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Getbig Main Boards => Politics and Political Issues Board => Topic started by: 240 is Back on February 23, 2015, 09:26:58 AM

Title: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 23, 2015, 09:26:58 AM
Granted, he admitted he considered placing rioters into a peaceful protest in order to get it rowdy so police could crush it, so that's a bad thing... but aside from that...

I'm really starting to like Walker.  He keeps making brilliant statements like this:

“I’ve actually never talked about it or I haven’t read about that,” Walker said, his voice calm and firm. “I’ve never asked him that,” he added. “You’ve asked me to make statements about people that I haven’t had a conversation with about that. How [could] I say if I know either of you are a Christian?"
Walker said such questions from reporters are reflective of a broader problem in the nation’s political-media culture, which he described as fixated on issues that are not relevant to most Americans.
“To me, this is a classic example of why people hate Washington and, increasingly, they dislike the press,” he said. “The things they care about don’t even remotely come close to what you’re asking about.”

Walker isn't buying into the typical wedge issue, personal attack/suspicion bullshit that other politicians (of both parties) always choose. 

If he can remain consistent on this - and not just pick and choose which social issues to weigh in on - I'm totally going to like this guy in the 2016 primaries.  It'll be hypocritical if he says "we should focus on economics, I'm not talking about evolution", then he proceeds to scream about 5 popular social issue positions he has.

Would love to see him stay on message - fix the economy - while showing competence on the important issues like defense, and lettting the states deal with the day-to-day drama on wedge issues.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Archer77 on February 23, 2015, 09:30:49 AM
I'm convinced that we are doomed no matter who is elected.   If a Republican gets in the white house he will just do the same stupid shit the Democrats have done. 
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 23, 2015, 09:35:21 AM
I'm convinced that we are doomed no matter who is elected.   If a Republican gets in the white house he will just do the same stupid shit the Democrats have done. 

but half of the problem in DC is that instead of focusing upon budget, economy, defense, manufacturing, national improvement.... Politicians spend too much of their time with ceremonial bills on wedge issues.  They waste time every week on these bills, admitting they won't pass, but they want to get "on the record" with 55 bills on whatever issue...

It's all about their base, trying to shore up donations for the next election.  If they could maybe make that vote ONCE then spend the rest of the time actually solving problems, that'd be great.  Worst are those in Senate that don't bother voting, even though they scream about the wedge issues all the time.  Ugh. 

Problem with Hermann cain ' answering "999" for everything from libya to russia - is that he really didn't have an understanding of these issues.  When pressed, he didn't know anything about these conflicts, he didn't know who had nukes... scary unprepared.    Walker is a governor and a smart man... show us you can fix economy, let the states handle the wedge issue.  Way too many repubs scream about states rights, then demand a national bill on issues they pick and choose. 
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Archer77 on February 23, 2015, 09:45:47 AM
but half of the problem in DC is that instead of focusing upon budget, economy, defense, manufacturing, national improvement.... Politicians spend too much of their time with ceremonial bills on wedge issues.  They waste time every week on these bills, admitting they won't pass, but they want to get "on the record" with 55 bills on whatever issue...

It's all about their base, trying to shore up donations for the next election.  If they could maybe make that vote ONCE then spend the rest of the time actually solving problems, that'd be great.  Worst are those in Senate that don't bother voting, even though they scream about the wedge issues all the time.  Ugh. 

Problem with Hermann cain ' answering "999" for everything from libya to russia - is that he really didn't have an understanding of these issues.  When pressed, he didn't know anything about these conflicts, he didn't know who had nukes... scary unprepared.    Walker is a governor and a smart man... show us you can fix economy, let the states handle the wedge issue.  Way too many repubs scream about states rights, then demand a national bill on issues they pick and choose. 

Politicians put partisan "wedge issue" initiatives in funding bills that they then threaten not to pass if they don't get their way.  The recent DHS funding bill is a good example of that. The same shit will happen no matter who is elected.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 23, 2015, 09:48:37 AM
you will shill for Hillary regardless in 2016 - stop the bullshit
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 23, 2015, 09:49:27 AM
The same shit will happen no matter who is elected.

maybe.  maybe not.  Would President Ron Paul have let his party do it?  Who knows.  At the very least, a strong Repub President that "calls out" both parties in congress for this pork crap might lessen it.  

i'm so sick of the left/right talk.  I like walker because he's willing to focus on the ECONOMY and he's not pandering to the base.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 23, 2015, 09:52:15 AM
you will shill for Hillary regardless in 2016 - stop the bullshit

I have shit on the clintons on getbig since 2002 or so.  I hate them.  I'm disgusted by repubs that voted hilary in primaries, I'm disgusted by people willing to vote in the seriously piggish bill clinton into office.  I cannot stand the clintons.

I want Warren to win the Dem nomination - give america two extermes to choose from.  They run Hilary vs Christie, and let's be honest, they're pretty close on most issues - She's a lib hawk and He's a lifetime liberal rino. 

if I do kneepad hilary by saying she's the best bet for president, call me on it.  if i point out good/bad points with all candidates, accept that comes with debate on a forum.  Some folks can't tell honest assessment from kneepadding. 
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Archer77 on February 23, 2015, 09:52:22 AM
maybe.  maybe not.  Would President Ron Paul have let his party do it?  Who knows.  At the very least, a strong Repub President that "calls out" both parties in congress for this pork crap might lessen it.  

i'm so sick of the left/right talk.  I like walker because he's willing to focus on the ECONOMY and he's not pandering to the base.
 

President Ron Paul would be dicked around by both parties.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 23, 2015, 09:53:50 AM
I have shit on the clintons on getbig since 2002 or so.  I hate them.  I'm disgusted by repubs that voted hilary in primaries, I'm disgusted by people willing to vote in the seriously piggish bill clinton into office.  I cannot stand the clintons.

I want Warren to win the Dem nomination - give america two extermes to choose from.  They run Hilary vs Christie, and let's be honest, they're pretty close on most issues - She's a lib hawk and He's a lifetime liberal rino. 

if I do kneepad hilary by saying she's the best bet for president, call me on it.  if i point out good/bad points with all candidates, accept that comes with debate on a forum.  Some folks can't tell honest assessment from kneepadding. 

Christie / Jeb / Rubio / Huck - all same shit
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 23, 2015, 09:58:24 AM
Christie / Jeb / Rubio / Huck - all same shit

Christie / Jeb / Rubio / Huck
same as Hilary, same as Romney, same as Mccain.

You're absolutely right.  Any idiot that tells you "i think Jeb will really change things" is a liar or an idiot.  Anyone that says "Christie is just what we need to stop this liberal mess" is stupid or dishonest.  Anyone that says "Hilary is going ot fix the obama mess" doesn't realize she's just following the obama/bush game plan. 

it'll take an extreme candidate to change anything.   let's run Cruz vs. Warren (or Walker vs Warren) and let America decide if they want to fix things thru fiscal conservatism, or if they want to become a govt-run socialist state.  This middle-of-road circle jerk is getting old.   I seriously want to throat punch any getbigger that tells us how Jeb is the return to conservative spending and values we'd been waiting for lol.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Archer77 on February 23, 2015, 10:03:34 AM
No matter who is in the white house spending goes up and the debt increases.  If Walker was really interested in doing anything to improve the economy and tried, he would be a one term President.  He's one man against many interests, some of those interests he shares.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 23, 2015, 10:06:43 AM
No matter who is in the white house spending goes up and the debt increases.  If Walker was really interested in doing anything to improve the economy and tried, he would be a one term President.  He's one man against many interests, some of those interests he shares.

then he should do that - get elected, put the USA on a good course, and if the 'interests' vote him out, then fine, he's fixed USA in only 4 years and can now make 20 mil a year giving speeches lol.  it's a win. 

Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Archer77 on February 23, 2015, 10:14:59 AM
then he should do that - get elected, put the USA on a good course, and if the 'interests' vote him out, then fine, he's fixed USA in only 4 years and can now make 20 mil a year giving speeches lol.  it's a win. 



no one could do that in four years
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 23, 2015, 10:23:31 AM
no one could do that in four years

eh, he could make a major impact in 4 years.   Just veto budgets until you see one that is responsible.  Cut the military spending in half - we still have more than the rest of the world combined and we can still destroy anyone... but do ya really need 50,000 men in SKorea?  I'm betting a video game kid in Tampa, FL with remote control nukes could keep NKorea in line just as easily lol.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Archer77 on February 23, 2015, 10:26:13 AM
eh, he could make a major impact in 4 years.   Just veto budgets until you see one that is responsible.  Cut the military spending in half - we still have more than the rest of the world combined and we can still destroy anyone... but do ya really need 50,000 men in SKorea?  I'm betting a video game kid in Tampa, FL with remote control nukes could keep NKorea in line just as easily lol.

All that sounds good but like I said interest groups will fight any president tooth and nail.  He can't do all of that alone and certainly not in four years.  Its a pipe dream
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 24, 2015, 10:15:34 AM
Granted, he admitted he considered placing rioters into a peaceful protest in order to get it rowdy so police could crush it, so that's a bad thing... but aside from that...

I'm really starting to like Walker.  He keeps making brilliant statements like this:

“I’ve actually never talked about it or I haven’t read about that,” Walker said, his voice calm and firm. “I’ve never asked him that,” he added. “You’ve asked me to make statements about people that I haven’t had a conversation with about that. How [could] I say if I know either of you are a Christian?"
Walker said such questions from reporters are reflective of a broader problem in the nation’s political-media culture, which he described as fixated on issues that are not relevant to most Americans.
“To me, this is a classic example of why people hate Washington and, increasingly, they dislike the press,” he said. “The things they care about don’t even remotely come close to what you’re asking about.”

Walker isn't buying into the typical wedge issue, personal attack/suspicion bullshit that other politicians (of both parties) always choose. 

If he can remain consistent on this - and not just pick and choose which social issues to weigh in on - I'm totally going to like this guy in the 2016 primaries.  It'll be hypocritical if he says "we should focus on economics, I'm not talking about evolution", then he proceeds to scream about 5 popular social issue positions he has.

Would love to see him stay on message - fix the economy - while showing competence on the important issues like defense, and lettting the states deal with the day-to-day drama on wedge issues.

Not sure how much Walker know's about "fixing" the economy considering that he hasn't done shit for Wisconsin and has actually quite likely harmed the economy there
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 24, 2015, 10:17:15 AM
Not sure how much Walker know's about "fixing" the economy considering that he hasn't done shit for Wisconsin and has actually quite likely harmed the economy there

Gov is about the closest job one can get to president... so a governor's performance matters a lot.

From what I've heard, he's turned things around completely by cutting lots of pork/fat.

Link to evidence otherwise?
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 24, 2015, 10:19:03 AM
Not sure how much Walker know's about "fixing" the economy considering that he hasn't done shit for Wisconsin and has actually quite likely harmed the economy there

LOL - yet you and the other libfags will vote for Hillary who destroyed lybia and everything else she went near
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 24, 2015, 10:21:28 AM
LOL - yet you and the other libfags will vote for Hillary who destroyed lybia and everything else she went near

careful, bro.  We don't want to fall into the trap of "it's okay that Walker sucks because Hilary sucks worse".   That happened in 2008 and 2012, and nobody bothered showing up to vote repub.

Instead, soul crusher, tell us how Walker WAS a success in turning around economy in his state. 
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 24, 2015, 10:22:44 AM
careful, bro.  We don't want to fall into the trap of "it's okay that Walker sucks because Hilary sucks worse".   That happened in 2008 and 2012, and nobody bothered showing up to vote repub.

Instead, soul crusher, tell us how Walker WAS a success in turning around economy in his state. 

Walker busted the Union THUGS and stood up to them through everything.  Showed balls of steel staring down the far left communist pos like Obama and strapajamafag support
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 24, 2015, 10:25:56 AM
Walker busted the Union THUGS and stood up to them through everything.  Showed balls of steel staring down the far left communist pos like Obama and strapajamafag support

Yes, balls are nice, but "showing balls" is what high school jocks do while flexing in the end zone while losing 42-7.

Do you have link showing Walker turned around economy? 

See, I'll start:

In 2011, Wisconsin had a whopping deficit of $3.6 billion dollars. But a cooperate tax cut and collective bargaining reforms invigorated the state economy. Now, the state is boasting a $911 million surplus, credited to “good stewardship of the taxpayers’ money.”

And what will Walker do? Buy his wife a $19,000 dress? Increase his paycheck? Go on vacation?

Nope. He's proposing $800 million in tax cuts.

“What do you do with a surplus? Give it back to the people who earned it. It's your money," Walker said.
http://spectator.org/blog/57525/wisconsin-thrives-under-scott-walker

It's not that hard to skip the "He's not as bad as hilary" and show his policies work.  That negative "they're worse than us" didn't work for romney or mccain. 
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 24, 2015, 10:26:54 AM
Walker busted the Union THUGS and stood up to them through everything.  Showed balls of steel staring down the far left communist pos like Obama and strapajamafag support

tell me how he is doing on job growth or growth of median household income

you know, things that are actually a measure of economic growth in the state

or was this post just one of the 20 times today that you NEED to say fag to fulfill the requirements of your OCD?
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 24, 2015, 10:27:36 AM
I prefer tossing insults at straw and the left.    ;)

Yes, balls are nice, but "showing balls" is what high school jocks do while flexing in the end zone while losing 42-7.

Do you have link showing Walker turned around economy? 

See, I'll start:

In 2011, Wisconsin had a whopping deficit of $3.6 billion dollars. But a cooperate tax cut and collective bargaining reforms invigorated the state economy. Now, the state is boasting a $911 million surplus, credited to “good stewardship of the taxpayers’ money.”

And what will Walker do? Buy his wife a $19,000 dress? Increase his paycheck? Go on vacation?

Nope. He's proposing $800 million in tax cuts.

“What do you do with a surplus? Give it back to the people who earned it. It's your money," Walker said.
http://spectator.org/blog/57525/wisconsin-thrives-under-scott-walker

It's not that hard to skip the "He's not as bad as hilary" and show his policies work.  That negative "they're worse than us" didn't work for romney or mccain. 
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 24, 2015, 10:28:01 AM
I prefer tossing insults at straw and the left.    ;)


 ;D
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 24, 2015, 10:28:33 AM
tell me how he is doing on job growth or growth of median household income

you know, things that are actually a measure of economic growth in the state

or was this post just one of the 20 times today that you NEED to say fag to fulfill the requirements of your OCD?

VS what - NYS and RI or other democrat 100% controlled hell holes?
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 24, 2015, 10:32:24 AM
I prefer tossing insults at straw and the left.    ;)

so you're admitting that you're only here to "toss insults" and have nothing of substance on the topic at hand to contribute to the conversation

thanks for at least admitting that

Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 24, 2015, 10:35:29 AM
VS what - NYS and RI or other democrat 100% controlled hell holes?

This thread is about Walker and what HE has done in HIS state

try staying on topic

now can you answer the questions or not?
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 24, 2015, 10:38:30 AM
Yes, balls are nice, but "showing balls" is what high school jocks do while flexing in the end zone while losing 42-7.

Do you have link showing Walker turned around economy? 

See, I'll start:

In 2011, Wisconsin had a whopping deficit of $3.6 billion dollars. But a cooperate tax cut and collective bargaining reforms invigorated the state economy. Now, the state is boasting a $911 million surplus, credited to “good stewardship of the taxpayers’ money.”

And what will Walker do? Buy his wife a $19,000 dress? Increase his paycheck? Go on vacation?

Nope. He's proposing $800 million in tax cuts.

“What do you do with a surplus? Give it back to the people who earned it. It's your money," Walker said.
http://spectator.org/blog/57525/wisconsin-thrives-under-scott-walker

It's not that hard to skip the "He's not as bad as hilary" and show his policies work.  That negative "they're worse than us" didn't work for romney or mccain. 

you got any figures on job growth, for example what he promised and what he delivered

how about wage growth in his state

those are both measures of economic growth and things that actually matter to every day working Americans.

Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 24, 2015, 10:52:11 AM
you got any figures on job growth, for example what he promised and what he delivered
how about wage growth in his state
those are both measures of economic growth and things that actually matter to every day working Americans.

I would argue there are huge ripple effects from the state having a surplus, and the tax cuts leading to reinvestment.

The money is there if you want to use it for social programs, or infrastructure, or whatever.  Lots of options for the things you mentioned.  but going from a deficit of 3.6 billion, to 911 million surplus... that's huge.

I can't think of ANY politician on either side that can make a similar claim. 
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 24, 2015, 11:20:57 AM
I would argue there are huge ripple effects from the state having a surplus, and the tax cuts leading to reinvestment.

The money is there if you want to use it for social programs, or infrastructure, or whatever.  Lots of options for the things you mentioned.  but going from a deficit of 3.6 billion, to 911 million surplus... that's huge.

I can't think of ANY politician on either side that can make a similar claim. 

maybe he can use that surplus to plug the holes in his budget

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2015/01/24/wisconsins-year-budget-hole-forecast-billion/22269873/

Still not much hope for job growth and median income growth

Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 24, 2015, 11:27:16 AM
maybe he can use that surplus to plug the holes in his budget

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2015/01/24/wisconsins-year-budget-hole-forecast-billion/22269873/

Still not much hope for job growth and median income growth



funny REALLY - you don't give a F about Obama's failed and fake promises on ObamaCare yet hold Walker to a different standard.

Typical left wing lib double standards - f off and go lick Hillarys' snatch 
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 24, 2015, 11:29:22 AM
maybe he can use that surplus to plug the holes in his budget
http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/2015/01/24/wisconsins-year-budget-hole-forecast-billion/22269873/
Still not much hope for job growth and median income growth

I like this!  

We've now agreed that Walker created $3.5 billion turnaround.   Now we're just arguing about whether or not he managed to spend it effectively - that's a great argument to be having!

And if the only beef is that Walker was unable to create as many jobs as he had hoped, while simultaneously saving $3.5 billion bucks lol... I'd say that ain't so bad.

Were any other US governors able to turn $3.6 billion dollar deficit into a $911 million surplus, in this same time period?
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 24, 2015, 11:33:18 AM
Why is it that none of the right wing economic fantasies every actually produce good economic results and often wind up torpedoing the economy (see Kansas as another example)

http://www.salon.com/2015/02/24/scott_walkers_economic_mess_how_worker_wages_were_gutted_in_wisconsin/
Scott Walker’s economic mess: How worker wages were gutted in Wisconsin

In many respects, the point of Walker’s anti-union crusade was to destroy the electoral muscle of the main opposition to his conservative agenda. But the most important impact of the creeping death of public unions in Wisconsin may be on take-home pay.

The Washington Post didn’t take note of this, but according to the Census Bureau’s American Community Survey, median household income in Wisconsin is $51,467 a year, nearly $800 below the national average. And it has fallen consistently since the passage of the anti-union law in 2011, despite a small bounce-back nationally in 2013. The Bureau of Economic Analysis puts Wisconsin in the middle of the pack on earnings growth, despite a fairly tight labor market with a headline unemployment rate of 5.2 percent.

This actually undercounts the problem a bit, because it doesn’t cover total compensation. For example, in the wake of the anti-union law, public employees lost the equivalent of 8-10 percent in take-home pay because of increased contributions to healthcare and pension benefits.

Moreover, the meager earnings growth that has come to Wisconsin has mostly gone to the top 1 percent of earners. Another Wisconsin Budget Project report shows that the state hit a record share of income going to the very top in 2012, a year after passage of the anti-union law. That doesn’t include the $2 billion in tax cuts Walker initiated in his first term, which went disproportionately to the highest wage earners. (This is precisely the agenda Walker is likely to run on in his presidential campaign.)

The trends mirror those in the country at large, where labor has similarly stumbled. Real hourly wages fell for almost everyone nationwide in 2014, according to the Economic Policy Institute, except for the low-wage sector, bolstered by minimum wage increases at the state and local level. Wisconsin has not joined that movement, with its minimum wage still consistent with the federal floor, at $7.25 an hour.

You can argue that squashing unions in Wisconsin had no bearing on income stagnation in the state. But you would have to ignore how the labor market works. If public employees cannot bargain for wages and benefits, they stay depressed. And employers who compete for well-educated workers, like those who take jobs in teaching and government administration, similarly don’t have to increase wages to attract their services. Blunting worker power in one sector has ripple effects everywhere else; as Larry Mishel wrote in the New York Times yesterday, “the erosion of collective bargaining is the single largest factor suppressing wage growth for middle-wage workers over the last few decades.” And Wisconsin provides a salient example of that.

Collective worker action was behind the biggest wage announcement in the past several years: Wal-Mart’s move to increase entry-level pay to $9 an hour this year, and $10 an hour by 2016. This will act like Wisconsin’s wage depression in reverse: retailers will be forced to compete with Wal-Mart’s slightly higher wages, and the entire wage floor will push upward. And while an improving economy, tighter labor markets and the need to retain personnel may have factored into Wal-Mart’s decision, you cannot deny the role of the United Food and Commercial Workers’ campaign to organize Wal-Mart workers. “This is not an act of corporate benevolence,” said Marc Perrone, president of UFCW, in a statement on the Wal-Mart announcement. “Walmart is responding directly to calls from workers and their allies to pay a living wage.”

In fact, the last time Wal-Mart faced significant labor unrest in 2006, it raised wages as a direct result, according to Federal Reserve minutes. It, like most businesses, makes changes that benefit workers only when its reputation is threatened and poor publicity ensues. That means that worker voices play a powerful role in wage growth.

Scott Walker has taken that voice away from public unions, and effectively the entire Wisconsin labor movement, which finds itself crippled. That has real consequences for middle-class wages. Since Walker wants to bring this policy menu to the rest of the country in 2016, people on Main Streets outside of Wisconsin should take note.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 24, 2015, 11:37:12 AM
Scott Walker has taken that voice away from public unions, and effectively the entire Wisconsin labor movement, which finds itself crippled. That has real consequences for middle-class wages. Since Walker wants to bring this policy menu to the rest of the country in 2016, people on Main Streets outside of Wisconsin should take note.

________________________ ________________________ __________


 ;D   


Yes - fuck you!!!! 
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 24, 2015, 11:37:20 AM
I like this!  

We've now agreed that Walker created $3.5 billion turnaround.   Now we're just arguing about whether or not he managed to spend it effectively - that's a great argument to be having!

And if the only beef is that Walker was unable to create as many jobs as he had hoped, while simultaneously saving $3.5 billion bucks lol... I'd say that ain't so bad.

Were any other US governors able to turn $3.6 billion dollar deficit into a $911 million surplus, in this same time period?


turn around?

All he did was cut wages and benefits to workers and give tax cuts to the top 1%

Is that what you're referring to as a "turnaround"?

from my prior link

Quote
MADISON – Gov. Scott Walker will have to plug a roughly $280 million budget shortfall by the end of June, and the state faces a two-year deficit that could be as large as $2 billion, based on new estimates released Friday by the nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 24, 2015, 11:38:42 AM
funny REALLY - you don't give a F about Obama's failed and fake promises on ObamaCare yet hold Walker to a different standard.

Typical left wing lib double standards - f off and go lick Hillarys' snatch 

again, either stay on topic or go find another thread to pollute

Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 24, 2015, 11:41:04 AM
Scott Walker has taken that voice away from public unions, and effectively the entire Wisconsin labor movement, which finds itself crippled. That has real consequences for middle-class wages. Since Walker wants to bring this policy menu to the rest of the country in 2016, people on Main Streets outside of Wisconsin should take note.

________________________ ________________________ __________


 ;D  


Yes - fuck you!!!!  

yep and all it did was fuck up the economy, created stagnation in wage growth and of course greatly benefit the top 1% and his oligarch patrons

of course you would love that

you're too stupid to see how this fucks over common people just like you

fucking idiot cheering for your demise
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 24, 2015, 11:41:11 AM
let's clarify this ...  

Worker wages are LOW in Wisconsin, correct?  

That should bring a few things UP in Wisconsin.  American manufacturing should go there, since there are plenty of workers who won't demand huge salaries.  Colleges and Univ should be packed there with people going back to school, learning new skills which can transfer.  Land should be cheap, opening up things for developers and real estate.  

And let's face it -

I'm not saying walker's way is 100% correct - that $3.5 bill sure could have been used better.  But he's shown he's not afraid to shake things up, and doing this in 50 states would be a huge way to transform the USA in a way that will eventually happen, regardless... better to do it now while economy is comparatively good.  Get people back in school, bring back mnfg, but at the same time, you punish the shit out of anyone that abuses workers in a place with reduced union involvement.

Walker isn't perfect, but he is the best thing going.  Can he use that $ better?  Sure, of course.  But while most people are all talk, he's actually done it.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 24, 2015, 11:42:31 AM
let's clarify this ...  

Worker wages are LOW in Wisconsin, correct?  

That should bring a few things UP in Wisconsin.  American manufacturing should go there, since there are plenty of workers who won't demand huge salaries.  Colleges and Univ should be packed there with people going back to school, learning new skills which can transfer.  Land should be cheap, opening up things for developers and real estate.  

And let's face it -

I'm not saying walker's way is 100% correct - that $3.5 bill sure could have been used better.  But he's shown he's not afraid to shake things up, and doing this in 50 states would be a huge way to transform the USA in a way that will eventually happen, regardless... better to do it now while economy is comparatively good.  Get people back in school, bring back mnfg, but at the same time, you punish the shit out of anyone that abuses workers in a place with reduced union involvement.

Walker isn't perfect, but he is the best thing going.  Can he use that $ better?  Sure, of course.  But while most people are all talk, he's actually done it.

yeah, that's the theory

too bad it didn't happen
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 24, 2015, 11:43:15 AM
yep and all it did was fuck up the economy, created stagnation in wage growth and of course greatly benefit the top 1% and his oligarch patrons

of course you would love that

you're too stupid to see how this fucks over common people just like you

fucking idiot cheering for your demise

Right - cause a state like NY or IL or RI would be booming right you FNG moronic leftist tool? 
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 24, 2015, 11:43:21 AM
yeah, that's the theory

too bad it didn't happen


maybe it's too early to tell.  
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 24, 2015, 11:48:12 AM

maybe it's too early to tell.  


how much time does he need.  It's been 3 years now.

things are worse now so they have to get better just to get back to par

Also there was no 3.5 billion deficit to begin with

It's just a lie that you apparently got suckered into believing

Quote
Walker does not mention the 11 billion Federal stimulus Wisconsin got from the Obama administration(5 billion went to Milwaukee county, 4 billion to Dane County and the other 70 counties had to divvy up the remainder...  and, his friend Paul Ryan who voted against it, then took some for his district after it passed and lied about having done so to good old Joe from Stoughton on a radio station and also to the press...
See video(s) below by Rachel Maddow: the one below states that when Scott Walker took office, Wisconsin was doing fine, it had a 120 million dollar surplus... and, it's obvious that Scott Walker was lying about the 3.5 billion ginned up projected deficit he told VCY America about, shortly before the recalls; his intent? it was to justify it as a pretext for having ended collective bargaining for public state workers. i.e., just as his intent for ginning up a fake budget crisis when Milwaukee county executive for his justifying of his firing of the union security guards as she explained in her next video following the one below.

Also, Walker lied about inheriting a 3.5 billion dollar deficit. when he took office Wisconsin was projected to have a 120 million surplus. He ginned it up by cooking the books and faked a budget crisis as he did when Milwaukee county executive to justify the firing of the union security guards.



https://sites.google.com/site/teapartygovernorplayinggames/home

Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 24, 2015, 11:49:56 AM
Right - cause a state like NY or IL or RI would be booming right you FNG moronic leftist tool? 

again, stay on topic or go somewhere else
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 24, 2015, 11:50:30 AM
how much time does he need.  It's been 3 years now.

things are worse now so they have to get better just to get back to par

Also there was no 3.5 billion deficit to begin with

It's just a lie that you apparently got suckered into believing

https://sites.google.com/site/teapartygovernorplayinggames/home




LOL!!!!!   F real you FNG libfag?   You voted for obamafag in 2012 remember?     F off w your libgayfagpajamatwinkbitc h douvle standards.  Look in the damn mirror pajama boy
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 24, 2015, 11:51:30 AM

LOL!!!!!   F real you FNG libfag?   You voted for obamafag in 2012 remember?     F off w your libgayfagpajamatwinkbitc h douvle standards.  Look in the damn mirror pajama boy

Hey Archer - do you see why I don't take this idiot seriously

you were the one pissing and moaning about how I treat 333

Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 24, 2015, 11:54:27 AM
Hey Archer - do you see why I don't take this idiot seriously

you were the one pissing and moaning about how I treat 333



I give it right back.   F you lib w your communist garbage.   If your belief system worked stated like NYS, CT, IL, RI, etc would be at the top of every list economy wise.   Guess what twinklestoes - they are not and are all near the bottom. 

PS - F you!!! 
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 24, 2015, 12:00:21 PM
I give it right back.   F you lib w your communist garbage.   If your belief system worked stated like NYS, CT, IL, RI, etc would be at the top of every list economy wise.   Guess what twinklestoes - they are not and are all near the bottom. 

PS - F you!!! 

give what back

all I've asked you to do is stay on topic

Fuck you and fuck your MOTHER for not getting an abortion

she is responsible for contributing a piece of shit to the human race





Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 24, 2015, 12:02:52 PM
give what back

all I've asked you to do is stay on topic

Fuck you and fuck your MOTHER for not getting an abortion

she is responsible for contributing a piece of shit to the human race







Yellen: Unemployment Rate Looks 'Less Rosy' When Part-Time and Discouraged Workers Are Counted
CNS News.com ^  | February 24,2015 | Ali Meyer

Posted on ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2015‎ ‎2‎:‎54‎:‎36‎ ‎PM by Hojczyk

Federal Reserve Chair Janet Yellen said Tuesday at a Senate Banking Committee hearing that the U-6 unemployment rate--which includes people who are working part-time for economic reasons and those who are marginally attached to the labor force--“definitely shows a less rosy picture” of employment in the country.

People "marginally attached" to the labor force "are those who currently are neither working nor looking for work but indicate that they want and are available for a job and have looked for one work sometime in the past 12 months."

In January, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the "U-3" unemployment rate, which is the one generally reported, was 5.7 percent. U-6 was 11.3 percent.


(Excerpt) Read more at cnsnews.com ...

Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 24, 2015, 12:23:18 PM
give what back

all I've asked you to do is stay on topic

Fuck you and fuck your MOTHER for not getting an abortion

she is responsible for contributing a piece of shit to the human race








OOOHHHH poor baby - strawfagpajamatwink doesn't like her own tactics used against her.   F off pansie
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 24, 2015, 12:43:48 PM

OOOHHHH poor baby - strawfagpajamatwink doesn't like her own tactics used against her.   F off pansie

what the fuck are you talking about you delusional queer

here is your first reply to me on this thread (note that you were replying to me even though my post wasn't to you)

LOL - yet you and the other libfags will vote for Hillary who destroyed lybia and everything else she went near

here's my reply trying to get you to stay on topic

tell me how he is doing on job growth or growth of median household income

you know, things that are actually a measure of economic growth in the state

or was this post just one of the 20 times today that you NEED to say fag to fulfill the requirements of your OCD?

so again

FUCK YOU and and FUCK YOUR MOTHER for not getting an abortion

you are worthless piece of shit that ruins this board


Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 24, 2015, 12:45:09 PM
what the fuck are you talking about you delusional queer

here is your first reply to me on this thread (note that you were replying to me even though my post wasn't to you)

here's my reply trying to get you to stay on topic

so again

FUCK YOU and and FUCK YOUR MOTHER for not getting an abortion

you are worthless piece of shit that ruins this board




Meltdown    :'(  :'(  :'(  :'(
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 24, 2015, 01:36:02 PM
Meltdown    :'(  :'(  :'(  :'(

hardly

just pointing you're a lying piece of shit who is only here to feed his OCD compulsion

now you can get back to saying ofag another twenty times today like you know you NEED to do
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 24, 2015, 01:37:09 PM
hardly

just pointing you're a lying piece of shit who is only here to feed his OCD compulsion

now you can get back to saying ofag another twenty times today like you know you NEED to do

No - unlike you soft man - I actually have to go train and lift.   You might want to try it for once as opposed to shilling for communists
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 24, 2015, 01:40:31 PM
No - unlike you soft man - I actually have to go train and lift.   You might want to try it for once as opposed to shilling for communists

go fuck yourself you pathetic closet case

I don't give a fuck if you train and lift or not you attention craving little queer

Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 24, 2015, 05:46:04 PM
Good.  Walker won't get in the sewers with Rudy on this one.



As the world now knows, Giuliani, the former New York mayor, said at a dinner featuring Walker, the Wisconsin governor, that “I do not believe that the president loves America.” According to Politico, Giuliani said President Obama “wasn’t brought up the way you were brought up and I was brought up, through love of this country.”

And Walker, just a few seats away, said . . . nothing. Asked the next morning on CNBC about Giuliani’s words, the Republican presidential aspirant said: “The mayor can speak for himself. I’m not going to comment on what the president thinks or not. He can speak for himself as well. I’ll tell you, I love America, and I think there are plenty of people — Democrat, Republican, independent, everyone in between — who love this country.”

But did he agree with Giuliani? “I’m in New York,” Walker demurred. “I’m used to people saying things that are aggressive out there.”  source: WP
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Princess L on February 27, 2015, 09:09:46 AM
Not sure how much Walker know's about "fixing" the economy considering that he hasn't done shit for Wisconsin and has actually quite likely harmed the economy there

Where the hell are you getting your information?

We had a $3.6 billion deficit when he got into office and amid all the recall bullshit, protests and the Dems running to Illinois for several weeks to avoid voting on the budget during his entire first term, managed to put us in a $911 million dollar surplus.  Property taxes have gone down and I'm not talking a couple of bucks ~ hundred$.  He identified and eliminated $300 million in waste, fraud, and abuse in the state budget.  Looking forward to when the Right to Work bill crosses his desk for signature now that it's been passed in the  state Senate.

turn around?

All he did was cut wages and benefits to workers and give tax cuts to the top 1%

Is that what you're referring to as a "turnaround"?



Wages were not cut.  Workers are now required to contribute a small percentage to their healthcare.  Welcome to the real world.  They are also now required to contribute to THEIR OWN pension fund.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 27, 2015, 09:22:54 AM
Where the hell are you getting your information?

We had a $3.6 billion deficit when he got into office and amid all the recall bullshit, protests and the Dems running to Illinois for several weeks to avoid voting on the budget during his entire first term, managed to put us in a $911 million dollar surplus.  Property taxes have gone down and I'm not talking a couple of bucks ~ hundred$.  He identified and eliminated $300 million in waste, fraud, and abuse in the state budget.  Looking forward to when the Right to Work bill crosses his desk for signature now that it's been passed in the  state Senate.

Nope, he came into office on track to have a budget surplus of 120 million



Quote
"Wisconsin is on track to have a budget surplus this year, I am not kidding. I am quoting their own version of the Congressional Budget Office the state's own bipartisan assess the state's finances agency. That agency said the month that the new Republican Governor was sworn in--last month--that the state was on track to have a $120 million dollar surplus this year. So, um, why exactly does WI look like this today?"

The State Employees did not make the state go bankrupt, Governor Scott Walker did.

"Even though the state had started the year on track to have a budget surplus, now, there is in fact there a $137 million budget shortfall. Republican Governor Scott Walker, coincidentally gave away $140 million worth of business tax breaks since he came into office."

Hey, wait! That is exactly the amount of the budget shortfall!
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Archer77 on February 27, 2015, 09:24:19 AM
Nope, he came into office on track to have a budget surplus of 120 million




Its Maddow. I'm looking forward to PL coming back with a video of Hannity.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 27, 2015, 09:25:27 AM
Its Maddow. I'm looking forward to PL coming back with a video of Hannity.

how about you watch the video and try refuting something she says rather than attacking the messenger
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Archer77 on February 27, 2015, 09:33:27 AM
how about you watch the video and try refuting something she says rather than attacking the messenger


Have you tried refuting what she said first or did you take her word at face value?
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 27, 2015, 09:48:42 AM

Have you tried refuting what she said first or did you take her word at face value?

why would I try to refute a video that I posted

Is that what you normally do when you post a video

Feel free to watch and tell me what parts are not accurate and of course provide some proof
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Princess L on February 27, 2015, 09:59:54 AM
Nope, he came into office on track to have a budget surplus of 120 million




Holy Crap!  What an obnoxious wench  :o ::)  The only worthwhile thing she said (in that 4 year old video) is at 2:28
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 27, 2015, 10:01:05 AM
Holy Crap!  What an obnoxious wench  :o ::)  The only worthwhile thing she said (in that 4 year old video) is at 2:28

feel free to post any facts that you would like to refute
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Archer77 on February 27, 2015, 10:02:54 AM
why would I try to refute a video that I posted

Is that what you normally do when you post a video

Feel free to watch and tell me what parts are not accurate and of course provide some proof

Why wouldn't you try to refute it? Don't you want to know if what she says is factually accurate?   Are you admitting you just took her words at face value?
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 27, 2015, 10:08:17 AM
Why wouldn't you try to refute it? Don't you want to know if what she says is factually accurate?   Are you admitting you just took her words at face value?

I assume it's accurate given that she is a news show, she provided sources for her statements and it's been out there for a long time now and I've found nothing to show it's not correct

that's enough for me

isn't that usually the same standard you apply to the stuff you believe to be correct

if you don't think something she said is accurate then FEEL FREE To prove your point

otherwise you can keep posting nonsense but I won't bother replying back
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Archer77 on February 27, 2015, 10:11:24 AM
I assume it's accurate given that she is a news show, she provided sources for her statements and it's been out there for a long time now and I've found nothing to show it's not correct

that's enough for me

isn't that usually the same standard you apply to the stuff you believe to be correct

if you don't think something she said is accurate then FEEL FREE To prove your point

otherwise you can keep posting nonsense but I won't bother replying back

According to your logic anyone who appears in front of a camera deserves to be believed. You've just validated every piece of fox news video 333 has every posted.

Also, this is another logical fallacy called appeal to authority.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 27, 2015, 10:12:17 AM
I assume it's accurate given that she is a news show, she provided sources for her statements and it's been out there for a long time now and I've found nothing to show it's not correct

that's enough for me

isn't that usually the same standard you apply to the stuff you believe to be correct

if you don't think something she said is accurate then FEEL FREE To prove your point

otherwise you can keep posting nonsense but I won't bother replying back


LMFAO!!!!  Ha ha ha ha     You so owned yourself - trusting Madcow?   LOL you pajamatwink
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Archer77 on February 27, 2015, 10:20:10 AM

LMFAO!!!!  Ha ha ha ha     You so owned yourself - trusting Madcow?   LOL you pajamatwink

He's run out to find more info which will consist of another video of Rachel Maddow or something from media matters.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Princess L on February 27, 2015, 10:22:02 AM
I assume it's accurate given that she is a news show, she provided sources for her statements and it's been out there for a long time now and I've found nothing to show it's not correct

that's enough for me

isn't that usually the same standard you apply to the stuff you believe to be correct

if you don't think something she said is accurate then FEEL FREE To prove your point

otherwise you can keep posting nonsense but I won't bother replying back

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2011/feb/25/responding-rachel-maddow/

On her Feb. 24, 2011 show, MSNBC host Rachel Maddow criticized PolitiFact Wisconsin and how we handled a request for a correction about a Truth-O-Meter item from a statement on her Feb. 17, 2011 show.

We feel it is important to respond.

First, we have a policy on corrections and review all requests for corrections that we receive. When we've made an error, we acknowledge it, as PolitiFact Oregon did recently with this item.

Maddow's criticism in Thursday's show used artful editing and told an incomplete story. At issue is whether we checked the right factual claim. We examined her statement that Wisconsin "is on track to have a budget surplus this year." But she maintains that in the same segment, she made clear that she knew the state had a shortfall. (You can read a transcript of the entire segment here.)

We chose to examine her surplus claim because we had requests from many readers and it was the main focus at the beginning of her segment. It went on for nearly a minute. Her later statement about the shortfall was very brief and her main point seemed to be that the shortfall was created by $140 million in tax breaks for businesses. Still, we acknowledged in our article that she made that point.

In her criticism of PolitiFact Thursday night, Maddow misled viewers by repeatedly playing just a nine-word snippet of her saying that "There is in fact a $137 million budget shortfall." She neglected to include her full quote in context:

"There is in fact a $137 million budget shortfall. Republican Gov. Scott Walker, coincidentally, has given away $140 million worth of business tax breaks since he came into office. Hey, wait. That's about exactly the size of the shortfall."
False
See related rulings

 

That artful editing -- plus the fact that she didn't mention the more lengthy quote that we checked -- deprived viewers of the full context for her remarks and our reasoning for checking the claim we checked. We not only examined that claim, we also debunked the suggestion from Maddow and others that the tax breaks were the cause of the $137 million shortfall.

When her producer Bill Wolff e-mailed us earlier this week asking for a correction (his correspondence to us has been posted on the Rachel Maddow blog) we reviewed our work, watched the segment and decided no correction was warranted.

Our e-mails are below.

Response to Maddow producer Bill Wolff from PolitiFact Editor Bill Adair, sent Feb. 23, 2011

Bill --

In response to your request for a correction on the PolitiFact Wisconsin article about Rachel Maddow, I have reviewed the article, the show's transcript, your e-mail to Greg Borowski and watched the segment. I don't see anything that warrants a correction or clarification.

Some specifics:

Was it unfair to check this claim?
You wrote in your e-mail that "In short, Politifact alleges that an assertion was made on The Rachel Maddow Show that in fact was not made." Your point was that it was unfair for PolitiFact Wisconsin to fact-check the claim that "the state is on track to have a budget surplus this year."

But I don't see how it's possible to say the claim "was not made." It was the opening segment of the show and the discussion of it went on for about one full minute:

RACHEL MADDOW, HOST:  Good evening, Lawrence.  Thanks very much for that.

And thanks to you at home for staying with us for the next hour.

I‘m here to report that there is nothing wrong in the state of Wisconsin.  Wisconsin is fine.  Wisconsin is great, actually.  Despite what you may have heard about Wisconsin‘s finances, Wisconsin is on track to have a budget surplus this year.

I am not kidding.  I‘m quoting their own version of the Congressional Budget Office, the state‘s own nonpartisan "assess the state‘s finances" agency.  That agency said the month that the new Republican governor of Wisconsin was sworn in, last month, that the state was on track to have a $120 million budget surplus this year.

 

To emphasize the point, you showed graphics on the screen that excerpted the report that supposedly showed the surplus. Any viewer who saw the segment clearly came away with the impression that Wisconsin had a surplus. So it was fair for us to check the claim. Indeed, I think the overwhelming majority of viewers came away with the surprising conclusion that there was a surplus.

 

Did Maddow make clear to viewers that the state actually had a shortfall?

You wrote that it was unfair for us to rate the budget surplus claim because Maddow "did acknowledge, on television, out loud and clearly," that the state was in fact operating under a deficit.

But I disagree with your characterization. In reviewing the segment and transcript, I found that while she mentioned the shortfall, she did not do so "loudly and clearly." She did it, as the PolitiFact Wisconsin article noted, in a comment that criticized Gov. Walker for proposing a $140 million tax cut for businesses. She said:
 

Even though the state had started the year on track to have a budget surplus—now, there is, in fact, a $137 million budget shortfall.  Republican Governor Scott Walker, coincidentally, has given away $140 million worth of business tax breaks since he came into office.

Hey, wait.  That‘s about exactly the size of the shortfall."

 

And while there is a contradiction in her two points, let's consider the prominence of each. Her claim about the surplus was the opening of the show and went on for about one minute. The acknowledgment of the shortfall was made in one brief sentence and it was quickly overshadowed by the next sentence, which made the point that Walker has given away the same amount in business tax breaks.

And contrary to what you said in your e-mail, the PolitiFact Wisconsin article mentioned her comment:

She added a kicker that is also making the rounds: Walker and fellow Republicans in the Legislature this year gave away $140 million in business tax breaks -- so if there is a deficit projected of $137 million, they created it.

 

You said in your e-mail that "Maddow never stated that Gov. Walker's tax cuts caused the state's $137m deficit." While that may technically be true, I am sure that many viewers -- indeed, probably most viewers -- would come away thinking there was a connection between the two.

--------------------------------

As you may know, I was not involved in the editing or Truth-O-Meter rating of the original item, so I came to this with a fresh eye. I've now watched the full segment several times and my response to it has been the same each time: I think any reasonable person who watched Maddow's comments would come away with a couple of clear points:

1. The state doesn't have a budget crisis -- it has a surplus.

2. To the extent there was any surplus, Walker gave it away in business tax breaks.


I think Maddow's wording was artful and careful, but her meaning was very clear. So I don't feel a correction or a clarification is necessary.

As for your point about not being contacted by the reporter, it is our general practice to contact the people we are fact-checking to ask for their sources. But sometimes we don't find it's necessary to do that because the person we're checking has already provided their source, as Maddow did by showing the documents from the agency that makes projections on Wisconsin's finances. Still, it's always best to hear the perspective of the people being checked, so I will remind our staff to make sure they contact the people they are checking.

Regards,

 

Bill Adair

Editor

PolitiFact



Response to Bill Wolff from PolitiFact Wisconsin editor Greg Borowski, sent Feb. 21, 2011

Hi Bill:

Thanks for your note … we sure have a hot issue to follow here in Wisconsin.

We’ve gotten lots of requests from readers to check a host of statements – including many from MSNBC viewers who pointed us to this one in particular wondering if it was true there is no budget shortfall.

I’ve looked over your note, but based on the information provided do not feel a correction or clarification is warranted.

Let me try to respond to your points in order.

First, you begin by questioning the use of a quote Ms. Maddow plainly used in her show. In fact, it was positioned at the very beginning of a segment, in which she stated:

"I’m here to report there is nothing wrong in the state of Wisconsin. Wisconsin is fine. Wisconsin is great, actually. Despite what you may have heard, about Wisconsin’s finances, Wisconsin is on track to have a budget surplus this year."

She goes on to emphasize this point by stating: "I’m not kidding."

Then she very clearly cites her source as the memo from the state’s legislative fiscal bureau. We note this in the item.

If there is an additional source she was using, please feel free to share it with us.

Next, you argue that in our item we are really challenging a Capital Times piece, and "mistakenly ascribe the argument therein to Rachel Maddow." Our item notes that the perception there is no budget crisis has emerged from a variety of quarters among those opposing Gov. Walker’s bill, and mention the Capital Times piece among others.

Contrary to your perception, we are evaluating Ms. Maddow’s statement, not the editorial, though they clearly make some of the same points.

Beyond that, it appears the editorial in question is a source for your own reporting. On the Rachel Maddow blog in a post dated 9:57 a.m. Friday, Feb. 18 -- the morning after the segment aired -- the same editorial is cited. Here is the excerpt from the blog:

He (Walker) says it's because there's a budget crisis going on, but as we reported on the show last night, the "repair" he's calling for would fix the giant dent he made himself. From the Madison Cap Times:

 

It goes on to link to the Capital Times editorial in question and to quote from it.

 

To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes -- or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues -- the "crisis" would not exist.

 

Next, you take issue with a line we included in our piece:

 

"She added a kicker that is also making the rounds: Walker and fellow Republicans in the Legislature this year gave away $140 million in business tax breaks -- so if there is a deficit projected of $137 million, they created it."

 

Your view is that Ms. Maddow made no such claim. You cite this statement as support for your position:

 

MADDOW: Even though the state had started the year on track to have a budget surplus—now, there is, in fact, a $137 million budget shortfall.  Republican Governor Scott Walker, coincidentally, has given away $140 million worth of business tax breaks since he came into office. Hey, wait.  That‘s about exactly the size of the shortfall.

 

If anything, your statement reinforces what we wrote. She cited the shortfall, but only to immediately knocked it down with information about $140 million given away as "business tax breaks" and with this pointed statement: "Hey, wait. That’s about exactly the size of the shortfall."

 

Additionally, I would call your attention to the headline on the Feb. 18, 2011 blog post I cited earlier.

 

That headline reads: "Wisconsin gov made his own problem"

 

As our item clearly noted the tax cuts in question have not yet taken effect, so they cannot be a cause of the current shortfall. That position is reinforced by the very person who wrote the fiscal memo Ms. Maddow cited. In short, he agrees with our interpretation.

 

Finally, your own email acknowledges that Ms. Maddow was inconsistent within her own statements – first saying there was no shortfall, then saying there was (albeit only to immediately knock down that idea with an incorrect statement about the impact of the tax cuts)

 

To me the inconsistency only underlines the need for fact-checking operations like PolitiFact Wisconsin.

 

We stand by our item and our reporting.

 

If you have additional information we should consider, please feel free to submit it to me.

 
Thank you.
 

-- Greg
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 27, 2015, 10:30:33 AM
Straw wont recover.    ;)
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Princess L on February 27, 2015, 10:34:22 AM
It's pointless to argue over a 4 year old video.  The facts are:



We had a $3.6 billion deficit when he got into office and amid all the recall bullshit, protests and the Dems running to Illinois for several weeks to avoid voting on the budget during his entire first term, managed to put us in a $911 million dollar surplus.  Property taxes have gone down and I'm not talking a couple of bucks ~ hundred$.  He identified and eliminated $300 million in waste, fraud, and abuse in the state budget.  Looking forward to when the Right to Work bill crosses his desk for signature now that it's been passed in the  state Senate.

Wages were not cut.  Workers are now required to contribute a small percentage to their healthcare.  Welcome to the real world.  They are also now required to contribute to THEIR OWN pension fund.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 27, 2015, 10:35:44 AM
It's pointless to argue over a 4 year old video.  The facts are:


According to leftists communists that is not a good thing. 
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 27, 2015, 10:45:41 AM
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/article/2011/feb/25/responding-rachel-maddow/

On her Feb. 24, 2011 show, MSNBC host Rachel Maddow criticized PolitiFact Wisconsin and how we handled a request for a correction about a Truth-O-Meter item from a statement on her Feb. 17, 2011 show.

We feel it is important to respond.

First, we have a policy on corrections and review all requests for corrections that we receive. When we've made an error, we acknowledge it, as PolitiFact Oregon did recently with this item.

Maddow's criticism in Thursday's show used artful editing and told an incomplete story. At issue is whether we checked the right factual claim. We examined her statement that Wisconsin "is on track to have a budget surplus this year." But she maintains that in the same segment, she made clear that she knew the state had a shortfall. (You can read a transcript of the entire segment here.)

We chose to examine her surplus claim because we had requests from many readers and it was the main focus at the beginning of her segment. It went on for nearly a minute. Her later statement about the shortfall was very brief and her main point seemed to be that the shortfall was created by $140 million in tax breaks for businesses. Still, we acknowledged in our article that she made that point.

In her criticism of PolitiFact Thursday night, Maddow misled viewers by repeatedly playing just a nine-word snippet of her saying that "There is in fact a $137 million budget shortfall." She neglected to include her full quote in context:

"There is in fact a $137 million budget shortfall. Republican Gov. Scott Walker, coincidentally, has given away $140 million worth of business tax breaks since he came into office. Hey, wait. That's about exactly the size of the shortfall."
False
See related rulings

 

That artful editing -- plus the fact that she didn't mention the more lengthy quote that we checked -- deprived viewers of the full context for her remarks and our reasoning for checking the claim we checked. We not only examined that claim, we also debunked the suggestion from Maddow and others that the tax breaks were the cause of the $137 million shortfall.

When her producer Bill Wolff e-mailed us earlier this week asking for a correction (his correspondence to us has been posted on the Rachel Maddow blog) we reviewed our work, watched the segment and decided no correction was warranted.

Our e-mails are below.

Response to Maddow producer Bill Wolff from PolitiFact Editor Bill Adair, sent Feb. 23, 2011

Bill --

In response to your request for a correction on the PolitiFact Wisconsin article about Rachel Maddow, I have reviewed the article, the show's transcript, your e-mail to Greg Borowski and watched the segment. I don't see anything that warrants a correction or clarification.

Some specifics:

Was it unfair to check this claim?
You wrote in your e-mail that "In short, Politifact alleges that an assertion was made on The Rachel Maddow Show that in fact was not made." Your point was that it was unfair for PolitiFact Wisconsin to fact-check the claim that "the state is on track to have a budget surplus this year."

But I don't see how it's possible to say the claim "was not made." It was the opening segment of the show and the discussion of it went on for about one full minute:

RACHEL MADDOW, HOST:  Good evening, Lawrence.  Thanks very much for that.

And thanks to you at home for staying with us for the next hour.

I‘m here to report that there is nothing wrong in the state of Wisconsin.  Wisconsin is fine.  Wisconsin is great, actually.  Despite what you may have heard about Wisconsin‘s finances, Wisconsin is on track to have a budget surplus this year.

I am not kidding.  I‘m quoting their own version of the Congressional Budget Office, the state‘s own nonpartisan "assess the state‘s finances" agency.  That agency said the month that the new Republican governor of Wisconsin was sworn in, last month, that the state was on track to have a $120 million budget surplus this year.

 

To emphasize the point, you showed graphics on the screen that excerpted the report that supposedly showed the surplus. Any viewer who saw the segment clearly came away with the impression that Wisconsin had a surplus. So it was fair for us to check the claim. Indeed, I think the overwhelming majority of viewers came away with the surprising conclusion that there was a surplus.

 

Did Maddow make clear to viewers that the state actually had a shortfall?

You wrote that it was unfair for us to rate the budget surplus claim because Maddow "did acknowledge, on television, out loud and clearly," that the state was in fact operating under a deficit.

But I disagree with your characterization. In reviewing the segment and transcript, I found that while she mentioned the shortfall, she did not do so "loudly and clearly." She did it, as the PolitiFact Wisconsin article noted, in a comment that criticized Gov. Walker for proposing a $140 million tax cut for businesses. She said:
 

Even though the state had started the year on track to have a budget surplus—now, there is, in fact, a $137 million budget shortfall.  Republican Governor Scott Walker, coincidentally, has given away $140 million worth of business tax breaks since he came into office.

Hey, wait.  That‘s about exactly the size of the shortfall."

 

And while there is a contradiction in her two points, let's consider the prominence of each. Her claim about the surplus was the opening of the show and went on for about one minute. The acknowledgment of the shortfall was made in one brief sentence and it was quickly overshadowed by the next sentence, which made the point that Walker has given away the same amount in business tax breaks.

And contrary to what you said in your e-mail, the PolitiFact Wisconsin article mentioned her comment:

She added a kicker that is also making the rounds: Walker and fellow Republicans in the Legislature this year gave away $140 million in business tax breaks -- so if there is a deficit projected of $137 million, they created it.

 

You said in your e-mail that "Maddow never stated that Gov. Walker's tax cuts caused the state's $137m deficit." While that may technically be true, I am sure that many viewers -- indeed, probably most viewers -- would come away thinking there was a connection between the two.

--------------------------------

As you may know, I was not involved in the editing or Truth-O-Meter rating of the original item, so I came to this with a fresh eye. I've now watched the full segment several times and my response to it has been the same each time: I think any reasonable person who watched Maddow's comments would come away with a couple of clear points:

1. The state doesn't have a budget crisis -- it has a surplus.

2. To the extent there was any surplus, Walker gave it away in business tax breaks.


I think Maddow's wording was artful and careful, but her meaning was very clear. So I don't feel a correction or a clarification is necessary.

As for your point about not being contacted by the reporter, it is our general practice to contact the people we are fact-checking to ask for their sources. But sometimes we don't find it's necessary to do that because the person we're checking has already provided their source, as Maddow did by showing the documents from the agency that makes projections on Wisconsin's finances. Still, it's always best to hear the perspective of the people being checked, so I will remind our staff to make sure they contact the people they are checking.

Regards,

 

Bill Adair

Editor

PolitiFact



Response to Bill Wolff from PolitiFact Wisconsin editor Greg Borowski, sent Feb. 21, 2011

Hi Bill:

Thanks for your note … we sure have a hot issue to follow here in Wisconsin.

We’ve gotten lots of requests from readers to check a host of statements – including many from MSNBC viewers who pointed us to this one in particular wondering if it was true there is no budget shortfall.

I’ve looked over your note, but based on the information provided do not feel a correction or clarification is warranted.

Let me try to respond to your points in order.

First, you begin by questioning the use of a quote Ms. Maddow plainly used in her show. In fact, it was positioned at the very beginning of a segment, in which she stated:

"I’m here to report there is nothing wrong in the state of Wisconsin. Wisconsin is fine. Wisconsin is great, actually. Despite what you may have heard, about Wisconsin’s finances, Wisconsin is on track to have a budget surplus this year."

She goes on to emphasize this point by stating: "I’m not kidding."

Then she very clearly cites her source as the memo from the state’s legislative fiscal bureau. We note this in the item.

If there is an additional source she was using, please feel free to share it with us.

Next, you argue that in our item we are really challenging a Capital Times piece, and "mistakenly ascribe the argument therein to Rachel Maddow." Our item notes that the perception there is no budget crisis has emerged from a variety of quarters among those opposing Gov. Walker’s bill, and mention the Capital Times piece among others.

Contrary to your perception, we are evaluating Ms. Maddow’s statement, not the editorial, though they clearly make some of the same points.

Beyond that, it appears the editorial in question is a source for your own reporting. On the Rachel Maddow blog in a post dated 9:57 a.m. Friday, Feb. 18 -- the morning after the segment aired -- the same editorial is cited. Here is the excerpt from the blog:

He (Walker) says it's because there's a budget crisis going on, but as we reported on the show last night, the "repair" he's calling for would fix the giant dent he made himself. From the Madison Cap Times:

 

It goes on to link to the Capital Times editorial in question and to quote from it.

 

To the extent that there is an imbalance -- Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit -- it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes -- or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues -- the "crisis" would not exist.

 

Next, you take issue with a line we included in our piece:

 

"She added a kicker that is also making the rounds: Walker and fellow Republicans in the Legislature this year gave away $140 million in business tax breaks -- so if there is a deficit projected of $137 million, they created it."

 

Your view is that Ms. Maddow made no such claim. You cite this statement as support for your position:

 

MADDOW: Even though the state had started the year on track to have a budget surplus—now, there is, in fact, a $137 million budget shortfall.  Republican Governor Scott Walker, coincidentally, has given away $140 million worth of business tax breaks since he came into office. Hey, wait.  That‘s about exactly the size of the shortfall.

 

If anything, your statement reinforces what we wrote. She cited the shortfall, but only to immediately knocked it down with information about $140 million given away as "business tax breaks" and with this pointed statement: "Hey, wait. That’s about exactly the size of the shortfall."

 

Additionally, I would call your attention to the headline on the Feb. 18, 2011 blog post I cited earlier.

 

That headline reads: "Wisconsin gov made his own problem"

 

As our item clearly noted the tax cuts in question have not yet taken effect, so they cannot be a cause of the current shortfall. That position is reinforced by the very person who wrote the fiscal memo Ms. Maddow cited. In short, he agrees with our interpretation.

 

Finally, your own email acknowledges that Ms. Maddow was inconsistent within her own statements – first saying there was no shortfall, then saying there was (albeit only to immediately knock down that idea with an incorrect statement about the impact of the tax cuts)

 

To me the inconsistency only underlines the need for fact-checking operations like PolitiFact Wisconsin.

 

We stand by our item and our reporting.

 

If you have additional information we should consider, please feel free to submit it to me.

 
Thank you.
 

-- Greg


Princess L, Did you read this before you posted it or click through the the links

they are debating a 137 million dollar shortfall not a 3.6 billion dollar deficit

all they are arguing about is her claim it was self created by tax cuts

This is from one of the links

Quote
Maddow and others making the claim all cite the same source for their information --  a Jan. 31, 2011 memo prepared by Robert Lang, the director of the nonpartisan Legislative Fiscal Bureau.

It includes this line: "Our analysis indicates a general fund gross balance of $121.4 million and a net balance of $56.4 million."

We were curious about claims of a surplus based on the fiscal bureau memo.

In writing it when it was released, reporters from the Journal Sentinel and Associated Press had put the shortfall at between $78 million and  $340 million. That’s the projection for the end of the fiscal year, June 30, 2011.

Walker himself has settled on $137 million as the deficit figure, a number reporters have adopted as shorthand.

We re-read the fiscal bureau memo, talked to Lang, consulted reporter Jason Stein of the Journal Sentinel’s Madison Bureau, read various news accounts and examined the issue in detail.

Our conclusion: Maddow and the others are wrong.

There is, indeed, a projected deficit that required attention, and Walker and GOP lawmakers did not create it.

More on that second point in a bit.

The confusion, it appears, stems from a section in Lang’s memo that -- read on its own -- does project a $121 million surplus in the state’s general fund as of June 30, 2011.

But the remainder of the routine memo -- consider it the fine print -- outlines $258 million in unpaid bills or expected shortfalls in programs such as Medicaid services for the needy ($174 million alone), the public defender’s office and corrections. Additionally, the state owes Minnesota $58.7 million under a discontinued tax reciprocity deal.

The result, by our math and Lang’s, is the $137 million shortfall.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 27, 2015, 10:48:44 AM
He's run out to find more info which will consist of another video of Rachel Maddow or something from media matters.

keep attacking the messenger

I will be glad to point out in the future that you consider that to be an acceptable argument
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Archer77 on February 27, 2015, 10:52:04 AM
keep attacking the messenger

I will be glad to point out in the future that you consider that to be an acceptable argument

I asked you a simple question about whether you could actually proved what Maddow said was true. It was a request for more information.  You reply was to claim that Maddow must be right because she was is on TV.  You committed yet another logical fallacy.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 27, 2015, 11:00:18 AM
I asked you a simple question about whether you could actually proved what Maddow said was true. It was a request for more information.  You reply was to claim that Maddow must be right because she was is on TV.  You committed yet another logical fallacy.

false

I claimed I presumed she was right because she is a news show and she provided sources for her claim and it had been out there for awhile (more of a standard than almost anything on this board)

If you read my prior post you will see the source of her claim about a surplus and there is no argument from Politifact that the shortfall was a paltry 137 million (care to guess what Walkers current projected deficit will be)

please show a definition of "request for more information"

Here a definition of ad hominem attack

let me know if you recognize it

Quote
An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, means responding to arguments by attacking a person's character, rather than to the content of their arguments. When used inappropriately, it is a fallacy in which a claim or argument is dismissed on the basis of some irrelevant fact or supposition about the author or the person being criticized.[2] Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact or when used in certain kinds of moral and practical reasoning.[3]
Fallacious ad hominem reasoning is normally categorized as an informal fallacy,[4][5][6] more precisely as a genetic fallacy,[7] a subcategory of fallacies of irrelevance.[8]
Ad hominem arguments are the converse of appeals to authority, and may be used in response to such appeals, for example, by pointing to the feet of clay of the authority being pointed to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Princess L on February 27, 2015, 11:02:03 AM
It was never a $3 billion debt. Rather, we faced a $3.6 billion budget shortfall ~ the difference between tax revenue projections and what agencies planned to spend in the next budget.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Archer77 on February 27, 2015, 11:03:54 AM
false

I claimed I presumed she was right because she is a news show and she provided sources for her claim and it had been out there for awhile (more of a standard than almost anything on this board)

If you read my prior post you will see the source of her claim about a surplus and there is no argument from Politifact that the shortfall was a paltry 137 million (care to guess what Walkers current projected deficit will be)

please show a definition of "request for more information"

Here a definition of ad hominem attack

let me know if you recognize it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem



Same thing, you assumed she was right and her sources were accurate based on her position and her political perspective.  You neither bothered to check her facts or check the links she provided for accuracy.  

I don't have strawman as my name while repeatedly committing a multitude of logical fallacies.  And if you'd like to see Ad hominems just read the majority of your posts in this thread.

Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on February 27, 2015, 11:09:46 AM
 ::)
false

I claimed I presumed she was right because she is a news show and she provided sources for her claim and it had been out there for awhile (more of a standard than almost anything on this board)

If you read my prior post you will see the source of her claim about a surplus and there is no argument from Politifact that the shortfall was a paltry 137 million (care to guess what Walkers current projected deficit will be)

please show a definition of "request for more information"

Here a definition of ad hominem attack

let me know if you recognize it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem


Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 27, 2015, 11:28:20 AM
It was never a $3 billion debt. Rather, we faced a $3.6 billion budget shortfall ~ the difference between tax revenue projections and what agencies planned to spend in the next budget.

OK, I've now read various things that support the 3.6 billion number (give or take) and has a projected 1.8 billion gap
http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/wisconsin-state-budget-shortfall-projected-at-nearly-18-billion-b99345660z1-274364501.html

Quote
As we have noted in the past, incoming governors often seek to make the problem large so they can come off as budget-cutting heroes when they submit their plan. Governors leaving office have an incentive to downplay shortfalls to burnish their reputations for fiscal responsibility.

In terms of size, the shortfall that Walker projects is nothing unusual over the last decade. For instance, Doyle estimated a $3.2 billion deficit heading into 2003-2005, and at least $5.4 billion heading into 2009-2011.

The shortfalls are owing in large part to changes in how much money comes in through income and sales tax collections -- which are dependent on the economy among other factors.


http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2013/nov/15/scott-walker/gov-scott-walker-says-he-turned-36-billion-deficit/
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 27, 2015, 11:29:22 AM
Same thing, you assumed she was right and her sources were accurate based on her position and her political perspective.  You neither bothered to check her facts or check the links she provided for accuracy.  

I don't have strawman as my name while repeatedly committing a multitude of logical fallacies.  And if you'd like to see Ad hominems just read the majority of your posts in this thread.



criticizing my screen name

ad hominem much?

please show a definition of "request for more information"
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Archer77 on February 27, 2015, 11:37:21 AM
criticizing my screen name

ad hominem much?

please show a definition of "request for more information"


You presented the Maddow video has being undisputable truth.  I asked you about the veracity of the information Maddow presented in hopes that you would provide the information to myself and others reading this thread.  You responded by admitted you didn't have further information and that such a request was unnecessary because Maddow was on tv therefore she must not be questioned.  Whether I use an ad hominem is irrelevant.  I don't call myself strawman.  If you want examples of ad hominem attacks read your own replies to 333.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Straw Man on February 27, 2015, 02:31:14 PM

You presented the Maddow video has being undisputable truth.  I asked you about the veracity of the information Maddow presented in hopes that you would provide the information to myself and others reading this thread.  You responded by admitted you didn't have further information and that such a request was unnecessary because Maddow was on tv therefore she must not be questioned.  Whether I use an ad hominem is irrelevant.  I don't call myself strawman.  If you want examples of ad hominem attacks read your own replies to 333.

you used ad hominem in this thread and 333 uses it every day (just go read his posts directed at me the last two days)

now can you produce of a definition of "request for more information" or not

just find it online and post a link and then we can see if it applies or not
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: George Whorewell on February 28, 2015, 10:35:47 AM
It was never a $3 billion debt. Rather, we faced a $3.6 billion budget shortfall ~ the difference between tax revenue projections and what agencies planned to spend in the next budget.

Racist post reported.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 2Thick on February 28, 2015, 12:00:05 PM
According to your logic anyone who appears in front of a camera deserves to be believed. You've just validated every piece of fox news video 333 has every posted.

Also, this is another logical fallacy called appeal to authority.

"News"? If you needed any further proof that there are trolls amongst us, you just found it.  ;D

Maybe next we'll read again that the NBPP didn't intimidate any voters, or that doubling the minimum wage won't increase unemployment?






It's not government's job to create jobs in the private (non-govt contractor) sector, nor should they dictate wages.

They can facilitate economic growth by reducing taxes and regulations. Wages go up when there is more business activity, and businesses must compete for workers' services. Of course a secure border and a more favorable business environment might help.

http://www.citylab.com/work/2014/07/the-troubling-decline-of-american-business-dynamism/375353/ (http://www.citylab.com/work/2014/07/the-troubling-decline-of-american-business-dynamism/375353/)

When you start taxing people and corps at 40-50% or more, they will either go elsewhere or produce less - especially when govt provides incentives or additional disincentives.

When Walmart bumps up its entry level hourly wage, it will make it up somehow - layoffs, decreased wages at higher levels, increased prices, perhaps even store closings, etc.

When you start paying entry level fast food workers $15-20 an hour, businesses will lay off workers, increase prices, and in many cases shut down when they're small.

You can always cite a "study" that looked at a govt contractor like Boeing or union-controlled manufacturers who start everybody out at $20-30 or more an hour and say that raising the minimum won't directly impact that particular company - at least not right away, perhaps.

But it's just common sense that such a thing will directly impact many other businesses, which anyone who actually owned or ran a business or even just had a little formal or informal business education would know.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 28, 2015, 12:28:24 PM
why didn't the DOJ prosecute those 2 idiots at the polls?  Case dismissed in Dec 2008.  Disgusting.  Lock them up.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Archer77 on February 28, 2015, 12:35:42 PM
why didn't the DOJ prosecute those 2 idiots at the polls?  Case dismissed in Dec 2008.  Disgusting.  Lock them up.

Because Holder doesn't believe whites can experience racism or racial intimidation.   He's said it outright.  At the time there were several black members of getbig who defended these two fools and denied they were intending to intimidate voters.  I may be wrong but I thought you defended them as well.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 28, 2015, 01:04:40 PM
Because Holder doesn't believe whites can experience racism or racial intimidation.   He's said it outright.  At the time there were several black members of getbig who defended these two fools and denied they were intending to intimidate voters.  I may be wrong but I thought you defended them as well.

???

Dec 2008.   holder wasn't in power yet, obama wasn't in power yet.  

Bush was still in power.  Bush's DOJ is the one you should be blaming.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Archer77 on February 28, 2015, 01:05:31 PM
???

Dec 2008.   holder wasn't in power yet, obama wasn't in power yet.  

Bush was still in power.  Bush's DOJ is the one you should be blaming.

Sorry I meant when it happened again in 2012
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on February 28, 2015, 01:08:54 PM
Sorry I meant when it happened again in 2012

i would firehose any asshole that blocked voting booths.  for sure.  Just knock them down hard.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 2Thick on March 01, 2015, 12:58:39 PM
http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203550604574361071968458430 (http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052970203550604574361071968458430)

Sorry, I was busy watching the "news".






Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: blacken700 on March 02, 2015, 08:14:47 AM
(http://media.zenfs.com/en_us/News/ucomics.com/tt150301.jpg)
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Archer77 on March 03, 2015, 01:23:51 PM
???

Dec 2008.   holder wasn't in power yet, obama wasn't in power yet.  

Bush was still in power.  Bush's DOJ is the one you should be blaming.

I actually looked it up.   The New Black Panthers Party's 08 activities were brought before Holder and the DOJ in 09 and they refused to pursue charges of voter intimidation.  Obama and Holder were both in power at the time.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: 240 is Back on March 03, 2015, 03:37:09 PM
I actually looked it up.   The New Black Panthers Party's 08 activities were brought before Holder and the DOJ in 09 and they refused to pursue charges of voter intimidation.  Obama and Holder were both in power at the time.

correct, holder respected the decision of Bush's DOJ.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: AbrahamG on March 03, 2015, 06:41:32 PM
Granted, he admitted he considered placing rioters into a peaceful protest in order to get it rowdy so police could crush it, so that's a bad thing... but aside from that...

I'm really starting to like Walker.  He keeps making brilliant statements like this:

“I’ve actually never talked about it or I haven’t read about that,” Walker said, his voice calm and firm. “I’ve never asked him that,” he added. “You’ve asked me to make statements about people that I haven’t had a conversation with about that. How [could] I say if I know either of you are a Christian?"
Walker said such questions from reporters are reflective of a broader problem in the nation’s political-media culture, which he described as fixated on issues that are not relevant to most Americans.
“To me, this is a classic example of why people hate Washington and, increasingly, they dislike the press,” he said. “The things they care about don’t even remotely come close to what you’re asking about.”

Walker isn't buying into the typical wedge issue, personal attack/suspicion bullshit that other politicians (of both parties) always choose. 

If he can remain consistent on this - and not just pick and choose which social issues to weigh in on - I'm totally going to like this guy in the 2016 primaries.  It'll be hypocritical if he says "we should focus on economics, I'm not talking about evolution", then he proceeds to scream about 5 popular social issue positions he has.

Would love to see him stay on message - fix the economy - while showing competence on the important issues like defense, and lettting the states deal with the day-to-day drama on wedge issues.

"Stupid is as stupid does".
-F. Gump
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: James on March 06, 2015, 10:56:50 AM
Granted, he admitted he considered placing rioters into a peaceful protest in order to get it rowdy so police could crush it, so that's a bad thing... but aside from that...

I'm really starting to like Walker.  He keeps making brilliant statements like this:

“I’ve actually never talked about it or I haven’t read about that,” Walker said, his voice calm and firm. “I’ve never asked him that,” he added. “You’ve asked me to make statements about people that I haven’t had a conversation with about that. How [could] I say if I know either of you are a Christian?"
Walker said such questions from reporters are reflective of a broader problem in the nation’s political-media culture, which he described as fixated on issues that are not relevant to most Americans.
“To me, this is a classic example of why people hate Washington and, increasingly, they dislike the press,” he said. “The things they care about don’t even remotely come close to what you’re asking about.”

Walker isn't buying into the typical wedge issue, personal attack/suspicion bullshit that other politicians (of both parties) always choose. 

If he can remain consistent on this - and not just pick and choose which social issues to weigh in on - I'm totally going to like this guy in the 2016 primaries.  It'll be hypocritical if he says "we should focus on economics, I'm not talking about evolution", then he proceeds to scream about 5 popular social issue positions he has.

Would love to see him stay on message - fix the economy - while showing competence on the important issues like defense, and lettting the states deal with the day-to-day drama on wedge issues.

My whole family - all Republicans - are voting Obama.  i'm driving them to the station later - buying everyone dinner - making it a real family event.
Title: Re: I'm really starting to like Scott Walker
Post by: Soul Crusher on March 06, 2015, 11:36:28 AM
180 - taking a beating today