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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: whork on October 15, 2012, 06:01:39 AM



Title: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: whork on October 15, 2012, 06:01:39 AM
Where does it say woman are not allowed to gain knowledge?


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: 24KT on October 19, 2012, 12:28:11 PM
Where does it say woman are not allowed to gain knowledge?

I can't speak for ahmed, he'll have to speak for himself.

My understanding of why the taliban is killing girls who go to school is because they are a bunch of mysogynistic pedophiles with a desperate desire to maintain power at all costs.

An educated woman is a gay mysogynist's worst nightmare.

I have a question for you: What makes you think the Taliban is an accurate representation of Islam?

Some might say the taliban is to Islam, what the Westboro Baptist church is to Christianity, and what Zionism is to Judaism.


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: bigbobs on October 19, 2012, 12:54:42 PM
I can't speak for Ahmed either, but I think he avoids these types of questions/threads because he sees them as being stupid (I agree with him, although I don't mind replying in them sometimes).  The reason they are stupid is simply because whoever authors them makes it obvious with his question that he either has done zero research in the matter and/or is just trying to flame.

Here's a few links of Islamic scholars in Pakistan condemning the shooting: 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/pakistani-clerics-add-voices-to-chorus-of-condemnation-against-girls-attackers/2012/10/12/96f0f6cc-1494-11e2-9a39-1f5a7f6fe945_story.html

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia/2012/10/201210127446942327.html

The Taliban claim that they are not against female education (because there is no Islamic scripture that would suggest this), they only insist that schools should not be co-ed, and therefore try to send girls in co-ed schools home.  They must have gotten angry that this girl was condemning them so they tried to take her life.  I obviously agree that the action was deplorable, as do the Islamic scholars mentioned in the few links.

I also already showed you links that showed tens of thosuands of Muslims protesting in support of the young girl, before you created this thread.


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: a_ahmed on October 19, 2012, 01:05:25 PM
This is like a second thread already on the same thing. Are you sincerely inquiring of what Islam teaches or are you just intending to flame on and flame on.

Who is the taliban? Can you identify a person if they are walking and say they are a taliban. Or will you say anyone brown skin and a 'towel head' is a taliban.

I've watched several documentaries and interviews of the Taliban and what they say and how they live is completely contrary to what the media portrays.

The media megalith is out and about with a political agenda, strongly anti-islam. My major is computer animation/media and I studied how to influence people via media and how the whole shenanigans works. That's why I deplore the mainstream media.

It is a tool that can educate, it is a tool that can brainwash, it is a tool that can inform and it is a tool that can misinform, depending on who is wielding that power and to what purpose. There are Muslim channels that showcase what Islam is and what Muslims are but you don't even know about them, all you know is, abc, bbc, cbc, nbc, cnn, fox, and all the other deriatives pretty much owned and operated by the same 4 or so giant media owners.

Everything is labeled 'taliban' if some atrocity is done, if drugs are sold by some 'muslims', if someone is killed, if someone is raped, if someone had acid thrown on them.

Now that out of the way Islam is quite clear, throughout the qur'an imploring mankind (men and women) to learn, to think, to use their God given intellect, to seek knowledge, to ponder, etc...

Muhammad (pbuh) did the same thing, even after one of the battles against the pagans when Muslims captured prisoners of war, in exchange for their freedom they were offered to teach Muslims how to read and write. Education was a rare thing at the time. Hence as Islam spread, wherever Muslims spread, knowledge was key! Hence why the islamic golden age basically gathered, improved and spread knowledge globally. Knowledge is important for Muslims, even if unfortunately there are people who ignorantly are following pre-islamic tribal cultures today.

Pakistan, India, some parts of Arab countries, some places in Africa, they hold onto pre-islamic practices and cultures while still being 'muslim', while Islam overrides all these non-sense beliefs... unfortunately people are not educated in Islam and are just cultural. That was in fact one of the things I had to confront after becoming Muslim, dealing with Muslims who did not have as much knowledge of islam, too much pride (in race/culture/nationality) and not following islam.

You can't seem to differentiate between the two and thus put islam on trial. Even before being Muslim I had a problem with this. Whenever some news came about "honor killings" in Pakistan it was blaring 24/7 on tv. And I KNEW this was not because of islam but because of backwardness of certain people following preislamic cultural practices/beliefs.


Quote
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "The seeking of knowledge is obligatory for every Muslim." - Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 74


The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “One who treads a path in search of knowledge has his path to Paradise made easy by God…” - Riyadh us-Saleheen, 245


The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "A servant of God will remain standing on the Day of Judgment until he is questioned about his (time on earth) and how he used it; about his knowledge and how he utilized it; about his wealth and from where he acquired it and in what (activities) he spent it; and about his body and how he used it." - Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 148


The Prophet also said: "Knowledge from which no benefit is derived is like a treasure out of which nothing is spent in the cause of God." - Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 108


The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "God, His angels and all those in Heavens and on Earth, even ants in their hills and fish in the water, call down blessings on those who instruct others in beneficial knowledge." - Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 422


The Prophet also said: "Acquire knowledge and impart it to the people." - Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 107


The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: "If anyone travels on a road in search of knowledge, God will cause him to travel on one of the roads of Paradise. The angels will lower their wings in their great pleasure with one who seeks knowledge. The inhabitants of the heavens and the Earth and (even) the fish in the deep waters will ask forgiveness for the learned man. The superiority of the learned over the devout is like that of the moon, on the night when it is full, over the rest of the stars. The learned are the heirs of the Prophets, and the Prophets leave (no monetary inheritance), they leave only knowledge, and he who takes it takes an abundant portion. - Sunan of Abu-Dawood, Hadith 1631


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: Archer77 on October 19, 2012, 01:34:28 PM
You didn't answer the question.  You deflected it completely.  Like a lot of weak minded people you retreated into victimhood.  You can't even say outright what happened to that girl was wrong.

Facts, your prophet was a child molester by taking a child as a bride. Fact, women are treated as second class citizens.

Here is my suggestion, leave the western world behind and join your Muslim brother where they live. I'm sure you will enjoy your new life herding goats and living in a cave a lot better.


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: a_ahmed on October 19, 2012, 01:40:56 PM
lol at flame a hoy islamophobes-r-us.

I guess you didn't read a single thing I wrote. Good for you, you do that, it will make you that much more ignorant :)

The whole women are oppressed thing is getting old bro. You are holding onto lame ancient straw islamophobe arguments.

The whole Aisha and Muhammad thing is such a dead horse beaten to death over and over again, it is getting tiresome. America just a hundred years ago had a sex/marriage age of consent of 10 years of age, lowest being 7 in Delaware. She was married to him, after Muhammd (pbuh) passed away, she was responsible for passing on a lot of knowledge about Islam to Muslims, how to live their lives, etc... She even led an army of her own, etc... Always spoke of his treatment, her jealousy whenever he spoke about his first wife Khadija, etc...

You are beating a dead horse bud

Fact: Majority of converts to Islam are university educated women.

Both my mother and grandmother became Muslim alhamdulillah :)

Now a bit of personal facts

Fact: I lived in that crazy ayrab part of the world as a Christian and it was cool.

Fact: I am a westerner, white, pale as paper, and I studied Islam then became Muslim.


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: 24KT on October 19, 2012, 01:44:31 PM
lol at flame a hoy islamophobes-r-us.

I guess you didn't read a single thing I wrote. Good for you, you do that, it will make you that much more ignorant :)

The whole women are oppressed thing is getting old bro. You are holding onto lame ancient straw islamophobe arguments.

Fact: Majority of converts to Islam are university educated women.

Both my mother and grandmother became Muslim alhamdulillah :)

Ahmed, what as your given name before you became muslim and changed it?


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: a_ahmed on October 19, 2012, 01:46:49 PM
I wouldn't give it on a public forum but it's latin in origin :)


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: 24KT on October 19, 2012, 01:55:46 PM
I wouldn't give it on a public forum but it's latin in origin :)

OK no problem. I was thinking it might be a common name we in the west hear every day like, Bill, Tom, Patrick, Dave... etc.

Didn't realize it was something funky like Claudius Lavinius Maximus... in which case, you really want to keep that under raps.  :P


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: a_ahmed on October 19, 2012, 02:03:57 PM
Well it's not THAT uncommon but it's an Italian name and technically of Greek origin ;D Maximus is a sick name though, my wife uses that as a nickname for me but that's for different reason  ;D

Oh and yes I love my wife very much :) I oppress her with love :P Dem kraaaazy mozzlemz!


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: 24KT on October 19, 2012, 02:28:36 PM
Well it's not THAT uncommon but it's an Italian name and technically of Greek origin ;D Maximus is a sick name though, my wife uses that as a nickname for me but that's for different reason  ;D

Oh and yes I love my wife very much :) I oppress her with love :P Dem kraaaazy mozzlemz!

What would be it's English equivalent?


Hmmmm... Greek origin huh? OK, I guess that narrows it down to Peter, George, Gus, or Nick.  :D


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: a_ahmed on October 19, 2012, 02:33:10 PM
Lol ahmed jeopardy, closer but still no.

(http://www.superteachertools.com/jeopardy/pics/jeopardy-screenshot.jpg)

I better get some gold (lmao)


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: 24KT on October 19, 2012, 02:45:38 PM
Lol ahmed jeopardy, closer but still no.

(http://www.superteachertools.com/jeopardy/pics/jeopardy-screenshot.jpg)

I better get some gold (lmao)

Look no further. I'd be happy to hook you up with some Karatbars   :D


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: a_ahmed on October 19, 2012, 02:50:33 PM
lol I knew you'd say that. I do have some gold actually, but at the moment not able to purchase more, priorities :)

Been telling everyone that gold and silver are a good investment since past 10 years. It's just bs that when you travel that countries wanna make you pay customs.

In an islamic caliphate, no one would be charged such things, hence why trade was so popular in the islamic empire. Today trading is a sneaky business where you have to know too many people to get descent profits. Small businesses will have a tough time, customs, taxes...


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: 24KT on October 19, 2012, 03:05:43 PM
lol I knew you'd say that. I do have some gold actually, but at the moment not able to purchase more, priorities :)

Don't buy it, ...Get it for free with Karatbars.  :D

Quote
Been telling everyone that gold and silver are a good investment since past 10 years.

Most of us collecting & acquiring karatbars don't do it as an "investment", but rather as a simple store of value. A means of retaining purchasing power.

Quote
It's just bs that when you travel that countries wanna make you pay customs.

 :o  You're getting the wrong kind of gold then. There are no customs or duties paid on karatbars.

We operate under the International Bullion Laws as set forth under the World Trade Organization under the harmonious tax code. Karatbars gold is duty tax & customs free.

Quote
In an islamic caliphate, no one would be charged such things, hence why trade was so popular in the islamic empire. Today trading is a sneaky business where you have to know too many people to get descent profits. Small businesses will have a tough time, customs, taxes...

Ahmed, I had once heard that Muslims were forbidden from acquiring gold. These days it's become pretty clear to me that I was given incorrect information. Was I also misinformed when I was told that muslims are also forbidden from adorning their bodies in gold as well?

Is that literal, or is that a figurative things relative to instructions to dress modestly.


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: a_ahmed on October 19, 2012, 03:10:29 PM
Oh Muslims can have as much gold as they want. It's actually quite common in most Muslim house holds. Although now a days it's more difficult to get it especially with how westernized life style has become taxing on people's life styles, most people live paycheque to paycheque vs able to have any sort of wealth. None the less, it's still pretty common.

Men are not allowed to adorn themselves with gold. I have a massive thick gold chain, but I never wore it. Got it as a gift from my mom's parents who are still not Muslim.

Men who wear gold and silk in this world will not be wearing it in the hear after. This is one of the commandments from the prophet (pbuh) and we follow it. Although yes you will find some muslims wearing Gold, either they do not know this or they are arrogant and still chose to wear it.

Women are allowed to adorn themselves with gold though.

Quote
Beautification and elegance are not merely permitted but are required by Islam, and in general it repudiates any attempts to prohibit them. Say: Who has forbidden the adornment of Allah which He has brought forth for His servants, and the good things of His providing? (7:32)

Islam has, however, prohibited two kinds of adornment for men, while permitting them to women. These are, first, gold ornaments and, second, clothing made of pure silk. 'All reported that the Prophet (peace be on him) took some silk in his right hand and some gold in his left, declaring, "These two are haram for the males among my followers." (Reported by Ahmad, Abu Daoud, al-Nisai, Ibn Hayyan, and lbn Majah, who reports the additional phrase, "but halal for the females.") 'Umar reported that he heard the Prophet (peace be on him) say, "Do not wear silk, for those who wear it in this life shall not wear it in the Hereafter." (Reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim. A Similar hadith is reported by them on the authority of Anas.) On another occasion, referring to a silken garment, he said, "This is the dress of a man who has no character.'' (Reported by al-Bukhari and Muslim.)

The Prophet (peace be on him) once saw a gold ring on a man's hand. He immediately took it from him and threw it down saying, 'Does a person pick up a piece of burning coal and hold it in his hand?' After the Prophet (peace be on him) had left the place, someone asked the man, 'Why do you not pick it up and benefit from it?' He replied, 'No, by Allah! I shall not pick it up after the Messenger of Allah (peace be on him) has thrown it away.' (Reported by Muslim.)

The same prohibition which applies to the gold ring likewise applies to what we observe among conspicuous spenders, i.e., the gold pen, gold watch, gold cigarette case and lighter, gold teeth, etc.

The Prophet (peace be on him), however, permitted men to wear silver rings. On the authority of Ibn'Umar, al-Bukhari reported the former saying, "The Messenger of Allah (peace be on him) wore a silver ring. After him, Abu Bakr and then 'Umar and 'Uthman wore it, until it fell off his finger into the well of Arees." (Reported by al-Bukhari in the chapter on "Clothing" (Al-Libas).) As for other metals such as iron, there are no sound texts prohibiting them. On the contrary, in the Sahih of al-Bukhari we find that the Messenger of Allah (peace be on him) advised a man who wanted to marry a woman to, "Present her with a gift, even if it be ring made of iron." On the basis of this hadith al-Bukhari inferred the permissibility of iron rings.

The Prophet (peace be on him) made concessions in the wearing of silken garments for medical reasons, as he gave 'Abd al-Rahman bin 'Auf and al-Zubayr bin al-'Awwam, both of whom suffered from scabies, permission to wear silk. (Reported by al-Bukhari.)

Quick copy paste

Furthermore, men are not suppose to make themselves effeminate, therefore any adornments should be manly in nature, not feminine.


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: 24KT on October 19, 2012, 03:33:35 PM

Women are allowed to adorn themselves with gold though.


Phew ! My conversion in the future may still be a possibility then.  ;)   :P   ;D


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: a_ahmed on October 19, 2012, 03:58:27 PM
lol.. Muslim women love gold, mine doesn't and I prefer my wife wearing silver anyway as I find it sexier. But gold is shiny and cool in it's own ways :P I did always have a fascination with unique materials. Silver and gold included. I love crystals too and love those prism cubes! It's quite amazing how from a bunch of atoms we get all these different elements and compounds, it's beautiful.


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: whork on October 25, 2012, 04:52:33 AM
So it doesnt say anywhere in the muslim faith that woman are not alloved to seek knowledge?


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: a_ahmed on October 25, 2012, 08:38:15 AM
No.. and if you read what I posted it shows the contrary. It is mandatory on every muslim to seek knowledge. In fact, this was one of the first things I learned about Islam way back


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: whork on October 26, 2012, 01:09:50 AM
No.. and if you read what I posted it shows the contrary. It is mandatory on every muslim to seek knowledge. In fact, this was one of the first things I learned about Islam way back

So why do some muslims believe the woman should be kept from knowledge? When its mandatory?
Im trying to learn not troll


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: 24KT on October 26, 2012, 02:31:28 PM
So why do some muslims believe the woman should be kept from knowledge? When its mandatory?
Im trying to learn not troll

How easy do you think it is to keep an educated woman perpetually barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen?


Title: Re: To a_ahmed: Why is Taleban killing girls who go to school?
Post by: whork on October 29, 2012, 06:30:34 AM
How easy do you think it is to keep an educated woman perpetually barefoot, pregnant, and in the kitchen?

Good point