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Title: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on September 24, 2012, 01:54:07 PM
Kind Treatment of Wives

God instructs men to be nice to their wives and to treat them well to the best of their ability:

“…And live with them in kindness…” (Quran 4:19)

The Messenger of God said, The most perfect of believers in belief is the best of them in character.  The best of you are those who are the best to their women.’[1]  The Prophet of Mercy tells us that a husband’s treatment of his wife reflects a Muslim’s good character, which in turn is a reflection of the man’s faith.  How can a Muslim husband be good to his wife?  He should smile, not hurt her emotionally, remove anything that will harm her, treat her gently, and be patient with her.

Being nice includes good communication.  A husband should be willing to open up, and be willing to listen to his wife.  Many times a husband wants to air his frustrations (like work).  He should not forget to ask her about what annoys her (like when children would not do their homework).  A husband should not talk about important things with her when he or his wife is angry, tired, or hungry.  Communication, compromise, and consideration are the cornerstone of marriage.

Being nice includes encouraging one’s wife.  The most meaningful admiration comes from a sincere heart that notices what really matters — what the wife really values.  So a husband should ask himself what she feels most insecure about and discover what she values.  That is the wife’s sweet spot of praise.  The more the husband compliments it, the more the wife will admire it, the more on target this healthy habit will be.  Kind words are like, “I like the way you think,” “You look beautiful in those clothes,” and “I love hearing your voice on the phone.”

Human beings are imperfect.  The Messenger of God said, “A believing man should not hate a believing woman.  If he dislikes something in her character, he should be pleased with some other trait of hers.”[2]  A man should not hate his wife because if he dislikes something in her, he will find something he likes about her if he gives it a chance.  One way to be aware of what he likes in his wife is for the husband to make a list of a half dozen things he appreciates about her.  Marriage experts recommend that one be as specific as possible and focus on character traits — just as the Prophet of Islam recommended, not just what she does for the husband.  For example, a husband may appreciate the way she arranges his clean laundry, but the underlying character trait may be that she is thoughtful.  The husband should consider admirable traits such as being compassionate, generous, kind, devout, creative, elegant, honest, affectionate, energetic, gentle, optimistic, committed, faithful, confident, cheerful, and so on.  A husband should give himself some time to construct this list, and review it in times of conflict when he is most likely to feel averse towards his wife.  It will help him be more aware of his wife’s good attributes and far more likely to compliment them.

A companion asked the Prophet of God what is the right of a wife over her husband?’  He said, “That you feed her when you eat and clothe her when you clothe yourself and do not strike her face.  Do not malign her and do not keep apart from her, except in the house.”[3]

Conflict in marriage is virtually inevitable and it leads to lot of anger.  Although anger is one of the most difficult emotions to manage, the first step toward controlling it can be learning how to forgive those who hurt us.  In case of conflict, a husband should not stop talking to his wife and emotionally hurt her, but he may stop sleeping in the same bed if it will improve the situation.  Under no circumstance, even when he is angry or somehow feels justified, is a husband allowed to malign her by using hurtful words or cause her any injury.


Footnotes:
[1] Al-Tirmidhi
[2] Saheeh Muslim.
[3] Abu Daud.


Title: Re: Kindness to our wives in Islam
Post by: a_ahmed on September 24, 2012, 01:58:39 PM
ADVICE TO HUSBANDS
 
Jabir Narrated that the Prophet, peace be upon him, gave these instructions in his sermon during Farewell Pilgrimage: “Fear God regarding women; for you have taken them [in marriage] with the trust of God.” [Mishkat]

 

Narrated Aisha, God’s messenger said: “Among the believers who show most perfect faith are those who have the best disposition, and are kindest to their families.” [Tirmidhi]

 

Narrated Abu Huraira, God’s messenger said:“The believers who show the most perfect faith are those who have the best disposition and the best of you are those who are best to their wives.”[Tirmidhi]

 

Aisha has related that the Holy Prophet, peace be upon him, would enter the house with a pleasing disposition and a smile on his lips. [Uswa-i-Hasana]

 

Narrated Al-Aswad: “I asked Aisha, `What did the Prophet, peace be upon him, do at home?’ She said, `He used to work for his family and when he heard the call for the prayer, he would go out.’”[Bukhari]

 

Narrated Abu Huraira: “Allah’s Apostle, peace be upon him, said, `The woman is like a rib; if you try to straighten her, she will break. So if you want to get benefit from her, do so while she still has some bent.’” [Bukhari]

 

Narrated Abu Huraira: “The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, `Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should not hurt (trouble) his neighbor. And I advise you to take care of women, for they are created from a rib and the most crooked portion of the rib is its upper part; if you try to straighten it, it will break, and if you leave it, it will reamin crooked, so I urge you to take care of women. [Bukhari]

 

Narrated Abdullah bin Amr bin Al-As: “Allah’s Apostle, peace be upon him, said, `O Abdullah! Have I not been informed that you fast all the day and stand in prayer all night?’ I said, `Yes, O Allah’s Apostle!’ He said, `Do not do that! Observe the fast sometimes and also leave them at other times; stand up for the prayer at night and also sleep at night. Your body has a right over you and your wife has a right over you.’” [Bukhari]

 

Narrated Ibn Umar: “The Prophet, peace be upon him, said, `All of you are guardians and are responsible for your wards. The ruler is a guardian and the man is a guardian of his family; the lady is a guardian who is responsible for her husband’s house and his offspring; and so all of you are guardians and are responsible for your wards.’”

 

Men should forbear any shortcomings of women in view of the following verse of Quran:

Live with them in kindness; even if you dislike them, perhaps you dislike something in which God has place much good. Quran [4 : 19]

http://www.nikahsea rch.com/marriage /advise_husbands .htm


Title: Re: Kindness to our wives in Islam
Post by: a_ahmed on September 24, 2012, 02:06:56 PM
Treatment of Women in Islam



Islam commands justice and kindness towards women:

"O you who believe, it is not lawful for you to take women as heritage against (their) will. Nor
should you straiten them by taking part of what you have given them, unless they are guilty
of manifest indecency. And treat them kindly. Then if you hate them, it may be that you dislike
a thing while Allah has placed abundant good in it."
The Holy Qur'an Ch.4:19 (The Women)


In the above verse, Allah tells the Muslims that they cannot treat women like slaves, but must
act justly with them. The verse enjoins Muslims to treat women kindly and warns them that they
may hate a woman when Allah has “placed abundant good”, in her. Muslims are to be just kind
to women and they must be careful not to underestimate the worth of women because of
imperfections that are made up for by their much greater good traits. Muslims are not to exploit
women, be cruel to them nor take them for granted. These are the commands of Allah to “you
who believe.”

Relationship between the believing men and women:

“ And the believers, men and women are friends of one another. They enjoin good and
forbid evil and keep up prayer and pay the poor rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. As
for these Allah will have mercy on them, Surely Allah is Mighty, Wise."
The Holy Qur'an Ch.9:71


We do not abuse, neglect or hurt friends, do we? Neither should we treat women in such a
manner! We are kind and helpful to our friends, are we not? Women deserve similar treatment
from their fathers, husbands, brothers, sons and other male relatives. That goes for the
government and society also, if it is a believing government or society.
In a recent book, “Silent No More”, by Paul Findley, a member of Congress, for twenty two
years, writes “ A report released in January 2000, by the John Hopkins Scholl of Public Health
in Baltimore, Maryland, offers the startling conclusion that one of every three women worldwide
has been beaten, raped or somehow mistreated.” “ Americans seem to cite severe
discrimination in some Muslim countries as evidence that Islam condones mistreatment of
women…….Most discrimination arises from brutish customs and male chauvinism, not from
the Qur’an or the Sunnah.”  He goes so far as to suggest, very much against the conventional
wisdom, that “Islam may be the single most liberating influence in recorded history, greater
than Christianity and Judaism.”
Mr. Findley explains, “ Thomas W. Lippman, a Jewish journalist who served for three
years as 'the Washington Post, bureau chief in Cairo', writes, “ In a society in which
women were possessions, taken and put aside like trinkets, often held in conditions
approaching bondage, the Qur’an imposed rules and prohibitions that curbed the
worst abuses, ensured women’s property rights, and encouraged men to , treat
women with kindness and generosity…..The Quran's dictates on women's legal
status, were quite advanced for their time and Islamic Law gives women's som erights
more liberating than those found in western legal codes---the Quran and Hadith---lay
down rules ensuring for women the respectable and dignified status that had been
denied them (in pre-Islamic society and emphasize the stability of the family."Page 128


William Baker, a Christian leader writes: “ When we consider the status of women in pre-
Islamic societies, we learn that two-thirds were in some form of slavery…..women were nearly
invisible in a male-dominated world in nearly every religion and very culture of the world.”
It is clear that the women in the seventh century, were nearly invisible in a male dominated
world, in nearly every religion and very culture….” Two thirds of the women throughout this world
are in some kind of slavery.” Then along comes Islam, as if out of the blue, completely
revolutionizing women’s rights; even giving them some rights that the west has yet to grant to
women in some parts of the world. These rights were given to the Muslim women of the
seventh century. They did not have to fight for their rights, did not have to participate in
demonstrations, or go on hunger strikes, as their western sisters had to. They did not have to
even lift a finger. These rights were given to them by this new religion of Islam. No one had to
force the Holy Prophet of Islam to grant these rights to women. These rights were their due as
human beings and Islam was the fulfillment of all religions, so they were liberated from the
centuries of oppression.
Not only does Islam require justice for women, it insists on kindness to them and co-
operation between them.
Mr.Findley quotes a Muslim, Nour Naciri, who comments on the
Hadith. “ The husband and the wife are as equal as two teeth in a comb.” It means that men
and women married or single, are equal in the rights their Creator gives them as human beings
and in the obligations He entrusts them to discharge as His vicegerents on earth. Male and
female must co-operate, each in his or her full capacity, just as the teeth of a comb, so to
speak must, must co-operate for any combing to be done. They must co-operate within the
family unit and within society as a whole.” (Page 131, Findley)

Both Holy Qur'an and Authentic Hadith support kind treatment of women:        
Other than the verse of the Holy Qur’an commanding kind treatment towards women, there are
also hadith on the subject matter.
“ The most perfect of the believers in faith is the best of them in moral excellence, and the best
of you are the kindest of you to their wives. (TR. 10:11)
“ Accept my advice in the matter of doing good to women.” (BU. 67:81).

Muslim (15:19) has this hadith about the Farewell Pilgrimage address:

“ O my people!  You have certain rights over your wives and so have your wives over you---
They are the trust of Allah in your hands, so you must treat them with all kindness.”

" Admonish your wives with kindness."
(Page 790, 8500 Precious Gems, Allahdin Publications)

“ A person who ill-treats his wife during the day and loves her at night, acts in complete
contradiction of the beauty of human nature.”
( Page 801,  8500 Precious Gems, - Allahdin Publications)

" Woman is fragile like glass, and men should therefore treat women with delicacy and
tenderness as they would handle an article made of glass."
( Page 801, 8500 Precious Gems, Allahdin Publications)

“The more civil and the kinder is a Muslim to his wife, the more perfect of faith he has; fear God
with reference to two meek beings, woman and orphan.”

The Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, stressed kindness and
good treatment of wives.
This is an echo of the Holy Qur’an, in the verse mentioned in the
beginning, as well as others:

“keep them in good fellowship, or let them go in kindness (2:229)------“Retain them in kindness,
or set them free in kindness, and retain them not for injury.” (2:231)

Overwhelmingly, the Holy Qur’an and authentic hadith command kind treatment of women, yet
there is one verse in the Holy Qur’an that has been taken to advocate the mistreatment of
women, especially by Non-Muslim critics.
The Holy Qur’an states:

“And as to  those on whose part you fear desertion (nushuz), admonish them, and leave
them alone in the beds and chastise  (wadribu-root dharaba)  them. So if they obey you, seek
not a way against them. Surely, Allah is ever Exalted, Great.” Ch.4:34
“ And If you fear a breach between the two, appoint an arbiter from his people and an arbiter
from her people. If they both desire agreement, Allah will effect harmony between them.
Surely Allah is ever Knowing, Aware.” Ch. 4:35


Obviously all the measures from admonishment to marriage counseling mentioned here are
attempts to save a marriage that is in danger of dissolution. If the chastisement in this verse
means beating one’s wife to an inch of her life, it is hard to see how that would contribute to
rejuvenating the marriage. On the contrary, it probably would destroy the marriage, by making
the wife hate her husband. It could end, the husband as well as the marriage; more than one
abused wife has killed her husband, or mutilated him. This is very bad  advice and the Holy Qur’
an does not give bad advice.

The word, ‘Dharaba’ (chastise), does not suggest repetitive or intense beating:
The word, “Dharaba”, translated as “chastise”, is in the singular, so only one strike is allowed.
Page 106 If (2 R’s or R’s rather than one) “Dharraba”, had been used, it would have meant to
strike repeatedly on intensely. That word was not used in this verse. “Dharaba”, can mean also
“to set an example.”
Asma Barlas quotes Amina Wadud that this verse,” should be read as prohibiting unchecked
violence against females. Thus this is not a permission, but a severe restriction of existing
practices.” ("Believing Women" in Islam', Asma Barlas, . U. of Tx. Press, Austin, 2002.)

The chastising mentioned in the verse apparently was symbolic, a way for the husband to
express his displeasure for serious misconduct on the part of the wife.  Barlas writes that,
“Tradition holds that the gesture should not cause pain. Hence some exegetes favor using a
folded handkerchief. She notes that ‘dharaba’ also means to prevent further gross misbehavior
by making clear the husband’s unhappiness with his wife’s behavior.”( Page 188, Barlas)

Ibn Abbas, a companion of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, said
that the chastisement could be with a toothbrush, or something similar. The Holy Prophet,
according to Tirmidhi (10:11) said, “ You have a right in the matter of your wives that you do
not allow anyone whom you not like to come in to your houses. If they do this, chastise them in
such a manner that it should not leave an impression.”
When some women complained of their husbands ill treating them, the Prophet, said,
according to Abu Daud (12:42), “ You will not find these men as the best among you.”

John Esposito writes, “ Muhammad’s wife Aisha narrated that, “Muhammad never physically
struck anyone with his own hand. Neither the Qur’an nor the Hadith record Muhammad as ever
mistreating or losing his temper with any of his wives, even when he was unhappy or
dissatisfied.” (Page 106, Esposito 'What everyone needs to know about Islam', 2002)

In the major hadith collections---hadith about striking, all emphasize that striking should be
done in such a way as not to cause pain or harm. The Founder of the Shafi Law School
maintained that it is preferable to avoid striking altogether. Despite the fact that domestic
violence continued to exist in male dominated cultures and to be legitimated in the name of
religion, neither the majority of Quranic verse, nor the hadith support or permit it. (Page 107,
Esposito)



                     SUMMARY


The word, nushuz, in the Holy Qur'an means, 'desertion':

"The word nushuz, which I have translated as 'd e s e r t i o n', primarily means r i s i n g,
and as spoken of a woman in connection with her husband it means her rising against her
h u s b a n d. This is explained in a number of ways; according to one of these explanations it
means her leaving the husband’s place and taking up an abode which he does not like
(AH). LL quotes various authorities showing that nushuz on the part of the woman means
that the wife resisted her husband and hated him (S, Q) and deserted him ( T ) .
The remedy pointed out in the case of the wife’s desertion is threefold. At first she is
only to be admonished. If she desists, the evil is mended, but if she persists in the wrong
course, her bed is to be separated. If she still persists, chastisement is permitted as a last
resort (Rz). Regarding this last remedy two things must, however, be borne in mind.
Firstly it is a mere permission, and sayings of the Prophet make it clear that, though
allowed, it was discouraged in practice. Thus the Prophet is reported to have said, on the
complaint of certain women as to the ill-treatment of their husbands: “You will not find
these men as the best among you” (AD. 12:42). According to Shafi, it is preferable not
to resort to chastisement of the wife (Rz). In fact, as the injunctions of the Qur’an are
wide in their scope, the example of the Holy Prophet and his constant exhortations for
kind treatment towards women, so much so that he made a man’s good treatment of his
wife the gauge of his goodness in general — the best of you is he who is best to his wife
— show clearly that this permission is meant only for that type of men and women who
belong to a low grade of society. Secondly, even this permission cannot be adopted
indiscriminately, for sayings of the Holy Prophet make it quite evident that chastisement,
when resorted to in extreme cases, must be very slight. I‘Ab says it may be with a
toothbrush or something like it (AH). The Prophet is reported to have said: “You have a
right in the matter of your wives that they do not allow anyone whom you do not like to
come into your houses; if they do this, chastise them in such a manner that it should not
leave an impression” (Tr. 10:11). Thus very slight chastisement was allowed only in extreme
cases."  English translation of the Holy Qur'an and Commentary, by Maulana Muhammad Ali.
Ch.4:34


The word, "dharaba" (pronounced as 'za-ra-ba'), has multiple meanings in the Holy Qur'an:

1.  Chastise (Ch.4:34)
2.  He set forth ( an example or a parable) Ch.14:24 ; Ch.16:75,76,112 ; Ch. 30:28,58 ;
    Ch. 66:10,11
3. "So We prevented them from hearing in the cave." Ch.18:11( meaning from Lane Lexicon)
      

The word 'Chastise', according to Random House Webster's College Dictionary, 1990,
means:
a) to discipline
b) to criticize severely
c) to chasten (to inflict suffering or punishment to humble or improve ; to restrain ; to refine)

In light of the above meanings, it would be quite appropriate to consider the word, dharaba
(chastise) to mean, restrain, or prevent such women from deserting their husbands. This would
lead to restoration of an endangered matrimonial relationship, through kindness and
arbitration. Marriage counselling would  also be an example of such preventive measures. It
should be noted that an abused wife, would decline any prospects of reconciliation, which is
the objective of this verse. The mention of "fear of breach between the two", and "appoint an
arbiter from his people and her people", is presented by the Qur'an (Ch.4:35) to prevent, and
denounce violence against women.

According to the teachings of the Holy Qur'an:

Women are:
To be free from bondage of slavery.   Ch.4:19
To be treated kindly.  Ch.4:19
To be treated with respect.  Ch.9:71
To be kept in good-fellowship, or "let them go in kindness".  Ch. 2:229
To be set free in kindness (in cases of divorce) and not to be retained for injury. Ch.2:231
To seek an arbiter, for her protection, if her husband fears desertion or rebellion by
her. Ch. 4:35
To seek an arbiter, for her protection, if she fears ii-usage or desertion from her
husband. Ch.4:128


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: a_ahmed on September 24, 2012, 02:21:56 PM
(http://www.pbs.org/muhammad/images/ma_script_women.gif)
   
At the time of Muhammad's birth, women in 7th century Arabia had few if any rights. Even the right of life could be in question, since it was not uncommon for small girls to be buried alive during times of scarcity. In the Qur'an, it is said that on Judgment Day "buried girls" will rise out of their graves and ask for what crime they were killed. Part of Muhammad's legacy was to end infanticide and establish explicit rights for women.

Islam teaches that men and women are equal before God. It grants women divinely sanctioned inheritance, property, social and marriage rights, including the right to reject the terms of a proposal and to initiate divorce. The American middle-class trend to include a prenuptial agreement in the marriage contract is completely acceptable in Islamic law. In Islam's early period, women were professionals and property owners, as many are today. Although in some countries today the right of women to initiate divorce is more difficult than intended, this is a function of patriarchal legislation and not an expression of Islamic values. Muhammad himself frequently counseled Muslim men to treat their wives and daughters well. "You have rights over your women," he is reported to have said, "and your women have rights over you."

Muhammad was orphaned at an early age. He once remarked that, "Heaven lies at the feet of mothers." As the father of four daughters in a society that prized sons, he told other fathers that, if their daughters spoke well of them on the Day of Judgment, they would enter paradise.

Beginning from the time of Muhammad's marriage to his first wife Khadijah, women played an important role in his religious career. According to Muslim sources, Khadijah was the first person Muhammad spoke to about his initial, terrifying experience of revelation. She consoled him and became the first convert to Islam. She remained a confidant and source of support throughout their entire marriage. Though men commonly took more than one wife in 7th Century Arabia, Muhammad remained in a monogamous marriage with Khadijah until her death, when Muhammad was in his fifties.

By then, Muhammad was working to establish a new community. In that context, over the next 10 years, he married several women. In some cases, these marriages occurred in order to cement political ties, according to the custom of the day. In some cases, the marriage provided physical and economic shelter to the widows of Muslims who had died or who had been killed in battle, and to the wife of a fallen foe. Of all his marriages, only one appears to have been controversial, and it was to the divorced wife of his adopted son.

Only one of his wives had not been previously married. Her name was Aisha, the daughter of one of his closest companions. Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad while still a girl, but she remained in her parents' home for several years until she reached puberty. Years later, when absent from Medina, Muhammad often recommended that, if religious questions arose, people should take them to his wife Aisha. After Muhammad's death, Aisha became a main source of information about Muhammad, and on medicine and poetry as well.

Aisha's assertion that Muhammad lived the Qur'an became the basis for Muslims ever since to emulate his example.

Muhammad's daughters also played an important and influential role, both in his life and in the establishment of Islam. Most notable was his daughter Fatima, who is still revered by all Muslims, particularly Shiite Muslims.

Following the Battle of Uhud (625), in which scores of male combatants died leaving unprotected widows and children, Muhammad and the Qur'an decreed that, in order to protect the orphans of such families, men might take up to four wives. The permission itself is surrounded with language that discourages the very thing it permits, saying that unless a man can treat several wives equally, he should never enter into multiple marriages. The usual supposition in the modern monogamous West-that Islam institutionally encourages lustful arrangements-is rejected by Muslims themselves as an ill-informed stereotype. At the same time, Muslim feminists point out that in various cultures at different economic strata the laws of polygamy have frequently operated to the clear detriment of women. Polygamy is an uncommon occurrence in the modern Muslim world.

Today, Islamic legal and social systems around the world approach and fall short of women's rights by varying degrees. Muslims themselves generally view Islam as progressive in these matters. Many Muslim feminists hold the view that the problems presently hindering Muslim women are those that hinder women of all backgrounds worldwide- oppressive cultural practices, poverty, illiteracy, political repression and patriarchy. There is a strong, healthy critique of gender oppression among Muslim feminist authors and activists worldwide.

It would be anachronistic to claim that Muhammad was a feminist in our modern sense. Yet the same present-day barriers to women's equality prevailed in 7th century Arabia, and he opposed them. Because in his own lifetime Muhammad improved women's position in society, many modern Muslims continue to value his example, which they cite when pressing for women's rights.

http://www.pbs.org/muhammad/ma_women.shtml


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: a_ahmed on September 24, 2012, 02:42:05 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbKqqai1V-c


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: a_ahmed on September 24, 2012, 07:27:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8pNQKZAW04


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: a_ahmed on September 24, 2012, 07:28:09 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slNC_jyjBcQ


Title: Re: Kindness to our wives in Islam
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on September 24, 2012, 07:30:05 PM
Treatment of Women in Islam



Islam commands justice and kindness towards women:

"O you who believe, it is not lawful for you to take women as heritage against (their) will. Nor
should you straiten them by taking part of what you have given them, unless they are guilty
of manifest indecency. And treat them kindly. Then if you hate them, it may be that you dislike
a thing while Allah has placed abundant good in it."
The Holy Qur'an Ch.4:19 (The Women)


In the above verse, Allah tells the Muslims that they cannot treat women like slaves, but must
act justly with them. The verse enjoins Muslims to treat women kindly and warns them that they
may hate a woman when Allah has “placed abundant good”, in her. Muslims are to be just kind
to women and they must be careful not to underestimate the worth of women because of
imperfections that are made up for by their much greater good traits. Muslims are not to exploit
women, be cruel to them nor take them for granted. These are the commands of Allah to “you
who believe.”

Relationship between the believing men and women:

“ And the believers, men and women are friends of one another. They enjoin good and
forbid evil and keep up prayer and pay the poor rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. As
for these Allah will have mercy on them, Surely Allah is Mighty, Wise."
The Holy Qur'an Ch.9:71


We do not abuse, neglect or hurt friends, do we? Neither should we treat women in such a
manner! We are kind and helpful to our friends, are we not? Women deserve similar treatment
from their fathers, husbands, brothers, sons and other male relatives. That goes for the
government and society also, if it is a believing government or society.
In a recent book, “Silent No More”, by Paul Findley, a member of Congress, for twenty two
years, writes “ A report released in January 2000, by the John Hopkins Scholl of Public Health
in Baltimore, Maryland, offers the startling conclusion that one of every three women worldwide
has been beaten, raped or somehow mistreated.” “ Americans seem to cite severe
discrimination in some Muslim countries as evidence that Islam condones mistreatment of
women…….Most discrimination arises from brutish customs and male chauvinism, not from
the Qur’an or the Sunnah.”  He goes so far as to suggest, very much against the conventional
wisdom, that “Islam may be the single most liberating influence in recorded history, greater
than Christianity and Judaism.”
Mr. Findley explains, “ Thomas W. Lippman, a Jewish journalist who served for three
years as 'the Washington Post, bureau chief in Cairo', writes, “ In a society in which
women were possessions, taken and put aside like trinkets, often held in conditions
approaching bondage, the Qur’an imposed rules and prohibitions that curbed the
worst abuses, ensured women’s property rights, and encouraged men to , treat
women with kindness and generosity…..The Quran's dictates on women's legal
status, were quite advanced for their time and Islamic Law gives women's som erights
more liberating than those found in western legal codes---the Quran and Hadith---lay
down rules ensuring for women the respectable and dignified status that had been
denied them (in pre-Islamic society and emphasize the stability of the family."Page 128


William Baker, a Christian leader writes: “ When we consider the status of women in pre-
Islamic societies, we learn that two-thirds were in some form of slavery…..women were nearly
invisible in a male-dominated world in nearly every religion and very culture of the world.”
It is clear that the women in the seventh century, were nearly invisible in a male dominated
world, in nearly every religion and very culture….” Two thirds of the women throughout this world
are in some kind of slavery.” Then along comes Islam, as if out of the blue, completely
revolutionizing women’s rights; even giving them some rights that the west has yet to grant to
women in some parts of the world. These rights were given to the Muslim women of the
seventh century. They did not have to fight for their rights, did not have to participate in
demonstrations, or go on hunger strikes, as their western sisters had to. They did not have to
even lift a finger. These rights were given to them by this new religion of Islam. No one had to
force the Holy Prophet of Islam to grant these rights to women. These rights were their due as
human beings and Islam was the fulfillment of all religions, so they were liberated from the
centuries of oppression.
Not only does Islam require justice for women, it insists on kindness to them and co-
operation between them.
Mr.Findley quotes a Muslim, Nour Naciri, who comments on the
Hadith. “ The husband and the wife are as equal as two teeth in a comb.” It means that men
and women married or single, are equal in the rights their Creator gives them as human beings
and in the obligations He entrusts them to discharge as His vicegerents on earth. Male and
female must co-operate, each in his or her full capacity, just as the teeth of a comb, so to
speak must, must co-operate for any combing to be done. They must co-operate within the
family unit and within society as a whole.” (Page 131, Findley)

Both Holy Qur'an and Authentic Hadith support kind treatment of women:        
Other than the verse of the Holy Qur’an commanding kind treatment towards women, there are
also hadith on the subject matter.
“ The most perfect of the believers in faith is the best of them in moral excellence, and the best
of you are the kindest of you to their wives. (TR. 10:11)
“ Accept my advice in the matter of doing good to women.” (BU. 67:81).

Muslim (15:19) has this hadith about the Farewell Pilgrimage address:

“ O my people!  You have certain rights over your wives and so have your wives over you---
They are the trust of Allah in your hands, so you must treat them with all kindness.”

" Admonish your wives with kindness."
(Page 790, 8500 Precious Gems, Allahdin Publications)

“ A person who ill-treats his wife during the day and loves her at night, acts in complete
contradiction of the beauty of human nature.”
( Page 801,  8500 Precious Gems, - Allahdin Publications)

" Woman is fragile like glass, and men should therefore treat women with delicacy and
tenderness as they would handle an article made of glass."
( Page 801, 8500 Precious Gems, Allahdin Publications)

“The more civil and the kinder is a Muslim to his wife, the more perfect of faith he has; fear God
with reference to two meek beings, woman and orphan.”

The Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, stressed kindness and
good treatment of wives.
This is an echo of the Holy Qur’an, in the verse mentioned in the
beginning, as well as others:

“keep them in good fellowship, or let them go in kindness (2:229)------“Retain them in kindness,
or set them free in kindness, and retain them not for injury.” (2:231)

Overwhelmingly, the Holy Qur’an and authentic hadith command kind treatment of women, yet
there is one verse in the Holy Qur’an that has been taken to advocate the mistreatment of
women, especially by Non-Muslim critics.
The Holy Qur’an states:

“And as to  those on whose part you fear desertion (nushuz), admonish them, and leave
them alone in the beds and chastise  (wadribu-root dharaba)  them. So if they obey you, seek
not a way against them. Surely, Allah is ever Exalted, Great.” Ch.4:34
“ And If you fear a breach between the two, appoint an arbiter from his people and an arbiter
from her people. If they both desire agreement, Allah will effect harmony between them.
Surely Allah is ever Knowing, Aware.” Ch. 4:35


Obviously all the measures from admonishment to marriage counseling mentioned here are
attempts to save a marriage that is in danger of dissolution. If the chastisement in this verse
means beating one’s wife to an inch of her life, it is hard to see how that would contribute to
rejuvenating the marriage. On the contrary, it probably would destroy the marriage, by making
the wife hate her husband. It could end, the husband as well as the marriage; more than one
abused wife has killed her husband, or mutilated him. This is very bad  advice and the Holy Qur’
an does not give bad advice.

The word, ‘Dharaba’ (chastise), does not suggest repetitive or intense beating:
The word, “Dharaba”, translated as “chastise”, is in the singular, so only one strike is allowed.
Page 106 If (2 R’s or R’s rather than one) “Dharraba”, had been used, it would have meant to
strike repeatedly on intensely. That word was not used in this verse. “Dharaba”, can mean also
“to set an example.”
Asma Barlas quotes Amina Wadud that this verse,” should be read as prohibiting unchecked
violence against females. Thus this is not a permission, but a severe restriction of existing
practices.” ("Believing Women" in Islam', Asma Barlas, . U. of Tx. Press, Austin, 2002.)

The chastising mentioned in the verse apparently was symbolic, a way for the husband to
express his displeasure for serious misconduct on the part of the wife.  Barlas writes that,
“Tradition holds that the gesture should not cause pain. Hence some exegetes favor using a
folded handkerchief. She notes that ‘dharaba’ also means to prevent further gross misbehavior
by making clear the husband’s unhappiness with his wife’s behavior.”( Page 188, Barlas)

Ibn Abbas, a companion of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, said
that the chastisement could be with a toothbrush, or something similar. The Holy Prophet,
according to Tirmidhi (10:11) said, “ You have a right in the matter of your wives that you do
not allow anyone whom you not like to come in to your houses. If they do this, chastise them in
such a manner that it should not leave an impression.”
When some women complained of their husbands ill treating them, the Prophet, said,
according to Abu Daud (12:42), “ You will not find these men as the best among you.”

John Esposito writes, “ Muhammad’s wife Aisha narrated that, “Muhammad never physically
struck anyone with his own hand. Neither the Qur’an nor the Hadith record Muhammad as ever
mistreating or losing his temper with any of his wives, even when he was unhappy or
dissatisfied.” (Page 106, Esposito 'What everyone needs to know about Islam', 2002)

In the major hadith collections---hadith about striking, all emphasize that striking should be
done in such a way as not to cause pain or harm. The Founder of the Shafi Law School
maintained that it is preferable to avoid striking altogether. Despite the fact that domestic
violence continued to exist in male dominated cultures and to be legitimated in the name of
religion, neither the majority of Quranic verse, nor the hadith support or permit it. (Page 107,
Esposito)



                     SUMMARY


The word, nushuz, in the Holy Qur'an means, 'desertion':

"The word nushuz, which I have translated as 'd e s e r t i o n', primarily means r i s i n g,
and as spoken of a woman in connection with her husband it means her rising against her
h u s b a n d. This is explained in a number of ways; according to one of these explanations it
means her leaving the husband’s place and taking up an abode which he does not like
(AH). LL quotes various authorities showing that nushuz on the part of the woman means
that the wife resisted her husband and hated him (S, Q) and deserted him ( T ) .
The remedy pointed out in the case of the wife’s desertion is threefold. At first she is
only to be admonished. If she desists, the evil is mended, but if she persists in the wrong
course, her bed is to be separated. If she still persists, chastisement is permitted as a last
resort (Rz). Regarding this last remedy two things must, however, be borne in mind.
Firstly it is a mere permission, and sayings of the Prophet make it clear that, though
allowed, it was discouraged in practice. Thus the Prophet is reported to have said, on the
complaint of certain women as to the ill-treatment of their husbands: “You will not find
these men as the best among you” (AD. 12:42). According to Shafi, it is preferable not
to resort to chastisement of the wife (Rz). In fact, as the injunctions of the Qur’an are
wide in their scope, the example of the Holy Prophet and his constant exhortations for
kind treatment towards women, so much so that he made a man’s good treatment of his
wife the gauge of his goodness in general — the best of you is he who is best to his wife
— show clearly that this permission is meant only for that type of men and women who
belong to a low grade of society. Secondly, even this permission cannot be adopted
indiscriminately, for sayings of the Holy Prophet make it quite evident that chastisement,
when resorted to in extreme cases, must be very slight. I‘Ab says it may be with a
toothbrush or something like it (AH). The Prophet is reported to have said: “You have a
right in the matter of your wives that they do not allow anyone whom you do not like to
come into your houses; if they do this, chastise them in such a manner that it should not
leave an impression” (Tr. 10:11). Thus very slight chastisement was allowed only in extreme
cases."  English translation of the Holy Qur'an and Commentary, by Maulana Muhammad Ali.
Ch.4:34


The word, "dharaba" (pronounced as 'za-ra-ba'), has multiple meanings in the Holy Qur'an:

1.  Chastise (Ch.4:34)
2.  He set forth ( an example or a parable) Ch.14:24 ; Ch.16:75,76,112 ; Ch. 30:28,58 ;
    Ch. 66:10,11
3. "So We prevented them from hearing in the cave." Ch.18:11( meaning from Lane Lexicon)
      

The word 'Chastise', according to Random House Webster's College Dictionary, 1990,
means:
a) to discipline
b) to criticize severely
c) to chasten (to inflict suffering or punishment to humble or improve ; to restrain ; to refine)

In light of the above meanings, it would be quite appropriate to consider the word, dharaba
(chastise) to mean, restrain, or prevent such women from deserting their husbands. This would
lead to restoration of an endangered matrimonial relationship, through kindness and
arbitration. Marriage counselling would  also be an example of such preventive measures. It
should be noted that an abused wife, would decline any prospects of reconciliation, which is
the objective of this verse. The mention of "fear of breach between the two", and "appoint an
arbiter from his people and her people", is presented by the Qur'an (Ch.4:35) to prevent, and
denounce violence against women.

According to the teachings of the Holy Qur'an:

Women are:
To be free from bondage of slavery.   Ch.4:19
To be treated kindly.  Ch.4:19
To be treated with respect.  Ch.9:71
To be kept in good-fellowship, or "let them go in kindness".  Ch. 2:229
To be set free in kindness (in cases of divorce) and not to be retained for injury. Ch.2:231
To seek an arbiter, for her protection, if her husband fears desertion or rebellion by
her. Ch. 4:35
To seek an arbiter, for her protection, if she fears ii-usage or desertion from her
husband. Ch.4:128


Hi Jag!


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Griffith on September 25, 2012, 02:43:37 AM
http://www.rawa.org/women.php



Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: a_ahmed on September 25, 2012, 03:03:41 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7wTyHGnuUU


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Man of Steel on September 26, 2012, 06:15:45 AM
I certainly think it's unfair that Muslims as a whole are painted in such a bad light (especially in reference to the treatment of women) due to the actions of the "bad apples" in the populace; unfortunately, there just seems to be a lot of "bad apples" in the Muslim population.  Although, to be fair, that population of "bad apples" draws far more attention from media than anything else. 


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: a_ahmed on September 26, 2012, 07:17:20 AM
Well it has nothing to do with Islam that's the thing.

The mainstream western media is not an information tool or education tool. It is merely a political propaganda tool to justify wars, demonize people, undermine or exagerate issues governments want. Etc...

These people who abuse women are following their cultures not Islam. If you look at Islam it clearly shows to respect, dignify, honor, protect women. Be kind to them, love them, etc... Muhammad (pbuh)'s message constantly emphasized on being kind and loving to women; girls and women young and old.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Radical Plato on September 26, 2012, 08:52:03 AM
Muslims are the first victims of Islam. Many times I have observed in my travels in the Orient, that fanaticism comes from a small number of dangerous men who maintain the others in the practice of religion by terror. To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him.
—E. Renan


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Radical Plato on September 26, 2012, 08:59:11 AM
Shaykh Nefzawi's The Perfumed Garden, a sixteenth-century treatise translated from the French, is very revealing of Islamic attitudes toward women and their sexuality.  Women's sexuality is never denied but seen as a source of danger: Do you know that women's religion is in their vaginas? asks the Shaykh. They are insatiable  as far as their vulvas are concerned, and so long as their lust is satisfied they do not care whether it be a buffoon, a negro, a valet, or even a despised man. It is Satan who makes the juices flow from their vaginas. The Shaykh quotes Abu Nuwas with approval:

Women are demons and were bom as such
No one can trust them as is known to all
If they love a man it is only out of caprice
And he to whom they are most cruel loves them most
Beings full of treachery and trickery, I aver
That man that loves you truly is a lost man
He who believes me not can prove my word
By letting woman's love get hold of him for years
If in your own generous mood you have given them
Your all and everything for years and years,
They will say afterwards, "I swear by God! my eyes
Have never seen a thing he gave me!"
After you have impoverished yourself for their sake
Their cry from day to day will be for ever "Give":
"Give man, get up and buy and borrow"
If they cannot profit by you they'll turn against you
They will tell lies about you and calumniate you
They do not recoil to use a slave in the master's absence
If once their passions are aroused and they play tricks
Assuredly if once their vulva is in rut
They only think of getting in some member in erection
Preserve us, God! from women's trickery
And of old women in particular. So be it.


Here we have a complete inventory of a woman's faults as seen by Muslim men — deceit, guile, ingratitude, greed, insatiable lust, in short, a gateway to hell. To see Islam as sex-positive is to insult all Muslim women, for sex is seen entirely from the male point of view; a woman's sexuality, as we shall see, is either denied or, as in The Perfumed Garden, seen as something unholy, something to be feared, repressed, a work of the devil. Islam, with it's obsession with cleanliness reveals a disgust with the sexual act and the sexual parts that is pathological and always the same contempt for women.  Islam is the fundamental cause of the repression of Muslim women and remains the major obstacle to the evolution of their position. Islam has always considered women as creatures inferior in every way: physically, intellectually, and morally. This negative vision is divinely sanctioned in the Koran, corroborated by the hadiths and perpetuated by the commentaries of the theologians, the custodians of Muslim dogma and ignorance.
Any religion that requires total obedience without thought is not likely to produce people capable of critical thought, people capable of free and independent thought.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Radical Plato on September 26, 2012, 09:22:22 AM
Some misogynistic verses from the KORAN.

53.21-22. Are yours the males and His the females That indeed were an unfair division!

53.27. Lo! it is those who disbelieve in the Hereafter who name the angels with the names of females.

2.178 O ye who believe! Retaliation is prescribed for you in the matter of the murdered; the freeman for the freeman, and the slave for the slave, and the female for the female.

2.228. Women who are divorced shall wait, keeping themselves apart, three (monthly) courses. And it is not lawful for them that they should conceal that which Allah hath created in their wombs if they are believers in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands would do better to take them back in that case if they desire a reconciliation. And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above them. Allah is Mighty, Wise.

2.282 But if he who oweth the debt is of low understanding, or weak or unable himself to dictate, then let the guardian of his interests dictate in (terms of) equity. And call to witness, from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not (at hand) then a man and two women, of such as ye approve as witnesses, so that if the one erreth (through forgetfulness) the other will remember.

4.3. And if ye fear that ye will not deal fairly by the orphans, marry of the women, who seem good to you, two or three or four; and if ye fear that ye cannot do justice (to so many) then one (only) or the (captives) that your right hand possesses. Thus it is more likely that ye will not do injustice.

4.11. Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females.

4.34. Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart; and scourge (beat) them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great.

4.43. O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter, nor when ye are polluted, save when journeying on the road, till ye have bathed. And if ye be ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have touched women, and ye find not water, then go to high clean soil and rub your faces and your hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.

5.6. And if ye are sick on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have contact with women and ye find not water, then go to clean high ground and rub your faces and your hands with some of it.

33.32 33. O ye wives of the Prophet! Ye are not like any other women. If ye keep your duty (to Allah), then be not soft of speech lest he in whose heart is a disease aspire to you, but utter customary speech. And stay in your houses. Bedizen not yourselves with the bedizenment of the time of ignorance. Be regular in prayer, and pay the poor due, and obey Allah and His Messenger.

33.53. And when ye ask of them (the wives of the Prophet) anything ask it of them from behind a curtain. That is purer for your hearts and for their
hearts.

33.59. O Prophet! Tell thy wives and thy daughters and the women of the believers to draw their cloaks close round when they go abroad. That will be better, that so they may be recognized and not annoyed.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Radical Plato on September 26, 2012, 09:32:41 AM
In numerous hadiths on which are based the Islamic laws we learn of the woman's role—to stay at home, to be at the beck and call of man, to obey him (which is a religious duty), and to assure man a tranquil existence. Here are some examples of these traditions:

—If it had been given me to order someone to prostrate themselves in front of someone other than God, I would surely have ordered women to
prostrate themselves in front of their husbands. . . . A woman cannot fulfill her duties toward God without first having accomplished those that she owes her husband.

—The woman who dies and with whom the husband is satisfied will go to paradise.

—A wife should never refuse herself to her husband even if it is on the saddle of a camel.

—Hellfire appeared to me in a dream and I noticed that it was above all peopled with women who had been ungrateful. "Was it toward God that they were ungrateful?" They had not shown any gratitude toward their husbands for all they had received from them. Even when all your life you have showered a woman with your largesse she will still find something petty to reproach you with one day, saying, "You have never done anything for me."

—If anything presages a bad omen it is: a house, a woman, a horse.

—Never will a people know success if they confide their affairs to a woman

Islamic culture and civilization is profoundly antifeminist, as the following sayings from various caliphs, ministers, philosophers, and theologians through the ages reveal:

Omar the second caliph (581-644) said:

"Prevent the women from learning to write! say no to their capricious ways."
On another occasion he said,
"Adopt positions opposite those of women. There is great merit in such opposition."
And again,
"Impose nudity on women because clothes are one reason for leaving the house, to attend marriages and to appear in public for ceremonies and parties. When a woman goes out frequently she risks meeting another man and finding him attractive even if he is less attractive than her husband; for she is attracted and distracted by anything she does not possess".

The antifeminist sayings of A l i (600-661), the Prophet's cousin and the fourth caliph, are famous:

"The entire woman is an evil and what is worse is that it is a necessary evil!"

"You should never ask a woman her advice because her advice is worthless. Hide them so that they cannot see other men! . . . Do not spend too much time in their company for they will lead you to your downfall!"

"Men, never ever obey your women. Never let them advise you on any matter concerning your daily life. If you let them advise you they will squander all your possessions and disobey all your orders and desires. When alone they forget religion and think only of themselves; and as soon as it concerns their carnal desires they are without pity or virtue. It is easy to get pleasure from them but they give you big headaches too. Even the most virtuous among them is of easy virtue. And the most corrupt are whores! Old age does not spare them of their vices. They have three qualities worthy of an unbeliever: they complain of being oppressed when in fact it is they who oppress; they take solemn oaths and at the same time lie; they make a show of refusing the advances of men when in fact they long for them ardently. Let us implore God's help to escape their sorcery."

And finally to a man teaching a woman to write:
"Do not add evil to unhappiness."


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Radical Plato on September 26, 2012, 09:38:11 AM
The famous Muslim and revered philosopher al-Ghazali (1058-1111), "The Revival Of The Religious Sciences," Ghazali defines the woman's role"

She should stay at home and get on with her spinning, she should not go out often, she must not be well-informed, nor must she be communicative with her neighbours and only visit them when absolutely necessary; she should take care of her husband and respect him in his presence and his absence and seek to satisfy him in everything; she must not cheat on him nor extort money from him; she must not leave her house without his permission and if given his permission she must leave surreptitiously. She should put on old clothes and take deserted streets and alleys, avoid markets, and make sure that a stranger does not hear her voice or recognize her; she must not speak to a friend of her husband even in need. . . . Her sole worry should be her virtue, her home as well as her prayers and her fast. If a friend of her husband calls when the latter is absent she must not open the door nor reply to him in order to safeguard her and her husband's honour. She should accept what her husband gives her as sufficient sexual needs at any moment. . . . She should be clean and ready to satisfy her husband's sexual needs at any moment.

The great theologian then warns all men to be careful of women for their "guile is immense and their mischief is noxious; they are immoral and mean spirited." "It is a fact that all the trials, misfortunes and woes which befall men come from women," moaned al-Ghazali.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Radical Plato on September 26, 2012, 09:43:13 AM
Muhammad is reported to have told his men to treat kindly those two weaklings "women and slaves." In general Islam treats women as intellectually, morally, and physically inferior. First comes man, then comes the hermaphrodite (who in Islam has a distinct legal status), and last the woman. Conservative Muslim thinkers have even revived discredited anthropological theories purporting to show that the cranial capacity of women is far smaller than that of a man.

 "Women have less reason and faith" goes one famous hadith. A woman is seen as being in a state of impurity during her menstruation, but this impurity is not limited to her period of menstruation. It is reported that Muhammad had never touched a woman who did not belong to him. When the women who gave him their allegiance asked to shake him by the hand, he replied, "I never touch the hand of women." Further hadiths on this subject:

—Better for a man to be splashed by a pig than for him to brush against the elbow of a woman not permitted him.

—Better to bury an iron needle in the head of one of you than to touch a woman not permitted him.

—He who touches the palm of a woman not legally his will have red-hot embers put in the palm of his hand on Judgment Day.

—Three things can interrupt prayers if they pass in front of someone praying: a black dog, a woman, and an ass.


Liberal Muslims may wish to dismiss these hadiths as inauthentic but what will they say to the Koran which also says:
"Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter, nor when ye are polluted, save when journeying on the road, till ye have bathed. And if ye be ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have touched a woman, and ye find not water, then go to high clean soil and rub your faces and your hands"

more to come on Islam's hatred of Women - stay Tuned...........


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Man of Steel on September 26, 2012, 10:23:22 AM
ahmed told me copying and pasting isn't appropriate support.  support must be derived from your own research.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: a_ahmed on September 26, 2012, 11:48:29 AM
Well he's become a mental drone. He's copy pasting blogs like that of pamela geller and robert spencer who are hate mongerers and who ironically have not read a quran themselves.

Likewise for him, he has not read a quran or even knows if what he is quoting is a hadith or where its from he's just copy pasting with his own misguided context.

And since he's gone psycho mental drone mode, it's not possible to talk to him.

He's become as stupid as 3333 and his lackeys.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Radical Plato on September 26, 2012, 08:27:33 PM
I haven't even got to female circumcision yet, that's a beauty.  Muslim men HATE women, are afraid of women and Muslim men are so insecure they need to control every aspect of a woman's life.  What pathetic men Muslims are!


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Griffith on September 28, 2012, 08:18:58 AM
Women aren't allowed to drive cars in certain Moslem countries and need a male 'escort' to keep an eye on them if they want to go anywhere out the house.

I know of a woman tourist who visited Dubai and was caught driving in a car alone with another man, she was convicted of being a 'whore' for this offence and received several lashed from a whip.

If couples are even caught holding hands in a public place they could be arrested by 'religious police'.

What if the people are a different religion...? People are FREE to do as they wish, no-one has the right to regulate the private life of another person.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: a_ahmed on September 28, 2012, 09:00:33 AM
lol women don't drive in saudi, as it's cultural even though certain people try to make it seem islamic. As far as UAE you're lying or well misinformed because I lived there for a while.

Here's the thing. You also don't understand any of these people's cultures. Just as people from there may not understand or want anything to do with say goth culture or whatever. Saudi women are spoiled as hell, they don't want to even drive. Of course some of them do, but generally speaking culturally they want to be pampered and served like princesses literally. They even hire maids to carry their children. In UAE it's similar. They are rich and live as such.

Even as a youth and a non-muslim myself, I used to have a private driver. It's very common in Arab countries and they rather pay others to cook for them, drive them, etc... while spend their free time shopping and beautifying themselves (even though you don't see that under the abaya and hijab)


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: avxo on September 28, 2012, 09:28:13 AM
Saudi women are spoiled as hell, they don't want to even drive. Of course some of them do [...]"

Arguments about culture aside, let's assume that what you say is true and that Saudi women don't want to drive; I have no first-hand knowledge on the subject so I'm willing to accept your word. Except that, according to you, some of them actually do want to drive. Let's focus on them, shall we?

I have one simple question: Can those women who want to drive do that? Or are they simply not allowed to, at all?


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: a_ahmed on September 28, 2012, 09:32:15 AM
Again I can post only a few videos here and there as most Saudis are against being on film. However the point is you are completely ignorant of these people's cultures and are loud as hell about them tens of thousands of miles away.

The world doesn't suck as much as western media and governments wants you to believe. I really had a good life in arab countries as a non muslim and yes I plan to go back inshAllah (God willing). The strife with Muslims is that they are sick of having dictatorships imposed on them and the US meddling, war mongering, etc...

Saudi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv4Mb_TAfbU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6OJECs98S4

UAE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuEljkNR3ss


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: avxo on September 28, 2012, 09:46:54 AM
Again I can post only a few videos here and there as most Saudis are against being on film. However the point is you are completely ignorant of these people's cultures and are loud as hell about them tens of thousands of miles away.

You even see, in my post, that I readily accept that what you say is true. I just asked a simple yes or no question. One which you couldn't or wouldn't answer. I will ask you again: according to you, some Saudi women actually do want to drive. Can they? Or are they simply not allowed to, at all?

It's a simple "yes" or "no" question. No need for videos. No need for explanations of how you enjoyed your time in Arab countries. Just a one word answer to one simple question:

Can Saudi women who want to drive do so? Or are they simply not allowed to, at all?


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: a_ahmed on September 28, 2012, 09:49:34 AM
No in saudi they do not, but again it is cultural and you are completely misunderstanding the culture. It's ironic that you have a problem with another culture but keep saying no one should be telling you how your culture should be? No one is, but you are the one telling others.

The video illustrates quite well all I said. They have a different culture that you do not understand nor have you spent any time with these people to want to understand.

They generally don't want to cook, drive, etc... and instead rather have maids and have free times for themselves and that's the norm.

In the west who has maids that cook for you, carry your children, or how about limousine drivers? Maybe some rich people? In Arab countries on the other hand even the midddle class and poorer people conduct their lives with these luxuries.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: avxo on September 28, 2012, 10:11:16 AM
No in saudi they do not, but again it is cultural and you are completely misunderstanding the culture.

And that's my point. That in Saudi Arabia some women want to drive, but they are not allowed to. Whether it's because of the culture or something else is irrelevant.


It's ironic that you have a problem with another culture but keep saying no one should be telling you how your culture should be? No one is, but you are the one telling others.

The only thing I'm saying is that I consider the government imposing irrational limits on what people can do, especially on the basis of gender, to be oppresive and stupid.



Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: bigbobs on September 28, 2012, 11:00:37 AM
And that's my point. That in Saudi Arabia some women want to drive, but they are not allowed to. Whether it's because of the culture or something else is irrelevant.

The only thing I'm saying is that I consider the government imposing irrational limits on what people can do, especially on the basis of gender, to be oppresive and stupid.



Of course it's relevent!  (In this thread at least) - since the thread title is about Islamic treatment of women, not Saudi government or Arab culture's treatment of women. 


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: a_ahmed on September 28, 2012, 02:50:30 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NOuEy-rGzU


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: OzmO on September 28, 2012, 03:00:38 PM
Of course it's relevent!  (In this thread at least) - since the thread title is about Islamic treatment of women, not Saudi government or Arab culture's treatment of women. 

Women not allowed to drive in Suadi Arabia?

More evidence of a primitive backward repressive culture who's roots and foundation are Islamic


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: a_ahmed on September 28, 2012, 04:24:58 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEGeX2SkvtE

1 in 3 US army females gets raped by her fellow male equivalents


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Shockwave on September 28, 2012, 06:40:39 PM
The last video is not normal, that woman is ALLOWED to drive because she has a talent for it, she drives a racecar in some major circuit. Thats the only reason. Nice try though.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: a_ahmed on November 01, 2012, 08:53:23 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eI85xl4CCR8


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Radical Plato on November 02, 2012, 02:10:36 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r58rUuU0hXU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hRdsZQ8vFI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sASxeWX9Mmo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql7YXVWD684


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Radical Plato on November 02, 2012, 02:18:08 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fLzhI7rEYqE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsmyzybeMis

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8IX6Sv_uo4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQKVxF2fCX4

Wake up people, Islam is EVIL.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Radical Plato on November 02, 2012, 02:27:32 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6HEGKUylPs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hgKcFXfRA0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhPdkXMIQU4


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: stingray on November 02, 2012, 04:09:10 AM
Muhammad is reported to have told his men to treat kindly those two weaklings "women and slaves." In general Islam treats women as intellectually, morally, and physically inferior. First comes man, then comes the hermaphrodite (who in Islam has a distinct legal status), and last the woman. Conservative Muslim thinkers have even revived discredited anthropological theories purporting to show that the cranial capacity of women is far smaller than that of a man.

 "Women have less reason and faith" goes one famous hadith. A woman is seen as being in a state of impurity during her menstruation, but this impurity is not limited to her period of menstruation. It is reported that Muhammad had never touched a woman who did not belong to him. When the women who gave him their allegiance asked to shake him by the hand, he replied, "I never touch the hand of women." Further hadiths on this subject:

—Better for a man to be splashed by a pig than for him to brush against the elbow of a woman not permitted him.

—Better to bury an iron needle in the head of one of you than to touch a woman not permitted him.

—He who touches the palm of a woman not legally his will have red-hot embers put in the palm of his hand on Judgment Day.

—Three things can interrupt prayers if they pass in front of someone praying: a black dog, a woman, and an ass.


Liberal Muslims may wish to dismiss these hadiths as inauthentic but what will they say to the Koran which also says:
"Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter, nor when ye are polluted, save when journeying on the road, till ye have bathed. And if ye be ill, or on a journey, or one of you cometh from the closet, or ye have touched a woman, and ye find not water, then go to high clean soil and rub your faces and your hands"

more to come on Islam's hatred of Women - stay Tuned...........

Can you give me evidence and references of the hadith that you mentioned?I have never heard them.

You are not credible or a person of good character, no person should ever beleive what you say.

And with the last verse you mentioned, the verse mentions if you use your brain abit more and stop your brainwashing for a minute, is that in islam, when you have sex with your wife, both the women and men need to take a shower.

Doesnt mean in the verse after you touch a girl you need to shower. Its talking about the sexual intercourse. Thasts why the verse mentions that after you have sex, you need to shower to clean and purify yourselves.But if there is no water around, you purify yourself with clean soil which is called "tayammum" in islam.

So the verse is not talking about touching women, but its the intimacy between couples


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Radical Plato on November 02, 2012, 04:36:12 AM
There is in Islam a complete absence of the idea of association, partnership, or companionship between the married couple. The Arabic word for "marriage" is "nikah" which is also the word for "coition," and in contemporary French slang "niquer" Women and Islam means "to fuck." Bousquet's conclusion on the subject of Muslim marriages could be summarized thus: The Muslim marriage is essentially an act by which a woman, often without being consulted, must put herself sexually at the disposition of her husband, if need be next to three other wives and an unlimited number of concubines. She must be ready to be turned out as soon as she ceases to please and never expect a conjugal partnership to arise. 

A wife cannot legitimately ask her husband to satisfy her sexually—she can only demand that she be fed, clothed, and housed, Sexually, the husband is the master of the enjoyment of his wife. The converse is not true. The husband's refusal to make love to his wife is simply considered as a free renunciation of his legitimately acquired sexual rights.

The famous story of the debate over sodomy illustrates further the Muslim attitude toward sex. It appears there were certain men in Muhammad's entourage who "enjoyed their women from front and from behind." Some women asked Muhammad's opinion. Muhammad received the appropriate revelation which is recorded in the Koran sura 2.223: "Your women are as your field—go unto them as you will." Nobody ever thought of consulting the women themselves; they were excluded from the debate.

The wife who refuses her husband is considered insubordinate and the husband has the right to punish her physically, something which is again divinely sanctioned in the Koran

4.34. Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart; and scourge (beat) them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great.

Religion of peace.......


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: a_ahmed on November 02, 2012, 11:57:13 AM
I guess you're in the islamophobia olympics, who can be more ignorant, lying, fraduelent, hateful and vile as possible.

Now I am seriously trying to understand what the hell your father did to you, to make you such a demented person to this day even when you are 40 years old.

I guess you're angry that more women are becoming Muslimahs. Well go ahead and detest it all you want

They want to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, but Allah will certainly make His light shine forever - even though the disbelievers may dislike this. Surah As-Saff [61:8]


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: stingray on November 02, 2012, 01:26:19 PM
There is in Islam a complete absence of the idea of association, partnership, or companionship between the married couple. The Arabic word for "marriage" is "nikah" which is also the word for "coition," and in contemporary French slang "niquer" Women and Islam means "to fuck." Bousquet's conclusion on the subject of Muslim marriages could be summarized thus: The Muslim marriage is essentially an act by which a woman, often without being consulted, must put herself sexually at the disposition of her husband, if need be next to three other wives and an unlimited number of concubines. She must be ready to be turned out as soon as she ceases to please and never expect a conjugal partnership to arise.  

A wife cannot legitimately ask her husband to satisfy her sexually—she can only demand that she be fed, clothed, and housed, Sexually, the husband is the master of the enjoyment of his wife. The converse is not true. The husband's refusal to make love to his wife is simply considered as a free renunciation of his legitimately acquired sexual rights.

The famous story of the debate over sodomy illustrates further the Muslim attitude toward sex. It appears there were certain men in Muhammad's entourage who "enjoyed their women from front and from behind." Some women asked Muhammad's opinion. Muhammad received the appropriate revelation which is recorded in the Koran sura 2.223: "Your women are as your field—go unto them as you will." Nobody ever thought of consulting the women themselves; they were excluded from the debate.

The wife who refuses her husband is considered insubordinate and the husband has the right to punish her physically, something which is again divinely sanctioned in the Koran

4.34. Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart; and scourge (beat) them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them Lo! Allah is ever High Exalted, Great.

Religion of peace.......


do you even know what your posting when you post?

Again, you are proven your a big fool,

 "enjoyed their women from front and from behind."

What it means that a companion, one companion of prophet mohamed, not a entourage as you claim, came up to prophet Mohamed and said to him, "i am doomed, i am doomed" .The prophet Mohamed said to him "how are you doomed"? The companion said to prophet Mohamed "I had sex with my wife from behind".

What the comapnion meant is that he had sex with his wife doggy style, from behind, and not in her anus, you idiot.

It never implied that he has sex from behind in her anus, but he took her from behind sexually.

Then prophet Mohamed mentions the verse

"Your women are as your field—go unto them as you will."

Meaning you can have sex in any position with your wife, you can go on top, she can go on top, etc, but forbid to have sex anally.

So if you want to post more rubbish e-kul, then be my guest. Its the second time ive corrected you over you blatant rubbish in 24 hrs.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: avxo on November 02, 2012, 05:23:33 PM
Meaning you can have sex in any position with your wife, you can go on top, she can go on top, etc, but forbid to have sex anally.

Why is anal forbidden? After all if the verse is "Your women are as your field—go unto them as you will." It's not "Your women are as your field—go unto them as you will, but not up as the ass!"


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: stingray on November 02, 2012, 05:55:15 PM
Why is anal forbidden? After all if the verse is "Your women are as your field—go unto them as you will." It's not "Your women are as your field—go unto them as you will, but not up as the ass!"


Not everything in islam is in the koran, in islam, we also have the prophetic sayings, which are not necessarily in the koran.
For example it doesnt say in the koran about anal sex, but with the prophetic sayings it is different,

for example,

1 – It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The one who has intercourse with his wife in her back passage has disavowed himself of that which was revealed to Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).” Narrated by Abu Dawood (3904); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

2 – It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah will not look at a man who has intercourse with a woman in her back passage.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (1165); classed as saheeh by Ibn Daqeeq al-‘Eid in al-Ilmaam (2/660) and by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

3 – It was narrated that Khuzaymah ibn Thaabit (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah is not too shy to tell the truth” three times. “Do not have intercourse with women in their back passages.” Narrated by Ibn Maajah (1924); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn Maajah.



Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Radical Plato on November 02, 2012, 08:18:53 PM
This leads us to female circumcision. In the nineteenth century, it was widespread in Arabia, where "clitoris cutter" was a legitimate profession practiced by old women, and perhaps most other Islamic countries.  According to the Minority Rights Group's Report "Female Genital Mutilation: Proposals for Change," published in 1992, the practice is still followed widely across Western, Saharan, and Eastern Africa,
as well as in Yemen and Oman, by Muslims.  "Tens of millions of girls are affected every year."  Again, female excision is not mentioned in the Koran and learned doctors of theology, when they deign to address the matter, spend very little time on it, simply recommending it as a pious act.

"The procedure varies from mildly painful to gruesome, and can involve the removal of the clitoris and other organs with knives,
broken glass, and razors—but rarely anesthetic. It can lead to severe problems with menstruation, intercourse and childbirth, psychological disturbances and even death." In this gruesome act of "disbudding" of the female are embodied all the Muslim males' fears of female sexuality.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Radical Plato on November 02, 2012, 08:25:19 PM
On adultery the Koran 24.4 says: "Those that defame honourable women and cannot produce four witnesses shall be given eighty lashes." Of course, Muslim jurists will only accept four male witnesses. These witnesses must declare that they have "seen the parties in the very act of carnal conjunction." Once an accusation of fornication and adultery has been made, the accuser himself or herself risks punishment if he or she does not furnish the necessary legal proofs. Witnesses are in the same situation. If a man were to break into a woman's dormitory and rape half a dozen women, he would risk nothing since there would be no male witnesses. Indeed the victim of a rape would hesitate before going in front of the law, since she would risk being condemned herself and have little chance of obtaining justice. "If the woman's words were sufficient in such cases," explains Judge Zharoor ul Haq of Pakistan, "then no man would be safe."

Women found guilty of fornication were literally locked away against their will,  as the Koran 4.15 says: "Shut them up within their houses till death release them, or God make some way for them." However this was later cancelled and STONING substituted for adultery and one
hundred lashes for fornication.  When a woman is stoned, a hole to receive her is dug as deep as her waist—the Prophet himself seems to have ordered such procedure. It is lawful for a man to kill his wife and her lover if he catches them in the very act.

In the case where a man suspects his wife of adultery or denies the legitimacy of the offspring, his testimony is worth that of four men. Sura 24.6: "If a man accuses his wife but has no witnesses except himself, he shall swear four times by God that his charge is true, calling down upon himself the curse of God Women and Islam,if he is lying. But if his wife swears four times by God that his charge is false and calls down His curse upon herself if it be true, she shall receive no punishment.

Appearances to the contrary, this is not an example of Koranic justice or equality between the sexes. The woman indeed escapes being stoned to death but she remains rejected and loses her right to the dowery and her right to maintenance, whatever the outcome of the trial. A woman does not have the right to charge her husband in a similar manner.

Religion of Peace!


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: garebear on November 03, 2012, 01:36:03 AM
To treat women well in order to get to heaven does not make you moral, it makes you self-absorbed.

It's grow up time and you're late.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: avxo on November 03, 2012, 10:39:46 AM
Not everything in islam is in the koran, in islam, we also have the prophetic sayings, which are not necessarily in the koran.
For example it doesnt say in the koran about anal sex, but with the prophetic sayings it is different,

for example,

1 – It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The one who has intercourse with his wife in her back passage has disavowed himself of that which was revealed to Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).” Narrated by Abu Dawood (3904); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

2 – It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah will not look at a man who has intercourse with a woman in her back passage.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (1165); classed as saheeh by Ibn Daqeeq al-‘Eid in al-Ilmaam (2/660) and by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

3 – It was narrated that Khuzaymah ibn Thaabit (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah is not too shy to tell the truth” three times. “Do not have intercourse with women in their back passages.” Narrated by Ibn Maajah (1924); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn Maajah.



Thanks for the quotes. But that still doesn't provide a reason. It's just "don't do it." Restrictions without reasons are like bicycles without wheels: not terribly useful.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: a_ahmed on November 03, 2012, 11:29:10 AM
There are plenty of reasons of why not to 'do it'.

-Painful and abusive of woman
-It's a hole where shit comes out, far likely to be a place where you will get some form of diseased infection than where the penis is suppose to go.
-The vagina is pleasurable to a woman by design while an anus is not designed for this, it will tear, bleed, and cause all sorts of problems, people who have anal sex in old age may not be able to even hold bowel movement (quite common in nursing homes).


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: avxo on November 03, 2012, 05:51:30 PM
There are plenty of reasons of why not to 'do it'.

-Painful and abusive of woman

You realize that it's incredibly presumptuous of you to assert what women find painful, right? Just like it is to assert that an activity that many women derive pleasure from is universally painful and to essentially call them liars.


-It's a hole where shit comes out, far likely to be a place where you will get some form of diseased infection than where the penis is suppose to go.

So you find it icky... It may very well be, but that's a silly excuse; after all urine, another waste product, comes out of your urethra. Why is it ok to stick your "garbage truck" in a woman, but not ok if she wants you to stick it in the ass? That you find it icky doesn't make it wrong.

As for diseases, that's true no matter what hole you use. It's true even if the two people having sex are faithful to each other. The solution to that is to use protection.


-The vagina is pleasurable to a woman by design while an anus is not designed for this, it will tear, bleed, and cause all sorts of problems, people who have anal sex in old age may not be able to even hold bowel movement (quite common in nursing homes).

Some women have life-long problems with bleeding and tearing during intercourse. Perhaps their funboxes weren't as well-designed? Or maybe it was manufacturing problems in China!

As for your ridiculous assertion about incontinence, which you allege is a "common problem", I challenge you to provide one paper on the topic, published by a reputable and peer-reviewed journal on medicine. I'd urge you to think, but that's hardly going to be useful - you'd need at least two brain cells to rub together. What is the mechanism via which penetration of a sphincter muscle in one direction is OK, but penetration in the other is not? That's not to say that the sphincter can't be damaged; it can and does happen. But it's unlikely to happen because of "vanilla" anal sex, unless the guy's cock is quite a bit larger than what men typically have.
 
P.S.: neither the anus nor the vagina were designed - they evolved. You should agree, if for no other reason because they are both incredibly poor designs that would speak volumes about their alleged designer: namely, that he sucks horribly at designing anatomical features.


Title: Re: Kindness to our wives in Islam
Post by: 24KT on November 03, 2012, 09:42:32 PM
Hi Jag!

Grow a brain!  ::)


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: garebear on November 04, 2012, 08:02:09 PM
.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: garebear on November 04, 2012, 08:05:20 PM
Not everything in islam is in the koran, in islam, we also have the prophetic sayings, which are not necessarily in the koran.
For example it doesnt say in the koran about anal sex, but with the prophetic sayings it is different,

for example,

1 – It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “The one who has intercourse with his wife in her back passage has disavowed himself of that which was revealed to Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).” Narrated by Abu Dawood (3904); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Abi Dawood.

2 – It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah will not look at a man who has intercourse with a woman in her back passage.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (1165); classed as saheeh by Ibn Daqeeq al-‘Eid in al-Ilmaam (2/660) and by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

3 – It was narrated that Khuzaymah ibn Thaabit (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Allaah is not too shy to tell the truth” three times. “Do not have intercourse with women in their back passages.” Narrated by Ibn Maajah (1924); classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh Ibn Maajah.


Uh oh, someone said "may Allaah be pleased with him" three times.

Looks like someone's getting into heaven.

Oh, yes he is.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: pedro01 on November 04, 2012, 11:08:44 PM
Quote
Five Afghan schoolgirls have been attacked with battery acid by suspected Taliban fighters in the southern city of Kandahar.

The attack on Wednesday occurred when two men on motorbikes confronted the students outside the Mirwais Nika Girls High School.

Two girls were seriously injured by what was discovered to be battery acid.

School girls in Kandahar are easily identifiable by their uniform - black trousers, a white shirt, black coat and a headscarf.

"We were on the way to school when two men on motorbikes stopped next to us. One of them threw acid on my sister's face. I tried to help her and then they threw acid on me too," said Latefa, a 16-year-old student.

"We were shouting and people came to see what was going on, then the two men escaped," she said.
   
Latefa, who did not give her family name, was hurt and Shamsia, her 18-year-old sister, remains in a serious condition with acid burns across her face.

Girls were banned from attending schools under the Taliban government, which ruled Afghanistan from 1996 to 2001

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2008/11/20081112111240476386.html

Well - if that's being kind to women, I'd hate to see what unkind looks like.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Radical Plato on November 13, 2012, 05:53:34 AM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ob_7HV1v2I


Title: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Stefano on January 05, 2013, 01:41:36 PM
When confronted with the issue of women’s plight in Muslim countries, Muslim apologists insist that their religion has been misunderstood and that Islam actually grants women certain rights. They blame tradition and tribal societies for the low status and oppression of women.

Since Islam exerts absolute power over every aspect of Muslim society, from diet to relations between the sexes, why has it failed in fourteen centuries of its existence, to eradicate injustices against half of its adherents?

Turkey’s women are the most liberated in the Muslim world. This was achieved not through Islamic reformation but through secularisation established by the founder of the modern Turkish republic Kemal Ataturk. Kemal was the product of secular education and had always admired Western culture. He pursued a program of westernisation that affected all aspects of Turkish life – women were granted the vote and veiling was prohibited. If the Turkish system were to collapse and replaced by an Islamic theocracy we can be certain that women’s progress will be reversed and women will be at the mercy of the mullahs. In countries where there has been a raise in fundamentalism and reversal to strict religious law such as Pakistan, Sudan and Afghanistan women are targeted with vengeance and brutality.

 women’s inequality and inferior status in immutable Quranic law  areaccepted by Muslims as the infallible word of God.

“Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because men spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those among you who fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them.” Sura 4:34

“…Women shall with justice have rights similar to those exercised against them, although men have a status above women. God is mighty and wise.” Sura 2:228

Under Shari’a – Islamic law – a man can marry up to four wives. He can divorce his wife or wives by saying “I divorce you” three times. For a wife to obtain a divorce is usually very difficult. Muslim apologists claim that Muslim women have the right to divorce and that in Islam the mother is revered and respected. Upon divorce, fathers win custody of boys over the age of six and girls on the onset of puberty. Many women would be reluctant to divorce violent or polygynous husbands for fear of losing their children. Despite the exaltation of motherhood – Mohammed once told a follower that paradise is found at the feet of the mother – children are considered the property of the father with the mother being merely the caretaker. How is it possible for a Muslim man to respect his mother when immutable religious law proclaims women’s inferiority and inadequacy?

Under the Shari’a, compensation for the murder of a woman is half the amount of that of a man. A woman’s testimony in court is worth only half of a man’s. Women are entitled to only half the inheritance of males; the reason given for these is that males have families to provide for. In sura 4:34 men are granted superiority and authority over women because they spend their wealth to maintain them, this implies that women are a burden on society and that their work in caring for children, household and livestock is insignificant and trivial.

Girls as young as nine can be married off by their father even if the mother disapproves of the marriage, often they end up as second or third wives of much older men – here is a way to instantly eradicate illegal paedophilia! Conservative clerics have resisted moves to raise the minimum age for girls. One of Mohammed’s wives, Aisha was seven when she was betrothed to Mohammed and nine when the marriage was consummated, Mohammed was in his fifties with several wives.

Any attempts by various governments to give women more freedoms, greater property and marriage rights have been vehemently opposed by conservative Islamists, who insist that the reforms are against Islam.

In the Qur’an the prescribed penalty for adultery is one hundred lashes and a year in exile – sura 24:1. However, Mohammed did condemn people to be stoned to death, in one case the rabbis brought a man and a woman accused of adultery, Mohammed ordered the pair to be stoned to death. Today many Islamic fundamentalists advocate the stoning of women and stoning does occur in many Muslim countries.

In Muslim countries, men have the power of life and death over their women. Honour-killers usually escape punishment and the ones that are tried and convicted, receive only a few months in prison where they are treated like heroes by other inmates. Honour killings are carried out by men against women in their family for disobedience or suspected sexual transgressions. Even women who have been raped are killed for defiling the family honour.

In Jordan, the royal family has condemned honour killings but the government has not acted in repealing lenient laws for fear of enraging Islamic conservatives. The frighteningly powerful Islamic Action Front party, has declared that the proposal to introduce harsh laws against honour-killers “would destroy our Islamic, social and family values by stripping men of their humanity when they surprise their wives or female relatives committing adultery” (“family values” are certain to raise their ugly head whenever there is talk of justice for women!). Also they declared that honour killing is an Islamic duty and they justify their actions by the fact that Mohammed advocated stoning for adultery.

A 12-year old Jordanian girl returned home one evening from a walk with some friends. She was confronted by her enraged father who was shouting that she had dishonoured the entire family. He began beating his daughter with sticks and iron chains until she died. He told the police that he killed his only daughter because she went for a walk without his permission.

In Batsail, Bangladesh an 18-year old woman was flogged to death for “immoral” behaviour on the order of Muslim Clerics.
A 16-year old Jordanian girl had her throat slit by her brother after having been raped by another of her brothers.
An Egyptian father paraded his daughter’s severed head through the streets shouting: “I have avenged my honour” .

A woman that is not a virgin on her wedding night is likely to be killed by her male relatives.
.

In countries governed by the Shari’a a woman’s testimony is worth only half of that of a man’s. In Pakistan since Islamisation, rape victims are charged with “zina” – sex outside marriage – and are sent to prison.

In 1977 a Saudi princess and her lover were sentenced to death and executed. The princess was separated from her husband and intended to leave the country with her lover. The execution was captured on camera by a British tourist and was televised all over the world. In Saudi Arabia women are subject to many harsh restrictions. They are forbidden to drive and most jobs are denied to them. The only evidence of their existence is the appearance of their name on their father’s or husband’s ID card. While women are expected to abide by a medieval and self-effacing moral code, Saudi men are importing planeloads of prostitutes from overseas and are buying sex- slaves from impoverished countries in addition to being permitted up to four wives.

The law on adultery usually applies only to women. Since men are permitted up to four wives plus concubines they would hardly have the time for “unlawful” sex! Recently there was a case in Nigeria of a woman accused of sex outside marriage. She was sentenced to death by stoning while the man she had sex with was not charged because there was not enough evidence against him!

When Afghanistan was occupied by the Russians, women’s rights were protected by law – much to the dismay of Islamists. When the Russians withdrew Islamic fundamentalists went to work in eradicating any gains made by women. The Taliban, a product of the Madrasah – fundamentalist religious school where boys spend hours every day reciting and memorizing the Qur’an – has taken the subjugation of women to new heights. Women were barred from employment and girls are forbidden to attend school. Women were also denied medical care because it was illegal for women to be examined by a male doctor. Any woman caught in the company of a male not related to her was sentenced to death and women were not permitted to leave the house without being accompanied by a male relative. Some women earned a small income by baking bread, when discovered by the Taliban they were burned alive in their own ovens.


In the Indian province of Kashmir, Muslim fundamentalists have demanded that all women (even those who are not Muslim) start wearing veils. When the call was ignored Muslim thugs threw acid in the faces of uncovered women.

Some Muslims believe that Islam mandates FGM and they continue its practice in order to ensure that their daughters will remain chaste until marriage. The doctrine of “chastity equals goodness” is nothing more than a device designed to control women’s sexuality and to reduce women into objects “new” and “used!” Sounds familiar? In the US, Christian fundamentalists have embarked on a “chastity and family values” crusade in order to curb women’s sexual freedom and autonomy.

Islam’s psychotic obsession with female chastity, modesty and virginity has rendered men incapable of viewing women as equal and worthy companions. How can we expect these men to treat women decently when their religion and culture forbids it! In fact, Muslim men can relax only when their foot is firmly placed on their women’s necks!


In Muslim societies religion governs all aspects of life and has priority over secular laws and local customs, therefore, the excuse that tradition alone is responsible for women’s oppression is untenable. Unless Muslim apologists are prepared to back their claims by a campaign to reform their religion and improve the situation of women, their assertions that Islam is blameless in oppressing women, are null and void.

There is a risk that multiculturalism and freedom of religion will ensure that tradition and religion remain eternally immutable. Should respecting other cultures mean that we should turn a blind eye to sadism, torture and brutality?

How long I wonder, will the world continue to tolerate the gender apartheid in the Islamic world and still persist in calling itself civilised?

QUOTES:

“Women are not given the right to instigate divorce because they are prone to emotional and irrational decision making. A husband, however, can divorce his wife at any time he so wishes.” Ayatollah Ali Moghtadai
Source: www.homa.org

Recommended Reading:

Amnesty International Pakistan: Honour killings of girls and women
“Broken Bangles”…. by Hanifa Dean
“Princess”…. by Jean P. Sasson
“Daughters of Arabia”…. by Jean P. Sasson “
“Desert Royal”…. by Jean P. Sasson
“Not Without my Daughter”…. by Betty Mahmoody
“For the love of a child”…. by Betty Mahmoody
“Unveiled”…. by Cherry Mosteshar
“Without Mercy”…. by Mariam Ali
“SOLD”…. by Mariam Ali
“Princess Sultana’s Daughter”…. by Jean P. Sasson
“Heroine of the Desert”…. by Donya Al-Nahi
“The Wrath of Allah”…. by Robert E Burns
“Do they Hear you When you Cry”…. by Fauziya Kassindja
“Holy Horrors”…. by James Haught
“Once I was a Princess”…. by Jacqueline Gillespie
“Mirage”…. by Soheir Khashogi
“My Forbidden Face”…. by Latifa
“Zoya’s Story”…. by Zoya with John Follain and Rita Cristofani
The Koran
The Hadith (sayings of Mohammed)




Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: TrueBB93 on January 05, 2013, 07:00:37 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Jvh3BNsSkM

Stefano owned AGAIN.

Good guys- 100000
Stefano-0


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Stefano on January 05, 2013, 07:08:38 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Jvh3BNsSkM

Stefano owned AGAIN.

Good guys +100000
Stefano- still making achmutt rage in the face of the truth.
Muslims  -1000000000000(minus) and dropping.



Oh btw - muslims are the villains in this story and in real life.  Try to keep up. ;)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 05, 2013, 07:10:42 PM
We live in reality not your media skewed mentally sick fantasy world :)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Stefano on January 05, 2013, 07:29:51 PM
We live in reality not your media skewed mentally sick fantasy world :)

Exactly and reality is what i posted. You on the other hand prefer to look the other way when presented with reality.

I can understand that. You are in a religion that promotes anything but peace and tolerance so its only naturalthat you'd dig your head in the sand screaming islamaphobe and pretend ithat reality is an illusion.

Maybe you should log in under your other account to back yourself up achmutt.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 05, 2013, 08:17:53 PM
lol sure buddy you're free to be angry and ignorant, but you're still a liar living in delusion :) Here I am, muslim since 2003, dont see me changing my faith and I am living in the west so certainly even with your islamophobe cliches no one is pointing a gun at my head to be mozzlem ;) Likewise with those in my family who became Muslim. And likewise for the millions of converts to islam.

Your hateraid tactics are making me yawn. Hey did you know in the US out of the 4 million muslims 1 million are converts to islam? Yeah very oppressed.

Oh did you also know that the majority of converts to islam are actually white university educated women. Non-muslim facts of hate :D Somehow this doesn't fare well for your scare tactics ;)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: TrueBB93 on January 05, 2013, 09:55:23 PM
Stefano are you ok in the head? Im NOT Ahmed.

Ahmed dont you find it funny? lol


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 05, 2013, 10:11:12 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHY1AwDT16I


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: garebear on January 05, 2013, 10:36:51 PM
lol sure buddy you're free to be angry and ignorant, but you're still a liar living in delusion :) Here I am, muslim since 2003, dont see me changing my faith and I am living in the west so certainly even with your islamophobe cliches no one is pointing a gun at my head to be mozzlem ;) Likewise with those in my family who became Muslim. And likewise for the millions of converts to islam.

Your hateraid tactics are making me yawn. Hey did you know in the US out of the 4 million muslims 1 million are converts to islam? Yeah very oppressed.

Oh did you also know that the majority of converts to islam are actually white university educated women. Non-muslim facts of hate :D Somehow this doesn't fare well for your scare tactics ;)
So the Koran is wrong in what it says?

I'm confused. Should I believe you or the Koran?



Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: TrueBB93 on January 05, 2013, 11:13:03 PM
So the Koran is wrong in what it says?

I'm confused. Should I believe you or the Koran?



what do you mean? explain.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: garebear on January 06, 2013, 03:22:33 AM
what do you mean? explain.
Perhaps I've mixed up the Koran and Suras, but it is here in black and white that women are inferior to men.

Muslims so often loudly and proudly proclaim the code they live by and then abandon it like cowards when it doesn't suit them. That's not the way rational argument works. If it is the infallible truth, then claim it all or admit that it is not the truth.

This is not to pick on Muslims alone, because Christians seek to discriminate against homosexuals while saying nothing of working on Sundays and wearing clothes of mixed fibers.

It is not Islamophobia to point out your inconsistencies, by the way. You just need to own what you say and not run from portions which make you uncomfortable. Otherwise, I can only conclude that you are not really a Muslim.

A_Ahmed has already admitted, on this very site, that he abuses drugs for the purpose of vanity (a kind of two in one sinning, if you will), so I don't expect any better from him.


“Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because men spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those among you who fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them.” Sura 4:34

“…Women shall with justice have rights similar to those exercised against them, although men have a status above women. God is mighty and wise.” Sura 2:228




Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Stefano on January 06, 2013, 01:27:01 PM
lol sure buddy you're free to be angry and ignorant, but you're still a liar living in delusion :) Here I am, muslim since 2003, dont see me changing my faith and I am living in the west so certainly even with your islamophobe cliches no one is pointing a gun at my head to be mozzlem ;) Likewise with those in my family who became Muslim. And likewise for the millions of converts to islam.

Your hateraid tactics are making me yawn. Hey did you know in the US out of the 4 million muslims 1 million are converts to islam? Yeah very oppressed.

Oh did you also know that the majority of converts to islam are actually white university educated women. Non-muslim facts of hate :D Somehow this doesn't fare well for your scare tactics ;)

They see me jihading...they hatin'...lol.

Get over yourself achmutt. No one hates you. We all just laugh at your pathetic attempts to convince us that islam is a religion of peace and respects others  when real world evidence proves otherwise. i guess not all of us get our information from biased islamic media..lol. It seems to be a common tactic among muslims to play victim in order to justify their uncivilized behaviour.

Oh and did you know that there are more university educated muslims, especially the younger generations that are leaving islam? Most are leaving religion altogether while others are converting to less repressive religions. Of course you'd rather shut your senses and ignore those little facts. Did you also know that muslim conversion numbers are exaggerated by the right wingers to create fear tactics and opposition? Too bad you choose to live in ignorance of those minor details.

Did you also know that a vast majority of muslims worldwide are rather disturbed by violent islamic behaviour and rhetoric and would prefer to leave their repressive countries and mosques? Unfortunately they dont have  the resources to leave or immigrate so they live in fear keeping up appearances. They know the repercussions of speaking out or breaking away.  Get out of your house and talk to people instead of sitting in your basement googling through biased islamic sites while taking injection breaks. Maybe you'll actually learn something.

 Christianity doesnt use the same repressive tactics or rhetoric as they used to in the past. Those christians who need to strictly guided and told what to do and how to think are either moving towards radical christian churches or islam where free thinking is discouraged. Those who move away from islam either into other religions or atheism are seeking freedom from repression while those who move towards islam want to be controlled. In other words submit to a life of slavery.

Lastly i don't see why anyone should hate you. I actually pity you. You clearly have psychological problems that you think drugs will fix. . Fortunately for you canada's welfare system allows you to leech off them. This way you can live in a drug filled stupor while living from paycheck to paycheck. Based on your posts you dont seem to have much in way of education so i can hardly blame you for you innccessant anti christian rants. You don't know any better. Typical muslim jihadist blaming the west for everything while living in a western country...lol. The irony.

You live in the prison of your own making with nothing but hate and ignorance as your cellmates. Good luck with that. Not hatin' just sayin.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 06, 2013, 01:36:35 PM
Perhaps I've mixed up the Koran and Suras, but it is here in black and white that women are inferior to men.

Muslims so often loudly and proudly proclaim the code they live by and then abandon it like cowards when it doesn't suit them. That's not the way rational argument works. If it is the infallible truth, then claim it all or admit that it is not the truth.

You'r confusing us with Christians. Christians pick and chose what they want to believe. We muslims are of principle. That's why we are always attacekd for being 'backwards' following something from '1500 years ago'.

Quote
This is not to pick on Muslims alone, because Christians seek to discriminate against homosexuals while saying nothing of working on Sundays and wearing clothes of mixed fibers.

It's christians who pick and chose, they allow homos to be priests and get married today yet the bible condemns homosexuality to death and God destroyed Soddom and Gomorrah for homosexuality and other evils they were into.

Quote
It is not Islamophobia to point out your inconsistencies, by the way. You just need to own what you say and not run from portions which make you uncomfortable. Otherwise, I can only conclude that you are not really a Muslim.
You are concluding non-sense on your own ignorant accord.

Quote
A_Ahmed has already admitted, on this very site, that he abuses drugs for the purpose of vanity (a kind of two in one sinning, if you will), so I don't expect any better from him.

I don't take narcotics, if you are referring to steroids, well I am on trt as per doctor first of all. That's a steroid. I also do bodybuilding so I take higher doses of steroids. In case you didn't know this is a bodybuilding forum.

You're just desperate in finding any ad hominem possible to attack because you have no actual debating points or anything to contribute.

BodyBUILDING drugs are quite different than narcotics and intoxicants like alcohol, heroine, crack, etc..

Caffeine is a drug, aspirin is a drug, all medications are drugs.

Don't be an ignorant tool and equate steroids like the media does with narcotics.

Again you're just trying to be deseperate here.

Quote
“Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because men spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient. They guard their unseen parts because God has guarded them. As for those among you who fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to beds apart and beat them.” Sura 4:34

“…Women shall with justice have rights similar to those exercised against them, although men have a status above women. God is mighty and wise.” Sura 2:228

Yes and what's the context here? Have you read before/after.

First of all it does not say 'beat them' I already posted an article once elaborating the arabic there.

The prophet (pbuh) was angry at men who would beat their wives and commented do you abuse your women and then mount them like animals? There's many hadiths on the subject. So nice try.

Secondly women and men are not equal. We are equally spiritually in front of God but we are not equal, we are different.

It is injustice to make two different things equal. A man is physically stronger so he provides for the family. A woman bears children which is a burden on women, can have periods which is again a burden and challenge. There are different factors which make us different. Men and women how they think. Men and women difference even sexually. Men are hungry like dogs, women not so much.

God is the most wise and knows whats most just unlike mankind.

Look at the injustice of the US where divorce results in 50:50 splits. A woman who doesnt work her whole life but marries a rich guy and divorces him, takes the children, takes half his wealth he worked his whole life, and then lives off that man's wealth for the rest of her life.

It's a topic of it's own.

Women are best suited to take care of children? Ever wonder why? They give birth to children. They carry a child in their womb for 9 months. Loving, caring. Men if they hear babies cry they will be annoyed, a mother will run at the slightest chirp of a child.

These are not just 'quranic facts' but if you're an athiest evolutionary facts eveven if you are to look at it through such a lense.

We men are better suited for certain things than women. Radical feminists goal is to make women do everything men do. Why? Oh if a man can lift 1000lbs well DAMN IT we WOMEN can lift 1000lbs... if men can be construction worker and carry heavy loads well DAMN we women will do it even if we have to take steroids to look manly lol.

It's plain common sense.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Stefano on January 06, 2013, 01:40:51 PM
Sorry achmutt you and common sense dont belong in the same sentence. All you do is regurgiate the brainwashing you recieved from your masters. Islam stole from christianity and is now trying to rise above it. The thief trying to don the garb of respectability.
 :D


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 06, 2013, 02:18:25 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hODSsEclO5Q


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Stefano on January 06, 2013, 02:25:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hODSsEclO5Q

Lol. Whenever achmutt runs out words he reverts back to his slanted islamic youtube clips as if that gains him higher ground. :D

 



Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 06, 2013, 07:47:16 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/540944_421216164605543_408814725_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 06, 2013, 09:05:47 PM
First person to be buried up to the neck and stoned to death by Muslims?

A woman.

When you make allegations you should bring proof.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: pedro01 on January 06, 2013, 10:17:28 PM

I don't take narcotics, if you are referring to steroids, well I am on trt as per doctor first of all. That's a steroid. I also do bodybuilding so I take higher doses of steroids. In case you didn't know this is a bodybuilding forum.

You're just desperate in finding any ad hominem possible to attack because you have no actual debating points or anything to contribute.

BodyBUILDING drugs are quite different than narcotics and intoxicants like alcohol, heroine, crack, etc..

Caffeine is a drug, aspirin is a drug, all medications are drugs.

Don't be an ignorant tool and equate steroids like the media does with narcotics.

What about the stimulants? You take ephedrine too, right?

Speeds OK for some reason?


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: garebear on January 08, 2013, 02:59:28 AM
You'r confusing us with Christians. Christians pick and chose what they want to believe. We muslims are of principle. That's why we are always attacekd for being 'backwards' following something from '1500 years ago'.

It's christians who pick and chose, they allow homos to be priests and get married today yet the bible condemns homosexuality to death and God destroyed Soddom and Gomorrah for homosexuality and other evils they were into.
You are concluding non-sense on your own ignorant accord.

I don't take narcotics, if you are referring to steroids, well I am on trt as per doctor first of all. That's a steroid. I also do bodybuilding so I take higher doses of steroids. In case you didn't know this is a bodybuilding forum.

You're just desperate in finding any ad hominem possible to attack because you have no actual debating points or anything to contribute.

BodyBUILDING drugs are quite different than narcotics and intoxicants like alcohol, heroine, crack, etc..

Caffeine is a drug, aspirin is a drug, all medications are drugs.

Don't be an ignorant tool and equate steroids like the media does with narcotics.

Again you're just trying to be deseperate here.

Yes and what's the context here? Have you read before/after.

First of all it does not say 'beat them' I already posted an article once elaborating the arabic there.

The prophet (pbuh) was angry at men who would beat their wives and commented do you abuse your women and then mount them like animals? There's many hadiths on the subject. So nice try.

Secondly women and men are not equal. We are equally spiritually in front of God but we are not equal, we are different.

It is injustice to make two different things equal. A man is physically stronger so he provides for the family. A woman bears children which is a burden on women, can have periods which is again a burden and challenge. There are different factors which make us different. Men and women how they think. Men and women difference even sexually. Men are hungry like dogs, women not so much.

God is the most wise and knows whats most just unlike mankind.

Look at the injustice of the US where divorce results in 50:50 splits. A woman who doesnt work her whole life but marries a rich guy and divorces him, takes the children, takes half his wealth he worked his whole life, and then lives off that man's wealth for the rest of her life.

It's a topic of it's own.

Women are best suited to take care of children? Ever wonder why? They give birth to children. They carry a child in their womb for 9 months. Loving, caring. Men if they hear babies cry they will be annoyed, a mother will run at the slightest chirp of a child.

These are not just 'quranic facts' but if you're an athiest evolutionary facts eveven if you are to look at it through such a lense.

We men are better suited for certain things than women. Radical feminists goal is to make women do everything men do. Why? Oh if a man can lift 1000lbs well DAMN IT we WOMEN can lift 1000lbs... if men can be construction worker and carry heavy loads well DAMN we women will do it even if we have to take steroids to look manly lol.

It's plain common sense.
You're trying to spin taking drugs for vanity's sake as OK, which proves that you are picking and choosing. So what if a doctor's giving it to you?

You have no credibility.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 08, 2013, 08:50:29 AM
so what if a doctor is giving it to me? lol ok  ::) Seems like you have no valid arguments for discussion only personal attacks and lame accusations.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: pedro01 on January 08, 2013, 08:53:27 AM
so what if a doctor is giving it to me? lol ok  ::) Seems like you have no valid arguments for discussion only personal attacks and lame accusations.

You get your ephedrine from the doctor too?


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 08, 2013, 09:14:51 AM
It's over the counter, as is caffeine. Is caffeine evil too now? You ever take antibiotics? How about aspirin or tylenol or advil? Also evil?

You are just being utterly desperate now at miserable personal attacks :) Narcotic drugs, alcohol are one thing but medications, supplements and drugs that enhance performance or build or rebuild a body are a totally different thing.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: TrueBB93 on January 08, 2013, 09:32:18 AM
It's over the counter, as is caffeine. Is caffeine evil too now? You ever take antibiotics? How about aspirin or tylenol or advil? Also evil?

You are just being utterly desperate now at miserable personal attacks :) Narcotic drugs, alcohol are one thing but medications, supplements and drugs that enhance performance or build or rebuild a body are a totally different thing.

Once again Ahmed says the truth! and your personal attacks(pedro) are a CLASSIC example of being desperate and without any legit debating points left.

the QURAN and SUNNAH stictly forbid intoxicants. Intoxicants and gambling are from the devil, and his tricks to cause problems amongst humans.

hence why even a drop of beer,wine,whiskey, rum ...ect is totally 100% FORBIDDEN.
Weed, herion, cocaine, LSD ect are 100% FORBIDDEN.

infact a person who consumes intoxicants, will have his prayers not accecpted for 40 days(could be even longer im not 100% sure). so he still must pray, yet will get no reward! this is the seriousness of the intoxicant ban in islam!

now, saying ALL drugs are forbidden dosent make sense. As Ahmed said, Caffine is a "drug" but not forbidden at all! infact, during ramadan(month of fasting) muslims must stand for somtimes 1 hr + for prayers AFTER a long day of fasting, drinking coffee or tea can help you concentrate and stand longer in prayer...

so, again: drugs which Intoxicant are forbidden in islam.

now mind your own buiness and quit being nosey. stop with the personal attacks it shows how desperate you are.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Radical Plato on January 08, 2013, 10:23:55 AM
It's over the counter, as is caffeine. Is caffeine evil too now? You ever take antibiotics? How about aspirin or tylenol or advil? Also evil?

You are just being utterly desperate now at miserable personal attacks :) Narcotic drugs, alcohol are one thing but medications, supplements and drugs that enhance performance or build or rebuild a body are a totally different thing.
So what! Alcohol and nicotine are over the counter, also caffeine is an Intoxicant.  And you are including performance enhancers as OK.  Oh, don't drink a glass of wine, but use Stimulants, Painkillers, Sedatives, Diuretics, Blood Boosters and lean mass builders for improving your performance.  What a joke ISLAM is, just another Mind Control Tool and a-ahmed just another hypocrite.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Radical Plato on January 08, 2013, 10:34:27 AM


If you are referring to steroids, well I am on trt as per doctor first of all. That's a steroid. I also do bodybuilding so I take higher doses of steroids.


A-ahmed was bound to out himself as a massive hypocrite at some point

Using steroids to enlarge muscles falls under the forbidden act of changing Allah’s creation. This is what Satan orders his followers to do. Allah tells us in the Qur’ân that Satan declared: “And I will command them and they will make alterations to Allah’s creation.” [Sűrah al-Nisâ’: 119]

 It is unlawful to use them in the manner being described by a-ahmed

Moreover, it has been medically proven that using steroids for body-building without any medical need is harmful to the body. Inducing such harmful effects without a valid medical necessity is prohibited. The Prophet  said: “There shall be neither harm nor the causing of harm.”


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: TrueBB93 on January 08, 2013, 11:11:52 AM
A-ahmed was bound to out himself as a massive hypocrite at some point

Using steroids to enlarge muscles falls under the forbidden act of changing Allah’s creation. This is what Satan orders his followers to do. Allah tells us in the Qur’ân that Satan declared: “And I will command them and they will make alterations to Allah’s creation.” [Sűrah al-Nisâ’: 119]

 It is unlawful to use them in the manner being described by a-ahmed

Moreover, it has been medically proven that using steroids for body-building without any medical need is harmful to the body. Inducing such harmful effects without a valid medical necessity is prohibited. The Prophet  said: “There shall be neither harm nor the causing of harm.”

lol, way to go and find ONE fatwa with this opinion( i know which website you got this from)...i guess you skiped the countless other ones saying diffrent things huh?

also stop with the ignorance, steroids if used properly cause no MAJOR HARM.
but besides this, what does this have to do with WOMENS RIGHTS? this is the WOMENS RIGHTS thread.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: TrueBB93 on January 08, 2013, 11:22:03 AM
So what! Alcohol and nicotine are over the counter, also caffeine is an Intoxicant.  And you are including performance enhancers as OK.  Oh, don't drink a glass of wine, but use Stimulants, Painkillers, Sedatives, Diuretics, Blood Boosters and lean mass builders for improving your performance.  What a joke ISLAM is, just another Mind Control Tool and a-ahmed just another hypocrite.

 If your intoxicated you cannot think. you cannot function(look at drunk driving). I am not sure which planet you come from, but when i drink a coffee i become ALERT and FOCUS better, the oppostie of what alcohal does.

and lets use your logic, dont take steroids, HGH, slin but go ahead and drink and get intoxicated? even though alcohal kills HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, ruins THOUSANDS OF FAMILIES?  ::)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 08, 2013, 12:56:25 PM
They're just trying to create character assassinations, they prove themselves hypocrites as you yourself pointed out talking about OKAYING alcohol and what have you. They have no arguing points so they are resorting to any means necessary to personal attacks.

Besides when was the last time you saw e-kul post anything but hurdles of insults in rage? He is intoxicated with rage lol.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Man of Steel on January 08, 2013, 12:58:01 PM
I don't drink any alcohol whatsover.

I'm sure everyone's bb drugs are procured through a licensed physician because of a legitimate medical need.

I'm sure everyone has zero qualms about using and injecting those bb drugs in front of their children, spouses, parents, grandparents, church leaders, etc....

I'm just sayin.   :)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 08, 2013, 01:33:59 PM
Islam does not forbid performance enhancing medications/drugs. Nor does it forbid medications that cure or prevent diseases. What it does forbid is intoxicants that alter the state of mind, destroy the senses, and make people make ill  and later regretful decisions. That can include narcotics such as heroin, lsd, marijuana, alcohol, meth, etc... besides we all know how these drug users look like or end up looking like.

The only decrees you will find that deem steroids impermissible are ones made without actual knowledge of their effect or workings (medical know-how) but just echoing media fearmongering as in the west which is not medically sound what so ever. "Steroids kill", turn people into psychopaths, etc... etc...

The fact is anything that can bring greater benefit is permissible hence medications have been brewed and invented by Muslims for centuries and medicine flourished under Muslims. Unless it's something explicitly forbidden so such a substance is not allowed for example alcohol. When someone approached Muhammad (pbuh) and said alcohol is a medicine prophet Muhammad (pbuh) responded no Alcohol is a poison. And we know very well today literally it is a poison but people still take it.

Coffee a stimulant was pioneered and spread by Muslims. In fact I remember watching a documentary on Islam and it mentions how in the Muslim world coffee was used but in Britain alcohol was consummed from early morning, mid-day, throughout the whole entire day into the night, that as a result there was a contrast in productivity. Muslims were inventing while europe was stagnating. As was one of the arguing points in the docuemntary (non-muslim documentary).

And really this is now becoming an ad hominem/personal attack and straw picking pit fight, where people have no arguing points and are trying to cause character assassinations and false accusations. That's funny.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 08, 2013, 01:38:41 PM
Before alcoholics anonymous or 'modern science' prophet Muhammad (pbuh) already gave the answer to what we know:

Quote
Muslim, Abu Da'ood and Tirmizi narrate the following Hadith: "A man called Tariq Al Joofi came to the Prophet (PBUH) and asked permission to consume liquor (alcohol), the Prophet refused. The man said: I use it and prescribe it as a medicine. The Prophet (pbuh) answered: 'It is a disease and ailment.'"

Another Hadith says that a man called Tariq ibn Swaid Al Hadrami came to the Prophet (PBUH) and said: "O Messenger of God, In our land we have vineyards and we make wine and drink." The Prophet (PBUH) said: "Stop drinking." The man proclaimed: "We use it as a remedy for the sick." The Prophet said: "It's no remedy. It is an illness itself." (Narrated by Muslim)

Abu Da'ood narrated this Hadith: "God has made for every illness a cure, but never get your cure by things prohibited." Al-Bukhari also narrated a similar Hadith in which the Prophet (pbuh) said: "God didn't make your remedy in any of the things prohibited."

Indeed alcoholism is an illness that plagues the west today severely and instead of education and prevention, there is taxation on this poison.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Man of Steel on January 08, 2013, 01:44:10 PM
Islam does not forbid performance enhancing medications/drugs. Nor does it forbid medications that cure or prevent diseases. What it does forbid is intoxicants that alter the state of mind, destroy the senses, and make people make ill  and later regretful decisions. That can include narcotics such as heroin, lsd, marijuana, alcohol, meth, etc... besides we all know how these drug users look like or end up looking like.

The only decrees you will find that deem steroids impermissible are ones made without actual knowledge of their effect or workings (medical know-how) but just echoing media fearmongering as in the west which is not medically sound what so ever. "Steroids kill", turn people into psychopaths, etc... etc...

The fact is anything that can bring greater benefit is permissible hence medications have been brewed and invented by Muslims for centuries and medicine flourished under Muslims. Unless it's something explicitly forbidden so such a substance is not allowed for example alcohol. When someone approached Muhammad (pbuh) and said alcohol is a medicine prophet Muhammad (pbuh) responded no Alcohol is a poison. And we know very well today literally it is a poison but people still take it.

Coffee a stimulant was pioneered and spread by Muslims. In fact I remember watching a documentary on Islam and it mentions how in the Muslim world coffee was used but in Britain alcohol was consummed from early morning, mid-day, throughout the whole entire day into the night, that as a result there was a contrast in productivity. Muslims were inventing while europe was stagnating. As was one of the arguing points in the docuemntary (non-muslim documentary).

And really this is now becoming an ad hominem/personal attack and straw picking pit fight, where people have no arguing points and are trying to cause character assassinations and false accusations. That's funny.

Let me preface this by saying that my question is not an attempted character assassination.

Just so I understand, you'd have no issue using or injecting bb drugs in front of Islamic leadership or your children or parents or grandparents because bb drugs cannot be considered a chemical intoxicant?


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 08, 2013, 01:53:59 PM
Do you get injections of any kind in front of people besides a doctor? My family knows I am on TRT for life and know that I also self-inject. No way am I waiting half+ hour at doc's office to get a shot. That does not mean I invite them in the room and go hey watch me inject. That makes no sense? You are sounding silly now.

Medications can be taken orally, transdermally, subcutaneously, intra muscularly and intravenously. Do most people even know what these mean? lol. Most people think its okay to take pills. Are all pills okay? Narcotics come in pill form!

Yes I don't go and advertise to everyone that I inject medications. Why? Because there is an ignorant taboo in society where society equates steroids to narcotics when they are nothing a like. Thank the US government and media for that. Ignorance and lack of education.

For an intelligent guy mos, on a body building forum, I fail to see how you are continuing to argue this, do you have a point? Most people have a fear of needles to begin with and for that very reason wouldn't take it. How about B12 shots? How about corticosteroid shots? Hey it has that word steroid in it! Even old ladies get shots! How about insulin shots?

You're going no where with this Mos but I've explained to you from an Islamic perspective anything that can improve, heal or help people is okay. Alcohol and narcotics definitely do not improve people it messes them up. We should get back on topic as this was Islam and woman's rights thread where people without valid points started to create false premises and personal attacks when they could no longer prove anything and were proven wrong.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 08, 2013, 02:09:06 PM
10 Most Powerful Arab Women 2012 »

1 Sheikha Lubna Al Qasimi
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jVZF-d8fUdg/UOw2UfElNaI/AAAAAAAAFcY/QxL_cU5JLm8/s1600/Sheikha-Lubna_profile1.jpg)

Is it tough at the top? Ask Sheikha Lubna Al Qasimi. For the second year running, the UAE’s first female minister tops our women’s power list. And it’s not just any ministerial position; Sheikha Lubna’s brief involves promoting greater trade ties with international partners, which is a vital part of the UAE’s diversification strategy.
 
2 Tawakkul Karman
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-hiHAnBJFeKQ/UOw2gh6XBOI/AAAAAAAAFcg/YrgG_DdTgzw/s1600/Tawakkul-Karman_profile.jpg)
Tawakkul Karman is undoubtedly the female face of the Arab Spring. The youngest winner of the Nobel Peace Prize - aged just 32 - Karman has found herself touring the world, bringing Yemen’s plight before diplomats and fighting for women’s rights.

3 Lubna Olayan
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-F83x8s5xHBA/UOw27WKRZZI/AAAAAAAAFco/fYGYjbhGnuI/s1600/Lubna-Olayan_profile.jpg)
As the CEO of the Riyadh-based Olayan Financing Company, Lubna Olayan is one of Saudi Arabia’s most prolific businesswomen.
The group, which was founded by her father in 1947, is one of the kingdom’s most successful conglomerates with operations spanning distribution, manufacturing, services and investments, across the Middle East. The firm is also one of the largest investors in the Saudi and regional stock markets.

4 Princess Ameerah Al Taweel
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xiaciavCFpY/UOw3HP0IZhI/AAAAAAAAFcw/BtiUMTEO-V4/s1600/Princess-Ameerah_profile.jpg)

The wife of HRH Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal, Princess Ameerah is now one of the world’s most recognised philanthropists through her work at her husband’s foundation. She supports a wide range of humanitarian interests both in Saudi Arabia and across the world.

5 Raja Easa Al Gurg
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-N0ivYhDqaXM/UOw3bKATaUI/AAAAAAAAFdA/S4XphY94KHY/s1600/raja-easa-al-gurg_profile.jpg)
Raja Easa Al Gurg wears many hats. Not only is she the managing director of the Easa Saleh Al Gurg Group, the firm of which her father is chairman, but she is also president of the Dubai Business Women’s Council.
Al Gurg is also deputy chairperson of the board of directors at Dubai Healthcare City Authority, and a board member at both the Dubai Chamber of Commerce & Industry and the Dubai Women’s Council.  She is also a member of the Dubai Economic Council, the Arab International Women’s Forum, the National Advisory Council and the College of Business Sciences.

6 Dr. Amina Al Rustamani
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-f9Mo2PDi6FY/UOw3tcgLOeI/AAAAAAAAFdI/RSbb0JMoulY/s1600/Dr-Amina_profile.jpg)
Many in Dubai will be familiar with the name Dr Amina Al Rustamani, the CEO of TECOM Business Parks, the umbrella organisation for nine of Dubai’s free zones.
Al Rustamani joined TECOM in 2001 as a project engineer for Samacom and quickly moved up the ranks, taking control of Dubai Media City, Dubai Studio City and International Media Production Zone as the executive director of media for TECOM Investments. Al Rustamani has also played a significant role in establishing Dubai International Film Festival and is a regular contributor to leading technical journals in the fields of wireless technology around the world.

7 Sheikha Munira Qubeysi
 
Sheikha Munira Qubeysi is the founder of Qubeysiat, an Islamic group created for women, focusing on organising religious lessons for them.
It has been regarded as instrumental in the spread of religious sentiment amongst young women in the region. The movement was banned in Syria until 2006, when the Syrian government eventually gave its approval and allowed it to teach religion in the country’s mosques. The foundation directs over 80 schools in Damascus alone, teaching 75,000 students. Born in 1933, Sheikha Munira has seen her organisation spread throughout the Middle East, as a result of which, she now has a huge network of madrassas, all built without attracting the ire of local government. By training a new generation of female Islamic scholars, Sheikha Qubeysi has made Islamic knowledge widely accessible.

8 Sheikha Al Bahar
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Cf7KjpIis4c/UOw4Dz8sFmI/AAAAAAAAFdQ/YQ0yeQ1DMYk/s1600/8-Sheikha-Al-Bahar_profile.jpg)
Sheikha Al Bahar started at the National Bank of Kuwait, one of the region’s largest financial institutions, as a trainee.
Today, as the CEO, she manages a portfolio of $16bn and is responsible for loans business, marketing, investment banking and treasury. She also specialises in large and structured finance transactions and contributes to strategy and planning. Sheikha Al Bahar has a degree in international marketing from the Kuwait University, and has attended schools including Harvard Business School, California University, Stanford University and Duke University. She was formerly chairwoman of the Al Watany Bank of Egypt and is vice chair at NBK Capital, the bank’s investment arm. She also sits on the board of the International Bank of Qatar.

9 Hayat Sindi
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Pv3LjZOY28Q/UOw4Q_cXXsI/AAAAAAAAFdY/RBTD2GB3Xys/s1600/Hayat-Sindi_profile.jpg)
Hayat Sindi’s astonishing medical career started with a lie; worried that her family would not let her study abroad, she told her father that she had already been accepted into a prestigious university in the UK.
When she landed in London as a teenager in 1991, she had no university place, no money, and didn’t speak English. Hard work and determination got her a place at King’s College, Cambridge. In 2001, she won a PhD in biotechnology from the top university and has been credited with the invention of MARS (Magnetic Acoustic Resonance Sensor), which combines the effects of light and sound for use in biotechnology. After a stint as a visiting scholar at Harvard, she co-founded Diagnostics for All, an organisation developing a disease-diagnosing paper that changes colours when dabbed with the bodily fluids of someone who is ill. Sindi is also a fellow at PopTech, a US-based non-profit organisation that offers fellowships to scientists promoting innovation. Last year, she launched the Institute for Imagination and Ingenuity, a Middle East focused foundation that will help scientists create business plans and find investors for their ideas.

10 Kholoud Faqih
(http://wisemuslimwomen.org/images/muslimwomen/Kholoud_Faqih-new_pic.jpg)
holoud Faqih made history in 2009 as one of the first women to be appointed as an Islamic judge in Palestine.
The Islamic courts were perhaps the last men-only bastion in the country and the move may well be replicated by other Middle Eastern nations. Faqih won two degrees from the University of Jerusalem, and received her licence in 2001. Between 2003 and 2008, she gained extensive litigation experience, primarily from working for an agency that defends battered women. Faqih beat out dozens of men in the Islamic law exams to secure the post. “I compare us to other Arab Muslim women, and I think we’ve done well,” Faqih told MSNBC in 2009.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Man of Steel on January 08, 2013, 02:10:08 PM
Do you get injections of any kind in front of people besides a doctor? My family knows I am on TRT for life and know that I also self-inject. No way am I waiting half+ hour at doc's office to get a shot. That does not mean I invite them in the room and go hey watch me inject. That makes no sense? You are sounding silly now.

Medications can be taken orally, transdermally, subcutaneously, intra muscularly and intravenously. Do most people even know what these mean? lol. Most people think its okay to take pills. Are all pills okay? Narcotics come in pill form!

Yes I don't go and advertise to everyone that I inject medications. Why? Because there is an ignorant taboo in society where society equates steroids to narcotics when they are nothing a like. Thank the US government and media for that. Ignorance and lack of education.

For an intelligent guy mos, on a body building forum, I fail to see how you are continuing to argue this, do you have a point? Most people have a fear of needles to begin with and for that very reason wouldn't take it. How about B12 shots? How about corticosteroid shots? Hey it has that word steroid in it! Even old ladies get shots! How about insulin shots?

You're going no where with this Mos but I've explained to you from an Islamic perspective anything that can improve, heal or help people is okay. Alcohol and narcotics definitely do not improve people it messes them up. We should get back on topic as this was Islam and woman's rights thread where people without valid points started to create false premises and personal attacks when they could no longer prove anything and were proven wrong.

I'm not arguing with you, I'm asking you a question about your bb drug use and your faith.

Allow me to rephrase, would you have any concerns with your mosque leaders knowing about your lifetime bb drug use?   Would they approve from a faith perspective?


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 08, 2013, 02:10:27 PM
Nobel Peace Prize winner "Tawakkul Karman," 'The mother of Yemen's revolution,' when asked about her Hijab by journalists and how it is not proportionate with her level of intellect and education, replied:
(http://www2.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/Tawakkul+Karman+Clinton+Meets+Yemeni+Nobel+S88_1FM-Be0l.jpg)




“Man in early times was almost naked, and as his intellect evolved he started wearing clothes. What I am today and what I’m wearing represents the highest level of thought and civilization that man has achieved, and is not regressive. It’s the removal of clothes again that is a regression back to the ancient times.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 08, 2013, 02:14:08 PM
I'm not arguing with you, I'm asking you a question about your bb drug use and your faith.

Allow me to rephrase, would you have any concerns with your mosque leaders knowing about your lifetime bb drug use?   Would they approve?


Enough with red herrings and straw arguments. I am disappointed Mos. I've openly spoken about steroids with other Muslims before it's not as much of a stigma as you may think. Back in Arab countries its commonly used and available over the counter. In fact there's been many fatwas talking about gaining weight and getting stronger alone as making it permissible. After all what does it do? It builds bodies. So evil.

Only recently from international criticism was there negative talks in Arab Muslim and non-muslim culture about it. As I've already said more than once, there is a taboo that has been entrenched in western society thanks to the US government and media equating steroids with narcotics. I am not going to stay off topic any longer and as a mod you shouldn't be so coy either. It's pretty common knowledge that body builders use body building and performance enhancing drugs. Only in the west are people ignorant and assume they can 'achieve anything' they see in movies and magazines.

I was the first ignorant to assume I could get to looking like Arnold naturally.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Man of Steel on January 08, 2013, 02:17:05 PM
Enough with red herrings and straw arguments. I am disappointed Mos. I've openly spoken about steroids with other Muslims before it's not as much of a stigma as may think. Back in Arab countries its commonly used and available over the counter. Only recently from international criticism was there some talks about it. As I've already said more than once, there is a taboo that has been entrenched in western society thanks to the US government and media equating steroids with narcotics. I am not going to stay off topic any longer and as a mod you shouldn't be so coy either.

I'm just asking you a question about bb drug use and your faith.

Would Islamic leadership approve of your bb drug use based on the teachings of your faith?  That's all I'm asking.  I've asked this of Christians as well.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 08, 2013, 02:19:25 PM
That would depend on their knowledge of science and medicine obviously. Imams are not scholars, they are community leaders. They go to scholars for their knowledge. If their personal understanding of the subject is of western media they would probably respond in fear of my well being. If they are soundly medically educated without again western media bias they would probably advise to be cautious and do my thing. In Arab countries it's common to go to a doctor and ask to gain weight and ask for steroids and they'll inject you, monitor you. Although as I said earlier there was some criticism of that.

After all western media has put into people's minds that steroids kill people, turn them into psychological monsters, etc... etc... and equate to narcotics. Clearly that would set off alarms to anyone if that were true and tell me stop for my own well being from the point that it would be harmful and not helpful. I would say the same thing from an islamic perspective if I did not know better the function of steroids.

As far as myself from a medical perspective, my body stopped producing naturally enough testosterone, it caused all sorts of havoc in my life, testosterone has definitely helped me get back on track in a number of ways. But that's a story of it's own :) The most common response of most western doctors is to send people first to psychiatrists and get psycho drugs prescribed. I was smart enough to do my own research and demand an endocrinologist.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Man of Steel on January 08, 2013, 02:25:11 PM
That would depend on their knowledge of science and medicine obviously. Imams are not scholars, they are community leaders. They go to scholars for their knowledge. If their personal understanding of the subject is of western media they would probably respond in fear of my well being. If they are soundly medically educated without again western media bias they would probably advise to be cautious and do my thing. In Arab countries it's common to go to a doctor and ask to gain weight and ask for steroids and they'll inject you, monitor you. Although as I said earlier there was some criticism of that.

After all western media has put into people's minds that steroids kill people, turn them into psychological monsters, etc... etc... and equate to narcotics. Clearly that would set off alarms to anyone if that were true and tell me stop for my own well being from the point that it would be harmful and not helpful. I would say the same thing from an islamic perspective if I did not know better the function of steroids.
Thank you, was just needing a bit of perspective.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 08, 2013, 02:27:26 PM
lol oh yes I remember watching this in high school. The drama and melodramatic music never gets old  ::):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FvlIwuQBO8

I didn't know that chugging down an entire bottle of winny was the right way to do it  :P

Ironically in our high school fitness/gym/lifting class we saw another documentary on lifting by some huge juiced up guy talking about lifting heavy, eating heavy, etc... etc... aah the irony. I just said... i...r...o...n..y...  ;D


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: TrueBB93 on January 08, 2013, 02:29:08 PM
That would depend on their knowledge of science and medicine obviously. Imams are not scholars, they are community leaders. They go to scholars for their knowledge. If their personal understanding of the subject is of western media they would probably respond in fear of my well being. If they are soundly medically educated without again western media bias they would probably advise to be cautious and do my thing. In Arab countries it's common to go to a doctor and ask to gain weight and ask for steroids and they'll inject you, monitor you. Although as I said earlier there was some criticism of that.

After all western media has put into people's minds that steroids kill people, turn them into psychological monsters, etc... etc... and equate to narcotics. Clearly that would set off alarms to anyone if that were true and tell me stop for my own well being from the point that it would be harmful and not helpful. I would say the same thing from an islamic perspective if I did not know better the function of steroids.

As far as myself from a medical perspective, my body stopped producing naturally enough testosterone, it caused all sorts of havoc in my life, testosterone has definitely helped me get back on track in a number of ways. But that's a story of it's own :) The most common response of most western doctors is to send people first to psychiatrists and get psycho drugs prescribed. I was smart enough to do my own research and demand an endocrinologist.

Exactly.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Man of Steel on January 08, 2013, 05:13:40 PM
Exactly.

TrueBB93, president of the ahmed fan club and self appointed "hype man" LOL!!



I'm just kiddin ya by the way.   ;)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Man of Steel on January 08, 2013, 05:19:37 PM
lol oh yes I remember watching this in high school. The drama and melodramatic music never gets old  ::):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FvlIwuQBO8

I didn't know that chugging down an entire bottle of winny was the right way to do it  :P

Ironically in our high school fitness/gym/lifting class we saw another documentary on lifting by some huge juiced up guy talking about lifting heavy, eating heavy, etc... etc... aah the irony. I just said... i...r...o...n..y...  ;D

AHAAHAHAHAHAH!!!  I know it ain't funny, but I've seen that before....think I laughed then too....awesome!


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 08, 2013, 06:02:47 PM
I can't believe they make him falcon punch the girl then smash the wall lol, so retarded... and then he does the floor humping hahahha


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Radical Plato on January 08, 2013, 06:30:02 PM
If your intoxicated you cannot think. you cannot function(look at drunk driving). I am not sure which planet you come from, but when i drink a coffee i become ALERT and FOCUS better, the oppostie of what alcohal does.

and lets use your logic, dont take steroids, HGH, slin but go ahead and drink and get intoxicated? even though alcohal kills HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, ruins THOUSANDS OF FAMILIES?  ::)
Alcohol doesn't kill HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE, alcoholism does, I can drink a beer/wine and no problem, I do not become intoxicated and the devil does not suddenly posses me.  I suppose you are going to ignore the tens of millions of people for which alcohol isn't a problem.  Also, caffeine does not increase alertness or focus, in infrequent users, it actually increases their anxiety and regular users of caffeine have built up resistance to the anxiety and their caffeine consumption only counteracts the effects of caffeine withdrawal.  Also when caffeine users withdrawal they also suffer the negative effects of mental fogginess, headaches, dizziness and negative mood.  And pretending body-building pharmaceutics are safe is a recipe for disaster.  Anyway, I wouldn't expect anything  more from religious zealots who love to pick and choose the rules they follow and the ones they won't according to their INTERPRETATION.  Ironically, I think I am a better MUSLIM than you jokers based on Islamic RULES.  Not hard considering how HYPOCRITICAL you blokes are and that you use religion as a guise to cover up your many SINS!


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: TrueBB93 on January 08, 2013, 07:06:47 PM
TrueBB93, president of the ahmed fan club and self appointed "hype man" LOL!!



I'm just kiddin ya by the way.   ;)
::) ya Ahmed t-shirts comming soon. since your a friend I will send you a free one  :P

but, honestly dosent matter if its Ahmed, Bigbobs, Onetimehard or even you youself MOS, if i agree with what you say i will make it known.

lol, its nice we can joke about somthing for once  8)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 09, 2013, 09:57:29 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOOQA-oGi9I


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Man of Steel on January 09, 2013, 11:16:48 AM
::) ya Ahmed t-shirts comming soon. since your a friend I will send you a free one  :P

but, honestly dosent matter if its Ahmed, Bigbobs, Onetimehard or even you youself MOS, if i agree with what you say i will make it known.

lol, its nice we can joke about somthing for once  8)

Nice!  Make it a 4X then LOL!!

Yeah, for me it's real easy, I may not agree with a particular theology or non-theology, but I don't hate people.  I've encountered some atheists that think my love of God is crazy and delusional; yet, we still get along just fine.  I'm pretty good at getting along with everyone.  I think it takes awhile for some to realize that I'm not worried about winning or losing a particular debate....I care about the people in the debate.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 09, 2013, 03:14:52 PM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Eat-Sleep-Bodybuilder-Funny-T-Shirt-in-any-size-/14/!CF6s(HQCGk~$(KGrHqQOKiIE0nUwtzbfBNWtPdVWQQ~~0_35.JPG)

Missing pray and work but something like that :D

(http://image19.spreadshirt.com/image-server/v1/products/20143001/views/1,width=378,height=378,appearanceId=5/eat-sleep-pray-T-Shirts.png)

No one likes work so ignore that part :D

I'm now seriously contemplating making that t-shirt, epic idea lol.

Needs to be fitted, cotton50%, polyester40%, 10% spandex  8) Quality and fitment is important.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 09, 2013, 03:45:13 PM
lmao I'm actually designing it right now.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: TrueBB93 on January 09, 2013, 05:54:33 PM
PRAY, EAT, SLEEP, TRAIN

that what its all about!


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 09, 2013, 05:56:50 PM
check ur pm lol


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: TrueBB93 on January 09, 2013, 06:24:58 PM
check ur pm lol

 :D


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Radical Plato on January 09, 2013, 09:31:17 PM
This is also a popular Muslim T-Shirt - Real Big Seller


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 09, 2013, 09:36:44 PM
No actually it's not. You're just damaged property and mentally demented.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Radical Plato on January 09, 2013, 09:47:32 PM
No actually it's not. You're just damaged property and mentally demented.
I thought you would like that t-shirt, it does seem more honest doesn't it.  If more Muslims were to wear such a top they may gather the respect of others, you may hear people remark "At least they're honest"


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 09, 2013, 10:17:43 PM
No you're just a sick individual with psychological problems that needs serious serious help.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: garebear on January 10, 2013, 02:51:22 AM
This is also a popular Muslim T-Shirt - Real Big Seller
That's catchy!


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: TrueBB93 on January 10, 2013, 05:52:16 AM
^ yea! that is catchy!

you know what the best part is?!

that tee shirt isnt made in a factory! rather just a chance occurance, a total random event!  ::)

if you want one, they cant ship it too you, you have to wait for the shirt to randomly get into the box and ship itself over to you, but first you have to hope by chance the pen randomly  writes the correct adress on the box  ::). 



Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: garebear on January 10, 2013, 06:30:43 AM
 8)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Griffith on January 13, 2013, 03:30:24 AM
Religion is a form of neurosis, a mental illness. A mass delusion where a common neurosis is used in the hopes of deflecting the symptoms of their own individual neuroses.

Any urges for religion is in fact representative of people's yearning to have a father figure to guide them through life.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 18, 2013, 03:25:31 PM
Beautiful story about Umar (ra) !!

Umar ibn al-Khattab (RA) said that a man came to his house to complain about his wife. On reaching the door of his house, the man heard 'Umar's wife shouting at Umar and reviling him. Seeing this, he was about to go back, thinking that 'Umar himself was in the same position and, therefore, could hardly suggest any solution for his problem.

'Umar (RA) saw the man turn back, so he called him and inquired about the purpose of his visit. He said that he had come with a complaint against his wife, but turned back on seeing the Caliph in the same position. 'Umar (RA) told him that he tolerated the excesses of his wife for she had certain rights against him.

Umar (R.A) said, "Isn't it true that she prepares food for me ?, washes clothes for me ? and suckles my children ?, thus saving me the expense of employing a cook, a washerman and a nurse, though she is not legally obliged in any way to do any of these things ? Besides, I enjoy peace of mind because of her and am kept away from indecent acts on account of her. I therefore tolerate all her excesses on account of these benefits. It is right that you should also adopt the same attitude."


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: TrueBB93 on January 18, 2013, 08:33:20 PM
Beautiful story about Umar (ra) !!

Umar ibn al-Khattab (RA) said that a man came to his house to complain about his wife. On reaching the door of his house, the man heard 'Umar's wife shouting at Umar and reviling him. Seeing this, he was about to go back, thinking that 'Umar himself was in the same position and, therefore, could hardly suggest any solution for his problem.

'Umar (RA) saw the man turn back, so he called him and inquired about the purpose of his visit. He said that he had come with a complaint against his wife, but turned back on seeing the Caliph in the same position. 'Umar (RA) told him that he tolerated the excesses of his wife for she had certain rights against him.

Umar (R.A) said, "Isn't it true that she prepares food for me ?, washes clothes for me ? and suckles my children ?, thus saving me the expense of employing a cook, a washerman and a nurse, though she is not legally obliged in any way to do any of these things ? Besides, I enjoy peace of mind because of her and am kept away from indecent acts on account of her. I therefore tolerate all her excesses on account of these benefits. It is right that you should also adopt the same attitude."

Umar was what a man should be.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: garebear on January 19, 2013, 04:04:35 AM
You can say what you like in this thread, but Muslims, by and far, don't treat women well.

We've see it all over the world every day.

To argue otherwise is absurd. You're just embarrassing yourselves.



Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: TrueBB93 on January 19, 2013, 10:06:27 AM
You can say what you like in this thread, but Muslims, by and far, don't treat women well.

We've see it all over the world every day.

To argue otherwise is absurd. You're just embarrassing yourselves.



its not Islam, its the people and their culture.

I agree, in many muslims contries they opress there women, dont let them get educated, forced marriages ..ect. BUT that simply isnt what islam says, its the culture, that causes them to do that.



Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 19, 2013, 02:54:45 PM
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCoiXzTMMU4E4KZwucOFqHMkivWWKKtKtPooitNZkvloc7HDhCgvcQ5uEGGQ)

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxuapbMlZD1qeelg7o1_500.jpg)

On the left Paul's letter to the Coritinthians (new testament book), on the right God's speech in the qur'an


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on January 19, 2013, 02:57:07 PM
The war on Muslims in France and the hypocrisy. Check out these French nuns. While Muslim women wearing Niqab are jailed and fined for wearing niqab.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/548856_442388739143425_1594660589_n.jpg)

These are some french nuns , nobody dares to look at them or call them bad names, nobody dares talk about them in the newspapers, nobody can talk about them in the press or TV!! Nobody can criticize them or say that it is not allowed for them to hide... their faces.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: stingray on January 19, 2013, 06:14:17 PM
(http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQCoiXzTMMU4E4KZwucOFqHMkivWWKKtKtPooitNZkvloc7HDhCgvcQ5uEGGQ)

(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lxuapbMlZD1qeelg7o1_500.jpg)

On the left Paul's letter to the Coritinthians (new testament book), on the right God's speech in the qur'an

Beautiful post ahmed.



Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: stingray on January 19, 2013, 06:15:41 PM
You can say what you like in this thread, but Muslims, by and far, don't treat women well.

We've see it all over the world every day.

To argue otherwise is absurd. You're just embarrassing yourselves.



Hindus and siks rape and abuse a women every 20min in india.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: garebear on January 21, 2013, 10:26:23 PM
its not Islam, its the people and their culture.

I agree, in many muslims contries they opress there women, dont let them get educated, forced marriages ..ect. BUT that simply isnt what islam says, its the culture, that causes them to do that.


It is not simply justified by sharia law, it IS sharia law.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: TrueBB93 on January 21, 2013, 10:33:34 PM
It is not simply justified by sharia law, it IS sharia law.

what do you mean? give me an example.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Man of Steel on March 11, 2013, 11:05:27 AM
My question is in regards to the righteous, muslim women in paradise.   We all hear the cliche comments about "the virgins in paradise", but it's true that the righteous muslim men will enter paradise and be pleasured by voluptuous, chaste maidens.  Women are not promised to be pleasured by numerous young men (can't confirm this though).  

That said, what will the equally righteous muslim women receive in paradise that the men will not?  


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Man of Steel on March 11, 2013, 11:22:58 AM
Another item I was curious about pertains to Surah 4:34 in which men are given the right to "beat / lightly beat / scourge / strike" their wives in a specific context.   Different terms are used for different translations of the Quran so I included them all here; although, the definitions are wide-ranging so they mean different things.  Let's just go with least severe of terms and refer to "lightly beat" in this case.   I understand that some Islamic theologians reference the "light beating" as a gentle, percussive tapping of the women that is unoffensive and painless, but I couldn't find a translation of the Quran that indicated a use of the term "tapping" so I use the "light beating" for consistency.

Now, in this instance my focus is not about the act of men lightly beating their wives given a specific context.  What I question is whether equal muslim women have the right to lightly beat their muslim husbands in a specifically defined setting of their own?  


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Man of Steel on March 11, 2013, 11:32:01 AM
I guess another question I have pertains to polygamy in Islam and women's right therein.   The Quran indicates that men have the divine right to marry up to four muslim wives, but it's understood that many muslim men today are simply in monogamous marriages and that's fine as well.  Islamic theologians also note the vast population of women as compared to men and that women need the protection of muslim men hence the act of polygamy to afford them protection.

In this case my question isn't about the right of muslim men to engage in polygamy with four muslim women (that's established).  What I question is whether muslim women can engage in polygamy with four muslim men?  I haven't come across any verses yet and I was curious.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Man of Steel on March 11, 2013, 11:46:46 AM
Ok LOL, last question and this on pertains to Surah 4:11.  In this case the distribution of inheritance between male and female children is unequal and wondered why that is?  I considered that perhaps it's because men will/do support families of their own and therefore are given a larger inheritance because of that?  Still, not all muslim women are married and would seem that an equal portion of inheritance could greatly help establish their own position (especially if not married).  

Again, questioning why muslim females receive less inheritance than the muslim males from their parents?

I apologize for the question overload LOL, but I thought I'd ask the experts!


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on March 11, 2013, 12:06:10 PM
It is not simply justified by sharia law, it IS sharia law.

Sorry but you clearly don't know what you're talking about. What is Shariah law is that men who rape are to be executed for rape. Women are to be protected. So that's shari'ah law. But women to be 'raped' as justified? No that's just your own sick imagination.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on March 11, 2013, 12:10:11 PM
My question is in regards to the righteous, muslim women in paradise.   We all hear the cliche comments about "the virgins in paradise", but it's true that the righteous muslim men will enter paradise and be pleasured by voluptuous, chaste maidens.  Women are not promised to be pleasured by numerous young men (can't confirm this though).  

That said, what will the equally righteous muslim women receive in paradise that the men will not?  

Yes one of the many promises to men is that they will have beautiful wives. That their worldly wives will be made queens of heaven and that they may get new wives while those who had no wives will certainly be given wives as described. What is wrong with a woman that is attractive, beautiful, chaste, pure? The men who get new wives their wives of this world will be queens and above those women that they may get in heaven.

On the other hand no women are not promised 'many men' but if they did not have a husband they will be given a pious husband.

There is a difference between men and women. We are equal in faith and piety, but not equal. This is known by atheists and all believers alike.

Men are more likely enticed and desiring of women than woman are of men. How often do you hear of women boasting and trolling lets say even on an internet forum about men? And how often do you hear about guys ranting about and obsessing over different women? This forum is a fine example.

What awaits us in paradise will be equitable to what we deserve and what God has prepared for us. It is still nothing like this world.

For example yes there will be sex in heaven, but it will not be smelly, it will not be icky, it will be different.

Absolute equity is a failed concept. Not everyone or everything is equal this is a fact. Communism failed my friend as it is against human nature and how God created us.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on March 11, 2013, 12:13:12 PM
Another item I was curious about pertains to Surah 4:34 in which men are given the right to "beat / lightly beat / scourge / strike" their wives in a specific context.   Different terms are used for different translations of the Quran so I included them all here; although, the definitions are wide-ranging so they mean different things.  Let's just go with least severe of terms and refer to "lightly beat" in this case.   I understand that some Islamic theologians reference the "light beating" as a gentle, percussive tapping of the women that is unoffensive and painless, but I couldn't find a translation of the Quran that indicated a use of the term "tapping" so I use the "light beating" for consistency.

Now, in this instance my focus is not about the act of men lightly beating their wives given a specific context.  What I question is whether equal muslim women have the right to lightly beat their muslim husbands in a specifically defined setting of their own?  

The verdict on this matter is pertaining to unchastity and disobedience. However the actual 'means' is as using something as a miswak a toothbrush. What certain non muslims have equated is with literal beatings and the words used are not 'beating' or 'light beating' but are often translated like that.

The prophet (pbuh) hated men who beat their wives and there's a number of narrations on the subject them being condemned, such men being refused as marriage material, being scrutinized for beating their wives and then sleeping with them, etc...

Abuse of women and domestic violence is against fundemental Islamic teachings and is more so to do with culture and behaviour of individuals.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on March 11, 2013, 12:18:59 PM
Ok LOL, last question and this on pertains to Surah 4:11.  In this case the distribution of inheritance between male and female children is unequal and wondered why that is?  I considered that perhaps it's because men will/do support families of their own and therefore are given a larger inheritance because of that?  Still, not all muslim women are married and would seem that an equal portion of inheritance could greatly help establish their own position (especially if not married).  

Again, questioning why muslim females receive less inheritance than the muslim males from their parents?

I apologize for the question overload LOL, but I thought I'd ask the experts!

It's quite simple to explain.

Women marry and they are to be taken care of by their husbands. While males marry and have to take care of their wives. The financial burden is more on a man than on a woman.

Do you think 50:50 is truly fair? The US is a fine example. Women who marry for money, get a kid, divorce their millionaire husband take 50% of their wealth and the husband ends up potentially broke etc... while the women did not lift a finger in his business venture or whatever hard work he did.

Absolute equity is not justice.

Men and women should be married and not deliberately chose to be single for the rest of their lives. If they so choose to be unmarried and screw around yes, probably they will be end up lonely and broke. Why not follow divine guidance and find peace and comfort in marriage? The same goes for male and female.

Family values are important in Islam and I can see how this can be a problem for those that oppose such values.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on March 11, 2013, 12:26:49 PM
I guess another question I have pertains to polygamy in Islam and women's right therein.   The Quran indicates that men have the divine right to marry up to four muslim wives, but it's understood that many muslim men today are simply in monogamous marriages and that's fine as well.  Islamic theologians also note the vast population of women as compared to men and that women need the protection of muslim men hence the act of polygamy to afford them protection.

In this case my question isn't about the right of muslim men to engage in polygamy with four muslim women (that's established).  What I question is whether muslim women can engage in polygamy with four muslim men?  I haven't come across any verses yet and I was curious.


It's quite simple really.

Can you determine who the father is of a woman who sleeps around without dna testing?

While if you have one husband and more than one wife, you will certainly know who the father and mother are.

No Islam does not permit women to have 'more than one man'. It goes against any sort of family principle.

Lastly Islam is the only religion that limits marriage to 4 women and actually says if you cannot do justice to them then ONLY marry one. No other religion actually limits marriage.

The bible on the other hand has no set limit, it is only because of British secular common law that you do not marry more than one. Traditionally Christians and Jews married multiple women too. In fact the prophets as mentioned in the bible married many wives.  Whether it was Abraham or David or Solomon peace be upon them all, etc...


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on March 11, 2013, 12:50:36 PM
And while someone has bumped this thread:

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/549378_432187450197640_32530157_n.jpg)

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/541371_476852522363713_799785903_n.jpg)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RK0KrP3TCqk

In Christianity it was debated whether a woman even has a soul or if she is even a human or a devil. This was recent history. Such hypocricy to be attacking Islam with falseities when in the christian western world women were not allowed to even vote or own property or have a business or divorce, etc... up until barely the last century.

Islam gave all those rights to women 1400 years ago and in fact Muhammad (pbuh) said in some cases women can surpass men. We are equal in faith, but we are different. Islam recognizes our human nature and differences.

The fact that muslim countries are not ruled by Islam and in fact secular and civil laws, by ignorant people who follow cultural traditions and tribal customs does not mean that is Islam's failure but rather the people's failure by not obeying Islam.

All the domestic abuse, women's rights being denied have far more to do with people not following Islam than the other way around.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Radical Plato on March 11, 2013, 04:52:57 PM

For example yes there will be sex in heaven, but it will not be smelly, it will not be icky, it will be different.

Geez, what a ladies man you must be, if you see sex as smelly and icky.  That's what makes sex great, you must be the worst lay on the planet.  No wonder you became Muslim, you can now justify your shitty performance in the bedroom.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on March 12, 2013, 09:08:40 AM
The Prophet (sallALLAHu alahi wasallam) said "The most perfect of the believers in faith are thebest of them in morals. And the best among them are those who arebest to their wives." [Ahmad 7354, and Tirmidhi 1162]

The Prophet’s beloved wife, Aa’isha, said of her noble husband:
He always helped with the housework and would at times mend his clothes, repair his shoes and sweep the floor. He would milk, protect and feed his animals and do household chores

A great relationship happens when two people truly understand each other and love each other for who they really are. What better example to follow than the example of our beloved Prophet (sallalla hu alahi wasallam).

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/295557_367148536732151_1434827024_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Griffith on March 12, 2013, 01:37:04 PM
This is Getbig, but in all seriousness I have no problem with Islam or its followers....only with close-minded fanatics, but this applies to all religions.

For instance, look at the Turks or Moslems in Bosnia, they have their religion but are able to live secular lives and drink or go out and do whatever they want like a Westerner, yet still respect their religion and culture. Their religion is their own business.

I believe for all religions, this is a good model.




Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on March 14, 2013, 07:54:05 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/601192_478350505547248_1670803693_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on July 24, 2013, 04:28:56 PM
Let us speak for ourselves: five women's experiences of Islamophobic attacks
Muslim women and their clothes, their relationships with men and their place in British society are written and talked about and discussed and debated to death - but rarely are Muslim women included in those discussions themselves. In an attempt to correct this, Huma Qureshi asks five women to share their experiences.

BY HUMA QURESHI PUBLISHED 24 JULY 2013 11:56

(http://www.newstatesman.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/fullnode_image/articles_2013/150482066.jpg)
Muslim women arrive at the Regent's Park Mosque in London on the Eid Al-Fitr day in August 2012. Photograph: Getty Images

What does it feel like to have your hijab yanked off your head by a man shouting abuse at you? Or to be chased down the street, shouted, sworn or spat at because what you are wearing identifies your beliefs?

These are examples of what are described as anti-Muslim incidents specifically against women. Tell Mama, the government-backed organisation which records anti-Muslim behaviour, has said Islamophobic attacks against women have increased in the aftermath of the brutal killing of Drummer Lee Rigby in Woolwich in May. It says approximately 70 per cent of the calls it received since then have come from women. Of reported street attacks, 75 per cent have been against Muslim women wearing Islamic dress.

For Andrew Gilligan, who has criticised Tell Mama’s statistics in the Telegraph and accused it of exaggerating Islamophobia, incidents such as “hijab yanking” are “at the lower level of seriousness” because they do not result in physical injury. Nothing has been as critical as the latest incident in France, where a pregnant Muslim woman miscarried last week after two men attacked her, but to entirely dismiss what some women have been reporting in the UK is still deeply undermining to those who have found themselves at the receiving end of unprovoked assault, physical or verbal, simply because of their faith.

Muslim women and their clothes, their relationships with men and their place in British society are written and talked about and discussed and debated to death - but rarely are Muslim women included in those discussions themselves. That’s why I contacted five Muslim women who have experienced varying degrees of anti-Muslim incidents to find out how it has affected them.

Some have been terrified. Others say things are not bad. Some wear the hijab, some don’t. Most asked to be anonymous because they don’t want their family or jobs to be affected by what they say. All are horrified by Drummer Lee Rigby’s murder. None claim their experiences are representative of Muslim women as a whole - if anything, they are tired of being seen as a homogenous group.

Finally, all agree the media doesn’t help. “No one ever lets us speak for ourselves,” one woman told me. Some feel silenced and ignored by the press, not just because of their religion, but because of their gender too. By sharing their views, they hope they will be heard and not disregarded as statistics that some consider to be utterly meaningless. Here are their experiences.

Ayesha
Ayesha, a 32-year-old who works as an IT analyst in London, was verbally abused and followed on a work trip in Manchester, two days after the Woolwich murder.

“I was going back to my hotel after work meetings. There was a pub down the road from my hotel and as I walked past I heard a group of white men shouting things like ‘Oi, Paki’ and ‘Oi, bin Laden.’ I quickened my pace because I didn’t want anything to kick off. I heard footsteps catching up with me. Then I felt my headscarf pulled back and something tugging on my abaya. At that point, I just ran to my hotel, told the receptionist what had happened and asked him to make sure the men didn’t come in. Then I noticed a slit in my abaya - it had been cut. That’s when I got really scared, because I realised the man who followed me had something sharp in his hands. I couldn’t stop wondering, ‘What if?’ I was shaking. I felt incredibly vulnerable. I just locked myself in my hotel room. Now, I worry about my mum going out on her own, and there have been days I’ve been scared to take the tube.

"Ten years ago, I was set upon by eight youths near my university campus. They called me a terrorist and beat me up. My mistake was to fight back; then they urinated on me. They left laughing. I couldn’t stop crying. The university reported it to the police, but they didn’t find them.

"As a visible Muslim woman, I know I’m an easy target. But it’s cowardly to pick on a woman just because of what she is wearing. It’s not just Islamophobia - this is sexism, too. These men saw me as a weak target, and tried to assert their masculinity over me. I wish people could understand you can’t blanket an entire faith just because of a few  individuals who had nothing to do with us.”

Leila
Leila is a 28-year-old who lives in Oxford. She worked as an accountant before becoming a full time mum to two young children.

“I was walking home with my two kids in their pushchair through the park when a white man on his bike came towards me, looked at me, stopped and spat first at me and then at my children. I felt angry, embarrassed, anxious and scared. But more than anything, I felt shock. What upset me more was that he didn’t just spit at me, but my children too. I knew I had to get home, and as soon as I got in, I phoned my husband. Then I called Tell Mama. I didn’t call the police because, well, what would they do?

"This happened the day after the soldier was killed in Woolwich. Since then, I’ve been nervous to go out. I feel people looking at me though I don’t know if I’m being paranoid. This isn’t the first time something like this has happened. I’ve been chased off a bus by three women who threatened to beat me up because of my hijab. Everyday I heard comments against me on the bus. I was terrified by what they said they’d do and was too scared to go out on my own. Eventually we moved house because of the threats.

"I take my children to a playgroup in a church every week, and I’ve never even taken them to a mosque. It’s upsetting that just because I wear a headscarf, they might get treated differently. I blame the media. It portrays a distorted image of Islam and makes out all of us are bad. I hope things change for my kids.”

Sophia Ditta
Sophia is 34 and lives in Bradford with her family. Four severed pigs heads were left outside her home.

“A fortnight ago, my dad found a pig’s head by our front door. He called the police to report it. I went into the garden to see if there was anything else, and there was another pig’s head. I smelt it before I saw it. It was foul. The police told us to ‘preserve’ them so we kept them under bags overnight until they could come round. They asked if there had been anything else, and I suddenly remembered two bags in the bushes while I’d been gardening two weeks before. At the time, they were too heavy for me to lift and I never got round to it. So we went into the garden and found two more pigs heads in the bags, badly decomposed. They had been there a month - since just after the Woolwich attack. They smelt foul.

"I’ve never suffered any discrimination. We’re not the most devout Muslims, we don’t really go to the mosque and I don’t wear a headscarf. You wouldn’t be able to tell we’re Muslim. I see this as racism not Islamophobia, because no matter how Western we are, or how integrated into society we are, some people don’t see us as British or English. I think this was someone jumping on an EDL bandwagon. They tried to scare us, but it didn’t work. It hasn’t stopped me or my mum from doing anything. I’m not offended by a pig, though I am offended by the foul smell.

"However, I reported it to Tell Mama, because although the police were sympathetic, they told us it was an isolated hate incident and nothing like that had happened in our area before. But I later told my neighbour who is also Muslim. He had found a pig’s head on his property a month ago too, and reported it to the police then. So it just shows they didn’t listen.”

Mehnaz
Mehnaz is originally from the UAE and was living in America until three years ago, when she came to England with her husband and three children to study for her PhD.

“I was dropping my eldest daughter off at school and was reversing the car when another car blocked us in. At first, I thought I was in the way, so I was ready to apologise but then I saw the two young men in the car were screaming and shouting, pointing at me and gesturing at my headscarf in a very aggressive and threatening way. I was just holding my breath all the time. I felt so worried, and all I kept thinking was ‘Please don’t get out of your car.’” I managed to turn the car around and moved, but I was really scared of what they might do. I didn’t want my children to see. It really unsettled me.

"I’m wondering whether this sort of behaviour will be a long-term thing or whether it will go away. My husband and I lived in the States, and even after 9/11, I never felt threatened. The media coverage of Muslims in Britain makes it worse - after the Woolwich murder, the media was so intensely focused on Muslims that I can see why it made people so angry, even though it had nothing to do with us. But we are not all bad, we are well-educated people who pay our taxes and contribute to the economy. Right now, we need an environment that fosters peace rather than hatred and I don’t think the media is helping.”

Ola Ashi
Ola is a 21-year-old psychology student who was born and brought up in Cardiff. Her parents are from Palestine.

“Because I wear hijab, I always feel slightly more vulnerable. It’s always at the back of my mind that something might happen because of it - but it definitely doesn’t keep me up at night or stop me from living my life.

"In the past, I’ve been followed home and spat at in my car. I often get people calling out ‘Paki go home’ when I’m out jogging. One time I came out my house, and people drove past shouting ‘BNP’. At school I used to get my hijab yanked. I’m not bothered what this is called - whether it’s racism or Islamophobia - as long as it’s tackled.

"But I also know that’s it’s just a minority of people who do this. Muslim people don’t like being generalised, and I think it’s important we don’t generalise non-Muslims too. I have plenty of non-Muslim friends and they completely disagree with this kind of behaviour. On the times when I’ve had to involve the police, like when I’ve been followed or harassed, they were very understanding.

"Since the Woolwich attack, I have felt more concerned but mostly I see people sticking together a lot more. My friends and I, whether non-Muslim or Muslim, text each other to remind each other when there’s an EDL demo going on so we can be safe and stay away.

"The way I see it is I just have to show the best side of Islam that I can. My cousins in Gaza worry everyday about staying alive or being bombed by Israel. All I have to deal with is a few slurs. That puts it in perspective.”

Some names have been changed

Source: http://www.newstatesman.com/religion/2013/07/let-us-speak-ourselves-five-womens-experiences-islamophobic-attacks


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Rhino on July 24, 2013, 05:18:45 PM
I was looking back at old posts and now I think ahmed is the troll. What are you doing on getbig? Lol scru u! i always loved my moderate islamic life you aaaaa holeeee until you .... Scruuu youuu whatever i hate you . All muslim hate all muslim thank to you. Get off the internet lol


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on July 29, 2013, 11:33:21 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/21462_505437906203786_1699351144_n.png)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Rhino on July 29, 2013, 02:33:40 PM
I will stop feeding the troll... I mean ahmed. I have female friends from saudi arabia. And yes moderates. They come to Canada to live the Canadian dream. My friend Aisha does not even wear a hijab. She is hot and has nice hair. And Aisha is from Saudia Arabia. I have much love for Aisha. Anyway... She tells me everything. Like painting the windows black. Women can't leave the house. Men beating women and at the mercy of their husband. She thinks you are silly white boy but she likes white guys so she is attracted to you. Lol but think you are silly and should just relax lol
Oh and Aisha my friend from saudi arabia always liked white guys. She is from a whahabism family and has freedom in Canada. They left for a reason. And like I said she dates for the purpose of marriage but has a thing for white guys. =)

Oh yeah... And not even riding a bike is allowed. Aisha was so happy to even ride a bike when we were kids as women cannot ride bikes. I see all the happy faces on muslim girls here riding bikes because back home Islma is oppression but moderates here allow girls to ride bikes.
I know I said I hate you. But part of me likes you too ahmed lol must be jesus talking. Maybe we can train some time if I ever travel or you travel. Or maybe pray together or something.
If you feel the need to post... Go ahead. Not but one leaf falls from the tree without allah seeing to it or withour the permission of the all mighty allah.
I have to admit... So far I find bible a bore compared it al qur'an. We can all agree that Islam and arabic is by far the most beautiful. Mashallah. But, I wont be swayed by just beauty alone. I just appreciate Islam for it's beauty. And lets be honest... It's the Arabic that makes it beautiful... Christianity is beautiful in Arabic too and the most beautiful in Arabic as arabia is the holy land :)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on July 29, 2013, 02:37:23 PM
Rhino, making up stories about painting windows black in saudi arabia? LMAO. Clearly you're an islamophobe evangelical troll pretending to know about Islam and Muslims who never met a Muslim in his life. Just pathetic.

I know these kind of bs stories are awesome on christian forums to 'increase your faith' in saving people around the world but they are far from reality unless you think reality is foxnews and christian evangelical missionary magazines.

It's evident which religion is truth as you require fraud and made up stories to further your 'missionary' work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oqcG1Ws5FE

Touched by the spirit of Christ right?

You need fakeness to promote fakeness. Hope that helps.

Pre-islamic Arab culture is barbaric garbage. The same goes for Christian Arabs who beat their wives and daughters. My Christian Iraqi girlfriend (when we moved apart but kept in touch) got the beats for wanting to marry someone her father didn't approve of (both Christian but one family from the north, different tribe vs the south).

The prophet Muhammad (pbuh) hated men who hit their wives and he never hit any of his wives ever. He advised people to not marry such men.. and spoke against them. In fact in the last sermon he emphasized the kind treatment of women. Now why do you think in his LAST SERMON he would pick such a topic if Islam oppresses women? In other words its important to treat women with kindness and respect.

On the other hand Christians up until the recent centuries debated if women have a soul lol.

Your arguments are invalid troll.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on July 29, 2013, 02:38:06 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOLHfIW5hyE


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on July 31, 2013, 03:33:00 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/1011261_536030296431989_815523136_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Rhino on July 31, 2013, 05:57:17 PM
What do you want ahmed? I always loved Islam. There are no stories here. If you love Islam too, then I am happy. :)
I just got sick and tired of the whole thing. Do you want me to go back to Islam? Why should I? Just to face bull shit and ridicule everyday? I don't face this crap as a Christian so f off already.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on August 01, 2013, 09:52:26 AM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-frc3/q71/970024_531012753614356_1603817365_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: avxo on August 01, 2013, 10:04:34 AM
First of all, it's spelled "Nobel" after Alfred Nobel. Second, "highest level of thought and civilization"? Hardly, and a trivial matter to disprove to any rational observer. And lastly, logical holes in the content of the post aside, if that argument were true then why is did she go from wearing a niqab to a hijab to a simple scarf?

And let's not even bother asking the question, "did she actually say this or did some inarticulate clown paste those words alongside her picture and name and put the resulting agglutination online?"


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on August 01, 2013, 12:03:41 PM
^did not read because poster fails at life thinking he's an accident.


#SHOCKING!!! 55-YEAR OLD MUSLIM WOMAN BEATEN UNCONSCIOUS IN #MAYFAIR (LONDON)

Islamic Human Rights Commission (IHRC) received a very troubling report of a violent hate-crime against a 55-year-old Muslim woman in Mayfair.

She was grabbed from behind and punched repeatedly on the back of the head. She fell face down on the pavement.

The attacker then grabbed her head scarf and dragged her along the pavement, continuing to beat her around the head and face

He shouted profanities at Muslims, Ramadhan whilst beating her, as well as spitting on her, he had the women's blood on his shirt and hands

With his bloody hands he slapped her on the face, leaving a blood-stained hand print on her face

He then ran off, the women fell unconscious. The hate crime has been reported to the police.

http://www.ihrc.org.uk/news/articles/10631-horrific-attack-on-55-year-old-muslim-woman


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: avxo on August 01, 2013, 12:10:56 PM
^did not read because poster fails at life thinking he's an accident.


Except that's not what I think and you know it. Which makes me conclude that you are lying. Is that what good Muslims do? Spam online fora and lie through their teeth?

If you can't win a rational debate against me then be man enough to admit it. It's not that big deal and theres no need to act all petty and make silly underhanded comments like the above - and certainly no reason to lie and sully the good name of muslims, who are honest and truthful according to the Qur'an.



#SHOCKING!!! 55-YEAR OLD MUSLIM WOMAN BEATEN UNCONSCIOUS IN #MAYFAIR (LONDON)

Islamic Human Rights Commission (IHRC) received a very troubling report of a violent hate-crime against a 55-year-old Muslim woman in Mayfair.

She was grabbed from behind and punched repeatedly on the back of the head. She fell face down on the pavement.

The attacker then grabbed her head scarf and dragged her along the pavement, continuing to beat her around the head and face

He shouted profanities at Muslims, Ramadhan whilst beating her, as well as spitting on her, he had the women's blood on his shirt and hands

With his bloody hands he slapped her on the face, leaving a blood-stained hand print on her face

He then ran off, the women fell unconscious. The hate crime has been reported to the police.

http://www.ihrc.org.uk/news/articles/10631-horrific-attack-on-55-year-old-muslim-woman

That's pretty fucked up. Violence is a horrible thing and violent acts like this should be condemned, as should those who do initiate them.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on August 01, 2013, 12:18:37 PM
She said it, you don't like it. Too bad. Bickering about irrelevance = u mad.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: avxo on August 01, 2013, 12:27:07 PM
She said it, you don't like it. Too bad. Bickering about irrelevance = u mad.

She did? Can you provide an actual quote from a reputable publication instead of a picture made by someone?



Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Skeletor on August 01, 2013, 05:53:31 PM
^did not read because poster fails at life thinking he's an accident.


#SHOCKING!!! 55-YEAR OLD MUSLIM WOMAN BEATEN UNCONSCIOUS IN #MAYFAIR (LONDON)

Islamic Human Rights Commission (IHRC) received a very troubling report of a violent hate-crime against a 55-year-old Muslim woman in Mayfair.

She was grabbed from behind and punched repeatedly on the back of the head. She fell face down on the pavement.

The attacker then grabbed her head scarf and dragged her along the pavement, continuing to beat her around the head and face

He shouted profanities at Muslims, Ramadhan whilst beating her, as well as spitting on her, he had the women's blood on his shirt and hands

With his bloody hands he slapped her on the face, leaving a blood-stained hand print on her face

He then ran off, the women fell unconscious. The hate crime has been reported to the police.

http://www.ihrc.org.uk/news/articles/10631-horrific-attack-on-55-year-old-muslim-woman

Do you have any idea about attacks from muslims towards non-muslims in the UK? (which of course are never classified as "racist" or "hate crimes")


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on August 01, 2013, 06:25:11 PM
^no not at all because it doesn't get repeated 247 for months on months with experts and 'analysts' blaring on every tv station about it every single day. Oh wait they do?

You must be living under a rock because it's in fact the attacks on Muslims that are under-reported, not reported, skewed or covered up as much as possible on mainstream media.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Skeletor on August 01, 2013, 06:31:44 PM
^no not at all because it doesn't get repeated 247 for months on months with experts and 'analysts' blaring on every tv station about it every single day. Oh wait they do?

You must be living under a rock because it's in fact the attacks on Muslims that are under-reported, not reported, skewed or covered up as much as possible on mainstream media.

The usual "under-reported" whine... Have you been to the UK to actually see the muslim areas?


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: avxo on August 01, 2013, 09:47:34 PM
The usual "under-reported" whine... Have you been to the UK to actually see the muslim areas?

Don't ask Ahmed questions. They challenge his perception of reality and, by extension, the Qur'an. And that's bad. Besides, it's not like he will cogently answer anything. He just posts links and parrots his grimoire incessantly.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Man of Steel on August 02, 2013, 09:07:49 AM
Don't ask Ahmed questions. They challenge his perception of reality and, by extension, the Qur'an. And that's bad. Besides, it's not like he will cogently answer anything. He just posts links and parrots his grimoire incessantly.

Wow "grimoire"....epic word usage!!  Somebody's played some D&D!!   ;)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: pedro01 on August 04, 2013, 02:07:48 PM
The usual "under-reported" whine... Have you been to the UK to actually see the muslim areas?

Ahmed doesn't get to travel so much now he's on the "no fly" list.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on August 04, 2013, 04:01:45 PM
May Allah (swt) bless her for standing up for the truth against the US backed up military junta.

Egypt denies entry to Yemeni Nobel laureate Tawakul Karman
Peace prize winner who voiced support for ousted president Mohamed Morsi held at Cairo airport before being deported

(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2013/8/4/1375634439119/Tawakul-Karman-of-Yemen--010.jpg)

Tawakul Karman was sent back on the same plane she flew into Egypt on, security sources said Photograph: Remo Casilli/Reuters

Egypt barred the Yemeni Nobel peace laureate Tawakul Karman from entering the country on Sunday and put her on a flight back to Dubai, security sources said.

State news agency Mena said Karman, who had previously announced her solidarity with supporters of Mohamed Morsi, overthrown by the army a month ago, was on a list of people who were not allowed to enter Egypt.

A spokesman for Morsi's Muslim Brotherhood said Karman had recently joined demonstrations in Cairo demanding the former leader be reinstated.

Karman's Twitter feed on Sunday said the writer and activist had been held at Cairo airport and prevented from joining protests. She was sent back on the same plane she flew in on, the security sources said.

The Brotherhood criticised Karman's deportation and said it was reminiscent of the rule of former autocrat Hosni Mubarak.

"This is an abandonment of the gains of Egypt's January revolution. The government is reproducing the practices of Mubarak's state security," said Yasser Ali, a Brotherhood official and former presidential spokesman.

Karman, a 34-year-old mother of three, who became a figure of symbolic importance in the 2011 Yemeni uprising, became the first Arab woman and second Muslim woman to win the Nobel peace prize. In Yemen she is called the "Iron Woman" and "Mother of the Revolution".

A member of Yemen's leading Islamic opposition party, the Islah, Karman had denounced the army's toppling of Morsi, calling it a coup and a "blow to democracy".

In a statement on Friday, she said it had weakened moderate political Islam and strengthened the hand of religious extremists in the Arab world.

"We can't allow this sense of disappointment in democracy to grow. This is terrifying. Rest assured the first beneficiary of the weakening currents of political Islam are violent terror groups."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/04/egypt-nobel-laureate-tawakul-karman


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on August 09, 2013, 01:52:21 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/p480x480/1098027_392648790835554_294146222_n.jpg)

My name is Marwa Sherbini, I was murdered in a German court along with my husband and unborn child.

What was my crime?

I was a Muslim...

An islamaphobic hooligan attacked me in the street simply because I wore hijab. I refused to leave this matter without due process out of fear that he would harm another one of my sisters, so I informed the authorities and took a stand in court against him.

Little did I know, what was to follow...

This retched man smuggled a knife in to the court room, how he got it past the authorities is beyond me.

He leaped across the stand and stabbed me!! In the middle of the court room! Where bailiffs and police were present!!
Not once, not twice but 18 TIMES!!!

The sad thing is, no one flinched to come to my rescue! He managed to stab me 18 times, murdering my unborn child and me, but in that time not a single armed guard reacted!

It was my dear husband who came to my rescue... He ran towards me in hope of protecting me and our child from this savage but before he could reach me the bailiffs SHOT HIM DOWN!!!

Not the man with the knife who was savagely hacking away at me but my husband! The one who was coming to protect me!!

Is this how justice works in the west?


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on August 10, 2013, 07:43:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmbN4kDre5o


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: avxo on August 10, 2013, 10:25:25 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/p480x480/1098027_392648790835554_294146222_n.jpg)

My name is Marwa Sherbini, I was murdered in a German court along with my husband and unborn child.

What was my crime?

I was a Muslim...

An islamaphobic hooligan attacked me in the street simply because I wore hijab. I refused to leave this matter without due process out of fear that he would harm another one of my sisters, so I informed the authorities and took a stand in court against him.

Little did I know, what was to follow...

This retched man smuggled a knife in to the court room, how he got it past the authorities is beyond me.

He leaped across the stand and stabbed me!! In the middle of the court room! Where bailiffs and police were present!!
Not once, not twice but 18 TIMES!!!

The sad thing is, no one flinched to come to my rescue! He managed to stab me 18 times, murdering my unborn child and me, but in that time not a single armed guard reacted!

It was my dear husband who came to my rescue... He ran towards me in hope of protecting me and our child from this savage but before he could reach me the bailiffs SHOT HIM DOWN!!!

Not the man with the knife who was savagely hacking away at me but my husband! The one who was coming to protect me!!

Is this how justice works in the west?

That's pretty fucked up and quite tragic. I looked up the story online and the thug that did the stabbing at least got convicted of murder and got a life sentence. But from what I read, the situation was pretty crazy in the Courtroom and the police who were not in the Courtroom at the time of the incident and responded to an alarm raised by the Judge almost certainly made a tragic - but understandable - mistake in the frenzy.

But what's just as fucked up is that you (and your ilk) would use this tragedy and this woman's name in this manner to promote your agenda by putting words in her mouth and pretending that the cops (who, again, were not in the Court when the stabbing occurred but rushed in after the incident was already well under way) shot her husband on purpose instead of focusing on the real assailant.

That is pretty fucking sick Ahmed. Almost as sick as the perpetrator of this heinous crime.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: anabolichalo on August 11, 2013, 06:57:53 AM


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuEljkNR3ss
money good


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Griffith on August 12, 2013, 03:50:44 AM
Do you have any idea about attacks from muslims towards non-muslims in the UK? (which of course are never classified as "racist" or "hate crimes")

Exactly.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Psychopath on August 12, 2013, 06:13:07 AM
If you compare women rights in Islam vs Western democracies, then Islam loses big time.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on August 12, 2013, 08:51:13 AM
Please give me an example how islam 'loses big time'


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Psychopath on August 12, 2013, 09:18:49 AM
Please give me an example how islam 'loses big time'

Inheritance, employment opportunities without social stigma, sexual discrimination/harassment laws, divorce rights and alimony, non-chauvinistic male centric world view/environment, personal freedom without dependence on a "wali"(guardian). 

Islam's women's rights is relatively good in comparison to other religions, in addition to the time it came about.

...But modern western democracies have radically surpassed this for almost a century now. Not only Islam, but all pre-modern history.   


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on August 12, 2013, 02:03:08 PM
Inheritance, employment opportunities without social stigma, sexual discrimination/harassment laws, divorce rights and alimony, non-chauvinistic male centric world view/environment, personal freedom without dependence on a "wali"(guardian).  

Islam's women's rights is relatively good in comparison to other religions, in addition to the time it came about.

...But modern western democracies have radically surpassed this for almost a century now. Not only Islam, but all pre-modern history.  

Excellent I'm glad you brought these up.

The problem is that western ideal of 'freedom' or 'equality' has a problem in on itself. The limits set as to what is 'freedom' in western society are loose and 'equality' in terms of genders in the west is beyond reason and beyond reality.

Absolute equality is neither just or fair. Why? There's a few factors to consider.

Are men and women truly equal in every sense of the word? No we are not. Is a man or a woman more likely to be raped? Is a man or a woman likely more vulnerable to being assaulted or more prone to violence and have the inability to defend him or herself? Is a man or a woman capable of physically being stronger than the one or the other? Is a man able to give birth or carry a child in the womb or deliver a baby?

What the west deems as 'equality' is in the absolute. Such as in the US the divorce laws of 50:50 splits unless a prior writing is written out.

So in fact it is the west that is taking away the rights of men and women, imposing injustice on men and women, placing one or the other in vulnerable positions while Islam takes into account all these differences while the western value system does not.

Furthermore Islam defends the dignity and value of women, protects women while the west exposes them to vulnerability and exploitation.

Lastly Islam protects the family while the west is degrading the family.

Lets now take a look at your claims one by one and see what's actually happening.

Inheritance

First of all, a will and inheritance is mandatory in Islam, unlike in the west where people are often left out of any kind of inheritance and the government or corporations or certain organizations can posess property if no will is left behind. In Islam it's set in stone so that no one is ever left out of what they inherit.

The way wealth is divided is with wisdom amongst the younger/elderly and the two genders. Men are the carriers of families and they carry the burden of working and providing. Islam emphasises on family values. Islam does not burden a woman to work. She can work if she wants to but she does not have to. The burden is upon a man. So when a woman inherits less than a man it is because although she was under the care of her wali and family, her husband will be the one responsible for providing for her and she has no responsibility to provide for herself what she inherits is thus just. A man on the other hand will have the burden and will also be accountable for taking care of his parents, while a woman also does not have this primary responsibility.

Thus God who created us takes into account what is just towards men and women as to not overburden one or the other while protecting the family which is the foundation of society.

divorce rights and alimony

As I already mentioned, the idea of western 'equality'. Where is the justice in a man working his ass off his whole life, and some whore marries him for his money, gets children, divorces him and gets 50:50 while she didn't lift a finger in her life. This is injustice towards the man.

When a woman is married she is given a gift which is solely her own that can be anything or any amount and the purpose of it is to protect the women or it can be symbolic. The man cannot take it back.

A woman can divorce and there is no blame on her if she decides to, however Islam discourages divorce, but allows it. It discourages it as the first step is counselling and trying to determine what a problem is and try to hold the family together.

However if it is not reconcilable and divorce is the only option that is final.

Employment opportunities

I'll start again with the 'absolute equality'. The oppression of women in the west led to extreme feminism which tried to make women absolute equals to men again. So if a "man can do it" "I can do it". So that includes shoveling roads, driving trucks, looking like a male bodybuilder on stage jacked with male hormones, anything goes. The reality however is, still like any society the burden of a woman bearing children, taking care of family and children still exists. So in reality it is the west that oppresses women by overburden responsibilites upon a woman.

In Islam a woman does not have to work as the responsibility falls purely upon a man to provide for his family. However if a woman wants to work or run her own business a man cannot TOUCH her earnings what so ever. Anything she contributes towards him or the family is considered charity as it is her own property and no one can touch it.

Can a woman do "ANY KIND" of job in Islam such as being a stripper 'if she wants to'. No but again this is where the looseness of western values falls short.

sexual discrimination/harassment laws

The what? Please state what you are talking about because there is no 'sexual harassment laws'. If anything the only such laws would be for punishing men who sexually harass women. The protection of women in Islam is of great importance.

personal freedom without dependence on a "wali"(guardian).

What "freedom". Define "freedom". Freedom to go out with men, date, sex? The whole point of a wali as you mention is a gaurdian. Someone to protect the woman when they can be exploited by asshole men just as is evident on most bodybuilding boards where guys post pix of girls they banged in one night stands.

Tell me please that you wouldn't be concerned for your own daughter? Yes in western society it is quit ethe norm for children to tell their parents F off, be disrespectful and do whatever the hell they want as society definetely encourages this and many other 'freedoms'. The point of the parents is to raise their children with etiquette, values, respect, a future. The point of the father protecting his daughter is just that.

If she wants to marry someone and there is no fault with the man and he is sound, but the father objects and the woman still wants to marry the wali can be overruled by a judge. The whole point is to ensure the safety and well being of a woman.

A mature woman who was divorced does not require a wali for example. A woman who does not have parents or uncles or whoever can seek a wali to represent her to investigate the man, find out how he is, etc...

So as you can see everything comes down to protection of women, protection of family and justice. So it's not lack of rights but in fact giving proper rights and not the so called 'freedoms' that the loose western values are slowly eroded by.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Psychopath on August 12, 2013, 03:48:52 PM
Excellent I'm glad you brought these up.

The problem is that western ideal of 'freedom' or 'equality' has a problem in on itself. The limits set as to what is 'freedom' in western society are loose and 'equality' in terms of genders in the west is beyond reason and beyond reality.

Absolute equality is neither just or fair. Why? There's a few factors to consider.

Are men and women truly equal in every sense of the word? No we are not. Is a man or a woman more likely to be raped? Is a man or a woman likely more vulnerable to being assaulted or more prone to violence and have the inability to defend him or herself? Is a man or a woman capable of physically being stronger than the one or the other? Is a man able to give birth or carry a child in the womb or deliver a baby?

What the west deems as 'equality' is in the absolute. Such as in the US the divorce laws of 50:50 splits unless a prior writing is written out.

So in fact it is the west that is taking away the rights of men and women, imposing injustice on men and women, placing one or the other in vulnerable positions while Islam takes into account all these differences while the western value system does not.

Furthermore Islam defends the dignity and value of women, protects women while the west exposes them to vulnerability and exploitation.

Lastly Islam protects the family while the west is degrading the family.

Lets now take a look at your claims one by one and see what's actually happening.

Inheritance

First of all, a will and inheritance is mandatory in Islam, unlike in the west where people are often left out of any kind of inheritance and the government or corporations or certain organizations can posess property if no will is left behind. In Islam it's set in stone so that no one is ever left out of what they inherit.

The way wealth is divided is with wisdom amongst the younger/elderly and the two genders. Men are the carriers of families and they carry the burden of working and providing. Islam emphasises on family values. Islam does not burden a woman to work. She can work if she wants to but she does not have to. The burden is upon a man. So when a woman inherits less than a man it is because although she was under the care of her wali and family, her husband will be the one responsible for providing for her and she has no responsibility to provide for herself what she inherits is thus just. A man on the other hand will have the burden and will also be accountable for taking care of his parents, while a woman also does not have this primary responsibility.

Thus God who created us takes into account what is just towards men and women as to not overburden one or the other while protecting the family which is the foundation of society.

divorce rights and alimony

As I already mentioned, the idea of western 'equality'. Where is the justice in a man working his ass off his whole life, and some whore marries him for his money, gets children, divorces him and gets 50:50 while she didn't lift a finger in her life. This is injustice towards the man.

When a woman is married she is given a gift which is solely her own that can be anything or any amount and the purpose of it is to protect the women or it can be symbolic. The man cannot take it back.

A woman can divorce and there is no blame on her if she decides to, however Islam discourages divorce, but allows it. It discourages it as the first step is counselling and trying to determine what a problem is and try to hold the family together.

However if it is not reconcilable and divorce is the only option that is final.

Employment opportunities

I'll start again with the 'absolute equality'. The oppression of women in the west led to extreme feminism which tried to make women absolute equals to men again. So if a "man can do it" "I can do it". So that includes shoveling roads, driving trucks, looking like a male bodybuilder on stage jacked with male hormones, anything goes. The reality however is, still like any society the burden of a woman bearing children, taking care of family and children still exists. So in reality it is the west that oppresses women by overburden responsibilites upon a woman.

In Islam a woman does not have to work as the responsibility falls purely upon a man to provide for his family. However if a woman wants to work or run her own business a man cannot TOUCH her earnings what so ever. Anything she contributes towards him or the family is considered charity as it is her own property and no one can touch it.

Can a woman do "ANY KIND" of job in Islam such as being a stripper 'if she wants to'. No but again this is where the looseness of western values falls short.

sexual discrimination/harassment laws

The what? Please state what you are talking about because there is no 'sexual harassment laws'. If anything the only such laws would be for punishing men who sexually harass women. The protection of women in Islam is of great importance.

personal freedom without dependence on a "wali"(guardian).

What "freedom". Define "freedom". Freedom to go out with men, date, sex? The whole point of a wali as you mention is a gaurdian. Someone to protect the woman when they can be exploited by asshole men just as is evident on most bodybuilding boards where guys post pix of girls they banged in one night stands.

Tell me please that you wouldn't be concerned for your own daughter? Yes in western society it is quit ethe norm for children to tell their parents F off, be disrespectful and do whatever the hell they want as society definetely encourages this and many other 'freedoms'. The point of the parents is to raise their children with etiquette, values, respect, a future. The point of the father protecting his daughter is just that.

If she wants to marry someone and there is no fault with the man and he is sound, but the father objects and the woman still wants to marry the wali can be overruled by a judge. The whole point is to ensure the safety and well being of a woman.

A mature woman who was divorced does not require a wali for example. A woman who does not have parents or uncles or whoever can seek a wali to represent her to investigate the man, find out how he is, etc...

So as you can see everything comes down to protection of women, protection of family and justice. So it's not lack of rights but in fact giving proper rights and not the so called 'freedoms' that the loose western values are slowly eroded by.


I'm fully aware of what you wrote, and in an ideal world, a person who willingly submits to this belief system, should be able to live a life of relative quality and justice.

The problem lies in people's application and level of adherence to divine guidance.

I've interacted with many Muslims in my life time, and i've come across very few who follow their religion properly. I've even spoke to people who complain about the mass Muslim ignorance and the difficulty it presents when they try to live a life strictly based on divine guidance.

Matter of fact, the above stated topic dominates most lectures and seminars held since the resurgence of Islam after secular socialist/nationalist movements in the Muslim world.

Many of what Muslims follow today is adulterated, bastardized cultural adaptations based off divine guidelines.

In this case, when a person chooses to become Muslim, he is not only at the mercy of his own level of understanding, but also collective society as a whole.

A Muslim who has a  high level of understanding of his religion will find that most Muslim countries are corrupt, misguided, hypocritical, and unjust.

To attempt to remedy this reality is a highly complex riddle in itself.

That's why i like western ideals and laws. They have standardized basic human rights and freedoms, and developed a functioning common law that delivers justice more than chaos and injustice.

I know you live in Canada, and i can assure you, you can practice your religion with more ease than Muslim countries, with no fear of persecution or abuse disguised with religious undertones.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on August 12, 2013, 04:06:35 PM
As you are aware I lived in Arab Muslim countries before ever being a Muslim so I am well aware of the situation and I am well aware of the Muslim worled how those countries are not ruled by Islam but rather secular values, secular puppet regimes and dictatorships which have only trace elements of some islamic values as you said bastardized and not properly implemented. People following tribal or cultural customs rather than Islam does not negate Islam, rather it showcases that what they are following is backwards and not islam.

So again the problem is not with Islam but rather those people not following Islam. So you argument of western values still 'being better' is invalid, because there is no problem with Islam but rather people who do not follow it or are ignorant.

As a person who has embraced Islam, I and those who practice the religion want to implement Islam not cultural or tribal customs. So Muslims in the Muslim world also desire to implement shari'ah and khilafah in the proper sense. However the west sees this system as a threat because it would undermine the political and economic power of the west. The system itself is more just, it would undermine the injustices and corruption both in the west and in the puppet regimes serving the west in muslim countries now, the wealth would be distributed amongst Muslim nations which are many, the population of Muslims, the land and resources vast, so unity under a khilafah is something the west does not want. The western system is already crumbling socially, morally and economically. It thrives through the military industrial complex. Conflict is profitable and that's how the west is sustaining itself. What wealth? 17 trillion dollars of debt is wealth and prosperity? Can you enumerate that wealth?

The west has already in the past tried a divide and conquer tactic. All the arab nationalist flags are designed by the British. The red, green, black, white flag designs. Nationalism is against Islam for instance.

Incidents that undermine woman's rights have to do with village idiots following their tribal customs rather than Islam. Morons throwing acid on women's faces, forced marriages, rapes, tribal killings all that non-sense. Islam would put a stop to these injustices. However western interests dictate civil strife. That is why the US is always trying to have proxy agents in the muslim world, funding oppositions, etc... not because it cares for any each side but rather wants to prevent Muslim unity and the rule under Islam rather than secular liberal dictatorial garbage.

Even the concept of trade and economics under Islam is a threat to the west. Without credit, debt or interest which is supremely more just, realistically manageable with proper flow of wealth.

The concept of zakat even is about justice. Unlike the taxation systems of the west some which go up to 50% in some European nations. yet despite the high taxes, the taxes seem to always keep going up and up and up and the money magically is never enough. It's quite clear what's happening.

The irony is some concepts that the west employs are in fact ISLAMIC concepts not western concepts. For example the concept of wellfare was started by the second Muslim caliphate Umar ibn Al-Khattab (ra). Books give credit to him for this. Simple things that you take for granted in the west are in fact Islamic values. Even the concept of innocent until proven guilty was taken from Muslim jurists and qur'anic principles.

The level of justice that Islam teaches is that one stands up for the truth even if it is against ones own self.

Today the west employs treachery, deception and lies for one's own selfishness. It teaches that people are guilty by suspicion without evidence. Guilty until proven innoscent. The list goes on and it's getting worse.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: avxo on August 12, 2013, 04:41:11 PM
Excellent I'm glad you brought these up.

Oh... goody, let's play!


Absolute equality is neither just or fair. Why? There's a few factors to consider.

That depends on what you define as "equality" doesn't, it?


Is a man or a woman capable of physically being stronger than the one or the other? Is a man able to give birth or carry a child in the womb or deliver a baby?

What does that have to do with equality. Also, to keep it body-building related  ;D
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/e2/Juniorposter.jpg/220px-Juniorposter.jpg)


What the west deems as 'equality' is in the absolute. Such as in the US the divorce laws of 50:50 splits unless a prior writing is written out.

You are slightly confused about US divorce laws – but that's hardly surprising; you seem to be slightly confused about a great many things. But I digress... There's no 50:50 split mandated anywhere, and numerous factors are taken into consideration, although the system is biased to favor women.


Furthermore Islam defends the dignity and value of women, protects women while the west exposes them to vulnerability and exploitation.

It does, does it? It defends their dignity and value by allowing men to marry more than one woman (4:3) and by treating them as object of desire, to bribe men with (2:25)?


Lets now take a look at your claims one by one and see what's actually happening.

Yes. Let's!

First of all, a will and inheritance is mandatory in Islam, unlike in the west where people are often left out of any kind of inheritance and the government or corporations or certain organizations can posess property if no will is left behind. In Islam it's set in stone so that no one is ever left out of what they inherit.

So you're free to mandatorily provide an inheritance? Sucks that your things aren't yours to do with as you please...

Also, it's not surprising that you're again slightly confused about inheritance laws "in the West" (whatever that means - as if all Western countries have a uniform system in regards to inheritance). Tell me, which corporations possess property that hasn't been disposed of in a will?


The way wealth is divided is with wisdom amongst the younger/elderly and the two genders.

Also divided by following the instruction that males inherit twice as much as females (4:11). Don't forget that. We wouldn't want to be unfair now, would we?


Thus God who created us takes into account what is just towards men and women as to not overburden one or the other while protecting the family which is the foundation of society.

Wait... you just got done telling us that men must provide for women. How is that not overburdening? Why can't women provide for themselves?


As I already mentioned, the idea of western 'equality'. Where is the justice in a man working his ass off his whole life, and some whore marries him for his money, gets children, divorces him and gets 50:50 while she didn't lift a finger in her life. This is injustice towards the man.

As I already mentioned, you have no idea what you're talking about. There's no "50-50" split mandated anywhere in the law. You're taking a very complex and diverse set of laws from multiple jurisdictions and distilling them down to what is, demonstrably, a lie.


When a woman is married she is given a gift which is solely her own that can be anything or any amount and the purpose of it is to protect the women or it can be symbolic. The man cannot take it back.

Great, and?


A woman can divorce and there is no blame on her if she decides to, however Islam discourages divorce, but allows it. It discourages it as the first step is counselling and trying to determine what a problem is and try to hold the family together.

Sure, she just can't have sex for three months after getting a divorce and must provide information on her menses to her ex during that time (2:228).


I'll start again with the 'absolute equality'. The oppression of women in the west led to extreme feminism which tried to make women absolute equals to men again. So if a "man can do it" "I can do it". So that includes shoveling roads, driving trucks, looking like a male bodybuilder on stage jacked with male hormones, anything goes. The reality however is, still like any society the burden of a woman bearing children, taking care of family and children still exists. So in reality it is the west that oppresses women by overburden responsibilites upon a woman.

Why shouldn't women shovel their driveways or drive trucks? They're not delicate little flowers. They're people, and most are a lot tougher than you give them credit for.

In Islam a woman does not have to work as the responsibility falls purely upon a man to provide for his family. However if a woman wants to work or run her own business a man cannot TOUCH her earnings what so ever. Anything she contributes towards him or the family is considered charity as it is her own property and no one can touch it.

In the West, a single woman only has to work if she wants to provide for herself; just like a single man. That's pretty fair and equal. If she's married and working or not is decision to be made by her husband. So unfree and unjust!


Can a woman do "ANY KIND" of job in Islam such as being a stripper 'if she wants to'. No but again this is where the looseness of western values falls short.

Could a woman attend University under the Taliban regime in Afghanistan? Can women drive cars in Saudi Arabia? Can women become Judges in Iran? Or would a woman wanting to do any of those things be a result of the "looseness of western values" too?


The what? Please state what you are talking about because there is no 'sexual harassment laws'. If anything the only such laws would be for punishing men who sexually harass women. The protection of women in Islam is of great importance.

Right... they protect them so well, in fact, that a woman who reported being raped in Dubai was, herself, prosecuted and convicted for being raped. Although she was eventually pardoned, after the outcry of people of "loose" morals no doubt, so was her attacker. Great importance, indeed.


What "freedom". Define "freedom".

noun. The power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint.


Freedom to go out with men, date, sex?

Sure, those are all things that an adult woman should be able to do, if she so chooses. She should have the power and the right to act, speak and think as she wants, without hindrance or restraint.


The whole point of a wali as you mention is a gaurdian. Someone to protect the woman when they can be exploited by asshole men just as is evident on most bodybuilding boards where guys post pix of girls they banged in one night stands.

You don't think much of women, do you? You think they're incapable of making good decisions or taking care of themselves; you just seem them as pretty little flowers, powerless against the big bad men who're out to pluck them from the field. And you fancy yourself the big, strong man to care for and protect them...


Tell me please that you wouldn't be concerned for your own daughter?

Sure I would, and while she was a still a child I would care for and protect her to the best of my ability. But once she was an adult, I would trust her to take the life lessons that I had taught her and apply them wisely and make her own decisions. I wouldn't appoint myself her guardian or dictate to her how she is to live her life.


Yes in western society it is quit ethe norm for children to tell their parents F off, be disrespectful and do whatever the hell they want as society definetely encourages this and many other 'freedoms'. The point of the parents is to raise their children with etiquette, values, respect, a future. The point of the father protecting his daughter is just that.

Teenagers are rebellious in every society and under every system. Some are disrespectful - some extremely so. But it's hardly the "norm" for children to tell their parents to fuck off.

I do have one question: you do realize that most of us here live in Western societies and know what's actually happening in those societies, right? It seems kind of silly to lie to us about it. It's not like we'll take your word over the evidence we observe every day with our own eyes.


If she wants to marry someone and there is no fault with the man and he is sound, but the father objects and the woman still wants to marry the wali can be overruled by a judge. The whole point is to ensure the safety and well being of a woman.

Why don't you trust the woman to ensure her own safety and well-being, but require a wali and, sometimes, even a Judge? Because you don't have respect for women, that's why.


So as you can see everything comes down to protection of women, protection of family and justice. So it's not lack of rights but in fact giving proper rights and not the so called 'freedoms' that the loose western values are slowly eroded by.

Yes. Which is why in Dubai women who're raped are protected by being convicted...


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on August 12, 2013, 04:50:23 PM
I'm not wasting my time reading your crap axvo you're ignorant of anything Islam teaches and even when you're explained you go about in circles. At least psychopath has some knowledge and understanding. You're just wasting your time blabbering.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: avxo on August 12, 2013, 04:55:08 PM
I'm not wasting my time reading your crap axvo. You're just wasting your time blabbering.

You aren't because you can't. Because I systematically pick what you write apart, and proceed to demolish every point you make. Stick your head in the sand. Lie to yourself about why you're doing it if you must. But don't think that what you're doing isn't obvious to everyone here.

Pathetic...


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on August 12, 2013, 05:01:36 PM
lol silly atheist, thinking he's smart and knowledgeable.

I could pick at your bs quotations but it's really a waste of my time. You already made erroneous statements as is and I'm not wasting my time bickering with an ignorant. I've done it already before and like I said even if something is explained to you, you're like a dumb wall that goes in circles. Kind of like how e-fool was, except on top of his level of stupidity and anger towards Islam and Muslims, he would take it a step further to actually call for the genocide of Muslims.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: avxo on August 12, 2013, 05:07:29 PM
I could pick at your bs quotations but it's really a waste of time.

Sure you could...

You already made erroneous statements as is and I'm not wasting my time.

Should be easy to point them out, yet you don't.


I've done it already before and like I said even if something is explained to you, you're like a dumb wall that goes in circles.

A wall that goes in circles? Huh?


Kind of like how e-fool was, except he would actually call for the genocide of Muslims.

I don't know about anyone else, but you won't find me calling for the initiation of violence on anyone. I'm against the initiation of violence, period.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Man of Steel on August 13, 2013, 09:38:56 AM
I don't know about anyone else, but you won't find me calling for the initiation of violence on anyone. I'm against the initiation of violence, period.

“It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had the right to choose: his own. He uses force to seize a value; I use it only to destroy destruction. A holdup man seeks to gain wealth by killing me; I do not grow richer by killing a holdup man. I seek no values by means of evil, nor do I surrender my values to evil."


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on August 13, 2013, 12:47:49 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q77/s720x720/999586_489313587820002_1265152679_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: avxo on August 13, 2013, 01:24:35 PM
“It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had the right to choose: his own. He uses force to seize a value; I use it only to destroy destruction. A holdup man seeks to gain wealth by killing me; I do not grow richer by killing a holdup man. I seek no values by means of evil, nor do I surrender my values to evil."

That's absolutely right.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: avxo on August 13, 2013, 01:25:18 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/q77/s720x720/999586_489313587820002_1265152679_n.jpg)

Yes... *Capitalism* is the problem... ::)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on August 13, 2013, 04:51:07 PM
You miss the whole point as always.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: avxo on August 13, 2013, 04:57:34 PM
You miss the whole point as always.

It says the real enemy is Capitalism, does it not? Forget, for the sake of argument, the fact that the U.K. isn't a capitalist society. What does an socio-economic system have to do with this?

I agree that valuing women solely on looks is stupid - judging any book by its cover is. But people do stupid things all the time, whether they live in the West or the East, the North or the South.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on August 13, 2013, 04:59:21 PM
The point of it is how in western capitalist nations (no need to play semantics on socialism in the UK western countries do work on the basis of capitalism), endorse and profit from nudity of women and the fashion industry, etc... while so called trying to talk about 'protecting women' when in fact capitalism exploits women and the west exploits women. That's all it's trying to say.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: avxo on August 13, 2013, 05:33:02 PM
The point of it is how in western capitalist nations (no need to play semantics on socialism in the UK western countries do work on the basis of capitalism), endorse and profit from nudity of women and the fashion industry, etc... while so called trying to talk about 'protecting women' when in fact capitalism exploits women and the west exploits women. That's all it's trying to say.

Do you believe that a woman should not be able to choose to work in the fashion industry as a model? Assuming that is her free choice (and we can debate whether, in this environment, that choice is free) how is she being exploited?

I understand you have moral objections in connection with nudity, but you cannot make a rational argument that your morals can bind other people.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on August 13, 2013, 09:36:02 PM
Your definition of freedom is anyone should do whatever they want under YOUR moral standard. In other words if I say something like should a murderer be allowed to kill it's his own free choice, you would start arguing about how this is wrong, impacts society, we have limits and punishments.

Well, under our moral standards we do not allow or condone such action. As much as you may disagree with that notion.

There is no such thing as unlimited freedom even in the west even though the west has become very loose.

Just as the laws and standards of western society are BINDING upon people, likewise we have standards that are binding upon Muslims and society at large for the protection of society rather than corruption of society.

As far as a woman who chooses to be a fashion model, porn star, cover magazine girl or movie star in nude scenes for all to see in theaters, how is she not exploited? Some women like to exploit men with their 'power' of nudity over them as well. It goes both ways. But the whole point is, muslim women or women who are of modest standards but 'foreign' to western standards are always seen as 'oppressed' while in fact we can argue the same for western women as in fact being oppresed.

"Cover girl" make up, hardly covering, more like covering with kilos of makeup to be noticed and accepted. While women that cover themselves want to be respected for their intellect not their lips, ass and breasts. So the point of that pic is the arguments that westerners throw out there at Muslim women, can far more easily be applied to western women.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: avxo on August 14, 2013, 04:43:23 AM
Your definition of freedom is anyone should do whatever they want under YOUR moral standard. In other words if I say something like should a murderer be allowed to kill it's his own free choice, you would start arguing about how this is wrong, impacts society, we have limits and punishments.

No it's not and you know it. But if you need to blatantly lie about my position to attack it, well. that says something about you and the tractability of your position.

Of course I would argue that murdering is wrong and we should regulate it. The initiation of violence is wrong and your freedom to act ends where my freedom begins. Which means your freedom to swing a knife doesn't mean you can swing it into my chest.


Well, under our moral standards we do not allow or condone such action. As much as you may disagree with that notion.

What I disagree with is the notion that your moral standards bind me and others. As long as my actions don't infringe on your rights (which is why, for example, your "murder" example above is not only ridiculous but a blatant lie) your morals mean shit.


There is no such thing as unlimited freedom even in the west even though the west has become very loose.

Of course not - your freedom doesn't mean you can punch me in the nose. It does, however, mean that I can't tell you not to oil yourself up and pose on stage in a tiny thing, or what you choose to do behind closed doors with other consenting adults, or what to believe, etc.


Just as the laws and standards of western society are BINDING upon people, likewise we have standards that are binding upon Muslims and society at large for the protection of society rather than corruption of society.

Agreed. If you choose to live in a particular society you are bound by its laws. However that doesn't make the laws in question moral and a society that infringes on the freedom of its citizens won't last long. You see, people don't like to be under a yoke.


As far as a woman who chooses to be a fashion model, porn star, cover magazine girl or movie star in nude scenes for all to see in theaters, how is she not exploited?

Words have meaning Ahmed. Case in point:

ex•ploi•ta•tion: (noun) Utilization of another person or group against their will for selfish purposes.

How is a woman who freely and without external pressure decides to act in such films being exploited? Please note, that this doesn't preclude the possibility that some woman is exploited but that is a different topic.


Some women like to exploit men with their 'power' of nudity over them as well.

I agree, except I go further; you see, exploiters can in all shapes and sizes and use all sorts of tricks to exploit others. Nudity is hardly the only tool. Which is why it doesn't make sense to condemn nudity (or, indeed, the tool) but the act if exploiting someone else.


But the whole point is, muslim women or women who are of modest standards but 'foreign' to western standards are always seen as 'oppressed' while in fact we can argue the same for western women as in fact being oppresed.

I don't argue that modest women are oppressed. I argue that taking choice away is oppressive.


"Cover girl" make up, hardly covering, more like covering with kilos of makeup to be noticed and accepted. While women that cover themselves want to be respected for their intellect not their lips, ass and breasts. So the point of that pic is the arguments that westerners throw out there at Muslim women, can far more easily be applied to western women.

If a woman is so shallow that she wants to be respected only for her breasts or her hips; then more power to her; it's her choice. She'll attract the sort of men she deserves. There's a reason why terms like "bimbo" and "slut" were coined.

But your suggestion that women should cover up to get respect is an insult to both men and women. There are people who don't think with their genitals Ahmed, and guys don't lose all control if a woman wears form-fitting clothes.

No doubt, there's clothing that is appropriate for the situation and clothing that isn't.

The point is that it's not up to you to tell the woman what she can and cannot wear.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Man of Steel on August 14, 2013, 05:49:32 AM
But your suggestion that women should cover up to get respect is an insult to both men and women. There are people who don't think with their genitals Ahmed, and guys don't lose all control if a woman wears form-fitting clothes.

No doubt, there's clothing that is appropriate for the situation and clothing that isn't.

The point is that it's not up to you to tell the woman what she can and cannot wear.

I agree with this.  

From what I’ve gathered via reading and conversation, Islam often portrays men as remaining in some form of a state of lust and desirous of sex and that Muslim women simply don't have similar desires (at least in terms of frequency of thoughts of lust).  Therefore, Muslim women need to cover up so that that Muslim men don’t turn into hulking, howling sex werewolves when a calf is shown.  

Seems to me that the men of Islam just need to practice a bit more self-control.   For example, I just spoke with an attractive woman in a tight fitting shirt and I somehow managed to keep my penis from becoming engorged with blood and bursting forth from behind my zipper.

It’s always struck me as odd that a divine reward for Muslim men entering Allah’s paradise is based upon an earthly pleasure…just assumed the infinite would transcend the finite a bit more.   Although a Muslim man’s participation in sex with multiple female partners in Allah’s paradise won’t be “smelly and icky” (as ahmed put it) like it is in the world today.  The orgy of flesh will become purified and righteous in paradise.  

I’m just not getting it.

Yes one of the many promises to men is that they will have beautiful wives. That their worldly wives will be made queens of heaven and that they may get new wives while those who had no wives will certainly be given wives as described. What is wrong with a woman that is attractive, beautiful, chaste, pure? The men who get new wives their wives of this world will be queens and above those women that they may get in heaven.

On the other hand no women are not promised 'many men' but if they did not have a husband they will be given a pious husband.

There is a difference between men and women. We are equal in faith and piety, but not equal. This is known by atheists and all believers alike.

Men are more likely enticed and desiring of women than woman are of men. How often do you hear of women boasting and trolling lets say even on an internet forum about men? And how often do you hear about guys ranting about and obsessing over different women? This forum is a fine example.

What awaits us in paradise will be equitable to what we deserve and what God has prepared for us. It is still nothing like this world.

For example yes there will be sex in heaven, but it will not be smelly, it will not be icky, it will be different.

Absolute equity is a failed concept. Not everyone or everything is equal this is a fact. Communism failed my friend as it is against human nature and how God created us.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on August 14, 2013, 08:00:48 AM
The next life is like this life but without the filth of this world or suffering of this world.

What is wrong with that? Like I said before, do you want to be some floating cloud playing tamburines and harp with wings like some christian drawings of baby angel illustrations?

You keep focusing on intimacy in heaven, wow and? Is that all you think of?

Being in the presence of God, being in the presence of the prophets and messengers of God, being in the presence of other pious people, this is also another of millions of other things of heaven.

Seems like many islamophobe christian missionaries who try to showcase muslims as sex hungry obsessed people. Have you read the bible? Please... we've been over this.



Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: avxo on August 14, 2013, 09:43:55 AM
The next life is like this life but without the filth of this world or suffering of this world.

What is wrong with that?

Beyond being a pipe dream? Plenty, but I only have one question: Why is a "next life" necessary? Why can't this life be without "filth" and "suffering"?

Remember, saying "because that's how it is!" isn't an answer.


Title: Re: Kindness to women and our wives in Islam. Men's responsibilities.
Post by: Gonuclear on September 06, 2013, 08:37:44 PM
ahmed told me copying and pasting isn't appropriate support.  support must be derived from your own research.


Really?  90% of what Ahmed posts is copy/paste.   Of course he interjects his own false statements, from time to time.


Islam treats women like dirt.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Griffith on September 21, 2013, 12:48:04 AM
I agree with this.  

From what I’ve gathered via reading and conversation, Islam often portrays men as remaining in some form of a state of lust and desirous of sex and that Muslim women simply don't have similar desires (at least in terms of frequency of thoughts of lust).  Therefore, Muslim women need to cover up so that that Muslim men don’t turn into hulking, howling sex werewolves when a calf is shown.  

Seems to me that the men of Islam just need to practice a bit more self-control.   For example, I just spoke with an attractive woman in a tight fitting shirt and I somehow managed to keep my penis from becoming engorged with blood and bursting forth from behind my zipper.

It’s always struck me as odd that a divine reward for Muslim men entering Allah’s paradise is based upon an earthly pleasure…just assumed the infinite would transcend the finite a bit more.   Although a Muslim man’s participation in sex with multiple female partners in Allah’s paradise won’t be “smelly and icky” (as ahmed put it) like it is in the world today.  The orgy of flesh will become purified and righteous in paradise.  

I’m just not getting it.


Good post!

I agree 100%


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: Man of Steel on September 21, 2013, 06:11:04 PM

Really?  90% of what Ahmed posts is copy/paste.   Of course he interjects his own false statements, from time to time.


Islam treats women like dirt.

The flipside is when you provide your own research it's invalid because it's unsupported and not from a reputable theologian LOL. 

Provide commentary from a reputable theologian and then you're still wrong because it was from the wrong "reputable theologian" LOL. 

In short, it matters not what you research, what books you read, what lectures you attend, what courses you take, etc.....LOL, it's all just wrong.

What's the point?


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on October 07, 2013, 12:00:25 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1392021_513091775442183_1420185364_n.jpg)


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on October 07, 2013, 12:01:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Jvh3BNsSkM


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: avxo on October 07, 2013, 12:33:50 PM
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/1392021_513091775442183_1420185364_n.jpg)

That's the justification that people like Ahmed provide, a justification the flows directly from the Qur'an.

But let's take a step back:

It's not offensive if a woman wishes to cover up on her own accord (even if her reasons are religious). It's her body and she can choose to expose or cover up as much of it as she wants.

What is offensive is that a religion asserts that women must be covered because their mere appearance is so intensely titillating and scandalous that it turns pious men to horny frat brothers.

I realize that this is a subtle point that is likely to get lost on people like Ahmed, but there it is nonetheless. As plain and obvious as a nose on a face.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: a_ahmed on October 07, 2013, 02:28:25 PM
go take a tour of your non-muslim brethren's respect for women's rights in the opinions and gossip section. Yes women who chose to not cover themselves are being respected right there and then by non-muslims clearly.


Title: Re: Islam and womens rights
Post by: avxo on October 07, 2013, 02:45:27 PM
go take a tour of your non-muslim brethren's respect for women's rights in the opinions and gossip section. Yes women who chose to not cover themselves are being respected right there and then by non-muslims clearly.

Sure, guys will look at pictures of women who willingly put themselves in situations where they will be seen in an overtly sexual light and objectified. And? I don't want to tell women how they can or can't use their body, because I'm not qualified to and, more importantly, because I believe in freedom and the quintessence of freedom is to be able to use your own body in the way you see fit.

But even if all guys are horndogs who can't control themselves, why must women do anything about that? Why shouldn't men do something since they're the ones with the "problem"?

Never mind... it was a rhetorical question. Besides, we all know the answer anyways.