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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: 240 is Back on August 29, 2014, 05:12:46 AM

Title: Speeding cop on computer kills kid on bike... Gets a "careless driving" ticket
Post by: 240 is Back on August 29, 2014, 05:12:46 AM
UPDATE TO CASE:
They determined the cop was speeding and using his laptop, both violations.

They gave him a "careless driving" ticket.   He's been back on the force since a few days after the wreck.

People are outraged locally... he killed a 15 year old riding his bike to school... playing on a computer (policy of LSCO is to pull over to use, always) while speeding (at rates of "at least 50 in a 45mph").

He got a careless driving ticket.   No reckless, no manslaughter, no anything.  The same thing we'd get for drifting 2 lanes to turn without signaling, or eating a burger while driving (and hitting nobody).   Careless driving.  A ticket.  And they wait til friday PM news dump to release it.


www.nbc-2.com



In SW Florida, this is a huge hotbutton issue.  

Basically, cop is driving "at least" 50 mph in a 45 mph limit zone.  He runs over kid who is legally in the road, but may not have had lights on his bike (family said he had reflectors, but who knows).   He kills kid with his car.

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/26399611/report-released-on-deputy-involved-crash-that-killed-cape-teen

So the Q is - for cops or for anyone - if you are speeding, and it's proven (as it is here with the car chip metrics), are  you at fault?  Is this cop looking at jail time?  Fired from police dept, etc?  

People are HUGELY divided here... some say "Hey, everyone speeds".   Other say "kid was 15, driving to school, cop broke law, lock him up".   What is the legal precedent here?  (Note: "At Least" wording may mean cop was going faster - they do speed bigtime on that street).
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Royalty on August 29, 2014, 05:23:36 AM
In SW Florida, this is a huge hotbutton issue.  

Basically, cop is driving "at least" 50 mph in a 45 mph limit zone.  He runs over kid who is legally in the road, but may not have had lights on his bike (family said he had reflectors, but who knows).   He kills kid with his car.

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/26399611/report-released-on-deputy-involved-crash-that-killed-cape-teen

So the Q is - for cops or for anyone - if you are speeding, and it's proven (as it is here with the car chip metrics), are  you at fault?  Is this cop looking at jail time?  Fired from police dept, etc?  

People are HUGELY divided here... some say "Hey, everyone speeds".   Other say "kid was 15, driving to school, cop broke law, lock him up".   What is the legal precedent here?  (Note: "At Least" wording may mean cop was going faster - they do speed bigtime on that street).


What time of day was the accident? How dark was it?

It's still August, school isn't in session yet is it? (you said that the kid was on the way to school)
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Lustral on August 29, 2014, 05:30:19 AM
Speeding doesn't necessarily mean fault or dangerous driving. Depends on situation.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Irongrip400 on August 29, 2014, 06:05:41 AM
If he is found at fault, he should be fired.  If he was on his phone or something, he should be fired.  If he was speeding i.e. reckless driving, he should be given legal punishment.  Accidents happen, and if it was just that, through no real fault of the cop or the boys, then he should get off with just his conscious haunting him for the rest of his life.  This is why I do not bike on the open road.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Andy Griffin on August 29, 2014, 06:07:27 AM
The kid probably didn't even lift.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: MONSTER_TRICEPS on August 29, 2014, 06:14:49 AM
Him being a cop is relevant how? There are different standards for cops?
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Shockwave on August 29, 2014, 06:19:06 AM
Cops generally dont give tickets for a 5mph over offense.

I think the speeding thing is irrelevant to the situation. It wouldnt have been any different if he was going 45mph.

Itd be one thing if he was going 90 in a 40, then id say its an issue. But 50 in a 45? Please. Wouldnt have changed a thing.

I think itd have more to do with visibility, kid following rules of the road, reflectors, etc.

If the cop couldnt see the kid, then not much he cluld have done.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: 240 is Back on August 29, 2014, 06:19:13 AM
Kid was hit by cop around 6:15 am.  it was a little dark there.  Some say that means the cop should have been MORE cautious.  First week of school.  Kid was driving his bike.  There were 30 to 40 feet of skid mark where the cop TRIED to avoid hitting kid.  Swerved too.  Bike was well under cop car, kid was launched pretty far.  Violent crash.  

They have 100% proof the cop was speeding, although they haven't said what "at least 50 mph" means.  I guess what I'm asking is, if the kid was doing everything legal - riding his bike with a reflector on a public road where no sidewalks available - And the cop was 100% proven to be speeding - What will the likely response be?

Will cop be charged/fired?   I'm just curious if there's a precedent for this.  Most estimate he was actually going 60-ish, based upon the crazy skid marks and violence of crash... and cops FLY thru that area usually.  That actual number will be released later - they just made it clear he WAS speeding and emphasized "at least".  So *IF* it ends up being 50 or 60 mph... and he killed a 15 year old kid... does that cop see charges?
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Shockwave on August 29, 2014, 06:26:33 AM
Kid was hit by cop around 6:15 am.  it was a little dark there.  Some say that means the cop should have been MORE cautious.  First week of school.  Kid was driving his bike.  There were 30 to 40 feet of skid mark where the cop TRIED to avoid hitting kid.  Swerved too.  Bike was well under cop car, kid was launched pretty far.  Violent crash.  

They have 100% proof the cop was speeding, although they haven't said what "at least 50 mph" means.  I guess what I'm asking is, if the kid was doing everything legal - riding his bike with a reflector on a public road where no sidewalks available - And the cop was 100% proven to be speeding - What will the likely response be?

Will cop be charged/fired?   I'm just curious if there's a precedent for this.  Most estimate he was actually going 60-ish, based upon the crazy skid marks and violence of crash... and cops FLY thru that area usually.  That actual number will be released later - they just made it clear he WAS speeding and emphasized "at least".  So *IF* it ends up being 50 or 60 mph... and he killed a 15 year old kid... does that cop see charges?
50mph in a 45 is nothing. 55 in a 45 would probably make a bit of difference. 60mph in a 45 could be considered reckless driving by police standards.

If the kid didnt have reflectors and couldnt be seen, cop probably shouldnt be charged unless he was going in excess of 15mph over. Now, if the kid DID have all the proper gear, hell probably be charged no matter what.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Deacon Jeschin on August 29, 2014, 06:35:48 AM
The driver is responsible for operating his vehicle.  Doesn't matter what his profession is.  Being that he's a cop, his cell phone record probably lists a  call to the 16 year old counter girl at the local deli prior to his killing the child on the bike. The hero was probably on his way there and not paying attention to the surroundings....the scumbag.

The child's family should expect the cop to be cleared of any wrongdoing.  They should then pursue an alternate form of justice.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Archer77 on August 29, 2014, 06:41:05 AM
I react strongly when I see cops speeding in non-emergency situations. The police are not above the law.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Knooger on August 29, 2014, 06:43:08 AM
Need to know the race of the kid before I can answer.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Kwon_2 on August 29, 2014, 06:44:01 AM
In SW Florida, this is a huge hotbutton issue. 

Basically, cop is driving "at least" 50 mph in a 45 mph limit zone.  He runs over kid who is legally in the road, but may not have had lights on his bike (family said he had reflectors, but who knows).   He kills kid with his car.

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/26399611/report-released-on-deputy-involved-crash-that-killed-cape-teen

So the Q is - for cops or for anyone - if you are speeding, and it's proven (as it is here with the car chip metrics), are  you at fault?  Is this cop looking at jail time?  Fired from police dept, etc? 

People are HUGELY divided here... some say "Hey, everyone speeds".   Other say "kid was 15, driving to school, cop broke law, lock him up".   What is the legal precedent here?  (Note: "At Least" wording may mean cop was going faster - they do speed bigtime on that street).

Who is at fault?

Primary Captain and The Organization
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: 240 is Back on August 29, 2014, 06:48:03 AM
50mph in a 45 is nothing. 55 in a 45 would probably make a bit of difference. 60mph in a 45 could be considered reckless driving by police standards.

If the kid didnt have reflectors and couldnt be seen, cop probably shouldnt be charged unless he was going in excess of 15mph over. Now, if the kid DID have all the proper gear, hell probably be charged no matter what.

This is what I'm curious about.   I always had the belief that if you're speeding, you're speeding.  Even if practically, there probably isn't much difference in stopping time at 45 vs 46 mph.  I always figured, if you're speeding, you're liable, criminally, etc.

So it's not really a debate on "could the cop have stopped at 45 mph vs 55 or 60 mph?

The parents said he had reflectors on bike.  Cops saying otherwise, but the bike was smashed under cop car and taken into impound with the car.   Cops are doing a huge campaign on getting sidewalks, lights, etc... and that's all good... but these cops do routinely break the speed limit by 15 mph, when they're just cruising around.   It's foggy, dark... if he's going 40 instead of 60, things probably end differently.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: el numero uno on August 29, 2014, 06:49:35 AM
If the kid was black then it was his fault according to getbig experts.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: YngiweRhoads on August 29, 2014, 06:55:32 AM
Interesting. This is what's happening in my home town this week. All residential school zones will have a reduced speed limit in the areas surround the school.

(http://vipmedia.globalnews.ca/2014/08/school-zones.jpg?w=720&h=480&crop=1)

That's in km/hr. It's under 19 mph for you Yanks.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Shockwave on August 29, 2014, 06:56:52 AM
This is what I'm curious about.   I always had the belief that if you're speeding, you're speeding.  Even if practically, there probably isn't much difference in stopping time at 45 vs 46 mph.  I always figured, if you're speeding, you're liable, criminally, etc.

So it's not really a debate on "could the cop have stopped at 45 mph vs 55 or 60 mph?

The parents said he had reflectors on bike.  Cops saying otherwise, but the bike was smashed under cop car and taken into impound with the car.   Cops are doing a huge campaign on getting sidewalks, lights, etc... and that's all good... but these cops do routinely break the speed limit by 15 mph, when they're just cruising around.   It's foggy, dark... if he's going 40 instead of 60, things probably end differently.

Eh... its not really a black and white line on speeding.

Cops in most places ive lived wont stop you for anything under 10mph over....

I think the thing youre missing is, the speed is largely irrelevant. He hit the kid, so really unless he just couldnt see the kid, hes going to be at some kind of fault. But no, i wouldnt say just because he was going 5mph ovwe makes him automatically guilty. By your logic he could have been going .01mph over and be guilty because he broke the law.

Thats how children look at things, the reality is everything is shades of gray.... there is no black/white in the real world.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Archer77 on August 29, 2014, 06:58:01 AM
. but these cops do routinely break the speed limit by 15 mph, when they're just cruising around.   It's foggy, dark... if he's going 40 instead of 60, things probably end differently.


Yes they do.  The problem is the mentality that allows them to rationalize breaking the law.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: 240 is Back on August 29, 2014, 07:00:34 AM
But no, i wouldnt say just because he was going 5mph ovwe makes him automatically guilty. By your logic he could have been going .01mph over and be guilty because he broke the law.

Thats how children look at things, the reality is everything is shades of gray.... there is no black/white in the real world.

I guess I should phrase it as leagally/criminally culpable.

if he's going 25% over the speed limit... 60 in a 45, let's say... he's near a school, first week of school, where kids are all over on bikes, and he's knowingly breaking limit in a non-emergency way... will he see charges?

And then we'd work backwards... 55 in a 45 is a big deal.  50 in a 45 is probably not ideal either.   What is the LEGAL CUTOFF, I guess I'm wondering.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Nails on August 29, 2014, 07:01:17 AM
Laws only apply to the public, Cops are above the Law


i see them all the time talking on their cellphones or txting in traffic, using their emergency lights to beat a traffic jam and then turn off the lights
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Knooger on August 29, 2014, 07:08:13 AM
using their emergency lights to beat a traffic jam and then turn off the lights


There are 3 different levels of getting to an emergency call, code 1, code 2 and code 3.

Code 1 they only use the lights to go through intersections.

Code 2 they have the lights on the whole time.

Code 3 is they have lights and sirens on.

It depends on the type of emergency they are going to.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Irongrip400 on August 29, 2014, 07:15:18 AM
There are 3 different levels of getting to an emergency call, code 1, code 2 and code 3.

Code 1 they only use the lights to go through intersections.

Code 2 they have the lights on the whole time.

Code 3 is they have lights and sirens on.

It depends on the type of emergency they are going to.

Fail.  Your post mentions nothing about race, docking, or schmoeing.  Your Knooger card has been rescinded.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: MikMaq on August 29, 2014, 07:22:12 AM
Kid was riding to fucking school.

It's not like he was running around gangbanging.

Cop should serve automatic year in prison.

Regardless of speed he should of seen that kid at that speed limited

Why can't people admit they just don't pay attention when driving.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: muscleman-2013 on August 29, 2014, 07:23:52 AM
Him being a cop is relevant how? There are different standards for cops?

YES. 
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: muscleman-2013 on August 29, 2014, 07:26:47 AM
I react strongly when I see cops speeding in non-emergency situations. The police are not above the law.

I see cops doing dangerous stuff on the road A LOT, and in non-emergency situations.  These douche bags love to flaunt it.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Shockwave on August 29, 2014, 07:28:42 AM
Kid was riding to fucking school.

It's not like he was running around gangbanging.

Cop should serve automatic year in prison.

Regardless of speed he should of seen that kid at that speed limited

Why can't people admit they just don't pay attention when driving.
That was kind of my point....

Dudes going to get charged.... speed was largely irrelevant... he hit a kid on a bike. Hell lrobably be charged with involuntary /vehicular manslaughter or something, and the speed is going to have next to zero to do with his guilt.

If he couldnt see the kid, thats one thing. If he could, hell be found guilty.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Nails on August 29, 2014, 07:29:16 AM
(http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/files/library/cop_on_phone.jpg)

(http://www.crazyauntpurl.com/images/blog/cop-on-phone.jpg)


(http://2fm9xz2drvqemrbu.zippykid.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/cop-on-phone-while-driving.jpg)


(http://www.vosizneias.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/2087051169_b6fcb25059.jpg)

(http://www.disclosurenewsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/s-100-10.jpg)

Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: 240 is Back on August 29, 2014, 08:08:29 AM
Eh... its not really a black and white line on speeding.

Okay.  So speeding doesn't automatically assign fault/blame?   Confirmed?   that's my main Q here. If the kid did nothing but ride to school, and I hit him, and I say "well, I was probably going 50 in the 45, but I didn't see him"...

Am I going be charged there?  Or will they say "Hey, it's only 5, you probably couldn't have stopped anyway, it's cool".

See, I think even at 46 or 47mph, you are speeding, you are operating that vehicle illegally,
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: 240 is Back on August 29, 2014, 08:10:08 AM
If he couldnt see the kid, thats one thing. If he could, hell be found guilty.

it's clear he didn't try to kill a kid... he screeched his breaks and left 30 or 40 feet of hard skid mark, still hitting the kid hard enough to destory headlight and launch kid out of site - witnesses saw no kid... who knows how far the cop launched him (AFTER braking for 40 feet). 

Sixty mph wouldn't surprise me in the least.  But yes, he did try to stop, he did see the kid, just too late.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Andy Griffin on August 29, 2014, 08:17:25 AM
it's clear he didn't try to kill a kid... he screeched his breaks and left 30 or 40 feet of hard skid mark, still hitting the kid hard enough to destory headlight and launch kid out of site - witnesses saw no kid... who knows how far the cop launched him (AFTER braking for 40 feet). 

Sixty mph wouldn't surprise me in the least.  But yes, he did try to stop, he did see the kid, just too late.

did he leave any markings on the road?
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Deacon Jeschin on August 29, 2014, 08:18:25 AM
50mph in a 45 is nothing. 55 in a 45 would probably make a bit of difference. 60mph in a 45 could be considered reckless driving by police standards.

If the kid didnt have reflectors and couldnt be seen, cop probably shouldnt be charged unless he was going in excess of 15mph over. Now, if the kid DID have all the proper gear, hell probably be charged no matter what.

The speed of the vehicle shouldn't matter except to bring additional charges against the driver.

If the cop was driving 10 miles an hour UNDER the speed limit and hit the kid he should still be charged...as any civilian would.  He was not in control of his vehicle.

He struck and killed a person.  If proven he was speeding, that would be called a contributing factor to the crime.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Option D on August 29, 2014, 08:19:47 AM
wow thats fucked up..
the scary part is it might get investegated and go to trial and all that, And the cop will get off...
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Shockwave on August 29, 2014, 08:24:18 AM
it's clear he didn't try to kill a kid... he screeched his breaks and left 30 or 40 feet of hard skid mark, still hitting the kid hard enough to destory headlight and launch kid out of site - witnesses saw no kid... who knows how far the cop launched him (AFTER braking for 40 feet). 

Sixty mph wouldn't surprise me in the least.  But yes, he did try to stop, he did see the kid, just too late.
Thats not quite what i was saying...

Speed is irrelevant as he hit the kid decisively... its not like he just barely clipped him after screeching to a halt. Hes going to be charged. The only way he may get out of it is if the kid didnt have visibility on the bike in low light situations.  

How fast he was going isnt going to determine if hes guilty of killing this kid. Its a side issue that will only come into play if he legitimatley can argue that he could not see the kid. I

f thats the case, and the prosecution can prove that the kid only died because he was going over the speed limit and it effected his braking time, then it may effect his verdict.

If the kid had reflectors, was on the right side of fhe road, etc, then hes going to be guilty because he should have seen him.

I dont think this guy is automatically guilty just because his vehicle broke the plane of 45mph... thats a serious oversimplification of what transpired.

Sometimes in cases like this, if they can prove the kid couldnt be seen and the officers speed didnt adversly effect his brake time, that the guy will get slapped with a relatively minor charge like reckless driving....
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Agnostic007 on August 29, 2014, 08:25:25 AM
I react strongly when I see cops speeding in non-emergency situations. The police are not above the law.

Me too
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Archer77 on August 29, 2014, 08:28:24 AM
Me too

By brother is a police officer for over a decade and he hates it too. Many of the feelings I have towards law enforcement, good and bad, come from the experiences hes had.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Agnostic007 on August 29, 2014, 08:36:23 AM
There are 7 pages of the accident investigation. Without seeing all of it we're left trying to determine fault with a few bits of information.

1. The cop was going over the speed limit (no idea if he was on an emergency call or just driving to breakfast)
2. The article said the bike did have lights, he was wearing no helmet
3. Vehicle struck bike on front left bumper. Reporter speculates it might mean kid crossed in front of vehicle.

So I have to play the what if game...

If the kid was driving down the road legally, lights on and the cop hit him then I would imagine "Driving too fast for conditions" would be easy to prove because someone died because he couldn't stop or evade in time. Here in Texas, the speed limit can be irrelevant. If you are driving 40 in a 60 and the roads are iced and you lose control.. you're at fault. So even at 50mph in a 45mph zone, if you are over driving your headlights, that's on you.  It's tragic, the cop certainly didn't intend to run over a kid going to school but when someone dies over your mistake, then the consequences are harsh.

If the kid for whatever reason, veered into his lane at a time where it would not allow a reasonable person to avoid hitting him then that's not on the cop.     
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: 240 is Back on August 29, 2014, 08:40:44 AM
did he leave any markings on the road?

yes he left markings on the road.  That day, reporters said skid marks were 20 to 40 feet.  later, they said 30 feet.  They didn't release pics of the skid marks, so I dunno.  But they definitely said he locked the brakes and tried valiantly not to hit the kid.

Also, they let the cop work for a week after the accident, THEN they moved him to paid administrative work.   I can't imagine a person is mentally "right" to drive to work the next day on the same road he killed a kid a day earlier.  They waited a week to move him.  he was on active duty they next day, they said.

I support law enforcement in a big way.  But I dislike speeders greatly.  I drive a big ol car and I never speed.  Roads here are full of idiots and old people... i *need* to stay at 45mph because I have to be able to react to the morons on the road that come out of nowhere, brake suddenly, or are speeding on their own.    one ticket can be a few hundred bucks, not worth it to go 55 when I can go 45 and spend an extra few minutes listening to my "learn spanish" mp3s or review some Jack Johnson lyrics in my head as I drive.  

I see cops speed daily, and I admit, it makes my blood boil.  They don't give a shit, but they will stop us for the same thing, ruin our day, give tickets, beat our asses lol, etc.

I guess I see speeding as one of the only things where there's blatant abuse by lae enforcement in plain sight and nobody says anything. if a cop was smoking pot in his car, it'd be huge news.  if a cop was banging hooker in broud daylight, it'd be huge news.  But a cop can go 70 in a 45 on a daily basis and eh, it's only a half-ton vehicle doing 102 feet PER SECOND.   I dont get it.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Shockwave on August 29, 2014, 08:41:34 AM
There are 7 pages of the accident investigation. Without seeing all of it we're left trying to determine fault with a few bits of information.

1. The cop was going over the speed limit (no idea if he was on an emergency call or just driving to breakfast)
2. The article said the bike did have lights, he was wearing no helmet
3. Vehicle struck bike on front left bumper. Reporter speculates it might mean kid crossed in front of vehicle.

So I have to play the what if game...

If the kid was driving down the road legally, lights on and the cop hit him then I would imagine "Driving too fast for conditions" would be easy to prove because someone died because he couldn't stop or evade in time. Here in Texas, the speed limit can be irrelevant. If you are driving 40 in a 60 and the roads are iced and you lose control.. you're at fault. So even at 50mph in a 45mph zone, if you are over driving your headlights, that's on you.  It's tragic, the cop certainly didn't intend to run over a kid going to school but when someone dies over your mistake, then the consequences are harsh.

If the kid for whatever reason, veered into his lane at a time where it would not allow a reasonable person to avoid hitting him then that's not on the cop.     
Pretty much my thinking.

240s arguments is that it doesnt matter what the kid did, whether he pulled in front, or whether he pulled into the road and stopped.... since the cop was speedig, even 5 over, hes automatically guilty.

I cant see that sticking.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: dario73 on August 29, 2014, 08:44:19 AM
If the kid was black then it was his fault according to getbig experts.

Did the kid rob a store and assault the police officer? No? Then it wasn't his fault.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Agnostic007 on August 29, 2014, 08:46:40 AM
yes he left markings on the road.  That day, reporters said skid marks were 20 to 40 feet.  later, they said 30 feet.  They didn't release pics of the skid marks, so I dunno.  But they definitely said he locked the brakes and tried valiantly not to hit the kid.

Also, they let the cop work for a week after the accident, THEN they moved him to paid administrative work.   I can't imagine a person is mentally "right" to drive to work the next day on the same road he killed a kid a day earlier.  They waited a week to move him.  he was on active duty they next day, they said.

I support law enforcement in a big way.  But I dislike speeders greatly.  I drive a big ol car and I never speed.  Roads here are full of idiots and old people... i *need* to stay at 45mph because I have to be able to react to the morons on the road that come out of nowhere, brake suddenly, or are speeding on their own.    one ticket can be a few hundred bucks, not worth it to go 55 when I can go 45 and spend an extra few minutes listening to my "learn spanish" mp3s or review some Jack Johnson lyrics in my head as I drive.  

I see cops speed daily, and I admit, it makes my blood boil.  They don't give a shit, but they will stop us for the same thing, ruin our day, give tickets, beat our asses lol, etc.

I guess I see speeding as one of the only things where there's blatant abuse by lae enforcement in plain sight and nobody says anything. if a cop was smoking pot in his car, it'd be huge news.  if a cop was banging hooker in broud daylight, it'd be huge news.  But a cop can go 70 in a 45 on a daily basis and eh, it's only a half-ton vehicle doing 102 feet PER SECOND.   I dont get it.

Couldn't agree with your more on the speeding. I even get pissed when I see a cop not use their blinker to change lanes. We are supposed to set the example, which in my view means we drive like everyone is supposed to drive, otherwise we're hypocrites
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Var City on August 29, 2014, 08:48:08 AM
It was probably junior
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: 240 is Back on August 29, 2014, 08:48:27 AM
If the kid for whatever reason, veered into his lane at a time where it would not allow a reasonable person to avoid hitting him then that's not on the cop.    

dash cam would show that.   they all have them here.  

and the way local media has been on the police's side (blaming road conditions, citing all these new safety programs instead of talking about the speeding), I'm guessing if the dashcam showed the kid was at fault, it's all we would have heard about for the last week.  
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: 240 is Back on August 29, 2014, 08:49:56 AM
Pretty much my thinking.

240s arguments is that it doesnt matter what the kid did, whether he pulled in front, or whether he pulled into the road and stopped.... since the cop was speedig, even 5 over, hes automatically guilty.

I cant see that sticking.

That's what I thought... if a drunk driver hits a jaywalker, they charge the drunk, even if the dude was in the middle of the street. 

but your answer is, "it depends". 
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: calfzilla on August 29, 2014, 08:50:23 AM
There are 3 different levels of getting to an emergency call, code 1, code 2 and code 3.

Code 1 they only use the lights to go through intersections.

Code 2 they have the lights on the whole time.

Code 3 is they have lights and sirens on.

It depends on the type of emergency they are going to.

A few months ago I saw some cops rushing to a school shooting, I swear they were code 4!  Fuckers were moving.  :o
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Shockwave on August 29, 2014, 08:52:30 AM
yes he left markings on the road.  That day, reporters said skid marks were 20 to 40 feet.  later, they said 30 feet.  They didn't release pics of the skid marks, so I dunno.  But they definitely said he locked the brakes and tried valiantly not to hit the kid.

Also, they let the cop work for a week after the accident, THEN they moved him to paid administrative work.   I can't imagine a person is mentally "right" to drive to work the next day on the same road he killed a kid a day earlier.  They waited a week to move him.  he was on active duty they next day, they said.

I support law enforcement in a big way.  But I dislike speeders greatly.  I drive a big ol car and I never speed.  Roads here are full of idiots and old people... i *need* to stay at 45mph because I have to be able to react to the morons on the road that come out of nowhere, brake suddenly, or are speeding on their own.    one ticket can be a few hundred bucks, not worth it to go 55 when I can go 45 and spend an extra few minutes listening to my "learn spanish" mp3s or review some Jack Johnson lyrics in my head as I drive.  

I see cops speed daily, and I admit, it makes my blood boil.  They don't give a shit, but they will stop us for the same thing, ruin our day, give tickets, beat our asses lol, etc.

I guess I see speeding as one of the only things where there's blatant abuse by lae enforcement in plain sight and nobody says anything. if a cop was smoking pot in his car, it'd be huge news.  if a cop was banging hooker in broud daylight, it'd be huge news.  But a cop can go 70 in a 45 on a daily basis and eh, it's only a half-ton vehicle doing 102 feet PER SECOND.   I dont get it.
My experience has been cops wont pull you over for anything less than 10mph over, which i feel is usually a comfortable cushion.

I dont get people who freak out when someone wants to drive faster than they do. Its one thing when someone is really driving recklessly and endangering people.. but if someone is going 52 and you want to sit at 45, let them go around you and on their merry way. (Not necessarily you 240)

We have people up here all the time that will aggressively try and block people who want to go a little faster than the flow of traffic and its fucking dangerous (usually these people are impeding traffic and going under the limit anyways)...

Its just more seattle liberal attitude of "you should drive how i want you to drive and if you dont, ill make you do it".... i cant count the number of accidents ive seen caused by drivers going slower than the flow of traffic and slamming their brakes evertime anyone blinks at them funny.

I almost find 'defensive' drivers more dangerus tha  speeders because theyre constantly reacting to everything around them, which put everyone behind them in a dangerous position, rather than just flowing with traffic
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: dario73 on August 29, 2014, 08:54:05 AM
If the kid was black then it was his fault according to getbig experts.

http://madworldnews.com/details-michael-brown-record
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: _bruce_ on August 29, 2014, 08:57:13 AM
Amerigga
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Shockwave on August 29, 2014, 08:58:45 AM
Amerigga
Lolololololol
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on August 29, 2014, 09:03:29 AM
Where I live, a 45mph speed limit was only 5mph lower than what the highway/Freeway speed limit was here (50mph) Which is now upped to 55mph. So basically the kid is riding his bike on an "Almost" freeway speeds. The whole situation is a recipe for disaster...
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: calfzilla on August 29, 2014, 09:04:15 AM
Kid probably wasn't gonna write Beethoven's 9th.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Archer77 on August 29, 2014, 09:06:42 AM
http://madworldnews.com/details-michael-brown-record

I'm in a wait and see mode on this information
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: The Abdominal Snoman on August 29, 2014, 09:08:27 AM
Not much room on this roadway to react to a bike when cars are going 45-50mph. It's not like the bike is staying in a straight line. Amazed more people don't die on roads like this...

(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=547718.0;attach=576671;image)
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: CT_Muscle on August 29, 2014, 09:15:59 AM
In SW Florida, this is a huge hotbutton issue. 

Basically, cop is driving "at least" 50 mph in a 45 mph limit zone.  He runs over kid who is legally in the road, but may not have had lights on his bike (family said he had reflectors, but who knows).   He kills kid with his car.

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/26399611/report-released-on-deputy-involved-crash-that-killed-cape-teen

So the Q is - for cops or for anyone - if you are speeding, and it's proven (as it is here with the car chip metrics), are  you at fault?  Is this cop looking at jail time?  Fired from police dept, etc? 

People are HUGELY divided here... some say "Hey, everyone speeds".   Other say "kid was 15, driving to school, cop broke law, lock him up".   What is the legal precedent here?  (Note: "At Least" wording may mean cop was going faster - they do speed bigtime on that street).

thats nothing....this cop was racing another cop going over 70 mph in a 40 mph zone

http://www.ctpost.com/default/article/Video-of-fatal-crash-that-killed-two-teens-255258.php
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: 240 is Back on August 29, 2014, 09:22:04 AM
Its just more seattle liberal attitude of "you should drive how i want you to drive and if you dont, ill make you do it"....

From what i've seen.... it's the elderly (repubs) that observe the speed limit. 

it's the young (kids and 20-somethings) that drive like idiots.  They're obama voters.

Republicans FOLLOW the law.  Like speed limits.

Worthless libs feel entitled and don't think the law applies to them  ;D
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Royalty on August 29, 2014, 09:48:50 AM
If the cop was speeding.... The kid should've been able to hear the engine. I go for walks at 6AM, I can hear approaching cars that are going @ 25mph. I can absolutely hear cars that are going 45-55mph

I bet the cop was speeding. And it was dark. And the kid was wearing headphones.

And I bet the cop wasn't paying full attention to the road.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Royalty on August 29, 2014, 09:50:09 AM
The driver is responsible for operating his vehicle.  Doesn't matter what his profession is.  Being that he's a cop, his cell phone record probably lists a  call to the 16 year old counter girl at the local deli prior to his killing the child on the bike. The hero was probably on his way there and not paying attention to the surroundings....the scumbag.

The child's family should expect the cop to be cleared of any wrongdoing.  They should then pursue an alternate form of justice.

Sounds like you are suggesting murder.... again.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Shockwave on August 29, 2014, 10:14:22 AM
From what i've seen.... it's the elderly (repubs) that observe the speed limit. 

it's the young (kids and 20-somethings) that drive like idiots.  They're obama voters.

Republicans FOLLOW the law.  Like speed limits.

Worthless libs feel entitled and don't think the law applies to them  ;D
Not here its not. They have an "youll drive how i say" attitude to go along with their "obama/biden" stickers.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: el numero uno on August 29, 2014, 10:15:21 AM
Did the kid rob a store and assault the police officer? No? Then it wasn't his fault.

Fat bastard was a thug and the shooting may be justified but from the very beginning some getbiggers claimed it was his fault, blah blah, even with no evidence at that point. Cops are usually pieces of shit too, it's not like they're heroes or something.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Radical Plato on August 29, 2014, 10:26:58 AM

Thats how children look at things, the reality is everything is shades of gray.... there is no black/white in the real world.
You do realise what you stated is a paradox, if what you said is true, then your statement contains shades of grey and may also be viewed as untrue.  Not only this, there are incontrovertible facts in life that could be construed as either black or white with no shades of grey, like the consistency of gravity for instance or the speed of light.  So the reality is, some things have shades of grey and some things don't.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Shockwave on August 29, 2014, 10:31:33 AM
You do realise what you stated is a paradox, if what you said is true, then your statement contains shades of grey and may also be viewed as untrue.  Not only this, there are incontrovertible facts in life that could be construed as either black or white with no shades of grey, like the consistency of gravity for instance or the speed of light.  So the reality is, some things have shades of grey and some things don't.
Well yes, obviously hard facts and things like physics are different... im talking about judging actions based on morality.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Radical Plato on August 29, 2014, 10:35:26 AM
Well yes, obviously hard facts and things like physics are different... im talking about judging actions based on morality.
You should read the Sam Harris book 'The Moral Landscape' where he challenges the concept of moral relativism. In it, he promotes a science of morality and argues that many thinkers have long confused the relationship between morality, facts, and science. He aims to carve a third path between secularists who say morality is subjective (e.g. moral relativists), and religionists who say that morality is given by God and scripture. Harris contends that the only moral framework worth talking about is one where "morally good" things pertain to increases in the "well-being of conscious creatures". He then argues that, problems with philosophy of science and reason in general notwithstanding, 'moral questions' will have objectively right and wrong answers which are grounded in empirical facts about what causes people to flourish.

Challenging the age-old philosophical notion that we can never get an 'ought' from an 'is', Harris argues that moral questions are best pursued using, not just philosophy, but the methods of science. Thus, "science can determine human values" translates to "science can tell us which values lead to human flourishing". It is in this sense that Harris advocates that scientists begin conversations about a normative science of "morality"

Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: efirkey on August 29, 2014, 10:37:54 AM
Was the sun an issue?  it seems like it could have been at this time of day.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Nails on August 29, 2014, 10:39:12 AM
(http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/cyclists_9288aa_1750926.gif)
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: calfzilla on August 29, 2014, 10:49:22 AM
(http://static.fjcdn.com/gifs/cyclists_9288aa_1750926.gif)

Primemuscle at the wheel again.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: 240 is Back on August 29, 2014, 10:51:49 AM
Not here its not. They have an "youll drive how i say" attitude to go along with their "obama/biden" stickers.

I don't get how ENFORCING EXISTING LAW is somehow wrong, somehow controlling.  It's the fcking law.  Repubs support it, lawbreaking dems don't.   

i guess conservative principles like abiding by the law can be used when convenient.

I suppose when some liberal decides it's cool to sell crack to school children, some mean ol' Repub will say "you won't sell drugs, as I say". 
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Shockwave on August 29, 2014, 11:01:24 AM
I don't get how ENFORCING EXISTING LAW is somehow wrong, somehow controlling.  It's the fcking law.  Repubs support it, lawbreaking dems don't.   

i guess conservative principles like abiding by the law can be used when convenient.

I suppose when some liberal decides it's cool to sell crack to school children, some mean ol' Repub will say "you won't sell drugs, as I say". 
Boy, youre sure running off into lala land with this one. I personally know far more liberals who scream about the law than conservatives i know...

And its because they whole heartrdly believe that the laws big brother enacts are for your protecton and you have to follow big brother and you dont get a choice in how you love your life.

I choose to speed up to a point i feel is safe and that wont get me in trouble... usually 5-7mph over the lomit on the freeway. I have 2 tickets in my life, both from going 15mph over in a hurry to get somewhere. I make this choice as a citizen, capable of choosing how i love my life. If a police officer chooses to call me on it, says im being dangerous, ill take the ticket and wont complain because i chose to break the rules.

I drive by cops regularly doing 5-7 over. They dont care. Why? Becaude im not endangering anyone, which is really what the laws are supposed to be about. Theyre designed for protection, not for blind adherence because 'its the law dammit', although many people believe that and good for them.

Im not one of those.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: 240 is Back on August 29, 2014, 11:08:36 AM
I choose to speed up to a point i feel is safe and that wont get me in trouble

I make this choice as a citizen, capable of choosing how i love my life. If a police officer chooses to call me on it, says im being dangerous, ill take the ticket and wont complain because i chose to break the rules.

Theyre designed for protection, not for blind adherence because 'its the law dammit', although many people believe that and good for them.

Reminds me of a lot of libs out there... who fix elections because "i'm not endangering anyone". 
They steal because "it doesn't hurt anyone".
They punch old people because "it's how I enjoy my life"
They grow thousands of pot plants because "its not hurting anyone"
They support illegals crossing border because it's an "act of love"

Can't just pick and choose when the law is convenient.  Like the libs, you're a lawbreaker.  You have different ways of justifying it.   You're okay with using a vehicle in an illegal manner.  So you can't complain if obama uses a drone to bomb american cities or uses US money to fund overseas groups.  After all, he's choosing to break the law "to a point".

More felons are democrats:
http://soundpolitics.com/archives/004473.html
Study: Most Convicts Vote Democrat - Breitbart
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: _bruce_ on August 29, 2014, 11:13:31 AM
Primemuscle at the wheel again.

After losing yet another discussion on getbig  :D
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Shockwave on August 29, 2014, 11:19:43 AM
Reminds me of a lot of libs out there... who fix elections because "i'm not endangering anyone". 
They steal because "it doesn't hurt anyone".
They punch old people because "it's how I enjoy my life"
They grow thousands of pot plants because "its not hurting anyone"
They support illegals crossing border because it's an "act of love"

Can't just pick and choose when the law is convenient.  Like the libs, you're a lawbreaker.  You have different ways of justifying it.   You're okay with using a vehicle in an illegal manner.  So you can't complain if obama uses a drone to bomb american cities or uses US money to fund overseas groups.  After all, he's choosing to break the law "to a point".

More felons are democrats:
http://soundpolitics.com/archives/004473.html
Study: Most Convicts Vote Democrat - Breitbart
Not in any way the same thing, but nice try.

Stealing hurts people
Punching ladies in the face hurts people
Fixing elections absolutely disenfranchise people.
Letting illegals in hurts people on many level.

And ill guarantee you that if someone followed you for a day, youd break a dozen laws without even thinking about it, and youd feel the same way.

You do realize its YOUR attitude that throws you in with hardcore extremists on both sides, right?
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: 240 is Back on August 29, 2014, 11:24:17 AM
Stealing hurts people
Punching ladies in the face hurts people
Fixing elections absolutely disenfranchise people.
Letting illegals in hurts people on many level.

Speeding doesn't endanger people? 
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Shockwave on August 29, 2014, 11:38:00 AM
Speeding doesn't endanger people?  
Yes and no. 15-20 over the flow of traffic? Debatable. A few mph? Next to zero. Whos to say that the 50mph limit is the proper one? Who decided it? How was it decided? What scientific data produced that was the optimal speed to keep people safe? (It wasnt btw, they decided tbat during the cash crunch in the 80s because a study said goig 50 reduced mpg by a sig percentage)

Are you going to bitch about how dangerous drivers going under the speed limit are?  Theyre not breaking the law, so is that ok to you, for someone to go 30 in a 50? Even though cars have to dodge them, they can cause wrecks getting on the freeway, etc?

But because someone goes faster than the limit, well, dammit, hes endangering people, because, well, the limit!!

I know youre just trying to troll because, well, you were the guy patting himself on the back for helping get Obama elected in 08, but this is asinine and you know it.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: 240 is Back on August 29, 2014, 11:50:42 AM
Yes and no. 15-20 over the flow of traffic? Debatable. A few mph? Next to zero. Whos to say that the 50mph limit is the proper one? Who decided it? How was it decided?

http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speedmgt/ref_mats/fhwasa12004/
They actally put a great deal of thinking, research, science into setting speed limits.  you have to remember most people on the road aren't bright, 20/30 somethings such as us.  If you let 16 year old newbs and 90 year old grannies drive 80 mph, it's gonna be a bad day lol.

Statistically, the faster you go, the more accidents there will be.  Tough to really argue that.  You can't say that reaction/stopping time doesn't increase as the vehicle speed increases.  That's just science and physics at work. 

And if this case had anything to do with going UNDER the limit, then yes, we'd talk about that.  But that's not in play here. 

I think we're at the point where we're saying "going faster isn't more dangerous" - I think we should step back and really look at the debate.  I'm saying speeding is, by definition, breaking the law.  You're saying it's okay to break the law "a little".  I showed why it's dangerous. 
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Shockwave on August 29, 2014, 12:07:23 PM
http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/speedmgt/ref_mats/fhwasa12004/
They actally put a great deal of thinking, research, science into setting speed limits.  you have to remember most people on the road aren't bright, 20/30 somethings such as us.  If you let 16 year old newbs and 90 year old grannies drive 80 mph, it's gonna be a bad day lol.

Statistically, the faster you go, the more accidents there will be.  Tough to really argue that.  You can't say that reaction/stopping time doesn't increase as the vehicle speed increases.  That's just science and physics at work. 

And if this case had anything to do with going UNDER the limit, then yes, we'd talk about that.  But that's not in play here. 

I think we're at the point where we're saying "going faster isn't more dangerous" - I think we should step back and really look at the debate.  I'm saying speeding is, by definition, breaking the law.  You're saying it's okay to break the law "a little".  I showed why it's dangerous. 
My point is that there IS a safe zone where its not really endangering anyone, and its clearly doesnt bother the officers that enforce the laws, as they dont seem to care when you go by their radar trap at 10 over.

Also, that its literally impssible for you to live what you preach.

Your 'its the law, i dont break laws' soapbox mentality automatically makes you a joke, because its literally impossible for you to not go about your day breaking laws of some form.

And by your own words, 'if your ok breaking one law, you have to be ok breaking them all', means that youve set yourself up. You are that guy that you rail against, but either you dont realize it or you wont accept it. Unless of course you think that accidently stealing that pen from the bank is no big deal......

So either youre ignorant, or incredibly arrogant, and both ways a hypocrit of the highest order.....

take your pick.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: 240 is Back on August 29, 2014, 01:28:54 PM
My point is that there IS a safe zone where its not really endangering anyone, and its clearly doesnt bother the officers that enforce the laws, as they dont seem to care when you go by their radar trap at 10 over.

This is a myth.   They can give you tickets for 1 mile over the limit, and there are some famous examples of prick cops that do exactly that.  This might be your experience, but it's not the law.

http://www.dmv.org/articles/traffic-ticket-myths/
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Shockwave on August 29, 2014, 01:31:47 PM
This is a myth.   They can give you tickets for 1 mile over the limit, and there are some famous examples of prick cops that do exactly that.  This might be your experience, but it's not the law.

http://www.dmv.org/articles/traffic-ticket-myths/
Well, yeah, i never said it was the law, duh.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Moontrane on August 29, 2014, 01:56:08 PM
Kid was hit by cop around 6:15 am.  it was a little dark there.  Some say that means the cop should have been MORE cautious.  First week of school.  Kid was driving his bike.  There were 30 to 40 feet of skid mark where the cop TRIED to avoid hitting kid.  Swerved too.  Bike was well under cop car, kid was launched pretty far.  Violent crash.  

They have 100% proof the cop was speeding, although they haven't said what "at least 50 mph" means.  I guess what I'm asking is, if the kid was doing everything legal - riding his bike with a reflector on a public road where no sidewalks available - And the cop was 100% proven to be speeding - What will the likely response be?

Will cop be charged/fired?   I'm just curious if there's a precedent for this.  Most estimate he was actually going 60-ish, based upon the crazy skid marks and violence of crash... and cops FLY thru that area usually.  That actual number will be released later - they just made it clear he WAS speeding and emphasized "at least".  So *IF* it ends up being 50 or 60 mph... and he killed a 15 year old kid... does that cop see charges?

The cop car actually skidded?  Wasn't it equipped with ABS?  From the limited pix I saw, the "skid" mark was from the bike being trapped under the left front wheel, thus causing the bike tires, etc, to leave a trail.  :'(

Pls correct me if I'm mistaken.  ???
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Moontrane on August 29, 2014, 02:02:25 PM
Sounds like you are suggesting murder.... again.

There's an awful case in SoCA involving a deputy who struck and killed a bicyclist while typing and driving.  No charges.

"Since Wood was acting within the course and scope of his duties when he began to type his response, under Vehicle Code section 23123.5, he acted lawfully.”

http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20140827/in-calabasas-death-of-cyclist-milton-olin-no-charges-against-typing-deputy (http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20140827/in-calabasas-death-of-cyclist-milton-olin-no-charges-against-typing-deputy)
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: 240 is Back on August 29, 2014, 02:05:48 PM
I haven't seen pics of the skid marks.  they were trying to estimate it on the next, but police wouldn't let them near, so they had to walk thru canals and take pics from roofs lol.  So I dunno there.  They estimated them as 20 to 40 but i haven't seen them.   They haven't released much info.  This detail about the speeding was the first detail since the poor kid died.

Cops are everywhere in that area, watching for speeders, which I guess is good. 
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Disgusted on August 29, 2014, 02:40:55 PM
Where's the one about the cop who was sending an email while driving and hit a older gentleman on his bike? No charges since the officer was performing a duty related email.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Voice of Doom on August 29, 2014, 02:42:10 PM
dash cam would show that.   they all have them here.  

and the way local media has been on the police's side (blaming road conditions, citing all these new safety programs instead of talking about the speeding), I'm guessing if the dashcam showed the kid was at fault, it's all we would have heard about for the last week.  

The media's role is not to provide 'information' but to reinforce the infallibility of those in authority...especially 'state sanctioned' authority when possible.  The system will permit minor changes but won't tolerate questioning of the inherent right of government control.  The media fulfills its part of the script by manufacturing consent of the masses (Chomsky).  Incidents like these that would demonstrate equality of the law to government agents are carefully monitored for the affect it has on its subjects people.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Deacon Jeschin on August 29, 2014, 03:03:56 PM
Sounds like you are suggesting murder.... again.

And you are wrong.......again.

Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: 240 is Back on August 31, 2014, 05:02:08 AM
Well, yeah, i never said it was the law, duh.

bottom line... police are there to enforce the law.  why in the world should I drive speed limit when officer friendly can zoom around off duty at 15 mph over the limit?
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Tapeworm on August 31, 2014, 09:08:34 AM
Both are.  You have to be trusting to the point of foolishness imo ride a pedal bike on a road.  All it takes is one sleepy dickhead fiddling with the radio or texting his gf and you're history.

But mostly the driver.  Being a cop has no bearing.  He drove into/over something/someone he wasn't supposed to.  That's the definition of not being in control of the vehicle.  If you plowed someone under you'd be in the clink blowing into tubes and having blood samples taken and spending your life's savings on lawyers and bail. You damn sure wouldn't be at work the next day.

Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Shockwave on August 31, 2014, 09:17:40 AM
bottom line... police are there to enforce the law.  why in the world should I drive speed limit when officer friendly can zoom around off duty at 15 mph over the limit?
I wasn't arguing with you about police hypocrisy, I was originally making a point about why drivers freak the fuck out and get upset when someone wants to drive faster than they do. We literally have guys in Washington who will pull into the fast lane and try and slow people down (when the flow of traffic is right at the limit or above), and they'll get !ad and flip people off when they pass them.

They make it their job to try and force people to drive how they want instead of just letting them go around. Like I said, more Seattle liberal "you should think/live/drive how I feel you should think/live/drive, and if you disagree, fuck you I'll force you to think/live/drive how I think you should, because I know best"
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Dr.J on August 31, 2014, 11:53:54 PM
There are 3 different levels of getting to an emergency call, code 1, code 2 and code 3.

Code 1 they only use the lights to go through intersections.

Code 2 they have the lights on the whole time.

Code 3 is they have lights and sirens on.

It depends on the type of emergency they are going to.

What state is this?
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: calfzilla on September 01, 2014, 12:44:09 AM
What state is this?

I believe it's standard for most places.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Dr.J on September 01, 2014, 11:12:02 AM
(http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/files/library/cop_on_phone.jpg)

(http://www.crazyauntpurl.com/images/blog/cop-on-phone.jpg)


(http://2fm9xz2drvqemrbu.zippykid.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/cop-on-phone-while-driving.jpg)


(http://www.vosizneias.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/2087051169_b6fcb25059.jpg)

(http://www.disclosurenewsonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/s-100-10.jpg)



News flash....it is legal for police officers to be on their cell phones if it is regarding work. 
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Dr.J on September 01, 2014, 11:19:11 AM
I believe it's standard for most places.

Not California.   They can only respond code 3, with light (red light to the front) and sirens. All other codes (1,2) are follow all road laws, no light no sirens.  Policy dictates this in all departments as well. Code 3 must also be conducted in a non negligent manner.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Dr.J on September 01, 2014, 11:24:57 AM
The "exempt" plate on government vehicles exempts them from CVC (California Vehicle Code). You may also take note that alot of police officers do not wear their seat belts, per the CVC they do not have to, however, departmental policy dictate otherwise.  But nothing in the CVC or laws exempt them from negligence.

NOW YOU KNOW

 ;D
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Dr.J on September 01, 2014, 11:27:12 AM
There's an awful case in SoCA involving a deputy who struck and killed a bicyclist while typing and driving.  No charges.

"Since Wood was acting within the course and scope of his duties when he began to type his response, under Vehicle Code section 23123.5, he acted lawfully.”

http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20140827/in-calabasas-death-of-cyclist-milton-olin-no-charges-against-typing-deputy (http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/20140827/in-calabasas-death-of-cyclist-milton-olin-no-charges-against-typing-deputy)

This Deputy may still be liable on a civil case.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Dr.J on September 01, 2014, 11:44:36 PM
 Be assured there will be multiple investigations conducted.
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: 240 is Back on October 18, 2014, 10:02:17 AM
They determined the cop was speeding and using his laptop, both violations.

They gave him a "careless driving" ticket.   He's been back on the force since a few days after the wreck.

People are outraged locally... he killed a 15 year old riding his bike to school... playing on a computer (policy of LSCO is to pull over to use, always) while speeding (at rates of "at least 50 in a 45mph").

He got a careless driving ticket.   No reckless, no manslaughter, no anything.  The same thing we'd get for drifting 2 lanes to turn without signaling, or eating a burger while driving (and hitting nobody).   Careless driving.  A ticket.  And they wait til friday PM news dump to release it.


www.nbc-2.com
Title: Re: Speeding cop kills kid on bike... who is at fault?
Post by: Tapeworm on October 18, 2014, 10:45:36 AM
They determined the cop was speeding and using his laptop, both violations.

They gave him a "careless driving" ticket.   He's been back on the force since a few days after the wreck.

People are outraged locally... he killed a 15 year old riding his bike to school... playing on a computer (policy of LSCO is to pull over to use, always) while speeding (at rates of "at least 50 in a 45mph").

He got a careless driving ticket.   No reckless, no manslaughter, no anything.  The same thing we'd get for drifting 2 lanes to turn without signaling, or eating a burger while driving (and hitting nobody).   Careless driving.  A ticket.  And they wait til friday PM news dump to release it.


www.nbc-2.com

Not to be a cold-blooded socio but this is the kind of outrageous miscarriage of justice that a well spoken, middle-aged lifter could really exploit to springboard into local politics.  If one were so inclined.
Title: Re: Speeding cop on computer kills kid on bike... Gets a "careless driving" ticket
Post by: 240 is Back on October 18, 2014, 12:31:45 PM
Not to be a cold-blooded socio but this is the kind of outrageous miscarriage of justice that a well spoken, middle-aged lifter could really exploit to springboard into local politics.  If one were so inclined.

lol public office? 

That'd be a pay cut for most getbiggers :)
Title: Re: Speeding cop on computer kills kid on bike... Gets a "careless driving" ticket
Post by: 240 is Back on October 20, 2014, 02:20:33 PM
Police dept finally released the report.   Was supposed to come out, then they declined, then NBC2 raised a huge stink, so they released it.

COP ADMITTED he was drifting between lanes
COP ADMITTED he was speeding (how fast, we don't know, at least 50 in a 45)
COP ADMITTED he was adjusting brightness on laptop (against policy while driving), looked up, saw kid, cut wheel and hit him instantly.

COP ADMITTED he lit flares and waited, didn't go look for dead kid he launched 50 feet because he already knew he was dead.

www.nbc-2.com

And cop will receive ZERO discipline outside of a 'careless driving' ticket.
And cop will receive no punishment on job - he had a few days of desk duty and has been back on since.

HUNDREDS of pissed off comments on their page.  Dude is the most hated person in town.
Title: Re: Speeding cop on computer kills kid on bike... Gets a "careless driving" ticket
Post by: Sokolsky on October 20, 2014, 04:04:33 PM
That's all great and all. But won't change the fact the kid got hamburger'd.
Title: Re: Speeding cop on computer kills kid on bike... Gets a "careless driving" ticket
Post by: thebrink on October 30, 2014, 09:57:22 AM
Government foot soldiers are immune from prosecution in most cases tell us something we don't already know.

In before the "the kid shouldn't have gotten in the way of the police officer doing his job" poster ..
Title: Re: Speeding cop on computer kills kid on bike... Gets a "careless driving" ticket
Post by: 240 is Back on October 31, 2014, 09:40:14 AM
now the cop is in court.

he's FIGHTING the careless driving ticket.

unbelievable.  I'm sure he doesn't want to get sued for running over someone's kids, etc... but what a shitbag, what a dick move.  he's claiming it was not careless to speed while working on the computer. 

However, if I am on that road going 60 mph playing on my iPhone, he'll certainly give me a careless driving ticket, at best, and reckless driving at worst.

But hey, he's special.  Dick head.
Title: Re: Speeding cop on computer kills kid on bike... Gets a "careless driving" ticket
Post by: Moontrane on March 03, 2024, 03:46:28 PM
A judge cleared the deputy of any wrongdoing.  Department settled with the mother.

https://www.news-press.com/story/news/2016/12/28/settlement-sheriffs-office-reached-teens-bike-death/95913832/

Lee sheriff's office reaches settlement in teen's bike death

The family of a teen killed by a Lee County sheriff's deputy agreed to a $300,000 settlement.

The sheriff's office and deputy who hit the Cape Coral teen while he was bicycling to school will be of absolved of all responsibility.

The wrongful death suit was filed on behalf of Stephanie Diersing months after her son, Austin Dukette, 15, was killed.

Dukette, a Mariner High School freshman, was struck in August 2014 at Kismet Parkway West and Northwest Sixth Place.

No fine for Lee deputy in teen cyclist's death