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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: IZO on April 10, 2012, 09:03:23 AM



Title: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 10, 2012, 09:03:23 AM
Hallo

After many hard years in the gym i decided to take my training to the next level.
I have about 8 years of experience (gym) , and have spent most of my time to learn all about nutrition and how my body responds on different exercises and training routines.
I  decided to start with steroids as a final touch to increase muscle mass and get more detailed.

After lots of research i decided to start a Test Propionate only cycle 100mg EOD 8weeks.

Stat. Age 24, weight 72 kg, lenght 178 cm, body fat 8%.

Nutrition: Daily calorie intake about 2700kcal
Meal:
1: cup of oats+eggwhites with spenach+flaxseed oil.
2: whey isolate+casein  drink and almonds.
3:Brown rice+ chicken breast and broccoli and olive oil.
Gym workout: bcaa+glutamine+dextro during workout.
Post workout: Whey isolate.
4:Rice+beef and broccoli.
5:White fish+sallad
6:Chicken+sallad
7:Whey isolat drink

Just a sample, i stay 100% clean with my food...

Gym routine: 5 days week, cardio 3 times week.

Supplements:
Whey isolate
Bcaa
Glutamine
Multi vits
Zma
Vit c

Cycle plan:

Test Propionate 100mg EOD 8 weeks.

Week:
1: Mon, Wen, Fri, Sun 100mg EOD
2-8: 100mg EOD, also arimidex on hand.

Pct: starts 3 days after last inject
Clomid: 50/50/25/25
Nolvadex:40/40/20/20

Very grateful for all feedback and help that i can get.







Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: notsureifsrs on April 10, 2012, 09:21:29 AM
Im not a fan of PCT nor getting off at all, but oh well...
What's the deal with running Nolva and Clomid together?
No HCG?
I would also use Aromasin the whole time so your estrogen under control.

Take a BW before and during to make shit interesting.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: abijahmaniaco on April 10, 2012, 10:07:09 AM
I  decided to start with steroids as a final touch to increase muscle mass and get more detailed.

LOL ;D


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: abijahmaniaco on April 10, 2012, 10:14:15 AM
ok, serious post now. if you're really 8% and eat that clean and with all your experience i can say you'll blow up and are prime candidate for using gear.

you're doing everything right. guys like you it's like you already have the motor and the wheels and everything else to a car, but you've just been without the key. when you get it you're gonna take off for sure.

but

my recommendations nonetheless:

drop these:
Whey isolate
Bcaa
Glutamine

waste of money in my opinion. unless you just have tons of money and want to continue with them. but i think you'll get the same results without them.

keep these:
Multi vits
Zma
Vit c

just for your health.

instead of only test i would go straight to
test propionate 150mg / week + tren ace 300 mg a week and proviron or masteron.

good luck. and realize that after eight years you're already maxed out naturally! if you go off cycle you will return to your current weight. just sayin'.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Brocty on April 10, 2012, 10:18:18 AM
Get jacked liked this fella?

(http://www.legendgames.org/acatalog/feral_Troll.jpg)


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on April 10, 2012, 10:18:50 AM
Your cycle is just prop?  You will grow bloofy with bitch tities.  I don't get the whole clean up your diet then take steroids. 


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: abijahmaniaco on April 10, 2012, 10:20:03 AM
btw, since you're big on supplements, take these for cholesterol support while on aas: red yeast rice, niacin, policonaols, guggul lipids, garlic, and fenugreek


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: aesthetics on April 10, 2012, 10:20:06 AM
if you can get your hands on legit tren-ace then i'd recommend 100mg EoD instead of the test, as tren fits your goals better than test, but up to you, your body.

if you are going on gear the use of glucose, and bcca's pre/post and during workout, are absolutely unnecessary. especially if you go on tren, you can cut your calories in half, protein and carbs, while still making gains and getting leaner.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: ritch on April 10, 2012, 10:20:49 AM
ok, serious post now. if you're really 8% and eat that clean and with all your experience i can say you'll blow up and are prime candidate for using gear.

you're doing everything right. guys like you it's like you already have the motor and the wheels and everything else to a car, but you've just been without the key. when you get it you're gonna take off for sure.

but

my recommendations nonetheless:

drop these:
Whey isolate
Bcaa
Glutamine

waste of money in my opinion. unless you just have tons of money and want to continue with them. but i think you'll get the same results without them.

keep these:
Multi vits
Zma
Vit c

just for your health.

instead of only test i would go straight to
test propionate 150mg / week + tren ace 300 mg a week and proviron or masteron.


good luck. and realize that after eight years you're already maxed out naturally! if you go off cycle you will return to your current weight. just sayin'.


your nuts.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: ritch on April 10, 2012, 10:22:20 AM
Your cycle is just prop?  You will grow bloofy with bitch tities.  I don't get the whole clean up your diet then take steroids. 

more nonsense in this thread.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: abijahmaniaco on April 10, 2012, 10:24:41 AM
if you can get your hands on legit tren-ace then i'd recommend 100mg EoD instead of the test, as tren fits your goals better than test, but up to you, your body.

if you are going on gear the use of glucose, and bcca's pre/post and during workout, are absolutely unnecessary. especially if you go on tren, you can cut your calories in half, protein and carbs, while still making gains and getting leaner.

this is true. in fact, this is the very reason they give it to cows—to increase feeding efficiency. so they feed them less, give them finaplix, and reap the same harvest. but what if they fed them the same or more AND gave them finaplix—they would theoretically reap an even bigger harvest, right? see where i'm going with this?


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: abijahmaniaco on April 10, 2012, 10:25:50 AM
your nuts.

uh, why exactly? i looked my personal best on this protocol...


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: aesthetics on April 10, 2012, 10:27:20 AM
this is true. in fact, this is the very reason they give it to cows—to increase feeding efficiency. so they feed them less, give them finaplix, and reap the same harvest. but what if they fed them the same or more and gave them finaplix—they would theoretically reap an even bigger harvest, right? see where i'm going with this?

no


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: abijahmaniaco on April 10, 2012, 10:28:56 AM
no

uh, huh ::)


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: ritch on April 10, 2012, 10:34:21 AM
uh, why exactly? i looked my personal best on this protocol...


you can't honestly say that's a good idea for a beginner. Way too much gear. No need to stack anything first cycle either. Just keep is simple, do 500mg of long lasting test per week for 12 weeks.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: abijahmaniaco on April 10, 2012, 10:40:55 AM

you can't honestly say that's a good idea for a beginner. Way too much gear. No need to stack anything first cycle either. Just keep is simple, do 500mg of long lasting test per week for 12 weeks.

oh yes, i can! that's not much gear at all! 450mg of gear a week bro? that's nothing. people take fucking grams of this shit for decades on end.

you realize that your recommendation is actually 50mg MORE than what i recommended? do you realize that?? and your recommendation, yes, it's a common first cycle, but the quality, definition, separation and ILLUSION will be there so much more on mine.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: ChevChelios on April 10, 2012, 10:43:56 AM
Stfu with your keeping simple and 500 mg test-e.Bullfuckingshit.Yea,150 test + 350 tren-a=500 mg .WAAAAY to much gear.The great thing with tren-a is that is you get nasty sides,you drop it and in couple of days you are fine.The bad thing with your stupid cycle of 500 test long acting,is that you get bloated,you get you estrogen up and if you start growing titonas it takes AI(which is another cost) to fight it,and sometimes it can be too late for that too.Instead of being a bloated wattery and don't knowing how much of your gained pounds is fat,water or muscle,why not use tren and make sure you gain pure quality muscle? ::)


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: abijahmaniaco on April 10, 2012, 10:45:57 AM
Stfu with your keeping simple and 500 mg test-e.Bullfuckingshit.Yea,150 test + 350 tren-a=500 mg .WAAAAY to much gear.The great thing with tren-a is that is you get nasty sides,you drop it and in couple of days you are fine.The bad thing with your stupid cycle of 500 test long acting,is that you get bloated,you get you estrogen up and if you start growing titonas it takes AI(which is another cost) to fight it,and sometimes it can be too late for that too.Instead of being a bloated wattery and don't knowing how much of your gained pounds is fat,water or muscle,why not use tren and make sure you gain pure quality muscle? ::)

fucking spot on.

that's why i suggested masteron or proviron.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: aesthetics on April 10, 2012, 10:46:11 AM
uh, huh ::)

what are you even basing this off of?


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: abijahmaniaco on April 10, 2012, 10:53:27 AM
you can cut your calories in half, protein and carbs, while still making gains and getting leaner.

well, why would you do that? the more muscle you carry the more calories you will need to sustain it.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: aesthetics on April 10, 2012, 11:21:51 AM
that's true to some extent but at the same time, the more steroids used, the less calories needed to stay anabolic. people on gear can get away with severe calorie deficits without much cause for concern, especially when it comes to losing real, actual muscle tissue. size loss is a bit different, and going flat is pretty unavoidable when running diet drugs like t3/dnp unless the dosages are low, or the calories are run higher to compensate (end result of fat loss is both the same, just the latter is unhealthy).

with tren in particular, it drastically reduces protein turnover rate, which means the body requires less protein to stay anabolic and the increased nutrient partitioning characteristic (i believe due to increased systemic IGF-1 levels, as well as increased IGF at the local, muscle level) means less carbs are also required for the muscles to stay hard, and keep strength up.

there's really no great need to eat large amounts of calories, in fact, i find it rather counterproductive as it increases insulin resistance, and insulin is one of the most anabolic hormones in the body - meaning excessive calories can hurt someone's gains.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: ritch on April 10, 2012, 11:41:56 AM
Stfu with your keeping simple and 500 mg test-e.Bullfuckingshit.Yea,150 test + 350 tren-a=500 mg .WAAAAY to much gear.The great thing with tren-a is that is you get nasty sides,you drop it and in couple of days you are fine.The bad thing with your stupid cycle of 500 test long acting,is that you get bloated,you get you estrogen up and if you start growing titonas it takes AI(which is another cost) to fight it,and sometimes it can be too late for that too.Instead of being a bloated wattery and don't knowing how much of your gained pounds is fat,water or muscle,why not use tren and make sure you gain pure quality muscle? ::)

I knew that would come up. It's possible to be very lean with just test if you know how to eat right. And even with tren it's best to use an AI, so that's not really justified as a reason not to do this. And if you get real tren problems, you may have to use a Caber or something. And that shits expensive. There's no denying test and tren being great, and with tren you don't have to be so strict diet wise it seems.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: abijahmaniaco on April 10, 2012, 12:05:14 PM
that's true to some extent but at the same time, the more steroids used, the less calories needed to stay anabolic. people on gear can get away with severe calorie deficits without much cause for concern, especially when it comes to losing real, actual muscle tissue. size loss is a bit different, and going flat is pretty unavoidable when running diet drugs like t3/dnp unless the dosages are low, or the calories are run higher to compensate (end result of fat loss is both the same, just the latter is unhealthy).

with tren in particular, it drastically reduces protein turnover rate, which means the body requires less protein to stay anabolic and the increased nutrient partitioning characteristic (i believe due to increased systemic IGF-1 levels, as well as increased IGF at the local, muscle level) means less carbs are also required for the muscles to stay hard, and keep strength up.

there's really no great need to eat large amounts of calories, in fact, i find it rather counterproductive as it increases insulin resistance, and insulin is one of the most anabolic hormones in the body - meaning excessive calories can hurt someone's gains.

listen, steroids are like a signal. so say you have a contractor building a house. he wants this house to be really big and bad ass and he's certainly intelligent enough to tell all his workers what to do (there's enough signal to make it happen), BUT there are not enough building materials. he's only going to be able to build a small house.

so you see, by limiting your intake, you are limiting your potential for growth. eat til you're full. don't stuff yourself. eat balanced and not a bunch of sugary processed junk and you wont run into insulin resistance (pre-diabetic) conditions.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Overload on April 10, 2012, 12:13:11 PM
It's possible to be very lean with just test if you know how to eat right.

I agree completely.

Nobody wants to put in any work. They just want to shoot Tren/Mast and turn into Arnold in 8 weeks. Which we all know is complete bullshit. Rome wasn't built over night and you will never become a bodybuilder just because you use Tren.

500mg of Test will not make you bloofy/fat and you will not need any type of AI with a does that small. It's when you go over 1500mg that you see bloating issues. Even then it's easily controlled.

As far as the OP question, i would shoot 50-75mg ED of Prop and see how that treats you in 8 weeks. When you feel comfortable with Test Prop you can add in some Tren A.

Keep it simple bro, no need to throw all these compounds into the mix for your first cycle.

Tren by itself can be a nightmare. You can research it or take these guy's word for it. Personally i would research it and ask as many questions as you wish. I have trained with some of the top guys in the nation and they all LOVE Test and lots of it. Most of the NPC guys i know only use Tren precontest.

Good luck!


8)


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on April 10, 2012, 12:27:21 PM
I agree completely.

Nobody wants to put in any work. They just want to shoot Tren/Mast and turn into Arnold in 8 weeks. Which we all know is complete bullshit. Rome wasn't built over night and you will never become a bodybuilder just because you use Tren.

500mg of Test will not make you bloofy/fat and you will not need any type of AI with a does that small. It's when you go over 1500mg that you see bloating issues. Even then it's easily controlled.

As far as the OP question, i would shoot 50-75mg ED of Prop and see how that treats you in 8 weeks. When you feel comfortable with Test Prop you can add in some Tren A.

Keep it simple bro, no need to throw all these compounds into the mix for your first cycle.

Tren by itself can be a nightmare. You can research it or take these guy's word for it. Personally i would research it and ask as many questions as you wish. I have trained with some of the top guys in the nation and they all LOVE Test and lots of it. Most of the NPC guys i know only use Tren precontest.

Good luck!


8)

You bring a good point in the end. People keep on talking about how much better bb was in the 80's but in the 80's weren't they all using lots of Test and a little of the other stuff.  Not as much extra shit as they do today?  Can't people put 2 and 2 together that mixing 6 drugs is not going to make you look like arnold since arnold only took maybe 3-4 different compounds.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: aesthetics on April 10, 2012, 12:29:20 PM
listen, steroids are like a signal. so say you have a contractor building a house. he wants this house to be really big and bad ass and he's certainly intelligent enough to tell all his workers what to do (there's enough signal to make it happen), BUT there are not enough building materials. he's only going to be able to build a small house.

so you see, by limiting your intake, you are limiting your potential for growth. eat til you're full. don't stuff yourself. eat balanced and not a bunch of sugary processed junk and you wont run into insulin resistance (pre-diabetic) conditions.

this is a bad analogy and i even explained in the post why it isn't like this. i don't want to keep repeating myself when it's falling on deaf ears so i'm done.  


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: aesthetics on April 10, 2012, 12:37:03 PM
I agree completely.

Nobody wants to put in any work. They just want to shoot Tren/Mast and turn into Arnold in 8 weeks. Which we all know is complete bullshit. Rome wasn't built over night and you will never become a bodybuilder just because you use Tren.

500mg of Test will not make you bloofy/fat and you will not need any type of AI with a does that small. It's when you go over 1500mg that you see bloating issues. Even then it's easily controlled.

As far as the OP question, i would shoot 50-75mg ED of Prop and see how that treats you in 8 weeks. When you feel comfortable with Test Prop you can add in some Tren A.

Keep it simple bro, no need to throw all these compounds into the mix for your first cycle.

Tren by itself can be a nightmare. You can research it or take these guy's word for it. Personally i would research it and ask as many questions as you wish. I have trained with some of the top guys in the nation and they all LOVE Test and lots of it. Most of the NPC guys i know only use Tren precontest.

Good luck!


8)


i think the sides of tren are greatly exaggerated. like you said with test, the bad sides don't come out until high dosages, why not apply that same mentality to tren instead of writing it off?

even still, many people can handle running 100mg/ed just fine. i think the people who are unable to run it are in the very, very, small minority. can you make polls on this board? it would be interesting to see the results of it.

i agree with you about the hard work and dedication. all the pros - all the pros who have physiques worth idolizing - they had all been training for decades and they all trained with intensity. there are a lot of analogies that can be applied to steroid usage, but essentially what it comes down to is this: steroids are simply a tool to build something, but it still requires the labor to lay the bricks and mortar, as nothing will build itself


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on April 10, 2012, 12:39:27 PM

i think the sides of tren are greatly exaggerated. like you said with test, the bad sides don't come out until high dosages, why not apply that same mentality to tren instead of writing it off?

even still, many people can handle running 100mg/ed just fine. i think the people who are unable to run it are in the very, very, small minority. can you make polls on this board? it would be interesting to see the results of it.

i agree with you about the hard work and dedication. all the pros - all the pros who have physiques worth idolizing - they had all been training for decades and they all trained with intensity. there are a lot of analogies that can be applied to steroid usage, but essentially what it comes down to is this: steroids are simply a tool to build something, but it still requires the labor to lay the bricks and mortar, as nothing will build itself

I think sides really come from history of drug use, age, health etc...  A 19 year old can get away with more shit than a 30 year old.  But a 19 year old raver might get more sides than a 19 year old health nut.  Human nature man.  That is why some dudes can cycle once and look like they are IFBB material and others need 5 cycles to get there.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: abijahmaniaco on April 10, 2012, 12:45:28 PM
You bring a good point in the end. People keep on talking about how much better bb was in the 80's but in the 80's weren't they all using lots of Test and a little of the other stuff.  Not as much extra shit as they do today?  Can't people put 2 and 2 together that mixing 6 drugs is not going to make you look like arnold since arnold only took maybe 3-4 different compounds.

no, they reportedly didn't use a lot of test back then. they used primobolan, deca, and dbol.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: aesthetics on April 10, 2012, 12:47:47 PM
I think sides really come from history of drug use, age, health etc...  A 19 year old can get away with more shit than a 30 year old.  But a 19 year old raver might get more sides than a 19 year old health nut.  Human nature man.  That is why some dudes can cycle once and look like they are IFBB material and others need 5 cycles to get there.

yea, that's absolutely true. genetics play a huge role. i feel barely any sides on GH or roids until i mega dose the stuff.

no, they reportedly didn't use a lot of test back then. they used primobolan, deca, and dbol.

this is also true. 70s no one used test, 80s test was still not commonly used. 90s was when test, slin and gh started to make a huge impact on the sport.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Overload on April 10, 2012, 12:48:01 PM

i think the sides of tren are greatly exaggerated. like you said with test, the bad sides don't come out until high dosages, why not apply that same mentality to tren instead of writing it off?

even still, many people can handle running 100mg/ed just fine. i think the people who are unable to run it are in the very, very, small minority. can you make polls on this board? it would be interesting to see the results of it.

i agree with you about the hard work and dedication. all the pros - all the pros who have physiques worth idolizing - they had all been training for decades and they all trained with intensity. there are a lot of analogies that can be applied to steroid usage, but essentially what it comes down to is this: steroids are simply a tool to build something, but it still requires the labor to lay the bricks and mortar, as nothing will build itself

I concur.

The sides with Tren seem to be hit or miss, but in my experience more people have trouble with Tren than any other compound. It's a great compound and works wonders, but it's not magic.

You raise some great points and i cannot argue against what you say, as i know a lot of guys who run high doses of Tren with no problems. It's just a grey area for me, i hate to give out advice on using Tren to a first cycle because i know a lot of people have issues with it.

You can create a poll on this board. I'd like to see the results as well.


8)


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on April 10, 2012, 12:55:24 PM
Even tren doesn't equal the same tren from different sources.  Tran from d vs, tren from P vs. tren from s etc....  Will all differ.

How many times have you heard someone say, I used tren from P and the sides were bad and they said well try tren from source a, I tried it and no sides blah blah blah


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Overload on April 10, 2012, 12:57:19 PM
yea, that's absolutely true. genetics play a huge role. i feel barely any sides on GH or roids until i mega dose the stuff. 

I am the opposite. I get severe anxiety off small amounts of Tren. As little as 600mg of Deca makes me have serious acne. Yet Test treats me like a King. I feel great all the time and the rest of my body agrees with it and my bloodwork is always good on it.

I get bad sides from GH as well. Hands go numb all the time and my wrists hurt like shit whenever i go above 6iu.

We are all different. That is why i hate blanket statements. I don't want people to think i'm against Tren, i'm just trying to warn people that it can mess with you more than other compounds.


8)


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: abijahmaniaco on April 10, 2012, 01:08:48 PM
with tren in particular, it drastically reduces protein turnover rate, which means the body requires less protein to stay anabolic and the increased nutrient partitioning characteristic (i believe due to increased systemic IGF-1 levels, as well as increased IGF at the local, muscle level) means less carbs are also required for the muscles to stay hard, and keep strength up.

i just re-read llewellyn's profile on tren ace. i find no mention of these effects you speak of. any evidence? i'm not doubting you necessarily. i've just never heard this before.

increased nutrient partitioning characteristic

and what do you mean by this?


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Arnold jr on April 10, 2012, 01:15:46 PM
The cycle is fine, and like Overload said, there's no reason to worry about getting bloated. Testosterone bloat is so easy to control it's ridiculous...in most case, if there's a problem, there's a problem with you...most of the time, it just means you're eating like a big fat pig which is obviously not going to be a problem for you.

I remember doing prep diets with nothing but larger ester testosterone when I was around your age...it was all I had or could afford. I was lean and hard and turned out fine. Absolutely, additional things made a huge difference, and I eventually got there too, but there's nothing wrong with a simple test cycle. I seriously doubt you're going to gain a massive amount of lean tissue on this plan based on the dosing and your diet, but your physique should improve notably.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: aesthetics on April 10, 2012, 01:43:34 PM
i just re-read llewellyn's profile on tren ace. i find no mention of these effects you speak of. any evidence? i'm not doubting you necessarily. i've just never heard this before.

and what do you mean by this?

you said it yourself here

this is true. in fact, this is the very reason they give it to cows—to increase feeding efficiency. so they feed them less, give them finaplix, and reap the same harvest.

it increases the efficiency of the food utilization, essentially requiring less food for anabolism as more of the food goes towards building muscle rather than fat storage


here's an article for your first question:

Quote from: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20961723
Abstract

Although androgenic and estrogenic steroids are widely used to enhance muscle growth and increase feed efficiency in feedlot cattle, their mechanism of action is not well understood. Although in vivo studies have indicated that androgens affect protein synthesis and protein degradation rate in muscle, results from in vitro studies have been inconsistent. We have examined the effects of trenbolone acetate (TBA), a synthetic androgen, on protein synthesis and degradation rates in fused bovine satellite cell (BSC) cultures. Additionally, we have examined the effects of compounds that interfere with binding of TBA or insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) to their respective receptors on TBA-induced alterations in protein synthesis and degradation rates in BSC cultures. Treatment of fused BSC cultures with TBA results in a concentration-dependent increase (P < 0.05) in protein synthesis rate and a decrease (P < 0.05) in degradation rate, establishing that TBA directly affects these parameters. Flutamide, a compound that prevents androgen binding to the androgen receptor, suppresses (P < 0.05) TBA-induced alterations in protein synthesis and degradation in fused BSC cultures, indicating the androgen receptor is involved. JB1, a competitive inhibitor of IGF-1 binding to the type 1 IGF receptor (IGF1R), suppresses (P < 0.05) TBA-induced alterations in protein synthesis and degradation, indicating that this receptor also is involved in the actions of TBA on both synthesis and degradation. In summary, our data show that TBA acts directly to alter both protein synthesis and degradation rates in fused BSC cultures via mechanisms involving both the androgen receptor and IGF1R.


in vivo studies shows it decreases protein synthesis and overall protein turnover. i'm trying to find the article, as i remember a pubmed that was on this subject but i can't find it at the moment so here is an excerpt from a google book

Quote
In an attempt to elucidate the mode of action of an androgenic growth promoter,
Vernon & Buttery (1976, 19784b) studied the effect of trenbolone acetate on
protein turnover in the female rat. (Trenbolone acetate seems to require the
presence of an oestrogen in order to promote a significant growth response
(Heitzman, 1976)). Trenbolone acetate appeared to reduce the rate of muscle
protein synthesis (assessed by the technique described by Garlick & Marshall,
1972) and the rate of muscle protein breakdown (assessed both by the Na, 14C03
technique (Millward, 1970)
and by the excretion of N-t-methyl histidine (Vernon &
Buttery, 1976, 19780)) (see Table I).


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Overload on April 10, 2012, 01:59:53 PM
Looks like i was wrong. You can't start a poll here, but i can add one to a thread.

I guess since i never started one i was oblivious to this change.


8)


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: aesthetics on April 10, 2012, 02:29:27 PM
ya, i thought only mods could make the polls here, in some fashion or another.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: abijahmaniaco on April 11, 2012, 07:52:54 AM
the first article is an interesting read; to see all the factors it affects. but for all intents and purposes this information does not seem very useful to the bodybuilder. i mean, when i take tren it's not like i am able to monitor all these factors. all i can do is do my best to supply my body with the nutrients it needs to be healthy and insure a constant availability of amino acids in my blood stream around the clock for whenever my body is prompted to build muscle. so in the end, i don't think skimping on calories is ever a good idea (under the obvious assumption that what you're eating is healthy and balanced).

the second article i'm a bit confused about
"a decrease in protein synthesis"—wouldn't that mean a lesser amount of muscle being metabolized from protein? wouldn't it result in the opposite—an increase in protein synthesis?


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: aesthetics on April 11, 2012, 08:17:04 AM
"a decrease in protein synthesis"—wouldn't that mean a lesser amount of muscle being metabolized from protein?


yes, that is what it means, however, protein degradation is reduces much more so than protein synthesis so there is a net gain in anabolism with less protein necessary because protein turnover is decreased.

tren is the only steroid that has been shown in studies to reduce protein turnover, while things like testosterone increase protein turnover (increase protein synthesis and protein degradation, though protein synthesis again much more so than degradation so a net increase in anabolism)


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 11, 2012, 09:31:47 AM
Hii

Want to thank everyone for the great feedback, lots of interestning reading hope it can remain.

My main goal is to try gain lean quality mass as possible,and learn how my body responds on gear , since this is my first cycle its very important. I belive that you have to go for it 100%, train hard, eat, take good time to lisent to your body and how it reacts. We are all different and have our own goals, its important to try to find whats best for us to achieve our goals..

Trenbolone Acetate has also been very interestning for me, have not done any serious research on it yet.
Many told me to stay away from it for the first cycle.

I think that it maybe is to advanced to stack it with Test Prop in my first cycle, and to run just Tren A might not be the best thing to do?

Seems that (aesthetics) and (abijahmaniaco) have som great experience.


All feedback is appreciated.




Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: deadpan on April 11, 2012, 09:43:13 AM
ok, serious post now. if you're really 8% and eat that clean and with all your experience i can say you'll blow up and are prime candidate for using gear.

you're doing everything right. guys like you it's like you already have the motor and the wheels and everything else to a car, but you've just been without the key. when you get it you're gonna take off for sure.

but

my recommendations nonetheless:

drop these:
Whey isolate
Bcaa
Glutamine

waste of money in my opinion. unless you just have tons of money and want to continue with them. but i think you'll get the same results without them.

keep these:
Multi vits
Zma
Vit c

just for your health.

instead of only test i would go straight to
test propionate 150mg / week + tren ace 300 mg a week and proviron or masteron.

good luck. and realize that after eight years you're already maxed out naturally! if you go off cycle you will return to your current weight. just sayin'.


dude zma and oral vitamins don't really absorb effectively enough to warrant the price.....

then again if your food intake is correct you don't really need protein shakes either


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 11, 2012, 10:16:17 AM
Food is 100% for me..
I use whey isolate shake direct after training and sometimes in the morning if the protein intake during the day is low,  works great for me..


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: deadpan on April 11, 2012, 10:18:55 AM
Food is 100% for me..
I use whey isolate shake direct after training and sometimes in the morning if the protein intake during the day is low,  works great for me..


i like hydrolysate post personally, supposedly your body absorbs it quicker but honestly i just like that it mixes better.....less bloating/stomach issues as well


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: abijahmaniaco on April 11, 2012, 02:37:39 PM

yes, that is what it means, however, protein degradation is reduces much more so than protein synthesis so there is a net gain in anabolism with less protein necessary because protein turnover is decreased.

tren is the only steroid that has been shown in studies to reduce protein turnover, while things like testosterone increase protein turnover (increase protein synthesis and protein degradation, though protein synthesis again much more so than degradation so a net increase in anabolism)

i see, well that's interesting. thanks.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: abijahmaniaco on April 11, 2012, 02:40:31 PM
dude zma and oral vitamins don't really absorb effectively enough to warrant the price.....

then again if your food intake is correct you don't really need protein shakes either

i minimize supplements myself and depend on food. i juice fruits and vegetables three times a week to get an array of micro nutrients. i feel more confident in doing that then popping a multi-vitamin.

but again, if money is not at all an issue a multi-vitamin can't hurt either.

but for most of us we could be saving that money for hgh so.  ;)


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: wes on April 11, 2012, 02:59:03 PM
I agree completely.

Nobody wants to put in any work. They just want to shoot Tren/Mast and turn into Arnold in 8 weeks. Which we all know is complete bullshit. Rome wasn't built over night and you will never become a bodybuilder just because you use Tren.

500mg of Test will not make you bloofy/fat and you will not need any type of AI with a does that small. It's when you go over 1500mg that you see bloating issues. Even then it's easily controlled.

As far as the OP question, i would shoot 50-75mg ED of Prop and see how that treats you in 8 weeks. When you feel comfortable with Test Prop you can add in some Tren A.

Keep it simple bro, no need to throw all these compounds into the mix for your first cycle.

Tren by itself can be a nightmare. You can research it or take these guy's word for it. Personally i would research it and ask as many questions as you wish. I have trained with some of the top guys in the nation and they all LOVE Test and lots of it. Most of the NPC guys i know only use Tren precontest.

Good luck!


8)
Good post,I agree on all counts.

At times,it seems like Tren has just been recently discovered here on getbig.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Arnold jr on April 12, 2012, 12:55:03 AM
Good post,I agree on all counts.

At times,it seems like Tren has just been recently discovered here on getbig.

What's this Tren you speak of? Is that some kind of vitamin or is it like a creatine sauce you put on your chicken? I don't understand, please explain. Really trying to grow massive and shred up. I weigh 182.437lbs, I've been training all my life...well, about 18 months but that's close enough to call it all my life. I'm I'd say right at 14.9% BF. I haven't actually checked it but based on what I conjured with my imagination I'm right at 14.9%...if I was to go over 15% I'd die. I've got good abs, sort of like Brad Pitt in Fight Club. I've been working my ass off in the gym, I do flat bench and BB curls like crazy and hit some leg extension the other day like a mad man. I really did do like 24 sets of flat bench the other day and the girls were like looking like crazy at my jack.

Anyway, I really want to bulk up to about 245, maybe 250 but I want to be realistic. I'd like my body-fat to be around 3%, just enough fat to still be able to enjoy life and kick it. BTW, I drink so much protein powder and I've been looking at this GNC supplement called "Ripped Mass Anabolic Monster 4000." It says it's more potent than testosterone and Dbol and has fat burning properties like HGH and is guaranteed to own lives. It also says it might cause aggression similar to roid rage and that worries me, cause I already rage like crazy when I'm doing flat bench. Just drinking my protein powder sometimes gets me raging in like 5 minutes and I'm worried I won't be able to handle the "Ripped Mass Anabolic 4000." What do you think? Should I give it a try or should I try this Tren thing you're talking about?

One last thing. my boy said I need to be taking carbolyn with all my shakes if I want to be like huge and ripped. This guy is massive and shredded, he's not some gay competitor but he takes lots of carbolyn and probably does more flat bench then me which is saying something. Most everybody at the gym knows he takes carbolyn and I some people hate on him since it's pretty much a steroid, but he told me something huge the other day...I'm leaving his name out cause I don't want to out my boy. He said it's not just the carbolyn but that and he east like tons of ham every day and that's why he can do so much flat bench now. So I guess my last question is do you think I should try something like Tren to get where I want to be, or should I just try the carbolyn ham combination?

Sorry for the long post and so many questions, I'm just really trying to be a bad ass and want all the girls to see my freak ass when I'm at the club laying down my style. I'm mean that's why we do this, you know what I mean?


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: wes on April 12, 2012, 03:07:49 AM
LOL  :D


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: jparker on April 12, 2012, 07:22:34 AM
Damn near choked on my lunch  ;D


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: abijahmaniaco on April 12, 2012, 09:20:41 AM
What's this Tren you speak of? Is that some kind of vitamin or is it like a creatine sauce you put on your chicken? I don't understand, please explain. Really trying to grow massive and shred up. I weigh 182.437lbs, I've been training all my life...well, about 18 months but that's close enough to call it all my life. I'm I'd say right at 14.9% BF. I haven't actually checked it but based on what I conjured with my imagination I'm right at 14.9%...if I was to go over 15% I'd die. I've got good abs, sort of like Brad Pitt in Fight Club. I've been working my ass off in the gym, I do flat bench and BB curls like crazy and hit some leg extension the other day like a mad man. I really did do like 24 sets of flat bench the other day and the girls were like looking like crazy at my jack.

Anyway, I really want to bulk up to about 245, maybe 250 but I want to be realistic. I'd like my body-fat to be around 3%, just enough fat to still be able to enjoy life and kick it. BTW, I drink so much protein powder and I've been looking at this GNC supplement called "Ripped Mass Anabolic Monster 4000." It says it's more potent than testosterone and Dbol and has fat burning properties like HGH and is guaranteed to own lives. It also says it might cause aggression similar to roid rage and that worries me, cause I already rage like crazy when I'm doing flat bench. Just drinking my protein powder sometimes gets me raging in like 5 minutes and I'm worried I won't be able to handle the "Ripped Mass Anabolic 4000." What do you think? Should I give it a try or should I try this Tren thing you're talking about?

One last thing. my boy said I need to be taking carbolyn with all my shakes if I want to be like huge and ripped. This guy is massive and shredded, he's not some gay competitor but he takes lots of carbolyn and probably does more flat bench then me which is saying something. Most everybody at the gym knows he takes carbolyn and I some people hate on him since it's pretty much a steroid, but he told me something huge the other day...I'm leaving his name out cause I don't want to out my boy. He said it's not just the carbolyn but that and he east like tons of ham every day and that's why he can do so much flat bench now. So I guess my last question is do you think I should try something like Tren to get where I want to be, or should I just try the carbolyn ham combination?

Sorry for the long post and so many questions, I'm just really trying to be a bad ass and want all the girls to see my freak ass when I'm at the club laying down my style. I'm mean that's why we do this, you know what I mean?

don't forget the gallon of whole milk a day, bro. ;)


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 12, 2012, 09:42:29 AM
Ok, seems that i would stay to the basics and run a Test Prop cycle only for 8weeks as first cycle.
If everything goes fine i would Add Tren A+Test Prop for my next cycle. ;D


Must admit that i am tempted to try TREN.... ;D


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: deadpan on April 12, 2012, 11:01:10 AM
What's this Tren you speak of? Is that some kind of vitamin or is it like a creatine sauce you put on your chicken? I don't understand, please explain. Really trying to grow massive and shred up. I weigh 182.437lbs, I've been training all my life...well, about 18 months but that's close enough to call it all my life. I'm I'd say right at 14.9% BF. I haven't actually checked it but based on what I conjured with my imagination I'm right at 14.9%...if I was to go over 15% I'd die. I've got good abs, sort of like Brad Pitt in Fight Club. I've been working my ass off in the gym, I do flat bench and BB curls like crazy and hit some leg extension the other day like a mad man. I really did do like 24 sets of flat bench the other day and the girls were like looking like crazy at my jack.

Anyway, I really want to bulk up to about 245, maybe 250 but I want to be realistic. I'd like my body-fat to be around 3%, just enough fat to still be able to enjoy life and kick it. BTW, I drink so much protein powder and I've been looking at this GNC supplement called "Ripped Mass Anabolic Monster 4000." It says it's more potent than testosterone and Dbol and has fat burning properties like HGH and is guaranteed to own lives. It also says it might cause aggression similar to roid rage and that worries me, cause I already rage like crazy when I'm doing flat bench. Just drinking my protein powder sometimes gets me raging in like 5 minutes and I'm worried I won't be able to handle the "Ripped Mass Anabolic 4000." What do you think? Should I give it a try or should I try this Tren thing you're talking about?

One last thing. my boy said I need to be taking carbolyn with all my shakes if I want to be like huge and ripped. This guy is massive and shredded, he's not some gay competitor but he takes lots of carbolyn and probably does more flat bench then me which is saying something. Most everybody at the gym knows he takes carbolyn and I some people hate on him since it's pretty much a steroid, but he told me something huge the other day...I'm leaving his name out cause I don't want to out my boy. He said it's not just the carbolyn but that and he east like tons of ham every day and that's why he can do so much flat bench now. So I guess my last question is do you think I should try something like Tren to get where I want to be, or should I just try the carbolyn ham combination?

Sorry for the long post and so many questions, I'm just really trying to be a bad ass and want all the girls to see my freak ass when I'm at the club laying down my style. I'm mean that's why we do this, you know what I mean?

LOL the sad part is that i hear shit like this all the time


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Brocty on April 12, 2012, 11:05:59 AM
What's this Tren you speak of? Is that some kind of vitamin or is it like a creatine sauce you put on your chicken? I don't understand, please explain. Really trying to grow massive and shred up. I weigh 182.437lbs, I've been training all my life...well, about 18 months but that's close enough to call it all my life. I'm I'd say right at 14.9% BF. I haven't actually checked it but based on what I conjured with my imagination I'm right at 14.9%...if I was to go over 15% I'd die. I've got good abs, sort of like Brad Pitt in Fight Club. I've been working my ass off in the gym, I do flat bench and BB curls like crazy and hit some leg extension the other day like a mad man. I really did do like 24 sets of flat bench the other day and the girls were like looking like crazy at my jack.

Anyway, I really want to bulk up to about 245, maybe 250 but I want to be realistic. I'd like my body-fat to be around 3%, just enough fat to still be able to enjoy life and kick it. BTW, I drink so much protein powder and I've been looking at this GNC supplement called "Ripped Mass Anabolic Monster 4000." It says it's more potent than testosterone and Dbol and has fat burning properties like HGH and is guaranteed to own lives. It also says it might cause aggression similar to roid rage and that worries me, cause I already rage like crazy when I'm doing flat bench. Just drinking my protein powder sometimes gets me raging in like 5 minutes and I'm worried I won't be able to handle the "Ripped Mass Anabolic 4000." What do you think? Should I give it a try or should I try this Tren thing you're talking about?

One last thing. my boy said I need to be taking carbolyn with all my shakes if I want to be like huge and ripped. This guy is massive and shredded, he's not some gay competitor but he takes lots of carbolyn and probably does more flat bench then me which is saying something. Most everybody at the gym knows he takes carbolyn and I some people hate on him since it's pretty much a steroid, but he told me something huge the other day...I'm leaving his name out cause I don't want to out my boy. He said it's not just the carbolyn but that and he east like tons of ham every day and that's why he can do so much flat bench now. So I guess my last question is do you think I should try something like Tren to get where I want to be, or should I just try the carbolyn ham combination?

Sorry for the long post and so many questions, I'm just really trying to be a bad ass and want all the girls to see my freak ass when I'm at the club laying down my style. I'm mean that's why we do this, you know what I mean?

HAHAHa, good read

not far off!


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 14, 2012, 12:28:59 AM
Hii

Changed my cycle.

8week Test Prop 100mg eod+Winstrol 40mg day 4weeks out.

Week1: Test Prop
Week2: Test Prop
Week3: Test Prop
Week4: Test Prop
Week5: Test Prop+Winstrol
Week6: Test Prop+Winstrol
Week7: Test Prop+Winstrol
Wewk8: Test Prop+Winstrol

This would work fine for me  ;D


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: deadpan on April 14, 2012, 08:33:58 AM
Hii

Changed my cycle.

8week Test Prop 100mg eod+Winstrol 40mg day 4weeks out.

Week1: Test Prop
Week2: Test Prop
Week3: Test Prop
Week4: Test Prop
Week5: Test Prop+Winstrol
Week6: Test Prop+Winstrol
Week7: Test Prop+Winstrol
Wewk8: Test Prop+Winstrol

This would work fine for me  ;D


can i ask why you picked winstorl, is it to lean out? i hear that stuff dries out your joints like a bitch....not tryin to be a dick just wondering about your reasoning so i can store it in my "mental library" lol


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 14, 2012, 10:40:05 AM
Hi

My goal is to gain as much quality muscle mass and stay as lean as possible, current bodyfat 8%.
I decideed to use the Test Prop as base(first cycle), i would probably get à bit swollen and bloated and want to avoid it...
Winstrol also has anti estro effect.
Think it would work out just fine.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 14, 2012, 11:26:09 AM
Will try to post it on Monday, my computer not working...


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 14, 2012, 11:18:17 PM
Hi

Food is  most important for me , always  eat clean and stay lean ;D
There is a food sample in the thread page 1.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: DK II on April 15, 2012, 12:07:03 AM
What's this crap with a 8 week cycle??

Do 16 weeks, or better 20. No make that 40. Ah what the heck just stay on forever.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: ritch on April 15, 2012, 01:44:50 PM
being bloated has rather to do with diet/shit foods than with what steroid you take.

a guy i know was featured as most ripped bbuilder in MMI and he uses test enanthate for his cutting diet.no joke.

total truth here, so tired of hearing this shit on how long lasting test makes one puffy...


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: DK II on April 16, 2012, 06:22:56 AM
yes, kinda like when i sold fake dbols with nothing in them and the newbies go like "oh man i am so agressive"

 ::) ;D

hahaha, nice.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Hiitsmichael on April 21, 2012, 07:48:39 AM
Hallo

After many hard years in the gym i decided to take my training to the next level.
I have about 8 years of experience (gym) , and have spent most of my time to learn all about nutrition and how my body responds on different exercises and training routines.
I  decided to start with steroids as a final touch to increase muscle mass and get more detailed.

After lots of research i decided to start a Test Propionate only cycle 100mg EOD 8weeks.

Stat. Age 24, weight 72 kg, lenght 178 cm, body fat 8%.

Nutrition: Daily calorie intake about 2700kcal
Meal:
1: cup of oats+eggwhites with spenach+flaxseed oil.
2: whey isolate+casein  drink and almonds.
3:Brown rice+ chicken breast and broccoli and olive oil.
Gym workout: bcaa+glutamine+dextro during workout.
Post workout: Whey isolate.
4:Rice+beef and broccoli.
5:White fish+sallad
6:Chicken+sallad
7:Whey isolat drink

Just a sample, i stay 100% clean with my food...

Gym routine: 5 days week, cardio 3 times week.

Supplements:
Whey isolate
Bcaa
Glutamine
Multi vits
Zma
Vit c

Cycle plan:

Test Propionate 100mg EOD 8 weeks.

Week:
1: Mon, Wen, Fri, Sun 100mg EOD
2-8: 100mg EOD, also arimidex on hand.

Pct: starts 3 days after last inject
Clomid: 50/50/25/25
Nolvadex:40/40/20/20

Very grateful for all feedback and help that i can get.






If you're starting lean id say 50 mg prop ace and npp ed, you'll blow the fuck up. Get caber/letro cause chances are some gyno will develop


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 21, 2012, 07:58:10 AM
Hmm

i will run 100mg Test Propionate eod, Tren ace is strong for first user think i will add it to my next cycle.
Many told me to stay away from it for first cycle

•Mon - 100mg Test. Propionate
•Wed - 100mg Test. Propionate
•Fri - 100mg Test. Propionate
•Sun - 100mg Test. Propionate

will also skip the winstrol, just stay to the basics.
 


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 21, 2012, 09:04:41 AM
What do you guys think about my Pct? I personally do not think it is necessary with HCG during my cycle relatively low dose.

Also got my gear 2 days ago.

10mlx4 amps Test prop
200 tabs Nolvadex and Clomid
50 tabs Arimidex

ready to go...


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Arnold jr on April 21, 2012, 09:45:05 AM
What do you guys think about my Pct? I personally do not think it is necessary with HCG during my cycle relatively low dose.

Also got my gear 2 days ago.

10mlx4 amps Test prop
200 tabs Nolvadex and Clomid
50 tabs Arimidex

ready to go...

Once you come off, if you're going to be off for a good length of time there's no logical reason not to run a PCT plan. If you're only going to be off for a short period time, in that case there's no reason for the PCT plan. Further, the HCG on your cycle (which I'm not a fan of) isn't going to do anything post cycle to promote your recovery.

And before some idiot says no PCT plan promotes recovery, let me clarify...the point in a PCT plan is not to promote a fully recovery, a full recovery cannot be obtained with a PCT plan. However, you'll stimulate production and give your body enough testosterone in-order to function properly while your levels continue to naturally rise. Moreover, you'll cut down the total recovery time significantly. It's almost retarded that I feel like I have to say this on this board, but is what it is.

BTW, if you keep the Winstrol in your cycle that's not going to hurt anything....test/winny is a great first stack and you'll like it a lot more if you keep the winny in there.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: ChevChelios on April 21, 2012, 10:32:38 AM
I say you need nandrolone,equipina as well,or maybe some good old dbol?You are very skinyy,you need to pack some serious weight,now it's your time to pack it,you are very lean,go for a bigger stack  ;)


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 21, 2012, 10:44:07 AM
Thanks a lot great info very interesting  , I really appreciate it.

OK lets say that i decide to add Winstrol the 5 last weeks out,  would it be enough with only Nolvadex for my PCT?



Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Arnold jr on April 21, 2012, 11:29:04 AM
Thanks a lot great info very interesting  , I really appreciate it.

OK lets say that i decide to add Winstrol the 5 last weeks out,  would it be enough with only Nolvadex for my PCT?



I'd run the Winstrol for 6 to 8 weeks.

As for Nolva:

WK 1: 40mg/ed
WK 2: 40mg/ed
WK 3: 20mg/ed
WK 4: 20mg/ed
WK 5: 10mg/ed



Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 21, 2012, 12:04:36 PM
thanks, may take time for me to get the winstrol now since i just got my gear , maybe got to run the test only.

PCT: Nolvadex
WK 1: 40mg/ed    
WK 2: 40mg/ed
WK 3: 20mg/ed
WK 4: 20mg/ed
WK 5: 10mg/ed

PCT: Clomid
WK 1: 100mg/ed    
WK 2: 100mg/ed
WK 3: 50mg/ed
WK 4: 25mg/ed
WK 5: 25mg/ed

What do you think about this if i only run Test Prop



Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Arnold jr on April 21, 2012, 12:28:17 PM
thanks, may take time for me to get the winstrol now since i just got my gear , maybe got to run the test only.

PCT: Nolvadex
WK 1: 40mg/ed    
WK 2: 40mg/ed
WK 3: 20mg/ed
WK 4: 20mg/ed
WK 5: 10mg/ed

PCT: Clomid
WK 1: 100mg/ed    
WK 2: 100mg/ed
WK 3: 50mg/ed
WK 4: 25mg/ed
WK 5: 25mg/ed

What do you think about this if i only run Test Prop



You don't need both nolva and clomid....just pick one.

If you do the Clomid, you'll need more than what you've laid out to match Nolva....you need about 150mg of Clomid to match 40mg of Nolva.

Clomid would look like this:
WK 1: 150mg/ed   
WK 2: 150mg/ed
WK 3: 100mg/ed
WK 4: 100mg/ed
WK 5: 50mg/ed


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 21, 2012, 01:01:24 PM
I would prefer to use nolvadex, think it would be a better choice.
Arimidex would be used instead of letrozole in case of gyno, what are your thoughts on this?


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: aesthetics on April 21, 2012, 02:03:08 PM
arimidex doesn't do anything for gyno

clomid is definitely superior to nolva for PCT and all things, save for attempting to reverse estrogen gyno (tho, it makes prolactin flareups much, much worse)


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Arnold jr on April 21, 2012, 05:45:59 PM
I would prefer to use nolvadex, think it would be a better choice.
Arimidex would be used instead of letrozole in case of gyno, what are your thoughts on this?

Nolva or Clomid will work for PCT...a lot of guys have a preference but the best way is to see is to try one and try the other next time. Personally, I prefer Clomid even though it's about the only thing that's ever given me any acne...a little on my shoulders and back. Nothing bad.

Arimidex can protect you from gyno, I'm not sure why aesthetics is saying it can't. Now, if you get gyno symptoms, Letrozole is the only thing that stands a chance of subsiding them.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: aesthetics on April 21, 2012, 06:41:39 PM
i didn't say it can't "protect" or "prevent" but once gyno sets in arimidex will do nothing about the gyno.



Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Arnold jr on April 21, 2012, 08:21:21 PM
i didn't say it can't "protect" or "prevent" but once gyno sets in arimidex will do nothing about the gyno.



Yes, I agree with that. Letro is the only thing that can help once you have symptoms but Adex will normally protect...not always but usually.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 22, 2012, 12:26:46 AM
As far as i know

Letrozole is used do prevent gyno when symptoms show, but its also much stronger.
Arimidex is better to use as a preventive in case you already know that you suffer from estrogenic side effects are not wanted.

correct me if I'm wrong


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 22, 2012, 08:08:50 AM
The plan is to run this basic Test prop Cycle 8weeks,  if everything goes according to plan i will be off for about 10-12 weeks then run my next cycle.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Arnold jr on April 22, 2012, 09:22:48 AM
ive been on for a year straight, came off cold turkey with no pct, took about 2-3 months to get back to normal.the sex drive and having full rpoper hardons etc i mean.

will have full bloodwork done tomorow to see how everything else looks.



This is what I don't understand. Why not run the PCT then? If you had, you wouldn't have had that 2-3 month period it took to "get back to normal." Your sex drive and function would have been fine the entire time.

If you're going to be off-cycle for a while, there's simply no logical reason whatsoever for not running a PCT plan.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 22, 2012, 10:58:58 AM
it was just as I had thought, i will run the PCT after the cycle,  the plan is to be off for about 10-12 weeks but it may also be for a longer time..


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 22, 2012, 11:19:27 AM
OK

when i put it all togther, it would be like this.

(8weeks Test Propionate) 100mg EOD. Cycle start 1 MAY.

•Mon - 100mg Test. Propionate
•Wed - 100mg Test. Propionate
•Fri - 100mg Test. Propionate
•Sun - 100mg Test. Propionate

Letrozole in case of gyno 0,5mg eod will adjust it if so is needed( bloodwork)

PCT starts 3 days after last shot 5weeks Nolvadex.

PCT: Nolvadex
WK 1: 40mg/ed   
WK 2: 40mg/ed
WK 3: 20mg/ed
WK 4: 20mg/ed
WK 5: 10mg/ed

What are you thoughts on this??


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: randy841 on April 22, 2012, 12:10:57 PM

...

My main goal is to try gain lean quality mass as possible,and learn how my body responds on gear , since this is my first cycle its very important.

...

Trenbolone Acetate has also been very interestning for me, have not done any serious research on it yet.
Many told me to stay away from it for the first cycle.

I think that it maybe is to advanced to stack it with Test Prop in my first cycle, and to run just Tren A might not be the best thing to do?

Seems that (aesthetics) and (abijahmaniaco) have som great experience.

You're a first timer, there is nothing wrong with a test only cycle. Bloat can be kept in control. Watch your carbs or/and simply throw in .25-.50mg Arimidex eod if need be.

No need to go balls out as some suggest the first time around with Tren, Proviron, or masteron.  It is rather futile and ill-advised to even suggest to newbies to start stacking. Learn to see your response, then start adding different compounds. Personally, i just recently finished (on 2nd cycle) Test E, Tren E - had no issues except insomnia. In the 3 months i used it, i only slept well probably 9 times. There are others who experience more than just the insomnia, so save the Tren for another cycle.

No need throw in everything, but the kitchen sink.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: randy841 on April 22, 2012, 12:35:12 PM
What do you guys think about my Pct? I personally do not think it is necessary with HCG during my cycle relatively low dose.

Also got my gear 2 days ago.

10mlx4 amps Test prop
200 tabs Nolvadex and Clomid
50 tabs Arimidex

ready to go...

No need for the Clomid. It is a rather mild cycle, just go with the Nolva.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Domthemilky on April 22, 2012, 12:40:15 PM
Can someone explain to me how nolva and arimidex differ? im not currently running nolva when on my test cycle but i think i am prone to the sides of estrogen. nipples are already pretty sore. would it be worth picking up some nolva and running it my entire cycle?


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Arnold jr on April 22, 2012, 12:55:43 PM
OK

when i put it all togther, it would be like this.

(8weeks Test Propionate) 100mg EOD. Cycle start 1 MAY.

•Mon - 100mg Test. Propionate
•Wed - 100mg Test. Propionate
•Fri - 100mg Test. Propionate
•Sun - 100mg Test. Propionate

Letrozole in case of gyno 0,5mg eod will adjust it if so is needed( bloodwork)

PCT starts 3 days after last shot 5weeks Nolvadex.

PCT: Nolvadex
WK 1: 40mg/ed   
WK 2: 40mg/ed
WK 3: 20mg/ed
WK 4: 20mg/ed
WK 5: 10mg/ed

What are you thoughts on this??

Looks fine.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Arnold jr on April 22, 2012, 01:01:40 PM
Can someone explain to me how nolva and arimidex differ? im not currently running nolva when on my test cycle but i think i am prone to the sides of estrogen. nipples are already pretty sore. would it be worth picking up some nolva and running it my entire cycle?

Arimidex is an Aromatase Inhibitor (AI), whereas Nolvadex is a Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator (SERM).

AI's function by inhibiting the aromatase process from occurring, and they lower the body's estrogen levels. They can also combat against progesterone.

SERM's function by binding to the receptor thereby preventing estrogen from binding; they do not inhibit aromatase, drop estrogen levels or do anything to combat progesterone.

SERM's can work for gyno prevention, some guys find it won't work though and only an AI will. Of course, an AI is going to help with water retention, a SERM won't, and an AI is also going to help with blood pressure as excess estrogen and water retention can increase blood pressure...SERM's won't help in this case.

Of course, AI's can have a negative impact on your cholesterol in a way SERM's cannot, and this makes not overdoing it important....it really makes your diet important. Live a lifestyle that promotest the continuation of good cholesterol levels and do not get insanely retarded with yoru AI and steroid doses and most adult men will be fine. Eating plenty of omega fatty acids is always a good idea as this will raise HDL levels, and as HDL cholesterol regulates LDL cholesterol this will improve your total reading.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 22, 2012, 01:20:33 PM

I really appreciate all the help i get from you guys very grateful.  Since this is my first cycle i want to make sure that everything is as good as possible.
I have done  research and  read some books, but it can not be compared with personal experience.

Thanks


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 24, 2012, 07:48:52 AM
Hi

just talked with my supplier, and got some bad news i would take a while for me to get Letrozole, and i dont want to wait.. :'(

What are your thoughts, should i start my cycle anyway with Arimidex on hand or wait for letro??


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Overload on April 24, 2012, 10:22:35 AM
Hi

just talked with my supplier, and got some bad news i would take a while for me to get Letrozole, and i dont want to wait.. :'(

What are your thoughts, should i start my cycle anyway with Arimidex on hand or wait for letro??

Adex is fine.

I would go for it and keep the Adex ready, but i seriously doubt you will need it.

Good luck!


8)


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 24, 2012, 12:23:51 PM
thanks, just a little worried if the gyno sets in.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: DK II on April 25, 2012, 03:55:10 AM
thanks, just a little worried if the gyno sets in.

 ::) ::) ::) ::)


Calm down.



Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on April 25, 2012, 12:15:50 PM
OK ready to go ;D


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on May 02, 2012, 08:53:57 AM
Hi guys ,was planing to star my cycle this week but some things got in the way, will start next week.

This week a was working a bit with my new nutrition plan will increase my daily calorie intake to 3000 kcal.

Meal 1: 75g Oats, 200g eggwhites, 1/2 grape ,omega 3 and multivitamins.
Meal 2: 150g Brown rice+150g chicken breast+broccoli.
Meal 3: 150g Brown rice+150g chicken+broccoli+Almonds.
Meal 4: 150g whole wheat pasta+180g salomo+ asparus.
Meal 5:350g sweet potato+chicken+omega 3
Meal 6:Cottage cheese 200g+almonds.

Total Protein about 200g, carbs 500g, fat 40-50g. Will try this out
for a few weeks to see how my body reacts, if its to much i will cut down about 500kcal.

 ;D


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on May 06, 2012, 02:33:36 AM
Hii

will start my cycle tomorrow, just have some questions.
Since i will pin EOD for 8weeks, i have some thoughts about the injection places. I will start with the glute and suppose that it will be irritated after a while, then i will cahnge to the next side. Wonder if i shuold vary the injection spots for a sample. Different places through the weeks delts, lat,pec,bicep  or can i only go for the glutes??
•Mon - 100mg Test. Propionate
•Wed - 100mg Test. Propionate
•Fri - 100mg Test. Propionate
•Sun - 100mg Test. Propionate


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: Overload on May 12, 2012, 08:38:22 AM
Hii

will start my cycle tomorrow, just have some questions.
Since i will pin EOD for 8weeks, i have some thoughts about the injection places. I will start with the glute and suppose that it will be irritated after a while, then i will cahnge to the next side. Wonder if i shuold vary the injection spots for a sample. Different places through the weeks delts, lat,pec,bicep  or can i only go for the glutes??
•Mon - 100mg Test. Propionate
•Wed - 100mg Test. Propionate
•Fri - 100mg Test. Propionate
•Sun - 100mg Test. Propionate


Rotate as much as possible to prevent build up.

My favorite places to shoot are: delts, ventro glute, glutes, lats, pecs and quads.

No reason to only shoot glutes if you are going to be shooting several times a week.

Good luck!


8)


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on May 13, 2012, 06:28:53 AM
Thanks, i have been on 100mg Test prop and 0,25mg eod arimidex for 1 week now, so far so good(=
Just have some thoughts abou the arimidex. Lets say I'm beginning to get sore nipples
so i increases the dose to 0,5mg ed until it ends is this a good idea? or shuld i use Nolvadex?

What are you thoughts?



Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: DK II on May 14, 2012, 03:46:27 AM
Thanks, i have been on 100mg Test prop and 0,25mg eod arimidex for 1 week now, so far so good(=
Just have some thoughts abou the arimidex. Lets say I'm beginning to get sore nipples
so i increases the dose to 0,5mg ed until it ends is this a good idea? or shuld i use Nolvadex?

What are you thoughts?



I don't get you guys starting cyucles directly with Arimidex....

Nipples may be a little bit sensitive in the beginning of a cycle, but that does not mean you get gyno.

Why the fuck someone would take cancer medication for women when it is not necessary at all is beyond me.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: trapz101 on May 14, 2012, 03:53:18 AM
I don't get you guys starting cyucles directly with Arimidex....

Nipples may be a little bit sensitive in the beginning of a cycle, but that does not mean you get gyno.

Why the fuck someone would take cancer medication for women when it is not necessary at all is beyond me.

yeah,towards the end of my cycle i got some kind of 'gyno',no itch no sensitive just a 'lump' behind the left nipple and its gone few weeks after my cycle ended...
some people are just too paranoid i guess....


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: DK II on May 14, 2012, 04:26:50 AM
yeah,towards the end of my cycle i got some kind of 'gyno',no itch no sensitive just a 'lump' behind the left nipple and its gone few weeks after my cycle ended...
some people are just too paranoid i guess....


This.

Too afraid of the side effects, they do a 6 week cycle on tamox and wonder why they don't gain shit.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: LittleJ on May 14, 2012, 06:16:07 AM

This.

Too afraid of the side effects, they do a 6 week cycle on tamox and wonder why they don't gain shit.


Don't you take it with hrt?


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on May 14, 2012, 10:44:31 AM
Sice im prone to gyno,had sore nipples as hell during puberty its better to be on the safe side.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: DK II on May 15, 2012, 05:40:56 AM
Don't you take it with hrt?

HRT?? lol


No I don't take cancer medicine.


Sice im prone to gyno,had sore nipples as hell during puberty its better to be on the safe side.

Why don't you just try it and WHEN you feel a lump start the anti-e, not put it into your body on a wild guess.


Anyways, I would rather add some masteron than take cancer medicine for women, seriously guys those anti-es fuck you up worse than steroids.


Title: Re: My first cycle total plan and stat, feedback.
Post by: IZO on May 15, 2012, 05:43:04 AM
Thats a good point.