Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: animal1991 on April 04, 2012, 11:44:07 PM
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My thoughts on this is that no matter what kinda diet you follow as a NATTY, you are still gonna lose LBM and look like a twink in the end with low bodyfat. No matter if you follow a high carb - moderate protein, keto, carb cycling etc, its all the same in the end.
I mean if you diet as natural and set a caloric intake and just get in a minimum of about 1g/kg of protein and your essential vitamins, minerals and fats and fill in the rest of your caloric intake with healthy foods you are GTG.
Mike Mentzer always preached to follow a balanced diet and said the perfect ratio is 65C - 25P - 10F, and all you have to do is to adjust your caloric intake. And yes I know he used hormones but its still a good way to eat in my opinion.
Of course this all changes if you're hormonized etc.
Any truth to this?
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yes if your a cock strong 330 benching natural when you start dieting you will be lucky to hit 280 when your done fact thats why perma bulking is so popular you get so weak you say fuck this and eat.
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my thoughts on losing fat and gaining muscle after years to to think about it is this if your base is 3000 calories to stay the same your diet should change very little no matter what the drugs,supplements is what you use to produce the effect
bulking 3000-3500
cutting 2700 and add epherdrine,t3 ,tren what ever let the drugs take you down not starvation
if natural your best plan is lower your calories a hair under maintence and lose around 1 -1.5 lbs a week and take the long hall 2lb+ will melt you like butter. You will lose 8-10 lbs on your compound lifts in a bad weak.
for the 3000 k base maybe 2750 and add ephedrine for a natural ephedrine prolly damn near has anabolic or anti catabolic properties if you will. Prolly ephedrine or clen is all a natural would want to use imo. fuck t3 and these other compounds unless really fat.
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after dieting i look like a skinny white boy and everybody at work ask me if i stopped working out. Also my body gets into the weight loss state and i just keep losing more weight despite eating normal again
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You can get lean but small natty. The ratio in how the body uses different parts of the body such as bone, fat, muscle for energy is completely different natural to steroids. You will get leanish natty but never hold much mass as the body takes everything in a more balanced ratio where as when you have steroids your body greatly reduces the amounts of energy that come from muscles, bones etc.
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people make to drastic changes . Change the diet very little just enough to produce and effect. This means taking out a glass of milk or soemthing.
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No such thing as natty dieting ... you'll loose everything
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Ask the true adonis. I believe he got down to 155lbs, 6% bodyfat but this at morning height of 6 ft ( evening height of 5'11) .
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Ask the true adonis. I believe he got down to 155lbs, 6% bodyfat but this at morning height of 6 ft ( evening height of 5'11) .
True adonis never replies to any of my messages
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No such thing as natty dieting ... you'll loose everything
this, so this year when i decided imma cut i added in 200mg of tren and 350 prop, at this current point im 10kgs more muscle than last year
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@Chev
Please stop posting this shit on the threads I make. It really isn't funny anymore and if you can't get over it I think you have a fucking problem dude.
I'm here for advice not for your shit comments so if you don't have anything USEFULL to say then YOU must GTFO.
You're fucking irritating and your like a fucking two year old with a fucking obsession. WTF dude. Get a life. Its the fucking internet.
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Welcome to the thunderdome bitch.
Get your toys and head back home :-*
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There's a difference between a joke and fucking stalking a guy for every thread he makes and commenting shit on it.
I know the thunderdome is "harsh", but its the fucking internet so who gives a fuck.
But if I post here for advice, I have the right to ask for it, just like anyone else has. And I have the right to ask you to stop posting shit that is irrelevant. Its getting old and just irritating everybody. It isn't funny at all.
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Here's me dieted down to 168 lbs no hormones with a little help from t3 and clen .. eating too little and doing too much cardio.
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Dude you CAN diet naturally but dont expect to be nowhere NEAR somebody who is doing the same on juice. Thats just logic. Lots of protein, carb cycling, low fat and some good omega fats, lots of veggies and if possible do TREN....oh wait
I do not agree
You do not need a LOT of protein
you DO need lots of good fats
Not much need for carbs .. cycling them? Please ..
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agree, even on cycle you wont need much protein when dieting, i and many other have done this. i have been dieting on 110-130g prot ED and i havent lost any muscle... gona do a experiment starting monday, gona try upping my dose back to 2g and see if i can grow back to my former size on only 2300 kcal and 120-140g prot... as it takes 12-15g more protein ED to gain 60-75g off LBM ED... then you wont need much protein even on gear... and 1 pund off muscle if im not mistaken or it was a kg cant remember in my head only takes 600 kcal not 7000 kcal as fat...
I eat only as much protein as i need, i eat carbs because i like it and it gives me energy under my workouts, i get my fat from fish as i love salmon.... only thing i will keep my eye on is my kcal and that i get more than 120g prot... rest i will just eat what i like to eat... good old Norwegian food... i will take weight, bf test and other mesurments and before and after pics, i may post them up when i finished.....
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Yup.
I dieted down (without supps) last summer. I lost fat.... but lost all the little muscle I had as well :-\
Horrible. Being natural sucks if you want to look like you train.
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I lose almost no strength, if any, and look more muscular due to being more defined.
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Yup.
I dieted down (without supps) last summer. I lost fat.... but lost all the little muscle I had as well :-\
Horrible. Being natural sucks if you want to look like you train.
you will probably find you didnt lose that much muscle and that you were holding more fat than you originally thought.
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did this last summer as well. t3 at 50mcg, eating like a bird and lots of cardio
yes i leaned down...but felt/looked small :-[
this time im doing things right....hello tren/prop ;)
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my thoughts on losing fat and gaining muscle after years to to think about it is this if your base is 3000 calories to stay the same your diet should change very little no matter what the drugs,supplements is what you use to produce the effect
bulking 3000-3500
cutting 2700 and add epherdrine,t3 ,tren what ever let the drugs take you down not starvation
if natural your best plan is lower your calories a hair under maintence and lose around 1 -1.5 lbs a week and take the long hall 2lb+ will melt you like butter. You will lose 8-10 lbs on your compound lifts in a bad weak.
for the 3000 k base maybe 2750 and add ephedrine for a natural ephedrine prolly damn near has anabolic or anti catabolic properties if you will. Prolly ephedrine or clen is all a natural would want to use imo. fuck t3 and these other compounds unless really fat.
"Bulking" = poor excuse to become fat and eat shit when you know you shouldn't.
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You should read this site
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss
It explains the pretty simple, bullshit-less and obvious world of dieting. There really isnt mucho to it.
Also, if you eat 1 g of protein per lb of bw AND intenend to eat 65% of calories from carbs Im pretty sure numbers wont add up
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IMO these are the mistakes most guys make when trying to diet without Hormonas :
* Too much cardio (no more than once a day, with one day complete rest a week) - use the diet rather.
* Adding cardio and dropping calories at the same time - too big a deficit
* Getting too fat in the off season ( as a natural you should see your top 4 abs at minimum in the off season, preferably all 6)
* too much HIIT (No more than 2-3 a week) taxes legs too much drains CNS
* Too many days, too much time spent in the gym, too many sets and with high reps & light weight, chasing the pump. - 3-4 days max, 40 min, High intensity, low volume, heavy weight, compound moves mostly, no isolation moves.
Your recovery is compromised when dieting..it does not make any sense to add more than is needed. Only enough to signal to your body to hold on to it's muscle (maintain it) that is all u need.
* Not dieting long enough (16 weeks minimum) 25 weeks is better.
* Using t3 (bad move)
* Not getting enough sleep (at least 8 hours)
* Using a Keto diet less than 100g carbs a day (Not the best IMO)
* Too much protein, too low carb...carbs will spare more muscle than protein. As far as protein more than what you need is a mistake (3g per kg BW) better off using those Kcal from carbs.
* Not enough EFA
* No re-feeds / diet breaks
* Not staying hydrated -especially around workouts
* Cutting out salt.
* losing more than a pound a week
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IMO these are the mistakes most guys when trying to diet without Hormonas :
* Too much cardio (no more than once a day, with one day complete rest a week)
* Adding cardio and dropping calories (too big a deficit) at the same time.
* Getting too fat in the off season ( as a natural you should see your top 4 abs at minimum in the off season, preferably all 6)
I have said this for many years. Guys who 'bulk' are so damn delusional that they gained a shit ton of size when in reality they just got fat
* too much HIIT (No more than 2-3 a week) taxes legs too much drains CNS
Just once I want someone to explain this whole 'CNS' drain/burn out/depletion bro-science to me.
* Too many sets and with high reps, chasing the pump. - 3-4 days max, 40 min, High intensity, low volume, heavy weight, compound moves mostly, no isolation moves.
Dont really agree that you need heavy weight to diet. Plenty of guys who like the higher rep stuff for legs and arms...and they looked phenomenal on stage
* Not dieting long enough (16 weeks minimum) 25 weeks is better.
Only needed if you get 'huge' ::) off season by bulking. Stay leaner, and you will only need the 10 - 12
* Using t3 (bad move)
This contradicts your list title. If you use T3, you ARE using hormones.
* Not getting enough sleep (at least 8 hours)
* Using a Keto diet less than 100g carbs a day (Not the best IMO)
Anyone that says they can go ketotic on less than 100gms of carbs is FOS.
* Too much protein, too low carb...carbs will spare more muscle than protein. As far as protein more than what you need is a mistake (3g per kg BW) better off using those Kcal from carbs.
Carbs are overrated IMO. We have essential fats, essential amino acids, do we have essential carbs? Nope. Use enough carbs to 'spare' muscle...thats it
* Not enough EFA
* No re-feeds / diet breaks
Spot on
* Not staying hydrated -especially around workouts
* Cutting out salt.
* losing more than a pound a week
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IMO these are the mistakes most guys when trying to diet without Hormonas :
* Too much cardio (no more than once a day, with one day complete rest a week) - use the diet rather.
* Adding cardio and dropping calories at the same time - too big a deficit
* Getting too fat in the off season ( as a natural you should see your top 4 abs at minimum in the off season, preferably all 6)
* too much HIIT (No more than 2-3 a week) taxes legs too much drains CNS
* Too many days, too much time spent in the gym, too many sets and with high reps & light weight, chasing the pump. - 3-4 days max, 40 min, High intensity, low volume, heavy weight, compound moves mostly, no isolation moves.
Your recovery is compromised when dieting..it does not make any sense to add more than is needed. Only enough to signal to your body to hold on to it's muscle (maintain it) that is all u need.
* Not dieting long enough (16 weeks minimum) 25 weeks is better.
* Using t3 (bad move)
* Not getting enough sleep (at least 8 hours)
* Using a Keto diet less than 100g carbs a day (Not the best IMO)
* Too much protein, too low carb...carbs will spare more muscle than protein. As far as protein more than what you need is a mistake (3g per kg BW) better off using those Kcal from carbs.
* Not enough EFA
* No re-feeds / diet breaks
* Not staying hydrated -especially around workouts
* Cutting out salt.
* losing more than a pound a week
did you use ECA when you hit contest condition?
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Just once I want someone to explain this whole 'CNS' drain/burn out/depletion bro-science to me.
it definilty happened to me after a show once, I was doing 14 HIIT cardios a week + 7 weight training sessions.. I was fucked! Insomnia, irritable, tired all the time
Dont really agree that you need heavy weight to diet. Plenty of guys who like the higher rep stuff for legs and arms...and they looked phenomenal on stage
Maybe some guys do... but not it's nessisary, I'm talking about what I think is optimum training for dieting...Off season maybe..IMO that type of training does not benefit you when you diet...gives you a nice pump that's all.
Only needed if you get 'huge' off season by bulking. Stay leaner, and you will only need the 10 - 12
Depends if you want to win, IMO the longer you diet the better you look, i'm almost ready at 10 weeks out, 4 weeks out I'm ready to go on stage. No doubt The longer I diet the better I am. The best I looked was when I dieted for 30 weeks
This contradicts your list title. If you use T3, you ARE using hormones.
I was refering to the post by "Cleanest Natural"
Anyone that says they can go ketotic on less than 100gms of carbs is FOS.
You don't need to go 0- 50g carbs to go into ketosis...When dieting, training hard I definitely burn up more than 100g of carbs, easy! So I personally go into Ketosis at anything under 100g-120g a day... tested it with Keto sticks
Carbs are overrated IMO. We have essential fats, essential amino acids, do we have essential carbs? Nope. Use enough carbs to 'spare' muscle...that’s it
Agree to disagree, IMO Keto guys look like flat, leather shit...sounds like you've been brainwashed by palumbo :D
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did you use ECA when you hit contest condition?
Yes 2-3 x a day for 16 weeks before the show. More so to blunt my hunger and give me "energy" to train.
I think it burned me out though...felt tired and depressed when I stopped :-\ which really sucked.I havn't used it since. I tried Clen once but I didn't like how I felt. Never used T3 before, but seen it strip muscle off people who diet without anything else.
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Yes 2-3 x a day for 16 weeks before the show. More so to blunt my hunger and give me "energy" to train.
I think it burned me out though...felt tired and depresed when I stopped, which really sucked.I havn't used it since. I tried Clen once but I didn't like how I felt. Never used T3 before.
IMO, it's "magic" lies in it's ability to dry you out
Recently I tried to get shredded and the best that I could do was a "wet" 8%, but with ECA I got to a "semi-dry" 6%
There were two major differences from this time til the time before. The first time, when I hit a "semi-dry" 6% I took ECA and did daily hard aerobic training ie running 2 miles in about 13-14 min. And this most recent time, when I hit a "wet" 8% I just cut cals
I used to be a competitive runner, cross-country and track and field, and I NEVER got that dry, from just hard running, so therefore I believe that the ECA was the key to my dry condition
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There is no exact "truth" about natural dieting. Everyone loses/keeps different amounts of muscle based on so many factors. I competed in two physique shows in 2011. Never having used any Anabolic's or Pro hormones I thought I would surely disappear. Im 5'9'' and I competed at 165 the first time and 170 , full and dry.Too add to this I used clen for 1 week the first diet down, and for 3 weeks the second , even with that and eating very very low cardio I seemed to maintain muscle . However my legs did lose size due to the stairmaster.
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Eat food.
Too fat = eat less
Too skinny = eat more.
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Eat food.
Too fat = eat less
Too skinny = eat more.
well.....im fuc.king glad someone has cleared this up. Someone get this guy a medal!
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well.....im fuc.king glad someone has cleared this up. Someone get this guy a medal!
Damn straight.
Eat a healthy diet and monitor calories disregarding macro ratios.
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Just once I want someone to explain this whole 'CNS' drain/burn out/depletion bro-science to me.
it definilty happened to me after a show once, I was doing 14 HIIT cardios a week + 7 weight training sessions.. I was fucked! Insomnia, irritable, tired all the time
But how was that 'CNS burn out'? It seems like that is just a buzz word/phrase people use....the insomnia can be linked to a very primal mechanism the brain uses to say: "Hey dipshit, dont sleep...get some damn food"
Dont really agree that you need heavy weight to diet. Plenty of guys who like the higher rep stuff for legs and arms...and they looked phenomenal on stage
Maybe some guys do... but not it's nessisary, I'm talking about what I think is optimum training for dieting...Off season maybe..IMO that type of training does not benefit you when you diet...gives you a nice pump that's all.
Only needed if you get 'huge' off season by bulking. Stay leaner, and you will only need the 10 - 12
Depends if you want to win, IMO the longer you diet the better you look, i'm almost ready at 10 weeks out, 4 weeks out I'm ready to go on stage. No doubt The longer I diet the better I am. The best I looked was when I dieted for 30 weeks
I agree with the longer the diet....but if someone doesnt get above 10%, I dont think that 20+ weeks is necessary. As far as the comment "if you want to win"...a lot of people dont understand the mindset necessary to 'win' a show...no matter what diet/training they do. They have probably been brainwashed by their friends "Bro you will win that show easily"....how many times have you seen that?
This contradicts your list title. If you use T3, you ARE using hormones.
I was refering to the post by "Cleanest Natural"
Got it
Anyone that says they can go ketotic on less than 100gms of carbs is FOS.
You don't need to go 0- 50g carbs to go into ketosis...When dieting, training hard I definitely burn up more than 100g of carbs, easy! So I personally go into Ketosis at anything under 100g-120g a day... tested it with Keto sticks
Keto sticks are not always reliable....I was under 30gms and RARELY tested in the trace amount of ketones
Carbs are overrated IMO. We have essential fats, essential amino acids, do we have essential carbs? Nope. Use enough carbs to 'spare' muscle...that’s it
Agree to disagree, IMO Keto guys look like flat, leather shit...sounds like you've been brainwashed by palumbo :D
No brain washing here...trust me....I dont agree with full out keto.....the whole 'macadamia nut oil with my brown eggs and peanut butter' drones are pathetic. I feel that if someone were to do keto-style diet at the beginning of the diet then slowly transition into have more carbs, they would come in leaner, harder, and fuller. Will anyone ever do that? Nope
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Here's what I've found to lose weight as a natural:
"Dieting" is the mistake...eat as much good food as you hunger for (chicken breasts, fish, lean beef, broccoli and other veggies, sweet potatoes, brown rice, oatmeal, etc...), don't eat crap but once a week.
I find that if you eat clean, lift hard, and do cardio 5x a week...you'll lose fat and gain/maintain muscle. But, that could be just me.
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(http://independentword.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Iran-attack.png)
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Mike Mentzer on "diet"
"Sugar ain't da bogeyman it's made out to be"
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mike mentzer is dead
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Periodic fasting is a great way to drop the pounds and maintain pretty much all of your lean mass - at least for me. I think the whole concept of fasting is completely overlooked - not just by the bodybuilding community but by the general population at large.
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IMO these are the mistakes most guys make when trying to diet without Hormonas :
* Too much cardio (no more than once a day, with one day complete rest a week) - use the diet rather.
* Adding cardio and dropping calories at the same time - too big a deficit
* Getting too fat in the off season ( as a natural you should see your top 4 abs at minimum in the off season, preferably all 6)
* too much HIIT (No more than 2-3 a week) taxes legs too much drains CNS
* Too many days, too much time spent in the gym, too many sets and with high reps & light weight, chasing the pump. - 3-4 days max, 40 min, High intensity, low volume, heavy weight, compound moves mostly, no isolation moves.
Your recovery is compromised when dieting..it does not make any sense to add more than is needed. Only enough to signal to your body to hold on to it's muscle (maintain it) that is all u need.
* Not dieting long enough (16 weeks minimum) 25 weeks is better.
* Using t3 (bad move)
* Not getting enough sleep (at least 8 hours)
* Using a Keto diet less than 100g carbs a day (Not the best IMO)
* Too much protein, too low carb...carbs will spare more muscle than protein. As far as protein more than what you need is a mistake (3g per kg BW) better off using those Kcal from carbs.
* Not enough EFA
* No re-feeds / diet breaks
* Not staying hydrated -especially around workouts
* Cutting out salt.
* losing more than a pound a week
This thread hits close to home. I fell victim to nearly all of these. Can't believe I wasted 6 1/2 years training naturally
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* Too much protein, too low carb...carbs will spare more muscle than protein. As far as protein more than what you need is a mistake (3g per kg BW) better off using those Kcal from carbs.
I'm a bit confused by this sentence... Do you mean a natty bb must consume 3g/kg protein or 3g/kg carbs?
How much protein does a natty bb really need??
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* Too much protein, too low carb...carbs will spare more muscle than protein. As far as protein more than what you need is a mistake (3g per kg BW) better off using those Kcal from carbs.
I'm a bit confused by this sentence... Do you mean a natty bb must consume 3g/kg protein or 3g/kg carbs?
How much protein does a natty bb really need??
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After reading this thread I came to the conclusion that I'm the only real natural in this site , .
Clen ,ECA ::) GTFO
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I used Mike's nutrition ratios last year at the beginning of my pre contest diet and it worked quite well for me. I was consuming about 2500 cals a day with the 60/25/15 ratio and then as the weeks went on I lowered carbs as necessary but kept protein about the same.
I want to do the same this time around but I want to change my carb sources. Last time I dieted on basically oats and sweet potato.
This time I want to keep the oats but also include fruits such as bananas, apples and oranges.
Anyone have any experience pre contest dieting on fruit as a main carb source?
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I'm a bit confused by this sentence... Do you mean a natty bb must consume 3g/kg protein or 3g/kg carbs?
How much protein does a natty bb really need??
1.3-1.5g/lb bw protein while dieting, low carbs (50-100g/day) except during carbloads 1x/week
no need for more
1.0g/lb protein bw while trying to build muscle
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After reading this thread I came to the conclusion that I'm the only real natural in this site , .
Clen ,ECA ::) GTFO
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so you've never used ECA?
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your days are numberd if you think you can compete with me after i get a pump in the gym
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Periodic fasting is a great way to drop the pounds and maintain pretty much all of your lean mass - at least for me. I think the whole concept of fasting is completely overlooked - not just by the bodybuilding community but by the general population at large.
Can you elaborate?
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your days are numberd if you think you can compete with me after i get a pump in the gym
who?
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Here's me dieted down to 168 lbs no hormones with a little help from t3 and clen .. eating too little and doing too much cardio.
Were you doing steady state or interval cardio?
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who?
those who doubt the failcon
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those who doubt the failcon
;D ;D ;D
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so you've never used ECA?
Nope , just hardcore dieting
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Nope , just hardcore dieting
and hard training
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and hard training
Always
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macro nutrients and you will have no problems.
I never lost an ounce of muscle while cutting. I maintain a low bodyfat year around with great lifts.
ECA stack is such garbage. Don't waste time with fad diets or go keto. Eat at a caloric deficit and calculate your macros. You can eat whatever you want.
hope this helps
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The stupid is strong in this thread.
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After reading this thread I came to the conclusion that I'm the only real natural in this site , .
Clen ,ECA ::) GTFO
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You aren't.
This is me last Wednesday. Yeah I am a twink but I do pretty damned well for training natural since I started.
http://imgur.com/a/YCWQb#0
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You aren't.
This is me last Wednesday. Yeah I am a twink but I do pretty damned well for training natural since I started.
http://imgur.com/a/YCWQb#0
Yeah , but you look like shit ,I hope this helps.
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Yeah , but you look like shit ,I hope this helps.
Appreciate it bro.
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Yeah , but you look like shit ,I hope this helps.
are you still sitting @ a "semi-dry" sub-7 ma man?
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Appreciate it bro.
No problem.
are you still sitting @ a "semi-dry" sub-7 ma man?
Yes , semi sub-7
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IMO these are the mistakes most guys make when trying to diet without Hormonas :
* Too much cardio (no more than once a day, with one day complete rest a week) - use the diet rather.
Quite the opposite, it's always better to do more cardio than to eat too little
* Adding cardio and dropping calories at the same time - too big a deficit
agree
* Getting too fat in the off season ( as a natural you should see your top 4 abs at minimum in the off season, preferably all 6)
agree partially, people carry fat differently
* too much HIIT (No more than 2-3 a week) taxes legs too much drains CNS
steady state cardio's ok
* Too many days, too much time spent in the gym, too many sets and with high reps & light weight, chasing the pump. - 3-4 days max, 40 min, High intensity, low volume, heavy weight, compound moves mostly, no isolation moves.
Your recovery is compromised when dieting..it does not make any sense to add more than is needed. Only enough to signal to your body to hold on to it's muscle (maintain it) that is all u need.
disagree, need high sets, high reps for glycogen depletion, need heavy weight to send signal to body to hold on to muscle, of course the volume has to be tailored to the indvidual
* Not dieting long enough (16 weeks minimum) 25 weeks is better.
depends what you're starting from
* Using t3 (bad move)
agree, especially for ectos
* Not getting enough sleep (at least 8 hours)
agree
* Using a Keto diet less than 100g carbs a day (Not the best IMO)
disagree, low carbs, low fat, high protein for glycogen depletion and fat burning, high carbs, low fat, moderate protein for refeeds to reestablish a hormonal profile
* Too much protein, too low carb...carbs will spare more muscle than protein. As far as protein more than what you need is a mistake (3g per kg BW) better off using those Kcal from carbs.
not if you're using refeeds
* Not enough EFA
agree
* No re-feeds / diet breaks
agree
* Not staying hydrated -especially around workouts
agree
* Cutting out salt.
agree
* losing more than a pound a week
agree
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No such thing as natty dieting ... you'll loose everything
not true