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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: King Shizzo on June 23, 2012, 03:09:21 PM
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I just read a story about an Iraq war veteran, who had to sell his medal on ebay. He was broke, and wanted to get enough money to buy a lawnmower, so he could start a landscaping business. The people responded, and the listing ended at 5,800+ dollars.
I think that it is pathetic it had to come to this. I think 4 year vets should get 10k a year for the rest of their lives. I think 8 year vets should get 30k etc.... These fuckers put their life on the line for us. They shouldn't have to put 20 years behind enemy lines for a fucking retirement package.
Either that, or bump every soldiers pay to 50,000 mininum every year. I'm sure our goverment is wasting money elsewhere.
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I support our troops 100% but becoming a "soldier" requires little qualification and they are given housing and food allowances, on top of signing bonuses, free future education, etc. I know soldiers with free undergrad and GRAD school, ON TOP of housing allowance after they were in the service. The system is put into place for these guys to do something with their lives after the service. If they decide not too, it isn't my job to pay a retired vet 10k a year. My dad was actually in Vietnam and he doesn't expect government handouts from a job he did 40 years ago.
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yes!
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People with all different kind of jobs risk their lives every day and some even do it for 30+ years.
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People with all different kind of jobs risk their lives every day and some even do it for 30+ years.
I think all vets should get a little something guaranteed. Free education obviously doesn't mean shit today, with the job market as it is.
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I support our troops 100% but becoming a "soldier" requires little qualification and they are given housing and food allowances, on top of signing bonuses, free future education, etc. I know soldiers with free undergrad and GRAD school, ON TOP of housing allowance after they were in the service. The system is put into place for these guys to do something with their lives after the service. If they decide not too, it isn't my job to pay a retired vet 10k a year. My dad was actually in Vietnam and he doesn't expect government handouts from a job he did 40 years ago.
I think a soldier should earn more then a retail manager (not even a store manager)
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the veitnam vets really got screwed :(
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If the economy was booming then yes, give more back. The reality is the gov't can't afford to support any more people. The only monetary changes should be in the form of cuts.
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If the economy was booming then yes, give more back. The reality is the gov't can't afford to support any more people. The only monetary changes should be in the form of cuts.
Bullshit. I'm sure the goverment can cut back on some of the bullshit spending that they do. Like some of Obama's legendary vacations. They are reported to cost millions of dollars each, with all the prep and securtity etc..... They can easily cut the bullshit out of the spending. The army is the artery of America.
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No.
Members of the military receive comprehensive healthcare for themselves and their dependents. Under the GI Bill they receive (on average) $73k in tuition credits to get a college education. Bush signed a new law in 2008 that adds to this number for those who served after 9/11.
Salaries aren't high but when non-cash benefits are factored in, military personnel have comparable total compensation to members of the private sector with similar skills and education. The CBO did a study on compensation in the military and found that a 20 year old high school graduate earned about $33K in cash compensation and a further $28K in non-cash and deferred benefits. Your average E-6 with 12 years of service gets $96K in total compensation.
Then, there are re-enlistment bonuses, bonuses for NCO's who receive training in certain specialties (CSRB's - Critical Skills Retention Bonuses), and further benefits for actually serving in a warzone. These wartime bonuses include tax-free combat pay and Family Separation Allowances for those with families.
Finally, military personnel with the requisite amount of experience are often poached by private contractors, where they will make even more money.
Anybody who enters a compensation scheme like this and ends up broke and selling medals on ebay has some extreme problems attributable to him and him alone. He has my sympathy but the system is not to blame for his predicament.
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No.
Members of the military receive comprehensive healthcare for themselves and their dependents. Under the GI Bill they receive (on average) $73k in tuition credits to get a college education. Bush signed a new law in 2008 that adds to this number for those who served after 9/11.
Salaries aren't high but when non-cash benefits are factored in, military personnel have comparable total compensation to members of the private sector with similar skills and education. The CBO did a study on compensation and found that a 20 year old high school graduate earned about $33K in cash compensation and a further $28K in non-cash and deferred benefits. Your average E-6 with 12 years of service gets $96K in total compensation.
Finally, there are re-enlistment bonuses, bonuses for NCO's who receive training in certain specialties (CSRB's - Critical Skills Retention Bonuses), and further benefits for actually serving in a warzone. These wartime bonuses include tax-free combat pay and Family Separation Allowances for those with families.
Finally, military personnel with the requisite amount of experience are often poached by private contractors, where they will make even more money.
Anybody who enters a compensation scheme like this and ends up broke and selling medals on ebay has some extreme problems attributable to him and him alone.
/thread
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No.
Members of the military receive comprehensive healthcare for themselves and their dependents. Under the GI Bill they receive (on average) $73k in tuition credits to get a college education. Bush signed a new law in 2008 that adds to this number for those who served after 9/11.
Salaries aren't high but when non-cash benefits are factored in, military personnel have comparable total compensation to members of the private sector with similar skills and education. The CBO did a study on compensation and found that a 20 year old high school graduate earned about $33K in cash compensation and a further $28K in non-cash and deferred benefits. Your average E-6 with 12 years of service gets $96K in total compensation.Finally, there are re-enlistment bonuses, bonuses for NCO's who receive training in certain specialties (CSRB's - Critical Skills Retention Bonuses), and further benefits for actually serving in a warzone. These wartime bonuses include tax-free combat pay and Family Separation Allowances for those with families.
Finally, military personnel with the requisite amount of experience are often poached by private contractors, where they will make even more money.
Anybody who enters a compensation scheme like this and ends up broke and selling medals on ebay has some extreme problems attributable to him and him alone.
A 12 year vet should get that much. That's 12 years in the line of fire.
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/thread
Hi Syntax.
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A 12 year vet should get that much. That's 12 years in the line of fire.
Who do you know that has spent 12 years straight in Iraq?
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Yeah, definatley dont think we should recieve a lifelong pension just for serving.
This is coming from someone who served.
People that make it long enough to retire recieve a pretty decent retirement anyway.
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Who do you know that has spent 12 years straight in Iraq?
I know that we are not constantly at war. It is the fact that they can be called upon at any moment to sacrifice their lives.
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I know that we are not constantly at war. It is the fact that they can be called upon at any moment to sacrifice their lives.
I still registered for the draft.. so can I. And there are certain things that will limit the number of tours you do and time you actually spend in combat. Next argument.
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Yeah, definatley dont think we should recieve a lifelong pension just for serving.
This is coming from someone who served.
People that make it long enough to retire recieve a pretty decent retirement anyway.
I can respect your assesment. What are the retirement packages? I think they should get something more then just a free education. A degree doesn't get you anywhere these days.
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Yeah, definatley dont think we should recieve a lifelong pension just for serving.
This is coming from someone who served.
People that make it long enough to retire recieve a pretty decent retirement anyway.
I don't know how much they make, but I have a couple friends who dads were in the military for their entire career and retired.. from the looks of things they are definitely "ok", one actually was able to send 4 kids to my high school which was $6500 a year each. All of them had very nice homes and newer cars. I know that doesn't say much about their financial status these days but it shows these guys aren't on the street.
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the veitnam vets really got screwed :(
BIGTIME !! :(
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I don't know how much they make, but I have a couple friends who dads were in the military for their entire career and retired.. from the looks of things they are definitely "ok", one actually was able to send 4 kids to my high school which was $6500 a year each. All of them had very nice homes and newer cars. I know that doesn't say much about their financial status these days but it shows these guys aren't on the street.
Yeah but most of the guys who are high ranks, never really see the field right? Maybe they should factor in a percentage of how long you were actually out in combat. I don't think a dude sitting behind a desk should get more then a guy who has done 3+ tours.
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Yeah but most of the guys who are high ranks, never really see the field right? Maybe they should factor in a percentage of how long you were actually out in combat. I don't think a dude sitting behind a desk should get more then a guy who has done 3+ tours.
Some of those guys are a lot more instrumental in the art of war than the guys actually in combat. The intelligence guys are a huge advantage and can be the difference between winning or losing or saving thousands of lives. The military is way to complex now.. it isn't the 1700's where guys just line up and fire at each other.
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Some of those guys are a lot more instrumental in the art of war than the guys actually in combat. The intelligence guys are a huge advantage and can be the difference between winning or losing or saving thousands of lives.
You guys have valid points. The whole point of this thread was to hear both sides. I think they can spend a a little less on multi million dollar missiles, and mega million jets and tanks etc.... Filter some of that money back into the backbone of the army.
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Yeah but most of the guys who are high ranks, never really see the field right? Maybe they should factor in a percentage of how long you were actually out in combat. I don't think a dude sitting behind a desk should get more then a guy who has done 3+ tours.
Well, the higher guys were the lower guys at one point. They very well may have had to been in the field when they were a lower rank.
Infantry officers have to lead a platoon before they can move on to commanding a company, and on to a battalion, etc, etc.
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Well, the higher guys were the lower guys at one point. They very well may have had to been in the field when they were a lower rank.
Infantry officers have to lead a platoon before they can move on to commanding a company, and on to a battalion, etc, etc.
Depends. My cousin says that they hate fucking higher ups that come straight from school, that have never seen the field. He said they don't respect them. You should definately have field exp. before you can get promoted in the Army.
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You guys have valid points. The whole point of this thread was to hear both sides. I think they can spend a a little less on multi million dollar missiles, and mega million jets and tanks etc.... Filter some of that money back into the backbone of the army.
I'd prefer they took the money from welfare and other abused systems in America over the actual military.
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I'd prefer they took the money from welfare and other abused systems in America over the actual military.
Another good point. How many missiles, tanks, stealth bombers, etc... do we really need though? They cost an absurd amount of money. All of the other countries are leagues behind us when it comes to tech. It's becoming overkill.
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I just read a story about an Iraq war veteran, who had to sell his medal on ebay. He was broke, and wanted to get enough money to buy a lawnmower, so he could start a landscaping business. The people responded, and the listing ended at 5,800+ dollars.
I think that it is pathetic it had to come to this. I think 4 year vets should get 10k a year for the rest of their lives. I think 8 year vets should get 30k etc.... These fuckers put their life on the line for us. They shouldn't have to put 20 years behind enemy lines for a fucking retirement package.
Either that, or bump every soldiers pay to 50,000 mininum every year. I'm sure our goverment is wasting money elsewhere.
Remember that the next time you hear the empty phrase "support our troops." You don't support the troops by sending them to sacrifice their lives unnecessarily as we did in Iraq. And you don't support them by discarding them when they return from combat and exit the service.
On the other hand, you don't make nails out of your best steel and you don't make soldiers out of your best men. By deed our society has shown that we consider soldiers disposable. Knowing that why would one elect to go into military service? ::)
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What the US military should do is take Domestic Violence seriously and offer some help to the enlisted people and their spouses. It is a HUGE problem that they gloss over.
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Depends. My cousin says that they hate fucking higher ups that come straight from school, that have never seen the field. He said they don't respect them. You should definately have field exp. before you can get promoted in the Army.
Yeah, those are junior officers. They have to command a platoon before they can move up. Theyre supposed to listen to their NCO's (who have the experience), even though technically they outrank them.
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Remember that the next time you hear the empty phrase "support our troops." You don't support the troops by sending them to sacrifice their lives unnecessarily as we did in Iraq. And you don't support them by discarding them when they return from combat and exit the service.
On the other hand, you don't make nails out of your best steel and you don't make soldiers out of your best men. By deed our society has shown that we consider soldiers disposable. Knowing that why would one elect to go into military service? ::)
Believe it or not, some of us actually know this and still elected to enlist.
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Remember that the next time you hear the empty phrase "support our troops." You don't support the troops by sending them to sacrifice their lives unnecessarily as we did in Iraq. And you don't support them by discarding them when they return from combat and exit the service.
On the other hand, you don't make nails out of your best steel and you don't make soldiers out of your best men. By deed our society has shown that we consider soldiers disposable. Knowing that why would one elect to go into military service? ::)
The military is just like any other sector. It has a cross-section of the human population. You have some brilliant minds, and you have your morons. They all have to have some level of courage however.
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Universal Healthcare for Dogs would be cool!
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no in fact the federal government needs to shut the fuck up and stop wasting everyone's money especially on fucking retarded people who thought it would be a good idea to fight wars
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I think any vet that has been in harms way(seen real action) should be given free medical, food and housing vouchers for life. Then maybe the scumbag politicians will think twice about just putting any and all souls in the line of fire for next to no reason.
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I think any vet that has been in harms way(seen real action) should be given free medical, food and housing vouchers for life. Then maybe the scumbag politicians will think twice about just putting any and all souls in the line of fire for next to no reason.
They wont think twice. Its what politicians do (use any and all resources available to accomplish their goals).
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How the hell did active U.S. Navy Seals have the time to shoot a movie? Why would they broadcast what they look like so openly?
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Yeah, definatley dont think we should recieve a lifelong pension just for serving.
This is coming from someone who served.
People that make it long enough to retire recieve a pretty decent retirement anyway.
I don't know about the US, but in the UK we get paid ok money and if youre single living on base your overheads are fuck all.
The problem is when you get out and have to live in the real world again.
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How the hell did active U.S. Navy Seals have the time to shoot a movie? Why would they broadcast what they look like so openly?
They did it between deployments, and the US Navy basically had them do it as a "recruitment" movie.
They only showed a few faces anyway, so its probably not that huge of a deal, especially since they probably wear their balaclava half the time in the field anyway.
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The military is just like any other sector. It has a cross-section of the human population. You have some brilliant minds, and you have your morons. They all have to have some level of courage however.
This is an interesting thread. I am not American but I watch the American news every night. From what I understand a large portion of the troops were made up of National Guard. When these guys and girls signed up they never thought that they would ever be sent over to a combat zone. I'm sure a lot of them thought that they would just do some war type exercises once a month for some easy money with no real danger. You know, a chance to get out of the house and away from the wife and have some fun.
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Fuck dogs. These mother-Fockers should be ran over on sight.
A choice between you and a dog... not much to think about.
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I support our troops 100% but becoming a "soldier" requires little qualification and they are given housing and food allowances, on top of signing bonuses, free future education, etc. I know soldiers with free undergrad and GRAD school, ON TOP of housing allowance after they were in the service. The system is put into place for these guys to do something with their lives after the service. If they decide not too, it isn't my job to pay a retired vet 10k a year. My dad was actually in Vietnam and he doesn't expect government handouts from a job he did 40 years ago.
x2, vets get enough handouts.
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Remember that the next time you hear the empty phrase "support our troops." You don't support the troops by sending them to sacrifice their lives unnecessarily as we did in Iraq. And you don't support them by discarding them when they return from combat and exit the service.
On the other hand, you don't make nails out of your best steel and you don't make soldiers out of your best men. By deed our society has shown that we consider soldiers disposable. Knowing that why would one elect to go into military service? ::)
I consider you a respectable person.
The first half of your post I agreed with quite a bit.
I don't understand, nor do I appreciate, the second half, especially the eye roll.
I signed up for the Army in 2002, and I'll tell you why I did it. I felt there was a credible threat to the people I loved in this world and I wanted to do something about it. It was more important to me that their lives continued than my own. You can look back on the last decade with perfect clarity, but I didn't have that luxury at the time.
Although I only did one tour (Afghanistan), I'm proud of myself and people like me, who gave their best with the information they had at the time.
As to the OP, it's an interesting proposition, but given the current fiscal state of my country, I would have to say no. The military gives you great tools to maximize your future, so long as you're willing to keep working hard. I'm proud to say that I did. I went to college on the GI Bill and have a career that I love.
What I would like to see more of is help with veterans who are homeless, very poor or are have mental problems (namely PTSD and TBI).
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I would also like the war in Afghanistan to end, for the record.
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I consider you a respectable person.
The first half of your post I agreed with quite a bit.
I don't understand, nor do I appreciate, the second half, especially the eye roll.
I signed up for the Army in 2002, and I'll tell you why I did it. I felt there was a credible threat to the people I loved in this world and I wanted to do something about it. It was more important to me that their lives continued than my own. You can look back on the last decade with perfect clarity, but I didn't have that luxury at the time.
Although I only did one tour (Afghanistan), I'm proud of myself and people like me, who gave their best with the information they had at the time.
As to the OP, it's an interesting proposition, but given the current fiscal state of my country, I would have to say no. The military gives you great tools to maximize your future, so long as you're willing to keep working hard. I'm proud to say that I did. I went to college on the GI Bill and have a career that I love.
What I would like to see more of is help with veterans who are homeless, very poor or are have mental problems (namely PTSD and TBI).
Good post. Still a meltdown ;)
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Nobody forced the fuckers to travel overseas and kill men, women and children so there government could secure some resources to satisfy it's country addictions! Grunts should know what to expect, do you really think if there government doesn't give a fuck about killing hundreds of thousands of innocent citizens in far off places, what makes them think they give a fuck about grunts! Stupid grunts!
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Nobody forced the fuckers to travel overseas and kill men, women and children so there government could secure some resources to satisfy it's country addictions! Grunts should know what to expect, do you really think if there government doesn't give a fuck about killing hundreds of thousands of innocent citizens in far off places, what makes them think they give a fuck about grunts! Stupid grunts!
As harsh as this post comes across, you do have a valid point.
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Nobody forced the fuckers to travel overseas and kill men, women and children so there government could secure some resources to satisfy it's country addictions! Grunts should know what to expect, do you really think if there government doesn't give a fuck about killing hundreds of thousands of innocent citizens in far off places, what makes them think they give a fuck about grunts! Stupid grunts!
*sigh*
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cO0IpLClLOQ/TG3R2nv5aJI/AAAAAAAABw0/Gx4twEFTsao/s1600/Facepalm.jpg)
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Nobody forced the fuckers to travel overseas and kill men, women and children so there government could secure some resources to satisfy it's country addictions! Grunts should know what to expect, do you really think if there government doesn't give a fuck about killing hundreds of thousands of innocent citizens in far off places, what makes them think they give a fuck about grunts! Stupid grunts!
When you take an extremist attitude, you never really care about the truth.
Just your position.
It's the same with religion.
Once I saw that you posted there is some systematic rape program by the military. That is pattently untrue. But you might as well be 333386 because you are no longer looking for the truth, you simply seek to reinforce your radical position with anything you can find.
You might as well be a fundamentalist religious nut.
You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the ass.
BTW, it will eventually.
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When you take an extremist attitude, you never really care about the truth.
Just your position.
It's the same with religion.
Once I saw that you posted there is some systematic rape program by the military. That is pattently untrue. But you might as well be 333386 because you are no longer looking for the truth, you simply seek to reinforce your radical position with anything you can find.
You might as well be a fundamentalist religious nut.
You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the ass.
BTW, it will eventually.
Most of us look through a narrow tunnel when it comes to our beliefs. As much as we hate the Taliban (for example), we have to understand that they were brought up differently. They think our customs/way of life are just as alien as we do theirs.
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When you take an extremist attitude, you never really care about the truth.
Just your position.
It's the same with religion.
Once I saw that you posted there is some systematic rape program by the military. That is pattently untrue. But you might as well be 333386 because you are no longer looking for the truth, you simply seek to reinforce your radical position with anything you can find.
You might as well be a fundamentalist religious nut.
You wouldn't know the truth if it bit you in the ass.
BTW, it will eventually.
MAN Getbiggers accuse you of all types of shit, I never said systematic rape, like there is a production line of desirable young iraqi women being processed and raped, but RAPE is a huge part of warfare, it happens all the time, check out this case - the Mahmudiyah killings and gang-rape of a 14-year-old girl by U.S. troops http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_killings , also the heinous sexual abuse and torture of Iraqi POW's at the notorious Abu Ghraib prison, now if you think these are isolated incidents, you are naive - the truth is the US Government has killed over 1 million Iraqis because they ARE FUNDAMENTALISTS - accuse me of what you like - but if being disgusted by Genocidal Governments committing atrocities in far off places and then brainwashing its public compounding the crime even further - if that is Wrong - I am proudly guilty of it - FuCK the USA and fuck there stupid brainwashed GRUNTS they use for killing men, women and children for reasons there brains are too small too comprehend!
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MAN Getbiggers accuse you of all types of shit, I never said systematic rape, like there is a production line of desirable young iraqi women being processed and raped, but RAPE is a huge part of warfare, it happens all the time, check out this case - the Mahmudiyah killings and gang-rape of a 14-year-old girl by U.S. troops http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahmudiyah_killings , also the heinous sexual abuse and torture of Iraqi POW's at the notorious Abu Ghraib prison, now if you think these are isolated incidents, you are naive - the truth is the US Government has killed over 1 million Iraqis because they ARE FUNDAMENTALISTS - accuse me of what you like - but if being disgusted by Genocidal Governments committing atrocities in far off places and then brainwashing its public compounding the crime even further - if that is Wrong - I am proudly guilty of it - FuCK the USA and fuck there stupid brainwashed GRUNTS they use for killing men, women and children for reasons there brains are too small too comprehend!
You go bro, you've clearly more intelligent than everyone and got it all figured out, keep on preaching, those evil brainwashed Americans got nothing on you posting from your computer letting the world know how it REALLY is straight from Australia via GETBIG.COM!
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You go bro, you've clearly more intelligent than everyone and got it all figured out, keep on preaching, those evil brainwashed Americans got nothing on you posting from your computer letting the world know how it REALLY is straight from Australia via GETBIG.COM!
Your welcome bro, I am sure the Getbiggers enjoy a dose of truth, and not some brainwashed patriotic killers spreading there propaganda and overt lies to fuel a sick twisted agenda - Say hi to your MUM for me!
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
new photographs were sent to La Voz de Aztlan from confidential sources depicting the shocking rapes of two Iraqi women by what are purported to be US Military Intelligence personnel and private US mercenaries in military fatigues. It is now known that hundreds of these photographs had been in circulation among the troops in Iraq. The graphic photos were being swapped between the soldiers like baseball cards.
Speaking on condition of anonymity, one Mexican-American soldier told La Voz de Aztlan, "Maybe the officers didn't know what was going on, but everybody else did. I have seen literally hundreds of these types of pictures." Many of the pictures was destroyed last September when the luggage of soldiers was searched as they left Iraq
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
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I just read a story about an Iraq war veteran, who had to sell his medal on ebay. He was broke, and wanted to get enough money to buy a lawnmower, so he could start a landscaping business. The people responded, and the listing ended at 5,800+ dollars.
I think that it is pathetic it had to come to this. I think 4 year vets should get 10k a year for the rest of their lives. I think 8 year vets should get 30k etc.... These fuckers put their life on the line for us. They shouldn't have to put 20 years behind enemy lines for a fucking retirement package.
Either that, or bump every soldiers pay to 50,000 mininum every year. I'm sure our goverment is wasting money elsewhere.
Best thing for this guy would have been to take advantage of the GI bill and get his college for free.
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Your welcome bro, I am sure the Getbiggers enjoy a dose of truth, and not some brainwashed patriotic killers spreading there propaganda and overt lies to fuel a sick twisted agenda - Say hi to your MUM for me!
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
new photographs were sent to La Voz de Aztlan from confidential sources depicting the shocking rapes of two Iraqi women by what are purported to be US Military Intelligence personnel and private US mercenaries in military fatigues. It is now known that hundreds of these photographs had been in circulation among the troops in Iraq. The graphic photos were being swapped between the soldiers like baseball cards.
Speaking on condition of anonymity, one Mexican-American soldier told La Voz de Aztlan, "Maybe the officers didn't know what was going on, but everybody else did. I have seen literally hundreds of these types of pictures." Many of the pictures was destroyed last September when the luggage of soldiers was searched as they left Iraq
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
Terrible things happen in war. If you think what has happened in these wars are so bad, you clearly dont pay attention to history.
BTW, good job lumping everyone in with the actions of an extremely tiny minority.
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Your welcome bro, I am sure the Getbiggers enjoy a dose of truth, and not some brainwashed patriotic killers spreading there propaganda and overt lies to fuel a sick twisted agenda - Say hi to your MUM for me!
[ Invalid YouTube link ]
new photographs were sent to La Voz de Aztlan from confidential sources depicting the shocking rapes of two Iraqi women by what are purported to be US Military Intelligence personnel and private US mercenaries in military fatigues. It is now known that hundreds of these photographs had been in circulation among the troops in Iraq. The graphic photos were being swapped between the soldiers like baseball cards.
Speaking on condition of anonymity, one Mexican-American soldier told La Voz de Aztlan, "Maybe the officers didn't know what was going on, but everybody else did. I have seen literally hundreds of these types of pictures." Many of the pictures was destroyed last September when the luggage of soldiers was searched as they left Iraq
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities.
Voltaire
French author, humanist, rationalist, & satirist (1694 - 1778)
E-Kul, let's get one thing straight. You are Australian and some of us are American. Do you see how we could get defensive by the way you word some of your posts? I respect your opinions as a non American, but it does sting us when the obvious anti U.S. slander comes out.
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E-Kul, let's get one thing straight. You are Australian and some of us are American. Do you see how we could get defensive by the way you word some of your posts? I respect your opinions as a non American, but it does sting us when the obvious anti U.S. slander comes out.
Meh, dudes just ignorant. He takes the actions of a few and uses a broad brush to paint the entire country.
He's trolling, methinks.
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Ah, war veterans...I was wondering what the government got to do with veterinarians... ;D
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E-Kul, let's get one thing straight. You are Australian and some of us are American. Do you see how we could get defensive by the way you word some of your posts? I respect your opinions as a non American, but it does sting us when the obvious anti U.S. slander comes out.
Do you really think I care what a Nation of Nutters think of me, like I care what the average citizen thinks, who because of there apathy say and do nothing when the attrocities and proof of them, keep on coming, and coming, and coming.... pardon the pun. It is not slanderous if it is the truth - I am also an Australian, and ashamed of our own governments complicity in the whole shameful disgusting genocide of the third world. American will go down in History as the most EVIL Nation that ever existed, I have not one doubt in my mind about this, do you think Germany's citizens were aware what was going on while Hitler murdered millions, those dumb fucks had no clue! just like you Americans who act surprised when people attack you for killing millions of people to grow your empire and secure more resources, so go on being offended by people being offended at MASS MURDER. FREAKS!
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Do you really think I care what a Nation of Nutter think of me, like I care what the average citizen, who because of there apathy say and do nothing when the attrocities and proof of them, keep on coming, and coming, and coming.... pardon the pun. It is not slanderous if it is the truth - I am also an Australian, and ashamed of our own governments complicity in the whole shameful disgusting genocide of the third world. American will go down in History as the most EVIL Nation that ever existed, I have not one doubt in my mind about this, do you think Germany's citizens were aware what was going on while Hitler murdered millions, those dumb fucks had no clue! just like you Americans who act surprised when people attack you for killing millions of people to grow your empire and secure more resources, so go on being offended by people being offended at MASS MURDER. FREAKS!
Did you really compare Hitlers genocide of the Jews to the Iraq/Afghanistan war?
Whoo boy. You really are out in lala land.
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Take it easy, Luke.... :(
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Did you really compare Hitlers genocide of the Jews to the Iraq/Afghanistan war?
Whoo boy. You really are out in lala land.
Well, you yanks are over 1 million IRAQI dead and counting - the holocaust is estimated at 6 million - and the Yanks haven't finished yet - I definitely think the two events are more than comparable - The yanks have killed more than 10 million in the last 60 years alone - nothing to be proud of and definitely comparable to the most despotic of Nations that ever existed!
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Well, you yanks are over 1 million IRAQI dead and counting - the holocaust is estimated at 6 million - and the Yanks haven't finished yet - I definitely think the two events are more than comparable - The yanks have killed more than 10 million in the last 60 years alone - nothing to be proud of and definitely comparable to the most despotic of Nations that ever existed!
Youre comparing a WAR, with COMBATANTS, to outright genocide, and yet you justify your comparison by talking about how many people have been killed in the last 6 decades?
Oh boy......
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Meh, dudes just ignorant. He takes the actions of a few and uses a broad brush to paint the entire country.
He's trolling, methinks.
A few, your kidding me aren't you, get informed, The IRAQI people hate you fuckers, did you know that every single IRAQI has lost a family member to the war, can you imagine the US response if someone invaded, and every single person had lost a family member - I think it's time to analyse how brainwashed and indoctrinated you fuckers are and start seeking the truth! IRAQ was almost a 1st world country until you fuckers turned up and decimated the place - those poor fuckers have to pay more than the yanks for there own oil and line up for up for 20 hours to get it - you freaks live in a bubble of your governments creation!
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Well, you yanks are over 1 million IRAQI dead and counting - the holocaust is estimated at 6 million - and the Yanks haven't finished yet - I definitely think the two events are more than comparable - The yanks have killed more than 10 million in the last 60 years alone - nothing to be proud of and definitely comparable to the most despotic of Nations that ever existed!
I do not hate the Germans for what has happened in the past. I'm assuming most of the German troops were against Hitlers agenda as well. Your posts reek of idiocy and blind hate. Imagine how your views would differ if you were born an American.
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Youre comparing a WAR, with COMBATANTS, to outright genocide, and yet you justify your comparison by talking about how many people have been killed in the last 6 decades?
Oh boy......
Freak, there are no combatants the Iraqi army was defeated very quickly, the rest of the time has been the systematic genocide of the IRAQI people, there isn't WAR anymore, remember Shock and Awe (technically known as rapid dominance) is a military doctrine based on the use of overwhelming power, dominant battlefield awareness, dominant maneuvers, and spectacular displays of force to paralyze an adversary's perception of the battlefield and destroy its will to fight. What we have is the complete exploitation of a very weak opponent by a bunch of brainwashed thugs, the fact you even think there is a war going on is ludicrous, those poor fuckers have been completely overwhelmed since day one, that's why they are terrorists they cant afford a TRILLION dollar ARMY!
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A few, your kidding me aren't you, get informed, The IRAQI people hate you fuckers, did you know that every single IRAQI has lost a family member to the war, can you imagine the US response if someone invaded, and every single person had lost a family member - I think it's time to analyse how brainwashed and indoctrinated you fuckers are and start seeking the truth! IRAQ was almost a 1st world country until you fuckers turned up and decimated the place - those poor fuckers have to pay more than the yanks for there own oil and line up for up for 20 hours to get it - you freaks live in a bubble of your governments creation!
Id be interested to hear your sources, cause there is an awful lot of misinformation in your post.
FYI, when we "1st showed up and decimated the place", was back in the early 90's when they INVADED KUWAIT (not to mention they were gassing the fuck out of their own citizens.)
BTW, back then, they had the 4th largest standing army in the world, so its not like we were fighting peasants as you so often like to point out.
Also, I dont give a fuck if the "IRAQI people" hate us (not that you have a fucking clue how they feel), its not a fucking popularity contest. Ive never agreed with the war in Iraq, but youre points are totally blown out of proportion and rediculous, but I wouldnt expect anything else from someone posting out of his basement from half a world away with next to no real world experience.
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I do not hate the Germans for what has happened in the past. I'm assuming most of the German troops were against Hitlers agenda as well. Your posts reek of idiocy and blind hate. Imagine how your views would differ if you were born an American.
Why would I imagine being born American, that would be a fate worse than death! You know what reeks of idiocy and blind hate - the systematic slaughter of the third world and then the justification of it by it's leaders and citizens - I think defending the million innocent Iraqis slaughtered reeks of altruism and compassion, but what do I know - I don't believe in committing atrocities and mass murder for some profit, I must be insane! Crazy, an Idiot for daring to suggest that mass murder for profit is wrong!
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Freak, there are no combatants the Iraqi army was defeated very quickly, the rest of the time has been the systematic genocide of the IRAQI people, there isn't WAR anymore, remember Shock and Awe (technically known as rapid dominance) is a military doctrine based on the use of overwhelming power, dominant battlefield awareness, dominant maneuvers, and spectacular displays of force to paralyze an adversary's perception of the battlefield and destroy its will to fight. What we have is the complete exploitation of a very weak opponent by a bunch of brainwashed thugs, the fact you even think there is a war going on is ludicrous, those poor fuckers have been completely overwhelmed since day one, that's why they are terrorists they cant afford a TRILLION dollar ARMY!
You are sorely misinformed.
Half your post is fucking pointless, your whole "shock and awe" comment has nothing to do with anything that we are discussing.
Yes, there are still combatants. There is still an organizational structure and still people arming themselves and fighting. Thats called war.
Hitler rounded up how many millions of unarmed jews and gassed them?
Yeah, little bit different between fighting someone who is shooting back, and freighting people by train to gas chambers.
Again.. oh boy....
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Why would I imagine being born American, that would be a fate worse than death! You know what reeks of idiocy and blind hate - the systematic slaughter of the third world and then the justification of it by it's leaders and citizens - I think defending the million innocent Iraqis slaughtered reeks of altruism and compassion, but what do I know - I don't believe in committing atrocities and mass murder for some profit, I must be insane! Crazy, an Idiot for daring to suggest that mass murder for profit is wrong!
Take a step back for a second and read what you write. How can you possibly have rational discussions with people? Your hatred shines through. Do you want to know what most Americans think of Australia? An old, prisoner island, filled with kangaroos.
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Id be interested to hear your sources, cause there is an awful lot of misinformation in your post.
FYI, when we "1st showed up and decimated the place", was back in the early 90's when they INVADED KUWAIT (not to mention they were gassing the fuck out of their own citizens.)
BTW, back then, they had the 4th largest standing army in the world, so its not like we were fighting peasants as you so often like to point out.
Also, I dont give a fuck if the "IRAQI people" hate us (not that you have a fucking clue how they feel), its not a fucking popularity contest. Ive never agreed with the war in Iraq, but youre points are totally blown out of proportion and rediculous, but I wouldnt expect anything else from someone posting out of his basement from half a world away with next no real world experience.
Everyone acknowledges that Saddam was a CUN+, and initially the IRAQIS were grateful, until they realised that GEORGE BUSH was ten times the tyrant SADDAM was, anyway, I go easy on the STATES, one of the smartest Americans who ever came out of America states America is the Greatest terrorist state in the world and the greatest threat to world peace. Here are some quotes from the great man
If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged.
Noam Chomsky
Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it.
Noam Chomsky
Empires are costly. Running Iraq is not cheap. Somebody’s paying. Somebody’s paying the corporations that destroyed Iraq and the corporations that are rebuilding it. In both cases, they’re getting paid by the U.S. taxpayer. Those are gifts from U.S. taxpayers to U.S. corporations."
Noam Chomsky
Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.
--NOAM CHOMSKY
There's a good reason why nobody studies history. It just teaches you too much.
--NOAM CHOMSKY
Of course, everybody says they're for peace. Hitler was for peace. Everybody is for peace. The question is: "What kind of peace?"
--NOAM CHOMSKY
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate.
--NOAM CHOMSKY
“Western civilization is anticipating the slaughter of, well do the arithmetic, 3-4 million people or something like that... Looks like what’s happening is some sort of silent genocide... we are in the midst of apparently trying to murder 3 or 4 million people...”
NOAM CHOMSKY
"I think we can be reasonably confident that if the American population had the slightest idea of what is being done in their name, they would be utterly appalled."
Noam Chomsky
"The U.S. is the only country condemned by the World Court for international terrorism-for "the unlawful use of force" for political ends."
Noam Chomsky
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Everyone acknowledges that Saddam was a CUN+, and initially the IRAQIS were grateful, until they realised that GEORGE BUSH was ten times the tyrant SADDAM was, anyway, I go easy on the STATES, one of the smartest Americans who ever came out of America states America is the Greatest terrorist state in the world and the greatest threat to world peace. Here are some quotes from the great man
If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged.
Noam Chomsky
Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it.
Noam Chomsky
Empires are costly. Running Iraq is not cheap. Somebody’s paying. Somebody’s paying the corporations that destroyed Iraq and the corporations that are rebuilding it. In both cases, they’re getting paid by the U.S. taxpayer. Those are gifts from U.S. taxpayers to U.S. corporations."
Noam Chomsky
Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.
--NOAM CHOMSKY
There's a good reason why nobody studies history. It just teaches you too much.
--NOAM CHOMSKY
Of course, everybody says they're for peace. Hitler was for peace. Everybody is for peace. The question is: "What kind of peace?"
--NOAM CHOMSKY
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate.
--NOAM CHOMSKY
Do you honestly think that smart Americans pay attention to the media? We know they have an agenda.
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Everyone acknowledges that Saddam was a CUN+, and initially the IRAQIS were grateful, until they realised that GEORGE BUSH was ten times the tyrant SADDAM was, anyway, I go easy on the STATES, one of the smartest Americans who ever came out of America states America is the Greatest terrorist state in the world and the greatest threat to world peace. Here are some quotes from the great man
If the Nuremberg laws were applied, then every post-war American president would have been hanged.
Noam Chomsky
Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it.
Noam Chomsky
Empires are costly. Running Iraq is not cheap. Somebody’s paying. Somebody’s paying the corporations that destroyed Iraq and the corporations that are rebuilding it. In both cases, they’re getting paid by the U.S. taxpayer. Those are gifts from U.S. taxpayers to U.S. corporations."
Noam Chomsky
Either you repeat the same conventional doctrines everybody is saying, or else you say something true, and it will sound like it's from Neptune.
--NOAM CHOMSKY
There's a good reason why nobody studies history. It just teaches you too much.
--NOAM CHOMSKY
Of course, everybody says they're for peace. Hitler was for peace. Everybody is for peace. The question is: "What kind of peace?"
--NOAM CHOMSKY
The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum - even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate.
--NOAM CHOMSKY
You responded to nothing. You made no points. You just copy and pasted the words of another man that you stole for your own opinion; unfortunately for you, this has no bearing on this thread as it means nothing in the context of this debate.
Fail.
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E-Kul definately goes on the short list of Getbiggers who are the easiest to melt.
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*sigh*
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_cO0IpLClLOQ/TG3R2nv5aJI/AAAAAAAABw0/Gx4twEFTsao/s1600/Facepalm.jpg)
That's not Uberman...
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E-Kul definately goes on the short list of Getbiggers who are the easiest to melt.
Melt, I am wringing my hands with glee at cracking the fragile psyches of the brainwashed! How they squirm when they here the Truth - for me my mind is at peace, the truth has a calming effect on a man.
By the power of truth I, while living, have conquered the universe
Artists use lies to tell the truth, while politicians use them to cover the truth up.
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Give E-Kul a chance....... ;)
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You responded to nothing. You made no points. You just copy and pasted the words of another man that you stole for your own opinion; unfortunately for you, this has no bearing on this thread as it means nothing in the context of this debate.
Fail.
I never claimed Noam Chomsky words as my own, that's why his name is at the end of the quotation - was I supposed to respond to something - I am not trying to prove anything, just stating the truth, and the truth always upsets people in denial, if you are curious about what I say, do your own fucking research, like I come here to do a research paper to your satisfaction, it amazes me that the freaks here want proof of others statements, if you find others ideas so absurd, so threatening to your fragile psyche, well, the onus is on you to disprove such claims - personally, I don't give a fuck what a GETBIGGER thinks! - everything I say is easily verifiable with a little research on the Internet, but the average arsehole is too busy on facebook or watching American idol while eating McDonalds to give a fuck to seek a deeper understanding of the world. Like I am going to post footnotes for Idiots on Getbig!
Anyway - I am off to bed, it is 4:45am in the morning here, and you fuckers are getting old real quick!
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Melt, I am wringing my hands with glee at cracking the fragile psyches of the brainwashed! How they squirm when they here the Truth - for me my mind is at peace, the truth has a calming effect on a man.
By the power of truth I, while living, have conquered the universe
Artists use lies to tell the truth, while politicians use them to cover the truth up.
You haven't cracked anything you limp penis.
The only person you are "convincing" is yourself. it's all you ever do, pat yourself on the back like an asshole... because, well...your'e an asshole
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I never claimed Noam Chomsky words as my own, that's why his name is at the end of the quotation - was I supposed to respond to something - I am not trying to prove anything, just stating the truth, and the truth always upsets people in denial, if you are curious about what I say, do your own fucking research, like I come here to do a research paper to your satisfaction, it amazes me that the freaks here want proof of others statements, if you find others ideas so absurd, so threatening to your fragile psyche, well, the onus is on you to disprove such claims - personally, I don't give a fuck what a GETBIGGER thinks! - everything I say is easily verifiable with a little research on the Internet, but the average arsehole is too busy on facebook or watching American idol while eating McDonalds to give a fuck to seek a deeper understanding of the world. Like I am going to post footnotes for Idiots on Getbig!
Anyway - I am off to bed, it is 4:45am in the morning here, and you fuckers are getting old real quick!
Obviously you do, or else you wouldn't be here.
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Melt, I am wringing my hands with glee at cracking the fragile psyches of the brainwashed! How they squirm when they here the Truth - for me my mind is at peace, the truth has a calming effect on a man.
By the power of truth I, while living, have conquered the universe
Artists use lies to tell the truth, while politicians use them to cover the truth up.
What are you blathering on about? You realize one persons reality is another brainwashing, correct? Lol, youre the one comparing the Holocaust to a war, and then further tried to justify it by comparing it to an entire countries war death toll for the last 6 decades. Then, you go one to use a few horrible wartime incidents to try and somehow claim that everyone that chooses to join is somehow a crazed rapist killer. (Not to mention you blatant use of numbers that are incorrect for shock value)
And you call us brainwashed, lol.
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You haven't cracked anything you limp penis.
The only person you are "convincing" is yourself. it's all you ever do, pat yourself on the back like an asshole... because, well...your'e an asshole
Butt Hurt getbiggers, always good for a laugh - and like the old saying goes "If nobody else pats you on the back, do it yourself"
HA HA Goodnight Fuckers - I will leave you with the song written about the average american!
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Well, you yanks are over 1 million IRAQI dead and counting - the holocaust is estimated at 6 million - and the Yanks haven't finished yet - I definitely think the two events are more than comparable - The yanks have killed more than 10 million in the last 60 years alone - nothing to be proud of and definitely comparable to the most despotic of Nations that ever existed!
I don't know where you got 1 million dead. Go to Iraqibodycount.org which is an independant organization and the most trusted source around. They put the civilian casualties between 110,000 to 120,000.
The videos and pictures you posted are disturbing and no doubt real. No excuses can be made for this. I don't know what the reason for this is but there seems to be no honour among a lot of young people today. You can see it in everyday news items like a school kid who stabs another kid because of some slight, not even thinking there would be any consequence. We had a couple on incidents close to home where girls got there boyfriends to murder other girls who were perceived to be rivals. Then they went on with their everyday lives like nothing happened, until the police came knocking. Then the tears started to flow like a river. You mean I have to spend the next twenty years in jail?!!
There seems to be some disconnect between actions and consequence. I believe some people who enlist in the military are borderline psychos, not all have noble intentions like Shockwave. Under extreme stress and a free reign thoses who are of this ilk will let their true nature come to the surface. It's a damn shame these soldiers were not screened mentally before given a gun. I know they were supposed to be but I think maybe the rules were relaxed because they were stretched so thin.
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E-Kul, let's get one thing straight. You are Australian and some of us are American. Do you see how we could get defensive by the way you word some of your posts? I respect your opinions as a non American, but it does sting us when the obvious anti U.S. slander comes out.
E-Kul should have every right to "sting" us as he does, because despite his ranting and raving he brings up points which must be addressed (alongside reams of false information).
Let's get the falsehoods out of the way first:
The ORB study indicating 1 million Iraqi deaths cannot be taken seriously given that the average total casualty number (coalition + Iraqi) of all of the other related studies is 215K. This includes the estimates coming out of documents published by Wikileaks in 2010. So according to what Assange himself (E-Kul's hero) can ascertain, nothing close to 1 million people have been killed.
Speaking of those Wikileaks documents, they also indicate the particular nature of the killings, which relates to another falsehood of E-Kul's: far and above, Iraqis have killed Iraqis. This wasn't a Nazi campaign to cleanse the population via genocide; it was a civil war where car bombings, mortar attacks, and block-by-block sectarian violence were responsible for the overwhelming majority of civilian deaths. It is very sad that Iraqis felt that way about each other, divided by religious sect and tribal loyalty (divisions reinforced by Saddam so that he could rule them more effectively), but that is the reality.
This doesn't thereby absolve all responsibility for the civilians that were inadvertently killed by the U.S. military, nor the abuses -- isolated though they are -- evinced by our forces. It does, however, very much change the character of the war (E-Kul, why aren't you reading what your hero is putting out?).
Now, to the "moral" component of the U.S.'s decision to intervene in the first place: containing Saddam via sanctions may have killed some 500K civilians during the 1990's (this is a high-end estimate). That is 50K innocent civilians per year. Meanwhile, in 9 years of occupying Iraq and establishing a stable regime that no longer threatens its neighbors nor tortures its own people and has at least a modicum of democratic norms, 215K people died, or, a little over 23K per year. So, fewer Iraqis have died relative to the world's previous policy toward Iraq. And this death rate is lower despite being part of a front-loaded flurry of violence that has successfully moved Iraq beyond Saddam for good (in other words, it is only going down from here).
The third alternative, with neither sanctions nor intervention, was not particularly desirable either: Saddam would remain in power and continue torturing his own people, including, potentially, more gas attacks like the ones he carried out on the Kurds in the 1980's, torture/execution for anyone deemed a threat, and conscription into another of his aggressive wars on his neighbors (the Iran-Iraq War -- initiated by Saddam -- killed perhaps 500K Iraqis). This also contained the possibility of his renewing Iraq's derelict WMD program, where documents captured in 2003 indicate Saddam would have used as a cover to act even more aggressively.
This sort of "death calculus" makes some uncomfortable but it is the reality of international politics. There were a bunch of pretty terrible options available to Iraqis, and it is within this conceptual space of terrible options that the Iraq War must be understood. There was no magical alternative that would have seen Iraq flourish and none of its citizens die.
This is why, despite all the violence and loss of life, 77% of Iraqis answered "Yes" to the question, "Thinking about any hardships you might have suffered since the US-Britain invasion, do you personally think that ousting Saddam Hussein was worth it or not?" in August 2006, at the veritable height of violence.
http://www.brookings.edu/fp/saban/iraq/index20060831.pdf (http://www.brookings.edu/fp/saban/iraq/index20060831.pdf) (p.51)
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the veitnam vets really got screwed :(
x10,000,000,000
If the economy was booming then yes, give more back. The reality is the gov't can't afford to support any more people. The only monetary changes should be in the form of cuts.
That's because we're currently giving too many handouts to the wrong people. I agree the government needs to make cuts, and it needs to stop growing itself. It's too damn big and has been for a long time!
Bullshit. I'm sure the goverment can cut back on some of the bullshit spending that they do. Like some of Obama's legendary vacations. They are reported to cost millions of dollars each, with all the prep and securtity etc..... They can easily cut the bullshit out of the spending. The army is the artery of America.
All of the presidents have done this, although it seems that the last two or three - especially this current one - have been completely egregious.
I'd prefer they took the money from welfare and other abused systems in America over the actual military.
YES!! And, it's not just welfare that needs an overhaul.
What I would like to see more of is help with veterans who are homeless, very poor or are have mental problems (namely PTSD and TBI).
Bingo!!
I believe in the welfare system, but not as it currently is. I've personally seen too many able-bodied people collect a US government check simply because they choose not to work, or they're single parents who make a career out of popping out babies.
There are people who need AND DESERVE it more and are NOT getting it.
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Should get same medical and pension % that congress does