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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Industry Business Technology Board => Topic started by: Chadwick The Beta on December 28, 2013, 02:59:41 PM



Title: Gold - Discussion - Price going up or down?
Post by: Chadwick The Beta on December 28, 2013, 02:59:41 PM
Ridiculous.  The price of gold will remain the same.  Or go lower.

-Ron


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: 24KT on December 28, 2013, 03:16:35 PM
Ridiculous.  The price of gold will remain the same.  Or go lower.

-Ron


Gold will be $10,000 oz - Peter Schiff

Gold will be $20,000 oz - Mike Maloney

Gold will be $50,000 + oz - Adrian Douglas, John Sinclair, Nick Barisheff, Ron Kirby

When I  factor in all the fundamentals, crunch all the numbers etc, I concludes Golds long term destination is in the Adrian Douglas camp. I have no problem taking out a free insurance policy just in case. If only I had the time frame, I'd be laughing.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: Chadwick The Beta on December 28, 2013, 03:22:35 PM
Gold will be $10,000 oz - Peter Schiff

Gold will be $20,000 oz - Mike Maloney

Gold will be $50,000 + oz - Adrian Douglas, John Sinclair, Nick Barisheff, Ron Kirby

When I  factor in all the fundamentals, crunch all the numbers etc, I concludes Golds long term destination is in the Adrian Douglas camp. I have no problem taking out a free insurance policy just in case. If only I had the time frame, I'd be laughing.

if...if...if

oh, brother   ::)

Twenty years from now, you'll still be spamming internet message boards with magic gas pills or tired cash for gold schemes.  If you aren't back in prison, that is.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: Mr.1derful on December 28, 2013, 05:03:13 PM
Ridiculous.  The price of gold will remain the same.  Or go lower.

-Ron


Gold will be notably higher within 6 months.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: T-REX007 on December 28, 2013, 06:13:39 PM
Stalin across the board was EVERY BIT AS BAD AS HITLER, he was just on the winning side, history is always written by the winners, that's why it's called HIStory


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: tu_holmes on December 28, 2013, 07:24:25 PM
Gold will be notably higher within 6 months.
No it won't.

It's been on a steady decline for the past year. It won't be high like that again for another 20-30 years.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: Mr.1derful on December 28, 2013, 07:33:54 PM
No it won't.

It's been on a steady decline for the past year. It won't be high like that again for another 20-30 years.

You'll be proven very wrong, I guarantee it.  Gold breaks $2000 in 2014. 


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: 24KT on December 28, 2013, 07:51:11 PM
No it won't.

It's been on a steady decline for the past year. It won't be high like that again for another 20-30 years.

Sorry Tu, but NO WAY!!!  There's no way it takes that long.
My personal preference would be in the next 4-5 years, but I don't think well have the luxury of time.
Everywhere I look, all indications are telling me it will be much sooner than that... 2014, possibly 2015, but 2016 at the latest. Quite frankly I'm surprised they managed to keep it going this long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPXOZYn4qSY


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: 24KT on December 28, 2013, 07:53:36 PM
You'll be proven very wrong, I guarantee it.  Gold breaks $2000 in 2014. 

I hope not, I'm hoping it keeps going lower, ...but I'm not sure how many more smashes they can orchestrate without collapsing everything prematurely before they're ready to collapse it all. You could very well be right though.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: whork on December 28, 2013, 07:54:24 PM
Stalin across the board was EVERY BIT AS BAD AS HITLER, he was just on the winning side, history is always written by the winners, that's why it's called HIStory



Its common knowledge that Stalin was the worst mass-murderer in the 20th century so im a little confused with your post.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: Chadwick The Beta on December 28, 2013, 07:55:59 PM
Far more have been murdered in the name of "a woman's right to choose" than by Hitler or Stalin.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: Archer77 on December 28, 2013, 07:57:03 PM

He is remembered as the An Evil Demigod......, who took an impoverished country...........built it up, and destroyed it in a period of twelve years.....!!!....With much death, destruction left in his wake.    A self absorbed, egocentric nightmare, who should have been aborted....."Not that I am bitter"!!!!

This is a pretty good summary. 


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: Mr.1derful on December 28, 2013, 08:02:43 PM
Far more have been murdered in the name of "a woman's right to choose" than by Hitler or Stalin.


Good point.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: whork on December 28, 2013, 08:07:06 PM
Far more have been murdered in the name of "a woman's right to choose" than by Hitler or Stalin.



Many more are murdered everytime you ejaculate. A sperm cell is alive you know.

Does that make you feel like a killer?


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: 24KT on December 28, 2013, 08:19:07 PM

Many more are murdered everytime you ejaculate. A sperm cell is alive you know.

Does that make you feel like a killer?

I get the feeling he shoots blanks, ...if he's even capable of getting it up at all


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: Chadwick The Beta on December 28, 2013, 08:47:51 PM
I get the feeling he shoots blanks, ...if he's even capable of getting it up at all

Hilarious.  Did you learn that joke in prison?

("report to moderator")   phuck off gorilla kvnt



Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: Chadwick The Beta on December 28, 2013, 08:48:28 PM

Many more are murdered everytime you ejaculate. A sperm cell is alive you know.

Does that make you feel like a killer?

It's not my fault your mother stopped ovulating.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: whork on December 28, 2013, 10:03:54 PM
It's not my fault your mother stopped ovulating.


Ahh so you are the one with the small dick who cant get it up? She had a thing for bible tumbling losers in life once.

She has found a real man now but i should send you her regards.




Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: Chadwick The Beta on December 29, 2013, 05:03:51 AM

Ahh so you are the one with the small dick who cant get it up? She had a thing for bible tumbling losers in life once.

She has found a real man now but i should send you her regards.




Since she is in such a confessional mood, maybe now is a good time to ask her the real name of your black father who died of the AIDS which he caught from your mother.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: whork on December 29, 2013, 10:02:19 AM
Since she is in such a confessional mood, maybe now is a good time to ask her the real name of your black father who died of the AIDS which he caught from your mother.



If he got it from my mother she would have died first no?


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: avxo on December 29, 2013, 07:19:22 PM
Gold will be $10,000 oz - Peter Schiff

LOL... It won't be.


Gold will be $20,000 oz - Mike Maloney

LMAO... No, no, it won't be.


Gold will be $50,000 + oz - Adrian Douglas, John Sinclair, Nick Barisheff, Ron Kirby

ROFLMAO... No, really. Read what I'm telling you: it won't be.


When I  factor in all the fundamentals

What do you know about fundamentals? What do you know about economics and factoring things in? By your own admission, nothing. You just regurgitate what others write (remember that time when I caught you copy-pasting some other idiot's blog and trying to pass it as your own on here?), post links to shitty youtube videos either recorded by people as knowledgeable as you in their basement, or by conspiracy theorists, and you just repeat the same nonsense over and over again, as if repetition is bound to make it true.


crunch all the numbers etc

Crunch the numbers? You must be joking. You don't know basic arithmetic. Sidenote: gold has dropped 25% in 2013 alone. You can't go to $50,000/oz by losing value; numbers don't work like that.


I concludes Golds long term destination is in the Adrian Douglas camp.

Your conclusions - if they can be called that - are laughable. Not only are they biased, but they are meaningless to begin with since you base them on nothing but information that is bad, unreliable or incomplete, made worse by poor "analysis" by you and others.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: avxo on December 29, 2013, 07:26:31 PM
Gold will be notably higher within 6 months.

You want to bet? I am willing to bet that the spot price of gold per ounce will be lower on June 1st 2014 than it will be on January 1st 2014. And I'm willing to bet a serious amount too. Loser pays $5,000.

The only caveat is we both have to put the money in escrow with a getbigger we both trust before January 1st. I'm willing to transfer the funds first thing Monday morning. Let's see you put your money where your mouth is asshole.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: Mr.1derful on December 29, 2013, 08:05:11 PM
You want to bet? I am willing to bet that the spot price of gold per ounce will be lower on June 1st 2014 than it will be on January 1st 2014. And I'm willing to bet a serious amount too. Loser pays $5,000.

The only caveat is we both have to put the money in escrow with a getbigger we both trust before January 1st. I'm willing to transfer the funds first thing Monday morning. Let's see you put your money where your mouth is asshole.

My being right will be more than reward enough, asshole.  .....In addition to the appreciation of my gold.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: 24KT on December 29, 2013, 08:14:42 PM
My being right will be more than reward enough, asshole.  .....In addition to the appreciation of my gold.

Well said my friend!   ;D


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: tonymctones on December 29, 2013, 08:22:18 PM
Well said my friend!   ;D
wont make it true, didnt make it true this year either with all your hocking and snake oil salesmanship


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: Chadwick The Beta on December 29, 2013, 08:24:36 PM
wont make it true, didnt make it true this year either with all your hocking and snake oil salesmanship

If this keeps up, she'll have to go back to magic gas pills, a business she once described as "very lucrative."

 ::)


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: tonymctones on December 29, 2013, 08:26:11 PM
If this keeps up, she'll have to go back to magic gas pills, a business she once described as "very lucrative."

 ::)

Ive been wanting to start a thread for a while now where we can post what we think her next scam will be but I am not sure where to put it. LOL


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: Chadwick The Beta on December 29, 2013, 08:27:51 PM
Ive been wanting to start a thread for a while now where we can post what we think her next scam will be but I am not sure where to put it. LOL

Probably in the "natural bodybuilders" thread because delusion is pretty strong there. 


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: tonymctones on December 29, 2013, 08:32:18 PM
Probably in the "natural bodybuilders" thread because delusion is pretty strong there. 
hahahah


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: avxo on December 29, 2013, 09:06:48 PM
My being right will be more than reward enough, asshole.  .....In addition to the appreciation of my gold.

Talk is cheap. If you are so sure you're right, take the bet.


Well said my friend!   ;D

What? You're still alive? Haven't you moved on to selling dorodangos (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorodango) or colon cleanse pills wrapped in plastic?


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: 24KT on December 29, 2013, 09:27:53 PM
LOL... It won't be.

LMAO... No, no, it won't be.

ROFLMAO... No, really. Read what I'm telling you: it won't be.

You're making me laugh again, ...and I don't like it. STOP THAT!

What do you know about fundamentals? What do you know about economics and factoring things in? By your own admission, nothing.

By my own admission, I don't dare present myself as knowledgable without a piece of paper to validate the assertion. Besides, people don't need to be knowledgeable to take full advantage of the opportunity before them. That's the illusion they create, ...the smoke in front of the mirrors. I would hate for people to think they have to have some kind of specialized degree to benefit from what is before them. They don't.

You just regurgitate what others write (remember that time when I caught you copy-pasting some other idiot's blog and trying to pass it as your own on here?), post links to shitty youtube videos either recorded by people as knowledgeable as you in their basement, or by conspiracy theorists, and you just repeat the same nonsense over and over again, as if repetition is bound to make it true.

I often re-post the words of others (experts on the subject) because I am not about to make myself vulnerable to charges of dispensing financial advice without a license to do so. i don't give financial advice. i form opinions, and share them with those who ask.  :)

BTW: Those were my own words... evidently the product of a semi-photographic memory.  :-\

Crunch the numbers? You must be joking. You don't know basic arithmetic.

 :o  I DO TOO KNOW ARITHMETIC!

I'm a networker. I know enough to know that 2+2=7  ...and that's just for starters. :P

Sidenote: gold has dropped 25% in 2013 alone. You can't go to $50,000/oz by losing value; numbers don't work like that.

There is a huge difference between PRICE & VALUE.
The PRICE of gold has gone down, however it's value remains the same... for now.  :D

I happen to believe the PRICE of gold has no choice but to eventually be reset much, much, much higher.

Before that occurs though, I am hoping it takes a further beating, enabling more & more people to acquire that much more of it. In the meantime, I'm going to continue to work my plan to acquire as much gold as possible for no out-of-pocket cost, using a simple duplicatable SYSTEM, that empowers everyone, from every walk of life, whether they have a shovel in their hand, or a stethoscope around their necks, to acquire 24KT 999.9 pure LBMA gold bullion bars, in smaller, more transaction friendly weights.

Your conclusions - if they can be called that - are laughable. Not only are they biased, but they are meaningless to begin with since you base them on nothing but information that is bad, unreliable or incomplete, made worse by poor "analysis" by you and others.

You find my conclusions laughable because you are completely unaware of the methodology used in arriving to those conclusions, ...and you are too terrified to have a two-way voice conversation to even discuss it. :P

ps: The poor analysis you refer to made one of my friends over a BILLION dollars, ...and yes, that was a B
It's only a matter of time... any day now... and POP! A whole new financial reset, until then, I'll keep on stackin'


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: avxo on December 29, 2013, 10:51:04 PM
By my own admission, I don't dare present myself as knowledgable without a piece of paper to validate the assertion. Besides, people don't need to be knowledgeable to take full advantage of the opportunity before them.

No, but they need to at least evaluate the opportunity. If they don't, they'll get swindled. Just like you did when people dragged you into this shitty "gold-by-the-gram-in-gaudy-plastic-cards" scam. You got swindled and now you're trying to swindle others.


That's the illusion they create, ...the smoke in front of the mirrors. I would hate for people to think they have to have some kind of specialized degree to benefit from what is before them. They don't.

People don't need to have a specialized degree. But then again, most people don't try to sit here, drumming up how the economy is past the brink and is collapsing as we speak (has it happened yet? (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=501573.0)) in an effort to peddle their wares.

You, on the other hand, post nonsense from any source you can find - and when challenged you reply with the "I saw it, I posted it" defense.

You are a scammer - you just aren't as sleek as most scammers are. First you peddled gas pills. Now you're peddling gold. And you'll be offering in-car handjobs for $20 soon enough.


I often re-post the words of others (experts on the subject) because I am not about to make myself vulnerable to charges of dispensing financial advice without a license to do so. i don't give financial advice. i form opinions, and share them with those who ask.  :)

Yeah... you don't give financial advice; you share opinions. First of all, it's a meaningless distinction that you attempt to hide behind. More importantly, your opinions are worth nothing - even the shitty plastic cards you sell are worth more. You know nothing about economics, so your opinions on the subject are about as good as the opinions of a greengrocer on differential cryptanalysis, or a heavy metal musician on the finer points of thrust-vectored exhausts in next-generation fighter jets.

As for the "experts" whose words you repost - don't make me laugh. You try to pass idiots like "Pastor Lyndsey Williams" as experts. They whip their followers up into a frenzy about the inevitable doom and disaster that's just around the corner and then, just when all seems lost, they offer the solution, like Manna from heaven.

Let me be very clear: you're stupid and having learned a term or two about economics, you've convinced yourself that that equates to understanding and you are now trying to convince people to invest their money in a bad product. You're a fucking shyster.


I'm a networker. I know enough to know that 2+2=7  ...and that's just for starters. :P

I don't think "idiot" is spelled like that.



There is a huge difference between PRICE & VALUE.
The PRICE of gold has gone down, however it's value remains the same... for now.  :D

Please, proceed to educate us on how valuable gold is. Remember, this is a product that you claim you are receiving for free. How does that factor into the whole value analysis?


I happen to believe the PRICE of gold has no choice but to eventually be reset much, much, much higher.

And Harold Camping believed the world would end in May 21st 2011 - a figure later revised to October 21st of that same year. When the end of the world didn't come, he claimed he was flabbergasted. So you know what? Fuck your beliefs. Can you provide a reasoned argument based on facts? If you can't, then take your beliefs and keep them along with the flotsam and jetsam in the tepid bathwater inside your cranium.


Before that occurs though, I am hoping it takes a further beating, enabling more & more people to acquire that much more of it. In the meantime, I'm going to continue to work my plan to acquire as much gold as possible for no out-of-pocket cost, using a simple duplicatable SYSTEM, that empowers everyone, from every walk of life, whether they have a shovel in their hand, or a stethoscope around their necks, to acquire 24KT 999.9 pure LBMA gold bullion bars, in smaller, more transaction friendly weights.


OK, so first things first: an ISO/IEC 7810 plastic card (i.e. a plastic card the size of a typical credit card) is not a gold bar. Second, that plastic card (which is over 90% plastic) cannot be 999.9 pure gold since it's over 90% plastic. Third, you're trying to get people to buy into a proprietary, non-portable, non-liquid form factor that's not even cost-effective (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=476435.msg6851492#msg6851492).

Oh, and you know... every time you say "no out-of-pocket cost" you are advertising to everyone that the product that you're selling them has no value. Only something of no value is routinely given away.

You find my conclusions laughable because you are completely unaware of the methodology used in arriving to those conclusions

I know the methodology used to arrive to your conclusions - I've seen others use it before, on a wide variety of subjects: "If a statement agrees with my existing beliefs, then it's valid. Otherwise it's not. If someone challenges me, I'll say the same thing again. If they continue challenging me, I'll post some links to others who share my existing beliefs and are, therefore, right. If the person still insists on challenging me, then I will make references about how they don't understand, or they refuse to see, or are blinded by something. I'm smart. I can't go wrong. Yay me."

Some "methodology".


...and you are too terrified to have a two-way voice conversation to even discuss it. :P

Discuss what? You've already admitted you don't know economics. You've already established that you know jackshit about the bullion market. Why should I waste my time to get a "two-way voice conversation" with you only to hear you regurgitate the same incoherent shit you type?

But you know... perhaps the "for shits and giggles" factor is enough. Tell you what, let's have that "voice conversation." Only, it's not going to be just two way. It's going to be on a Google hangout - a public one, so that anyone from on here who wants to will be able to join and listen to you spout your nonsense. It will be recorded and posted on here, so that people will be able to listen to you make an even bigger ass out of yourself. And it will serve as a warning to anyone on the web that googles the name "Karatbars" by giving them a chance to not only learn what a scam Karatbars are, but to see exactly the caliber of idiot they're going to be dealing with.


ps: The poor analysis you refer to made one of my friends over a BILLION dollars, ...and yes, that was a B
It's only a matter of time... any day now... and POP! A whole new financial reset, until then, I'll keep on stackin'

Yeah, you've mentioned your multiple billionaire friends, all of whom flock to you - the person who admits to knowing nothing about economics and who peddles mail-order gas pills and gold by the gram - for investment advice.

Do you think anyone buys this bullshit that you peddle?


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: Mr.1derful on December 30, 2013, 04:48:57 AM
Talk is cheap. If you are so sure you're right, take the bet.



You said put my money where my mouth is.  I already have, I own gold.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: avxo on December 30, 2013, 06:32:30 AM
You said put my money where my mouth is.  I already have, I own gold.

In other words, you won't take the bet. Got it.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: 24KT on December 30, 2013, 08:42:07 AM
:o  :o  WoW, I see you've really been chugging on the Hatorade! Becareful, wouldn't want you to choke.  :-\

No, but they need to at least evaluate the opportunity. If they don't, they'll get swindled. Just like you did when people dragged you into this shitty "gold-by-the-gram-in-gaudy-plastic-cards" scam.

By "what is before them", I was referring to the upcoming event I believe will be the global financial reset. But who knows, ...it may not be an event with great fanfare, ...it could simply be a slow painful gradual death, bleeding green ink as it whimpers & gasps for air... kind of like whats taking place now.

You got swindled and now you're trying to swindle others.

LOL, Trust me when I tell you,  I did NOT get swindled. Far from it.

People don't need to have a specialized degree. But then again, most people don't try to sit here, drumming up how the economy is past the brink and is collapsing as we speak (has it happened yet? (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=501573.0)) in an effort to peddle their wares.

Wake Up! There happens to be some serious poo about to hit the fan.

You keep forgetting something... I don't sell gold. I'm acquiring it.

There are basically 4 ways to acquire Gold

1) You can inherit it (Is that in your future? It wasn't in mine)

2) You can mine or pan for it. (Alot of people do it. Zimbabweans do it everyday, just to survive from day to day after Mugabe printed their currency into oblivion. Truth be told tho... my manicure screams, just thinking about it)

3) You can purchase it out of your own pocket (This is probably the most common way people acquire gold) which means you're always running around trying to find the best 'just over spot price' dealer you can find, but worse, you're always limited by how much discretionary income you have available that is not already committed to your existing obligations (rent/mortgage, bills, food, clothing, tuition etc.)

4) The least known way to acquire Gold, is to set up a gold savings account, and use a SYSTEM, founded upon 4 Timeless & Proven Wealth Creation Principals. This system creates a perpetual like Gold acquisition account, that provides the gold to you from the SYSTEM, and NOT out of your own pocket. The system spins off residual income (cash flow) and gold, empowering account holders to acquire far more gold through the system, than they could ever acquire if using method #3

If you or anyone else wants to use methods 1 thru 3, hey, knock yourself out. I am using method #4


You, on the other hand, post nonsense from any source you can find - and when challenged you reply with the "I saw it, I posted it" defense.

You are a scammer - you just aren't as sleek as most scammers are. First you peddled gas pills.

Actually, I'm rather sleek. I'm not slick, and I don't try to be, ...but sleek...I am that.

But ya, I sold mpg caplets... what of it? I saved a fortune in fuel costs, ...and so did  the truckers I sold them to. In some cases, ...it made the difference between many of these guys staying in business or parking their rigs. I even had one guy who I was able to help knock $68,000 off his annual fuel costs. An extra $68,000 added to your bottom line in a year goes a long way. He was even able to get his 2nd rig back on the road. Those mpg caplets also saved many others from having to endure costly mechanic fees in order to pass emissions testing. I make no apologies for that. Infact, I'm rather proud of that actually.

Now you're peddling gold.

For the umpteenth time... I don't sell gold.

And you'll be offering in-car handjobs for $20 soon enough.

:o  Now that is just straight up rude, tacky, classless and out of line.
You're getting far too carried away with yourself.

Yeah... you don't give financial advice; you share opinions. First of all, it's a meaningless distinction that you attempt to hide behind. More importantly, your opinions are worth nothing - even the shitty plastic cards you sell are worth more. You know nothing about economics, so your opinions on the subject are about as good as the opinions of a greengrocer on differential cryptanalysis, or a heavy metal musician on the finer points of thrust-vectored exhausts in next-generation fighter jets.

You done yet? ... I guess not...

As for the "experts" whose words you repost - don't make me laugh. You try to pass idiots like "Pastor Lyndsey Williams" as experts. They whip their followers up into a frenzy about the inevitable doom and disaster that's just around the corner and then, just when all seems lost, they offer the solution, like Manna from heaven.

{smile} Actually, I wouldn't consider Lyndsey Williams an expert... he's just a guy who claims to have "insider information." He's been accurate on a few things, but I tend to take him with a huge grain of salt. ;)

By experts... I'm referring more to guys like Jim Sinclair, Jim Willie, Mike Maloney, James Turk, Chris Powell, Adrian Douglas (may he RIP) Peter Schiff, Tyler Durden of Zero Hedge, Egon Von Greyerz, Eric Sprott, Alasdair McLeod, Gerald Celente, Jim Rickards etc., etc.,

Let me be very clear: you're stupid and having learned a term or two about economics, you've convinced yourself that that equates to understanding and you are now trying to convince people to invest their money in a bad product. You're a fucking shyster.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to invest in anything.
I don't give investment advice.

A misrepresentation has been made, and I am simply clarifying what it is I am doing.  I AM acquiring my gold from a Stuttgart based e-Commerce company, using a system that rewards me quite well to exchange an increasingly worth-less money-substitute (fiat paper currency) for real money (gold). The gold that I acquire through my account is not a speculative "investment" for trading. It's an account that empowers me to save in gold. I'm not looking to sell my gold, I'm accumulating it in transaction, friendly weights.

My system pays me quite generously 5x's a month. In my system, every Friday, and every 1st of the month, are PAYDAYs, which spin off pure profit (denominated in €) as well as gold.


Please, proceed to educate us on how valuable gold is. Remember, this is a product that you claim you are receiving for free. How does that factor into the whole value analysis?

I'm not a teacher, ...and I don't claim to provide financial education, ...but for me it's pretty simple. So simple it's elementary. It boils down to these very simple reasons:

Gold has a 6,000+ year old track record as money that's been all positive
Fiat paper currency has a track record that's been quite negative.
History is littered with what many refer to as "The Fiat Currency Graveyard"


In 1971, one gram of gold would have bought 5 loaves of bread.
In 1971, one dollar (FRN) would have bought 4 loaves of bread.

Fast forward 43 years later after the link between gold & the FRN was severed:
That same one gram of gold 43 years later, now buys 20 loaves of bread.
That same one US Dollar (FRN) however now only buys less than 1/3 of a loaf of bread.

As Bernanke prints money, the FRN rapidly loses its purchasing power, as well as it's desirability as a reserve currency. In my opinion, it's already dead in the water. While gold's overall purchasing power on the other hand, has largely remained quite constant over the years if not increased in purchasing power. Historically, in times of financial duress, the gold price has always moved to reflect the amount of currency in circulation. Those who refuse or perhaps are incapable of learning the lessons from history, are doomed to repeat it, and the USA seems determined to make the same mistakes made by China, France, Germany, Zimbabwe, ...and a slew of others. As such, I will be saving real money (gold) instead of the money substitute (fiat currency)

The spot price of gold has fallen below the production price. That makes it undervalued. Mines are shutting down production. Above ground stores of gold are being drained. Weekly Gold shipments into China alone exceed global production. It's just basic common sense that pretty soon, there's gonna be a shortage.

And Harold Camping believed the world would end in May 21st 2011 - a figure later revised to October 21st of that same year. When the end of the world didn't come, he claimed he was flabbergasted. So you know what? Fuck your beliefs.

ROTFLMAO

I don't need your permission, understanding, or approval to make decisions in my own life. I'm acquiring gold, ...and I've chosen to do so using Method #4. You're welcome to choose Methods 1 thru 3 if you like, ...or stay in a fiat paper currency money substitute. It's your choice, ...it's your life.

Can you provide a reasoned argument based on facts? If you can't, then take your beliefs and keep them along with the flotsam and jetsam in the tepid bathwater inside your cranium.

I just did.

OK, so first things first: an ISO/IEC 7810 plastic card (i.e. a plastic card the size of a typical credit card) is not a gold bar.

No, a plastic card the size of a credit card is NOT the gold bar, and I never claimed it was. I don't know how you could have possibly gotten that impression, but it is incorrect. The credit card sized plastic card is the certificate of authenticity that surrounds the gold bar. The gold bullion bar is embedded within the certificate of authenticity, and always travels with the certificate, thereby empowering an individual to take physical possession of the gold from out of the vault, without having the same burden of proof that exists for any other asset class of gold.

Second, that plastic card (which is over 90% plastic) cannot be 999.9 pure gold since it's over 90% plastic.

:o  Are you serious? Or are you just trying to be difficult? Sometimes it hard to tell with you.

The plastic card is plastic.
The gold bar is 999.9 pure 24 KT gold produced by a LBMA Good Delivery List refinery.

Let's get real here. By your line of reasoning my manicurist is a shyster because when i get nail polish from her, it comes in a glass bottle, and had a plastic lid... with a brush attached... and therefore it couldn't possibly be genuine nail polish. Come to think of it, the owners of my  local bakery must be a bunch of shysters too. Whenever, I get bread from them, it comes in either a paper or plastic bag, ...sometimes it even has a twist-tie on the end, and occasionally a little plastic thingy. ::)

Third, you're trying to get people to buy into a proprietary, non-portable, non-liquid form factor that's not even cost-effective (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=476435.msg6851492#msg6851492).

Incorrect again. I really don't care if someone uses the same system I am. What's most important to me, is that I AM using this system. Like I said previously, ...you're welcome to acquire your gold using Methods 1 through 3 if that's your preference. Method #4 simply makes the most sense to me. I also happen to find it to be the most cost-effective as well.


Oh, and you know... every time you say "no out-of-pocket cost" you are advertising to everyone that the product that you're selling them has no value. Only something of no value is routinely given away.


That may be what you're hearing, ...but it's certainly not what I'm saying.
Again, I'm not selling anything.

I know the methodology used to arrive to your conclusions - I've seen others use it before, on a wide variety of subjects: "If a statement agrees with my existing beliefs, then it's valid. Otherwise it's not. If someone challenges me, I'll say the same thing again. If they continue challenging me, I'll post some links to others who share my existing beliefs and are, therefore, right. If the person still insists on challenging me, then I will make references about how they don't understand, or they refuse to see, or are blinded by something. I'm smart. I can't go wrong. Yay me."

Some "methodology".


Discuss what? You've already admitted you don't know economics. You've already established that you know jackshit about the bullion market. Why should I waste my time to get a "two-way voice conversation" with you only to hear you regurgitate the same incoherent shit you type?

But you know... perhaps the "for shits and giggles" factor is enough. Tell you what, let's have that "voice conversation." Only, it's not going to be just two way. It's going to be on a Google hangout - a public one, so that anyone from on here who wants to will be able to join and listen to you spout your nonsense. It will be recorded and posted on here, so that people will be able to listen to you make an even bigger ass out of yourself. And it will serve as a warning to anyone on the web that googles the name "Karatbars" by giving them a chance to not only learn what a scam Karatbars are, but to see exactly the caliber of idiot they're going to be dealing with.

I thought you were shy, ...and didn't like to reveal yourself unless you were oiled-up, on-stage, ...and in a thong?  ???

Yeah, you've mentioned your multiple billionaire friends, all of whom flock to you - the person who admits to knowing nothing about economics and who peddles mail-order gas pills and gold by the gram - for investment advice.

When did I ever say they "flock to me for investment advice?"
its more like the other way around. i believe what i said is that they respect and often welcome my opinions, when we have discussions... discussions on a variety of topics.


Title: Re: Gold
Post by: tu_holmes on December 30, 2013, 09:27:04 AM
Thanks for fucking up a perfectly good hitler thread.

All for some fucking carat bars that if you bought 6 months ago, would be worth less now than then.

How's that for a fact.



Title: Re: Gold
Post by: 24KT on December 30, 2013, 11:49:37 AM
Thanks for fucking up a perfectly good hitler thread.

All for some fucking carat bars that if you bought 6 months ago, would be worth less now than then.

How's that for a fact.


You can thank Chadwick, and Avxo.
Chadwick deliberately threw in an off- topic unrelated jab, and the mods left it.
Don't act all innocent and indignant, you participated in the gold discussion as well.
I wanted to discreetly make my comments and move on, as I've done in other threads,
Avxo entered from stage left, to do what he clearly loves to do, ...and voilà, ...here we are.
The Hitler thread is still going on Political tho


Title: Re: Gold
Post by: Chadwick The Beta on December 30, 2013, 03:50:19 PM
You can thank Chadwick, and Avxo.
Chadwick deliberately threw in an off- topic unrelated jab, and the mods left it.
Don't act all innocent and indignant, you participated in the gold discussion as well.
I wanted to discreetly make my comments and move on, as I've done in other threads,
Avxo entered from stage left, to do what he clearly loves to do, ...and voilà, ...here we are.
The Hitler thread is still going on Political tho

It would be better for all if you "moved on" to another board...maybe one with like-minded scammers and would-be pyramid scheme "empire builders"   

You are one delusional toss-piece.


Title: Re: Gold
Post by: avxo on December 30, 2013, 03:56:45 PM
Thanks for fucking up a perfectly good hitler thread.

All for some fucking carat bars that if you bought 6 months ago, would be worth less now than then.

How's that for a fact.

Trolls need to smacked. Trolls like 24KT need to be smacked twice as hard and consistently. If they aren't, they breed and soon you end up with a forum filled with her and her ilk.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: avxo on December 30, 2013, 04:48:22 PM
By "what is before them", I was referring to the upcoming event I believe will be the global financial reset. But who knows, ...it may not be an event with great fanfare, ...it could simply be a slow painful gradual death, bleeding green ink as it whimpers & gasps for air... kind of like whats taking place now.

Again... who cares what you believe about the financial reset? Save it for the "billionaires" who "respect" and "welcome" your opinions. Nobody here cares about what you have to say.


LOL, Trust me when I tell you,  I did NOT get swindled. Far from it.

No, I won't trust you. Your actions and words make it impossible for me to trust you. If you told me the sun rose in the east I wouldn't trust you.


You keep forgetting something... I don't sell gold. I'm acquiring it.

Of course you don't sell it. You just "inform" people about a way to acquire gold in tiny amounts and at a ridiculous markup and you pretend it's some revolutionary system. It's not.


1) You can inherit it (Is that in your future? It wasn't in mine)

2) You can mine or pan for it. (Alot of people do it. Zimbabweans do it everyday, just to survive from day to day after Mugabe printed their currency into oblivion. Truth be told tho... my manicure screams, just thinking about it)

3) You can purchase it out of your own pocket (This is probably the most common way people acquire gold) which means you're always running around trying to find the best 'just over spot price' dealer you can find, but worse, you're always limited by how much discretionary income you have available that is not already committed to your existing obligations (rent/mortgage, bills, food, clothing, tuition etc.)

Oh boy, the situation is looking grim for the prospective gold buyer of limited means. Oh, if only there was a soluti... but wait! there is!

4) The least known way to acquire Gold, is to set up a gold savings account, and use a SYSTEM, founded upon 4 Timeless & Proven Wealth Creation Principals. This system creates a perpetual like Gold acquisition account, that provides the gold to you from the SYSTEM, and NOT out of your own pocket. The system spins off residual income (cash flow) and gold, empowering account holders to acquire far more gold through the system, than they could ever acquire if using method #3

Ah, yes. The least known way, and, curiously, the best one too. It's a well-kept secret. The gold comes from the "SYSTEM" - a "SYSTEM" founded upon proven wealth creation principals, like paying huge markup to buy gold in very tiny amounts. By "spinning off" it "empowers" one to acquire gold from the "SYSTEM".

Read what you're writing. Do you think that any sane person buys this bullshit?


If you or anyone else wants to use methods 1 thru 3, hey, knock yourself out. I am using method #4
But ya, I sold mpg caplets... what of it? I saved a fortune in fuel costs, ...and so did  the truckers I sold them to. In some cases, ...it made the difference between many of these guys staying in business or parking their rigs. I even had one guy who I was able to help knock $68,000 off his annual fuel costs. An extra $68,000 added to your bottom line in a year goes a long way. He was even able to get his 2nd rig back on the road. Those mpg caplets also saved many others from having to endure costly mechanic fees in order to pass emissions testing. I make no apologies for that. Infact, I'm rather proud of that actually.[/quote]

There's nothing wrong with it - provided the things worked. Can you explain to us how they do? By what means did they improve fuel efficiency? The "testimonials" you cite are all well and good - but also worthless. There's people who claim sticking magnets in the fuel line improves their MPG too. They're all over youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0JRfKfbJqQ). In fact (and I'm ashamed to admit this) I know one person who swears by it.

How are your gas pills different from magnets? Specifically. If you can't explain the underlying mechanism by which they work, or point to someone who can, then I submit that your gas pills are a scam, no different than magnets in the fuel life.


For the umpteenth time... I don't sell gold.

You just spam a bodybuilding forum about what a great opportunity it is and how, any day now, this worldwide network of merchants willing to accept gold by the gram will spring up.


{smile} Actually, I wouldn't consider Lyndsey Williams an expert... he's just a guy who claims to have "insider information." He's been accurate on a few things, but I tend to take him with a huge grain of salt. ;)

Of course you do.


By experts... I'm referring more to guys like Jim Sinclair, Jim Willie, Mike Maloney, James Turk, Chris Powell, Adrian Douglas (may he RIP) Peter Schiff, Tyler Durden of Zero Hedge, Egon Von Greyerz, Eric Sprott, Alasdair McLeod, Gerald Celente, Jim Rickards etc., etc.,

Brilliant experts, all of them. Who instead of using their brilliance to be rich beyond belief, are marketing newsletters with investment advice.


I'm not trying to convince anyone to invest in anything.
I don't give investment advice.

Huh... I could have sworn I saw you post that you would be happy to work with people interested in getting started buying gold.


A misrepresentation has been made, and I am simply clarifying what it is I am doing.  I AM acquiring my gold from a Stuttgart based e-Commerce company, using a system that rewards me quite well to exchange an increasingly worth-less money-substitute (fiat paper currency) for real money (gold). The gold that I acquire through my account is not a speculative "investment" for trading. It's an account that empowers me to save in gold. I'm not looking to sell my gold, I'm accumulating it in transaction, friendly weights.

So, let's recap: there is a company that is willing to accept "worth-less money-substitute (fiat paper currency)" for "real money (gold)". Read this bullshit again: You are admitting to dealing with a company that exchanges what you admit is worthless for something that has value. What a brilliant business strategy. If only other CEOs would follow this amazing model.

Seriously, you're doing an awesome job promoting this awesome company. I don't even need to try...


My system pays me quite generously 5x's a month. In my system, every Friday, and every 1st of the month, are PAYDAYs, which spin off pure profit (denominated in €) as well as gold.

Yeah, of course it does. Five times a month.


I'm not a teacher, ...and I don't claim to provide financial education, ...but for me it's pretty simple. So simple it's elementary. It boils down to these very simple reasons:

Gold has a 6,000+ year old track record as money that's been all positive
Fiat paper currency has a track record that's been quite negative.
History is littered with what many refer to as "The Fiat Currency Graveyard"

OK, and?


In 1971, one gram of gold would have bought 5 loaves of bread.
In 1971, one dollar (FRN) would have bought 4 loaves of bread.

We've been over this argument before...


Fast forward 43 years later after the link between gold & the FRN was severed:
That same one gram of gold 43 years later, now buys 20 loaves of bread.
That same one US Dollar (FRN) however now only buys less than 1/3 of a loaf of bread.

No, wait stop. We've been over this argument before. *sigh* why are you making me repeat myself?

First, let's start with the obvious: if gold bought 4 loaves of bread in 1971 and buys 20 now, then gold is dramatically overvalued if it's supposed to be relatively stable vis-à–vis value. But let's not worry about that. Let's ask how many 2013 dollars correspond to 1 1971 dollar? According to in2013dollars.com (http://www.in2013dollars.com/1971-dollars-in-2013?amount=1), $1 in 1971 is $5.77 in 2013. How many loaves of bread does a fiver get you? I was at my local grocery store yesterday and I bought bread. I checked the receipt just now and five bucks gets me 6 loaves of bread.

There's plenty of other issues with the "argument" you're making here. We can visit them one by one if you feel so inclined.


As Bernanke prints money, the FRN rapidly loses its purchasing power, as well as it's desirability as a reserve currency.

The decline of the purchasing power of the dollar is an important consideration to be sure, but Bernanke's print presses aren't the real (or sole) issue behind this decline. As for the desirability of the Dollar as a reserve currency, it's still pretty damn desirable, and even if you include other currencies, the dollar is still primus inter pares.

But we're getting ahead of ourselves. Can you discuss this topic in economic terms, with numbers and charts and funny voices?


In my opinion, it's already dead in the water.

Take your opinion and shove it. Nobody gives a shit about your opinion. It's worthless.


While gold's overall purchasing power on the other hand, has largely remained quite constant over the years if not increased in purchasing power. Historically, in times of financial duress, the gold price has always moved to reflect the amount of currency in circulation. Those who refuse or perhaps are incapable of learning the lessons from history, are doomed to repeat it, and the USA seems determined to make the same mistakes made by China, France, Germany, Zimbabwe, ...and a slew of others. As such, I will be saving real money (gold) instead of the money substitute (fiat currency)

You can save whatever you want. It will be interesting to see you trying to trade plastic cards for value when, as you predict, the shit hits the fan.


The spot price of gold has fallen below the production price. That makes it undervalued. Mines are shutting down production. Above ground stores of gold are being drained. Weekly Gold shipments into China alone exceed global production. It's just basic common sense that pretty soon, there's gonna be a shortage.

The spot price of gold was dramatically exaggerated. It's going back down to realistic levels, and it's got a ways to go still.


I don't need your permission, understanding, or approval to make decisions in my own life. I'm acquiring gold, ...and I've chosen to do so using Method #4. You're welcome to choose Methods 1 thru 3 if you like, ...or stay in a fiat paper currency money substitute. It's your choice, ...it's your life.

Of course you don't need my permission. I never told you how to (or not to) spend your money. I told you to stop peddling your bullshit product on these forums and to stop spamming us.


No, a plastic card the size of a credit card is NOT the gold bar, and I never claimed it was. I don't know how you could have possibly gotten that impression, but it is incorrect. The credit card sized plastic card is the certificate of authenticity that surrounds the gold bar. The gold bullion bar is embedded within the certificate of authenticity, and always travels with the certificate, thereby empowering an individual to take physical possession of the gold from out of the vault, without having the same burden of proof that exists for any other asset class of gold.

Again, calling a 1 gram piece of gold a bar is like calling a grain of sand a rock. Even if you could argue that it's technically accurate, it's at best misleading.


:o  Are you serious? Or are you just trying to be difficult? Sometimes it hard to tell with you.

I'm very serious, yes.


The plastic card is plastic.

Why should I pay for the plastic card?


The gold bar is 999.9 pure 24 KT gold produced by a LBMA Good Delivery List refinery.

All one gram of it. How many grams of plastic do I get with my gold?


Let's get real here. By your line of reasoning my manicurist is a shyster because when i get nail polish from her, it comes in a glass bottle, and had a plastic lid... with a brush attached... and therefore it couldn't possibly be genuine nail polish. Come to think of it, the owners of my  local bakery must be a bunch of shysters too. Whenever, I get bread from them, it comes in either a paper or plastic bag, ...sometimes it even has a twist-tie on the end, and occasionally a little plastic thingy. ::)

Nice attempt to salvage the unsalvageable. However, your bakers don't claim that their packaging adds value to the bread, and your manicurist doesn't claim that the glass bottle is better than some other container - which is required for a liquid.


Incorrect again. I really don't care if someone uses the same system I am. What's most important to me, is that I AM using this system.

So why are you here peddling your shitty system then?


 Like I said previously, ...you're welcome to acquire your gold using Methods 1 through 3 if that's your preference. Method #4 simply makes the most sense to me. I also happen to find it to be the most cost-effective as well.



That may be what you're hearing, ...but it's certainly not what I'm saying.
Again, I'm not selling anything.

You just post a phone number under your avatar that points to an information line. And you offer to help people acquire it. But no... you're not selling. You're totally not selling it at all!


When did I ever say they "flock to me for investment advice?"
its more like the other way around. i believe what i said is that they respect and often welcome my opinions, when we have discussions... discussions on a variety of topics.

Yes... billionaires respect and welcome your opinions. Perhaps they even buy your gas pills. After all, they wouldn't keep being billionaires if they kept spending $3.00/gallon, would they? ::)


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: Mr.1derful on December 30, 2013, 05:03:17 PM
In other words, you won't take the bet. Got it.

I'm not the one with something to prove, you are.  I care not what you think of gold.  If I did bet you though, it'd be like taking fiat from a baby.  Or in your case, from a trolling cretin.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: avxo on December 30, 2013, 05:22:14 PM
I'm not the one with something to prove, you are.

You were the one making assertions about gold's superiority...


I care not what you think of gold.

Clearly you do - you are posting about how awesome it is.


If I did bet you though, it'd be like taking fiat from a baby.  Or in your case, from a trolling cretin.

::)

Being called a troll and a cretin by someone like you is a badge of honor.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: Mr.1derful on December 30, 2013, 05:51:32 PM
You were the one making assertions about gold's superiority...


Clearly you do - you are posting about how awesome it is.


::)

Being called a troll and a cretin by someone like you is a badge of honor.

Keep following me, puppy. 


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: avxo on December 30, 2013, 06:58:53 PM
Keep following me, puppy. 

Such a rhetor...  ::)


Title: Re: Gold
Post by: falco on January 02, 2014, 08:11:53 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVjDACqumgA


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: 24KT on January 07, 2014, 02:32:48 PM
Sorry Tu, but NO WAY!!!  There's no way it takes that long.
My personal preference would be in the next 4-5 years, but I don't think well have the luxury of time.
Everywhere I look, all indications are telling me it will be much sooner than that... 2014, possibly 2015, but 2016 at the latest. Quite frankly I'm surprised they managed to keep it going this long.



 :o  I'm not liking this at all, ...but Shadow Stats has always been very accurate.
Keeping my fingers crossed that he's wrong, ...but something tells me he isn't.  :'(


John Williams - Massive Dollar Sell-off in 2014

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQt-FFDM_5k


Title: Re: Gold
Post by: Chadwick The Beta on January 07, 2014, 04:37:59 PM
every year the dollar is going to blow up  ::)

nobody is falling for your stupid cash for gold scheme, judi ...  ffs, go away


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: avxo on January 07, 2014, 05:13:11 PM
:o  I'm not liking this at all, ...but Shadow Stats has always been very accurate.

Yes... very.


Keeping my fingers crossed that he's wrong, ...but something tells me he isn't.  :'(

Are you sure that's what "something" is telling you and it's not just the side-effects of a UTI?


John Williams - Massive Dollar Sell-off in 2014

Good thing you're Canadian and have your own funny money then! Also those plastic doo-dads you've told us so much about!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQt-FFDM_5k

If I'm going to listen to a guy named John Williams, I might as well listen to this instead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzVBqBosf5w


Title: Re: Gold
Post by: 24KT on January 07, 2014, 05:47:39 PM
Those who think I post nonsense are free to ignore my posts.


Title: Re: Gold
Post by: Chadwick The Beta on January 08, 2014, 03:38:07 PM
Those who think I post nonsense are free to ignore my posts.

We who know that you post nonsense are also free to tell you what an annoying, delusional toss-piece you are.  Hope this helps.


Title: Re: Hitler
Post by: 24KT on January 15, 2014, 10:31:11 PM
Sorry Tu, but NO WAY!!!  There's no way it takes that long.
My personal preference would be in the next 4-5 years, but I don't think well have the luxury of time.
Everywhere I look, all indications are telling me it will be much sooner than that... 2014, possibly 2015, but 2016 at the latest. Quite frankly I'm surprised they managed to keep it going this long.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lPXOZYn4qSY

Robert Kiyosaki's latest skype interview On The Spot with Daniella Cambone of KITCO, recorded today.

Robert get's it.

Gold & Silver Are Real Money: Rich Dad's Kiyosaki

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i58GmRiLYyc


Title: Re: Gold - Discussion - Price going up or down?
Post by: 2Thick on March 19, 2014, 11:25:48 AM
"You can't ever be 100% sure of anything." - Steve Schwarzman, self-made multibillionaire founder of Blackstone Investments.

"Every day I assume every position I have is wrong." - Paul Tudor Jones, self-made multibillionaire hedge fund manager.


"For investors as a whole, returns decrease as motion increases." - Buffett

"You don't need to be a rocket scientist. Investing is not a game where the guy with the 160 IQ beats the guy with 130 IQ." - Buffett



Title: Re: Gold - Discussion - Price going up or down?
Post by: 2Thick on May 31, 2014, 11:47:42 AM
Gold ended up being a pretty flat 6 month "trade". Maybe up a hair.  ;D

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=GOLD&insttype=Future&freq=1&show=&time=7 (http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=GOLD&insttype=Future&freq=1&show=&time=7)



Title: Re: Gold - Discussion - Price going up or down?
Post by: tu_holmes on May 31, 2014, 08:37:24 PM
Gold ended up being a pretty flat 6 month "trade". Maybe up a hair.  ;D

http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=GOLD&insttype=Future&freq=1&show=&time=7 (http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=GOLD&insttype=Future&freq=1&show=&time=7)



True and down about 120 bucks on the year... I'm not a stock genius, I got lucky in a couple of things and it's been good for me, but I do know some people who have been deep in the gold market and things are ticking down for them... no doubt.

They made a lot of money, for a few years, but even they wouldn't stay in the gold market right now.