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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: dealah33 on February 25, 2013, 08:22:21 PM



Title: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: dealah33 on February 25, 2013, 08:22:21 PM
So I am a bit fat. I need to trim down. I have been carb cycling, I know its mainly diet.

I was curious what you guys do cardio ratio to / weight ratio. I don't want to overtrain and be tired always. I was thinking weights 2x a week (full body major groups hit) and cardio (sprints, jogging and rowing) 3x a week (20 mins sprints, 30 minute jogs and 20 minutes rowing). On the sprint days I won't do any weights.

Will be on test 250 week / EQ 500 week for 12 weeks.

This routine is totally made up and would like some input..


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: AVBG on February 25, 2013, 08:25:31 PM
70% weights 30% cardio


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: WOOO on February 26, 2013, 06:54:18 PM
fastest way:


eat as little as possible, cut out all carbs.

do as much cardio as you can.

thats the fastest way, not necesarly the easiest.

the less cardio you do and the more carbs you eat the longer itll take.




100% accurate IMO


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: oldtimer1 on March 04, 2013, 02:11:55 PM
fastest way:


eat as little as possible, cut out all carbs.

do as much cardio as you can.

thats the fastest way, not necesarly the easiest.

the less cardio you do and the more carbs you eat the longer itll take.



I like a lot of your advice. What type of lifting would you do while cutting? How many sets per exercise? Total sets per body part. How many exercises per body part? What rep range for various exercise? How many times per body part a week? Once, twice, or three times? I realize using a 3 on an one off example doesn't flow with a 7 day calendar week. Just like to hear other view points.


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: D.O.U.P on March 04, 2013, 04:16:47 PM
fastest way:


eat as little as possible, cut out all carbs.

do as much cardio as you can.

thats the fastest way, not necesarly the easiest.

the less cardio you do and the more carbs you eat the longer itll take.



yes


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: dj181 on March 04, 2013, 04:41:13 PM
so is it better to get ripped fast or to take it slow?

never could figure this out actually...


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: WOOO on March 04, 2013, 05:47:44 PM
so is it better to get ripped fast or to take it slow?

never could figure this out actually...



ripped fast... way easier to 'sprint' the weight off if you have a lot too lose... shouldn't run a caloric deficit for more than 12-16 weeks as a natty IMO... (too much impact to muscle mass)


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: dj181 on March 05, 2013, 03:45:58 AM


ripped fast... way easier to 'sprint' the weight off if you have a lot too lose... shouldn't run a caloric deficit for more than 12-16 weeks as a natty IMO... (too much impact to muscle mass)

maybe so

my all-time best performance was going from 12 to 7.5 in 2 weeks time, but it was 2 weeks of pure hell :D :D :D


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: oldtimer1 on March 05, 2013, 02:29:37 PM
I did something similar in high school. I quit the track team and drank gain weight shakes  lifting weights. I looked like a perma bulker and decided I missed the track team going back to the team. My coach saw me and he said you look so fat. I thought I was looking buff. I was so pissed off I ran and did bodyweight exercises like mad for two weeks and I lost 10 pounds of fat. I know many will say it's not possible but I did it.


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: Montague on March 05, 2013, 02:58:00 PM
I did something similar in high school. I quit the track team and drank gain weight shakes  lifting weights. I looked like a perma bulker and decided I missed the track team going back to the team. My coach saw me and he said you look so fat. I thought I was looking buff. I was so pissed off I ran and did bodyweight exercises like mad for two weeks and I lost 10 pounds of fat. I know many will say it's not possible but I did it.


No, I believe it.
There's a lot of things our bodies could do in HS that they could never do now.
 ;D


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: dj181 on March 05, 2013, 03:01:22 PM
I did something similar in high school. I quit the track team and drank gain weight shakes  lifting weights. I looked like a perma bulker and decided I missed the track team going back to the team. My coach saw me and he said you look so fat. I thought I was looking buff. I was so pissed off I ran and did bodyweight exercises like mad for two weeks and I lost 10 pounds of fat. I know many will say it's not possible but I did it.

for my 2 week fat-loss program i ate a legit 800 cals per day and i ran twice a day for 20-30 min for each run, and this was a true hard run, and not a "jog"


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: che on March 05, 2013, 07:22:32 PM
for my 2 week fat-loss program i ate a legit 800 cals per day and i ran twice a day for 20-30 min for each run, and this was a true hard run, and not a "jog"
Don't listen to Gayleniko  DJ , he couldn't even spell the word natural ,he doesn't know what it takes to get lean without drugs .

BTW ,physique wise

DJ181  > Gayleniko


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: oldtimer1 on March 05, 2013, 07:33:51 PM
for my 2 week fat-loss program i ate a legit 800 cals per day and i ran twice a day for 20-30 min for each run, and this was a true hard run, and not a "jog"

I was already drinking probably 1600 calories in gain weight drinks that I stopped. I also ate less and the runs were twice a day. Hard 3 miles before school then track practice with body weight exercise. The fat just came off quick.


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: oldtimer1 on March 05, 2013, 07:41:18 PM
Don't listen to Gayleniko  DJ , he couldn't even spell the word natural ,he doesn't know what it takes to get lean without drugs .

BTW ,physique wise

DJ181  > Gayleniko

As every natural knows without drugs some muscle is sacrificed getting lean. Using drugs everything you try in the weight room gives results. I often say drug users like to give advice when juicing. When they stop due to legal, health or financial reasons they can't give advice because the muscle is gone. 


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: oldtimer1 on March 05, 2013, 07:45:49 PM
thx man, feeling humbled.
 
well, first i dont care about the training schedule fitting into a calendary week.i just go by feel.

the fastest way is to train every bodypart once every 5 days and then repeat the whole thing with no day off, but this will absolutely lead to overtraining eventually.esp a natty.
but the metabolism will be insanely speed up,atleast for me,it is.days off the gym i can feel how metaboism slows down a bit, no question.

but thats just the fastest way, i didnt say itd be the smartest or healthiest way ;D

now something sane would be 2 days train,1 day off,2days training,1 off, repeat.

i believe in working only one muscle group a day, it puts much less stress on the nervous system, you recover quicker,and get to work the muscle more intense,or precise,so to say.

i alternate one week "heavy" training, one week"light" training, sometimes i alternate withing days.

id do the very basic stuff, no matter whether diet or "bulking".

warm up, then base compound lifts first, pyramid up in weight, then down.something like 5-10 sets, depending on peds or no ped and energy levels.
then followed  by "isolation" movement, 5 sets, and then a machine of prefence or cables,5 sets.

basicaly, 3 exercises, about 15-20 sets total.i go near failure on all of them :D

oh, and for reps, i try to do 12-15 on everything, but do go as low as 6 for some sets and as high as 20-25on others.the low andf high reps sets are maybe 5-6 total.

with no peds, frequency or number of sets is best decreased by,say, 30%.
for a natural athlete(which you are not, even though you look like one), diet works bit different, but you wouldnt listen anyway, so ill just spare my words.i have been nice 6% when clean and know how its done, and kept wuite some size.you may continue your diet for 12 year old girls and never improve an iota ever, even on gear, as it was already the case.

now for enhanced athlete, fast is the best way, why waste time, gear will greatly boost recovery and energy levels and prevent muscle from melting away, ped athlete can simply crash the calories, eat plenty protein and have no worries about muscle loss.everything he will lose will be fat and water.no reason to go slow.

Thanks for taking the time for your view point. I'm at a point in my life where I want to do a lot of cardio. I find that in my 50's it's hard or next to impossible to lift heavy when you are going for hard runs. Try ripping a hard 5 mile run and see how much is left for leg day the day after.


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: jpm101 on March 05, 2013, 08:02:27 PM
Witnessed quite a few guy's (lifters to make their class bwt and also BB'ers to booster their ego)  cut down on body fat and still keep the same lean muscle or even improve on it, with some slight increase in size. All without the help of chemical engineering. This eating style has also been used by athletes, who must preform and keep the energy level up for their chosen sports.

They never felt the need to cut calories to any drastic level, where hunger was always present. Why do so, that's not needed. Most all had a full stomach and a feeling of being well fed. Their collective calorie level was well above the basic 2,700 to 2,800 for the body's maintenance and daily repair requirements (mean average..depending on individual metabolism).

Their eating habits increase the fats and oils, meat, fish and fowl. With the restrained use of veggies (very large salads mostly or a good large anti pasta......my choice). No citrus of any kind.  Their was reduction in carbs  (both the good & bad kind). First at 100 grams in a 24 hour period. If that proved non productive or too slow, than carbs were dropped to 60 grams a day. 40 to 30 grams were the lowest allow. I know some BB'ers have used zero carbs per day. for a week or two, but that can do more harm than good to the health of the internal organs. Most all would have one cheat day per week (a few 2 days on the weekends) , where whole grains, pizza, etc where eaten. Of course, in moderation.

If feeling the urge for cardio, than would suggest interval training, rather than the long marathon style bouts of extreme running or anything else along those "endurance" lines. Which in the long view, can give even muscle wasting results, if the body is on a very low calorie intake. Some surprising studies suggest, that even at rest (away from the gym) fat is still used at a higher rate (burned) from serious interval efforts

Workouts would tend to be generally the same, with the normal rest between sets is 90 seconds. And between exercises, 3 to 4 minutes. Keeping the pace fast and with serious intend, as any workout should be.. Good Luck.


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: jpm101 on March 05, 2013, 08:10:17 PM
Che might be on to something.

Might also add, everything done in the gym, with the aid of drugs, does not (or never in a few cases) assures any kind of outstanding result, good or bad. Only kidding yourself if thinking drugs are the magic cure all for size and strength. Good Luck.


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: dj181 on March 06, 2013, 03:14:55 AM
uhm, ok, "she" che.....

i long thought were fine and all, however it didnt escape my notice how you and dj181 exchanged "ma man" and such wigger words between eachothers.

theres the smell of latent homosexuality in that :-\

idve never excepted youd defend dj181 off all people ???

oh well, ill give you benefit of doubt maybe you put the ">" sign the wrong way.

man, the only thing natural about dj181 is his straight from the tap semen protein source

ok, clarify, until then, youre basicaly a somewhat bigger version of dj181, ill not call you a marathon runner, lets say female sprinter.



i was natural here you fucking idiot

and i was natural when i cut from 12 to 7.5 dumbass


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: dj181 on March 06, 2013, 03:15:43 AM
Don't listen to Gayleniko  DJ , he couldn't even spell the word natural ,he doesn't know what it takes to get lean without drugs .

BTW ,physique wise

DJ181  > Gayleniko

thanks ma man ;D


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: oldtimer1 on March 06, 2013, 08:08:49 AM
i was natural here you fucking idiot

and i was natural when i cut from 12 to 7.5 dumbass

Good physique. What type of training were you doing when this picture was taken?


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: dj181 on March 06, 2013, 08:53:27 AM
Good physique. What type of training were you doing when this picture was taken?

thanks man

i was trying to do it all at that time lol

i was doing bp comps, and also doing some print work (physique modelling if you will) and also training to compete in dual-athlons (like triathlons with running and biking but without swimming) so i lifted about 5 days per week concentrating on benching with a little lat work, and then i ran most days of the week

my running was anywhere from 2 to 5 miles a day and i'd run the 5 milers at a moderate pace (base training) while running the 2-3 miles at a very hard and competitive pace (AT threshold level training)


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: Roger Bacon on March 06, 2013, 11:43:43 AM
I did something similar in high school. I quit the track team and drank gain weight shakes  lifting weights. I looked like a perma bulker and decided I missed the track team going back to the team. My coach saw me and he said you look so fat. I thought I was looking buff. I was so pissed off I ran and did bodyweight exercises like mad for two weeks and I lost 10 pounds of fat. I know many will say it's not possible but I did it.

that made me lol  ;D


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: Roger Bacon on March 06, 2013, 11:46:02 AM
i was natural here you fucking idiot

 ;D


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: sexpert on March 06, 2013, 12:06:44 PM
Che might be on to something.

Might also add, everything done in the gym, with the aid of drugs, does not (or never in a few cases) assures any kind of outstanding result, good or bad. Only kidding yourself if thinking drugs are the magic cure all for size and strength. Good Luck.
  ::)


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: oldtimer1 on March 06, 2013, 01:41:36 PM
thanks man

i was trying to do it all at that time lol

i was doing bp comps, and also doing some print work (physique modelling if you will) and also training to compete in dual-athlons (like triathlons with running and biking but without swimming) so i lifted about 5 days per week concentrating on benching with a little lat work, and then i ran most days of the week

my running was anywhere from 2 to 5 miles a day and i'd run the 5 milers at a moderate pace (base training) while running the 2-3 miles at a very hard and competitive pace (AT threshold level training)

I'm doing a lot of cardio now. Trying to get into decent running shape for a 5K in May or June. My 30 something niece and nephew run in 5K to half marathons and I told them find a 5K in May and I'll run it with them. My nephew said something about, "No shame in walking when you get tired during a race. A lot of guys your age do it."  In my youth I could string 5 minute miles together but those days are gone forever. I just hope  I can string 3 seven minute miles at my age and hope to have him sucking wind behind me.

Don't you find that hard runs kill your strength especially in your legs? A runner who lifts told me that you can't be a good strength athlete and a good endurance athlete. He said in effect,  Use light to moderate weight and push your muscular endurance limit and you will find yourself ripped. You're not going to run 5 miles and do hard intervals expecting a max single in the deadlift the day after.

Thanks for the reply. I have always struggled trying to do both running and lifting. It's give and take so to speak. For me, lifting going great means running stinks. Running going fantastic then lifting stinks. Just a few times have both gone well with me. It's either one or the other.


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: dj181 on March 06, 2013, 02:35:24 PM
I'm doing a lot of cardio now. Trying to get into decent running shape for a 5K in May or June. My 30 something niece and nephew run in 5K to half marathons and I told them find a 5K in May and I'll run it with them. My nephew said something about, "No shame in walking when you get tired during a race. A lot of guys your age do it."  In my youth I could string 5 minute miles together but those days are gone forever. I just hope  I can string 3 seven minute miles at my age and hope to have him sucking wind behind me.

Don't you find that hard runs kill your strength especially in your legs? A runner who lifts told me that you can't be a good strength athlete and a good endurance athlete. He said in effect,  Use light to moderate weight and push your muscular endurance limit and you will find yourself ripped. You're not going to run 5 miles and do hard intervals expecting a max single in the deadlift the day after.

Thanks for the reply. I have always struggled trying to do both running and lifting. It's give and take so to speak. For me, lifting going great means running stinks. Running going fantastic then lifting stinks. Just a few times have both gone well with me. It's either one or the other.

you can't expect to get good results from both at the same time because they use different energy systems, and that's why i didn't really train my legs so hard at the time, coz i knew that it was pointless

i remember getting my bench shirt sent to the gym where i was doing my personal fitness training at that time, and some of the other trainers got a hold of the shirt before i did, so they wrote on the outside of the package something like "to dj, the bench press specialist, fotomodel, runner extraordinaire, the fella who does it all" lol that shit was funny as hell i gotta admit ;D ;D ;D

and by the way, i'm damn impressed that you could clip out 5 min miles :o :o :o that's damn, damn good, so PROPS man

i'm sure that you'll be able to clip out three 7 min miles, and in fact i bet that you could probably get them do to 6 min miles if you put the time and effort into the training

the key is... when the running gets harder, you just clamp down on that shit and run even harder 8)


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: oldtimer1 on March 06, 2013, 03:20:35 PM
you can't expect to get good results from both at the same time because they use different energy systems, and that's why i didn't really train my legs so hard at the time, coz i knew that it was pointless

i remember getting my bench shirt sent to the gym where i was doing my personal fitness training at that time, and some of the other trainers got a hold of the shirt before i did, so they wrote on the outside of the package something like "to dj, the bench press, fotomodel, runner extraordinaire, the fella who does it all" lol that shit was funny as hell i gotta admit ;D ;D ;D

and by the way, i'm damn impressed that you could clip out 5 min miles :o :o :o that's damn, damn good, so PROPS man

i'm sure that you'll be able to clip out three 7 min miles, and in fact i bet that you could probably get them do to 6 min miles if you put the time and effort into the training

the key is... when the running gets harder, you just clamp down on that shit and run even harder 8)

I ran 5 minute miles almost 40 years ago. No, I don't think at this age I would be able to run a 5k at 6 minute pace. 7 minute pace would just about kill me now. I was a sprinter and I never ran that much distance in high school and college. Many 20, 30 and 40 something thinks that aging won't apply to them but they are wrong and don't have a clue. Those 55 year old guys running 18 minute 5k's were running sub 15 minute 5k's when they were 25.


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: tbombz on March 09, 2013, 12:13:28 AM
fastest way:


eat as little as possible, cut out all carbs.

do as much cardio as you can.

thats the fastest way, not necesarly the easiest.

the less cardio you do and the more carbs you eat the longer itll take.



cutting carbs while doing tons of cardio is a horrible idea.  cut the fats if your doing lots of cardio. you need to have glycogen in your muscles in order to benefit from lots of cardio.  or else your gonna be trying to perform movements which require and energy source you dont have, forcing a breakdown of metabolically and aesthetically vital muscle tissue to fill that energy-gap.

unless of course your talking about slow paced, low intensity cardio.  which is fine to do on zero carbs. but doesnt burn much calories and takes up a ton of time, something alot of people dont have to spend and dont want to spend.


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: Rudee on March 11, 2013, 08:58:44 AM
cutting carbs while doing tons of cardio is a horrible idea.  cut the fats if your doing lots of cardio. you need to have glycogen in your muscles in order to benefit from lots of cardio.  or else your gonna be trying to perform movements which require and energy source you dont have, forcing a breakdown of metabolically and aesthetically vital muscle tissue to fill that energy-gap.

unless of course your talking about slow paced, low intensity cardio.  which is fine to do on zero carbs. but doesnt burn much calories and takes up a ton of time, something alot of people dont have to spend and dont want to spend.


Agreed.  I see plenty of people at my gym lately jumping on the low carb bandwagon and doing HIIT at the same time.  Which is a huge "no-no".  They are dropping scale weight for sure, but they are losing a lot of muscle in the process.   They are becoming smaller flabbier versions of their former heavier selves.    Never combine HIIT with a low carb diet unless you want to cannibalize muscle tissue.   For low carbers, low intensity cardio is the way to go. 


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: Donny on March 13, 2013, 01:34:40 AM
people are always looking for a short cut to results and doing the minimum work for it. Take the Tabata training protocol as an example. 20 secs work 10 secs rest x8 so 4 minutes work. Now the Original studies were done with very fit athletes who pushed each 20 secs work period to the LIMIT. I hear this from people, "yep, did my HIT Cardio today, Did my HIT weight training". now when they say HIT cardio are they really going to the max? in most cases i have seen no. The average Gym weight trainer has not got the Fitness to train HIT 110% 2 a week. The intensity becommes less than needed. I do not think anything less than 15-20 mins will give you any good results. Another "Myth" is that if you run 2-3 times a week 30-45 mins at a good pace with some hills in there (not talking about a snail pace here) "you will lose all that hard gained muscle".. mainly still pushed by some old school trainers. HELL..they used to say weight training made you muscle bound or do not ride a bike it will make your muscles tight ::). i from my experience will tell you two things first of all all this HIT cardio is not as new as you think. it used to be called Interval training or Fartlek training, i was doing this back in 1985 ! The second thing i will tell you is this if you are going to do HIT cardio do 15-20 HARD and if you canīt do this do longer cardio because you will still get results. I bet i could take some HIT Cardio people for a 45 min run and i know they will not keep up. For most people 30 mins Biking/rowing/running 2-3 times a week is best for Heart and lung Fitness and it will aid in fat loss, remember you have to train week in week out without killing yourself. Set a realistic goal and stick to it. Like weight training itīs Sticking to it and regular training.


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: Donny on March 13, 2013, 01:42:29 AM
70% weights 30% cardio
yes sounds about right but i do about 40% cardio but thatīs just me. For most people i would argree with 70-30.


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: Donny on March 13, 2013, 09:09:58 AM
yes donny, ppl always look for short ,easy way out.

well, there is short wway, but its not sooooo much fun, the oth diet will work faster than anything else, but its far from easy.

the key is long term diet change and behaviour change.

if one dont keep somewhat dieting after reached his goal and goes back to old habbits, he will soonn lok like shit again

theres one girl i help with dieting, she wants sixpack for spring-summer.shed diet somewhat, but drink gallons of alc on weekends.poor results,always told her to cut out the alc until shes at her goal and then she can have SOME here and then, so she stoped drinking and guess what, that, something like my diet plus an apple a day(haha) and frequent workouts and bit cardio and she already has sixpack after 3 weeks off the alc.not full shreded, but its there,shines though.

im very proud of her,she was somewhat busty before.
yes i agree diet is still key. what you donīt eat..you donīt have to lose. I just like to punish myself...running  ;D


Title: Re: Cardio / Weights Ratios - Cutting
Post by: Donny on March 14, 2013, 11:06:33 AM
yes, that, or move around more.

but theres a balance point somewhwere, everyone needs to find it for themselves.can eat 4000calories daily, but will have to be very very active to use that all up.

and it certainly doesnt help what the companies put into their "foods", look up "bliss point".


yes a very good point. Most foods are polluted now.