To make a long story short, the participants voted to eliminate the 2 weight classes. Arnie was the only one that wanted to keep the split and Boyer Coe asked him why. Arnie make some tuff guy remarks to him and Mentzer told him to cool it. Arnie told Mike he lost to Robbie Robinson in a past show because he was too fat and Mentzer blew his stack. Arnie being the pussy he is backed down. ;D
lol it says in Arnold's book that he was quite a brawler!
Funny that there are actual pictures of Arnold sitting (some claim he sat when Mike approached him) and Mike practically standing over him pointing his finger.
Great photo. I bet if Mentzer had stepped closer, Waller would have stood up and crushed him. Waller was a braller, who would mix it up. ;D
That guy sitting down has such small legs and arms. He kind of looks like him. Can anyone definitely say thats Kenny. I will call him tommorrow and find out. I trained with him numerous times back in the late 70's and early 80's and I keep looking at that pic and I just don't see it. A little but......... I will find out. But, yes I think Kenny could hav taken Arnold and Mike and I think Mike could have taken Arnold. Arnold was not a fighter or tough guy. He was a good talker and talked his way out of shit. And he was never alone most of the time. At least when I saw him.
Yep that's the Big Red Machine!
Keith you mentioned that you would call him. If you haven't talked to Ken in awhile that might be an exercise in futility.
Bill Grant on his last trip out to LA tried to get a hold of Ken. He called Extreme Activewear where Ken worked and they told Bill that he didn't work there anymore and as soon as his house sold he was moving back east with his son.
No one seems to know where he ended up, St Louis perhaps? (I believe his sister lives there)
I interviewed Ken for Ironage a year or so ago and this is the last update that I know of.
http://ironage.us/articles/preston-waller.html
Great photo. I bet if Mentzer had stepped closer, Waller would have stood up and crushed him. Waller was a braller, who would mix it up. ;D
I think Waller would have been a bastard to start with, there are pics of him using 150's in the incline bell press in the early 70's.
I always got the same impression from that photo . . . sort of a Volume vs.H.I.T ( Boyer was using Mentzers methods then and was pissed at Arnold ) old school vs new school thing.Supposedly it was the difference in training philosophies as well as personal dislikes. A little surprising if true-apparently Schwarzenegger got bent out of shape about Mentzer's training and how it discredited Arnold's approach, which seems more than a little small.
That was a good interview with Waller on ironage.com. Why did I always think Waller was Aussie? Weird... I wonder where I got that idea. So he was born & raised in Kentucky then?
Could you have been thinking of Roger Walker, who was actually UK born, but became an aussie citizen later and competed in the 1980 Olynmpia (like Waller)?
Here he is on the far right, back row (for some reason he kept staring at Arnold in just about every 1980 'O' shot I've seen of him)!
No, I wasn't confusing him with Walker but Roger did look pretty awesome at the 1980 Olympia. I always wondered if he would've done better if he'd had any kind of tan, which he did not. He definitely should've gotten better than 6th place.
Yep that's the Big Red Machine!
Keith you mentioned that you would call him. If you haven't talked to Ken in awhile that might be an exercise in futility.
Bill Grant on his last trip out to LA tried to get a hold of Ken. He called Extreme Activewear where Ken worked and they told Bill that he didn't work there anymore and as soon as his house sold he was moving back east with his son.
No one seems to know where he ended up, St Louis perhaps? (I believe his sister lives there)
I interviewed Ken for Ironage a year or so ago and this is the last update that I know of.
http://ironage.us/articles/preston-waller.html
pussy? no way. he was breaking his balls and all he wanted was for the guy to melt down.Excactly, He did the same to Ferrigno, Oliva & half the others from back in the day. That was his way of making the compitition nervous so they couldn't think straight come posing time.
Needless to say, Mentzer was not a threat to Arnold's throne as Mike ended up third, behind Chris Dickerson. If anyone had a chance to beat Arnold it was Chris and not Mike.
Mentzer was mad because Arnold entered the contest at the very last minute. The rules stated that all competitors must register 3 weeks prior to the contest - this rule was obviously waived for Arnold. You see Conan was supposed to start filming in 1981, however that date was brought forward unexpectedly. The first scenes were to be shot in August 1980. In addition, Universal, the films distributor was going to use thise footage as a promo along with it's Christmas release of Flash Gordon. All of a sudden, Arnold had to get big, and fast. The best way to get big - and to get attention doing so - was to attempt the unthinkable: to make a comeback! You see Arnold was scheduled to arrive in Sydney as a TV Commentator only - so you can imagine everyone's surpise when he registered to compete at the very last minute. Mentzer was pissed. Reg Park was also put in a precarious position as he was one of the judges and of course him and Arnold were very close. Paul Graham was the promoter of that event and him and Arnold were also very close - he is the big guy who pulls Arnold in and hugs him in the very beginning of the movie Pumping Iron. The argument between Arnold and Mike Mentzer was over the fact that Boyer Coe was instrumental in getting the IFBB rules changed for the 1980 Olympia so that instead of a winner being chosen from the best of two weight classes he would emerge from six all-comer finalists. Arnold was the only one who objected to this. Arnold wanted only two weight classes, that way there is only one man to beat. Mentzer got pissed and told Arnold that he was acting like a baby and Arnold said to Mike, " If your belly wasn't as big as your mouth, then maybe you would have a chance at this event". Mike then jumped up and got in Arnold's face and Arnold just sat cooly and laughed it off...Classic example of mental psyche-out which Arnold was famous for since it almost always worked. Needless to say, Mentzer was not a threat to Arnold's throne as Mike ended up third, behind Chris Dickerson. If anyone had a chance to beat Arnold it was Chris and not Mike.
Actually a slight correction--Frank Zane and Boyer Coe took 3rd and 4th places respectively, leaving Mike in fifth place which was even more of a slap in the face from the powers-that-be.
From what I read in past & old articles....this is what I remember
Go on..
Could you have been thinking of Roger Walker, who was actually UK born, but became an aussie citizen later and competed in the 1980 Olynmpia (like Waller)?
Here he is on the far right, back row (for some reason he kept staring at Arnold in just about every 1980 'O' shot I've seen of him)!
pussy? no way. he was breaking his balls and all he wanted was for the guy to melt down.
Great photo. I bet if Mentzer had stepped closer, Waller would have stood up and crushed him. Waller was a braller, who would mix it up. ;D
Waller was a tough, ex-football playing country boy.
The Mentzer hype in that show was overrated. His chest was flat and other than his conditioning, nothing really stood out.
Arnold, even at his worst, still had that unbeatable structure.
Mentzer has more mass?
Where?
(http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=73618.0;attach=82329;image)
Quote from: FREAKgeek on August 17, 2006, 09:00:11 PMThat pic proves that even at less than his best, Schwarzenegger had better aesthetics, refinement, muscle maturity and structure, even when he was not what he had been. Also had a height advantage.
The Mentzer hype in that show was overrated. His chest was flat and other than his conditioning, nothing really stood out.
Arnold, even at his worst, still had that unbeatable structure.
Mentzer was unbeatable that day due to his combo of mass and symmetry.
Waller was a tough, ex-football playing country boy.CFL, like Ferrigno.
Kenny loved to fight. I told a story on the history about when me,Kenny, Manny Perry and Ron Depolito were walking across the street in frontof World Gym. A car with 3 or 4 guys almost hit us. Kenny ran at least a mile after these guys. We jumped in the car and chased after him. He said he was hoping they would hit a red light or stop sign. Hewas funny.
That pic proves that even at less than his best, Schwarzenegger had better aesthetics, refinement, muscle maturity and structure, even when he was not what he had been. Also had a height advantage.
Mentzer was never as good as hyped IMO, and while good was always the 3-4th best BB in the world-both Schwarzenegger & Zane had better aesthetics & structure in that pic. Mentzer had virtually no detail in parts of his upper body-arms, chest, delts, etc. He was not clearly better than Schwarzenegger in 1980; if he hadn't been so carried away with himself, Mentzer might've accepted this and tried to get better instead of having a career-ending meltdown when he lost.
CFL, like Ferrigno.
Mentzer was bigger, harder, more conditioned and balanced than any other BB out there at the 1980 Mr O, as anyone with eyes can clarly see for himself from that comparison shot
Only proves that you have a bias for his type of physique, because the pic does not show him to be quite as good. I never liked his physique, especially the extreme lack of refinement and detail in areas like arms and chest. Also lacked shoulder to waist differential relative to both Schwarzenegger and Zane as can be seen in that pic, in addition to his lack of refinement, detail and aesthetics.
He was never quite as good as Robinson, Padilla or Fox, let alone Szkalak who beat him.
I did like the way he stood up to Schwarzenegger though; it demolishes the whole theory that Schwarzenegger propogates endlessly that he was always able to psyche out his opponents, which was largely made-up BS.
Give the man his due when better BBs like Robinson, Padilla, Fox and Szkalak were also denied because of politics? You show no balance obsessing on just Mentzer.
I just find it hard to believe that folks can continue to deny the man his due when anyone with eyes and a brain can see he was by far the best BB that day.
My friend, I've already stated that all of the above BBs were awesome too (except that Kalman left the spoty way too early) but right here we are talking about Mentzer and the '80 Olympia. Isn't that what this thread's title says? I just find it hard to believe that folks can continue to deny the man his due when anyone with eyes and a brain can see he was by far the best BB that day.
You never liked his physique? Who's the one being biased now? You mention shoulder to waist differential but conveniently neglect to consider sorely lacking aspects of both the Zane and Shwarzenegger physique, at least in that '80 show anyway. Like I said, Mentzer was the most balanced and complete physique that day, along with the vascular mass he carried. MM had a tight waist, bigger than Zane's, but that was to be expected with his torso looking TWICE as massive. I just don't get why folks like yourself continually overlook the obvious; it's a crime! Just give the man his due. Arms and pecs thicker than Arnie's, frame BROADER despite being far shorter than Arnie, and legs destroying Arnie's toothpicks...points that destroy your arguments I'm afraid. Frank looked like Christine Zane next to Mike; it was almost a complete joke! Padilla and Robinson were phenomenal too but not in the lineup that day. ;)
Here is your crybaby being destroyed by Zane's conditioning in 1979.
(http://dnj23.onesite.com/images/index33.jpg)
His dogmatic assumption that it's all about intensity and not volume IS WRONG. A certain amount of volume is still predominantly anerobic and necessary for hypertrophy. Muscles want work. Too much intensity leaves your nervous system taxed.
Agreed, moderation between the two extremes makes more sense and is less taxing. Even a HIT proponent like Viator believed in the advantages of pre-contest volume training, for the refinement it provided.
Mentzer was always overrated to some extent-he just didn't have that much refinement to warrant the hype that he himself believed. Zane looks a lot better other than the size difference. Mentzer didn't even have a decent tan; all those little things add up.
No obvious advantage over Arnold. That it was fixed is another story.
Silly. He was placed 5th. Blind as a bat and far the best?
Here's your boy getting owned again by zane
(http://dnj23.onesite.com/images/mro1980.jpg)
Why does everyone think Mentzer is such a BB'ing martyr?
He is a pioneer of nothing but drivel.
He endorses Power Factor Training, by Sisco and Little, what a joke.
Not true in '80; maybe in '79 but not the following year.You're obviously way biased & resolute in your denial of it-he doesn't look so great in those shots either. As mentioned and as you refuse to acknowledge, he did NOT do a good job with the little details that can make a crucial difference: he had as usual insufficient muscular refinement in some areas of the upper body, had no tan & looked pasty, etc. even in 1980. Both Zane & Schwarzenegger had those attributes and looked polished, he didn't. Typical of Mentzer & HIT in general there's a smugness there that led to his downfall, that his fans also seem to retain as if they know better than anyone else. ;D
Was Zane knocked-kneed? In every photo you see of him he seems to point his knees inwards, to emphasize the size of his upper body maybe?I've seen that so many times in his poses; should've learned to avoid that as much as possible, though part of it might've been structural. He was never an ideal in that respect despite the rhetoric involving his aesthetics, IMO.
Further evidence of Mentzer with virtually *no* detail or refinement (as usual), washed out, pasty..Zane had all the refinement, detail & polish that Mentzer lacked. Mentzer was as oblivious to this as you are which is why he was devasted and retired, like a little baby.
The "only" problem with your constant flimsy excuses is that my observations hold for all pics in this thread. ;D ;D ;D Basically you can't even entertain let alone accept the reality that you're a Mentzer groupie who is 100% blinded/deluded by fanaticism. I don't have any particular bias or preference for any of the guys in that contest.
Mentzer was never the best guy in any contest I've seen-*always* lacked refinement and polish in key areas of the upper body. ;)
My "case": endless blathering and excuses against Mentzer.Your case: pics don't lie. ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Zane had all of those things that Mentzer lacked. Deal with it.
Take a good look at your Mike "no cuts" Mentzer posters and be honest with yourself.. ;D ;D ;D ;D
My misguided, deluded, pathetic lil' friend, definition does count for something obviously but at the end of the day, the sport's called BODYBUILDING.Forgetting Zane, there were "only" 4-5 other guys who could regularly beat Mentzer: Robinson, Padilla, Fox, Szkalak, etc. I like your taste in BBs! ::) ::) ::)
Forgetting Zane, there were "only" 4-5 other guys who could regularly beat Mentzer: Robinson, Padilla, Fox, Szkalak, etc. I like your taste in BBs! ::) ::) ::)
Also, Arnold is a natural alpha male: a man who was born to rule. It's obvious that Arnold's ability to play mind and political games was superior to Mike's: Arnold completely and utterly dominated all the men around him, through a combination of intimidation, false flattery and outright deceit. Mike never had a chance. The fact that he publicly criticized Weider and his training methods, on magazine articles, didn't help him either to win Joe's most important contest. Mentzer was a great bodybuilder and a brilliant intellectual, but he was a social retard.
Agreed, except that I'm not sure that their personas had much to do with it-Schwarzenegger was going to win as long as it was close, period. I give Mentzer credit for standing up to him however Weider and others had already decided the outcome as long as Schwarzenegger was in reasonable shape.
Unfortunately for you i see things very clearly, which is why you're now forced to agree with my pithy analysis of other BBs of the era.
Then be bothered by the now almost completely forgotten fact that Robinson was never allowed to win, nor Padilla or Fox. Stop obsessing on Mentzer who was very good but not quite great you whiny little homo groupie. ;)
Get a brain dipshit and realise we're talking about MM here, and his '80 Mr O victory
Tear yourself away from your Mentzer posters long enough to finally accept that he was never as good as you thought; in reality he was only in the top 4-5 guys in the world at the time, hardly the dominator your fantasies suggest. ;D
Too bad "golden" can't get his simply BB facts straight. hahahahahaha
LOL@simply. Too bad your myopic vision sees inferior BBers like skinny Zane and chickenlegged Arnold as being superior, hahahaha!
Don't worry about Pumpster. He's a fanatic who hates Dorian Yates and anything associated with him. Mentzer coached Dorian; ergo, Pumpster hates him.
SUCKMYMUSCLE
Don't worry about Pumpster. He's a fanatic who hates Dorian Yates and anything associated with him. Mentzer coached Dorian; ergo, Pumpster hates him.SUCKY's reknowned for faulty logic-one has nothing to do with the other, so that's an interesting jump in logic once again. ;D
Thanks, that explains Pumpster's mind-bogglingly deficient contest insight. That kid should NEVER judge any contest, ever!Let's rely on "golden" the Mentzer guy he's not at all biased in his worshipping! hahahahaahahah
Pumpster's reknowned for faulty logic-one has nothing to do with the other, so that's an interesting jump in logic once again. ;D
Let's rely on "Pumpster" the Mentzer nuthater/closet fag - he's not at all biased in his worshipping! ::) hahahahaahahah
Let's watch "golden showers" prove once again that he absolutely, positively must have the last word..only confirms that we have a Mentzer freak bereft of objectivity. Boring too, unless I help him dodder along as i've been doing. :P
Golden Showers just can't resist, has kneepads out and ready for more on Mentzer, who was always very good but never great.
SUCKY's reknowned for faulty logic-one has nothing to do with the other, so that's an interesting jump in logic once again. ;D
Let's rely on "golden" the Mentzer guy he's not at all biased in his worshipping! hahahahaahahah
"Faulty logic"? How about you saying that Dorian only won the Olympia due to politics? This despite the fact that Dorian is both British and White. From a PR perspective, you can't go more wrong than "choosing" a White Ango-Saxon - from Britain, another country! - to represent your sport; it is far more politically correct to "choose" a Black national.SUCKY's cognitive difficulties embarassingly on display once again-I never said his fortune was entirely due to politics, dumbass. Anyone with a brain bigger than Golden Shower the Mentzer ball washer or SUCKY can figure out that politics has played significant roles in contests INCLUDING the 1980 Olympia - in fact, ask Golden Shower about this SUCKY you stupid moron! In future I may have to tell him when it's ok to comment. ::)
SUCKY's cognitive difficulties embarassingly on display once again-I never said his fortune was entirely due to politics, dumbass. Anyone with a brain bigger than Golden Shower the Mentzer ball washer or SUCKY can figure out that politics has played significant roles in contests INCLUDING the 1980 Olympia - in fact, ask Golden Shower about this SUCKY you stupid moron! In future I may have to tell him when it's ok to comment. ::)
Man the delusion just gets more and more intense-being black's an advantage? That even exceeds the way Golden perches proudly atop Mentzer's dick. haahahahahahaahahahahaha haahahah
SUCKY's cognitive difficulties embarassingly on display once again-I never said his fortune was entirely due to politics, dumbass. Anyone with a brain bigger than Golden Shower the Mentzer ball washer or SUCKY can figure out that politics has played significant roles in contests INCLUDING the 1980 Olympia - in fact, ask Golden Shower about this SUCKY you stupid moron! In future I may have to tell him when it's ok to comment. ::)
Man the delusion just gets more and more intense-being black's an advantage? That even exceeds the way Golden perches proudly atop Mentzer's dick. haahahahahahaahahahahaha haahahah
Supposedly it was the difference in training philisophies as well as personal dislikes. A little surprising if true-apparently Schwarzenegger got bent out of shape about Mentzer's training and how it discredited Arnold's approach, which seems more than a little small.Ya but just remember that Mentzer was a no=body back then.
Personally it would be easy to dislike Schwarzenegger with the arrogance, BS and non-stop need for an ever-present side-kick to whisper negatives about others to. There is just the slightest split-second's glimpse of Mentzer in Pumping Iron: being ignored while drinking a supplement at the Gold's Gym counter when Arnold comes in.
Mentzer was mad because Arnold entered the contest at the very last minute. The rules stated that all competitors must register 3 weeks prior to the contest - this rule was obviously waived for Arnold. You see Conan was supposed to start filming in 1981, however that date was brought forward unexpectedly. The first scenes were to be shot in August 1980. In addition, Universal, the films distributor was going to use thise footage as a promo along with it's Christmas release of Flash Gordon. All of a sudden, Arnold had to get big, and fast. The best way to get big - and to get attention doing so - was to attempt the unthinkable: to make a comeback! You see Arnold was scheduled to arrive in Sydney as a TV Commentator only - so you can imagine everyone's surpise when he registered to compete at the very last minute. Mentzer was pissed. Reg Park was also put in a precarious position as he was one of the judges and of course him and Arnold were very close. Paul Graham was the promoter of that event and him and Arnold were also very close - he is the big guy who pulls Arnold in and hugs him in the very beginning of the movie Pumping Iron. The argument between Arnold and Mike Mentzer was over the fact that Boyer Coe was instrumental in getting the IFBB rules changed for the 1980 Olympia so that instead of a winner being chosen from the best of two weight classes he would emerge from six all-comer finalists. Arnold was the only one who objected to this. Arnold wanted only two weight classes, that way there is only one man to beat. Mentzer got pissed and told Arnold that he was acting like a baby and Arnold said to Mike, " If your belly wasn't as big as your mouth, then maybe you would have a chance at this event". Mike then jumped up and got in Arnold's face and Arnold just sat cooly and laughed it off...Classic example of mental psyche-out which Arnold was famous for since it almost always worked. Needless to say, Mentzer was not a threat to Arnold's throne as Mike ended up third, behind Chris Dickerson. If anyone had a chance to beat Arnold it was Chris and not Mike.You got the Pauls mixed up, that was Grant.
I'm not the one rhapsodizing about a very good but over-hyped Mentzer. Feel free to get off those kneepads after your latest shower you fag.
what i find interesting re mentzer:
he was very unorthodox with his training contrasting the dogma of the time. Perhaps not quite as much as he later (post retirement) prescribed, but unorthodox at the time.
this included his nutrition.
I remember reading excerpts from his daily diary eg a cantaloup for breakfast and such. he'd have been lucky to get 50 grms of protein a day.
the guy was fearless, but he sure as hell backed it up on stage. he had alot of dense muscle and he was SHREDDED.
standing next to guys that were alot more excessive about training and eating he very much held his own in the muscle mass dept.
i know that mentzer was taking gear like everyone else but, hell, aren't ya supposed to take in more protein with gear???
very interesting. there should be more mentzers in the world. challenge everything. if it's written in stone, all the more reason to challenge it.
R.I.P the great Mike Mentzer
yep, that's my point. anabolics are SUPPOSED to help you assimilate and synthesize higher intakes of protein.
this is anabolics 101.
In actual fact, naturals need far less protein.
i honestly don't know the nutritional requirements of the contemporary drug assisted bodybuilder (has there actually been any non-weider influenced/funded research on this subject?)
we've all had too much weider bullshit forced down our throats for too many years, but mentzer had the courage to challenge the protocol which is probably his most significant achievement.
weider has committed the greatest fraud ever in the fitness industry. he has sold his bullshit philosophy (building a billion dollar industry) since the 40's and propped up his heavily juiced bodybuilders as proof of it's efficiency, when in fact the real truth lied in pharmacology.
For better or worse, Arnold won the competition and Mike couldnt deal with that. Essentially it destroyed his career as a competitive bodybuilderCan't blame him for being upset, but after seeing Robinson denied more than once he should've been a little more realistic about the politics that are part of such a commercial enterprise as the IFBB and Weider. Of course 5th place seems absurd but if you don't win who cares anyway?
Except that there was already long-term animus between them that produced tension and a confrontation at the contest, plus the impression that it was fixed with the late entry of Schwarzenegger.
Can't blame Mentzer at all for disliking Schwarzenegger who was clearly both annoying and surrounded by a coterie of Gold's yes-men. Too bad he couldn't see that this Arnold nonsense was a one-year thing, which left the field wide-open in subsequent years. With a little patience he'd have been rewarded by sticking around.
Perhaps he would have been rewarded but it all depends. Dickerson got his due but guys like Danny P justifiably got tired of the bs and packed it up too.which was sad don't blame him though. The giant killer was great to see. us shorter guys love the shorter guys.
which was sad don't blame him though. The giant killer was great to see. us shorter guys love the shorter guys.