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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: old-school-lifter on June 12, 2013, 03:24:14 PM

Title: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: old-school-lifter on June 12, 2013, 03:24:14 PM
from another forum

"I can back this up at Phoenix Comic Con 2012 I went up to his booth with my complete Incredible Hulk set and asked him to autograph. Lou asked if I wanted it personalized. I said no I don't like my stuff personalized. Lou then said $100. I thought he was joking with me so I pulled the 30 or 40 out the online con's site his auto cost was going to be. His handler said no its 100 because that price is for his 8x10 photo at the 30 or 40 when I said what the online price was. I walked away to speak with guest relations letting them know what the online price says and etc. They called up to find out what the deal was when they looked over the contract Lou did not sign a contract in which the price guaranteed what he would sign for. Lets just say Lou caused enough trouble last year to where the con didn't want him back. The media guests hate him because of his weird habits. George Takei told me he is one of the most inconsiderate man you can meet he will go into the staff/guest lounge remove all the meat from the sandwiches for himself leaving nothing for the guests. This story was also backed up by Brent Spiner as well. "
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: hench on June 12, 2013, 03:38:39 PM
sounds about right
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: old-school-lifter on June 12, 2013, 03:47:23 PM
so you can understand the general public's negative perceptions of BB's
steroid junkies, cheap, selfish, protein obsessed  :)
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: arce1988 on June 12, 2013, 03:52:09 PM
 :D ;D
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Skeletor on June 12, 2013, 03:55:11 PM
Arnold has to show up and humble Lou every once in a while.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: anabolichalo on June 12, 2013, 03:55:23 PM
lol @ stealing meat
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Mr Nobody on June 12, 2013, 03:56:52 PM
Does he even lift anymore?
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: anabolichalo on June 12, 2013, 03:57:47 PM
why does he sound like he has downs ???
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: old-school-lifter on June 12, 2013, 03:57:55 PM
Arnolds a sadistic bastard
still getting off on screwing up Lou
and charging more thna lou for a pic  ;D
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Disgusted on June 12, 2013, 03:58:05 PM
Here's one. Years ago I went to the warehouse of a particular weight equipment company to purchase some stuff for my gym. So I'm in the office of the owner and I happen to see a rolodex card on his desk with Lou's info. I knew that the time Lou was their spokesman. So I said hey how's things working out with big Lou? The guy rolled his eyes and said he was a nightmare to work with. Said his wife handled all the business aspects and she was even worse.  ;D Lou didn't sign another contract with them.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: old-school-lifter on June 12, 2013, 03:58:31 PM
btw, Lou has been rocking a rug since his late 20's
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Disgusted on June 12, 2013, 04:01:41 PM
btw, Lou has been rocking a rug since his late 20's

That actually surprises me. Never would have guessed.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: SCRUBS on June 12, 2013, 04:34:13 PM
We aren`t going to get a bill for opening a thread with his name on it are we? ;D

Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: the trainer on June 12, 2013, 04:40:43 PM
anytime i see lou at a convention i am going to take out my phone and snap a photo to piss him off.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: The ChemistV2 on June 12, 2013, 05:07:51 PM
That actually surprises me. Never would have guessed.
Don't tell me you actually believe Ferrigno wore a wig in his 20's. That's totally ridiculous.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Wiggs on June 12, 2013, 05:37:55 PM
Now I don't feel guilty when Arnold makes fun of Lou. Matter of fact we should encourage Arnold. What's his handle here?
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: hipolito mejia on June 12, 2013, 05:52:12 PM
"Yes, I took all the fucking meat from the sandwiches and ate it in one sitting ! ...gonna go bitch about it on GetBig?"
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: biff on June 12, 2013, 05:55:38 PM
"Yes, I took all the fucking meat and ate it in one sitting  ...gonna go bitch about it on GetBig?"

just how big of a dildo are you capable of sliding up the hole of your butt?
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Croatch on June 12, 2013, 05:58:28 PM
Lou: Charging $20 a pic at schmoeing events
Arnold: Making 20 million a movie
 ;D
Classic.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Psychopath on June 12, 2013, 06:02:02 PM
Fuck this guy.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: hipolito mejia on June 12, 2013, 06:04:55 PM
Lou: Charging $20 a pic at schmoeing events
Arnold: Making 20 million a movie
 ;D
Classic.

Then you have the rest of the bodybuilding industry doing G4P and not getting half the people willing to be humiliated every year by Lou in order to get a silly autograph....  and pay him in top of that.


Even classier.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Nails on June 12, 2013, 06:08:22 PM
Money grubbin jew
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Mr Nobody on June 12, 2013, 06:12:15 PM
Arnold beat the piss out of him.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: hipolito mejia on June 12, 2013, 06:13:35 PM
"A table with mayo and pickle only sandwiches? .......Don't know what you're talking about "



 ;D
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Submissionfytr on June 12, 2013, 06:21:51 PM
I went to college and was friends with his niece. She said Lou sued her dad (his brother) for using his own last name (Ferrigno) on the business he had selling weights and gym equipment. Wanted huge money cuz it was HIS name people were associating equipment with, never mind this guy had this business and store for like 30 years! A real scum bag.

Oh and it's been like 10 years but the niece was very hot ;-)
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Schnauzer on June 12, 2013, 06:27:34 PM
Guys, let's not forget: Big Louie always gives 110%
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Skeletor on June 12, 2013, 06:30:34 PM
I went to college and was friends with his niece. She said Lou sued her dad (his brother) for using his own last name (Ferrigno) on the business he had selling weights and gym equipment. Wanted huge money cuz it was HIS name people were associating equipment with, never mind this guy had this business and store for like 30 years! A real scum bag.


I remember that, it was 2006.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Bad Boy Dazza on June 12, 2013, 10:15:55 PM
Dude was clearly planning to sell the hulk set, Lou realised it and wanted in on the profits.  Good on him.

from another forum

"I can back this up at Phoenix Comic Con 2012 I went up to his booth with my complete Incredible Hulk set and asked him to autograph. Lou asked if I wanted it personalized. I said no I don't like my stuff personalized. Lou then said $100. I thought he was joking with me so I pulled the 30 or 40 out the online con's site his auto cost was going to be. His handler said no its 100 because that price is for his 8x10 photo at the 30 or 40 when I said what the online price was. I walked away to speak with guest relations letting them know what the online price says and etc. They called up to find out what the deal was when they looked over the contract Lou did not sign a contract in which the price guaranteed what he would sign for. Lets just say Lou caused enough trouble last year to where the con didn't want him back. The media guests hate him because of his weird habits. George Takei told me he is one of the most inconsiderate man you can meet he will go into the staff/guest lounge remove all the meat from the sandwiches for himself leaving nothing for the guests. This story was also backed up by Brent Spiner as well. "

Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: dj181 on June 12, 2013, 10:20:00 PM
Money grubbin jew

i thought he was a dego wop ???
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Master Blaster on June 12, 2013, 10:53:44 PM
funny thread   ;D  !!!
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: a_ahmed on June 12, 2013, 11:14:50 PM
Money grubbin jew

Pretty sure he was Italian not Jew.

Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: gib on June 13, 2013, 01:22:19 AM
Arnold has to show up and humble Lou every once in a while.


The thing is Arnold is ALWAYS in actor mode. Its served him well. Lou never "got it". Xyzz by the way, was another guy who understood how to do this.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: rocket on June 13, 2013, 02:40:37 AM
Dude was clearly planning to sell the hulk set, Lou realised it and wanted in on the profits.  Good on him.

You nailed it.  Whether the dude was planning to sell it or not is really moot - he said he didn't want it personalised and that screams "fuckwit profiteer".

Still, if you know how Lou is, you might say no to personalisation based on the fact that you're already sacrificing your self esteem standing infront of a sulking ferrigno, paying him $30-40 for his twelve seconds of time - so having to listen to him bark "well, it's $15 for me to write your name next to mine" might be just a tad too far.


Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Teutonic Knight on June 13, 2013, 02:48:22 AM
Fuck this guy.

Yeah, screw him !
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Nails on June 13, 2013, 09:29:34 AM
I heard Lou Ferrigno was trying to sue Marvel Comics for using his likeness when they drew up THE HULK
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: hardgainerj on June 13, 2013, 10:04:33 AM
are you srs?
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: wild willie on June 13, 2013, 01:07:02 PM
Pretty sure he was Italian not Jew.


lol!!!
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Nails on June 13, 2013, 01:20:35 PM
Pretty sure he was Italian not Jew.



Yes , he is an Italian jew from new york
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: doriancutlerman on June 13, 2013, 01:33:52 PM
I went to college and was friends with his niece. She said Lou sued her dad (his brother) for using his own last name (Ferrigno) on the business he had selling weights and gym equipment. Wanted huge money cuz it was HIS name people were associating equipment with, never mind this guy had this business and store for like 30 years! A real scum bag.

Oh and it's been like 10 years but the niece was very hot ;-)

I remember that.  Suing his own brother as if dumb-fuck Louie was the only Ferrigno in the world :roll:  It's not as if his brother used Louie's likeness, like even a silhouette of his physique, to make money.

He's an angry, small-minded man in a big gorilla body.  Ironically, his behavior's also a perfect fit for how Little Man Syndrome guys act.

Just as a prank, I'd love to see Noah Steere or someone of that ilk walk right up to him and take his picture.  What would Lou do, throw his hearing aid at him? :D  Nah.  Lou would just stand there like a bitch and glare.

Documentation of THAT might be worth $20 ;)
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: irishdave on June 13, 2013, 01:43:51 PM
I met him before and I asked him for an autograph and he told me "20 bucks" and I only had 5 bucks left in my pocket (I was only 9) and he told me to go fuck myself and farted in my face as he turned heel and walked away
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: El Diablo Blanco on June 13, 2013, 01:53:57 PM
Tbombz asked Lou to autograph his cock.  Initially Lou said $20 but when he was only able to fit "LO" on it , he charged him $15.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: ukjeff on June 13, 2013, 01:56:27 PM
I met him before and I asked him for an autograph and he told me "20 bucks" and I only had 5 bucks left in my pocket (I was only 9) and he told me to go fuck myself and farted in my face as he turned heel and walked away

 ;D
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: dj181 on June 13, 2013, 02:16:59 PM
Yes , he is an Italian jew from new york

so he's a greaseball heb ???
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: BIG AL MCKECHNIE on June 13, 2013, 02:58:30 PM
No wonder Jimmy Thomson threatened to shove his hearing aid up his dad's arse when he had an altercation with them back in the 70's.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: funk51 on June 13, 2013, 03:10:35 PM
 :'( big louie.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: woodman on June 13, 2013, 06:43:34 PM
His dad was a Lt.in the Nypd and was a prick! Many of his underlings became sgts and lts in later life( one sgt and one lt were some of my bosses)and would go on about how vindictive and weasely he was..many ghetto cops wished for him to get a ghetto stomping to wake him up!
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Fortress on June 13, 2013, 07:00:11 PM
When I worked at MuscleMag, Louie would call up to speak with Kennedy. I often was asked to speak with him and give some story so Bob wouldn't have to talk with him. Louie was always rude, arrogant and annoying.

He flew to Toronto during these years to help celebrate the opening of a gym in the north part of the city (now long gone). You know, payed to be there and sign autographs, etc. A friend of a friend was a huge fan and had drawn a pic of Louie as The Hulk. He presented it to Ferrigno and ol' Lou barely glanced at it, threw it behind his seat, and then he said, "Next!"

Guy's a first-rate schmuck.  
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: hipolito mejia on June 13, 2013, 07:18:58 PM
Dude was clearly planning to sell the hulk set, Lou realised it and wanted in on the profits.  Good on him.



Bingo. 
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on June 13, 2013, 09:01:46 PM
Lou's problem is he doesn't know how to hide the fact that he's a complete sociopath. Arnold is brilliant at it. Watching Lou crawl in his own skin on that Trump show was extremely telling of the man's mental status...
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Thespritz0 on June 13, 2013, 09:23:54 PM
When I worked at MuscleMag, Louie would call up to speak with Kennedy. I often was asked to speak with him and give some story so Bob wouldn't have to talk with him. Louie was always rude, arrogant and annoying.

He flew to Toronto during these years to help celebrate the opening of a gym in the north part of the city (now long gone). You know, payed to be there and sign autographs, etc. A friend of a friend was a huge fan and had drawn a pic of Louie as The Hulk. He presented it to Ferrigno and ol' Lou barely glanced at it, threw it behind his seat, and then he said, "Next!"

Guy's a first-rate schmuck.  
^^
WHAT would he be calling Musclemag for??  I thought he was mostly a Weider boy?
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Thespritz0 on June 13, 2013, 09:26:53 PM
His dad was a Lt.in the Nypd and was a prick! Many of his underlings became sgts and lts in later life( one sgt and one lt were some of my bosses)and would go on about how vindictive and weasely he was..many ghetto cops wished for him to get a ghetto stomping to wake him up!
^^
I did read a story from the early 1960's where Matt Ferrigno (then a patrol Constable) stopped a car full of Brooklyn criminals, a few tried to get out and fight him, and he beat them until backup came...
I'll give him credit for that, he was no coward!
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Primemuscle on June 13, 2013, 09:27:37 PM
why does he sound like he has downs ???

He's deaf. Deaf people often sound different when they speak.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Primemuscle on June 13, 2013, 09:31:52 PM
Pretty sure he was Italian not Jew.



Was? Is he dead?
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Primemuscle on June 13, 2013, 09:34:11 PM
I met him before and I asked him for an autograph and he told me "20 bucks" and I only had 5 bucks left in my pocket (I was only 9) and he told me to go fuck myself and farted in my face as he turned heel and walked away

So he's a child abuser now?
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Primemuscle on June 13, 2013, 09:38:35 PM
Lou's problem is he doesn't know how to hide the fact that he's a complete sociopath. Arnold is brilliant at it. Watching Lou crawl in his own skin on that Trump show was extremely telling of the man's mental status...

He's a sociopath failure then. Sociopaths are generally very likeable until the kill you.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Primemuscle on June 13, 2013, 09:43:11 PM
I don't know Lou personally. I have no experience dealing with him either good or bad. What I do know is that I wouldn't pay anyone to sign their photo and especially not someone whose claim to fame is playing a "not so Jolly Green Giant" on a stupid television show.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Slik on June 13, 2013, 09:46:44 PM
Every time I've net Lou he's been rude. I have deaf aquanitances too so I know that communication is a challenge. But his communication problems have very little to do with his actions. He has a people problem. Its a shame because he has so many fans but he seems like a very very bitter person. I imagine when his fans meet him most would be as disappointed as I was.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: cswol on June 13, 2013, 09:46:57 PM
I standing one armed concentration curled 180 lb dumbell in front of lou, and then said thats how you train, he just looked with his mouth wide open sitting in shock, in the front room of golds venice
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Childish///AMG on June 13, 2013, 09:47:25 PM
He is just looking out for his "Senior" years
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Primemuscle on June 13, 2013, 09:51:25 PM
He is just looking out for his "Senior" years

Well then I wish him luck. He'll be long forgotten soon.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: gmflex on June 13, 2013, 10:17:19 PM
Marvel should take his right to use the hulk likeness ...
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Tapeworm on June 14, 2013, 02:45:08 AM
Maybe you should just get a job already, Lou.  Can you do anything?
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: syntaxmachine on June 14, 2013, 02:18:50 PM
I knew that the time Lou was their spokesman.

Yes, well, what sort of results were they expecting?
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Slik on June 14, 2013, 07:25:18 PM
Yes, well, what sort of results were they expecting?
prolly just some simple respect to the hand that was feeding him.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: delta9mda on June 14, 2013, 08:44:26 PM
On the early 90s I worked at paradise gym in Miami and Lou came in. I think he was doing a movie. He was done training so I asked for an autograph. He signed for me and didn't say a word. I don't think he was getting the 20 bucks back then. Still have the auto
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Fortress on June 14, 2013, 09:52:31 PM
^^
WHAT would he be calling Musclemag for??  I thought he was mostly a Weider boy?

This was during his comeback attempts and he was wanting Bob to send him all his books (?). He always wanted stuff from Kennedy.















Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Tapeworm on June 14, 2013, 09:57:45 PM
In '96 I was gassing up my car and Lou drove past real slow.  Rolled down his window and asked me if I wanted to buy a stereo.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Primemuscle on June 14, 2013, 10:10:58 PM
In '96 I was gassing up my car and Lou drove past real slow.  Rolled down his window and asked me if I wanted to buy a stereo.

I was at the local McDonalds drive up ordering a big mac and who appears in the window offering me his photo? Yep! It was Lou.

He said, "For only $20 more, you can have a personally signed photo of me."

I replied, "Fine, but I'd rather you didn't personalize it."

That's when he upped the price to $100.

I'll remember this forever because that was the last time I ordered a big mac or went to a McDonald's for that matter. Oh, and I declined his photo op offer. In my rear view mirror, I could see him blowing up and turning green as his McD's uniform started shredding away from his steroid built body.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: dj181 on June 14, 2013, 10:22:36 PM
my mother has some pics of him in arnold together when they met at a private gala in columbus ohio during the arnold classic, and no, he didn't charge her 20 bucks for the pics lol

this gala included zane and his band performing some tunes 8)

Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Tapeworm on June 14, 2013, 10:27:08 PM
I'd ask him to sign it in the black box at the bottom.

(LOU)
BEST WISHES LOU FEWIGNO
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: anabolichalo on June 15, 2013, 12:45:11 AM
i never found it easy to empathize with the mentally handicapped, mongoloids etc


but in lou's case i really hate his speach disorder so badly i wanna sever his vocal cords
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: kimo on June 15, 2013, 07:45:33 AM
strange in his days he was arnold main competitor . outside of sergio oliva . was also known for his strentgh. sergio was known too to get paid for autographs .
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: _aj_ on June 15, 2013, 08:07:19 AM
I'd ask him to sign it in the black box at the bottom.

(LOU)
BEST WISHES LOU FEWIGNO

Hahahaha!
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: hipolito mejia on June 15, 2013, 12:09:54 PM
He's a sociopath failure then. Sociopaths are generally very likeable until the kill you.


Lol.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Primemuscle on June 16, 2013, 06:04:26 PM
i never found it easy to empathize with the mentally handicapped, mongoloids etc


but in lou's case i really hate his speach disorder so badly i wanna sever his vocal cords

It is not a speech disorder in any real sense. When people are deaf, they cannot hear/learn how to speak from others. If you'd ever spent time around hearing impaired folks who try and speak you'd see that Lou has a very mild condition compare to some.
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: andreisdaman on June 16, 2013, 06:35:10 PM
I met Lou at the 2001 Mr. Olympia in Las Vegas...I went up to him at the Olympia EXPO and asked to take a pic with him......It was the first time I had attended an EXPO so I was a little naive....he barely looked up at me and said "that will be $20"........I was shocked that he was so money-grubbing...but he came across as really aloof and non-caring.....I stood there kinda embarrassed.....I thought he was joking and waited for him to laugh.....he didn't....he was dead serious....I started to reach into my pocket for the $20 but then I just said "fuck it" and left
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Hurricane Beef ! on June 16, 2013, 10:21:19 PM
Over on Ironage they say ( Peter Mcgough ) Lou would have been / is a better spokes person for bodybuilding then Arnold.

THE BEEF
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Slik on June 16, 2013, 11:39:57 PM
Over on Ironage they say ( Peter Mcgough ) Lou would have been / is a better spokes person for bodybuilding then Arnold.

THE BEEF
this who u mean?
http://www.classicmedia.tv/pr/mrmagoo/art/hero_art1.jpg (http://www.classicmedia.tv/pr/mrmagoo/art/hero_art1.jpg)
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: anabolichalo on June 17, 2013, 01:37:08 PM
It is not a speech disorder in any real sense. When people are deaf, they cannot hear/learn how to speak from others. If you'd ever spent time around hearing impaired folks who try and speak you'd see that Lou has a very mild condition compare to some.
i just genuinely hate the guy and also what he says about bodybuilding
Title: Re: Lou Ferrigno story
Post by: Pet shop boys on June 17, 2013, 02:41:22 PM
Over on Ironage they say ( Peter Mcgough ) Lou would have been / is a better spokes person for bodybuilding then Arnold.

THE BEEF

And he is correct,

Lou hasn't been as poplular as Arnold over the years but..

Arnold always says on mainstream media he used bodybuilding  as a stepping stone to get in to movies then politics.... Arnold has been out of shape by BODYBUILDING standars since 1980 ...heart surgery, has been broken from pinky toe to upper lip..hasn't flex not even in a tank top since he did Conan....I mean we are talking about speaker/image person for BODYBUILDING.

Sure, you can hate on lou for charging 20 for a pic at a Expo, or his shitty attitude...but he has been the only BODYBUILDER to be at 325 lbs and never been shown in public, bloated, fat or out of shape that's is what bodybuilding should be about in the public eye, that you my friend can be in top shape at any age, rather than the BS of Arnold saying "I moved in to bigger and better things' that's not speaking on behalf bodybuilding  that's more like trashing it !   ....so my hat off to Peter Mcgough to have a vision a projection of what a decent representation of a top muscular man should be about.



WoooSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH