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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Craig Titus & Kelly Ryan Discussions => Topic started by: RJW1966 on December 29, 2005, 08:38:28 PM



Title: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: RJW1966 on December 29, 2005, 08:38:28 PM
I heard mention on another board that Phil Hernon has a reliable source that they are seeking the death penality on Craig and life in prison for Kelly. Unless this is just a BS move on the prosecutions part to rattle them they must have pretty solid evidence that Craig did the deed and it was premediated.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: knny187 on December 29, 2005, 08:49:12 PM
I heard mention on another board that Phil Hernon has a reliable source that they are seeking the death penality on Craig and life in prison for Kelly. Unless this is just a BS move on the prosecutions part to rattle them they must have pretty solid evidence that Craig did the deed and it was premediated.

& thats why craigs pleed was innocent?


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: 240 is Back on December 29, 2005, 08:59:30 PM
I heard mention on another board that Phil Hernon has a reliable source that they are seeking the death penality on Craig and life in prison for Kelly. Unless this is just a BS move on the prosecutions part to rattle them they must have pretty solid evidence that Craig did the deed and it was premediated.

holy shit--- the details are sickening.

Craig will indeed be seeing the death penalty.

holy shit...


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: knny187 on December 29, 2005, 09:08:19 PM
holy shit--- the details are sickening.

Craig will indeed be seeing the death penalty.

holy shit...

I am surprised myself

or

myself I am surprised




hell...



which one is it?


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: 240 is Back on December 29, 2005, 09:10:22 PM
i'm about to drop a bomb on getbig.

copy and save it when i do


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: knny187 on December 29, 2005, 09:11:46 PM
i'm about to drop a bomb on getbig.

copy and save it when i do


there




hope that was it

 ;)


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: bigdumbbell on December 29, 2005, 09:11:48 PM
hurry up i have to get up at 5   lol


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: 240 is Back on December 29, 2005, 09:19:10 PM
this is the 3rd source i have received this from- details on the drug of choice used to intox vary, but rest of details are close. Could be bullshit, could be the truth, you make the call.


CT and KR knew she was stealing from them. Craig bought a hotel room and ticket to cover up the scene to come. They were going to beat her up pretty bad at their home. He threw her down the stairs, HE beat her up (She is much bigger than Kelly) and she was very badly injured (Near death). Craig panicked because the damage was already done and he would be going to prison. He broke up a few vials of Nubain, poured it in her mouth, stckk gauze in her mouth, taped her whole head in duct tape, then put gauze on the tape to help it burn faster. Threw her in car trunk. They were seperated when questioned and contradicted each others story. They told police that car was found stolen at 3am, so they went searching for it. Kelly told police that they went in the truck to look for the stolen Jag, Craig told police that they went in the Jag, looking for the Jag. After cops left, CT went to dealership to trade in his truck for another. ON tv, the news had a pic of the car burnt up and a little story on it. CT then proceeded to tell car sales woman that "Thats what happens when you steal from somebody". She then called cops after Craig left. They got out of town before surveilance got them. Before they left town, they told a couple, (Renting from Craig and Kelly in one of their rentals) thay they had to get out of town for a while because something bad happened.
This is a death penalty case. The prosecutor already has 9 people sitting on death row.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 People are coming out of the woodwork telling our office that Craig beat Kelly, had swinging parties with them. Kelly was not jealous of Melissa.  The hotel, plane tickets, It was all planned, hence the premeditation.  Melissa and Craig were never at the hotel, it was all a guise. She was killed at their home.Kelly witnessed the whole ordeal. Craig called Gross at 10PM telling him that something bad happened and that to be ready to meet up later. Craig didnt realize that the duct tape saved her facial features from the fire, making the identification easier.  At @ 3:30am, Gross met them at Wall-Mart (on tape), followed CT and KR to a gas station(On tape) filled up the can, drove to the desert and Craig lit the car on fire. There are phone records proving these facts. When they came to their home at 10 am to interrogate them seperately, Craig would have no part of it. He yelled to Kelly, "Kell, we found out that the car was missing at 3 am right"? It will all come out in the wash soon. Guilty as hell, hands down, slam dunk case. The only question is wether the jury will buy the death penalty sentence.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: bigdumbbell on December 29, 2005, 09:27:53 PM
gut feeling...hate to say it but dont sound good for craiggers.  this will charge the readers


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Neve on December 29, 2005, 09:31:32 PM
A - There would be blood on the floor & Carpet. Even if they tried to clean it up.

B - This means she was beaten up as they went into the hotel ( on the phone call to her mom she was happy ) w/ Craig.

C - These emails you're getting are false and trying to stir things up

this is the 3rd source i have received this from- details on the drug of choice used to intox vary, but rest of details are close. Could be bullshit, could be the truth, you make the call.


CT and KR knew she was stealing from them. Craig bought a hotel room and ticket to cover up the scene to come. They were going to beat her up pretty bad at their home. He threw her down the stairs, HE beat her up (She is much bigger than Kelly) and she was very badly injured (Near death). Craig panicked because the damage was already done and he would be going to prison. He broke up a few vials of Nubain, poured it in her mouth, stckk gauze in her mouth, taped her whole head in duct tape, then put gauze on the tape to help it burn faster. Threw her in car trunk. They were seperated when questioned and contradicted each others story. They told police that car was found stolen at 3am, so they went searching for it. Kelly told police that they went in the truck to look for the stolen Jag, Craig told police that they went in the Jag, looking for the Jag. After cops left, CT went to dealership to trade in his truck for another. ON tv, the news had a pic of the car burnt up and a little story on it. CT then proceeded to tell car sales woman that "Thats what happens when you steal from somebody". She then called cops after Craig left. They got out of town before surveilance got them. Before they left town, they told a couple, (Renting from Craig and Kelly in one of their rentals) thay they had to get out of town for a while because something bad happened.
This is a death penalty case. The prosecutor already has 9 people sitting on death row.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 People are coming out of the woodwork telling our office that Craig beat Kelly, had swinging parties with them. Kelly was not jealous of Melissa.  The hotel, plane tickets, It was all planned, hence the premeditation.  Melissa and Craig were never at the hotel, it was all a guise. She was killed at their home.Kelly witnessed the whole ordeal. Craig called Gross at 10PM telling him that something bad happened and that to be ready to meet up later. Craig didnt realize that the duct tape saved her facial features from the fire, making the identification easier.  At @ 3:30am, Gross met them at Wall-Mart (on tape), followed CT and KR to a gas station(On tape) filled up the can, drove to the desert and Craig lit the car on fire. There are phone records proving these facts. When they came to their home at 10 am to interrogate them seperately, Craig would have no part of it. He yelled to Kelly, "Kell, we found out that the car was missing at 3 am right"? It will all come out in the wash soon. Guilty as hell, hands down, slam dunk case. The only question is wether the jury will buy the death penalty sentence.



Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: 240 is Back on December 29, 2005, 09:33:13 PM
A - There would be blood on the floor & Carpet. Even if they tried to clean it up.

B - This means she was beaten up as they went into the hotel ( on the phone call to her mom she was happy ) w/ Craig.

C - These emails you're getting are false and trying to stir things up


i didn't say it was true. could be just another rumor.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: knny187 on December 29, 2005, 10:22:05 PM
still seems a little b.s. to me


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: newmom on December 29, 2005, 10:22:34 PM
I just read that on mayheim


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Disgusted on December 29, 2005, 10:26:19 PM
No way this is true. I gone back and forth a couple of times with this person and he or she is clearly either very immature or very young and trying to pertend they know something. Started to cuss at me when I asked some questions about his post.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: newmom on December 29, 2005, 10:28:07 PM
well in the pictures and the show on good morning america she in no way looked bigger than kelly...


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: scabies on December 29, 2005, 10:40:14 PM
Newsflash for you: (since Neve and Disgusted are all freaked out that their "Kelly did it" scenario is going in the crapper)

1) 130lb women who are into fitness themselves dont get completely overpowered and choked out by a 120lb woman (without even a single iota of a mark on the 120lb womans face)

2) A 120lb woman doesnt lift a 130lb woman and put her in the trunk of a car

There is a reason why the police have been right every step of the way so far (jaguar, asphyxiation, Dodge Truck, Gross, walmart, boston, greece) and there is a reason why Titus has the exact charges he does and Kelly Ryan has the exact charges she does (and thats because they know alot more than you internet theorists!)


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Disgusted on December 29, 2005, 11:01:35 PM
Newsflash for you: (since Neve and Disgusted are all freaked out that their "Kelly did it" scenario is going in the crapper)

1) 130lb women who are into fitness themselves dont get completely overpowered and choked out by a 120lb woman (without even a single iota of a mark on the 120lb womans face)

2) A 120lb woman doesnt lift a 130lb woman and put her in the trunk of a car

There is a reason why the police have been right every step of the way so far (jaguar, asphyxiation, Dodge Truck, Gross, walmart, boston, greece) and there is a reason why Titus has the exact charges he does and Kelly Ryan has the exact charges she does (and thats because they know alot more than you internet theorists!)

Here we go, another one post wonder. No one said Kelly put her in the trunk Sherlock and I'm certainly not freakin out. If I'm wrong then I'll be the first to post it. If you have any "reliable" info then by all means share it.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Tre on December 29, 2005, 11:03:01 PM
There is a reason why the police have been right every step of the way so far (jaguar, asphyxiation, Dodge Truck, Gross, walmart, boston, greece) and there is a reason why Titus has the exact charges he does and Kelly Ryan has the exact charges she does (and thats because they know alot more than you internet theorists!)

Ya think so, eh?  Well, where do you think the police got so much of their information?  A lot of it came from your so-called "internet theorists". 

Chew on that for a while, newbie. 


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: NubianMuscle on December 29, 2005, 11:11:53 PM
There is a reason why the police have been right every step of the way so far (jaguar, asphyxiation, Dodge Truck, Gross, walmart, boston, greece) and there is a reason why Titus has the exact charges he does and Kelly Ryan has the exact charges she does (and thats because they know alot more than you internet theorists!)

Good post.

It will be interesting to watch the trial and see which getbiggers (if any) had the correct information.

This case is made for Court TV if they choose to cover it. Nancy Grace would just love reporting all the sordid details.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: FOR REAL on December 29, 2005, 11:14:12 PM
Scabies-


"2) A 120lb woman doesnt lift a 130lb woman and put her in the trunk of a car"

You had me going with your post until you posted this garbage? yeah it must be really tough for a 120lbs fitness girl on steroids to lift 130lbs into the trunk of her car? girls kellys size squat 225lbs all day long and are extremely strong. im sure she'd have no problem even liftin your fat ass into the trunk of her car lol


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Tre on December 29, 2005, 11:18:36 PM
well in the pictures and the show on good morning america she in no way looked bigger than kelly...

If Melissa was the girl at the party, then yes, she's bigger than Kelly. 

BUT, that doesn't mean that Kelly couldn't have done her.  Kelly was yoked! 


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Tre on December 29, 2005, 11:19:42 PM
You had me going with your post until you posted this garbage? yeah it must be really tough for a 120lbs fitness girl on steroids to lift 130lbs into the trunk of her car? girls kellys size squat 225lbs all day long and are extremely strong. im sure she'd have no problem even liftin your fat ass into the trunk of her car lol

Stop.  You're getting the schmoes all excited.   (http://nokiafree.org/forums/images/smilies//tongue.gif)


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: 240 is Back on December 29, 2005, 11:24:13 PM
Good post.

It will be interesting to watch the trial and see which getbiggers (if any) had the correct information.

This case is made for Court TV if they choose to cover it. Nancy Grace would just love reporting all the sordid details.


I post most everything. If there's only 2 ounces of truth in it, it's worth the other 12 pounds of crap. 

Court TV will love this baby!


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Disgusted on December 30, 2005, 12:21:14 AM
I heard mention on another board that Phil Hernon has a reliable source that they are seeking the death penality on Craig and life in prison for Kelly. Unless this is just a BS move on the prosecutions part to rattle them they must have pretty solid evidence that Craig did the deed and it was premediated.

Let's assume that The info Phil has obtained is correct. Actually I find it hard to believe. I doubt that the prosecution would want life in jail for Kelly if she was just an accessory. As far as Craig it would have to be premeditated with some very ruthless doings on Craig's part for them to try and convince a jury to put him to death. A jury tends to think differently when they have the life or death of someone in their hands.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Oliver Klaushof on December 30, 2005, 12:31:49 AM
Why would Craig be smart enough to create an alibi for himself, yet be so stupid as to send Kelly in the store to buy gas/kerosene on her credit card - and, on top of that, have the body burned in Kelly's car? Doesn't make sense. When they fled, everyone knew they were guilty as hell. Kelly as the murderer is still viable. If Craig knocked her around, there will be blood up and down the stairs.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: phyxsius on December 30, 2005, 01:13:39 AM
I would long for both becoming someone else's bitch for life


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: onlyme on December 30, 2005, 02:35:46 AM
Does anyone know if Melissa was dead prior to the car being put on fire.  Or was she just knocked out.  Very imporatant cause if she was still alive when the car was burning then it is premeditated.  I would think the gagged her so she couldn't scream and if that is why then she mst have been alove while the car was burning.  Also has it been established where she was killed and how they got her in the trunk without anyone or any cameras seeing them.  In Vegas all major hotels and casinos have camera all over the parking lots.  They caught a guy who murdered someone at the Silverton with the cameras in the parking lot. No matter what I think they both did this together.  They both definitley had motives.  I don't think there is any doubt that they did this but to what extent each one participated is the big question.   I wonder if Pinnacle is sending him supplements in jail.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: pumpster on December 30, 2005, 02:44:09 AM
The warrant stated that on Dec. 17, Titus told a business associate "I'm guilty" and said he intended to go to Boston where a bodybuilder friend would help him liquidate his assets so he could flee to a country with no extradition treaty with the United States.

Titus is charged with murder and arson and Ryan is charged as an accessory to those crimes after the fact. Both will return to court Jan. 12.

http://www2.townonline.com/canton/localRegional/view.bg?articleid=399604&format=&page=1


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: 24KT on December 30, 2005, 02:46:06 AM
Does anyone know if Melissa was dead prior to the car being put on fire.  Or was she just knocked out.  Very imporatant cause if she was still alive when the car was burning then it is premeditated.  I would think the gagged her so she couldn't scream and if that is why then she mst have been alove while the car was burning.  Also has it been established where she was killed and how they got her in the trunk without anyone or any cameras seeing them.  In Vegas all major hotels and casinos have camera all over the parking lots.  They caught a guy who murdered someone at the Silverton with the cameras in the parking lot. No matter what I think they both did this together.  They both definitley had motives.  I don't think there is any doubt that they did this but to what extent each one participated is the big question.   I wonder if Pinnacle is sending him supplements in jail.

Keith, I hate to say it, ...but that would be my first thought. If she was found bound, tied & gagged in the trunk, it seems pretty logical that she was alive when she went in there. They said the cause of death was asphyxiation. It's quite possible the smoke from the burning vehicle prevented any oxygen from getting into her lungs. And if her face was completely wrapped in duct tape, that too would have hindered her ability to breathe.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: bigdumbbell on December 30, 2005, 03:06:36 AM
Does anyone know if Melissa was dead prior to the car being put on fire.  Or was she just knocked out.  Very imporatant cause if she was still alive when the car was burning then it is premeditated.  I would think the gagged her so she couldn't scream and if that is why then she mst have been alove while the car was burning.  Also has it been established where she was killed and how they got her in the trunk without anyone or any cameras seeing them.  In Vegas all major hotels and casinos have camera all over the parking lots.  They caught a guy who murdered someone at the Silverton with the cameras in the parking lot. No matter what I think they both did this together.  They both definitley had motives.  I don't think there is any doubt that they did this but to what extent each one participated is the big question.   I wonder if Pinnacle is sending him supplements in jail.

agree, to what extent each one participated 'is' the case.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: RJW1966 on December 30, 2005, 06:03:26 AM
The warrant stated that on Dec. 17, Titus told a business associate "I'm guilty" and said he intended to go to Boston where a bodybuilder friend would help him liquidate his assets so he could flee to a country with no extradition treaty with the United States.

Wow, how could anyone be so dumb as to admit to ANYONE, family or friend, of committing a murder. I don't care how much a "friend" someone is, when you are sitting across from the FBI and being asked questions about a murder you TELL the TRUTH to get yourself as far away from being in anyway remotely connected. Ain't no one got your back on this type a deal.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: 240 is Back on December 30, 2005, 06:58:45 AM
If you REALLY wanted to punish someone- there would be no death worse than being burned alive.

Perhaps this played into Craig's mind... he wanted the girl to suffer beyond belief?

If so, I can see why they want the death penalty. This case may have taken a sicker turn than expected...  :-\


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: bigdumbbell on December 30, 2005, 07:03:16 AM
oh my god  240 burned alive ?
 
are you suggesting the reason there are no scratches or
blood evidence because she was simply assaulted and encased with duct tape while alive and pitched into the truck and burned alive ?

YES OR NO ?


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: NubianMuscle on December 30, 2005, 07:58:21 AM
oh my god  240 burned alive ?

Read the December 23, 2005 Las Vegas Review-Journal article again.

According to the coroner's report, an autopsy revealed that Melissa James died from asphyxiation.

The statement by Phil Hernon's source that Titus "taped her whole head in duct tape" would tend to support that finding. If the source is correct, Melissa would have been dead long before Titus torched the car.

http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2005/Dec-23-Fri-2005/news/5034653.html


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: bigdumbbell on December 30, 2005, 08:04:00 AM
he sure taped her mouth shut


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: LurkerNoMore on December 30, 2005, 08:38:47 AM
But is just someone stealing from you a bad enough reason to actually commit murder?  Think about it.

The theory that she was OD'd is much more believable.  That she OD'd and Craig/Kelly paniced knowing that news like that would bring heat on them with possible police trouble and sponsorship loss and quite possibly they were high too and not thinking and were simply trying to make the problem disappear.

I don't know, but it will really be interesting when all the facts come out.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: pumpster on December 30, 2005, 08:41:13 AM
It would have looked a lot better for them if they'd arranged for her to OD. Because the body wasn't totally burned, in part because of the tape around her, they were able to determine that she died from strangulation.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: G o a t b o y on December 30, 2005, 08:58:39 AM
The theory that she was OD'd is much more believable.  That she OD'd and Craig/Kelly paniced knowing that news like that would bring heat on them with possible police trouble and sponsorship loss and quite possibly they were high too and not thinking and were simply trying to make the problem disappear.

That's what I thought when the rumors first surfaced, but that scenario really doesn't seem to fit the facts at this point.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Ozark on December 30, 2005, 09:07:26 AM
"  Craig panicked because the damage was already done and he would be going to prison. He broke up a few vials of Nubain, poured it in her mouth, stckk gauze in her mouth, taped her whole head in duct tape, then put gauze on the tape to help it burn faster. "


Maybe the " gauze" (mentioned above) that was put on top of the duct tape,  eventually slid down, and was the white fabric that was found around her neck, that was mentioned in the report ?



Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: G o a t b o y on December 30, 2005, 09:17:36 AM
Hey 240!

We've got a job for you...

Break in to the Clark County DA's office, make copies of the case files on Titus and Ryan, and post them up on your website.

That's the only real way the true facts will come to light prior to the trial.



Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: LurkerNoMore on December 30, 2005, 09:44:49 AM
Hey 240!

We've got a job for you...

Break in to the Clark County DA's office, make copies of the case files on Titus and Ryan, and post them up on your website.

That's the only real way the true facts will come to light prior to the trial.



His site hits would go off the charts then.



Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: marsunit on December 30, 2005, 10:37:33 AM
At @ 3:30am, Gross met them at Wall-Mart (on tape), followed CT and KR to a gas station(On tape) filled up the can, drove to the desert and Craig lit the car on fire. There are phone records proving these facts.


(first time poster, long time on/off guest)

Puts a whole new light on Gross' involvement. Initial reports of merely handing over a gas can in the desert to Titus and driving him back wouldn't necessarily mean he knew about a murder. A lot easier to prove accessory being seen at Wallmart loading stuff in the back seat of the Jag."er..again, why won't this stuff fit in the trunk?" I smell a plea bargain not surprisingly.

Also, painkillers for the victim? just gets stranger all the time :o


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: bigdumbbell on December 30, 2005, 11:22:22 AM
"  Craig panicked because the damage was already done and he would be going to prison. He broke up a few vials of Nubain, poured it in her mouth, stckk gauze in her mouth, taped her whole head in duct tape, then put gauze on the tape to help it burn faster. "


Maybe the " gauze" (mentioned above) that was put on top of the duct tape,  eventually slid down, and was the white fabric that was found around her neck, that was mentioned in the report ?


 

something was ligated around her neck/throat could have been gauze slippage


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: 240 is Back on December 30, 2005, 11:24:14 AM
I smell a plea bargain not surprisingly.

Word is, it's already done...  :-X


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Tre on December 30, 2005, 11:27:22 AM
If she was found bound, tied & gagged in the trunk, it seems pretty logical that she was alive when she went in there. They said the cause of death was asphyxiation. It's quite possible the smoke from the burning vehicle prevented any oxygen from getting into her lungs. And if her face was completely wrapped in duct tape, that too would have hindered her ability to breathe.

1) Logic has almost *nothing* to do with this case

2) Asphyxiation could've been caused by any number of things - it's entirely possible that was dead for quite some time before allegedly being tied up


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: onlyme on December 30, 2005, 11:29:41 AM
What I don't understand is why burn an already dead body.....in your own Jaguar.   There are a million other ways easier and less noticeable than burning your car with the body in the back.  Jeez, they could have put her in a big sack or something rented a boat at Lake Mead and casually throw her in the water with a bunch of weights tied to her.  She would have sunk to the bottom and who knows how long it would be ebfore anyone would discover her if at all.  Just very stupid from the beginning.  Defintiely judgement calls from a deranged drug addict(s).


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: G o a t b o y on December 30, 2005, 11:32:12 AM
Word is, it's already done...  :-X

Which one of them got the plea?


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Tre on December 30, 2005, 11:39:11 AM
What I don't understand is why burn an already dead body.....in your own Jaguar.   There are a million other ways easier and less noticeable than burning your car with the body in the back.  Jeez, they could have put her in a big sack or something rented a boat at Lake Mead and casually throw her in the water with a bunch of weights tied to her.  She would have sunk to the bottom and who knows how long it would be ebfore anyone would discover her if at all.  Just very stupid from the beginning.  Defintiely judgement calls from a deranged drug addict(s).

They were eager to cover up whatever it was that led to the young woman's death.  Whether it was choking on her own vomit due to a drug OD, erotic asphyxia gone too far, or a fight that ended with one person dead, it most likely happened in Craig & Kelly's home and at that point, they came up with a ridiculous plan to make it *look* as though she had been 'murdered' someplace else. 

In risk vs reward vs penalty after the death, they took a very stupid risk and there will be a price to pay.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: 240 is Back on December 30, 2005, 11:47:50 AM
Which one of them got the plea?

Gross.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: G o a t b o y on December 30, 2005, 11:52:21 AM
Gross.


That's old news.

If he was not involved in this until the "body disposal" phase, then he would have no first-hand knowledge of the actual murder and who did it and the circumstances surrounding it.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Tre on December 30, 2005, 12:25:05 PM
That's old news.

If he was not involved in this until the "body disposal" phase, then he would have no first-hand knowledge of the actual murder and who did it and the circumstances surrounding it.

All he did was burn or help burn a car, right? 

Sounds like a hundred hours of community service to me.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: bigdumbbell on December 30, 2005, 12:29:26 PM
imagine he freaked when confronted with the truth


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: G o a t b o y on December 30, 2005, 12:38:56 PM
All he did was burn or help burn a car, right? 

Sounds like a hundred hours of community service to me.

Actually, if he claims not to know anything about the body (and it isn't proven otherwise), and all he did was buy gas for Titus and watch him light the car on fire, he could end up with no jail time at all.  I mean, he knew the car belonged to Titus... add to that the fact he's just a 23-year-old kid doing what a 40-year-old adult told him to, and he could claim ignorance and being naive and could make out okay.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: gh15 on December 30, 2005, 12:41:33 PM
Actually, if he claims not to know anything about the body (and it isn't proven otherwise), and all he did was buy gas for Titus and watch him light the car on fire, he could end up with no jail time at all.  I mean, he knew the car belonged to Titus... add to that the fact he's just a 23-year-old kid doing what a 40-year-old adult told him to, and he could claim ignorance and being naive and could make out okay.

oh ya the little dude is fine. he'll be ok. probation probably


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Man of Steel on December 30, 2005, 01:40:21 PM
I think it was Colonel Mustard in the library with the candlestick.



MOS


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: knny187 on December 30, 2005, 03:12:47 PM
I think it was Colonel Mustard in the library with the candlestick.



MOS

BINGO

 ;D


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: NESTOR on December 30, 2005, 10:04:52 PM
ok ok well lets not forget the prosecutors usually play with the acused minds ...so that way they can try to soft them up and confess ....it is easier for the prosecutor to try this way hoping they will spill all the info try to get a deal and also cuts the job of the cops by at least half ....anyways the police and prosecutor always are going to try to use a lie hoping to get the truth ...example so and so ..in this case that moron in jail right now that it is involved ..told us that u did it and he will testify againts u so tell us whats up better we'll cut u a deal .. again this is only and example of what it could be use to soft them up... ::)


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: marsunit on December 30, 2005, 10:58:09 PM

That's old news.

If he was not involved in this until the "body disposal" phase, then he would have no first-hand knowledge of the actual murder and who did it and the circumstances surrounding it.

So limited value in flipping.

Since he's already made a statement that places Titus at the torching (although he left out the alleged Walmart trip) and that part's on TAPE anyway the deal would probably be to amend his statement so the prosecution can put their ducks in a row. He's not the glamour takedown the prosecutor wants anyway so I can see Gross mowing the lawn at City Hall ala the Runaway Bride (Keith Olberman is so funny).


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: suckmymuscle on December 31, 2005, 02:25:17 AM
I heard mention on another board that Phil Hernon has a reliable source that they are seeking the death penality on Craig and life in prison for Kelly. Unless this is just a BS move on the prosecutions part to rattle them they must have pretty solid evidence that Craig did the deed and it was premediated.

  Only if the charge of first degree murder is accepted in court. Which is possible, though unlikely.

SUCKMYMUSCLE


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Tre on December 31, 2005, 07:08:54 AM
  Only if the charge of first degree murder is accepted in court. Which is possible, though unlikely.

In Nevada, can a jury return a verdict of murder two (or lower) if the prosecutor charges murder one? 



Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Crusher on December 31, 2005, 07:32:48 AM
In Nevada, can a jury return a verdict of murder two (or lower) if the prosecutor charges murder one? 



The jury must do what the judge instructs them to do.  Not the prosecutor.  The judge might instruct the jury to render a verdict of only murder one, or he may give them the chance to depart from the original charge and tell them they can opt for murder2, or perhaps manslaughter.  It depends on how the case plays out, what evidence is presented and, sometimes, what the state will agree upon.  Everyone must do what the judge says - he/she rules the court room.  In fact, the judge can choose to reject the jury's verdict.  They could find CT and KR not guilty and the judge could reject the verdict and send them back to deliberate!!


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Norton on December 31, 2005, 08:02:39 AM
But is just someone stealing from you a bad enough reason to actually commit murder?  Think about it.

The theory that she was OD'd is much more believable.  That she OD'd and Craig/Kelly paniced knowing that news like that would bring heat on them with possible police trouble and sponsorship loss and quite possibly they were high too and not thinking and were simply trying to make the problem disappear.

I don't know, but it will really be interesting when all the facts come out.

This seems more likely than a brutal killing. But who knows. Three fvked up people leading fvcked lives.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Norton on December 31, 2005, 08:05:26 AM
(first time poster, long time on/off guest)

Puts a whole new light on Gross' involvement. Initial reports of merely handing over a gas can in the desert to Titus and driving him back wouldn't necessarily mean he knew about a murder. A lot easier to prove accessory being seen at Wallmart loading stuff in the back seat of the Jag."er..again, why won't this stuff fit in the trunk?" I smell a plea bargain not surprisingly.

Also, painkillers for the victim? just gets stranger all the time :o

Look here you  newbie, who are to open your mouth and give your 2 cents worth?













Just kidding. Figured I would do it before someone else did.

Welcome aboard.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Tre on December 31, 2005, 08:20:45 AM
The jury must do what the judge instructs them to do.  Not the prosecutor.  The judge might instruct the jury to render a verdict of only murder one, or he may give them the chance to depart from the original charge and tell them they can opt for murder2, or perhaps manslaughter.  It depends on how the case plays out, what evidence is presented and, sometimes, what the state will agree upon.  Everyone must do what the judge says - he/she rules the court room.  In fact, the judge can choose to reject the jury's verdict.  They could find CT and KR not guilty and the judge could reject the verdict and send them back to deliberate!!

Thanks for the explanation.  It's going to be almost impossible for us to get a history report on the judge, though, so there's no telling what he'll decide.  I know he can't pick sides, but I would imagine that he wants someone to be held accountable for whatever happened here.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Crusher on December 31, 2005, 10:21:17 AM
Thanks for the explanation.  It's going to be almost impossible for us to get a history report on the judge, though, so there's no telling what he'll decide.  I know he can't pick sides, but I would imagine that he wants someone to be held accountable for whatever happened here.

Actually, once CT & KR are formally charged with a crime and a judge gets adssigned tot he case we can definitely retrieve his/her history on Lexus Nexus.  The judge's job is to interpret the law, not choose sides It is the jury who will decide CT & KR's fate - even during the penalty phase, if there ever is one.  Few judges will have any sentiment for convicted murderers.  Remember Ted Bundy?  The judge liked him - would have loved to have had Bundy practice law in front of him, but "sadly, you took another pat, partner."  He still sentenced him to death.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: suckmymuscle on January 02, 2006, 01:53:47 AM
  I find it highly unlikely that Craig will get the needle, or the chair. Capital punishment is usually only given ,to perpetrators, who committed particularly heinous homocides. For the death penalty to be given, there must be demonstrated that the murderer acted with both purpose and malice. Titus killed that woman in a fit of rage. This menas that, if convicted, he'll probably get life without parole, or maybe even only 30-40 years. In any case, he's screwed.

SUCKMYMUSCLE


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: bigdumbbell on January 02, 2006, 04:46:11 AM
lets get some facts on the record and then decide the penalty


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Crusher on January 02, 2006, 01:28:50 PM
<<Titus killed that woman in a fit of rage. >>

Says who?


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: TJ-JD on January 02, 2006, 01:31:52 PM
They could find CT and KR not guilty and the judge could reject the verdict and send them back to deliberate!!

What are you basing this on?


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: suckmymuscle on January 02, 2006, 02:01:18 PM
<<Titus killed that woman in a fit of rage. >>

Says who?

  She was stealing and embezling them. When Titus found out, he lost his cool and charged her, with great wrath.

SUCKMYMUSCLE


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: bigdumbbell on January 02, 2006, 02:05:11 PM
doesnt that sound like justifiable homicide to you ? ::)


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: suckmymuscle on January 02, 2006, 10:43:17 PM
doesnt that sound like justifiable homicide to you ? ::)

  Yes, but it was not pre-meditated, or carries out with sadism or overt perversion. If Titus did it, is it murder? Definitely. Is it ABSOLUTELY a murder that must be payed, through the application of the death penalty. Absolutely not. If Titus had killed her by putting poison in her drink, or slowly dismembering her to death, then it would be a case for the death penalty. Believe it or not, killing out of rage is something that anyone of us could do. :-\ :'(

SUCKMYMUSCLE


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: G o a t b o y on January 02, 2006, 10:49:58 PM
Believe it or not, killing out of rage is something that anyone of us could do.

Of course.

But I wouldn't think many of us would be as bone-headed about getting rid of the body as ol' Craiggers was.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: suckmymuscle on January 02, 2006, 11:49:55 PM
Of course.

But I wouldn't think many of us would be as bone-headed about getting rid of the body as ol' Craiggers was.

  Agreed. Craig was a dumbass. He should have immediately fled the country, or delivered himself to the cops. Doing, what he did, only worsened his situation.

SUCKMYMUSCLE


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Mr. Zimbabwe on January 03, 2006, 10:55:41 AM
  Yes, but it was not pre-meditated, or carries out with sadism or overt perversion. If Titus did it, is it murder? Definitely. Is it ABSOLUTELY a murder that must be payed, through the application of the death penalty. Absolutely not. If Titus had killed her by putting poison in her drink, or slowly dismembering her to death, then it would be a case for the death penalty. Believe it or not, killing out of rage is something that anyone of us could do.

Was a toxicology report on the victim ever released?  (Could they even perform one?) Surely we would need to know if there was any chance of an OD ... especially if Titus tries to use this in his defence?

And "poison" was just mentioned which falls under premeditated-murder. Interesting thoughts.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: biggriss on January 19, 2006, 01:52:07 PM
Where was O J when all this was going on?


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Butterbean on January 19, 2006, 02:54:24 PM
He broke up a few vials of Nubain, poured it in her mouth,

What is Nubain?  What does it do?  Why do you think he did this?


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Acerimmer1 on January 19, 2006, 04:41:46 PM
They found her asphixiated in the trunk of a car right? Am I missing something because it seems pretty clear how she died from where I'm sitting.


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: buffalo on January 19, 2006, 07:15:31 PM
she was strangled to the point of death (unless they find carbon monoixide in her lungs)...


the hemorraging around her neck was caused by the ligature... news reports kept making it sound like she had a scarf wrapped around her neck..."fabric"..I mean it was a ligature...with hemorraging....= strangulation...they can also check her eyes since they were protected from the fire by the duck tape to see if there was further petechial hemorraging in the eyes and in the eyelids and under the eyes as well


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: onlyme on January 20, 2006, 12:45:56 AM
Would love to see the actual coroner report


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: bigdumbbell on January 20, 2006, 04:38:45 AM
Would love to see the actual coroner report
we shall see it onlyme


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: buffalo on January 21, 2006, 06:55:55 AM
Curious if there was any blunt force trauma...I also find it curious that tape was all around Melissa's face even over her eyes...someone musta felt a little guilty or freaked out by seeing her eyes..there was no other necessary reason to do that in this case

the lighter fluiud was purchased by kelly...is there any word on if there is evidence of the purchase of duct tape or the ligature material, or was that just something that was already on hand in their possession?

Just curious

Has forensics gone over the La Quinta hotel room yet??


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: STICKGIRL on January 24, 2006, 06:31:35 PM
a couple of scumbags if you ask me.
you're so right big dick


Title: Re: Death for Craig and life for Kelly?
Post by: Soul Crusher on May 11, 2012, 04:35:07 PM
  I find it highly unlikely that Craig will get the needle, or the chair. Capital punishment is usually only given ,to perpetrators, who committed particularly heinous homocides. For the death penalty to be given, there must be demonstrated that the murderer acted with both purpose and malice. Titus killed that woman in a fit of rage. This menas that, if convicted, he'll probably get life without parole, or maybe even only 30-40 years. In any case, he's screwed.

SUCKMYMUSCLE

Now that the shoe is on the other foot . . . . . .