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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Nutrition, Products & Supplements => Topic started by: John on February 19, 2013, 09:11:32 PM



Title: The Protein Myth
Post by: John on February 19, 2013, 09:11:32 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae-dlHOmwk4


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Montague on February 20, 2013, 05:39:52 AM
I believe in the benefits of raw foods, but I fail to see them as adequate for meeting everyone's needs. He also offers no sources for his claims, other than telling ME to do the research to find his supporting evidence. ::)

He also contradicts himself by claiming that raw fruits and vegetables contain "enzymes" that ARE complete amino acid sources completely adequate for supporting anabolism. He then says that science can only look at foods in their cooked state and is unable to examine their chemical properties in the raw state.

Well, then where the hell is his proof!!
How can he make such bold claims about raw foods when science lacks the technology to completely examine them? What, is he Superman? Does he use his "Spidey-senses" to look at raw food where laboratories fail on the molecular level?

Finally, he looks lean. Lean people appear muscular because their musculature is more visible; think Bruce Lee, who did have muscle and excellent conditioning, but by bodybuilding standards, was considered skinny. I suspect that this guy does possess a bit more muscle than his hypothetical sedentary counterpart would have, but by bodybuilding standards, he's small.
I sincerely doubt he's capable of building any substantial amount of muscle on the diet he claims to eat.

This guy also doesn't come across well insofar as expressing his ideas. Refer to a statement made at the beginning of the clip in which he claims he got his "muscle" by "doing nothing." I find very little credibility in anything he says from the standpoint of scientific and/or anecdotal evidence.

Essentially, people interested in building any appreciable amount of muscle will need to eat more than this guy is suggesting we need.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Borracho on February 20, 2013, 06:22:07 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ae-dlHOmwk4

This guy looks high as shit!



Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: WOOO on February 20, 2013, 06:29:53 AM
dude looks like he has an imbalance...

there are essential fats (essential meaning you with DIE without them)

there are essential proteins (essential meaning you with DIE without them)

both of which are best sourced in animals

there are no essential carbohydrates...


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Montague on February 20, 2013, 07:14:34 AM
He fails to substantiate his claims. It's just a guy standing their making preposterous claims without backing up anything he says.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: John on February 20, 2013, 05:35:41 PM
I believe in the benefits of raw foods, but I fail to see them as adequate for meeting everyone's needs. He also offers no sources for his claims, other than telling ME to do the research to find his supporting evidence. ::)

He also contradicts himself by claiming that raw fruits and vegetables contain "enzymes" that ARE complete amino acid sources completely adequate for supporting anabolism. He then says that science can only look at foods in their cooked state and is unable to examine their chemical properties in the raw state.

Well, then where the hell is his proof!!
How can he make such bold claims about raw foods when science lacks the technology to completely examine them? What, is he Superman? Does he use his "Spidey-senses" to look at raw food where laboratories fail on the molecular level?

Finally, he looks lean. Lean people appear muscular because their musculature is more visible; think Bruce Lee, who did have muscle and excellent conditioning, but by bodybuilding standards, was considered skinny. I suspect that this guy does possess a bit more muscle than his hypothetical sedentary counterpart would have, but by bodybuilding standards, he's small.
I sincerely doubt he's capable of building any substantial amount of muscle on the diet he claims to eat.

This guy also doesn't come across well insofar as expressing his ideas. Refer to a statement made at the beginning of the clip in which he claims he got his "muscle" by "doing nothing." I find very little credibility in anything he says from the standpoint of scientific and/or anecdotal evidence.

Essentially, people interested in building any appreciable amount of muscle will need to eat more than this guy is suggesting we need.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IlgWnwgEak


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Montague on February 20, 2013, 05:43:18 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IlgWnwgEak


I stopped watching 30 seconds in, after the little sales guy says, "If you want the strength and muscles of a gorilla, this video will open your eyes..."


Montague's tip of the day: WE'RE NOT FUKKING GORILLAS!!



...and eating like one will not give you strength like one.

Vegans really are screwed in the head if they actually believe this bullshit.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Princess L on February 20, 2013, 06:28:52 PM

I stopped watching 30 seconds in, after the little sales guy says, "If you want the strength and muscles of a gorilla, this video will open your eyes..."


Montague's tip of the day: WE'RE NOT FUKKING GORILLAS!!



...and eating like one will not give you strength like one.

Vegans really are screwed in the head if they actually believe this bullshit.

We used to have one around here who looked pretty good and seemed to have his head screwed on straight.  Who was that?  (Not a gorilla; a vegetarian  ;) ;))


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Montague on February 20, 2013, 06:41:09 PM

We used to have one around here who looked pretty good and seemed to have his head screwed on straight.  Who was that?  (Not a gorilla; a vegetarian  ;) ;))


All I remember is SMM's 64-page dissertation on how the mountain gorilla's diet relates to their strength. He talked about the potential of humans eating leafs and bugs, and I stopped reading there.


Done right, a vegetarian diet can work for the right person.
Vegan diets: no.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: WOOO on February 20, 2013, 07:02:12 PM

All I remember is SMM's 64-page dissertation on how the mountain gorilla's diet relates to their strength. He talked about the potential of humans eating leafs and bugs, and I stopped reading there.


Done right, a vegetarian diet can work for the right person.
Vegan diets: no.


This


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Montague on February 20, 2013, 07:03:16 PM

This


But, the gorillas...


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: WOOO on February 20, 2013, 07:28:41 PM

But, the gorillas...

They can keep their celery.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Princess L on February 20, 2013, 07:42:13 PM

All I remember is SMM's 64-page dissertation on how the mountain gorilla's diet relates to their strength. He talked about the potential of humans eating leafs and bugs, and I stopped reading there.


Done right, a vegetarian diet can work for the right person.
Vegan diets: no.

No, it wasn't SMM.  It was a person who I think also competed.  He put up progress pics too.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Montague on February 21, 2013, 04:03:39 AM
No, it wasn't SMM.  It was a person who I think also competed.  He put up progress pics too.


Wait...
You mean they looked better than the 300lbs with abs, ex-Special Forces, Green Beret, suckmymuscle?


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: WOOO on February 21, 2013, 06:57:04 AM

Wait...
You mean they looked better than the 300lbs with abs, ex-Special Forces, Green Beret, suckmymuscle?


Um


No homo?


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: animal1991 on February 21, 2013, 11:10:07 AM
http://femidav.strana.de/HowMuchProtein.pdf


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: animal1991 on February 21, 2013, 11:12:20 AM
70-120g per day is enough. According to above ebook...


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Montague on February 21, 2013, 11:59:52 AM
70-120g per day is enough. According to above ebook...


Princess also posted an excellent study outlining recent research. It's pinned at the top of this board for anyone interested.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: WOOO on February 21, 2013, 05:30:15 PM

Princess also posted an excellent study outlining recent research. It's pinned at the top of this board for anyone interested.


Protein is good. More is better. Too much is pointless. Moderation in all things.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Rammstein on February 26, 2013, 11:59:10 AM

We used to have one around here who looked pretty good and seemed to have his head screwed on straight.  Who was that?  (Not a gorilla; a vegetarian  ;) ;))

Lots of examples:

http://www.veganbodybuilding.com/?page=bios


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: a_ahmed on March 01, 2013, 11:11:05 AM
#1 This guy looks like a skeleton

#2 I did not read or watch, just saw a clip of the guy talking for a few seconds.

#3 After my work out last night, family had some smoked lamb (East european specialty smoking meat, pretty high in sodium but tastes damn good).I ate over a whole pound by myself, just sat in middle of the night chopping away the fat portion (still was greasy) and ate away until I had to stop myself.

Hope that helps.

Mmmmm meat. Right now also eating 10oz of chicken breast. Make sure everyone eats meat :D


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: a_ahmed on March 01, 2013, 11:12:32 AM
70-120g per day is enough. According to above ebook...

Your name is animal, I'm going to eat you. Do you mind being roasted or grilled?


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: a_ahmed on March 01, 2013, 11:16:49 AM

I stopped watching 30 seconds in, after the little sales guy says, "If you want the strength and muscles of a gorilla, this video will open your eyes..."


Montague's tip of the day: WE'RE NOT FUKKING GORILLAS!!



...and eating like one will not give you strength like one.

Vegans really are screwed in the head if they actually believe this bullshit.
lol

I was vegetarian for like two three years? Worst time of my life. Started back up with fish, then chicken, then beef, never looked back.

It's a medical fact that you cannot have complete dna proliferation without certain proteins found only in animals NOT plants/vegetables/etc... I forget the exact specifics, but a few doctors brought this up to me, I wish I had some articles on hand for this.

Idiotic comparison of us vs monkey/gorilla/whatever is idiotic... we're not monkies or gorillas. Just as we are not horses or bulls.

Each of these animals is by design different in their metabolism and genetic expression than we are. Otherwise eating like horses and bulls would make us horses and bulls.

And giant NEWS FLASH. The guy looks like a starved gorilla on verge of death, wait he doesn't look like a gorilla.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Montague on March 01, 2013, 12:19:25 PM
lol

I was vegetarian for like two three years? Worst time of my life. Started back up with fish, then chicken, then beef, never looked back.

It's a medical fact that you cannot have complete dna proliferation without certain proteins found only in animals NOT plants/vegetables/etc... I forget the exact specifics, but a few doctors brought this up to me, I wish I had some articles on hand for this.

Idiotic comparison of us vs monkey/gorilla/whatever is idiotic... we're not monkies or gorillas. Just as we are not horses or bulls.

Each of these animals is by design different in their metabolism and genetic expression than we are. Otherwise eating like horses and bulls would make us horses and bulls.

And giant NEWS FLASH. The guy looks like a starved gorilla on verge of death, wait he doesn't look like a gorilla.


Yes, this is all top secret information they like to hide in books.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: animal1991 on March 03, 2013, 10:12:02 PM
http://evidencebasedfitness.blogspot.ca/2013/03/hey-eff-tard-with-abstract-link-yeah-you.html?m=1

Very interesting. Supports Brad Pilon's stance on Protein intake.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: WOOO on March 04, 2013, 04:31:01 AM
http://evidencebasedfitness.blogspot.ca/2013/03/hey-eff-tard-with-abstract-link-yeah-you.html?m=1

Very interesting. Supports Brad Pilon's stance on Protein intake.



http://www.blogger.com/profile/00232033546447678943 (http://www.blogger.com/profile/00232033546447678943)

check your source...


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: animal1991 on March 04, 2013, 09:57:02 PM


http://www.blogger.com/profile/00232033546447678943 (http://www.blogger.com/profile/00232033546447678943)

check your source...
I know the guy doesn't look like much, but its not about the guy its about the study.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: animal1991 on March 04, 2013, 09:58:12 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23446962/


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: dj181 on March 05, 2013, 04:28:06 AM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23446962/

1.2 g per kg is basically .5 grams per pound of bodyweight

but this is for just maintaining muscle mass while on a cal restricted diet

so another question would be... how much protein is required for gaining muscle mass on a diet with a surplus of calories? i'd say not even 1 gram per pound of bodyweight is required/needed


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Montague on March 05, 2013, 05:11:36 AM
Quote
It is the position of the International Society of Sports Nutrition that exercising individuals need approximately 1.4 to 2.0 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight per day. The amount is dependent upon the mode and intensity of the exercise, the quality of the protein ingested, and the status of the energy and carbohydrate intake of the individual. Concerns that protein intake within this range is unhealthy are unfounded in healthy, exercising individuals. An attempt should be made to obtain protein requirements from whole foods, but supplemental protein is a safe and convenient method of ingesting high quality dietary protein. The timing of protein intake in the time period encompassing the exercise session has several benefits including improved recovery and greater gains in fat free mass. Protein residues such as branched chain amino acids have been shown to be beneficial for the exercising individual, including increasing the rates of protein synthesis, decreasing the rate of protein degradation, and possibly aiding in recovery from exercise. In summary, exercising individuals need more dietary protein than their sedentary counterparts, which can be obtained from whole foods as well as from high quality supplemental protein sources such as whey and casein protein.
source: http://www.jissn.com/content/4/1/8


Also, this is one of my favorite quotes on the matter from an intelligent poster:

Your body will adapt based on your metoblism and needs to how much it can absorb at once.  The BIG problem is, that's different for everyone and there's no definitive answer as to only X amount of protein will be absorbed in X amount of time.  Purely speculation.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: dj181 on March 05, 2013, 05:19:51 AM
source: http://www.jissn.com/content/4/1/8


Also, this is one of my favorite quotes on the matter from an intelligent poster:


good stuff man, thanks :)


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Montague on March 05, 2013, 05:29:23 AM
good stuff man, thanks :)


Sure. Princess L posted links to that study several years ago. The thread is pinned on this board.
And remember, you can look up five different studies and find five different conclusions.

I consider these studies to be like general guidelines. Don't be afraid to experiment to find an amount that's good for you. I've found that I make better progress on more than the recommended protein amounts. As mentioned above, you've got to take into account the rest of your diet, training habits, metabolism, and goals.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: animal1991 on March 05, 2013, 10:09:23 PM
source: http://www.jissn.com/content/4/1/8


Also, this is one of my favorite quotes on the matter from an intelligent poster:

I think these guidelines are geared more toward atheletes working out twice a day, 5 days a week, maybe even more, with very high intensity. So I would say their protein demands are bigger.

But if you look at the average gym rat, working out 3/4 times a week, for 45min - 1 hour a day, 1,2g/kg is more than enough I would think. I would say if one adds cardio to the equation I would maybe increase it to 1,5g/kg. But either way I think 1,2g/kg is a good starting point.

I've been eating below 1g/lb protein for a while now and fasting 2x a week and I haven't lost any muscle. And I've been cutting. Lost 6kg so far and I'm now around 12% bodyfat.

I've read John Barban and Brad Pilon stating you only start losing muscle when you are near essential bodyfat levels (3-5%), until then, your body has more than enough fat to give your body energy.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: animal1991 on March 05, 2013, 10:17:13 PM
http://imbodybuilding.com/articles/mike-mentzers/?p=1

Yes, I know a Mentzer interview. But I've always liked his way of thinking toward nutrition. 60% carbs, 25% protein, 15% fat.

Yes I know he was on roids, amphetamines etc etc and "crazy", but still it makes sense what he says in the interview.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Option D on March 05, 2013, 10:19:37 PM
this man is retarded

"you dont build muscle buy excercise"


"i out perform 20 year olds in the Sears Tower"


thats excercise.

to come out of his arse and deny the overwhelming evidence of hypertrophy be it myofibril or sarcoplasmic totally discredits everything that follows.. im upset that i watched it


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: dj181 on March 06, 2013, 02:56:05 AM
http://imbodybuilding.com/articles/mike-mentzers/?p=1

Yes, I know a Mentzer interview. But I've always liked his way of thinking toward nutrition. 60% carbs, 25% protein, 15% fat.

Yes I know he was on roids, amphetamines etc etc and "crazy", but still it makes sense what he says in the interview.

good points there, and it's very important to remember that carbs have a protein sparing effect


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: dj181 on March 07, 2013, 01:56:20 PM
http://imbodybuilding.com/articles/mike-mentzers/?p=1

Yes, I know a Mentzer interview. But I've always liked his way of thinking toward nutrition. 60% carbs, 25% protein, 15% fat.

Yes I know he was on roids, amphetamines etc etc and "crazy", but still it makes sense what he says in the interview.

just read that article and Mentzer said this... "Iím in the process of losing bodyfat now, and Iím going to try and keep my bodyfat at 4 to 5 percent during the year, and then before a contest try to get down to 2.5." :o :o :o

keeping and maintaining 4-5% bodyfat year-round ???

no fucking way! ;D

but that raises a good point which is basically what is a good and maintainable year-round percent bodyfat? i'd say 7-8%



Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Borracho on March 07, 2013, 03:55:09 PM
just read that article and Mentzer said this... "Iím in the process of losing bodyfat now, and Iím going to try and keep my bodyfat at 4 to 5 percent during the year, and then before a contest try to get down to 2.5." :o :o :o

keeping and maintaining 4-5% bodyfat year-round ???

no fucking way! ;D

but that raises a good point which is basically what is a good and maintainable year-round percent bodyfat? i'd say 7-8%



Not even Galeniko does that. Well.....if anyone can it'd sure be him but if we're trying to gain size we have to sacrifice getting much higher than that. 7-8 percent is shredded going by normal people standards. I doubt there is an exact number dj...but for certain something under 12%....anything over that is counter productive I would think. Decreased insulin sensitivity...rise in estrogen levels....etc.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: dj181 on March 07, 2013, 04:03:01 PM
Not even Galeniko does that. Well.....if anyone can it'd sure be him but if we're trying to gain size we have to sacrifice getting much higher than that. 7-8 percent is shredded going by normal people standards. I doubt there is an exact number dj...but for certain something under 12%....anything over that is counter productive I would think. Decreased insulin sensitivity...rise in estrogen levels....etc.

thanks for the feedback man

so you think that even holding and maintaining 7-8% is unrealistic?

i look at this pic and i think to myself i should be able to keep and hold this kinda condition year-round, and the thing is i know it's not really possible but since it's on this photo my dumbass mind tells me it's something that can be done ::)

right now i'm around 10-11% and i feel like a fucking fatass :'(

(http://anthonymychal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/frank-zane1.jpg)


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Borracho on March 07, 2013, 04:07:28 PM
thanks for the feedback man

so you think that even holding and maintaining 7-8% is unrealistic?

i look at this pic and i think to myself i should be able to keep and hold this kinda condition year-round, and the thing is i know it's not really possible but since it's on this photo my dumbass mind tells me it's something that can be done ::)

right now i'm around 10-11% and i feel like a fucking fatass :'(

(http://anthonymychal.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/frank-zane1.jpg)

Its very realistic and many people do it Dougie  ;)

The thing is..... me and you are still twinks and we should concern ourselves with adding some size. Once we reach that level only then should we maintain a certain condition year round. But for now...we should concentrate on growing.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: dj181 on March 07, 2013, 04:17:09 PM
Its very realistic and many people do it Dougie  ;)

The thing is..... me and you are still twinks and we should concern ourselves with adding some size. Once we reach that level only then should we maintain a certain condition year round. But for now...we should concentrate on growing.

 ;D ;D ;D

good point man

so i guess that it's allright to store a bit more fat when you're in the process of adding lean muscle tissue right?

i just want to put this lean muscle tissue onto my upper bod (chest, back, delts, and arms) but my girl keeps me in check by telling me that i also gotta add size onto my legs (calves included) and ass as well lol

fuck i hate training legs and calves >:( >:( >:(


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Montague on March 07, 2013, 08:06:30 PM
hey "john", you total retard.

this guy looks like he never trained in his life, ofc he dont need any more protein than my grandmother ::)

now fuck off.


John and his "resources" have been outed.

But, please refrain from name-calling and "fuck off" attacks on this board.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: animal1991 on March 07, 2013, 11:23:13 PM
just read that article and Mentzer said this... "Iím in the process of losing bodyfat now, and Iím going to try and keep my bodyfat at 4 to 5 percent during the year, and then before a contest try to get down to 2.5." :o :o :o

keeping and maintaining 4-5% bodyfat year-round ???

no fucking way! ;D

but that raises a good point which is basically what is a good and maintainable year-round percent bodyfat? i'd say 7-8%


I think Mentzer underestimated his bodyfat aswell. Maybe his 5% was about 8% and his 5% was his 2%. I mean at 2% bodyfat there is striated glutes etc etc and he never had that


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: dj181 on March 08, 2013, 02:59:28 AM
I think Mentzer underestimated his bodyfat aswell. Maybe his 5% was about 8% and his 5% was his 2%. I mean at 2% bodyfat there is striated glutes etc etc and he never had that

yeah i think you're right

but it's hard to imagine that someone at is level could be so delusional


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: animal1991 on March 08, 2013, 03:48:01 AM
But b
yeah i think you're right

but it's hard to imagine that someone at is level could be so delusional
Yeah but you know how bodybuilders are


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: dj181 on March 08, 2013, 03:53:10 AM
But bYeah but you know how bodybuilders are

i read that article a bit more thoroughly and found this, which is rather spot on

"When youíve got to diet severely, you invariably also lose some muscle mass. Itís better to do what Clarence Bass suggests: stay lean all year and try to build muscleóyou donít have to add fat to build muscle, by the wayóand then zero in six to eight weeks before each contest. Iím not sure what the proper number isómaybe 6 or 7 percent. But it can be done"

6-7% is MUCH MORE REASONABLE than 4-5% lol


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Borracho on March 08, 2013, 04:34:03 PM

the bigger one is the less bodyfat he can maintain year round.

i can get down to 5%, but theres no way anyone could maintain that year round.
not even 6%.6 is possible with very strict diet year round.7% gives some leniency, 8% is kinda easy.

over 10% on drugs is plain and simply fatso level, the water that comes with the fat will make it look like 15.

in order to grow, something like 7-8% is best imo.

i dont see how anyone could grow while maintaining 6%,other than adding more and more drugs all the time.

to think that stage ready zane shape is even remotely maintainable is crazy, thats with water regulation tricks and everything, jst for a show.

any kind of meal and water drinking will "mess" that shape up immediately.

Doing this for vanity reasons I just don't allow myself to get much over that 10% mark anymore. But even if I was trying to get as big as possible for competitions or for insanity reasons there isn't any benefit in letting yourself get fat like lee priest.

(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=302084.0;attach=343649;image)

Reading articles back in the day about putting muscle mass actually had me believing I had to be eating whatever and whenever to gain size. One of these articles even mentioned fat lee priest insinuating that its ok to get fat.  ::)

wrt the thread topic.....my body never really handled carbs very well and now using gear the amount of bloat I get on higher carbs is disgusting.

Higher protein and lower carbs has allowed me to eat a lot of food without looking like crap and putting on some lean mass at the same time. I wouldn't go about it any other way....more protein=better results for me.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: animal1991 on March 10, 2013, 09:06:52 AM
0,64g/lb is good protein intake to aim for. 0,82g/lb to be on the "safe side"
http://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: dj181 on March 10, 2013, 09:12:06 AM
0,64g/lb is good protein intake to aim for. 0,82g/lb to be on the "safe side"
http://mennohenselmans.com/the-myth-of-1glb-optimal-protein-intake-for-bodybuilders/

agreed

i don't think that one needs one gram per pound of bodyweight


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: animal1991 on March 10, 2013, 09:20:32 AM
So I would conclude that 1,2-1,6g/KG bodyweight would be optimal


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: dj181 on March 10, 2013, 03:30:00 PM
here's a good article

http://breakingmuscle.com/nutrition/how-much-protein-do-you-need-science-weighs

it recommends .55 to 1 gram per pound of bodyweight

i'm gonna go on a little diet now coz my waist has crept up to 33 inches, it was 30 inches not so long ago so now it's time to get back into rippedness 8)


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: MCWAY on March 10, 2013, 03:45:05 PM
When in doubt, go with 1 gram per pound of bodyweight. It's a start, a foundation.

From there you can adjust as needed. Usually, it's a small adjustment: Larger eggs here, an extra scoop of powder there.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: animal1991 on March 10, 2013, 09:03:13 PM
I would say if one is on a low carb diet, protein could be increased. But not by much...

If one is consuming adequate carbs, then high protein intake is not even necessary, as carbs are protein sparing. I'll then go to the lower end of the scale, 1,2g/kg...

Currently I'm getting in below that! 100-110g a day, and my carbs are about 250g, and I haven't felt any negative effects as yet. Note that I am around 12% bodyfat now.

I would say once you go below 8% as a natty, you start to risk muscle loss. And as I just want to get to sub 10%, I don't think there is need to worry.

I've read that only once you get into the essential bodyfat (4-5%) range, your body will only then start to eat away muscle.

Yes, muscle is very metabolically active, but as long as you have a stored energy source (fat) and immediate energy source (carbs), your body won't catabolize it.

I've stopped overanalyzing nutrition and just sticking to the basics.

That's what its all about:
Calories in < Calories out
Adequate protein (1,2-1,6g/kg), fat (0,3-0,5g/kg), carb (rest of calories) intake.
Also, note that these calories do not come from junk, although it can be included, but it comes from nutrient dense food (not necessarily traditional bodybuilding foods)


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: dj181 on March 11, 2013, 03:07:42 AM
i'll be getting in about 1.4 grams per kilo bodyweight during my get ripped phase and i'm certain that it will be enough, but time will tell

i plan to keep on making my training loads increase during this time, and if they do then you can be damn sure that i'm not losing any muscle lol


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: animal1991 on March 12, 2013, 02:22:03 AM
protein intake depends on these:

how many carbs you eat

on gear or not

how much cardio you do.excessive cardio will require lots of protein.


the protein requirement for endurance athletes are higher than for bodybuilders,i seen studies on that.not to mention the carbs.

but yeah, those are the factors.
Agreed

If you look at it this way. Let's say you a 1000 calories worth of exercise (cardio and weight lifting), then 250g carbs are more than enough.

Don't know if I'm lookin at it the wrong way, just makes sense to me like that.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: BigCyp on April 02, 2013, 05:03:34 AM
Just wanted to add something;

'1g per pound of bodyweight' is not the best starting point - '1g per pound of lean bodyweight / or goal bodyweight' is better.

No point for a 320 pound 34%bf dude to start eating 350g of protein a day, and wondering why he hasn't got many kcals left to eat much else and still lose weight.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: Montague on April 02, 2013, 11:02:48 AM
Just wanted to add something;

'1g per pound of bodyweight' is not the best starting point - '1g per pound of lean bodyweight / or goal bodyweight' is better.

No point for a 320 pound 34%bf dude to start eating 350g of protein a day, and wondering why he hasn't got many kcals left to eat much else and still lose weight.


Good points.

I suspect many of us take such knowledge for granted. But, since this is a learning/discussion/information-sharing board, the disclaimer is probably worth mentioning: FAT DOESN'T NEED PROTEIN TO SUPPORT IT!!!


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: dj181 on April 02, 2013, 12:53:38 PM
i'll be getting in about 1.4 grams per kilo bodyweight during my get ripped phase and i'm certain that it will be enough, but time will tell

i plan to keep on making my training loads increase during this time, and if they do then you can be damn sure that i'm not losing any muscle lol

update

i've been eating even less than 1.4 grams per kilo of bodyweight and i'm not losing any muscle whatsoever while on a diet of 1600-2000 cals per day

and in fact, i've even gained some muscle 8)


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: BigCyp on April 03, 2013, 12:04:50 AM

Good points.

I suspect many of us take such knowledge for granted. But, since this is a learning/discussion/information-sharing board, the disclaimer is probably worth mentioning: FAT DOESN'T NEED PROTEIN TO SUPPORT IT!!!

Good line, I like it.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: MCWAY on April 04, 2013, 08:45:26 AM
Just wanted to add something;

'1g per pound of bodyweight' is not the best starting point - '1g per pound of lean bodyweight / or goal bodyweight' is better.

No point for a 320 pound 34%bf dude to start eating 350g of protein a day, and wondering why he hasn't got many kcals left to eat much else and still lose weight.

I'm not talking about severly obese people.

I believe 1 gram per pound of bodyweight is the best starting point, for bodybuilding purposes. It's easier to take your protein down, if you need less, than to bump it up.

Again, it gives you a foundation. In my case (at least in my early years) I eventually needed more protein than that.

If you're skinny and need mass, the last concern you should have is whether your protein is supporting fat or not.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: BigCyp on April 05, 2013, 02:18:28 AM
I'm not talking about severly obese people.

I believe 1 gram per pound of bodyweight is the best starting point, for bodybuilding purposes. It's easier to take your protein down, if you need less, than to bump it up.

Again, it gives you a foundation. In my case (at least in my early years) I eventually needed more protein than that.

If you're skinny and need mass, the last concern you should have is whether your protein is supporting fat or not.


Sorry I should have clarified, I was specifically taking about protein intake when cutting (hence lean bodyweight being the base point)

I agree that if someone is looking to generally get bigger, and train for hypertrophy, bodyweight is the best start marker.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: WOOO on April 05, 2013, 03:50:28 AM
in my case over the short and medium term i have never noticed a difference if i vary from day to day between 300g protein all the way down to 120g... i focus more on total calories and QUALITY calories from nutritious food...

most recomendations are based on 'lean body mass'... this is often overlooked leading to overeating


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: BigCyp on April 05, 2013, 06:41:16 AM
in my case over the short and medium term i have never noticed a difference if i vary from day to day between 300g protein all the way down to 120g... i focus more on total calories and QUALITY calories from nutritious food...

most recomendations are based on 'lean body mass'... this is often overlooked leading to overeating

Exactly my point.

I'm currently dieting (5th week in), and there are days where my fat intake may be higher than usual, and it naturally gives me less kcals to 'spend' on protein. I can get as low as 100g (which is pretty damn low when your on less than 100g of carbs a day).

Difference to my muscle tone - 0
Difference to my muscle repair - 0
Difference to my life - 0

Now.......if I were to drop my protein intake to 100g a day for months on end and eat more fats to make up the kcals, you would have a different end result for sure. Maybe just as lean, but definatley gonna be losing some muscle.


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: dj181 on April 05, 2013, 07:24:13 AM
Exactly my point.

I'm currently dieting (5th week in), and there are days where my fat intake may be higher than usual, and it naturally gives me less kcals to 'spend' on protein. I can get as low as 100g (which is pretty damn low when your on less than 100g of carbs a day).

Difference to my muscle tone - 0
Difference to my muscle repair - 0
Difference to my life - 0

Now.......if I were to drop my protein intake to 100g a day for months on end and eat more fats to make up the kcals, you would have a different end result for sure. Maybe just as lean, but definatley gonna be losing some muscle.

good post, and The Shitles would most definitely approve 8)


Title: Re: The Protein Myth
Post by: SupahStah on April 09, 2013, 11:15:39 AM
OK I managed 40 seconds into it. 'I don't, I don't get my protein.' Well I guess then you're dying then aren't you? Since without protein you know, you die. This isn't something up for debate; protein is required to sustain human life.