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Getbig Misc Discussion Boards => Religious Debates & Threads => Topic started by: OzmO on April 27, 2006, 09:27:49 AM

Title: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: OzmO on April 27, 2006, 09:27:49 AM
On one of these subject threads someone made the assertion that liberals cannot be Christians.  I'm curious to hear and debate the reasoning.
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Mr. Intenseone on April 27, 2006, 09:56:27 AM
How can one accept Jesus as his/her Lord and Saviour then go aginst then blatenly go aginst the scriptures? Just because one say they believe in God does not make them a Christian. Most Liberals I know don't even believe in God. I realize that that Christians go against scripture everyday and as I've said before, being a Christian is the absolute hardest thing a person can do, but, again, for example, MOST Liberals do support abortion, gay marriage, homosexulality, etc. How can a Liberal call themselves Christian and support these beliefs??

OzmO, I've been reading your posts and even though we don't agree on somethings, I like the way you have unbias opinions on both sides of the arguments.
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Johnny Apollo on April 27, 2006, 10:19:32 AM
Define "Liberal".

Define "Conservative"


Don't list what they support or don't support.


Define the word "Liberal" and define the word "Conservative".
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: OzmO on April 27, 2006, 11:30:15 AM
Quote
How can one accept Jesus as his/her Lord and Saviour then go aginst then blatenly go aginst the scriptures? Just because one say they believe in God does not make them a Christian. Most Liberals I know don't even believe in God. I realize that that Christians go against scripture everyday and as I've said before, being a Christian is the absolute hardest thing a person can do, but, again, for example, MOST Liberals do support abortion, gay marriage, homosexulality, etc. How can a Liberal call themselves Christian and support these beliefs??

I think if you look at literally, conservatives and liberals go against the scriptures often, but not the same ones.  There a lot of details in the Bible (if i remember it right) about such things as how women should dress for example, that conservatives don't follow.  I can do some quick research and list some more later tonite maybe if i have time.  In regards to liberals supporting gay marriage, homosexuallity, etc...  Obviously not every liberal is gay and aborts their own children.  In fact i'm sure the percentage is close or reasonably proportionate to the national percantages.  Maybe Johnny will give us some stats on the subject.  I would think some liberals might believe that everyone is allowed (by God's gift of Man's free will) their own choices.  If they chose to go against it that's their issue with God.  From what i was taught in a non-denominatinal christian chruch was that if you belive Jesus was god on earth, was ressurected, and accept him as your savior who died for your sins, then you are a Christian. 

Romans 5 i believe says something like you are "justified by Faith". Their are so many things that can be constituted as a sin or that go against the scriptures.  If we are not careful by restricting people who can belong to a church based on whether or not they follow the bible 100% might leave us with a empty church.

As for living as a Chirstian.   About 10 years ago a good friend of mine helped me during a terrible time of need for me.  He was as close to a Bible literalist as i've ever seen.  He truely lives as the Bible tells him.  He has no TV, Home schools his 4 Children, His wife always wears dresses etc...  for a short time i went to his church and learned so much about Christianity that with chatholism i wasn't ready to learn or couldn't learn.  And although i do not mostly believe in what he or his church believes i have the up most repect for how he lives his life and the struggles he has doing so.  We are good friends and i talk withhim often.

Johnny, later maybe today, if i have some time,  i'll define them for you; or perhaps you can for us.   8)

 
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Butterbean on April 27, 2006, 12:23:23 PM
If we are not careful by restricting people who can belong to a church based on whether or not they follow the bible 100% might leave us with a empty church.

 

"MIGHT" leave us w/an empty church is too gracious. 

If we restricted people who can belong to a church based on whether or not they follow the bible 100% we WOULD ABSOLUTELY be left with an empty church.

No one is capable of even following the 10 Commandments.

Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Oldschool Flip on April 27, 2006, 12:45:41 PM
lib·er·al    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (lbr-l, lbrl)
adj.

Not limited to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry.
Favoring proposals for reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and behavior of others; broad-minded.
Of, relating to, or characteristic of liberalism.
Liberal Of, designating, or characteristic of a political party founded on or associated with principles of social and political liberalism, especially in Great Britain, Canada, and the United States.

Tending to give freely; generous: a liberal benefactor.
Generous in amount; ample: a liberal serving of potatoes.
Not strict or literal; loose or approximate: a liberal translation.
Of, relating to, or based on the traditional arts and sciences of a college or university curriculum: a liberal education.

Archaic. Permissible or appropriate for a person of free birth; befitting a lady or gentleman.
Obsolete. Morally unrestrained; licentious.

n.
A person with liberal ideas or opinions.
Liberal A member of a Liberal political party.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English, generous, from Old French, from Latin lberlis, from lber, free. See leudh- in Indo-European Roots.]




con·ser·va·tive    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (kn-sūrv-tv)
adj.
Favoring traditional views and values; tending to oppose change.
Traditional or restrained in style: a conservative dark suit.
Moderate; cautious: a conservative estimate.

Of or relating to the political philosophy of conservatism.
Belonging to a conservative party, group, or movement.
Conservative Of or belonging to the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom or the Progressive Conservative Party in Canada.
Conservative Of or adhering to Conservative Judaism.
Tending to conserve; preservative: the conservative use of natural resources.

n.
One favoring traditional views and values.
A supporter of political conservatism.
Conservative A member or supporter of the Conservative Party in the United Kingdom or the Progressive Conservative Party in Canada.
Archaic. A preservative agent or principle.



Both from Dictionary.com

I am both a..............libervati ve....uh................ .conserberal...........g otta find a word ;D
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: w8tlftr on April 27, 2006, 12:56:15 PM
Interesting topic.

What makes anyone a Christian, IMO, is their willingness to accept Christ as savior and try to serve the will of God as best they can. This holds true for social liberals or conservatives.

As Stella pointed out it's hard to try to be a lawful man which makes grace so important in our faith as Christians - it's our safety net.

Regardless of political affiliation we need to respect the free will of others. People have to be empowered to either succeed or fail based on their own decisions. Now this does not mean in anyway that we have to approve of their behavior or live in a world of anarchy. People still have to be held accountable for their actions. The $25,000 question is, accountable to whom? If it's a matter of God's law then only He is fit to judge. If it's the law of man then those authorized to enforce the law will hold them accountable.

If the law says that it's a woman's right to an abortion then fine it's her right. While I find it morally wrong, I respect her rights under the law and, more importantly, I'm not the one she has to ultimately answer to. Does that make me less of a Christian? I don't think so. I am still mandated to love and respect her and be there to help her up when she falls.

If one falls down, his friend can help him up. But pity the man who falls and has no one to help him up! (Ecclesiastes 4:10).

In the end liberal and conservative are just words in a dictionary. It's all about compassion and love.


Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Colossus_500 on April 27, 2006, 01:08:24 PM
Interesting topic.

What makes anyone a Christian, IMO, is their willingness to accept Christ as savior and try to serve the will of God as best they can. This holds true for social liberals or conservatives.

As Stella pointed out it's hard to try to be a lawful man which makes grace so important in our faith as Christians - it's our safety net.

Regardless of political affiliation we need to respect the free will of others. People have to be empowered to either succeed or fail based on their own decisions. Now this does not mean in anyway that we have to approve of their behavior or live in a world of anarchy. People still have to be held accountable for their actions. The $25,000 question is, accountable to whom? If it's a matter of God's law then only He is fit to judge. If it's the law of man then those authorized to enforce the law will hold them accountable.

If the law says that it's a woman's right to an abortion then fine it's her right. While I find it morally wrong, I respect her rights under the law and, more importantly, I'm not the one she has to ultimately answer to. Does that make me less of a Christian? I don't think so. I am still mandated to love and respect her and be there to help her up when she falls.

If one falls down, his friend can help him up. But pity the man who falls and has no one to help him up! (Ecclesiastes 4:10).

In the end liberal and conservative are just words in a dictionary. It's all about compassion and love.




Well said, bro.  Good post. 
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: OzmO on April 27, 2006, 01:24:41 PM
Quote
If the law says that it's a woman's right to an abortion then fine it's her right. While I find it morally wrong, I respect her rights under the law and, more importantly, I'm not the one she has to ultimately answer to. Does that make me less of a Christian? I don't think so. I am still mandated to love and respect her and be there to help her up when she falls.

If one falls down, his friend can help him up. But pity the man who falls and has no one to help him up! (Ecclesiastes 4:10).

In the end liberal and conservative are just words in a dictionary. It's all about compassion and love

Well said.
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: w8tlftr on April 27, 2006, 01:44:22 PM
Thanks, guys.  :)

Every once in a while I get it right.  :P

Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Johnny Apollo on April 27, 2006, 02:31:04 PM
If the law says that it's a woman's right to an abortion then fine it's her right. While I find it morally wrong, I respect her rights under the law and, more importantly, I'm not the one she has to ultimately answer to. Does that make me less of a Christian? I don't think so. I am still mandated to love and respect her and be there to help her up when she falls.


So if someone has the right to throw you into a concentrantion camp during war time "under the law" do you respect that too?

What if we went to war with some asian country and the president like in WW2 mandated that all Asians are to be locked up into concentrantion camps for fear of them being spies..Would you respect that?


This whole "I respect the law" is nonsense. The law doesn't determine morality. If it's immoral to prevent a woman from removing a part of her own body then whatever the law says doesn't make a difference.
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: w8tlftr on April 27, 2006, 02:42:26 PM

So if someone has the right to throw you into a concentrantion camp during war time "under the law" do you respect that too?

What if we went to war with some asian country and the president like in WW2 mandated that all Asians are to be locked up into concentrantion camps for fear of them being spies..Would you respect that?


This whole "I respect the law" is nonsense. The law doesn't determine morality. If it's immoral to prevent a woman from removing a part of her own body then whatever the law says doesn't make a difference.

Johnny, does it hurt?



Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: OzmO on April 27, 2006, 03:00:30 PM
Quote
What if we went to war with some asian country and the president like in WW2 mandated that all Asians are to be locked up into concentrantion camps for fear of them being spies..Would you respect that?

We did go to war with an asian county, Japan.  And it was only Japanese Americans who immagrated from Japan, persons of Japanese ancestry, and Japanese nationals, not Chinese, Philipino, Thia, Burmease etc... whom are all considered asian.

Not a very bright spot among others for U.S. History.


Quote
So if someone has the right to throw you into a concentrantion camp during war time "under the law" do you respect that too?


The differnce can be argued on the basis of when a fetus becomes a person.  If the fetus isn't considered a person in the first trimester  then there isn't a victim to the action other then the woman.

If you throw a person into prison camp then there is a victim.

So the comparison it's a bit extreme. 

If you believe the fetus is a person upon conception then you have a victim and a tough issue.  Which it has been.

Quote
This whole "I respect the law" is nonsense. The law doesn't determine morality. If it's immoral to prevent a woman from removing a part of her own body then whatever the law says doesn't make a difference.

The law may not determine it but it does govern it and influence it's identity.  The law(s) is neccessary  becuase our society and humans, in general, haven't evolved as a whole to the point of understanding and abstaining from commiting immoral acts with out consequences both spiritually and physically.

Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Johnny Apollo on April 27, 2006, 03:04:44 PM
We did go to war with an asian county, Japan.  And it was only Japanese Americans who immagrated from Japan, persons of Japanese ancestry, and Japanese nationals, not Chinese, Philipino, Thia, Burmease etc... whom are all considered asian.

Not a very bright spot among others for U.S. History.



Point being....The whole "I respect laws" makes no sense. If we went to war with whatever country W8lftr's ancestors come from and the president ordered all of them who's ancestors come from that country are to be locked up in concentrantion camps. My question was if he'd respect such a law. Obviously he wouldn't proving the hypocrisy.



The differnce can be argued on the basis of when a fetus becomes a person.  If the fetus isn't considered a person in the first trimester  then there isn't a victim to the action other then the woman.

If you throw a person into prison camp then there is a victim.

So the comparison it's a bit extreme. 


What are you talking about? If there is no victim in abortion then what's the problem?

W8lftr claimed that he believes aborition is immoral but since it's legal he respects the laws and womans rights.

His claim that it's immoral must mean there's a victim.



If you believe the fetus is a person upon conception then you have a victim and a tough issue.  Which it has been.

The law may not determine it but it does govern it and influence it's identity.  The law(s) is neccessary  becuase our society and humans, in general, haven't evolved as a whole to the point of understanding and abstaining from commiting immoral acts with out consequences both spiritually and physically.

You're making no sense yet again.

All I was saying is that considering w8lftr thinks it's immoral already he doesn't beleive the law supporting it is moral. Yet he still supports womens rights to do it. Which is hypocritical.
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: OzmO on April 27, 2006, 03:29:40 PM
Quote
His claim that it's immoral must mean there's a victim.

I believe he's claiming that it's immoral has to do with going against God.

Quote
All I was saying is that considering w8lftr thinks it's immoral already he doesn't beleive the law supporting it is moral. Yet he still supports womens rights to do it. Which is hypocritical.

I'm not trying to speak for him, however i believe he's saying that he is against the act, but another person or government doesn't have the right to tell that person what they can do with their body.  I could be wrong.

Now about me not making sense.

I think you might have got the thing mixed up.  I'll take the blame for that.

1st part.

Beleive fetus is a person at conception and abort = victim

Beleive fetus is a person after 1st trimester an abortion is before that = non victim

Libertarian view of non-victimised crimes = perhaps you can explain?

2nd part

People in general, NOT just you, have not evloved mentally and emotionally not to commmit immoral acts becuase of the simple fact that they are immoral.  Like perhaps yourself or you think of yourself.  I donno.

Therefore Laws or guidelines, Religous and Governmental, provide and system for the execution of consequences for immoral acts.

Kill a person = go to jail

Kill a person also = go to hell



More clear now?



Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Oldschool Flip on April 27, 2006, 04:08:18 PM

So if someone has the right to throw you into a concentrantion camp during war time "under the law" do you respect that too?
Wouldn't happen. Point is moot.

Quote
What if we went to war with some asian country and the president like in WW2 mandated that all Asians are to be locked up into concentrantion camps for fear of them being spies..Would you respect that?
Wouldn't happen. We are at war with Iraq...haven't locked them up. ;D


Quote
This whole "I respect the law" is nonsense. The law doesn't determine morality. If it's immoral to prevent a woman from removing a part of her own body then whatever the law says doesn't make a difference.
That's what the CRIMINALS in PRISONS thought too.
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: w8tlftr on April 27, 2006, 06:35:21 PM
I believe he's claiming that it's immoral has to do with going against God.

I'm not trying to speak for him, however i believe he's saying that he is against the act, but another person or government doesn't have the right to tell that person what they can do with their body.  I could be wrong.

Now about me not making sense.

I think you might have got the thing mixed up.  I'll take the blame for that.

1st part.

Beleive fetus is a person at conception and abort = victim

Beleive fetus is a person after 1st trimester an abortion is before that = non victim

Libertarian view of non-victimised crimes = perhaps you can explain?

2nd part

People in general, NOT just you, have not evloved mentally and emotionally not to commmit immoral acts becuase of the simple fact that they are immoral.  Like perhaps yourself or you think of yourself.  I donno.

Therefore Laws or guidelines, Religous and Governmental, provide and system for the execution of consequences for immoral acts.

Kill a person = go to jail

Kill a person also = go to hell



More clear now?





You got it right, OzmO.
 
I would never participate in an abortion because of my beliefs. If the Supreme Court decides that it is a woman's right then it is regardless of my religious beliefs. This is what I mean when I say I have to respect the law. If the law were unconstitutional then we're talking something else. The examples Johnny was using would be a violation of my rights so I would not respect them.

And, Johnny, you haven't answered my question. Does it hurt?



Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Colossus_500 on April 28, 2006, 05:00:32 AM
Only thing I would change with what W8tlftr is saying is that I will always continue to fight the battle against abortion (with few exceptions), because I believe our government is wrong to allow it in the first place. 
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: w8tlftr on April 28, 2006, 09:01:03 PM
Satan accepts Republicans and Democrats alike.  They're all going to see me at some point! Hahahahaha!!!

Welcome to getbig, Mr. Jack Abramoff.

Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: OzmO on April 29, 2006, 02:24:35 PM
Quote
Satan has a special place in his heart for politicians.

So is that your thing hilltop?  You like to pretend to be the devil to screw with people?

Geez, grow up or at least come up with a more mature and intellegent way trying to brain f**k poeple.
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Johnny Apollo on April 30, 2006, 03:24:24 PM
More clear now?

No.

You're going off on things I never even commented on.

Let me make it simpler for you.

w8lftr wrote.

Quote
If the law says that it's a woman's right to an abortion then fine it's her right. While I find it morally wrong, I respect her rights under the law and, more importantly, I'm not the one she has to ultimately answer to. Does that make me less of a Christian? I don't think so. I am still mandated to love and respect her and be there to help her up when she falls.

He's implying that he respects peoples rights under the law even if those rights are immoral.

Get it?

He's implying he respects the law even if it isn't moral. That's what he's saying.
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Johnny Apollo on April 30, 2006, 03:25:40 PM
Wouldn't happen. Point is moot.


That's exactly what they thought prior to WWII when they locked japanese Americans up.

Read up on American History.


Wouldn't happen. We are at war with Iraq...haven't locked them up. ;D

We aren't at "war" with Iraq. I already explained this to you.

That's what the CRIMINALS in PRISONS thought too.


So?
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: OzmO on April 30, 2006, 05:32:56 PM
Quote
You're going off on things I never even commented on

You never commented on this:

Quote
If you believe the fetus is a person upon conception then you have a victim and a tough issue.  Which it has been.

The law may not determine it but it does govern it and influence it's identity.  The law(s) is neccessary  becuase our society and humans, in general, haven't evolved as a whole to the point of understanding and abstaining from commiting immoral acts with out consequences both spiritually and physically.

When you wrote:

Quote
You're making no sense yet again.

You are dense sometimes.  Or just frustrated.

You need to get out more a socialize with people on non serious subjects.

go watch a si-fi movie and try your best not to point out all the scientific mis conceptions and inaccuratcies and just enjoy it.

Now back to this

Quote
So if someone has the right to throw you into a concentrantion camp during war time "under the law" do you respect that too?

Which is the post i commented on.  Which was a relative comment on this post:

Quote
If the law says that it's a woman's right to an abortion then fine it's her right. While I find it morally wrong, I respect her rights under the law and, more importantly, I'm not the one she has to ultimately answer to. Does that make me less of a Christian? I don't think so. I am still mandated to love and respect her and be there to help her up when she falls.

Here i'm  talking about morality and how the law determines or identifies it.

Don't worry Johnny i'm finding a way to draw pictures for you.

AND  don't think this is some attack on your  Self-esteem Intellingence

You are smart.

You know your numbers.

You are a scientist.

And Dog-gone-it!  People like you!

And if you post a picture of yourself you will gain some credibilitiy back.  Just some however.  You remember you still own those gyms supposidly and the 20+ racial comments too.

Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: w8tlftr on April 30, 2006, 05:43:15 PM
He's implying that he respects peoples rights under the law even if those rights are immoral.

If the Supreme Court determines that abortion is a woman's protected right under the U.S. Constitution I have to respect the law regardless of whether or not I think it's immoral.

What's so hard to understand about that, Nazi-Bot?

The scenarios you outlined would be a violation of my constitutional rights so I would not respect them.

For person who claims to be smart you're awfully thick.  ::)

Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Johnny Apollo on April 30, 2006, 08:44:50 PM
The scenarios you outlined would be a violation of my constitutional rights so I would not respect them.

They violated constitutional rights back in the 1940's but that didn't matter now did it?
Executive Order 9066 was in clear violation of the constitution but we still did it didn't we?


Secondly the constitution only means what the supreme court interprets it as. If the supreme court somehow interpreted that you COULD be locked up..Would you respect that?


Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: w8tlftr on May 01, 2006, 03:57:10 AM
They violated constitutional rights back in the 1940's but that didn't matter now did it?
Executive Order 9066 was in clear violation of the constitution but we still did it didn't we?

Secondly the constitution only means what the supreme court interprets it as. If the supreme court somehow interpreted that you COULD be locked up..Would you respect that?


You just can't admit when you're wrong can you, Nazi-Bot?

You're pretty dumb for a "smart" guy.  ::)

Just because I have to respect a womans right to abortion (if the Supreme Court says it's her right) doesn't mean I won't fight it through other legal means.

Nice pic of you, BTW. To bad you couldn't delete it fast enough. LOL

Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Oldschool Flip on May 01, 2006, 11:20:25 AM

That's exactly what they thought prior to WWII when they locked japanese Americans up.

Read up on American History.
Point is moot because the majority Americans (espcially ACLU, NAACP) will NOT approve of it happening again, because of the backlash from the WWII atrocity. :P


Quote
We aren't at "war" with Iraq. I already explained this to you.
Yeah clear as "mud". ::)

Tell me...What's the difference between what America is doing currently in Iraq and a "war"? ::)
Nothing according to you.

Quote
So?
They're in prison for "not respecting the law" and breaking it! DUH! ::)
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Johnny Apollo on May 01, 2006, 05:13:30 PM
You just can't admit when you're wrong can you, Nazi-Bot?

You're pretty dumb for a "smart" guy.  ::)

Just because I have to respect a womans right to abortion (if the Supreme Court says it's her right) doesn't mean I won't fight it through other legal means.

Nice pic of you, BTW. To bad you couldn't delete it fast enough. LOL




More insults among gibberish...Typical post of yours.


First of all..If you respect their legal right to do something then you fight against it via other legal means..This makes no sense. It's a contradiction.

Second of all....Nice pic of me? What pic?
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Johnny Apollo on May 01, 2006, 05:16:29 PM
Point is moot because the majority Americans (espcially ACLU, NAACP) will NOT approve of it happening again, because of the backlash from the WWII atrocity. :P

Those Civil liberty groups are small and liberals represent a small number of Americans. IN a time of war.."Real war" Americans will not care what the constitution says. The vast majority wouldn't protest it.

When you're scared you give up your civil liberties. Does the Patriot act ring a bell? Wire tapping? Where's the ACLU?  ::)


Yeah clear as "mud". ::)
Nothing according to you.
They're in prison for "not respecting the law" and breaking it! DUH! ::)


I explained this to you already. It isn't my fault you have a 5th grade education and lack basic reading skills.


America isn't in a "war" with Iraq. What we did was no different from a war but that's the whole point now isn't it?
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: w8tlftr on May 01, 2006, 06:24:42 PM

More insults among gibberish...Typical post of yours.


First of all..If you respect their legal right to do something then you fight against it via other legal means..This makes no sense. It's a contradiction.

Second of all....Nice pic of me? What pic?

It makes no sense because you're an idiot who can't admit when he's been owned. Silly, Nazi-Bot.  ::)

I can "fight" it by protesting and educating people on the consequences of abortion. If the Supreme Court says it's a constitutional right then it is - regardless of my beliefs. If someone wants to get one it's their choice, however, it still doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion. Why can everyone but you understand this?

The pic you posted on the forum then immediately tried to remove. Unfortunately for you it was on long enough for copies to get distributed.

(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=61093.0;attach=76095;image)

Monster shoulders, btw. Are they are result of your underground boxing career?  ::)

Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Johnny Apollo on May 01, 2006, 06:35:55 PM
It makes no sense because you're an idiot who can't admit when he's been owned. Silly, Nazi-Bot.  ::)

I can "fight" it by protesting and educating people on the consequences of abortion. If the Supreme Court says it's a constitutional right then it is - regardless of my beliefs. If someone wants to get one it's their choice, however, it still doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion. Why can everyone but you understand this?


Why fight it if you "respect it"? That makes absolutely no sense.


The pic you posted on the forum then immediately tried to remove. Unfortunately for you it was on long enough for copies to get distributed.

(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=61093.0;attach=76095;image)

Monster shoulders, btw. Are they are result of your underground boxing career?  ::)


HAHA! Where did I supposedly post this?


I already mentioned I don't have a Camera or a Scanner but all of a sudden I'm able to post pictures of myself?


 ::)
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: w8tlftr on May 01, 2006, 06:43:59 PM

Why fight it if you "respect it"? That makes absolutely no sense.

It makes sense if you respect free will. Everyone has the right to make their own decisions but it doesn't mean I won't try to issue warnings and try to talk sense to someone.


Quote
HAHA! Where did I supposedly post this?

I already mentioned I don't have a Camera or a Scanner but all of a sudden I'm able to post pictures of myself?

 ::)

Suuuuuuurrrre you didn't Johnny. You're a shiney beacon of truth on these boards.  ::)

It's your pic and until you PROVE that it's not it will remain the gay atheist Nazi pic.  :-*


Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Johnny Apollo on May 01, 2006, 06:55:06 PM
It makes sense if you respect free will. Everyone has the right to make their own decisions but it doesn't mean I won't try to issue warnings and try to talk sense to someone.


Then you're against laws that prevent abortion if it's free will?


Suuuuuuurrrre you didn't Johnny. You're a shiney beacon of truth on these boards.  ::)

It's your pic and until you PROVE that it's not it will remain the gay atheist Nazi pic.  :-*


That isn't how it works. YOU are the one making the initial claim that it's my picture. So until YOU prove it's my picture...It isn't.

Burden of proof.  The one making the initial claim(You) has the burden of proving their claim.

Claim it's me? So prove it.


You're just showing your lack of intelligence once again. The picture of the homosexual "oldschoolflip" posted you and the other christians instantly beleived it was me. More proof of your credulity.
Then someone posts claiming this is my picture and once again you instantly believe it's me.

What the fuck? How stupid are you? Is your bar of proof so damn low that you accept whatever it is you want to beleive? It'd be great to believe i'm some skinny geeky looking guy wouldn't it? So that's what you beleive! Despite the fact there is absolutely no evidence it's me..You still believe!

But of course you're a Christian so what else should I expect? You believe a 2,000 year old book that says a man lived inside of a whale for a month is true!


 ::)
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: w8tlftr on May 01, 2006, 08:21:35 PM

Then you're against laws that prevent abortion if it's free will?



That isn't how it works. YOU are the one making the initial claim that it's my picture. So until YOU prove it's my picture...It isn't.

Burden of proof.  The one making the initial claim(You) has the burden of proving their claim.

Claim it's me? So prove it.


You're just showing your lack of intelligence once again. The picture of the homosexual "oldschoolflip" posted you and the other christians instantly beleived it was me. More proof of your credulity.
Then someone posts claiming this is my picture and once again you instantly believe it's me.

What the f**k? How stupid are you? Is your bar of proof so damn low that you accept whatever it is you want to beleive? It'd be great to believe i'm some skinny geeky looking guy wouldn't it? So that's what you beleive! Despite the fact there is absolutely no evidence it's me..You still believe!

But of course you're a Christian so what else should I expect? You believe a 2,000 year old book that says a man lived inside of a whale for a month is true!


 ::)

You're a rock. You really really are. My statement is clear to EVERYONE but you. You have to disagree with me for sake of disagreeing.

You're an idiot and a LIAR, Nazi-Bot.

Now piss off and go attend your Hitler Youth Group meeting.



Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Johnny Apollo on May 01, 2006, 10:16:52 PM
You're a rock. You really really are. My statement is clear to EVERYONE but you. You have to disagree with me for sake of disagreeing.

You're an idiot and a LIAR, Nazi-Bot.

Now piss off and go attend your Hitler Youth Group meeting.


Typical after being refuted..

Call me names and refer to my joke about being a nazi against me...


 ::)
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Oldschool Flip on May 02, 2006, 04:11:11 AM
Those Civil liberty groups are small and liberals represent a small number of Americans. IN a time of war.."Real war" Americans will not care what the constitution says. The vast majority wouldn't protest it.
Yeah, now your a phsychologist! You DON'T KNOW what the AMERICAN people would say. I'm AMERICAN. Born and raised. I SAY NO. Oops, there goes that "theory". Boy, you're a great psychic!

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When you're scared you give up your civil liberties. Does the Patriot act ring a bell? Wire tapping? Where's the ACLU?  ::)
Patriot act doesn't IMPRISON INNOCENT PEOPLE. ACLU is there and trying to overturn it, but Patriot Act was designed to wire tap and detain "suspected" terrorists. Even Bill Maher agrees with this. And he hates Bush.



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I explained this to you already. It isn't my fault you have a 5th grade education and lack basic reading skills.
If you'd quit ranting like a fifth grader maybe we'd get somehere!


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America isn't in a "war" with Iraq. What we did was no different from a war but that's the whole point now isn't it?
Your implication is WE ARE AT WAR. If that is your feeling, than we haven't LOCKED UP IRAQIS. Here's one better,
when CONGRESS DECLARED WAR ON AFGHANISTAN, Did we lock up Afghanistan/Americans? UHHHHH NOPE!
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: w8tlftr on May 02, 2006, 04:29:05 AM

Typical after being refuted..

Call me names and refer to my joke about being a nazi against me...


 ::)

Johnny, does it hurt?

You know, when you keep talking out of your ass?

Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Oldschool Flip on May 02, 2006, 04:36:49 AM
Johnny, does it hurt?

You know, when you keep talking out of your ass?


Johnny reminds me of a guy that I used to work with. He'd just try to piss everyone off because that's the only way people would pay attention to him. And he was a University of Berkley graduate too, majoring in physics and mathematics! Curtis Sloan is that you?!!! Naw Curtis would never go to Blythe!
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: OzmO on May 02, 2006, 08:19:04 AM
yup......yup     ahhhh  yup

"no you are"

"Yes you're not"

Stoney sloany rides again!

Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: OzmO on May 02, 2006, 08:41:16 AM
BTW  he lost it.  too much crank,  lives in a shelter last i heard.  he came by about 4 years ago.  He was practically incoherant and just babbled most of the time.  I had to kick him out of the office.
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: a_joker10 on May 02, 2006, 10:05:14 AM
I am a Christian Liberal, and there are many like me. I believe that the society should help the weak. The social movement started in Canada was founded by Church ministers, and was based on the policy of government being able help out in a socially responsible manor based in Christian beliefs.
I feel a free and just society can be best accomplished with a liberal government.
Issues like abortion or same sex marriage are not only divisive in the conservative liberal debate, but also in the Christianity. Abortion and same sex marriage are a social issues, faith can help you decide which side you fit, but being a liberal or a conservative is based on not only these issues but on a multitude more. If you are a liberal Christian and against abortion, this is possible, then you should try to change the direction of the party of your choice to better suit your views.
There are deferent forms of Christianity like the United church in Canada that recognize a wide range of more socially liberal views.Just as there are more conservative churches including the Catholic church that have opposing views.
Conservative churches don't represent all of Christianity. Just as atheists don't represent all liberals.
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Oldschool Flip on May 02, 2006, 11:15:57 AM
I already mentioned I don't have a Camera or a Scanner but all of a sudden I'm able to post pictures of myself?


 ::)
Same way I did. Got my brother to email me a pic and I posted it.
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: Oldschool Flip on May 02, 2006, 11:19:26 AM
BTW  he lost it.  too much crank,  lives in a shelter last i heard.  he came by about 4 years ago.  He was practically incoherant and just babbled most of the time.  I had to kick him out of the office.
That's really SAD. He was funny and sometimes a nice guy, but irritating as hell. I NEVER saw him while he did meth or crank, but BO told me when I was there last time. BTW we playing poker when I get there in July? I need to make some money! Make sure we have some schlubs there.
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: OzmO on May 02, 2006, 10:47:09 PM
Bring your A-Game pinnoy!
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: 24KT on May 05, 2006, 02:42:00 PM
After reading through this entire thread, I truly have to wonder how Mr. Intenseone manages to put his pants on in the morning. He must have help dressing himself.

Well said Joker! I'm proud to call you my countryman!

Intenseone, ...since picking up a bible has a tendency to scorch my fingers (foul Liberal that I am),
...which specific one of the 10 Commandments decrys homosexuality? ???
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: OzmO on May 05, 2006, 02:48:27 PM
It's not in the 10 commandments,  it's in acts or one fo the letters from  paul i believe.  He calls it a "vial affection"
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: 24KT on May 05, 2006, 02:54:18 PM
It's not in the 10 commandments,  it's in acts or one fo the letters from  paul i believe.  He calls it a "vial affection"

Thank You. That was my point.

I don't understand why he's so against men loving other men.
If anything, ...more chicks for him to choose from,
...unless Peggy spoiled it for him and he's secretly fighting his inner calling? ???
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: w8tlftr on May 05, 2006, 07:12:16 PM
After reading through this entire thread, I truly have to wonder how Mr. Intenseone manages to put his pants on in the morning. He must have help dressing himself.

Well said Joker! I'm proud to call you my countryman!

Intenseone, ...since picking up a bible has a tendency to scorch my fingers (foul Liberal that I am),
...which specific one of the 10 Commandments decrys homosexuality? ???

It was the tablet that was dropped containing commandments 11 thru 15. See History of the World Part I for reference material.

It's number 13. Thou shall not be icky.  :P



Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: 24KT on May 05, 2006, 08:07:54 PM
It was the tablet that was dropped containing commandments 11 thru 15. See History of the World Part I for reference material.

It's number 13. Thou shall not be icky.  :P


{lol}  That kind of logic from the pizza delivery guy doesn't make sense.
A "Dirty Sanchez", ...now THAT'S icky!  :-X
Title: Re: What makes a liberal a non-Christian?
Post by: w8tlftr on May 05, 2006, 09:40:58 PM
{lol}  That kind of logic from the pizza delivery guy doesn't make sense.
A "Dirty Sanchez", ...now THAT'S icky!  :-X

Hey, I said when I deliver pizza my name is "Dirty Sanchez" not that I perform a "dirty sanchez". LOL