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Getbig Bodybuilding Boards => Natural Bodybuilding => Topic started by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 08:55:10 PM



Title: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 08:55:10 PM
I just would like to re-iterate this to beginners so they don`t go setting unrealistic goals for themselves.

This applies to Lifetime Naturals:

The natural human will not make huge gains year after year.  It is a Scientific impossibility. Gains will be made, but minimal.  This is for everyone. There are ZERO naturals walking around at 5`11 or less, 220 lbs ripped.

NONE. The cutoff for a Lifetime Natural is around 200lbs or so. Give or take a few Pounds.

I challenge ANYONE to find me 5 LIFETIME NATURALS 5`11 and under, over 205 lbs ripped.



Be aware of this.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: AVBG on September 07, 2006, 08:58:21 PM
I just would like to re-iterate this to beginners so they don`t go setting unrealistic goals for themselves.

This applies to Lifetime Naturals:

The natural human will not make huge gains year after year.  It is a Scientific impossibility. Gains will be made, but minimal.  This is for everyone. There are ZERO naturals walking around at 5`11 and under 225 lbs ripped.

NONE. The cutoff for a Lifetime Natural is around 200lbs or so. Give or take a few Pounds.

I challenge ANYONE to find me 5 LIFETIME NATURALS 5`11 and under, over 205 lbs ripped.



Be aware of this.

Sorry Adam, you couldn't possibly know that for a fact... There is no way you could research that.

Total Crapp - that's what you should name your theories.



Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Rich2 on September 07, 2006, 09:01:49 PM
and where is the empirical evidence which lead to this amazing conclusion?  i just wanna know which medical journal to pick up so i can learn more about these 'facts'.

gay


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Matt C on September 07, 2006, 09:02:51 PM
Adonis, you are referring to contest shape right?

5'11 and 205 in contest shape is a lot bigger than you guys may suspect, and I do agree that it is around the max a person can get.  Think about anyone who competes at a higher body weight than that at that height - are they juiced?  Think about it.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: JeanPaul on September 07, 2006, 09:03:15 PM
Seek medical help. Seriously man, you are not well.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 09:04:14 PM
I do know it for a fact.

Produce 5 specimens and I`ll admit that I am wrong.

You can`t. Do you know why?  Because it DOES NOT HAPPEN!
Lifetime Natural is a hard road to follow in that  you have to be realistic in what is humanly possible....When you realize this, you won`t overshoot your goals and fuck up by doing some bullshit routine (DC)


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Stavios on September 07, 2006, 09:04:29 PM
Adonis, you are referring to contest shape right?

5'11 and 205 in contest shape is a lot bigger than you guys may suspect, and I do agree that it is around the max a person can get.  Think about anyone who competes at a higher body weight than that at that height - are they juiced?  Think about it.

5'11 205 lbs in contest shape is huge

it means at least 230 with abs wich I consider pretty big



Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: AVBG on September 07, 2006, 09:04:53 PM
I do know it for a fact.

Produce 5 specimens and I`ll admit that I am wrong.

You can`t. Do you know why?  Because it DOES NOT HAPPEN!
Lifetime Natural is a hard road to follow in that  you have to be realistic in what is humanly possible....When you realize this, you won`t overshoot your goals and f**k up by doing some bullshit routine (DC)


Total Crapp  :)


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 09:06:22 PM
Total Crapp  :)


Ok. Show me 5 Lifetime Naturals that meet this criteria?

Show me one.
Can you?


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: AVBG on September 07, 2006, 09:08:40 PM
Ok. Show me 5 Lifetime Naturals that meet this criteria?

Show me one.
Can you?

Open your eyes and look around the thousands of gyms in America, you fool.

Do you think that anyone who looks better than you is a juicer?



Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 09:10:07 PM
Open your eyes and look around the thousands of gyms in America, you fool.

Do you think that anyone who looks better than you is a juicer?



Show me one.
How about someone that even competes.

It is people like you that spread the lies.  You can`t produce one fucking specimen that meets my criteria.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Rich2 on September 07, 2006, 09:11:35 PM
I do know it for a fact.

Produce 5 specimens and I`ll admit that I am wrong.

You can`t. Do you know why?  Because it DOES NOT HAPPEN!
Lifetime Natural is a hard road to follow in that  you have to be realistic in what is humanly possible....When you realize this, you won`t overshoot your goals and f**k up by doing some bullshit routine (DC)


your scientific method is as shitty as your forearms.  do they have colleges in whatever assbackwards place you live in?


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 09:13:27 PM
Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but bodybuilding as we know it is just drugs.  The only true "genetics" involved are genetic response to drugs.  Meaning that Adam may not be pro size ON drugs, but they sure as hell would be his size OFF drugs.

You guys get this right?  Please get it!

If pros were off the juice, they would be Adam's size.  They would be the size of my training partner.  Actually, I would doubt many of them would have 17" calves in good condition naturally.

Everyone here who is telling us that being huge consists of some incredible "work ethic" or "genetics" or whatever are insulting not only our work ethic and genetics, but also our intelligence.

Look at Tom Prince - weighing all of 180 pounds today.  But Tom did say that the last thing which makes a pro a pro is his gear cycles.  ::)

Tom also said his cycles were "extremely basic."  Yeah - 18 IUs of GH and one gram of test per day.  I guess it is pretty short and to the point.  ::)

Pay attention to MATT C.
This is the truth.

You won`t find this shit in the magazines.  But it is the Truth.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Stavios on September 07, 2006, 09:14:26 PM
18 IUs of GH and one gram of test per day

I don't buy this


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Rottmag on September 07, 2006, 09:14:39 PM
Why would you even write this?

Alll it does it put a sour taste into the mouths of young kids coming into our sport.

You tool!


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: JeanPaul on September 07, 2006, 09:15:11 PM
You are a moron. All this bullshit talk about "lifetime naturals". You are a jelous joke. Nobody cares about you or your opinions.
You are a nobody. Period.
It seems like you havent noticed that on this board people discuss Ronnie, Jay and others who obviously not natural and nobody here cares. Jelousy is killing you and you seem more pathetic with every stupid, pointless and childish post.
Just grow up, conquer your fear and get a bottle of Deca. You will love it.  Just throw some test in to it and you will tahnk me for it.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: onlyme on September 07, 2006, 09:15:39 PM
Not to ruin the theory here but I was 6'1" 247 in 1980-81, benched 500 even, totally 100% natural/drug-free, not one thing in me but allot of eggs, steak, chicken and liver tabs.  I have known several natural athletes I grew up with that weighed about 210 to 220 natural that were built unreal.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: AVBG on September 07, 2006, 09:16:30 PM
Show me one.
How about someone that even competes.

It is people like you that spread the lies.  You can`t produce one fucking specimen that meets my criteria.

Adam, seriously I don't have the desire or time to spend taking and posting pictures of people I don't personally know. These people are out there.

At the same time I am not lying nor do I push these "lies" as you put it - I got nothing to gain from it, the fact remains that bodybuilding results are unique to everyone, no two trainees are the same. You've demonstrated that with your "icecream" diet.



Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Stavios on September 07, 2006, 09:16:51 PM
Not to ruin the theory here but I was 6'1" 247 in 1980-81, benched 500 even, totally 100% natural/drug-free, not one thing in me but allot of eggs, steak, chicken and liver tabs.  I have known several natural athletes I grew up with that weighed about 210 to 220 natural that were built unreal.

you are a fucking samoan it doesn't count !!!!  >:(  ;D


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 09:16:55 PM
Not to ruin the theory here but I was 6'1" 247 in 1980-81, benched 500 even, totally 100% natural/drug-free, not one thing in me but allot of eggs, steak, chicken and liver tabs.  I have known several natural athletes I grew up with that weighed about 210 to 220 natural that were built unreal.

You didn`t ruin anything.
You are not 5`11 and under. No disrespect to you Keith, but even so, you were not in single digit bodyfat.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 09:18:53 PM
Adam, seriously I don't have the desire or time to spend taking and posting pictures of people I don't personally know. These people are out there.

At the same time I am not lying nor do I push these "lies" as you put it - I got nothing to gain from it, the fact remains that bodybuilding results are unique to everyone, no two trainees are the same. You've demonstrated that with your "icecream" diet.



WHERE are they?

I have never seen one in real life,On Television, in a Magazine, In a Book, Or even in the last 100 years.

All I ask is for you to show me.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: AVBG on September 07, 2006, 09:24:49 PM
WHERE are they?

I have never seen one in real life,On Television, in a Magazine, In a Book, Or even in the last 100 years.

All I ask is for you to show me.

The thing is even if I were bothered to get this info to you, You wouldn't believe it as you have got these limitations stuck in your head.

Its sad really :'(, because you could look alot better than you do if you didn't limit yourself to these preconcieved ideology of what is really acheivable.




Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: AVBG on September 07, 2006, 09:30:12 PM
Did you guys see the pictures of Dillett that just came out?  He is all of 230 at 6'1 and fat.  ahh, the power of gear memory.

no I didn't see them, wheres the link?


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 09:30:46 PM
The thing is even if I were bothered to get this info to you, You wouldn't believe it as you have got these limitations stuck in your head.

Its sad really :'(, because you could look alot better than you do if you didn't limit yourself to these preconcieved ideology of what is really acheivable.




I WOULD believe it.

Thing is, if it is so common, based on sheer numbers all of us would be able to name someone with some sort of notoriety that meets my criteria.

Guess what. Nobody can.  


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: AVBG on September 07, 2006, 09:34:07 PM
I WOULD believe it.

Thing is, if it is so common, based on sheer numbers all of us would be able to name someone with some sort of notoriety that meets my criteria.

Guess what. Nobody can.  

We'll, I do meet the criteria.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: pobrecito on September 07, 2006, 09:40:00 PM
Adonis has several valid points.

The problem with his posts are he thinks he is standard aka the genetic elite. When the reality, this is not the case. So saying a natural can only gain 3lbs a year of muscle is laughable....just becuase you can't build anymore than 3lbs/year TA doesn't mean no one else can ;)


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: AVBG on September 07, 2006, 09:41:22 PM
Adonis has several valid points.

The problem with his posts are he thinks he is standard aka the genetic elite. When the reality, this is not the case. So saying a natural can only gain 3lbs a year of muscle is laughable....just becuase you can't build anymore than 3lbs/year TA doesn't mean no one else can ;)

Spot on. My point exactly.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 09:43:16 PM
You don`t know what I build in a year,because I never have said such.



Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: pobrecito on September 07, 2006, 09:44:15 PM
You don`t know what I build in a year,because I never have said such.



You have average genetics. At least you work hard with what you have though.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 09:49:13 PM
You have average genetics. At least you work hard with what you have though.

There is no such thing as average as the Human Population when viewed in its entirety, all have the same Protein Synthesis capability.

Remember that is when viewed on the whole.

Furthermore, there really is no such things as "Superior" natural genetics.

There is no standard for it,no reference point for "Superior" Lifetime Natural Bodybuilding Genetics.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 09:53:48 PM
Adam is saying there is no "genetic elite".  Human beings all gain muscle mass at roughly the same rate (slow).  There is also no evolutionary reason why we would ever need to have as much muscle as pro bodybuilders which is why it's impossible to get that size naturally.  Processing food (protein) and response to resistance training is also all pretty well the same amongst people.  I won't say there are 0 exceptions to this, but I will say that this applies to the sweeping majority of human beings.

EDIT: damn, we almost said the same thing at the same time.  ;D

No idea why they just don`t break it down like this in the Magazines.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: pobrecito on September 07, 2006, 09:56:40 PM
There is no such thing as average as the Human Population when viewed in its entirety, all have the same Protein Synthesis capability.

Remember that is when viewed on the whole.

Furthermore, there really is no such things as "Superior" natural genetics.

There is no standard for it,no reference point for "Superior" Lifetime Natural Bodybuilding Genetics.

When viewed as a whole, sure you can put everone in one general category. But, when you break it down some people have genetic characteristics that are more suitable to bodybuilding criteria than others. However, what I would call good genetics for bodybuilding is actually, evolutionarily speaking, bad genetics. The ability to stay very lean for one is considered good for bodybuilders, but is bad in an evolutionary sense. Back in the day (think caveman), they needed that fat. Things like insulin sensitivity and fat distrobution vary widely in the human population and these can either suit bodybuilders or not. That being said, you are right, many of us are lumped in the same category, we are all relatively similar genetically. However, there are those few that are genetically superior.



Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: pobrecito on September 07, 2006, 09:59:07 PM
ah, forgot to add....shape! That's a huge genetic trait that varies greatly!


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: myseone on September 07, 2006, 09:59:20 PM
I don't know if this info hurts or helps beginning bodybuilders.

On one hand a goal of 5' 11" or so at 200lbs is qiuet good naturally, in fact excellent. A gentically gifted man could achieve this without supps, and drugs, it would take sound training, good diet, and enough rest. Basic stuff.

On the other hand, even though rare there are people who exceed this without drugs. Not many at 5'11", but I train an indivdual who weighs about 225-227lbs and he's probably around 9%.

At a height of just under 5'11" I have achieved a build of 210lbs, single digit body fat, without drugs (I have been clean for about 10 years, with drugs up to 230lbs single digits). My body weight now fluctuates between 200 and 210, and still single digits are held.

Once the drugs are out of the system the bodies natural levels of GH, Test, etc. go back to normal if excessive amounts of drugs were not used. So yes it is possible for a person to do it without drugs, rare,but possible.



Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: pobrecito on September 07, 2006, 10:01:32 PM
Once you do sift through all the garbage I do feel TA has a few valid points:

1) becoming delusional thinking you are gaining muscle when it's just fat. We have ALL fallen into this trap, myself included
2) You don't need supplements, just simple food



Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: AVBG on September 07, 2006, 10:01:37 PM
When viewed as a whole, sure you can put everone in one general category. But, when you break it down some people have genetic characteristics that are more suitable to bodybuilding criteria than others. However, what I would call good genetics for bodybuilding is actually, evolutionarily speaking, bad genetics. The ability to stay very lean for one is considered good for bodybuilders, but is bad in an evolutionary sense. Back in the day (think caveman), they needed that fat. Things like insulin sensitivity and fat distrobution vary widely in the human population and these can either suit bodybuilders or not. That being said, you are right, many of us are lumped in the same category, we are all relatively similar genetically. However, there are those few that are genetically superior.



And why is that so hard to accept??


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: myseone on September 07, 2006, 10:14:52 PM
When viewed as a whole, sure you can put everone in one general category. But, when you break it down some people have genetic characteristics that are more suitable to bodybuilding criteria than others. However, what I would call good genetics for bodybuilding is actually, evolutionarily speaking, bad genetics. The ability to stay very lean for one is considered good for bodybuilders, but is bad in an evolutionary sense. Back in the day (think caveman), they needed that fat. Things like insulin sensitivity and fat distrobution vary widely in the human population and these can either suit bodybuilders or not. That being said, you are right, many of us are lumped in the same category, we are all relatively similar genetically. However, there are those few that are genetically superior.



Good point, but what exists as a strength in a certain environment can be a big handicap in another. In terms of genetics for bodybuilding with or without drugs, what helps is

1) Small hip to shoulder ratio
2) small to medium sized joints
3)long muscle bellies
4) ability to burn fat easily (in naturals)
5) Sturdy bones, tendons, etc.
6) Neuromuscular effiency
7) Good to great recovery ability


Other important factors (more so with drug free trainees, but also important for competitive drug users)
8) Discipline
9) high pain tolerance
10) intelligence (ability to learn, adapt training methods to circumstances, etc.. Not seen in all bodybuilders for sure)
11) passion





Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: yangmian on September 07, 2006, 10:22:51 PM
ISNT CROATCH UNDER 511 AND OVER 200


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Bast000 on September 07, 2006, 10:31:53 PM
ISNT CROATCH UNDER 511 AND OVER 200

not in contest shape, genius.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: myseone on September 07, 2006, 10:36:14 PM
I did the musclemania Superbody in 2005. Weighed in at 205lbs at just under 5'11". I also did an natural NPC show a few years back at the same weight.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: sean on September 07, 2006, 10:37:11 PM
Ok. Show me 5 Lifetime Naturals that meet this criteria?

Show me one.
Can you?

Here ya go assbag.
http://www.bodybuilders.com/nrogers.htm


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Bast000 on September 07, 2006, 10:38:32 PM
don't you think that taking steroids in the past and getting bigger has helped you get to that weight later on without drugs myseone?

Your muscle cells have grown and stretched before so I think it's possible that they grow easier later on even off of steroids.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: sean on September 07, 2006, 10:39:25 PM
Sorry to burst everyone's bubble, but bodybuilding as we know it is just drugs.  The only true "genetics" involved are genetic response to drugs.  Meaning that Adam may not be pro size ON drugs, but they sure as hell would be his size OFF drugs.

You guys get this right?  Please get it!

If pros were off the juice, they would be Adam's size.  They would be the size of my training partner.  Actually, I would doubt many of them would have 17" calves in good condition naturally.

Everyone here who is telling us that being huge consists of some incredible "work ethic" or "genetics" or whatever are insulting not only our work ethic and genetics, but also our intelligence.

Look at Tom Prince - weighing all of 180 pounds today.  But Tom did say that the last thing which makes a pro a pro is his gear cycles.  ::)

Tom also said his cycles were "extremely basic."  Yeah - 18 IUs of GH and one gram of test per day.  I guess it is pretty short and to the point.  ::)

and you plan to remove your tounge from adams ass when?


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: myseone on September 07, 2006, 10:41:09 PM
Despite lying about my height here goes another

http://www.bodybuilders.com/hosannah.htm


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: sean on September 07, 2006, 10:41:21 PM
Did you guys see the pictures of Dillett that just came out?  He is all of 230 at 6'1 and fat.  ahh, the power of gear memory.
post please


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 10:44:17 PM
Here ya go assbag.
http://www.bodybuilders.com/nrogers.htm

Failed the Criteria. He is over 5`11.

Plus he could be leaner.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Wombat on September 07, 2006, 10:44:39 PM
Good point, but what exists as a strength in a certain environment can be a big handicap in another. In terms of genetics for bodybuilding with or without drugs, what helps is

1) Small hip to shoulder ratio
2) small to medium sized joints
3)long muscle bellies
4) ability to burn fat easily (in naturals)
5) Sturdy bones, tendons, etc.
6) Neuromuscular effiency
7) Good to great recovery ability


Other important factors (more so with drug free trainees, but also important for competitive drug users)
8) Discipline
9) high pain tolerance
10) intelligence (ability to learn, adapt training methods to circumstances, etc.. Not seen in all bodybuilders for sure)
11) passion





good points and also natural test level and natural gh levels along with inslin sensitivity...


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: ManBearPig... on September 07, 2006, 10:48:38 PM
Here ya go assbag.
http://www.bodybuilders.com/nrogers.htm

he/s 6'2" dickbreath


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: myseone on September 07, 2006, 10:49:48 PM
don't you think that taking steroids in the past and getting bigger has helped you get to that weight later on without drugs myseone?

Your muscle cells have grown and stretched before so I think it's possible that they grow easier later on even off of steroids.


Interesting point, but no not really. Muscle cells don't stretch they get thicker with training. After you stop using drugs you are actually at a disadvantage because hormonal levels are way off, high cortisol low test profile (llok at former steriod users that stop, Mike Morris comes to mind. It took me about a year to begin growing again and I did'nt use that much (fact).

After the year I built up to around 205lbs defintely single digits body fat, and was able to get bigger than that at single digits drug free. Not to mention that i have not used in years (10 aprox.)

Not to mention that i incured a quadricep tendon rupture while I was training naturally (heavy lunges which put me out of training hardcore for close to a year. Add in the 9 month depression in which I did'nt train.

So no, the drugs and there effects are way gone. It's possible for some men to get that big naturally.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: ManBearPig... on September 07, 2006, 10:50:21 PM
Despite lying about my height here goes another

http://www.bodybuilders.com/hosannah.htm

props man, great physique.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: myseone on September 07, 2006, 10:50:34 PM
good points and also natural test level and natural gh levels along with inslin sensitivity...

Yep


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: myseone on September 07, 2006, 10:51:09 PM
props man, great physique.

Thanks


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: ManBearPig... on September 07, 2006, 10:52:16 PM
Interesting point, but no not really. Muscle cells don't stretch they get thicker with training. After you stop using drugs you are actually at a disadvantage because hormonal levels are way off, high cortisol low test profile (llok at former steriod users that stop, Mike Morris comes to mind. It took me about a year to begin growing again and I did'nt use that much (fact).

After the year I built up to around 205lbs defintely single digits body fat, and was able to get bigger than that at single digits drug free. Not to mention that i have not used in years (10 aprox.)

Not to mention that i incured a quadricep tendon rupture while I was training naturally (heavy lunges which put me out of training hardcore for close to a year. Add in the 9 month depression in which I did'nt train.

So no, the drugs and there effects are way gone. It's possible for some men to get that big naturally.

great work, but not a lifetime natural.  you don't qualify either.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Bast000 on September 07, 2006, 10:52:53 PM
myseone's diet is interesting, Not too strict or high protein:


      Meal 1. 3 servings of oatmeal (with a little sugar), 3 whole eggs + 4 egg whites, piece of fruit

      Meal 2. 2 yogurts, 1 small cottage cheese, fruit and/or bagel

      Meal 3. Lean cut of meat or fish, 4 slices of bread or bowl of rice, vegetables and hot pepper to the mix, maybe olives also

      Meal 4. 4 servings of sorbet

      Meal 5. Fish, vegetables, rice or potatoes, fruit






Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Croatch on September 07, 2006, 10:54:09 PM
Quote
ISNT CROATCH UNDER 511 AND OVER 200
I'm 5' 8" 222lbs @10%bf.  I don't qualify though because of my cycle in 94'.  Dropped everything and more, started back in 2002 at 150lbs.  gained everything naturally since 94'.
Low bodyfat, I'd be @ 210lbs?


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: sean on September 07, 2006, 10:54:33 PM
There is no such thing as average as the Human Population when viewed in its entirety, all have the same Protein Synthesis capability.

Remember that is when viewed on the whole.

Furthermore, there really is no such things as "Superior" natural genetics.

There is no standard for it,no reference point for "Superior" Lifetime Natural Bodybuilding Genetics.

Your mental giantism has again overlooked basic physiology. typical of you BB Magazine know-it-alls. No we dont all have the same "Protein Synthesis Capability. Thats why some of us carry more muscle and respond differently to resistance training.  Theres a lot that goes into protein synthesis, but we are not all the same.  Androgen receptors, insulin response (glut. 4 receptor quantity), testosterone production... so on.
Look, i used to play ball with guys that seemed to synthesize protein off of canned green beans, jack in the box, and all the pot they could smoke. They didnt use steroids. They probably didnt even know what they were. All they had was good genetics, also known as... Protein sysnthesis capability.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 10:54:48 PM
myseone's diet is interesting, Not too strict or high protein:


      Meal 1. 3 servings of oatmeal (with a little sugar), 3 whole eggs + 4 egg whites, piece of fruit

      Meal 2. 2 yogurts, 1 small cottage cheese, fruit and/or bagel

      Meal 3. Lean cut of meat or fish, 4 slices of bread or bowl of rice, vegetables and hot pepper to the mix, maybe olives also

      Meal 4. 4 servings of sorbet

      Meal 5. Fish, vegetables, rice or potatoes, fruit






Good diet. You need more Wendys though. Change the Sorbet for Ben and Jerrys. Add Oreos.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 10:55:36 PM
I had no idea that you were once a steroid user MYSEONE.
That does explain alot about some of your lifts.

Perhaps you performed them when "On"


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: sean on September 07, 2006, 10:56:22 PM
Failed the Criteria. He is over 5`11.

Plus he could be leaner.

I take it your under 5'11"? is it beyond you to take account for the added three inches? If i could find the pics that are newer of Nick, id post em. Let me look. Oh wait, in those he was 235ish... does that count? Still natural too.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: myseone on September 07, 2006, 10:56:30 PM
great work, but not a lifetime natural.  you don't qualify either.

I'll have to train my little brother and see how big he gets then. Drugs don't last, ask

Wheeler
Long (not now I guess)
Morris
Prince
and a few more


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Bast000 on September 07, 2006, 10:56:58 PM
I'm 5' 8" 222lbs @10%bf.  I don't qualify though because of my cycle in 94'.  Dropped everything and more, started back in 2002 at 150lbs.  gained everything naturally since 94'.
Low bodyfat, I'd be @ 210lbs?



From the pics I've seen you're body fat looks higher than 10%.  Impressive physique but I don't know about that body fat.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: myseone on September 07, 2006, 10:58:27 PM
Good diet. You need more Wendys though. Change the Sorbet for Ben and Jerrys. Add Oreos.

I hear you,
I've graduated to Hagan Daz rum and raisin, works like a charm.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 10:58:41 PM

From the pics I've seen you're body fat looks higher than 10%.  Impressive physique but I don't know about that body fat.

Jim Quinn anyone?


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Croatch on September 07, 2006, 11:00:02 PM
Quote
From the pics I've seen you're body fat looks higher than 10%.  Impressive physique but I don't know about that body fat.
You're right, it's probably right @23% now that I think about it.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 11:00:19 PM
I hear you,
I've graduated to Hagan Daz rum and raisin, works like a charm.

Anyone else find it interesting that all the top people are eating The Adonis way?


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Bast000 on September 07, 2006, 11:00:48 PM
I hear you,
I've graduated to Hagan Daz rum and raisin, works like a charm.

You're a smart guy for not being a sheep about nutrition like so many.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: sean on September 07, 2006, 11:01:46 PM
this one counts. ronnie didnt likely didnt touch anything until a couple years into his career.



Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Bast000 on September 07, 2006, 11:02:12 PM
You're right, it's probably right @23% now that I think about it.

what does your waist measure?   any pictures of your stomach?   


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: sean on September 07, 2006, 11:03:01 PM
what does your waist measure?   any pictures of your stomach?   

I knew you were gay.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 11:04:18 PM
this one counts. ronnie didnt likely didnt touch anything until a couple years into his career.



 ::)


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Bast000 on September 07, 2006, 11:04:42 PM
I knew you were gay.

are you saying you have fetish for men's stomachs 'sean'?


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: rkw1969 on September 07, 2006, 11:05:45 PM
man i wish i could diet down to prove to you adonis they are out there. Im 37 years old, 5"11" weigh about 260 and would come in around 230 in single digit bf. never done any drugs in my life. But alas Im lazy.  ;D


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: myseone on September 07, 2006, 11:05:54 PM
I had no idea that you were once a steroid user MYSEONE.
That does explain alot about some of your lifts.

Perhaps you performed them when "On"

Yeah I mentioned this earlier, last year. Concerning the strength I'm always strong, and have always been strong, and have lifted all the weights I posted clean. With the drugs I was a lot stronger, but I did'nt want to get ill and sick from D-bol or sus, so i stopped.

I actually tore my quad tendon lunging with a barbell, 500lbs, no juice. The weight did'nt feel heavy, but with that weight the bar bounces, and I lost control, not wisely I did it outside of a cage, I usually did them in a cage. I had regularly done this weight and more, and got cocky, so i payed.

Nowadays I train a bit lighter, with a slower rep speed and less cheating so to speak, bit I still get the drive to train as heavy as i was before, maybe i'll build up safely, I'll see.



Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: sean on September 07, 2006, 11:06:58 PM
::)

yahnnn... your argument has quickly imploded.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 11:07:39 PM
man i wish i could diet down to prove to you adonis they are out there. Im 37 years old, 5"11" weigh about 260 and would come in around 230 in single digit bf. never done any drugs in my life. But alas Im lazy.  ;D

ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Ok.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Bast000 on September 07, 2006, 11:08:02 PM
man i wish i could diet down to prove to you adonis they are out there. Im 37 years old, 5"11" weigh about 260 and would come in around 230 in single digit bf.

sure you would  ::)

you are probably 35% body fat.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: sean on September 07, 2006, 11:08:54 PM
ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Ok.

another monster post of braniac porportions.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: rkw1969 on September 07, 2006, 11:09:33 PM
probably more


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 11:10:02 PM
man i wish i could diet down to prove to you adonis they are out there. Im 37 years old, 5"11" weigh about 260 and would come in around 230 in single digit bf. never done any drugs in my life. But alas Im lazy.  ;D

Post a picture right now.
Me and all the other wonderful people on here are a good judge at bodyfat.

Post a current picture and we will tell you.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: sean on September 07, 2006, 11:10:23 PM
Yeah I mentioned this earlier, last year. Concerning the strength I'm always strong, and have always been strong, and have lifted all the weights I posted clean. With the drugs I was a lot stronger, but I did'nt want to get ill and sick from D-bol or sus, so i stopped.

I actually tore my quad tendon lunging with a barbell, 500lbs, no juice. The weight did'nt feel heavy, but with that weight the bar bounces, and I lost control, not wisely I did it outside of a cage, I usually did them in a cage. I had regularly done this weight and more, and got cocky, so i payed.

Nowadays I train a bit lighter, with a slower rep speed and less cheating so to speak, bit I still get the drive to train as heavy as i was before, maybe i'll build up safely, I'll see.



Myseone, Please focus on the task at hand of disproving Adonis' careless post. Moreso mindless than careless.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: myseone on September 07, 2006, 11:11:54 PM
You're a smart guy for not being a sheep about nutrition like so many.

Most of the stuff in Muscle and Fiction is nonsense and hyperbole, thats for sure.

It's a catch 22 because it's extremely hard to write a magazine year after year and tell the truth, I imagine. There is not much to this thing called bodybuilding. Not more than train progreessively on basics, eat well, rest and be patient, all basically summed up in a book like "Brawn".

Can you imagine what Flex, Musclemag, MD, or Muscle and Fiction would look like if they told the "real truth"
a skinny mag indeed, but better natural builds around the world.



Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Croatch on September 07, 2006, 11:13:47 PM
Quote
what does your waist measure?   any pictures of your stomach?  
(http://myspace-289.vo.llnwd.net/00053/98/24/53204289_l.jpg)
I was 200lbs here, 33" waist.  Now it's about 35", I'm hoping to get it to 40", so I can compete in next years Olympia.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: rkw1969 on September 07, 2006, 11:14:33 PM
I would post a pic but know i would be tore apart the instant i posted it. i know how you guys are even when you guys are wrong.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 11:15:51 PM
I would post a pic but know i would be tore apart the instant i posted it. i know how you guys are even when you guys are wrong.

Post it up.

We will tear apart your claims. That is about it.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Croatch on September 07, 2006, 11:16:10 PM
Quote
I would post a pic but know i would be tore apart the instant i posted it. i know how you guys are even when you guys are wrong.
Yeah, don't post one.  Your feeling may get hurt by internet trolls.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: sean on September 07, 2006, 11:16:55 PM
I would post a pic but know i would be tore apart the instant i posted it. i know how you guys are even when you guys are wrong.

Dont sweat it dude. Adonis, Matt C, and Bast000 have nothing to validify their arguments.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Bast000 on September 07, 2006, 11:17:19 PM
(http://myspace-289.vo.llnwd.net/00053/98/24/53204289_l.jpg)
I was 200lbs here, 33" waist.  Now it's about 35", I'm hoping to get it to 40", so I can compete in next years Olympia.

yea very lean there at 200, how long ago was that?


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: myseone on September 07, 2006, 11:17:29 PM
Myseone, Please focus on the task at hand of disproving Adonis' careless post. Moreso mindless than careless.


Okay back to the business at hand,

Addonis, it is possible for some men to build physiques up and beyond level (probably not much above I agree) drug free. Rare but possible.

I would also say that most people that have the genetics to realize this probably won't, but it does'nt mean that they can't. Most people eat wrong for gaining muscle and staying lean, train wrong, and don't rest.



Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: rkw1969 on September 07, 2006, 11:17:35 PM
ya i would be owned by a kid haha


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: myseone on September 07, 2006, 11:18:39 PM
(http://myspace-289.vo.llnwd.net/00053/98/24/53204289_l.jpg)
I was 200lbs here, 33" waist.  Now it's about 35", I'm hoping to get it to 40", so I can compete in next years Olympia.
]


Awesome build Croatch, great work.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: The True Adonis on September 07, 2006, 11:19:25 PM

Okay back to the business at hand,

Addonis, it is possible for some men to build physiques up and beyond level (probably not much above I agree) drug free. Rare but possible.

I would also say that most people that have the genetics to realize this probably won't, but it does'nt mean that they can't. Most people eat wrong for gaining muscle and staying lean, train wrong, and don't rest.



No such thing as eating wrong.
Also, I like you Myseone, but you have yet to SHOW me anyone.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: sean on September 07, 2006, 11:20:11 PM
Post it up.

We will tear apart your claims. That is about it.

Adonis, you are nothing more than an expert in noth having hung yourself yet all the while being an unemployed, homosexual, narcisistic, egomaniact.  The shame must haunt you.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Bast000 on September 07, 2006, 11:20:54 PM
Croatch I don't know about you being only 5'8" though.  your stomach looks small, 33" isn't small at all.  So you either have a huge bone structure or you're taller.

I'm 5' 6"-7" and my stomach is 28" now.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Bast000 on September 07, 2006, 11:21:45 PM
Adonis, you are nothing more than an expert in noth having hung yourself yet all the while being an unemployed, homosexual, narcisistic, egomaniact.  The shame must haunt you.

You have nothing intelligent to say.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: IFBBwannaB on September 07, 2006, 11:23:14 PM
(http://myspace-289.vo.llnwd.net/00053/98/24/53204289_l.jpg)
I was 200lbs here, 33" waist.  Now it's about 35", I'm hoping to get it to 40", so I can compete in next years Olympia.

33" seems bigger for being that lean,and you dont seem to have a big structure.
How did you measure it? Around what point ?


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: rocket on September 07, 2006, 11:26:11 PM
I don't get why people are calling him a crackpot.  I think what he is saying probably is true.  There may be exceptional cases but they will be few and far. 

It should be easy to disprove him by finding individuals who meet the criteria.. thats the way to discredit him.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: sean on September 07, 2006, 11:26:44 PM
ooooo, the speculation of Croatch' waist circumference! I'm gonna stay up all night waiting for the results ::)
Looks like he's gonna have to post another measurement video as he did with his biceps.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: myseone on September 07, 2006, 11:27:20 PM
No such thing as eating wrong.
Also, I like you Myseone, but you have yet to SHOW me anyone.


I'm honored,
Okay, but this is inapropriate eating. Most of the high protein nonsense is just dribble from the mags trying to get young and impressionable men to empty their wallets on protien supplements. No one who weighs 150-180 lbs at the end of the day needs protein supplements and gakic.What they need is lots of good wholesome food, primarily carbs to gain.

As I mentioned I currently train a guy who is in the upper single digits at around 6'2", 225lbs weight. Not 5'11" though, but if you adjust for ht to weight ratio he's doing well. I'm not sure if he would let me take his picks and post them here though, so he might as well not exist.

I'll have to start training my little bro and get back to you in 10 years or so.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: sean on September 07, 2006, 11:27:55 PM
I don't get why people are calling him a crackpot.  I think what he is saying probably is true.  There may be exceptional cases but they will be few and far. 

It should be easy to disprove him by finding individuals who meet the criteria.. thats the way to discredit him.

I already did. this 5'11" thing is tardism at its finnest.

at his suggestion for retreivable findings, his request of 5'11" and 205lbs works out to be 2.88lbs/inch. that shouldnt be too hard to find.

For Nick, thats 3.125 lbs/inch .... exceeding his request. theres more to be found. Im just not going to google nat. BBing sites all night.
http://www.bodybuilders.com/nrogers.htm


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: rocket on September 07, 2006, 11:38:02 PM
I already did. this 5'11" thing is tardism at its finnest.

at his suggestion for retreivable findings, his request of 5'11" and 205lbs works out to be 2.88lbs/inch. that shouldnt be too hard to find.

For Nick, thats 3.125 lbs/inch .... exceeding his request. theres more to be found. Im just not going to google nat. BBing sites all night.
http://www.bodybuilders.com/nrogers.htm

He posted a theory and you've then made extraneous assumptions. (Scaling)

Not to mention the fact that there is no guarantee he is lifetime natural or really at that weight.

And yes, difficult to prove.. best way to do so is to confirm with multiple examples.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: sean on September 07, 2006, 11:42:43 PM
I know personal knowledge isnt good enough for the getbig brain giants, but I've been around the guy for over three years, worked out with him, and personally suggested lots of things for him supplement wise and nutrition wise during that time. I'm 100% sure he's natural. I've also seen him weigh in... oh wait, even with pics of Dorian on the scale at 250 was widely disputed amoungst the brilliancy here. ok, the gig is up. i forfeit my argument.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: sarcasm on September 08, 2006, 04:11:55 PM
gotta agree with Adonis on this one, shit find me ONE OR TWO totally natural trainees that are 205 plus at 5'11" in the single digit bodyfat and you're doing something, it just doesn't happen.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Joey Tito on September 08, 2006, 04:33:52 PM
Ok. Show me 5 Lifetime Naturals that meet this criteria?

Show me one.
Can you?

The burden of proof is on you, since you made the challenge and the initial assertion.  The ball is in YOUR court to prove yourself, not in anyone else's.  That's Logic 101.  Your brain is as small as your forearm.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: doison on September 08, 2006, 05:22:44 PM
I agree with Adonis. 

This is so perfect.  By making myself believe it's not possible, I don't have to feel bad about being less that others. 

This should be a friggin class in college.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: candidate2025 on September 08, 2006, 07:08:25 PM
I just would like to re-iterate this to beginners so they don`t go setting unrealistic goals for themselves.

This applies to Lifetime Naturals:

The natural human will not make huge gains year after year.  It is a Scientific impossibility. Gains will be made, but minimal.  This is for everyone. There are ZERO naturals walking around at 5`11 or less, 220 lbs ripped.

NONE. The cutoff for a Lifetime Natural is around 200lbs or so. Give or take a few Pounds.

I challenge ANYONE to find me 5 LIFETIME NATURALS 5`11 and under, over 205 lbs ripped.



Be aware of this.

sounds like someones mad that they cant break the 200 lb mark... ::) hahahahahahahahahahah    jesus you are such a fuckin pussy, bitch. haha


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Bast000 on September 08, 2006, 07:45:50 PM
sounds like someones mad that they cant break the 200 lb mark... ::) hahahahahahahahahahah    jesus you are such a fuckin pussy, bitch. haha

uhh he used to weigh 248lbs.   ::)  then he dieted down.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: brianX on September 09, 2006, 01:32:37 AM
uhh he used to weigh 248lbs.   ::)  then he dieted down.

This dickhead keeps calling everyone "fat," even though he had to lose 70 lb just to be at 10% bodyfat? Monster hypocrisy.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Bast000 on September 09, 2006, 01:35:52 AM
This dickhead keeps calling everyone "fat," even though he had to lose 70 lb just to be at 10% bodyfat? Monster hypocrisy.

he acknowledges that he was fat though and that his diet was wrong.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: brianX on September 09, 2006, 01:35:52 AM
gotta agree with Adonis on this one, shit find me ONE OR TWO totally natural trainees that are 205 plus at 5'11" in the single digit bodyfat and you're doing something, it just doesn't happen.

So you admit that you wouldn't weigh over 200 lb in contest shape? Since you're a natural and you weigh 230, this must mean that you have at least 30 lb of solid fat on your frame. Monster self-owning.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: Bast000 on September 09, 2006, 01:37:48 AM
So you admit that you wouldn't weigh over 200 lb in contest shape? Since you're a natural and you weigh 230, this must mean that you have at least 30 lb of solid fat on your frame. Monster self-owning.

so what?  30lbs is only 13% of 230lbs.

Someone can be pretty lean and need to lose 30lbs or more easy.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: sarcasm on September 09, 2006, 07:32:00 AM
So you admit that you wouldn't weigh over 200 lb in contest shape? Since you're a natural and you weigh 230, this must mean that you have at least 30 lb of solid fat on your frame. Monster self-owning.
i will admit honestly that i probably have a little more fat than that, i would estimate that i'm 15 percent BF , so i probably have around 35lbs. of fat, not great but not terrible compared to the general public, and yes, i would be well under 200 in "contest" condition without drugs, i'm not kidding myself.


Title: Re: More INFO for Beginners.
Post by: yangmian on September 09, 2006, 10:18:36 PM
This dickhead keeps calling everyone "fat," even though he had to lose 70 lb just to be at 10% bodyfat? Monster hypocrisy.
thats true he rips into every other natural for looking like shit when they bulk went he done exactly the same thing.he also accuses all these other guys of thinking that the fat they are gaining is muscle yet he claimed that he has lost 60 odd pounds so i think he has just come to that realisation himself so he shoulded be so hard on these other guys for making the same mistakes that he did