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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Wrestling Board => Topic started by: Karl Kox on July 27, 2013, 12:00:04 PM
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Off the top of my head I can think of 3.
Great Kahli or how ever the hell you spell it.
Rey Mysterio
Kerry Von Eric (NWA Title)
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David Arquette
Vince Mcmahon
John Cena - i actually mean this with absolute sincerity
Lex Luger - never rated the guy as world champ material
Christian
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dolph ziggler. the miz :P :P :P :P :P
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Dusty Rhodes.
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Dusty Rhodes.
I backed out of listing Dusty purely because he was so over at that time.
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I backed out of listing Dusty purely because he was so over at that time.
And, as a devout student of this unique genre of entertainment, I still don't, nor will I ever fully understand why.
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John Cena with all his 5 signature moves
Kevin Nash
zezus (no holds barred)
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John Cena with all his 5 signature moves
Kevin Nash
zezus (no holds barred)
Cena is at least marketable, so I can understand their reasoning.
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Off the top of my head I can think of 3.
Great Kahli or how ever the hell you spell it.
Rey Mysterio
Kerry Von Eric (NWA Title)
A clear headed, sober and focused Kerry Von Erich could have definitely held the NWA strap. He had one of the best looks ever and was over wherever he went, especially in the southern regions. Even IF all that was put together he is still not in Flair's league but THAT Kerry Von Erich would have been justified in holding down the position occasionally.
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A clear headed, sober and focused Kerry Von Erich could have definitely held the NWA strap. He had one of the best looks ever and was over wherever he went, especially in the southern regions. Even IF all that was put together he is still not in Flair's league but THAT Kerry Von Erich would have been justified in holding down the position occasionally.
kerry von erich look=9, ring skills 7. mic skills 4.5 unfortunately mic skills count too much esp now days see the miz as compared to john morrison.
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I can't believe some of the people you're putting on here.
Rey and Kerry were both completely title worthy...
Khali I agree with.
Miz too. (I love Ziggler)
My batch for guys that should not have won.
Ron Killings (R-Truth) in TNA
Vince Russo (No explanation needed)
Jack Swagger
Jeff Jarrett
Ron Garvin
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kerry von erich look=9, ring skills 7. mic skills 4.5 unfortunately mic skills count too much esp now days see the miz as compared to john morrison.
Used to laugh like hell when Heenan would proclaim from the broadcast table, "million dollar body and a 10 cent brain" ha ha
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All you boys and your hatred for Big Dust. Trust me, I hated him worse, but if getting over is part of being champion, he was as deserving as anyone.
I will go with Ron Garvin. He pretty much flopped as much as anyone I can think of.
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kerry von erich look=9, ring skills 7. mic skills 4.5 unfortunately mic skills count too much esp now days see the miz as compared to john morrison.
It depends on which Kerry Von Erich. The pre 1986 motorcycle wreck, 2 functional feet Kerry was a helluva lot more athletic and mobile in the ring. Strong, agile, possibly the most over wrestler(with David Von Erich and Michael Hayes) in arguably the most popular organization(although short lived) Even if you look at Kerry's earliest WWF New York matches when he was 19 or 20 years as basically a kid he already had a pretty polished look and was very comfortable in the ring with older veterans...you gotta figure he had been wrestling with his bros under his dads eye his whole childhood. And for 19 years old he already looked pretty awesome physique wise too. I think Vince always remembered seeing that young kid as he worked ring side commentator and that planted the seed that eventually would bring kerry to WWF in the early 90s and give him the push to IC champ.
By the time he reached WWF let's face it his life was going down the drain. 3 of his brothers were dead, he had a extremely debilitating addiction to painkillers, he was wrestling on one foot, his marriage was crumbling, all the previous years of hard living were beginning to have their effect. Even throughout all that he was still extremely OVER until the very end. I think Kerry's ability to work over a crowd really was pretty spectacular and that basically transcended his whole career.
But in the end, as stated in this thread, Kerry exemplified the classic "dumb jock". Even when you hear stories about Kerry by people who were around him at the time they'll generally say "he was a great guy, loved his fans and family" but the guy was really just a good hearted dumbass for lack of a better term.
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It depends on which Kerry Von Erich. The pre 1986 motorcycle wreck, 2 functional feet Kerry was a helluva lot more athletic and mobile in the ring. Strong, agile, possibly the most over wrestler(with David Von Erich and Michael Hayes) in arguably the most popular organization(although short lived) Even if you look at Kerry's earliest WWF New York matches when he was 19 or 20 years as basically a kid he already had a pretty polished look and was very comfortable in the ring with older veterans...you gotta figure he had been wrestling with his bros under his dads eye his whole childhood. And for 19 years old he already looked pretty awesome physique wise too. I think Vince always remembered seeing that young kid as he worked ring side commentator and that planted the seed that eventually would bring kerry to WWF in the early 90s and give him the push to IC champ.
By the time he reached WWF let's face it his life was going down the drain. 3 of his brothers were dead, he had a extremely debilitating addiction to painkillers, he was wrestling on one foot, his marriage was crumbling, all the previous years of hard living were beginning to have their effect. Even throughout all that he was still extremely OVER until the very end. I think Kerry's ability to work over a crowd really was pretty spectacular and that basically transcended his whole career.
But in the end, as stated in this thread, Kerry exemplified the classic "dumb jock". Even when you hear stories about Kerry by people who were around him at the time they'll generally say "he was a great guy, loved his fans and family" but the guy was really just a good hearted dumbass for lack of a better term.
That is very spot-on from what I know, as well; and the part about Vince is quite insightful.
Do you think the old man brought Kerry to the Fed and pushed him because of his (then) current performance, was it based on Kerry's past work, or in hopes that he would improve?
Do you believe that Kerry was as over during his WWF run as he was down South?
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"The smell of victory feels so good"
ha ha, excellent performer but his mic skills just throw him under a bus!
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That is very spot-on from what I know, as well; and the part about Vince is quite insightful.
Do you think the old man brought Kerry to the Fed and pushed him because of his (then) current performance, was it based on Kerry's past work, or in hopes that he would improve?
Do you believe that Kerry was as over during his WWF run as he was down South?
Me living in Dallas I can tell you he was more over down here than in WWF. All the Von Erics were.
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I totally forgot about Vince Russo and David Arquette having the belt in WCW. That is a disgrace to all the hard working guys in the locker room. That was one of the just many stupid things WCW did to try and get ratings,
Dusty have the title does not bother me he was over and so was The Miz at the time when he had the WWE title.
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Me living in Dallas I can tell you he was more over down here than in WWF. All the Von Erics were.
That's what I figured.
Did your families know each other?
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Dusty have the title does not bother me he was over and so was The Miz at the time when he had the WWE title.
On, I'm not disputing that Rhodes was over; I know he was.
I just for the life of me can't understand why.
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Yes sir. The Old man and Fritz were tag partners maybe even tag champs together in the 60's (Long before my time). Then in the 80's at the end of my dads carrer he moved to Dallas and worked for Fritz.
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On, I'm not disputing that Rhodes was over; I know he was.
I just for the life of me can't understand why.
Dude hes the son of a plumber and a blue collar working man. He relates to the people. ::)
I agree I don't understand It .
Dusty's ego was huge also. For the short period of time in Florida when my dad was face he Dusty was the reason he turned back heel. He thought my dad was getting more over then he was. They were good friends so my dad didn't argue.
When I was a little kid I took a picture at Dusty's house of the shrine he had for himself. I'll have to find it.
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When I was a little kid I took a picture at Dusty's house of the shrine he had for himself. I'll have to find it.
The fact that the man has a shrine to himself in his own house doesn't surprise me one bit.
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That is very spot-on from what I know, as well; and the part about Vince is quite insightful.
Do you think the old man brought Kerry to the Fed and pushed him because of his (then) current performance, was it based on Kerry's past work, or in hopes that he would improve?
Do you believe that Kerry was as over during his WWF run as he was down South?
In The von erichs prime during during WCCW they had a hard time even getting to the ring because of the mob that surrounded them on their entrance. Especially so with Kerry. The list of all time wrestlers that had the fans behind him as much as he did during WCCW is really short. With that being said, I think his transition to WWF was incredibly smooth and he was very much over there from day one. He had the crossover appeal of the women being crazy about his look plus all the other male fans who already knew about him.
It's been said by many different people on forums and said to have been quoted by a few writers that Vince Jr wanted Kerry from almost the very get go. Of course one name, Fritz von erich, made this an impossibility. By the late 80's Fritz was out of the business and I'm certain fritz gave kerry his blessing to head to the northeast. In Kevin's own words Fritz would sit up and watch Raw and other WWF shows so the old man probably got a kick seeing his son on the big stage.
I don't really know now much faith Vince had in Kerry to make a splash but there has to be something behind his fast rise to beating Hennig for the IC belt but almost just as fast jobbing for mid carders and up and comers like The Undertaker. I remember him also jobbing for Sid Vicious towards the end at WCCW/USWA (or whatever it was at the time) That just leads me to spectulate it had to be based on drugs or unreliability.
I think Kerry was just tailor made for Vince. The bodybuilder type look that Vince always has sought after, a proven popular commodity with a succesful track record of being popular plus on the sentimental/emotional aspect, the fact that Kerry and Kevin originally worked for Vince Sr. when Jr. was ringside commentator and worked that old school "Pre Hogan" wrestling style then that we've discussed where the matches had such a sporty, "legit" look to them, more strict rules, straightforward commentary with all the moves being announced....mixing it up with all the old school ham and egger heels. Who knows how far back Vince Sr and Fritz went back? Or what conversations Vince Sr and Jr had about the Von Erich boys? I think Vince would have given him all the opportunity in the world but it's like Kevin also said "my brother wasn't shady or anything like that he was just a guy who really liked to do drugs. It was his thing"
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"The smell of victory feels so good"
ha ha, excellent performer but his mic skills just throw him under a bus!
The stories of his ditziness are just incredible. Tying his boot laces together then getting up and falling down, falling asleep in his car out front of the building he was set to perform and having to be woken up and rushed to the ring, messed up out of his mind and looking out into the crowd for some girl during a Rick Flair match, being late to matches because he couldn't read directions properly, wearing a mask while also wearing a jacket that said "Kerry" on the back, running his motorcycle into a cop car while wearing nothing but running shorts(no helmet, shirt or shoes) and having to have his foot amputated because he got up to walk across the room for a cheeseburger before it was properly healed(although I don't know if that one is true or not)
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David Arquette was a slap in the face to every pro wrestler.
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David Arquette was a slap in the face to every pro wrestler.
The only good thing about that angle is that he supposedly donated his pay from that deal to Owen Hart's family.
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The stories of his ditziness are just incredible. Tying his boot laces together then getting up and falling down, falling asleep in his car out front of the building he was set to perform and having to be woken up and rushed to the ring, messed up out of his mind and looking out into the crowd for some girl during a Rick Flair match, being late to matches because he couldn't read directions properly, wearing a mask while also wearing a jacket that said "Kerry" on the back, running his motorcycle into a cop car while wearing nothing but running shorts(no helmet, shirt or shoes) and having to have his foot amputated because he got up to walk across the room for a cheeseburger before it was properly healed(although I don't know if that one is true or not)
Has anyone seen the match with him and Lawler for the Unified Title? Kerry blades his arm before the match ever starts and has blood running down his robe and body forcing Lawler to immediately start working the arm. Then when the match is over Kerry thinks he won and grabs the belt and leaves.
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:o
Link ???
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:o
Link ???
I'll see if I can find it.
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Heres the match the enerance has been edited down. But not only can you see Kerry cut himself again at 2.38 he cut himself before he left the locker room. And who knows they might have even told him he was going over or he didn't remember the finish.
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Has anyone seen the match with him and Lawler for the Unified Title? Kerry blades his arm before the match ever starts and has blood running down his robe and body forcing Lawler to immediately start working the arm. Then when the match is over Kerry thinks he won and grabs the belt and leaves.
I think him leaving with the belts was just part of the planned finish.
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I think him leaving with the belts was just part of the planned finish.
Maybe but it wouldn't surprise me if he couldn't even remember the finish either.
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Maybe but it wouldn't surprise me if he couldn't even remember the finish either.
Sad but true. You were around Fritz some i'm assuming. How did he come across? I dont want you to say anything you dont feel comfortable with, but damn his boys were a trainwreck.
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Sad but true. You were around Fritz some i'm assuming. How did he come across? I dont want you to say anything you dont feel comfortable with, but damn his boys were a trainwreck.
There is nothing that I feel uncomfortable talking about, especially the Von Erichs ;D
This is gonna be long, sorry.
I never met Fritz until around 92 or 93. Right after Kerry died we went to his Ranch with Bob Orton Sr. (holy fuck what a crazzzy day I'll tell the story in another thread.) Then in 96 or 97 We went back out to his Ranch with Terry Funk and a Japanese reporter. I think I posted those pics here. From that point on they made piece with each other and would visit offten.
My old man and Fritz did not get along because of a non wrestling related business deal which is the reason that soon after Ed McLamore died and Fritz took over my dad stopped coming to Dallas to wrestle. In the early 80's at the end of my dads career my parents moved to Dallas to be closer with to my moms family. My dad worked for Fritz a few times but stopped and then soon retired shortly after except for some stuff with Watts in Oklahoma. One of the reasons for the heat between them in the 80's was Fritz and Gary Hart, who was booking World Class at the time sent my dad to wrestle several places and when he got there he wasn't on the card. But I myself am confused about that whole thing. Also Fritz was wanting my dad to put over his boys and other young wrestlers and my dad would not do it. IMO that wasn't right. He was on his way out of the bussines and should have help get the young guys over. But, that's the way he was and he did not like Fritz.
on a side note at Fritz's funeral a TV reporter asked to speak with my dad. My old man was still in full Kayfabe mode and told the reporter "I just came here today to make sure the son of a bitch was really dead."
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Sad but true. You were around Fritz some i'm assuming. How did he come across? I dont want you to say anything you dont feel comfortable with, but damn his boys were a trainwreck.
IMO the boys were a train wreck because of pressure from Fritz. They were over huge and were probably the main reason why World class did so well. That's not to say they didn't want to wrestle. Of course they did. What kid doesn't want to be like daddy.
I also think all the older guys liked to give all the Von Erich boys drugs and what ever they wanted for their own entertainment.
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Karl I love the kayfabe funeral story. That was awesome!!!!
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Karl I love the kayfabe funeral story. That was awesome!!!!
i couldnt contain my laughter, one of the best lines ive ever read on any board, any topic ha ha
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Has anyone seen the match with him and Lawler for the Unified Title? Kerry blades his arm before the match ever starts and has blood running down his robe and body forcing Lawler to immediately start working the arm. Then when the match is over Kerry thinks he won and grabs the belt and leaves.
Yeah that was "Superclash" I believe. Sort of like a last ditch effort for the territories to put together a big cross promotional event to compete with Vince.
That was just a disaster from the very start. WTH was Kerry thinking cutting himself BEFORE getting into the ring lol
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Batista
Diesel
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Batista
Diesel
Batista at least had the look.
Diesel I am a bit torn on now that I see it... Creatively I think both Nash and his co-hort Scott Hall were pretty smart, but never knew when to give up on a gimmick... (NWO) so I can see him getting the strap for a bit.
I dunno. He was certainly not the worst guy to ever hold the title.
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i was a kid when Jim won the title, essentially he was the only one that could take the title from Hogan due to how over he was. Hogan couldnt have the strap forever, and he wouldnt have been able to feud with Rick Rude in the way Warrior did. Whilst in hindsight i would agree based on ability, id have to say he deserved a crack based on his look and popularity.
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Ultimate Warrior
oh, brother ::)
He was crazy over, so I don't see how he couldn't get the title at some point.
He wasn't a great wrestler, but he had the look and the fans loved the guy.
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i was a kid when Jim won the title, essentially he was the only one that could take the title from Hogan due to how over he was. Hogan couldnt have the strap forever, and he wouldnt have been able to feud with Rick Rude in the way Warrior did. Whilst in hindsight i would agree based on ability, id have to say he deserved a crack based on his look and popularity.
I'd go with the guy who beat Warrior for the title, Sgt. Slaughter. Tunney made it clear that Warrior and Hogan would not have a rematch So, it was just a matter of waiting for a heel to beat the Ultimate one and then have that guy drop it to the Hulkster.
But Slaughter? He wasn't built to last. Once the first Iraq conflict ended, there went his heat. I wouldn't have minded Dibiase beating Warrior. Heck, I was even pulling for Ravishing Rick Rude at SummerSlam '90.
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I'd go with the guy who beat Warrior for the title, Sgt. Slaughter. Tunney made it clear that Warrior and Hogan would not have a rematch So, it was just a matter of waiting for a heel to beat the Ultimate one and then have that guy drop it to the Hulkster.
But Slaughter? He wasn't built to last. Once the first Iraq conflict ended, there went his heat. I wouldn't have minded Dibiase beating Warrior. Heck, I was even pulling for Ravishing Rick Rude at SummerSlam '90.
i would actually say the Sarge drew more heat than just about and heel i can think of for a short period of time. He was a turn coat siding with the enemy and burning the flag, i hated him as a kid and im not even American! He was an obvious transitional champ but he had the perfect gimmick to carry a brilliant angle, when America needed a hero the most Hogan came and took the title back. This in turn lead to Sarge turning face again, a great move which generated alot of cheers from the crowds.
Rude should have beaten Warrior no doubt. The cage match provided the perfect platform - the Heenan family could have seen to it but unfortunately this is something we will never be able to witness.
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i would actually say the Sarge drew more heat than just about and heel i can think of for a short period of time. He was a turn coat siding with the enemy and burning the flag, i hated him as a kid and im not even American! He was an obvious transitional champ but he had the perfect gimmick to carry a brilliant angle, when America needed a hero the most Hogan came and took the title back. This in turn lead to Sarge turning face again, a great move which generated alot of cheers from the crowds.
Rude should have beaten Warrior no doubt. The cage match provided the perfect platform - the Heenan family could have seen to it but unfortunately this is something we will never be able to witness.
I don't think Slaughter burned the flag. On the Hulkamana anthology, he talks about how they wanted him to do so with the goal of really pushing his heel persona. Sarge said no; but, the brass kept persisting. So, Slaughter says he came up with a compromise.
Instead of burning the flag, he put Hogan's T-Shirt on a pole and burned it like a flag. Slaughter claims, back then, burning Hogan's shirt like that was as bad as (if not, worse than) burning Old Glory itself. And, it worked like a charm.
But, again, it was too short term. Once the Iraq war ended, so did Slaughter. In one year, he went from main-eventing WrestleMania 7 to being in a useless go-grab-some-popcorn-time 8-man tag match at WrestleMania 8.
You do have a point, though. Dibiase, Savage, and Earthquake's feuds with Hogan had pretty much run their course from '88 to '90. By '91, after Slaughter fizzled out, there were no major heels to face Hogan, besides Flair. And, since they were saving him for Hogan at WrestleMania 8 (originally), Undertaker got the top heel spot by default.
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Legend has it that, when proposed with the flag-burning idea, Bob Slaughter rejected it because he already had enough serious heat - even receiving threats of physical harm.
The other legend is that the office changed the site of that year's Mania after receiving a bomb threat on the original location; although some say that the old man chose to switch to a smaller arena after failing to draw an adequate gate. Can't have too many empty seats at the biggest show.
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He was crazy over, so I don't see how he couldn't get the title at some point.
He wasn't a great wrestler, but he had the look and the fans loved the guy.
The UW character was perfect for that demographic at that time.
However, that time would soon end.
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Legend has it that, when proposed with the flag-burning idea, Bob Slaughter rejected it because he already had enough serious heat - even receiving threats of physical harm.
The other legend is that the office changed the site of that year's Mania after receiving a bomb threat on the original location; although some say that the old man chose to switch to a smaller arena after failing to draw an adequate gate. Can't have too many empty seats at the biggest show.
Slaughter said that himself (once on the Hulkamania anthology DVD and once on the WWE Legends show), that he didn't want to burn the flag. So, he substituted it with Hogan's T-Shirt.
He also claimed his family needed security and he needed to wear a bullet-proof vest in certain arenas.
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Slaughter said that himself (once on the Hulkamania anthology DVD and once on the WWE Legends show), that he didn't want to burn the flag. So, he substituted it with Hogan's T-Shirt.
He also claimed his family needed security and he needed to wear a bullet-proof vest in certain arenas.
I'd like to know if any of those comments are a work. Sarge is from that "kayfabe-til the death" generation. I'm sure there's some truth, but also some embellishment.
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I'd like to know if any of those comments are a work. Sarge is from that "kayfabe-til the death" generation. I'm sure there's some truth, but also some embellishment.
Masked Superstar would drive between shows with his mask on.
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Masked Superstar would drive between shows with his mask on.
Dick Beyer would go into public places with his Destroyer mask on - especially in Japan. He would carry the thing with him while tanning outdoors in case someone would walk by. But, it wasn't as if many/any folks would recognize him.
Verne Gagne convinced him to unmask in a gimmick match. Verne thought it would make a great angle, and Dick thought it would hurt his career. Both were wrong. After removing the mask, the audience was silent because nobody knew who the hell Dick Beyer was.
Last I heard, Dick hosts a radio show somewhere...and yes, he wears his mask...on the radio...
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Dick Beyer would go into public places with his Destroyer mask on - especially in Japan. He would carry the thing with him while tanning outdoors in case someone would walk by. But, it wasn't as if many/any folks would recognize him.
Verne Gagne convinced him to unmask in a gimmick match. Verne thought it would make a great angle, and Dick thought it would hurt his career. Both were wrong. After removing the mask, the audience was silent because nobody knew who the hell Dick Beyer was.
Last I heard, Dick hosts a radio show somewhere...and yes, he wears his mask...on the radio...
I love the old kayfabe stuff.
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He always work that thing. Kaylabe Fabian all the way.
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He always work that thing. Kaylabe Fabian all the way.
Man that is fucking awesome. Damn, I wish I could have caught some of those old matches from the 50s - 70s!
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Ultimate Warrior
oh, brother ::)
blasphemy 8)
warrior was insanely over. moreso than Hogan in 89-90
just look at this crowd reaction at warrior's arrival at 7:30 or so :o
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blasphemy 8)
warrior was insanely over. moreso than Hogan in 89-90
just look at this crowd reaction at warrior's arrival at 7:30 or so :o
Have to admit I saw a WWF show in Fla in 89 or so and UW was way over. They jobbed Andre to him. :-\
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Have to admit I saw a WWF show in Fla in 89 or so and UW was way over. They jobbed Andre to him. :-\
I suspect the old man compensated Andre very well for those jobs.
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I suspect the old man compensated Andre very well for those jobs.
I sure hope so. Tully and Arn were on the card too.
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I sure hope so. Tully and Arn were on the card too.
Vince royally pissed them off! Two more outside stars he promised the world and never delivered.
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Vince royally pissed the, off! Two more outside stars he promised the world and never delivered.
Well, in all fairness to VKM... and I'm not really a fan of his. Tully got nailed by some drug policy and Arn ended up going down with him.
Sucks too... I loved Blanchard as the TV champ back in the day.