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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: herraisland on November 25, 2015, 04:38:08 AM
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going to start using insulin soon as i know exactly what im doing, starting 4iu pre-workout. I have Humalog kwikpen its 300iu pen. my question is... is it must to drink bcaa and creatine monohydrate as a pre, intra and post drink ?
example protocol:
pre- workout:
insulin injection
40gr vitargo and 50gr whey protein
intra workout:
40gr vitargo 50gr whey
post workout:
50gr oats and 50gr whey
post workout:
is this enough or is it crucial to throw in also bcaa in these shakes?
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Waiting for the insulinwhileonketo team to chime in.
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too much intra protein, i'd change it for bcaa powder.
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I recently experimented with insulin (humalog). I went up to 6iu without having to ingest any carbs whatsoever. I'd usually pin post-workout and have my pwo meal/shake with 30g carbs half an hour to an hour after injecting.
Start small, always start as low as possible. My first slin shot was only 2iu. I felt nothing, which is what I hoped to "feel". I went up by 1iu every time after that until I hit 6iu, which is when I started getting sweats and lethargy. For me, anything over 6iu requires carbs to "cover" the insulin. Haven't used slin in the last month and an half or so, not worth it for me since I tend to keep my carbs low in general (I gain fat very easily). I was just curious as to how it works so I gave it a shot for a couple months.
And this:
too much intra protein, i'd change it for bcaa powder.
or EAA powder. But I don't think its crucial to throw it in. It will help with recovery, however, especially when using slin.
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I recently experimented with insulin (humalog). I went up to 6iu without having to ingest any carbs whatsoever. I'd usually pin post-workout and have my pwo meal/shake with 30g carbs half an hour to an hour after injecting.
Start small, always start as low as possible. My first slin shot was only 2iu. I felt nothing, which is what I hoped to "feel". I went up by 1iu every time after that until I hit 6iu, which is when I started getting sweats and lethargy. For me, anything over 6iu requires carbs to "cover" the insulin. Haven't used slin in the last month and an half or so, not worth it for me since I tend to keep my carbs low in general (I gain fat very easily). I was just curious as to how it works so I gave it a shot for a couple months.
And this:or EAA powder. But I don't think its crucial to throw it in. It will help with recovery, however, especially when using slin.
why restrict food so much on slin?
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I lied to u all... lol. I couldn't wait. Did 4iu sub q 15min b4 gym
20min b4 insulin:
30gr oats and 25 gr protein
Insulin shot:
50gr oats and 25gr protein and 3x 2.4gr dextrose sugar tabs
12 min later gym:
Intra drink. 30gr vitargo and 5gr bcaa
Hour later:
Post workout drink
2 whole egg, 50 gr oats and 25gr protein
20min later
Me writing this, feeling fine. A bit lazy tho :)
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Here's what I do. Keep in mind, if you're using GH you'll be able to use more insulin generally. You're not gonna feel shit off 4 iu. I started with 8 of humalog my first time, and worked up to 25 iu preworkout. Yes, 25 iu works much better than 8. Is insulin dangerous? Of course, but you have to really be dumb to harm yourself with it. Right now I'm using 10iu humalog preworkout as I just started it again. I take Serostim am before cardio, then again before bed. Also use T4/T3 combo. I make 2 identical shakes for my slin.. I have my last whole food meal about 2 hours before workout. 15 minutes before workout I take 10 iu humalog. Immediately consume shake with. 40 g peptopro, 5 g Creatine, 5 g glutamine, 2 scoops BCAAs, and 60 g of dextrose. Then sip on exact same shake while working out. Then after workout I have a meal of egg whites and cream of rice or oatmeal. This will put a lot of size on in a short amount of time. No worrying about fat gain with T4/T3 and GH.
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why restrict food so much on slin?
I just wanted to see what slin was all about. I always had glucose tabs on me just in case and OJ in the car. I don't have to eat a lot to grow, I've got fat guy genetics so any time I overeat I get fat no matter what I'm running chemically. I only pinned it on leg and back day and I still have over half of the vial left sitting in my fridge lol. Maybe when I get super lean again I'll use it to grow in the hopes of not gaining too much fat, but until then I won't be touching it again. Plus, I'm not running GH, and from what I understand it works wonders along with GH, but is hit and miss when used on its own.
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Here's what I do. Keep in mind, if you're using GH you'll be able to use more insulin generally. You're not gonna feel shit off 4 iu. I started with 8 of humalog my first time, and worked up to 25 iu preworkout. Yes, 25 iu works much better than 8. Is insulin dangerous? Of course, but you have to really be dumb to harm yourself with it. Right now I'm using 10iu humalog preworkout as I just started it again. I take Serostim am before cardio, then again before bed. Also use T4/T3 combo. I make 2 identical shakes for my slin.. I have my last whole food meal about 2 hours before workout. 15 minutes before workout I take 10 iu humalog. Immediately consume shake with. 40 g peptopro, 5 g Creatine, 5 g glutamine, 2 scoops BCAAs, and 60 g of dextrose. Then sip on exact same shake while working out. Then after workout I have a meal of egg whites and cream of rice or oatmeal. This will put a lot of size on in a short amount of time. No worrying about fat gain with T4/T3 and GH.
4iu just a start. Think I go to 5iu tomorrow. What do u meant not feeling nothing from 4iu. I felt a bit tired in between. Now I feel good almost 3hours later. U think It won't yield any results doing slin under 7iu ?
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4iu just a start. Think I go to 5iu tomorrow. What do u meant not feeling nothing from 4iu. I felt a bit tired in between. Now I feel good almost 3hours later. U think It won't yield any results doing slin under 7iu ?
I meant you're not going to see the benefits of it at 4iu. You have to use a sufficient dose to get results, which I understand you're just starting out with it, but you can go up more than an iu at a time. You'll know when it's working. You will not tire when training, pumps will be painful, and fuller, rounder, pumped all day and all night. I'm experienced with it, but would never go under 10iu. I'll slowly work up to 20-30iu this time. As I said, if using GH, then more insulin can be used. Works much better with GH and thyroid hormone as well.
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I meant you're not going to see the benefits of it at 4iu. You have to use a sufficient dose to get results, which I understand you're just starting out with it, but you can go up more than an iu at a time. You'll know when it's working. You will not tire when training, pumps will be painful, and fuller, rounder, pumped all day and all night. I'm experienced with it, but would never go under 10iu. I'll slowly work up to 20-30iu this time. As I said, if using GH, then more insulin can be used. Works much better with GH and thyroid hormone as well.
U seem to know a lot about insulin... do you think only oats is enough carbs for insulin humalog ? Or is it to slow acting?
Also lets say I use 10iu, do you think 100gr of carbs split in 3 shakes is enough carbs ?
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timing is everything with pre workout slin...
timing of injection, timing of carbs and timing of shakes
you use way too many carbs for 4iu. 4iu is a useless dosage anyway.
anything below 10iu is pointless imo.
you need about 10g carbs per iu OVER THE WHOLE TIME SLIN IS ACTIVE. not per shake.
can use more. can also use less.
less is retarded though. you use slin to push nutrients into the muscle. why restrict nutrients then? ::) i dont get why some retards say use as little carbs as possible lol. completely against the point. unless of course u use 30+ iu or so, then you would just get fat from the ton of carbs you would need to cover it.
just switch a portion of your daily carbs into the intra workout window and thats it.
split the carbs up over 2 hours starting when you inject. get some quickly digested protein in too with the inject. thats it.
fancy shakes are a waste of time. just drink a big ass whey shake with your slin or a couple minutes before. then start ingesting fast acting carbs and working out a couple minutes afterwards.
edits: oats are a very bad choice. if slin hypo hits you you need fast acting carbs. whats the point of oats? they wont even be digested until the slin is already out of your system lol. use dextrose. or simply eat candy during workouts. yup, you got that right.
simple sugars with slin. no oats.
YOU WILL GO HYPO if you use higher dosages of slin and use oats as your carb source. use anything glucose based. if u wanna use liquids use dextrose. if you can eat during workouts use glucose-syrup based candy (no fructose shit or fructose syrup, thats useless)
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timing is everything with pre workout slin...
timing of injection, timing of carbs and timing of shakes
you use way too many carbs for 4iu. 4iu is a useless dosage anyway.
anything below 10iu is pointless imo.
you need about 10g carbs per iu OVER THE WHOLE TIME SLIN IS ACTIVE. not per shake.
can use more. can also use less.
less is retarded though. you use slin to push nutrients into the muscle. why restrict nutrients then? ::) i dont get why some retards say use as little carbs as possible lol. completely against the point. unless of course u use 30+ iu or so, then you would just get fat from the ton of carbs you would need to cover it.
just switch a portion of your daily carbs into the intra workout window and thats it.
split the carbs up over 2 hours starting when you inject. get some quickly digested protein in too with the inject. thats it.
fancy shakes are a waste of time. just drink a big ass whey shake with your slin or a couple minutes before. then start ingesting fast acting carbs and working out a couple minutes afterwards.
edits: oats are a very bad choice. if slin hypo hits you you need fast acting carbs. whats the point of oats? they wont even be digested until the slin is already out of your system lol. use dextrose. or simply eat candy during workouts. yup, you got that right.
simple sugars with slin. no oats.
YOU WILL GO HYPO if you use higher dosages of slin and use oats as your carb source. use anything glucose based. if u wanna use liquids use dextrose. if you can eat during workouts use glucose-syrup based candy (no fructose shit or fructose syrup, thats useless)
Thanks Jizmo. Yes I know 4iu is pretty little. Just a starting dose.. didn't know if I was insulin sensitive or not.
To make it simple
Preworkout drink with slin (let's say 10iu)
100gr dextrose and 25gr whey
15min later in the gym
100gr dextrose and 5-10 bcaa
Postworkout
100gr dextrose 50gr whey
1hour after last shake
Nice meal with low fat and higher carbs
Or should it be 100gr of sugar combined from all these shakes over these 4hours slin is active
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10g per iu IN TOTAL. not in every shake. the whole shake protocol is completely confusing and stupid. imo nobody needs 3 shakes with slin.
also split the carbs over 2 hours. thats enough, even rapid slin is pretty much out of your system after 120-150mins.
also no need to drink a shake and then 15mins later drink another shake. and 200g dextrose within 15mins, youre gonna be puking like a madman.
you will also get fat as fuck from that (yes, THAT is an example of way too many carbs).
slin is not magic. it doesnt just shuttle anything in your blood to your muscles lol. the rate that insulin shuttles glucose is very limited. you cant just eat 500g dextrose and inject some slin and expect all that shit to end up in your muscle.
if you look up the pharmacological properties of insulin:
i think i remember a study that said 10iu of rapid insulin were able to shuttle a maximum of 1-1.5g carbs per minute out of your blood stream. thats 60-90g carbs PER HOUR for 10iu insulin. that was tested via the glucose infusion rate technique.
guess what happens if you have 200g dextrose in 15 minutes. yeah, youre gonna get fat.
look up the absorption speed of dextrose. its completely out of your bloodstream within 30 minutes or so beecause it triggers a huge insulin spike (much higher than the 10iu you would inject beforehand - and thats NOT a good thing)
with dextrose its also MUCH better to sip it throughout the workout.
if you train hard with 10+iu slin in your system you can go hypo if you do a few dropsets or supersets and dont have dextrose for 15 minutes. happened to me more than once. a pre workout shake wont cut it, no matter how much dextrose you put in there.
you also risk reactive hypoglycemia with bolus dosages of dextrose.
the intra BCAAS are also not needed imo.
let me tell you whats easiest and works the best (at least for me).
drink a shake of milk+50g whey. (or mix in some slow digesting protein, so that youre covered for 2 hours or until you can eat a solid meal).
then inject your slin 10-15mins later (give the shake some time to digest first. 50g whey is available in your blood stream for a good 2 hours anyway).
start your workout another 10-15mins later.
as soon as you start your workout you start sipping on a drink with 10g carbs per iu slin.
split the drink through your whole workout, just take a sip after every set.
just carbs in there, no need for BCAAS or whey. your bloodstream will be saturated with amino acids from the pre workout shake anyway.
post workout you can drink another shake with whey and a few carbs (not necessary if you can eat within 30mins or so though).
thats it. simple as fuck and effective. dont know why people always reiterate that retarded 3 shake protocol. i know some guru invented it but its completely unpractical and - imo - stupid. and yes ive tried it too.
you can add leucine (better than BCAAs) and creatine - and if you want glutamine (waste of money imo though) to your pre or intra shake.
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So just carbs in the workout and little after workout ?
Lol, I was reading a lot of forums and all so complicated protocols. I was thinking it must be a more simple way. Reading many forums on the web=mindfuck
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So just carbs in the workout and little after workout ?
Lol, I was reading a lot of forums and all so complicated protocols. I was thinking it must be a more simple way. Reading many forums on the web=mindfuck
I would recommend peptopro or another fast digesting protein in your shake. Just mix the protein with the amount of carbs you need in Gatorade or dextrose. Everyone I know uses creatine and some use glutamine as well. Do not eat any oats or solid food within about 2 hours before workout. You don't want food sitting in your gut, as it defeats the purpose of the slin and shakes. No oats either, the dextrose will cover the slin. I throw BCAAs in there because they're flavored and I get them for free. Drink one shake right after slin shot, sip on the other during workout. 2 shakes total. Clean meal after the gym. Work your ass off in the gym, you will be able to do more work because you will have a shit load more endurance. If you dont bust your ass in the gym, don't bother with this. My brother and friend both 275+ and lean, compete nationally use this protocol. It works. If you're using GH and thyroid, then you can jack the carbs up more with no fear of getting fat. If not, then watch the carbs more.
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I would recommend peptopro or another fast digesting protein in your shake. Just mix the protein with the amount of carbs you need in Gatorade or dextrose. Everyone I know uses creatine and some use glutamine as well. Do not eat any oats or solid food within about 2 hours before workout. You don't want food sitting in your gut, as it defeats the purpose of the slin and shakes. No oats either, the dextrose will cover the slin. I throw BCAAs in there because they're flavored and I get them for free. Drink one shake right after slin shot, sip on the other during workout. 2 shakes total. Clean meal after the gym. Work your ass off in the gym, you will be able to do more work because you will have a shit load more endurance. If you dont bust your ass in the gym, don't bother with this. My brother and friend both 275+ and lean, compete nationally use this protocol. It works. If you're using GH and thyroid, then you can jack the carbs up more with no fear of getting fat. If not, then watch the carbs more.
Thank you, just bought 1kg of dextrose. Going to bump up to 6iu tomorrow.
Do you also take insulin on off days? If so is it similar protocol to insulin preworkout
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Thank you, just bought 1kg of dextrose. Going to bump up to 6iu tomorrow.
Do you also take insulin on off days? If so is it similar protocol to insulin preworkout
Instead of buying dextrose or those fast acting carbs sold in nutrition stores why not just use regular sugar for $2.50/4lb?
You just want fast acting carbs and the fastest acting is sugar. Dextrose is great but I don't think it's worth the extra cost.
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Sugar is not the fastest acting. Dextrose and sucrose(table sugar) are not absorbed at the same rate. Dextrose is identical to glucose(blood sugar), and is ready to be absorbed, and is absorbed the fastest. Sucrose is made up one molecule of fructose and one molecule of glucose and is absorbed at a slower rate because the digestive enzymes must break down the sucrose. The glucose goes to the small intestine for absorption, but the fructose goes to the liver for further metabolism. So don't use sucrose, use dextrose. I don't use insulin on off days from the gym. Only use it during training.
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this^^
sugar is half fructose half dextrose. fructose is useless for slin use. additionally your liver only stores ~50grams of fructose, anything else goes straight into your bodyfat if its not burned off. so if you try to cover 15ius of slin with 150g sugar you WILL gain bodyfat.
dextrose is a much better choice and also has a higher glycemic index.
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Sucrose may not be as fast acting as glucose but is it fast enough? Is the difference that huge? How many eat bananas when they are going hypo and are fine within minutes? Or those that drink fruit juice when getting symptoms? Remember Mike Morris said in his interview how he rushed home after getting symptoms and ate oat meal? Oat meal. A complex carb.
And whether you eat oatmeal, a banana or jelly beans all carbs are converted to glucose.
A fella I know who uses insulin left a vial in his car and wasn't sure if it was still good. He injected 10iu of Humulin R first thing in the morning on an empty stomach and waited. After about 35 minutes he felt himself going hypo. Started sweating and getting groggy. Drank a glass of apple juice spike with 5 table spoons of sugar and was fine within minutes. Had a good breakfast and went about his day. The insulin went back in the fridge and was good to go.
Lets not forget gh15 always talking about drinking pineapple juice, fructose, to get him out of hypo.
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It's fine in an emergency, then consume anything you can get your hands on. Diabetics carry glucose tabs on them, not sucrose tabs. In the hospitals glucagon is given, which is dextrose. Use the fastest acting available, which is dextrose. Mike Morris is not a bright guy, or it makes a good story...Ran home and ate oats? He had no form of simple sugars in his house? Shit, get a friggin soda and drink it instead of eating oats.. That's retarded.
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lol hopefully 10iu not cc pellius :D
and yeah, ive left a half used insulin vial in my drawer (not cooled), 3 months later it had lost ZERO potency. insulin is very stable.
and yes, ALL carbs work with insulin, but fructuse is WAY inferior to glucose for the reasons i mentioned.
oats are also borderline DANGEROUS, because they take forever to be broken down into glucose molecules.
you want to use the most PREDICTABLE carbs with insulin. whole foods are a very bad choice imo.
only "whole food" you could use is candy. it raises your blood glucose within a minute or two, ive tested that. basically just as fast as a glucose-liquid.
some guys use gatorade. its WORKS too. however its inferior (unless theres gatorade with pure glucose in it, i dont know).
fruit juices are also a bad choice.
i would use as much glucose and as little fructose as possible fructose is simply useless.
It's fine in an emergency, then consume anything you can get your hands on. Diabetics carry glucose tabs on them, not sucrose tabs. In the hospitals glucagon is given, which is dextrose. Use the fastest acting available, which is dextrose. Mike Morris is not a bright guy, or it makes a good story...Ran home and ate oats? He had no form of simple sugars in his house? Shit, get a friggin soda and drink it instead of eating oats.. That's retarded.
very true.
HOWEVER glucagon is a hormone though, it has nothing to do with glucose ;)
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You're correct about glucagon, I meant to say amps of D50(dextrose) are given in the emergency room.
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Did 5iu in the morning and 6iu preworkout. Think I move up to 8 or 10iu tomorrow.
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Some great info but I'm still not crazy about taking insulin pre workout and would much rather try it post workout.
Can some of the more experienced users offer a kind of step by step for that process as was offered for preworkout? Thanks
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umm... read the first page of this thread? :D
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umm... read the first page of this thread? :D
Oh OK. So the routine after the insulin shot is the same pre workout or post workout. Correct?
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ah i thought u wanted a routine for pre workout use.
well, for post workout you dont really need a routine imo.
just inject and eat.
get in 10g carbs per iu right after injecting. with post workout use youre much less likely to go hypo.
i can inject 7-8iu novolog and nothing happens to my blood sugar. you have enough liver glycogen to balance out the drop in blood sugar levels.
HOWEVER inject 7-8iu and THEN GO WORKOUT though and thats a WHOLE different story, instant hypo and close to fainting.
PWO you can probably use complex carbs. if you use simple carbs you will need to spread them out over about 2 hours.
i actually never used slin post workout since its against the point of slin imo. its an extremely strong anti catabolic and it allows you to take up more glycogen with a delay of a couple hours (because of glut4 translocation). so post workout use never made any sense to me physiologically
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ah i thought u wanted a routine for pre workout use.
well, for post workout you dont really need a routine imo.
just inject and eat.
get in 10g carbs per iu right after injecting. with post workout use youre much less likely to go hypo.
i can inject 7-8iu novolog and nothing happens to my blood sugar. you have enough liver glycogen to balance out the drop in blood sugar levels.
HOWEVER inject 7-8iu and THEN GO WORKOUT though and thats a WHOLE different story, instant hypo and close to fainting.
PWO you can probably use complex carbs. if you use simple carbs you will need to spread them out over about 2 hours.
i actually never used slin post workout since its against the point of slin imo. its an extremely strong anti catabolic and it allows you to take up more glycogen with a delay of a couple hours (because of glut4 translocation). so post workout use never made any sense to me physiologically
Yeah I suppose for some individuals, pre workout injection is the way to go but the thought of going hypo in the gym isn't very appealing. Ill be rethinking any idea of doing more insulin if its pointless to take it post workout, even though there seems to be quite a bit of information on the net that would suggest otherwise. But I do value your input. Thanks
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It's fine in an emergency, then consume anything you can get your hands on. Diabetics carry glucose tabs on them, not sucrose tabs. In the hospitals glucagon is given, which is dextrose. Use the fastest acting available, which is dextrose. Mike Morris is not a bright guy, or it makes a good story...Ran home and ate oats? He had no form of simple sugars in his house? Shit, get a friggin soda and drink it instead of eating oats.. That's retarded.
Of course if you are going to make a product specifically design for diabetics that go hypo you would use glucose. I don't know how you are able to determine the intelligence level of Mike Morris. He was a top pro bodybuilder and didn't strike me as a dullard in his interviews. But, be that as it may, the oatmeal served it's purpose and got him out of hypo. There is zero reason to make it up as it doesn't add to the story if he drank soda or ate bananas.
But whether someone uses sucrose or dextrose is not an issue I want to go tooth and nail for. On Amazon.com a 10lb bag of dextrose cost $52. The same bag of sugar cost $5 at a grocery store. If one feels that it makes that much of a difference then who am I to say they shouldn't. It might me noted that a real diabetic that produces no insulin is never advised to consume a pure sugar and just eat a regular meal with their slin whether it's humulin R or humalog.
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lol hopefully 10iu not cc pellius :D
and yeah, ive left a half used insulin vial in my drawer (not cooled), 3 months later it had lost ZERO potency. insulin is very stable.
and yes, ALL carbs work with insulin, but fructuse is WAY inferior to glucose for the reasons i mentioned.
oats are also borderline DANGEROUS, because they take forever to be broken down into glucose molecules.
you want to use the most PREDICTABLE carbs with insulin. whole foods are a very bad choice imo.
only "whole food" you could use is candy. it raises your blood glucose within a minute or two, ive tested that. basically just as fast as a glucose-liquid.
some guys use gatorade. its WORKS too. however its inferior (unless theres gatorade with pure glucose in it, i dont know).
fruit juices are also a bad choice.
i would use as much glucose and as little fructose as possible fructose is simply useless.
very true.
HOWEVER glucagon is a hormone though, it has nothing to do with glucose ;)
LOL @ 10cc. Hope I didn't kill anybody. If so, sorry.
I corrected my post.
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Yeah I suppose for some individuals, pre workout injection is the way to go but the thought of going hypo in the gym isn't very appealing. Ill be rethinking any idea of doing more insulin if its pointless to take it post workout, even though there seems to be quite a bit of information on the net that would suggest otherwise. But I do value your input. Thanks
Milos Sarcev, whom many consider the one who introduced the use of insulin into pro bbing and how to properly use it for muscle hypertrophy, states his reasoning for using insulin pre workout.
http://cleanhealth.com.au/interview-former-ifbb-pro-milos-sarcev/
So here is rationale behind it. Men have about 5L of blood and women have about 4L distributed all over the body which is constantly circulating around. In a state of rest at maximum about 10 -12 % of that blood finds its way in to our skeletal muscles, as there is no real physiological demand at the time of a low physical activity period. However, when we become active, blood is sent to our working muscles… and that increased blood flow to exercising muscles (Hyperemia) can achieve an astonishing 60% increase in blood flow or more during weight training. This happens ONLY during the workout!
So as my father suggested, if I supply all the necessary anabolic nutrients in a pre-digested form (e.g; ATP, glucose, amino acids etc) into the blood stream right before training and then continue delivering more of the same nutrients during my training session whilst raising the most anabolic hormone in our body – insulin – I will create an immediate and maximal anabolic environment.
So instead of loosing nutrients (protein degradation or catabolism) we are creating a greater nutritional uptake by our muscle cells (protein synthesis or anabolism) and simultaneously preventing anti-catabolism… everything we need to great the maximal results we are after. So we need to remember that we only have this opportunity during training, not before or after as blood will not be in the muscle to this extent.
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Of course if you are going to make a product specifically design for diabetics that go hypo you would use glucose. I don't know how you are able to determine the intelligence level of Mike Morris. He was a top pro bodybuilder and didn't strike me as a dullard in his interviews. But, be that as it may, the oatmeal served it's purpose and got him out of hypo. There is zero reason to make it up as it doesn't add to the story if he drank soda or ate bananas.
But whether someone uses sucrose or dextrose is not an issue I want to go tooth and nail for. On Amazon.com a 10lb bag of dextrose cost $52. The same bag of sugar cost $5 at a grocery store. If one feels that it makes that much of a difference then who am I to say they shouldn't. It might me noted that a real diabetic that produces no insulin is never advised to consume a pure sugar and just eat a regular meal with their slin whether it's humulin R or humalog.
50$ for 10lbs dextrose? is it enriched with diamonds? lol
dextrose costs 1€ per lb here, still abut twice as much as sugar but sugar is only half dextrose. so id just go with dextrose^^
good post on milos there
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50$ for 10lbs dextrose? is it enriched with diamonds? lol
dextrose costs 1€ per lb here, still abut twice as much as sugar but sugar is only half dextrose. so id just go with dextrose^^
good post on milos there
I did find a 7 lb bag for 25.99 but it's "unflavored". I'll definitely save myself a few pennies for unflavored sugar lol.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008P5SVVM/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_rd_p=1944687442&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B008GQ2JPO&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0E8G0JJ99K7KEE9NKBHB
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http://www.amazon.com/Honeyville-Farms-Dextrose-Pound-Bag/dp/B0097FJK46/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1448703898&sr=8-12&keywords=dextrose
there u go, insulin use for the next 20 years covered, lol
you could also just buy candy with glucose syrup as main ingredient. you can get that shit for 1-2$/lb too.
its also better to just eat 5oz of gummi bears during a workout than drinking a disgustingly sweet liquid with 5oz dextrose in it.
and you get those funny looks ;D
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I never could do the pre workout slin. hated drinking anything other than water during my workouts. always felt a little tired. I do all mine post workout and later in day. like jizmo says, inject and eat. I inject 10iu gh, wait 15 min, shoot, start eating and drinking. biggest meal of the day. seems to work well for me.
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Jeff King. No GH, no insulin, no peptides, and no cycles you need a Phd to understand.
With all the options why chose one that could kill you?
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because not everyone wants to look like a walking dick :D
in all seriousness, because insulin works and it works fast
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Jeff King. No GH, no insulin, no peptides, and no cycles you need a Phd to understand.
With all the options why chose one that could kill you?
KILL YOU?
C'mon man. Anyone who lets that happen is dumb beyond belief. You're a smart guy but this whole "insulin will kill you" is soooo been stated and overplayed, it's like anything in this world of chemical assistance.
Respect the gear, it will respect you. Most the time... But hypo symptoms are like no other. You will eat out of instincts or die.
Yes that guy pictured is jacked, did not use slin, but today people wanna explore their options and slin is rather cheap and works well for most.
Kill you... ::) ::) ::)
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because not everyone wants to look like a walking dick :D
in all seriousness, because insulin works and it works fast
So fast is what it's all about? Let's face it it can also lead to other negative side effects like that bloofy look. I will admit I have old school beliefs but in the end physiques today don't look that great. Also there are kids who read your recommendations and are not as diligent as you.
KILL YOU?
C'mon man. Anyone who lets that happen is dumb beyond belief. You're a smart guy but this whole "insulin will kill you" is soooo been stated and overplayed, it's like anything in this world of chemical assistance.
Respect the gear, it will respect you. Most the time... But hypo symptoms are like no other. You will eat out of instincts or die.
Yes that guy pictured is jacked, did not use slin, but today people wanna explore their options and slin is rather cheap and works well for most.
Kill you... ::) ::) ::)
I am not a fan but that does mean I deserve an ::). Most don't respect the gear based on all the cycles I read on many forums so why would they repect slin? Everything is about grams blah blah and guys look like shit.
Oh and one idiot I know thought the one on the slin pin was one IU of slin and not the ten which it is.
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hahaha on the slin pin unit!!! Something ya better know before hand, oh man... Ok, alright, I take back the ::) even though I just posted one there, lol...
I know you look the part so you have my respect.
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hahaha on the slin pin unit!!! Something ya better know before hand, oh man... Ok, alright, I take back the ::) even though I just posted one there, lol...
I know you look the part so you have my respect.
Ha thanks Rich. :D That only scratches the surface of the crazy/idiotic things I have seen!
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Ha thanks Rich. :D That only scratches the surface of the crazy/idiotic things I have seen!
they do make the best stories though... I don't really have any. Just seen guys get pinned after training, no shower, the person touching the given spot with his bare unwashed hands then not switching the tip and giving the shot, lol...
Nothing really that crazy in person.
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Oh and one idiot I know thought the one on the slin pin was one IU of slin and not the ten which it is.
darwinism at its finest. imo people who decide to use slin and do THESE kind of mistakes dont deserve any better.
thats the risk that goes with it, if you dont prepare your stupid ass then suffer the consequences.
these people are the ones giving bodybuilding a bad rep.
they do make the best stories though... I don't really have any. Just seen guys get pinned after training, no shower, the person touching the given spot with his bare unwashed hands then not switching the tip and giving the shot, lol...
Nothing really that crazy in person.
i know that topic is controversial BUT my personal opinion on the topic is that the whole infection thing is one of the way most overblown myths ever!
i often inject in the morning right after getting up, after a night of tren sweats and gym the night before and dont even wipe my skin beforehand.
i usually shower before injections but sometimes i dont, if im in a hurry or whatever...
i mustve already pushed a billion bacteria under my skin through injections and never had an infection.
the only abscesses ive had were from repeated injections into the same spot with gear with too high of a concentration. that shit makes you get abscesses like crazy, not injecting in unsterile environment...
think about the BILLION of bacteria, viruses and pathogens you ingest through your mucous membranes every day.
your body gets rid of bacteria under the skin just like any other bacteria
i also think dirty gear is much more likely to cause infections than "dirty injecting"
maybe ill change my mind when my arm falls off from an infection, but im just being honest here.
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haha Jiz, well, the one time I did not follow my usual "take a shower first, rinse hands under alcohol, wipe area and so on, guess who had to go see the doc for some keelflex, lol!?
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darwinism at its finest. imo people who decide to use slin and do THESE kind of mistakes dont deserve any better.
thats the risk that goes with it, if you dont prepare your stupid ass then suffer the consequences.
these people are the ones giving bodybuilding a bad rep.
i know that topic is controversial BUT my personal opinion on the topic is that the whole infection thing is one of the way most overblown myths ever!
i often inject in the morning right after getting up, after a night of tren sweats and gym the night before and dont even wipe my skin beforehand.
i usually shower before injections but sometimes i dont, if im in a hurry or whatever...
i mustve already pushed a billion bacteria under my skin through injections and never had an infection.
the only abscesses ive had were from repeated injections into the same spot with gear with too high of a concentration. that shit makes you get abscesses like crazy, not injecting in unsterile environment...
think about the BILLION of bacteria, viruses and pathogens you ingest through your mucous membranes every day.
your body gets rid of bacteria under the skin just like any other bacteria
i also think dirty gear is much more likely to cause infections than "dirty injecting"
maybe ill change my mind when my arm falls off from an infection, but im just being honest here.
Totally agree with this. Not to say that means you shouldn't take normal precautions but the constant talk of abscesses/infections isn't as common as one would be led to believe.
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I was scared shitless thinking my arm had to be cut off, hahaha...
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I was scared shitless thinking my arm had to be cut off, hahaha...
I doubt it was even close to what Bostin had. Looked like flesh eating disease!
Now that's swole! ;)
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Do you feel right away effects of slin ? It's my 3 or 4 day I'm up to 12iu and 10iu per day. Haven't got any sign of hypo. Today I used 12iu preworkout and drank protein and oats right after, then 15min later I drank over the 1hour workout 70gr of dextrose and post workout protein and oats. I have never feel tiredness or no special pump. Is it me who have high tolerance or pen not working(hardly doubt it. Always in the fridge).
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Jeff King. No GH, no insulin, no peptides, and no cycles you need a Phd to understand.
With all the options why chose one that could kill you?
Because we weren't born like Jeff King. Few had the options that Jeff had vis-a-vis bodybuilding.
I remember when he first got some fame after winning the America. Just mind boggling. Then he seemed to just disappear. I don't think he ever competed in the IFBB so that might have hurt his publicity.
Just such a gifted bodybuilder.
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Totally agree with this. Not to say that means you shouldn't take normal precautions but the constant talk of abscesses/infections isn't as common as one would be led to believe.
Yes, chances are if you got an infection it's because of unsterile gear, usually water based ug. Remember as a kid wiping out on your bike and ripping the skin off your elbow on the filthy sidewalk germ infested side walk or stepping on broken glass on the road. I remember as a boy stepping on rusted nail at a construction site. It went right through my slippers and right in my heel. Just limped home, washed it off and put a band aid on it. That nail has been sitting there forever picking up germs, push the germs on my slipper from walking on the ground stepping on dog shit, and right into my dirty unwashed heels.
This is not to be confused with a STERILE abcess. I had a friend that just kept injecting into his traps. He injected EVERDAY, never giving a chance for the oil to dissipate. He thought he had developed traps but when I touched it it felt like a water balloon. Spongy. I told him it wasn't muscle but just oil. I ended up draining over 60cc of fluid out of each of his traps.
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Because we weren't born like Jeff King. Few had the options that Jeff had vis-a-vis bodybuilding.
I remember when he first got some fame after winning the America. Just mind boggling. Then he seemed to just disappear. I don't think he ever competed in the IFBB so that might have hurt his publicity.
Just such a gifed bodybuilder.
Not sure what you mean as far as options. I knew him and trained with him a few times when I lived in Western MA. He knew it was time for him to move on from the bb politics and finish his education. He became a doctor in physical therapy and has worked in the western MA area where he went to college undergrad. He trained balls to the wall with heavy compound movements and his diet was always spot on and ahead of its time.
There is a interview with him somewhere where he discussed how complex the chemistry has become in modern bb.
He is featured in this article and is well respected in his field.
http://healthcarenews.com/a-leap-of-progress-sportsmetrics-helps-female-athletes-jump-higher-not-harder/
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Not sure what you mean as far as options. I knew him and trained with him a few times when I lived in Western MA. He knew it was time for him to move on from the bb politics and finish his education. He became a doctor in physical therapy and has worked in the western MA area where he went to college undergrad. He trained balls to the wall with heavy compound movements and his diet was always spot on and ahead of its time.
There is a interview with him somewhere where he discussed how complex the chemistry has become in modern bb.
He is featured in this article and is well respected in his field.
http://healthcarenews.com/a-leap-of-progress-sportsmetrics-helps-female-athletes-jump-higher-not-harder/
What I meant by the options he had that the rest of us didn't is his genetic gifts. There are many out there that train balls to the wall and will never carry the amount of lean muscle he has. There are some not as genetically gifted that can be as advanced or more so in term of lean muscle mass with the use of high dosages of AAS, hgh and insulin. I don't think someone like, say, Jay Cutler was as genetically gifted as Jeff, but through the use and abuse of hormones he was able to exceed that amount of muscle mass Jeff carried. Whether or not one think that's an improvement is a subjective evaluation.
Can't believe that's a picture of Jeff. Even when a bber leaves the sport and stops training and shrinks considerably I can still see it's the same person. Not so with this picture which I am assuming is Jeff because you posted it.
Still good for him. He found a rewarding career and I assume he is healthy, happy and fulfilled. People here should always keep in mind that you can achieve these things in life without having big muscles.
I'll check out the link now. (Should have first before posting.)
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Do you feel right away effects of slin ? It's my 3 or 4 day I'm up to 12iu and 10iu per day. Haven't got any sign of hypo. Today I used 12iu preworkout and drank protein and oats right after, then 15min later I drank over the 1hour workout 70gr of dextrose and post workout protein and oats. I have never feel tiredness or no special pump. Is it me who have high tolerance or pen not working(hardly doubt it. Always in the fridge).
just wait half an hour before drinking your shake after you shot your slin and youll feel it lol
well, DONT DO THAT ffs ;D
it takes about 30 minutes until insulin starts lowering your blood sugar. that does NOT mean it doesnt work right away though.
i dont know if this is true but i ASSUME if you inject slin and dont eat, your body releases all stored liver glycogen in order to keep blood sugar stable.
this is a safety mechanism, because insulin is draining sugar from your blood all the time - if its not there then your body has to get it from somewhere in order to keep you from fainting.
i mean thats essentially what liver glycogen is for, its an energy reserve. kind of a buffer for dropping blood sugar. if you eat right after ur injection then your liver glycogen stores stay full, because well, your blood sugar raises because of your meal.
now with a liver full of glycogen you always have a buffer even during your workout. youre very unlikely to go hypo if you ingest carbs after a slin shot because the liver holds around 100g of carbs or so.
now if you do that on a keto diet where your liver glycogen is completely depleted you will go hypo INSANELY FAST during workouts.
ive also experimented with letting the insulin kick in before eating and starting my workout. i basically waited 30-40min after my injection and then took my shake. during that time i assume the insulin completely emptied my liver glycogen. even with the VERY SAME intra workout nutrition as usually i was on the verge of hypo ALL THE TIME during my workout, because the liver glycogen as a buffer was just not there anymore. very uncomfortable.
this does not happen if you simply start ingesting carbs right away with the slin shot.
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Insulin does work pretty quick but how quick you feel it depends on how what type of slin you use and how much. After injecting insulin and it gets into your system your blood sugar starts to lower but you don't feel it until it starts to get pretty low. Normal fasting blood sugar levels are around 70-90 mg/dl. Most are around 80 mg/dl. So after you take insulin even when it drops to 60 you won't really feel it. Of course as it gets lower symptoms will come on gradually. That's why insulin is relatively safe if you know what you are doing and know what the symptoms are. 100 of millions of people use insulin safely everyday. You get a lot of warning signs and you have to take a lot of slin for it to be fatal or cause brain damage. You take 10ius on an empty stomach you may pass out but there is more than enough sugar stored in your liver and muscles to not present a danger. In fact, I would recommend that you take say 8iu of Humulin R and wait for about a half hour so you have an idea of the symptoms as it GRADUALLY comes on. Have a friend there, have your glucose tabs and some gatorade with 40 grams of sugar in it. Down that drink and you will feel the symptoms disappear almost immediately. Sugar, even sucrose, is essentially predigested carbs and goes into the blood stream without having to go through the whole digestive process.
Why do this? Why did I do this as an experiment on myself (I don't use insulin)? It's because the symptoms do come on so gradually that people often ignore it. That's when you get into trouble and pass out. You want to know and be very familiar with the symptoms when you are going hypo. Best to do it in a controlled environment rather than find yourself driving or away from any sugar source and have hypo hit.
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there are a couple mistakes in there^
muscle glycogen does not help at all if you inject insulin. your body cant just suck the glycogen out of your muscles to avoid hypo. only liver glycogen helps
its also impossible to ignore the signs of hypo.
below a blood glucose of 60 your body goes into fight or flight mode HARD. its IMPOSSIBLE to ignore that. you start to sweat, adrenaline gets pumped out like crazy, heart rate increases. vision gets blurry. you wont be able to think straight anymore.
if blood sugar drops too low (50 or even 40) most people get very disoriented. you wont even be able to solve the simplest math questions anymore and youll be completely dizzy and irritated until you get some sugar in.
if you can still find your fridge.
completely serious here. its a vicious circle, once your BS drops too low youre much more likely to fuck up. so dont let it drop low to begin with.
ive let my BS drop down below 50 before, testwise. VERY uncomfortable experience. feels like youre on drugs.
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Why take the risk?
Honest question.
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Why take the risk?
Honest question.
because i trust myself in terms of not being a retard
there only is a risk if you are beyond dumb.
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because i trust myself in terms of not being a retard
there only is a risk if you are beyond dumb.
Not really what I'm asking... What's the point of temporary gains for long term health risks and in the case of insulin potential immediate risks...
I was also very confident in my intellect in my youth. Age has tempered that confidence (arrogance) leading me to avoid some behaviours that I previously accepted as safe enough...
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there are a couple mistakes in there^
muscle glycogen does not help at all if you inject insulin. your body cant just suck the glycogen out of your muscles to avoid hypo. only liver glycogen helps
its also impossible to ignore the signs of hypo.
below a blood glucose of 60 your body goes into fight or flight mode HARD. its IMPOSSIBLE to ignore that. you start to sweat, adrenaline gets pumped out like crazy, heart rate increases. vision gets blurry. you wont be able to think straight anymore.
if blood sugar drops too low (50 or even 40) most people get very disoriented. you wont even be able to solve the simplest math questions anymore and youll be completely dizzy and irritated until you get some sugar in.
if you can still find your fridge.
completely serious here. its a vicious circle, once your BS drops too low youre much more likely to fuck up. so dont let it drop low to begin with.
ive let my BS drop down below 50 before, testwise. VERY uncomfortable experience. feels like youre on drugs.
It is possible to ignore it and it does happen. I have this guy at work who passes out several times during the course of a year because of low blood sugar. He gets so involved in his work that he just seems unaware of it. We actually have a drawer where we keep those glucose gel packs which we have used before. Also, my aunt is a diabetic and though she is more aware she has had episodes. People get so involved in things that by the time they realize they are going hypo it's starting to effect their motor abilities and thinking process. Most people who have experience know what to do and get it taken care of before they pass out but imagine if you are driving and wait until you actually get disorientated.
But symptom will become very hard to ignore if you are aware of the fact that you are a diabetic or have exo insulin in your system. And you are right about not being able to release sugar from the muscles. I don't know what I was thinking. I was going hypo... ;D
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But symptom will become very hard to ignore if you are aware of the fact that you are a diabetic or have exo insulin in your system. And you are right about not being able to release sugar from the muscles. I don't know what I was thinking. I was going hypo... ;D
;D ;D
damn, yeah i didnt really think about diabetics. they gotta inject insulin several times a day. for them its probably such a habitual thing that they might forget it.
if u use insulin pre workout you gotta prepare your shake and your intra nutrition beforehand anyway, if you forget that you just injected insulin then yeah thats kinda stupid =D i do know some guys who would fall into that category though lol. AAS users are often pretty out of it mentally and a couple guys i know would probably fuck it up.
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What I meant by the options he had that the rest of us didn't is his genetic gifts. There are many out there that train balls to the wall and will never carry the amount of lean muscle he has. There are some not as genetically gifted that can be as advanced or more so in term of lean muscle mass with the use of high dosages of AAS, hgh and insulin. I don't think someone like, say, Jay Cutler was as genetically gifted as Jeff, but through the use and abuse of hormones he was able to exceed that amount of muscle mass Jeff carried. Whether or not one think that's an improvement is a subjective evaluation.
Can't believe that's a picture of Jeff. Even when a bber leaves the sport and stops training and shrinks considerably I can still see it's the same person. Not so with this picture which I am assuming is Jeff because you posted it.
Still good for him. He found a rewarding career and I assume he is healthy, happy and fulfilled. People here should always keep in mind that you can achieve these things in life without having big muscles.
I'll check out the link now. (Should have first before posting.)
Yes thats Jeff and I still see him and his thick neck haha! You have to consider he competed in his teens and 20's and is now in his 50's. He also looks down 40lbs is my guess based on his lean face. I think he looks great.
Looks like an older and thinner version..at least to me.
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Not really what I'm asking... What's the point of temporary gains for long term health risks and in the case of insulin potential immediate risks...
I was also very confident in my intellect in my youth. Age has tempered that confidence (arrogance) leading me to avoid some behaviours that I previously accepted as safe enough...
The gains of everything you take are not permanent, slin no different...
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The gains of everything you take are not permanent, slin no different...
Right. Everything in life is temporary -- even life itself.
And there's a difference between use and abuse. The vast majority of people live longer and healthier lives due to insulin. There is a doctor, not mainstream, who recommends insulin use even in non diabetics to keep blood sugar on the low side to minimize glycation (A1c) which is what is killing you and something everyone has to some extent. This is why the only thing thus far that has been proven to extend life is calorie restriction. Low calories means low blood sugar means less glycation. Exo insulin helps your body keep blood sugar on the low normal side (70mg/dl). It makes a difference in the long run.
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Right. Everything in life is temporary -- even life itself.
And there's a difference between use and abuse. The vast majority of people live longer and healthier lives due to insulin. There is a doctor, not mainstream, who recommends insulin use even in non diabetics to keep blood sugar on the low side to minimize glycation (A1c) which is what is killing you and something everyone has to some extent. This is why the only thing thus far that has been proven to extend life is calorie restriction. Low calories means low blood sugar means less glycation. Exo insulin helps your body keep blood sugar on the low normal side (70mg/dl). It makes a difference in the long run.
Yup! Palumbo once said something along those lines.
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were abusers though :D
injecting big amounts of exo insulin and then raising your blood sugar with dextrose/"crap carbs" to match the insulin dose will certainly not be beneficial towards longevity ;D
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were abusers though :D
injecting big amounts of exo insulin and then raising your blood sugar with dextrose/"crap carbs" to match the insulin dose will certainly not be beneficial towards longevity ;D
As long as you're going in eyes open.... No objections from me.
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were abusers though :D
injecting big amounts of exo insulin and then raising your blood sugar with dextrose/"crap carbs" to match the insulin dose will certainly not be beneficial towards longevity ;D
speaking of crap carbs... Was it Chad Nichols who guys eating that pie crust around their slin shots?
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speaking of crap carbs... Was it Chad Nichols who guys eating that pie crust around their slin shots?
wasnt it pie filling? custard or something. yeah why not, its the same as sugar basically. maybe even has more glucose, all artificial anyway.
probably a good way to cover 20iu upwards. extremely dense in carbs, like jam or any other sugary spread.
you could easily down a pound of jam within minutes. that would be 200g carbs easily. good for the guys who eat like birds, but id rather stick to my candy :)
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wasnt it pie filling? custard or something. yeah why not, its the same as sugar basically. maybe even has more glucose, all artificial anyway.
probably a good way to cover 20iu upwards. extremely dense in carbs, like jam or any other sugary spread.
you could easily down a pound of jam within minutes. that would be 200g carbs easily. good for the guys who eat like birds, but id rather stick to my candy :)
Was pie something, a gimmick of sorts to distinguish himself from the others I think. All this slin talk has me tempted to start back up but it just does not make me stronger or much bigger for all the extra food needed as I already need a stupid amount of carbs to grow (over 600 or forget it and 600 is a low estimate)
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Nichols used pie filling. Like its some big friggin secret.
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Was pie something, a gimmick of sorts to distinguish himself from the others I think. All this slin talk has me tempted to start back up but it just does not make me stronger or much bigger for all the extra food needed as I already need a stupid amount of carbs to grow (over 600 or forget it and 600 is a low estimate)
i gain a shitton of additional weight / intra muscular glycogen by adding slin and simply switching a portion of my carbs into the intra workout window.
i actually can keep calories low as FUCK when im on slin and theres still no way around gaining weight
on my last bulk i only ate 200 or 300 kcals a day extra versus my cutting calories and i gained weight like crazy just because of slin, nutrient timing and MK677...
i dont think you need to increase kcals AT ALL with slin... at least not as long as your insulin sensitivity is off the charts (create that environment during your cuts)
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i gain a shitton of additional weight / intra muscular glycogen by adding slin and simply switching a portion of my carbs into the intra workout window.
i actually can keep calories low as FUCK when im on slin and theres still no way around gaining weight
on my last bulk i only ate 200 or 300 kcals a day extra versus my cutting calories and i gained weight like crazy just because of slin, nutrient timing and MK677...
i dont think you need to increase kcals AT ALL with slin... at least not as long as your insulin sensitivity is off the charts (create that environment during your cuts)
my insulin sensitivity has to be naturally high as I look fairly lean on 400 grams of carbs per day, lol! Or am I mistaking being an ecto for high insulin sensitivity?
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well first of all you have to differentiate between fat tissue and muscle tissue:
low insulin sensitivity in fat tissue = good
low insulin sensitivity in muscle tissue = bad
id guess for most people its either all good or all bad though, not sure if you can independently increase one over the other (even though metformin is said to do this and some other GDAs too)
if you can eat a ton of carbs and not gain weight/fat i'd be inclined to think your overall insulin sensitivity is pretty bad
of course there are numerous other hormones involved in that so its not all black and white
look at juan morel. pretty cool that he can contest prep on thousands of calories of oreos and ice cream, but his insulin sensitivity must be utter shit.
otherwise he would spill over quickly and get fat.
if his muscular insulin sensitivity was good he could just eat 500g carbs, fill out all his muscle glycogen and then he would spill over into fat tissue.
but he requires thousands of grams of carbs to fill out. his muscular insulin sensitivity must be shit - but since he doesnt get fat his fat tissue insulin senstivity is probably shit too (which is good).
comprende? ;D
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it explains it well, just not defined as I thought it was. I take 100mg of na-r-ala once a day and that stuff works.
But see why I "give up" on trying to gain? Most blow the hell up on 600 grams of carbs, not me and I hate to eat.
Bah, 225ish ain't so bad but always thought I'd be bigger because of gear. More gear does not really make me bigger either, just better shape.
Could be worse but will surely appreciate my fast metabolism in the years to come as most get fat with age, I'll just retain my build better I think.
Thanks for your response, was nicely detailed!
edit: maybe I should try the pie filling gimmick? haha...
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yeah you will certainly stay leaner when u get older i guess.
my best buddy is like you...
hes eating 5000 kcals a day and not gaining a fucking pound.
hes using the same AAS as i do, dosages a bit lower, but no t3 or slin.
hes the same weight as me, a bit taller and a couple % higher on BF, but he can literally eat twice as much as me and not get fat.
not even when hes off tren.
keep in mind he has never been shredded either, so not a real ecto.
hes always in barely visible sixpack mode, no matter how hard he stuffs his face. always looks very lean though with clothes on.
hes on test deca and anadrol right now but looks very lean and dry and his face is also sunken in (at 12-13% bf) on a diet of mcdonalds and pizza for at least half his calories LOL. fucking genetics.
if i would eat his diet i would blow up, body and face. i could probably get to 250lbs within weeks as a bloated mofo with a pumpkin head with his diet.
and he cant crack the 200lbs lean.
told him to get off tren, stop using stims, use aromatizing compounds etc, but he just doesnt blow up. hes lacking that "pop" big time, always looks stringy and dry no matter what he uses.
only thing weve got left to try to make him explode is slin, but hes one of the guys who would probably fuck it up because he cant keep a clear head and is always a bit out of his mind, so were hesitant with slin.
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That sounds a lot like me. Even when "bulking" my face gets too thin if I take too much AI. By too much I mean 12.5mg eod for test/dbal or anadrol use. The deca is starting to work so finally I seem to be filling out somewhat. Face is actually a bit fuller and scale weight up and should not happen as I've been under eating for what I need to do lately. But what else is new?...
I'd start your buddy with a pre workout slin shot then a shot of humalin R placed somewhere in the day.
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only thing weve got left to try to make him explode is slin, but hes one of the guys who would probably fuck it up because he cant keep a clear head and is always a bit out of his mind, so were hesitant with slin.
loooooooooool
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loooooooooool
no shit, sometimes you walk around with him talking and then he just stops and stands there
... and i know hes fucking thinking about something and forgets to keep on walking. dead srs.
this happens all the time :D
i also have to bring him food all the time (to the gym, hes a personal trainer). he keeps forgetting to bring along something for his 10 hours shifts lol.
when he leaves his apartment or car he always stops for A MINUTE and goes through his head if he forgot something:
wallet, keys.
he doesnt even carry anything else with him LOL but it takes him a whole minute
now i guess you understand why were thinking twice before putting him on slin lol
he would probably shoot insulin twice because he would forget that 1 minute earlier he already injected
or hed forget to grab his carbs to the gym for sure
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me and my friend have been on slin for 5 days now... i did 15iu in the morning, gonna do higher preworkout after few hours... I have actually lost 1kg, what is happening? anyone experienced it ? i have got from 103kg to 102kg.. i was expecting gaining like crazy ::) :'(
He is doing fine... he loves that stuff and im wondering what is so special about it.... my pen has full potency, i tried yesterday not to eat for some time after injection, to know is it has lost all its potencty. i started to feel like shit after about 20 min and.
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insulin weirdly can have slight diuretic effects, give it time.
also the dosages you used at the beginning were useless. any lower than 10iu is pointless imo. 15iu is fine. i never went above 15iu, usually use between 10-15. my next run i might increase to 20iu but my workouts consist of a lot of supersets, dropsets, no rest exercises etc so any higher than 15iu might kill my intensity because of hypo issues. we will see, i will blast again at january 1st.
how many carbs are you eating during the active time and in the meal after?
also keep in mind that pre workout is NOTHING like in the morning or whenever. so dont increase too quickly.
with pre workout slin you go hypo MUCH faster than at any other time of the day.
my personal opinion: use it pre workout only. any other time of the day is a waste of time. keep insulin sensitivity as high as possible, pre workout is by far the best time to use insulin and you want it to work as good as possible at that time.
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do you live one getbig forums ? lol. Always with so fast and good answers.
Yes i did got very low, wasnt sure how i would react to it. But what i found out for myself from all those horror stories online, you got to be pretty stupid to fuck up..
This is exactly how i do it Preworkout:
20min b4 training:
50gr oats, 25gr protein and 2 whole eggs mixed
15min b4 training:
15iu slin
training:
150gr of dextrose with some bcaa product i have left
Post training:
50gr oats, 25gr protein and 2 whole eggs mixed.
1 hour post training:
the same as post training or chicken with rice.
I usually dont drink all my intra workout. Like yesterday i did legs and i used 12iu and im guessing i only had about 90gr of sugar in the workout.
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and if dont use growth hormone... is it useless for me to use slin?
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i just browse getbig during boring lectures at university ;)
honestly i would skip both the oat meals.
you dont need carbs beforehand if your intra shake covers your needs.
i always inject slin on empty stomach with my whey shake (see below).
the oat meals are a waste of time.
also too little protein beforehand...
let me tell you how i do it.
drink a shake 50g whey+half liter of skim milk (this doesnt even really need carbs in it, just use half a litre of skim milk thats enough).
then inject slin a couple mins later
15mins later start workout and start your intra carbs
by that time both the whey will have hit your bloodstream and the slin too. crucial.
sip intra carbs throughout workout
drink the rest afterwards if theres any left (i actually consume about 100g carbs for 15iu during my workout and the rest right afterwards)
go home, cook a meal, eat
(no need to hurry, the intra carbs easily last for an hour afterwards too, you wont go hypo)
eat the carbs that you would have in both your oat meals in your POST workout meal. trust me. you will gain weight with that. the 5-6 hours following your insulin injection are crucial. it works even after its out of your blood. see below
you want to flood your blood with aminos and glucose DURING the time the slin is active AND with carbs afterwards (insulin relocates glut4 to the cell surface. glut4 = glucose transporters in your muscle cells. this lasts for about 5-6 hours post injection.
see: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12832307 (thats what "effects on carbohydrate metabolism" hints at. as you can see, glucose uptake peaks at 2-3 hours, which is about the time you should eat your PWO meal.).
your workout does the same thing basically (glut4 relocation). so the post workout meal is very important. you basically get very strong glut4 relocation through both the slin and your workout, which makes u suck up a ton of carbs during those couple hours).
btw, insulin works just as well without GH.
high doses of GH need insulin (because of high blood sugar). insulin doesnt need GH.
i also never noticed additional fat gain with slin, however i dont use it without tren.
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im gonna put my trust on you stranger :) I remember what you wrote. gonna try it tonight when i go to the gym. But you think its not maybe a too much carbs ? 150gr intra workout and 100gr oats post workout(about 65gr complex carbs)?
The reason why i am so obbsesed with oats is that, i believe it helped me so much this year... i was always stuck at 92kg and i added about 100gr oats 5x over the day and i got to 106kg and still with the same bodyfat 12%. Now im currently 102kg. i eat about 250gr oats now..
one question more... is it ok to run insulin 6 weeks on and 6 weeks off ?
Thanks Jizmo, have learned a lot from you. cheers :)
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post for later...
But jiz why do you think so many folks (gh15tardos) say gh with slin ONLY. Why do they repeat this? Why do they think slin makes you get "fat"...
Also what slin do you use jiz?
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it explains it well, just not defined as I thought it was. I take 100mg of na-r-ala once a day and that stuff works.
But see why I "give up" on trying to gain? Most blow the hell up on 600 grams of carbs, not me and I hate to eat.
Bah, 225ish ain't so bad but always thought I'd be bigger because of gear. More gear does not really make me bigger either, just better shape.
Could be worse but will surely appreciate my fast metabolism in the years to come as most get fat with age, I'll just retain my build better I think.
Thanks for your response, was nicely detailed!
edit: maybe I should try the pie filling gimmick? haha...
how much protein u eat with 600 gram carbs?
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im gonna put my trust on you stranger :) I remember what you wrote. gonna try it tonight when i go to the gym. But you think its not maybe a too much carbs ? 150gr intra workout and 100gr oats post workout(about 65gr complex carbs)?
The reason why i am so obbsesed with oats is that, i believe it helped me so much this year... i was always stuck at 92kg and i added about 100gr oats 5x over the day and i got to 106kg and still with the same bodyfat 12%. Now im currently 102kg. i eat about 250gr oats now..
one question more... is it ok to run insulin 6 weeks on and 6 weeks off ?
Thanks Jizmo, have learned a lot from you. cheers :)
thats just 200g carbs, thats actually very little.
i would make my post workout meal the biggest meal of the day.. i usually take in 150g carbs intra workout and then another ~150g in my post workout meal. im also always damn hungry after training so i couldnt even do it any other way if i tried.
keep in mind i only eat 3 meals a day though (plus the shake/intra). so i have around 400-450g carbs a day in total. 2/3 of that are around the slin active time.
imo the best time to push carbs is 1. post workout and 2. when you have insulin in your blood and shortly afterwards. (so if u use pre workout insulin then post workout really is your best time to grow).
you could probably even get leaner AND bigger simultaneously by taking the main part of your daily carbs and putting them into the intra and post workout window (while the slin is active).
honestly when i was bulking and not using slin i would usually train fasted and then kill 300g or so of carbs all at once post workout ... and it never made me fatter than splitting them up over the day...
by the way, its not the oats that helped you gain a lot but the 300g of carbs that they provided ;)
oh and the last question. get yourself a blood glucose meter and test your morning blood sugar every couple days.
if your morning blood sugar goes over 90 then stop using the insulin because youre getting desensitized.
IN MY OPINION you can run insulin indefinitely IF you only use rapid insulin and only use it pre workout.
ive used it for 12 weeks straight for example and my morning blood sugar didnt move at all.
i was still between 70-80 every morning after 12 weeks of continuous slin use.
but this is probably very individual, so best way to see how it works for you is testing regularly
post for later...
But jiz why do you think so many folks (gh15tardos) say gh with slin ONLY. Why do they repeat this? Why do they think slin makes you get "fat"...
Also what slin do you use jiz?
i dont know. because theyre gh15tardos :D
pro BBers always got GH in their blood and of course GH and slin work synergistically. maybe GH is needed with multiple times a day insulin dosing. i dont know. some people even get leaner with intelligent slin use though. id bet my ass that nobody will get fat with sensible pre workout rapid insulin use...
i use novolog (same as humalog). ONLY EVER use rapid insulin.
hyperinsulinemia (chronically high insulin levels) cause desensitization. i wont ever touch anything else but rapid slin.
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jizmo autograph my dick bro!
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how much protein u eat with 600 gram carbs?
250 grams about. Lots of fats also. High everything actually.
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k...
I'm gonna give this another try.
2 hours before training I eat 100 grams of carbs from noodles, 50ish grams protein from chicken thighs.
Got close to 2 cups of milk ready to mix with 35gr protein 20ish min pre training.
then do 20 units humalog.
Intra workout sip on 120 grams gatorade with 20ish grams of bcaa.
Post. Here is my problem Jizmo. All those liquids keep me full a long time so I opt for liquid again post training, by this time it's 11pm. I normally have 60 grams carbs from pinneaple juice, then another 40 grams protein from whey.
2hours later, before bed, whole 500ml container of greek yogurt with some organic berries and pinneaple for health/digestion.
What I'm thinking of doing tonight is everything as layed out, add a banana to the post drink to get 80 grams total carbs with the 40ish protein from iso.
before bed, keep the yogurt and berries, if I have room, add a bagel (50ish carbs from them) I get 45 grams protein from the yogurt, close to 80 grams carbs with the yogurt and berries. Could add a table spoon of natural peanut butter to increase cals was thinking.
I know that's not much real food but real food post training would not allow me to eat again before bed and no way would real food go down after all that liquid.
What do you think of this plan?
I've always liked the idea of timing carbs around the training and slin as well as you mentioned. But most my meals have at least 80 grams of carbs anyway, slin or no slin or I deflate like you've never seen..
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post for later...
But jiz why do you think so many folks (gh15tardos) say gh with slin ONLY. Why do they repeat this? Why do they think slin makes you get "fat"...
Also what slin do you use jiz?
GH and slin work synergistically, add Thyroid hormone and you have the perfect cocktail to grow and get lean. Slin can make you fat quickly if you're eating too much with it, unless your using GH, then it's pretty hard to get fat. So there is some merit to that. Like Jizmo said, only use humalog. It's easy to control, in and out quickly. I know guys that use it non stop pre workout with zero problems. If you're using GH I think slin is a must. 4 iu of Serostim raises my fasted glucose by about 25 ng/dl
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do you live one getbig forums ? lol. Always with so fast and good answers.
Yes i did got very low, wasnt sure how i would react to it. But what i found out for myself from all those horror stories online, you got to be pretty stupid to fuck up..
This is exactly how i do it Preworkout:
20min b4 training:
50gr oats, 25gr protein and 2 whole eggs mixed
15min b4 training:
15iu slin
training:
150gr of dextrose with some bcaa product i have left
Post training:
50gr oats, 25gr protein and 2 whole eggs mixed.
1 hour post training:
the same as post training or chicken with rice.
I usually dont drink all my intra workout. Like yesterday i did legs and i used 12iu and im guessing i only had about 90gr of sugar in the workout.
Get rid of the oats and eggs before your workout, they're just going to be sitting in your gut your whole workout. Replace those carbs with dextrose, and get a fast digesting protein. The whole purpose of this is to have the nutrients in their simplest, most easily digested form. Your defeating the purpose with the oats and eggs. This really is simple and you'd get great results if you'd incorporate the proper ingredients.
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ritch your plan looks good.
i would make your last 2 "meals" (the one with the pineapple juice and the pre bed meal) one...
honestly im always hungry as fuck right after working out and thats a timing issue with slin. if you let yourself go hypo then youre gonna be full and bloated AS FUCK, because your body wont put any energy into digesting... its fight or flight mode, smooth muscle (digestion) basically stops working...
i always had that when i experimented with slin and timed it wrong
dextrose also pulls water into the intestine so you get bloated...
you can wait around an hour or so after your workout without your blood sugar going down from the intra carbs, so when an hour has passed you could eat again.. i would have 100g carbs 50g protein in the pwo meal at least to make use of glut4.
if liquids fill you up too much during workouts then try candy... you can essentially get 150g carbs (glucose syrup (=glucose) and sugar, depending on the kind of candy, opt for the one with the most glucose syrup) with just 200g of candy.
yeah people will look at you funny during your workout but who the fuck cares. candy works much better for me than liquids, less disgusting. a big amount of dextrose also bloats my stomach, because it draws water into the intestine. with candy i dont have these issues.
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Have you ever finger prick tested your blood sugar every 15 minutes to work out your timing or do you just go by feel?
When I tried keto I was constantly piss and blood testing to understand how different food combinations affected me over time.
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Have you ever finger prick tested your blood sugar every 15 minutes to work out your timing or do you just go by feel?
When I tried keto I was constantly piss and blood testing to understand how different food combinations affected me over time.
i probably pricked my fingers 100 times in 3 weeks to work out the best possible way to time this shit. not every 15 minutes but more like every 5 minutes...
you can go from completely fine to hypo within 10 minutes with 10+ iu... BS usually starts dropping low at the 30 minute mark after injection, until then only very minor changes (like going from 90 to 80 or 70). after the 30 minute mark you begin to feel funky.
from min 30 to min 40 i always dropped down to 50ish. it hits you hard after 30 mins.
lowest i measured was 45 i think. believe me that was CLOSE.
goodbye if you dont have food in after 45mins
i also measured every morning
doenst help that 100 test strips run for about 60 bucks here
costed more than the insulin itself lol
nowadays i got the timing down so i test maybe every 2 weeks to evaluate if my sensitivity is still fine (it always is, lol) or to test some supps effects like berberine, metformin, ALA etc
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k...
I'm gonna give this another try.
2 hours before training I eat 100 grams of carbs from noodles, 50ish grams protein from chicken thighs.
Got close to 2 cups of milk ready to mix with 35gr protein 20ish min pre training.
then do 20 units humalog.
Intra workout sip on 120 grams gatorade with 20ish grams of bcaa.
Post. Here is my problem Jizmo. All those liquids keep me full a long time so I opt for liquid again post training, by this time it's 11pm. I normally have 60 grams carbs from pinneaple juice, then another 40 grams protein from whey.
2hours later, before bed, whole 500ml container of greek yogurt with some organic berries and pinneaple for health/digestion.
What I'm thinking of doing tonight is everything as layed out, add a banana to the post drink to get 80 grams total carbs with the 40ish protein from iso.
before bed, keep the yogurt and berries, if I have room, add a bagel (50ish carbs from them) I get 45 grams protein from the yogurt, close to 80 grams carbs with the yogurt and berries. Could add a table spoon of natural peanut butter to increase cals was thinking.
I know that's not much real food but real food post training would not allow me to eat again before bed and no way would real food go down after all that liquid.
What do you think of this plan?
I've always liked the idea of timing carbs around the training and slin as well as you mentioned. But most my meals have at least 80 grams of carbs anyway, slin or no slin or I deflate like you've never seen..
If you're feeling full from the liquid I would drop the milk before your workout. Dairy products in general make you feel full and bloated, and the milk protein digests much slower than other proteins you could use. Gatorade is good, that's what I use. Try using less liquid with it, this will make your shakes much sweeter, but might help with the fullness. Make your pre workout shake and intraworkout shake with the exact same ingredients, no reason not to. Just adjust the amount of carbs you need.
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i probably pricked my fingers 100 times in 3 weeks to work out the best possible way to time this shit. not every 15 minutes but more like every 5 minutes...
you can go from completely fine to hypo within 10 minutes with 10+ iu... BS usually starts dropping low at the 30 minute mark after injection, until then only very minor changes (like going from 90 to 80 or 70). after the 30 minute mark you begin to feel funky.
from min 30 to min 40 i always dropped down to 50ish. it hits you hard after 30 mins.
lowest i measured was 45 i think. believe me that was CLOSE.
goodbye if you dont have food in after 45mins
i also measured every morning
doenst help that 100 test strips run for about 60 bucks here
costed more than the insulin itself lol
nowadays i got the timing down so i test maybe every 2 weeks to evaluate if my sensitivity is still fine (it always is, lol) or to test some supps effects like berberine, metformin, ALA etc
Good stuff
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Some solid advice from both lilhawk1 and Jizmo. Gonna take a bit of advice from both of ya. The milk pre workout seemed odd, lol, but stomach was fine last night. Was surprised as I have eaten about 1.5hrs before that. I have the 0 lactose stuff. But do agree the milk proteins don't get in fast enough. I did add iso powder to it but. I think both methods would work.
I was thinking of eating licorice pre workout with the iso but that just puts more "stuff" in my stomach compared to the iso drink mixed in milk or some gatorade.
I guess I could try some gatorade in vanilla iso for the pre workout. About 40ish grams of each.
But I'm pretty much stuck with my 2 500ml bottles intra workout. Each bottle has 50-60 grams gatorade with 10 grams bcaa powder. I'm always thirsty for 1 litre of liquid intra workout as a training is never under 1.5hrs anyway.
If I were to add carbs, from that point, I'd add licorice as the 60 gram gatorade bottles taste very sweet as is, can't make em stronger. I may add licorice as I wanna go high in the pre workout dose. Done up to 30 units before.
for post, I'm kinda stuck with my plan as is. I think I'll add grounded oat powder to the whey and rest of the mix for more carbs and cals. This will bump me to 120 carbs post.
Had the bagel with the yogurt and berries before bed. Lots of cals again, and easy to eat.
This was the first time I ever seek help with slin use guys and can't remember the last I ever asked for help gear wise. Thanks again for the solid advice guys!
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dont eat 1.5 hours before the slin, then you wont be full
if you meal 1 at 8:00 and meal 2 at 9:30 youre gonna be fucking full too lol, makes no sense to me
take 3 hours after your last meal before you hit the shake and the slin... much easier, no bloat at all etc
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dont eat 1.5 hours before the slin, then you wont be full
if you meal 1 at 8:00 and meal 2 at 9:30 youre gonna be fucking full too lol, makes no sense to me
take 3 hours after your last meal before you hit the shake and the slin... much easier, no bloat at all etc
yeah, woke up too late yesterday to get my meals in on time for ideal spacing. Today, I waited longer but was still kinda full as I was out of chicken and had a steak with the noodles.
Subbed the milk for gatorade, rest as described but added oats to the post training shake.
But yesterday, I was oddly fine with the lack of digestion time and had milk of all things pre training!
Also bumped the slin to 25 units tonight. Felt ok, as long as I have no odd vision issues I'm ok. (had them before...)
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Im just going to use insulin on lagging body part days well not lagging just bits i want bigger arms and legs.
Can i consume more carbs than normal as i do cardio every morning and usually 15min after a train. Would not do cardio after training on insulin days.
The real question is can i consume more carbs for more benefit due to my other weekly expenditure?
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I would say yes consume more carbs. I don't see the point in using slin and seeing how few carbs you can take in. If you're using GH and T4 with it then really push the carbs as you don't have to worry about getting fat. Using it once a day preworkout is the only time I would use it anywAy, and only humalog.
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I would say yes consume more carbs. I don't see the point in using slin and seeing how few carbs you can take in. If you're using GH and T4 with it then really push the carbs as you don't have to worry about getting fat. Using it once a day preworkout is the only time I would use it anywAy, and only humalog.
Would only be 150gm more carbs than usual not including my intra work out shake which i would keep at 10gm per 1 iu I eat pretty much no fat anyway except on non training days where i have no carbs.
Unfortunately cant afford GH well pharma but i use t3 constantly anyway.
I figured with intense training and cardio(non slin days) i shouldn't gain to much fat anyway regardless of carbs as long as they are clean carbs and no fats.
Slin for me would literally only be 3-4 days a week and 4 days a week would maybe be once a month.
I just want extra size on legs and arms.
And yes humalog is what i have and would be starting at 5iu to test the waters then push up to what ever i feel safe. But not sure what that really would be seeing im not using it every day.
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Im just going to use insulin on lagging body part days well not lagging just bits i want bigger arms and legs.
Can i consume more carbs than normal as i do cardio every morning and usually 15min after a train. Would not do cardio after training on insulin days.
The real question is can i consume more carbs for more benefit due to my other weekly expenditure?
taking slin on just a few days a week, one dose will not work man, don't even waste your time doing this.
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taking slin on just a few days a week, one dose will not work man, don't even waste your time doing this.
Why do you say this? I would understand if it was long acting insulin but doesn't the short acting just make you shuttle more glycogen and I guess you would say nutrients in its active life which for humalog is bugger all
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Why do you say this? I would understand if it was long acting insulin but doesn't the short acting just make you shuttle more glycogen and I guess you would say nutrients in its active life which for humalog is bugger all
try it, then tell me, lol!
What you're saying is like saying "i'm gonna shoot test suspension, just on training days pre workout and make that body part bigger while not taking any other gear"
Just does not work that way, wish it did though!
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try it, then tell me, lol!
What you're saying is like saying "i'm gonna shoot test suspension, just on training days pre workout and make that body part bigger while not taking any other gear"
Just does not work that way, wish it did though!
What's the science behind it is what I'm asking? All the people I know that take fast acting only take it training day. Some only train 4 days a week.
I'm going to try it to cheap not to.
This will be along with 1.5g of test and 1.4g tren and 700 npp so just an extra boost. Oh and 50mcg of t3. If it doesn't make me feel to bad or put on fat with my protocol I may end up using it training days.
But with. The test suspension I have never heard people shooting that non training day? Not to say it's not done
Not here to start arguments more so here personal experience as so many different things work for different people and do fuk all for others
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i think ritch meant site enhancement with insulin wont work
it shuttles glycogen systemically, not only into the muscle trained
rapid insulin works extremely well just used pre workout.
my personal opinion is that any other time of the day than pre workout is a waste (regarding benefits vs sides)
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MILOS SARCEV has a long thread here yrs ago and insulin being one of the most anabolic compounds .he was big on it as a stand alone .
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Mr. Know everything aka Jizmo. What is the benefit of using higher insulin dosage(20-25iu) ? Why is it better to use 20iu then 12iu ? Is 25iu preworkout too much ?
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i dunno, ive only ever used up to 15iu... i believe at some point youll risk going hypo with too much rapid insulin pre workout... so if it starts to cut into your workout performance then ur using too much... ofc it also depends on the amount of carbs you can stomach/digest during that window...
i honestly think that the main benefit of insulin is anti catabolism and not anabolism per se though (plus nutrient partitioning of course), so i dont think there is MUCH additional benefit with for example 30 vs 15iu pre workout. but 15iu will obviously be way better than well, none at all.
i personally chose 15iu because thats a decent amount that should provide strong anti catabolism and it does not bother me to ingest 150g carbs during my workouts at all nor do i go hypo with 15iu... it also leaves enough kcals/carbs for the rest of the day... i wouldnt wanna cut out another 150g carbs from my other meals to be able to cover 30iu pre workout slin to be honest.
and too many high glycemic carbs at once will make you fat at some point...
keep in mind your body can only synthesize so much glycogen at a time. the rest will spill over into fat tissue.
however i believe with high amount of slin especially pre workout the ceiling dosage / amount could be pretty high.
also keep in mind there could be desensitization with very high dosages, even though i havent seen any real evidence for that yet (except some study which showed pancreatic cell death with hyperinsulinemia in vitro, but no idea which dosage would achieve that in vivo).
its probably something you have to experiment with. if you can get away with 30iu and shift most of your carbs into the intra workout window without gaining additional fat then why not...
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i think ritch meant site enhancement with insulin wont work
it shuttles glycogen systemically, not only into the muscle trained
rapid insulin works extremely well just used pre workout.
my personal opinion is that any other time of the day than pre workout is a waste (regarding benefits vs sides)
Lol yeah wont be using it for site enhancement. I have my stupid moments but not that stupid hahah
I will try work my way up to 15iu but i think not using it everyday and doing cardio on days off i might be able to push the carbs a little more than others do. My mates have always used as little carbs as possible. I also think i may be able to push the slin a little higher with out the desensitization.
I was tempted to get some generic growth and just run it the 5 weeks i was doing the slin but after using generic growth and then pharma growth at small doses for injuries i really can tell how shit the generic stuff here is.
Me personally have never tried it.
I want to get down around 8% before i even entertain the idea of using it. That way i can keep a closer eye on my fat gain.
Will be an interesting experiment thats for sure.
Going to pump drol and dbol combo straight after. Been on very low dose test and tren after wife got pregnant and now just on 350 test until the new year to cut on.
Looking forward to it and thanks for your ideas.
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I'm at 30 units pre workout now, taken every pre training. No huge size difference at all.
@Jizmo, yes I meant it won't do jack shit if taken just pre workout, gives good trainings, you look fuller, but it needs more shots for mass gains. To think you can use it once, twice a week is purely delusional thinking and spoken from someone who thinks pretty much like everyone else.
Slin makes you huge by just taking it.
Not true.
Hope it works out for you though, maybe I'M just not a responder? Gonna up the dose either way, I feel fine so far.
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thanks for the reply jizmo.
Anyways i decided to keep on going this month and take off the next months coming. im doing 900mg of test and deca along with 15iu slin with breakfast and 20iu preworkout and 75mcg T3... I got to say im very happy with my action. I have never looked bigger than now, cant say i got any fat gains. i measured my arms yesterday and they were at 48cm and quads 66cm..
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I'm at 30 units pre workout now, taken every pre training. No huge size difference at all.
@Jizmo, yes I meant it won't do jack shit if taken just pre workout, gives good trainings, you look fuller, but it needs more shots for mass gains. To think you can use it once, twice a week is purely delusional thinking and spoken from someone who thinks pretty much like everyone else.
Slin makes you huge by just taking it.
Not true.
Hope it works out for you though, maybe I'M just not a responder? Gonna up the dose either way, I feel fine so far.
Yeah will be interesting for sure. My mate trains 4 times a week no cardio and was using 10iu second meal of the day and 10iu with pre workout. He only trains 4 days a week and only used it on training days. Said its probably the most dramatic gains he has seen in the last 10 years. He stayed lean as but he was using 7grams of carbs per iu. You can really tell the difference by looking at him too. Even after about 3-4 weeks since stopping the slin. If I dont feel its working ill move it to all training days next time.
Ps never said once or twice a week im talking 3-4 times a week. But i usually train weight 6 days a week and do cardio every day(which will change on slin)
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I'm at 30 units pre workout now, taken every pre training. No huge size difference at all.
@Jizmo, yes I meant it won't do jack shit if taken just pre workout, gives good trainings, you look fuller, but it needs more shots for mass gains. To think you can use it once, twice a week is purely delusional thinking and spoken from someone who thinks pretty much like everyone else.
Slin makes you huge by just taking it.
Not true.
Hope it works out for you though, maybe I'M just not a responder? Gonna up the dose either way, I feel fine so far.
Not sure why you don't get size from slin just using it pre workout. I use it 5 days per week just pre workout, same with my friends and all get great size increases in short time with it. You honestly should be so full and pumped it gets annoying. Do you have massive pumps from it? I'm at 20 iu, no real need to go higher.
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Not sure why you don't get size from slin just using it pre workout. I use it 5 days per week just pre workout, same with my friends and all get great size increases in short time with it. You honestly should be so full and pumped it gets annoying. Do you have massive pumps from it? I'm at 20 iu, no real need to go higher.
Honestly, I always get great pumps, even in the 4-6 rep range. But something I didn't think of here... You guys use it with GH! Could be the key here to explain why you guys get such better results.
Gonna keep pluggin' away at it though, not giving up just yet.
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Yeah will be interesting for sure. My mate trains 4 times a week no cardio and was using 10iu second meal of the day and 10iu with pre workout. He only trains 4 days a week and only used it on training days. Said its probably the most dramatic gains he has seen in the last 10 years. He stayed lean as but he was using 7grams of carbs per iu. You can really tell the difference by looking at him too. Even after about 3-4 weeks since stopping the slin. If I dont feel its working ill move it to all training days next time.
Ps never said once or twice a week im talking 3-4 times a week. But i usually train weight 6 days a week and do cardio every day(which will change on slin)
Keep us posted man!
twice a day though, I notice a difference when using it, but the magic stops after like 5 days. Weird. I think the body desensitizes to it fast, no longer sure really, just know I'm open to suggestions on this topic as my own doing has not led me to much success.
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Will do aiming start of jan
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Keep us posted man!
twice a day though, I notice a difference when using it, but the magic stops after like 5 days. Weird. I think the body desensitizes to it fast, no longer sure really, just know I'm open to suggestions on this topic as my own doing has not led me to much success.
funny researching i found the PED radio podcast and #34 has a section on exactly what im planning on. Well i havnt listened to it yet just downloaded it but will be interesting what is said on there
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Honestly, I always get great pumps, even in the 4-6 rep range. But something I didn't think of here... You guys use it with GH! Could be the key here to explain why you guys get such better results.
Gonna keep pluggin' away at it though, not giving up just yet.
insulin makes a HUGE difference for me at just 15iu pre workout 4-5 times a week. changed my look too. never used GH. GH is absolutely not needed for the anabolic benefits of slin... high dose GH needs slin, not the other way around.
maybe youre a bit insulin resistant? ive always made sure i stay as insulin sensitive as possible (always use metformin or berberine on cuts, fast longer periods, use sensitizing supps etc)
i doubt i could use 30iu pre workout, but havent tried yet. i might go up to 20iu but dont see the need to increase from there.
intra and post slin nutrition is also crucial for it to work correctly imo. if thats not on point then slin could even do the opposite of what you want it to (muscle loss through gluconeogenesis from muscle tissue if you let yourself go hypo etc)
Keep us posted man!
twice a day though, I notice a difference when using it, but the magic stops after like 5 days. Weird. I think the body desensitizes to it fast, no longer sure really, just know I'm open to suggestions on this topic as my own doing has not led me to much success.
well it shuttles carbs into muscle tissue... using it more often makes you full faster. but once youre full whats gonna happen? your body cant shuttle endless carbs into your muscle...
thats why im saying pre workout use only... thats when the anti catabolic action is needed.
you dont need an anti catabolic compound with breakfast when youre gonna sit on ur ass the next couple hours :D (at least if you dont have a physically demanding job and even then its not that useful imo)
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If I do use it every training day I just adjust my daily carbs so they are the same just moving percentage of carbs into workout time and post work out? Will add maybe 70-100gm extra carbs on lagging parts if I do go every day and on lagging parts days I will do a morning shot with breakfast.
Fats will be as non existent as possible except on non training days when I replace my carbs with fats aka almonds.
Decided I'm going to add 50-60mg of dbol as well on insulin run as I'm only running 1.2g test and drop tren to about 1g will be easier to pin those doses. Going to run long esters to.
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If I do use it every training day I just adjust my daily carbs so they are the same just moving percentage of carbs into workout time and post work out?
thats how i do it. you might even get leaner with this approach or at least gain less fat than normally.
Will add maybe 70-100gm extra carbs on lagging parts if I do go every day and on lagging parts days I will do a morning shot with breakfast.
this is pointless. didnt we just agree that site enhancement doesnt work with insulin ? ;)
Fats will be as non existent as possible except on non training days when I replace my carbs with fats aka almonds.
just avoid pre/intra fats...
i do pretty much always have 10-20g fats or so with my pwo meal though since its the last meal of the day.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12832307
effects on fat metabolism peak at 2h and are have completely disappeared by 4 hours after the shot.
i eat my pwo around 2.5-3h after the slin shot so i dont really care about fats there. i generally eat lowish fats anyway.
Decided I'm going to add 50-60mg of dbol as well on insulin run as I'm only running 1.2g test and drop tren to about 1g will be easier to pin those doses. Going to run long esters to.
that will make for some nice glycogen retention :) i prefer adrol or sdrol over dbol but thats just personal preference. all work very well with slin imo.
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thanks for the reply jizmo.
Anyways i decided to keep on going this month and take off the next months coming. im doing 900mg of test and deca along with 15iu slin with breakfast and 20iu preworkout and 75mcg T3... I got to say im very happy with my action. I have never looked bigger than now, cant say i got any fat gains. i measured my arms yesterday and they were at 48cm and quads 66cm..
I'm metric through and through... Except when it comes to measuring body parts, keep it in inches...OR ELSE!!!
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lol, calculating that keeps your mind fit
thats 19 and 26 inches
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thats how i do it. you might even get leaner with this approach or at least gain less fat than normally.this is pointless. didnt we just agree that site enhancement doesnt work with insulin ? ;)
just avoid pre/intra fats...
i do pretty much always have 10-20g fats or so with my pwo meal though since its the last meal of the day.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12832307
effects on fat metabolism peak at 2h and are have completely disappeared by 4 hours after the shot.
i eat my pwo around 2.5-3h after the slin shot so i dont really care about fats there. i generally eat lowish fats anyway.
that will make for some nice glycogen retention :) i prefer adrol or sdrol over dbol but thats just personal preference. all work very well with slin imo.
I do have sdrol and adrol on hand. My favourite is a basic test tren dbol. Never actually tried superdrol though. I run high doses of dbol(by my standards anyway 80-100mg) for very short periods of time 3 weeks on 2 off protocol as i have drive a lot for work and cant with the back pumps. Hoping lower dose i could run it whole period of the slin.
As for the extra carbs on those days its more due to higher intensity and longer training session more than site enhancement. Mind you though i have been doing this for years with out improvement so i think your comment makes a lot of sense and i should take it on board hahah. Its amazing how when you want something to work you can read through and filter advice. Something that you should do on the internet but probably not when you know your self its not working hahah.
I think i mentioned before but i run t3 pretty much year round except on cruise. 50mcg when not trying to drop fat and 100mcg when i feel mid section getting a little chubby.
With the fats(im pushing to have a table spoon of mac or coconut oil per day with my last casien shake or custard before bed) does that mean im ok to have small amounts of good fats? like almonds, coconut oil, macadamia oil and mcts when the insulin is not active. which brings the next question....
Humalog r im pretty sure it is what is the half life and complete clear out period? I was told this was the fastest acting insulin you could get.
I measure in cm everything sounds bigger...
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umm ? humalog R? either humalog or humalin R
you want humalog. naming is a bit weird because the R ones are regular human insulin, not rapid. regular is much slower. i would only ever use rapid insulin personally...
you use t3 year round too? i absolutely LOVE this approach. i always use 50mcg when bulking, more when cutting. t3 hugely helps with tren sides for me too, ive mentioned that on here a couple times. works for most people it seems.
you can absolutely have fats. just keep fats away 2 hours before and 2 hours after your insulin shot imo.
i personally eat around 20g fats (plus 10ml fish oil which i dont count) with my first 2 meals,
no fats with my pre and intra (with insulin)
then another 15-20g or so with my pwo meal (last meal of the day)
you dont have to avoid fats at all, except for the time when the insulin is peaking imo. thats when you should flood your body with protein and carbs.
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umm ? humalog R? either humalog or humalin R
you want humalog. naming is a bit weird because the R ones are regular human insulin, not rapid. regular is much slower. i would only ever use rapid insulin personally...
you use t3 year round too? i absolutely LOVE this approach. i always use 50mcg when bulking, more when cutting. t3 hugely helps with tren sides for me too, ive mentioned that on here a couple times. works for most people it seems.
you can absolutely have fats. just keep fats away 2 hours before and 2 hours after your insulin shot imo.
i personally eat around 20g fats (plus 10ml fish oil which i dont count) with my first 2 meals,
no fats with my pre and intra (with insulin)
then another 15-20g or so with my pwo meal (last meal of the day)
you dont have to avoid fats at all, except for the time when the insulin is peaking imo. thats when you should flood your body with protein and carbs.
Yeah pretty sure its humalog.Ill check later but pretty sure its the rapid one.
Yeah t3 pretty much year round and when tren sides start to effect me which they dont really i add proviron as well that really helps the mood part sleep and heat with im fine with, maybe used to on tren that doesnt effect me. My wife tells me to take the provrion when i start getting snappy. Maybe the t3 is why i handle it better than most or just run a lot of it for long periods
Yeah i think i should be fine with my current protocol with fats then maybe add a little more in the morning as they help a lot with me being hungry through the day. Never used fats pre or intra workout except when i tried keto when i was natty getting the wife pregnant.
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Was pie something, a gimmick of sorts to distinguish himself from the others I think. All this slin talk has me tempted to start back up but it just does not make me stronger or much bigger for all the extra food needed as I already need a stupid amount of carbs to grow (over 600 or forget it and 600 is a low estimate)
Never heard of using pie filling, but back in the late 80's / early 90's, it seemed quite a few people were carrying jars of baby food around with them. Also, didn't Mo Benaziza try to live off nothing more than pureed apples? Wonder if any of this was due to using insulin..?
(ps - thanks all for the fascinating detail on effective use :))
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Like í said b4, i kept on cycling this month. Been on insulin for almost 3 weeks. I have been getting much bigger. Also 1% fatter, wich I don't like. I'm also up to 150mcg of la pharma t3. I dosent work for shit. Like you know 150mcg is sky high and I'm still getting fatter. Mainly bcz my diet probably sucks.
Can someone give me insulin diet protocol ? What should I eat after morning shot of slin and evening shot ?
10min ago I shot 15iu of slin and ate hamburger and drank 70gr whey protein shake with 60gr carbs.
Pls don't bash me :(
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you eat hamburgers after shooting slin and wonder why ur getting fat?
not sure if srs
also dont use insulin while cutting. waste of time.
using high dosages of t3 with insulin is also completely pointless.
150mcg legit t3 will make you flat as FUCK, insulin will probably be worthless with it.
t3 and slin basically have opposite effects lol. slin makes you full, t3 makes you flat. dont use them together (well, you can use up to 50-60mcg t3 or so when bulking, i always do that. dont use more or youll be flat as fuck even on slin).
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I'm srs :( but this was just one time. Ofc I don't eat hamburger and expect to be lean after slin shot lol. It's kind of complicated... This t3 is underdosed as fuck. I feel like on 50mg. It's not even making me flat.
What would u eat after slin shot on off days ?
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you eat hamburgers after shooting slin and wonder why ur getting fat?
not sure if srs
also dont use insulin while cutting. waste of time.
using high dosages of t3 with insulin is also completely pointless.
150mcg legit t3 will make you flat as FUCK, insulin will probably be worthless with it.
t3 and slin basically have opposite effects lol. slin makes you full, t3 makes you flat. dont use them together (well, you can use up to 50-60mcg t3 or so when bulking, i always do that. dont use more or youll be flat as fuck even on slin).
But his total cals were too high for nothing too. I mean, you don't need 70 grams of protein from a shake, especially after a burger that had protein (30gr?) in it.
I was told t3 was good to avoid fat gains, (not really my problem) but what about using clen instead?
Once heard high slin doses and DNP=poor man's HGH as the slin makes you big, the dnp keeps you lean, hence the comparision to HGH.
What do you think of that boss?
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What would u eat after slin shot on off days ?
i would never shoot slin on off days at all.
pre workout only. anything else is a waste to get the most out of it imo.
But his total cals were too high for nothing too. I mean, you don't need 70 grams of protein from a shake, especially after a burger that had protein (30gr?) in it.
I was told t3 was good to avoid fat gains, (not really my problem) but what about using clen instead?
Once heard high slin doses and DNP=poor man's HGH as the slin makes you big, the dnp keeps you lean, hence the comparision to HGH.
What do you think of that boss?
dnp makes you feel like complete utter garbage. MISERABLE. also kills my strength just like abusive dosages of t3.
also whats the fucking deal with doing everything at once lol. everybody wants to bulk and get leaner at the same time. doesnt work.
use bulking drugs for bulking and cutting drugs for cutting.
theres no point in combining slin (ultimate bulking drug) with anything like t3, clen, dnp or whatever (also metformin).
test tren slin gh/peps = bulk
test tren + shitton of fat burners = cut
easy as that if you ask me
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I have also been drinking 50mg og test prop for every unit. The reason I do it is so the slin can shuttle the test straight into my muscle.
I knew u would sat that. But nevermind. I'll just fond out myself and probably get fat as fuck. Btw the first colum was a joke :)
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I have also been drinking 50mg og test prop for every unit. The reason I do it is so the slin can shuttle the test straight into my muscle.
I knew u would sat that. But nevermind. I'll just fond out myself and probably get fat as fuck. Btw the first colum was a joke :)
thought i was retarded and you had been trolling all the time after i read the first sentence lol
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thought i was retarded and you had been trolling all the time after i read the first sentence lol
:')
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Ok my insulin cyce has come to 4 weeks mark.... I didnt gain nothing ! But i did start to use T3(wich im not gonna do again w. slin) after 1 week of insulin... I do look ''bulkier'' or ''thicker'', but i also look fatter.. This was my first insulin cycle.. and i fucked up a little in the begining with diet... last week i moved all my carbs in the morning and most of them around workout. i 15iu with breakfast and 22iu pre-workout. I always hear stories of people gaining crazy on this.. but i maybe gained a pound or two. so why am i looking a little fatter and fuller. where are my kilos :/ im not sure the t3 is the reason i didnt gain, bcz i got fatter and for the first week without T3 i didnt gain nothin and also this T3 is crap.
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please lay out the nutritional details...
I'm going back to humalin R, will have something to report soon.
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Didn't want to spam getbig by making new thread.. but I hope especially Jizmo god or someone who knows what's up with me...
As you maybe know I did inuslin.. started with 4iu and worked my way to 12iu breakfast and 24iu pre-workout for 6 weeks or little more. I was bigger but fatter. I didn't gain anything but I Def felt bigger and fatter.. After few weeks I'm going to start a cycle again along with slin and only thinking about taking 15iu pre-workout.
Could the reason be why I didn't get any good gains because I was on cycle for to long and my body couldnt respond very well to the slin because my receptors were over saturated or something else ?
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No, insulin is a storage hormone, and the most anabolic hormone there is. It doesn't attach to receptor sites like steroids do. The pathways in which they work are totally different. You're using a good amount of insulin. I use 20 iu preworkout and that's the only time I use it. I've put on about 25 pounds since I started, but I'm leaner than before as well. I know everyone has there opinion, but I would never use slin without GH and T4. Some people respond to things better than others, but I don't know too many that don't get great gains from slin. Even without GH you should be putting on weight. Are you not eating enough throughout the day? How much T3 are you using?
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No, insulin is a storage hormone, and the most anabolic hormone there is. It doesn't attach to receptor sites like steroids do. The pathways in which they work are totally different. You're using a good amount of insulin. I use 20 iu preworkout and that's the only time I use it. I've put on about 25 pounds since I started, but I'm leaner than before as well. I know everyone has there opinion, but I would never use slin without GH and T4. Some people respond to things better than others, but I don't know too many that don't get great gains from slin. Even without GH you should be putting on weight. Are you not eating enough throughout the day? How much T3 are you using?
I always eat enough :) mostly drink my food tho... I was using 150mcg of t3.. very high dose... I eat a lot of sugar.. you think that has some effect on my insulin sensitivity? Well I'm gonna try this one more time and this time I learned my lesson to eat clean.
And wow 25 lbs.. that's a good job.. what are u using with it ?
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well 3 reasons for that imo:
- your diet was shit (OBVIOUSLY lots of sugar affects insulin sensitivity lol)
- your insulin sensitivity was shit (if you can use 24iu rapid slin (did you use humalog or humulin?) pre workout without any hypo issues then it is most likely shit unless your timing is perfect down to a T)
- your t3 dosage was way to high to gain muscle on ANYTHING... on 150mcg t3 you can all the slin and the world and wont get full.
do it right or dont do it. you cant just throw in high doses of anything and expect miracles, especially not with t3 or dnp
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well 3 reasons for that imo:
- your diet was shit (OBVIOUSLY lots of sugar affects insulin sensitivity lol)
- your insulin sensitivity was shit (if you can use 24iu rapid slin (did you use humalog or humulin?) pre workout without any hypo issues then it is most likely shit unless your timing is perfect down to a T)
- your t3 dosage was way to high to gain muscle on ANYTHING... on 150mcg t3 you can all the slin and the world and wont get full.
do it right or dont do it. you cant just throw in high doses of anything and expect miracles, especially not with t3 or dnp
I would say my timing was pretty good... bit yes my diet sucks.... too much sugar... stopped drinking sugar soda drinks.. replaced it with H2O... gonna do it as right as possible next time.... even at 150mcg t3 I stayed very full..
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I would say my timing was pretty good... bit yes my diet sucks.... too much sugar... stopped drinking sugar soda drinks.. replaced it with H2O... gonna do it as right as possible next time.... even at 150mcg t3 I stayed very full..
then your t3 was bunk
150mcg eat you up... no matter the AAS dose
might also be part of the reason you didnt see much from slin, idk... i always run tren and t3 with it (but just 50mcg t3, im a strong believer that lower but supraphysiological doses give huge benefits on protein synthesis and metabolism)
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then your t3 was bunk
150mcg eat you up... no matter the AAS dose
might also be part of the reason you didnt see much from slin, idk... i always run tren and t3 with it (but just 50mcg t3, im a strong believer that lower but supraphysiological doses give huge benefits on protein synthesis and metabolism)
for me t3's sweet spot is 50-75 mcg a day
25 is ok for maintenance, and anything over 100 fucks my shit up
i prefer t3 to clen, as clen makes me too damn jittery and it doesn't rip and dry me up as well as t3 does, so t3 mftw in my case