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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Steroids Info & Hardcore => Topic started by: Pneumothorax on January 14, 2017, 02:00:54 AM
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So starting TRT, mid 30s. Test has gone from 300 when I tested in 2012 and primary care doc told me don't worry about it, to 215 and 235 in the last month. Free test is consistently in the 80s. So I started at a male wellness clinic and the Doc there started me on Test cyp 130 every week and HCG 250 units 1 time a week, but I have to try to bill insurance myself and I have to come in weekly until we get the dosage correct and then maybe do an implant. New primary doc is offering test cyp 200mg bi weekly, but seems like he's pretty ignorant about TRT, like when I asked what test level he is shooting for he said "Well anything as long as it's in the normal range". Primary doc also doesn't offer any HCG, haven't asked about anti estrogen but I'm assuming he would probably not give that either.
I guess my main thing at this point is the cost, I have to try to bill insurance myself for the male wellness clinic or pay $35-50 per week for the test shot and $9 for the HCG. Primary doc may be able to bill for me but the staff is retarded and doesn't know if it's covered until they try to bill.
My question, is the HCG shot really necessary or beneficial? Is being able to get an anti estrogen prescribed worth it or are they easy enough to get black market if my primary Doc won't give it?
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So starting TRT, mid 30s. Test has gone from 300 when I tested in 2012 and primary care doc told me don't worry about it, to 215 and 235 in the last month. Free test is consistently in the 80s. So I started at a male wellness clinic and the Doc there started me on Test cyp 130 every week and HCG 250 units 1 time a week, but I have to try to bill insurance myself and I have to come in weekly until we get the dosage correct and then maybe do an implant. New primary doc is offering test cyp 200mg bi weekly, but seems like he's pretty ignorant about TRT, like when I asked what test level he is shooting for he said "Well anything as long as it's in the normal range". Primary doc also doesn't offer any HCG, haven't asked about anti estrogen but I'm assuming he would probably not give that either.
I guess my main thing at this point is the cost, I have to try to bill insurance myself for the male wellness clinic or pay $35-50 per week for the test shot and $9 for the HCG. Primary doc may be able to bill for me but the staff is retarded and doesn't know if it's covered until they try to bill.
My question, is the HCG shot really necessary or beneficial? Is being able to get an anti estrogen prescribed worth it or are they easy enough to get black market if my primary Doc won't give it?
If cash is short you can skip the HCG for a while, not gonna die, but generally I feel a lot better with HCG, read a few articles about how the testes produce other hormones other than test that are good for health.
You can buy generic AI from tons of online sites, a lot of pharmacies in the world like turkey india etc. they sell this stuff OTC, PM me and I can give info if you need
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Thanks for the advice. I'm thinking I'm going to stick with the male wellness clinic for now and see what happens. I do like the HCG shot, I've gotten it twice now and it really does improve my mood and motivation.
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Vial of 10 cc test without insurance is 85 bucks
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Worm you mean 25 bucks lol
Seriously though last sale I got 3 vials for 21 each plus shipping, it was 85 for 3 10ml vials of 250mg/ml enanth
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Worm you mean 25 bucks lol
Seriously though last sale I got 3 vials for 21 each plus shipping, it was 85 for 3 10ml vials of 250mg/ml enanth
I got the name brand. But yeah, shouldn't be costing him 59 a week!
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Vial of 10 cc test without insurance is 85 bucks
So I went to the pharmacy here in my town and apparently the cash price cost of 200mg vial of Test Cyp is ~$48. Still seems high. The male wellness clinic offers package deals if I pay for a bunch of shots up front which can get the price down to about $38 per week test+hcg. It's not that I don't have the money, I just would rather get the insurance to pay for it as long as it's roughly equal service. So, this week I'm going to go into the PCP and get his injection see how much it costs copay+what insurance doesn't cover, and still do the HCG shot and the other 130mg shot at the TRT clinic.
I'll be completely honest that HCG shot is pretty damn nice, I got one on Friday and I was feeling pretty outstanding for about 48 hours. I can definitely tell when that wears off.
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Probably not worth it to order it online, but 250mg of test enan or cyp a week cost me 3 dollars. Hcg would be 10 at most.
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Yeah, I know it's probably much cheaper to get it online, but I've got job commitments and I need to be able to pass a drug test or show a prescription if I pop positive for something.
Update, I went to my PCP and after sitting in the office for an hour before getting seen for a shot + script only visit I decided that I'm just gonna go with the male wellness clinic. Good service should count for something, I get in and out of there in 20 minutes and that's getting a 5-10 minute talk with the doctor, a hot assistant checking my vitals and weight.
I'm still waiting to get the 200mg vials from the pharmacy, but I was told it would be $50 a bottle but it could be more. So after doing all the math I figured that the difference in cost going to my PCP vs the wellness clinic is about $800 per year, so about $65 a month. For the extra money at the clinic I'm getting better service, HCG injections and the doctor actually has a goal for treatment other than getting me within the 300-900 range. I'm going to do it for a year at the wellness clinic and then maybe shop around some more for a cheaper price.
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Good to hear.
I'm about to start HRT,,, it's a big decision on injecting the rest of my life and scared of heart attacks and prostate cancer, but the quality of life is more important.
Plus I am finding more and more the dangers of low test.
I came off a cycle of deca 6-800 a week x 13 weeks, test 400 x 16 weeks. I am 6 weeks off everything right now, finished Pct last week. Going to wait 4 more weeks and get labs, if test is below 300, fuck it, I'm going on TRT. Excited but somewhat hesitant on injecting x life
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Have you guys tried dhea? Seriously... that stuff makes me feel fantastic... improved mood, well being, reduced body fat and improved sleep, too. Its stupid cheap, effective, legal and available anywhere. Underrated hormone, imo - worth a try.
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Definitely go weekly shots. Always do what makes you feel best. If you read the trt forums seriously 80% of guys even whilst on trt have issues and feel like shit. They get fucked up protocols from doctors.
Worm - I never get why people are scared? If you are genuine low test (I was mega bad) the reality is your health will suffer and quality of life is shit. I always remind myself just how bad things were prior to getting on so even if I might not feel like.taking.a.ahot I know I will feel all the better doing so anyway.
Trt isn't the devil, having genuine low test levels that destroy your life and not doing anything to help yourself.... That's the devil.
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Definitely go weekly shots. Always do what makes you feel best. If you read the trt forums seriously 80% of guys even whilst on trt have issues and feel like shit. They get fucked up protocols from doctors.
Worm - I never get why people are scared? If you are genuine low test (I was mega bad) the reality is your health will suffer and quality of life is shit. I always remind myself just how bad things were prior to getting on so even if I might not feel like.taking.a.ahot I know I will feel all the better doing so anyway.
Trt isn't the devil, having genuine low test levels that destroy your life and not doing anything to help yourself.... That's the devil.
Thanks! That makes me feel better, and I now completely agree with you now that I study the research. The more studies I read show how bad low test is
When I was on cycle last I remember saying to myself this is the best I felt mentally (happiest) in my life.
My only issue is that I always only check labs off a deca /test cycle.
I been off everything x 6 weeks, off Pct x 1 week. How long should I wait before I check labs? Now or wait
another month?
I would love to not have to go through another PCT in my life, sucks ass!
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Definitely go weekly shots. Always do what makes you feel best. If you read the trt forums seriously 80% of guys even whilst on trt have issues and feel like shit. They get fucked up protocols from doctors.
Worm - I never get why people are scared? If you are genuine low test (I was mega bad) the reality is your health will suffer and quality of life is shit. I always remind myself just how bad things were prior to getting on so even if I might not feel like.taking.a.ahot I know I will feel all the better doing so anyway.
Trt isn't the devil, having genuine low test levels that destroy your life and not doing anything to help yourself.... That's the devil.
Yeah, I'm gonna go with the weekly shot. All the stuff I've been reading suggests doing test cyp injections twice a week, so even doing it weekly might end up with some peaks and valleys. But doing it once every 2 weeks just isn't going to be enough.
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Yeah, I'm gonna go with the weekly shot. All the stuff I've been reading suggests doing test cyp injections twice a week, so even doing it weekly might end up with some peaks and valleys. But doing it once every 2 weeks just isn't going to be enough.
Go and look up Dr John Crisler's TRT protocol. He also offers online advice and consultations, can find him on Facebook. From a youtube vid I saw, basically he advocates pinning a small amount of test prop daily (like 10-15 mg) (together with HCG, pregnenolone, and DHEA as supplements). Basically this daily pinning is supposed to mimic how the body naturally produces test. The problem with pinning once a week is that your levels are supra physiological the first one or two days after you pin, then drop precipitously towards the end of the week. Smaller, more frequent injections keep blood levels more stable
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Go and look up Dr John Crisler's TRT protocol. He also offers online advice and consultations, can find him on Facebook. From a youtube vid I saw, basically he advocates pinning a small amount of test prop daily (like 10-15 mg) (together with HCG, pregnenolone, and DHEA as supplements). Basically this daily pinning is supposed to mimic how the body naturally produces test. The problem with pinning once a week is that your levels are supra physiological the first one or two days after you pin, then drop precipitously towards the end of the week. Smaller, more frequent injections keep blood levels more stable
Good luck getting prop. My HRT clinic wouldn't give it to me, another clinic charges 150 for 10 ml prop. I believe daily injection are best to.
How does he give the dhea or pregnolone?
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Yeah, I'm gonna go with the weekly shot. All the stuff I've been reading suggests doing test cyp injections twice a week, so even doing it weekly might end up with some peaks and valleys. But doing it once every 2 weeks just isn't going to be enough.
What is the story behind your screen name? :-\
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It's probably too much to get into, however, I was on TRT for 6 months. Test Cyp 150/week after slowly increasing the doses after about 2 months all legal under Doctors care, (or lack thereof, since he wouldn't prescribe Anastrozole) All I got was gyno, decreased libido and shrunken balls. Side effects gone now after ceasing injections. I can elaborate more if anyone cares. Although I did notice a slight increase in muscle density and strength, no way it was worth it to me, not yet anyway, at 39 years old. Been training since I was 21.
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It's probably too much to get into, however, I was on TRT for 6 months. Test Cyp 150/week after slowly increasing the doses after about 2 months all legal under Doctors care, (or lack thereof, since he wouldn't prescribe Anastrozole) All I got was gyno, decreased libido and shrunken balls. Side effects gone now after ceasing injections. I can elaborate more if anyone cares. Although I did notice a slight increase in muscle density and strength, no way it was worth it to me, not yet anyway, at 39 years old. Been training since I was 21.
I would like to hear more.
I think all your sides could have been prevented by checking labs and see where your estrogen was, and sides prevented with an AI and hcg.
I'm thinking about starting TRT cause my quality of life sucks right now... tired, no motivation, just don't feel myself or happy at all even though I have a near perfect life etc. I think the mental well being is much more important than my balls shrinking.
But seriously, I ran test and deca cycles and never had a side effect because I used proper ancillaries
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I would like to hear more.
I think all your sides could have been prevented by checking labs and see where your estrogen was, and sides prevented with an AI and hcg.
I'm thinking about starting TRT cause my quality of life sucks right now... tired, no motivation, just don't feel myself or happy at all even though I have a near perfect life etc. I think the mental well being is much more important than my balls shrinking.
But seriously, I ran test and deca cycles and never had a side effect because I used proper ancillaries
yes I'll put some more info up soon, probably grab my lab results and such. I do know, my prolactin levels went up, causing some concern from the Dr. It's since leveled back down but I'm no longer on TRT, and I don't know what my T levels are, but I am pretty sure they are hovering between 200-240, because I initially began TRT at 240. I've never taken drugs in my life, been training since I was 21 and I turn 40 next month. I was interested in TRT for probably the same reasons everyone is. I'm healthy in every aspect, but because of my love of gym time, I was like, "sure, lets try it." And as I've mentioned, the side effects weren't worth the little bit of positive body composition changes I noticed, as well as a bit of strength increase. I should post my lab results when I'm not at work, lol. The highest my T levels got on TRT was about 900, while injecting 150/once a week, of Test Cyp. Sigh. I was hoping for the positive sexual benefits we all "hear" about. My sexual being is normal now. I wasnt having problems prior to TRT, however, the Test robbed me of overall interest, and honestly I did feel the Test in a way "desensitized" my overall interest and confidence to even use it, lol. This is just one man's experience though.
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I really think if you had ur estrogen under control then there wouldn't have been an issue. Something went wrong with ur experience
Test levels of 200 is no way to lead life, look up low test and mortality. Low T is linked to increase death rate even after they factor in for obesity and smoking.
People on androgen deprivation therapy have much higher risks of heart disease, even as early as 6 months...
I m thinking about TRT and I know from my cycle experience, when I run 400 mg with AI and hcg I feel unbelievable! It's the happiest time in my life, sex drive get too high and I'm rock hard...
I think if u redid HRT with proper ancillary meds, you'd have a very fldifferent experience
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I really think if you had ur estrogen under control then there wouldn't have been an issue. Something went wrong with ur experience
Test levels of 200 is no way to lead life, look up low test and mortality. Low T is linked to increase death rate even after they factor in for obesity and smoking.
People on androgen deprivation therapy have much higher risks of heart disease, even as early as 6 months...
I m thinking about TRT and I know from my cycle experience, when I run 400 mg with AI and hcg I feel unbelievable! It's the happiest time in my life, sex drive get too high and I'm rock hard...
I think if u redid HRT with proper ancillary meds, you'd have a very fldifferent experience
This experience is exactly what I was hoping for, lol. Because I was under Doctors care, my estrogen levels fell within "normal" range, although I personally thought it was too high, due to my sides. I need to post my actual labs soon, sorry, I'm meaning to do it. I thought Arimidex actually decreased sex drive, no? If I was to do it again, I would try and find a clinic that agrees to prescribe A-dex, because my primary Dr. will not, or find a way to get it from an alternative source. Anyone have any luck with the peptides? Like, is this a good choice for A-dex or Clomid via peptides?
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This experience is exactly what I was hoping for, lol. Because I was under Doctors care, my estrogen levels fell within "normal" range, although I personally thought it was too high, due to my sides. I need to post my actual labs soon, sorry, I'm meaning to do it. I thought Arimidex actually decreased sex drive, no? If I was to do it again, I would try and find a clinic that agrees to prescribe A-dex, because my primary Dr. will not, or find a way to get it from an alternative source. Anyone have any luck with the peptides? Like, is this a good choice for A-dex or Clomid via peptides?
Arimidex is easy to get, just as is hrt.. almost too easy lol
Arimidex will not lower drive in and of itself, its all about estrogen, if too low it will lower sex drive
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Arimidex is easy to get, just as is hrt.. almost too easy lol
Arimidex will not lower drive in and of itself, its all about estrogen, if too low it will lower sex drive
In my case, while on TRT, my estrogen was within "normal" although a bit elevated. My prolactin levels were high. A question I still have is: Does Testosterone administration alone increase sex drive/mood/performance as the "clinics" boast, IF the estrogen/estrodiol and prolactin levels are kept from rising?
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In my case, while on TRT, my estrogen was within "normal" although a bit elevated. My prolactin levels were high. A question I still have is: Does Testosterone administration alone increase sex drive/mood/performance as the "clinics" boast, IF the estrogen/estrodiol and prolactin levels are kept from rising?
Yes.
Prolactin rises cause of increasing estrogen I believe. I used .5 arimidex twice a week and felt like I was 18 again. You can always get arimidex from these HRT clinics pretty easy, or I'd see an endocrinologist as they know more of what's going on.
I'm 38 and getting labs done on Thursday and I'm somewhat excited if their low so I can start HRT but I'm hesitant cause I know it's a life commitment. I wonder when test undeconate will be released
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Yes.
Prolactin rises cause of increasing estrogen I believe. I used .5 arimidex twice a week and felt like I was 18 again. You can always get arimidex from these HRT clinics pretty easy, or I'd see an endocrinologist as they know more of what's going on.
I'm 38 and getting labs done on Thursday and I'm somewhat excited if their low so I can start HRT but I'm hesitant cause I know it's a life commitment. I wonder when test undeconate will be released
Thanks for sharing. I want to remind us, that I did get gyno on one side of my chest, and to my surprise, it completely went away after ceasing the TRT. I am obviously very sensitive to estrogen for whatever reason. I had gyno surgery 6 years ago to remove the lump on my right chest after taking a (then legal) pro-hormone, so I was aware of the possibility of gyno but was hoping I wouldn't get it again. So if I do ever run Test again, this is a real concern, actually, the main concern is how to manage estrogen and prolactin properly. Not sure if I mentioned it earlier, but I was running A-dex from a "gym source" the last 3 weeks of my time on TRT and it de-sensitized the gyno a bit but certainly didn't dissolve/remove the pain/lump. 2 weeks after my last injection when I decided to quit, I saw and endocrinologist and requested Clomid to recover my balls, lol. Luckily, she wrote a 'script. I may add that 6 months of all the doctor visits and labs and Test (which was the cheap part) cost me about $1500 bucks. Kinda sad about it, lol. Still leaves me with lots of questions though, as to, "what went wrong?" I believe it's more complicated than just taking A-dex, but, I'm still trying to educate myself in case I do it again the future.
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Been busy so updating on my progress.
Just to update, been getting the weekly shot of Test Cyp 130, and 250 units HCG.
Also, I ended up with some extra Test Cyp, and ended up getting a second shot of 200mg 2 times in the last month, I did them usually 3 days after my shots at the clinic. I could definitely feel the extra Test Cyp shot for like a week afterward, everything was bigger and my workouts were intense. I can see how it could be addictive to run a huge amount of Test all the time.
I can feel the HCG shot for about 2 or 3 days after I get it. Usually, my energy spikes and I can feel it.
My muscles feel fuller, my strength is up and I'm losing body fat slowly.
My mood is much less irritable and I feel more motivated to do things around the house.
I haven't had any labs drawn yet but I think my level might be getting into the high normal range consistently as my libido is off the charts for several weeks now. I'm wearing out my wife. In general I'm walking around about 5-15% erect, which I'm thinking is the Test, but it could be extra blood volume from excess fluid.
I'm starting to get soreness in my right nipple area though for about 3 days now. And my BP is slightly higher from 120s/70s, to 130s/70s. I'm hoping as my body adjusts and if I add more cardio to my workouts my BP will drop back down.
I'm getting my labs drawn this Monday coming up so that will tell the story. Overall, I'm really liking everything about TRT so far. My mood and motivation have improved vastly, my libido is way up and getting to the clinic once a week hasn't been a problem. The nipple soreness is no big deal as I was kind of expecting some gyno, and as long as my body tolerates TRT and I can keep my blood pressure good. I will just have to get a surgery to remove those glands. I haven't noticed any hair loss yet, but I was already getting some baldness prior to the TRT.
Later on tonight I will go through and respond to the previous posts.
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I like aromasin much better than adex. Also, if prolactin and ED are an issue, a little prami goes a long way.
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I like aromasin much better than adex. Also, if prolactin and ED are an issue, a little prami goes a long way.
Is aromasin easy for a doc to prescribe? They only wanna write arimidex
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Is aromasin easy for a doc to prescribe? They only wanna write arimidex
I'm surprised they'll write it for arimidex. My dr said it was "cosmetic".
Also, carefull withbdoing "extra" shots.. Your bloodwork could come out high n the dr may drop the dose. Depends on the dr. I had one dr say "we don't care how high it goes, w only care about how low it goes".. Cpl months later new dr says test is way too high we gotta lower it. Did a 200 cyp shot on monday and bloodwork on wed n came back 1400. Dr didnt understand halflives. Lol
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aromasin by phyzer is good shit.
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I'm surprised they'll write it for arimidex. My dr said it was "cosmetic".
Also, carefull withbdoing "extra" shots.. Your bloodwork could come out high n the dr may drop the dose. Depends on the dr. I had one dr say "we don't care how high it goes, w only care about how low it goes".. Cpl months later new dr says test is way too high we gotta lower it. Did a 200 cyp shot on monday and bloodwork on wed n came back 1400. Dr didnt understand halflives. Lol
Yep I was concerned about that. I have a few more of the extra shots and likely will have a couple of extra ones each month for the foreseeable future, but like you said, I don't want the level to come in high and end up getting my weekly dose lowered. I took the last extra shot on Jan 30th and I'm going to wait until after this next Monday to get my labs drawn and see my results before I do any more extra shots. The Dr I'm seeing at the clinic seems to be pretty knowledgeable as he said the normal procedure is to get the labs drawn then get my weekly dose, so he can see what the low level is. Which to me seems common sense but as I've been reading TRT forums, some doctors do some strange shit to people.
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TRT docs dont like anti oestrogen's as they kill HDL levels which are already under attack from age and the TRT, getting bloodwork done prior and when on them will support their argument, stable low doses won't aromatise in most experiences, especially if you use a long ester like enanthate, I pin 75mgs or around .33ml subcutaneously every 5-7 days, provides an upswing only it doesn't feel like I'm on gear like years ago and its not supposed to, High test is a negative at my age 46 I want all the health benefits and none of the negatives, this dose most guys won't feel, I haven't done a cycle in over 10 years, and reluctantly take TRT as body never recovered from competitive days, so i want the lowest possible dose, there is defiantly a benefit on this low amount if you are coming from a clean or long time, coming off 250-600mgs you won't feel any benefit.
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TRT docs dont like anti oestrogen's as they kill HDL levels which are already under attack from age and the TRT, getting bloodwork done prior and when on them will support their argument, stable low doses won't aromatise in most experiences, especially if you use a long ester like enanthate, I pin 75mgs or around .33ml subcutaneously every 5-7 days, provides an upswing only it doesn't feel like I'm on gear like years ago and its not supposed to, High test is a negative at my age 46 I want all the health benefits and none of the negatives, this dose most guys won't feel, I haven't done a cycle in over 10 years, and reluctantly take TRT as body never recovered from competitive days, so i want the lowest possible dose, there is defiantly a benefit on this low amount if you are coming from a clean or long time, coming off 250-600mgs you won't feel any benefit.
I just started trt at a dose of 25 mg every 3 days, and I feel great! My plan is to get labs done and dial in the perfect dose that keeps me from needing an AI
Once that happened I can maybe do some hgh or something like oxandrolone which I love but it destroys my hdl... the only other thing my doc will write is nandrolone