Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements Info => Topic started by: NoCalBbEr on November 30, 2005, 01:20:25 PM
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hey guys
i was wondering what is the better amino acid to take. BCAA or Glutamine??
Thx
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If you're going to spend extra money on specific amino acids, I'd opt for BCAA's.
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so are you saying that i dont really need to buy either one??
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Personally I'd rather have glutamine cuz it helps with muscle recovery but if you can afford both thats even better...with aminos (in tablet form) i found i got a really good pump cuz of the arginine but having both is really good.
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glutamine is the most important amino acid .... aids in muscle recovery, builds muscle, helps maintain and strenghten the immune system......... :o
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so are you saying that i dont really need to buy either one??
IMO, no. A lot of protein powders already contain decent amounts of BCAA's and glutamine (for example ON 100% Whey).
And, assuming you're already consuming a diet adequate in protein every day, supplementing with either glutamine or BCAA's will make very little difference, if it would be noticeable at all.
I simply don't think it's worth the extra money you'd be spending.
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IMO, no. A lot of protein powders already contain decent amounts of BCAA's and glutamine (for example ON 100% Whey).
And, assuming you're already consuming a diet adequate in protein every day, supplementing with either glutamine or BCAA's will make very little difference, if it would be noticeable at all.
I simply don't think it's worth the extra money you'd be spending.
trust me if you work out you need glutamine.......any bb will tell you that......
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trust me if you work out you need glutamine.......any bb will tell you that......
So you're saying if you work out, you MUST supplement with glutamine??
You don't NEED any particular supplement.
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So you're saying if you work out, you MUST supplement with glutamine??
You don't NEED any particular supplement.
you dont need any supplement>??????? what! when you work out you break down muscle right so you take it protein and other supplements to repair and grow right??? just like with glutamine, creatine, aminos, there all found inside your muscles right??? when you work out like i was saying you break down fibers in which in return you need to compensate for in supplementation.... your right tho.. if you dont want to make any kind of "real gains" dont use anything.
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you dont need any supplement>??????? what! when you work out you break down muscle right so you take it protein and other supplements to repair and grow right??? just like with glutamine, creatine, aminos, there all found inside your muscles right??? when you work out like i was saying you break down fibers in which in return you need to compensate for in supplementation.... your right tho.. if you dont want to make any kind of "real gains" dont use anything.
Were guys back in the 40's and 50's supplementing w/ a bunch of exotic shit? I think not.
It's a sad day when people think you MUST use supplements to make any gains.
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Were guys back in the 40's and 50's supplementing w/ a bunch of exotic shit? I think not.
It's a sad day when people think you MUST use supplements to make any gains.
dude i cant believe your serious.... you can make gains without taking shit.. but.. if you do take certain supplements you will make better gains.. your body is a dam science you do need certain things to make better gains.... i guarantee to you on my future childrens lives that if you take for example person #1 that doesnt take any kind of supplements other then food, up against person #2 that takes in the proper supplements glutamine/creatine/whatever else is going to grow and maintain muscle more then person #1......
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dude i cant believe your serious.... you can make gains without taking shit.. but.. if you do take certain supplements you will make better gains.. your body is a dam science you do need certain things to make better gains.... i guarantee to you on my future childrens lives that if you take for example person #1 that doesnt take any kind of supplements other then food, up against person #2 that takes in the proper supplements glutamine/creatine/whatever else is going to grow and maintain muscle more then person #1......
Please provide specific studies from peer reviewed journals showing that glutamine is beneficial for muscle growth. I will say that it is beneficial for digestive health and immune function.
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Please provide specific studies from peer reviewed journals showing that glutamine is beneficial for muscle growth. I will say that it is beneficial for digestive health and immune function.
however, a recent study showed up to a 400% increase in growth-hormone levels when as little as 2 grams of free-form L-glutamine supplement was consumed!
Catabolism or muscle break down can occur if the body robs muscles of glutamine for use elsewhere such as nitrogen transport or maintaining the immune system. Glutamine supplementation is certainly important in keeping muscles building--not deteriorating
ps should i include more info for you?
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however, a recent study showed up to a 400% increase in growth-hormone levels when as little as 2 grams of free-form L-glutamine supplement was consumed!
Catabolism or muscle break down can occur if the body robs muscles of glutamine for use elsewhere such as nitrogen transport or maintaining the immune system. Glutamine supplementation is certainly important in keeping muscles building--not deteriorating
ps should i include more info for you?
Sure, how about the exact source of that info.
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Sure, how about the exact source of that info.
bodybuilding.com http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/glutamine.html
dude give up dont try and win at this one
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some mo for dat ass
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Stimulates muscle protein synthesis by donating nitrogen to build proteins.
Increases growth hormone which can induce positive body composition and mood changes (Note: A study done in 1995 by LSU College of Medicine showed that a surprisingly small oral dose of 2 grams of glutamine raised GH levels more than 4X over that of a placebo. Age did not diminish the response of the volunteers who ranged in age from 32 to 64 years.)
Decreases muscle catabolism during exercise
Increases endurance by replenishing glycogen under conditions of glycogen depletion
Decreases muscle recovery time
Decreases the chances of illness/infection by boosting your immune system
Prevents over-training from high loads and long duration activities (recall that blood glutamine levels are an excellent marker of anabolic status).
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Add my vote for BCAA's ;D
:P
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bodybuilding.com http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/glutamine.html
dude give up dont try and win at this one
Gee, now that's a GREAT source of information!! LOL A website that sells, among other things, glutamine products. Naw, they wouldn't be biased at ALL!!!!! ::)
I ask you to provide specific scientific studies showing the muscle building effects of glutamine supplementation from peer reviewed journals. And this is what you come up with? A write up from some hack on bodybuilding.com? That's not going to convince anyone who doesn't buy into the marketing hype of supplements.
Here's what Lyle McDonald (well known researcher and diet guru) has said about glutamine:
"a. There was that one study whree only 2 grams of glutamine raised GH; how relevant this is is hugely debatable. I seem to recall seeing it argued that small amounts of glutamine somehow avoided 'activating' GI uptake so it was possible to sneak some through that way. Or you could take monster dose and just get it through via mass action. Maybe if you wanna take a bottle per day or something.
b. Most of the anabolic glutamine work was in vitro. Put it into a cell and it increases protein synthesis. Two huge problems:
1. Most oral glutamine won't get there
2. There is a HUGE concentration gradient problem with the direction of flow being from inside the muscle cell out. I saw an infusion paper once showing that even infused glutamine couldn't raise intracellular concentrations of glutamine in muscle. No way is oral glutamine going to do it.
About the only way that oral glutamine might impact on muscular glutamine stores would be super indirectly. More or less we have a system of
gut <-> liver <-> blood stream <- skeletal muscle
in terms of how glutamine can flow (and the gut to bloodstream path is limited).
But consider a situation where the gut is using a lot of glutamine for some reason.
IF (and this is a big if) you weren't getting enough in the diet, you might end up seeing a drop in skeletal muscle glutamine stores because it's being pulled out to fuel other tissues.
Providing the gut with plenty (and this is under an immune system challenge or something traumatic like a burn victim) *might* prevent a drop in skeletal muscle concentrations."
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bro i dont care what the hell you put down about glutamine... bottom line , ask any bb and they will tell you that glutamine is one if not the one most important supplement besides protein ( which is #1 building blocks of muscle)..... i used to work at golds gym in fullerton which is owned by milos sarcev u might have heard of him since he is one of the top bb of all time, plus he does contest prep for a few of the top pros in the industry. ive learned a ton of shit since working there a few years back, im not an expert myself but i do know overwelmingly that glutamine should be taken
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bro i dont care what the hell you put down about glutamine... bottom line , ask any bb and they will tell you that glutamine is one if not the one most important supplement besides protein ( which is #1 building blocks of muscle)..... i used to work at golds gym in fullerton which is owned by milos sarcev u might have heard of him since he is one of the top bb of all time, plus he does contest prep for a few of the top pros in the industry. ive learned a ton of shit since working there a few years back, im not an expert myself but i do know overwelmingly that glutamine should be taken
Personally, I don't think pro bodybuilders are the best sources of information, despite what they've achieved. I also don't believe in bodybuilder anecdotes, pros or otherwise. My $.02 and opinion.
If you feel that glutamine benefits you, that's cool. I've taken glutamine in the past, at up to 30 grams a day for months at a time, and didn't notice anything in terms of muscle growth (ie no better growth than before I was taking glutamine). Again, if you like it, that's cool. I can simply agree to disagree. ;)
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if you dont listen to the very people who are the best in the world at what they do and thats bb then you have a problem... thats like going to a hardware store and looking to buy tomatoes its not going to happen!!
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I'm sorry but Lyle graduated from UCLA... ::) Therefore, I hate him ;D
But seriously though, Mr. Mcdonald ONLY has a BS in Kinesiology Blake, I'm sorry but that doesn't warrant much "respect" in the scientific community.
I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, but even on his website he says that these are all his own humble opinions...
And if you think that bodybuilders aren't the best source of information (which I agree), what makes you think that Mr. Mcdonald (with only a BS) is any better???? ??? Just curious...
I don't know bro, it just seems like you see him as God (if you're not him), and you take his word as the end all of all supplements ::) There is life beyond Mcdonald ;D Here's a quote from him, and he sounds completely humble, opposite of they way you make him seem:
"Please note that I am no expert of any sort on the use of steroids or other chemical compounds as they apply to bodybuilding and sporting performance. I know just enough to be dangerous which is arguably worse than knowing nothing at all. Questions pertaining to these topics should be addressed to Bill Roberts who has forgotten more about anabolic steroids than I will ever know. The only compounds I am even passingly familiar with of this nature are those that have some application to ketogenic and cyclical ketogenic diets such as Bodyopus and I am happy to share what little knowledge and experience I have about them.
My feelings about a lot of topics pertaining to nutrition and training is that there is no one size fits all answer. Rather any recommendations I may give or opinions I may have are totally context dependent. An marathon runner has much different nutritional, supplement and training requirements than someone lifting for general fitness twice a week than someone who is an advanced bodybuilder. So don't be surprised if similar questions get vastly different answers of if I say 'It depends' a lot. Also realize that the same pieces of research can be interpreted differently by different people. My opinions may differ from those you see elsewhere based on what I've read."
-Lyle Mcdonald
Just my worthless two cents... ;D
PS He can't help being a bruin 8)
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if you dont listen to the very people who are the best in the world at what they do and thats bb then you have a problem... thats like going to a hardware store and looking to buy tomatoes its not going to happen!!
I disagree. I do not believe that pro bodybuilders got to where they are today because of the supplements they took/take. Which is what makes the supplement advertisments so hilarious. Seeing Markus Ruhl holding a bottle of Nutrex 1-TU and a quote saying something like "1-TU is the best prohormone out there, I take it and love it" is a joke. Really Markus?? It isn't your crazy genetics coupled with an absurd drug regimen (among other things) that got you that physique???
But that's what supplement compaines want you to believe. They prey on gullible consumers who buy the muscle rags and see that pro bodybuilder holding the bottle of No-Xplode, super duper creatine, protein powder, etc. It conveys a message to the little retards that if you take those products you'll build a comparable physique. There are a few supplements out there that do what they claim. But those are few and far between. If you believe otherwise you're a victim of clever marketing schemes. But, it's all good. I'm not the one wasting my money month after month in hopes of finding a "magic bullet".
And again, I don't think personal anecdotes regarding supplements are reliable at all, regardless of who's saying it. Which is where looking at the actual science behind a product and it's claims is helpful.
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I'm sorry but Lyle graduated from UCLA... ::) Therefore, I hate him ;D
But seriously though, Mr. Mcdonald ONLY has a BS in Kinesiology Blake, I'm sorry but that doesn't warrant much "respect" in the scientific community.
I'm not saying he doesn't know what he's talking about, but even on his website he says that these are all his own humble opinions...
And if you think that bodybuilders aren't the best source of information (which I agree), what makes you think that Mr. Mcdonald (with only a BS) is any better???? ??? Just curious...
I don't know bro, it just seems like you see him as God (if you're not him), and you take his word as the end all of all supplements ::) There is life beyond Mcdonald ;D Here's a quote from him, and he sounds completely humble, opposite of they way you make him seem:
"Please note that I am no expert of any sort on the use of steroids or other chemical compounds as they apply to bodybuilding and sporting performance. I know just enough to be dangerous which is arguably worse than knowing nothing at all. Questions pertaining to these topics should be addressed to Bill Roberts who has forgotten more about anabolic steroids than I will ever know. The only compounds I am even passingly familiar with of this nature are those that have some application to ketogenic and cyclical ketogenic diets such as Bodyopus and I am happy to share what little knowledge and experience I have about them.
My feelings about a lot of topics pertaining to nutrition and training is that there is no one size fits all answer. Rather any recommendations I may give or opinions I may have are totally context dependent. An marathon runner has much different nutritional, supplement and training requirements than someone lifting for general fitness twice a week than someone who is an advanced bodybuilder. So don't be surprised if similar questions get vastly different answers of if I say 'It depends' a lot. Also realize that the same pieces of research can be interpreted differently by different people. My opinions may differ from those you see elsewhere based on what I've read."
-Lyle Mcdonald
Just my worthless two cents... ;D
PS He can't help being a bruin 8)
Lyle does admit he's not a steroid expert.
What he's good at is destroying the outrageous claims regarding supplements, for one thing. He's extremely good at looking at research that is applicable to humans, whether it's concerning supplements, dieting, or training. That's why if you spend any time looking at his forum, he shreds companies like Avant who, at times, use pure animal research in justifying their supplement claims. Not everything that works in rats will work equally well or at all in humans, for example.
I certainly don't think I make him out to be "a God" or anything like that (in my view), just because I use some quotes of his. I do however highly respect his opinion and his writings (books). If one were to believe his knowledge stopped at the extent of his formal education, then how can you explain his expertise when it comes to nutrition and dieting? (not trying to start an argument w/ you Brutal) The same could be said of someone like William Llewellyn (sp?) who wrote the Anabolics steroid books. He's known as a steroid expert but has no formal education in the field. I would generally trust Lyle's opinions on a particular supplement moreso than someone who works for a supplement company because Lyle has no interest in supplement sales. There's actually a good thread on his site where people try to bash him saying he's simply against supplements of all sorts. He's not. He knows that certain things work, but also realizes that the majority of what the supplement companies produce is garbage because they're interested in making money and nothing more.
FWIW, I don't only look at what Lyle writes. I've spent plenty of hours learning stuff from the guys at Avant (Nandi,etc.) and T-Mag (Berardi, etc).
My $.02 :)
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LOL
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I GET THE FEELING ILL JUST KEEP PROVING MY POINT, AND THEN YOU WILL JUST TRY AND GET YOUR POINT ACROSS..... IM GOING TO TRY AND POST A PIC SOON ON THIS THING AND THEN WE CAN SEE WHOS RIGHT :o
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The only significant study that showed glutamine directly influenced muscle growth was done with people in a severly catabolic (ie: suffering from different muscle wasting diseases) states. The glutamine source there was given through IV. Thus, unless you've got the Hi V there's better things to spend your money on.
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I GET THE FEELING ILL JUST KEEP PROVING MY POINT, AND THEN YOU WILL JUST TRY AND GET YOUR POINT ACROSS..... IM GOING TO TRY AND POST A PIC SOON ON THIS THING AND THEN WE CAN SEE WHOS RIGHT :o
Actually, I said yesterday that I can agree to disagree. If you feel that glutamine is worthwhile, that's fine. I've used it and don't care for it, even at high doses. I simply don't care to go round and round in circles over it. Nothing personal. ;)
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The only significant study that showed glutamine directly influenced muscle growth was done with people in a severly catabolic (ie: suffering from different muscle wasting diseases) states. The glutamine source there was given through IV. Thus, unless you've got the Hi V there's better things to spend your money on.
You're exactly right.
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are i kidding me theres only been on significant study? says who you?? theres been tons and tons of studies regarding glutamine not just the one your talking about regarding sick people... please read once again and learn somthing important...
We have gathered some comprehensive glutamine information from a variety of sources, as it is an important amino acid essential to many body processes.
L-Glutamine studies reveal that it is the most abundant amino acid in your muscles, and that it plays a major role in synthesizing muslce protein and cell-volumizing. It is also converted into glucose when the body needs more energy.
Perhaps the most important piece of glutamine information for bodybuilders is that it offers anti-catabolic effects, which means it helps prevent muscle breakdown.
With intense cardiovascular workouts, the body often burns muscle for energy and also depletes stored glutamine levels, which take a while to build back up.
L-Glutamine studies show that a glutamine supplement can help maintain these important glutamine levels, as well as help prevent muscle cells from being broken down.
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Not picking sides and not trying to argue, but it is my understanding that intravenous glutamine was given to patients going through surgery to prevent muscle loss do to the amount of stress placed on the immune system by the surgery itself. Now, oral glutamine would not work the same way as intravenous glutamine, but if taken in powder form, in high doses, 10g - 20g, some of it may make it to the bloodstream before it is destroyed in your digestive track. I personally add 10g to 20g of glutamine to my post-workout Whey Isolate shake, more as an anti-catabolic supplement.
As for scientific sources, here are some articles by AST. Yes, they do sell glutamine, but they do list their sources unlike most supplement companies out there.
So many benefits from Glutamine
www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=446 (http://www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=446)
Source: Journal of Cell Physiology, 2005.
Glutamine supplementation prevents destruction of immune cells
www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=370 (http://www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=370)
Source: Med Sci Sports Exerc, 36:210-217, 2004
Consistent, daily glutamine supplementation is the key.
www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=146 (http://www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=146)
The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. 16(1);157–160, 2002.
Supplementing with glutamine enhances muscle glycogen synthesis.
www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=103 (http://www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=103)
J.Appl.Physiol.86;6:1770-1777, 1999.
Glutamine supplementation enhances whey's effect on protein synthesis rates in muscle.
www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=14 (http://www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=14)
Nutrition 2001 Jan;17(1):35-40
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Not picking sides and not trying to argue, but it is my understanding that intravenous glutamine was given to patients going through surgery to prevent muscle loss do to the amount of stress place on the immune system by the surgery itself. Now, oral glutamine would not work the same way as intravenous glutamine, but if taken in powder form, in high doses, 10g - 20g, some of it may make it to the bloodstream before it is destroyed in your digestive track. I personally add 10g to 20g of glutamine to my post-workout Whey Isolate shake, more as an anti-catabolic supplement.
As for scientific sources, here is some articles by AST. Yes, they do sell glutamine, but they do list their sources unlike most supplement companies out there.
So many benefits from Glutamine
www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=446 (http://www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=446)
Source: Journal of Cell Physiology, 2005.
Glutamine supplementation prevents destruction of immune cells
www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=370 (http://www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=370)
Source: Med Sci Sports Exerc, 36:210-217, 2004
Consistent, daily glutamine supplementation is the key.
www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=146 (http://www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=146)
The Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research. 16(1);157–160, 2002.
Supplementing with glutamine enhances muscle glycogen synthesis.
www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=103 (http://www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=103)
J.Appl.Physiol.86;6:1770-1777, 1999.
Glutamine supplementation enhances whey's effect on protein synthesis rates in muscle.
www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=14 (http://www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=14)
Nutrition 2001 Jan;17(1):35-40
ding ding ding we have a winner..... common sense .. glutamine is found within your body in your muscle cells..... muscle get broken down when training so you need to supplement more of it in order to build and prevent your muscle from being in a catabolic state...... of course its not 100% necessary to take it in order to get any results, but you will indeed get better results if you do take it......
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My personal experience with it is not great either, I've tried everything from 5gms daily up to 35 and I don't notice anything in terms of measurable strength/weight gain. I do think its beneficial for the immune system but I've had just as much success preventing colds, etc. by keeping my Vit. C intake at 3gms a day minimum.
Also, if you guys are going to post studies either way I'd suggest getting them from a legitimate source. Posting BB.com or AST-related studies mean fvck all if you're trying to prove a point ::)
The only "study" here worth a damn mentioning is:
-www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=103 -
And even here they used a small group of people comparing a carb-only drink to a glutamine only solution. "8 grams of glutamine were just as effective as 61 gms of carbs in replenishing muscle glycogen". Great. Check out your protein shake next time, you get an average of 4gms of glutamine per scoop of whey as it is. Its probably safe to say most of us here take at least 2 scoops of whey after a workout. Problem solved. :)
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And I can post studies showing the opposite:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11822473&query_hl=1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10410846&query_hl=3
(not so much a specific study as summary of current research regarding oral supplementation of individual amino acids)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14636104&query_hl=15
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11834123&query_hl=15
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10678686&query_hl=15
And around and around we go! :)
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My personal experience with it is not great either, I've tried everything from 5gms daily up to 35 and I don't notice anything in terms of measurable strength/weight gain. I do think its beneficial for the immune system but I've had just as much success preventing colds, etc. by keeping my Vit. C intake at 3gms a day minimum.
Also, if you guys are going to post studies either way I'd suggest getting them from a legitimate source. Posting BB.com or AST-related studies mean fvck all if you're trying to prove a point ::)
The only "study" here worth a damn mentioning is:
-www.ast-ss.com/research/cribb/research_reviews/rr_full_text.asp?rrID=103 -
And even here they used a small group of people comparing a carb-only drink to a glutamine only solution. "8 grams of glutamine were just as effective as 61 gms of carbs in replenishing muscle glycogen". Great. Check out your protein shake next time, you get an average of 4gms of glutamine per scoop of whey as it is. Its probably safe to say most of us here take at least 2 scoops of whey after a workout. Problem solved. :)
You are not going to notice anything in terms of measurable strength/weight gain from glutamine. It is an anti-catabolic supplement. If you are using performance enhancing drugs, then you don't need glutamine since the drugs are much more anti-catabolic. If you are bulking up, then you probably don't need glutamine. I recommend it for non-drug users who are not bulking up, or even yet, are leaning out. You tried it and it didn't work for you and you have your mind set on not using it again. Cool, but it may well work for somebody else.
I don't take what AST, or any other supplement company says as the gospel. I said that AST does at least provide the "legitimate source" on which they base their articles, something that most companies and bodybuilding books out there don't do. ;D
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And I can post studies showing the opposite:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11822473&query_hl=1
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10410846&query_hl=3
(not so much a specific study as summary of current research regarding oral supplementation of individual amino acids)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=14636104&query_hl=15
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11834123&query_hl=15
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=10678686&query_hl=15
And around and around we go! :)
Good reads, but which one of the above shows that glutamine does not help prevent/reduce muscle catabolism?
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I see your point, I just don't agree with the way those kind of wesites extrapolate the data from original studies and post it up as a "technical" write-up. You have to remember those are still marketing people that are converting those studies to consumer-friendly text.
It may work for some people who are in a severly restricted state. I haved used it both during bulking and during my one pre-contest diet, but I am natural so I can't really compare it to anything better in terms of sparing muscle. I can say that high dose BCAA's before a workout and before bed seem to have a much more significant effect in terms of recovery. iow, I do notice differences in (lesser) soreness with BCAA's whereas I did not notice the same with Glutamine.
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Good reads, but which one of the above shows that glutamine does not help prevent/reduce muscle catabolism?
They don't. And that's not the point I'm refuting. I'm saying oral glutamine supplementation is not going to have a positive impact on muscle hypertrophy (gains) or positively affect performance during weight training moreso than not taking it.
Now, one may argue, "well, if it helps w/ catabolism, it's going to help gains over time". I wouldn't agree. I think keeping training in check (volume, frequency, duration, etc) while consuming a good diet high in protein throughout the day will do far more for preventing catabolism than oral glutamine.
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Exactly, if you're looking at the best means of adding the most amount of net muscle over a long period of time, supplementing glutamine really shouldn't play much of a roll at all.
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Blake, and everyone else who stubbornely argues their point over and over again...
HERE'S A QUOTE FOR THE DAY:
"A man convinced against his will,
is of the same opinion still"
...and please don't ask me to find studies to prove this ;D
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Blake, and everyone else who stubbornely argues their point over and over again...
HERE'S A QUOTE FOR THE DAY:
"A man convinced against his will,
is of the same opinion still"
...and please don't ask me to find studies to prove this ;D
lol dam good point
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Blake, and everyone else who stubbornely argues their point over and over again...
???
Isn't the point of a message board to have discussions?
Why is it that when I participate in a discussion (like this one) that I suddenly am deemed stubborn? Because (in this particular discussion) I'm using science and not bodybuilder anecdotes like 'lapd21'? And not saying things like "dude, you don't know what you're talking about, Milos told me otherwise, etc"
As I said before, lapd21 could have left it alone when I said "I can agree to disagree". But he continued posting responses and attempted to make it personal by saying he'd post a pic and that somehow would make me wrong and him right.
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I see your point, I just don't agree with the way those kind of wesites extrapolate the data from original studies and post it up as a "technical" write-up. You have to remember those are still marketing people that are converting those studies to consumer-friendly text.
I am aware of this, and I am cautious. I'll start another thread about websites offering health-related resources.
I was simply showing above that there are indeed studies out there for glutamine supplementation, in case someone here denied it.
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???
Isn't the point of a message board to have discussions?
Why is it that when I participate in a discussion (like this one) that I suddenly am deemed stubborn? Because (in this particular discussion) I'm using science and not bodybuilder anecdotes like 'lapd21'? And not saying things like "dude, you don't know what you're talking about, Milos told me otherwise, etc"
As I said before, lapd21 could have left it alone when I said "I can agree to disagree". But he continued posting responses and attempted to make it personal by saying he'd post a pic and that somehow would make me wrong and him right.
i made it personal.. sorry if i jolted a tear from ya, i was just trying to prove a point that im right and your wrong, just like it is the other way around for you..... ill let you win on this one if you want, im sure you know more then me anwayz right?? id bet my unborn childrens souls you dont, but its cool im done with this topic
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I am aware of this, and I am cautious. I'll start another thread about websites offering health-related resources.
I was simply showing above that there are indeed studies out there for glutamine supplementation, in case someone here denied it.
Good to hear, I know those are out there as well. I just worry about the day people start posting "articles" about Fizogen's Strap as scientific proof. :P
http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/fiz/strap.html
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i made it personal.. sorry if i jolted a tear from ya,
Don't worry, no tears shed here. ;)
i was just trying to prove a point that im right and your wrong,
Right. And I'll I'm saying is I don't know why it couldn't have been a civil, intelligent discussion about the topic rather than making it personal and turning it into a pissing match.
ill let you win on this one if you want, im sure you know more then me anwayz right?? id bet my unborn childrens souls you dont, but its cool im done with this topic
You'll "let" me win? Why, because you don't have valid information refuting the exact scientific stuides I posted or any other info that would make me think glutamine is actually useful for muscular hypertrophy or greater lifting performance? Also, when did this become a competition? When you're trying to convince people that a certain supplement works, you need to provide evidence. I don't consider pro bodybuilder anecdotes or "Joe down the street told me so" or "yeah man, glutamine helped me add 20 pounds!" or random sentences posted from bodybuilding.com as evidence.
And, I see you're still going personal with the "I know more than you, etc." instead of sticking to the topic at hand. Where did I ever claim that I know more than you? Either way, it's all good. ;D
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im not getting personal on here if it sounds like it is im sorry... i actually like you at least your not a dickhead like some people are on here.... im basically just trying to drop this now lol
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im not getting personal on here if it sounds like it is im sorry... i actually like you at least your not a dickhead like some people are on here.... im basically just trying to drop this now lol
Bro, that's cool. I've got absolutely nothing against you, and didn't mean to seem antagonistic.
Take it easy...
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Bro, that's cool. I've got absolutely nothing against you, and didn't mean to seem antagonistic.
Take it easy...
but im still right and your wrong .. lol .... im playin :P :P :P :P
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by the way LAPD, if you have any feedback on the other glutamine forms, I'd like to hear it, AKG, glutamine ethyl ester, etc... As much as I believe that free form glutamine isn't absorbed well, I'm still on the fence when it comes to the newer versions...
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by the way LAPD, if you have any feedback on the other glutamine forms, I'd like to hear it, AKG, glutamine ethyl ester, etc... As much as I believe that free form glutamine isn't absorbed well, I'm still on the fence when it comes to the newer versions...
all i know and believe is that glutamine by supplementing at the least 2 grams can raise growth hormone levels up to 400% ... i always have glutamine on hand and i swear by it...