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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: Dos Equis on February 26, 2014, 11:24:45 AM
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Translation: Army to figure out how to lower strength and fitness standards so more females can work in combat arms jobs.
Army study to determine how women will be deemed fit to join the front lines
Published February 26, 2014
Associated Press
FORT STEWART, GA. – Standing just over 5 feet, Army Spc. Karen Arvizu is barely a foot taller than the anti-tank missile she carries in both arms and loads into an armored vehicle. She stands on her tip-toes to wrestle open the 300-pound top hatch.
"I have to step on the seat to get the missile into the launcher," said Arvizu, a 24-year-old soldier from Los Angeles. "It's half my body weight."
Arvizu typically drives Humvees or transport trucks at Fort Stewart in Georgia, but for the past three weeks, she and 59 other women soldiers have been getting a taste of what it takes to serve in combat. By spending their days lifting 65-pound missiles and .50-caliber machine guns, all while wearing 70 pounds of body armor, they're helping make history as part of an Army study that will determine how all soldiers — including women, for the first time — will be deemed fit to join the front lines.
The Pentagon ordered last year that women must have the same opportunities to serve in combat jobs as men, with thousands of positions slated to open to both genders in 2016. And while an Army survey shows only a small fraction of women say they want to move into combat jobs, it also revealed soldiers from both genders are nervous about the change.
With roughly one in five Army positions considered combat-related, commanders are turning to science to find a unisex standard to judge which soldiers physically have the right stuff to fight wars.
Testing at Fort Stewart and other U.S. bases is breaking away from the Army's longtime standards for physical fitness — pushups, sit-ups and 2-mile runs — to focus instead on battlefield tasks, such as dragging a wounded comrade to safety or installing and removing the heavy barrel of the 25 mm gun mounted on Bradley vehicles.
David Brinkley, deputy chief of staff for operations at the Army's Training and Doctrine Command at Fort Eustis in Virginia, said some people think the Army is coming up with unrealistic requirements while others believe standards will be lower to let women fight on the front lines.
"We intend to do neither. That's why we based this on the actual thing you have to do," he said.
At Fort Stewart, a volunteer group of soldiers — 100 men and 60 women — are spending a month drilling on the most physically challenging tasks demanded of infantrymen, cavalry scouts, mortar launchers and tank crews. In March, scientists from the Army's Research Institute for Environmental Medicine will have the troops perform those tasks while wearing heart rate monitors, masks that monitor oxygen intake and other equipment to study the effects of their physical exertion.
One of the volunteers, Spc. Artrice Scott, said she has no intention of trading in her job as an Army cook to join an infantry platoon or an armor unit. But she sees the testing as a great opportunity to lead the way for women in the U.S. military.
"The heaviest thing we lift in the kitchen is boxes of frozen chicken, 45 pounds," said Scott, 29, of Mobile, Ala. "And you don't have to lift those over your head."
During a training session Tuesday, Scott shaved 45 seconds off her previous best time carrying two anti-tank missiles into a Bradley armored vehicle and loading them into the turret.
Army commanders say there are no doubts that women have the mental and technical abilities needed. Only their ability to perform the most arduous physical tasks has been questioned.
The survey released Tuesday found there were nagging stereotypes. Male soldiers fretted that their unit's readiness will be degraded because of what they term "women issues," such as pregnancy and menstrual cycles. Or they worried that women incapable of the physical demands would be brought in anyway.
However, the survey also showed that only about 8 percent of Army women said they wanted combat jobs. Brinkley said such limited interest also is in line with what other countries, such as Norway, have seen as they integrated women into combat roles.
Maj. Gen. Mike Murray, commanding general at Fort Stewart, watched Tuesday as coed groups of soldiers set up heavy 120 mm mortars on a practice field. An officer with 32 years of infantry experience, Murray said it's time to open combat jobs to women and "this is going to get studied to death" in order for the Army to prove to naysayers that women soldiers are physically capable. The volunteer group at Fort Stewart includes a mix of combat veterans and newcomers, but it didn't take long for the group to gel after some initial awkwardness.
"It was almost like a high school dance where you had the guys over here and the girls over there," Murray said. "A week later, it was amazing how fast teams form."
Giving soldiers a month to prepare meant women who have never been trained to scale a 6-foot wall or pull a casualty from a tank have had time to learn the proper techniques before they are tested for real next month.
Staff Sgt. Terry Kemp, a cavalry scout who's helping train the Fort Stewart volunteers, said female soldiers started to catch up with their male counterparts after two weeks of training. Missile toting drills that initially took the men seven minutes were taking women 12 minutes to complete, he said. But by week three, men and women had trimmed their times to about four minutes.
Those who still insist women can't perform as well as men in combat "can beat their chests about it all day," said Kemp, a veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan. "But eventually it's going to happen."
Exactly what sort of fitness tests or standards will come out of the Army's study remains to be seen. There are no current fitness requirements for serving in combat positions beyond the Army's standard physical fitness test for all soldiers — which includes pushups, situps and a 2-mile run and grades men and women on different scales.
Brinkley said the Army took a lesson from fire departments by not focusing on soldier's ability to perform pushups or pullups, which favor men because they test upper body strength. He said officials realize women do physical tasks differently, using more core strength and legs. By focusing on tasks rather than exercises, Army officials hope to eliminate gender bias from their study.
Taking a break from toting anti-tank missiles at Fort Stewart, Arvizu said she found the heavy lifting to be humbling. And though she felt encouraged by her male colleagues, she had no desire to give up driving a truck and join a combat unit.
"It's not that I came, I saw and conquered," she said. "But I came, I saw and I did my best."
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/02/26/army-study-giving-women-taste-combat-tasks/?intcmp=latestnews
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Who is behind this relentless push to put women in front line combat positions, and re-working special forces standards until they can get women to pass?? Who is pushing this so hard??? It flies in the face of nature as well as the course of human history...and therefore will weaken our frontline forces. All just for political correctness.
I just dont understand this shit.
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You would be shocked how PC the military is..even the Marines. Its so bad.....
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Who is behind this relentless push to put women in front line combat positions, and re-working special forces standards until they can get women to pass?? Who is pushing this so hard??? It flies in the face of nature as well as the course of human history...and therefore will weaken our frontline forces. All just for political correctness.
I just dont understand this shit.
its actually mostly womens rights groups that arent military related.... but they have to do it or the political pressure from the US politicians will threaten their funding because theyre 'sexist'. 99% of military females dont want to be in combat, and they understand they simply arent physically built for it.
Hell, just read the accounts of the women that have had to run around with grunts, they feel women have no place in an infantry unit.
this is a bunch of dumb bitches in the states screaming idealistic nonsense at the too of their lungs and not listening to the actual women who have any clue of what actually goes on. Thess bitches are in denial, they refuse to accept that dact that women are selfish physically differerent from men and simply arent capable of taming the same physical stresses. Not even getting into the mental and emotional stresses, which I think woumd hit them particularly hard, considering their tendancy to put emotion in front of logic and seeing people shredded and torn asunder would probably be even harder in them than it is on men
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Its always the agenda...and somewhere somebody makes a living pushing this shit. Try being a female tanker. I've kicked dudes off my track because they couldn't load rounds fast enough....turns out push-ups don't make u strong.
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Its always the agenda...and somewhere somebody makes a living pushing this shit. Try being a female tanker. I've kicked dudes off my track because they couldn't load rounds fast enough....turns out push-ups don't make u strong.
haha. I remember the little 100 lb former track star dudes knocking out 50 pulluos thinking they were badasses, and then laughing as i had to hump him and his rifle up a hill while someone else humped his pack.... fucking little dudes. Got humble real quick when they couldnt keep uo with us bigger dudes doing shit that actually mattered.
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We'd had a PT test at the squad leaders course and this little dude blew right by me as I huffed and puffed for my 20Min 3 miles..sounding like an asthmatic rhino. 5 days later we're doing a 15 miler...hot as balls...in sugar sand and this dude was dying. I had to carry his ruck for about 5 miles and his rifle for atleast 2. So ruck on the front...ruck on the back...cursing this assbag the whole way. Its hard as hell to go into another world while humping with a ruck in your face...I just kept mumbling about what a pussy he was. The hate got me through.
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Thess bitches are in denial, they refuse to accept that dact that women are selfish physically differerent from men and simply arent capable of taming the same physical stresses. Not even getting into the mental and emotional stresses, which I think woumd hit them particularly hard, considering their tendancy to put emotion in front of logic and seeing people shredded and torn asunder would probably be even harder in them than it is on men
In general, I agree with you about the physical differences (though the percentage of women who can handle the physical part of most combat roles is probably close to the percentage who'd even want to do it).
I don't agree about women being weaker mentally, though. There are lots of women who do fine in civilian hospital ER's, aren't there? Don't they deal with some pretty horrible shit there? (I, for one, would not be able to hack that kind of shit without some fundamental and unwanted change to my personality taking place, I'll tell you that.) Another thing that women deal with that seems to contradict your suggestion that they'd suffer more than men under stressful circumstances is the whole childbirth thing. (Thank god I'm a man, btw.)
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In general, I agree with you about the physical differences (though the percentage of women who can handle the physical part of most combat roles is probably close to the percentage who'd even want to do it).
I don't agree about women being weaker mentally, though. There are lots of women who do fine in civilian hospital ER's, aren't there? Don't they deal with some pretty horrible shit there? (I, for one, would not be able to hack that kind of shit without some fundamental and unwanted change to my personality taking place, I'll tell you that.) Another thing that women deal with that seems to contradict your suggestion that they'd suffer more than men under stressful circumstances is the whole childbirth thing. (Thank god I'm a man, btw.)
I never said weaker, mentally... at all. Different. People today think different = weaker. Women think much more with emotion, when a dude is getting his limbs torn off, is she going to make the hard decision to let him die if it's going to kill her and 3 others to save him? Moreover, it's been proven that men will throw themselves into the line of fire to save a woman where they would have made the hard decision if it was a man.
And childbirth.. have you ever been present during childbirth? They have no choice. And trust me, they scream, act like children, my wife in particular ran around the room screaming, crying, and throwing herself on the floor. She didn't have an option.
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it sickens me..they dont want equal rights..they want special treatment..
if they can pass the exact same requirement as a man(they cant) then let them in..but they should be aware of what happen if they are captured..snipers will no longer be the prized capture for our enemies...and the SERE training for females should reflect that!
this isnt a job as a lawyer or doctor...this is where the the metal meets the meat..they better be really sure they want this or they are gonna get a lot of people killed..
bench
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it sickens me..they dont want equal rights..they want special treatment..
if they can pass the exact same requirement as a man(they cant) then let them in..but they should be aware of what happen if they are captured..snipers will no longer be the prized capture for our enemies...and the SERE training for females should reflect that!
this isnt a job as a lawyer or doctor...this is where the the metal meets the meat..they better be really sure they want this or they are gonna get a lot of people killed..
bench
Womens rights activists have zero idea what the rest of the world is like... they don't understand that war isn't like writing their term papers on male oppression... they need to go to Saudi Arabia for a week before they start spouting off.
They have ZERO idea how savage the world is.
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Womens rights activists have zero idea what the rest of the world is like... they don't understand that war isn't like writing their term papers on male oppression... they need to go to Saudi Arabia for a week before they start spouting off.
They have ZERO idea how savage the world is.
let them figure it out...and watch good men die having to save/rescue them
bench
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I never said weaker, mentally... at all. Different. People today think different = weaker. Women think much more with emotion, when a dude is getting his limbs torn off, is she going to make the hard decision to let him die if it's going to kill her and 3 others to save him? Moreover, it's been proven that men will throw themselves into the line of fire to save a woman where they would have made the hard decision if it was a man.
And childbirth.. have you ever been present during childbirth? They have no choice. And trust me, they scream, act like children, my wife in particular ran around the room screaming, crying, and throwing herself on the floor. She didn't have an option.
So because you think women think "differently" they'd be mentally less well able to do the job? A woman couldn't be cold-blooded enough, is that what you're really saying? That sounds like poppycock. If you have a of link to some sort of science-based research that supports these claims, I'd like to see it.
It's possible that women in general are more likely to make decisions based on emotions but you're saying all women regardless of training can be expected to do that? Hell no.
Your statement about men not being able to do their job properly around women smacks of the same argument once used to justify not having blacks serve in the same units as whites. Does anyone still believe that one? You're selling male soldiers short here, imo. When the shit hits the fan, don't soldiers just want to be sure the next soldier (man/woman/homo) can do the job? That'd be my concern.
And women don't have a choice as to whether to give birth or not? Since when? After all, you don't think what causes childbirth is some mystery to them, do you? So to not give women credit for being committed and tough enough to give birth, especially when it's not their first child (so they're under no illusions about what's in store for them) seems ignorant, especially since women have been having kids since long before procedures like c-sections or epidurals were around to make the experience less painful.
Maybe you've never personally known any tough, intelligent, and competent women but you're selling them short, for sure.
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So because you think women think "differently" they'd be mentally less well able to do the job? A woman couldn't be cold-blooded enough, is that what you're really saying? That sounds like poppycock. If you have a of link to some sort of science-based research that supports these claims, I'd like to see it.
It's possible that women in general are more likely to make decisions based on emotions but you're saying all women regardless of training can be expected to do that? Hell no.
Your statement about men not being able to do their job properly around women smacks of the same argument once used to justify not having blacks serve in the same units as whites. Does anyone still believe that one? You're selling male soldiers short here, imo. When the shit hits the fan, don't soldiers just want to be sure the next soldier (man/woman/homo) can do the job? That'd be my concern.
And women don't have a choice as to whether to give birth or not? Since when? After all, you don't think what causes childbirth is some mystery to them, do you? So to not give women credit for being committed and tough enough to give birth, especially when it's not their first child (so they're under no illusions about what's in store for them) seems ignorant, especially since women have been having kids since long before procedures like c-sections or epidurals were around to make the experience less painful.
Maybe you've never personally known any tough, intelligent, and competent women but you're selling them short, for sure.
not at all, ive known a lot of tough military women, who actually ran better pfts thab I did.
and not one of them felt they could/should be in combat roles, amd those are the reasons they gave me. Dead serious.
and fyi, I wasnt saying that NO women could do it... im saying I dont believe most women would not be able to do it. The males throwing themselvss into harms say for women more than men was actually a scientific study, btwn
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I'll say it..by and large...no they can't. They aren't physically built to withstand the pounding during ruck matches. Women in basic training suffer a lot of pelvic injuries from the kinds of things they will be required to do on almost a weekly basis in Infantry units. Mentally...you will be lucky to fill out a squad of mentally tough females all in the same unit or in numbers to make the libs happy about diversity. This is doomed. This is not blacks or gays or all that bullshit...this is genetics. Do not post some crossfit superwomen as an example....they aren't joining the military in record numbers.
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Do not post some crossfit superwomen as an example....they aren't joining the military in record numbers.
To me, this is your most compelling argument.
Basically, you are saying that any woman competent and tough enough to fulfill a combat role in today's army is nowhere near dumb enough to volunteer to do it.
I'll buy that. ;D
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it sickens me..they dont want equal rights..they want special treatment..
if they can pass the exact same requirement as a man(they cant) then let them in..but they should be aware of what happen if they are captured..snipers will no longer be the prized capture for our enemies...and the SERE training for females should reflect that!
this isnt a job as a lawyer or doctor...this is where the the metal meets the meat..they better be really sure they want this or they are gonna get a lot of people killed..
bench
Exactly. Military is as serious as it gets...PC bullshit has absolutely no place there.
These hardcore feminist activist types are a danger to society
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The pool is already small....and what you're going to get thousands of them to join...ok how about 250 superwomen to join across all of SOCOM...so some to the Rangers, some to the SEALs...that's just the ones you can enlist for. Then they all have to get through bootcamp/basic training...A school/infantry school..minibuds/Rip & Rope (Ranger Indoc/pre ranger) and then Buds and Ranger school. You would have to have a big pool just to then weed out ones who can't do it mentally , ones who get injured, ones who are incompetent, ones who change their minds, once who have a family crisis that prevents completion, ones who get peer eval'ed out. Take for instance RIP and ROPE....the are prer qual courses for Ranger school and induction into the Ranger Regiment. During my RIP..about 15 dudes..we lost 2 to PT tests and 2 to inuries. 1 other guy decided he's rather booze instead of getingt up and walking for miles for no real reason. That's 5....in an armor school class of 100 with 15 Ranger wannabe's. During ROPE...my buddy had 2 guys get killed on a helo insertion. A couple of more broke their backs and he blew out an ankle. This is all before you get to go do 9 weeks of no food..no cold weather gear...no sleep.
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The pool is already small....and what you're going to get thousands of them to join...ok how about 250 superwomen to join across all of SOCOM...so some to the Rangers, some to the SEALs...that's just the ones you can enlist for. Then they all have to get through bootcamp/basic training...A school/infantry school..minibuds/Rip & Rope (Ranger Indoc/pre ranger) and then Buds and Ranger school. You would have to have a big pool just to then weed out ones who can't do it mentally , ones who get injured, ones who are incompetent, ones who change their minds, once who have a family crisis that prevents completion, ones who get peer eval'ed out. Take for instance RIP and ROPE....the are prer qual courses for Ranger school and induction into the Ranger Regiment. During my RIP..about 15 dudes..we lost 2 to PT tests and 2 to inuries. 1 other guy decided he's rather booze instead of getingt up and walking for miles for no real reason. That's 5....in an armor school class of 100 with 15 Ranger wannabe's. During ROPE...my buddy had 2 guys get killed on a helo insertion. A couple of more broke their backs and he blew out an ankle. This is all before you get to go do 9 weeks of no food..no cold weather gear...no sleep.
Forgive my ignorance (I was a 98G Russian with a strategic assignment - a real job, haha - during my tour so I know very little about the tactical folks), but weren't we talking about (women in) combat roles in general?
Do all soldiers in combat roles have to do go through all the training you've described? I don't see what the big deal is. Just make the women who want to do that crap have to pass the same tests as the men and let the test results dictate who does what job. If some USA-equivalent to Brazil's she-beast Cyborg comes along and shows she can do the job, fuck it, let her do it, I say.
(If you know of some study that shows that the average combat soldier will risk his life unnecessarily for a chick like Cyborg, then I'd say that dude has been in the field too long. lol)
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A woman who enlists for a combat arms job will have to go to Infantry school or the basic armor course. If she goes to Bragg or Campbell she'll go to airborne and air assault...which women do all the time. An armor course won't be as demanding at first...but life in a tank is hard and everything is heavy...everything. A chick who goes Army Infantry will go to Benning and through basic and infantry school. I don't know what Army infantry school is like as I did my Infantry school in the Marines..it sucked. Ranger School was worse but the issue is not the superchick...its having enough women to fill an Infantry platoon so there's not two robochicks per company or 5 in an Infantry battalion. That pool is far to small to make the program work.
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Forgive my ignorance (I was a 98G Russian with a strategic assignment - a real job, haha - during my tour so I know very little about the tactical folks), but weren't we talking about (women in) combat roles in general?
Do all soldiers in combat roles have to do go through all the training you've described? I don't see what the big deal is. Just make the women who want to do that crap have to pass the same tests as the men and let the test results dictate who does what job. If some USA-equivalent to Brazil's she-beast Cyborg comes along and shows she can do the job, fuck it, let her do it, I say.
(If you know of some study that shows that the average combat soldier will risk his life unnecessarily for a chick like Cyborg, then I'd say that dude has been in the field too long. lol)
thats the issue - they'll change the standards because 99% of women cant pass them. I have zero problem with a psycho cyborg type chick - but even then their bodies break down much faster than men do, its genetics.
and the issue is that the women's rights grouos wont be happy until a large percentage of women are passing, which means changing the standards, because theyre 'unfair'
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A woman who enlists for a combat arms job will have to go to Infantry school or the basic armor course. If she goes to Bragg or Campbell she'll go to airborne and air assault...which women do all the time. An armor course won't be as demanding at first...but life in a tank is hard and everything is heavy...everything. A chick who goes Army Infantry will go to Benning and through basic and infantry school. I don't know what Army infantry school is like as I did my Infantry school in the Marines..it sucked. Ranger School was worse but the issue is not the superchick...its having enough women to fill an Infantry platoon so there's not two robochicks per company or 5 in an Infantry battalion. That pool is far to small to make the program work.
SOI east or west? I was at SOI west, it sucked but it was fun. Range runs sucked.
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thats the issue - they'll change the standards because 99% of women cant pass them. I have zero problem with a psycho cyborg type chick - but even then their bodies break down much faster than men do, its genetics.
and the issue is that the women's rights grouos wont be happy until a large percentage of women are passing, which means changing the standards, because theyre 'unfair'
Ah, well then I agree with you guys then -- I don't agree with changing the standards unless they're super irrelevant as in "combat soldier must have testes" (which would not disqualify Cyborg, apparently).
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SOI east or west? I was at SOI west, it sucked but it was fun. Range runs sucked.
You can have your fucking mountains...I suffered in the swamps ;D. I would have preferred the mountains.
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thats the issue - they'll change the standards because 99% of women cant pass them. I have zero problem with a psycho cyborg type chick - but even then their bodies break down much faster than men do, its genetics.
and the issue is that the women's rights grouos wont be happy until a large percentage of women are passing, which means changing the standards, because theyre 'unfair'
Exactly
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Ah, well then I agree with you guys then -- I don't agree with changing the standards unless they're super irrelevant as in "combat soldier must have testes" (which would not disqualify Cyborg, apparently).
;D
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I was on a course once with women in my section and we ended up having to carry most of the the heavy section equipment after they moaned that it was too heavy for them. One of the chicks did appalling on her test appointment and when told she had failed started to cry and complain that she was "on". Low and behold, the DS then decided that his decision had been wrong and she had in fact passed.
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It has happened just as it was predicted last year on this very board.
The wussification of America continues.
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Ah, well then I agree with you guys then -- I don't agree with changing the standards unless they're super irrelevant as in "combat soldier must have testes" (which would not disqualify Cyborg, apparently).
Hahaha, so fucking true.
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One time in the field some females complained about the condition of porta potties, so someone made a command decision to block off half of the porta potties for female use only. Men outnumbered women by about 10 to 1. Made the "men's" porta potties even more disgusting because it more than doubled their use. So much for equal treatment.
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One time in the field some females complained about the condition of porta potties, so someone made a command decision to block off half of the porta potties for female use only. Men outnumbered women by about 10 to 1. Made the "men's" porta potties even more disgusting because it more than doubled their use. So much for equal treatment.
must have been an officer. lol
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must have been an officer. lol
...who was too heavy/out-of-shape to do her thing while squatting asian-style.
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One time in the field some females complained about the condition of porta potties, so someone made a command decision to block off half of the porta potties for female use only. Men outnumbered women by about 10 to 1. Made the "men's" porta potties even more disgusting because it more than doubled their use. So much for equal treatment.
they dont want equal, they sang special.
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must have been an officer. lol
No doubt.
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they dont want equal, they sang special.
Definitely true for some, although there are some pretty tough ones.
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take gender out of it.
and raise the physical standards by 10%.
Kick out every man OR woman that can't reach those standards. It's that simple.
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If they went gender neutral and then raised the standards....you'd loose a lot of chicks.
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If they went gender neutral and then raised the standards....you'd loose a lot of chicks.
And men.
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No Women Pass Army Ranger School, Three Invited to Start Over
(http://images.military.com/media/slideshows/first-women-start-army-ranger-school/cadets-012.jpg)
U.S. Army Soldiers conduct combatives training during the Ranger Course on Ft. Benning, GA., April 20, 2015. Soldiers attend Ranger school to learn additional leadership and small unit technical skills. (U.S. Army/Pfc. Antonio Lewis/Released)
Military.com May 30, 2015 | by Matthew Cox
It has been a hard road for women in Army Ranger School. All of the female volunteers have failed on their second attempt to pass the first phase of the traditionally, all-male infantry course, the Army announced Friday night.
The Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade held its first co-ed course of Army Ranger School on April 20 at Fort Benning, Georgia. Nineteen women and 380 men were pre-screened for the combat training course.
Three of the women failed to pass the Ranger Physical Fitness Assessment, a requirement to enter Ranger School. Eight out of 16 female soldiers completed the Ranger Assessment Phase, or RAP week, which consists of day and night land navigation, obstacle courses, skill tests and a 12-mile road march with a rifle, fighting load vest and rucksack weighing approximately 47 pounds.
But the remaining eight females weren't able to complete the first phase and advance to the second phase of the course. Instead, they were allowed to repeat the Darby Phase along with 101 male candidates.
Fort Benning officials announced May 29 that none of the eight passed the Darby Phase on their second attempt. Three of those females, along with five males, have been invited to start over on day one of the grueling course.
"This is normal course procedures and is used when students struggle with one aspect of the course and excel at others," according to the press release.
The next Ranger School class begins on Sunday, June 21, 2015.
The announcement comes one day after Army Chief of Staff Gen. Ray Odierno said that the Army will likely run a couple more pilots where females go through Ranger School.
Senior Army leaders recently decided to allow females to attend the historically male-only, infantry course. The effort is a result of former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta's January 2013 directive that all services open combat-arms roles to women that so far have been reserved for men. The services have until 2016 to decide how to execute this.
According to the release, 29 students, including five females, failed to meet the standards of the Darby Phase of Ranger School and will be dropped from the course.
"For a variety of reasons, these students were unsuccessful at meeting the standard -- some for leading their graded patrols, some for a poor evaluation of their teamwork from their peers, some for accumulating too many negative spot reports, and some for a combination of all three," the release states. "However, the vast majority who are being dropped from the course were unable to successfully lead a patrol. All students received multiple opportunities to lead a patrol as a squad leader or team leader."
The Darby Phase of Ranger School is 15 days of intensive squad training and operations in a field environment at Fort Benning.
The phase consists of a day for basic airborne refresher and sustained airborne training, as well as a day for an airborne operation for those Ranger students who are airborne qualified; a day for the Darby Queen, an advanced obstacle course; a day of techniques training; two days of cadre assisted patrols; three days of student led patrols; one day of retraining; three days of student led patrols; and two administrative days where the students are counseled on their performance during the phase.
Col. David G. Fivecoat, commander of the Airborne and Ranger Training Brigade, and Command Sgt. Major Curt Arnold addressed the Ranger students this week, Fivecoat said.
"The group that was unsuccessful was, of course, disappointed in their performance," Fivecoat said. "However, each Ranger student, whether successful or unsuccessful, learned more about themselves, leadership, and small unit tactics, and returns to the Army a better trained soldier and leader."
http://www.military.com/daily-guy-school-three-invited-to-start-over.html?ESRC=army-a.nl
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Respect.
History made: Army Ranger School to graduate its first female students ever
By Dan Lamothe
August 17, 2015
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A female Ranger student shares a laugh with fellow soldiers while waiting for a C-130 plane ride Thursday, Aug. 6, ahead of an airborne jump. (Photo by Dan Lamothe/ The Washington Post)
Two female soldiers will graduate from the Army’s grueling Ranger School on Friday, becoming the first women to ever complete what is considered one of the U.S. military’s most difficult and premier courses to develop elite fighters and leaders, a senior Army official said.
The accomplishment marks a major breakthrough for women in the armed services at a time when each of the military branches is required to examine how to integrate women into jobs like infantryman in which they have never been allowed to serve. But even as the two new female graduates will be the first women allowed to wear the prestigious Ranger Tab on their uniforms, they still are not allowed to try out for the elite 75th Ranger Regiment, a Special Operations force that remains closed to women and has its own separate, exhausting requirements and training.
The women will receive the Ranger Tab alongside dozens of male service members in a ceremony at Fort Benning, Ga., the home of Ranger School’s headquarters, a senior Army official said Monday night. The official spoke on condition of anonymity while the Army finalized a news release.
The event is expected to draw not only family and friends, but hundreds of well-wishers and media from across the country. The female graduates are expected to speak to the media for the first time Thursday alongside instructors and other soldiers at Ranger School.
The women have not been identified by the Army, but both are officers and graduates of the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, N.Y., Army officials said. The female graduates started Ranger School on April 20 alongside 380 men and 17 other female soldiers in the first class to ever include women. The female soldiers were allowed into Ranger School as part of the Army’s ongoing assessment of how to better integrate women.
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A female Ranger student tackles rappel training during the second phase of Ranger School at Camp Frank D. Merrill in northern Georgia on July 12. (Photo by Staff Sgt. Scott Brooks/ U.S. Army)
Some skeptics, especially in the military, have questioned whether the women were given an easier path to graduation. But senior Army officials have insisted that is not the case, and opened Ranger School to media for a few days during each phase to underscore the point and allow Ranger instructors and others involved in their evaluation to speak.
The course includes three phases: The Darby Phase at Fort Benning, the Mountain Phase in northern Georgia’s Chattahoochee National Forest and the Florida Phase on and around Eglin Air Force Base on the Florida Panhandle. About 4,000 students attempt Ranger School each year, with some 1,600 — 40 percent — graduating. They include some service members who serve in the Ranger Regiment, but also many others who serve in jobs ranging from military police to helicopter pilot.
The course is 61 days for students who complete each phase on the first try. But only a minority do so. In the April class, for example, 37 of the 380 male students — about 10 percent — advanced directly through training, graduating earlier this summer. The remainder of the students — including all of the women — have struggled more than that.
The nineteen female students were whittled to eight in April during an initial assessment that includes everything from chin-ups to push-ups to an exhausting 12-mile road march through Fort Benning’s hills while carrying a full combat load. All eight women then failed the first Darby Phase twice, and only three were allowed to try Ranger School again. They did so as a “Day 1 recycle,” an option that is offered on occasion to both men and women who excel in some aspects of Ranger School, but fall short in something specific that can be improved.
Two of the three women left then passed through the Mountain Phase on the first try in July, and completed the 17-day Florida Phase over the weekend. The third woman was held back in the Mountain Phase last month; her status was not immediately clear Monday night.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/guy-school/
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Navy SEALs to open to women, top admiral says
By David Larter & Meghann Myers, Staff writers
August 18, 2015
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(Photo: U.S. Southern Command)
The Navy is planning to open its elite SEAL teams to women who can pass the grueling training regimen, the service's top officer said Tuesday in an exclusive interview.
Adm. Jon Greenert said he and the head of Naval Special Warfare Command, Rear Adm. Brian Losey, believe that if women can pass the legendary six-month Basic Underwater Demolition/SEAL training, they should be allowed to serve.
"Why shouldn't anybody who can meet these [standards] be accepted? And the answer is, there is no reason," Greenert said Tuesday in an exclusive interview with Navy Times' sister publication Defense News. "So we're on a track to say, 'Hey look, anybody who can meet the gender non-specific standards, then you can become a SEAL.'"
The push to integrate the storied SEAL brotherhood is coming on the heels of a comprehensive review led by Losey, the head of Naval Special Warfare Command, that recommended women be allowed under the same exacting standards required of male candidates. The Army and Air Force are also moving to open all combat jobs to women, according to officials who spoke to the Associated Press. It's believed the Marine Corps may seek to keep its ground combat jobs, including the infantry, male-only.
The move to integrate the military's most storied commando units comes the day after news broke that two women had passed the Army's arduous Ranger course. Nineteen women began the course, which has about a 45 percent passing rate.
The Navy has said it is on track to open all ratings to women by next year, but this is the first indication that the SEALs are leaning toward accepting candidates. Greenert didn't specify a timeline for allowing women candidates into BUD/S training.
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In an interview Tuesday, Adm. Jon Greenert said the Navy was "on a track to say, 'Hey look, anybody who can meet the gender non-specific standards, then you can become a SEAL.'" (Photo: Lars Schwetje/Staff)
Marine Corps Forces Special Operations Command is also conducting a review of its standards with an eye to including women, according MARSOC head Maj. Gen. Joseph Osterman.
The SEALs would be the latest, and the last, of the traditionally male-only branches to open to women during Mabus' tenure.
In 2011, the first female officers reported to ballistic missile submarines, and early this year several more reported to Virginia-class attack subs. Enlisted women are on track to join them next year and the service is already recruiting enlisted women off the streets to enter submarine ratings.
And in 2012, riverine training opened to women, making way for the go-ahead to assign them to billets and deploy them last year.
It's not clear how many women will attempt to join the SEALs when it opens to them. The percentage of women in expeditionary specialties, like Seabees and Navy divers, are exceedingly low.
Out of an end strength of 1,153, there are only seven female Navy divers — just .61 percent of the force. And there are only 10 women in the Explosive Ordnance Disposal community of the 1,094 total enlisted sailors.
EOD officers fill billets at EOD and fleet diver commands — billets that have also been open to women for decades — but less than 3 percent of those billets are held by women.
http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2015/08/18/women-seals-greenert-losey-buds/31943243/
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Report finds female Marines cannot meet some standards for special forces
By Paul Alster
Published October 07, 2015
FoxNews.com
A report conducted by the U.S. Marine Corps on integrating women into all military units concluded that even the top female troops likely cannot cut it in the special forces -- even though they typically have better disciplinary records and perform better at problem solving.
A copy of the report, titled “United States Marine Corps Assessment of Women in Service Assignments,” was obtained by FoxNews.com. The 37-page document was prepared by a brigadier general for the USMC commandant ahead of the Jan. 1, 2016, deadline for implementation of full gender equality in every area of the military.
“The data in this report indicates that even striking what appears to be a balance for setting standards will likely introduce some level of risk across all of these factors,” the report by Brigadier Gen. George Smith concludes. “The recommendation to open or to request such an exception to policy for any MOS [Military Occupational Specialty] or unit will depend on the Marine Corps’ tolerance for the level of risk that such a change would impose.”
“The data in this report indicates that even striking what appears to be a balance for setting standards will likely introduce some level of risk across all of these factors.”
- Report by US Marines on integrating women into elite forces
The report is likely to fuel the rift between advocates of full integration, even in the military’s special forces units, and many present and former service personnel who have questioned the suitability of women to serve as absolute equals in the most elite combat units. Former Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta in 2013 ordered the Armed Services and U.S. Special Operations Command to integrate female service members into the remaining closed occupational specialties and units throughout the Department of Defense.
While highlighting the achievements of many outstanding female Marines, the report finds that overall elite female troops do not reach the same physical standards as their male counterparts. Smith notes that more than 400 women have received Combat Action Ribbons for service in Iraq and Afghanistan.
“There is no more compelling evidence that our female Marines have served very capably and courageously in combat and have distinguished themselves in non-linear, extremely complex operating environments,” the report states. “However, none of those rewards reflected a female Marine having to “locate, close with and destroy the enemy” in deliberate offensive combat operations. Rather, these actions were all in response to enemy action in the form of IED strikes, enemy attacks on convoys or bases or attacks on female Marines serving in the Lioness Program or on Female Engagement Teams.”
The report does note that female service members have better overall disciplinary records than men, and highlights that “in a decision-making study that we ran in which all male and integrated groups attempted to solve challenging field problems [that involved] varying levels of both physical and cognitive difficulty… the female integrated teams (with one female and three or four males) performed as well or better than the all-male teams.”
But “there were numerous indications of lower performance levels from combat arms females or female-integrated groups,” the report states.
The Marines report echoes the findings of the 1992 Presidential Commission on the Assignment of Women in the Armed Forces.
“Winning in war is often only a matter of inches, and unnecessary distraction or any dilution of the combat effectiveness puts the mission and lives in jeopardy,” that report stated. “Risking the lives of a military unit in combat to provide career opportunities or accommodate the personal desires or interests of an individual, or group of individuals, is more than bad military judgment. It is morally wrong.”
However, U.S. Navy Secretary Ray Mabus told NPR that studies showing women cannot keep up with men in certain areas could be flawed.
“It started out with a fairly large component of the men thinking this is not a good idea and women will never be able to do this,” he said. “When you start out with that mindset you're almost presupposing the outcome.”
One former U.S. Marine told FoxNews.com on condition of anonymity that full integration in all units could hurt morale if it is perceived as being done for political correctness and not merit.
“The Marines are being asked to treat female soldiers as absolute equals – in possibly life-threatening situations – even when every other measure has long ago proven that such physical equality between males and females does not exist,” he said.
Israel, which has long integrated women into its military, has reached similar conclusions regarding the most elite units, according to Lt. Col. Yuval Heled, the Israel Defence Force’s top military physiologist.
“Women in Israel and the U.S. do very good field operations,” Heled said. “But I would say that in the front line, with the potential of engaging in close combat, I would still recommend leaving things as they are.”
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/10/07/report-finds-female-marines-cannot-meet-some-standards-for-special-forces/?intcmp=hpbt1
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Military leaders: Register women for draft
By Leo Shane III, Military Times
February 2, 2016
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Chief of Staff of the Army Mark Milley
(Photo: Daniel Woolfolk/Staff)
The Army and Marine Corps' top uniformed leaders both backed making women register for the draft as all combat roles are opened to them in coming months, a sweeping social change that could complicate the military’s gender integration plans.
Both services, along with the Navy, have begun work to open all military jobs to any service member after a decision by Defense Secretary Ash Carter in December to lift all gender-based restrictions on combat and infantry roles.
On Tuesday, Army Chief of Staff Gen. Mark Milley and Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Robert Neller told senators during a Capitol Hill hearing that full integration of those jobs will likely take a few years, to overcome logistical and cultural issues.
One of those complications will be how to handle the Selective Service System, which requires all men ages 18 to 26 to register for possible involuntary military service.
Women have always been exempt, and past legal challenges have pointed to the battlefield restrictions placed on them. With that reasoning moot, lawmakers will need to determine what becomes of the system.
Navy Secretary Ray Mabus Jr. said there needs to be “a national debate” over what the changes mean, balancing social concerns over the idea of drafting women with the reality of national security and military readiness.
But the uniform leaders were more blunt in their assessment.
“It's my personal view in light of integration that every American physically qualified should register for the draft,” Neller said. Milley echoed those remarks, saying “all eligible men and women” should be required to register.
The comments drew support from some Democratic lawmakers — “I agree with you,” said Sen. Claire McCaskill, D-Mo. — but concerned looks from Republicans on the Senate Armed Services Committee, who spent most of the hearing criticizing how abruptly the decision to drop gender restrictions was made.
Several pressed military leaders over whether job standards would be lowered to allow women into combat roles, a charge officials repeatedly refuted.
Milley and Neller said no quotas for positions have been set. Mabus said that watering down physical standards is “unacceptable under the law, and unacceptable to me and every other senior leader in the Pentagon, because it would endanger not only the safety of Marines, but also the safety of our nation.”
But committee chairman Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said military officials still have not provided enough study or implementation plans to justify the rapid changes laid out by military leaders.
“I am concerned that the department has gone about things backward,” he said. “This consequential decision was made and mandated before the military services could study its implications, and before any implementation plans were devised to address the serious challenges raised in studies.”
Sen. Joni Ernst, R-Iowa — the only female veteran on the Senate committee — said she fully supported the changes “as long as standards are not lowered” to boost the number of women in combat jobs or force them to meet quotas.
“We need to ensure we don’t set up men or women for failure,” she said. “It’s clear we need to ensure that we’re taking into account the impact this could have on women’s health.
Marine Corps officials had requested to leave some of their infantry and combat jobs closed to women, citing a service study showing concerns about unit effectiveness. Carter denied those requests.
For many advocates, the controversy over women in combat jobs is an outdated debate.
Army leaders noted at Tuesday’s hearing that more than 9,000 women have already earned the Combat Action Badge for actions in the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. More than 1,000 women have been killed or wounded in that fighting.
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/capitol-hill/2016/02/02/army-marines-women-combat-jobs-draft/79695978/
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While I don't see either Miller or Naylor resigning....nobody is happy. I wasn't initially happy with the SOCOM response to that either as the CDR is a SEAL but somebody did some SEALsplanning on a MILBLOG and basically the dude said, fine send us all the women you want. We are not changing shit and honesly won't get through the accessions course let alone BUDS. If you read what they had to do for Ranger school to get these chicks to pass....no way one will serve in Ranger Regiment as door kicker let alone as a platoon Cdr. They won't get through RASP..which is the Regiments indoc school. Guys who go in and out of the RGT have to pass it each time. It 9 or 10 weeks of misery. I could see the Chairman of the Joint chiefs telling Obama to pound sand. He's a masshole and has not been happy with the way things have shaken out in the Pentagon. For all you libs...unlike when the fags got to serve...we never heard rumblings from leadership, nobody cared as much. This is different...people aren't happy
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First female infantry recruit is a Louisiana police officer
Published April 10, 2016
FoxNews.com
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Tammy Barnett takes her oath as the first female infantry recruit. (KSLA News 12)
Tammy Barnett said she figures her new job will be a lot like her old one.
With one notable exception: She’ll be the first female to do it.
The 25-year-old Louisiana police officer is set to report to basic training as the Army’s first female infantry recruit, The Army Times reported.
Barnett will serve in one of the military occupational specialties opened to women on April 1. She made her initial visit to recruiters in November, took her oath on Thursday and will report to Fort Benning, Georgia for basic training in June 2017.
She initially planned to enter the military police, “but infantry is similar,” she told The Army Times. “And they are more on the front lines, like law enforcement here, and I said, ‘that’s what I want to do.’”
Barnett said she planned to celebrate her oath by going fishing with her family.
“I hope that I give them the courage, because I’m a small female,” she told KSLA. “If I can do it, they can do it, too. This could give them the courage to step out of their comfort zone.”
The long delay until she begins basic training is so For Benning can “properly prepare for new trainees by having trained female officer and [noncommissioned officers] in position,” Army Recruiting Battalion Baton Rouge public affairs chief Roger Hamilton told The Army Times in an email.
“I have served the front lines in my hometown,” Barnett said in a statement, “and now I am going to serve the front lines for my country.”
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/04/10/first-female-infantry-recruit-is-louisiana-police-officer.html?intcmp=hpbt4
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House drops plans to make women register for draft
Leo Shane III, Military Times
May 17, 2016
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(Photo: Senior Airman Kenny Holston/Air Force)
Women may not have to register for the draft after all, if House Republicans get their way.
Republican members of the House Rules Committee during a late Monday meeting stripped provisions from the annual defense authorization bill that would have required women to register for the Selective Service System.
The controversial provision narrowly passed the House Armed Services Committee last month, and was expected to be a major point of debate on the defense policy bill this week.
But Rules Committee members instead voted to cut off consideration of the issue on the House floor and strike that entire section of the bill. The unusual but not unprecedented procedural move avoids what could be a thorny debate for both parties over women’s rights and roles in the military.
Democrats decried it as cowardice by Republican leaders.
“This is a dead-of-night attempt to take an important issue off the table, and I think people will probably see through this tactic,” said House Armed Services Committee Ranking Member Adam Smith, D-Wash.
The idea to make women register for the draft was introduced last month by Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., as part of an effort to highlight problems with the Pentagon’s decision to open all combat roles to women earlier this year. He voted against the idea, but it passed anyway.
Since then, conservative Republicans have scrambled to find ways to remove the provision from the annual military budget policy measure.
Under current law, men ages 18 to 26 are required to register for possible involuntary military service with the Selective Service System. Women have been exempt, and past legal challenges have pointed to combat restrictions placed on their military service as a reason for their exclusion.
Since the Defense Department announced a change in those rules, a collection of military leaders and women’s rights advocates have said they support requiring women to now register for the draft.
The conversation is largely a theoretical one, since military leaders have repeatedly insisted they have no desire to return to the draft to fill the ranks. No Americans have been pressed into involuntary military service since the last draft ended in 1973.
And watchdog groups have repeatedly questioned whether the Selective Service System could even adequately conduct a draft if one was needed. Several lawmakers, including House Armed Services Committee Chairman Mac Thornberry, R-Texas, have called for a study into whether the system and its $23 million annual budget are still needed.
But the Rules Committee move stripped out that study language from the authorization bill draft as well, leaving the entire issue on the sidelines.
The Senate Armed Services Committee has included provisions making women register for the draft in its initial versions of the authorization bill, meaning the issue will likely come up again before a final compromise bill is settled. But that work will happen behind closed doors, not in public debate before Congress.
Also on Monday, the Rules Committee accepted 61 other amendments for floor debate this week on the authorization bill. Dozens more are expected to be added to the debate list before a final vote on the full measure occurs later this week.
President Obama has threatened to veto the House draft of the authorization bill, over funding issues and restrictions on transferring prisoners out of the detention facilities at Guantanamo Bay Naval Station, Cuba.
http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/2016/05/17/ndaa-house-women-draft-stripped/84481376/
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2 female officers' applications approved for Special Forces assessment
Kyle Jahner, Army Times
July 25, 2016
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(Photo: Spc. Glen Shackley/Army)
In another first for women seeking combat jobs, the Army has approved applications from two female officers to attend Special Forces Assessment and Selection class, an early step toward becoming a Green Beret.
In all, 340 applications to SFAS were accepted, according to Maj. Melody Faulkenberry, a spokeswoman for the John F. Kennedy Special Warfare Center. Nine total women applied for Special Forces among a total of 460 applicants; those rejected may potentially be offered slots in other two Special Operations branches: civil affairs and PSYOPS. In all, 860 officers applied to the three fields.
The accepted applicants have not yet received orders, but they could attend SFAS as soon as the fall when the first of 10 SFAS courses per year begin at Fort Bragg, North Carolina. With a long process ahead, it will be 2018 before anyone in this crop of candidates could earn tabs.
Little information is available about the two women: one went to officer candidate school and the other attended a four-year ROTC program. Faulkenberry cited security concerns for potential Special Forces soldiers. By definition, as officers invited to SFAS the women are either 1st lieutenants or captains, and this cohort of officers was generally commissioned around 2013.
These officers are entering one of three routes to Special Forces. Enlisted soldiers and recruits who directly enter the Army with an 18x MOS to try out for Special Forces apply in a different process. But all have to attend SFAS and a similar subsequent battery of courses, with some variances depending on role.
Before approval for SFAS, soldiers must pass Special Forces Readiness Assessment, a base-level test of a soldier’s physical fitness. The push-up, sit-up, pull-up and running benchmarks considerably outstrip Army Physical Fitness Test requirements to filter out anyone who might be physically overwhelmed by training requirements. There is no requirement difference based on gender or age, and all who even apply to SFAS must pass, Faulkenberry said.
The bulk of the path to earning a Special Forces tab remains in front of them after their application is accepted: the 3-week SFAS itself, Airborne School if not qualified, either Maneuver Captain’s Career Course or Special Operations Captain’s Career Course (12-16 weeks), and finally the 64-week Special Forces Qualification Course.
http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/officer/2016/07/22/female-officers-sfas/87457530/
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The Only Female in Marine Corps' Infantry Course Drops Out
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(AP Images)
By Brian Freeman | Tuesday, 16 Aug 2016
The only female officer taking part in the Marine Corps' Infantry Officer's Course has dropped out after she failed to complete two conditioning hikes, CNN reports.
She was one of 34 officers who have fallen out of the course from a starting class of 97. The course began in July and ends at the end of next month.
The female officer's failure comes after Secretary of Defense Ash Carter announced the opening of all combat roles to women starting in January of this year. However, no female Marine has yet passed the Infantry Officer's Course.
In fact, Sputnik reports that for all the Marines combat roles, six out of seven women who have so far taken the physical fitness test have failed, a rate of 85.7 percent. Among men, the failure rate is 2.7 percent.
Throughout the entire army, there are now more than 220,000 combat positions that once were men only that are now open to women. However, only some 100 females have so far signed up.
As of now, there have been at least 22 new female officers who have been approved to enter the Army as second lieutenants in the infantry and armor branches, Army Times reports. After commissioning, the officers must complete branch-specific training before they can become infantry and armor officers.
Carter's historic move to open all combat positions to women came amid much controversy, CNN reports.
The Marine Corps had especially fought to keep at least certain tasks men-only, citing a study that suggests all-male squads are more effective in combat and are less likely to be injured than integrated groups.
http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/Female-Marine-Corps-Infantry-Drops-Out/2016/08/16/id/743780/#ixzz4HWVc69ok
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Marines blast Ret. female Army Col. for saying IOC standards should be lowered so women can pass
By Michele Katz
October 18th, 2016
Military News, U.S. Marines
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Retired Army Col. Ellen Haring believes the Marine Corps’ fitness standards are too severe and don’t reflect what officers actually have to do out in the field.
Haring wrote an opinion piece in The Marine Corps Times on October 15, saying the Marines’ requirements for infantry officers are ‘unrealistic’.
Eight women were apparently able to pass the Combat Endurance Test, but failed the IOC, or Infantry Officer Course. An IOC diploma is a must to earn the designation of infantry officer. The women reportedly flunked because they couldn’t hike while carrying loads over 100 pounds. That task must be done for 9.3 miles in a certain amount of time.
After asking some officers about their personal experiences in an operational setting, Haring reportedly found that there are very few cases in which officers would have to carry that kind of weight in the field, The Daily Caller reported.
This did not sit well with some infantry men who took to an online military forum to blast Haring and her theories. One Marine, identified as Josh, points out that carrying that amount of weight was “common practice in conventional settings like World War II and the Korean War, where Weapons Company platoons carry heavy loads of machine gun and mortar assets for line companies.”
Dropping the fitness requirement just to let women in creates a very ‘slippery slope’ – many Marines believe. “Excellence comes at a price, and our nation’s enemies don’t give a damn about how politically correct and diverse our warrior class looks,” Josh wrote.
In an letter to Ellen -published on Funker530- Josh said:
“First and foremost, stay in your lane. This is an easy enough rule to follow, and you’ve probably bashed it into the skulls of every soldier you have ever had in your charge. Since you are A. Not in the Marine Corps, and B. Not ever going to attempt to join the Marine Corps infantry, the entire situation at Marine Corps Infantry Officer Course has absolutely nothing to do with you, and your thoughts on the subject really do not matter to the Marines.”
In March, Haring published an article in Task and Purpose comparing the gender separate Marine boot camp to the Jim Crow Laws.
“The problem with the notion of separate but equal is that we have a well-established history that documents the poor outcomes of such a practice. The military did it to Japanese Americans and African Americans, but eventually discarded the practice,” she wrote.
In 2012, Haring sued the Pentagon saying the Pentagon’s exclusion of women from most combat positions is unconstitutional.
Before Defense Secretary Carter made the decision to open all occupations to women, then-Army Gen. Martin Dempsey laid down the law saying: “If we do decide that a particular standard is so high that a woman couldn’t make it, the burden is now on the service to come back and explain to the secretary, why is it that high? Does it really have to be that high?”
During a 2013 Pentagon news conference Dempsey “planted the seeds for a future downward trajectory in standards,” the Caller reported.
Haring, a West Point graduate, is a senior fellow with Women in International Security, where she ‘directs the Combat Integration Initiative project’. She’s currently completing a Ph.D. at George Mason University’s School for Conflict Analysis and Resolution.
http://popularmilitary.com/marines-blast-ret-female-army-col-saying-ioc-standards-lowered-women-can-pass/
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First female infantry Marines joining battalion on Thursday
By: Jeff Schogol, January 3, 2017
The Marine Corps will make history on Thursday when the first three female infantry Marines join their unit at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina, officials said.
The women are headed to 1st Battalion, 8th Marines, where they will serve in the following infantry military occupational specialties: rifleman, machine gunner and mortar Marine, said 1st Lt. John McCombs, a spokesman for II Marine Expeditionary Force.
The battalion has a team of women leaders consisting of a logistics officer, motor transport officer and wire chief to support the female infantry Marines, McCombs said.
All three of the infantry Marines graduated from the School of Infantry as part of the service’s gender integration research, said Marine Corps spokesman Capt. Philip Kulczewski.
“The Corps applauds the time and efforts of those Marines who volunteered,” Kulczewski said. “As we continue to move forward, we remain steadfast in our commitment to ensure that the men and women who earn the title ‘Marine’ will be ready, and will provide America with an elite crisis-response force that is ready to fight and win.”
In March, Defense Secretary Ashton Carter approved the Marine Corps’ plan to allow women to join military occupational specialties that had been restricted to men only. Carter had refused an earlier request by the Corps to keep women out of combat jobs after the service’s gender integration study found that mixed-gender teams did not perform as well as all-male teams and that female Marines were more likely to get injured.
It is unclear whether President-elect Donald Trump will pursue gender integration in the military with the same vigor as the Obama administration. Retired Marine Gen. James Mattis, Trump’s nominee for defense secretary, told Military Times in September that “shortsighted social programs” could make the U.S. military less effective.
Marine Corps Commandant Gen. Robert Neller has said no one has talked to him about possibly reconsidering the service’s efforts to allow women to serve in combat jobs.
“I’ve heard people speculate on it,” Neller told reporters on Dec. 7. “I don’t do speculation. Until the 20th of January, we’ve been told what to do and we’re in the process of doing it.”
Neller bristled when a reporter used the term “women in combat” to describe the military’s gender integration effort, explaining that women had been excluded from certain units and jobs, not combat altogether.
“With all due respect, I would never insult a female member of the armed service and talk about women in combat,” Neller said. “They’ve been in combat throughout history.”
For example, Marine spokeswoman Maj. Megan McClung was killed by a roadside bomb in Iraq on Dec. 6, 2006, he said.
“I’m coming up on the 10th anniversary when Megan McClung was killed in Ramadi … And I sent her to Ramadi,” Neller said. “So, I don’t mean to take umbrage, but when people start talking about women in combat, I don’t need a class on women in combat.”
https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/articles/women-join-infantry?utm_content=buffer46d34&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer
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First female Marine in history to graduate infantry training course
Fox News
A female Marine is set to make history next week as the first woman ever to graduate from the Marine Corps' demanding Infantry Officer Course.
The woman, who wasn’t immediately identified, will be the first female to graduate from the course in the Corps' 241 years of service. She completed the requirements of an exhausting 13-week program and will graduate at Marine Corps Base Quantico on Sept. 25, a Marine Corps spokesperson told Fox News Thursday.
The officer is the first woman to pass the course, The Washington Post reported, noting that more than 30 women have attempted the course.
The program "trains and educates newly selected infantry and ground intelligence officers in leadership, infantry skills, and character required to serve as infantry platoon commanders in the operating forces," the spokesperson said.
The officer will likely lead a platoon of around 40 infantry Marines, according to the Post.
MARINES EYE PLAN TO PUT WOMEN IN WEST COAST COMBAT TRAINING
Former Defense Secretary Ash Carter ordered the military in 2015 to open all combat jobs to women, after former Marine Corps commandant and Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Gen. Joseph Dunford argued that the military branch be allowed to exclude women from certain front-line jobs.
As part of his argument, Dunford cited studies that showed mixed-gender units aren't as capable as all-male units.
The course includes trekking between nearly six and nine miles while carrying loads of up to 152 pounds, Task and Purpose reported, and is considered one of the toughest Marine Corps training courses.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/21/first-female-marine-in-history-to-graduate-infantry-training-course.html
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i dont want women in my army
wtf
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First female Marine in history to graduate infantry training course
Fox News
A female Marine is set to make history next week as the first woman ever to graduate from the Marine Corps' demanding Infantry Officer Course.
The woman, who wasn’t immediately identified, will be the first female to graduate from the course in the Corps' 241 years of service. She completed the requirements of an exhausting 13-week program and will graduate at Marine Corps Base Quantico on Sept. 25, a Marine Corps spokesperson told Fox News Thursday.
The officer is the first woman to pass the course, The Washington Post reported, noting that more than 30 women have attempted the course.
The program "trains and educates newly selected infantry and ground intelligence officers in leadership, infantry skills, and character required to serve as infantry platoon commanders in the operating forces," the spokesperson said.
The officer will likely lead a platoon of around 40 infantry Marines, according to the Post.
MARINES EYE PLAN TO PUT WOMEN IN WEST COAST COMBAT TRAINING
Former Defense Secretary Ash Carter ordered the military in 2015 to open all combat jobs to women, after former Marine Corps commandant and Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Gen. Joseph Dunford argued that the military branch be allowed to exclude women from certain front-line jobs.
As part of his argument, Dunford cited studies that showed mixed-gender units aren't as capable as all-male units.
The course includes trekking between nearly six and nine miles while carrying loads of up to 152 pounds, Task and Purpose reported, and is considered one of the toughest Marine Corps training courses.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/21/first-female-marine-in-history-to-graduate-infantry-training-course.html
Did she have to meet the same (not lowered) standards and did she get the exact same treatment as everyone else?
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Did she have to meet the same (not lowered) standards and did she get the exact same treatment as everyone else?
Pretty sure it was the same standards. That's why she's the only one.
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Respect.
6 Bragg Women Become First in Army to Earn Expert Infantryman Badge
(https://images01.military.com/sites/default/files/styles/full/public/2018-01/expert-infantryman-badge-12.jpg?itok=nJ0ZjSJJ)
A soldier wears the Expert Infantry Badge after completing all the requirements. Nathan Maysonet/Air Force
The Fayetteville Observer, N.C. 24 Jan 2018
By Amanda Dolasinski
Women quietly broke through barriers last fall when they became the first in the Army to earn the prestigious Expert Infantryman Badge at Fort Bragg, North Carolina.
The badge, which was created in the 1940s, only recently opened to women when the Department of Defense struck down regulations that prevented them from serving in infantry jobs.
The women earned the badge during testing with hundreds of male candidates in November -- about two years after infantry jobs opened to women.
"This historic achievement is a reminder of the great things we can achieve when women are seen and treated as equals and given the same chance to contribute to their country," U.S. Sen. Tammy Duckworth said in a statement. The Democrat from Illinois was among the first Army women to fly combat missions during Operation Iraqi Freedom.
In 2004, Duckworth was deployed to Iraq as a Black Hawk pilot for the Illinois Army National Guard when it was struck down by a rocket-propelled grenade. She lost her legs and partial use of her right arm.
"These six incredible women prove exactly why the Department of Defense was right to allow women to serve in all military roles, an action that was long overdue," she said. "Remember, women have served attached to infantry units for decades without being formally assigned to the unit -- so even when they meet the requirements, they technically could not earn the EIB until now."
Through a spokesman for the 82nd Airborne Division, all six women who earned the badge declined to talk about their achievement or the significance of the badge. The division did not name the women.
Division leaders declined interview requests for this story.
Earning the Badge
To earn the Expert Infantryman Badge, a soldier must successfully complete 30 tasks that prove mastery infantry skills. If a soldier makes three errors, he or she fails and must wait one year to try again.
At Fort Bragg, soldiers were tested on weapons proficiency and medical and patrol skills.
Soldiers assembled the Carl Gustav recoilless rifle, claymore mine, Javelin and AK-47 weapons systems. Among medical tasks, they performed first aid for a suspected fracture, open head wound, open abdominal wound and burns. In the patrol lane, soldiers decontaminated themselves and equipment, identified terrain features on a map and applied camouflage.
The testing takes place over several days, during the day and at night.
Of the 1,000 candidates who tested for the badge at Fort Bragg in November, 287 earned it. The candidates came from Fort Bragg, U.S. Army Special Operations Command, 18th Airborne Corps and units at Fort Stewart, Georgia.
Traditionally, only about 18 percent of all candidates who test for the badge earn it.
Testing for the Expert Infantryman Badge is conducted at several installations each year. Standards for the test are set by the Infantry School at Fort Benning, Georgia.
A 'Soldier Skill'
As women became eligible for infantry jobs, Command Sgt. Maj. Martin Celestine said there was never skepticism that women wouldn't be strong enough or trained well enough to test for the badge.
"No, there was no doubt," said Celestine, command sergeant major of the Infantry School. "I've deployed multiple times, and I've been side-by-side with women. When we talk about technical competency, it's not about 'man or woman.' This is a soldier skill. We're all one team here."
Col. Townley Hedrick, deputy commandant for the school, said the Army's training has set women up for success, just like the men who have been training in those jobs for decades. He said he expected women to earn the badge.
"Women are going through infantry basic training," he said. "They're going through operations. We expect them to go through it and earn it just like a man."
Lt. Gen. Stephen Townsend, who recently left command of the 18th Airborne Corps, said the corps and overall Army readiness has been strengthened as women integrate into combat arms jobs.
"Army forces must possess the capabilities -- and be prepared to fight across multiple domains and through contested areas -- to deter potential adversaries, and should deterrence fail, rapidly defeat them," he said. "As the Army shapes the future force, we will ensure that every individual has the opportunity to maximize his or her potential."
The achievement has fueled the passion for Jakhira Blue, a 17-year-old 2017 graduate of North Johnston High School, who had been planning to enlist in the Army as airborne infantry. She will head to Fort Benning for training in March.
She knows she'll be in the minority in infantry training since the jobs opened to women. It doesn't matter, she said.
"It's going to make me push myself harder," she said. "I want to show everybody I can do it."
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This article is written by Amanda Dolasinski from The Fayetteville Observer, N.C. and was legally licensed via the Tribune Content Agency through the NewsCred publisher network. Please direct all licensing questions to legal@newscred.com.
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/01/24/6-bragg-women-become-first-army-earn-expert-infantryman-badge.html?ESRC=army-a_180124.nl
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I'm oldschool in that I don't like the idea of women on the frontline, etc. but if they are going to do it it is good that they are keeping the same standards for all.
There was a show on the history channel of some camp that is led by former seals, etc. Actually very realistic/hardcore. Not like some of the fake reality shows that say they are duplicating it. They would keep these people in super small boxes for hours on end and all sorts of other very challenging activities/drills. People would sign up and most would drop out. Not many make it to the end. A lady made it to the the top 6 or 8 during that camp and it was most certainly very difficult to get that far.
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I'm oldschool in that I don't like the idea of women on the frontline, etc. but if they are going to do it it is good that they are keeping the same standards for all.
There was a show on the history channel of some camp that is led by former seals, etc. Actually very realistic/hardcore. Not like some of the fake reality shows that say they are duplicating it. They would keep these people in super small boxes for hours on end and all sorts of other very challenging activities/drills. People would sign up and most would drop out. Not many make it to the end. A lady made it to the the top 6 or 8 during that camp and it was most certainly very difficult to get that far.
I agree. Don't particularly like the idea, but if they are going to do it, the standards should be the same for everybody.
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I agree. Don't particularly like the idea, but if they are going to do it, the standards should be the same for everybody.
Exactly right.
Well said.
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12 Female Soldiers Have Now Graduated Army Ranger School
(https://images02.military.com/sites/default/files/styles/full/public/2018-04/female-rangers-first-1800.jpg?itok=inTqRPdm)
From left, U.S. Army Capt. Kristen Griest, Maj. Lisa Jaster and 1st Lt. Shaye Haver share a moment following Jaster's graduation from Ranger School on Fort Benning, Ga., Oct. 16, 2015. (U.S. Army/Staff Sgt. Alex Manne/ Released)
Military.com 9 Apr 2018
By Matthew Cox
The U.S. Army's vice chief of staff praised the achievements of female soldiers Monday, describing how small numbers of women continue to join infantry and armored combat units and graduate from the service's most grueling training course.
"Ten women have graduated from Ranger School, which is our toughest school. We have a woman commanding a company in the 82nd Airborne Division, an infantry company," Gen. James McConville told an audience at the Future of War 2018 conference sponsored by New America and Arizona State University.
The general's count did not include two women who graduated from Ranger School on Friday, bringing the total to 12, officials said Tuesday.
It's been five years since former Defense Secretary Leon Panetta lifted a ban on women serving in combat roles. Three years ago, the Army launched a historic effort to open Ranger School to female applicants.
Out of the 19 women who originally volunteered in April 2015, Capt. Kristen Griest and 1st Lt. Shaye Haver became the first women to earn the coveted Ranger Tab that August. A third woman graduated that October.
They accomplished a hard-won feat that has eluded many male soldiers since the course was founded in 1952. Ranger School is a 62-day course described as the Army's premier infantry leadership course; an ordeal that pushes students to their physical and mental limits.
On average, only about 40 percent of men successfully complete the course, Army officials maintain. And only about 25 percent of Ranger School students graduate without having to repeat at least one phase of the grueling course.
"We have 170,000 women serving in the Army -- 170,000, that is almost the size of the Marine Corps," McConville said. "We have women in every single infantry, armor and artillery battalion and every single brigade combat team in the Army."
The Army currently has 600 women in infantry and armor jobs, McConville said.
Initially, female officers who completed the training standards for infantry and armor were sent to Fort Bragg, North Carolina, and Fort Hood, Texas. The Army is expanding that policy to include installations such as Fort Campbell, Kentucky ,and Fort Carson, Colorado, McConville said at the Association of the United States Army's Global Force Symposium in March.
"If you meet the standards, you can serve anywhere you want in the United States Army," he said at AUSA. "Women are meeting the standards, and they are doing well."
-- Editor's Note: This story has been updated to show that 12 women have graduated from Ranger School.
https://www.military.com/daily-guy-school.html
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I'm all for it. I think they either need to be on the front lines or working at a reduced rate. When I was in, we were all paid the same. Male, female, it was all based on rank and seniority. But men were being sent off to the jungles for training and the desert for fighting and the females stayed back. If you want equal rights, equal pay equal respect, put up or shut up. If you can't meet the standards, you shouldn't be making the same pay
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Bum started thread thread by shitting on the military by assuming they would be lowering their standards to allow women to qualify
Translation: Army to figure out how to lower strength and fitness standards so more females can work in combat arms jobs.
Army study to determine how women will be deemed fit to join the front lines
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I'm all for it. I think they either need to be on the front lines or working at a reduced rate. When I was in, we were all paid the same. Male, female, it was all based on rank and seniority. But men were being sent off to the jungles for training and the desert for fighting and the females stayed back. If you want equal rights, equal pay equal respect, put up or shut up. If you can't meet the standards, you shouldn't be making the same pay
True. I said that about professional tennis when they raised the prize money for women to be equal to men, but didn't increase the number of sets. Women still win best 2 of 3, while men win 3 of 5. Anyone who opposed it was crucified.
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I'm all for it. I think they either need to be on the front lines or working at a reduced rate. When I was in, we were all paid the same. Male, female, it was all based on rank and seniority. But men were being sent off to the jungles for training and the desert for fighting and the females stayed back.
If you want equal rights, equal pay equal respect, put up or shut up.
If you can't meet the standards, you shouldn't be making the same pay
True. I said that about professional tennis when they raised the prize money for women to be equal to men, but didn't increase the number of sets. Women still win best 2 of 3, while men win 3 of 5. Anyone who opposed it was crucified.
Both very good & exactly right
Stop lowering standards to allow sub par people in
It’s absolute nonsense all this pandering to each
And every different demograph
You’re either good enough or you’re not.
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Both very good & exactly right
Stop lowering standards to allow sub par people in
It’s absolute nonsense all this pandering to each
And every different demograph
You’re either good enough or you’re not.
Also, I want to say there is a Mother Nature factor, because men on average are stronger and faster than women, but in today's world science doesn't matter. You can choose to be whatever gender you want to be, regardless of biology.
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True. I said that about professional tennis when they raised the prize money for women to be equal to men, but didn't increase the number of sets. Women still win best 2 of 3, while men win 3 of 5. Anyone who opposed it was crucified.
I recall some male pro ranked out of the top 100 beat both Williams sisters on the same day.
There's a continual push for female professional cyclists to be paid as much as men. When women can do what men do - compete against and beat other men - then they deserve the same money.
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I recall some male pro ranked out of the top 100 beat both Williams sisters on the same day.
There's a continual push for female professional cyclists to be paid as much as men. When women can do what men do - compete against and beat other men - then they deserve the same money.
Indeed:
Another event dubbed a "Battle of the Sexes" took place during the 1998 Australian Open between Karsten Braasch and the Williams sisters. Venus and Serena Williams had claimed that they could beat any male player ranked outside the world's top 200, so Braasch, then ranked 203rd, challenged them both. Braasch was described by one journalist as "a man whose training regime centered around a pack of cigarettes and more than a couple bottles of ice cold lager". The matches took place on court number 12 in Melbourne Park, after Braasch had finished a round of golf and two shandies. He first took on Serena and after leading 5–0, beat her 6–1. Venus then walked on court and again Braasch was victorious, this time winning 6–2. Braasch said afterwards, "500 and above, no chance". He added that he had played like someone ranked 600th in order to keep the game "fun". Braasch said the big difference was that men can chase down shots much easier, and that men put spin on the ball that the women can't handle. The Williams sisters adjusted their claim to beating men outside the top 350.