Getbig Bodybuilding, Figure and Fitness Forums
Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Training Q&A => Topic started by: Slick Vic on June 26, 2006, 05:48:05 AM
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???
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i think it is. ive been doing it for 18 months now, and the results are great!
I'm stronger and bigger than i've ever been and i'm still progressing (only slowly, but steady though)
I think if you're an experienced lifter(at least 3 years) this is really a great program to follow.
A lot of info on training/diet is to be found on intensemuscle.com -> DOGGpound.
If you've got any question i can answer from own experience, let me know.
Hope this helps.
Peace
D
P.S. Lets try to keep this positive, no need for bashing the program if you haven't tried it.
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ok quick question, for a typical day of working out what do you think the total time in the gym is using this program?
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Bring negative comments as well, why not.
But base it on experience. Not through viewing others.
YIP
Zack
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It did nothing for me. I have kept the 'rest ten then go again' in my routine though!
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I tried it for about 3 months...it worked alright i guess but i personally didn't like it. i prefer Max-OT over DC any day.
8)
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that program relies too much on the Smith Machine for me, i've always gotten better results from more volume and free weights.
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I tried it for about 3 months...it worked alright i guess but i personally didn't like it. i prefer Max-OT over DC any day.
8)
absolutely.... I think DC is awesome for AAS users though
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A typical training last about an hour or so, depending if you keep the pace up, which is pretty hard on leg day
BTW Sarcasm, DC training does not rely on (smith)machine exercises, but is sometimes recommended for safety reasons when training alone, because everything is taken to failure.
Peace
D
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A typical training last about an hour or so, depending if you keep the pace up, which is pretty hard on leg day
BTW Sarcasm, DC training does not rely on (smith)machine exercises, but is sometimes recommended for safety reasons when training alone, because everything is taken to failure.
Peace
D
from what i understood from reading about the program is that all those guys do their pressing movements on the Smith so they can do the rest pause safely.
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Thats because they are pussies! Image the results you will get if you use free weights and keep progressing on those weights from workout to workout!
i officially declare that anyone who does DC Training is a p.ussy.
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I have heard of it but have no idea what exercises are done..anyone recommend where I can do some homework?
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i officially declare that anyone who does DC Training is a p.ussy.
isn't that what you call everyone who doesn't do DC training? ;D
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I have heard of it but have no idea what exercises are done..anyone recommend where I can do some homework?
Right here at www.intensemuscle.com
Then go to DOGG POUND.
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i use it from time to time when i hit a plateau. i like the program a lot, but it takes an experienced lifter to get the most out of it. i also have no problems with the smith machine i think people are just too conscious about their image that they avoid the smith. it is a great piece of equipment with some huge advantages ( and disadvantages too ofcourse, but nothing is perfect).
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I think this program is very effective if you follow it the right way. I'm in the middle of a blast right now and it's pretty awsome to see the poundages keep going up and up. I'm using mostly free weights right now since I have access to some pretty heavy dumbbells but by the time my blast is done I think I'll have to aske them to buy some heavier ones...dumbbells are a little harder to use because of the short rest-pauses and getting them back into position in time is a bitch but it can be done.
You can use the smith and alot of people do, it's practical especially if you work out alone, there is nothing wrong with using this peice of equipment..remember the saying "the ends justify the means" doesn't matter to me if I use a smith or not, as long as I"m progressing. Really does it matter...it's not like I'm going walk around the mall with a shirt on that says "yeah, I'm pretty big but I use a smith machine so I guess I'm really not"..
max ot is ok but it fucked up my joints, DC allows me to get in and out of the gym in a little under an hour and I move some pretty heavy weight so I get alot of time to recover..well the weight is heavy for me and I think if I went anymore than 3 times a week I'd overtrain on this program.
i officially declare that anyone who does DC Training is a p.ussy.
I officially declare someone that only comes on the internet to put other people down and has nothing positive to add to any conversation and has never bothered to post a pic or anything after bragging like a mother fucker a complete pussy.
i use it from time to time when i hit a plateau. i like the program a lot, but it takes an experienced lifter to get the most out of it. i also have no problems with the smith machine i think people are just too conscious about their image that they avoid the smith. it is a great piece of equipment with some huge advantages ( and disadvantages too ofcourse, but nothing is perfect).
excactly...I'd rather do a pressing movement where I can set the stops and go to failure with some heavy ass weight than try doing it free weight with no spotter. Sometimes I can get one sometimes I can't, sometimes I workout at a rec center and all I have is old dudes and skinny ass teenagers and if you think for a second that I'm gonna trust one of them to spot me you're nuts. I'd rather go into the gym and not have to worry about it.
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http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?s=590e9c846b6a8292143ef3777331ee72&t=16023
here is the link that has the creator of DC talking about it.
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Max-Ot can be bad for your joints if you don't warm up correctly and don't do the assimilation sets. the whole point of Max-ot is to get in and out quickly and most of the workouts are 30-45 minutes if you do it right. one of the best protocols i've ever used prior to getting into powerlifting.
8)
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Max-Ot can be bad for your joints if you don't warm up correctly and don't do the assimilation sets. the whole point of Max-ot is to get in and out quickly and most of the workouts are 30-45 minutes if you do it right. one of the best protocols i've ever used prior to getting into powerlifting.
8)
max OT is a good program. It's very well thought out and you can get pretty damn strong using it. I used it for about a year. I liked it. The problem I had with it was I could not get to the gym 5 days in a row. By about day 3 I was burnt. I made some huge poundage gains. My elbow started to hurt bad. I eventually worked through it. For the sake or time and trying something new I tried DC and I really liked it. I did it hardcore from the begining of July to md August of 2004 and went from 193 to about 211. I lived to eat protien and got strong as hell. I actually ignored the cardio aspect of it so my gut got a little bit bigger. I'm training really heavy now using DC and I could not be happier. I can go about 3 weeks all out and then have to back off for about a week and go again. I know it's not excactly the length of the recommended blast but this is what I'm finding works for me. This is my first "real" blast since 2004 so it's pretty fun.
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Somebody make this sub board permanent and let's get on with the training!!! DC training is more popular than ever and I don't care if it's a fad or not cause from what I can tell it's the shit.
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here's what I did yesterday:
Dumbbell Curl-65*11 RP
Hammer Curl-Left arm 60*22 RP
Right arm 60*24 RP I did these one arm at a time.
Toe Press on a Leg Press-425*12
Then after about 20 seconds I pumped out 30 partials, really small range of motion-not really a DC technique for calves but I started fooling around with this concept a few months ago and I love it so I'm doing it.
Leg Press-825*10
405*21
Sumo Leg Press-415*12
I did a 20-30 second static on everything except calves and an extreme stretch on Bi's, quads and hamstrings. Overall it was a pretty good workout. I don't really like the leg press I had to use but I worked out at the local rec center and I had to use it. it just does not feel right to me. I did the hammers one arm at a time...I've been doing them like this for a couple of weeks and like it better than alternating. I also switched my foot placement on my 20 repper on the leg press...I took a pretty narrow placement, trying to emphasize the outer quads and teardrop.
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Hey, here's what I did today...
flat dumbbell press-120*14 RP
seated DB press-90*15 RP
machine dip-220*17
Front pulldown-210*18
t-bar-190*4
135*10
I had more problems getting the dB's into position for the DB pressing movements-no spotter. Stretches after every movement, statics when I could do them. The powerhouse I go to only goes up to the 130's so I'll outgrow them soon enough....
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i officially declare that anyone who does DC Training is a p.ussy.
David Henry does DC training
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Why are you doing two sets for you t-bar rows?? LOL looks like I know more than you about DC ;D
Go read this: http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?s=9f3df9f98734bae17c21b811eaffe4ff&t=16023
actually if you want to believe you know more than me go ahead. My original thickness workout was one set of 20, heaviest weight I could handle. I posted this on intense muscle and got numerous responses that I might want to give this method a try. 1 superheavy set of about 4-6 reps and then 1 set at about 8-12, I posted this about 2 months ago but I think even Dante responded and said to give it a try so I did. I think this method works better. There are lots of aspects to DC training, it's not a cookie cutter routine and if it was I would never follow it, you have to be able or willing to try new things. Right now I'm at a gym with equipment I have not had access to in years so I've worked them into my current blast to see what happens. I used to do rack deads but I have alot of trouble with my lower back so I'm trying hammer rows, if they don't work it's not a big deal to cycle back in rack deads, I just get to give my low back a rest. Another example might be the dumbbell presses that I'm doing for chest, I have not had DB's over 100lbs in about a year and a half...I'm not thrilled at the db's that they have 110,120 and 130 but I'm excited to give these a try for a blast. I would rather have the poundages increase by 5 so the ideal situation is 110, 115, 120, 125 etc. I'm having a little trouble making a 10 pound jump but what the hell, I enjoy the challenge.
I'm kinda doing the same thing for legs using the widowmaker set for the first time....
I don't think there are 2 guys doing the exact same routine as far as sets, reps, excersises etc. You kinda take the guide lines and run with it, when I've had problems I'll post a question over at IM and you usually can get good advice.
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I just checked your link out alexxx, I wouldn't take the IM interview as the be all end all. Get your hands on the old Dog Logg if you can..you might have a hard time finding it but it's golden if you can get it.
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Ok I see what you are doing. Do what works. Right now instead of switching my my days I always keep chest,shoulder,tri,back workouts on monday/friday and legs on wednesday. My legs are overpowering thats why I am working my upperbody double time.
again, do what works..I wouldn't recommend what you're doing but hey, only you know what's best for you. Too bad you're banned over at IM, I'd like to see some of thier feedback about this split, I guess I'd have to see pics of you're "overpowering" legs to make a suggestion...always remember you can never have calfs that are too big so maybe cycle out a strong bodypart and cycle in your calves so you could do:
day 1-chest, shoulders, tri's, back
day 2-bi's, forearms, quads, hams and calves
day 3 same as day one
day 4-chest, shoulders, calfs, back
day 5, bi's forearms, tri's quads and hams
day 6-chest, shoulders, calfs and back
again, I don't recommend this but if you have your mind set I'd do something like this....unless you're calves are outstanding.
This is real wierd, I've never heard of anyone doing this type of split.....I don't like it...don't like it at all...are you sure you wanna set up you're routine like this? It's not making sense to me, I'm not saying they are not but I don't remember your legs being that good where you could skip em like you want to. I would rethink this strategy if I were you.
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I have no problem at all with you doing 2 sets on t-bars Natural Al....I have alot of trainees i do the same thing with on all back thickness movements. Heck i have some guys do 10 reps and then 15 reps on their second set....its just kind of an individualistic thing and when something isnt done with rest pauses I usually just give the guy the choice to do 2 sets of different reps
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I have no problem at all with you doing 2 sets on t-bars Natural Al....I have alot of trainees i do the same thing with on all back thickness movements. Heck i have some guys do 10 reps and then 15 reps on their second set....its just kind of an individualistic thing and when something isnt done with rest pauses I usually just give the guy the choice to do 2 sets of different reps
I would like to think that programs give you some breathing room, I always see guys writing "that's not DC" in discussion groups and the simple fact is that I don't think you'd loose your mind if someone did something a little out of the norm and got results from it. Like I said earlier if my current leg or back workouts don't work for me then I'll just go back to what I was doing before which I think still falls within the realm of DC. 20 reps on quads and back thickness is a killer but I got results....there's no way I'm gonna say "well 20 reppers arent DC so I'm not doing them" and sit in a rut when I could be getting better.
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why would your biceps get bigger if you train them twice a week
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Sounds like Dog Crap ::)
so does your post, slick.
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so does your post, slick.
??? ??? ??? ???
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Hey guys, havnt really read all this post but am i right in thinking that DC is sinilar to HIT in that u perform one set, although it is a rest pause set????
davie
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You never fail to entertain me alexx. i read on site that u perform 1 rest pause set. i came to u apparent ' super' experienced lifters for clarification and education, not attempts at humour that should have been better thought out if they were to be hard hitting and not complete failures.
davie
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You never fail to entertain me alexx. i read on site that u perform 1 rest pause set. i came to u apparent ' super' experienced lifters for clarification and education, not attempts at humour that should have been better thought out if they were to be hard hitting and not complete failures.
davie
Davie please read this: http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?s=9f3df9f98734bae17c21b811eaffe4ff&t=16023
Should answer all of your questions. If something is not clarified then don't hesitate to ask.
Alexxx
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So if me and training partner wer giving this a shot as a change from our usual workouts. I could go with something like this:
MONDAY=chest, shoulders, triceps, back width, back thickness
Incline DB (11-15rp)
Military press (11-20rp-though i think clean and press would be awesome if done DC style,that would burn so might do that).
Closegrip pulldowns (11-15rp)
deadlifts straight sets (6-9reps) + (9-12reps).
close grip bench presses (11-20rp)
WEDNESDAY=biceps, forearms, calves, hamstrings, quads
free squats (6-10 rep straight set) 3-5 minute rest and then (20 rep widowmaker)
seated leg curls (15-30rp)
barbell curls (11-20rp)
hammer curls (straight set 10-20 reps)
FRIDAY=chest, shoulders, triceps, back width, back thickness
Flat DB press (11-15rp)
Lat raise done DC style (11-20rp)
front pulldowns (11-15rp)
T-bar rows straight set (10-12 reps)
Dips (11-20rp)
FOLLOWING MONDAY=biceps, forearms, calves, hamstrings, quads
HAck squat/front squat (6-10 rep straight set) 3-5 minute rest and then (20 rep widowmaker)
SLDL (15-30rp)
dumbell curls (11-20rp)
AND SO ON........Is it ok that i have made up two slightly different routines, i thought that would be ok as the article said choose from the exercises????
Couple of questions....1.do u think that is enough volume for legs,biggest muscles in body and its gettin 2 straight sets done either once or twice a week??
2.Also do u think it would be ok as i mentioned above about doing clean & press, that exercise just asks to be done RP style lol?
3.I was wandering when u all decided to up the weight, if i was for example doing fron pulldowns (11-15rp) and failed at 8 on 1 set, then stopped, then failed again after 4 more reps, then stopped then failed again after 3 more....i would have reached my 15 rep target in 3 attempts. Should i go by the logic that if i reach my rep target in 3 or less attempts then i should up the weight????And if it had taken me four or more attempts to get to 15 then i would stick with same weight next time?!
Im sorry for what will seem daft questions to those of u who are established with this routine, but these are question the article didnt answer and i wanted to clarify before deciding wether to start or not!!
davie
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So if me and training partner wer giving this a shot as a change from our usual workouts. I could go with something like this:
MONDAY=chest, shoulders, triceps, back width, back thickness
Incline DB (11-15rp)
Military press (11-20rp-though i think clean and press would be awesome if done DC style,that would burn so might do that).
Closegrip pulldowns (11-15rp)
deadlifts straight sets (6-9reps) + (9-12reps).
close grip bench presses (11-20rp)
WEDNESDAY=biceps, forearms, calves, hamstrings, quads
free squats (6-10 rep straight set) 3-5 minute rest and then (20 rep widowmaker)
seated leg curls (15-30rp)
barbell curls (11-20rp)
hammer curls (straight set 10-20 reps)
FRIDAY=chest, shoulders, triceps, back width, back thickness
Flat DB press (11-15rp)
Lat raise done DC style (11-20rp)
front pulldowns (11-15rp)
T-bar rows straight set (10-12 reps)
Dips (11-20rp)
FOLLOWING MONDAY=biceps, forearms, calves, hamstrings, quads
HAck squat/front squat (6-10 rep straight set) 3-5 minute rest and then (20 rep widowmaker)
SLDL (15-30rp)
dumbell curls (11-20rp)
AND SO ON........Is it ok that i have made up two slightly different routines, i thought that would be ok as the article said choose from the exercises????
Couple of questions....1.do u think that is enough volume for legs,biggest muscles in body and its gettin 2 straight sets done either once or twice a week??
2.Also do u think it would be ok as i mentioned above about doing clean & press, that exercise just asks to be done RP style lol?
3.I was wandering when u all decided to up the weight, if i was for example doing fron pulldowns (11-15rp) and failed at 8 on 1 set, then stopped, then failed again after 4 more reps, then stopped then failed again after 3 more....i would have reached my 15 rep target in 3 attempts. Should i go by the logic that if i reach my rep target in 3 or less attempts then i should up the weight????And if it had taken me four or more attempts to get to 15 then i would stick with same weight next time?!
Im sorry for what will seem daft questions to those of u who are established with this routine, but these are question the article didnt answer and i wanted to clarify before deciding wether to start or not!!
davie
your program is close and I think you get it for the most part. Day one, if you want to be a stickler change the close grips to the 3rd movement so you hit chest, shoulders, tri's and then your back movements. I'd also consider not doing DB movements, I'm doing them right now and I have a hard time getting the weights back into position, I train alone so that might not be an issue for you if you have a partner. I've done the clean and press but my back is shot so I dropped them, I don't see any reason why you could not use them. Day 2, again watch the order...I go bi's, forearms, calfs, quads and then hamstrings..you might be a little burnt if you do quads first. Calfs are done differently than other bodyparts, I'll go into them if you want. Day 3 is ok but I'd watch the lateral raises, remember you're trying to beat the logbook everytime so eventually your from will go out the window, it won't hurt to try them but just be careful...I tend to stick to pressing movements, I've tried lateral raises but my form went to shit after a few weeks. Day 4, again watch your excercise order, try to keep things in the same order...I don't see anything for calves.
as far as your volume question goes...it's tricky to explain. Doing one superheavy set for quads followed by a widowmaker does not sound like alot but if you use max weight for both it's a killer. I'm leg pressing 855 for 6 reps and doing a 25 rep widowmaker almost immediatly after..next workout I'm going to do 875 for as many as possible and my WM weight will go up by 10lbs plus a static and a stretch. It's a killer. You have to be able to go to failure, not just to where you want to stop but go to the point where if you cannot do another rep, then do a static. I set the stops on the legpress and I go until I crash..it might be 4 reps it might be 8 but I know I left it all in the gym and next time I'm gonna beat that weight or rep total or I'll die trying.
Upping the wieghts-here's the rule of thumb that I use. Lets say I start a movement with 100lbs and the first day my RP is 12. The next time I do the movement I"ll shoot for 14 if I get it I'll go for 16-18 the next time, once I hit the 16-18 rep range the weight goes up, might only go up 5lbs but it will go up. It's progressive resistance pushed to the max, you're never allowing yourself to go backwards or stagnate.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
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Cheers buddy, that helps alot.
Explaining calves a bit better would help....ALSO iv never really 100% understood the static hold rule, i understand the extreme stretch (i think) but static holds????
QUOTE FROM NATURAL AL "Upping the wieghts-here's the rule of thumb that I use. Lets say I start a movement with 100lbs and the first day my RP is 12. The next time I do the movement I"ll shoot for 14 if I get it I'll go for 16-18 the next time, once I hit the 16-18 rep range the weight goes up, might only go up 5lbs but it will go up. It's progressive resistance pushed to the max, you're never allowing yourself to go backwards or stagnate."
When u say ur rest pause is 12 one week, 14 the next week etc, how many attempts did it take u to get to that rep of 12,14 etc????How many times have u had to stop and have 20 second break, or is that rep the 1st time u failed??
davie
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Cheers buddy, that helps alot.
Explaining calves a bit better would help....ALSO iv never really 100% understood the static hold rule, i understand the extreme stretch (i think) but static holds????
QUOTE FROM NATURAL AL "Upping the wieghts-here's the rule of thumb that I use. Lets say I start a movement with 100lbs and the first day my RP is 12. The next time I do the movement I"ll shoot for 14 if I get it I'll go for 16-18 the next time, once I hit the 16-18 rep range the weight goes up, might only go up 5lbs but it will go up. It's progressive resistance pushed to the max, you're never allowing yourself to go backwards or stagnate."
When u say ur rest pause is 12 one week, 14 the next week etc, how many attempts did it take u to get to that rep of 12,14 etc????How many times have u had to stop and have 20 second break, or is that rep the 1st time u failed??
davie
statics are done at the end. after you complete your last rep, rack the wieght and take a 10 second rest, unrack the weight and maybe go about 1/4 or so into the movement and hold for about 20-30 seconds or until you fail.
When i get 12 reps RP'd, that's the total number of reps I get after 3 RP's, it usually goes 7-3-2 or along those lines.
calves-start at the top of the movement, lower the weight slowly, about 5 seconds and hold in the stretched position for 15 seconds and then explode up..that's one rep..it's a killer if you do it right, use max weight and your calves will be screaming.
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davie, I think you should do the DC at least for three months from now.
Then tell us what you think of it, and decide if you want to continue with it.
YIP
Zack
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Kul kul natural al, think iv got all bases covered.
I get what u mean, it takes u 3 rp's to get to 12 reps. i think i will keep a weight the same until it takes me 3 rp's to get to 15 reps (might look like 8,4,3, and once i can get 15 reps in 3 rp's il up the weight which will probs result in me taking 4 rp's to get to 15 reps to begin with ).... or mayb even 18 like you urself do?!
calves sound sore, cant wait to try them lol.
If u think i need to know anything else,dont hesitate to let me know!!
davie
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Kul kul natural al, think iv got all bases covered.
I get what u mean, it takes u 3 rp's to get to 12 reps. i think i will keep a weight the same until it takes me 3 rp's to get to 15 reps (might look like 8,4,3, and once i can get 15 reps in 3 rp's il up the weight which will probs result in me taking 4 rp's to get to 15 reps to begin with ).... or mayb even 18 like you urself do?!
calves sound sore, cant wait to try them lol.
If u think i need to know anything else,dont hesitate to let me know!!
davie
once you up the wieght it's ok to go back to 12 reps RP...you don't have to keep getting 15 or 18 as long as you beat the logbook in either weight or reps everything is cool. Always go for 3 rest pause sets.
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OK kul chers mate....so after i up the weight, instead of doing 4 rp's and getting 15 reps, i should still only do 3 rp's and shhot for about 12 reps, then next time shoot for 13 or 14 reps, and keep trying to beat my past log book until i get 15 again in 3 rp's?!
davie
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bingo. Always 3 rest pause sets the weight you start with should let you get about 12-15 reps but when you get to a point where the reps are getting to high, like 18-20 you up the weight. This doesn't mean you stop at 12 but that should be the lowest rep total you allow yourself otherwise it's too heavy. Some guys like a higher rep range so you can fool around with that on some bodyparts...I keep my forearm work at 20-30 reps everything else falls into the 12-15 rep range. There is some growing pains so take the time to learn the program and learn your body, not everything is set in stone, nothing is cookie cutter about this program. Right now I'm trying to work with dumbbells in my program and It's not working as well as I would like, I'm moving some heavy iron but my reps are off and I have a really hard time getting the weight into position for the 2nd and 3rd RP...I'm pretty sure I'm going to drop them, I'd rather train the muscle than worry about getting everything right for the set. It's a learning process, I was overly excited to work with the dumbbells since I have not had them for awhile, once I saw them I had to hit em, I'm using the 120's and they are awkward as hell so they're gone as of Monday, I learned as I went which is all any of us can do. My first set usually went really well, 8-10 reps, 2nd set, if I could get the weight in place I could get 3-4 and I only got the 3rd set done a couple of time cause I just couldn't get the weight up and into position, the extra work required was wearing me out so bye-bye.
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Well just started yesterday..jumped in and replaced our Leg day with the DC leg day....Loved the feeling. I would like more info on results from the stretch piece and some advice on the two week cruise or coast phase. I have not heard anybody mention either as far as results or a good routine to use on the cruise phase. Also when do u guys think it best to stretch..at the end of the workout or between sets. I'm on day 1 today..chest etc so i plan to do the stretches at the end.
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stretching can be done either between sets or at the end of the workout, personally I do them between sets but I've heard Dante say that it can be done either or-I'm pretty sure he's said this so if I'm wrong, I'm sorry.
A cruise phase is done once you find yourself burning out either mentally or physically. There is no set routine for a cruise, you might do movements you want to try out, you might just keep the routine the same but do straight sets, you might do high reps...it's your call.
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Well figured i'd post since we are 3 1/2 weeks in. Progress has been steady. The hard part of the workout is figuring the weights to start with. You definitly have to drop ur working weight to get out all the reps. Once thats down u sorta enjoy the pain. I love the leg day the best. We are limited on some of the exercises we can do over here so it takes us along time to get through a workout but as we have progressed we have cut the time down. I plan to go six weeks and cruise for two. 1 week of high reps ..triple drops/pre exhaust work and then a max rep week to see where I am. I think it works pretty well especially if your current program has stagnated.
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Well figured i'd post since we are 3 1/2 weeks in. Progress has been steady. The hard part of the workout is figuring the weights to start with. You definitly have to drop ur working weight to get out all the reps. Once thats down u sorta enjoy the pain. I love the leg day the best. We are limited on some of the exercises we can do over here so it takes us along time to get through a workout but as we have progressed we have cut the time down. I plan to go six weeks and cruise for two. 1 week of high reps ..triple drops/pre exhaust work and then a max rep week to see where I am. I think it works pretty well especially if your current program has stagnated.
post your dc workout...I'd take it easy on the cruise and wouldn't say I'm gonna blast for 6 weeks, blast until you start to overtrain or your poundages start to drop.
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I will post Monday.. i took it right from what seemed to be the base program that was printed here and on the site. I have noticed constant gains and alot of my nagging injuries have gone away due to th 3 rest days. I still think we may be doing some things wrong. We do day one on monday and repeat on friday then start day 2 on the next monday and repeat day 2 on friday and so on so every workout gets repeated twice in one week atleast once?
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It works, but you have to get the nutrition part of it right too. I've just finished my third week and I'm up 5 pounds in weight at a lower bodyfat%. Shoulders, tris, back and quads in particular are much bigger.
No matter what the program, nutrition is a much bigger part of the equation. What I have done, as suggested by Dante, was also increase my protein intake substantially.
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the time I made my best gains on this program were when I just ate protien, protien, protien. Tons of it, I pretty much lived to eat protien. I bought these pre-cooked chicken breasts and hamburger patties and I'd bring those to work with me, whey protien shakes, lunchmeat, cheese, eggs, yogurt& cottage cheese and if I even thought that my protien intake was a little low I'd down a couple of double cheese burgers-no buns. I went from 194-211ish in a very short time. I'm upping my protien again but with a little less abandon this time. I'm also doing morning cardio so it'll be interesting to see what happens.
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I'm doing about 120 grams in shakes and another 130 or so in real food. I'm deployed so sometimes its hard to get clean food. They fry everything. But I have started to eat fish which i hate. I'm not worried about BF%. I hover around 12% at 215-220 at 5'9. I got to 10% last fall but its not my thing. As long as I have abs. At this point week four I'm up 4 real pounds and back to 220. If I can stay at 12% and get up to 225-230 that would be great. Its been a struggle to gain lean mass for the last 6 months or so. Thats why I went with this. I think I was burnt out on my basic program. I'm only on Creatine. I'll post my workout tommorrow
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I'm doing about 120 grams in shakes and another 130 or so in real food. I'm deployed so sometimes its hard to get clean food. They fry everything. But I have started to eat fish which i hate. I'm not worried about BF%. I hover around 12% at 215-220 at 5'9. I got to 10% last fall but its not my thing. As long as I have abs. At this point week four I'm up 4 real pounds and back to 220. If I can stay at 12% and get up to 225-230 that would be great. Its been a struggle to gain lean mass for the last 6 months or so. Thats why I went with this. I think I was burnt out on my basic program. I'm only on Creatine. I'll post my workout tommorrow
get your protien however you can. I don't personally care if it's from shakes or real food, I'm not an expert or anything but that's how I feel. I'd make sure I did my cardio just to be safe, if you start to slow down in the gains or loose power, cut the cardio down but I'd do some cardio regardless. I'd also try to cycle in some green tea, helps keep the metabolism kicking.
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I hate cardio.......OK here's our current program. I don't think i missed anything but we do what we can based on tim and equipment. If we can't get on a piece of equipment..especially after doing the major mass builder for that body part we do a widow maker. I was experiencing alot of forearm and and elbow pain with my base program but not with this.
incline smythe press (11-15rp)
hammer strength press (11-15rp)
decline barbell press (11-15rp)
Backwidth:
close grip pulldowns (11-15rp)front pulldowns (11-15rp)
Backthickness:
deadlifts straight sets (6-9reps) + (9-12reps)
T-bar rows straight set (10-12 reps)
rack deadlifts (6-9reps) + (9-12reps)
Shoulders:
military presses (11-20rp)
hammer strength presses (11-15rp)
upright rows (11-20rp)
Quads:
free squats (6-10 rep straight set) 3-5 minute rest and then (20 rep widowmaker)
hack squats (as above)
leg press (as above)
Hamstrings:
seated leg curls (15-30rp)
sumo press leg press (pressing with heels only- straight set of 15-25 reps)
Biceps:
preacher curls (11-20rp)
dumbell curls (11-20rp)
Forearms:
pinwheel curls (straight set 10-20 reps)
hammer curls (straight set 10-20 reps)
reverse grip one arm cable curls (straight set 10-20 reps)
Triceps:
reverse grip bench presses (11-20rp)
close grip bench presses (11-20rp)
EZ bar tricep extentions (15-30rp)
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looks fine except you really need 3 movements to rotate. On back try adding reverse grip pulldowns for your 3rd movement, bi's I'm sure you can come up with something. Other than that I'd say it's fine.
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Last week we added bent rows and rotate with the hammer strength pulldowns. I don't like going heavy on the hammer because i feel it more then jerking it around. Thanks for all the help.
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Last week we added bent rows and rotate with the hammer strength pulldowns. I don't like going heavy on the hammer because i feel it more then jerking it around. Thanks for all the help.
just go a little lighter, the weight will come up in time, don't put to much thought into how much you lift initially, just worry about beating your old totals.
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We're on our first cruise week. The plan is to max this week and then do drops and higher reps next week. I hit chest yesterday and my max is back up to 335. Tried 365 but missed. This program works. Not sure why it takes so much heat.
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We're on our first cruise week. The plan is to max this week and then do drops and higher reps next week. I hit chest yesterday and my max is back up to 335. Tried 365 but missed. This program works. Not sure why it takes so much heat.
Due to the fact it works.
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I think this workout scares people. High weight..high reps...long workout multiple body parts and the fact that they might have to significantly drop weight at first. It hurts the ego..but after blowing through all my maxes this week .....I'm convinced.
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I'm only one workout in, but already I'm enjoying it. Haven't really started to get in-depth with the diet and cardio, just basically eating the way I've always eaten for mass and adding 2-3 40-minute sessions a week to start. Tomorrow afternoon is day two, and I'm curious to see how my quads will respond having done calves and hamstrings first.
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I'm up 10lbs since starting my last blast, beating all my old totals and having alot of fun in the gym.
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I figured this would be a good area to post how my first DC workout went, as well as some current pictures to let everyone see what I'm working with. I have nothing to hide, tear the pics apart all you want. At least they're real, unlike a lot of people on this board.
Anyway, here's the first workout with weights and reps:
Chest:
Hammer-Strength Incline Press - 90x15, 140x8 (warmup sets), 180 x8,4,1=13
Shoulders:
Smith-Machine Military Press - 45x15, 95x10 (warmup sets), 145x6-3-2=11
A note on the Smith-Machine - I have no idea how much the bar weighs, I just track the weights as though it was an Olympic bar. I know it weighs less, but it's easier for me to keep track of this way.
Triceps:
Close-Grip Bench Press - 45x15, 95x10 (warmup sets), 115x13 (straight set, no rest-pause)
Back:
Hammer-Strength High Row - 90x10, 180x8 (warmup sets), 230x6-3-3=12 and a static hold for 10 deep breaths
Underhand BB Rows - 115x10 (warmup), 155x10
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are you doing static holds and stretching? Routine looks good for the first day. Don't be afraid to RP tri work, straight sets are fine to start off with but there is no problem rping tri's.
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I would do rest-pause for triceps but I didnt' have a spotter for close-grip bench, and I'm not sure how safe that would be to do it without one. Anything else, skullcrushers/dips/pressdowns/etc, I will implement rest-pause.
I'm doing extreme stretching for at least 60 seconds for each bodypart, usually between every few bodyparts - i.e. after chest/shoulders/tris, then again after back. Static holds I really haven't gotten into yet, for the most part.
Anyway, here's how today's workout went, including warm-up sets:
Biceps:
Dumbbell Curls - 25x15, 35x6, 45x8-4-2=14
Forearms:
Hammer Curls - 45x11
Calves:
Leg Press Toe Raises - 270x10 quick reps, 340x5 (need to drop the weight way down for these, but did the 5-sec descent and 10-15 second stretch at the bottom for 5 reps)
Hamstrings:
Cybex Seated Leg Curls - 30x25, 50x30 (no rest-pause)
Quads:
Squats - 95x10, 135x6, 165x8, 95x20
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Just started my second six week DC phase. I hope top crack 315 on the incline for a full set of reps..legs to low 400lbs etc. This works.. takes time but each work out u will see improvement.
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As a side note, holy hell are my legs still sore three days after I worked them. I did them on Sunday, and my quads are still sorer with 2 sets of squats then they were with a 10-12 set workout. I like it. I can see the benefits of reduced volume, as far as all-out effort on work sets.
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I would do rest-pause for triceps but I didnt' have a spotter for close-grip bench, and I'm not sure how safe that would be to do it without one. Anything else, skullcrushers/dips/pressdowns/etc, I will implement rest-pause.
I'm doing extreme stretching for at least 60 seconds for each bodypart, usually between every few bodyparts - i.e. after chest/shoulders/tris, then again after back. Static holds I really haven't gotten into yet, for the most part.
Anyway, here's how today's workout went, including warm-up sets:
Biceps:
Dumbbell Curls - 25x15, 35x6, 45x8-4-2=14
Forearms:
Hammer Curls - 45x11
Calves:
Leg Press Toe Raises - 270x10 quick reps, 340x5 (need to drop the weight way down for these, but did the 5-sec descent and 10-15 second stretch at the bottom for 5 reps)
Hamstrings:
Cybex Seated Leg Curls - 30x25, 50x30 (no rest-pause)
Quads:
Squats - 95x10, 135x6, 165x8, 95x20
the only thing I would tweak in this routine is the calf part. Drop the weight and do a set of at least 12-15 reps in the DC fashion. If you feel the need to do the quick reps do them afterwards, in a partials style of movement and go for about 30 reps. This isn't really a DC thing but I did these for along time and my calfs grew like crazy using this technique. When you're only getting 5 reps you're not gonna be able to keep improveing on that movement enough. I'd also think about doing 1 set of 20 reps for squats, keep trying to up the weight until you can't get 20 then as the weight goes up your reps will come down. When you get to a weight you can only handle for 6-8 reps then throw in a 2nd set of widowmakers.
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Nat..On the widow maker I have been increasing the weight on that as well. If i squat 390 (current weight) and then do 250 for 20 reps...I'm ssuming i can keep trying to go up on the widow as long as I get the 20 deep reps?
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the only thing I would tweak in this routine is the calf part. Drop the weight and do a set of at least 12-15 reps in the DC fashion. If you feel the need to do the quick reps do them afterwards, in a partials style of movement and go for about 30 reps. This isn't really a DC thing but I did these for along time and my calfs grew like crazy using this technique. When you're only getting 5 reps you're not gonna be able to keep improveing on that movement enough. I'd also think about doing 1 set of 20 reps for squats, keep trying to up the weight until you can't get 20 then as the weight goes up your reps will come down. When you get to a weight you can only handle for 6-8 reps then throw in a 2nd set of widowmakers.
I know I need to drop the weight for the calves - I did it yesterday with seated calf raises and did 12 reps, and my calves were screaming by the time I got done with them. As far as the quad exercises go, I'm feeling pretty good doing the one heavy set of 4-8 and then the widowmaker set of 20.
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Nat..On the widow maker I have been increasing the weight on that as well. If i squat 390 (current weight) and then do 250 for 20 reps...I'm ssuming i can keep trying to go up on the widow as long as I get the 20 deep reps?
bingo. I've got back problems so my WM is the leg press and I try to up the weight on a regular basis, just be sure to get 20 reps and maintain good form. Don't get to the point where you're risking your back.
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Here's the thing..awhile back I was rocketing along on squats. I'm in the military so having monster legs..or more importantly legs that are sore while trying to get out of burning vehicle kinda suck. So I was neglecting my legs for awhile. Anyway....I started to squat as opposed to leg sled and i made progress. I managed 405 for 4 deep. The next week i was working up to 405 and dumped 365 on a buddies hand...his titanium wedding band saved his finger from any damage but it took 4 docs including a surgeon and 3 or 4 ring saws to get it off. It was show time in the ER. It has really effected me mentally.. I see 4 barrels and I get nervous as hell. I have only gotten it once since but i have no problem getting my 9-10 at 390. So back damage or the weight is always on my mind.....DC has helped. I like the 20 reps..it really finishes my legs off. Is there a point where more weight is pointless? If i can just keep working on increasing my reps at 405..is that good enough. Either way I'm sure i'll hve more stupid questions. You hav helped alot..thanks dude.
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Here's the thing..awhile back I was rocketing along on squats. I'm in the military so having monster legs..or more importantly legs that are sore while trying to get out of burning vehicle kinda suck. So I was neglecting my legs for awhile. Anyway....I started to squat as opposed to leg sled and i made progress. I managed 405 for 4 deep. The next week i was working up to 405 and dumped 365 on a buddies hand...his titanium wedding band saved his finger from any damage but it took 4 docs including a surgeon and 3 or 4 ring saws to get it off. It was show time in the ER. It has really effected me mentally.. I see 4 barrels and I get nervous as hell. I have only gotten it once since but i have no problem getting my 9-10 at 390. So back damage or the weight is always on my mind.....DC has helped. I like the 20 reps..it really finishes my legs off. Is there a point where more weight is pointless? If i can just keep working on increasing my reps at 405..is that good enough. Either way I'm sure i'll hve more stupid questions. You hav helped alot..thanks dude.
I'm not a strong squatter, I have a few lower back issues that have been with me for years and they are very hard to work around for me. I guess i could go to a chiropractor and have them sorted out but I just don't. If you honestly don't want to go over 390, maybe redurce the weight and just do a 20 repper....I would THINK that doing a set of 20 with 315 would be just as effective as what your doing now and then add weitht from there, next squat workout try 320 for 20 etc. This is how I handled squatting for along time but even doing this when I got heavy-heavy for me-my back couldn't take it and I did everything I could think of to protect my lower back...anyway, that's what I would try.
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is it ok to switch the muscles around. so instead of doing bis, then forearms, then quads last. can i do quads and hams first so i get them out of the way?
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is it ok to switch the muscles around. so instead of doing bis, then forearms, then quads last. can i do quads and hams first so i get them out of the way?
most everyone will tell you to keep the rotation as it is. Usually if you're totally hammering your quads you really shouldn't be able to train anything afterwards. I'd say leave it as is.
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I'm not a strong squatter, I have a few lower back issues that have been with me for years and they are very hard to work around for me. I guess i could go to a chiropractor and have them sorted out but I just don't. If you honestly don't want to go over 390, maybe redurce the weight and just do a 20 repper....I would THINK that doing a set of 20 with 315 would be just as effective as what your doing now and then add weitht from there, next squat workout try 320 for 20 etc. This is how I handled squatting for along time but even doing this when I got heavy-heavy for me-my back couldn't take it and I did everything I could think of to protect my lower back...anyway, that's what I would try.
Natural, I don't think going to 20 reps is the solution. I think a better way is to increase the targeted reps to 12. This would reduce the weight to say 335 or 355. If he gets 12 easily, then add 5 or 10 pounds and then keep adding small increments of 5 or 10 pounds at a time as he gets 12 or 13 reps without difficulty. This type of weight should not create the lower back problems squatting at 6 or 8 rep weights would.
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Natural, I don't think going to 20 reps is the solution. I think a better way is to increase the targeted reps to 12. This would reduce the weight to say 335 or 355. If he gets 12 easily, then add 5 or 10 pounds and then keep adding small increments of 5 or 10 pounds at a time as he gets 12 or 13 reps without difficulty. This type of weight should not create the lower back problems squatting at 6 or 8 rep weights would.
in the original dog logg Dante described his quad training as always being 20 rep work. He said that if he had a dude with genetically huge legs he'd have him do the 4-6 rep stuff and then do a widowmaker. My personal experience is that for me to squat and make progress I had to keep the weight a little lighter and go for 20 reps but even with that my back was giving me huge problems so I don't even bother anymore. 20 rep squats are killers....but hey, if 12 reps does the trick and you can progress on them then by all means. You see, DC is not really a cookie cutter routine, you can make changes to it if you have to as long as you progress and get stronger and/or beat the logbook. Some guys would kill me for saying that but it's the truth as far as I'm concerned. You need to do what you need to do to beat the logbook, now there is a point where if you get really nuts changing stuff it's not really gonna be DC training but realistically if you're making gains that doesn't really matter, does it? Hell, if I had to switch things around but still got up to say 220lbs and was pretty lean I'd be happy and it wouldn't matter to me if someone said "but it's not DC".....either way I would have progressed and that's the bottom line.
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in the original dog logg Dante described his quad training as always being 20 rep work. He said that if he had a dude with genetically huge legs he'd have him do the 4-6 rep stuff and then do a widowmaker. My personal experience is that for me to squat and make progress I had to keep the weight a little lighter and go for 20 reps but even with that my back was giving me huge problems so I don't even bother anymore. 20 rep squats are killers....but hey, if 12 reps does the trick and you can progress on them then by all means. You see, DC is not really a cookie cutter routine, you can make changes to it if you have to as long as you progress and get stronger and/or beat the logbook. Some guys would kill me for saying that but it's the truth as far as I'm concerned. You need to do what you need to do to beat the logbook, now there is a point where if you get really nuts changing stuff it's not really gonna be DC training but realistically if you're making gains that doesn't really matter, does it? Hell, if I had to switch things around but still got up to say 220lbs and was pretty lean I'd be happy and it wouldn't matter to me if someone said "but it's not DC".....either way I would have progressed and that's the bottom line.
I think this is the kind of thinking that caused Dante to go underground. IT IS A COOKIE CUTTER PROGRAM ( it says do a 4-8, then a 20 rep widowmaker), but people were taking so many liberties that what they were doing was not DC, as Dante saw it.
What I am concerned about when I see people doing 20 reps squats by themselves ( and not as a widowmaker) is that it becomes a means of not working the legs as hard as they can, which I see as a far too prevalent disease in gyms.
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I think this is the kind of thinking that caused Dante to go underground. IT IS A COOKIE CUTTER PROGRAM ( it says do a 4-8, then a 20 rep widowmaker), but people were taking so many liberties that what they were doing was not DC, as Dante saw it.
What I am concerned about when I see people doing 20 reps squats by themselves ( and not as a widowmaker) is that it becomes a means of not working the legs as hard as they can, which I see as a far too prevalent disease in gyms.
I'm not an expert but like I've said before I know this program very, very well. One of the older pieces of advice DC gave was something like this: If you think you're working hard squatting a certain weight for 6-8 reps, lower that weight a ltitle and go for 20 reps, that'll show you what working hard is all about. 20 rep leg work is brutal but like anything else you have to know how to do it. If you do 4 plates a side on a leg press for 20 easy reps that's not a workout, slap 700lbs on there and go until you can't go anymore, go until your legs are like jelly. If you think your gonna die at 15, don't lock your legs out but "rest" with your legs bent just a little, take in 2-3 deep breaths and go again. I don't care if you take 10 minutes to do your set but you better fry your fucking legs if you didn't then you have no one to blame but yourself.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, you have to learn how to train hard, you don't just say, "I'm gonna kill myself doing legs today" you might think you worked hard but there's a difference. When my legwork is done my quads are shaking...bad. They sometimes cramp up but I don't care, if I don't beat my book I suck. Bottom line.
If someone is inclined to work outside of the rules, so be it. it's up to them but if they fail and don't make the progress they want to it's thier own fault, don't blame DC. I do very little tweaking of the program, it's very basic, very heavy and very brutal. this is how this program works best but remember heavy is relative.
The program-the original dog logg, I'll find and copy and paste the leg portion, it's a good read.
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here's the quad training info from the original dog logg:
Quads: a typical quad workout for me is super heavy weights on either a squat, a leg press or a hack squat for 15 to 30 reps (the last 7 reps for me is truly succeed or death). Someone who has a sweep from hell and his wheels are his best body part I usually have him doing a heavy 4-8 rep set on certain exercises (squat)and then maybe a hardcore 20 repper on other exercises. But most guys who could use more leg size I have them do one set in the 4-8 range to failure and another follow-up set with as much weight as they can use in the 15-20 range to failure on legexercises. It just depends on what I see by their pictures. That is about the only time you will ever see me have a person do 2 sets of the same exercise. With bodybuilders with troublesome legs it's usually those 20 rep sets that make their legs grow and I just have them do that hard and heavy 4-8 rep set to keep the strength gains moving up the ladder.
so I guess we're both right, I haven't read that particular part in a long time and I remembered the bolded part, I remembered the part about the genetically gifted guys doing the 4-8 reps followed by the widowmaker...
for me, the whole widowmaker situation didn't work as well as a super heavy 20 repper. I go brutally heavy-for me and go to failure...
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never tried it - but its the best named training program in the world ;D
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i tried the dc program for a good 6 weeks , i helped me break through paltues but like any other workout i think it should periodized also, i learned that since its not such high volume, focus alot on the negatives and youll get amazing out of it, every workout works, but not for everyone, so try it stick to workouts for at least 6-12 weeks then its time for a change
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To trully do DC justice you must do it for at least 3 months and then judge from the results you get. Remember its how much work you put into each set that determines wether a growth spur occurs or not. Dante has the soundest training program out there and I get results after every workout.
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To trully do DC justice you must do it for at least 3 months and then judge from the results you get. Remember its how much work you put into each set that determines wether a growth spur occurs or not. Dante has the soundest training program out there and I get results after every workout.
hahahaha.... you just posted someone else's post from a month ago... you don't know the first thing about DC... go ahead.... prove me right
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hahahaha.... you just posted someone else's post from a month ago... you don't know the first thing about DC... go ahead.... prove me right
I will let my awesome physique do the talk. You willing to do the same?
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I will let my awesome physique do the talk. You willing to do the same?
"do the talk" is that russian for do the dude? mega gay for pay envy
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I will let my awesome physique do the talk. You willing to do the same?
I thought you gave up on DC training awhile ago....
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I thought you gave up on DC training awhile ago....
Yeah I had to experiment. You know that feeling when you think you are not doing enough when somebody else is training 10 times longer than you... well now I know better.
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Yeah I had to experiment. You know that feeling when you think you are not doing enough when somebody else is training 10 times longer than you... well now I know better.
I took 2 weeks off cause I blew out my back again. That was about 5 weeks ago. I just can't get going again. I don't know what the problem is, I start the week off real strong but by saturday I'm slacking off bigtime. I think I'm just menatlly burnt out with all the shit that's happened this year. I wanted to "stun" people that know me this year and nothing has gone right, nothing. Hoepfully I can end the year on a high note starting tomorrow.
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I took 2 weeks off cause I blew out my back again. That was about 5 weeks ago. I just can't get going again. I don't know what the problem is, I start the week off real strong but by saturday I'm slacking off bigtime. I think I'm just menatlly burnt out with all the shit that's happened this year. I wanted to "stun" people that know me this year and nothing has gone right, nothing. Hoepfully I can end the year on a high note starting tomorrow.
Make yourself some goals my man. Since staying away from the gym a long time bothers me I practice some martial arts moves on my off days and do cardio to stay lean.
Have a weight in mind that you want to be able to lift in so long. Things like that that get you motivated. It is time for you to start training intense again and maybe you should even switch gyms or visit troopin and kulko at their gym.
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Make yourself some goals my man. Since staying away from the gym a long time bothers me I practice some martial arts moves on my off days and do cardio to stay lean.
Have a weight in mind that you want to be able to lift in so long. Things like that that get you motivated. It is time for you to start training intense again and maybe you should even switch gyms or visit troopin and kulko at their gym.
fruity
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A typical training last about an hour or so, depending if you keep the pace up, which is pretty hard on leg day
BTW Sarcasm, DC training does not rely on (smith)machine exercises, but is sometimes recommended for safety reasons when training alone, because everything is taken to failure.
Peace
D
Duhhh...uhhh...who needs a "crutch" Smith Machine when you have a POWER RACK when "training alone"!!!
Opps, I'm sorry, I forgot! In many of these pansy-ass health-clubs/fitness-centers today they don't even have a power rack and their ignorant staff/PT's don't even know what one is???!!
What's this world coming to?! :'(
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So, has anyone seen any incredible gains through this method?
If so, do you use AAS or not?
Updates anyone?
Show me some numbers!
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So, has anyone seen any incredible gains through this method?
If so, do you use AAS or not?
Updates anyone?
Show me some numbers!
do you want strength gains or BW gains? I went from 194-213 in about 6-8 weeks doing this back in 2004 before I put serious training on hold. I did my first real good blast over the summer and got back up to 210ish from about 199-200ish. The blast was about 8 weeks long but I was in the hospital for a stomach issue and missed a week of training then I had to deal with some other issues that effected my training. I'm just starting a new blast, actually started fooling around with it last week but this week I'm gonna go balls out. I've made some good strength gains, I've inclined 305 for 12RP on a smith, done the 130's on a flat and incline press both for 4-6 reps-I couldn't rest pause them but I wanted to do them just to say I could, shoulder pressed the 105's, military press 275 on a smith-I only lower the weight to my nose cause I have issues with my shoulders so my form isn't "good' by getbig standards but if I go all the way down I'm sore for days. I've maxed out a bunch of machines in my gym, leg pressed 915 for 6.....
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I think it's great for a good laugh.
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That smith machine really does wonders for poundage, eh? 305 on incline for 12 but only 130's for 4-6 on flat? Not that 130's arent respectable but if you could do 305 on a free incline setup you would be pushin 130's for at least equal reps.
Im more interested in strength gains from this training. I dont know how much size you could actually get out of such work but I cant imagine it to be much at all.
Hey, whatever works for ya though!
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That smith machine really does wonders for poundage, eh? 305 on incline for 12 but only 130's for 4-6 on flat? Not that 130's arent respectable but if you could do 305 on a free incline setup you would be pushin 130's for at least equal reps.
Im more interested in strength gains from this training. I dont know how much size you could actually get out of such work but I cant imagine it to be much at all.
Hey, whatever works for ya though!
I did the 130's by myself, no spot no help getting it going or anything. I'm not a tall guy and I'm not making excuses but they were just really awkward for me to kick up into position, my left arm dragged real bad so the first rep was a killer. I did em one time in my workout rotation and dropped em because they were just to awkward to use, I had gotten the 120's up for 10 a couple of weeks before. I'm not making excuses, who knows, maybe I'm a wuss but that's what happened.
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Not sayin your weak. I just dont use the smith but maybe once every few months and only for maybe one set of upright rows. I never tried it for bench but I see alot of guys use it for shoulders and wondered if they could actually press 315 for 5 reps with free weights.
I guess the answer is no?
8)
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Not sayin your weak. I just dont use the smith but maybe once every few months and only for maybe one set of upright rows. I never tried it for bench but I see alot of guys use it for shoulders and wondered if they could actually press 315 for 5 reps with free weights.
I guess the answer is no?
8)
like I said I work out alone. At the time I did the 305 I was working out a rec center so my choices for a spot were either 85 year old guys or 14 year old kids....I didn't trust anybody to give me a real spot so I set the smith up with the stoppers set just high enough to keep me from killing myself if I got stuck at the bottom. I don't know if I could do 305 for 12 or not. About 5 years ago I couldn't train because I was going to school full time and working about 55-60 hours a week. I decided to see how much I could bench so I would go to my cousins house every sunday night for benching, he had a power rack and free weights up to 330, I got 330 for 2 at the end of that program. I don't remember how long I did it for, it was probably most of a semester.....
anyway that's niether here nor there. With DC you're constantly trying to beat your best lifts either by weight or by reps, you might only lift 2.5lbs more on a movement everytime or everyother time but it adds up and you can work up to some pretty respectable poundages. I know DC works with some powerlifters but I don't know what he has them do.
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do you want strength gains or BW gains? I went from 194-213 in about 6-8 weeks doing this back in 2004 before I put serious training on hold. I did my first real good blast over the summer and got back up to 210ish from about 199-200ish. The blast was about 8 weeks long but I was in the hospital for a stomach issue and missed a week of training then I had to deal with some other issues that effected my training. I'm just starting a new blast, actually started fooling around with it last week but this week I'm gonna go balls out. I've made some good strength gains, I've inclined 305 for 12RP on a smith, done the 130's on a flat and incline press both for 4-6 reps-I couldn't rest pause them but I wanted to do them just to say I could, shoulder pressed the 105's, military press 275 on a smith-I only lower the weight to my nose cause I have issues with my shoulders so my form isn't "good' by getbig standards but if I go all the way down I'm sore for days. I've maxed out a bunch of machines in my gym, leg pressed 915 for 6.....
that's good weight.
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that's good weight.
thank you. I've got no delusions of grandeur or anything, I know my form probably sucks on some things but I don't have anyone to evaluate it, I do alot of smith machine work for safety reasons, some movements I'm weak as hell on cause I just have not done them for along time. I just started doing hack squats and the weight I use is pathetic but I'm sure it's gonna go up to respectable levels before too long.
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So, has anyone seen any incredible gains through this method?
If so, do you use AAS or not?
Updates anyone?
Show me some numbers!
I am in the middle of my second DC cycle. In the first cycle in August, I gained 5 pounds in lean muscle in 4 weeks after being "stuck" for several months before that. So far in cycle 2, I am up 2 pounds in 15 days. In DC, it not only the training that is important, but it is the NUTRITION, REST and even CARDIO. I am doing cardio 3 times a week instead of 1 or 2 and it is really jacking up my appetite and metabolism. My protein intake is 1.5 grams per pound ( 300 grams a day) versus 1.25 before and even that little bit has made a difference.
No, I do not use AAS. I am 47 years old, so taken in that context, these type of gains for an experienced(not newbie), natural lifter are extraordinary in my mind.
Poundages ( since 8/7): Barbell Curls up 10, Squats up 30, Leg Press up 70, Deadlifts up 20, Rack Deadlifts up 50.
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With DC you're constantly trying to beat your best lifts either by weight or by reps, you might only lift 2.5lbs more on a movement everytime or everyother time but it adds up and you can work up to some pretty respectable poundages.
Very true. I work up in small increments at a time.
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So its doing someone some good. Glad to hear it. I am more about the strength nowadays so thats what Im looking at. I am mostly interested because I want something to switch to if I get bored with my current program.
Thanks for the feedback!
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So its doing someone some good. Glad to hear it. I am more about the strength nowadays so thats what Im looking at. I am mostly interested because I want something to switch to if I get bored with my current program.
Thanks for the feedback!
I know Dante is working with some powerlifters, what he has them doing specifically I don't know. If you go to intense muscle and check out the dog pound there is a couple of threads on there about it. I would think it would be along the same lines as what he has his BBers doing but he has so many little tricks up his sleeve I wouldn't doubt it if it was totally different.
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So its doing someone some good. Glad to hear it. I am more about the strength nowadays so thats what Im looking at. I am mostly interested because I want something to switch to if I get bored with my current program.
Thanks for the feedback!
here's a thread about the powerlifting stuff, I don't know how much info is revealed cause i didn't read it all yet but it might help...
http://www.intensemuscle.com/showthread.php?t=17649
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Any updates on DC?
I'll try it from december.
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Any updates on DC?
I'll try it from december.
what kinda updates are ya looking for? 8) 8) 8)
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what kinda updates are ya looking for? 8) 8) 8)
i thought about training progress or something like that.
I heard DC was 'doggcrapp' ;D ;D from a lot of people, and others say it's great.
I thought i try it, but wanted some more opinions from people here too. :)
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i thought about training progress or something like that.
I heard DC was 'doggcrapp' ;D ;D from a lot of people, and others say it's great.
I thought i try it, but wanted some more opinions from people here too. :)
it's a whole different way to look at training. I think it's great other guys hate it. I'll pm you a great link to check out in the next day or so.
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DC training is a gimmick and fad.
No highly respected trainer or strength coach will ever Approve of DC training.
DC foscuses on Hammer strength, Machines and Smith Machines. All of which are vastly inferior to free wts.
DC rep range brackets are almost always the same. Very little variety
The " every set to failure" mentality is a recipie for disaster for the Natural trainee.
A totally juiced lifter can make quality gains in SPITE of DC Training methods.
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DC training is a gimmick and fad.
No highly respected trainer or strength coach will ever Approve of DC training.
DC foscuses on Hammer strength, Machines and Smith Machines. All of which are vastly inferior to free wts.
DC rep range brackets are almost always the same. Very little variety
The " every set to failure" mentality is a recipie for disaster for the Natural trainee.
A totally juiced lifter can make quality gains in SPITE of DC Training methods.
You are a naive child.
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DC training is a gimmick and fad.
No highly respected trainer or strength coach will ever Approve of DC training.
DC foscuses on Hammer strength, Machines and Smith Machines. All of which are vastly inferior to free wts.
DC rep range brackets are almost always the same. Very little variety
The " every set to failure" mentality is a recipie for disaster for the Natural trainee.
A totally juiced lifter can make quality gains in SPITE of DC Training methods.
next time come back with more "blanket" statements, you're post is not even close to being well thought out or looked into. Russian and Bulgarian olympic lifters used the "rest-pause" theory to great success back n the 80's...I think those coaches were kinda well respected.
why are hammer and smith machines inferior? Cause they don't build the stabalizer muscles? Big fucking deal. Nobody eveer lost a bodybuilding contest cause they didn't have big stabalizer muscles, it's a safety thing especially if you train alone, think about it.
rep ranges are always the same? Again with the blanket statement. there are suggested rep ranges but no one ever said you had to stick to them. If you try doing a movement and get better results using a rep range of 30-like most guys do with forearms-then you run with it. As long as you are progressing who gives a fuck if you do 10 reps or 20? Again, you really don't know what you're talking about in any training fasion let alone DC.
so taking everything to failure is a recipe for disaster. Explain yourself, I'd love to hear it. You're basically going to failure once or twice a week on one movement and then recovering for the rest of the week. how is that gonna lead to failure?
bottom line you didn't read anything about hte program, you don't know jack shit and you probably don't even really work out let alone work out hard.
You're post is a total fucking joke, go do some reading and come back and speak with some common sense and maybe we can have an intellegent conversation about the subject until then STFU.
You are a naive child.
very well put alexxxx.
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next time come back with more "blanket" statements, you're post is not even close to being well thought out or looked into. Russian and Bulgarian olympic lifters used the "rest-pause" theory to great success back n the 80's...I think those coaches were kinda well respected.
why are hammer and smith machines inferior? Cause they don't build the stabalizer muscles? Big fucking deal. Nobody eveer lost a bodybuilding contest cause they didn't have big stabalizer muscles, it's a safety thing especially if you train alone, think about it.
rep ranges are always the same? Again with the blanket statement. there are suggested rep ranges but no one ever said you had to stick to them. If you try doing a movement and get better results using a rep range of 30-like most guys do with forearms-then you run with it. As long as you are progressing who gives a f**k if you do 10 reps or 20? Again, you really don't know what you're talking about in any training fasion let alone DC.
so taking everything to failure is a recipe for disaster. Explain yourself, I'd love to hear it. You're basically going to failure once or twice a week on one movement and then recovering for the rest of the week. how is that gonna lead to failure?
bottom line you didn't read anything about hte program, you don't know jack shit and you probably don't even really work out let alone work out hard.
You're post is a total fucking joke, go do some reading and come back and speak with some common sense and maybe we can have an intellegent conversation about the subject until then STFU.
Whats wrong with Hammer strength?
For 1 the leverage is too good. Thats why you always see high school kids can do 5 plates per side but when they move to barbell work they can only do a fraction of that.
Smith Machines cause shoulder impingement and awfull sheering in the knee when squats are performed. This is why you will never see one in a elite level training facility.
Im not going to break down every other arguement you put out .... Instead I will allow you time to reflect upon what I just wrote.
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Whats wrong with Hammer strength?
For 1 the leverage is too good. Thats why you always see high school kids can do 5 plates per side but when they move to barbell work they can only do a fraction of that.
Smith Machines cause shoulder impingement and awfull sheering in the knee when squats are performed. This is why you will never see one in a elite level training facility.
Im not going to break down every other arguement you put out .... Instead I will allow you time to reflect upon what I just wrote.
haha, this is ridiculous!!
...you always see high school kids can do 5 plates per side but when they move to barbell...
Stop whining because other people have more plates than you. Who the hell cares about the plates?
hahaha, this is great.
monster insecurity issues.
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Whats wrong with Hammer strength?
For 1 the leverage is too good. Thats why you always see high school kids can do 5 plates per side but when they move to barbell work they can only do a fraction of that.
Smith Machines cause shoulder impingement and awfull sheering in the knee when squats are performed. This is why you will never see one in a elite level training facility.
Im not going to break down every other arguement you put out .... Instead I will allow you time to reflect upon what I just wrote.
you're arguement for hammer strength is worthless. We're not talking about highschool kids. The only people who should be doing DC training are experienced lifters. Now if I take my shirt off and go out on a beach and look like a monster do you think it matters if I work out on a smith machine a hammer stength machine or use free weights? All that matters is what makes you big...this is not powerlifting and I'm a "bodybuilder" I'm never gonna be stopped anywhere and be challanged to bench press 320lbs just to prove that it's heavier than hammer strength.
I've never seen a powerhouse or a worlds or a golds that didn't have smith machines. Many pro's use them for squating.
You don't know a thing about DC training or you wouldn't even be wasting my time with these kind of statements.
Nobody says you have to use any machine, they are offered as an alternative. Do some research about the techniques then come back and talk to me, otherwise just stick to you're "elite" training facility.
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THis is a Quote by Charles Poliquin.
"The problem with plate-loaded machines is that the leverage is often too good. Every kid in high school can do five plates a side, but they can't do five plates a side with any barbell exercise. The only time they do five plates is when they go to IHOP. And when in real life would you have to overcome resistance in a seated position? Never.
Another problem with machines is the fixed pattern of movement."
Here is the entire article. It would serve you guys well to read this.
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=06-173-training
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THis is a Quote by Charles Poliquin.
"The problem with plate-loaded machines is that the leverage is often too good. Every kid in high school can do five plates a side, but they can't do five plates a side with any barbell exercise. The only time they do five plates is when they go to IHOP. And when in real life would you have to overcome resistance in a seated position? Never.
Another problem with machines is the fixed pattern of movement."
Here is the entire article. It would serve you guys well to read this.
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=06-173-training
What the hell does this have to do with DC training?
Please read al's post again, he has already answered your claims.
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OK, here's my two cents.
I am not knowledgeable enough to say that DC does or doesn't work. I have never seen pics of folks that have used DC (except for Dave Henry, and he ain't natural), so I have nothing to base results on except for testimony. I recently came back off of a lower back strain, and decided to give DC a go. I just did it for 2 weeks, 6 workouts total. I am going back to more volume and splitting out my bodyparts over 3 days (except for abs and calves, trained 3 days a week with cardio), largely because I feel that I am neglecting some bodyparts by only doing one exercise for an entire muscle region. HOWEVER, I think there is value in the rest/pause on the first heavy compound exercise and in the extreme stretching. The stretching seems to be adding some detail (especially quads), and I notice I am a bit more flexible. I think that the calves training technique also has merit.
But I sill not be so naive as to say that this program does not work.
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THis is a Quote by Charles Poliquin.
"The problem with plate-loaded machines is that the leverage is often too good. Every kid in high school can do five plates a side, but they can't do five plates a side with any barbell exercise. The only time they do five plates is when they go to IHOP. And when in real life would you have to overcome resistance in a seated position? Never.
Another problem with machines is the fixed pattern of movement."
Here is the entire article. It would serve you guys well to read this.
http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=06-173-training
I'm well aware of all the "pitfalls" of plate loaded machines, I've said it before and I'll say it again...I could care less about how much I bench vs. how much I use on a hammer flat machine. I could care less how much I bench at this point. The only thing I care about when I walk into the gym is am I moving more weight using good form than I did the last time? Am I doing movements that will allow me to continually grogress and once that progress eventually stops can I rotate in another movement that I can get brutally strong with? If I can go from using 225 for 13 reps rest paused to 315lbs for 12 reps rest paused over a period of time using a smith machine what's not to like?
machines in general are not the give all end all of DC they are presented as an option and for some people who train alone don't you think it's better to be safe than to walk around like a dogmatic caveman saying "I only use free weights". It's just like all these idiots who say you have to do rack chins when you do dc...no. It's presented as an option. Same with every other aspect of the program, it never says anywhere you HAVE to do certain movements, you tailor the routine to fit the movements you think will give YOU the best results. The only movements that are advised againts are flat bench presses cause people feel it places too much stress on the pec/delt area and a tear may be possible.
you're just not informed, you have every right to your opinion but honestly you don't know what you're talking about and it was proven in your above post about no elite gym having a smith machine. Show me a powerhouse, worlds, golds or really any other major facility that does not have a smith. Dorian used one. Shawn Ray used one for squats.....you either don't know how to use this particular piece of equipment or someone is giving you faulty information. I've got major league lower back issues-from a job I used to have not from working out-and I squatted using a smith for a long time, it allowed me to keep my back in a position that was pain free, I never suffered any knee problems.
oh, well, whatever. You just go ahead and do what you're doing. Meanwhile with one really good blast this last year I'm up from 194lbs to 210lbs and my waist is the same size...not bad considering I was in the hospital for 3 days in august for diverticulitus, my dad had a major stroke, I had pnuemonia last winter and all the issues with my son. Now all I gotta do is rip up and I should be able to cruise into a natural show at the end of the year...oppppss..I hope they don't mark me down cause I use a smith machine for some movements ;D
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OK, here's my two cents.
I am not knowledgeable enough to say that DC does or doesn't work. I have never seen pics of folks that have used DC (except for Dave Henry, and he ain't natural), so I have nothing to base results on except for testimony. I recently came back off of a lower back strain, and decided to give DC a go. I just did it for 2 weeks, 6 workouts total. I am going back to more volume and splitting out my bodyparts over 3 days (except for abs and calves, trained 3 days a week with cardio), largely because I feel that I am neglecting some bodyparts by only doing one exercise for an entire muscle region. HOWEVER, I think there is value in the rest/pause on the first heavy compound exercise and in the extreme stretching. The stretching seems to be adding some detail (especially quads), and I notice I am a bit more flexible. I think that the calves training technique also has merit.
But I sill not be so naive as to say that this program does not work.
well, if you gave it an honest try then I can't fault you for it. I'd like to know what kind of training you did prior to starting DC and what you're program looked like while you were doing it before you stopped. DC is really a totally different mindset and it takes alot of getting used to. IF you ever want to readdress it in the future post your routine and we can take a look at it....who knows maybe we can do a few little tweaks and you'll feel better about it.
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I'm now only three weeks into my DC experience and i must say i love it.
I have done HST and HIT before, but DC takes training to another world. It freaks me every time how after a workout i'm completly exausted and never think i could go any harder on these exercises, yet when you come back to the gym the next time, you can go harder.
It's mentally extremely difficult to push oneself to the limit in EVERY workout, 3 times a week, but it seems to fit me. I like to fight myself. ;D
The last 20 reps set on quads is the absolute best i have done for legs in my life. ;D ;D
I was always afraid to do back and chest in one workout but it works very well and i feel good all the time.
I can eat a lot more than before, my body seems to cry out for protein, it's almost like you can feel the energy it needs now. absolutely amazing feeling.
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I'm well aware of all the "pitfalls" of plate loaded machines, I've said it before and I'll say it again...I could care less about how much I bench vs. how much I use on a hammer flat machine. I could care less how much I bench at this point. The only thing I care about when I walk into the gym is am I moving more weight using good form than I did the last time? Am I doing movements that will allow me to continually grogress and once that progress eventually stops can I rotate in another movement that I can get brutally strong with? If I can go from using 225 for 13 reps rest paused to 315lbs for 12 reps rest paused over a period of time using a smith machine what's not to like?
machines in general are not the give all end all of DC they are presented as an option and for some people who train alone don't you think it's better to be safe than to walk around like a dogmatic caveman saying "I only use free weights". It's just like all these idiots who say you have to do rack chins when you do dc...no. It's presented as an option. Same with every other aspect of the program, it never says anywhere you HAVE to do certain movements, you tailor the routine to fit the movements you think will give YOU the best results. The only movements that are advised againts are flat bench presses cause people feel it places too much stress on the pec/delt area and a tear may be possible.
you're just not informed, you have every right to your opinion but honestly you don't know what you're talking about and it was proven in your above post about no elite gym having a smith machine. Show me a powerhouse, worlds, golds or really any other major facility that does not have a smith. Dorian used one. Shawn Ray used one for squats.....you either don't know how to use this particular piece of equipment or someone is giving you faulty information. I've got major league lower back issues-from a job I used to have not from working out-and I squatted using a smith for a long time, it allowed me to keep my back in a position that was pain free, I never suffered any knee problems.
oh, well, whatever. You just go ahead and do what you're doing. Meanwhile with one really good blast this last year I'm up from 194lbs to 210lbs and my waist is the same size...not bad considering I was in the hospital for 3 days in august for diverticulitus, my dad had a major stroke, I had pnuemonia last winter and all the issues with my son. Now all I gotta do is rip up and I should be able to cruise into a natural show at the end of the year...oppppss..I hope they don't mark me down cause I use a smith machine for some movements ;D
Let me say that I am sorry to hear about the health issues of your dad and son as well as yourself. I hope all of you guys are doing much better now.
I am still confused though, mentioned a few posts up about wanting to look big at the beach and in the above post competing at a heavier weight.... then earlier in the post you mentioned that you wanted to increase a chosen lift from 225 x 12 to 315 x 12...... which leads me to ask....
Are you training for strength or training to get bigger?
I think you give such a passionate response because mainstream bodybuilding has defined who you are as a person.
DO You truely believe that Golds gym or Worlds gym is an Elite level training center?? They are recreational gyms for the everyday gym-goer, the regular lay-person.
Here are a few Elite level training centers:
http://www.ppcchicago.com/index2.php
http://www.ihpfit.com/
These are serious Elite level performance training centers which caters to Olympic level athletes and highly paid professional athletes and the lay-person who wants optimal training.
If DC is so optimal at building strength and muscle why dont Elite level trainig centers like these use it? WHy dont professional strength/performance coaches use it to build strength?
Why dont Dave Tate or Elitefts.com and Luoie Simmons of Westside use DC instead of their own meathods to build strength>??
Pleas ehelp me to understand this because I am confused.
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Are you seriously this dumb?
What you are saying is that DC is shit because your so called elite fitness gyms haven't got any smith machines?
::) ::)
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Let me say that I am sorry to hear about the health issues of your dad and son as well as yourself. I hope all of you guys are doing much better now.
I am still confused though, mentioned a few posts up about wanting to look big at the beach and in the above post competing at a heavier weight.... then earlier in the post you mentioned that you wanted to increase a chosen lift from 225 x 12 to 315 x 12...... which leads me to ask....
Are you training for strength or training to get bigger?
I think you give such a passionate response because mainstream bodybuilding has defined who you are as a person.
DO You truely believe that Golds gym or Worlds gym is an Elite level training center?? They are recreational gyms for the everyday gym-goer, the regular lay-person.
Here are a few Elite level training centers:
http://www.ppcchicago.com/index2.php
http://www.ihpfit.com/
These are serious Elite level performance training centers which caters to Olympic level athletes and highly paid professional athletes and the lay-person who wants optimal training.
If DC is so optimal at building strength and muscle why dont Elite level trainig centers like these use it? WHy dont professional strength/performance coaches use it to build strength?
Why dont Dave Tate or Elitefts.com and Luoie Simmons of Westside use DC instead of their own meathods to build strength>??
Pleas ehelp me to understand this because I am confused.
mostly the examples I gave were to illustrate certain points. The bottom line and the overall theory behind dogcrapp-as I understand it-is if you get stronger, for reps not for singles you're going to grow. DC talks about the guy we all know who can put up 405 for a rep but doesn't have a chest but how many guys do you know who can put up 345 for 12-15 reps in rest paused fashion that show no develpement? Over all if I go from 225*12 to 315*15 over 6 months on the close grip bench press my tri's are gonna grow, so you are training for strength but you're doing it in a way that also promotes musclular growth. Lets put it this way, what do you think is gonna give you better results doing close grips with 225 for 2 sets of 10 in january and then doing the same movement in july using 235lbs or busting your ass and making yourself strong as an ox while focusing on recovery?
I talked about the beach just to say if you look big and you're getting the results you want it doesn't matter if you use a smith or free wieghts or machines....as long as it works you use it.
as far as the elite fitness facilties...how many people on this board are gonna train at the facilities you mentioned? Most guys here train at a golds or a powerhouse...hell, I've never been in those places. I think once you subscribe to the dogma of "I've got to use freewieghts" you limit your options too much. There are good things about alot of machines, now I wouldn't tell a guy to train on a hammer strength machine for 6 months then go enter a powerlifting meet, that would be stupid but if that guy trained on a hammer strenght machine and was improving the bodypart he was training why tell him to stop? Again it's bodybuilding not powerlifting. There's a guy on the G&O boards named daddywaddy who claims to just do bodyweight pushups for hours at a time and he's gotten good results, I'm not gonna tell him to stop, is it what I "think" he should be doing? No but it's working for him.
as far as the strength training aspect of it goes, to be perfectly honest I don't know enough about it to debate it. I know I've gotten very, very strong on certain movements using this type of training. I know DC is working with powelifters but I dont' know what he has them doing. The main aspect of this type of training is that you're always lifting more weight or you loose that movement from your rotation, I got brutally strong on some things so I dont' see why it wouldn't translate. Go on youtube and look for vids of Justin harris or Steve Kulco, both train with DC and both are as strong as mules. I know rest pause techniques have been used in the past by some olympic trainers but that's all I know.
I hope i addressed everything, I've got a ton going on, maybe to make it easier if we want to continue this we can cut down on the length of the posts so I can get the answers out a little quicker otherwise I have to do it during my spare time and that rushes things, I'm on the road right now so it's a little rough to put all my thoughts down.
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Are you seriously this dumb?
What you are saying is that DC is shit because your so called elite fitness gyms haven't got any smith machines?
::) ::)
smith machines are a tool. I maxed out on the incline on the smith at 305 for 12 reps at about 195lbs, the reps were rest paused but that's where I ended up. Now I'm usign a precor machine in my rotationa nd I've almost got it maxed out so I've got to find another alternative.
There's this whole dogma of "machines suck" and it's just not true, machines dont' suck...they're just another avenue to take, another option and if you are close minded you're limiting yourself. I'd love to train on the old 70's natulus machines just because I've never used them but I'd love to seee the results.
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smith machines are a tool. I maxed out on the incline on the smith at 305 for 12 reps at about 195lbs, the reps were rest paused but that's where I ended up. Now I'm usign a precor machine in my rotationa nd I've almost got it maxed out so I've got to find another alternative.
There's this whole dogma of "machines suck" and it's just not true, machines dont' suck...they're just another avenue to take, another option and if you are close minded you're limiting yourself. I'd love to train on the old 70's natulus machines just because I've never used them but I'd love to seee the results.
Same here.
There is no question that machines are easier than free weights. Anybody can leg press about twice as much as he can squat, at least.
But that is not the question in DC.
DC means that you have to get stronger regarding one movement.
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Same here.
There is no question that machines are easier than free weights. Anybody can leg press about twice as much as he can squat, at least.
But that is not the question in DC.
DC means that you have to get stronger regarding one movement.
and once you "top out' on that movement you drop it and pick up a new one that you can becoem a monster on. I start my next blast january 2nd and I can't wait to bury 1/2 the movements I plan on using...it's gonna be fun as hell.
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well, if you gave it an honest try then I can't fault you for it. I'd like to know what kind of training you did prior to starting DC and what you're program looked like while you were doing it before you stopped. DC is really a totally different mindset and it takes alot of getting used to. IF you ever want to readdress it in the future post your routine and we can take a look at it....who knows maybe we can do a few little tweaks and you'll feel better about it.
First, some quick stats: 31 y/o, 6’0, 255 lbs, @ 12-14% BF; best lifts are 405 bench, 550 squat, and 575 deadlift (all competition in July); been lifting 6 years.
I was at a 3-day split before DC (Mon, Wed, Fri); Chest/Tri, Back/Bi, Legs/Shoulders/Traps (calves were trained with abs 3 times a week). 3 exercises of 2-3 sets per muscleg group (except traps, which is just very heavy shrugs). Rep range usually 6-10, except deadlift and squats which were 5x5.
OK, so here is what I did for DC:
U1
Incline Smith Press (11-15rp)
Military Press (11-20rp)
Close Grip Bench Press (11-20 rp)
Close Grip Pulldown (11-15rp)
Deadlift (6-9, 9-12)
L1
Preacher Curl (11-20rp)
Hammer DB Curl (10-20)
Leg Press Calf Raises (10-12)
Seated Leg Curl (15-30rp)
Squats (6-10, 20 widowmaker)
U2
Machine Press (11-15rp)
Machine Military Press (11-15rp)
EZ Bar Triceps Extensions (15-30rp)
Front Pulldowns (11-15rp)
T-Bar Row (10-12) (done with barbell in corner)
L2
Dumbbell Curls (11-20rp)
Reverse Grip 1-Arm Cable Curls (10-20)
Seated Calf Raises (10-12)
Sumo Leg Press (15-25)
Hack Squat (6-10, 20 widowmaker)
U3
Decline Bench Press (11-15rp)
Upright Row (11-20rp)
Reverse Grip Bench Press (11-20rp)
Front Rack Chinups (11-20rp)
Rack Deadlifts (6-9, 9-12)
L3
EZ Bar Curls (11-20rp)
Cable Forearm Curls (10-20)
Smith Machine Calf Raises (10-12)
Stiff Legged Deadlifts (15-25)
Front Squats (6-10, 20 widowmaker)
I did extreme stretching for each bodypart after it was worked. I did (and still do) cardio and abs on Tues, Thurs, and Sat. Cardio is 30 minutes on bike (5 minutes getting to target HR, 20 minutes target, 5 minutes getting below target HR). Abs alternate between the following:
ABS 1
Cable Crunch (4x30)
Reverse Crunch Plus (extra extension and hold at top; 4x10)
Oblique Crunch on Roman Chair (4x20, no rest)
Floor Crunch (4x20)
ABS 2
Cable Crunch (alternating sides, 4x60)
Lying Leg Raise (on bench, 4x15)
4-Count Flutter Kicks (3x30)
Feet-Propped Crunch (2x30)
I just feel that I am incapable of giving all of my bodyparts the attention they need with the DC volume and split. For instance, if I am not shrugging and doing something specifically targeting my rear delts, my whole trap/shoulder region gets out of balance.
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First, some quick stats: 31 y/o, 6’0, 255 lbs, @ 12-14% BF; best lifts are 405 bench, 550 squat, and 575 deadlift (all competition in July); been lifting 6 years.
I was at a 3-day split before DC (Mon, Wed, Fri); Chest/Tri, Back/Bi, Legs/Shoulders/Traps (calves were trained with abs 3 times a week). 3 exercises of 2-3 sets per muscleg group (except traps, which is just very heavy shrugs). Rep range usually 6-10, except deadlift and squats which were 5x5.
OK, so here is what I did for DC:
U1
Incline Smith Press (11-15rp)
Military Press (11-20rp)
Close Grip Bench Press (11-20 rp)
Close Grip Pulldown (11-15rp)
Deadlift (6-9, 9-12)
L1
Preacher Curl (11-20rp)
Hammer DB Curl (10-20)
Leg Press Calf Raises (10-12)
Seated Leg Curl (15-30rp)
Squats (6-10, 20 widowmaker)
U2
Machine Press (11-15rp)
Machine Military Press (11-15rp)
EZ Bar Triceps Extensions (15-30rp)
Front Pulldowns (11-15rp)
T-Bar Row (10-12) (done with barbell in corner)
L2
Dumbbell Curls (11-20rp)
Reverse Grip 1-Arm Cable Curls (10-20)
Seated Calf Raises (10-12)
Sumo Leg Press (15-25)
Hack Squat (6-10, 20 widowmaker)
U3
Decline Bench Press (11-15rp)
Upright Row (11-20rp)
Reverse Grip Bench Press (11-20rp)
Front Rack Chinups (11-20rp)
Rack Deadlifts (6-9, 9-12)
L3
EZ Bar Curls (11-20rp)
Cable Forearm Curls (10-20)
Smith Machine Calf Raises (10-12)
Stiff Legged Deadlifts (15-25)
Front Squats (6-10, 20 widowmaker)
I did extreme stretching for each bodypart after it was worked. I did (and still do) cardio and abs on Tues, Thurs, and Sat. Cardio is 30 minutes on bike (5 minutes getting to target HR, 20 minutes target, 5 minutes getting below target HR). Abs alternate between the following:
ABS 1
Cable Crunch (4x30)
Reverse Crunch Plus (extra extension and hold at top; 4x10)
Oblique Crunch on Roman Chair (4x20, no rest)
Floor Crunch (4x20)
ABS 2
Cable Crunch (alternating sides, 4x60)
Lying Leg Raise (on bench, 4x15)
4-Count Flutter Kicks (3x30)
Feet-Propped Crunch (2x30)
I just feel that I am incapable of giving all of my bodyparts the attention they need with the DC volume and split. For instance, if I am not shrugging and doing something specifically targeting my rear delts, my whole trap/shoulder region gets out of balance.
well I can't fault the routine and you obviously have experience lifting so that's not the problem. Like I said it's sometimes just changing a mindset. I totally understand what your saying bout the rear delts and how you feel about certain aspects of the pysique that may get overlooked. The only thing I can tell you is DC has you baically doing your rack deads in a manner that are supposed to hit the traps, you pull up and back with your shoulder girdle at the top of each rep.
Well you gave it a good go, maybe try it again in the future, I can't really find anything wrong just by making a quick observation but i'm not an expert I'm just a guy who knows the routine really, really well.
You could always play around with rep ranges and stuff to help you adjust to the low volume but I'm not sure if that would "fix" it for ya.
If you're gonna do DC again go over to intensemuscle and click around in the dogpound section, lots of really good info is there.
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First, some quick stats: 31 y/o, 6’0, 255 lbs, @ 12-14% BF; best lifts are 405 bench, 550 squat, and 575 deadlift (all competition in July); been lifting 6 years.
I was at a 3-day split before DC (Mon, Wed, Fri); Chest/Tri, Back/Bi, Legs/Shoulders/Traps (calves were trained with abs 3 times a week). 3 exercises of 2-3 sets per muscleg group (except traps, which is just very heavy shrugs). Rep range usually 6-10, except deadlift and squats which were 5x5.
OK, so here is what I did for DC:
U1
Incline Smith Press (11-15rp)
Military Press (11-20rp)
Close Grip Bench Press (11-20 rp)
Close Grip Pulldown (11-15rp)
Deadlift (6-9, 9-12)
L1
Preacher Curl (11-20rp)
Hammer DB Curl (10-20)
Leg Press Calf Raises (10-12)
Seated Leg Curl (15-30rp)
Squats (6-10, 20 widowmaker)
U2
Machine Press (11-15rp)
Machine Military Press (11-15rp)
EZ Bar Triceps Extensions (15-30rp)
Front Pulldowns (11-15rp)
T-Bar Row (10-12) (done with barbell in corner)
L2
Dumbbell Curls (11-20rp)
Reverse Grip 1-Arm Cable Curls (10-20)
Seated Calf Raises (10-12)
Sumo Leg Press (15-25)
Hack Squat (6-10, 20 widowmaker)
U3
Decline Bench Press (11-15rp)
Upright Row (11-20rp)
Reverse Grip Bench Press (11-20rp)
Front Rack Chinups (11-20rp)
Rack Deadlifts (6-9, 9-12)
L3
EZ Bar Curls (11-20rp)
Cable Forearm Curls (10-20)
Smith Machine Calf Raises (10-12)
Stiff Legged Deadlifts (15-25)
Front Squats (6-10, 20 widowmaker)
I did extreme stretching for each bodypart after it was worked. I did (and still do) cardio and abs on Tues, Thurs, and Sat. Cardio is 30 minutes on bike (5 minutes getting to target HR, 20 minutes target, 5 minutes getting below target HR). Abs alternate between the following:
ABS 1
Cable Crunch (4x30)
Reverse Crunch Plus (extra extension and hold at top; 4x10)
Oblique Crunch on Roman Chair (4x20, no rest)
Floor Crunch (4x20)
ABS 2
Cable Crunch (alternating sides, 4x60)
Lying Leg Raise (on bench, 4x15)
4-Count Flutter Kicks (3x30)
Feet-Propped Crunch (2x30)
I just feel that I am incapable of giving all of my bodyparts the attention they need with the DC volume and split. For instance, if I am not shrugging and doing something specifically targeting my rear delts, my whole trap/shoulder region gets out of balance.
I think you have a pretty solid routine but need to stick with it for a while longer. If nothing else think of this as strength training. I noticed you are doing upright rows for shoulders ?? are they overpowering or what? If I where you I would stick with the basics and work on the lifts you want to be stronger on.
Shoulders get hit from everyangle on any presses. I like to incorporate behind the neck presses.
Do another 8-12 weeks or you will always wonder what if I kept on going what would have been my results..
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I think you have a pretty solid routine but need to stick with it for a while longer. If nothing else think of this as strength training. I noticed you are doing upright rows for shoulders ?? are they overpowering or what? If I where you I would stick with the basics and work on the lifts you want to be stronger on.
Shoulders get hit from everyangle on any presses. I like to incorporate behind the neck presses.
Do another 8-12 weeks or you will always wonder what if I kept on going what would have been my results..
not to speak for him but lots of guys get sick of doing presses everytime they do shoulders, I did upright rows for awhile but they don't do my rotator cuff any favors so I dropped em. I've also done what I call "power laterals", they're kinda hard to describe but you adjust you're body mechanics while doing regular side laterals so that you can handle some pretty big poundages.
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The reason Smith Machines are used in DC are for safety.
If you want to know why, read about the program and stop making blanket statements.
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The reason Smith Machines are used in DC are for safety.
If you want to know why, read about the program and stop making blanket statements.
Smith machines are for pussies!
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The reason Smith Machines are used in DC are for safety.
If you want to know why, read about the program and stop making blanket statements.
exactly. What's with all the hate on the smith machine? oh, yeah, it doesn't build "stabalizer muscles"...ok, well if I compete and loose a show cause I don't have big stabilizers then I'll worry about them.
Smith machines are for pussies!
c'mon alexxx...you must be joking.
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Smith machines are for pussies!
Until I started DC, I didn't use Smith Machines alot, but they are necessary for DC and if gaining several pounds of muscle in three months is "pussy", so be it.
Hey, you want to send me an XXXXL size T Shirt with " I'm a Pussy" written on it. I'll wear it when I train.
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Until I started DC, I didn't use Smith Machines alot, but they are necessary for DC and if gaining several pounds of muscle in three months is "pussy", so be it.
Hey, you want to send me an XXXXL size T Shirt with " I'm a Pussy" written on it. I'll wear it when I train.
Post a pic "big guy"!
Dante intended his trainees to train hard not half asses machine work.
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Post a pic "big guy"!
Dante intended his trainees to train hard not half asses machine work.
Dante doesn't care if you use machines or free weights..as long as you're getting bigger and stronger isn't that all that matters?
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I just feel that I am incapable of giving all of my bodyparts the attention they need with the DC volume and split. For instance, if I am not shrugging and doing something specifically targeting my rear delts, my whole trap/shoulder region gets out of balance.
Your traps and rear delts are hit when you do deadlifts. If you are using weight that pushes you, these should not be a problem. I haven't been doing any trap or rear delt work and both are improving.
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Dante intended his trainees to train hard not half asses machine work.
This is Dante himself from Ironman Magazine, July 2006:
"...its very easy to save yourself on a Smith Incline press at a failure point. You just turn the bar and latch the weight. I would hate to see one of my trainees doing free weight incline bar presses with a guillotine bar on his neck at failure...regardless, a lot of people misconstrue this as a love for machines, when in actuality I'm trying to keep safety in mind for someone who does not have a spotter. Its as simple as that. My choice would always be a free weight over a machine if it can be done safely. That's why I tend to use power racks and Smith Machines a lot".
And by the way, have you done DC yourself?
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Your traps and rear delts are hit when you do deadlifts. If you are using weight that pushes you, these should not be a problem. I haven't been doing any trap or rear delt work and both are improving.
Not me. If I'm not doing heavy shrugs, my traps go nowhere. And if I'm not doing rear delt isolation moves with dumbbells or cables, my front and side delts start to overpower the rear ones. My body is just to that point.
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This is Dante himself from Ironman Magazine, July 2006:
"...its very easy to save yourself on a Smith Incline press at a failure point. You just turn the bar and latch the weight. I would hate to see one of my trainees doing free weight incline bar presses with a guillotine bar on his neck at failure...regardless, a lot of people misconstrue this as a love for machines, when in actuality I'm trying to keep safety in mind for someone who does not have a spotter. Its as simple as that. My choice would always be a free weight over a machine if it can be done safely. That's why I tend to use power racks and Smith Machines a lot".
And by the way, have you done DC yourself?
That's for backing up my point. It clearly says that Dante prefers freeweights over machines but because his trainees cannot do them safely them must alter for the easy baby version.
I have done DC with good results!
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Dante intended his trainees to train hard not half asses machine work.
That's for backing up my point. It clearly says that Dante prefers freeweights over machines but because his trainees cannot do them safely them must alter for the easy baby version.
I'm confused. You seem to be contradicting yourself.
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I'm confused. You seem to be contradicting yourself.
DC is all about causing the greatest amount of strain on the muscle with only one set and then recover and do more. Tell me who is going to be thicker, a bodybuilder that benches 500 x 10 on free weight incline or a bodybuilder that does the same on the smith machine?
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The bodybuilder on the Smith Machine because the free weight guy is going to get hurt and either be in rehab for six months or else permanently injured so that he won't be able to bench more than 300 for the rest of his life.
Mine (and Dante's ) point is that safety is an important consideration. It only takes one injury to knock someone out of the box. Take it from someone who in his earlier younger past did stupid ego gratification things like that and ended up with a rotator cuff injury that set me back for many many months.
big smart "pussy"
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The bodybuilder on the Smith Machine because the free weight guy is going to get hurt and either be in rehab for six months or else permanently injured so that he won't be able to bench more than 300 for the rest of his life.
Mine (and Dante's ) point is that safety is an important consideration. It only takes one injury to knock someone out of the box. Take it from someone who in his earlier younger past did stupid ego gratification things like that and ended up with a rotator cuff injury that set me back for many many months.
big smart "pussy"
You didn't answer the question.
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The bodybuilder on the Smith Machine
I did answer. That's enough. I'm outa here. I've got better things to do with my time than argue back and forth with you. See ya...
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The bodybuilder on the Smith Machine
I did answer. That's enough. I'm outa here. I've got better things to do with my time than argue back and forth with you. See ya...
Here the big numbers seem to be confusing you so to be safe here are the training poundages you can handle.
free weight bench press 100 pounds x 10
smith bench press 100 pounds x 10
Now make your decision.
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Here the big numbers seem to be confusing you so to be safe here are the training poundages you can handle.
free weight bench press 100 pounds x 10
smith bench press 100 pounds x 10
Now make your decision.
doesn't matter. What matters is how much they improve on which lift over the course of a few months. If the guy doing free weights only ends up with 135*11 rest paused and tops out but the guy on the smith goes all the way to 195*13 and is still progressing then the guy on the smith is getting more out of what he put into it.
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doesn't matter. What matters is how much they improve on which lift over the course of a few months. If the guy doing free weights only ends up with 135*11 rest paused and tops out but the guy on the smith goes all the way to 195*13 and is still progressing then the guy on the smith is getting more out of what he put into it.
Natural al unplug your ears or open your eyes when you read!! You did not answer the question.
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Natural al unplug your ears or open your eyes when you read!! You did not answer the question.
sorry....guess I lost track with all the bickering...what was the question again?
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What builds bigger muscles machines or free weights.
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What builds bigger muscles machines or free weights.
like I said, it doesn't matter for the most part. Yeah, yeah...I know it's "pc" to say "free weights build bigger muscles" but honestly I don't know how much of that I buy. Like I said if a guy starts off with 100lbs on the smith and ends up using 230 and is still progressing-getting a good number of reps and increasing weight-then I honestly don't know how much it matters.
don't give me the whole "you don't build stabilizer muscls with machines" crapp either. I could care less about stabizer muscles, if I loose a show because of stabilizers then I'll worry about them.
I'm not saying free wieghts are bad at all, what I'm saying is I don't loose any sleep over not using them for some movements, it's all about progressing. You're muscles don't "know" you're using a machine, they know you're lifting 10lbs more than you did the last workout and beating the hell out of them so they'll react to that stress.
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like I said, it doesn't matter for the most part. Yeah, yeah...I know it's "pc" to say "free weights build bigger muscles" but honestly I don't know how much of that I buy. Like I said if a guy starts off with 100lbs on the smith and ends up using 230 and is still progressing-getting a good number of reps and increasing weight-then I honestly don't know how much it matters.
don't give me the whole "you don't build stabilizer muscls with machines" crapp either. I could care less about stabizer muscles, if I loose a show because of stabilizers then I'll worry about them.
I'm not saying free wieghts are bad at all, what I'm saying is I don't loose any sleep over not using them for some movements, it's all about progressing. You're muscles don't "know" you're using a machine, they know you're lifting 10lbs more than you did the last workout and beating the hell out of them so they'll react to that stress.
It is funny how you guys ignore the question. Maybe you need to ask Dante yourself.
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It is funny how you guys ignore the question. Maybe you need to ask Dante yourself.
how am i ignoring the question? I answered it...maybe you're just having a hard time keeping up. Read it slower next time, maybe you'll start to understand it if you read a sentence and take a break for a few minutes then come back.
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how am i ignoring the question? I answered it...maybe you're just having a hard time keeping up. Read it slower next time, maybe you'll start to understand it if you read a sentence and take a break for a few minutes then come back.
Ok natural al you can keep on running around in circles if you wish.
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my opinion? Whatever tools you use to accomplish the job is fine with me. I think you guys are arguing over something that doesnt need to be argued over. If Skippy loves squats and Horace loves hacks and they both have built great legs, does it really matter?
My preference? Whatever you have to use to progressively rest pause SAFELY on. If you have a training partner then I say bomb away with free weight inclines with a barbell, you dont have to worry about getting stuck, he will save you every time during your rest pauses. If you dont have a training partner I would much rather see you on an incline smythe machine than be caught with 315lbs on a free weight barbell guillotine yelling "HELP!" when you tried to go for that extra rep and it wasnt in the cards that day.
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my opinion? Whatever tools you use to accomplish the job is fine with me. I think you guys are arguing over something that doesnt need to be argued over. If Skippy loves squats and Horace loves hacks and they both have built great legs, does it really matter?
My preference? Whatever you have to use to progressively rest pause SAFELY on. If you have a training partner then I say bomb away with free weight inclines with a barbell, you dont have to worry about getting stuck, he will save you every time during your rest pauses. If you dont have a training partner I would much rather see you on an incline smythe machine than be caught with 315lbs on a free weight barbell guillotine yelling "HELP!" when you tried to go for that extra rep and it wasnt in the cards that day.
I dont' really think anyone was arguing...I think alexxx was just being a dick, I answered his question awhile ago.
I'm gonna pretty much just post in this thread for awhile....I need a break from all the bitchin on the g&O boards..I'm just gonna shut up and train for awhile and we'll see what happens.
I'm expecting big things this year....that's all I'll say.....
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Nothing against anyone on this thread and please dont take this personally Alexxx, but I always defer to Natural Al as the goto man on this site when it comes to my methods. We have spoken alot thru PM's, from that I recognize that he has spent a great deal reading what ive written and knows my methods thoroughly. If I ever get a question at mayhem referring to something they saw on getbig or here in PM's I tell people to pay close attention to what Natural Al says over here because he is spot on.
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I dont' really think anyone was arguing...I think alexxx was just being a dick, I answered his question awhile ago.
I'm gonna pretty much just post in this thread for awhile....I need a break from all the bitchin on the g&O boards..I'm just gonna shut up and train for awhile and we'll see what happens.
I'm expecting big things this year....that's all I'll say.....
arguing=referring to egoatdoor and alexxx
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Nothing against anyone on this thread and please dont take this personally Alexxx, but I always defer to Natural Al as the goto man on this site when it comes to my methods. We have spoken alot thru PM's, from that I recognize that he has spent a great deal reading what ive written and knows my methods thoroughly. If I ever get a question at mayhem referring to something they saw on getbig or here in PM's I tell people to pay close attention to what Natural Al says over here because he is spot on.
shucks.....thanks, man.
If there's one thing that I can say is that I really did try to wrap my mind around your concepts right from the start. I didn't fully believe them but I set everything aside and went for it and got great results. It's funny cause really alot of it is such common sense...the mags confuse the hell out of people, I'm glad I found someone who could cut through the BS and just say "hey this is what I think works"
it's a whole different mindset and if you can do it the way you're supposed to I honestly don't see how you can fail.
This is gonna be the first time I can blast away without worrying about things outside of training, I'm very interested to see what come of this.
I'm hoping to put it all together and step on stage at the end of the year...we'll see....maybe by summertime I'll go train with troop and Kulco if everything works out and we can get some cool training footage of a lifetime natty using you're concepts so everyone on this site will finally stfu.
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Nothing against anyone on this thread and please dont take this personally Alexxx, but I always defer to Natural Al as the goto man on this site when it comes to my methods. We have spoken alot thru PM's, from that I recognize that he has spent a great deal reading what ive written and knows my methods thoroughly. If I ever get a question at mayhem referring to something they saw on getbig or here in PM's I tell people to pay close attention to what Natural Al says over here because he is spot on.
That's fine Dante. If you say natural al knows your program best then who am I to argue. I do respect what natural al says but he has a little attitude to himself.
Natural al go blow a goat!
I'm just kidding it's all good.
For me when I think of brute strength I think of people lifting enourmous weights with the bar. It doesn't make sense to me if you alter for the easier version when you have the means to do otherwise. It's like all of those fat chicks on the machine that only go 3 miles per hour for 10 minutes!
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That's fine Dante. If you say natural al knows your program best then who am I to argue. I do respect what natural al says but he has a little attitude to himself.
Natural al go blow a goat!
I'm just kidding it's all good.
For me when I think of brute strength I think of people lifting enourmous weights with the bar. It doesn't make sense to me if you alter for the easier version when you have the means to do otherwise. It's like all of those fat chicks on the machine that only go 3 miles per hour for 10 minutes!
it's just a different mindset and it is hard to stop thinking in terms of "free weights only". I almost did one of those 500 word submissions on MD talking about the old "free weight only" stigma that exists with some people.
Machines still take a beating from the old days when they sucked now they're alot better....I'm not saying they're better than free wieghts but I dont' roll my eyes when someone says they can move this much weight on a machine.
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first day of the new blast...man I kicked my own ass today, started with bi's then forearms then back width and thickness. Funniest thing was doing my pulldowns, there were 2 dudes doing pulldowns with 50lbs and I walked over and started repping with 220. Anyway it was a brutal workout. If everything goes as planned I'm gonna be doing the natural michigan or a show like it at the end of the year.
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first day of the new blast...man I kicked my own ass today, started with bi's then forearms then back width and thickness. Funniest thing was doing my pulldowns, there were 2 dudes doing pulldowns with 50lbs and I walked over and started repping with 220. Anyway it was a brutal workout. If everything goes as planned I'm gonna be doing the natural michigan or a show like it at the end of the year.
Hey bro can i ask y u did bi's before back??
davie
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Hey bro can i ask y u did bi's before back??
davie
right now, no. the only reason I changed that aspect of the split is that my wrists are not in the best of shape so my grip is terrible. I got slammed in a really awkward way when I wrestled and it messed up both wrists, even with straps my grip still sucks. I just can't train bi's and forearms before back right now. maybe it'll change in the future but right now it's width, thickness, bi's and then forearms...I also did abs. I'm looking into a different type of strap that might help me out but "regular" straps just don't do enough...
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I'm also gonna be doing 2 types of deadlifts for this blast, one will be a "high rack dead" with the pins set right at knee level and the other will be deads off the floor, both types I'm going to concentrate on pulling up and back at the top to really nail my traps. I started off a little light so I could get the feel for these but I'm really gonna pile the weight on over the course of the next few weeks.
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Oh u do back then bis?!
The way i read ur routine it sed bis then back, thats y i asked.
davie
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Oh u do back then bis?!
The way i read ur routine it sed bis then back, thats y i asked.
davie
the more advanced split is bi's, forearms, width and then thickness. Due to the wrist/grip issues I have I don't think I could do it that way so I "modified" that aspect of the split, usually I stay textbook with whatever DC recommends but I honestly don't think I could grip the bar if I did foreams first....my grip just sucks ass.
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the more advanced split is bi's, forearms, width and then thickness. Due to the wrist/grip issues I have I don't think I could do it that way so I "modified" that aspect of the split, usually I stay textbook with whatever DC recommends but I honestly don't think I could grip the bar if I did foreams first....my grip just sucks ass.
I understand what ur saying about not so good grip. Im kinda the same. I have changed to double overhand grip with deads instead of one over one under (to try protect biceps) recently and iv had to drop weight downa bit as my grip isnt that great now.
Its also my grip that gives out 1st in shrugs too, so im thinking of getting straps.
I was geven straps once that u only put ur thumb through before wrapping it arounf bar and wrist, ever heard of them??
davie
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I understand what ur saying about not so good grip. Im kinda the same. I have changed to double overhand grip with deads instead of one over one under (to try protect biceps) recently and iv had to drop weight downa bit as my grip isnt that great now.
Its also my grip that gives out 1st in shrugs too, so im thinking of getting straps.
I was geven straps once that u only put ur thumb through before wrapping it arounf bar and wrist, ever heard of them??
davie
I've never heard of those...I know they used to sell actual hooks that went with wrist straps...I don't know if they still do
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I've never heard of those...I know they used to sell actual hooks that went with wrist straps...I don't know if they still do
These ones are weird, i mean u literally just put thumb through, then put them unders the bar and then around ur hole wrist b4 wrapping whats left around the abr again, iv never really used them but am going to on back/shoulder/traps day on monday.
guess u can always use grippers to strengthen grip, mine arent to hard to close so i use 3 fingers and thumb, then 2 fingers and thumb and get as many as i can.
davie
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These ones are weird, i mean u literally just put thumb through, then put them unders the bar and then around ur hole wrist b4 wrapping whats left around the abr again, iv never really used them but am going to on back/shoulder/traps day on monday.
guess u can always use grippers to strengthen grip, mine arent to hard to close so i use 3 fingers and thumb, then 2 fingers and thumb and get as many as i can.
davie
I've got actual wrist problems so grippers don't really help, they just aggrivate the wrist, might be a problem with the tendons, I don't know I never had it looked at.
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just got back from chest, shoulders and tri's...I moved some heavy ass weight today..I can't wait to see what I'm moving at the end of this blast. BF% is down also, viens are coming in especially in the forearms and bi's, the waist is down and abs are becoming more visable.
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my opinion? Whatever tools you use to accomplish the job is fine with me. I think you guys are arguing over something that doesnt need to be argued over. If Skippy loves squats and Horace loves hacks and they both have built great legs, does it really matter?
My preference? Whatever you have to use to progressively rest pause SAFELY on. If you have a training partner then I say bomb away with free weight inclines with a barbell, you dont have to worry about getting stuck, he will save you every time during your rest pauses. If you dont have a training partner I would much rather see you on an incline smythe machine than be caught with 315lbs on a free weight barbell guillotine yelling "HELP!" when you tried to go for that extra rep and it wasnt in the cards that day.
"Dante intended his trainees to train hard not half asses machine work.
That's for backing up my point. It clearly says that Dante prefers freeweights over machines but because his trainees cannot do them safely them must alter for the easy baby version."
Take that Alexx. So, are Smith Machines still for pussies and babies?
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I got a PM from a guy named mar10...I tied to respond but it said you had my response blocked. If you read this post, I didn't blow you off and I'll respond to it later this weekend on this thread, I typed the whole thing out and then it told me I was blocked, I don't have time to retype it right now.
edit-here's a good link to check out:
http://timwescott.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=Talk&action=display&thread=1101334382&page=1
everything in-humans says is gold. You can also check out intensemuscle.com, lots fo guys over there know thier shit...but, if you're gonna post a question post it in the pound puppy section to avoid getting ripped on.
after you check out those sites if you have any questions post them here and I'll do my best to help ya out, if I don't know I' sure I can find out for ya.
if you're really eager do a search for the old "dogg logg" on google, you might find it you might not, I've read and reread that thing about 50 times, it's a good read and everything is laid out there reall well.
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"Dante intended his trainees to train hard not half asses machine work.
That's for backing up my point. It clearly says that Dante prefers freeweights over machines but because his trainees cannot do them safely them must alter for the easy baby version."
Take that Alexx. So, are Smith Machines still for pussies and babies?
Yes you jackass! Dante has awesome chest development himself and I bet he built it up with freeweights!
It's like you are spoonfed! Machines are for little men so it is appropriate you use them.
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Yes you jackass! Dante has awesome chest development himself and I bet he built it up with freeweights!
It's like you are spoonfed! Machines are for little men so it is appropriate you use them.
despite having the funniest avatar on the site, I've got to say...
alexxx shut the fuck up.
no offense but it's getting old.
Thanks.
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despite having the funniest avatar on the site, I've got to say...
alexxx shut the f**k up.
no offense but it's getting old.
Thanks.
Judgin by your temper tentrums it is safe to say you also train chest on the machines.
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Judgin by your temper tentrums it is safe to say you also train chest on the machines.
alexxx, STFU. You're ruining this thread.
We all understood now that you are the only man on getbig, now go and play in the woods some more.
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I'm giving the training another go -- started yesterday. Same routine I posted earlier. We'll see how it goes.
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I'm giving the training another go -- started yesterday. Same routine I posted earlier. We'll see how it goes.
going by memory since I have to put the kids to bed tonight I don't have time to go back and reread it, the program looked good. If you worry about your trap development and youre doing rack deads or regular deads remember to pull your shoulders up and back at the top, this should keep your traps going in the right direction....
good luck.
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holy moly. That's a strong dude there, I watch some of his stuff when it gets posted but I honestly didn't think he was THAT strong. If he came to my gym and did that I think people would faint...very impressive. I'm almost speachless.....
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sweet leg workout today:
calfs-toe raise on the 45 degree leg press: 445*13 and then I did partial reps until i couldn't move the weight anymore, I think I got about 33 or so.
Hamstrings-Sumo Leg Press: 465*14 straight set, 20 partials (I'm trying these instead of statics for a couple of weeks) plus a 60 second stretch on each leg.
Quads-Leg Press: 880*8 plus a few partials at the end then I went over to this icarian leg press and did 33 nice slow reps with about 200lbs, feet together to bring out the sweep of the thigh. I'm just getting used to this leg press, I'm really gonna pile on the weight next rotation.
I did that at about 11 this morning nd it's 8:30 now and my legs are already throbbing....
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I didn't have alot of energy today for some reason, I've been doing cardio and that might have something to do with it but it's necessary for me to do it since I have asthma nad I get sick as a dog in the winter if I don't. Here's what I did, I'm doing something special for chest at the end of the workout that I don't really want to talk about, I promised I'd keep it top secret....let's just say my chest sucked and now it sucks a little less since starting this:
Chest-Hammer Flat Press 225lbs for 13RP plus a 60 second deep stretch, no static cause I couldn't lift the weights anymore
Shoulders-Icanrian Press 60*12-14RP, I do these one arm at a time, 12 with my left and 14 with my right, this is a wierd machine cause you press up and out so I can't handle anything gigantic on it....yet. Static and stretch at the end.
Tri's-Close Grip Bench on a smith: 255*13RP plus a 60 second stretch
and then I did my "special movement", I just didn't have any energy today....tomorrow is legs so I better be up for it, I'm pushing for some big numbers...
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This is how it went:
Calfs: 335*13 on a Hammer Calf Sled plus partials till I couldn't move it anymore. Calfs are sore as hell today, I've been blasting the ever loving shit out of them for awhile.
Hamtrings: Lying Leg Curl-165*14RP'd plus a static and a stretch for a minute.
Quads: V-Squat-435*15 Straight set. This isn't the hammer version and I don't like the way the platform is set up, it limits my range of motion to much so I think I might change to smith machine squats. If I do I'm gonna start really light to get my low back used to it again.
Then I did 20 reps on the Icarian leg press machine with 300lbs, this took me awhile and it was a killer.
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I'm giving this another try. Just finished 4th week, same routine I posted earlier.
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I'm giving this another try. Just finished 4th week, same routine I posted earlier.
and how's it going?
I went to the doctor and got weighed, came in at 209.5lbs at 5'7. The doctor said I was actually pretty lean at that weight but he still thought I was too heavy. I'm taking a couple od days off from training to get rid of a cough I have, I might do some light cardio on the treadmill and maybe some abs but that's it. Blast was going great up until now.
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Hey, you want to send me an XXXXL size T Shirt with " I'm a Pussy" written on it. I'll wear it when I train.
Hehe :) That was funny.
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Is that guy in the above you tube video, a fellow dogg crapper??
Iv thought about using the training method as in may ways its similar to how i train. Go until positive failure (probs looking for an 8 rep target b4 u fail 1st), rest/pause 10-20 seconds then go again. At that time i drop set and go until failure then go again after another rest/pause....You guys keep going until u reach set rep target.
Actually i just read over post iv had with natural al, and its more like shoot for 15 reps in 3 rp's then up weight, and drop rp'd target to 12 maybe.
Hows everyone finding it at the mo??
Although i obviously am trying to biuld everywer, i am working harder i think on shoulders and quads (rugby point of view).
davie
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Is that guy in the above you tube video, a fellow dogg crapper??
Iv thought about using the training method as in may ways its similar to how i train. Go until positive failure (probs looking for an 8 rep target b4 u fail 1st), rest/pause 10-20 seconds then go again. At that time i drop set and go until failure then go again after another rest/pause....You guys keep going until u reach set rep target.
Actually i just read over post iv had with natural al, and its more like shoot for 15 reps in 3 rp's then up weight, and drop rp'd target to 12 maybe.
Hows everyone finding it at the mo??
Although i obviously am trying to biuld everywer, i am working harder i think on shoulders and quads (rugby point of view).
davie
rep ranges can vary depending on what your doing. Generally you keep them at 12-15 reps but are always trying to beat your old weight or rep total so if you get 12 reps on movement A during your first cycle you might keep the weight the same and shoot for 15 reps next time.
I try not to go under 12 reps for anything with 3 RP sets, if I can't get at least 12 I've over shot the weight. Legs and some back thickness movements are handled a little different.
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Il get on here later AL, and post routine and u guys (natural al,alexx etc) can give it a look over??
All that arguments b4 is actually daft, b/c wen it comes down to it ur both using the same routine and love it, one of u trains alone so prefers the safety of smith machine, and the other (from my understanding) doesnt train alone and so uses more free weights.
Your energy should be saved to encourage others to try dogg crap, not bad mouthing a fellow dogg crapper, who for all intensive purposes is doing the same as urself.
davie
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So im right in thinking the split looks like this:
monday=chest, shoulders, triceps, back width, back thickness
wednesday=biceps, forearms, calves, hamstrings, quads
friday-repeat of mondays bodyparts
monday-repeat of wenesdays bodyparts.
Chest:
incline smythe press (11-15rp)
hammer strength press (11-15rp)
decline barbell press (11-15rp)
Backwidth:
front rack chins (11-20rp)
close grip pulldowns (11-15rp)
front pulldowns (11-15rp)
Backthickness: (back thickness exercises and quad exercises arent rest paused due to safety reasons of fatigue and loss of form)
deadlifts straight sets (6-9reps) + (9-12reps)
T-bar rows straight set (10-12 reps)
rack deadlifts (6-9reps) + (9-12reps)
Shoulders:
military presses (11-20rp)
hammer strength presses (11-15rp)
upright rows (11-20rp)
Quads: (quads are done again with no rest pause because of safety reasons, but after progressive warmups there is a heavy set and then what I call a "widowmaker set" for 20 reps with a still heavy, but lighter weight)
free squats (6-10 rep straight set) 3-5 minute rest and then (20 rep widowmaker)
hack squats (as above)
leg press (as above)
Hamstrings:
lying leg curls (15-30rp)
seated leg curls (15-30rp)
sumo press leg press (pressing with heels only- straight set of 15-25 reps)
Biceps:
preacher curls (11-20rp)
barbell drag curls (11-20rp)
dumbell curls (11-20rp)
Forearms:
pinwheel curls (straight set 10-20 reps)
hammer curls (straight set 10-20 reps)
reverse grip one arm cable curls (straight set 10-20 reps)
Triceps:
reverse grip bench presses (11-20rp)
close grip bench presses (11-20rp)
EZ bar tricep extentions (15-30rp) (elbow safety)
QUESTION....how many exercises do u do for chest, back width etc etc, per workout??
davie
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You got it Davie.
Here is a sample:
Day 1
barbell bench press -1 all out set of 8-15 reps rest paused
dumbell shoulder press - same
close grip bench - same
Rack chins - same
deadlifts - one set of 8-12 followed by a heavier set of 4-6 reps (straight)
Day 2
dumbell curls - 1 all out set of 8-15 RP
wrist curls - straight set of 15-20 reps
standing calf raises - 10-15 reps with a 5 second negative phase and a 15 seconds at the stretch position per rep
leg curls - 15-30 RP
Squats - 1 set of 6-10 1 set of 20 reps (straight)
Pick three exercises per muscle group and rotate them each workout. Do a stretch after each real set. (60seconds)
Before doing it you should probably take a week just to get in the grouve and do 15-20 reps per exercise. (not taxing)
This is called a cruising phase which you will need to take every 7-12 weeks.
Blasting phase is when you push yourself the hardess and make the growth spur.
Take that natural al!! hahaha
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Cheers alexx, funny seeing u do a low volume high frequency program wen i thought u loved mega volume?!
It does seem strange rotating between 3 exercise per body part all the time, b/c in theory that means that if i barbell bench on day one (monday), i wont then barbell bench again until monday 2 weeks later??!!
Im kind of having a cruising week this week, went kinda heavy on monday, didnt really do legs yesterday (still recovering from ankle ligament prob), and wont push it too hard on fri.
Even wen i go big guns on everythig next week, ill have to start slow on legs until im confident my ankles better!!
davie
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You got it Davie.
Here is a sample:
Day 1
barbell bench press -1 all out set of 8-15 reps rest paused
dumbell shoulder press - same
close grip bench - same
Rack chins - same
deadlifts - one set of 8-12 followed by a heavier set of 4-6 reps (straight)
Day 2
dumbell curls - 1 all out set of 8-15 RP
wrist curls - straight set of 15-20 reps
standing calf raises - 10-15 reps with a 5 second negative phase and a 15 seconds at the stretch position per rep
leg curls - 15-30 RP
Squats - 1 set of 6-10 1 set of 20 reps (straight)
Pick three exercises per muscle group and rotate them each workout. Do a stretch after each real set. (60seconds)
Before doing it you should probably take a week just to get in the grouve and do 15-20 reps per exercise. (not taxing)
This is called a cruising phase which you will need to take every 7-12 weeks.
Blasting phase is when you push yourself the hardess and make the growth spur.
Take that natural al!! hahaha
ok....the bolded area needs to be looked at. that's as far as I got after I saw the 'take that" part. 1st it's not recommended by DC to use the flat bench press. 2nd, most movements you do that are RP'd have a minimum number of reps that you shoot for, usually it's 12, if you go below 12 and especially are only hitting 8 your going to heavy and just asking for trouble, injury wise especially on this movement when training in this fashion.
sorry bout that.
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Ok AL, thanks for the reply, need the info bro.
Can i ask y u cant do flat BB bench?? (i dont have smith machine access by the way).
I understand what u mean about rep numbers (im sure alexx does to). I know the minimum is 3 attempts to make 12 reps, preferably shooting for 15 reps rps'd.
davie
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Ok AL, thanks for the reply, need the info bro.
Can i ask y u cant do flat BB bench?? (i dont have smith machine access by the way).
I understand what u mean about rep numbers (im sure alexx does to). I know the minimum is 3 attempts to make 12 reps, preferably shooting for 15 reps rps'd.
davie
people who have benched using this program usually run into one or more of the following problems:
shoulder pain
pec strain or tear
pain in the bi
the negatives outweigh the positives in this case. Another thing you might want to think about is the simple fact that using dB's for pressing movements usually ends up being counter productive. Once I got really heavy it was too much of a hassle to get the DB's up and into position and doing it 3 times while keeping rest periods short was next to impossible.
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OK....so if ur saying i shouldnt do flat bench what should i replace it with (no smith).
If i have a spotter is it ok to do incline db/BB....decline db/BB etc??
davie
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OK....so if ur saying i shouldnt do flat bench what should i replace it with (no smith).
If i have a spotter is it ok to do incline db/BB....decline db/BB etc??
davie
inclines and declines are fine...flats place the body in a position that is frowned upon by most DC guys. If you have someone to help you with the DB's go for it and give it a shot and see what happens, it might work. You'll never know until you try. I did it myself so it was a pain in the ass.
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inclines and declines are fine...flats place the body in a position that is frowned upon by most DC guys. If you have someone to help you with the DB's go for it and give it a shot and see what happens, it might work. You'll never know until you try. I did it myself so it was a pain in the ass.
Yeh by urself is annoying, it takes alot of strength just to role back and get that 1st rep up?!
I might do slight incline BB (at incline between flat and the normal incline angle.), incline DB, and decline DB.
DO u have to keep the exercis order? Id prefer to do shoulders 1st, then back then chest, kinda makes sense as if u do chest and shoulders back to back, the trris will get hammered and the 1st exercise will effect the 2nd, putting back in between will giv tris a wee rest?!
davie
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Yeh by urself is annoying, it takes alot of strength just to role back and get that 1st rep up?!
I might do slight incline BB (at incline between flat and the normal incline angle.), incline DB, and decline DB.
DO u have to keep the exercis order? Id prefer to do shoulders 1st, then back then chest, kinda makes sense as if u do chest and shoulders back to back, the trris will get hammered and the 1st exercise will effect the 2nd, putting back in between will giv tris a wee rest?!
davie
when I got up to the 120's on inclines and flat's my right arm dragged real bad when I tried to get into position, don't know why and I couldn't fix it for some reason. The 130's were almost impossible.
I've experimented with doing chest, back width, shoulders, back thickness and tri's in that order but I always go back to the regular split and set up. I don't "suppose" it would hurt to give it a shot but I'd do chest before shoulders never in the reverse order.
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Even if shoulders is a part im wanting to focus on??
davie
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ALSO, do any of u use rack chins, my gym doesnt have chinning bar, and this si probs only way i could do it (kinda like that fella WOJO). BAck an incline bench near the squat rack (highest point nearest squat rack), and put my feet on that so my ass is the closest part to the ground and then do chins wi Db on lap. Are these effective??
davie
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Even if shoulders is a part im wanting to focus on??
davie
hmmmmmm.......I don't know. You gotta do what you gotta do, if your shoulders suck or you want to focus on them then what the hell? Why not. DC is prolly gonna kill me for saying that so I'll put this disclaimer on it: The program is set up like this for a reason, stick with it cause it works, once you start changing to many things your not doing DC anymore.
I would say do at least 1 blast as it's supposed to be done, chest-shoulders-tris-back width and then thickness. After one good blast re-assess it and go from there. The program works, trust me but if you still have a weak BP look at what exactly your doing before you start changing the routine around.
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hmmmmmm.......I don't know. You gotta do what you gotta do, if your shoulders suck or you want to focus on them then what the hell? Why not. DC is prolly gonna kill me for saying that so I'll put this disclaimer on it: The program is set up like this for a reason, stick with it cause it works, once you start changing to many things your not doing DC anymore.
I would say do at least 1 blast as it's supposed to be done, chest-shoulders-tris-back width and then thickness. After one good blast re-assess it and go from there. The program works, trust me but if you still have a weak BP look at what exactly your doing before you start changing the routine around.
Yeh i guess. And i suppose that even if i do Db inclines 1st, i dont suppose that will effect my Military press etc for my shoulders??!!
Any opinions on rack chins?
davie
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Yeh i guess. And i suppose that even if i do Db inclines 1st, i dont suppose that will effect my Military press etc for my shoulders??!!
Any opinions on rack chins?
davie
I don't do rack chins since I train alone....some guys do and I guess I could but I want to be in and out so my routine is kinda tailored for me to get in and out of the gym pretty quick. There is a specific way to do them, go to intensemuscle.com and look them up, there's good explanations of stuff on that site.
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Cheers alexx, funny seeing u do a low volume high frequency program wen i thought u loved mega volume?!
It does seem strange rotating between 3 exercise per body part all the time, b/c in theory that means that if i barbell bench on day one (monday), i wont then barbell bench again until monday 2 weeks later??!!
Im kind of having a cruising week this week, went kinda heavy on monday, didnt really do legs yesterday (still recovering from ankle ligament prob), and wont push it too hard on fri.
Even wen i go big guns on everythig next week, ill have to start slow on legs until im confident my ankles better!!
davie
I am not doing DC at the momment but have done it with great success and am considering getting back into it.
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people who have benched using this program usually run into one or more of the following problems:
shoulder pain
pec strain or tear
pain in the bi
the negatives outweigh the positives in this case. Another thing you might want to think about is the simple fact that using dB's for pressing movements usually ends up being counter productive. Once I got really heavy it was too much of a hassle to get the DB's up and into position and doing it 3 times while keeping rest periods short was next to impossible.
You will have all of the above if you do not know how to bench press properly. To build a real chest you must look at the how the best chests where built.
FLAT BENCH PRESS
I was dong bench press with the DC program going down to 5 reps then another RP by myself and had amazing results. The trick is to warm it up properly.
Again I cannot speak for Dante and I know he hates it when I bring up the flat bench press. ;D
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RACK CHINS
Back Width: With all width movements rest paused I like front pull downs to the chin, rear pull downs to the mid-ear level (no lower), gravitron chins (the air compressor one with the platform), hammer under grip pull downs, and rack chins. Rack chins: Find the widest smythe machine you can (or barbell in a squat rack) and put a bench in front of it- put the bar about shoulder height- use wrist straps and put your grip as wide as comfortably possible-put your heels up on the bench but cross your legs to take them out of the movement- your legs should almost be straight but not quite- now do chins explosively up and 8 seconds down until the full stretch- any rep that your chin doesn’t either go over the bar or hit the bar doesn’t count! Do one warm-up set and then have someone put a fixed plate barbell (like used for barbell curls) in your lap. On every rest pause the spotter grabs the barbell off the chinners lap and the chinner stands up and counts his 15 deep breaths (and he stays strapped up to the bar). Then the chinner gets back into position after 15 deep breaths and the spotter puts the barbell back on the chinners lap. I want one warm-up straight set with no added weight done for 10-12 reps and then one all out rest pause set for 15 to 20 reps with added weight (use a 30lb barbell this first time out), then 10-30 short range static reps at the end. These are going to be excruciating and tomorrow your lats are going to be killing you.This exercise is my lat width pronto exercise.
You can rig this up where you don’t need a spotter. I’ve done this before by putting my weight belt really loose around me and putting a 35lb plate down the back of it with a short chain, or you can rig up some benches where you can get that barbell off your lap but it’s much easier if you can get someone to help you for the one working rest pause set. You need to really push the stretch down the bottom and then try to explode up to the bar on every rep
I might start doing these using the belt to support the weight, don't know yet. Right now I'm doing underhand pulldowns-I use a tricep pushdown bar-the angle lets my wrists stay in a more nutreal position, pionter finger is "higher" up than the pinky finger, when I use a straight bar my forearms and grip give out before my back does. I use a hammer pulldown machine and I do nutreal grip pulldowns. I'm close to maxing out on a couple of movements so rack chins might be thrown into the rotation, my lats are actually kinda high, wide but high so this might help that situation.
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Sounds good bro. Thanks for link. im gonna try them on monday i think, as my 1st width movement.
Only prob i might run into with my gyms squat rack is that, there is a low bar (attaching one side to the other), that might hit my ass at trhe lowest part of the movement, but il try and see, excited to get started (+just got more powder, so im almost set).
Was gonna ask, did anyone else not find it a tiny bit weird that u rotate between 3 diff exercised each workout per body part, like i sed b4, if i incline Db press wen i go in on monday, i wont be incline Db pressing until monday 2 weeks later??
Thought that might make it harder to keep things progressing, no?!
davie
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Also natural al, whats ur take on special dogg crapp dieting??
Do u use carb cut-offs etc??
davie
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Guys - this looks good and I'd like to try it - is there a one stop place for someone who wants to set up a DC training routine?
A sticky withthe basics?
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Guys - this looks good and I'd like to try it - is there a one stop place for someone who wants to set up a DC training routine?
A sticky withthe basics?
you can try the dog pound over at Intensemuscle.com. They have a ton of information over there and they have a "pound puppy" section for newbies. it's a good site, I don't post there that much cause most people know thier shit really well and by the time I'm gonna weigh in on a topic there's already 10 good responses. Lots of really knowledgable guys there.
You could do a search using google for "the dog log" or "the dogg logg", I can't remember which one it's under, that's really good. Try a forum called "weights on the web", they've got a really good thread on it.
http://timwescott.proboards18.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=Talk&thread=1101334382&page=5
try that, start at page one and read everything "inhuman" says, he knows his shit.
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Hey guys i just joined this site yesterday and I need some advice. I had been working out religiously for about 6years, I did a cycles of Winni about 3 years ago, I was in good shape (5'10 ,214, 12% BF). Due to med schools intense hours I have not been able to workout for about 5 months, I also wasn't getting adequate sleep or eat the proper foods at the proper time, so I'm now (215lbs, I would say about 20% BF). I Finished my first year of med school 2 weeks ago, and now have the time to get back into things. I've been out of the bodybuilding loop for awhile so I was wondering if you guys knew of any good supplements that cause for some nice muscle gains, oh ya I don't want to do another cycle. So, I'll tell you what I'm currently taking and you tell me what to get rid of and what to add.
I drink anywhere from 2 to 4 liters of water during my day.
7am-- Gasparian Pump 250( 2scoops) , Novex Biotech Endothil-CR
7:15-- Nitrotech Protein Shake
7:45-- Workout
9am-- Muscletech Protein shake with a Gatorade
11:30-- Tuna Salad (30-35g protein), 1 red apple,1 orange, 1 GNC multi vit, two 600mg L-glutamine capsules, 1000mg CLA
2:30pm-- Tuna Salad (30-35g protein), brown rice or wheat pasta (one and a half cups)
5:30-- Chicken Breast (30-35g protein),one serving of fruit, two 600mg L-glutamine capsules, 1000mg CLA
8:30-- Chicken or Turkey Breast (30-35g protein), a cup of veggies
10:30-- 1-3 mile jog every other day, it's not an intense jog, I try to keep it at a slow pace ( 9- 11 minutes a mile)
11:10--2 cups nonfat milk or 1 cup nonfat milk mixed with 20 grams whey protein,1 GNC multi vit,two 600mg L-glutamine capsules, 1000mg CLA, 2 tablets GNC ZMA
11:30-- In bed
Thanks
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Go to the nutrition board!!
davie
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Was just thining about sum of my exercicse choices that im going to use once i stall on an exercise.
Was thinking that u could use movements like hang clean and press in DC rest/pause style, as u could with high pulls, mayb cleans.
Interesting.
ALSO, as im recovering from ankle injury and dont wanna stop all cardio in off-season.....im gonna do a little interval work on tuesdays and thursdays, only about 5-10 mins.
Was also wandering if u think skipping was ok option. i know skipping quite good for calves and as part of my ankle rehabbibg im doing things to strengthen ankle and surrounding area.
I know DC calf trainin has u working them once one week and twice the next week. But do u think its also ok that wether its a once session calf week or a 2 session calf week that i also do skipping for about 5 mins on tuesday and thursdays??
Wont be counter productive to my DC calf work?
davie
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Was just thining about sum of my exercicse choices that im going to use once i stall on an exercise.
Was thinking that u could use movements like hang clean and press in DC rest/pause style, as u could with high pulls, mayb cleans.
Interesting.
ALSO, as im recovering from ankle injury and dont wanna stop all cardio in off-season.....im gonna do a little interval work on tuesdays and thursdays, only about 5-10 mins.
Was also wandering if u think skipping was ok option. i know skipping quite good for calves and as part of my ankle rehabbibg im doing things to strengthen ankle and surrounding area.
I know DC calf trainin has u working them once one week and twice the next week. But do u think its also ok that wether its a once session calf week or a 2 session calf week that i also do skipping for about 5 mins on tuesday and thursdays??
Wont be counter productive to my DC calf work?
davie
I don't think it would hurt your calf's to do some skipping, I do a little rope skipping from time to time for cardio and it has not effected my calfs at all. keep an eye on it and if you start to loose poundages or intesity when doing calfs make an adjustement from there.
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have any of you read heavy duty 1 or 2 by a guy called mike mentzer?
reading the doggcrapp protocol is like reading mikes books, they are so similar i think if mike were alive he would be sueing mr crapp for plagerism.
it may have increased frequency and a slight periodization setup, with the changing of exercises once the subject stalls, but if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its a duck ! :)
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have any of you read heavy duty 1 or 2 by a guy called mike mentzer?
reading the doggcrapp protocol is like reading mikes books, they are so similar i think if mike were alive he would be sueing mr crapp for plagerism.
it may have increased frequency and a slight periodization setup, with the changing of exercises once the subject stalls, but if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its a duck ! :)
Who is this mentzer guy?? Never heard of him... ::) ::)
BTW, i don't give a flying shit about who has wrote a training program, if i like it i do it.
Or are you one of the guys that wears a training t-shirt with the name of his program for workout??
"Doggcrapp"
"I'm a HITter"
"Hypertrophy Specific Training on board"
"Volume up!"
::) ::)
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Who is this mentzer guy?? Never heard of him... ::) ::)
BTW, i don't give a flying shit about who has wrote a training program, if i like it i do it.
Or are you one of the guys that wears a training t-shirt with the name of his program for workout??
"Doggcrapp"
"I'm a HITter"
"Hypertrophy Specific Training on board"
"Volume up!"
::) ::)
No i'm not one of those guys, i'm the kind of guy that wears whatever fits me while working out. ;)
i simply think its unethical not to give props to mentzer, since its mentzers program that dc is claiming as his own, simply because he added stretching, and a change of excercises.
but yes i agree it works.
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have any of you read heavy duty 1 or 2 by a guy called mike mentzer?
reading the doggcrapp protocol is like reading mikes books, they are so similar i think if mike were alive he would be sueing mr crapp for plagerism.
it may have increased frequency and a slight periodization setup, with the changing of exercises once the subject stalls, but if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, its a duck ! :)
how did metzer have his clients do rest pause? it was max. weight for 1 rep, wait 10 seconds max weight again for 1 rep until failure, then I think he stripped weight off and you started the process over.
did mike have his guys doing multi rep rest pause sets? Was it limited to 3 rest pause sets? did he have a different training technique for legs and back?
I'll never put mike down cause I love reading his stuff but if I had to say something bad it would be that "joe average" gym guy even with a few years under his belt could NOT use his techniques for extended periods of time and make great games, it takes along time for someone to learn how to do 1 all out set and use Mike's techniques and get out of it what Mike could...
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i agree the rest pause was done differently, but the basics are the same
1 straight set each bodypart - mentzer
also dc recommends straight sets for some people, (naturals, or low recovery ability, or was it to see how they respond at first)
statics after failure - also mentzer
stretching after the workout - mentzer
increase weight = increase muscle - mentzer
bodyparts hit on certain days - same
frequency of dc is the same as early mentzer ( pre hd2)
i agree dc is a good program, but i think it is too similar to HD/HIT to deny it is not like he does.
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i agree the rest pause was done differently, but the basics are the same
1 straight set each bodypart - mentzer
also dc recommends straight sets for some people, (naturals, or low recovery ability, or was it to see how they respond at first)
statics after failure - also mentzer
stretching after the workout - mentzer
increase weight = increase muscle - mentzer
bodyparts hit on certain days - same
frequency of dc is the same as early mentzer ( pre hd2)
i agree dc is a good program, but i think it is too similar to HD/HIT to deny it is not like he does.
it's not always one set for each BP, for the most part it is but not always, back thickness is usually handled with one heavy as you can go set for 4-6 reps followed by another with slighty lighter weight for 9-12 reps, quads are handled in a similar fashion, 1 ultra heavy set for 4-6 reps followed by a "widowmaker" movement, which will remain constant following every quad workout but the weight for the WM will increase. So you might do squats, leg press and leg press for your 3 movements but after each workout you'll go over to the hack squat and do a set of 20 with the weight being bumped up each time so you progress very quickly.
there are alot of other differences, did he use some of mike's theories, I don't know but there are tons of programs out there that were built by previous opinions on training, nothing wrong with taking a theory and putting a different spin on it, 80% of his stuff in regards to training theory is out there for free...
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i believe in a universal law of building muscle, ala mentzer.
i do not agree with 'dc is not for beginners', or some body parts need 2 sets or 3- why? (safety wise i understand - but not from muscle/strength building point of view).
however a good system builds muscle in everyone, beginner, and experienced lifter alike, and should be safe in all movements - so 2 straight sets in case of injury is silly imho.
al how do you judge how much weight you drop to when replacing a maxed out movement with another. is there a 20% drop or some other scientific measurement you shoot for or is it just by feel?
i was doing 100lbs db presses, then got a shoulder injury, so i took 2 weeks off. when i went back i changed the movement, and i thought i should have been in the ball park of 100lbs, but i had to drop it to 75lbs. this bothered me. i'm working back up now but shoulder is still bothering me.
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i believe in a universal law of building muscle, ala mentzer.
i do not agree with 'dc is not for beginners', or some body parts need 2 sets or 3- why? (safety wise i understand - but not from muscle/strength building point of view).
however a good system builds muscle in everyone, beginner, and experienced lifter alike, and should be safe in all movements - so 2 straight sets in case of injury is silly imho.
al how do you judge how much weight you drop to when replacing a maxed out movement with another. is there a 20% drop or some other scientific measurement you shoot for or is it just by feel?
i was doing 100lbs db presses, then got a shoulder injury, so i took 2 weeks off. when i went back i changed the movement, and i thought i should have been in the ball park of 100lbs, but i had to drop it to 75lbs. this bothered me. i'm working back up now but shoulder is still bothering me.
I'll only comment on one statement-DC training is not for beginners-
9 times out of 10 a beginner doesn't really know how to train, he might be going in and think he's busting is ass but for the most part training hard is something you learn, it's never a given. If a beginner was to jump right into DC there is no way he could grasp all of the concepts and use them in an effective manner. This is the same reason alot of people fail when they decide to train HIT cause they might think they understand the concepts but to actually train hard enough to get the most out of the program is another story. YOu have to learn what works for you're body and just saying do 1 set with your heaviest weight to failure is pretty easy sounding but once you actually set out to do it a beginner might be using say 50% of the weight he could be using simply cause he doesn't understand what that statement actually means.
I thought I trained hard 10 years ago but I know for a fact that I would destroy myself if I knew then what I know now and if I trained as hard as I do today using alot of DC's principles I'd be alot better off.
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i dont think 1 set to failure is hard to understand? even for a beginner.
failure is failure, if its a 10 rm or a 5rm.
yes they may not push truely into absolute failure, but they will get close enough. didn't you when you started?
why wont you answer the changing of excercises question? i'm honestly curious.
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i dont think 1 set to failure is hard to understand? even for a beginner.
failure is failure, if its a 10 rm or a 5rm.
yes they may not push truely into absolute failure, but they will get close enough. didn't you when you started?
why wont you answer the changing of excercises question? i'm honestly curious.
what was the question again? I'm busy as hell right now and I can't go back and reread stuff...honestly, I've got about 45 hours of work left to do this week.
If you think a newbie can use metzer's or even DC's theories on training and get all they can out of it and understand and utilize all the concepts than more power to ya, good luck getting a 16 or 17 year old kid to wrap his mind around doing one all out set to failure, nothing more and have him really understand how to do some of metzer's advanced training techniques like rest pause, hyper reps, static holds etc.
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they wont get all they can at first, that will come in time, but it will give them good enough. 1 straight set to failure that is, i wouldn't recommend they add statics, drops etc either not at first.
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i believe in a universal law of building muscle, ala mentzer.
i do not agree with 'dc is not for beginners', or some body parts need 2 sets or 3- why? (safety wise i understand - but not from muscle/strength building point of view).
however a good system builds muscle in everyone, beginner, and experienced lifter alike, and should be safe in all movements - so 2 straight sets in case of injury is silly imho.
al how do you judge how much weight you drop to when replacing a maxed out movement with another. is there a 20% drop or some other scientific measurement you shoot for or is it just by feel?
i was doing 100lbs db presses, then got a shoulder injury, so i took 2 weeks off. when i went back i changed the movement, and i thought i should have been in the ball park of 100lbs, but i had to drop it to 75lbs. this bothered me. i'm working back up now but shoulder is still bothering me.
I got a few minutes to answer your question. Right now I'm doing much higher reps than I've ever done before, my range is 20-30RP on almost everything. Back when I was doing a more "traditional" DC rep range of say 12-15 reps I would always be very careful when rotating in a new movement. I usually started pretty light for a couple of workouts to guage how I felt during the movement, I don't know if you ever looked at any of my other posts but I've got alot of non training related injuries that I have to work around, usually I can tell right away if a movement isn't gonna work for me. I don't have a set formula. I started a movement DC talked about over on IM it's a wide grip cable curl, I'd already maxed out on regular cable curls-150lbs for 18 reps rest paused. The way you set up for this new movement might have caused a problem for my low back so I went really light and the first time I got over 30 reps, I'm just now getting up to a good weight and it's been over a month.
I don't know if that answers your question but my mindset is start off light and get used to it and go from there.
BTW-Superman>The Hulk ;) ;)
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I don't know if that answers your question but my mindset is start off light and get used to it and go from there.
yes it does, thats what i have been doing too pretty much, still having this shoulder problem though. i just dont want to give up the dumbell presses, they are really working well. so i'll keep changing things till it goes away or i need to see an art guy.
BTW-Superman>The Hulk
>:( >:( >:( ;D
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yes it does, thats what i have been doing too pretty much, still having this shoulder problem though. i just dont want to give up the dumbell presses, they are really working well. so i'll keep changing things till it goes away or i need to see an art guy.
>:( >:( >:( ;D
if you're training DC, I'll give you one suggestion and it's a hard one to accept for alot of guys DB's pressing movements in general don't work out all that well, I'm a strong presser-at least I think I am and the work required to use DB's just got to be too much of a pain in the ass, once you hit a point it's a pain. I got up to the 120's on DB incline presses before I realized it, kick the wieght up, press it 6-8 times, drop it....12 deep breaths, pick em back up and inot position agian and go...it's a pain in the ass.
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if you're training DC, I'll give you one suggestion and it's a hard one to accept for alot of guys DB's pressing movements in general don't work out all that well, I'm a strong presser-at least I think I am and the work required to use DB's just got to be too much of a pain in the ass, once you hit a point it's a pain. I got up to the 120's on DB incline presses before I realized it, kick the wieght up, press it 6-8 times, drop it....12 deep breaths, pick em back up and inot position agian and go...it's a pain in the ass.
i'm not doing dc, however i like some of the principles of it.
i'm ecclectic in nature, and i like things from many systems. so i try to combine certain things, and if they work i stick with them.
i know what you mean about the db's though. i'm mainly doing straight sets with them.(changing rep ranges every workout)
i took a long layoff from training after i totally burnt out. 8 months or so off. but when i started back my strength was comming back very fast under my current system. i went from 50lbs db's to the 100's in 2 months, then got the shoulder injury thats driving me mad.