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Title: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: King Shizzo on December 21, 2012, 01:36:50 PM
I have a question: How can you justify a god letting those kids get massacred in Connecticut? I don't want to hear the tried and true bullshit reply: It was gods will/plan!  So.... his plan, was to let 5 and 6 year olds to get shot in the face at point blank range?  Not my god.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Obvious Gimmick on December 21, 2012, 01:38:16 PM
I have a question: How can you justify a god letting those kids get massacred in Connecticut? I don't want to hear the tried and true bullshit reply: It was gods will/plan!  So.... his plan, was to let 5 and 6 year olds to get shot in the face at point blank range?  Not my god.

God Hates kids. The bible is clear on this issue fuckface


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Nails on December 21, 2012, 01:39:49 PM
God Does not like to intervene in human affairs


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Archer77 on December 21, 2012, 01:44:12 PM
God Does not like to intervene in human affairs

Its against the prime directive.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on December 21, 2012, 01:46:37 PM
God Does not like to intervene in human affairs

Yet every priest in the world likes you to pray to god.  If he doesn't intervene then why pray to him asking him for things?


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Archer77 on December 21, 2012, 01:47:28 PM
Yet every priest in the world likes you to pray to god.  If he doesn't intervene then why pray to him asking him for things?

God needs the money.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: King Shizzo on December 21, 2012, 01:49:15 PM
God Does not like to intervene in human affairs
Then why would he (supposedly) judge us at all?  So he will sit back on the sidelines, and watch all the atrocities of the world?  Then, one day, he will decide that he will come down and judge us all?  The bible version of god/jesus does not exist.  I would believe of a superior race of beings in space, before that.  Remember, it is mathematically impossible for there not to be other life in space. That makes the whole Jesus/bible thing null and void.  I think god exists, it's just not who all of you think he/they are.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Nails on December 21, 2012, 01:49:57 PM
  Praying    LOL




Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Parker on December 21, 2012, 01:58:27 PM
I have a question: How can you justify a god letting those kids get massacred in Connecticut? I don't want to hear the tried and true bullshit reply: It was gods will/plan!  So.... his plan, was to let 5 and 6 year olds to get shot in the face at point blank range?  Not my god.
please stop...
There have been worse atrocities in US history, in other country's history...thru-out human history.
Yet, is this a question of why isn't the world some idealic utopia, where everybody goes around singing "La-la-la" like Smurfette without a care in the world?
Why can't God allow us all to indulge in our own selfish wants and desires? Well, apparently, that's what God has done. Allowed said folks to indulge in what they "wanted" to do, to engage in what makes them happy or let off steam---which happens to be killing kids...
A world made in our own twisted image. This is the world you wanted, right? This is the world you prayed for? revenge when you wanted it, to kill those who you think have done you wrong? To take away what is most important to your enemies, their children?

This is what you (all) prayed for right? Now shit goes wrong, and we question, "why god, why?"


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on December 21, 2012, 02:01:42 PM
Just imagine the hot pussy god must get.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: King Shizzo on December 21, 2012, 02:01:49 PM
please stop...
There have been worse atrocities in US history, in other country's history...thru-out human history.
Yet, is this a question of why isn't the world some idealic utopia, where everybody goes around singing "La-la-la" like Smurfette without a care in the world?
Why can't God allow us all to indulge in our own selfish wants and desires? Well, apparently, that's what God has done. Allowed said folks to indulge in what they "wanted" to do, to engage in what makes them happy or let off steam---which happens to be killing kids...
A world made in our own twisted image. This is the world you wanted, right? This is the world you prayed for? revenge when you wanted it, to kill those who you think have done you wrong? To take away what is most important to your enemies, their children?

This is what you (all) prayed for right? Now shit goes wrong, and we question, "why god, why?"
I don't believe in the bible, or it's version of god.  I hold Santa Claus in the same regard.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: dj181 on December 21, 2012, 02:04:23 PM
God Hates kids. The bible is clear on this issue fuckface

lol


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: OTHstrong on December 21, 2012, 02:11:52 PM
Then why would he (supposedly) judge us at all?  So he will sit back on the sidelines, and watch all the atrocities of the world?  Then, one day, he will decide that he will come down and judge us all?    I would believe of a superior race of beings in space, before that.  Remember, it is mathematically impossible for there not to be other life in space. That makes the whole Jesus/bible thing null and void.  I think god exists, it's just not who all of you think he/they are.
That is your opinion

Also mathematically impossible for there not be life in the universe is a false statement. You can say it is highly unlikely that there is no life out but you can not use the word impossible as an absolute, even if the universe was 10000000000000000x bigger then it is it's still does not prove there is life out there


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: King Shizzo on December 21, 2012, 02:13:10 PM
That is your opinion

Also mathematically impossible for there not be life in the universe is a false statement. You can say it is highly unlikely that there is no life out but you can use the word impossible as an absolute, even if the universe was 10000000000000000x bigger then it is it's still does not prove there is life out there

That is why I respect you.  You are the definition of devout, and you are a true believer.  I can respect that.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: dr.chimps on December 21, 2012, 02:13:50 PM
Hmm. Fench lady who the church denied she was God-given. Then when she was executed made her a saint.  


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: OTHstrong on December 21, 2012, 02:31:59 PM
That is why I respect you.  You are the definition of devout, and you are a true believer.  I can respect that.
I guess I have my reasons to be.

Now to answer your fair question; I like to use an example of an instructor for flying lessons. If you were about to crash land a plane during your lesson will the instructor interfere and take over and save the day? Of course he would. Now if that same instructor is watching you land a plane on a simulator and  he knows you are about to crash, will he interfere? No, cause it is on a simulator.

So this life from God's perspective is like comparing a tiny dot the size of a period to the entire universe, the dot being "a human life span" and the universe" being "everlasting life" that comes next. So what happens in life is meaningless in the grand scheme of things, however as humans with free will we must show love and kindness to each other, such is our duty to do so.

Besides God turned his back on Jesus who suffered more then any human to have ever walked the face of the earth. I mean the guy got tortured beyond human recognition.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: littledumbells on December 21, 2012, 02:45:35 PM
I have a question: How can you justify a god letting those kids get massacred in Connecticut? I don't want to hear the tried and true bullshit reply: It was gods will/plan!  So.... his plan, was to let 5 and 6 year olds to get shot in the face at point blank range?  Not my god.

 SimWorld ......this planet is the ultimate game......gods just out there fucking around with his sim game


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: TrueBB93 on December 21, 2012, 02:54:11 PM
from an Islamic perspective, kids are pure and free of any sin. before puberty your deeds arent recorded. all those Kids whom died (God willing) are going to heaven, without question,(God willing).



Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: arce1988 on December 21, 2012, 03:18:35 PM
  God would NOT play dice.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Mr Nobody on December 21, 2012, 03:59:52 PM
Make sure to give money to the Church or you go to hell so they can build a bigger and newer one yet they teach non materialism.  ::) Its just a guilt trip.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: garebear on December 21, 2012, 04:04:59 PM
I guess I have my reasons to be.

Now to answer your fair question; I like to use an example of an instructor for flying lessons. If you were about to crash land a plane during your lesson will the instructor interfere and take over and save the day? Of course he would. Now if that same instructor is watching you land a plane on a simulator and  he knows you are about to crash, will he interfere? No, cause it is on a simulator.

So this life from God's perspective is like comparing a tiny dot the size of a period to the entire universe, the dot being "a human life span" and the universe" being "everlasting life" that comes next. So what happens in life is meaningless in the grand scheme of things, however as humans with free will we must show love and kindness to each other, such is our duty to do so.

Besides God turned his back on Jesus who suffered more then any human to have ever walked the face of the earth. I mean the guy got tortured beyond human recognition.
Jesus was the most tortured person in human history?

I seriously doubt that. Do you know how many people have been tortured to death?

Have you ever read about Nazi torture, especially in regards to "medical experiments"?


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Shockwave on December 21, 2012, 04:07:46 PM
Its against the prime directive.
Picard would be proud.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: King Shizzo on December 21, 2012, 04:07:55 PM
Make sure to give money to the Church or you go to hell so they can build a bigger and newer one yet they teach non materialism.  ::) Its just a guilt trip.
Religion is a necessary evil. Imagine the anarchy if people knew there were no (afterlife) consequences for thier actions.  The majority of believers in this world are below average on the intelligence scale. It is better that they believe in something.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Parker on December 21, 2012, 04:14:46 PM
Religion is a necessary evil. Imagine the anarchy if people knew there were no (afterlife) consequences for thier actions.  The majority of believers in this world are below average on the intelligence scale. It is better that they believe in something.
Assuming again?

And there would be no anarchy, if it was proven that there was no afterlife, or that we have no souls, and are just merely beings, soulless beings, nothing more than living rocks.
People would continue living, killing, and being. Just that their lives would be all the more emptier.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: King Shizzo on December 21, 2012, 04:19:22 PM
Assuming again?

And there would be no anarchy, if it was proven that there was no afterlife, or that we have no souls, and are just merely beings, soulless beings, nothing more than living rocks.
People would continue living, killing, and being. Just that their lives would be all the more emptier.
No, people would start doing what they wanted.  Try the L.A. riots, but on a global scale. It would be survival of the fittest.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Mr Nobody on December 21, 2012, 04:24:17 PM
Religion is a necessary evil. Imagine the anarchy if people knew there were no (afterlife) consequences for thier actions.  The majority of believers in this world are below average on the intelligence scale. It is better that they believe in something.
Exactly, so they believe this or that which creates wars against other religions, most all wars are fought over religion go figure.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Parker on December 21, 2012, 04:26:46 PM
No, people would start doing what they wanted.  Try the L.A. riots, but on a global scale. It would be survival of the fittest.
People, for the most part do what they want. People will always fear death, more so if they know that there is no "afterlife". Because then, there is no redemption for their sins.

The ones who didn't care, still wouldn't care. Ones who find out, chances are will either try to go out in a blaze of glory or try suicide. Others, would seek comfort with their families, because that is what is real to them.



Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: King Shizzo on December 21, 2012, 04:30:02 PM
People, for the most part do what they want. People will always fear death, more so if they know that there is no "afterlife". Because then, there is no redemption for their sins.

The ones who didn't care, still wouldn't care. Ones who find out, chances are will either try to go out in a blaze of glory or try suicide. Others, would seek comfort with their families, because that is what is real to them.


Death is the greatest mystery in the universe. I have no (keyword) earthly idea of what happens when you die. I would put the "Pearly Gates" towards the bottom of my list though.  8)


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Lord Humungous on December 21, 2012, 04:32:51 PM
I have a question: How can you justify a god letting those kids get massacred in Connecticut? I don't want to hear the tried and true bullshit reply: It was gods will/plan!  So.... his plan, was to let 5 and 6 year olds to get shot in the face at point blank range?  Not my god.

Well shit stain, we have pushed God out of schools, government, public places, taken down the manger because it offends some atheist cockbag (like yourself), tried to remove him off of money and prefer to take his out of the pledge. Now an idiot like yourself had nothing to do on a Friday since his boyfriend stood him up so he tries to fan the flames. Tell me flabby tits, why is it that atheists spend so much time trying to convince the world there is no God- the same one they say doesn't exist anyway?


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Mr Nobody on December 21, 2012, 04:37:54 PM
People, for the most part do what they want. People will always fear death, more so if they know that there is no "afterlife". Because then, there is no redemption for their sins.

The ones who didn't care, still wouldn't care. Ones who find out, chances are will either try to go out in a blaze of glory or try suicide. Others, would seek comfort with their families, because that is what is real to them.


Good post.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: King Shizzo on December 21, 2012, 04:43:56 PM
Well shit stain, we have pushed God out of schools, government, public places, taken down the manger because it offends some atheist cockbag (like yourself), tried to remove him off of money and prefer to take his out of the pledge. Now an idiot like yourself had nothing to do on a Friday since his boyfriend stood him up so he tries to fan the flames. Tell me flabby tits, why is it that atheists spend so much time trying to convince the world there is no God- the same one they say doesn't exist anyway?
Someone is butthurt. Looks like the the religious nutcases have started the name-calling. I am looking for a debate.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Immortal_Technique on December 21, 2012, 05:02:58 PM
Made up stuff is cool.

I am an adult so I don't believe in it.



Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Tightskin on December 21, 2012, 06:19:41 PM
I have a question: How can you justify a god letting those kids get massacred in Connecticut? I don't want to hear the tried and true bullshit reply: It was gods will/plan!  So.... his plan, was to let 5 and 6 year olds to get shot in the face at point blank range?  Not my god.
You think this dimension is the best possibl scenario?   That would be some sad shit.   But if you are a dead body equals worm food superior knowledge fag, it's not suprising.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on December 21, 2012, 06:44:45 PM
Jesus was the most tortured person in human history?

I seriously doubt that. Do you know how many people have been tortured to death?

Have you ever read about Nazi torture, especially in regards to "medical experiments"?


this guy here was no slouch

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlad_the_Impaler


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: MCWAY on December 21, 2012, 06:54:42 PM
Exactly, so they believe this or that which creates wars against other religions, most all wars are fought over religion go figure.

Not really! Most wars are fought over either property, advancing an empire, or a personal vendetta. Whether religion is used to justify such is optional.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: TrueBB93 on December 21, 2012, 07:46:21 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7DFztxnmBc

this guy has a good point about atheists.

Go to 4:20 if you dont want to watch the whole thing.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: BIG ACH on December 21, 2012, 09:48:07 PM

I have a serious question for Christians,

What is meant by, Jesus suffered/died for your sins?


I never understood what that meant?


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Radical Plato on December 21, 2012, 09:59:55 PM
God works in mysterious ways ::) I fucking hate that one!


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: tbombz on December 21, 2012, 10:28:13 PM
Religion is a necessary evil. Imagine the anarchy if people knew there were no (afterlife) consequences for thier actions.  The majority of believers in this world are below average on the intelligence scale. It is better that they believe in something.
i think most people behave welll(or better stated: "as well as they do") out of purely social reasons and not for metaphysical/religious reasons. and then there is also the whole "conscience" thing. if you pay attention to your conscience, your not going to want to behave badly because its going to cause you more emotional turmoil (guilt, shame) on the inside than it will gain you benefits. again, doesnt have anything to do with religion or god or metaphysics or an afterlife.  just simply living with yourself and with others, guides one to try an be moral. so you can accept yourself and so others accept you as well.

all of that being said, some of the brightest minds to have ever lived come to the question of causality and the human experience (the human soul) and found their heart  telling them a god must exist.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: cephissus on December 21, 2012, 11:32:57 PM
I have a serious question for Christians,

What is meant by, Jesus suffered/died for your sins?


I never understood what that meant?

jews used to kill animals to atone for their sins.  jesus was the animal that got killed to atone for everyone's sin.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: magikusar on December 22, 2012, 12:16:23 AM
shut up u commy fascist fag


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Jadeveon Clowney on December 22, 2012, 01:46:34 AM
Hmm. Fench lady who the church denied she was God-given. Then when she was executed made her a saint.  

wtf? someone has begun the descent into senility.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: #1 Klaus fan on December 22, 2012, 02:31:32 AM
Religion is a necessary evil. Imagine the anarchy if people knew there were no (afterlife) consequences for thier actions.  The majority of believers in this world are below average on the intelligence scale. It is better that they believe in something.

Apes don't believe in afterlife as far as we know and they live life just fine.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: King Shizzo on December 22, 2012, 04:20:53 AM
Apes don't believe in afterlife as far as we know and they live life just fine.
They would rip your nutsack off in a heartbeat.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: OTHstrong on December 22, 2012, 07:46:21 AM
Jesus was the most tortured person in human history?

I seriously doubt that. Do you know how many people have been tortured to death?

Have you ever read about Nazi torture, especially in regards to "medical experiments"?

I study history and have read it all, from Homers work to the book of martyrs. The Egyptians, The Babylonians, The Assyrians, The Persians, The Greeks and The Romans were all brutal and tortured in public executions. Flaying and getting boiled alive were common.

Tacitus quote;
Christus [Jesus], from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate

Jesus was known for his tremendous will, the description of him was unparalleled. He fasted for 40 days once just to get an idea of how mentally tough he was. Now if you study Roman history you would know that flogging or scorching or any type of torture the Romans gave out was done for a duration not specified but at the very minimum till complete submission and also every last ounze of will is drained out of you. The chastisement received by Jesus was tremendously greater then any other for the simple reason that he never did submit and kept his position thus making them have no reason to stop torturing him. The description given was that he was not recognizable.

Now if it isn't bad enough that the Romans where brutal in the art of torturing, Pontius Pilot was eventually removed from all power and exiled before he committed suicide for the sole reason that he was too ruthless and barbaric so just think of what levels of pain would be reached under his sentence.

whipped from head to toe, every square inch of his body, a leather strap with claws made out of lead that curled into your flesh. A crown of thorns was placed on his head and he was forced to carry his cross in near death condition over half a mile up hill.

Now the crucifixion, a "torture to death" method second to non, slow and painful. The Romans where extremely particular in their methods and thought out every aspect of pain known to man, including sticking the nails in the parts of the body that have the most nerve endings. You know it's torture when shattering the bones in their legs with an iron club is considered a relief and act of mercy so they die faster. Also where do you think the word 'excruciating' is derived from, Crucifixion.

The average person would have died with less then 5% of what Jesus went through, while his courage and his mental toughness carried him that far clearly puts him in a category of his own. Single most historical moment sense the beginning of mankind. No one suffered more, period.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Radical Plato on December 22, 2012, 07:59:52 AM
I study history and have read it all, from Homers work to the book of martyrs. The Egyptians, The Babylonians, The Assyrians, The Persians, The Greeks and The Romans were all brutal and tortured in public executions. Flaying and getting boiled alive were common.

Tacitus quote;
Christus [Jesus], from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate

Jesus was known for his tremendous will, the description of him was unparalleled. He fasted for 40 days once just to get an idea of how mentally tough he was. Now if you study Roman history you would know that flogging or scorching or any type of torture the Romans gave out was done for a duration not specified but at the very minimum till complete submission and also every last ounze of will is drained out of you. The chastisement received by Jesus was tremendously greater then any other for the simple reason that he never did submit and kept his position thus making them have no reason to stop torturing him. The description given was that he was not recognizable.

Now if it isn't bad enough that the Romans where brutal in the art of torturing, Pontius Pilot was eventually removed from all power and exiled before he committed suicide for the sole reason that he was too ruthless and barbaric so just think of what levels of pain would be reached under his sentence.

whipped from head to toe, every square inch of his body, a leather strap with claws made out of lead that curled into your flesh. A crown of thorns was placed on his head and he was forced to carry his cross in near death condition over half a mile up hill.

Now the crucifixion, a "torture to death" method second to non, slow and painful. The Romans where extremely particular in their methods and thought out every aspect of pain known to man, including sticking the nails in the parts of the body that have the most nerve endings. You know it's torture when shattering the bones in their legs with an iron club is considered a relief and act of mercy so they die faster. Also where do you think the word 'excruciating' is derived from, Crucifixion.

The average person would have died with less then 5% of what Jesus went through, while his courage and his mental toughness carried him that far clearly puts him in a category of his own. Single most historical moment sense the beginning of mankind. No one suffered more, period.
And it's all true, it couldn't possibly be myth to further entice and brainwash his followers.  But then again he did turn water into wine, raised Lazarus from the dead, healed lepers and the blind, walked on water, calmed a storm and cursed out and withered a fig tree, and that stuff doesn't sound so far fetched.  So maybe he was tougher than a normal man.  ::)


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: OTHstrong on December 22, 2012, 08:01:46 AM
I have a serious question for Christians,

What is meant by, Jesus suffered/died for your sins?


I never understood what that meant?
This is difficult to understand if you are not a Christian. The Bible says for wages of sin is death and Jesus never sinned but he paid the wages of sin. So he paid for our sins by dying cause he never had any of his own. Had he sinned then died on the cross our sins would not have been paid for cause his death would have only covered his sins, you get it?


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: SF1900 on December 22, 2012, 08:03:02 AM
And it's all true, it couldn't possibly be myth to further entice and brainwash his followers.  But then again he did turn water into wine, raised Lazarus from the dead, healed lepers and the blind, walked on water, calmed a storm and cursed out and withered a fig tree, and that stuff doesn't sound so far fetched.  So maybe he was tougher than a normal man.  ::)

Those sound like good fairy tales. Are they creations by Walt Disney?

Oh wait............ :-\ :-\


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: OTHstrong on December 22, 2012, 08:13:17 AM
And it's all true, it couldn't possibly be myth to further entice and brainwash his followers.  But then again he did turn water into wine, raised Lazarus from the dead, healed lepers and the blind, walked on water, calmed a storm and cursed out and withered a fig tree, and that stuff doesn't sound so far fetched.  So maybe he was tougher than a normal man.  ::)
Why must you interrupt a perfectly good discussion with your gibberish horse shit, seriously was that the point of the post, No Einstein.

 garebear wanted me to justify my statement that Jesus suffered the most, we were not talking about your horseshit stupidity. My justification is meaningless had he just said what you said above. And I will bring up my points based on the written work pertaining to Jesus, if it is wrong then it's wrong. As a historian one does not pick what he wants to believe and what he doesn't, you take the written work and that's all you have to go by and when you discuss any historical event or historical figure your discussion is based on the assumption of the written work brainiac.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on December 22, 2012, 09:06:38 AM
I study history and have read it all, from Homers work to the book of martyrs. The Egyptians, The Babylonians, The Assyrians, The Persians, The Greeks and The Romans were all brutal and tortured in public executions. Flaying and getting boiled alive were common.

Tacitus quote;
Christus [Jesus], from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate

Jesus was known for his tremendous will, the description of him was unparalleled. He fasted for 40 days once just to get an idea of how mentally tough he was. Now if you study Roman history you would know that flogging or scorching or any type of torture the Romans gave out was done for a duration not specified but at the very minimum till complete submission and also every last ounze of will is drained out of you. The chastisement received by Jesus was tremendously greater then any other for the simple reason that he never did submit and kept his position thus making them have no reason to stop torturing him. The description given was that he was not recognizable.

Now if it isn't bad enough that the Romans where brutal in the art of torturing, Pontius Pilot was eventually removed from all power and exiled before he committed suicide for the sole reason that he was too ruthless and barbaric so just think of what levels of pain would be reached under his sentence.

whipped from head to toe, every square inch of his body, a leather strap with claws made out of lead that curled into your flesh. A crown of thorns was placed on his head and he was forced to carry his cross in near death condition over half a mile up hill.

Now the crucifixion, a "torture to death" method second to non, slow and painful. The Romans where extremely particular in their methods and thought out every aspect of pain known to man, including sticking the nails in the parts of the body that have the most nerve endings. You know it's torture when shattering the bones in their legs with an iron club is considered a relief and act of mercy so they die faster. Also where do you think the word 'excruciating' is derived from, Crucifixion.

The average person would have died with less then 5% of what Jesus went through, while his courage and his mental toughness carried him that far clearly puts him in a category of his own. Single most historical moment sense the beginning of mankind. No one suffered more, period.

Actor Woody Harrelson did a 40 day fast among many other humans. I believe many Monks went further than 40 days. Although 40 days if very impressive, its really not that big of deal if that's all Jesus did. However I have read that after 40 days, the body starts to attack the organs. So maybe that's why Jesus had the 40 day number in his mind. But since many other humans have done the 40 day fast that Jesus has done, maybe there's many humans that could also take the beaten that Jesus took.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Griffith on December 22, 2012, 09:19:55 AM
There's no meaning to anything, complete random chaos.

We're just animals like any other with the sole purpose of reproducing and complete insignificant specks in this universe of trillions of stars.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: King Shizzo on December 22, 2012, 09:22:25 AM
There's no meaning to anything, complete random chaos.

We're just animals like any other with the sole purpose of reproducing and complete insignificant specks in this universe of trillions of stars.
Simple and to the point.  Can't argue.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: garebear on December 22, 2012, 09:51:01 PM
Why would Jesus have suffered more than the others crucified during the same historical period?



Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Radical Plato on December 22, 2012, 09:59:46 PM
Why would Jesus have suffered more than the others crucified during the same historical period?


Because he was Jesus, God Damn it!  ::)


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: OTHstrong on December 22, 2012, 10:22:28 PM
Why would Jesus have suffered more than the others crucified during the same historical period?


I just explained it to you, 2 reasons why, cause he never submitted and didn't yield during his torture so they inflicted more on him then they would have had he yielded and submitted and begged for mercy and reason number 2 was he was mentally ahead of everyone so he survived the torture that would have killed anyone else. Fear raises your heart rate and causes you to die quicker so someone as fearless as Jesus would have survived longer and his lack of anger and humbleness would have kept him calm again another reason he would have endured more. We know this cause even after all the inflicted pain, he said "forgive them for they know not what they do"

So even if there was another equal to him in strength and mental fortitude they would have to be in the right place at the right time, they would have had to be just as calm, just as humble, just as fearless. Ask a medical DR. how much faster one dies when being angry, when having fear, or when someone panics. Such a human would not go unnoticed.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: OTHstrong on December 22, 2012, 10:37:09 PM
Actor Woody Harrelson did a 40 day fast among many other humans. I believe many Monks went further than 40 days. Although 40 days if very impressive, its really not that big of deal if that's all Jesus did. However I have read that after 40 days, the body starts to attack the organs. So maybe that's why Jesus had the 40 day number in his mind. But since many other humans have done the 40 day fast that Jesus has done, maybe there's many humans that could also take the beaten that Jesus took.
No argument there, but the question is how many have done that, I guarantee there are less then 100 people alive that can do this, very few can, it was mere 3 weeks that people in eastern Europe turned to cannibalism. Imagine taking one of those monks and beaten them to death, would be no easy feat, they probably wouldn't even make a peep.

Now some like this would have to be in the right situation where the ones torturing would have thought out the most painful way possible of dying such as the Romans did. This puts Jesus in very good position to be the candidate for the most pain endured before dying. I admit no one can claim for sure but at the very least very few would be in this position.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: BIG ACH on December 22, 2012, 10:58:26 PM
This is difficult to understand if you are not a Christian. The Bible says for wages of sin is death and Jesus never sinned but he paid the wages of sin. So he paid for our sins by dying cause he never had any of his own. Had he sinned then died on the cross our sins would not have been paid for cause his death would have only covered his sins, you get it?

Thank you onetimehard For that explanation ...


I have openly admitted on the forum that I am generally a nonbeliever, even though I was raised in a Muslim household, but I do genuinely enjoy the historical aspects and the teachings of many religions.  I Attended catholic church Sunday mass for 6 straight weeks, and don't everybody jump on me, but I saw that there are many Similarities between Christianity and Islam.... and not to sound cliche, but I watched The Passion of the Christ to learn more about the history (regardless of how accurate or inaccurate it may be)

So OK, I get what you are saying....  Jesus never sinned and as a result had no debt in the eyes of god, but he suffered or paid the Debt for humanities sinning.  So does that mean everyones sins after Jesus are just wiped clean since the debt is already paid?  Or are people still held accountable for their sins?  I assume that they are still held accountable regardless, but then how exactly is this debt paid??  Like if Jesus paid the debt, why are people still then held accountable?


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: OTHstrong on December 22, 2012, 11:20:54 PM
Thank you onetimehard For that explanation ...


I have openly admitted on the forum that I am generally a nonbeliever, even though I was raised in a Muslim household, but I do genuinely enjoy the historical aspects and the teachings of many religions.  I Attended catholic church Sunday mass for 6 straight weeks, and don't everybody jump on me, but I saw that there are many Similarities between Christianity and Islam.... and not to sound cliche, but I watched The Passion of the Christ to learn more about the history (regardless of how accurate or inaccurate it may be)

So OK, I get what you are saying....  Jesus never sinned and as a result had no debt in the eyes of god, but he suffered or paid the Debt for humanities sinning.  So does that mean everyones sins after Jesus are just wiped clean since the debt is already paid?  Or are people still held accountable for their sins?  I assume that they are still held accountable regardless, but then how exactly is this debt paid??  Like if Jesus paid the debt, why are people still then held accountable?
The way it works is that the option of having your sins forgiven is there for everyone but only the ones that have accepted Jesus in their heart will be given the gift of salvation. So if you accept Jesus, you then accept he died for our sins. Your sins are not wiped out per se, you will still be judged for them, however the punishment or your sentence has already been served. So for the one that do not accept Jesus, by doing so you are rejecting his offer of `him dying for your sins`so him dying for our sins is not automatic, You either accept the offer or reject it.

 Now there is a feeling associated with accepting Jesus as your saviour and any Christian can tell you about this feeling, but of course most people will tell you that this feeling is baloney and blah blah blah. The feeling is distinct feeling, like jealousy, or like infatuating. But it is a real feeling and this feeling comes up everytime you are mean to someone or every time you do something wrong and it is something that causes you discomfort when you doing the wrong thing and it is not guilt but a strong feeling that was not there before I accepted Jesus as saviour.

So people say ``so you can accept Jesus and the kill people and your saved anyway`` it does not work that way. You won`t feel like killing someone.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Primemuscle on December 22, 2012, 11:24:28 PM
I have a question: How can you justify a god letting those kids get massacred in Connecticut? I don't want to hear the tried and true bullshit reply: It was gods will/plan!  So.... his plan, was to let 5 and 6 year olds to get shot in the face at point blank range?  Not my god.

God has nothing to do with these horrors, IMO. It is wrong to either blame God for people's failings or to suggest that it was god's will. "My" God wants only good. It is people who fuck things up.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: BIG ACH on December 22, 2012, 11:25:12 PM
The way it works is that the option of having your sins forgiven is there for everyone but only the ones that have accepted Jesus in their heart will be given the gift of salvation. So if you accept Jesus, you then accept he died for our sins. Your sins are not wiped out per se, you will still be judged for them, however the punishment or your sentence has already been served. So for the one that do not accept Jesus, by doing so you are rejecting his offer of `him dying for your sins`so him dying for our sins is not automatic, You either accept the offer or reject it.

 Now there is a feeling associated with accepting Jesus as your saviour and any Christian can tell you about this feeling, but of course most people will tell you that this feeling is baloney and blah blah blah. The feeling is distinct feeling, like jealousy, or like infatuating. But it is a real feeling and this feeling comes up everytime you are mean to someone or every time you do something wrong and it is something that causes you discomfort when you doing the wrong thing and it is not guilt but a strong feeling that was not there before I accepted Jesus as saviour.

So people say ``so you can accept Jesus and the kill people and your saved anyway`` it does not work that way. You won`t feel like killing someone.

In The christian faith Is Jesus dying for your sins, directly correlated to 'confession'?


Thank you for answering my questions.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Primemuscle on December 22, 2012, 11:25:29 PM
Yet every priest in the world likes you to pray to god.  If he doesn't intervene then why pray to him asking him for things?

Perhaps this explains why I don't pray.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: tbombz on December 22, 2012, 11:25:51 PM
I do genuinely enjoy the historical aspects and the teachings of many religions. 
you would find it interesting to know that the stories in the old testament about the kings of judah were written by the scribes employed by the kings who were created the scriptures as a way to legitemate the rule of the king in the eyes of the people and in the eyes of other kings in neighboring regions. the scribes would rewrite the history of how the king came to power, saying it was god's will and the king was commanded by the lord to act in the way he did on his path to power. they were written in such a manner as to appease the spiritual longings of the poor, they had to be wise enough in order to garner belief in their validity so the scribes worked very hard to produce literature that would speak truth to peoples hearts while educating them about the "legitemacy" of the kings rule, how it is god's will, etc.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Primemuscle on December 22, 2012, 11:27:55 PM
Then why would he (supposedly) judge us at all?  So he will sit back on the sidelines, and watch all the atrocities of the world?  Then, one day, he will decide that he will come down and judge us all?  The bible version of god/jesus does not exist.  I would believe of a superior race of beings in space, before that.  Remember, it is mathematically impossible for there not to be other life in space. That makes the whole Jesus/bible thing null and void.  I think god exists, it's just not who all of you think he/they are.

Some religions teach their practitioners that God judges and a few don't. I believe God does not judge.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: BIG ACH on December 22, 2012, 11:29:52 PM
you would find it interesting to know that the stories in the old testament about the kings of judah were written by the scribes employed by the kings who were created the scriptures as a way to legitemate the rule of the king in the eyes of the people and in the eyes of other kings in neighboring regions. the scribes would rewrite the history of how the king came to power, saying it was god's will and the king was commanded by the lord to act in the way he did on his path to power. they were written in such a manner as to appease the spiritual longings of the poor, they had to be wise enough in order to garner belief in their validity so the scribes worked very hard to produce literature that would speak truth to peoples hearts while educating them about the "legitemacy" of the kings rule, how it is god's will, etc.

Tbombz, I imagine a lot or historical writings are done in a similar fashion.  Just goes with the trade I guess?


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: tbombz on December 22, 2012, 11:32:39 PM
Tbombz, I imagine a lot or historical writings are done in a similar fashion.  Just goes with the trade I guess?
yeah. as the old saying goes "history is written by the winners"


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Primemuscle on December 22, 2012, 11:36:26 PM
This is difficult to understand if you are not a Christian.

I find comments like this to be a total cop out. What you really mean to say is that this is difficult to understand if you do not believe as I do. It has nothing to do with being a Christian.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Primemuscle on December 22, 2012, 11:39:01 PM
There's no meaning to anything, complete random chaos.

We're just animals like any other with the sole purpose of reproducing and complete insignificant specks in this universe of trillions of stars.

Some of us "animals" believe we are slightly more intelligent then the rest of the animals, which means we are not exactly like any other animal or that our sole purpose is to reproduce.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: OTHstrong on December 23, 2012, 12:00:38 AM
I find comments like this to be a total cop out. What you really mean to say is that this is difficult to understand if you do not believe as I do. It has nothing to do with being a Christian.
Well then you did not understand what I said, read again and don`t jump the gun with a false stupid statement. Difficult to understand if you don't know the story line is what I meant by saying that. not diffcult to understand cause you don`t believe what I believe, where did you come up with that brainiac.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Primemuscle on December 23, 2012, 12:08:15 AM
Well then you did not understand what I said, read again and don`t jump the gun with a false stupid statement. Difficult to understand if you don't know the story line is what I meant by saying that. not diffcult to understand cause you don`t believe what I believe, where did you come up with that brainiac.

If you wish to be understood, try making sense....which is something you've failed to do in this post.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: OTHstrong on December 23, 2012, 12:10:25 AM
If you wish to be understood, try making sense....which is something you've failed to do in this post.
Are you done nitpicking :P


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Griffith on December 23, 2012, 12:27:15 AM
Some of us "animals" believe we are slightly more intelligent then the rest of the animals, which means we are not exactly like any other animal or that our sole purpose is to reproduce.

At our core, that is our instinct, but because of intelligence we can use contraception to still have sex and carry on with our natural instincts, just like any other animal.

We're 'intelligent' because we developed speech, which allowed a different type of thinking process and also allowed for better transfer of information and thus faster brain development.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Primemuscle on December 23, 2012, 12:33:13 AM
Are you done nitpicking :P

Just looking for some clarity.

In reference to your original post. I don't believe Jesus died for my sins. It's not that I haven't sinned, because I have. I just did it a very long time after Jesus was crucified.  ::)


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: OTHstrong on December 23, 2012, 12:43:06 AM
Just looking for some clarity.

In reference to your original post. I don't believe Jesus died for my sins. It's not that I haven't sinned, because I have. I just did it a very long time after Jesus was crucified.  ::)
Hey, I am not breathing this down people`s throats, I was asked a question and I answered from A Christians perspective, to each their own, I ain`t judging you or saying I am right, you are wrong, non of that just answering the question as my duty to do so as a Christian.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Primemuscle on December 23, 2012, 12:48:29 AM
Hey, I am not breathing this down people`s throats, I was asked a question and I answered from A Christians perspective, to each their own, I ain`t judging you or saying I am right, you are wrong, non of that just answering the question as my duty to do so as a Christian.

I apologize if I suggested you were forcing your beliefs on me or anyone else. I may have mistakenly lumped you in with some "Christians" I know who often preach that their way is the only way. I have no problem with you answering questions from a Christian perspective. There is room in this life for many beliefs, IMO.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: OTHstrong on December 23, 2012, 12:54:04 AM
I apologize if I suggested you were forcing your beliefs on me or anyone else. I may have mistakenly lumped you in with some "Christians" I know who often preach that their way is the only way. I have no problem with you answering questions from a Christian perspective. There is room in this life for many beliefs, IMO.
Well those Christians are stupid, that kind of behavior makes people hate Christianity even more. No one can tell anyone what to believe, it is up to them to find what they feel is the right path. I am often embarrassed on how some Christians behave.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Primemuscle on December 23, 2012, 01:12:00 AM
Well those Christians are stupid, that kind of behavior makes people hate Christianity even more. No one can tell anyone what to believe, it is up to them to find what they feel is the right path. I am often embarrassed on how some Christians behave.

I think what we believe should be and often is very personal. My wife is Catholic. She grew up Catholic and was even educated in Catholic schools. My parents followed the teachings of Dr. Ernest Homes, founder of Religious Science, holding metaphysical concepts. When I feel like I need a refresher, I go a Religious Science service. However, I also attend church with my wife. Our children were both raised Catholic. Our son is still a Catholic, while our daughter maintains that she is an atheist.

I'm completely agree with you that when people push their beliefs on others, particularly those who hold that their way is the only way, they often end up alienating folks. People are just people. We are all flawed. We all make mistakes. Don't let other people's errors in judgment embarrass you.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: OTHstrong on December 23, 2012, 01:22:33 AM
I think what we believe should be and often is very personal. My wife is Catholic. She grew up Catholic and was even educated in Catholic schools. My parents followed the teachings of Dr. Ernest Homes, founder of Religious Science, holding metaphysical concepts. When I feel like I need a refresher, I go a Religious Science service. However, I also attend church with my wife. Our children were both raised Catholic. Our son is still a Catholic, while our daughter maintains that she is an atheist.

I'm completely agree with you that when people push their beliefs on others, particularly those who hold that their way is the only way, they often end up alienating folks. People are just people. We are all flawed. We all make mistakes. Don't let other people's errors in judgment embarrass you.
Wow, interesting,how old are your children now? what is your position if don`t mind me asking, sounds like you believe in God but don`t believe that Jesus died for our sins, am I right?

Ya as Christians the best thing to do is to explain to people why you believe what you do ( assuming they are interested) and never take the approach that they should believe so or must, so simply telling them the reasons why you believe is getting any message across without the fundamentalist aspect that throws so many away.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Primemuscle on December 23, 2012, 02:13:31 AM
Wow, interesting,how old our your children now? what is your position if don`t mind me asking, sounds like you believe in God but don`t believe that Jesus died for our sins, am I right?

Ya as Christians the best thing to do is to explain to people why you believe what you do ( assuming they are interested) and never take the approach that they should believe so or must, so simply telling them the reasons why you believe is getting any message across without the fundamentalist aspect that throws so many away.

They are both mature adults. Our son is 46 and our daughter is 37. Both our son and our daughter married Catholics and married in the Catholic church as did my wife and I. All of our grandchildren were baptized in the Catholic church. Guess I am the renegade in our family, huh?

I have faith in a higher power. Most people understand this as being God, but I am open to idea of a divine intelligence, be it Mohammed, Buddha, God or whatever. For me, it is more about believing in something greater than yourself. I believe Jesus was an amazing man who accomplished some fantastic things for the short time he was in this world. Had he not been crucified and thus been made a martyr, how most people feel about him might be very different.

It bothers me that so much fighting has gone on since the beginning of time because of religious beliefs/differences. Because of this, I believe religion is a human invention and not necessarily divine. The bible is an interesting book. It is surprising to me that many people believe it is the gospel. I see it more as folklore. Not that there aren't some valid lessons to be learned from reading the bible, because there are. I believe in hell on earth not in some afterlife. I don't expect others to believe what I do.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: OTHstrong on December 23, 2012, 02:30:36 AM
What  ??? how old are you? wow, a thousand apologies for being rude to you brother I would never talk to someone your age like that. Wait a second you are the older dude from the physique ranking thread, ahhh I remember you bro, cheers.  ;)


Ya as far as the wars are concerned, well, a warlord or a general is always looking to fuel their men with a good morale and nothing does it better then religion unfortunately.


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: Primemuscle on December 23, 2012, 03:59:36 PM
What  ??? how old are you? wow, a thousand apologies for being rude to you brother I would never talk to someone your age like that. Wait a second you are the older dude from the physique ranking thread, ahhh I remember you bro, cheers.  ;)


Ya as far as the wars are concerned, well, a warlord or a general is always looking to fuel their men with a good morale and nothing does it better then religion unfortunately.

I am 68 years old. I don't expect special treatment or respect just because of my age. Were you rude to me? I don't recall that you were. I am the dude with all the teeth showing (and yes, they are actually mine), with a white beard and bald head who posted a photo of myself on the physique ranking thread. No current shirtless photos this year though until I get my sorry ass back to the gym. LOL!


Title: Re: Religious Nutcases Pt. 2
Post by: 24KT on January 04, 2013, 10:31:22 AM
Well those Christians are stupid, that kind of behavior makes people hate Christianity even more. No one can tell anyone what to believe, it is up to them to find what they feel is the right path. I am often embarrassed on how some Christians behave.

BINGO!!!
except it's not just Christians. Jews, Muslims, Atheists... all kinds of sadistic control freaks are like that as well. It just manifests most often and is quicker to spot in areas of religion & politics.