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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: local hero on September 21, 2013, 01:13:49 AM
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as ive mentioned millions of times ive had long running shoulder issues.. now there almost back on track, so i'll share some thing that have helped me on the way..
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as ive mentioned millions of times ive had long running shoulder issues.. now there almost back on track, so i'll share some thing that have helped me on the way..
good idea...
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as ive mentioned millions of times ive had long running shoulder issues.. now there almost back on track, so i'll share some thing that have helped me on the way..
come on then!
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I do YTLWs before benching. I actually do them in the middle of my warm up sets. 2.5lbers is good enough weight. It stretches your chest and shoulders while activating those scapula muscles needed for healthy shoulders while pressing.
They really saved my shoulders. Couldn't bench without them. Just remember to keep your back muscles retracted while benching and you should be good to go.
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as ive mentioned millions of times ive had long running shoulder issues.. now there almost back on track, so i'll share some thing that have helped me on the way..
?
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local hero sure knows how to keep the gang in suspense...
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this
(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2011/ask-the-250-hour-trainer-improve-bench-press_d.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2011/ask-the-250-hour-trainer-improve-bench-press_e.jpg)
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i just ensure that i get a stretch in a hot shower afterwards... then if they still feel sore/tight i will ice them down
but since i moved to more full body style training in general i haven't had any joint issues
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this
(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2011/ask-the-250-hour-trainer-improve-bench-press_d.jpg)
(http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/images/2011/ask-the-250-hour-trainer-improve-bench-press_e.jpg)
nice pecs development on that guy
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nice pecs development on that guy
lol
and he's got pretty damn good wheels as well ;D
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i started this and totaly forgot about it...
ok, heres my little rehab routine... plus a few movements that seem to keep things healthy..
1st off, buy resistance bands... they work so much better for external/internal rotations, i see people using dumbels and cringe at the form and weight used..
2nd off... use less weight on everything generally, youd be surprised how better you feel.. i used to be a total hardcore HIT guy, now im happy pumping away with a moderate weight for a few sets
external rotations with band 3 x 20, internal rotations 3 x 20( arms at right angle, jammed into body)
door way stretches ( arm at right angle, pressure applied to forearm, hold stretch for 5/10 secs )
scapular rows 3 x 15 ( use cable row set on highest level, very moderate weight,row into upper chest area, wide overhand grip, hold squeeze )
scapular presses 3 x 15 ( either from press up position or on dip bars )
i have also used broomshank stretches in the past, they do help improve flexibility but can be servere depending on how sore the injured area is..
ive also found stopping overhead pressing helps alot, changing my form on rear delt db laterals also, so im letting my shoulder blades fully stretch and contract at the top ( helps to use less weight and keep arms at more of an angle )
check your posture, if you walk around slouched, with your shoulders forward your asking for trouble.. its sounds gay, but try and walk with your chest forward, shoulders back
starting chest workouts with a pump.. a few sets of pressups against the db rack realy squeezing those pecs together and getting the blood going
set your chest position and keep it fixed, expanded rib cage etc... also use less weight and stop the movement when you can no longer hold that form
dont use severe angles for any of your chest movements,,, keep it to a slight incline or decline
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when it comes to drugs and supps..
obviously test/decca/gh will make things feel better and may heal thing up a little, but more thn likely they will just mask the pain until it becomes unbearable
things ive found that dont work
glucosamine, chondroitin , msn, alfrutrop etc etc... utter garbage and drain on your wallet
what i did find mildly helpfull was cissus, the stronger extract, obviously ice packs, ibuprofen
getting sports massages to help loosen up all the knots in your lats, shoulders, traps, pecs etc
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the key is proper form and keeping the ego in check when loading weight to the bar
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the key is proper form and keeping the ego in check when loading weight to the bar
jesus christ.... a reasonable post from anabolihalo? did hell freeze over?
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I started using resistance bands during shoulder rehab and still use them to this day. They are great for a pump in the morning or a full workout. You def need to make sure you get quality bands though...
My trainer uses these
http://www.amazon.com/ProGrade-Resistance-Quality-D-Handle-Anti-Snap/product-reviews/B00GVLJLRK/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1
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Besides the usual rotator cuff exercises I have no answers as one of my shoulders is shot.
I know one thing that would help so many young trainers to avoid the incredible amount of shoulder problems from lifting.
1. Avoid the bench press. Over the years I have known so many guys that could bench over 400 with a tee shirt without the inverted V bridge arch. All of them had severe shoulder problems over 40 years old.
2. Bench using dumbbells with a full range of motion. Don't stop 5 inches short when you can come down more. It might allow you to use heavier dumbbells to impress your ego but in time it will make your shoulders pec tie in tight.
3. This is critical. Do flat dumbbell chest presses, incline dumbbell chest presses and dumbbell shoulder presses with your hands facing each other. The standard pronated grip is not natural and it strains the shoulder. I know most will say no champ does it this way but I'm telling you it's safer. Maybe if John Grimek and Steeve Reeves did it this way all bodybuilders would be doing it today but that's not the case.
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Besides the usual rotator cuff exercises I have no answers as one of my shoulders is shot.
I know one thing that would help so many young trainers to avoid the incredible amount of shoulder problems from lifting.
1. Avoid the bench press. Over the years I have known so many guys that could bench over 400 with a tee shirt without the inverted V bridge arch. All of them had severe shoulder problems over 40 years old.
2. Bench using dumbbells with a full range of motion. Don't stop 5 inches short when you can come down more. It might allow you to use heavier dumbbells to impress your ego but in time it will make your shoulders pec tie in tight.
3. This is critical. Do flat dumbbell chest presses, incline dumbbell chest presses and dumbbell shoulder presses with your hands facing each other. The standard pronated grip is not natural and it strains the shoulder. I know most will say no champ does it this way but I'm telling you it's safer. Maybe if John Grimek and Steeve Reeves did it this way all bodybuilders would be doing it today but that's not the case.
the 3rd Point is intresting. Bill Pearl Shows this Hand Position in his Books too. I think most donīt use it because you canīt use so much weight. Also i never rotate my Hands in any pressing movement. the "Arnold press" i never liked. A very good post and Food for thought.
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I'm not saying rotate as you press but keep your hands facing each other as you press.
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I'm not saying rotate as you press but keep your hands facing each other as you press.
i understood your post and i know what you mean. have rotated my Hand with incline press but just slightly and kept the Position...helped with shoulder pain.
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Lots of great advice in this thread. In addition to what everyone has been contributing I would like to add some things that have worked for me.
Extreme wide grip (almost to the plates) bent over rows rowing to the upper chest area. You would be shocked how little weight you have to use at first. If you can't touch your upper chest with the bar the weight is too heavy. It really hits the rear delts/upper back area and I believe helps balance out the shoulder joint.
For squats, good mornings, any time you have the bar on your back don't get lazy with the grip. It's very easy to hold the bar really wide with a thumbless grip. Try to move your grip in as close as possible and close your thumbs around the bar and grip it tight. Overtime I have gotten lazy and didn't want to stretch out my shoulders when gripping the bar during squatting. Last several months I have been pushing myself to grip the bar narrower (within reason). I think we all lose some flexibility/mobility in the shoulder/chest area after years of pressing, which contributes to eventual impingement once your joints can no longer function in the ROM they were inteded to.
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Lots of great advice in this thread. In addition to what everyone has been contributing I would like to add some things that have worked for me.
Extreme wide grip (almost to the plates) bent over rows rowing to the upper chest area. You would be shocked how little weight you have to use at first. If you can't touch your upper chest with the bar the weight is too heavy. It really hits the rear delts/upper back area and I believe helps balance out the shoulder joint.
For squats, good mornings, any time you have the bar on your back don't get lazy with the grip. It's very easy to hold the bar really wide with a thumbless grip. Try to move your grip in as close as possible and close your thumbs around the bar and grip it tight. Overtime I have gotten lazy and didn't want to stretch out my shoulders when gripping the bar during squatting. Last several months I have been pushing myself to grip the bar narrower (within reason). I think we all lose some flexibility/mobility in the shoulder/chest area after years of pressing, which contributes to eventual impingement once your joints can no longer function in the ROM they were inteded to.
Another effective way to balance out pressing is to do an inverted body weight row. Set a bar about waist height (use a smith machine bar or a bar in a rack. Face the ceiling. Put your heels on a bench to raise them. Now hang all the way down. Pull/row to get your chest to touch the bar. It's not as easy as it sound. It takes all the stress off he lower back.
A really good stretch is to raise your upper arm to be parallel to the ground. No bend your lower arm to make a L or perpendicular. Put your arm in a door frame and try to stretch out your pec/delt tie in.
Your advice about squatting is true. So many have difficulty holding a bar due to tight shoulders. I found and this is just for me. The press behind the neck done strictly for a full range of motion down to the traps keeps the shoulders flexible. I know for some with tight damaged shoulders it's something they shouldn't even try.
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As OldTimer 1 suggested, the PBN as a aid for stiff shoulders. Might want to start off with a long PVV pipe or wooden broom handle/dowel, rather than having any added weight at first. Just going for the full ROM, and getting use to the movement, at first. Than perhaps just a bar (exercise or Olympic) once a certain range of flexibility develops. Go for higher reps of 20 to 40. Don't need a lot of added weight, it will be just a stretch/flexibility exercise, not a muscle mass developing one.
Might also try light DB lateral raises, but continue the weight all the way overhead, touching them together at the top position. At that top position, try stretching even higher. Come down slowly, keeping the DB's slightly behind the line of the body and chest out. (as far as a delt developing exercise, laterals are great, but if raising up a bit higher to overhead, than the shoulders the traps come into strong play...which can be a good thing where full development is desired). May also want to include front DB raises overhead for shoulder flexibility. Light straight arm pullovers (going for the full stretch) can give good results.
Hanging from a horizontal bar can also help with shoulder joint/ligament flexibility. May use a variety of grips. I find that standing sideways to the bar and interlocking the fingers works very well (ultra close grip). As does extra wide grips. Hang for at least 30 seconds each time, longer if possible. Include one arm hanging at times. Good Luck.
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Dumbbell around the world exercise is great for shoulder flexibility. seen a couple of variations of it but this one i like..
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Sore shoulders are hard to train around if you want to keep decent chest development, hard to get away from pressing type movements completely. I have been using a swiss bar the last few months to take strain off the shoulder girdle and it seems to have worked. I am not as sore and my pecs have stayed the same pretty much, if anything my tri's have gotten bigger and stronger because of the neutral grip.
Everyday I have been doing rotator cuff work with light dumbbells and it also seems to help.
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Besides the usual rotator cuff exercises I have no answers as one of my shoulders is shot.
I know one thing that would help so many young trainers to avoid the incredible amount of shoulder problems from lifting.
1. Avoid the bench press. Over the years I have known so many guys that could bench over 400 with a tee shirt without the inverted V bridge arch. All of them had severe shoulder problems over 40 years old.
2. Bench using dumbbells with a full range of motion. Don't stop 5 inches short when you can come down more. It might allow you to use heavier dumbbells to impress your ego but in time it will make your shoulders pec tie in tight.
3. This is critical. Do flat dumbbell chest presses, incline dumbbell chest presses and dumbbell shoulder presses with your hands facing each other. The standard pronated grip is not natural and it strains the shoulder. I know most will say no champ does it this way but I'm telling you it's safer. Maybe if John Grimek and Steeve Reeves did it this way all bodybuilders would be doing it today but that's not the case.
Always being a good bencher myself and having suffered from shoulder pain I would say the one thing I would tell myself 20 yrs ago would be to train all 4 rotator cuff muscles in order to strengthen the weakest link when benching heavy...
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i started this and totaly forgot about it...
ok, heres my little rehab routine... plus a few movements that seem to keep things healthy..
1st off, buy resistance bands... they work so much better for external/internal rotations, i see people using dumbels and cringe at the form and weight used..
2nd off... use less weight on everything generally, youd be surprised how better you feel.. i used to be a total hardcore HIT guy, now im happy pumping away with a moderate weight for a few sets
external rotations with band 3 x 20, internal rotations 3 x 20( arms at right angle, jammed into body)
door way stretches ( arm at right angle, pressure applied to forearm, hold stretch for 5/10 secs )
scapular rows 3 x 15 ( use cable row set on highest level, very moderate weight,row into upper chest area, wide overhand grip, hold squeeze )
scapular presses 3 x 15 ( either from press up position or on dip bars )
i have also used broomshank stretches in the past, they do help improve flexibility but can be servere depending on how sore the injured area is..
ive also found stopping overhead pressing helps alot, changing my form on rear delt db laterals also, so im letting my shoulder blades fully stretch and contract at the top ( helps to use less weight and keep arms at more of an angle )
check your posture, if you walk around slouched, with your shoulders forward your asking for trouble.. its sounds gay, but try and walk with your chest forward, shoulders back
starting chest workouts with a pump.. a few sets of pressups against the db rack realy squeezing those pecs together and getting the blood going
set your chest position and keep it fixed, expanded rib cage etc... also use less weight and stop the movement when you can no longer hold that form
dont use severe angles for any of your chest movements,,, keep it to a slight incline or decline
Yes this was key for me, resistance bands are the best at loosening up the shoulders. Band pull aparts and dislocations before, between sets and after every training session. A lot of shoulder issues arise simply because of a muscle/strength imbalance in the shoulder girdle from too much pressing. Rows of all kinds, especially strict BB and DB rows go along way in improving shoulder health.
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I've got to add to this....
I've found plain old push Ups several times per week seem to keep things stable also, I think the shoulder problem comes from having your shoulder girdle restricted as the barbell ir dbell forces you into the bench..
So days off the gym I'll do 5 sets of press Ups, I don't kill my self either , 30 odd reps a set, somtimes less, I usualy do 5 sets of crunches too
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I've got to add to this....
I've found plain old push Ups several times per week seem to keep things stable also, I think the shoulder problem comes from having your shoulder girdle restricted as the barbell ir dbell forces you into the bench..
So days off the gym I'll do 5 sets of press Ups, I don't kill my self either , 30 odd reps a set, somtimes less, I usualy do 5 sets of crunches too
with shoulder problems(one shoulder) i found i could do good old fashioned push ups. You could very well be correct.
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Also i have noticed far fewer injuries using Dips than Flat Barbell Bench press. always found Decline press better too.
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If you've ever looked thru a mirror and done a pressing action and see how much all those back move and contract, and then think how that movement is restricted...
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Dips used to be a big fave of mine, but I've gad terrible ac joint problems, so I stay clear just to be on the safe side
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I use Press up Bars and mostly with a neutral hand position, although hands rotated inwards are supposed to be more effective. True what you are saying.
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I've actualy thought about buying some, and an abb wheel just for a bit of a change..
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I've actualy thought about buying some, and an abb wheel just for a bit of a change..
yeah the Ab wheel i have used or with an ez bar doing the same thing. not really for me. like to do good old bench crunches and hanging knee raises.
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Is an ab wheel good for your shoulder though? can be good or bad.
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I've never used one, might be a one off experiment....
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I've got to add to this....
I've found plain old push Ups several times per week seem to keep things stable also, I think the shoulder problem comes from having your shoulder girdle restricted as the barbell ir dbell forces you into the bench..
So days off the gym I'll do 5 sets of press Ups, I don't kill my self either , 30 odd reps a set, somtimes less, I usualy do 5 sets of crunches too
i do push ups every day, sets of 25 with pauses @ 5 in full and mid extension
that's coming from one of the bigger guys here
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I've never used one, might be a one off experiment....
;D I hope not ...you Geordie boys ;D
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Did you get your resistance bands online?
Had many shoulder issues, been trying the things you've mentioned - this is a decent article which expands on the press up and scapula pulls.
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_repair/pushups_face_pulls_and_shrugs
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Yeh off ebay, cheap as fuck..regular pressups have helped me alot tho.......
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i do push ups every day, sets of 25 with pauses @ 5 in full and mid extension
that's coming from one of the bigger guys here
do you feel push ups and dips are superior exercises for the serratus anterior?
in fact other than maybe pullovers are there any exercises that work this muscle?
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do you feel push ups and dips are superior exercises for the serratus anterior?
in fact other than maybe pullovers are there any exercises that work this muscle?
In a plank position, drive up through your elbows like a press up.
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I've always called those scapular presses, you can do same movement on the dipping bars, or especialy on those padded types you use for supported leg raises
Let your self sink then drive up through the elbows/forearm just as you would in the plank position
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I've got to add to this....
I've found plain old push Ups several times per week seem to keep things stable also, I think the shoulder problem comes from having your shoulder girdle restricted as the barbell ir dbell forces you into the bench..
So days off the gym I'll do 5 sets of press Ups, I don't kill my self either , 30 odd reps a set, somtimes less, I usualy do 5 sets of crunches too
I found the same thing with push ups. My shoulder is shot but I'm doing push ups in addition to typical chest stuff and my shoulder feels better.
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Good stuff. I have one that I'm surprised no one mentioned maybe because it's so obvious.
Do more warm up sets.
Most people start with the bar and work up progressively from there.
Do two sets with the bar and two sets with next weight you would normally use.
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Us sore shoulderd peoples are masters of the prolonged warm up and stretch routines of peace...