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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: tbombz on August 02, 2012, 12:47:48 PM



Title: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: tbombz on August 02, 2012, 12:47:48 PM
SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.


 ive been training like this for a little while now. before i started lifting this way i was using an enormous of of very high quality and powerful steroids and had platued despite eating tons of food.  now im on only androgel and nothing else and not eating nearly as much but im making weekly progress and i attribute it entirely to this traiing method. i think focusing on the negative is a HUGE part of hypertrophy. 

i encourage you all to try it out. youll need to lose your ego and lift baby weights in order to do this correctly. im talking about 135lbs on bench press, 100lbs on pulldowns, 25 lbs single arm overhead extensions for triceps, 30lbs for hamstring curls, etc. very light weight. but when you do a 6-10 second negative, and a forceful positive contraction with a hard squeeze on EVERY SINGLE REP.. you will fatigue very very quickly despite the very light weight.

give it a try.


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: wild willie on August 02, 2012, 09:50:56 PM
I agree with your training philosophy....

Many blokes mindlessly hoist heavy weights without feeling the muscle work.

yes indeed.....lower the weights and focus on the negative portion of the rep.

There is a big difference between lifting weights and actual bodybuilding training.




Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: Donny on August 03, 2012, 02:27:51 AM
I agree with your training philosophy....

Many blokes mindlessly hoist heavy weights without feeling the muscle work.

yes indeed.....lower the weights and focus on the negative portion of the rep.

There is a big difference between lifting weights and actual bodybuilding training.



yes itīs about FEELING the muscles working. not..."how much can you bench??"


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: TrapsMcLats on August 03, 2012, 07:59:58 AM
yup, this is why when i do pull downs, i don't anchor my legs under the pads, but stick them out behind me.  I can't use  hardly any weight, but with the forced arch in your back, it created incredible tension and contraction.  I sucked at pullups till i started doing pullDOWNS this way.  Slow negatives, hard, focused contraction, and i can really feel every muscle working in my back.



Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: Donny on August 03, 2012, 08:13:10 AM
yup, this is why when i do pull downs, i don't anchor my legs under the pads, but stick them out behind me.  I can't use  hardly any weight, but with the forced arch in your back, it created incredible tension and contraction.  I sucked at pullups till i started doing pullDOWNS this way.  Slow negatives, hard, focused contraction, and i can really feel every muscle working in my back.


yes you CAN cheat on some sets but good form is the way to go..not to be confused with partial reps and other principles.


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: Dr Dutch on August 04, 2012, 02:31:18 AM
i think focusing on the negative is a HUGE part of hypertrophy. 

That's why the getbiggers that post on the G&O board are so big....they always focuse on the negative  ;D


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: tbombz on August 09, 2012, 05:04:24 PM
yup, this is why when i do pull downs, i don't anchor my legs under the pads, but stick them out behind me.  I can't use  hardly any weight, but with the forced arch in your back, it created incredible tension and contraction.  I sucked at pullups till i started doing pullDOWNS this way.  Slow negatives, hard, focused contraction, and i can really feel every muscle working in my back.


that is EXACTLY how i do my pulldowns these days.

yesterday my i started with puldowns and this is what i did

70lbs 10 reps
70lbs 5 reps + bumped up to 100lbs and did another 5 reps
100lbs 10 reps
100lbs 10 reps
150lbs 5 reps
100lbs 10 reps


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: tbombz on August 09, 2012, 05:05:46 PM
That's why the getbiggers that post on the G&O board are so big....they always focuse on the negative  ;D
;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D   ;D    ;D    ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D    ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D  ;D   ;D    ;D    ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D    ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D   ;D 


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: WOOO on August 11, 2012, 04:15:52 AM
i think there's a place for both explosive movements and slow, controlled movements in a training routine... of course this is for people looking to build functional strength on a natural diet/regimen

drug addicts like tbumz are a different story


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: tbombz on August 12, 2012, 10:35:58 AM
i think there's a place for both explosive movements and slow, controlled movements in a training routine... of course this is for people looking to build functional strength on a natural diet/regimen

drug addicts like tbumz are a different story
you say you "think there's a place for both explosive movements and slow, controlled movements"... 

 what i described is both explosive (forceful and focused during the positive), and slow and controlled (during the negative)..

so your comment is mute... broseph..


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: falco on August 12, 2012, 11:56:01 AM
"Squeeze the contraction" by Dr. Phd Milos Sarcev


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: chaos on August 12, 2012, 03:47:25 PM
you say you "think there's a place for both explosive movements and slow, controlled movements"... 

 what i described is both explosive (forceful and focused during the positive), and slow and controlled (during the negative)..

so your comment is mute... broseph..

Explosive movement would be something like a clean or a snatch, a movement that requires you to explode with power to complete it, not just exploding out of the hole on a bench press or something like that. That is why WOOO included the part about functional strength.


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: jpm101 on August 13, 2012, 08:16:32 AM
No malice to none..just personal views:

Explosive movements can be preformed with just about any exercise. It's the beginning thrust, with quickness and applied power combined, that defines explosive. Included are benches, squats, curls, lateral raises, etc...even pushups.   The Olympic lifts define the ultimate in explosive action.  They must or else the lifter can come into greater danger of injury. Olympic lifting is one of the quickest sports in the world.

With the true concept of negative exercises, the weight should be much heavier than the positive (contraction) phase of the movement. Art Jones did much study on the affects of negative training only. Gymnast are including in this style of training. You are not using baby weight, but weight you though might never have been possible with regular positive contractions of a muscle. Even only holding a weight in a certain position can cause advancement in strength and muscle size. Again, gymnast focus on holding a position, as well as the negative & positive phases of their event.  Even floor exercises.

With slow positive, hard contractions and extra slow negatives there is overriding demand on the CNS....perhaps too much for some. If your one of the lucky one, and receive progressive gains, than good for you. For most, progress may taper off after a few weeks of such type training. Only you can be the judge of it's value and advancing benefit. Do give it a try if you want, BB'ing is one be experiment  after all.  Good luck.


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: chaos on August 13, 2012, 11:51:12 AM
Jpm, don't you agree that an "explosive movement" would constitute the entire lift and not just one portion ie, exploding off the chest.


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: tbombz on August 13, 2012, 03:26:39 PM
No malice to none..just personal views:

Explosive movements can be preformed with just about any exercise. It's the beginning thrust, with quickness and applied power combined, that defines explosive. Included are benches, squats, curls, lateral raises, etc...even pushups.   The Olympic lifts define the ultimate in explosive action.  They must or else the lifter can come into greater danger of injury. Olympic lifting is one of the quickest sports in the world.

With the true concept of negative exercises, the weight should be much heavier than the positive (contraction) phase of the movement. Art Jones did much study on the affects of negative training only. Gymnast are including in this style of training. You are not using baby weight, but weight you though might never have been possible with regular positive contractions of a muscle. Even only holding a weight in a certain position can cause advancement in strength and muscle size. Again, gymnast focus on holding a position, as well as the negative & positive phases of their event.  Even floor exercises.

With slow positive, hard contractions and extra slow negatives there is overriding demand on the CNS....perhaps too much for some. If your one of the lucky one, and receive progressive gains, than good for you. For most, progress may taper off after a few weeks of such type training. Only you can be the judge of it's value and advancing benefit. Do give it a try if you want, BB'ing is one be experiment  after all.  Good luck.

i find "real" negatives, with excessive weight and a spotter helping during the positive, to be EXTREMELY taxing on the cna and almost impossible to rec over from.

but using light-moderate weight, training with very slow negatives and a hard contraction and sequeeze on the way up; always staying away from failure and keeping total volume moderate, to be relatively easy to recover from and provides fairly steady gains,  albeit small and incremental gains. i think they key is staying away from failure however.


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: chaos on August 13, 2012, 06:19:14 PM
i find "real" negatives, with excessive weight and a spotter helping during the positive, to be EXTREMELY taxing on the cna and almost impossible to rec over from.


Strange cause I'm actually the opposite, I never really feel anything from them. :-\


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: tbombz on August 13, 2012, 07:44:15 PM
but you dont use any drugs right chaos ?? in my experience i find users overtrain alot easier thna naturals.. counterintuitively so..


i havent tried them for over a year, last time i did them i was doing a "powerlifting" phase and was stuck at 435 on the bench and could not get past it.. every time id try to incorporate negatives i would regress and fall back to 415 or 405 and have to work my way back up to 435..


now days i rarely put over 225 on the bar.. but every few workouts ill put 365 or 385 on the bar and hit it one time (bench).. and its real easy..

back when i was doing that powerlifting phase i private messaged the bench pressing competitor.. wolf? is his name? who posts here..  he suggested i take a month or two off from powerlifting and focus on 6-8 rep range and then go back to hitting max weight and id probably break the platue after doing that..    and that advice and the results that followed have been one of the big learning experiences for me in regards to training...   that periodization is always key.. and tht you dont necessarily have to lift heavy weights in order to be able to life heavy weights..


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: chaos on August 13, 2012, 09:59:25 PM
but you dont use any drugs right chaos ?? in my experience i find users overtrain alot easier thna naturals.. counterintuitively so..


i havent tried them for over a year, last time i did them i was doing a "powerlifting" phase and was stuck at 435 on the bench and could not get past it.. every time id try to incorporate negatives i would regress and fall back to 415 or 405 and have to work my way back up to 435..


now days i rarely put over 225 on the bar.. but every few workouts ill put 365 or 385 on the bar and hit it one time (bench).. and its real easy..

back when i was doing that powerlifting phase i private messaged the bench pressing competitor.. wolf? is his name? who posts here..  he suggested i take a month or two off from powerlifting and focus on 6-8 rep range and then go back to hitting max weight and id probably break the platue after doing that..    and that advice and the results that followed have been one of the big learning experiences for me in regards to training...   that periodization is always key.. and tht you dont necessarily have to lift heavy weights in order to be able to life heavy weights..
No I don't use peds, and I find that I stagger my workouts in 3 week intervals, heavy, medium, light and rep accordingly and every 4th week I switch exercises and start over. I also throw in strongman training before weights on my medium and light weeks.

Wolfe is a pretty helpful guy and knows his shit when it comes to bench pressing.


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: jpm101 on August 16, 2012, 09:07:53 AM
Chaos

"Explosive" usually refers to the start of a exercise, where the initial thrust of moving a object/weight begins. Like a sprinter exploding off the starting blocks to get his first burst of power, and advantage, in a race. There are three phases of muscle contraction, the first being the starting motion of an object (in the sprinters case, his body/bwt) and the other two phases kick in as the object continues it's travel.

If have ever worked within a Power rack/Cage, than it's possible to set the pins in positions where you can develop explosive power in the normally weaker phases of a exercise. For most, the middle phase seems to give the most problems with the imbalance of weakness. Lockouts are usually the more powerful of the three phases. Chain training helps greatly, as does speed reps, when the idea is to develop the initial explosive, or power thrust, in any lift. Any of these can also be applied to the second and third phases of a exercise, with a little thought and workout planning. Good Luck.


Side Bar:   I have use the term "usually" quite a bit since coming on GB. Meaning that there is never a set normal for anyone or anything in lifting. No absolutes, that every one will get the same result when doing the exact same exercise, workout plan or eating habits. Some can do 5X5's, 20 sets per body part, push-pull, SS's, tri sets, quad sets, forced reps, etc and make unbelievable gains. Others might find that any of those protocols would be a disaster for their body's. Some can eat clean and still look like a skinned rabbit. Others eat all the junk food they want and get impressive muscle size and keep low body fat. BB's is really one big experimental lab, on the individual bases, for anyone. But always worth a try, to see what works for you and you only...usually.

Even trainee's respond differently to drugs. Some make almost overnight gains, some after months, may show little or no progress.


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeez
Post by: Yev33 on August 16, 2012, 09:57:22 AM
No I don't use peds, and I find that I stagger my workouts in 3 week intervals, heavy, medium, light and rep accordingly and every 4th week I switch exercises and start over. I also throw in strongman training before weights on my medium and light weeks.

Wolfe is a pretty helpful guy and knows his shit when it comes to bench pressing.

I actually do something very similar to what you are doing with the 3 week set up, except mine is light, medium, heavy.


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: chaos on August 16, 2012, 10:53:21 AM
Chaos

"Explosive" usually refers to the start of a exercise, where the initial thrust of moving a object/weight begins. Like a sprinter exploding off the starting blocks to get his first burst of power, and advantage, in a race. There are three phases of muscle contraction, the first being the starting motion of an object (in the sprinters case, his body/bwt) and the other two phases kick in as the object continues it's travel.

If have ever worked within a Power rack/Cage, than it's possible to set the pins in positions where you can develop explosive power in the normally weaker phases of a exercise. For most, the middle phase seems to give the most problems with the imbalance of weakness. Lockouts are usually the more powerful of the three phases. Chain training helps greatly, as does speed reps, when the idea is to develop the initial explosive, or power thrust, in any lift. Any of these can also be applied to the second and third phases of a exercise, with a little thought and workout planning. Good Luck.


Side Bar:   I have use the term "usually" quite a bit since coming on GB. Meaning that there is never a set normal for anyone or anything in lifting. No absolutes, that every one will get the same result when doing the exact same exercise, workout plan or eating habits. Some can do 5X5's, 20 sets per body part, push-pull, SS's, tri sets, quad sets, forced reps, etc and make unbelievable gains. Others might find that any of those protocols would be a disaster for their body's. Some can eat clean and still look like a skinned rabbit. Others eat all the junk food they want and get impressive muscle size and keep low body fat. BB's is really one big experimental lab, on the individual bases, for anyone. But always worth a try, to see what works for you and you only...usually.

Even trainee's respond differently to drugs. Some make almost overnight gains, some after months, may show little or no progress.
I am well aware of what the term explosive means, but I see an explosive movement as a move than cannot be performed slowly such as cleans/snatches, other moves can be made explosive like in your example but they can be done slowly as well. I guess it's just a difference of opinion on explosive movements vs exploding during a move. If that makes sense.  As for the cage/rack, I use it almost daily and I am very familiar with bands and chains and the hook system.

Yev, I've thought of doing it that way as well but I didn't want the medium weight week to affect heavy singles week.


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: tu_holmes on August 16, 2012, 10:56:29 AM
The title of this thread obviously references your anus.

No Homo.


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: Donny on August 16, 2012, 11:13:11 AM
The title of this thread obviously references your anus.

No Homo.
if you have nothing constructive to say then piss Off OK? I like a laugh but on training threads its nore serious..


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: tu_holmes on August 16, 2012, 11:14:19 AM
if you have nothing constructive to say then piss Off OK? I like a laugh but on training threads its nore serious..

Getbig is all of a sudden serious?

Oh brother... Everyone knows that The bombz has come a LONG way from when he started and he can take the joke.

Lower the dosage bro.


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: Donny on August 16, 2012, 11:20:18 AM
First of all ...i am not your fucking bro OK?  and i think a training thread is about learning and not piss taking .


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: tu_holmes on August 16, 2012, 11:22:00 AM
First of all ...i am not your fucking bro OK?  and i think a training thread is about learning and not piss taking .

HAH!!!!!

You can't possibly be this serious about a message board.

Nice gimmick.

I see what you did there.  8)


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: Donny on August 16, 2012, 11:43:22 AM
HAH!!!!!

You can't possibly be this serious about a message board.

Nice gimmick.

I see what you did there.  8)
<i am serious. I think this a board where guys come on here and give advice like GPM and other guys like WES and the list goes on.


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: tu_holmes on August 16, 2012, 11:48:25 AM
<i am serious. I think this a board where guys come on here and give advice like GPM and other guys like WES and the list goes on.

I think that there's room for levity all around getbig... I come on the board to read good training info too, but a good joke here and there never hurts.


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: Donny on August 16, 2012, 12:22:17 PM
I think that there's room for levity all around getbig... I come on the board to read good training info too, but a good joke here and there never hurts.
well then write constructive training advice. me i am the sexPert ;D


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: chaos on August 16, 2012, 07:16:09 PM
You boys need to be taken out back to the woodshed ???


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeez
Post by: Yev33 on August 17, 2012, 04:07:11 PM
I am well aware of what the term explosive means, but I see an explosive movement as a move than cannot be performed slowly such as cleans/snatches, other moves can be made explosive like in your example but they can be done slowly as well. I guess it's just a difference of opinion on explosive movements vs exploding during a move. If that makes sense.  As for the cage/rack, I use it almost daily and I am very familiar with bands and chains and the hook system.

Yev, I've thought of doing it that way as well but I didn't want the medium weight week to affect heavy singles week.

Either way it's a solid set up, I think it's a great way to periodize your training. Gives the body a break without getting into the 12-16 week block periodization systems where you are planning so far ahead not necessarily knowing how your body will respond from week 1 to week 12.


Title: Re: SLOW + controlled negatives, forceful + focused positives, and a hard squeeze.
Post by: VladimirVersic on September 09, 2012, 12:45:42 PM
Fast explosive movements on the positive part of rep with slower returns build fast twich muscle fiber that are the fibers that have the most number in the muscle so stimulating those fibers adds more size. Slower returns help avoid injuries as opposed to dropping the weight as fast as lifting it on the positive part and builds slow twich fibers.
So i'm not surprised about your gain on this type of lifting especially if you haven't been doing it before.
If training in this mode you should stop the set as soon the reps start to slow down or use a spotter to keep the speed steady trough the set.