for a world beyond the fiat dollar. A future world in which the renminbi backed by gold could become the dominant reserve currency.

State-owned China National, CEO Sun Zhaoxue commented on the acquisition of African Barrick Gold Ltd, saying, “As gold is a currency in nature, no matter if it’s for state economic security or for the acceleration of renminbi internationalization, increasing the gold reserve should be one of the key strategies of China.” So, in spite of the fact China is the world's largest producer of gold, it appears important enough for China to still acquire interest in mines in other countries.

And Zhaoxue sounds suspiciously like Ron Paul when he says, “Gold is currency.”

But then we hear Ben Bernanke, chairman of the Federal Reserve Bank, telling students at George Washington University how impractical a gold backed currency is, “I mean, what you have to do to have a gold standard is you have to go to South Africa or some place and dig up tons of gold and move it to New York.”

So while Bernanke is teaching students it’s too much of a problem to mine and ship gold to the U.S. to fill our void, the Chinese are buying up the mines — in Africa.

China is mining gold, buying gold, buying gold mines and encouraging its citizens to buy gold. They are even minting gold coins in various sizes to make it easier for citizens to accumulate. Maybe we need to take another look at Zhaoxue’s statement. “…for the acceleration of renminbi internationalization…” And right now the renminbi is fiat like all other currencies, right? 

Reports in the past have told us it would be years before the dollars’ place, as the world reserve currency would end. At one time economists speculated if the dollar were ever replaced, it would be by the euro. Not anymore. Following the world wide financial collapse in 2008, and the stresses by such countries as Greece, the euro continues to teeter. The world watches for the impact of more Euro zone bailouts; it’s not looking good. All eyes right now are on Spain, as a not “if” but “when” bailout.

And then there is the fiscal cliff Ron Paul has warned about in the U.S. Failure by our nation’s leaders to reign in spending on domestic social issues, tighten tax loop-holes that encourage off-shore banking and investments by the rich (Hello Romney), an out of control military industrial complex pushing U.S. imperialism all over the world, and of course the Bush era tax cuts that are getting ready to expire and the now loss of the petrodollar. Add to that, the never ending Federal Reserve’s QEs. How much more can the fiat paper dollar withstand, even if stacked a billion thick?

Many people just don’t realize how aggressive the competition against the greenback has become in just the last two years by the red renminbi of China. The remnimbi is positioning itself to be viewed as a real global reserve currency alternative. China is not one to make public most of their financial plans, but let’s look at some of the stories that have made it into the mainstream media:

Russia and China in 2010 decided to do away with debt exchanges using the U.S. dollar and instead trade directly in ruble and renminbi.

In December 2011, Japan and China announced they would be promoting trades directly with each other and sidestepping the dollar. Last year's trades were about $340 billion. At the same time China announced a direct $11 billion currency swap with Thailand. 

In January 2012, Wen Jiabao, the Chinese Premier, signed a $5.5 billion currency swap with the United Arab Emirates.

Then at the end of January there is an article from Forbes answering the question “Why is China buying so much gold?” Forbes simple answer; a substitute against capital flight. What? The Chinese Premier, Wen Jiabao is the one flying all over the world setting up all these currency swaps.

In late March 2012, according to Zeebiz, “The five major emerging economies of BRICS — Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa — are set to inject greater economic momentum into their grouping by signing two pacts for promoting intra-BRICS trade at the fourth summit of their leaders…” And, “The pacts are expected to scale up intra-BRICS trade which has been growing at the rate of 28% over the last few years, but at $230 billion, remains much below the potential of the five economic power houses.”

In March 2012, we learned Dubai-based Emirates NBD the largest bank is selling dim sum bonds, debt securities issued in the Chinese yuan.

Again in March 2012, China and Australia sign a $30+ billion swap agreement. According to the Reserve Bank of Australia, “The main purposes of the swap agreement are to support trade and investment between Australia and China, particularly in local-currency terms, and to strengthen bilateral financial cooperation. The agreement reflects the increasing opportunities available to settle trade between the two countries in Chinese renminbi and to make RMB-denominated investments.”

In April, we learn in a report from Forbes, that China will be avoiding U.S. financial sanctions against Iran by making oil purchases not only bartering goods, but also using gold.

So, again gold is money. And gold is as a petrocurrency as opposed to the petrodollar that may lead to more petrowars.

In late June 2012, China and Chile agreed to strengthen their ties in a strategic partnership and double their trade in three years. The leaders of the two nations, Jiabao and Pinera, also announced the completion of negotiations on investment-related supplementary deals to a bilateral free trade agreement.

Also in late June of 2012, China and Brazil agreed to a $30 billion currency swap.

Hold on a minute, what did Ron Paul say about the U.S. establishing trade around the world but keeping our noses out of other nations business? Sounds like the leader of China was listening to Ron Paul. According to Paul’s critics, what we are witnessing from Jiabao is isolationism in action. Of course, the enlightened know this isn’t so. In fact, Jiabao is a stellar example of Paul’s non-interventionist stance and is promoting trade with other countries.

Then in August 2012, Germany and China announced they are going to be doing a lot of their trade in the Euro and renminbi. The article leaves out any mention of bypassing the dollar. Maybe by now it should just be understood.

China encourages its citizens to accumulate gold. Gold coins are minted in China in varying sizes easing the way for the people to accumulate gold. China is the largest producer of gold in the world. And now as China increases trade around the world using renminbi, and it is also beginning to use gold as currency and in exchange for oil.

Ron Paul has repeatedly said the U.S. should consider gold a currency and if we are to continue printing paper dollars we need to return to a gold standard, so the dollar will have value. The Federal Reserve Bank, Obama, Romney and their supporters brush away Paul's comments as though his warnings were gnats.

Ron Paul alerts us of a day when the dollar has no value. He warns of a day this country topples over a fiscal cliff. 

On that day, don’t be surprised to look up and see the renminbi--- backed by gold emerging as the world’s reserve currency.


http://www.policymic.com/articles/16690/ron-paul-sound-currency-message-is-resonating-with-worldwide-leaders-including-china



as an aside, I'm often reminded of that biblical reference; the one about the stone the builders threw away becoming the cornerstone. {sigh}


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: Internet Tough Guy on November 13, 2012, 01:18:16 AM
as an aside, I'm often reminded of that biblical reference; the one about the stone the builders threw away becoming the cornerstone. {sigh}

That reference is a prophecy of the coming Messiah, Jesus Christ.

Trying to make it somehow relate to your pathetic scam is ludicrous.

Go back to defending terrorists and pedophiles; somehow you're less obnoxious that way.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on November 05, 2013, 08:49:41 PM
In Other Global Currency Trends .. :D

NOVEMBER 05, 2013
Escape From The Dollar
An Interview with Paul Craig Roberts
by MIKE WHITNEY


Paul Craig Roberts thinks the Fed has backed itself into a corner. A rise in interest rates would strengthen the dollar, give the dollar new life as world reserve currency, and halt the movement into gold, but a rise in rates would collapse the bond and stock markets and reduce the value of derivatives on the banks’ balance sheets. I asked Dr. Roberts if the Fed would sacrifice the dollar in order to save the banks and what the effect would be on Washington’s power viv-a-vis the rest of the world. His answers to these questions suggest that Washington’s days of financial hegemony and world leadership are numbered.

Mike Whitney: Is the US dollar at risk of losing its position as reserve currency? How would this loss affect US leadership and other countries?

Paul Craig Roberts: In a way the dollar has already lost its reserve currency status, but this development has not yet been officially realized; nor has it hit the currency markets. Consider that the BRICS (Brazil, Russia, India, China, and South Africa) have announced their intention to abandon the use of the US dollar for the settlement of trade imbalances between themselves, instead settling their accounts in their own currencies. (There is now a website, the BRICSPOST, that reports on the developing relations between the five large countries.) There are also reports that Australia and China and Japan and China are going to settle their trade accounts without recourse to the dollar.

Different explanations are given. The BRICS imply that they are tired of US financial hegemony and have concerns about the dollar’s stability in view of Washington’s excessive issuance of new debt and new money to finance it. China, Australia, and Japan have cited the avoidance of transaction fees associated with exchanging their currencies first into US dollars and then into the other currencies. They say it is a cost-saving step to reduce transaction costs. This may be diplomatic cover for discarding the US dollar.

The October 2013 US government partial shutdown and (exaggerated) debt default threat resulted in the unprecedented currency swap agreements between the Chinese central bank and the European central bank and between the Chinese central bank and the Bank of England. The reason given for these currency swaps was necessary precaution against dollar disruption. In other words, US instability was seen as a threat to the international payments system. The dollar’s role of reserve currency is not compatible with the view that precautions must be taken against the dollar’s possible failure or disruption. China’s call for “a de-Americanized world” is a clear sign of growing impatience with Washington’s irresponsibility.

To summarize, there has been a change in attitudes toward the US dollar and acceptance of US financial hegemony. As the October deficit and debt ceiling crisis has not been resolved, merely moved to January/February, 2014, a repeat of the October impasse would further erode confidence in the dollar.

Regardless, most countries have come to the conclusion that not only has the US abused the reserve currency role, but also the power of Washington to impose its will and to act outside of law stems from its financial hegemony and that this financial power is more difficult to resist than Washington’s military power.

As the world, including US allies, made clear by standing up to Washington and blocking Washington’s military attack on Syria, Washington’s days of unchallenged hegemony are over. From China, Russia, Europe, and South America voices are rising against Washington’s lawlessness and recklessness. This changed attitude toward the US will break up the system of dollar imperialism.

Mike Whitney: How is the Federal Reserve’s Quantitative Easing impacting the dollar and financial instruments?

Paul Craig Roberts: The Federal Reserve’s policy of creating large amounts of new money in order to support the balance sheets of “banks too big to fail” and to finance continuing large budget deficits is another factor undermining the dollar’s reserve currency role. The liquidity that the Federal Reserve has pumped into the financial system has created enormous bubbles in bond and stock markets. US bond prices are so high as to be incompatible with the Federal Reserve’s balance sheet and massive creation of new dollars.

Moreover, central banks and some investors have realized that the Federal Reserve is locked into the policy of supporting bond prices. If the Federal Reserve ceases to support bond prices, interest rates will rise, the prices of debt-related derivatives on the banks’ balance sheets will fall, and the stock and bond markets would collapse. Therefore, a tapering off of quantitative easing risks a financial panic.

On the other hand, continuing the policy of supporting bond prices further erodes confidence in the US dollar. Vast amounts of dollars and dollar-denominated financial instruments are held all over the world. Holders of dollars are watching the Federal Reserve dilute their holdings by creating 1,000 billion new dollars per year. The natural result of this experience is to lighten up on dollar holdings and to look for different ways in which to hold reserves.

The Federal Reserve can print money with which to purchase bonds, but it cannot print foreign currencies with which to purchase dollars. As concerns over the dollar rise, the dollar’s exchange value will fall as more dollars are sold in currency markets. As the US is import-dependent, this will translate into higher domestic prices. Rising inflation will further spook dollar holders.

According to recent reports, China and Japan have together reduced their holdings of US Treasuries by some $40 billion. This is not a large sum compared to the size of the market, but it is a change from continuing accumulation. In the past, Washington has been able to count on China and Japan recycling their trade surpluses with the US into US Treasury debt. If foreign willingness to acquire Treasury debt declines and the federal budget deficit does not, the Federal Reserve would have to increase quantitative easing, thus putting even more pressure on the dollar.

In other words, in order to avoid an immediate crisis, the Federal Reserve has to continue a policy that will produce a crisis down the road. It is either a financial crisis now or a dollar crisis later.

Eventually, the Federal Reserve’s hand will be forced. As the dollar’s exchange value declines, so will the value of dollar-denominated financial instruments regardless of how many bonds the Federal Reserve purchases.

Mike Whitney: How is China likely to respond to America’s changing economic position?

Paul Craig Roberts: When I met with Chinese policymakers in 2006, I advised them that there was a limit to how long they could rely on the US consumer market as jobs offshoring was destroying it. I pointed out that China’s large population provided policymakers with the potential for an enormous economy. They replied that the one-child policy, which had been necessary in early years to keep population from outrunning social infrastructure, was blocking the development of a domestic consumer economy. As peasant farmers no longer could rely on multiple children for old age insurance, they hoarded their earnings in order to provide for their old age. Chinese policymakers said that they intended to develop a social security system that would give the population confidence to spend more of their earnings. I do not know to what extent China has moved in this direction.

Since 2006 the Chinese government has let the yuan appreciate 25% or 33%, depending on the choice of base. The increase in the currency’s exchange value has not hurt exports or the economy. Moreover, the US no longer manufactures many of the items for which it is dependent on China, and other developing countries do not have the combination of the technology that US corporations have given to China and China’s large excess supply of labor. So it is unlikely that China faces any threat to its development except for US policies designed to cut China off from resources, such as the new US military focus on the Pacific announced by the Obama regime.

China’s large dollar holdings are the consequence of the technological prowess that China acquired from Western corporations offshoring jobs to China. What is important to China is the technology and business know-how, which they have now acquired. The paper wealth represented by dollar holdings is not the important factor.

China could destabilize the US dollar by converting its holdings into dollar currency and dumping the dollars into the exchange markets. The Federal Reserve would not be able to arrange currency swaps with other countries large enough to buy up the dumped dollars, and the dollar’s exchange value would fall. Such an action could be a Chinese response to military encirclement by Washington.

In the absence of a confrontation, the Chinese government is more likely to gradually convert its dollars into gold, other currencies and real assets such as oil and mineral deposits and food businesses.

Quantitative easing is rapidly increasing the supply of dollars, but as other countries move to other arrangements for settling their trade imbalances, the demand for dollars is not rising with the supply. Thus, the dollar’s price must fall. Whether the fall is slow over time or sudden due to an unanticipated Black Swan event remains to be seen.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: avxo on November 05, 2013, 09:20:35 PM
Is it even economically feasible for a counterfeiter to tamper with the gold? 1 gram gold bars produced by Karatbars are tamper-proof. In addition to the many security features, it quite literally would cost a counterfeiter more money to produce a fake gold bar, than it would to simply produce a genuine 24KT one.

1 gram gold "bars" produced by Karatbars aren't tamper-proof. We've been through this before. At best they're tamper-evident. Assuming, of course, anyone will bother tampering with a novelty credit-card sized piece of plastic.


Title: Re: Death Blow to the US Dollar
Post by: 24KT on November 05, 2013, 11:20:05 PM
1 gram gold "bars" produced by Karatbars aren't tamper-proof. We've been through this before. At best they're tamper-evident. Assuming, of course, anyone will bother tampering with a novelty credit-card sized piece of plastic.

You're responding to a statement made well over a year ago.
Allow me to re-phrase that. They are tamper- resistant, tamper-evident whatever...
A genuine Karatbars is easily verifiable due to the various security features present.
If someone were to attempt to tamper with one, it would be readily apparent.

ps: This thread is not about Karatbars. It's about the doomed US Federal Reserve Note.