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Title: Triple Crown... Cabrera
Post by: arce1988 on October 04, 2012, 03:03:28 PM
this will be changed, moved, etc.,   but props to Cabrera for the feat.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on October 04, 2012, 03:09:18 PM
Yeah.












Who's Cabrera?


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: arce1988 on October 04, 2012, 03:16:41 PM
Josť Miguel Cabrera Torres


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: Nails on October 04, 2012, 03:19:52 PM
Yes the JUICE is good in this one, i congratulate him on keeping a Clean Piss through out the year

Regardless its a great list to be on

Triple Crown winners



Year Lg    Player    Team/(BA, HR, RBI)
2012 AL    Miguel Cabrera    DET .330, 44 HR, 139 RBI
1967 AL    Carl Yastrzemski    BOS .326, 44 HR, 121 RBI
1966 AL    Frank Robinson    BAL .316, 49 HR, 122 RBI
1956 AL    Mickey Mantle    NYY .353, 52 HR, 130 RBI
1947 AL    Ted Williams    BOS .343, 32 HR, 114 RBI
1942 AL    Ted Williams    BOS .356, 36 HR, 137 RBI
1937 NL    Joe Medwick    STL .374, 31 HR, 154 RBI
1934 AL    Lou Gehrig    NYY .363, 49 HR, 165 RBI
1933 AL    Jimmie Foxx    PHA .356, 48 HR, 163 RBI
1933 NL    Chuck Klein    PHI .368, 28 HR, 120 RBI
1925 NL    Rogers Hornsby    STL .403, 39 HR, 143 RBI
1922 NL    Rogers Hornsby    STL .401, 42 HR, 152 RBI
1909 AL    Ty Cobb    DET .377, 9 HR, 107 RBI
1901 AL    Nap Lajoie    PHA .426, 14 HR, 125 RBI
1887 AA    Tip O'Neill    STL .435, 14 HR, 123 RBI
1878 NL    Paul Hines    PRO .358, 4 HR, 50 RBI

(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2012/writers/tom_verducci/09/18/mike-trout-miguel-cabrera-al-mvp/miguel-cabrera-getty2.jpg)


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: arce1988 on October 04, 2012, 03:22:29 PM
  Immortality


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: arce1988 on October 04, 2012, 03:23:48 PM
  For the record, I feel that he HAS used PED.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: Nails on October 04, 2012, 03:24:42 PM
You ever been to Cooperstown? Fucking mayberry is no fucking New York ill tell you that

its cool, but i liked the NFL hall of fame alot more

the babe ruth locker and section is awesome thou


  Immortality


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: arce1988 on October 04, 2012, 03:27:19 PM
  Yes. I agree.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: Nails on October 04, 2012, 03:29:06 PM

you are a man of few words

straight to the point





  Yes. I agree.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: dr.chimps on October 04, 2012, 03:30:25 PM
Very cool. Can't understand a word he says, but very cool.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on October 04, 2012, 04:57:53 PM
Pretty awesome. And shame on ESPN for not really giving this thing the media attention it deserved. No run up or anything.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: The Ugly on October 04, 2012, 05:00:46 PM
Quite a feat. I was hoping someone would do this in my lifetime.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: Powerlift66 on October 05, 2012, 02:29:13 AM
Yes the JUICE is good in this one, i congratulate him on keeping a Clean Piss through out the year

Regardless its a great list to be on

Triple Crown winners (Fixed)



Year Lg    Player    Team/(BA, HR, RBI)
2012 AL    Miguel Cabrera    DET .330, 44 HR, 139 RBI
1967 AL    Carl Yastrzemski    BOS .326, 44 HR, 121 RBI
1966 AL    Frank Robinson    BAL .316, 49 HR, 122 RBI
1956 AL    Mickey Mantle    NYY .353, 52 HR, 130 RBI
1947 AL    Ted Williams    BOS .343, 32 HR, 114 RBI
1942 AL    Ted Williams    BOS .356, 36 HR, 137 RBI
1937 NL    Joe Medwick    STL .374, 31 HR, 154 RBI
1934 AL    Lou Gehrig    NYY .363, 49 HR, 165 RBI
1933 AL    Jimmie Foxx    PHA .356, 48 HR, 163 RBI
1933 NL    Chuck Klein    PHI .368, 28 HR, 120 RBI
1925 NL    Rogers Hornsby    STL .403, 39 HR, 143 RBI
1922 NL    Rogers Hornsby    STL .401, 42 HR, 152 RBI
1909 AL    Ty Cobb    DET .377, 9 HR, 107 RBI
1901 AL    Nap Lajoie    PHA .426, 14 HR, 125 RBI
1887 AA    Tip O'Neill    STL .435, 14 HR, 123 RBI
1878 NL    Paul Hines    PRO .358, 4 HR, 50 RBI

(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2012/writers/tom_verducci/09/18/mike-trout-miguel-cabrera-al-mvp/miguel-cabrera-getty2.jpg)

Fixed


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: Grape Ape on October 05, 2012, 02:53:34 AM
Amazing accomplishment.  Even more amazing is that Mike Trout is actually having a better season and deserves the MVP over Cabrerra.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: Ronnie Rep on October 05, 2012, 03:53:29 AM
Fucking Marlins traded Miggy years ago to Detroit! Look at them now!


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: bigmikecox on October 05, 2012, 04:27:36 AM
Yes the JUICE is good in this one, i congratulate him on keeping a Clean Piss through out the year

Regardless its a great list to be on

Triple Crown winners



Year Lg    Player    Team/(BA, HR, RBI)
2012 AL    Miguel Cabrera    DET .330, 44 HR, 139 RBI
1967 AL    Carl Yastrzemski    BOS .326, 44 HR, 121 RBI
1966 AL    Frank Robinson    BAL .316, 49 HR, 122 RBI
1956 AL    Mickey Mantle    NYY .353, 52 HR, 130 RBI
1947 AL    Ted Williams    BOS .343, 32 HR, 114 RBI
1942 AL    Ted Williams    BOS .356, 36 HR, 137 RBI
1937 NL    Joe Medwick    STL .374, 31 HR, 154 RBI
1934 AL    Lou Gehrig    NYY .363, 49 HR, 165 RBI
1933 AL    Jimmie Foxx    PHA .356, 48 HR, 163 RBI
1933 NL    Chuck Klein    PHI .368, 28 HR, 120 RBI
1925 NL    Rogers Hornsby    STL .403, 39 HR, 143 RBI
1922 NL    Rogers Hornsby    STL .401, 42 HR, 152 RBI
1909 AL    Ty Cobb    DET .377, 9 HR, 107 RBI
1901 AL    Nap Lajoie    PHA .426, 14 HR, 125 RBI
1887 AA    Tip O'Neill    STL .435, 14 HR, 123 RBI
1878 NL    Paul Hines    PRO .358, 4 HR, 50 RBI

(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2012/writers/tom_verducci/09/18/mike-trout-miguel-cabrera-al-mvp/miguel-cabrera-getty2.jpg)

He did something Tny Gynn, Donnie Baseball, Boggs, Bonds or Henderson couldnt. I hate Detroit, but to be alive to see this, very impressive


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: snx on October 05, 2012, 05:39:56 AM
Amazing accomplishment.  Even more amazing is that Mike Trout is actually having a better season and deserves the MVP over Cabrerra.

I agree. He's more valuable to any team in baseball than Cabrera.

But, let's not forget: sabermetrics don't auto-calculate the MVP. He might crush Cabrera on WAR, but he didn't put his team into the post-season like Cabrera did. The 28 writers who vote for the MVP loves that shit. It's very unlikely to win the MVP without making the playoffs. Not saying I agree with that 100%, but precedent is precedent. But boy, the Angels sure were close this year. Had they made it, it probably would have gone to Trout.

The Triple Crown isn't a guarantee of a MVP. Just ask Teddy Ballgame (who won the Crown twice, and got beat for the MVP award both times). Or Gehrig.

It's funny - early sabermetrics under-valued base running and defense. Now we see a more balanced approach. And that's where Cabrera gets pinched (13 errors to 4 errors; 120 runs for Trout; almost 50 stolen bases). That said, Trout sure did strike out a lot....the worst sin in baseball as a hitter.

I think it goes to Cabrera because his team made the playoffs. I don't agree - I would give it to Trout. But I think that's how the voting will go. If Detroit makes the World Series, then it's a lock for Cabrera.



Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: flipper5470 on October 05, 2012, 05:49:36 AM
I would give the MVP to Cabrera...he closed the season stronger and was a superior hitter in late inning AB's...particuarly with RISP.  Plus...it's the Triple Crown.  It's batting .400 or winning 30 games....but it's still impressive.   Cabrera has lead the league in BA twice as a RH hitter with zero speed.   He's a historically significant talent.  And in saying that I don't mean to sound dimissive of Trout...he's a tremendously talented player...he hs the pure ability to be his generation's GOAT, I just don't think he gets the big award this year.

And FWIW...I see no evidence that he's used PED's...ever.  I don't see any of the bizaare jumps in performance associated with using PEDS. 


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: Grape Ape on October 05, 2012, 06:36:44 AM
I agree. He's more valuable to any team in baseball than Cabrera.

But, let's not forget: sabermetrics don't auto-calculate the MVP. He might crush Cabrera on WAR, but he didn't put his team into the post-season like Cabrera did. The 28 writers who vote for the MVP loves that shit. It's very unlikely to win the MVP without making the playoffs. Not saying I agree with that 100%, but precedent is precedent. But boy, the Angels sure were close this year. Had they made it, it probably would have gone to Trout.

The Triple Crown isn't a guarantee of a MVP. Just ask Teddy Ballgame (who won the Crown twice, and got beat for the MVP award both times). Or Gehrig.

It's funny - early sabermetrics under-valued base running and defense. Now we see a more balanced approach. And that's where Cabrera gets pinched (13 errors to 4 errors; 120 runs for Trout; almost 50 stolen bases). That said, Trout sure did strike out a lot....the worst sin in baseball as a hitter.

I think it goes to Cabrera because his team made the playoffs. I don't agree - I would give it to Trout. But I think that's how the voting will go. If Detroit makes the World Series, then it's a lock for Cabrera.



In full agreement that the writers will vote in Cabrerra, and the reasons behind it.  I still think it's not right.

I also appreciate your insights into the advanced metrics side, but I'm definitely not going with this solely based on WAR.  I have a problem with the defensive side of that equation, most notably because the creators of the stat themselves have admitted it takes a sample of 3 years to ensure accuracy.  It can be simpler than that - Trout had a stellar offensive year, leading Cabrerra in most advanced metrics, but even simpler ones like OBP, played insane defensive at the most valuable outfield position while Miguel was a butcher at third, and led the league in stolen bases with an incredible success rate.

My problem is the triple crown has too much emphasis on stats that don't translate to real value, in terms of awarding the MVP.    It's a nice, rare accomplishment, but OBP, wOBA, wRC+ etc give better context.  Also, if Josh Hamiltion hit two HRs on the last day, would people still want Cabrerra to win?  Also - Anaheim won more games than Detroit, so Cabrerra gets rewarded just because he played in the weakest division.

But, I will disagree with the strikeout being baseball's biggest sin - a double play is far worse.  Strikeouts would also have a more positive effect since, in theory, the batter would see more pitchers than a first pitch pop up, etc.....



Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: snx on October 05, 2012, 06:47:46 AM
In full agreement that the writers will vote in Cabrerra, and the reasons behind it.  I still think it's not right.

I also appreciate your insights into the advanced metrics side, but I'm definitely not going with this solely based on WAR.  I have a problem with the defensive side of that equation, most notably because the creators of the stat themselves have admitted it takes a sample of 3 years to ensure accuracy.  It can be simpler than that - Trout had a stellar offensive year, leading Cabrerra in most advanced metrics, but even simpler ones like OBP, played insane defensive at the most valuable outfield position while Miguel was a butcher at third, and led the league in stolen bases with an incredible success rate.

My problem is the triple crown has too much emphasis on stats that don't translate to real value, in terms of awarding the MVP.    It's a nice, rare accomplishment, but OBP, wOBA, wRC+ etc give better context.  Also, if Josh Hamiltion hit two HRs on the last day, would people still want Cabrerra to win?  Also - Anaheim won more games than Detroit, so Cabrerra gets rewarded just because he played in the weakest division.

But, I will disagree with the strikeout being baseball's biggest sin - a double play is far worse.  Strikeouts would also have a more positive effect since, in theory, the batter would see more pitchers than a first pitch pop up, etc.....



I agree. BA is over-rated. And RBI's are grossly over-rated. The triple crown harkens back to a simpler time in statistical measures. It's still kind of neat to see it happen...one of the most rare feats in baseball, even if the stats aren't as meaningful. It was nice to see it happen in my lifetime. I would not have picked Cabrera to do it. I guess I would have picked Frank Thomas, or Bonds, or Pujols to have done it.

So you think a double play is worse? I would agree the outcome of the double play is worse than the outcome of the strikeout. But the process of trying to put a ball in play is more advantageous, statistically speaking, than the process of striking out. The process of putting a ball in play can lead to outcomes that produce runs, perhaps if errors are made, or if fast baserunners leg out an infield hit. The process of striking out produces a zero statistical probability of scoring a run, unless the runner advances on a past ball, for example. The outcome of getting into a double play, though, sucks worse.

So, I think we agree here. The outcome of the double play is far more injurious than a strikeout. But the actual process of putting a ball in play is more advantageous than not putting a ball in play at all, if we look at potential outcomes. One is obviously a double play, but another could be a run producing outcome.

That's why I feel a strikeout is the biggest sin. It gives the team a near zero probability of scoring a run. But I think it's kind of stupid on my part to argue with you on this...let's agree that both are pretty crappy!


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on October 05, 2012, 07:39:38 AM
I would give the MVP to Cabrera...he closed the season stronger and was a superior hitter in late inning AB's...particuarly with RISP.  Plus...it's the Triple Crown.  It's batting .400 or winning 30 games....but it's still impressive.   Cabrera has lead the league in BA twice as a RH hitter with zero speed.   He's a historically significant talent.  And in saying that I don't mean to sound dimissive of Trout...he's a tremendously talented player...he hs the pure ability to be his generation's GOAT, I just don't think he gets the big award this year.

And FWIW...I see no evidence that he's used PED's...ever.  I don't see any of the bizaare jumps in performance associated with using PEDS. 

I'd also give it to Cabrera because the guy put up the numbers in 161 games. Trout played in 139 games I believe. Some may say that putting up huge numbers in less game is more impressive but those people are wrong. Baseball is a fcking grind. And having over 20 days resting instead of in the mix is huge.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: Grape Ape on October 05, 2012, 07:47:27 AM
I'd also give it to Cabrera because the guy put up the numbers in 161 games. Trout played in 139 games I believe. Some may say that putting up huge numbers in less game is more impressive but those people are wrong. Baseball is a fcking grind. And having over 20 days resting instead of in the mix is huge.

I see the point in terms of % based stats, but in terms of absolute numbers, like stolen bases, less games absolutely makes the it more impressive.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: Grape Ape on October 05, 2012, 07:54:32 AM
I agree. BA is over-rated. And RBI's are grossly over-rated. The triple crown harkens back to a simpler time in statistical measures. It's still kind of neat to see it happen...one of the most rare feats in baseball, even if the stats aren't as meaningful. It was nice to see it happen in my lifetime. I would not have picked Cabrera to do it. I guess I would have picked Frank Thomas, or Bonds, or Pujols to have done it.

So you think a double play is worse? I would agree the outcome of the double play is worse than the outcome of the strikeout. But the process of trying to put a ball in play is more advantageous, statistically speaking, than the process of striking out. The process of putting a ball in play can lead to outcomes that produce runs, perhaps if errors are made, or if fast baserunners leg out an infield hit. The process of striking out produces a zero statistical probability of scoring a run, unless the runner advances on a past ball, for example. The outcome of getting into a double play, though, sucks worse.

So, I think we agree here. The outcome of the double play is far more injurious than a strikeout. But the actual process of putting a ball in play is more advantageous than not putting a ball in play at all, if we look at potential outcomes. One is obviously a double play, but another could be a run producing outcome.

That's why I feel a strikeout is the biggest sin. It gives the team a near zero probability of scoring a run. But I think it's kind of stupid on my part to argue with you on this...let's agree that both are pretty crappy!

We're getting into probability vs outcome, but you've got me thinking about this now.....damn..


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: UPINTHEMGUTS on October 05, 2012, 07:54:57 AM
It is so hard to bat for both average AND power on the major league level. There's a reason it's been over 45 years since the last triple crown winner. Hats off to Cabrera. Awesome accomplishment for one hell of a ball player.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: Grape Ape on October 05, 2012, 07:58:17 AM
It is so hard to bat for both average AND power on the major league level. There's a reason it's been over 45 years since the last triple crown winner. Hats off to Cabrera. Awesome accomplishment for one hell of a ball player.

No argument here.  I just think Trout deserves the MVP over him.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: snx on October 05, 2012, 07:58:21 AM
I'd also give it to Cabrera because the guy put up the numbers in 161 games. Trout played in 139 games I believe. Some may say that putting up huge numbers in less game is more impressive but those people are wrong. Baseball is a fcking grind. And having over 20 days resting instead of in the mix is huge.

He's a rookie and got called up late. That's why he didn't play the whole season. Imagine if he'd been called to the show on opening day...potential 40/40 season, perhaps?



Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: UPINTHEMGUTS on October 05, 2012, 08:03:26 AM
No argument here.  I just think Trout deserves the MVP over him.

Nah...I disagree on the basis that Cabrera's team is in the postseason, and Trout's team isn't. Like the other guy said on the other post...Cabrera played in almost every game this season and put up those stats...just mindboggling.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: Grape Ape on October 05, 2012, 08:07:20 AM
Nah...I disagree on the basis that Cabrera's team is in the postseason, and Trout's team isn't. Like the other guy said on the other post...Cabrera played in almost every game this season and put up those stats...just mindboggling.

Yeah, but Trout's team has a better record.  Cabrerra's got better teammates in a worse division.

Trout's season is one of the best ever.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: snx on October 05, 2012, 08:11:56 AM
Here's one interesting theory I just thought of, as to why the writers will bypass Trout in favor of Cabrera.

I mean, besides the whole "post-season" drama that's over-rated (Detroit plays in a weak division relative to the Angels), and the nostalgia of Triple Crown (however irrelevant those stats might be)...

They have to give Trout the Rookie of the Year award, right? I can't think of a better rookie this year.

So, if he gets that hardware, isn't it like a consolation prize for not winning the MVP?

After all, the only other guys to win ROY and MVP are Ichiro, and Freddy Lynn. So it really doesn't happen that often, even though some rookies have put up fantastic seasons (like McGwire in 87, for example).


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: Grape Ape on October 05, 2012, 08:20:53 AM
Here's one interesting theory I just thought of, as to why the writers will bypass Trout in favor of Cabrera.

I mean, besides the whole "post-season" drama that's over-rated (Detroit plays in a weak division relative to the Angels), and the nostalgia of Triple Crown (however irrelevant those stats might be)...

They have to give Trout the Rookie of the Year award, right? I can't think of a better rookie this year.

So, if he gets that hardware, isn't it like a consolation prize for not winning the MVP?

After all, the only other guys to win ROY and MVP are Ichiro, and Freddy Lynn. So it really doesn't happen that often, even though some rookies have put up fantastic seasons (like McGwire in 87, for example).

I'm sure some of those dipshits will look at it through this lens, but at the end of the day, it shouldn't be a reason for a more deserving candidate to not get an award.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: snx on October 05, 2012, 08:30:50 AM
I'm sure some of those dipshits will look at it through this lens, but at the end of the day, it shouldn't be a reason for a more deserving candidate to not get an award.

I agree.

Look at his WAR. I know we talked earlier, but it's off-the-charts.

He has achieved the highest single season WAR of any player in the last 25 years, if you don't count Barry Bonds and that one season Cal Ripken had in 1991 (a single season that doesn't get enough love, if you ask me).



Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: residue on October 05, 2012, 08:36:15 AM
how many sandows does he have?


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: funk51 on October 05, 2012, 12:05:19 PM
Yes the JUICE is good in this one, i congratulate him on keeping a Clean Piss through out the year

Regardless its a great list to be on

Triple Crown winners



Year Lg    Player    Team/(BA, HR, RBI)
2012 AL    Miguel Cabrera    DET .330, 44 HR, 139 RBI
1967 AL    Carl Yastrzemski    BOS .326, 44 HR, 121 RBI
1966 AL    Frank Robinson    BAL .316, 49 HR, 122 RBI
1956 AL    Mickey Mantle    NYY .353, 52 HR, 130 RBI
1947 AL    Ted Williams    BOS .343, 32 HR, 114 RBI
1942 AL    Ted Williams    BOS .356, 36 HR, 137 RBI
1937 NL    Joe Medwick    STL .374, 31 HR, 154 RBI
1934 AL    Lou Gehrig    NYY .363, 49 HR, 165 RBI
1933 AL    Jimmie Foxx    PHA .356, 48 HR, 163 RBI
1933 NL    Chuck Klein    PHI .368, 28 HR, 120 RBI
1925 NL    Rogers Hornsby    STL .403, 39 HR, 143 RBI
1922 NL    Rogers Hornsby    STL .401, 42 HR, 152 RBI
1909 AL    Ty Cobb    DET .377, 9 HR, 107 RBI
1901 AL    Nap Lajoie    PHA .426, 14 HR, 125 RBI
1887 AA    Tip O'Neill    STL .435, 14 HR, 123 RBI
1878 NL    Paul Hines    PRO .358, 4 HR, 50 RBI

(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2012/writers/tom_verducci/09/18/mike-trout-miguel-cabrera-al-mvp/miguel-cabrera-getty2.jpg)
interesting fact ted williams came in second in the mvp voting his two triple crown years.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: flipper5470 on October 05, 2012, 12:13:38 PM
Ben Zobrist lead the league in WAR in 2011...was Ben Zobrist the MVP?   Did anyone think Zobrist was the MVP?   Hell, the sabremetrics crowd can't even agree on a standardized defiition of the stat....I do not think it's a valid criteria for judging MVP. 


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: snx on October 05, 2012, 12:51:35 PM
Ben Zobrist lead the league in WAR in 2011...was Ben Zobrist the MVP?   Did anyone think Zobrist was the MVP?   Hell, the sabremetrics crowd can't even agree on a standardized defiition of the stat....I do not think it's a valid criteria for judging MVP. 

You don't think it should play even a part in determining who was best?


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: POB on October 05, 2012, 12:56:54 PM
It is so hard to bat for both average AND power on the major league level. There's a reason it's been over 45 years since the last triple crown winner. Hats off to Cabrera. Awesome accomplishment for one hell of a ball player.

This


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: flipper5470 on October 05, 2012, 01:07:23 PM
You don't think it should play even a part in determining who was best?

I didn't say that...I'm skeptical of any number that doesn't have a agreed upon definition.  I will admit that I'm ignorant of how much fielding stats like range factors come into play...I think those numbers are suspect because they can be influenced by the people you play alongside (Trout can cheat more in CF because he's next to Tori Hunter so his range looks larger).   I think over the course of a few years, if you use a standardized version and apply it, it's a worthwhile number in considering the relative value of a set of players.  To give the top award to a guy who played 139 games using WAR as a cornerstone of the case?  No...I can't buy that.

I would ask the WAR crowd if Justin Verlander should be the Cy Young winner this year.... I think it should go to Price, but Verlander does have a higher WAR...


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: arce1988 on October 05, 2012, 02:51:33 PM
  Melky said that he did.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on October 05, 2012, 06:08:58 PM
No argument here.  I just think Trout deserves the MVP over him.

One could argue that a new award needs to be brought forth. How often would a triple crown winner not get the MvP. Trout makes a case that maybe a new award needs to be put in place. If Trout wins the MVP, MC surely needs to win something.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: The Ugly on October 05, 2012, 06:36:44 PM
Trout had a great year for sure, Rookie of the Year, but Cabrera deserves the MVP.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on October 05, 2012, 08:02:44 PM
Trout had a great year for sure, Rookie of the Year, but Cabrera deserves the MVP.

Cabrera played a full year. MVP


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: AbrahamG on October 05, 2012, 09:08:39 PM
  For the record, I feel that he HAS used PED.

Who cares Asshole.  Your just hating cuz he's got a huge cock.


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: Grape Ape on October 06, 2012, 04:12:31 AM
Trout had a great year for sure, Rookie of the Year, but Cabrera deserves the MVP.

I think I've given plenty of reasons why he doesn't.   Can you provide some exammples as to why?


Title: Re: Triple Crown
Post by: Grape Ape on October 06, 2012, 04:19:51 AM
Ben Zobrist lead the league in WAR in 2011...was Ben Zobrist the MVP?   Did anyone think Zobrist was the MVP?   Hell, the sabremetrics crowd can't even agree on a standardized defiition of the stat....I do not think it's a valid criteria for judging MVP.  

This has been a counter that many have provided.  For some reason they skip all the legitimate explanations and just try to make this out to be a SABR vs non SABR argument.   I pointed out the deficiencies of WAR, but nobody here, especially myself, said Trout should win because of WAR.

But, It's also been demonstrated that WAR is tremendously valuable, and the best comprehensive stat for determining overall player value. There is no perfect stat, but that doesn't mean that we should use the worst ones that we can find just because they measure easily counted events.

Trout leads in almost every advanced metric and a bunch of less advanced, valuable statistics.   He also plays incredible defense while Cabrerra was a butcher in the field.   In other words, a lot of the VALUE Cabrerra brings to his team at the plate,  he gives right back in the field.  Trout also lead the league in SB and had over a 90% success rate.

Yes, Cabrerra had a great year and did something rare.    Trout just had a better one.


Polanski gets it right:

http://joeposnanski.blogspot.hk/2012/10/the-triple-trout.html


Title: Re: Triple Crown... Cabrera
Post by: snx on October 06, 2012, 09:53:02 AM
Whether or not Miggy wins the MVP this year, he only needs another 7 years at this level of output and he's a shoe-in for the Hall of Fame, which is far more important than any one particular MVP award.

He just needs 500HR's, 1700 RBIs and a .300BA and the writers will vote him in. As irrelevant as the latter two stats are. What's more, they'll give it to him because 3B is notoriously under-represented in the HOF. The writers would much more easily vote in a 3B'man than another 1B'man.



Title: Re: Triple Crown... Cabrera
Post by: arce1988 on October 06, 2012, 04:22:06 PM
  :D


  Hate? I made this thread.