Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Positive Bodybuilding Discussion & Talk => Topic started by: MrHat on March 30, 2006, 10:19:10 AM
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Hi,
I keep hearing it banded about that flex was lazy when it came to training!? how so and how lazy was he? I mean to build a figure like his, genetics and drugs aside must have took him some long hard hours in the gym right? :)
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I have a clip from Flex Wheelers video and he says something about levrone as he is getting into a set of cable rows, not sure if that has anything to do with what Levrone was saying about "all that cable bullshit."
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Yates has said himself that Flex was the most gifted bodybuileder ever, and all he needed to be the greatest was a little dedication. He really loved to eat like shit and train like a puss. My trainer worked with flex for a while and he said that he would be more muscular and defined then 99% of the population even if he never lifted.
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I thought he ate good, I remember watching the olympia prep video and he was having a sugar drink beforre trianing cause he said he was tired, might have been the slin kicking in, but I thought being a pro he would pull a Branch and totally deplete for weeks on end, when so much is on the line come contest time. I think it was not a lack of motivation but he always doubted himself in what he was doing with his body and what he was putting into it, I think it made him guilt ridden, most guys can shrug it off and keep playing denial all the while you could tell flex was just wanting to get it over with.
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Lazy or not, the man was AWESOME! 8)
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how can you call the man lazy. he has gone down as one of the greatest bodybuilders ever and hes getting shit because he didnt turn out to be the greatest ever
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are you guys not proud of the way you look?
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I wonder what his training routine was like i.e how many sets/exercises how many days a week etc.etc
I can remember Flex saying that he "didnt know how people could body build without the drugs" Anyone got any pics of him before he ever lifted weights?
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You obviously haven't read his book -there's pictures of him in that before he started training. ;)
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You obviously haven't read his book -there's pictures of him in that before he started training. ;)
Thank's! anyone got a scan? :)
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you gained 40 lbs of muscle and you're still smaller than some people here?
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yes sadly. my starting weight was 120 pounds. i have a picture here where i weigh about 120 at 5'11" !!! My highest weight ever was 191 and i was kinda fatty 36 inch waist. Right now I'm 180 with 33.75 inch waist. Arms are 15. Highest has been 15.5.
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I wonder what his training routine was like i.e how many sets/exercises how many days a week etc.etc
I can remember Flex saying that he "didnt know how people could body build without the drugs" Anyone got any pics of him before he ever lifted weights?
You hit the nail on the head... Flex took juice from day one. he has admitted it. he said he juiced for 20 yrs straight. Flex had amazing SHAPE.... Raw genetics alone flex had some great ones...But not as good as guys like coleman and comier who would be big and ripped just from good old food and weights. Flex looked amazing but his genetics where more drug responding than raw size and condition. He had a tiny frame with very full muscles...
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I fail to see how Coleman has better genetics than flex wheeler??? Ronnies triceps are the worst any olympia has ever had. Not to mention his abs they are crap as well, they are defined and ripped but genetically they are totally crap. Cormier has awesome genetics and should be my olympia over ronnie.
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cormier has to come in shape
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To answer that question...look at how he bounced back from adversity. In 1994 he broke his neck in tow places, trained came back in 1995 to win a controversial win at the Ironman, got second at the Arnold (should have won). And placed 8th at the O.
Now in 2002 he had the kidney transplant, trained "natural", weighed about 212-14 and got seveth place.
How many of the pros could have done that. Cormier can't even get his drug problem straight. Jean P. Fux, tore a quad, and has never been the same. But this man BROKE HIS NECK.
If that that not is lazy...
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who broke their neck?
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I remember seeing an article where Ronnie Coleman said that Flex Wheeler did not like training and only used it as a means to an end. Ronnie on the other hand said that he loved training and couldn't imagine being a pro bodybuilder and not enjoying training. That says something about Flex IMO.
Flex also said that he would stop training after he retired, and he got flack from all the pros about that. Well, Shawn Ray had retired and stopped training and got fat, and now is back training....Flex on the other hand is still training, never stopped trainingwho broke their neck?
Flex did.
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flex did a fight? what? last pics i saw of him he was fatty and not too big.
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Flex continued to train when he dropped down to a physique that appeared to be smaller than a current Tom Prince? I remember seeing pics of him in FLEX looking tiny and then he got bigger when he did that fight at the ASC. I was under the impression that when he got that sick and small that he stopped training. Correct me if I'm wrong.
He he did drop down in weight, so I guess he did stop traing for a period, to heal I guess.flex did a fight? what? last pics i saw of him he was fatty and not too big.
Yeah, the fight was a point (read touch) karate match.
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Ronnie has better genetics than flex because before flex touched drugs he was an extreme ectomorph.... Flex had awsome SHAPE and fullness on a tiny frame.. he was narrow compared to a thick dude like comier or coleman. Flex had awsome muscle shape but Ronnie and Comier have him beat in raw genetics. Now obviously flex had awsome genetics we are talking about out of the best grenetics on the planet comier and coleman have him beat.
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To answer the original question, YES Flex was lazy.
I've seen his first video, Hard Body, and it's rediculous. He doesn't push himself, never going to failure. It is never looking like he is really strugglin to get the weight up. And if you see the numbers he puts up, i'm seriously tellin you. 80% of the people on here could do that.
Whenever I see that vid, it doesn't make me wanna train. I just get green with envy because Flex is one on the best looking BB'ers ever.
Flex was weak and lazy, but he had the genetics to get away with it.
Peace
D
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flex wasnt lazy.
and yeah..he fought at the asc two years ago and beat this guy who was a lot bigger than him after he had all those surgeries. hes a warrior.
dorian is a pussy compared t flex. truth.
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i suggest you read "the pain and survival of flex wheeler" by john romano.
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never looking like he is really strugglin to get the weight up. And if you see the numbers he puts up, i'm seriously tellin you. 80% of the people on here could do that.
Flex was weak and lazy,
You have to remeber that Flex was 218 for the 93 O, at 5'10. That is light weight for his height. Most bbers at that height at that time were 235-245 (Chris Cormier and chris looked light)
So Flex wouldn't be putting up huge numbers. He wasn't a big dude. Shawn Ray in 2001 actually weighed more than Flex's 93 O appearance
As far as Flex being lazy, I would like to see you break your neck and come back.
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I don't know if I want to buy a book and support Flex; maybe you could fill me in a bit as to what you wanted me to get from it. I empathize with the guy going through a lot of health problems but as far as his laziness during his BBing career, IMO it speaks for itself.
not a book, it was a column in an issue of md with flex on the cover.
read it...but ill try to scan it for you. basically..it just shows the contrast between how dorian and flex was treated, and tells all about flex. like the ract tht he was STEROID FREE at the 02 olympia.
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he was STEROID FREE at the 02 olympia.
Young and naive.
(http://www.getbig.com/pics/olympia/2002/mensprejudging/wheeler01.jpg)
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Young and naive.
But, but absent...he said he was, so it has to be true !!! 8)
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Flex used to train 2 hours of cardio per day plus 2 work outs in the gym. This was going into a competition. If anyone out there says that this is laziness they are bloody dreaming.
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I am at a loss on how you can say Flex was lazy. Not exactly sure on what you mean on that. Is it because he didn't work out to your standards. Does Dexter Jackson saying he only works out 3-4 times a week mean he is lazy too?
I think when it comes to bodybuilding, you don't need to push the strongest weights, do the most reps, go all out, because you are shaping your body, not becoming a powerlifter.
Flex coming into the contests in great shape, and becoming one of the greatest bodybuilders ever certainly is not being lazy - he was sculpting the right amount at the right time.
No way was he lazy - the results, even with great genetics, showed up dedicated he was.
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Just got and nearly finished Flex's biography.Theres no way that man could be described as lazy.3-4.5 hours of cardio a day!!! to get into competition shape! it' makes me feel ill just thinking about it :P
Mr Hat.
P.S Is that the sort of cardio regime you have to do to compete?
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no i don't think so...Maybe Flex himself had to. No one knows your body better than yourself right? and as far as the topic of this thread goes....HELL NO! I have flex's video and he aint lazy.
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Ronnie has better genetics than flex because before flex touched drugs he was an extreme ectomorph.... Flex had awsome SHAPE and fullness on a tiny frame.. he was narrow compared to a thick dude like comier or coleman. Flex had awsome muscle shape but Ronnie and Comier have him beat in raw genetics. Now obviously flex had awsome genetics we are talking about out of the best grenetics on the planet comier and coleman have him beat.
Cormier might even have the worst genetics in pro bodybuilding.
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Cormier might even have the worst genetics in pro bodybuilding.
Now, or before he became a pro?
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Hi,
I keep hearing it banded about that flex was lazy when it came to training!? how so and how lazy was he? I mean to build a figure like his, genetics and drugs aside must have took him some long hard hours in the gym right? :)
A lazy person wouldnt even make it through a week of contest prep.
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Cormier might even have the worst genetics in pro bodybuilding.
??? ::) are you kidding me?
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but not a top bodybuilder. talent can take you so far. flex was one of the best OF the best in his day. you think with all the crazy competition from levrone and yates and nasser and ray he was lazy? would never have gotten nowhere. genetics is big but when you're the top 5 in the world you edged out someone with things that hard work give you.
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but not a top bodybuilder. talent can take you so far. flex was one of the best OF the best in his day. you think with all the crazy competition from levrone and yates and nasser and ray he was lazy? would never have gotten nowhere. genetics is big but when you're the top 5 in the world you edged out someone with things that hard work give you.
Nazzer himself said Flex was not lazy, and did not depend on his genetics. He said Flex won 4 Arnold classics and countless other contest, so how could he be lazy.
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Cormier might even have the worst genetics in pro bodybuilding.
::) Cormier can not train and be in better shape than 99.99% people living. I think that is good genetics.
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::) Cormier can not train and be in better shape than 99.99% people living. I think that is good genetics.
Cormier has that look in which you could just keep adding muscle to him. He doesn't look "huge", it's a weird look, I always felt he has, like a really big and cut football player. And this could be a good thing, because Ronnie has maxed out his potential, whereas Chris hasn't...
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Cormier might even have the worst genetics in pro bodybuilding.
HAHAHAH what an asshole
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Cormier has the talent for stealing food from others. ask Lee
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Three to four hours of cardio a day? There are marathon runners and triathletes who don't spend that much time on cardio. I doubt Flex could run a 7 minute mile and here he claims he did 3 to 4 hours of cardio. Complete nonsense.
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It's called low-intensity cardio... Grandpa... ::)
You know, to burn fat and not simply increase your cardiovascular endurance?
Most top pro's will be doing 2 to 3 seperate sessions a day of cardio for an hour per session leading up to a contest.
Endurance athletes do cardio at a much higher intensity to get conditioned, not to simply burn fat. Triathletes probably train atleast 3-4 hours a day. They swim, run, and bike all in one day, everyday they train. Plenty of top MMA fighters train anywhere from 6-8 hours a day for 6 days a week.
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seen his video...
seen him on bfto
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lazy...
laziest bb i have seen on video.. alongside paul dillet...
did anyone watch bfto 2002
...flex training back....
9 chinups... on a chin machine that helps you pull yourself up... by counter balancing the platform he was standing on....
dont get me wrong.. of all bb's i would probably take his shape.... ,,
but trainin wise he is lazy..from what i saw
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seen his video...
seen him on bfto
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lazy...
laziest bb i have seen on video.. alongside paul dillet...
did anyone watch bfto 2002
...flex training back....
9 chinups... on a chin machine that helps you pull yourself up... by counter balancing the platform he was standing on....
dont get me wrong.. of all bb's i would probably take his shape.... ,,
but trainin wise he is lazy..from what i saw
that was BFTO 2002, look at his 2002 video that he did, it was his training leading up to the O, it was pretty intense, and you could see that he was trying to make a point.
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i havent seen that video you talked about.....
name?
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i havent seen that video you talked about.....
name?
Name escapes me, but on the cover is a close-up pic of him kneeling (humbled amost). Rico McZClinton narrates it, and out of the three videos that Flex has, this is the most intense (and supposedly he wasn't on the jiuce)
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I think Flex, being a "smaller" bodybuilder, weight wise, wouldn't have the same capacity for heavy work as a true mesomorph like Ronnie Coleman. Also, even with juice, you don't have unlimited recovery ability. So, perhaps this variation in the way he trained vs. others was taken as laziness.
Also, I got the impression that Flex could be pretty self depricating. So, perhaps he helped that image along by making half-joking comments along the way. My dad used to quote Flex saying (after watching one of the ASCs coverage on tv) "I just eat a lot of ice cream to get big!" Flex used to say stuff like that and I think it came back around on him. I find myself doing the same thing- I told an aquaintance while I was training for a contest that I didn't mess with that "liftin weights" stuff, I just put on fake tan and oil myself up... I think he believed it! Who knows, everyone is different in what works for them in terms of training, occupation, etc etc. You gotta look past the surface to make a judgement call. Was Flex lazy? I don't know him well enough to answer that.
But, on the "natural" thing for 2002. Flex said in MD that he was on a theraputic dose of test at 200 mg. per week. Yes, that's almost nothing for a pro, but it is a help while dieting. And, other things can be used and not mentioned that might not damage the kidneys much, such as: clenbuterol, T-3, igf-1 etc. etc. I'm not trying to take anything away from him, or accuse him, as I would LOVE to look like that on only 200 mg. of test! I highly reccomend anyone who can, track down Flex's articles he did for MD detailing his own dark contest prep stories and such. It's a real eye opener for what some guys do to get in shape.
Jacob
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Unfortunately, I read his book and the book should be in the fiction section. He claimed that he was getting something like $50,000 per guest appearance, owned a 50,000 sq. foot home, and put on 80 lbs as a teenager in a couple of months when he first starting juicing. There were other ridiculous things in his book but those things just stood out as the most absurd. I lost all respect for him after reading his book. If anyone is thinking of buying it, don't waste your money.
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Unfortunately, I read his book and the book should be in the fiction section. He claimed that he was getting something like $50,000 per guest appearance, owned a 50,000 sq. foot home, and put on 80 lbs as a teenager in a couple of months when he first starting juicing. There were other ridiculous things in his book but those things just stood out as the most absurd. I lost all respect for him after reading his book. If anyone is thinking of buying it, don't waste your money.
In his Hardbody vid he talks about a house that is "3/4 of million dollars...makin' that money work for me" In his Mass Construction video, he shows you his new house and that he is adding a pool to it. So it is believable what he talks about. You have to realize in the early to mid 90's he was getting six figures from Weider, How much, I don't know, but it was under 400K at it's max, and that is minus his winnings from contests.
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You obviously haven't read his book -there's pictures of him in that before he started training. ;)
Anybody got the pics?
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Name escapes me, but on the cover is a close-up pic of him kneeling (humbled amost). Rico McZClinton narrates it, and out of the three videos that Flex has, this is the most intense (and supposedly he wasn't on the jiuce)
"Pure Resistance" is the name of the vid, Flex trained his ass off in that one ( compared to the first vid)
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At the 06' Iron Man, I overheard Shawn Ray say he couldnt workout with Flex. He said he has never met someone that could drain so much energy from him in the gym.
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pure resistence is the video in which he trained "natural"..2002
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He was on HRT while prepping for the 02 Olympia. Not really sure on the dosage, but apparently his bodies natural testoterone production shut down cause of all the years of use and abuse. But when he did the 03 Ironman he was back on, and that's when he hurt himself and competed for the last time. Supposedly, he wanted to be more marketable and make more money with the way he used to look. Well you know the rest of the story.... :-\
As far as being lazy....I dunno. I mean you can't build a physique like that being lazy. Maybe he didn't train as hard as some other pro's, but I don't think he was lazy at all when it came to getting ready for show's.
Flex's God given genetics.....drugs...con test guru's....trainers....and some decent training. BAM!!! Then you have one of the greatest bb'ers of all time.
Freak 8)
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Flex's God given genetics.....drugs...con test guru's....trainers....and some decent training. BAM!!! Then you have one of the greatest bb'ers of all time.
WORD.
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If you compare him to a maniac like Ronnie Coleman he might seem lazy (as do 99.99% of all of humanity), but no pro bodybuilder is 'lazy' no matter how genetically gifted or drugged-up they are; it just takes too many years (even decades) of consistent dedication regarding one's training and eating habits to look like that...
And everyone knows Ronnie is over-doing it when it comes to training. Hitting each bodypart heavy twice a week? Come on now, and you wonder why Ronnie has a torn lat, tricep, and quad muscle.
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Flex is definitely NOT lazy!
Nuttin' but hatin' goin' on here.
NO ONE can train with Charles Glass and be lazy.
It's impossible to place in the top 5 at the Olympia and be lazy.
I challange anyone on this board that claims Flex is lazy to DIET and TRAIN for a show.
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LAZY?????????
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^ THAT DEFINETLY DOES NOT LOOK LAZY TO ME!
BIATCHES!!! ahh HAHAHAHA!
WOOO!
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if you ever caLLED FLEX LAZY IN PEERSON HE WOULD SMASH YOU IN THE FACE.
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if you ever caLLED FLEX LAZY IN PEERSON HE WOULD SMASH YOU IN THE FACE.
Seriously he was a hot head back when he was ON, but it is part of his personality so I bet he still is. Not to mention the fact that he's black belt in whatever, don't know what degree probably 3 or 4 degree black belt by now. You don't get to that level without being a bad-motha fucka!
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Synthol=lazy. Pure and simple. At least with roids you have to train but making your delts and arms bigger with oil and training light does constitute laziness.
That was by 99, when he realized he couldn't match Ronnie in terms of size, Flex decided to commit a "syn" and go the cartoonish route.
At least he looked good with it, and never went overboard.
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I wouldn't call him lazy. Coleman made an interesting comment about Flex years ago. Said one of the major differences between the two was Coleman loves to train, whereas Flex doesn't.
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It looked pretty ridiculous by 98. His delts completely overpowered his chest. So does Royce Gracie but a brawler/wrestler like Matt Hughes beat the shit out of him. Honestly, martial arts does not necessarily win street fights or bar fights. I have heard a few stories of people with black belts getting knocked out from once punch.
Yeah but Gracie is a skinny litte mexican bitch, and Matt Hughes is a meso-morphic all-american with crazy brute strength and submission skills.
Flex with the skills he has will most likely whoop some ass against the average bodybuilder without any formal fighting experience. Or the average net geek who talks shit about him.
Of course black belts can get knocked out with a punch in the face. I could knock out Chuck Norris if I got the shot.
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He's Brazilian and he is the submission master, not Hughes. That's what Jui Jitsu is all about. As far as Flex, I think you take a crazy scrapper and he takes Flex to the ground, Flex would lose hard. He does martial arts with kicks and stuff and in a controlled setting he would beat an average guy but out in a bar he could easily lose.
Flex was talking in MD Mag one time of some dude who was trying to start some mess with him at a local bbing show, Flex was thinking about doing a "Tiger's Paw" to the dude, and Paranthesis Devers (Gail Devers bro, who is a bber broke it up. Him. Paul Dillett and Paranthesis Devers, went looking for the dude afterward. Can you imagine having Flex, Devers, and PAUL DILLETT looking to beat your ass?
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I read somewhere on here that Dorian bitched Dillet onstage and Dillet took it like a little girl. Considering that Dorian got punched out I think we can assume this: guy who punched out Dorian < Dorian < Dillet.
What? Who the hell punched out Dorian? Dorian was def. a scrapper in his earlier days, and just one look at him says it all. He's a hardass. Look at his face!
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I read somewhere on here that Dorian bitched Dillet onstage and Dillet took it like a little girl. Considering that Dorian got punched out I think we can assume this: guy who punched out Dorian < Dorian < Dillet.
Dorian "bitched" Dillet onstage? How did he "bitch" him exactly? (other than totally owning him on back poses)
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It was a year or two ago if I'm not mistaken. Apparently he got punched int he face and had a shiner to show for it.
Dude sucker-punched him, he was hired by a promoter than an "issue" with Dorian. Dude was a MMA competitor He shoved him at one of the Olympias.
Dillett owed him on stage at the 1993 Mr. O, during the posedown Dorian was doing some poses and Dillett got right in front o him and did a lat spread (as bad as Dillett's was it eclipse Dorian while in front of him)
Flex and Ray tried shoving Ronnie at the 99 O, but Ronnie moved "Oilboy" and Playa aside like little kids
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What? Who the hell punched out Dorian? Dorian was def. a scrapper in his earlier days, and just one look at him says it all. He's a hardass. Look at his face!
I believe Dorian showed up at another function last year with a black eye. Apparently there has been more than one occasion in recent years where Dorian was on the losing end of a fight. :D
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Lotsa Playa Hating going on in this thread....Flex did the damn thing. No doubt about it....If he hadn't doubted himself so much and felt better about himself I believe he would have won a Sandow. It wasn't laziness so much as it was a lack of confidence.
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Oil in muscles=lazy.
Sorry - it made him look awesome! :-*
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Story about ninjas preventing him from doing the 97 O=lazy but creative.
HAHAHA ???
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no oooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooo HOW YOU CAN BE LAZY AND A PHYSIQUE LIKE THAT . DON'T GIVE THAT BS THAT IT'S ALL DRUG'S !!!
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Flex was talking in MD Mag one time of some dude who was trying to start some mess with him at a local bbing show, Flex was thinking about doing a "Tiger's Paw" to the dude, and Paranthesis Devers (Gail Devers bro, who is a bber broke it up. Him. Paul Dillett and Paranthesis Devers, went looking for the dude afterward. Can you imagine having Flex, Devers, and PAUL DILLETT looking to beat your ass?
Can you imagine how cracked out you have to be to name your kid Paranthesis?
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wheeler was a bit lazy..ift any one does not believe me just go and watch bfto 1996 where flex trains legs..damn it seems like he is half asleep while doing his workouts...
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Hell no, He only had to do what he had to to. And look where it got him. The man is a legend in the sport of bodybuilding.
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Unless you were his training partner how the hell would u know anything...
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Because you f-ing moron........ The man was great. So if he trained lazy big f-ing deal! Every time he hit the stage he looked awesome. Who the fuck are you to come on here and knock one of the greatest bodybuilders of all time? "If it aint broke....Don't fix it" and that goes for Flex too. Whatever the hell he did....it worked, and worked well.
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Because you f-ing moron........ The man was great. So if he trained lazy big f-ing deal! Every time he hit the stage he looked awesome. Who the f**k are you to come on here and knock one of the greatest bodybuilders of all time? "If it aint broke....Don't fix it" and that goes for Flex too. Whatever the hell he did....it worked, and worked well.
I agree...theres no way he was Lazy. My brother is lazy and he sure don't look like flex wheeler.
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Wouldn't it be nice if he would make a comeback? If Don Long can, why not he?
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Wouldn't it be nice if he would make a comeback? If Don Long can, why not he?
becuz he might care about his health
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how can you call the man lazy. he has gone down as one of the greatest bodybuilders ever and hes getting shit because he didnt turn out to be the greatest ever
I agree...theres no way he was Lazy. My brother is lazy and he sure don't look like flex wheeler.
he was a genetic freak dude, fucked up problem with kidneys and producing hormones.. he trained half as hard as the rest, which is why he got half of the results.
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he was a genetic freak dude, fucked up problem with kidneys and producing hormones.. he trained half as hard as the rest, which is why he got half of the results.
wow, one of the greatest bb's to grace the earth and he got half the
results?? Dont think so.
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wow, one of the greatest bb's to grace the earth and he got half the
results?? Dont think so.
I think he means half the results of his genetic potential. But you can say that about anyone. Maybe Lee Haney only reached half of his genetic potential. But, there is no way flex wheeler was lazy, it takes alot to look like that...you can't just be a freak with good genitics and take the drugs. It takes effort to become anything.
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I think he means half the results of his genetic potential. But you can say that about anyone. Maybe Lee Haney only reached half of his genetic potential. But, there is no way flex wheeler was lazy, it takes alot to look like that...you can't just be a freak with good genitics and take the drugs. It takes effort to become anything.
I agree with you... Haney retired at what 32? Who knows how many more olympias he could have won. As far as drugs go, you still have to lift the weights in order to get big. And with genetics, genetics help w/ the overall look of a person, but again you still have to bust your ass in order to look like flex did...
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What I'm saying is that flex didn't train nearly as hard as others did.. and that's why he didn't get further
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What I'm saying is that flex didn't train nearly as hard as others did.. and that's why he didn't get further
what the hell are you taliing about? Flex is probably in the top 3-5 bb's of all time. Just cuz he didnt win the mr olympia doesnt mean he is lazy.. check his contest record and then tell me where he was lazy.
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Flex Wheeler was not lazy. there game over.
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Flex Wheeler was not lazy. there game over.
:-X ;D
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whats the difference if he was or was not lazy...
he was one of the best bbers ever, thats what counts...if he got there by slacking in the gym...well, fuk me, wish I could do same - slack training and look as stunning as he was...
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whats the difference if he was or was not lazy...
he was one of the best bbers ever, thats what counts...if he got there by slacking in the gym...well, f**k me, wish I could do same - slack training and look as stunning as he was...
me too!
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Kidneys--liver--Heart--these things don't just get diseased overnight...He was probably having kidney problems for years and didn't even know it...That alone could make anyone tired all the time...If you really take a look at the pros and even national level comp/today, alot of them are walking zombies...And its not just because of the weight they carry...
Joe Rogan from Fear Factor has stated that he gets alot of beefed up guys that try out for the show and during the physical, they find quite a few guys that have heart problems that they didn't even know they had...Maybe even saving some of these guys lives...