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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Necrosis on March 16, 2013, 05:40:13 AM
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http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/house-republicans-unanimously-vote-down-minimum-wage-hike
Voted down like a boss, small businesses wouldn't be able to hire apparently. Meanwhile back in reality Costco is shitting in their mouths with this philosophy and Henry Ford thinks you are a retard. There is a tipping point obviously with respect to paying to much, but this is absurd, 9 bucks an hour?
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Well, what do you think it should be?
Not all small business owners can afford an artificial hike in the cost of labor or the off shoot that come from increased input costs. Is the world going to melt down if Min. Wage goes to 9 bucks an hour? Probably not, but this whole issue is another distraction and misdirection.
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They think every business is racking in billions of dollars.
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Why is the government making it their business to force an artificial wage floor on the economy?
Why does government force minimum wage but doesn't enforce a ceiling on all occupations, including themselves?
What proof is there that a minimum wage helps the economy at all?
Why not allow the market to determine by itself what the wages should be?
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Why is the government making it their business to force an artificial wage floor on the economy?
Why does government force minimum wage but doesn't enforce a ceiling on all occupations, including themselves?
What proof is there that a minimum wage helps the economy at all?
Why not allow the market to determine by itself what the wages should be?
The Federal Government is slowly but surely destroying the ability for small businesses to exist or to even start and maybe medium sized businesses are next. The large mega-corporations are loving this as it allows them to further monopolize the market.
That is the ultimate goal, eliminate competition via:
-Raising barriers to entry for markets
-Using lobbying to create regulations/taxes/artificial wage hikes etc. the make it prohibitive for businesses to start, expand or move into other markets
-Anything related to the above.
The % of people in the U.S. that work for small/med. sized businesses will continue to decrease. That's bad. Real bad.
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http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/house-republicans-unanimously-vote-down-minimum-wage-hike
Voted down like a boss, small businesses wouldn't be able to hire apparently. Meanwhile back in reality Costco is shitting in their mouths with this philosophy and Henry Ford thinks you are a retard. There is a tipping point obviously with respect to paying to much, but this is absurd, 9 bucks an hour?
Just because one business pays their workers more does not mean anything. If the minimum wage is increased, then the price of ALL GOODS for everyone else will be increased as well. Why wouldn`t it be? A retailer or service provider now knows you and everyone else will have a bit more money in their pocket so why not raise the cost of milk or lettuce another dollar or two?
Bad idea all around.
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Just because one business pays their workers more does not mean anything. If the minimum wage is increased, then the price of ALL GOODS for everyone else will be increased as well. Why wouldn`t it be? A retailer or service provider now knows you and everyone else will have a bit more money in their pocket so why not raise the cost of milk or lettuce another dollar or two?
Bad idea all around.
Wouldn't that leave them vulnerable to be outdone by a competitor?
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Look at places like California and New York where everyone gets paid more for crappy jobs even and look how expensive it is to live there, just to eat. People literally live on top of each other in 500 square feet of nonsense for a million dollars and more. Fuck no. I will have none of that. This is what happens when you artificially start raising wages, the costs of everything go up.
I do not want the rest of the country looking like New York or California at all. I hate those places.
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Wouldn't that leave them vulnerable to be outdone by a competitor?
Not if everyone raises the price which is what happens. I can`t think of a lone product today that undercuts every other competitors product so much, that there is a huge difference. Can you?
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Not if everyone raises the price which is what happens. I can`t think of a lone product today that undercuts every other competitors product so much, that there is a huge difference. Can you?
Then I'd say it would leave the door open all the wider for such a thing.
Is the argument that people would stop trying to make money?
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I appreciate this argument and understand the varying points of view.....but, any increase in the price of inputs/labor will always be passed along to the consumer.
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Then I'd say it would leave the door open all the wider for such a thing.
Is the argument that people would stop trying to make money?
No, the argument is that people will make the same or more money because companies and corporations will know they can get it because of a wage increase.
Do you want to pay 6 dollars for milk or lettuce?
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To make it perfectly clear, we're all on the same page with this. We don't want to see our fellow citizens scrounging to live. We just have different ideas about trying to accomplish it.
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No, the argument is that people will make the same or more money because companies and corporations will know they can get it because of a wage increase.
Do you want to pay 6 dollars for milk or lettuce?
So you'd suggest that there would be an increase in illegal collusion?
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So you'd suggest that there would be an increase in illegal collusion?
Nope. If I knew you had 10 dollar in your pocket every week and now you have 15 dollars in your pocket every week, I would raise the price of my trinket to coincide with the fact that you have more money to spend.
Its a simple numbers game. If I know that whatever million people are going to have more money to spend, I can raise the price of say, entry level goods, such as food a bit more. Now that everyone has more money to spend and the minimum bottom line can be easily met, I can make more profit by raising the price of my goods. Nothing illegal, just inflating the price a bit to make more profit because I know more people have greater purchasing power.
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Nope. If I knew you had 10 dollar in your pocket every week and now you have 15 dollars in your pocket every week, I would raise the price of my trinket to coincide with the fact that you have more money to spend.
Its a simple numbers game. If I know that whatever million people are going to have more money to spend, I can raise the price of say, entry level goods, such as food a bit more. Now that everyone has more money to spend and the minimum bottom line can be easily met, I can make more profit by raising the price of my goods. Nothing illegal, just inflating the price a bit to make more profit because I know more people have greater purchasing power.
If that's the case, then why aren't businesses behind it?
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This is a game being run on people, trying to cause them to process information in a certain way.
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Don't be fooled.
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If that's the case, then why aren't businesses behind it?
Because they don`t want to pay their workers any more than they have to. Plus they don`t want to raise the cost of living any more than it already is. Its unnecessary.
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I'm not for all of these wage increases, but none of my guys that work for me make under $12hr so it only affects me indirectly.
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I'm not for all of these wage increases, but none of my guys that work for me make under $12hr so it only affects me indirectly.
IF you were hiring and someone came to you with the necessary qualifications and said, I will do the same job for 9 dollars an hour, I don`t need the 12, would you hire him instead. Just curious really. I think more people should do that in general. Go on a job interview and say they will take less than the salary being offered. I bet they get hired faster.
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Because they don`t want to pay their workers any more than they have to. Plus they don`t want to raise the cost of living any more than it already is. Its unnecessary.
I'd say you nailed it, right here.
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IF you were hiring and someone came to you with the necessary qualifications and said, I will do the same job for 9 dollars an hour, I don`t need the 12, would you hire him instead. Just curious really. I think more people should do that in general. Go on a job interview and say they will take less than the salary being offered. I bet they get hired faster.
Bump for an answer from IG400.
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http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/house-republicans-unanimously-vote-down-minimum-wage-hike
Voted down like a boss, small businesses wouldn't be able to hire apparently. Meanwhile back in reality Costco is shitting in their mouths with this philosophy and Henry Ford thinks you are a retard. There is a tipping point obviously with respect to paying to much, but this is absurd, 9 bucks an hour?
You mean the Sandy Aid bill that had more pork than a Texas BBQ in July?
As for the minimum wage, you seem to forget that such will lead only to hours being cut, people getting laid/off and the cost passed to the consumer.
Besides, minimum wage isn't designed to ensure someone can make a living. When I started working, minimum wage was was $3.75. That's designed for part-time jobs for high-school and college kids, NOT to survive or raise a family.
Hence, it's another motivator to get a decent education.
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Just because one business pays their workers more does not mean anything. If the minimum wage is increased, then the price of ALL GOODS for everyone else will be increased as well. Why wouldn`t it be? A retailer or service provider now knows you and everyone else will have a bit more money in their pocket so why not raise the cost of milk or lettuce another dollar or two?
Bad idea all around.
I'd never thought I'd say this about an Adonis post but.....AAAAAAAMEN!!
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Not if everyone raises the price which is what happens. I can`t think of a lone product today that undercuts every other competitors product so much, that there is a huge difference. Can you?
Places with far higher minimum wage have far lower levels of UE. Slave labor is your logical conclusion. There is clearly a point in which the minimum wage fails to provide sufficient funds to live on. The minimum wage buys you less now per hour then 50 years ago. Increased minimum wage means that people will be able to get off government backed programs and become self-sufficient. This would help the government with less of those on assistance etc. It is a no brainer in my book.
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IF you were hiring and someone came to you with the necessary qualifications and said, I will do the same job for 9 dollars an hour, I don`t need the 12, would you hire him instead. Just curious really. I think more people should do that in general. Go on a job interview and say they will take less than the salary being offered. I bet they get hired faster.
you sound like you have never worked in your life.
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You mean the Sandy Aid bill that had more pork than a Texas BBQ in July?
As for the minimum wage, you seem to forget that such will lead only to hours being cut, people getting laid/off and the cost passed to the consumer.
Besides, minimum wage isn't designed to ensure someone can make a living. When I started working, minimum wage was was $3.75. That's designed for part-time jobs for high-school and college kids, NOT to survive or raise a family.
Hence, it's another motivator to get a decent education.
heheh you are foolish, you say pork cus they said pork how cute. You are like a robot from fox or something.
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http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/house-republicans-unanimously-vote-down-minimum-wage-hike
Voted down like a boss, small businesses wouldn't be able to hire apparently. Meanwhile back in reality Costco is shitting in their mouths with this philosophy and Henry Ford thinks you are a retard. There is a tipping point obviously with respect to paying to much, but this is absurd, 9 bucks an hour?
Not the governments place. This is the business of the employer and employee.
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Places with far higher minimum wage have far lower levels of UE. Slave labor is your logical conclusion. There is clearly a point in which the minimum wage fails to provide sufficient funds to live on. The minimum wage buys you less now per hour then 50 years ago. Increased minimum wage means that people will be able to get off government backed programs and become self-sufficient. This would help the government with less of those on assistance etc. It is a no brainer in my book.
Minimum wage jobs aren't there to provide a living wage.. lol
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You mean the Sandy Aid bill that had more pork than a Texas BBQ in July?
As for the minimum wage, you seem to forget that such will lead only to hours being cut, people getting laid/off and the cost passed to the consumer.
Why wouldn't this open up opportunity for competitors who, at the very least, would accept lower profit at the owner-end?
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you sound like you have never worked in your life.
I do more in a day than you do in a year.
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heheh you are foolish, you say pork cus they said pork how cute. You are like a robot from fox or something.
The term has existed long before Fox News ever existed. What is it with libs like you, dredging up Fox News, when your silly nonsensical quips get ripped apart?
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Places with far higher minimum wage have far lower levels of UE. Slave labor is your logical conclusion. There is clearly a point in which the minimum wage fails to provide sufficient funds to live on. The minimum wage buys you less now per hour then 50 years ago. Increased minimum wage means that people will be able to get off government backed programs and become self-sufficient. This would help the government with less of those on assistance etc. It is a no brainer in my book.
Increased minimum wage does no such thing. And, as mentioned earlier, it's not designed to ensure the employees make a living.
That's like saying that flipping burgers at McDonalds should pay $60,000 a year, simply because someone has a wife and kids.
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Why wouldn't this open up opportunity for competitors who, at the very least, would accept lower profit at the owner-end?
if the market is competitive now and we raise all the wages for employees for all the firms, how is there an opportunity for one firm to undercut costs and gain an advantage?
NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!
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if the market is competitive now
By "competitive", do you mean to say they're trying to profit more than one another?
and we raise all the wages for employees for all the firms, how is there an opportunity for one firm to undercut costs and gain an advantage?
Where has that been suggested?
NOW SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!!
Please don't make me take your fat ass to this pavement.
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By "competitive", do you mean to say they're trying to profit more than one another?
Where has that been suggested?
Please don't make me take your fat ass to this pavement.
by comptetive I mean that competiting firms have reached a parity in terms of what it costs to bring their products/services to market.
As for the 2nd part, raising the minimum wage will raise the costs of labor will raise to direct costs of many businesses it will also raise alot of th SG&A costs of alot of businesses. Even if the business pays its workers more than the prospective hike, they likely have vendors or clients who do not which will mean their vendor have to raise their prices making raising their direct cost and their clients will have less money to spend as they will have a smaller margin especially if the service/product they provide isnt a direct cost for their client.
What results is those firms who cant adapt and survive going out of business and those that are left gaining the rest of the market share...IE LESS COMPETITION
now please shut the fuck up you dumb ass
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by comptetive I mean that competiting firms have reached a parity in terms of what it costs to bring their products/services to market.
As for the 2nd part, raising the minimum wage will raise the costs of labor will raise to direct costs of many businesses it will also raise alot of th SG&A costs of alot of businesses. Even if the business pays its workers more than the prospective hike, they likely have vendors or clients who do not which will mean their vendor have to raise their prices making raising their direct cost and their clients will have less money to spend as they will have a smaller margin especially if the service/product they provide isnt a direct cost for their client.
What results is those firms who cant adapt and survive going out of business and those that are left gaining the rest of the market share...IE LESS COMPETITION
now please shut the fuck up you dumb ass
So a competitor that will make the minimum wage work, will take the business from he who couldn't.
Right, Tony?
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So a competitor that will make the minimum wage work, will take the business from he who couldn't.
Right, Tony?
those companies that dont have enough margins or to high expenses generally go out of business those that dont generally stay in business.
This is not a novel idea, now please shut up
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those companies that dont have enough margins or to high expenses generally go out of business those that dont generally stay in business.
So you're suggesting that an option should exist for a company to demonstrate that it cannot afford it, and therefore should be given an exemption. Can't say I disagree with that.
This is not a novel idea, now please shut up
If you know your shit, you should be able to explain it.
So why do you suppose you can't explain it?
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Here's the thing... if raising the min wage to $9/hr puts an employer out of business, he's not managing his business properly. How many employees does s/he have? Those who earn hourly get hours on the schedule. They will either absorb the difference into their profit margins or simply reduce the amount of hours an employee works to fit their payroll requirements.
To say, $9/hr is not to live on, ...well, in this economy, many people unfortunately have no choice but to live on that. If as a result of Obamacare, employers are cutting back on the amount of hours an employee gets, ...well, I think a slight bump is called for. Your economy cannot afford to pay people so niggardly as to make social assistance an incentive.
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Here's the thing... if raising the min wage to $9/hr puts an employer out of business, he's not managing his business properly. How many employees does s/he have? Those who earn hourly get hours on the schedule. They will either absorb the difference into their profit margins or simply reduce the amount of hours an employee works to fit their payroll requirements.
To say, $9/hr is not to live on, ...well, in this economy, many people unfortunately have no choice but to live on that. If as a result of Obamacare, employers are cutting back on the amount of hours an employee gets, ...well, I think a slight bump is called for. Your economy cannot afford to pay people so niggardly as to make social assistance an incentive.
Raising the minimum wage will raise everything else, electric, food, goods. Companies and Corporations aren`t stupid and know if someone has more money in their pocket, then up goes the price. This is not good for anyone at all. Do you want the whole country to live like New York or California?
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Raising the minimum wage will raise everything else, electric, food, goods. Companies and Corporations aren`t stupid and know if someone has more money in their pocket, then up goes the price. This is not good for anyone at all. Do you want the whole country to live like New York or California?
True Adonis, I don't know how to tell you this, ...but prices are going to increase much further regardless of whether the minimum wage does or not. That endangers businesses far more than a meager increase in labour costs. If your customers cannot afford to buy it, ...they will either steal it, ...or it will sit on your shelves and rot. Either way, it's no good for business or consumers. A bump in minimum wage will however, temporarily quell the growing angst felt by consumers as they see much needed staples become inaccessible.
Besides, ...they know they need to do this. Everything they do, is the result of trial & error which they have perfected overseas. They've seen the food riots in other countries, and they know what will happen in the USA when consumers reach that boiling point. The difference in the USA is you have a HUGE consumer base that is not quite as used to going without as others around the world, ...and they are ARMED! That's a poop storm no administration wants to have to deal with, because as Gerald Celente is so fond of saying... "When people have nothing left to lose, ..they lose it!" Increasing the minimum wage does buy a little time, ...and with all the QE going on, should create a bit more liquidity to facilitate lending to businesses. Unfortunately it devalues the money already in circulation, but it does buy them a little time. The question is how much time is left?
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Funny thing is, most anti-citizen economic arguments are based on an idea that people will stop trying to make money.
Needless to say, that's quite a small threat.
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So you're suggesting that an option should exist for a company to demonstrate that it cannot afford it, and therefore should be given an exemption. Can't say I disagree with that.
If you know your shit, you should be able to explain it.
So why do you suppose you can't explain it?
no Im saying the govt should stay out of it and let the market decide the wage.
I as well as many others in this thread have explained it, the problem is you dont seem to be able to understand it
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Bump for an answer from IG400.
Answering both yours and Adonis' question. Your question states if they are qualified and wanted to do the job for less, would I hire them over the other guy wanting more per hour. I'd be foolish to pay more, all things being equal, but, that doesn't happen. 12hr is about the threshold for your bottom rung construction type laborer. 9hr I would think would be your average Walmart shelf stocker, someone doing no real manual labor. My guys are required to work hard, and long hours at times, which they are compensated for through overtime. I literally pay out to a guy making 12hr over a thousand dollars a week when we get rolling. But, I also make sure they always get their 40hrs. If we have a lull inbetween jobs, I bring them in to clean and service equipment, and usually buy them lunch on days like this. I also give them off the week between Christmas and New Years with pay plus bonuses. You may think if I was paying less, I would just pocket the money, but I wouldn't. I would use it to hire more people, because a 9hr person is under qualified and probably not smart enough to handle the task at hand. There is however, a threshold where you can pay more, but get the same person. My highest paid guy makes 18hr, and is not 50% more qualified than my 12 hr field laborer. So, I guess that answers the question, that yes, I would, and do pay the higher wage.
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Raise the minimum wage to $15 per hour. Then eliminate welfare and food stamps while cutting employer taxes. If someone wants to eat, then they will get off their ass and get a job.
Something to think about. ;D
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Answering both yours and Adonis' question. Your question states if they are qualified and wanted to do the job for less, would I hire them over the other guy wanting more per hour. I'd be foolish to pay more, all things being equal, but, that doesn't happen. 12hr is about the threshold for your bottom rung construction type laborer. 9hr I would think would be your average Walmart shelf stocker, someone doing no real manual labor. My guys are required to work hard, and long hours at times, which they are compensated for through overtime. I literally pay out to a guy making 12hr over a thousand dollars a week when we get rolling. But, I also make sure they always get their 40hrs. If we have a lull inbetween jobs, I bring them in to clean and service equipment, and usually buy them lunch on days like this. I also give them off the week between Christmas and New Years with pay plus bonuses. You may think if I was paying less, I would just pocket the money, but I wouldn't. I would use it to hire more people, because a 9hr person is under qualified and probably not smart enough to handle the task at hand. There is however, a threshold where you can pay more, but get the same person. My highest paid guy makes 18hr, and is not 50% more qualified than my 12 hr field laborer. So, I guess that answers the question, that yes, I would, and do pay the higher wage.
Very good. I was just making an unrelated point actually, in that if more people would opt to take less, they would be hired a lot faster. People coming out of college bitch and moan about not getting this or that job and demand or expect the salary or more being offered. They should go in there and offer to take a bit less and I am sure they will get hired or at least increase their chances.
Nobody does this and its mind boggling to me.
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I do more in a day than you do in a year.
What is it you do for a living? I have no idea.
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Very good. I was just making an unrelated point actually, in that if more people would opt to take less, they would be hired a lot faster. People coming out of college bitch and moan about not getting this or that job and demand or expect the salary or more being offered. They should go in there and offer to take a bit less and I am sure they will get hired or at least increase their chances.
Nobody does this and its mind boggling to me.
No doubt. I have a German tutor who is studying for her phd and knows four languages fluently. She complains about not bein able to find a job and complains a bit about money. I asked her once where shed applied, but she never once said anything that was out of her field. I have a degree in psychology with a minor in history, yet took a job outside of my degree but it got me to where I am at now. Some people just don't realize they are the only thing that holds them back.
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heheh you are foolish, you say pork cus they said pork how cute. You are like a robot from fox or something.
Good 4 year old response fake doctor.
Now why don't actually address the matter?
That bill was loaded by NY lawmakers with pet projects, pork, or anything else you wanna call it.
And this is not a left/right issue. Both left and right NY congresspeople tried to abuse this bill knowing that most dumb people (like you) would just read the headline and be completely oblivious to what they tried to pull.
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Good 4 year old response fake doctor.
Now why don't actually address the matter?
That bill was loaded by NY lawmakers with pet projects, pork, or anything else you wanna call it.
And this is not a left/right issue. Both left and right NY congresspeople tried to abuse this bill knowing that most dumb people (like you) would just read the headline and be completely oblivious to what they tried to pull.
I generally don't take anything serious from someone who has shown to be dead wrong on subject after subject. This guy doesn't believe in evolution, denies the big bang, believes the flood occured and in talking snakes. Based on this I assumed a 4 year old response would be appropriate.
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I generally don't take anything serious from someone who has shown to be dead wrong on subject after subject. This guy doesn't believe in evolution, denies the big bang, believes the flood occured and in talking snakes. Based on this I assumed a 4 year old response would be appropriate.
I could care less about his religious beliefs.
They tried to fleece everyone and use a disaster knowing full well what the headlines would read.
As to the minimum wage issue, I think it should be left to the states. Some I believe are higher than the Federal, but either way, this should be a State matter, not a Federal one, IMO.
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I generally don't take anything serious from someone who has shown to be dead wrong on subject after subject. This guy doesn't believe in evolution, denies the big bang, believes the flood occured and in talking snakes. Based on this I assumed a 4 year old response would be appropriate.
In other words, since your basis premise just got shot to pieces, you dredge up crap that has ZILCH to do with the subject at hand.
Bottom line: The Sandy Aid bill is saturated in swine. Your trying to dodge that or defend this mess, by bringing up evolution and the Flood, shows just how utterly pathetic your wimpering really is.