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Getbig Main Boards => Gossip & Opinions => Topic started by: orion on October 18, 2014, 07:54:12 PM
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Okay Einsteins, what the best way to do them, some say let the dumbbell right down to the shoulder, and some say let it down just until your arm is parallel to the floor. Arm parallel means you can use more weight so I'm thinking it's an ego thing. I use the first method. What say the GB experts?
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Need cock pics in order to tailor dumbbell shoulder press for you.
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i actually prefer the arnold press.
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xeyQw
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I like to press them up in the air then lower them down
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Whichever way best suits your body mechanics, flexibility and injuries.
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Three inches above the shoulder involves the triceps for some 80percent of the workload.
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I'm pretty sure it doesn't matter.
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All the way down for me.
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i actually prefer the arnold press.
This or arms parallel to the floor if u plan on training for a very long time. Going really deep and behind the neck presses will tear your shoulders up over the years. Train smart, we didn't know all this over 30 yrs ago.
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Whichever way best suits your body mechanics, flexibility and injuries.
Nailed it 100% ^^^^
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Okay Einsteins, what the best way to do them, some say let the dumbbell right down to the shoulder, and some say let it down just until your arm is parallel to the floor. Arm parallel means you can use more weight so I'm thinking it's an ego thing. I use the first method. What say the GB experts?
i bring my my arms down until my upper arms are parallel to the floor and my forearms are 90* to my uppers. Any deeper and i start getting a weird pain/ripping sensation in my shoulder. I also stop just shy of lockout.
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Upper arms parallel to the ground if you want to stroke your ego and impress the clueless with massive weight. All the way down if you want to keep flexibility in your shoulders but then you can't be delusional about how much weight you can move.
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Try these...
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I used to do the full ROM thing until I hurt my left shoulder about 6 months ago, now I put a lot of thought into any overhead work. I've found that doing neutral grip military presses with a trap bar from pins set at about 3" above my shoulders works very well. Bring it down to the pins and pause (dead stop method) and back up.
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Upper arms parallel to the ground if you want to stroke your ego and impress the clueless with massive weight. All the way down if you want to keep flexibility in injure your shoulders but then you can't be delusional about how much weight you can move.
FIFY.
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Gte them up with spotters assistance then lower them 3 inches while screaming. That's what real men do.
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Okay Einsteins, what the best way to do them, some say let the dumbbell right down to the shoulder, and some say let it down just until your arm is parallel to the floor. Arm parallel means you can use more weight so I'm thinking it's an ego thing. I use the first method. What say the GB experts?
This or this : ..
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Upper arms parallel to the ground if you want to stroke your ego and impress the clueless with massive weight. All the way down if you want to keep flexibility in your shoulders but then you can't be delusional about how much weight you can move.
I dont give a shit about ego lifting, i do give a shit about tearing up my joints and results.
Going to parrallel drastically reduced the pain and mobility issues in my shoulders (left one in particular), i get better pumps using the same weight, and i see better results.
Fuck going down past parallel, it does nothing for me.
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I used to do the full ROM thing until I hurt my left shoulder about 6 months ago, now I put a lot of thought into any overhead work. I've found that doing neutral grip military presses with a trap bar from pins set at about 3" above my shoulders works very well. Bring it down to the pins and pause (dead stop method) and back up.
Yeah, that last few inches is brutal on the shoulders if you don't have great thoracic mobility which 99% of us don't
In fact most people are in no shape to safely overhead press anything never mind full rom with heavy weights
I do superslow with a plate a side on the hammer machine , one arm at a time, after chest and laterals. Ohp just isn't safe
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FIFY.
Wrong. What he posted is correct.
Upper arms parallel to the ground if you want to stroke your ego and impress the clueless with massive weight. All the way down if you want to keep flexibility in your shoulders but then you can't be delusional about how much weight you can move.
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Wrong. What he posted is correct.
Enjoy rehab.
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Enjoy rehab.
im with you, same here.
As an anecdote, ive often noticed the guys who lift with 'improper form' often have the best development, which makes me questiom the validity of the 'proper form nazis' when it comes to physique development....
Clearly it matters in competitive lifting where range of motion is judged, but when it comes to BB the guys who lift by the book never seem to attain the same level as the guys who modify the form best for their bodies.
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I dont give a shit about ego lifting, i do give a shit about tearing up my joints and results.
Going to parrallel drastically reduced the pain and mobility issues in my shoulders (left one in particular), i get better pumps using the same weight, and i see better results.
Fuck going down past parallel, it does nothing for me.
You think Coach would agree with this. U are 100% correct. Wait until they get a shoulder injury, u can get away with anything when u are young. Look at all of the older BB who can't do any pressing movements anymore, this is why a lot of them have shitty triceps now.
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Okay Einsteins, what the best way to do them, some say let the dumbbell right down to the shoulder, and some say let it down just until your arm is parallel to the floor. Arm parallel means you can use more weight so I'm thinking it's an ego thing. I use the first method. What say the GB experts?
Dumbbell Shoulder Press is complete bullshit the way most people do them. Most people use a bench with a backing and the press their back so hard against the chair as that is the only way to get the weight up. They use DBs they should not be handling at all and most will do half reps. Even if they don`t do half reps that pressure against the chair is taking emphasis off the shoulders.
Best way to do them is seating with no backing behind you. Just on a flat bench. You can`t cheat and its all shoulders. The other is just complete bullshit. Also, bring them all they way down. The 90 degree parallel is for morons and you can do a ton of weight that way.
Also, another variation is do them standing keeping the legs locked.
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Yeah, that last few inches is brutal on the shoulders if you don't have great thoracic mobility which 99% of us don't
In fact most people are in no shape to safely overhead press anything never mind full rom with heavy weights
I do superslow with a plate a side on the hammer machine , one arm at a time, after chest and laterals. Ohp just isn't safe
Took me a long time to come to terms with the fact overhead pressing is no good for shoulder health, and I was a very strong/strict oh presser
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Dumbbell Shoulder Press is complete bullshit the way most people do them. Most people use a bench with a backing and the press their back so hard against the chair as that is the only way to get the weight up. They use DBs they should not be handling at all and most will do half reps. Even if they don`t do half reps that pressure against the chair is taking emphasis off the shoulders.
Best way to do them is seating with no backing behind you. Just on a flat bench. You can`t cheat and its all shoulders. The other is just complete bullshit. Also, bring them all they way down. The 90 degree parallel is for morons and you can do a ton of weight that way.
Also, another variation is do them standing keeping the legs locked.
gotta disagree man, going down past parallel, even dropping the weights down, did nothing but aggravate my shoulders and cause me pain. I found same or better results with no pain going to parallel.
I see no tangible benefis for going past and ive seen no good arguments so far about what you actually gain going past parallel.
Taking away the bench backing i could see making a difference, but no ones actually said what you GAIN from going down thise extra 3" besides shoulder pain.
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Took me a long time to come to terms with the fact overhead pressing is no good for shoulder health, and I was a very strong/strict oh presser
Overhead presses with a barbell can be bad for rotator cuffs, but dumbbell presses are fine.
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Yeah I've had major rotator cuff pain but I warm up really good and dumbbell press seems fine. I can't tell you how many times I've seen some twink just walk in grab the fifties and and grunt out six hard reps, no warmup or nothing. I've mentioned it to a few guys but now I just don't bother.
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Overhead presses with a barbell can be bad for rotator cuffs, but dumbbell presses are fine.
There fine for a period of time, then you slowly fuck your shoulders right up..... I havnt pressed overhead for a good few yr now and I rarely loose time with shoulder problems anymore
I read an article by phil herman?off pro muscle and he explained the mechanics beautifully, made the penny drop for me anyway
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I've found that doing these standing helps avoid the opportunity to ego lift. Good exercise and easy to execute if you workout at the gym or if you're lifting at home.
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There fine for a period of time, then you slowly fuck your shoulders right up..... I havnt pressed overhead for a good few yr now and I rarely loose time with shoulder problems anymore
I read an article by phil herman?off pro muscle and he explained the mechanics beautifully, made the penny drop for me anyway
I haven't had that issue. I only get rotator pain when military pressing. I do heavy (for me) dumbbell presses every week and I love it.
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The worse your shoulders are the more you may angle your arms inward.
I have to say that a fairly light weight tends to hit the shoulders pretty good.
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There fine for a period of time, then you slowly fuck your shoulders right up..... I havnt pressed overhead for a good few yr now and I rarely loose time with shoulder problems anymore
I read an article by phil herman?off pro muscle and he explained the mechanics beautifully, made the penny drop for me anyway
The delts are better hit with fully controlled, constant tension laterals anyway, pressing is mostly tris and front delts for the majority of people
Gave up shoulder pressing and dips last year while my shoulders still work, that sucked because I was also strong as shit on both lifts but the short lived ego boost from dipping 6 plates or pressing 120s overhead isn't worth needing shoulder surgery at 50
Now I use 20lb DBS and bands for laterals.. My shoulders look exactly the same they just don't hurt all the time
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you guys are a bunch of babies. my shoulder hurts, i cant do press that way. just do them
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Try these...
Thanx for the vid Donny. I think I will try them. Did a bunch just pressing air and damn I felt them.
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This thread is Getbig Classic. Guys with shoulder injuries say that THEY don't use full rom and they feel better. Then there is the invisible Google warriors that scream "full rom or you're a pussy!" At the top of their little lungs with pure Broscience as backup.
Mawse said it right: very, very few people have the thoracic mobility to do an OHP correct. Like 95%. And those folks should CONSIDER that it is they that might be the ego lifters here with they rom-or-nothing approach.
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This thread is Getbig Classic. Guys with shoulder injuries say that THEY don't use full rom and they feel better. Then there is the invisible Google warriors that scream "full rom or you're a pussy!" At the top of their little lungs with pure Broscience as backup.
Mawse said it right: very, very few people have the thoracic mobility to do an OHP correct. Like 95%. And those folks should CONSIDER that it is they that might be the ego lifters here with they rom-or-nothing approach.
I am certain that everyone can do a full ROM with a light enough weight.
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The delts are better hit with fully controlled, constant tension laterals anyway, pressing is mostly tris and front delts for the majority of people
Gave up shoulder pressing and dips last year while my shoulders still work, that sucked because I was also strong as shit on both lifts but the short lived ego boost from dipping 6 plates or pressing 120s overhead isn't worth needing shoulder surgery at 50
Now I use 20lb DBS and bands for laterals.. My shoulders look exactly the same they just don't hurt all the time
Not that old, but listened to enough people to make the decision that this is the best approach to take. Haven't done shoulder presses in years and have noticed no difference.
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Whichever way best suits your body mechanics, flexibility and injuries.
Gonna agree here. I haven't done a shoulder press in some time maybe over a year. Don't seem to suffer without them, hit front delts a lot and not competing anyway. They just caused more problems than anything.
I also never pressed any weight I could not lift myself. That meant 45kg dumbells or so was limit I never asked someone to help get dumbells in starting position. Im sure I could have pressed over 50kg for 8 reps or so but the risk of injury with seated dumbell raises is high enough without pushing it to limit.
For the record I dropped to bottom of rom ie beyond parallel when I did them.
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Dumbbell Shoulder Press is complete bullshit the way most people do them. Most people use a bench with a backing and the press their back so hard against the chair as that is the only way to get the weight up. They use DBs they should not be handling at all and most will do half reps. Even if they don`t do half reps that pressure against the chair is taking emphasis off the shoulders.
Best way to do them is seating with no backing behind you. Just on a flat bench. You can`t cheat and its all shoulders. The other is just complete bullshit. Also, bring them all they way down. The 90 degree parallel is for morons and you can do a ton of weight that way.
Also, another variation is do them standing keeping the legs locked.
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=553041.0 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=553041.0) ...Are you able to see the common factor between these? ;D
If you have to cry your piss poor development after years of training with your own advices, why are you so keen to give advises to others? To give they a chance to get their fair share of piss poor development? I mean what is the point? You have been training for years, still looking like novice, and you think you have something to share about the training methods? Only what you can say which would make some sense, would be: Do not do what I have done..
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I am certain that everyone can do a full ROM with a light enough weight.
Why would you even do an OHP with limited thoracic mobility. Usually with lack of thoracic mobility, you would lack external rotation. If you have shoulder pain, don't do an OHP movement.
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Why would you even do an OHP with limited thoracic mobility. Usually with lack of thoracic mobility, you would lack external rotation. If you have shoulder pain, don't do an OHP movement.
People with arthritic knee pain have trouble walking. What eases this kind of pain? Walking. Way to increase mobility is with stretching, lots and lots of warmup and going light. Dumbell press safer than barbell press.
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People with arthritic knee pain have trouble walking. What eases this kind of pain? Walking. Way to increase mobility is with stretching, lots and lots of warmup and going light. Dumbell press safer than barbell press.
Also gh helps.
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People with arthritic knee pain have trouble walking. What eases this kind of pain? Walking. Way to increase mobility is with stretching, lots and lots of warmup and going light. Dumbell press safer than barbell press.
??? That scenario is irrelevant to shoulder pain. If you have shoulder pain and can't identify the cause of the pain, you stay away from any type of overhead pressing movement.
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This or arms parallel to the floor if u plan on training for a very long time. Going really deep and behind the neck presses will tear your shoulders up over the years. Train smart, we didn't know all this over 30 yrs ago.
No necessarily.
54 no shoulder problems & still do press behind neck.
Genetics or exercise form.??
I don't know, never had any probs with them.
Though I have always warmed up & a big believer in flexibility work.
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Dumbbell Shoulder Press is complete bullshit the way most people do them. Most people use a bench with a backing and the press their back so hard against the chair as that is the only way to get the weight up. They use DBs they should not be handling at all and most will do half reps. Even if they don`t do half reps that pressure against the chair is taking emphasis off the shoulders.
Best way to do them is seating with no backing behind you. Just on a flat bench. You can`t cheat and its all shoulders. The other is just complete bullshit. Also, bring them all they way down. The 90 degree parallel is for morons and you can do a ton of weight that way.
Also, another variation is do them standing keeping the legs locked.
standing is better as you have to pay more attention to form as well as developing balance
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http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=553041.0 (http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=553041.0) ...Are you able to see the common factor between these? ;D
If you have to cry your piss poor development after years of training with your own advices, why are you so keen to give advises to others? To give they a chance to get their fair share of piss poor development? I mean what is the point? You have been training for years, still looking like novice, and you think you have something to share about the training methods? Only what you can say which would make some sense, would be: Do not do what I have done..
::)
Piss poor? My arms and shoulders are way larger than yours and stronger. You look like shit. Hope this helps.
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No necessarily.
54 no shoulder problems & still do press behind neck.
Genetics or exercise form.??
I don't know, never had any probs with them.
Though I have always warmed up & a big believer in flexibility work.
[/quote Glad to hear that for you. I train a lot of guys over 60 and 70 yrs old. Let me know how u are doing in another 20 years. I hope u don't need a shoulder replacement, they are no fun.
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??? That scenario is irrelevant to shoulder pain. If you have shoulder pain and can't identify the cause of the pain, you stay away from any type of overhead pressing movement.
I do have shoulder pain caused by benching injury from years ago, which is how most lifters damage their shoulders. However stretching and good warmups have help immensely. I still do overhead dumbells and smith press without too much problems. If I avoided every exercise that caused me pain I would never lift. Sometimes you got too suck it up.
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ive had a shoulder injury from 3 decades of going all the way down to my traps on behind the neck presses,man i got away with it up to about a year ago then it was hell.couldnt do no upper body at all for months on end
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ive had a shoulder injury from 3 decades of going all the way down to my traps on behind the neck presses,man i got away with it up to about a year ago then it was hell.couldnt do no upper body at all for months on end
I know a Trainer in the Gym where i work who does them regularly on the smith machine. Shows them to the Kids in the Gym. I tell them not to do them. The Trainer in question is 20 years behind in his thinking.. not surprising he is ex DDR East German. most i have met at my age (48) are like this. He gets away with it but some of the young skinny kids will not.
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i do front shoulder presses now on smith some days,i go up to 275 for 6-8 and then back to 225 for sets of 12, believe it or not in the 90,s i was doing almost 245 free weight behind the neck presses for 8 reps.i was always strong on pushing movement but alot weaker on shit like rowing,dont know why but thats the way it is. yesterday for chest i did 5 sets with the 100lb dumbells for sets of 20 on chest, i bet a guy 20 bucks cause he said how many u going for i said 20 n he laughed,i said u wanna bet n i won 20 bucks.i went up to 150lb dumbells for 6 reps,i got it on camera
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i do front shoulder presses now on smith some days,i go up to 275 for 6-8 and then back to 225 for sets of 12, believe it or not in the 90,s i was doing almost 245 free weight behind the neck presses for 8 reps.i was always strong on pushing movement but alot weaker on shit like rowing,dont know why but thats the way it is. yesterday for chest i did 5 sets with the 100lb dumbells for sets of 20 on chest, i bet a guy 20 bucks cause he said how many u going for i said 20 n he laughed,i said u wanna bet n i won 20 bucks.i went up to 150lb dumbells for 6 reps,i got it on camera
some people are flexible and robust i am not in the shoulder region. Barbell Military press i have no problem. Everyone is different i am stronger in rowing than pressing.
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presses to me are pretty much all front delt
no way you are hitting the leteral and posterior head properly with presses
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presses to me are pretty much all front delt
no way you are hitting the leteral and posterior head properly with presses
I think pre exhaust is perfect for shoulders. Or a tri set which i do. I start with front raises then side,Rear.. pressing i do after this. Sure my weight is lower but it saves my shoulders. The shoulders do not need massive weights in my opinion. Chest training hits them enough..Parallel Bar dips are Tops. The Rear delts get hit with back work. If rear delts are a weak point do bent over rows but at shoulder/upper back area. you can use more weight than with DB rear raises.
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Piss poor? My arms and shoulders are way larger than yours and stronger. You look like shit. Hope this helps.
Read your own words from your own thread. No development after 8 years of training, and you have pictures to prove it. On the other hand, you don't know shit about me, because I don't need prove anything to anybody, so just shut the fuck up.
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Read your own words from your own thread. No development after 8 years of training, and you have pictures to prove it. On the other hand, you don't know shit about me, because I don't need prove anything to anybody, so just shut the fuck up.
Oh, but I do Mr. Ropo, but I do....
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I think pre exhaust is perfect for shoulders. Or a tri set which i do. I start with front raises then side,Rear.. pressing i do after this. Sure my weight is lower but it saves my shoulders. The shoulders do not need massive weights in my opinion. Chest training hits them enough..Parallel Bar dips are Tops. The Rear delts get hit with back work. If rear delts are a weak point do bent over rows but at shoulder/upper back area. you can use more weight than with DB rear raises.
i agree donny,most of the time i do dumbell laterals before my presses,pre exhaust is a very great principle
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i agree donny,most of the time i do dumbell laterals before my presses,pre exhaust is a very great principle
I save my pressing for last.
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I save my pressing for last.
yes me too.
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Shit I just do all machines like phil heath
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Heavy shoulder presses are quite the bald movement - real men defying gravity.
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Heavy shoulder presses are quite the bald movement - real men defying gravity.
yes but what is the point in such a lift? Muscle growth or ego? Fat guy who has no idea about training.
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Heavy shoulder presses are quite the bald movement - real men defying gravity.
One painful rep of peace.
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Heavy shoulder presses are quite the bald movement - real men defying gravity.
That's the most pathetic thing I've seen in recent memory. I bet that guy went home and bragged to his fat, dumpy girlfriend before he mounted her for 3 minutes of lights-off, missionary sex
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Most people I see doing this movement while sitting with a back rest end up training a lot of their upper chest.
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Okay Einsteins, what the best way to do them, some say let the dumbbell right down to the shoulder, and some say let it down just until your arm is parallel to the floor. Arm parallel means you can use more weight so I'm thinking it's an ego thing. I use the first method. What say the GB experts?
i always bring them down to my shoulder.. i use the hella bulky ones so its not actually a big thing
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Most people I see doing this movement while sitting with a back rest end up training a lot of their upper chest.
A back rest is not bad. Dumbbell press can be good. Just idiots do it with too much weight and no real idea. Depends too on if you use a neutral hand position. How is your elbow position. Even a Basic exercise is complex. lifting weights is not rocket science but doing it right is important for your joints.
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That's the most pathetic thing I've seen in recent memory. I bet that guy went home and bragged to his fat, dumpy girlfriend before he mounted her for 3 minutes of lights-off, missionary sex
Fat piece of shit had no business using Ronnie's weights.
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The fatso can probably do 100s for sets of 15 easily and yet has nothing to show for it.
Using the chair with the back is really pointless if you want to work shoulders. They should toss them out of all gyms.
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The fatso can probably do 100s for sets of 15 easily and yet has nothing to show for it.
Using the chair with the back is really pointless if you want to work shoulders. They should toss them out of all gyms.
explain why.
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explain why.
Because leaning against that pad forcefully takes emphasis off the shoulder totally. Try this. Grab the weight you normally do for 10 to where you can`t get anymore and try it without the backing. You won`t be able to do it at all, but your shoulders will be doing all of the work.
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Gte them up with spotters assistance then lower them 3 inches while screaming. That's what real men do.
This method must be very effective as i see it used often
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Okay Einsteins, what the best way to do them, some say let the dumbbell right down to the shoulder, and some say let it down just until your arm is parallel to the floor. Arm parallel means you can use more weight so I'm thinking it's an ego thing. I use the first method. What say the GB experts?
neither, go until your triceps rests against your lat
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neither, go until your triceps rests against your lat
This.
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The fatso can probably do 100s for sets of 15 easily and yet has nothing to show for it.
Using the chair with the back is really pointless if you want to work shoulders. They should toss them out of all gyms.
i dropped the backrest last shoulder workout after reading this thread, sat upright on a flat bench, and dropped the weight from the 80s i usually use to 60s.
I tried them both to parallel and below. (My parallel is actually about an inch below parallel, my elbows just barely drop below my shoulder, and my bicep/forearm angle is just barely less than 90*). Below was bringing the weight down to just above my clavicles.
I found that dropping the backrest DID make a sig improvement isolating the delt, i felt it much more.
However, going down below did absolutley nothing but cause me pain. I actually felt like it worked the delt LESS in my case than bringing it further down towards my shoulders
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i dropped the backrest last shoulder workout after reading this thread, sat upright on a flat bench, and dropped the weight from the 80s i usually use to 60s.
I tried them both to parallel and below. (My parallel is actually about an inch below parallel, my elbows just barely drop below my shoulder, and my bicep/forearm angle is just barely less than 90*). Below was bringing the weight down to just above my clavicles.
I found that dropping the backrest DID make a sig improvement isolating the delt, i felt it much more.
However, going down below did absolutley nothing but cause me pain. I actually felt like it worked the delt LESS in my case than bringing it further down towards my shoulders
Very good! That back rest is nothing but a crutch, an ego booster.
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Very good! That back rest is nothing but a crutch, an ego booster.
I generally keep the back totally flush and straight against the back rest, no arching. However, I'll give a try just sitting on a bench (that's what you're recommending right, not standing?) and report back. It might be a while because I just did shoulders yesterday. I hope you guys can bear the suspense. Maybe you can start a 5 day countdown building up to it.
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I generally keep the back totally flush and straight against the back rest, no arching. However, I'll give a try just sitting on a bench (that's what you're recommending right, not standing?) and report back. It might be a while because I just did shoulders yesterday. I hope you guys can bear the suspense. Maybe you can start a 5 day countdown building up to it.
Yes! Can`t wait.
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I gave up the seat for the flat bench on overhead work about a year ago. It did severely cut down on my weights.
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Yes! Can`t wait.
I confirm that no-back support is superior, both for the standard press where the upper arms are in line with the clavicles and the anterior delt focused variant where they are at 90 degrees to the clavicles.
Thanks for the tip!
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I confirm that no-back support is superior, both for the standard press where the upper arms are in line with the clavicles and the anterior delt focused variant where they are at 90 degrees to the clavicles.
Thanks for the tip!
No problem! I think its about time people stop the nonsense chair backed "shoulder" press. It really is a joke of a movement when done in that chair.
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No problem! I think its about time people stop the nonsense chair backed "shoulder" press. It really is a joke of a movement when done in that chair.
unless you need the backrest for support because you have a bad lower back...!!
the backrest prevents the severe arch and extreme load on the lower back!!
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unless you need the backrest for support because you have a bad lower back...!!
the backrest prevents the severe arch and extreme load on the lower back!!
I think the backrest does the opposite. It creates the severe arch and puts loads on the lower back because of the false amount of weight that can lifted with the "shoulder" (and lower back, upper chest).
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Do them standing like a real man.
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I agree with Adonis here ...sitting on a flat bench with no backing is a totally different game .
I put one foot forward and one behind me for balance.
Pre-exhaust all three heads say 3 sets of 12 for each head and then dumb presses on a flat bench ...4 working sets.Finish with a wide upright row with a low pulley or a barbell.
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i dropped the backrest last shoulder workout after reading this thread, sat upright on a flat bench, and dropped the weight from the 80s i usually use to 60s.
I tried them both to parallel and below. (My parallel is actually about an inch below parallel, my elbows just barely drop below my shoulder, and my bicep/forearm angle is just barely less than 90*). Below was bringing the weight down to just above my clavicles.
I found that dropping the backrest DID make a sig improvement isolating the delt, i felt it much more.
However, going down below did absolutley nothing but cause me pain. I actually felt like it worked the delt LESS in my case than bringing it further down towards my shoulders
So if you were doing say 3 set of ten with the 80's you were moving 2400 lbs. Now you are using 60's so you are moving 1800 lbs. Yes it's harder without the back rest but the reason why is mostly you are fighting for balance. Remember what Platz said? If you are lifting something heavy every muscle in your body should be tense, even your nose, having the back rest allows you to push your self into and become tense, allowing you to lift more. It's like when you bench heavy you tighten your middle back by squeezing your shoulders together. The time it takes to do presses with 80's or 60's is about the same, time under tension, but the heavier weight should be giving more stimulus, as long as form is good. Once your locked into position your lower back and legs are not actually lifting the weight, how could they be, they are not moving.
If something causes pain you should avoid it always.