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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: usmcdevildoc on January 02, 2013, 01:16:04 PM



Title: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: usmcdevildoc on January 02, 2013, 01:16:04 PM
Just found out that I am in the greater than $450K tax bracket!!! Ran into a fuckin' idiot at the gym @ 5 am this morning. The dude somes up to me (come on???) to tell me he is disabled and has schizophrenia and is "poz". No evidence of psychosis at this time, so I ask why he doesn't want to work, noting this might give him more motivation instead of "sucking off the tit of society." I say get rid of medical disability and Workman's Comp., except in catastropic cirmstances--- no need to raise taxes!!!

Can not believe I am supporting shit like this-- fuck he gets to actually work out twice a day and has access to test and GH!! Entitlement... Umm.

DOC
Lift, fuck, make money


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Irongrip400 on January 02, 2013, 01:33:01 PM
Congrats on your success.  Two years, I should be there going by the upward trend in my earnings year over year.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: oldtimer1 on January 02, 2013, 01:33:41 PM
Disability social security was created with the best of intentions. If you are physically unable to work due to a permanent heart condition or some other serious medical condition we as a society will take care of you. Same with mental problems. If your mentally retarded adult or have truly incapacitated by schizophrenia we will give you a government check. It is so well intended.

What has happened during the past 4 years is an explosion of people wanting a social security disability check for life every month. Everyone is scamming the system. Want a check for life just get put in a mental hospital for a week and see a shrink one a week for a year. Then for the rest of your life you are gold for food stamps, social security disability checks and housing assistance. Go to the local food pantry and use your check money for a smart phone and booze. Don't get me started on these phony physical problems and seeing people dancing and going to the gym.  


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: nicorulez on January 02, 2013, 01:55:29 PM
Just found out that I am in the greater than $450K tax bracket!!! Ran into a fuckin' idiot at the gym @ 5 am this morning. The dude somes up to me (come on???) to tell me he is disabled and has schizophrenia and is "poz". No evidence of psychosis at this time, so I ask why he doesn't want to work, noting this might give him more motivation instead of "sucking off the tit of society." I say get rid of medical disability and Workman's Comp., except in catastropic cirmstances--- no need to raise taxes!!!

Can not believe I am supporting shit like this-- fuck he gets to actually work out twice a day and has access to test and GH!! Entitlement... Umm.

DOC
Lift, fuck, make money

DevilDoc, I too am over the 450K mark (married), but considering that if no deal were made we would have had a 26% cut in Medicare Payments thanks to SGR and Obama would have increased taxes over 200/250K, we are better off. Hopefully, the Republicans can put some restraints on the entitlement mentality of America, but hey with all the foreigner's and minorities that may be a hard sell.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on January 02, 2013, 04:27:37 PM
When the government stops giving billions of tax payer dollars to other countries for god knows what, then and only then will I worry about the people in this country being helped out. How many Billions of your money is being funneled to Afghan Warlords? African Warlords etc. I'd rather see my tax dollar go to some schitzo who works out twice a day than to some Warlords who kill women and children for fun.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Jack T. Cross on January 02, 2013, 05:26:10 PM
Yeah, sounds like priority-confusion.

Lots of guys making shit up as they go along.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Kwon_2 on January 02, 2013, 05:27:32 PM
Regarding Entitlement

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/15684_10151162550811472_1247682140_n.jpg)


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Jack T. Cross on January 02, 2013, 05:30:12 PM
^Strange, that MetLife would put out stuff like that.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Henda on January 02, 2013, 05:40:06 PM
If the twat can train at a gym twice a day he can work the fucking parasite


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: OneMoreRep on January 02, 2013, 05:45:41 PM
Just found out that I am in the greater than $450K tax bracket!!! Ran into a fuckin' idiot at the gym @ 5 am this morning. The dude somes up to me (come on???) to tell me he is disabled and has schizophrenia and is "poz". No evidence of psychosis at this time, so I ask why he doesn't want to work, noting this might give him more motivation instead of "sucking off the tit of society." I say get rid of medical disability and Workman's Comp., except in catastropic cirmstances--- no need to raise taxes!!!

Can not believe I am supporting shit like this-- fuck he gets to actually work out twice a day and has access to test and GH!! Entitlement... Umm.

DOC
Lift, fuck, make money

What type of Doctor are you?  I've found that with the exception of surgeons (particularly orthopedic, cardiothoracic, neuro and gastro surgeons), very few medical specialists make above 400K, with the exception of anesthesiologists that can work in plastic surgery offices as well as surgical suites are dermatologists.

Most specialists fall on average between 250-450K (tops) from what I've found.  

What do you do exactly?
"1"

P.S. How do I know those ranges?  About 5 years ago I worked for Deloitte & Touche and we owned the contracts for auditing services to New York and California state(s) biggest private hospitals and would have access to reimbursement and overall compensation rates.  Besides the various types of surgical specialties, Anesthesiologists and dermatologists, no other medical specialists would bring in more than 450K yearly.  Nicorulez, feel free to chime in if you know the answer.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: arce1988 on January 02, 2013, 05:59:49 PM
  Most of the Navy Docs that were with us USMC were homosexual.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: T-rex on January 02, 2013, 06:18:29 PM
Disability social security was created with the best of intentions. If you are physically unable to work due to a permanent heart condition or some other serious medical condition we as a society will take care of you. Same with mental problems. If your mentally retarded adult or have truly incapacitated by schizophrenia we will give you a government check. It is so well intended.

What has happened during the past 4 years is an explosion of people wanting a social security disability check for life every month. Everyone is scamming the system. Want a check for life just get put in a mental hospital for a week and see a shrink one a week for a year. Then for the rest of your life you are gold for food stamps, social security disability checks and housing assistance. Go to the local food pantry and use your check money for a smart phone and booze. Don't get me started on these phony physical problems and seeing people dancing and going to the gym.  

My girl deals with alot of clients milking the system. The other big one they use to get that SSD check is fibromyalgia.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: nicorulez on January 02, 2013, 06:42:32 PM
What type of Doctor are you?  I've found that with the exception of surgeons (particularly orthopedic, cardiothoracic, neuro and gastro surgeons), very few medical specialists make above 400K, with the exception of anesthesiologists that can work in plastic surgery offices as well as surgical suites are dermatologists.

Most specialists fall on average between 250-450K (tops) from what I've found.  

What do you do exactly?
"1"

P.S. How do I know those ranges?  About 5 years ago I worked for Deloitte & Touche and we owned the contracts for auditing services to New York and California state(s) biggest private hospitals and would have access to reimbursement and overall compensation rates.  Besides the various types of surgical specialties, Anesthesiologists and dermatologists, no other medical specialists would bring in more than 450K yearly.  Nicorulez, feel free to chime in if you know the answer.

OMR, I am a f nephrologist. However, unlike the majority of nephrologists my group of 8 docs has over 1000 dialysis patient's and two vascular access centers. We have hired a surgeon and have a partner who is an interventional nephrologist. On average, the group partners are pulling in 600-800K a year...not too shabby. The interventional nephrologist pulled in a cool million. Funny thing is he works the least of all of us, but gets paid very well for his interventions in our access center. Only surgeons in the ballpark are maybe orthopoedics and a select few plastic surgeons. However, retinal surgeons and interventional cardiologists bank a million easy.

Nico


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: nicorulez on January 02, 2013, 06:47:28 PM
What type of Doctor are you?  I've found that with the exception of surgeons (particularly orthopedic, cardiothoracic, neuro and gastro surgeons), very few medical specialists make above 400K, with the exception of anesthesiologists that can work in plastic surgery offices as well as surgical suites are dermatologists.

Most specialists fall on average between 250-450K (tops) from what I've found.  

What do you do exactly?
"1"

P.S. How do I know those ranges?  About 5 years ago I worked for Deloitte & Touche and we owned the contracts for auditing services to New York and California state(s) biggest private hospitals and would have access to reimbursement and overall compensation rates.  Besides the various types of surgical specialties, Anesthesiologists and dermatologists, no other medical specialists would bring in more than 450K yearly.  Nicorulez, feel free to chime in if you know the answer.


OMR,

I will send a private file for you to peruse. Take care.

Nico


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: OneMoreRep on January 02, 2013, 06:52:05 PM
OMR, I am a f nephrologist. However, unlike the majority of nephrologists my group of 8 docs has over 1000 dialysis patient's and two vascular access centers.


That explains the ability for your practice to bill in such a way as to bring in those numbers (6-800K - which is seriously unheard of for nephrologists). Also, I suspect that the vast majority of your patients are either out-of-pocket or private insurance, as medicaid and medicare reimbursements rates have not changed since the 1970's.  

That said, good for you, as starting around 2014, due to the affordable care act, expect that to be slashed by as much as 30-40%, not even considering the Clinton era tax rates (39.5% that will kick in for you STAT - starting this tax season).

We have hired a surgeon and have a partner who is an interventional nephrologist. On average, the group partners are pulling in 600-800K a year...not too shabby.

What's your buy in? How many years before you become partner?

Thanks,
"1"


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: nicorulez on January 02, 2013, 06:54:35 PM
OMR,

You are absolutely correct. The vast majority of physicians do not net a high income. Overhead is high. The wealthiest physicians I know are neurosurgery, retinal s,, urgery, orthopoedics (around 400-500K on average), radiology, interventional cardiology and members from my own practice (not myself although I do fine).

Nico


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: #1 Klaus fan on January 02, 2013, 06:55:19 PM
What would you be worth right now without the people around you? It is the people who support you.

What do you produce anyway? I mean, you got to produce something to be worth something, right? Oh yeah, no. You probably buy and sell stocks with your rich friends all day long.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: nicorulez on January 02, 2013, 07:05:06 PM


That explains the ability for your practice to bill in such a way as to bring in those numbers (6-800K - which is seriously unheard of for nephrologists). Also, I suspect that the vast majority of your patients are either out-of-pocket or private insurance, as medicaid and medicare reimbursements rates have not changed since the 1970's.  

That said, good for you, as starting around 2014, due to the affordable care act, expect that to be slashed by as much as 30-40%, not even considering the Clinton era tax rates (39.5% that will kick in for you STAT - starting this tax season).

What's your buy in? How many years before you become partner?

Thanks,
"1"

OMR,

you are correct if SGR or the Medicare cuts hit I am seriously screwed. The one benefit of Obamacare is that more patient's will be funded in general. A lot of our patient's are unfunded initially and it takes three months on hemodialysis before funding kicks in. Obamacare may bridge that statistic. Yeah, my taxes will be higher, but I prefer that to a cut. So far, we have not been cut but we shall see  ;D. Buy in is around 150K, but I came in five years before the vascular access centers were in existence. I surmise the buy in will be higher now around 300K or so for the guy coming in this year. Three years to partnership.

Nico


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: nicorulez on January 02, 2013, 07:09:15 PM
What would you be worth right now without the people around you? It is the people who support you.

What do you produce anyway? I mean, you got to produce something to be worth something, right? Oh yeah, no. You probably buy and sell stocks with your rich friends all day long.

Klaus

Who are you referring to???? I work 60-70 hours a week. I don't have time to drink lattes and trade stock. Sorry...wrong guy.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: OneMoreRep on January 02, 2013, 07:21:11 PM
OMR,

you are correct if SGR or the Medicare cuts hit I am seriously screwed. The one benefit of Obamacare is that more patient's will be funded in general. A lot of our patient's are unfunded initially and it takes three months on hemodialysis before funding kicks in. Obamacare may bridge that statistic. Yeah, my taxes will be higher, but I prefer that to a cut. So far, we have not been cut but we shall see  ;D. Buy in is around 150K, but I came in five years before the vascular access centers were in existence. I surmise the buy in will be higher now around 300K or so for the guy coming in this year. Three years to partnership.

Nico

Based on industry forecasts, I'd say that by 2018-2020, the only lucrative medical specialists will be orthopedic surgeons (that can still bill for each nail they insert), plastic surgeons, dermatologists (if plastic surgeons haven't picked up the side services derms do) and anesthesiologists that can piggyback off the numerous surgeries the other guys do (assuming that all private insurance companies don't pony up and offer similar insurance to that of the public option - which is just medicare for everyone under 65 to begin with).

Everything else (GI, Cardiac, Nephro, Neuro, Rheuma, Pulmo etc) will probably have to start living at salaries around 200-300K (tops) AND that's if we don't dive head first into truly socialized medicine (universal healthcare - see Taiwan, Israel, Canada etc).

Then again, that's just my opinion as an old CPA, it could very well not turn out that bad.

My best advice to the kiddies in med school, go for those specialties mentioned above and if not yet in med school, consider becoming a nurse anesthetist (those suckers average around 150-250K, never get sued and can moonlight to various hospitals).  As an auditor for the largest academic hospitals in NY city, I always found the crna salaries to be insanely high (with overtime, most were bringing in 250K easy, with no weekends and only working 4-12's).

Another high paying gig, hospital CEO..
"1"


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: nicorulez on January 02, 2013, 07:34:53 PM
OMR,

I am in agreement. In fact, a couple of the local orthopoedics who were banking and lost significant income. They are now either hospital employees or locum tenems (SP ???). I tend to agree that within 5-7 years all physicians except those (not reliant on insurance will be hospital employees. We shall see. Innovative physicians who seek alternative revenue streams may do ok. Can't do straight up medicine anymore. Have to think like a business guy.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: OneMoreRep on January 02, 2013, 07:37:43 PM
OMR,

I am in agreement. In fact, a couple of the local orthopoedics who were banking and lost significant income. They are now either hospital employees or locum tenems (SP ???). I tend to agree that within 5-7 years all physicians except those (not reliant on insurance will be hospital employees. We shall see. Innovative physicians who seek alternative revenue streams may do ok. Can't do straight up medicine anymore. Have to think like a business guy.

...and that (bolded above) is a fucking shame.

"1"


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Coach is Back! on January 02, 2013, 07:47:14 PM
Intresting thread between OMR and Nico. Learning a lot here


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: SF1900 on January 02, 2013, 07:52:20 PM
Devildoc made all his money treating DA.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Radical Plato on January 02, 2013, 08:02:44 PM
This is why doctors and the medical profession have become despised by the mainstream.  Being a doctor used to be considered a good thing, people would respect them and look to them for guidance,  Now they are just arseholes who are only after money and have none of the qualities that traditionally were attributed to a good doctor, compassion, understanding reasonableness, altruism etc etc.  Sadly, the majority of people attracted to the medical profession have a GOD Complex and enjoy some sick sadistic power over others, hardly a combination that a sick patient would be drawn too.  If you are making hundreds of thousands of dollars and living life large and yet you are deeply troubled and resentful of the least amongst us, you have serious issues, it might be time to use that large pay-check for some serious psychiatric intervention.  It's amazing with the money, education and lifestyle you have your headspace is easily rented by a mentally defective poverty stricken gym goer, how sad.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: usmcdevildoc on January 02, 2013, 08:08:11 PM
  Most of the Navy Docs that were with us USMC were homosexual.

Bro I do not know whose service you were in do you? Was with Marines before undergrad and then went back in for Desert Storm-- nonobligated as a doctor. Was with you guys for an additional year as an O5. Was O6 when I got out. Was Battalion Surgeon for about 1500 Marines-- believe me looked and played the part well- thus the O6. Was into nerve agents. Trained at Hopkins-- the Marines loved me bro.

I have nothing derogatory to say about USMC-- great organization-- great people. Whle I may have known a few Corpsmen that may have been gay, so too did I know a few Marines that took it up the ass.

Oh I am a Neurosurg.-- trained at Johns Hopkins, and probably could kick ur ass at a competition. I wouldn't do that bro. You're family. Just try to unload your subconscious homosexual intonations
on someone else bro.

DOC
Lift, fuck, make money


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: usmcdevildoc on January 02, 2013, 08:15:19 PM
This is why doctors and the medical profession have become despised by the mainstream.  Being a doctor used to be considered a good thing, people would respect them and look to them for guidance,  Now they are just arseholes who are only after money and have none of the qualities that traditionally were attributed to a good doctor, compassion, understanding reasonableness, altruism etc etc.  Sadly, the majority of people attracted to the medical profession have a GOD Complex and enjoy some sick sadistic power over others, hardly a combination that a sick patient would be drawn too.  If you are making hundreds of thousands of dollars and living life large and yet you are deeply troubled and resentful of the least amongst us, you have serious issues, it might be time to use that large pay-check for some serious psychiatric intervention.  It's amazing with the money, education and lifestyle you have your headspace is easily rented by a mentally defective poverty stricken gym goer, how sad.

Either you feel "entitled" or jealous as shit man. Get a life ... U need
to hook up with the Marine that seems fixated on fucking someone's ass.  NO HOMO

DOC
Lift, fuck, make money


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: haider on January 02, 2013, 08:15:59 PM
  Most of the Navy Docs that were with us USMC were homosexual.
boooom


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Radical Plato on January 02, 2013, 08:45:27 PM
Either you feel "entitled" or jealous as shit man. Get a life ... U need
to hook up with the Marine that seems fixated on fucking someone's ass.  NO HOMO

DOC
Lift, fuck, make money
Jealous!, you're the one upset at some guy who has found a way to do what he wants with his life all the while you're earning hundreds of thousands of dollars and obviously miserable.  I could never be jealous of someone who has been obviously ENTITLED with the resources to achieve an education and a job that pays him well above the majority of the population and is yet somehow unappreciative and bitter at those who haven't had the PRIVILEGE or the ENTITLEMENTS to reach such a position.  If anything, I feel deeply sorry for you.  You obviously hate your life and are upset at some guy who has what you want, free time to live as he chooses, your excuse that you are somehow supporting him (never mind the millions of other people who pay taxes) and your rejection of his issues is indicative of something deep inside troubling you.

It appears you are projecting, perhaps you secretly have a desire to be free of the responsibilities you know face, the lifestyle that you know have, perhaps you secretly harbour a need to be cared for and looked after, perhaps you want more freedom and a less burdensome lifestyle, so when you see someone who appears to have such things you project your unconscious desires onto him, because to accept them within yourself would cause you too much mental anguish and make it harder to perform your duties.  And because you despise these unconscious desires within yourself you lash out at those who currently living the lifestyle that you claim to detest.  Anyway, good luck with being just one more PROFESSIONAL ARSEHOLE!

Some guy opens up to you about his struggles with life and your only reaction you have is too think "GET A FUCKING JOB YOU SCUMBAG" and then post a thread about it on a body-building forum whining and bitching about it, all the while big noting yourself by talking about how you earn hundreds of thousands of dollars.  What a douchebag, you are obviously raised with a sense of entitlement with Parents middle class money and never had a real struggle in your life.  it is not hard to work out who has the sense of ENTITLEMENT!


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Bad Boy Dazza on January 02, 2013, 09:03:37 PM
When the government stops giving billions of tax payer dollars to other countries for god knows what, then and only then will I worry about the people in this country being helped out. How many Billions of your money is being funneled to Afghan Warlords? African Warlords etc. I'd rather see my tax dollar go to some schitzo who works out twice a day than to some Warlords who kill women and children for fun.

I hate supporting welfare bludgers, but do you really think the o/s spending is welfare?  I always saw it as money spent to get money back.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: SF1900 on January 02, 2013, 09:06:06 PM
Jealous!, you're the one upset at some guy who has found a way to do what he wants with his life all the while you're earning hundreds of thousands of dollars and obviously miserable.  I could never be jealous of someone who has been obviously ENTITLED with the resources to achieve an education and a job that pays him well above the majority of the population and is yet somehow unappreciative and bitter at those who haven't had the PRIVILEGE or the ENTITLEMENTS to reach such a position.  If anything, I feel deeply sorry for you.  You obviously hate your life and are upset at some guy who has what you want, free time to live as he chooses, your excuse that you are somehow supporting him (never mind the millions of other people who pay taxes) and your rejection of his issues is indicative of something deep inside troubling you.

It appears you are projecting, perhaps you secretly have a desire to be free of the responsibilities you know face, the lifestyle that you know have, perhaps you secretly harbour a need to be cared for and looked after, perhaps you want more freedom and a less burdensome lifestyle, so when you see someone who appears to have such things you project your unconscious desires onto him, because to accept them within yourself would cause you too much mental anguish and make it harder to perform your duties.  And because you despise these unconscious desires within yourself you lash out at those who currently living the lifestyle that you claim to detest.  Anyway, good luck with being just one more PROFESSIONAL ARSEHOLE!

Some guy opens up to you about his struggles with life and your only reaction you have is too think "GET A FUCKING JOB YOU SCUMBAG" and then post a thread about it on a body-building forum whining and bitching about it, all the while big noting yourself by talking about how you earn hundreds of thousands of dollars.  What a douchebag, you are obviously raised with a sense of entitlement with Parents middle class money and never had a real struggle in your life.  it is not hard to work out who has the sense of ENTITLEMENT!

Yeah, pretty crappy of him to do that.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: theworm on January 02, 2013, 09:06:35 PM
Guys you can't be jealous of physicians...

I had to go through 13 years of school after high school, my entire 20s was spent studying my ass off, pulling all nighters, hitting the library every Friday and Saturday night while all my friends went out drinking!  And now, in my mid 30 s what do I have?

I do get paid well BUT, I work 70 hours a week, have no life, be on call 24 hours a week for 2 weeks straight, have 160k in student loans.  
On top of that docs get about 12 cents on every dollar charged...
You bill 100, get about 50 from insurance, then 25 of that goes to overhead, then 49.6% of that goes to the gov, leaving you 12 bucks.  
Then every year you find out taxes are going up, reimbursements going down , etc!!!

So yeah, when you hear that a certain doc is making some money realize the extreme time, money energy commitment put in. And yes most of my fellow docs are compassionate.  I often treat about 10 percent of my patients at no charge, do surgery for 90% off if someone has no money, on and on.  Shit, I go into the hospital all the time to see a consult for free!  Yes, free!

So, just because someone is making over 250 k, don't believe Obama that they are evil, they worked DAMN hard and made huge sacrifices to be in that position.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Shockwave on January 02, 2013, 09:09:46 PM
  Most of the Navy Docs that were with us USMC were homosexual.
Lol.
The Corpsmen I knew weren't bad. Although, many of them seemed to love the pedo-stache.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: theworm on January 02, 2013, 09:16:23 PM
E-kul let me explain it to you in simple terms

Lets say you grow tomatoes. You wake up at 5 am and work hard and go farm, take ur time to grow the plants, work endless hours to grow them then go harvest them etc

Meanwhile you neighbor wakes up at noon and watches tv all day and does nothing.

Then winter comes and now your neighbor is hungry.

Your government says to you, you do not deserve all those tomatoes that are rightfully yours.  You now must give half to your neighbor so he can eat.

See the problem?  

True there are some who need a disability check, but I would say 80 percent are milking the system

I think the problem in America right now is there is a complete lack of responsibily.  It's never your fault, someone deserves to give you something, just be lazy and someone will bail you out.  It's getting pathetic!  


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: usmcdevildoc on January 02, 2013, 09:27:11 PM
Jealous!, you're the one upset at some guy who has found a way to do what he wants with his life all the while you're earning hundreds of thousands of dollars and obviously miserable.  I could never be jealous of someone who has been obviously ENTITLED with the resources to achieve an education and a job that pays him well above the majority of the population and is yet somehow unappreciative and bitter at those who haven't had the PRIVILEGE or the ENTITLEMENTS to reach such a position.  If anything, I feel deeply sorry for you.  You obviously hate your life and are upset at some guy who has what you want, free time to live as he chooses, your excuse that you are somehow supporting him (never mind the millions of other people who pay taxes) and your rejection of his issues is indicative of something deep inside troubling you.

Bro-- projecting??? You would never make it as a shrink. This "entitled" clown never was in the military, never did shit for anybody but himself,  and has spent the majority of his life living off of society. We are all supporting him!!! His psych issues were most probably fabricated by one of our outstanding,  dangerous psychiatrists who doesn't speak a word of English and just 'got off the boat so to speak.' While I
can empathize with his "poz" HIV status, it was he who willingly to it up the ass. I had nothing to do with that.

Oh, I am "the shit"!!!

DOC
Lift, fuck, make money  


It appears you are projecting, perhaps you secretly have a desire to be free of the responsibilities you know face, the lifestyle that you know have, perhaps you secretly harbour a need to be cared for and looked after, perhaps you want more freedom and a less burdensome lifestyle, so when you see someone who appears to have such things you project your unconscious desires onto him, because to accept them within yourself would cause you too much mental anguish and make it harder to perform your duties.  And because you despise these unconscious desires within yourself you lash out at those who currently living the lifestyle that you claim to detest.  Anyway, good luck with being just one more PROFESSIONAL ARSEHOLE!

Some guy opens up to you about his struggles with life and your only reaction you have is too think "GET A FUCKING JOB YOU SCUMBAG" and then post a thread about it on a body-building forum whining and bitching about it, all the while big noting yourself by talking about how you earn hundreds of thousands of dollars.  What a douchebag, you are obviously raised with a sense of entitlement with Parents middle class money and never had a real struggle in your life.  it is not hard to work out who has the sense of ENTITLEMENT!


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Radical Plato on January 02, 2013, 09:28:00 PM
Guys you can't be jealous of physicians...

I had to go through 13 years of school after high school, my entire 20s was spent studying my ass off, pulling all nighters, hitting the library every Friday and Saturday night while all my friends went out drinking!  And now, in my mid 30 s what do I have?

I do get paid well BUT, I work 70 hours a week, have no life, be on call 24 hours a week for 2 weeks straight, have 160k in student loans.  
On top of that docs get about 12 cents on every dollar charged...
You bill 100, get about 50 from insurance, then 25 of that goes to overhead, then 49.6% of that goes to the gov, leaving you 12 bucks.  
Then every year you find out taxes are going up, reimbursements going down , etc!!!

So yeah, when you hear that a certain doc is making some money realize the extreme time, money energy commitment put in. And yes most of my fellow docs are compassionate.  I often treat about 10 percent of my patients at no charge, do surgery for 90% off if someone has no money, on and on.  Shit, I go into the hospital all the time to see a consult for free!  Yes, free!

So, just because someone is making over 250 k, don't believe Obama that they are evil, they worked DAMN hard and made huge sacrifices to be in that position.

I have no doubt that doctors and other professionals work hard to get where they are (my Father is a retired Engineer and my Mother a retired Midwife), but their is a lot of support from others that make this possible, starting from the time you are born, this could be in the form of middle class parents, being able to afford better than average education, supportive communities and extended families and a society that makes these things possible for those born into these circumstances too achieve this.  Now if you are FORTUNATE to be in such a situation and happen to make it and end up living well and earning good money and yet still remain unaware of how it wasn't something that you achieved on your OWN, that from the time you were born, others were helping you to reach that point, I think this level of UNAWARENESS is terribly sad, their is nothing worse than an ARROGANT PROFESSIONAL beating their chest as if they are self made men who raised themselves and reached the heights they have.  You can not reach any high level without tremendous support from others, it's that simple.  usmcdevildoc is resentful of others receiving support, yet their is no doubt that he himself has received far more support in his life to reach the level he has (he will deny this, and tell tales of his Zeus like capacities and how he did it all on his own), and yet he seems completely unaware of the hypocrisy of it all or the real reasons he may be reacting in the way that he does to those less fortunate.  And what makes it particularly odious, is that he is in the CARING profession, a position that is best suited to those with an altruistic outlook and caring disposition.  It is sad that someone can earn hundreds of thousands of dollars and yet be resentful of someone living more than likely below the poverty line.  It sounds to me like usmcdevildoc has lived an ENTITLED AND PRIVILEGED existence.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Radical Plato on January 02, 2013, 09:43:06 PM
E-kul let me explain it to you in simple terms

Lets say you grow tomatoes. You wake up at 5 am and work hard and go farm, take ur time to grow the plants, work endless hours to grow them then go harvest them etc

Meanwhile you neighbor wakes up at noon and watches tv all day and does nothing.

Then winter comes and now your neighbor is hungry.

Your government says to you, you do not deserve all those tomatoes that are rightfully yours.  You now must give half to your neighbor so he can eat.

See the problem?  

True there are some who need a disability check, but I would say 80 percent are milking the system

I think the problem in America right now is there is a complete lack of responsibly.  It's never your fault, someone deserves to give you something, just be lazy and someone will bail you out.  It's getting pathetic!  
If I have more than enough tomatoes for myself, I will willingly hand my neighbour any excess.  I don't understand this attitude of  "I'm OK, fuck you jack".  I am well aware of the free rider problem, but studies show that the best possible outcome for oneself is to practice tit for tat, now if someone is taking more than they are giving, statistically they will eventually be worse off in the long run, they may think they are getting a free ride, but this is short lived, as others soon con on to what they are doing and stop co-operating with them.  Even if 80% are milking the system, do you really think they are in a better position than a doctor earning nearly half a million dollars a year and all the associated benefits that come with that, if a human being is relegated to having to get by in such a way, he is in poor shape indeed.  If you look at all the financial benefits that rich companies and the wealthy receive from the Government, it far exceeds what the poorest are taking from the system.  This is what the wealthy want others to believe, that the poor are the problem, and not the greedy who are manipulating the system so that they stay wealthy and the poor stay poor.  The wealthy are far and away a greater burden to society than the poor people, the poor need very little to get by, the wealthy consume far more resources, pollute far more and more often than not are far less generous.  

Here in Australia, the countries richest person is a fat poltergeist by the name of Gina Rinehart, she is also the worlds wealthiest woman, she inherited every cent she has from her mega rich father, she has never had to suffer or work very hard, yet she constantly criticises the poor and makes out like she earned every penny she has.  She claims the poor people are jealous of her and that they should spend less time drinking and socializing and more time working if they want to be mega rich like her.  She is someone who has never had to earn a living and had the good luck of having a head start of inheriting a fortune from her father and of being able to bully politicians by virtue of this inherited wealth. The whole thing is ludicrous, now, that's a REAL sense of ENTITLEMENT, and most of the wealthy suffer from this in some way or another, they seem completely oblivious to their fortune and because of their Ignorance, attribute it to themselves.  It really is quite perverse and for those who aren't raised in such WEALTHY environments (most of us), it is hard to understand how someone could believe that they earned such wealth when in fact it was literally HANDED TO THEM.

(http://i.qkme.me/3qz4xy.jpg)


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on January 02, 2013, 09:45:38 PM
I hate supporting welfare bludgers, but do you really think the o/s spending is welfare?  I always saw it as money spent to get money back.

The amount of people that shouldn't be working is fcuking staggering. What I mean is they are totally disruptive in the workplace. The brain is the 3rd largest organ in the human body and most doctors know next to nothing about it. We all see bums and shit walking down the street talking to invisible people. As a society we don't need these people working side by side with people who are already on edge. These mentally ill people don't need doctors and people in the medical field bitching about their taxes going to support them.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Bad Boy Dazza on January 02, 2013, 10:32:20 PM
That theory does not hold true on a governmental level.  They just keep handing the money out to the cheats.

now if someone is taking more than they are giving, statistically they will eventually be worse off in the long run, they may think they are getting a free ride, but this is short lived, as others soon con on to what they are doing and stop co-operating with them.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Bad Boy Dazza on January 02, 2013, 10:33:07 PM
Sure but these ones who are REALLY mentally ill are another story.


The amount of people that shouldn't be working is fcuking staggering. What I mean is they are totally disruptive in the workplace. The brain is the 3rd largest organ in the human body and most doctors know next to nothing about it. We all see bums and shit walking down the street talking to invisible people. As a society we don't need these people working side by side with people who are already on edge. These mentally ill people don't need doctors and people in the medical field bitching about their taxes going to support them.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: garebear on January 02, 2013, 10:41:26 PM
Doc, thanks for signing each one of your posts at the bottom.

I have severe neck problems that don't allow me to look left and see the avatar of the poster, so all of that work is really paying off.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: jwb on January 02, 2013, 10:42:14 PM
Doctors aren't the problem, lawyers are.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Radical Plato on January 02, 2013, 10:44:36 PM
That theory does not hold true on a governmental level.  They just keep handing the money out to the cheats.

It is not the poor that are cheating the system, it is the RICH, and the reason you believe the poor are the problem, because the RICH own the MEDIA and they keep telling you that the poor are the problem, it is a fantastic distraction from the reality that the RICH are abusing the system and keeping the majority locked in a no win cycle.  Do you really think that someone who is receiving welfare and living below the poverty line is better of than those who make good livings, have secure housing and the resources to have all their needs met. D you not see the hypocrisy and absolute ridiculousness in suggesting to not financially help the poor but it is OK to financially aid the MEGA RICH.   How many billions did your government GIVE to the ELITES when their banks failed due to their GREED and CORRUPTION?  Don't be such a sucker, the Elites have used their power and influence to sell their PROPAGANDA that they now have the very people they have oppressed going to bat for them.  It really is quite mind boggling and sad when you think about it.  If you were to research how much money goes to the elites as opposed to how much goes to the poor, you would find it is the RICH who are cheating the system, and not those just trying to survive.

Interesting tax breaks for the wealthy - talk about a lifestyle:

$11.5 billion per-year cost of recent tax cuts for millionaires' estates;
$8.9 billion 10-year cost of allowing mortgage interest deduction for vacation homes;
$6.7 billion cost of "estate planning" techniques used by wealthy to avoid taxes;
$5.2 billion FY 2011 cost of removing limit of itemized deductions for high-income taxpayers;
$4.1 billion cost of tax breaks for off-shore operations of U.S. financial companies;
$2.5 billion tax breaks for oil companies (write-offs for drilling and well costs);
$4.9 billion cost of extending alcohol fuel tax breaks;
$2.3 billion FY 2012 tax loophole for managers of hedge funds and private equity funds;
$312 million 10-year cost of allowing companies to write off punitive damages;
$303 million cost of special breaks for the timber industry;
$42 billion FY 2012 one-year cost of extending Bush tax cuts for top tax brackets.

How the 400 wealthiest Americans are now richer than the bottom 50 percent of citizens - and it's not hard to understand why people are protesting


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on January 02, 2013, 10:57:05 PM
It is not the poor that are cheating the system, it is the RICH, and the reason you believe the poor are the problem, because the RICH own the MEDIA and they keep telling you that the poor are the problem, it is a fantastic distraction from the reality that the RICH are abusing the system and keeping the majority locked in a no win cycle.  Do you really think that someone who is receiving welfare and living below the poverty line is better of than those who make good livings, have secure housing and the resources to have all their needs met. D you not see the hypocrisy and absolute ridiculousness in suggesting to not financially help the poor but it is OK to financially aid the MEGA RICH.   How many billions did your government GIVE to the ELITES when their banks failed due to their GREED and CORRUPTION?  Don't be such a sucker, the Elites have used their power and influence to sell their PROPAGANDA that they now have the very people they have oppressed going to bat for them.  It really is quite mind boggling and sad when you think about it.  If you were to research how much money goes to the elites as opposed to how much goes to the poor, you would find it is the RICH who are cheating the system, and not those just trying to survive.

Interesting tax breaks for the wealthy - talk about a lifestyle:

$11.5 billion per-year cost of recent tax cuts for millionaires' estates;
$8.9 billion 10-year cost of allowing mortgage interest deduction for vacation homes;
$6.7 billion cost of "estate planning" techniques used by wealthy to avoid taxes;
$5.2 billion FY 2011 cost of removing limit of itemized deductions for high-income taxpayers;
$4.1 billion cost of tax breaks for off-shore operations of U.S. financial companies;
$2.5 billion tax breaks for oil companies (write-offs for drilling and well costs);
$4.9 billion cost of extending alcohol fuel tax breaks;
$2.3 billion FY 2012 tax loophole for managers of hedge funds and private equity funds;
$312 million 10-year cost of allowing companies to write off punitive damages;
$303 million cost of special breaks for the timber industry;
$42 billion FY 2012 one-year cost of extending Bush tax cuts for top tax brackets.

How the 400 wealthiest Americans are now richer than the bottom 50 percent of citizens - and it's not hard to understand why people are protesting

Most people who claim bankruptcy end up struggling for some time. Donald Trump has declared bankruptcy 4 different times with 4 of his companies. And because he never claimed personal bankruptcy, he gets a pass in the eyes of a lot of people.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Bad Boy Dazza on January 03, 2013, 12:56:10 AM
Wrong wrong wrong.  I own my own home and work but live among these vermin.  I don't get my info off telly.

It is not the poor that are cheating the system, it is the RICH, and the reason you believe the poor are the problem, because the RICH own the MEDIA and they keep telling you that the poor are the problem,


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Bad Boy Dazza on January 03, 2013, 12:58:47 AM
Hard working honest people getting ripped off by the system, YES.  But not the welfare cheat scum, not them, they deserve to live on rice and water.

It is not the poor that are cheating the system, it is the RICH, and the reason you believe the poor are the problem, because the RICH own the MEDIA and they keep telling you that the poor are the problem, it is a fantastic distraction from the reality that the RICH are abusing the system and keeping the majority locked in a no win cycle.  Do you really think that someone who is receiving welfare and living below the poverty line is better of than those who make good livings, have secure housing and the resources to have all their needs met. D you not see the hypocrisy and absolute ridiculousness in suggesting to not financially help the poor but it is OK to financially aid the MEGA RICH.   How many billions did your government GIVE to the ELITES when their banks failed due to their GREED and CORRUPTION?  Don't be such a sucker, the Elites have used their power and influence to sell their PROPAGANDA that they now have the very people they have oppressed going to bat for them.  It really is quite mind boggling and sad when you think about it.  If you were to research how much money goes to the elites as opposed to how much goes to the poor, you would find it is the RICH who are cheating the system, and not those just trying to survive.

Interesting tax breaks for the wealthy - talk about a lifestyle:

$11.5 billion per-year cost of recent tax cuts for millionaires' estates;
$8.9 billion 10-year cost of allowing mortgage interest deduction for vacation homes;
$6.7 billion cost of "estate planning" techniques used by wealthy to avoid taxes;
$5.2 billion FY 2011 cost of removing limit of itemized deductions for high-income taxpayers;
$4.1 billion cost of tax breaks for off-shore operations of U.S. financial companies;
$2.5 billion tax breaks for oil companies (write-offs for drilling and well costs);
$4.9 billion cost of extending alcohol fuel tax breaks;
$2.3 billion FY 2012 tax loophole for managers of hedge funds and private equity funds;
$312 million 10-year cost of allowing companies to write off punitive damages;
$303 million cost of special breaks for the timber industry;
$42 billion FY 2012 one-year cost of extending Bush tax cuts for top tax brackets.

How the 400 wealthiest Americans are now richer than the bottom 50 percent of citizens - and it's not hard to understand why people are protesting


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: jwb on January 03, 2013, 01:01:40 AM
I have lived in both Australia and the USA and trust me Australia is better off having their dole and benefits bludgers than the situation the USA faces.

The USA winds up spending more money on putting people in prison and policing their cities per capita than Australia does in giving their slackers enough money to live on.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Bad Boy Dazza on January 03, 2013, 01:15:20 AM
Yes good point, one that I have considered.  We basically pay the scum to behave.

I have lived in both Australia and the USA and trust me Australia is better off having their dole and benefits bludgers that the situation that the USA faces.

The USA winds up spending more money on putting people in prison and policing their cities per capita than Australia does in giving their slackers enough money to live on.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: jwb on January 03, 2013, 01:22:05 AM
Yes good point, one that I have considered.  We basically pay the scum to behave.

Also, if America had a pub on every corner and millions of pokies it would be like the Detroit in Robocop.

Australia does pretty well considering...


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: NordicNerd on January 03, 2013, 01:22:33 AM
This is why doctors and the medical profession have become despised by the mainstream.  Being a doctor used to be considered a good thing, people would respect them and look to them for guidance,  Now they are just arseholes who are only after money and have none of the qualities that traditionally were attributed to a good doctor, compassion, understanding reasonableness, altruism etc etc.  Sadly, the majority of people attracted to the medical profession have a GOD Complex and enjoy some sick sadistic power over others, hardly a combination that a sick patient would be drawn too. ...

I am a PhD and full professor working with MDs every day with research in neuroimaging and neuropsychology. My perception is that MDs are like any other person regarding personality, but the power they have in a hospital setting allows those with bad personality traits to exercise those traits without repercussions. Hence, doctors may be perceived in the way you claim. Less powerful employees cannot behave like like MDs.

Further, MDs are not greedier than others imo. However, it is well known that how content one is  with ones earnings is mostly related to the perception of what those one compare oneself with earn. The problems in this regard is that there is such a huge difference in earnings among MDs, at least here in Norway. Thus, the standard neurologist in a hospital here earns less than half of what a MD in private practice earns. This leads to jealousy and greed, as there is a perception of being treated unfairly, although almost all MDs earn more than the average person.

NN



Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Nomad on January 03, 2013, 01:23:37 AM
This is why doctors and the medical profession have become despised by the mainstream.  Being a doctor used to be considered a good thing, people would respect them and look to them for guidance,  Now they are just arseholes who are only after money and have none of the qualities that traditionally were attributed to a good doctor, compassion, understanding reasonableness, altruism etc etc.  Sadly, the majority of people attracted to the medical profession have a GOD Complex and enjoy some sick sadistic power over others, hardly a combination that a sick patient would be drawn too. If you are making hundreds of thousands of dollars and living life large and yet you are deeply troubled and resentful of the least amongst us, you have serious issues, it might be time to use that large pay-check for some serious psychiatric intervention.  It's amazing with the money, education and lifestyle you have your headspace is easily rented by a mentally defective poverty stricken gym goer, how sad.

Once again, nice projecting jackass. Betting $10 you are not going to be able to prove that in any way.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: NordicNerd on January 03, 2013, 01:30:14 AM
I have no doubt that doctors and other professionals work hard to get where they are (my Father is a retired Engineer and my Mother a retired Midwife), but their is a lot of support from others that make this possible, starting from the time you are born, this could be in the form of middle class parents, being able to afford better than average education, supportive communities and extended families and a society that makes these things possible for those born into these circumstances too achieve this.  Now if you are FORTUNATE to be in such a situation and happen to make it and end up living well and earning good money and yet still remain unaware of how it wasn't something that you achieved on your OWN, that from the time you were born, others were helping you to reach that point, I think this level of UNAWARENESS is terribly sad, ...

Perhaps it is like that in the US. Here in Norway, in Oslo, the second-generation immigrants from Pakistan are over-represented among the medical students. Why? They are very dedicated in high school and work hard.

In general, I have a very favorable impression of the MDs I have met, as hard-working, responsible people. Good genes regarding intellect, a stable family that fosters good work-ethics may be required, but how does this differ from other areas in life?

The average white MD could never win a bodybuilding contest due to genetics, just like Ronnie Coleman probably would struggle to become a PhD/MD (admittedly based on a superficial impression from his videos). Thats life- you are dealt a set of genes and life-cirumstances that open some possibilities and closes others.

NN


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: garebear on January 03, 2013, 02:15:29 AM
E-kul let me explain it to you in simple terms

Lets say you grow tomatoes. You wake up at 5 am and work hard and go farm, take ur time to grow the plants, work endless hours to grow them then go harvest them etc

Meanwhile you neighbor wakes up at noon and watches tv all day and does nothing.

Then winter comes and now your neighbor is hungry.

Your government says to you, you do not deserve all those tomatoes that are rightfully yours.  You now must give half to your neighbor so he can eat.

See the problem?  

True there are some who need a disability check, but I would say 80 percent are milking the system

I think the problem in America right now is there is a complete lack of responsibily.  It's never your fault, someone deserves to give you something, just be lazy and someone will bail you out.  It's getting pathetic!  
Thanks for using that analogy. I would never have understood it otherwise.

I have trouble understanding big, city slicker ideas, but if you put them in terms of tomatoes I'm A OK.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Griffith on January 03, 2013, 02:19:35 AM
Do you really want schizophrenics and people with mental illnesses in the work-place....?


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: garebear on January 03, 2013, 02:20:08 AM
Perhaps it is like that in the US. Here in Norway, in Oslo, the second-generation immigrants from Pakistan are over-represented among the medical students. Why? They are very dedicated in high school and work hard.

In general, I have a very favorable impression of the MDs I have met, as hard-working, responsible people. Good genes regarding intellect, a stable family that fosters good work-ethics may be required, but how does this differ from other areas in life?

The average white MD could never win a bodybuilding contest due to genetics, just like Ronnie Coleman probably would struggle to become a PhD/MD (admittedly based on a superficial impression from his videos). Thats life- you are dealt a set of genes and life-cirumstances that open some possibilities and closes others.

NN
Could you put this in tomato analogy form please?

I'm having trouble understanding.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Radical Plato on January 03, 2013, 02:48:42 AM
The whole point is, if you are fortunate enough to earn a good living and have come from a supportive and stable family environment and your standard of living is high, that's great, but don't think this happened in a vacuum and it has to do with some superior work ethic or attribute that you have, you are the product of a complex set of circumstances that enabled this to come to fruition, many, many people contributed to the individuals success.  To then attack the most vulnerable people in the community and dehumanise them because you feel they don't live up to some deal that you gave created in your mind is the saddest part of all.  Here an individual is, making hundreds of thousands of dollars, obviously living a very comfortable middle class existence, and yet he holds such hatred and contempt for those who haven't been as fortunate as him, who suffer more in one day, than he may ever experience in a year.  I honestly believe, that such a person is even more pitiful than the mentally ill person he holds such contempt and disgust for.  The mentally ill guy can be helped, the wealthy doctor on the other hand is beyond  help.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: NordicNerd on January 03, 2013, 02:55:07 AM
The whole point is, if you are fortunate enough to earn a good living and have come from a supportive and stable family environment and your standard of living is high, that's great, but don't think this happened in a vacuum and it has to do with some superior work ethic or attribute that you have, you are the product of a complex set of circumstances that enabled this to come to fruition, many, many people contributed to the individuals success.  To then attack the most vulnerable people in the community and dehumanise them because you feel they don't live up to some deal that you gave created in your mind is the saddest part of all.  Here an individual is, making hundreds of thousands of dollars, obviously living a very comfortable middle class existence, and yet he holds such hatred and contempt for those who haven't been as fortunate as him, who suffer more in one day, than he may ever experience in a year.  I honestly believe, that such a person is even more pitiful than the mentally ill person he holds such contempt and disgust for.  The mentally ill guy can be helped, the wealthy doctor on the other hand is beyond  help.

You have read Rawls? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rawls

NN


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: NordicNerd on January 03, 2013, 02:57:24 AM
Could you put this in tomato analogy form please?

I'm having trouble understanding.

Sure: Some tomatoes are small, others are big, as a result of genetic and environmental interaction. This determines what they can be used for- eaten whole or be chopped to pieces. Shit happens and and the tomatoes should accept fate.

NN


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Radical Plato on January 03, 2013, 02:59:10 AM
Once again, nice projecting jackass. Betting $10 you are not going to be able to prove that in any way.

Decades spent around nurses and my own personal experience have convinced me that Doctors have a GOD Complex.  It is not just me who thinks this, this idea that doctors think they are GOD has been around for a while now and is a common social stigma attached to Doctors.  Pretty common perception of doctors these days.  Essentially, you could replace General Practitoners with a vending Machine with an Internet Connection, type in your symptoms and the vending machine pumps out the requisite drug.  No other professional gets so little results than Doctors do, they soon realise that they help virtually NO ONE and are essentially glorified drug pushers.  Surgeons and a few other medical professionals may be an exception, but they also sometimes cause more harm than good.  If the medical profession was any good, their wouldn't be tens of millions of perpetually SICK people.  The medical Profession is just another MONOPOLY that creates more SICKNESS than it heals.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Radical Plato on January 03, 2013, 03:05:30 AM
You have read Rawls? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rawls

NN

I have never heard of Rawls, but I just quickly checked the link you posted, I will check him out, seems like an interesting man.  Must of my opinions come from gut feelings, but I do read a lot, and I am constantly evolving. As a younger man, I read a lot about Buddhism and took it quite seriously, I was an idealist and fully believed in the whole idea of minimising suffering of sentient beings.  I have since become jaded by life and now question a lot of views I held dear many years ago, I think Buddhism made me soft and it has been a hard ideal to shake, but I can't help that being willing to help those less fortunate is an important human trait, no matter how much they disgust you.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Nomad on January 03, 2013, 03:31:20 AM
Decades spent around nurses and my own personal experience have convinced me that Doctors have a GOD Complex.  It is not just me who thinks this, this idea that doctors think they are GOD has been around for a while now and is a common social stigma attached to Doctors.  Pretty common perception of doctors these days.  Essentially, you could replace General Practitoners with a vending Machine with an Internet Connection, type in your symptoms and the vending machine pumps out the requisite drug.  No other professional gets so little results than Doctors do, they soon realise that they help virtually NO ONE and are essentially glorified drug pushers.  Surgeons and a few other medical professionals may be an exception, but they also sometimes cause more harm than good.  If the medical profession was any good, their wouldn't be tens of millions of perpetually SICK people.  The medical Profession is just another MONOPOLY that creates more SICKNESS than it heals.

Ok, but once again this is just your opinion. There is a vast difference between individual opinion and a fact.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Bad Boy Dazza on January 03, 2013, 03:31:38 AM
Muslim Cleric on Welfare for 19 years in Australia while plotting Jihad on the Country!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7MX909rkWA



Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: garebear on January 03, 2013, 04:07:32 AM
Muslim Cleric on Welfare for 19 years in Australia while plotting Jihad on the Country!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7MX909rkWA


Gonna need that in tomato analogy form, bro.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Radical Plato on January 03, 2013, 04:10:37 AM
HA HA Doctors GOD Love them, their megalomania is always good for a laugh.  Here is a Youtube clip of Art imitating LIFE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUOmRgYAc1o


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Griffith on January 03, 2013, 04:22:19 AM
Decades spent around nurses and my own personal experience have convinced me that Doctors have a GOD Complex.  It is not just me who thinks this, this idea that doctors think they are GOD has been around for a while now and is a common social stigma attached to Doctors.  Pretty common perception of doctors these days.  Essentially, you could replace General Practitoners with a vending Machine with an Internet Connection, type in your symptoms and the vending machine pumps out the requisite drug.  No other professional gets so little results than Doctors do, they soon realise that they help virtually NO ONE and are essentially glorified drug pushers.  Surgeons and a few other medical professionals may be an exception, but they also sometimes cause more harm than good.  If the medical profession was any good, their wouldn't be tens of millions of perpetually SICK people.  The medical Profession is just another MONOPOLY that creates more SICKNESS than it heals.

I tend to agree with you here on some points.

But I've met some genuinely good doctors too.

But one almost ruined my life by suggesting surgery I don't even need.....and then another saved me. So it depends really....


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: theworm on January 03, 2013, 05:46:21 AM
I have no doubt that doctors and other professionals work hard to get where they are (my Father is a retired Engineer and my Mother a retired Midwife), but their is a lot of support from others that make this possible, starting from the time you are born, this could be in the form of middle class parents, being able to afford better than average education, supportive communities and extended families and a society that makes these things possible for those born into these circumstances too achieve this.  Now if you are FORTUNATE to be in such a situation and happen to make it and end up living well and earning good money and yet still remain unaware of how it wasn't something that you achieved on your OWN, that from the time you were born, others were helping you to reach that point, I think this level of UNAWARENESS is terribly sad, their is nothing worse than an ARROGANT PROFESSIONAL beating their chest as if they are self made men who raised themselves and reached the heights they have.  You can not reach any high level without tremendous support from others, it's that simple.  usmcdevildoc is resentful of others receiving support, yet their is no doubt that he himself has received far more support in his life to reach the level he has (he will deny this, and tell tales of his Zeus like capacities and how he did it all on his own), and yet he seems completely unaware of the hypocrisy of it all or the real reasons he may be reacting in the way that he does to those less fortunate.  And what makes it particularly odious, is that he is in the CARING profession, a position that is best suited to those with an altruistic outlook and caring disposition.  It is sad that someone can earn hundreds of thousands of dollars and yet be resentful of someone living more than likely below the poverty line.  It sounds to me like usmcdevildoc has lived an ENTITLED AND PRIVILEGED existence.

Ok, my dad dies when I was 7.  My mom raised 3 kids while working.  My family is really small and we had no money, I put myself through school with student loans.  Did not receive much help from anyone, just busted my ass hard.  So what you just said could not be more inaccurate.  Nice try.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Griffith on January 03, 2013, 05:52:13 AM
I'm not a communist but I do find it amusing that in East Germany a doctor used to only earn slightly more than a bricklayer.
A salesperson/receptionist slightly less than a manual worker.

Got to do the job for the love of your fellow man and humanity  ;D


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: theworm on January 03, 2013, 05:52:28 AM
This thread is the reason America is in decline...

Bash and make those who are successful evil, award the have nots and leaches on society.

Amazing.  Obama and the dems and libs have u all brainwashed


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Radical Plato on January 03, 2013, 06:01:00 AM
Ok, my dad dies when I was 7.  My mom raised 3 kids while working.  My family is really small and we had no money, I put myself through school with student loans.  Did not receive much help from anyone, just busted my ass hard.  So what you just said could not be more inaccurate.  Nice try.
You go on to say you received student loans and then claim you didn't receive much help from anyone.   Your Mum sacrificed her own needs and desires to bust her guts helping you to make it to where you are, hardly not much help from anyone.  You sound like the typical unappreciative SPOILT brat who to indulge his own LARGE EGO manifests a story how nobody helped you, and it was the power of your unique determination and attitude that got you were you are.  Although, that story might comfort you, it is hardly close to the truth.  Keep believing you have some unique ability to pull yourself up from your bootstraps, but if you look deeply, you will find that their is a complex web of others supporting you to help you realise your goals. It's called GOOD FORTUNE, learn to appreciate it.  Lets hope you were studying the ARTS, because Intelligence isn't your strong suit.  The problem is, you don't know how to look deeply into the circumstances of your life and what has made it possible, NICE TRY THOUGH!  ;D


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Radical Plato on January 03, 2013, 06:12:33 AM
This thread is the reason America is in decline...

Bash and make those who are successful evil, award the have nots and leaches on society.

Amazing.  Obama and the dems and libs have u all brainwashed
You have it the wrong way round, this thread is about the HAVES who are successful bashing on the the downtrodden and the HAVE NOTS.  If the successful want to be praised for their efforts, they could practice being decent civilised human beings and realising it is more to do with GOOD FORTUNE that sees the so called successful as well off and nothing to do with some unique work ethic.  Success is like cultivating a garden, you have to create the right environment for good growth to happen, it is a complex mix of fertile soil, adequate water and sunshine and a host of other factors.  if these conditions aren't met, their is poor results.  And unfortunately, not everybody has been exposed to the right conditions for the best results to occur.  And for the record, America is in decline because it lacks altruistic human qualities, it encourages individual greed at the expense of the community and sees nothing wrong with attacking those that are weaker than them, essentially it is a NATION comprised of large groups of Individuals who are complete arseholes, people who aren't good quality community minded people and whose only concern is their immediate individual needs and concerns.  America is in decline because they are morally bankrupt, lack self awareness and are extremely selfish.  And for a country full of religion, they appear to be the most spiritually bankrupt country on Earth.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Krankenstein on January 03, 2013, 07:02:15 AM
Guys you can't be jealous of physicians...

I had to go through 13 years of school after high school, my entire 20s was spent studying my ass off, pulling all nighters, hitting the library every Friday and Saturday night while all my friends went out drinking!  And now, in my mid 30 s what do I have?

I do get paid well BUT, I work 70 hours a week, have no life, be on call 24 hours a week for 2 weeks straight, have 160k in student loans.  
On top of that docs get about 12 cents on every dollar charged...
You bill 100, get about 50 from insurance, then 25 of that goes to overhead, then 49.6% of that goes to the gov, leaving you 12 bucks.
 
Then every year you find out taxes are going up, reimbursements going down , etc!!!

So yeah, when you hear that a certain doc is making some money realize the extreme time, money energy commitment put in. And yes most of my fellow docs are compassionate.  I often treat about 10 percent of my patients at no charge, do surgery for 90% off if someone has no money, on and on.  Shit, I go into the hospital all the time to see a consult for free!  Yes, free!

So, just because someone is making over 250 k, don't believe Obama that they are evil, they worked DAMN hard and made huge sacrifices to be in that position.


That right there is something that most do not understand.  There is no congruence between insurance companies and what is paid.  In fact, here is an example:

BCBS in Illinois will reimburse at $36/unit (15-minute times) of physical therapy.  No managing company to deal with, no pre-authorization bullshit, nothing

Humana will reimburse you at $6.33 for the same thing.  Their managing company is Healthways.  You fill out your pre-auth form and it takes 2 - 4 business days for them to get back to you.  You request 12 visits, they tell you the patient needs 3.  The patient gets pissed when the care they need is not available to them due to this process even though they pay their premium every month. 

So, when someone gets treated (ex: Humana patient) - that hour of therapy they do (actually 53 minutes) is only reimbursed at $25.32.  Personal trainers make more than that.  Yet, the persons premium is through the roof!  Now, add to the $25 my CMT code for $26 and thats just a paltry $51.  Oh, wait...I forgot...the person also has a 30% coinsurance.  Sooooo...thats $35.70 I get a nice check for.  Then I have to take my overhead out of that.  Guess what I made from that patient?  About $15.  Yep, Ferrari here I come.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: BigCyp on January 03, 2013, 07:38:36 AM
OMR knows a lot about cocks and docs that's for sure!


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Griffith on January 03, 2013, 07:56:43 AM
You go on to say you received student loans and then claim you didn't receive much help from anyone.   Your Mum sacrificed her own needs and desires to bust her guts helping you to make it to where you are, hardly not much help from anyone.  You sound like the typical unappreciative SPOILT brat who to indulge his own LARGE EGO manifests a story how nobody helped you, and it was the power of your unique determination and attitude that got you were you are.  Although, that story might comfort you, it is hardly close to the truth.  Keep believing you have some unique ability to pull yourself up from your bootstraps, but if you look deeply, you will find that their is a complex web of others supporting you to help you realise your goals. It's called GOOD FORTUNE, learn to appreciate it.  Lets hope you were studying the ARTS, because Intelligence isn't your strong suit.  The problem is, you don't know how to look deeply into the circumstances of your life and what has made it possible, NICE TRY THOUGH!  ;D

The ego is the defence mechanism which protects us from reality by creating an illusion to make the reality seem better or how we want it to be ;D


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: shootfighter1 on January 03, 2013, 08:05:26 AM
The younger generations need to examine the question of who gets government support/welfare because the number of working people are shrinking compared to the # of people receiving assistance.  This is and will increasingly be a real problem.  There is also a disincentive to work.  Penn government reported on a female mom with 2 kids being better off on assistance than working a job making 40+K per year.  This is not the intent.

I believe able bodied people should only ever get temporary assistance.  We have a responsibility to take care of our sick, disabled, elderly and veterans.  


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: OneMoreRep on January 03, 2013, 08:08:14 AM
OMR knows a lot about cocks and docs that's for sure!

That sir is true.

I can tell you what the vast majority of doctors "truly" make based off of their specialties due to my time in accounting years back.

That said, socialized medicine ::obamacare:: WILL be changing all of this very soon.

The days of doctors benefiting from professional autonomy, societal prestige and high salaries are steadily eroding as the government sees it fit to rob Peter in order to pay Paul.

It's the way our economy is heading and sadly seems inevitable at this point.

Like I said earlier in this thread, with the exception of certain surgical specialties, the vast majority (90%) of doctors will start making between 200-300K.

I don't agree with that.

"1"


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: BigCyp on January 03, 2013, 08:14:59 AM
I think you would be a good doctor OMR.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: OneMoreRep on January 03, 2013, 08:23:13 AM
I think you would be a good doctor OMR.

Thank you very much for your vote of confidence, my dear friend.

The feeling is mutual, as I feel that you are one of the most talented members on this site.

While I fancy myself as a part time proctologist, my true calling is in the realm of finance.  It's proven to be the last bastion of lucrative business.  Regardless of the state of the economy, we continue to make money.

"1"


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: nicorulez on January 03, 2013, 08:42:49 AM
Guys you can't be jealous of physicians...

I had to go through 13 years of school after high school, my entire 20s was spent studying my ass off, pulling all nighters, hitting the library every Friday and Saturday night while all my friends went out drinking!  And now, in my mid 30 s what do I have?

I do get paid well BUT, I work 70 hours a week, have no life, be on call 24 hours a week for 2 weeks straight, have 160k in student loans.  
On top of that docs get about 12 cents on every dollar charged...
You bill 100, get about 50 from insurance, then 25 of that goes to overhead, then 49.6% of that goes to the gov, leaving you 12 bucks.  
Then every year you find out taxes are going up, reimbursements going down , etc!!!

So yeah, when you hear that a certain doc is making some money realize the extreme time, money energy commitment put in. And yes most of my fellow docs are compassionate.  I often treat about 10 percent of my patients at no charge, do surgery for 90% off if someone has no money, on and on.  Shit, I go into the hospital all the time to see a consult for free!  Yes, free!

So, just because someone is making over 250 k, don't believe Obama that they are evil, they worked DAMN hard and made huge sacrifices to be in that position.


Good point. BTW, I am the only physician in my area who sees all comers...Medicare, Medicaid, Commercial insurance, and no pays. I work out payment with no-pays for 10-20 bucks a visit including consultation. I lose money, but it is the right thing to do. Don't give me that shit E-Kul that the majority of physicians are entitled assholes. The majority are good people. Of course, there are a few bad seeds, but lawyers are infinitely more assholish than docs. Compassion runs deep in most physicians.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: oldtimer1 on January 03, 2013, 08:59:02 AM
Based on industry forecasts, I'd say that by 2018-2020, the only lucrative medical specialists will be orthopedic surgeons (that can still bill for each nail they insert), plastic surgeons, dermatologists (if plastic surgeons haven't picked up the side services derms do) and anesthesiologists that can piggyback off the numerous surgeries the other guys do (assuming that all private insurance companies don't pony up and offer similar insurance to that of the public option - which is just medicare for everyone under 65 to begin with).

Everything else (GI, Cardiac, Nephro, Neuro, Rheuma, Pulmo etc) will probably have to start living at salaries around 200-300K (tops) AND that's if we don't dive head first into truly socialized medicine (universal healthcare - see Taiwan, Israel, Canada etc).

Then again, that's just my opinion as an old CPA, it could very well not turn out that bad.

My best advice to the kiddies in med school, go for those specialties mentioned above and if not yet in med school, consider becoming a nurse anesthetist (those suckers average around 150-250K, never get sued and can moonlight to various hospitals).  As an auditor for the largest academic hospitals in NY city, I always found the crna salaries to be insanely high (with overtime, most were bringing in 250K easy, with no weekends and only working 4-12's).

Another high paying gig, hospital CEO..
"1"

Gastroenterology doctors make big bucks too. If they belong to a group they own the same day operation facility where they do the endo's. Every patient gets a upper and lower endo. My group owns the lab too.  When I had stomach problems the tests alone were close to 20K. One doctor in the practice drove to work in a $200K car.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Griffith on January 03, 2013, 09:04:00 AM
That sir is true.

I can tell you what the vast majority of doctors "truly" make based off of their specialties due to my time in accounting years back.

That said, socialized medicine ::obamacare:: WILL be changing all of this very soon.

The days of doctors benefiting from professional autonomy, societal prestige and high salaries are steadily eroding as the government sees it fit to rob Peter in order to pay Paul.

It's the way our economy is heading and sadly seems inevitable at this point.

Like I said earlier in this thread, with the exception of certain surgical specialties, the vast majority (90%) of doctors will start making between 200-300K.

I don't agree with that.

"1"

America will probably eventually become a lot more like most European countries, almost inevitable really.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: oldtimer1 on January 03, 2013, 09:12:39 AM
Good point. BTW, I am the only physician in my area who sees all comers...Medicare, Medicaid, Commercial insurance, and no pays. I work out payment with no-pays for 10-20 bucks a visit including consultation. I lose money, but it is the right thing to do. Don't give me that shit E-Kul that the majority of physicians are entitled assholes. The majority are good people. Of course, there are a few bad seeds, but lawyers are infinitely more assholish than docs. Compassion runs deep in most physicians.

Doctors deserve every penny they make. I get tired of the life isn't fair talk of the left leaning socialist type people. People who make big money more times than not earned it through sacrifice and incredible hard work. I retired at 52 and I get tired of people saying what about me. Well you had the opportunity to take the same path but you didn't. Everyone thinks they deserve a corner office and a secretary but they are not willing to earn it. My daughter is about to get out of school and she has three offers already for over 125K. That's not being rich but it's a decent middle class salary. Some of her friends are really jealous because they got nothing out of college. My daughter took over 20 credits in chemistry and plenty of math/biology in her 7 years of school while her friends took communications while partying through school. My other daughter works really hard doing nights and holidays while making 100K. If you are a slacker in life you get what you deserve.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: OneMoreRep on January 03, 2013, 09:13:23 AM
Gastroenterology doctors make big bucks too. If they belong to a group they own the same day operation facility where they do the endo's.

That's becoming a thing of the past.

Most folks prefer to go to local, academic institutions (big name hospitals) for their same-day procedures, as they feel safer in case shit hits the fan (patient de-sats or starts having arrhythmia's with no resolvement - thereby needing to be transferred to an ICU) mid-stream an EGD or colonoscopy.

It is not very common for GI groups to own their own centers.  That practice must have started in a hospital somewhere in order for those docs to have garnered enough of a patient load individually, to then branch out on their own and establish their own private practice with a center for same-day procedures.

The overhead costs alone of that are insane.

Every patient gets a upper and lower endo.

That's a huge scam.  A patient comes in for non-resolving acid reflux that has not responded to medications, diet modifications and lifestyle changes and then the gastroenterologist recommends an EGD in order to assess for possible gastric polyps or even esophageal lining that is starting to resemble barrett's esophagus (precancerous esophageal tissue lining that resembles the lining of the stomach due to perpetual eroding by gastric acid) AND guess what the GI doctor then tells their patient right before they go down (sedated) for the procedure, "Listen, it might be a good idea to just go ahead and do a double-dip (both upper-egd & lower-colonoscopy) in order to get a full picture due to your age and unresolving symptoms.  The patient immediately agrees as it is their doctor recommending it.  Bada-bing, bada-boom you have a double-dip and insurance reimburses for both.  Scam!  That is one practice I don't agree with.  While auditing a few hospitals in NYC, we cracked down on non-essential tests and practices that sought out to drain the resources a patient had on hand.

When I had stomach problems the tests alone were close to 20K.

That was way overpriced for basic tests.  If it was simply bloodwork, you got duped somehow.  If it involved MRI's, CAT scan, capsule endoscopies, various colonoscopies & EGD's, then maybe it would resonate as a fair amount, but 20K for basic tests sounds preposterous.

Lovingly yours,
"1"


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: oldtimer1 on January 03, 2013, 09:22:08 AM
That's becoming a thing of the past.

Most folks prefer to go to local, academic institutions (big name hospitals) for their same-day procedures, as they feel safer in case shit hits the fan (patient de-sats or starts having arrhythmia's with no resolvement - thereby needing to be transferred to an ICU) mid-stream an EGD or colonoscopy.

It is not very common for GI groups to own their own centers.  That practice must have started in a hospital somewhere in order for those docs to have garnered enough of a patient load individually, to then branch out on their own and establish their own private practice with a center for same-day procedures.

The overhead costs alone of that are insane.



That's a huge scam.  A patient comes in for non-resolving acid reflux that has not responded to medications, diet modifications and lifestyle changes and then the gastroenterologist recommends an EGD in order to assess for possible gastric polyps or even esophageal lining that is starting to resemble barrett's esophagus (precancerous esophageal tissue lining that resembles the lining of the stomach due to perpetual eroding by gastric acid) AND guess what the GI doctor then tells their patient right before they go down (sedated) for the procedure, "Listen, it might be a good idea to just go ahead and do a double-dip (both upper-egd & lower-colonoscopy) in order to get a full picture due to your age and unresolving symptoms.  The patient immediately agrees as it is their doctor recommending it.  Bada-bing, bada-boom you have a double-dip and insurance reimburses for both.  Scam!  That is one practice I don't agree with.  While auditing a few hospitals in NYC, we cracked down on non-essential tests and practices that sought out to drain the resources a patient had on hand.

That was way overpriced for basic tests.  If it was simply bloodwork, you got duped somehow.  If it involved MRI's, CAT scan, capsule endoscopies, various colonoscopies & EGD's, then maybe it would resonate as a fair amount, but 20K for basic tests sounds preposterous.

Lovingly yours,
"1"

The costs for test were a upper and lower. Cat scan and an ultra sound. Biopsy and lab. These are NJ costs. I'm sure in some state like Kentucky it's cheaper. You're right the upper and lower endo is a scam to make money but when a person has stomach pain it's a standard practice. Group doctors owning their own same day operating center is very common in NJ. That's for stuff like out patient upper and lower endo. My wife had a breast lump removed in one of those out patient operating places too.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: OneMoreRep on January 03, 2013, 09:26:16 AM
The costs for test were a upper and lower. Cat scan and an ultra sound. Biopsy and lab. These are NJ costs.

That makes sense.

You're right the upper and lower endo is a scam to make money but when a person had stomach pain it's a standard practice.

You betcha!  What's worse is that most gastroenterologists can do a colonoscopy in less than 15 minutes and bill the crap out of it by taking multiple biopsies of flat hyperplastic polyps (which turn out to be nothing and completely harmless).

Group doctors owning their own same day operating center is very common in NJ.

In some rural areas as well this is very common practice.

"1"


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: nicorulez on January 03, 2013, 09:30:45 AM
That's becoming a thing of the past.

Most folks prefer to go to local, academic institutions (big name hospitals) for their same-day procedures, as they feel safer in case shit hits the fan (patient de-sats or starts having arrhythmia's with no resolvement - thereby needing to be transferred to an ICU) mid-stream an EGD or colonoscopy.

It is not very common for GI groups to own their own centers.  That practice must have started in a hospital somewhere in order for those docs to have garnered enough of a patient load individually, to then branch out on their own and establish their own private practice with a center for same-day procedures.

The overhead costs alone of that are insane.

That's a huge scam.  A patient comes in for non-resolving acid reflux that has not responded to medications, diet modifications and lifestyle changes and then the gastroenterologist recommends an EGD in order to assess for possible gastric polyps or even esophageal lining that is starting to resemble barrett's esophagus (precancerous esophageal tissue lining that resembles the lining of the stomach due to perpetual eroding by gastric acid) AND guess what the GI doctor then tells their patient right before they go down (sedated) for the procedure, "Listen, it might be a good idea to just go ahead and do a double-dip (both upper-egd & lower-colonoscopy) in order to get a full picture due to your age and unresolving symptoms.  The patient immediately agrees as it is their doctor recommending it.  Bada-bing, bada-boom you have a double-dip and insurance reimburses for both.  Scam!  That is one practice I don't agree with.  While auditing a few hospitals in NYC, we cracked down on non-essential tests and practices that sought out to drain the resources a patient had on hand.

That was way overpriced for basic tests.  If it was simply bloodwork, you got duped somehow.  If it involved MRI's, CAT scan, capsule endoscopies, various colonoscopies & EGD's, then maybe it would resonate as a fair amount, but 20K for basic tests sounds preposterous.

Lovingly yours,
"1"

OMR,

Tend to agree with all your points, however dyspepsia or acid reflux for greater than 3 months in a patient over the age of 55 warrants an EGD. Colonoscopy not really needed until your 50 and then scheduled either every 10 years if you are polyp free or shorter interval if polyps noted. Agree that entirely too many pan-endoscopies are done for BS reasons.

Socialism, I fear is here to stay. E-Kul kind of reminds me of Marxists who feel that everybody should work for the community and to hell with self gratification or success. However, my point about the matter is that there are far more individuals who milk the system and feel entitled...there I said it...to benefits they do not deserve. Doctors go through a lot of training and blood and sweat. E-Kul, so what if worm got student loans. He is going to pay them back in full plus tacking on an extra 100K for interest. Lawyers meanwhile are free to sue regardless of the frivolity of the lawsuit. Obama doesn't realize that a main driver of astronomical healthcare costs is docs pursuing and ordering needless test for fear of a million dollar lawsuit. Moreover, an illegal alien can come into this country, drink methanol or isopropyl alcohol, and I would have to dialyze for free or he can sue me. WTF is wrong with this country.

E-Kul, I don't get your disdain for a group of individuals who hardly have a GOD complex on average and bust their ass to make a dime. You sound like a pontificating AssHole IMO.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Radical Plato on January 03, 2013, 09:33:14 AM
Imagine of doctors were paid on a performance based system and they actually had to help or heal people, they would be pretty broke.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: OneMoreRep on January 03, 2013, 09:39:20 AM
OMR,

Tend to agree with all your points, however dyspepsia or acid reflux for greater than 3 months in a patient over the age of 55 warrants an EGD. Colonoscopy not really needed until your 50 and then scheduled either every 10 years if you are polyp free or shorter interval if polyps noted. Agree that entirely too many pan-endoscopies are done for BS reasons.

That is exactly the point my post made.  I agree with an EGD for reflux greater than 3 months with no improvement by way of medications, diet modifications and lifestyle changes, but to shove a colonoscopy in the mix in order to rule out other pathologies in an otherwise healthy patient is absurd.

A patient comes in for non-resolving acid reflux that has not responded to medications, diet modifications and lifestyle changes and then the gastroenterologist recommends an EGD in order to assess for possible gastric polyps or even esophageal lining that is starting to resemble barrett's esophagus (precancerous esophageal tissue lining that resembles the lining of the stomach due to perpetual eroding by gastric acid) AND guess what the GI doctor then tells their patient right before they go down (sedated) for the procedure, "Listen, it might be a good idea to just go ahead and do a double-dip (both upper-egd & lower-colonoscopy) in order to get a full picture due to your age and unresolving symptoms.  The patient immediately agrees as it is their doctor recommending it.  Bada-bing, bada-boom you have a double-dip and insurance reimburses for both.  Scam!  That is one practice I don't agree with.  While auditing a few hospitals in NYC, we cracked down on non-essential tests and practices that sought out to drain the resources a patient had on hand.

We said the exact same thing, my post is just a little wordy..
"1"


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: OneMoreRep on January 03, 2013, 09:51:00 AM
Imagine of doctors were paid on a performance based system and they actually had to help or heal people, they would be pretty broke.

Actually, a couple of new changes to health insurance is doing just this for the upcoming years.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesinsights/2012/06/11/value-based-health-care-fad-or-future/ (http://www.forbes.com/sites/forbesinsights/2012/06/11/value-based-health-care-fad-or-future/)

It will be the upcoming "thing" with regards to compensation for physicians.  If you are interested on the matter, look up "value based reimbursement" in google and you will get a healthy dose of articles regarding it.

Medicare is already going to switch to this method, whereby the rate of reimbursement for a physician will depend entirely on the patient's feedback by way of surveys.  Crappy surveys will result in a lower rate of compensation.

The unfortunate part is that not all physicians have great bedside manners, so even if an MD does a great job by way of treating the patient and curing them of their underlying ailment, if they forgot to smile throughout the process, that can significantly cost them in their bottom line.

That isn't fair either.

"1"


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: nicorulez on January 03, 2013, 09:51:47 AM
That is exactly the point my post made.  I agree with an EGD for reflux greater than 3 months with no improvement by way of medications, diet modifications and lifestyle changes, but to shove a colonoscopy in the mix in order to rule out other pathologies in an otherwise healthy patient is absurd.

We said the exact same thing, my post is just a little wordy..
"1"

My bad. I get it now OMR. E-Kul, I have obtained 90 percent plus on Board Certfication exams for both Internal Medicine and Nephrology. My dialysis units rank among the top five percent in all of the SE United States for Fresenius. Maybe I deserve a raise, but to be honest I am very content with my job and enjoy my patients. You on the other hand appear to be bitter and envious of physicians for some reason. Why? Did you go to a quack...they are around. Did you or a loved one have a bad outcome. IMO, the vast majority of physicians are decent people. Like all people, there are good ones and bad. Reputations in the community are often a good indicator of whether a physician is competent and compassionate. As they say, if you think most doctors have a GOD complex, what does it ultimately matter if he is competent and gets the job done. In surgery, my colleagues are often arrogant, but the one worth their salt do a fine good job. Think about it, if you want nice see a priest. If you need NSGY, maybe USCDevilDoc is the right choice  ;D


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on January 03, 2013, 09:53:15 AM
You could be a cock doc habibi

Thank you very much for your vote of confidence, my dear friend.

The feeling is mutual, as I feel that you are one of the most talented members on this site.

While I fancy myself as a part time proctologist, my true calling is in the realm of finance.  It's proven to be the last bastion of lucrative business.  Regardless of the state of the economy, we continue to make money.

"1"


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: OneMoreRep on January 03, 2013, 09:56:32 AM
You could be a cock doc habibi

You might be on to something.

I do have a way of making a man's cock feel good upon my arrival, ironically enough, it always ends with their cocks throwing up at the end.... counterintuitive to what a doctor should be doing, no?

"1"


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Radical Plato on January 03, 2013, 10:14:47 AM
My bad. I get it now OMR. E-Kul, I have obtained 90 percent plus on Board Certfication exams for both Internal Medicine and Nephrology. My dialysis units rank among the top five percent in all of the SE United States for Fresenius. Maybe I deserve a raise, but to be honest I am very content with my job and enjoy my patients. You on the other hand appear to be bitter and envious of physicians for some reason. Why? Did you go to a quack...they are around. Did you or a loved one have a bad outcome. IMO, the vast majority of physicians are decent people. Like all people, there are good ones and bad. Reputations in the community are often a good indicator of whether a physician is competent and compassionate. As they say, if you think most doctors have a GOD complex, what does it ultimately matter if he is competent and gets the job done. In surgery, my colleagues are often arrogant, but the one worth their salt do a fine good job. Think about it, if you want nice see a priest. If you need NSGY, maybe USCDevilDoc is the right choice  ;D
If you follow this thread, my issue is with the initial poster bragging about his half a million dollar a year doctors lifestyle and then disparaging and dehumanising some poor schizophrenic guy at his gym who is on welfare.  That's what I thought was particularly offensive, that someone who worked in the so called CARING profession had ZERO empathy for the most vulnerable members of the community.  The first image I had when I read his thread was Patrick Bateman from the movie/book American Psycho.  It always amazes me why cruel and sadistic people would be attracted to a CARING profession, obviously for some sociopaths, the perks of being a doctor make up for pretending to care about people.

 My Mother was a career Nurse who started of in general Nursing and ended up a midwife.  She spent 45 years in Hospitals, and I have heard many stories from her, and she also didn't have much good to say about Doctors.  My own personal experience of Doctors is via the Medicare system in Australia, and the system sucks, it is common practice for medical centres to completely overbook, leave you waiting for ever and then give you ten minutes (20 minutes if you want to pay double) whereby you can explain your problem, and they then write you out a script and push you out the door, you often times have to wait weeks for an appointment and you are lucky if you can get a doctor who speaks fluent English or even luckier to find a white doctor.

The only time I have been to hospital was for emergency surgery after being attacked by two pitbulls and I had my Achilles tendon severed and was badly mauled.  That also wasn't a good experience with doctors or hospitals (but that is another story), my last trip to the doctor was an attempt to get some sleeping tablets as I haven't been sleeping well lately, and an Indian Doctor who barely spoke English said I had to go to a psychiatrist to get sleeping tablets.  I said "WHAT!" I have to spend hundred or more dollars to go see a head shrink to get some sleeping pills, the doctor said "That's Right", I said I don't know what scam you guys are running, but for Hundred dollars I can get plenty of good drugs that will knock me out, at which point I told him to go fuck himself and walked out.  I told the receptionist I wasn't paying and then left.  The whole profession is Elitist Bullshit, Doctors get off on the Power trip and treating people like children, it is no wonder that illicit drugs are so popular,


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on January 03, 2013, 10:23:11 AM
Do you really want schizophrenics and people with mental illnesses in the work-place....?

The original poster said the guy at the gym was a schizophrenic too. So there's a possibly that without family help, he will walk the streets talking to imaginary people. Anyone who owns a company doesn't want these people anywhere near the workplace.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Griffith on January 03, 2013, 10:24:28 AM

Most are just in it for the cash and prestige and couldn't give a shit, it's just a means to an end.

When they see a patient, they see cash. And often push for surgery, even if they know it's not completely necessary.
Then after they give the op, and there problems, they don't want to know you!!

But it's a Catch 22 situation, if it didn't pay well, there would be a shortage and less incentive for competition.

But admittedly, when it comes to doctors, I do sympathise with the East German model where they earn only slightly more than a brick-layer  ;D


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on January 03, 2013, 10:25:40 AM
Gonna need that in tomato analogy form, bro.

lolz


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: nicorulez on January 03, 2013, 10:32:46 AM
If you follow this thread, my issue is with the initial poster bragging about his half a million dollar a year doctors lifestyle and then disparaging and dehumanising some poor schizophrenic guy at his gym who is on welfare.  That's what I thought was particularly offensive, that someone who worked in the so called CARING profession had ZERO empathy for the most vulnerable members of the community.  The first image I had when I read his thread was Patrick Bateman from the movie American Psycho.  It always amazes me why cruel and sadistic people would be attracted to a CARING profession, obviously for some sociopaths, the perks of being a doctor make up for pretending to care about people.

 My Mother was a career Nurse who started of in general Nursing and ended up a midwife.  She spent 45 years in Hospitals, and I have heard many stories from her, and she also didn't have much good to say about Doctors.  My own personal experience of Doctors is via the Medicare system in Australia, and the system sucks, it is common practice for medical centres to completely overbook, leave you waiting for ever and then give you ten minutes (20 minutes if you want to pay double) whereby you can explain your problem, and they then write you out a script and push you out the door, you often times have to wait weeks for an appointment and you are lucky if you can get a doctor who speaks fluent English or even luckier to find a white doctor.

The only time I have been to hospital was for emergency surgery after being attacked by two pitbulls and I had my Achilles tendon severed and was badly mauled.  That also wasn't a good experience with doctors or hospitals (but that is another story), my last trip to the doctor was an attempt to get some sleeping tablets as I haven't been sleeping well lately, and an Indian Doctor who barely spoke English said I had to go to a psychiatrist to get sleeping tablets.  I said "WHAT!" I have to spend hundred or more dollars to go see a head shrink to get some sleeping pills, the doctor said "That's Right", I said I don't know what scam you guys are running, but for Hundred dollars I can get plenty of good drugs that will knock me out, at which point I told him to go fuck himself and walked out.  I told the receptionist I wasn't paying and then left.  The whole profession is Elitist Bullshit, Doctors get off on the Power trip and treating people like children, it is no wonder that illicit drugs are so popular,

I am not defending DevilDoc or his crassness to some poor sap. However, you went on to disparage most physicians, and it appears that you have decided to collectively throw out the baby with the bath water because of a few bad eggs. Maybe if Australia had a system where it was competition based and not government run or mandated the system would be better. I know for a fact that the local hospitalists are paid hourly and could care less if they care for one patient or twenty. Now, incentivize them to get paid a commensurate sum per admission and patient, along with rewarding standard of care medicine (there's your productivity and quality claim) you will see better physicians. If the government runs the system, you are going to get dumber docs and lazier ones.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on January 03, 2013, 10:34:13 AM
The younger generations need to examine the question of who gets government support/welfare because the number of working people are shrinking compared to the # of people receiving assistance.  This is and will increasingly be a real problem.  There is also a disincentive to work.  Penn government reported on a female mom with 2 kids being better off on assistance than working a job making 40+K per year.  This is not the intent.

I believe able bodied people should only ever get temporary assistance.  We have a responsibility to take care of our sick, disabled, elderly and veterans.  

This is a good post...ONe of the biggest problems going forward imop is not understanding mental illness. In America, everything in your body that is diseased gets compassion except the brain. And because most doctors know next to nothing about the brain, they too look the other way. Watching what happened with the Conn. shooting shouldn't have happened if our mental health system was top priority.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: jwb on January 03, 2013, 10:44:41 AM
If you follow this thread, my issue is with the initial poster bragging about his half a million dollar a year doctors lifestyle and then disparaging and dehumanising some poor schizophrenic guy at his gym who is on welfare.  That's what I thought was particularly offensive, that someone who worked in the so called CARING profession had ZERO empathy for the most vulnerable members of the community.  The first image I had when I read his thread was Patrick Bateman from the movie/book American Psycho.  It always amazes me why cruel and sadistic people would be attracted to a CARING profession, obviously for some sociopaths, the perks of being a doctor make up for pretending to care about people.

 My Mother was a career Nurse who started of in general Nursing and ended up a midwife.  She spent 45 years in Hospitals, and I have heard many stories from her, and she also didn't have much good to say about Doctors.  My own personal experience of Doctors is via the Medicare system in Australia, and the system sucks, it is common practice for medical centres to completely overbook, leave you waiting for ever and then give you ten minutes (20 minutes if you want to pay double) whereby you can explain your problem, and they then write you out a script and push you out the door, you often times have to wait weeks for an appointment and you are lucky if you can get a doctor who speaks fluent English or even luckier to find a white doctor.

The only time I have been to hospital was for emergency surgery after being attacked by two pitbulls and I had my Achilles tendon severed and was badly mauled.  That also wasn't a good experience with doctors or hospitals (but that is another story), my last trip to the doctor was an attempt to get some sleeping tablets as I haven't been sleeping well lately, and an Indian Doctor who barely spoke English said I had to go to a psychiatrist to get sleeping tablets.  I said "WHAT!" I have to spend hundred or more dollars to go see a head shrink to get some sleeping pills, the doctor said "That's Right", I said I don't know what scam you guys are running, but for Hundred dollars I can get plenty of good drugs that will knock me out, at which point I told him to go fuck himself and walked out.  I told the receptionist I wasn't paying and then left.  The whole profession is Elitist Bullshit, Doctors get off on the Power trip and treating people like children, it is no wonder that illicit drugs are so popular,
Go to the chemist and buy some Restavit that will knock you out.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Radical Plato on January 03, 2013, 10:47:26 AM
I am not defending DevilDoc or his crassness to some poor sap. However, you went on to disparage most physicians, and it appears that you have decided to collectively throw out the baby with the bath water because of a few bad eggs. Maybe if Australia had a system where it was competition based and not government run or mandated the system would be better. I know for a fact that the local hospitalists are paid hourly and could care less if they care for one patient or twenty. Now, incentivize them to get paid a commensurate sum per admission and patient, along with rewarding standard of care medicine (there's your productivity and quality claim) you will see better physicians. If the government runs the system, you are going to get dumber docs and lazier ones.
I am sure their are quality physicians who are quality people, and you may be one of them, I just hate the way they treat you like a child, I also hate the way they deal with pain management, to me, this should be the highest order of business for a general practitioner, but instead they are always worried you are going to get addicted or you won't use the medication responsibly and they tell you to take a low grade paracetamol or aspirin.  Even after I had my Achilles tendon severed and I was in agony, they gave me too little pain relief and I was left with a lot of unnecessary pain.  

Personally, I think all drugs should be legal, (especially when you consider what's happening in Mexico anyway, that's another story too) and as an adult I should be given the choice if I want to risk addiction or any other side effects for that matter, this whole GOD trip they play with drugs is pretty ridiculous, when I have to go to the local drug dealer at the Gym to get some sleeping tablets, you know the Medical system is pretty fucked up.  (and I rarely ever have any drugs at all, currently don't drink, smoke or take any medications)  I occasionally take some paracetamol for a rare headache and some anti inflammatory for a minor back issue.)  Yet my girlfriend can go to the doctor and come back with half the pharmacy.  Personally, I have given up hope of finding a decent doctor (after 40 years, I haven't met one worth going to regularly), I will definitely be one of those old men who will only go to a doctor under duress and near death.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Griffith on January 03, 2013, 10:49:45 AM
I am sure their are quality physicians who are quality people, and you may be one of them, I just hate the way they treat you like a child, I also hate the way they deal with pain management, to me, this should be the highest order of business for a general practitioner, but instead they are always worried you are going to get addicted or you won't use the medication responsibly and they tell you to take a low grade paracetamol or aspirin.  Even after I had my Achilles tendon severed and I was in agony, they gave me too little pain relief and I was left with a lot of unnecessary pain.  

Personally, I think all drugs should be legal, (especially when you consider what's happening in Mexico anyway, that's another story too) and as an adult I should be given the choice if I want to risk addiction or any other side effects for that matter, this whole GOD trip they play with drugs is pretty ridiculous, when I have to go to the local drug dealer at the Gym to get some sleeping tablets, you know the Medical system is pretty fucked up.  (and I rarely ever have any drugs at all, currently don't drink, smoke or take any medications)  I occasionally take some paracetamol for a rare headache and some anti inflammatory for a minor back issue.)  Yet my girlfriend can go to the doctor and come back with half the pharmacy.  Personally, I have given up hope of finding a decent doctor (after 40 years, I haven't met one worth going to regularly), I will definitely be one of those old men who will only go to a doctor under duress and near death.

A agree with you 100% here.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: OneMoreRep on January 03, 2013, 10:51:41 AM
Personally, I have given up hope of finding a decent doctor (after 40 years, I haven't met one worth going to regularly), I will definitely be one of those old men who will only go to a doctor under duress and near death.

Here is a novel idea, why not consider going to see a Nurse Practitioner for primary care issues?

They are inexpensive, take extra time, have a truly holistic approach to medicine and know when they are in over their heads.

One of my nieces is a nurse practitioner in Oregon.  She has her own practice and only does primary care medicine.  Her ratings at ratemd.com have always been 5's and she has well over 60 reviews.

Consider that..
"1"

P.S. While Nurse Practitioners are NOT doctors, they typically have 7 years of academic training under their belts, as well as a good number of years practicing as nurses before going for their advanced training.

P.P.S If in New York City, I do have a few primary care MD's that I know personally who are amazing doctors and will gladly see you.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Radical Plato on January 03, 2013, 11:06:42 AM
Go to the chemist and buy some Restavit that will knock you out.
I used to use some mersyndol, but it turns out my sleep is out of phase, I can sleep for eight hours, but I don't get tired until 2-3am, as it stand now it is 5AM, In Australia we are going through a HEATWAVE and it is currently 26 deg Celcius a 5AM in the morning (so no-one can sleep). My sleep routine is all over the place, when I don't get eight hours, I nap late in the day and this perpetuates the early morning bedtimes.  I think sleep has been an on again off again issue for me my whole life, Sometimes, my brain literally cannot switch off (I know the rules of good sleep hygiene), but I just manage it as best I can.  Thanks for the advice though, I might see if the pharmacist has some of that Restavit and give it a try.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Radical Plato on January 03, 2013, 11:16:21 AM
Here is a novel idea, why not consider going to see a Nurse Practitioner for primary care issues?

They are inexpensive, take extra time, have a truly holistic approach to medicine and know when they are in over their heads.

One of my nieces is a nurse practitioner in Oregon.  She has her own practice and only does primary care medicine.  Her ratings at ratemd.com have always been 5's and she has well over 60 reviews.

Consider that..
"1"

P.S. While Nurse Practitioners are NOT doctors, they typically have 7 years of academic training under their belts, as well as a good number of years practicing as nurses before going for their advanced training.

P.P.S If in New York City, I do have a few primary care MD's that I know personally who are amazing doctors and will gladly see you.
I live in Australia, I don't know if they have such a service. plus my Mum is a Nurse, and she is from the school of tough love, unless you have gangrene in a limb, she will tell you to stop being a wimp and just get on with it.  My Mum hobbles around with a myriad of chronic conditions and says, their isn't much anyone can do anyway, that doctors are useless and to just make the best of it.  Fortunately for me, I have had a life of exceptional health, it wasn't until a few years ago after I was attacked by two pitbulls, that I have had lots of little complications, like after the attack I got a DVT  and skin infections, it took me 6 months before I could walk again, and even then I needed a cane for another few months, I then developed occasional anxiety and some depression which then snowballed into the sleep issue I now have, at first I had trouble sleeping and staying asleep, I had constant nightmares and would wake up for hours and now it has settled into a 2-3am, bedtime till about a 9-10am wake time.  And although this has little impact on my lifestyle, I would prefer to go back to the cycle I had of 11-12PM - 7-9AM sleep cycle.  I have tried many things, but I always seem to gravitate back to this later sleep cycle.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: OneMoreRep on January 03, 2013, 11:19:34 AM
I live in Australia, I don't know if they have such a service. plus my Mum is a Nurse, and she is from the school of tough love, unless you have gangrene in a limb, she will tell you to stop being a wimp and just get on with it.  My Mum hobbles around with a myriad of chronic conditions and says, their isn't much anyone can do anyway, that doctors are useless and to just make the best of it.  Fortunately for me, I have had a life of exceptional health, it wasn't until a few years ago after I was attacked by two pitbulls, that I have had lots of little complications, like after the attack I got a DVT  and skin infections, it took me 6 months before I could walk again, and even then I needed a cane for another few months, I then developed occasional anxiety and some depression which then snowballed into the sleep issue I now have, at first I had trouble sleeping and staying asleep, I had constant nightmares and would wake up for hours and now it has settled into a 2-3am, bedtime till about a 9-10am wake time.  And although this has little impact on my lifestyle, I would prefer to go back to the cycle I had of 11-12PM - 7-9AM sleep cycle.  I have tried many things, but I always seem to gravitate back to this later sleep cycle.

I'm sorry to hear friend.

Unfortunately, besides Benadryl, Ambien and possibly marijuana, I don't know too much about possible sleep aids that can be helpful.

Have you ever visited a sleep specialist for further workup?  I've heard of sleep specialists having their own sleep labs, whereby patients stay for 1-3 days while they are monitored through their periods of sleep.

"1"


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: jwb on January 03, 2013, 11:21:28 AM
Mersyndol has the same ingredient as Restavit but it also has codeine which really shouldn't be used for sleeping only pain.

I just read on smh.com.au there is going to be a heat wave today. I figured when I moved to Hawaii I would suffer from the heat but it really never gets that hot here. Never gets cold either every day is between 28 and 32 pretty much.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Coach is Back! on January 03, 2013, 11:25:40 AM
Thank you very much for your vote of confidence, my dear friend.

The feeling is mutual, as I feel that you are one of the most talented members on this site.

While I fancy myself as a part time proctologist, my true calling is in the realm of finance.  It's proven to be the last bastion of lucrative business.  Regardless of the state of the economy, we continue to make money.

"1"

ROFLMAO ;D

Line of the day right there, hahahah!


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Radical Plato on January 03, 2013, 11:40:46 AM
I'm sorry to hear friend.

Unfortunately, besides Benadryl, Ambien and possibly marijuana, I don't know too much about possible sleep aids that can be helpful.

Have you ever visited a sleep specialist for further workup?  I've heard of sleep specialists having their own sleep labs, whereby patients stay for 1-3 days while they are monitored through their periods of sleep.

"1"


I initially used marijuana for about a year, it was pretty effective, but it tends to make me lazy and I developed a pretty bad cough (I was smoking it), so I stopped taking it, the doctor gave me some anti depressants, but they just amped me up and that's what triggered the whole sleep issue.  I was diagnosed with PTSD after the Pitbull attack (due to the length of the recovery I had to sell my business and specialised equipment and I made many changes in a short period of time, some by choice, others not so much), but I didn't think much of the initial diagnosis, at first I seemed unaffected but after a while the effects were pretty obvious, I became a staunch breed restrictions advocate, researched the issue relentlessly, created a website and had regular contact with other advocates and wrote to politicians etc. I eventually scaled this back to just a facebook page as the abuse, death threats and insults become too much for an advocate who has been personally affected by the issue.  You only have to look at the people here who don't like me, they often like to taunt me using the pitbull attack as ammunition, although, I have grown immune to others personal insults and feel confident in my position and views on the matter.  

The main issue I now face is dealing with the seething RAGE I feel about the incident and how it all happened and the owners response and particularly societies lackadaisical approach to dealing with such matters.  I lost a lot of money as a result of the incident, and after three years, I am still waiting for the court case to start and apply for some form of compensation, not to mention my left leg is permanently fucked and causes me all types of pain and discomfort.  Before the attack, I used to have the usual amount of restraint, now, somebody triggers me I am ready to kill (literally), and the scariest part is, I don't care.  When I get like this, I feel like I have now gotten in touch with a side of me that has a death-wish.  it's not that I want to die, IT'S JUST NOW I am prepared to.  I think after the attack, I lost any tolerance I had for fools, and that was low already.  Unfortunately for me, their are plenty of fools walking around.  I have just accepted that it will be a long slow process for the mind to settle again and for my life to stabilise, things are SLOWLY coming together.  These days I am Aiming for progress and not perfection.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: OneMoreRep on January 03, 2013, 11:59:53 AM
I have just accepted that it will be a long slow process for the mind to settle again and for my life to stabilise, things are SLOWLY coming together.  These days I am Aiming for progress and not perfection.

Albeit slow, at the very least you are experiencing progress, which is a great sign considering the fact that not all who are attacked by pitbulls are capable of walking way from the incident.

That experience sounds terrible, but you appear to have a sound head on your shoulders and WILL recover.

"1"


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Griffith on January 03, 2013, 12:07:30 PM

I initially used marijuana for about a year, it was pretty effective, but it tends to make me lazy and I developed a pretty bad cough (I was smoking it), so I stopped taking it, the doctor gave me some anti depressants, but they just amped me up and that's what triggered the whole sleep issue.  I was diagnosed with PTSD after the Pitbull attack (due to the length of the recovery I had to sell my business and specialised equipment and I made many changes in a short period of time, some by choice, others not so much), but I didn't think much of the initial diagnosis, at first I seemed unaffected but after a while the effects were pretty obvious, I became a staunch breed restrictions advocate, researched the issue relentlessly, created a website and had regular contact with other advocates and wrote to politicians etc. I eventually scaled this back to just a facebook page as the abuse, death threats and insults become too much for an advocate who has been personally affected by the issue.  You only have to look at the people here who don't like me, they often like to taunt me using the pitbull attack as ammunition, although, I have grown immune to others personal insults and feel confident in my position and views on the matter.  

The main issue I now face is dealing with the seething RAGE I feel about the incident and how it all happened and the owners response and particularly societies lackadaisical approach to dealing with such matters.  I lost a lot of money as a result of the incident, and after three years, I am still waiting for the court case to start and apply for some form of compensation, not to mention my left leg is permanently fucked and causes me all types of pain and discomfort.  Before the attack, I used to have the usual amount of restraint, now, somebody triggers me I am ready to kill (literally), and the scariest part is, I don't care.  When I get like this, I feel like I have now gotten in touch with a side of me that has a death-wish.  it's not that I want to die, IT'S JUST NOW I am prepared to.  I think after the attack, I lost any tolerance I had for fools, and that was low already.  Unfortunately for me, their are plenty of fools walking around.

It's like a cycle that loops itself inside your head. You keep reliving it. But eventually, it will just consume and destroy you if you don't leave it behind.

I lost out on some of the best parts of my life due to a lot of issues...

I used to have that anger too.....had ZERO fear as well, and almost did some things I'm so glad I didn't.

What helped for me is to realise that I live NOW, not the past, the future is in my hands......

Don't give them the satisfaction of living in your head. It's not worth it. Then they've won.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Nomad on January 03, 2013, 12:13:03 PM
I used to use some mersyndol, but it turns out my sleep is out of phase, I can sleep for eight hours, but I don't get tired until 2-3am, as it stand now it is 5AM, In Australia we are going through a HEATWAVE and it is currently 26 deg Celcius a 5AM in the morning (so no-one can sleep). My sleep routine is all over the place, when I don't get eight hours, I nap late in the day and this perpetuates the early morning bedtimes.  I think sleep has been an on again off again issue for me my whole life, Sometimes, my brain literally cannot switch off (I know the rules of good sleep hygiene), but I just manage it as best I can.  Thanks for the advice though, I might see if the pharmacist has some of that Restavit and give it a try.

Have you tried melatonin or ketotifen fumarate?

Melatonin is basically a natural sleep hormone while ketotifen fumarate is a 2nd gen sleeping aid.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: nicorulez on January 03, 2013, 12:39:47 PM
I am sure their are quality physicians who are quality people, and you may be one of them, I just hate the way they treat you like a child, I also hate the way they deal with pain management, to me, this should be the highest order of business for a general practitioner, but instead they are always worried you are going to get addicted or you won't use the medication responsibly and they tell you to take a low grade paracetamol or aspirin.  Even after I had my Achilles tendon severed and I was in agony, they gave me too little pain relief and I was left with a lot of unnecessary pain.  

Personally, I think all drugs should be legal, (especially when you consider what's happening in Mexico anyway, that's another story too) and as an adult I should be given the choice if I want to risk addiction or any other side effects for that matter, this whole GOD trip they play with drugs is pretty ridiculous, when I have to go to the local drug dealer at the Gym to get some sleeping tablets, you know the Medical system is pretty fucked up.  (and I rarely ever have any drugs at all, currently don't drink, smoke or take any medications)  I occasionally take some paracetamol for a rare headache and some anti inflammatory for a minor back issue.)  Yet my girlfriend can go to the doctor and come back with half the pharmacy.  Personally, I have given up hope of finding a decent doctor (after 40 years, I haven't met one worth going to regularly), I will definitely be one of those old men who will only go to a doctor under duress and near death.

E-Kul one problem we have in America and maybe not Australia is that a lot of docs run proverbial pill mills where they take cash....exorbitant amounts of cash...to prescribe narcotics to drug addicts. The druggies then sell the pills on the street. Profits for all, but then the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA) comes calling and legitimate physicians are caught in the crossfire adn jailed if they prescribe narcotics without following protocol to a T. Thus, narcotic users are deemed users even if they are in pain. Maybe you are right. We legalize cigarettes and alcohol. Maybe if the profit incentive is taken away the utilization and abuse of drugs will go the way of the dinosaur.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: arce1988 on January 03, 2013, 03:41:37 PM
  That is all I was saying Shock...   I stayed the hell away from them       Doc, don't get your feelings hurt... I was just asking       O6 is NO joke


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: arce1988 on January 03, 2013, 03:43:56 PM
  Also, I did NOT know ANY USMC that were gay. How did you? As for kicking my ass... in what?


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: che on January 03, 2013, 03:44:55 PM
Most of the Navy Docs that were with us USMC were homosexual.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: arce1988 on January 03, 2013, 03:47:33 PM
  That is all I was saying, Che...


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: che on January 03, 2013, 03:51:12 PM
  That is all I was saying, Che...

Hey, I  agree with you completely Arce1988 .


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: OneMoreRep on January 03, 2013, 03:57:03 PM
Most of the Navy Docs that were with us USMC were homosexual.

Back when I was a young man, 24 years of age, I met a doctor from the Navy and he was a flaming homosexual. He was soft spoken, witty and had a very large penis.  That night, we went back to my place and made passionate love.  

He wasn't just a sailor, he was a flamboyant homosexual.  He also told me that the navy was a safe haven for affluent homosexuals that sought out great experience in the realm of medicine.

"1"


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: che on January 03, 2013, 04:07:33 PM
Back when I was a young man, 24 years of age, I met a doctor from the Navy and he was a flaming homosexual. He was soft spoken, witty and had a very large penis.  That night, we went back to my place and made passionate love.

He wasn't just a sailor, he was a flamboyant homosexual.  He also told me that the navy was a safe haven for affluent homosexuals that sought out great experience in the realm of medicine.

"1"
:o
You lucky mofo , I'm jealous .


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: arce1988 on January 03, 2013, 05:14:50 PM
  That is all I was saying, OMR... Doc had to get all hissy and shit...


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Shockwave on January 03, 2013, 06:03:00 PM
 That is all I was saying, OMR... Doc had to get all hissy and shit...
Calm down devil dog.. you're getting all crazy up in this shit.  ;D


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: usmcdevildoc on January 03, 2013, 06:21:20 PM

Ok. WTF. You guys are too tiny to satisfy DOC anyway...
LOL

DOC
Lift, fuck, make money


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: OneMoreRep on January 03, 2013, 06:23:56 PM
Ok. WTF. You guys are too tiny to satisfy DOC anyway...
LOL

DOC
Lift, fuck, make money

I beg your pardon Captain??

How big do you prefer them?

Last time I checked the tip of my penis was calloused from dragging it on the floor.

"1"


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Howard on January 03, 2013, 06:27:59 PM
Back when I was a young man, 24 years of age, I met a doctor from the Navy and he was a flaming homosexual. He was soft spoken, witty and had a very large penis.  That night, we went back to my place and made passionate love.  

He wasn't just a sailor, he was a flamboyant homosexual.  He also told me that the navy was a safe haven for affluent homosexuals that sought out great experience in the realm of medicine.

"1"

LMAO ;D


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: OneMoreRep on January 03, 2013, 06:28:54 PM
LMAO ;D

Thank you Howie!

"1"


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Bad Boy Dazza on January 04, 2013, 12:35:05 AM
The younger generations need to examine the question of who gets government support/welfare because the number of working people are shrinking compared to the # of people receiving assistance.  This is and will increasingly be a real problem.  There is also a disincentive to work.  Penn government reported on a female mom with 2 kids being better off on assistance than working a job making 40+K per year.  This is not the intent.

I believe able bodied people should only ever get temporary assistance.  We have a responsibility to take care of our sick, disabled, elderly and veterans.  

Absolutely, and the cheats are creating an environment in which these genuine cases may eventually LOSE that support.  The cheats have such low character that they are stealing from these genuine cases.  Such is their LOW nature.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: garebear on January 04, 2013, 03:48:08 AM
“Once upon a time, America was a shining beacon. Then liberals came along and erected an enormous federal bureaucracy that handcuffed the invisible hand of the free market. They subverted our traditional American values and opposed God and faith at every step of the way.” For example, “instead of requiring that people work for a living, they siphoned money from hard-working Americans and gave it to Cadillac-driving drug addicts and welfare queens.” Instead of the “traditional American values of family, fidelity and personal responsibility, they preached promiscuity, premarital sex and the gay lifestyle” and instead of “projecting strength to those who would do evil around the world, they cut military budgets, disrespected our soldiers in uniform and burned our flag.” In response, “Americans decided to take their country back from those who sought to undermine it.”


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Tapeworm on January 04, 2013, 03:57:05 AM
I haven't read all 6 pages but I murdered a vagrant today and I'm here for my prize.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Bad Boy Dazza on January 04, 2013, 03:58:50 AM
I haven't read all 6 pages but I murdered a vagrant today and I'm here for my prize.

Well the general idea in this thread is that you will go to jail, no frills, no tv, no freebies.  So sorry, no prize.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: Radical Plato on January 04, 2013, 09:29:54 AM
I haven't read all 6 pages but I murdered a vagrant today and I'm here for my prize.
The sad part is, this post has a greater than usual chance of being TRUE!


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: arce1988 on January 04, 2013, 03:49:15 PM
 He is a Full Bird, Shock Wave... He has my respect   I was only an NCO


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on January 04, 2013, 05:14:32 PM
Everything that is happening in America was predetermined. A form of socialism was always the End Game imop.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on January 04, 2013, 05:21:17 PM
If you were to put a white lab coat on a bum and brought him into a hospital with 10 minutes of training, 99% of the bums patients he sees wouldn't second guess him. That's what happens when 300 million strong have been brainwashed.


Title: Re: How do you feel about supporting someone who is "entitled"??
Post by: dr.chimps on January 04, 2013, 05:31:45 PM
I haven't read all 6 pages but I murdered a vagrant today and I'm here for my prize.
Oh. Too bad. Friday is murder-a-drifter day. To qualify for a vagrant prize, the corpse must be verified on a Monday. But don't feel bad, all next week is a hobo safari, so leave some empty space on your calendar for that one.