That doesn't look like a pro physique to me. Come to think of it I think he trains at my local gym.

EDIT: My bad I thought he was doing the Ironman LOL.

U mean the crab shot...

Yeah true and thats 1 out of how many?

Mars is that picture of you? LOL

You've seen those then?

Okay seems to be quite topical. I'd be interested to know what you think was the worst and what you would've changed.

Obviously any issues anybody has with this year..... We have plenty of threads elsewhere.

Thats not what I mean.... Even if you shrunk Jay down to the same height he's still bigger than Dexter.

This is crystal ball territory. Who knows what the top competitors will look like in "years".

I disagree. The smart money is on Victor for next year.

He made them look short not small.

Wolfes Ribcage looks far too small in this pose it lets him down big time? And why is he always shrugging his shoulders?

His quads look exceptional but the lat spread it's hard to judge because it isn't the same pose the others are doing he's pronating and slightly elevating his scaps etc. If you look closely his chest is more caved in than puffed out, he looks wider this way but overall I don't think it's for the better.

I also think he's not inflated his ribs which from the front makes your ribs appear smaller but your lats look bigger.

Victors gone to the other extreme and you can hardly see his lats it just looks like he has a giant beachball for a rib box.

Is this picture a single comparison or did you photoshop it? Jay looks smaller than I remember compared to Vic at least.

Wolf beats anybody in this pose from the waist up but he didn't deserve to win

NO WAY PEDRO!

And the "poor lines" are probably the lat/chrismas tree split. On Saterday there wasn't one at all it looked like one continuous muscle. The "poor structure" is IMO a reference to Wolfes telescopic waist which can be seen in practically every pose except this one.

No wonder he holds onto water a little bit he's wearing 10 coats of Jan Tana. His skin looks like antique leather upholstry.

Dexter was tiny next to Cutler now your just discrediting the whole debate.

It's not worth discussing. Because there is always going to be GREATER demand to see the bigger guys at BB shows everywhere except your little fantasy land. Which is why if the IFBB turned it's nose up at outrageous physiques all that would happen is that NABBA or another federation would fill the vacuum.

I don't think the pro's are really "safe" but their risk is no greater than alot of steroid "junkies" who never get close to their level of developement. You see not all steroid users are "real men".

In fact the vast majority seem to be a load of pathetic looking pantywaists who 6 years later are still waiting for the test to really start kicking in. Just take a look around the forum if you don't believe me...

What do all Olympias as far back as Lee Haney not have that Wolf Dexter and Martinez do have? Thats right "Go-go gadget waist".
(no disrespect meant just wanted to say that) There is clearly a leaning towards a muscular physique with muscle crammed onto the frame, it cannot be crammed onto the frame if there is whasted space with no showwy muscles. High lats actually whaste space on the torso and there's no plus point to it. Even short biceps result in better looking peaks but high lats? Theres nothing good about thatand Cutlers lats are lower and more fully developed at the base.


It might not be right or fair but this is the criteria for a long time now. It's probably the most important thing if history tells us anything. Why are you suprised?

High calves are the 2nd kiss of death.

YES!!!!

But it was, should've been, close until the posedown.

All these things people say about Jay are pretty abstract. He's a picasso, he's stir fried shit, he's this he's that. What? You're just sticking always to abstract, subjective statements, how can anybody take that seriously in deciding a winner?

What are you saying does Jay have weak calves or do they lack definition? Are Victors Forearms or lats better? Is Victor wider and more impressive? Or is it just afew creases in Jays lower back that you think the entire competition should be decided on?

Yep true. Victor lost out in the pose down and if he ever had a chance he lost it then for sure. The posedown was dominated by the old guard and new guys weren't ever really in it.

Okay. Whats the secret to this advanced level of oil spotting. You've gone beyond my oil spotting capabilities?

It kind of makes sense to me as an adaptive change to exercise, big rear delts and a big upper back and the shapes look more angular than round.

Not like these guys with huge delts but no upward scapulae rotators eg Toney Freeman , cos in that case how can you even train the side delts to that size with nothing relatively well developed to brace against? Surely that's gonna be like Bench pressing on one of those floating recliners some people have in their pool.

But clearly I just haven't seen as much oil as you have up close, if any. So how do you recognise the signs?

The thing with cutler is his lats start right where his gluets finish. certain others have a big or huge gap and it's a glaring gap no matter what way you slice it. Traditionally in the last 20 years this is very important it cannot be overestimated (Ronnie got away with a tiny gap Jay has hardly any). He also just has bigger lats and doesn't rely on spreading his shoulder blades and the teres major pushing through from underneath as much as Victor and others.

In short the way the judges do things now Franco Columbo is the shape of back you should seek to emulate not Michael Francois. I hope this helps.

Plus Victors calves are also really high. And for some reason his quad sweep looks alot worse than Jays from the front.

Don't get me wrong they're all great, and Fracois has a good back also thats why I used him as an example. Good low lats are a plus point which have been in fashion with the judges for ages now. And they look great IMO when they're there. Jay has the best therefore it's easy to make a case for him to win, starting with that.

Therefore I can't complain. Don't see how you can. The case for Victor is what just that Jay has afew creases in his lower back.

Boo hoo. His errector spinae also dwarf Victors by the way.

And even then I'm giving the benefit of the doubt that the camera lense has warped Victor thinner in alot of shots. If thats not so you can add.

Because Jay just plain dwarfs him.

Until you know the difference between water and fat you should just leave it to the judges.

Dorian never did anything to market the sport during his reign, and his physique was hardly appealling in the mainstream at the time. He still won!

Jay was still the best so who cares.

Now thats what I call "posting"

See what I did there?