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Getbig Main Boards => General Topics => Topic started by: Al-Gebra on September 02, 2006, 04:09:12 PM

Title: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 02, 2006, 04:09:12 PM
This is all I got (From wikipedia):

Paranoia is an excessive anxiety or fear concerning one's own well-being which is considered irrational and excessive, perhaps to the point of being a psychosis. This typically includes persecutory beliefs concerning a likely threat, or a belief in a conspiracy theory. In the original Greek, παράνοια (paranoia) means simply madness (para = outside; nous = mind) and it is this use which was traditionally used in psychiatry to describe any delusional state. However, the exact use of the term has changed over time in medicine, and because of this, modern psychiatric usage may vary.

In popular culture paranoia is often represented as including:

    * Belief in having special powers or being on a special mission (a "delusion of grandeur")
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=91864.msg1325720#msg1325720
    * Conspiracy theories, such as seeing seemingly unrelated news events as parts of a larger, typically conspiratorial plan
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=91565.msg1326869#msg1326869
    * Exaggerated fear of terrorists, criminals or bandits
    * Black helicopters and other mass surveillance
    * Persecution from powerful adversaries such as UFOs, terrorists, the Men in Black, secret societies or demons
    * Paranoia or belief in conspiracy theories involving perceived political or social enemies (as in The Paranoid Style in American Politics by Richard Hofstadter)
    * Mind control through invisible rays, and tinfoil hats to combat them
    * Fear of poisoning, adulterated food (e.g., aspartame) or water (e.g., fluoridation) as part of a secret plot
    * Reading a story, watching a movie, or listening to a song and feeling that one's life is exactly like that of the subject of said story, movie, or song. The movie The Truman Show, which depicted a man who discovers his entire life has been filmed as a TV show, is one of the more commonly referenced films.
    * The maxim: Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't really out to get you.
    * Along the same vein: Even paranoids have enemies.
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: 24KT on September 02, 2006, 05:07:38 PM
An alternative definition of the paranoid could simply be: those individuals on the cutting edge of awareness, privileged with the ability to see the big picture, those seemingly superficial dots represent.

When we closely examine pixels or dots on a page, they're simply that; pixels & dots. However when we pull back, we're afforded a better vantage point through which the big picture emerges very clearly. Proper perspective is key. Some "paranoids" have it {whispering} ...and some are just CRAAAAZZY!   :P
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 05:21:33 PM
Causes and symptoms of groupthink
Janis's "antecedent conditions" likely to encourage groupthink:

High stress from external threats with low hope of a better solution than the one offered by the leader(s)
High group cohesiveness
The persuasive strength of the group's leader
His eight symptoms indicative of groupthink:

Illusion of invulnerability
Unquestioned belief in the inherent morality of the group
Collective rationalization of group's decisions
Shared stereotypes of outgroup, particularly opponents
Self-censorship; members withhold criticisms
Illusion of unanimity (see false consensus effect)
Direct pressure on dissenters to conform
Self-appointed "mindguards" protect the group from negative information
His seven symptoms of a decision affected by groupthink:

Incomplete survey of alternatives
Incomplete survey of objectives
Failure to examine risks of preferred choice
Failure to re-appraise initially rejected alternatives
Poor information search
Selective bias in processing information at hand (see also confirmation bias)
Failure to work out contingency plans
Social psychologist Clark McCauley's three conditions under which groupthink occurs:

Directive leadership
Homogeneity of members' social background and ideology
Insulation of the group from outside sources of information and analysis
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: Dos Equis on September 02, 2006, 05:48:15 PM

    * Conspiracy theories, such as seeing seemingly unrelated news events as parts of a larger, typically conspiratorial plan
 

Ouch.  240 didn't you imply that the arrest of alleged JonBenet killer was some kind of planned diversion? 



Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 05:55:10 PM
Ouch.  240 didn't you imply that the arrest of alleged JonBenet killer was some kind of planned diversion? 

I suggested the possibility.  I pointed out that the 911 truth movement was getting a lot of media attention in july.  Then we had the UK terror scare dominate the news.  Then as soon as there was no new news, this clown comes out of nowhere and confesses.  He is escoretd by homeland security - for some odd reason, the only available agency to help is the one that the executive branch built and directly controls. Then, 2 hours after he was cleared, they arrested this polygamist from Utah.  Just seems like as soon as one distractor ends, the next begins.

Beach bum, yes or no:  Do you believe that the govt has ever committed any self-attacks in order to further its agenda?
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: Hugo Chavez on September 02, 2006, 06:04:22 PM
Paranoid could also be used to describe someone who RAMS THEIR HEAD IN THE SAND IN FEAR OF SEEING A REALITY  THAT DISRUPTS THEIR UNDERSTANDING OF THE WORLD... 


"The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged.  And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it." yes I know it's just a movie, but that doesn't mean it's void of any meaning.  The Wachowski Brothers are very much commenting on our world with their movies.
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: Hugo Chavez on September 02, 2006, 06:07:49 PM
Ouch.  240 didn't you imply that the arrest of alleged JonBenet killer was some kind of planned diversion? 

Question everything... 8)
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: Hulkster on September 02, 2006, 06:11:07 PM
but use common sense first...
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: Hugo Chavez on September 02, 2006, 06:16:03 PM
but use common sense first...
and during the act... absolutely... I agree... Question everything does not mean to accept everything questioned.
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 06:18:31 PM
but use common sense first...

Common sense says when there's a plane crash, you find a plane.  
See: Pentagon.

Common sense says when America is under attack, the President gets to work.
See: President at elem. school from 9:02 til 9:30 after finding out.

Common sense says buildings do not fall from fire in freefall speed.
See:
WTC7 collapse.

Common sense says hijacked planes don't fly for 80 minuts unattended.
See: Flight 77.

Common sense says hijackers are on the planes they hijack.
See: Flight manifast for flight 77 - no arabs bought tickets, no arabs were autopsied.

Common sense says we cannot see the future.
See: The pentagon brass that all cancelled their 9/11 AM flights.

Common sense says you investigate a crime scene.
See: Guilliani shipping crime scene to China for recycling and not testing one piece of steel for chemical analysis.

Common sense says you investigate 4 plane crashes immediately.
See: Bush waited 18 months to start, and only did so because of intense media pressure.

If you use common sense, you really see some problems with the day's events.
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: Dos Equis on September 02, 2006, 06:28:51 PM
I suggested the possibility.  I pointed out that the 911 truth movement was getting a lot of media attention in july.  Then we had the UK terror scare dominate the news.  Then as soon as there was no new news, this clown comes out of nowhere and confesses.  He is escoretd by homeland security - for some odd reason, the only available agency to help is the one that the executive branch built and directly controls. Then, 2 hours after he was cleared, they arrested this polygamist from Utah.  Just seems like as soon as one distractor ends, the next begins.

Beach bum, yes or no:  Do you believe that the govt has ever committed any self-attacks in order to further its agenda?

What's a "self attack"? 
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: Hulkster on September 02, 2006, 06:29:05 PM
Quote
ommon sense says we cannot see the future.
See: The pentagon brass that all cancelled their 9/11 AM flights.

but see here is the problem with a lot of the stuff you have been posting lately.

Just because an event happens does not necessarily imply a cause that relates to a conspiracy theory.

for example: just because the pentagon members cancelled some flights does not necessarily mean that they knew 9/11 was about to occur that day, as you propose.

How do we know that a meeting was not called that morning, causing people to cancel their fligtts to attend?

or some other occurance?

The point I am getting at is that with a lot of this conspiracy stuff the events that happen are implied to be a direct result of some conspiracy plot, when in actual fact, there are a multitude of perfectly logical reasons for that particular event or action to occur.


Secondly, you have been completely ignoring evidence that dissproves a lot of what you say.

eg. "you have to find a plane"

well - they DID find parts of a plane, but then you insist that someone put wreckage there by hand out of the blue with no evidence to support it.

240, it sounds like no matter what contrary evidence you are presented with, you will always insist that 9/11 was an inside job.

no matter what.

Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 06:31:06 PM
please show me contrary evidence telling where this plane went.  how did it make a perfect 16-foot hole IN, and a perfect 16-foot hole out.  It's so obviously a missile man.

use common sense. Does this look like a missile hole, or look like a plane hole?
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 02, 2006, 06:34:54 PM




240, it sounds like no matter what contrary evidence you are presented with, you will always insist that 9/11 was an inside job.

no matter what.



so I confused . . . is that paranoia or groupthink that he has symptoms of?
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 02, 2006, 06:39:42 PM
please show me contrary evidence telling where this plane went.  how did it make a perfect 16-foot hole IN, and a perfect 16-foot hole out.  It's so obviously a missile man.

use common sense. Does this look like a missile hole, or look like a plane hole?

you're quite sick in the head, my friend. anyone can see in the pic you've so kindly supplied us with that the entry "hole" is far larger than the "exit." I don't know why i'm pointing this out to you . . . as banging my head on my dresser would probably be a more productive activity.
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 06:40:33 PM
I'm accused of being paranoid because I would like a new investigation to clear up the questions that 1/3 of Americans have about that day?

No.  I am curious, and worried that some people involved might still be on the loose.  Nothing at all wrong with that.  

Groupthink might involve thinking what everyone else thinks because anything outside of their norm is strange.  You could also be called a sheep for blindly following everything you are told by a little glowing box,without question.  
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: Hugo Chavez on September 02, 2006, 06:41:04 PM
yea with the plane in the pentagon... Isn't it a little strange that they completely reconstruct most of flight 800 which blew up over water, but they only have a relatively small pile parts with the pentagon crash?
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 06:41:41 PM
you're quite sick in the head, my friend. anyone can see in the pic you've so kindly supplied us with that the entry "hole" is far larger than the "exit." I don't know why i'm pointing this out to you . . . as banging my head on my dresser would probably be a more productive activity.

Dude, you are outright wrong.  Here are the first pics taken that day, before the roof collapsed 10 minutes later

(http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero14/missile/images4/impact1_477px.jpg)

16 foot in, 16 foot out.
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 06:43:40 PM
you're quite sick in the head, my friend. anyone can see in the pic you've so kindly supplied us with that the entry "hole" is far larger than the "exit." I don't know why i'm pointing this out to you . . . as banging my head on my dresser would probably be a more productive activity.


how about doing your damn research before accusing me of things?

There was a 16-foot hole when the pentagon was first hit.  In fact, CNN showed us live as the roof fell in shortly later.  The windows around the hole were intact, man. 

Do your research.  I have respect for your arguemnts, algebra... but you just don't have correct information in this case. 

16-foot hole in, 16-foot hole out.  This is a fact, docuemted by the govt and the media filming it.
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: Hugo Chavez on September 02, 2006, 06:52:25 PM
as banging my head on my dresser.
No... fucking please... Don't let us stop you... Go ahead... Get a fucking running start at it too ;)
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 02, 2006, 07:03:23 PM
for any non-delusional getbiggers who might click on this thread:

it's amusing how 240 and his ilk are being disowned by the 9/11 skeptics . . . just scroll down the page for a little bit. ;D

http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html

240, you're giving conspiracy theorists a bad name.
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 07:13:48 PM
for any non-delusional getbiggers who might click on this thread:

it's amusing how 240 and his ilk are being disowned by the 9/11 skeptics . . . just scroll down the page for a little bit. ;D

http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html

240, you're giving conspiracy theorists a bad name.

See what i mean?  You wre very very wrong about a fact.  You stated the hole was bigger.  I showed you photographic proof that the "IN" hole was very small, about 16 foot diameter.  Very hard to fit a 25-foot diameter fuselage into that hole. 

You didn't have information to explain it.  So you labeled me a nut.  Monster comeback.  no need for evidence... you've got namecalling!

And the link you gave used phrases like ". a flying saucer piloted by giant lizards from another planet" 


your website also says "In reality, the wings created a wide hole at the base of the building! "

Please, I beg of you, find me ONE photo of this "wide hole at the base of the building".

Al, I'm losing respect for your arguments.  I have facts and photographic evidence.  you have an insulting website which makes a claim that is outright wrong. 
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 07:15:32 PM
http://www.oilempire.us/pentagon.html


HAHAHA dude, your source is a shill company for the oil empire lol... monster self-ownage

(http://www.oilempire.us/graphics/oilempire-issues.jpg)
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 02, 2006, 07:21:20 PM

HAHAHA dude, your source is a shill company for the oil empire lol... monster self-ownage

(http://www.oilempire.us/graphics/oilempire-issues.jpg)

are your reading skills failing you . . . or are you in the final throes of paranoid delirium?

for non-delusional posters . . .

http://www.oilempire.us/oilempire.html
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 02, 2006, 07:22:36 PM
i'd say something about ownage . . . but this is too pathetic.
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 07:26:04 PM
You're using a highly politically motivated website to make your arguments.

I present politically neutral evidence. 

Your website has an agenda.
My only agenda is finding out the answers to teh unanswered Qs of 911.

Are you admitting you were wrong about the "in" hole at the pentagon? Have you yet figured out how a boeing was able to enter a 16-foot hole, completely disappear, yet still drill through 3 newly reinforced buildings?
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 07:56:13 PM
Here is what a Boeing 757 would look like.

(http://240fm.com/gb/how1.jpg)

Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 02, 2006, 08:43:24 PM
You're using a highly politically motivated website to make your arguments.

I present politically neutral evidence. 

Your website has an agenda.
My only agenda is finding out the answers to teh unanswered Qs of 911.

Are you admitting you were wrong about the "in" hole at the pentagon? Have you yet figured out how a boeing was able to enter a 16-foot hole, completely disappear, yet still drill through 3 newly reinforced buildings?

pray tell how their agenda--supplied in link in my last post--differs from yours? do you even know what you're trying to prove?

If you weren't deluded, you would see that they make the case you would like to make in far more coherent fashion than you do . . . and they're worried that paranoiacs like you are giving them a bad name.

don't try to excuse the fact that your delusions are inhibiting your reading comprehension. 
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: OzmO on September 02, 2006, 09:03:23 PM
Common sense says when there's a plane crash, you find a plane. 
See: Pentagon.

Common sense says when America is under attack, the President gets to work.
See: President at elem. school from 9:02 til 9:30 after finding out.

Common sense says buildings do not fall from fire in freefall speed.
See:
WTC7 collapse.

Common sense says hijacked planes don't fly for 80 minuts unattended.
See: Flight 77.

Common sense says hijackers are on the planes they hijack.
See: Flight manifast for flight 77 - no arabs bought tickets, no arabs were autopsied.

Common sense says we cannot see the future.
See: The pentagon brass that all cancelled their 9/11 AM flights.

Common sense says you investigate a crime scene.
See: Guilliani shipping crime scene to China for recycling and not testing one piece of steel for chemical analysis.

Common sense says you investigate 4 plane crashes immediately.
See: Bush waited 18 months to start, and only did so because of intense media pressure.

If you use common sense, you really see some problems with the day's events.

We've talked about this one....

See: Pentagon.

Then where did the poeple go?
Who killed them?
Where did the plane go then?
How many people from how many different companies and departments many of which are unrelated were needed to pull this off?  Make a plane and it's apssengers disappear?

Use common sense there.

See: President at elem. school from 9:02 til 9:30 after finding out.


It only suggests he knew about it and knew he wasn't in danger it does not suggest a military opp becuase of all the other inconsistacies.

See:
WTC7 collapse.


We are making assumptions based on incomplete information and we are all NOT even close to having any expertese on this.  Except A_Joker and we all know what he thinks.

See: Flight 77.

Common sense says yes if you have knowledge of the defense posture and protocol the day of the attack.  They were trained for defending an attack from an outward position.  If the planes were stationary then they would have got there in time but they were flying and that added to the time it took to get there which added to the confusion makes perfect sense.

See: Guilliani shipping crime scene to China for recycling and not testing one piece of steel for chemical analysis.

Who says one piece or pieces weren't tested and because of all the other crap chemicals and compounds from 100+ stories that crashed down drenched with plane fuel tha the test were inconclusinve and not mentioned yet? 

See: Bush waited 18 months to start, and only did so because of intense media pressure.


Common sense says he's playing CYA becuase of intellengence failures.

You still refuse to do it don;t you 240?  You won't piece together your conspriacy and test it will you?  You just point out inconsistancies which are a small part of a much larger picture and say it must be a military opp. 

And then you still keep talking about the pentagon plane but cannot provide a reasonalbe explaination of what would have had to happen to the plane and the poeple. 

You are not using you head. 

Can't you see .....  You are not being objective.








Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 09:13:53 PM
We've talked about this one....

See: Pentagon.

Then where did the poeple go?
Who killed them?
Where did the plane go then?
How many people from how many different companies and departments many of which are unrelated were needed to pull this off?  Make a plane and it's apssengers disappear?

Use common sense there.

See: President at elem. school from 9:02 til 9:30 after finding out.


It only suggests he knew about it and knew he wasn't in danger it does not suggest a military opp becuase of all the other inconsistacies.

See:
WTC7 collapse.


We are making assumptions based on incomplete information and we are all NOT even close to having any expertese on this.  Except A_Joker and we all know what he thinks.

See: Flight 77.

Common sense says yes if you have knowledge of the defense posture and protocol the day of the attack.  They were trained for defending an attack from an outward position.  If the planes were stationary then they would have got there in time but they were flying and that added to the time it took to get there which added to the confusion makes perfect sense.

See: Guilliani shipping crime scene to China for recycling and not testing one piece of steel for chemical analysis.

Who says one piece or pieces weren't tested and because of all the other crap chemicals and compounds from 100+ stories that crashed down drenched with plane fuel tha the test were inconclusinve and not mentioned yet? 

See: Bush waited 18 months to start, and only did so because of intense media pressure.


Common sense says he's playing CYA becuase of intellengence failures.

You still refuse to do it don;t you 240?  You won't piece together your conspriacy and test it will you?  You just point out inconsistancies which are a small part of a much larger picture and say it must be a military opp. 

And then you still keep talking about the pentagon plane but cannot provide a reasonalbe explaination of what would have had to happen to the plane and the poeple. 

You are not using you head. 

Can't you see .....  You are not being objective.


Pentagon - there is no way I'd know where the plane or bodies went - the burden of proof is on the govt to supply evidence of their claims.  My only claim is that a plane didn't hit the pentagon. 

(http://flashrob.com/p.gif)
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 09:17:41 PM
See: Pentagon.
Then where did the poeple go?
Who killed them?
Where did the plane go then?
How many people from how many different companies and departments many of which are unrelated were needed to pull this off?  Make a plane and it's apssengers disappear?
Use common sense there.


ok, point-by-point -
People are in the ground somewhere, and some of them were in on it.  The pentagon pilot happened to be in on pentagon crash landing scenario planning WHILE HE WORKED THERE.  Funny coincidence he takes a job with an airliner and that exact thing happens.

To make this happen - you need control over the FAA (which admits they destroyed recordings specific to flight 77 because 'the operators were under distress and their words weren't in their right mind'.) and you need a small group on the ground to sort, handcuff, and deal with the peolpe.  Million ways to make 60 people disappear when you have unlimited budget.
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: OzmO on September 02, 2006, 09:19:27 PM

Pentagon - there is no way I'd know where the plane or bodies went - the burden of proof is on the govt to supply evidence of their claims.  My only claim is that a plane didn't hit the pentagon. 

(http://flashrob.com/p.gif)


240 that's a cop out , you should be able to make a reasonable explanation.  Becuase if you can't the obvious answer is most likey true.   It's like a crime scene, they furmulate a theory and prove it by finding facts outside the crime to support it.  They find the get away car or the plane ticket of the murderer etc...
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 09:20:35 PM

See: President at elem. school from 9:02 til 9:30 after finding out.


It only suggests he knew about it and knew he wasn't in danger it does not suggest a military opp becuase of all the other inconsistacies.

how would he know he's not in danger?  Why did EVERY OTHER PERSON on all levels of his staff get rushed to protective custody and no one even stood closer to him or acted any differently?  SS Protocol has precedence over Bush's wishes in security situations.

Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: OzmO on September 02, 2006, 09:21:05 PM
ok, point-by-point -
People are in the ground somewhere, and some of them were in on it.  The pentagon pilot happened to be in on pentagon crash landing scenario planning WHILE HE WORKED THERE.  Funny coincidence he takes a job with an airliner and that exact thing happens.

To make this happen - you need control over the FAA (which admits they destroyed recordings specific to flight 77 because 'the operators were under distress and their words weren't in their right mind'.) and you need a small group on the ground to sort, handcuff, and deal with the peolpe.  Million ways to make 60 people disappear when you have unlimited budget.



Many more popele than that would have to be involve....we have already discussed this...remember?
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: OzmO on September 02, 2006, 09:22:40 PM
how would he know he's not in danger?  Why did EVERY OTHER PERSON on all levels of his staff get rushed to protective custody and no one even stood closer to him or acted any differently?  SS Protocol has precedence over Bush's wishes in security situations.



Again,  i agree with you here.  However it points more to prior knowledge considering all the other facts then a military opp.
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 09:23:24 PM
240 that's a cop out , you should be able to make a reasonable explanation.  Becuase if you can't the obvious answer is most likey true.   It's like a crime scene, they furmulate a theory and prove it by finding facts outside the crime to support it.  They find the get away car or the plane ticket of the murderer etc...

Dude - I can tell you I ate my car for dinner.  If you can't find my car, it must be true, right?

The plane disappeared off radar for 45 miuntes.  It could be anywhere in the midwest, it could be under 300 feet of ocean right now.  We do not know.

We DO know that there is no way a carbon-nosed airplane punches a 16-foot hole in, a 16-foot hole out, and drills perfectly through 3 newly reinforced military buildings before disintegrating.  I mean seriously, did you see the path it was said to have taken?  
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 09:24:33 PM

Many more popele than that would have to be involve....we have already discussed this...remember?

simplest scenario... if i was gonna do it... i'd turn off the plane's radio and remote control it into the ocean.  Could be that easy.   They admitted the FAA supervisor destroyed the tape and discarded it around the building.  That alone should be enough for a new investigation.
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: OzmO on September 02, 2006, 09:26:50 PM
simplest scenario... if i was gonna do it... i'd turn off the plane's radio and remote control it into the ocean.  Could be that easy.   They admitted the FAA supervisor destroyed the tape and discarded it around the building.  That alone should be enough for a new investigation.

REmote control it into the ocean?  How many radar stations would have picked that up?  Also, if you can remote control it why not send it into the pentagon?  Doesn't hold water...so to speak.
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 02, 2006, 09:28:21 PM




SAVE THE BANDWIDTH




read the link to oilempire on p1, ozmo . . . it's far more entertaining/persuasive than watching 240 fly by the seat of his pants.
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: OzmO on September 02, 2006, 09:29:46 PM
Dude - I can tell you I ate my car for dinner.  If you can't find my car, it must be true, right?

The plane disappeared off radar for 45 miuntes.  It could be anywhere in the midwest, it could be under 300 feet of ocean right now.  We do not know.

We DO know that there is no way a carbon-nosed airplane punches a 16-foot hole in, a 16-foot hole out, and drills perfectly through 3 newly reinforced military buildings before disintegrating.  I mean seriously, did you see the path it was said to have taken? 

We do not know that.  We know there are web sites who say it cannot happen and we know we don;t have the knowledge to say either way.  We also know there are  experts that say it is possible. 
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 09:30:24 PM
See:
WTC7 collapse.


We are making assumptions based on incomplete information and we are all NOT even close to having any expertese on this.  Except A_Joker and we all know what he thinks.

True-- none of us are experts.  All I have is testimony from numerous engineers with the Scholars from 911 truth who said no building in histroy has ever fallen like this.  And the simplest thing is that it

1- lost all structural integrity (only way to freefall)

2- was reduced from 47 stories of building to 30 feet of rubble (most of building exploded into dust - fire and fall alone can't pulverize concrete - only explosives)

3- Looked quite unaffected from fire.  Arguments about the front sides's levels... but the rear was intact.  WORSE CASE, the front half should have collapsed or it fell over.  But there is no reson why the back half should have been pulverized into dust.
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 09:31:46 PM
We do not know that.  We know there are web sites who say it cannot happen and we know we don;t have the knowledge to say either way.  We also know there are  experts that say it is possible. 

no - this is the govt's official position in the 911 Report.
16-foot hole In, 16-foot hole Out.  These are their pictures.

Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 09:33:57 PM
REmote control it into the ocean?  How many radar stations would have picked that up?  Also, if you can remote control it why not send it into the pentagon?  Doesn't hold water...so to speak.

1- doesnt matter who picked it up - the wargames had 40 different airplanes getting hijacked on their screens.  And FAA employees are gagged from speaking to press, and their tapes were sealed for the investigation. 

2- you cannot fly that plane into the pentagon because you cannot have 60 dead bodies strewn across lawn on TV.  TV is how American followed the events.  They couldn't have shown close up views if bodies were everywhere.  ANY other plane crash on tv, they zoom wayyyy back.
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 09:36:08 PM
See: Guilliani shipping crime scene to China for recycling and not testing one piece of steel for chemical analysis.

Who says one piece or pieces weren't tested and because of all the other crap chemicals and compounds from 100+ stories that crashed down drenched with plane fuel tha the test were inconclusinve and not mentioned yet? 


1- NIST report lists tests done.  They only tested strength and melting points.  no chem analysis whatsoever was done.

2- chem analysis would possibly show signature of explosive agent (thermite or thermate (sulfur added).  completely different from jet fuel.  one test would have shown this.  They did dozens of tests on the steel bending and didn't do a single chemical analysis.
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: OzmO on September 02, 2006, 09:38:21 PM
True-- none of us are experts.  All I have is testimony from numerous engineers with the Scholars from 911 truth who said no building in histroy has ever fallen like this.  And the simplest thing is that it

1- lost all structural integrity (only way to freefall)

2- was reduced from 47 stories of building to 30 feet of rubble (most of building exploded into dust - fire and fall alone can't pulverize concrete - only explosives)

3- Looked quite unaffected from fire.  Arguments about the front sides's levels... but the rear was intact.  WORSE CASE, the front half should have collapsed or it fell over.  But there is no reson why the back half should have been pulverized into dust.

I don't disagree that there are questions about how this building collasped.  but just becuase there are questions regarding how it didn't seem logicla doesn't yet mean it was a military opp.  Bees are supposed to fly either, but they do.
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: Hugo Chavez on September 02, 2006, 09:38:37 PM
read the link to oilempire on p1, ozmo . . . it's far more entertaining/persuasive than watching 240 fly by the seat of his pants.

AL_GEBRA/DISKDIPSHIT SAVE THE OXYGEN!
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 09:39:40 PM

See: Bush waited 18 months to start, and only did so because of intense media pressure.

Common sense says he's playing CYA becuase of intellengence failures.

Is this acceptable behavior for the leader of the country?  CYA?  
Any other plane crash or terror attack, the investigation starts THAT DAY.  he went out of his way to block this investigation.  Then he built it using his yes-men, all of whom moved into high level intelligence positions right after commission.

Also scope of investigation was not open.  Firefighters/WTC employees with severe burns wre not allowed to testify about bombs.  
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 09:42:44 PM
I don't disagree that there are questions about how this building collasped.  but just becuase there are questions regarding how it didn't seem logicla doesn't yet mean it was a military opp.  Bees are supposed to fly either, but they do.

there have been hundreds of buildings that burned for hours and hours, and slowly collapsed in the top sections, over hours.

google it... even the experts on the govt 911 payroll, many of them won't touch the WTC 7 cause it is so obviously a takedown.

Above all... please... check out this clip... it's 8 seconds long... I don't think anyone in the world can look at this clip and explain why a building that wasn't even burning on this side was able to vaporize in 6 seconds.... http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8403741864603265979&q=wtc+7+new&hl=en
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: OzmO on September 02, 2006, 09:43:25 PM
1- doesnt matter who picked it up - the wargames had 40 different airplanes getting hijacked on their screens.  And FAA employees are gagged from speaking to press, and their tapes were sealed for the investigation. 

2- you cannot fly that plane into the pentagon because you cannot have 60 dead bodies strewn across lawn on TV.  TV is how American followed the events.  They couldn't have shown close up views if bodies were everywhere.  ANY other plane crash on tv, they zoom wayyyy back.

Yes it does.  there are dozens of radar installtions ran and operated by FAA employees all over the place from there to the ocean.  By the way.  I know a few FAA emplyees personally and speak to one often who is 1 level below high level so to speak.  There is no cover up here.  other then a CYA game of  incompetence or fore hand knowledge. But definatly not a military opp of making a plane disappear.


Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: OzmO on September 02, 2006, 09:45:11 PM
Is this acceptable behavior for the leader of the country?  CYA? 
Any other plane crash or terror attack, the investigation starts THAT DAY.  he went out of his way to block this investigation.  Then he built it using his yes-men, all of whom moved into high level intelligence positions right after commission.

Also scope of investigation was not open.  Firefighters/WTC employees with severe burns wre not allowed to testify about bombs. 

Yes very acceptable.  Who's his dad?  former cheif of what agancy?  Come on, think. 
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 09:46:37 PM
Yes it does.  there are dozens of radar installtions ran and operated by FAA employees all over the place from there to the ocean.  By the way.  I know a few FAA emplyees personally and speak to one often who is 1 level below high level so to speak.  There is no cover up here.  other then a CYA game of  incompetence or fore hand knowledge. But definatly not a military opp of making a plane disappear.

I do not know where the plane went.
I do know that no plane hit the pentagon.

So no matter what, until we know what happened to the plane, you'll never believe the pantagon was staged, no matter what evidence you see?

(http://flashrob.com/p.gif)
Title: Re: I have spent thousands of hours researching paranoia . . . please help.
Post by: Hugo Chavez on September 02, 2006, 09:47:51 PM
Here is what a Boeing 757 would look like.

(http://240fm.com/gb/how1.jpg)



Why would anybody care about the photo analysis from a GENERAL who worked at the PENTAGON doing exactly that kind of thing during the cold war with soviet imagery.

Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: OzmO on September 02, 2006, 09:48:30 PM
Tell you what....  let's try this:  Assume it was all military opp and you think the conspiracy is that it was really terrorist.  Try proving terrorist did it.

I have to get some sleep,  early flight tommorrow to Las VEgas where i will lay the smack down on the poker tables before i work my 2 conventions.
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: OzmO on September 02, 2006, 09:50:07 PM
BTW  i would love nothing better then this to be some military opp.  It would be the fuel that would actually cause some change in this country.  But it ain;t the case unfortunatly.
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 09:50:22 PM
Yes very acceptable.  Who's his dad?  former cheif of what agancy?  Come on, think. 

I try to focus on the facts on 911... IMO, when it deteriorates into a CIA discussion, we lose focus of the one thing we CAN change - 300M people's view of the events of 911.  

I think it goes beyond CYA.  They broke the law by shipping away a crime scene.  if Guiliani and Spitzer hadn't been in bed on 911, there would have been indictments.
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: 240 is Back on September 02, 2006, 09:51:47 PM
Tell you what....  let's try this:  Assume it was all military opp and you think the conspiracy is that it was really terrorist.  Try proving terrorist did it.

You can't prove terrorists did it.  They weren't even on flight 77.  no tickets sold, no bodies found.  No arabs at all, even.
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 02, 2006, 09:53:40 PM
Out in the West Texas town of El Paso
I fell in love with a Mexican gurrrrl
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: Hugo Chavez on September 02, 2006, 09:56:49 PM
BTW  i would love nothing better then this to be some military opp.  It would be the fuel that would actually cause some change in this country.  But it ain;t the case unfortunatly.
Odd... I wish like hell it was not!!! I wish like hell I could believe members of our own government would never do this... But that's just not true... They have before.... Several times... and they will do this again.... :( :'(
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: Hugo Chavez on September 02, 2006, 10:00:56 PM
Out in the West Texas town of El Paso
I fell in love with a Mexican gurrrrl

YOU... Leave... Marty out of this bitch...  Infact I'll be confiscating your records....  You have no business listening to anything "Outlaw" related...
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: Hulkster on September 03, 2006, 06:12:10 AM
Quote
but just becuase there are questions regarding how it didn't seem logicla doesn't yet mean it was a military opp.  Bees are supposed to fly either, but they do.

this is what I have been trying to get through to 240.

Just because the mechanisms of the collapse are not 100% clear does not mean that there must have been "bombs" in the basement or that the whole thing was an inside conspriracy.

this is a CLASSIC conspiracy theorist tactic:

take ONE item that is not 100% known and then say "therefore, the whole conspiracy theory must be true"

240, you are turning into a classic conspiracy theorist.

And this is not good.

Alreadly, you are acting is if you know concrete things (eg. bombs in the basement) that have no credible proof yet..

your objectivity is now gone..
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: 240 is Back on September 03, 2006, 08:06:40 AM
this is what I have been trying to get through to 240.

Just because the mechanisms of the collapse are not 100% clear does not mean that there must have been "bombs" in the basement or that the whole thing was an inside conspriracy.

this is a CLASSIC conspiracy theorist tactic:

take ONE item that is not 100% known and then say "therefore, the whole conspiracy theory must be true"

240, you are turning into a classic conspiracy theorist.

And this is not good.

Alreadly, you are acting is if you know concrete things (eg. bombs in the basement) that have no credible proof yet..

your objectivity is now gone..

Let's try it from a diff angle.

IS the 2001 and 2004 Osama tape fake?

If it is, you have a govt guilty of lying about the justification for war, lying about Osama even being involved, and lying to keep us scared.

Just look at the pic of him 1 month apart- is that the same osama? 
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl .
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 03, 2006, 08:08:31 AM
so who created the fake tape, 240?
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: 240 is Back on September 03, 2006, 08:11:19 AM
so who created the fake tape, 240?

Do you agree it looks fake?
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl .
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 03, 2006, 08:12:58 AM
Do you agree it looks fake?

i'll say that you have pics of 2 guys who look different--don't know where you got 'em from

but, who created the fake tape?
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: 240 is Back on September 03, 2006, 08:19:01 AM
i'll say that you have pics of 2 guys who look different--don't know where you got 'em from
but, who created the fake tape?

They were taken directly from screenshots of bin laden.  The skinny old man one was the one we saw all summer and fall on multiple tapes in which he denied any involvement in 911.  The fat jolly guy with the new head/nose came from a videotape found in a house raid in Jalalabad, Afghanistan in Nov 2001.

I'm not going to claim to know who created the fake tape.  here is what I know from the US govt itself:

1- the tape was found by US Special Forces in a house in Jalalabad.
2- the tape was verified by the CIA
3- the tape was used by Bush to justify the war (it's the only piece of evidence)
4- the tape was called absolutely fake by all top bin laden experts.  or, they refused to comment.  Not ONE bin laden or middle eastern expert from the US, Switzerland, or any other country would verify it to be real.  Many called it an outright fake.  his voice, rhetoric, speaking style, and look are all different)

The US Govt was the only party to ever have its hands on a tape which served all of its purposes.  They verified it and used it to try to convince American to back this war.

So I ask you - if the US Govt (primarily the White house) would push a tape on us which is fake in order to justify a war in the middle east and scare people...

Why would they do this?
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl .
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 03, 2006, 08:48:59 AM
so what's the bottom line here . . . that bin laden doesn't/didn't exist?
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: 240 is Back on September 03, 2006, 09:06:26 AM
so what's the bottom line here . . . that bin laden doesn't/didn't exist?

bin laden exists.  he was a cia asset in the 80s.  The CIA openly gave him money, weapons and trianing to fight the russians in afghanistan.  This is public record.

during the 90s bin laden's involvement with the CIA became very sketchy.  He was blamed for planning the 1993 WTC bombings, even though the leader of the cell here had an actual tape recording of the NY FBI head giving him the truck, the explosives, and directions under the guise of a drill.  This was reported by all major media outlets in 93 then quickly dropped.

In 2001 bin laden was sighted repeatedly in duBai while many in his family were visiting the US.  Bush Sr. met with bin Lden's brother on the morning of 911. 
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: 240 is Back on September 03, 2006, 09:10:03 AM
As always, i encourage you to research these points to reach your own findings.

The tape is obviously fake, by our own eyes and by top bin laden experts worldwide.

And the only people who ever found, handled, verified and played the tape were our govt employees.

Does it smell fishy yet?
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl .
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 03, 2006, 09:17:37 AM
are you saying that this is the first time the CIA has been mistaken?

more importantly, are you suggesting that Bin Laden was not the real/dominant face of Islamic terrorism in the late 90s and early 2000s?
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: Butterbean on September 03, 2006, 09:18:30 AM
Out in the West Texas town of El Paso
I fell in love with a Mexican gurrrrl

Night-time would find me in Rosa's Cantina
Music would play and Felina would whirl.....
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 03, 2006, 09:20:14 AM
Night-time would find me in Rosa's Cantina
Music would play and Felina would whirl.....


haha, someone else has been listening to Marty  . . . hey, it was the first football weekend and inevitably someone puts marty on.

btw, shouldn't you be at church?
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: Butterbean on September 03, 2006, 09:25:21 AM
haha, someone else has been listening to Marty  . . . hey, it was the first football weekend and inevitably someone puts marty on.

btw, shouldn't you be at church?

Our regular pastor wasn't preaching and we much prefer him over the guy that was....so we played hooky.  Watched some church on TV though so not to worry ;D

El Paso is the best country music song ever..(it's even on my I-Pod) and I hate country music.

Check out number 4 on Stella's 100 songs ;D :

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=91248.0

Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: 240 is Back on September 03, 2006, 09:27:12 AM
are you saying that this is the first time the CIA has been mistaken?

Do you seriously think the CIA is *mistaken* on this?  They spend a lot of time on analysis - do you seriously think they couldn't tell those two bin laden faces apart?  They have the top technology in the world - do you seriously believe that they couldn't see his nose, skull, bodyweight, height, and other things were different in this tape?

We're talking about the smartest group of people in the world.  They're handed this tape and they verify it is bin laden.  Do you really think they were fooled?
Title: Re: Paranoia & Flip-Flopping by Our Educator of the Masses
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 03, 2006, 09:29:26 AM
Our regular pastor wasn't preaching and we much prefer him over the guy that was....so we played hooky.  Watched some church on TV though so not to worry ;D

El Paso is the best country music song ever..(it's even on my I-Pod) and I hate country music.

Check out number 4 on Stella's 100 songs ;D :

http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=91248.0



interesting list there, Steven Curtis Chapman and Tupac make it . . .  ;D

Stella, church is just as much about fellowship as it is about edification . . .  :P
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl .
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 03, 2006, 09:30:38 AM


more importantly, are you suggesting that Bin Laden was not the real/dominant face of Islamic terrorism in the late 90s and early 2000s?
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: 240 is Back on September 03, 2006, 09:34:41 AM
more importantly, are you suggesting that Bin Laden was not the real/dominant face of Islamic terrorism in the late 90s and early 2000s?

Of course, bin Laden was the face of terorism in the world.  

The question is, why would our govt propagate the fear?  Why would they find then verify a FAKE videotape?  The only purpose of that tape was to scare people, and to for some reason give bin laden the blame for 911, which he never accepted.

Why would they fake that tape?  
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: 240 is Back on September 03, 2006, 09:35:21 AM
Al, do you think teh CIA was just plain *fooled*?

Or do you think they verified it as real, even though they knew it wasn't him?
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl .
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 03, 2006, 09:39:51 AM
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=91890.msg1324673#msg1324673
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl .
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 03, 2006, 09:41:25 AM
but you'd be stupid to think they weren't biding their time, waiting to strike again. think the author is rather naive on that point w his "more likely to die by comet strike" shite.
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: 240 is Back on September 03, 2006, 09:42:33 AM
http://www.getbig.com/boards/index.php?topic=91890.msg1324673#msg1324673

I understand that article - I can't tell what you're saying though.  

Do you mean to say that the US is using bin laden (even fake videos) to scare us?
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl .
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 03, 2006, 09:45:08 AM
threat is real . . . to be distracted from the main threat is stupid.  I'm not saying don't be watchful of your own side . . . I'm not about to give up any of my civil liberties or see the constitution abrogated for anything.
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: 240 is Back on September 03, 2006, 09:45:52 AM
but you'd be stupid to think they weren't biding their time, waiting to strike again. think the author is rather naive on that point w his "more likely to die by comet strike" shite.

yes- the author did sound a bit frantic.

i really try not to reach such agitated responses.  I just focus on the facts.

1- we know the bin laden tape is fake.
2- we know our govt found and verified this fake tape.
3- the tape served their purposes very well.

Once people aren't scared anymore, the war ends, right?  Once news breaks that bin laden is dead, good luck getting any votes for the war on terror.

Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl .
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 03, 2006, 09:47:29 AM
Once news breaks that bin laden is dead, good luck getting any votes for the war on terror.



that would be a mistake.
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: 240 is Back on September 03, 2006, 09:47:54 AM
threat is real . . . to be distracted from the main threat is stupid.  I'm not saying don't be watchful of your own side . . . I'm not about to give up any of my civil liberties or see the constitution abrogated for anything.

I agree the threat of terror is real - from BOTH muslim extremists, and elements of our own govt.

Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl .
Post by: 240 is Back on September 03, 2006, 09:49:02 AM
that would be a mistake.

breaking news on his death woudl be a mistake?

many worldwide sources have him dead in Dec of 2001.

The ONLY and I mean ONLY source of anything from him since late 2001?

Those two tapes made by the CIA with the fake bun laden face.  Go figure.
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: 240 is Back on September 03, 2006, 09:53:16 AM
since we have recorded proof that the FBI knew about the 1993 WTC attacks and let bin laden take the blame for it to scare people...

and we know that the US found then the CIA verified an obviously fake OBL tape in Nov 2001, to scare people (and justify the war).

Do you consider it even a remote possibility that two months prior to this, the US painted an OBL face on the 911 attacks to scare people (and justify a war)?

They lied in 1993.  They lied in Nov 2001.  They lied in Oct 2004. 
Is it a possibility they lied in Sept 2001?
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl .
Post by: Al-Gebra on September 03, 2006, 09:56:57 AM
since we have recorded proof that the FBI knew about the 1993 WTC attacks and let bin laden take the blame for it to scare people...

and we know that the US found then the CIA verified an obviously fake OBL tape in Nov 2001, to scare people (and justify the war).

Do you consider it even a remote possibility that two months prior to this, the US painted an OBL face on the 911 attacks to scare people (and justify a war)?

They lied in 1993.  They lied in Nov 2001.  They lied in Oct 2004. 
Is it a possibility they lied in Sept 2001?

you have now left all reasonable people about a thousand miles behind.

while bin laden is/was an amazing rhetorician . . . to assume that the threat ends with him would be stupid.
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: 240 is Back on September 03, 2006, 10:03:35 AM
you have now left all reasonable people about a thousand miles behind.

while bin laden is/was an amazing rhetorician . . . to assume that the threat ends with him would be stupid.

actually, I think reasonable people woudl begin to doubt the credibility of what the govt tells us.

They told us bin laden was behind the WTC 1993 attacks.  Then the tape surfaced of the head of the NY FBI giving the cell leader here the truck, the explosives, and the exact spot to park the truck.  Said it was all a drill. Our govt clearly lied here and got egg on their face

They told us the bin laden tape was real.  Experts say its fake.  You can use your own eyes and determine it is fake.  Our govt clearly lied here

I don't see why you're willing to blindly swallow the official story of 9/11.  They've lied about the WTC before.  They've lied about bin laden before.
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: scooter on September 03, 2006, 01:08:44 PM
I am just happy to know that 3 buildings came down because of fire from jet fuel for the 1st time in the world in the same day. I am also glad to hear that planes now vaporize on impact now( makes for less clean up) but the bodies can still be identified.
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: 240 is Back on September 03, 2006, 02:39:48 PM
I tell ya... you can lead a horse tow ater but you cannot make him drink.

I've carefully explained quite a few very compelling reasons for a new 911 investigation.  The incredible buildings falling, the pentagon disappearing plane, and the fact that even Bush loyalists here agree that isn't bin laden... but they don't care.

Think about it.  A videotaped confession that is fake - you can use your eyes to see the noses are very different- is the ONLY thing which connects bin laden to war.  yet some people don't even want to hear it.   

Imagine supporting a war against a guy in afghanistan - even though you know the evidence is false.  Is that not insane? 
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: 240 is Back on September 03, 2006, 02:49:20 PM
I am just happy to know that 3 buildings came down because of fire from jet fuel for the 1st time in the world in the same day. I am also glad to hear that planes now vaporize on impact now( makes for less clean up) but the bodies can still be identified.

oh- the bodies were all identified and the FBI had a complete detailed report (including house raids and interviews with all their family members) by 11 am the next morning. 

The file was complete 24 hours later.  great work, huh?  Especially because none of the terrorists were even on the pentagon plane (flight 77).  Their names were not on the manifest, they never bought tickets either.  Heck, there was not one arab on the plane at all.  They were never videotaped going into the plane either, as the NY jackers were.

So now terrorists get to fly free, without tickets.  Awesome, huh?
Title: Re: Out in the West Texas town of El Paso, I fell in love with a Mexican girl . . .
Post by: 240 is Back on September 03, 2006, 02:51:14 PM
but the bodies can still be identified.

LOL.. AND that fact that they somehow have on file, the DNA samples of the men.  So not only were they able to find the crime scene DNA for all ten men at the towers in one day, but they were able to locate samples to test it against.  monster police work :)